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Fellowship Of Friends/Fourth Way School/Living Presence Discussion – Page 178 July 23, 2019

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.

Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Living Presence Discussion.

Here, you can share your thoughts, your stories, your own experiences as a former member of the FOF.  If you are considering becoming a member, you are invited to read the discussion to better know the organization you are considering joining; we welcome your questions. Participants in the discussion may post under their own name, or anonymously.

The first comment of all new participants will be moderated before they can start communicating in real-time.  You will need to register with a valid email address and be able to reply to the welcome/verification email you will receive. If you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear within a day after it has been submitted; any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, such as personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion anonymously will prompt a warning. Continued abuse will result in your removal from the discussion.

To visit the official site of The  Fellowship Of Friends;



1. Artemis44 - July 23, 2019

From the last page, it was approved after the new page was created.

99. Ocean Tiger – July 23, 2019

Please enjoy these 47 previously unreleased photos of Robert Burton and his associates:


2. Insider - July 23, 2019

1. Artemis44

I don’t understand the reason for your post. What are you trying to point out, and why?

3. Insider - July 23, 2019

Nevermind. I get it. Making sure people on the new page are aware of these photos.

4. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg - July 23, 2019

99, Ocean Tiger, why 47 pictures of a cute, unsuspecting dog in the company of a monster?

You’re aware that people use this as a marketing ploy to divert attention away from an otherwise ugly unappealing subject?

You’re aware that Burton uses his dog to, “change people’s “I”‘s” and make them more easily manipulated?

Would you like people to use these rather than the photogenically accurate ones of a corrupt, decaying degenerate?

I think you’re a Fellowship shill. What do you have to say for yourself?

5. Artemis44 - July 23, 2019

3. Insider

Yes, that was my intention. I didn’t want people to miss the gallery of horrors.

6. Artemis44 - July 23, 2019

4. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg

I had the same feeling when I saw the post and the pictures: FOF PR.

7. Artemis44 - July 23, 2019

This is the source of the pictures:


Ocean Tiger selected only the pictures that had REB in them.

8. brucelevy - July 23, 2019

They say cavaliers can learn to lick one’s ass in under ten minutes. I never saw RB look at a person like he looks at that dog. And the dog can’t talk about it to anybody.

9. WhaleRider - July 24, 2019

Looks like burton has finally verified d-influence.

10. John Harmer - July 24, 2019

Which of these two looks like they have the deeper emotional life?

View this post on Instagram

Watching Sarasota sunset with Robert🐶

A post shared by Apollo (@apollo_cavalier) on

11. warpage - July 24, 2019

10. John Harmer

The eyes have it, plain to see. The King Charles Cavalier Spaniel gazes warmly at the environment…the steely, nothing-behind-them spheres in the head of Robert Earl Burton show psychopathy and a taste for vampirical sex.

12. Rich - July 24, 2019

Some of the expanded photos have views of horrible ceiling ‘art’

13. Ocean Tiger - July 24, 2019

Please be aware that I posted 9 hours of whistle-blowing of what is called on YouTube “Exposing Robert Burton and The Fellowship of Friends.” You’re chatting with someone who experienced firsthand and from others while living in Apollo/The Galleria the mind-control programming of using pets as a method for grooming and submission, including dogs and other animals. No I am not public relations, and yes I have a 300 page book being published in August with content never before posted anywhere.

14. warpage - July 24, 2019

Pleased to meet you. Kindly do some damage with the blessings of most of us on the blog.

15. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

Welcome Eric/Age of Gaia. I enjoyed your audio recordings on YouTube.

16. Insider - July 24, 2019

4. diegorivera… & 6. Artemis44

You both totally missed the point of Ocean Tiger posting those photos, labeling them Fellowship PR. Pretty dense, you two.

Curiously, if there’s any Fellowship PR going on here, it’s coming from Artemis44 and her husband, Cult Survivor. No one has presented Robert Burton and the Fellowship in a kinder and gentler tone than those two. It was a totally wonderful experience, all the plays, wine, and sex partners. No real problems or issues at all. I wonder why they ever left (or did they?).

17. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

16. Insider

I evealed that there is a warrant for REB’s arrest in Europe and Cult Survivor re-created the FOF Wikipedia article with a ‘Criticism’ section and exposed Asaf’s BePeriod group in detail. If that is FOF PR then I need to check the definition of PR in the dictionary.

18. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

By the way we had dinner with Ames and Nancy Gilbert in Grass Valley not long ago and talked about our experiences when we were in the FOF and the damage they produced. That’s why Ames was defending Cult Survivor here after he was hammered and left.

19. warpage - July 24, 2019

Not really intent on lambasting anyone, but have ‘gone through’ the videos of Eric/Gaia and found Video 4 a real stunner as far as I had never really understood Burton and his motives.

Eric says, and I think this is verbatim -: “If you traumatize a person, it is easier to mind-control them.”

This answers a plethora of questions about people describing how they acted.

I look forward to the 300-page book.

20. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

19. warpage

‘Eric says, and I think this is verbatim -: “If you traumatize a person, it is easier to mind-control them.”

That’s right, Eric calls it “trauma-based mind-control”. I did an online search on the topic and found this:

‘Once the victim is systematically traumatized through various methods, which may include ritual abuse, programming is anchored in to each individual trauma. These dissociated traumas are linked to hypnotic programming commands and scripts. Then the traumatic memories linked in with the programming are walled off with amnesia from the host personality. The traumatized “split” is also known as the newly created alter personality. Alter personalities are created according to the Programmers needs, while the host personality is unaware of the traumatic memories and alters who hold the memories. The alter personality can be called up to the front of the mind via codes or specific cues that the programmer knows, and be trained to do a variety of functions.’

21. WhaleRider - July 24, 2019

Split alter personality=“higher self” (aka “true personality”)

22. warpage - July 24, 2019

21 WhaleRider

As with all things psychological, ‘getting a flavor’ OF WHAT THE WORDS ARE ACTUALLY DESCRIBING is healthy for you and those with whom one is interracting.

23. WhaleRider - July 24, 2019

I think I have been very clear in my analysis and very explicit in the details of how the FOF affected me over the course of 10 years on the blog.

I’d say for me the traumatizing indoctrination began with the first “photograph”…after the love-bombing subsided, of course.

IMO, the main aim accomplished by the splitting that occurs in FOF cult indoctrination, i.e. “higher self vs lower self” or “true personality vs false personality”, along with the “non-expression of negative emotions” which effectively silences any dissent is compliance.

Maybe you’d like to share your story?

How did it feel to be at war with yourself, to constantly be on guard and vigilant about your mannerisms, thoughts, feelings, and language style?

What compromises did you make to stay for as long as you did, assuming you were a FOF member?

Ocean Tiger:
I look forward to reading your book, or even a draft. Feel free to contact me privately through the blog moderator if you would like any advice or feedback. His email is: nogurus@yahoo

I’ll watch your YouTube clips when I have time.

24. warpage - July 24, 2019

23. WhaleRider

To be honest, my story was completely different from yours, although the word ‘split’ adequately describes my attitude to myself. I was not sequestered away in Apollo, offered ‘tasks’ to traumatize me ‘to the core’ (read Real or Inner Self – Higher or Lower means nothing to me in the BurtoDicktionary). Being very young when joining, I had to learn what life was about as well as fulfilling FOF obligations. Eventually, I could do neither suitably well and hence – The Split in Major Form.

25. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

22. warpage
23. WhaleRider

Looks like we all here have/had something in common: a split personality due to cult programming (higher/lower self). What’s different in my opinion is if it that split personality was trauma-based, like in the case of brucelevy, Whalerider and Ocean Tiger (all part of REB’s entourage at some point), or is just psychological cult programming like in my case, Cult Survivor’s, warepage’s and Ames’.

The obvious conclusion is that the difference is if the person was sexually abused by REB or not. A common phenomenon I’ve seen is for people that were sexually abused to tell the one’s that weren’t that they are pro-FOF and for the ones that were not abused to tell the one’s that were that they are too negative.

IMO the antidote to that trap is to put oneself in the shoes of the other person, but that would require compassion and separation from our own traumas or lack of them.

26. brucelevy - July 24, 2019

25. Artemis44

If I were you I would avoid speaking for other people.

27. Associated Press - July 24, 2019
28. warpage - July 24, 2019

25, Artemis44

If I understand you correctly, we are all ‘in the process of…’

For myself, despite, now, a solid foothold in life, I will permanently be ‘in recovery’…always striving for Self Understanding…Self Reliance…Self Empowerment…and, hopefully encouraging that in others around me.

29. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

26. brucelevy

It’s good you are not me, diversity is beautiful.

28. warpage


30. brucelevy - July 24, 2019

29. Artemis44

Diversity has absolutely fucking nothing to do with my point. Speak for yourself, not others.

31. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

30. brucelevy

I was no trying to speak for you (or others), I am sorry if I gave that impression. I also apologize for my short answer to you, I should have been more explicit.

Let me try again. I tried to convey a perception that I have about the difference between the posts of the bloggers that have been abused by REB and the ones that haven’t. Note that it’s only a perception, so it’s open to debate.

I noticed that people that have been sexually abused by REB tend to be more emphatic in their posts (I’m intentionally avoiding the term ‘negative’ because evokes judgement). I also noticed that they tend to stay much longer in the blog , and that makes sense considering the depth of the trauma. Sexual abuse, specially when the victim is a young heterosexual male and the perpetrator is an older male in a position of power, can create deep wounds as the case of the Catholic priests demonstrates.

I think we should focus on what we have in common (we have been members of a destructive cult and that created some type of trauma) and set aside our differences (the depth of the trauma). Few things unite people more than having a common enemy.

32. WhaleRider - July 24, 2019

Thanks for being here. Please give my regards to your husband.

Just for clarity sake, the concept of psychological “splitting’ differs from that of having a “split personality”, the latter usually referring to schizophrenia in layman’s terms.

“Splitting is the failure in a person’s thinking to bring together the dichotomy of both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole.”

FOF and fourth way cult indoctrination seeks to ‘split’ a person’s psyche into “good and bad” parts (higher vs lower self) to pit a person against themself (divide and conquer) so that they become vulnerable to the domination of those posing as authority figures, particularly the cult leader.

BTW, there are plenty of other ways besides sexual assault that both male and female followers have been victims of burton’s traumatizing narcissism and emotional abuse. Being asked to have an abortion, separate from family members, relocate, or to end a loving relationship are historical examples of trauma that come to mind.

People can also become traumatized by systematic emotional abuse in the form of ‘gaslighting’ without it ever coming to blows (pun intended).

I’m glad you made it out when you did. Hopefully you left with your sense of humor intact as well.

BTW, posting in all caps other than abbreviations comes across as YELLING. Is that the flavor you intended in your post to me?

33. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

32. WhaleRider

‘BTW, there are plenty of other ways besides sexual assault that both male and female followers have been victims of burton’s traumatizing narcissism and emotional abuse. Being asked to have an abortion, separate from family members, relocate, or to end a loving relationship are historical examples of trauma that come to mind.’

I wasn’t aware that that happened in the FOF in the past, thank you from pointing that out. I was a member from 2006 to 2017 and I didn’t see any of that (and nobody in the FOF mentioned to me that that happened before I joined, of course!). I wasn’t even aware that this blog existed by the way.

I can see now that we have very different stories and experiences, but that doesn’t diminish the damage inflicted by the FOF before I joined. That being said, the wounds from an abortion, a separation from family members, a relocation, or the end of a loving relationship, even if deep, in my opinion are not as traumatic as those of a young heterosexual male being forced to have sex with an older male in a position of power. At any rate, that’s a technical detail: the FOF is a destructive cult and everybody that is or was part of it (and in some cases family members and spouses that were not members) has some type of wound.

34. Artemis44 - July 24, 2019

32. WhaleRider

‘Just for clarity sake, the concept of psychological “splitting’ differs from that of having a “split personality”, the latter usually referring to schizophrenia in layman’s terms.’

Thank you for the clarification. I meant ‘splitting’, not ‘split personality’ of course.

35. warpage - July 24, 2019

32. WhaleRider

Yes…I suppose being emphatic is a literary form of yelling. Had I the technique at hand to alter text, I would do that…and, in that post, the point was made, I feel.

I have learned not to ‘back down’; or ‘dilute’ when things need to be said.

36. warpage - July 24, 2019

35. to continue

WR, you deserve an explanation…

Terminology, esopecially when related to the FOF, may mean different things to different people, precisely because ‘chosen words’ have a ‘slant’ or ‘bite’ to them. In my work, much of which involves essay and papers writing, verging toward the poetic encoiurages the reader to ‘think like the exercise is some kind of workout’.

Would most here agree toward the fact that language, used to convey and communicate, is, today, much in decline?

37. WhaleRider - July 24, 2019

Thank you for your explanation; I appreciate it.

If I’m not mistaken, sounds to me like you have brought your life back into balance post FOF. Congratulations!

BTW, I enjoyed learning the word “acedia”, and reading the link provided by ton2u in response to your post on the prior page.

Over the years I have found in myself and others that more damage is done avoiding feelings than by simply having them and moving on. Part of that process, as you well may know, involves being able to identify and articulate elusive or complex feelings with language…and sometimes art, rather than keep them bottled up.

I’m also quite relieved to hear your “students”, as you mentioned, are of the academic variety.

I agree with you about semantics, particularly as it relates to deconstructing FOF cult indoctrination and demystifying ‘FOF cult speak’ in an effort to help others update their knowledge base and/or drain the victim pool. I am happy to elaborate my POV in detail when asked or when my opinions are respectfully challenged.

After 10 years on the blog, you can tell that I, too, like other regular posters, refuse to back down when something needs to be said, just like our friend Bruce, although at times I employ, as you say “off the wall” satire, which, IMO, is a time tested means of “raising consciousness” and speaking truth to power.

38. warpage - July 24, 2019


Gotcha dude…flying parallel, Iceman, as the movie gies.

39. Artemis44 - July 25, 2019

A friend of mine that was also a FOF member and left 10 years ago told me that the book ‘The Wrong Way Home: Uncovering the Patterns of Cult Behavior in American Society’ by Arthur J. Deikman was very useful for him to understand why he joined the FOF.

This is the Amazon link:


This is from the book’s commentary on Amazon:

‘The author, a psychiatrist, argues that cult behavior is not limited to members of religious groups but is based on childhood desires for meaning and dependency that we all share. Although we live in a democracy, cult behavior manifests itself in our unwillingness to question the judgment of our leaders, our tendency to devalue outsiders and to avoid dissent. We can overcome cult behavior, he says, by recognizing that we have dependency needs that are inappropriate for mature people, by increasing anti-authoritarian education, and by encouraging personal autonomy and the free exchange of ideas.’

Has anybody read that book? Any comments?

40. Joey Virgo - July 25, 2019

Sargan of Akkad reviewed Deikman’s book for 35 minutes in 2016 on YouTube. Most of the views discussed in the review have already been discussed here at the FoF discussion blog. Sargan’s review contains many excerpts from Deikman’s book and at 20:05 or so, Deikman’s description of the cult matches thoroughly with the FoF. A cult follower is not crazy, Deikman says, but he or she has a moral failing in self-reliance or in coping with dependency needs, i.e., immaturity.

I liked Deikman’s idea that the cult leader is as trapped as are the cult followers — to submit to a certain unchanging standard of behavior in order to sustain the fantasy world they both have created.

41. Bryan Reynolds - July 25, 2019

I first found out about Arthur Deikman from a book titled “The World of The Sufi” Which is a collection of essays about Sufiism edited by Idries Shah. Dr. Diekman’s contribution was an article which outlined how modern Psychiatry by focusing on mental illness does not really have a answers to questions “What is the function of a healthy person?” or what is the sense and purpose of existence?

42. Artemis44 - July 25, 2019

40. Joey Virgo

That’s a great review, thanks. I’ll get the book.

41. Bryan Reynolds

‘Dr. Diekman’s contribution was an article which outlined how modern Psychiatry by focusing on mental illness does not really have a answers to questions “What is the function of a healthy person?” or what is the sense and purpose of existence?”

That’s a powerful insight. Realistically speaking, psychiatrists make money treating and prescribing pills to people that are “mental ill” so those fundamental questions are irrelevant.

43. Cult Survivor - July 26, 2019

Hello all, I’m back. I replaced the picture of Burton on the FoF article on Wikipedia (that was from 2004) for a more recent one (from 2015) that was part of the set of 47 that Eric/Gaia uploaded to Dropbox. If you have a suggestion of a better one let me know.


44. I'll never tell - July 26, 2019

Banner reads (in Spanish):
“45 is a puppet”

45. ton2u - July 26, 2019

Joey V @ 40
Thanks for the video link… I paraphrase a few salient lines from the narrative below… brings me back to my difficulty in leaving the cult… regarding what’s been referred to in the past on the blog as the “invisible fence.” Can’t really blame the folks who stay on – they believe they have no choice but to:

Leaving a cult is extremely difficult because cults prey on the emotional instability and dependency of the individual. To an outsider it might seem there is nothing forcing an individual to stay in the cult, ostensibly they have freedom of movement and self-determination, but from the perspective of the person in the cult, the cult is all consuming. Everyone closest to them reinforces cult beliefs and compliance – withholding affection, companionship and support when the individual dissents/ diverts from the cult narrative. This puts an individual under tremendous duress – not only will they be unable to pursue their own ‘higher purpose’ through remaining in the group, they will lose their entire social support structure, and in many cases the individual is completely financially dependent on the cult. These pressures can be insurmountable and so people remain trapped in the cult even if they appear to be physically able to leave.

46. ton2u - July 26, 2019

INT @ 44

From just ‘across the pond’ a view of the misanthropic approach to solving the “refugee problem”:

47. Cult Survivor - July 26, 2019

44. I’ll never tell

“How Trump Ended Up Onstage With a Fake Presidential Seal”

48. Insider - July 26, 2019

47. Cult Survivor

This is why I call you a Fellowship shill and supporter. Anything to change the subject of Burton and the Fellowship, and thus water down this forum. You’ve done this dozens of times, although I appreciate the fact that you can’t see it. (Just like GW Goodwin, btw)

49. Cult Survivor - July 26, 2019

48. Insider

Really? “I’ll never tell” posted an image of a fake presidential seal without any explanation so I wanted people to understand the context.

Note that my previous message was about a change of the picture of Burton on the FOF article on Wikipedia that I re-created (with a “Criticism” section, by the way).

I don’t know what you have against me (Did I take your table at a dinner at the Galleria? Did I give you a harsh “photograph” when we were members?) but I’m not going to fall in the trap to engage. I’m just going to ignore your attacks.

50. Artemis44 - July 26, 2019

40. Joey Virgo & 45. ton2u

I’m finding Dr. Deikman’s writings fascinating — I’m looking forward to read his book “The Wrong Way Home”.

I found an article from him online called “Evaluating Spiritual and Utopian Groups” at

Click to access Monograph25.pdf

Here is an excerpt:

‘It is because the leader’s role is functional rather than magical that genuine spiritual teachers can be seen to obey implicit rules. Despite the general impression that great teachers indulge in any and all behavior, careful attention to traditional teaching stories and anecdotes reveals that there are certain principles that are never violated. For example, I can recall no anecdote depicting a teacher ordering one student to harm another or condoning such an action. Nor are there examples of students being encouraged to compete for the teacher’s attention. There are no examples of teachers entering into sexual relations with their students or enriching themselves with their money. All these examples have been common among current and past “spiritual” groups.

The reason why such examples are absent in authentic spiritual groups is that real teachers do not use their students to advance their own personal interests. In this matter the mystical literature is quite consistent and clear: a spiritual teacher does not have license to exploit students in any way or for any cause – the only legitimate basis for the teacher’s actions is the advancement of the student along the spiritual path. This is not to say that larger purposes may not be served at the same time; indeed, such synchronous activity is said to be the norm but it is never at the expense of the student’s development. The fact is, far from having unlimited license, a genuine spiritual teacher obeys functional requirements that far exceed the restraints most people are accustomed to impose on themselves in the name of religion or common decency. The behavior of many so-called spiritual leaders is a travesty of the authentic situation.’

IMO the term “travesty” for Burton seems very appropriate by the way.

51. warpage - July 26, 2019

40. Joey Virgo

I fully go along with this notion of a cult being an ‘organic machine’ in which all participants are trapped, whether they state they are following some kind of will or are ‘grinding their heart’ with acts of depravity, power or greed. Burton cannot help being Burton…if the opposite were the case, there would be no need for a cult, tithes, restraining tasks or a structure where idiots like Haven can ‘comment on the form of the graph’ – “What a pretty Bell End Curve!” – Math joke, by the way.

The fact that WR and others can look back (with distance) to the stupidity of it all (was it Marcel Duchamp or Leonardo who placed the ‘objet trouve’ urinal in an exhibit?) – it all seems that comical to me and I would wish those unnecessarily suffering to question their membership.

52. Artemis44 - July 26, 2019

48. Insider

On 25. I said ‘A common phenomenon I’ve seen [on this blog] is for people that were sexually abused [by REB] to tell the one’s that weren’t that they are pro-FOF and for the ones that were not abused to tell the one’s that were that they are too negative.’

Insider, were you sexually abused by REB? It’s fine if you don’t want to disclose.

53. warpage - July 26, 2019

Whilst WR mentioned my having students (actually not in an academic context), I am very aware of my training using two phrases…

“Teaching implies that learning must take place.”
“Critical analysis and reflective practice.”

You will understand that both phrases imply the advancement of the student through humble revitalizing of methods by the teacher. That seems to be the only way for me. I would damn well know when I am fooling myself…my best friends would tell me.

The form?
Developing simple life skills through practical projects and inter-student participation. No fancy name, by the way.

54. Associated Press - July 26, 2019

178/44: I’ll never tell:
‘Banner reads (in Spanish):
“45 is a puppet”’

I think what INT implies in that post is that Robert Earl Burton (REB), who is conscious being #45, is likewise: “45 is a puppet” and he is no better off than a marionette trapped in his own scheme by Influence C (and/or the fairy tale of his own creation). Please, correct me if i am wrong on that INT.

55. Cult Survivor - July 26, 2019

54. Associated Press

Makes sense now, thanks AP.

Gee, I missed that one — must be the early stages of Alzheimer’s 🙂

56. warpage - July 27, 2019

I believe it was fairly recently on the blog that someone commented about Burton’s belief in himself.

It now seems clear to me that those who question themselves and their motives – often prompted to do so by their peers – have a healthier outlook on their present engagements and plans for the future.

Would any of us here visualize Burton as a fruit from the ‘Tree of Fakery’, inasmuch as he grew with a dysfunctional upbringing, ‘latched on to’ a so-called ‘teaching’ and, with the core of his fruit growing more rotten with the years, parades the powdered blush of elegance to continue to dupe his followers – all the while living his self-taught lie?

57. WonderingWhosWatching - July 27, 2019

58. Rich - July 27, 2019

I’m with Miles Barth on Robert Burton: “The guy is evil”

59. Insider - July 27, 2019

58. Rich

“…and the Fellowship is a pathetic caricature of a school.”

60. warpage - July 28, 2019

I thought about what my attitude was, in the long term of things, towards my belonging to the FOF. I wanted to be in a certain ‘modus operandi’ . Self remembering was not going cross-eyed in strained awareness – it meant what I was and what I could give…but NO ! … the Grand Master of Greed had decreed that money denotes efforts on being and flinging dollars at ‘the school’ was the best way of showing your evaluation…from what I am told, The Wishing Well in the Sky has grown ever more greedy.

61. Cult Survivor - July 28, 2019

Somebody told me that this weekend a journalist is visiting Apollo and interviewing current and former members for a documentary about the FOF.

Anybody knows anything about that?

62. Tim Campion - July 28, 2019

61. Cult Survivor

It sounds like somebody knows. But not that somebody.

63. Cult Survivor - July 28, 2019

I spoke with a person that is a former member but is still in touch with current members and he told me that the journalist interviewed people, had lunch with Robert and members outside the Galleria and attended a performance of “Much Ado About Nothing”. The plot thickens.

64. Insider - July 28, 2019


Could be Fellowship PR. Probably much ado about nothing.

65. Cult Survivor - July 28, 2019

64. Insider

I don’t think so. I was told that the journalist interviewed several former members and asked them if they knew about any “illegal activities”.

66. Rich - July 28, 2019

maybe some dirt to read coming

67. warpage - July 29, 2019

If all of the above ‘takes’ on a journalist visiting Apollo, interviewing both current and former students, dining with Burton (and enablers?) and asking about illegal activities are true and we may take them ‘as a whole’, would you not suspect that the ‘Official FOF’ has been approached by the jounalist and, in its defense, is launching a preemptive attack on all dangerous factions to its viability – all blogs and all ex-members in vehement opposition to the cult.

Expect a ‘full on’ volley from the FOF Press Office and extra-squeaky-clean interview results from enablers and assorted members. We on this blog should be ready to respond to all possibilities.

68. Ocean Tiger - July 29, 2019

This journalist who flies to and from New York to cover the Fellowship of Friends story called me and we spoke for about 20 minutes. I directed him to my series of videos. I heard Burton has a new biography coming out called “50 Years In Prison.”

69. Ocean Tiger - July 29, 2019

I have a couple of questions if someone can share the answers with me. In the new issue of the Gurdjieff journal there is man’s face photoshopped behind the face of Alex Horn – who is that? Also, does anyone have a photo of Marcus Laskin? Thank You

70. Artemis44 - July 29, 2019

69. Ocean Tiger

The photograph behind Alex Horn is John G. Bennett, a disciple of P. D. Ouspensky. Apparently Alex Horn was a member of one of J. G. Bennet’s group in New York.

I would like to use this opportunity to apologize for assuming you were doing FOF PR when you posted the 47 pictures of Robert and the cavaliers. It was your first post and it didn’t include any explanation, since we had several cases of FOF members (or shills) doing FOF PR on this blog in the past I had the impression you were one of them. I’m sorry for that and welcome to the family — I enjoyed your videos on YouTube very much!

71. Tim Campion - July 29, 2019
72. WhaleRider - July 29, 2019

Ocean Tiger:
I wouldn’t expect someone will answer you, I recommend asking somebody else.

73. Artemis44 - July 29, 2019
74. Artemis44 - July 29, 2019
75. Ocean Tiger - July 29, 2019

Thank You for the information Artemis44 and Tim Campion.

I’ve read some of Bennett’s books and it is good to put a face to that name.

Artemis44: all is well – nothing to worry about. Thank You again.

76. ton2u - July 29, 2019

Ocean Tiger

Please repost links to your youtube videos… thank you!

77. Cult Survivor - July 29, 2019
78. ton2u - July 29, 2019

Cult Survivor

I wouldn’t say “enjoying” is the idea…. but maybe you meant that ‘tongue-in-cheek”? Anyway, thanks all the same.

For informational purposes and another inside point of view from a relatively recent escapee, I think it’s a good idea to have the link readily available and on more than one page here for anyone who might happen along.

Maybe the moderator would consider adding the link to the list at the top of the page?

79. Cult Survivor - July 29, 2019

78. Ton2u

I said “enjoy” because even if the topic is not funny at all (it’s tragic, actually), Eric/Gaia is a great storyteller and he can be extremely funny at times, like for example the story when he was in a van with REB and another members of REB’s entourage and needed to go to the restroom badly; people are not supposed to ask REB to stop the van so he tapped a guy sitting next to REB on the shoulder and said “Dude, I need to pee!”. Check it out.

80. Rich - July 29, 2019

I recall RB saying when Bennett died he wasn’t conscious because
his body turned blue or something at death this was ’76 or something

81. Tim Campion - July 29, 2019

The Gurdjieff Journal Issue 76 contains an article titled “Asaf on the Run.” Does anyone here know if that is referring to Asaf Braverman and have access to the story?

82. Cult Survivor - July 29, 2019

81. Tim Campion

I can’t imagine that the article is about anybody else besides Asaf Braverman — it’s a known fact that he had to leave the US in 2007 because of immigration fraud (a fraudulent marriage for a green card) and was “on the run” for 2 years.

By the way, this is how Asaf retells the story on one of his web sites (ggurdjieff.com, a mere gateway to BePeriod.com):

I encountered the Fourth Way in 1995, joining Burton’s Fellowship of Friends. I moved to the California headquarters in 2000 and began working closely with Burton on his teaching. In 2007, I was forced to set out on a two year journey, which brought me in contact with the origin of the ancient wisdom that I had been previously studying in theory. I traveled to all the major ancient sites of the world, spanning Asia, Europe, the Middle East, Central and South America.

Those two years of travel were an odyssey – a genuine encounter with the miraculous – which is always bitter-sweet and involves as much payment as it bestows reward. The experience was proof, if any were needed, that the spirit of ancient wisdom is as alive and accessible today as it ever was in previous days. The spark didn’t leave with Gurdjieff’s departure nor had it arrived only when he set foot on the stage. But to tell more than this would require a retelling of the entire teaching, which has been the aim of BePeriod [link].

Anyway, I just purchased the issue and will share the article here when I get it.

83. brucelevy - July 29, 2019

82. Cult Survivor

What a pile of horse shit. But then there’s a sucker born every minute.

84. brucelevy - July 29, 2019

Asaf is just another sociopath with no shame and no self awareness. He’s a predator. And people deserve what they get…ass fucked by a greasy little weasel. Same as it always was.

85. Tim Campion - July 29, 2019

Thanks, Cult Survivor.

86. Invictus maneo - July 29, 2019

50 Artemis 44
[Quoting an article] ‘…I can recall no anecdote depicting a teacher ordering one student to harm another or condoning such an action. Nor are there examples of students being encouraged to compete for the teacher’s attention. There are no examples of teachers entering into sexual relations with their students or enriching themselves with their money. All these examples have been common among current and past “spiritual” groups. ‘

Perhaps because followers of “true spiritual teachers” in the past had better control of the story after the spiritual teacher died. Now, with the internet still somewhat free and open, it is harder to whitewash history. There may never again be a spiritual teacher who was never known to abuse students, in one way or another.

We are all fallible humans who make mistakes and do things we believe to be wrong, including spiritual teachers.

87. warpage - July 29, 2019

Take this as you will, or watch the Award Winning Movie – “Lincoln”…

The 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1865 in the aftermath of the Civil War, abolished slavery in the United States. The 13th Amendment states: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

Despite the long history of slavery in the British colonies in North America, and the continued existence of slavery in America until 1865, the amendment was the first explicit mention of the institution of slavery in the U.S. Constitution.

While America’s founding fathers enshrined the importance of liberty and equality in the nation’s founding documents—including the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution—they conspicuously failed to mention slavery, which was legal in all 13 colonies in 1776.

Many of the founders themselves owned slaves, and though they acknowledged that slavery was morally wrong, they effectively pushed the question of how to eradicate it to future generations of Americans.

88. Artemis44 - July 29, 2019

86. warpage

And your point is…

89. Artemis44 - July 30, 2019

Sorry for the short message but after the Eric/Gaia misunderstanding I’m reluctant to assume anything you see.

90. Artemis44 - July 30, 2019

I was told I’m a Martial/Queen of Spades by the way, if that explains something.

91. warpage - July 30, 2019

88. Artemis44

To produce the Seal of Solomon…the activity of the Third Eye…bring Heaven (symbolism) down into contact with the Earth (rising pyramidically to greet it)…

Just think about slavery in abstract terms…Lincoln definitively worked to abolish slavery all his life and commanded through the Civil War with treaties and political intrigue on both sides of the House.

What do we see with Burton? …

Sex slavery…physical work slavery…emotional slavery…financial slavery…(I could go on).

Despite the obvious illegalities, the which I hope have been reported to the press correspondent, this is a disgusting travesty that dares to fly flags of the United States, California and World Flags on its property.

All you who aim to be Little Bo Peep, sheep-
Stop your Fall to the Ever Deep, wake-
From the Cauldron-coiled snake.

92. Artemis44 - July 30, 2019

91. warpage

Got it, thanks.

I found interesting the title of a REB’s biography that is coming out according to Eric/Gaia: ‘50 years in prison’.

93. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

91. warpage

“All you who aim to be Little Bo Peep, sheep-
Stop your Fall to the Ever Deep, wake-
From the Cauldron-coiled snake.”

94. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

90. Artemis44

I was told I’m a Jovial/King of Clubs by the way, if that explains something.

95. invictus maneo - July 30, 2019

I don’t support the goals of Patterson in any way, but posting entire issues of copyright material here could cause problems for the blog.

96. Artemis44 - July 30, 2019

95. invictus maneo

Good point. We should copy only excerpts (like he does when he uses text from this blog verbatim in his publications), not a link to the entire issue.

97. ton2u - July 30, 2019

Artemis @ 92

“I found interesting the title of a REB’s biography that is coming out according to Eric/Gaia: ‘50 years in prison’.”

sub-title: the viewpoints of a warden

98. WhaleRider - July 30, 2019

To produce the Seal of Solomon…the activity of the Third Eye…bring Heaven (symbolism) down into contact with the Earth (rising pyramidically to greet it)…”

Whoa there Nellie. My third ear is pyramidically detecting some bullshit here, symbolically speaking.

Go trash burton on your own blog if your agenda is to recruit followers.

This is a guru free zone.

99. warpage - July 30, 2019

98. WhaleRider

I respectfully decline to enter into either argument or step-by-step descriptive of what your ‘formatory psychiatric training’ cannot comprehend.

Yours is the work to intuite…yours is the understanding, if it happens.

100. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

Focus on our common enemy, friends, not on the small differences between the soldiers of our army. The evil tyrant is approaching the end of his rule and the press will expose the inner mechanisms of his empire like never before — victory is closer than we think! Sic semper tranies!

101. WhaleRider - July 30, 2019

Cult Survivor:
The common enemy here is delusional thinking, of which Warpage is unable to comprehend.

102. Ames Gilbert - July 30, 2019

#91, #99 and so many, many others. Nigel, time to take your meds and time for some self–discipline. How about a break for you—and us —until you are back in balance?

103. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

I see, we got a manic in the family.

104. ton2u - July 30, 2019

C.S. @ 103

re: your commentary – “a manic”

Seems to me this sort of labeling serves no purpose – other than to stigmatize and divide.

105. warpage - July 30, 2019

WR and AG and CS (gas!)

I believe you did not heed ton2u and I communicating my, shall we say, plea to moderator to allow my efforts at maintaining both a spacious pace and ‘raising the bar’ above nauseous self-referentialism, which had been my wont. I believe Steve made a decision since it was obvious to ton2u and me that I had been ‘routed’.

If it is fine with you gentlemen and Steve, we can continue or you can squeal/vote me out again. I have plenty of a life and a brand new romance with a Solar-Martial Supervisory Psychologist (I have no reason to lie).

I would also recommend your reading “Bipolar Expedition” and “The Unselfish Jinn”, both available on Amazon Books.

“Judge not that he be not ignorant”.

106. WhaleRider - July 30, 2019

Well said.

107. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

104. ton2u
106. WhaleRider

What I find ridiculous is that Bruce can call somebody “asshole” and nobody cares but I can’t call Nigel “manic” when he said many times that he suffers from bipolar disorder. By the way, “manic” is a technical term, just like “diabetic” — you are adding the stigma.

Anyway, I’ll be politically correct in the future, even when Bruce has carte blanche.

108. ton2u - July 30, 2019

Seems to me one thing we all have in common here is the Amfortas wound – a wound that doesn’t heal. Paraphrasing from a synopsis of the Parsifal story… scratching the surface:

The story of Parsifal is part of the medieval legend of King Arthur and the Quest for the Holy Grail. The Grail myth dates back to at least the twelfth century in Europe, and was transmitted in various versions, including French (from the poet Chretien de Troyes), English (Le Morte Darther, by Thomas Malory), German (Wolfram von Eschenbach’s version, which became the basis for Richard Wagner’s “Parsifal” opera) and others.

The Grail myth speaks directly to our psyche, and in particular, as the great Jungian analyst Robert A. Johnson notes in his seminal work, to the development of the psychology of the masculine, in both men and women – and it is as relevant now as it has ever been.

The myth surrounds the wounded Fisher King, Amfortas, the king of the Grail castle. The Fisher King wound, in psychological terms, is a common condition… where, as Johnson notes, (a person) “has naively blundered into something that is too much. S/he proceeds halfway through development and then drops it as being too hot. Often a certain bitterness arises, because, like the Fisher King, s/he can neither live with the new consciousness s/he has touched nor can s/he entirely drop it.”

This wound, however, is crucial for the development of consciousness, for its redemption, through the intercession of Parsifal, is what leads to the complete integration of the Self – it is what leads to a life of self awareness, contentment, passion and authenticity.

The court jester explains that the Fisher King could only be healed through the actions of an innocent fool, who would spontaneously need to ask a specific question. As Johnson again so eloquently explains, “A person must consent to look to a foolish, innocent, adolescent part of himself for his cure. The inner fool is the only one who can touch his Fisher King wound.”

Enter Parsifal, a name which means “pure fool,” an innocent young man raised by his overly-protective mother in poverty, knowing nothing of his dead father (who himself was a knight), without any direction or schooling. He is dazzled one day by the appearance of a group of knights who visit his village and, to his mother’s dismay, decides with all the bluster of youth to seek them out to become a knight himself. She agrees to let him go, but gives him a homespun garment that he elects to wear for much of his life; this garment, Johnson notes, represents the “Mother Complex” in psychology, and will prove costly to Parsifal in his development.

and so on and on the story goes…

109. warpage - July 30, 2019

107. Cult Survivor

It became Type 1 + or – bipolar high when manic started to be related to situations. As I have said and flung back at “Mind” and “National Centre for Mental Health” with their dreary surveys, designed to make money and more splintered words to use for the research people.- all ‘clients/service users’ who have experienced disgusting treatment by mental health services know THE IMPORTANCE OF PEER SUPPORT.

You could also Google “Hafal RCT” (hafal is Welsh for equal, hint fucking hint!).

110. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

108. ton2u

Fascinating, thank you for sharing. I’ll study the myth.

111. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

109. warpage

I’ll check your hints, thank you.

112. Insider - July 30, 2019

63. Cult Survivor

You wrote: “I spoke with a person that is a former member but is still in touch with current members and he told me that the journalist interviewed people, had lunch with Robert and members outside the Galleria and attended a performance of ‘Much Ado About Nothing’. The plot thickens.”

I have been in contact with people who work in the Gallaria and Apollo D’Oro kitchens. They tell me that, for all days up until the time you posted #63 above, Robert had lunch at Apollo D’Oro, not the Galleria, and that there was no “outsider” at his table.

I think your sources are lying to you. It now seems likely that whatever they told you about this “journalist” is untrue. And since you seem to be completely reliant on these “former members” for your information, I have to question just about everything you post here. Either they are bullshitting, or you are.

113. warpage - July 30, 2019

Christ – me agonized adrenals!!!

Ames was right and I did just take my night meds (wait for the drizzle to lower the consciousness from ‘frantic above level’ to the untimed-yet-never-knowing dream state).

I’ll probably dream about pissing in Burton’s Mercedes.

Bowing out for a few days, as mostly wished…

114. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

112. Insider

I checked again and this time I was told that he sat at a a table close to Robert’s table outside the Galleria. You know how it is when you hear things second hand.

Anyway, is this really important? Next thing you will say is that the play that he attended was not “Much Ado About Nothing”, it was “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”, so everything I say is BS.

Come on, man, chill out. I know you have a problem with me but let’s not take too much space here.

115. Nancy Gilbert - July 30, 2019

63. Cult Survivor:

When I read your post about RB having lunch, etc. with an outsider, especially a journalist, I immediately had red flags come up as to the validity of this information. Those of us who have been in the FoF know very well that RB never exposes himself to ‘outside people and forces’ unless they have been fully vetted by his protectors. He borders on the paranoid. This is not credible information and you need to verify the reliability of your so-called ‘source’. Gossipy, unsubstantiated and questionable rumors such as this are not useful on this blog, IMO.

116. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

115. Nancy Gilbert

I was a server at the Galleria for many years and saw Robert having lunch outside the Galleria several times with people that were non-members, like Bolshoi/Mariinsky ballet dancers, friends of the ballet dancers, friends of rich members, etc., so it’s not unheard. At any rate, the information is corrected now.

117. brucelevy - July 30, 2019

107. Cult Survivor

Personally I have no problem whatsoever to calling a manic a manic. It’s not derogatory if it’s true, which in the case of Nigel it is, and has been apparent for years, which is why he has been banned many times under many different aliases.

118. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

117. brucelevy

Right on, Bruce.

By the way, I noticed that there is a great deal of “political correctness” on this blog, and I attribute that to the fact that the vast majority of the people that contribute here are from the United States.

Isn’t it ironic that the current president of the US has zero politically correctness? May be that’s why he was elected, because lots of people in the US are sick and tired of political correctness.

At any rate, I’ll remember who the audience is and be more politically correct. We want to focus on what matters without losing time in minutiae.

119. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

I remember when somebody mentioned here that saw that Girard Haven’s computer had links to porn sites with girls that looked underage (confirming what Clara Haven reported here) and several people became upset and said that was a violation of Girard’s privacy — Bruce replied that Girard was on the board of the children’s school so it was not.

I also recall that when I mentioned that Mihai Algiu took part of several threesomes with Dorian and female members (including Dorian’s current wife) in the Galleria and now is a family therapist in Nevada City, several people were revolted because that could “damage his career”. Once again, Bruce argued that Mihai got his degree online and that he was a sociopath like Robert, so my comment wasn’t inappropriate.

It’s deja vu all over again. We used to call it “feminine dominance”, remember?

120. WhaleRider - July 30, 2019

Cult Survivor:
Need I remind you that the majority of Americans didn’t vote for trump?

Call it what you will, what i’m referring to is empathy for others, a trait FOF indoctrination sorely lacks.

121. Cult Survivor - July 30, 2019

120. WhaleRider

Need I remind you that the majority of Americans didn’t vote for trump?
2016 Presidential Election
Hillary R. Clinton 65,845,063
Donald J. Trump 62,980,160
63 million is a lot of people, don’t you think?

Call it what you will, what i’m referring to is empathy for others, a trait FOF indoctrination sorely lacks.
I don’t think that it has anything to do with “FOF indoctrination” (that promotes “external consideration”), it has to do with cultural programming IMO. Notice that Nigel wasn’t offended by my comment, on the contrary. It’s all in the mind of the observers, that ‘s why I called it “feminine dominance” or “morality”, as it is usually known.

122. fofblogmoderator - July 30, 2019

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