Fellowship Of Friends/Fourth Way School/Living Presence Discussion – Page 176 June 11, 2019
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Fellowship of Friends - Living Presence Discussion 
This blog is about the Fellowship of Friends cult, his founder Robert Earl Burton, and the off-shot organization BePeriod founded by Burton’s main disciple for 20 years, Asaf Braverman.
According to the paper “Cult Formation” by Robert J. Lifton, MD (“The Harvard Mental Health Letter”, Volume 7, Number 8), these are the three characteristics of cults:
1. A charismatic leader who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose their power.
2. A process called “coercive persuasion” or “thought reform”.
3. Economic, sexual, or other type of exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling elite.
The Fellowship of Friends and Beperiod have all three characteristics above; the Fellowship of Friends has a fourth one that classifies it as a “doomsday cult”:
4. Proclaiming that people in the organization are the only ones that will survive an impending catastrophe, global war, apocalypse or Armageddon.
If you are interested in joining Robert Burton’s Fellowship of Friends or Asaf Braverman’s BePeriod, make sure you read the material on this site and the one below before making a decision.
https://robertearlburton.blogspot.com
Please feel free to ask questions if you need more information.
101. Insider – June 10, 2019
98. Cult Survivor – Really?. You said you joined the FF in 1988, and very soon after visited Apollo and had an “encounter” with Burton. The first Russian center opened in 1991, and it would be at least a year or two before the first Russians came to Oregon House. You had several years to speak with men who had been raped by Burton before the compliant Russians arrived. At least make up a theory that fits the facts.
I would like to remind you that it was not my theory — it was my wife’s.
I moved to Apollo in 1998 and by then Burton entourage was composed mainly of Russians and Romanians. Before that I only visited Apollo for shorter periods and didn’t have contact with any of Robert’s lovers with the exception of the friend of mine that escaped the Galleria and came to my place, as I mentioned before.
Welcome to everyone and all newcomers!
The discussion here actually tends to go far beyond the scope of the Fellowship of Friends / Robert Earl Burton and Be Period / Asaf Braverman topics. Most, but not all participants are former Fellowship of Friends students.
The Fellowship of Friends Discussion “wears many hats”, chief among them as an alternative view of the cult that masquerades as a “Fourth Way” esoteric school helmed by Robert Earl Burton from its headquarters in Oregon House, California and online at livingpresence.com. It’s serves as a source for seekers researching what was presented to them as a non-profit Fourth Way School but in actuality is a big money earning / sexual partner providing cult that caters particularly to its founder. It’s an online forum for newly ex-Fellowship of Friends students to learn about what they’ve actually been a party to and find out more about who they have been scammed by. The Fellowship of Friend’s elegant trappings are acknowledged but peeled back here to reveal its horny, dark underbelly.
The Fellowship of Friends Discussion is like a campfire where new former members and old timer ex-members gather to tell their own personal stories, the stories of friends and others. Non-ex members participate too, and report about and wonder at the audacity and prevalence of the many other cults out there that share destructive or abusive traits with the Fellowship of Friends. The Fellowship of Friends Discussion is an online discussion especially for those who share a unique interlude in their life – to heal, express pain or sometimes just have a laugh.
Welcome to all and to your point of view!
Cult Follower Has Shocking Realization
Oregroan House, CA-Vassily Petrograf, a long time follower of the Fellowship of Friends, awoke on Wednesday morning after a sobering dream in which he was visited by a strange and unfamiliar apparition, his “Future Self”.
“I’ve been consciously working for years attempting to keep myself only in the present on behalf of my “Higher Self” no matter what, resisting the temptations of my “Lower Self” to think about others”, he stated in wide-eyed terror, “when a part a myself I’ve never met appeared quite vividly in my dream last night. My “Future Self” warned me that if I only focus on the now and not the later, then I’ll end up just like my teacher.”
Mr Petrograf was shocked to realize that the reason his teacher, Robert E Burton, always predicted disasters in the future and was never visited by his own “Future Self”, is that after so many years of alcohol abuse and obsessive sperm consumption, clearly indicating his penchant for instant gratification and lack of impulse control, the increasingly absent-minded Burton is now suffering from dementia and paranoia.
In other words, by living only in the now and surrounding himself exclusively with sycophants whom never disagree with him, he never had anyone to play devil’s advocate, or had a “Future Self” capable of helping him reflect upon the consequences of demonizing and traumatizing anyone who expresses dissent about his ruthless behaviors, because currently it is quite apparent to all that he is fearful of his past catching up with him, losing track of his consciousness and his functions, and, much to the chagrin of his ardent followers, where he put the keys to paradise.
Jim Mattis – Secretary for Defense to Donald Trump –
“Never before has a generation recorded itself achieving so little”.
“When the governing class isn’t chosen for quality it is chosen for material wealth: this always means decadence, the lowest stage a society can reach.” (Aphorism on a wall of The Temple of Man in Luxor, Egypt)
6. Cult Survivor
Kakistocracy. It’s what we now have, and it will take decades to correct, if ever.
7. brucelevy
Is that a government made of kaka?
Pretty much
Definition: Government by the shitheads.
Background: A kakistocracy is defined as government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. According to the online Free Dictionary, kakistocracy was used as early as the 1600s.)
It can be said that the government of the United States is a kakastocracy.
“Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, and for the same reason.”
Mark Twain
44th Way:
“A genuine distinction can be made and experienced between the active mind and the observing consciousness.”
Is that really the hallmark of an “evolved” person though?
Is there really a “genuine distinction” between “the active mind” and “consciousness”? I don’t believe there is.
To me, this kind of compartmentalization of self-awareness occurs naturally in just about everyone I know unless they are in a coma.
It’s how a person adapts to their social environment, sometimes at the expense of their upbringing, and it rarely goes unnoticed by the individual unless they are suffering from multiple personality disorder, IMO.
I experience this as one “observer” sub-personality witnessing another sub-personality; both are aspects of the Self, both originate in the mind and both are subject to confirmation bias…like trusting the Police Department to investigate itself for wrongdoing.
When is a person not self-aware? Is a person unaware of themselves or not “present” if they are angry when someone violates their boundaries, for example?
Sure it might be pointless to get mad at a dog who bites you, but doesn’t one need to maintain and defend healthy boundaries in order to define oneself? Aren’t people with weak boundaries the target of bullying?
Or are personal boundaries an obstacle to the sexual exploitation and clergy abuse of followers by the likes of burton and his rape factory?
For that matter, is a person any less spiritual because they are paying less attention to the sensual experience of their surroundings while they are daydreaming?
What if they are daydreaming about entering Paradise (like FOF members probably do) or imagining how another person might be suffering in pain and come to their aid?
IMO, the so-called “observer” that the cult mistakenly attributes to “consciousness” is just another personality, albeit a regressed and compliant one, subject to unconscious substratum, just like all the other personalities a person contains.
It’s the same part of a FOF follower’s personality that observes and feels compelled to “photograph” inconsistencies and deviations in other followers.
IMO, it’s also what drives the “us and them” mentality; when an individual elevates one personality above another in themselves, (good vs bad, higher vs lower) they project the paradigm outwardly as a defense against the shaky ground on which they stand.
These many years later I realize how uncritically I accepted fourth way ideas without challenging the underlying assumptions, due to my lack of experience and understanding at the time.
Nixvm: How a Sex Cult Leader Seduced and Programmed His Followers
“Six former Nxivm members have taken the stand, providing a window into how the group indoctrinated people, undermined their moral beliefs and convinced them to blindly follow Mr. Raniere’s edicts, even when that meant breaking the law or tolerating unwelcome sexual contact.
At the root of Nxivm teachings, witnesses said, was the notion that people had to learn to override their instincts…and reject social conventions that turned them into “robots.”
Dr. Janja Lalich, a sociologist at California State University, Chico, and an author of books on cults, said Nxivm shares characteristics with many of these types of groups.
“Cults often display a zealous commitment to a special and unaccountable leader, discourage dissent and control members through shame, guilt and peer pressure”, she said.
“The more that they have absorbed and internalized the belief system the harder it is to question it,” she said of cult members. “Your personal sense of self has been replaced by your cult self and when you’ve become enveloped in a sphere of influence all the aberrant behavior becomes normalized.”
Sound familiar?
11. WhaleRider
IMO, the so-called “observer” that the cult mistakenly attributes to “consciousness” is just another personality, albeit a regressed and compliant one, subject to unconscious substratum, just like all the other personalities a person contains.
Please forgive me for the Fourth Way jargon but I don’t see any other way to express my thoughts regarding this topic.
To my knowledge, according to the Fourth Way system the so-called “observer” is a “group of I’s” that observes the rest of the “I’s” (i. e., a “Work personality” that observes the other more mechanical personalities) so it’s not “higher centers” or “consciousness”.
If the observer were conscious the Fellowship of Friends would be composed of conscious beings and I don’t think that’s the case, regardless of what Burton claims.
Cult Survivor:
IMO, the “work personality” is just as “mechanical” or as I would say “subject to destructive, unhealthy, unconscious tendencies” as the so-called, “mechanical personalities” you mentioned, as evidenced by the “us and them” mentality inherent in cult indoctrination, not to mention the intentional practice of shunning and demonizing dissenters by cult leaders.
Correct me if I’m wrong; I think we both agree on that.
Although self-centered narcissism lacks empathy for others, in these individuals I’ve met there doesn’t appear to be a lack of self-awareness or inability to be present to their surroundings, but quite the opposite: they are quite self-aware to an extreme degree and very attuned to the weaknesses in others.
The question I have for you is: do you believe such an entity as a “conscious being”, of which you believe the FOF is decidedly not composed…actually exists?
(Obviously, after so many years in the cult you now see how foolhardy it is to give “carte blanche” to anyone who makes that claim when their aberrant behavior and delusional beliefs suggest otherwise, as in burton’s case.)
To me, belief in a “conscious being” just seems like an idealization of the human condition embedded in cult speak, or frankly, wishful thinking.
2. WhaleRider – June 14, 2019
Sound familiar?
Yes; here’s another excerpt, from trial testimony:
“Nxivm programs were “creating a community of people and kind of even an army of people to insulate and protect Keith and his views and legitimize and advocate for the lifestyle that he wanted.”
According to the testimony, Nxivm leaders sought to learn what people most wanted or feared, then presented courses as a solution.
Mr. Vicente said that some upper-level courses were aimed at changing students’ “programming,” likening the process to hacking a computer. The courses eroded people’s “instinctual” sense of ethics, he said.
“It in essence played with our moral compass,” he said.”
Another excerpt:
“Some ex-Nxivm members said that they remained in the group despite reservations partly because they did not want to doubt people and programs they had trusted.”
Yes, sounds very familiar!
15. Golden Veil
“Some ex-Nxivm members said that they remained in the group despite reservations partly because they did not want to doubt people and programs they had trusted.”
When I heard a few days ago that yet another Fellowship member has cancer, a 65-70 year-old woman and long-time member, I realized how comforting it is to remain in the FF, to be cared for while ill, recovering, or dying; to have all burial arrangements, and other practical matters, taken care of; to be surrounded by thoughtful and compassionate friends (if no family).
There is a cohort of members who joined in the 70s and early 80s who are going nowhere at this point in their life despite serious “reservations” about Burton.
re: 7,8,9
kakistocracy, kakastocracy, what’s the dif…
It’s all the same shit.
entre-preneur (n.)
meaning (lit.)…he who grasps between.
Consider that well worn phrase – consciousness.
Many have stated that mindful thoughts imply worthy actions. If the observer is entrepreneurial about thoughts, then perhaps useful thoughts issue toward correct action.
Some people are not aware that their ‘thoughts run riot’.
Some people are not aware.
Burton has dominance and charisma. With sex, they have him.
Burton is one of the walking dead.
16. Insider – June 14, 2019
You wrote, “… I realized how comforting it is to remain in the FF, to be cared for while ill, recovering, or dying; to have all burial arrangements, and other practical matters, taken care of; to be surrounded by thoughtful and compassionate friends …”
Yes, some find comfort and assistance at the end of their life, while others who have devoted years of service have been summarily discarded (or hidden) due to their disability or illness being an unpleasing impression to Robert Burton. The record for many is not a pretty one.
https://robertearlburton.blogspot.com/2019/01/81-stories-of-robert-earl-burtons-abuses.html
Others who have worked tirelessly as caregivers for years ~ are quickly forgotten, not a mention of their compassionate friendship, or remembrance of them at all by their “friends.” See Mr. Walker’s page.
http://www.elysiansociety.org/
20. Golden Veil
Yes, you are so right about Burton ignoring/discarding people. Gloria Cambridge (wife of Lucas), late in her life, was asked by Burton not to attend his dinners anymore because she could not stay fully alert (“present”) for the entire event, and because she could not resist nibbling the food while Burton was talking.
Burton carefully chooses ill and dying people to hold up as examples of loyalty for the rest of the flock to emulate, as in “Jane Doe is dying of cancer, and yet still attends 3 meetings a week. Let that be a standard for the rest of you.”
Is there anyone visiting the Discussion here ~ who looked at Mr. Walker’s Elysium Society page (which was created after his passing this January) and notice that it is written about him:
“He was active in helping to create and sustain the Hygeia Society – an early version of the Circle of Friends.”
Evidently, all the people that he cared for – were possibly the only ones who cared about him ~ and they are all dead. Not one student has written a word to honor their friendship with him or share a memory of him on the page. That is sad.
The Fellowship of Friends indeed…
http://www.elysiansociety.org/in-memory/douglas-walker/
Reposting this. Did anyone read the article?
See an addition quote at bottom.
“Unmasking the Guru
Our new digital world has made it impossible to believe in infallible teachers. What comes next is up to us.
Interview with Bernhard Pörksen by Ursula Richard
SUMMER 2019 [Tricycle]
Changing cultural attitudes are not the only. . .reason that public revelations of institutionalized sexual abuse have been at the forefront of mainstream consciousness. Abuse is nothing new. What is new is the way it is being revealed to the public—and what the public is doing with the information.
Bernhard Pörksen is a professor of media studies at the University of Tübingen in southwest Germany, with particular research interest in the new media age. His writing regularly appears in both scholarly and popular science publications, and two of his books have been on the bestseller list in Germany. He has written or co-authored books on topics such as journalism, constructivism, and communications and systems theories, and he has received accolades for his direct and engaged appearances as a speaker, talk show guest, interview moderator, and discussion partner on radio and television as well as at conventions and public events.
In the following interview, Ursula Richard of the German magazine Buddhismus aktuell discusses with Pörksen the exposure and aftermath of scandals in Buddhist communities today and how we can understand the emerging role played by digital media.
—The Editors”
https://tricycle.org/magazine/bernhard-porksen/
Or, in print, at a newsstand near you.
Another quote:
“To sum it up: the holy man has become a broken shell, the guru is a sad or pathetic or—worst-case scenario—even criminal figure. And the image of the exalted being has to compete for attention with our personal experience and the online documentation of the guru’s disgrace.”
Just the Facts Ma’am:
Excellent article, thanks for reposting. It brings up an important issue touched upon by Cult Survivor:
“In conclusion, is there also a maxim relating to abuse issues? Yes. However difficult and painful it may be, at some point we have to accept the unthinkable as thinkable, in spite of our own experience of beauty, tranquility, and kindness. “See what is different from you, in all its strange-ness and fearfulness” might be the relevant categorical imperative to guide perception. And then investigate carefully and impartially, and act immediately to empower victims and prevent further suffering.”
Since burton’s current harem were trafficked presumably from a social, economic or political environment far worse than the opulent environment they are currently living in, and although they have been groomed and manipulated into being burton’s sex slaves and probably living with the fear of deportation and therefore may not complain as a result…has this accommodation of burton’s fraud and sexual mania cleansed the conscience of his followers and alleviated the suffering of his victims?
IMO, only once the guru is unmasked and demystified, so too is the suffering his victims endured unmasked and demystified.
24. WhaleRider
You said: Excellent article, thanks for reposting. It brings up an important issue touched upon by Cult Survivor. “In conclusion, is there also a maxim relating to abuse issues? Yes. However difficult and painful it may be, at some point we have to accept the unthinkable as thinkable, in spite of our own experience of beauty, tranquility, and kindness.(…)”
Since you mentioned my name, I feel compelled to comment. Yes, I experienced “beauty, tranquility and kindness” during the 28 years that I was a member of the Fellowship of Friends, but I also saw Burton manipulating people and abusing his “spiritual power” in order to extract money from his followers and get young male lovers. I also witnessed tax and immigration fraud, as it is well documented in the letter that former FoF lawyer — now disbarred and a fugitive abroad — David Lubbers/Springfield sent to the FoF board in May of 2009 (available in Wikileaks and Tim’s site).
The reason I stayed for 28 years was that I felt that my life in the FoF was better that outside of it. This changed now that I have been an ex-member for 2 years, but when I was a member I didn’t feel that the tax and immigration frauds were a reason to leave because I believed that the money saved from taxes was being used “to make Apollo beautiful” and the immigration fraud was intended to bring students to Apollo. That changed now, of course, that’s why I expose the FoF here and on the FoF article on Wikipedia.
So what about the young boys that were sex trafficked to USA and raped by Burton?
As I mentioned before, after I moved to Apollo in 1998 I became a friend of several Russian and Romanian lovers of Burton (some of them became close friends) and I never experienced any remorse or trauma from them. Not once I heard that they were Burton’s lovers for “fear of deportation”, as you mentioned. I understand that you left the FoF in 1985, 7 years before Burton started importing his lovers from Russia and Romania, so most likely we have a different perception on this issue, as my wife suggested. Moreover, I understand that you had sex with Burton and I never did, so that’s also a factor. At any rate, I don’t condone Burton’s activities — on the contrary, I would advise anybody interested in joining the Fellowship of Friends not to do it, not because of “sex trafficking”, “sexual abuse”, “rape”, etc. but based on the following 3 areas:
1. THE TEACHING.
The Fellowship of Friends is not a “Fourth Way school”, as it claims on their web site and bookmarks in order to attract new members. Burton abandoned the Fourth Way in 2006 when he introduced the so-called “Sequence” with Asaf Braverman. Since then, the whole teaching is based on intoning monosyllabic commands and detecting 6’s, 4’s, squares, circles, etc. in works of art, license plates, outdoor signs, etc. In summary, the current “teaching” is basically Burton’s delirious ramblings.
2. THE MEMBERSHIP.
The average age of the members of the FoF is presently around 60 years old and most of them are still in the organization not because of Burton and his teaching but because they don’t have anywhere to go. Most of them have been in the FoF for decades and leaving now is not an option. Anybody joining the FoF these days would be joining a “spiritual retirement community”.
3. THE COST.
The monthly “teaching payment” to be a member of the FoF is in theory 10% of the gross income plus 2 special donations of $750 per year, but currently most people pay the minimum of $405 per month plus the 2 special donations, what means that the minimum payment to stay in the FoF is $530 per month without attending any events. Members living at Apollo are encouraged to attend Burton’s events (members living abroad should visit Apollo for the “Journey Forth By Day” events, around $400 plus the plane ticket), that cost between $55 for a general 150-people meeting and $150 for a place at a dinner with him and another 27 people, so a typical monthly payment for a person living at Apollo is $750 per month ($530 plus 4 meetings at $55). A few events can be paid with a “voucher” that is earned for 6 hours of physical work, but that is becoming increasingly difficult for the aging members. A minimum of 530 to 750 dollars per month is a large amount to be part of an organization the offers only “beauty, tranquility and kindness” and has a decrepit leader that promotes a delirious teaching (I’m not even talking about the predictions).
In my opinion that should be enough for interested people not to join, without having to mention “sex trafficking”, “sexual abuse”, “rape”, etc. since those are more difficult to prove and a prospective FoF member could argue that if Burton were a sex predator for 50 years he should be incarcerated by now. I doubt that anybody, FoF member or not, would claim that the 3 areas that I listed above are not true.
Nexis leader trail is hot news
26
Do you mean Nxivm?
27.brucelevy I guessed at the spelling, I think yes.
here’s more info:
If only…
So…the BIG QUESTION IS…why does not Burton get caught at it? …you know – AT IT, then dragged through the law courts for all the (shall we say misdemeanours or crimes?) within the bounds of Statute of Limitations (or should several thousand other crimes be considered by the court?).
31. warpage
I guess you are partly asking why Burton does not get prosecuted(?). Has anyone ever gone to the Yuba County District Attorney or the California Attorney General to get them interested in opening a criminal investigation? Why not?
Every current and past Fellowship president and vice-president, plus most Board of Directors members, know more than enough enough to bring Burton down. But most of them are also living in, and enjoying, the Burton Bullshit Bubble, complete with the belief that they will “lose paradise” if they turn against Burton. They still fervently believe that the Fellowship is the most special and unique “conscious school” in the history of humanity, and that everything Burton does is being directed by angels.
As I have mentioned before, Burton has surrounded himself with many layers of protection, people who can be trusted to keep quiet (hello Linda, Kevin, Steven D, Dorian, Ethan, Diana K, Wayne, etc., etc.), and who will do and say anything to keep Burton out of jail. As Karen J said recently, if she could, she would be honored to take Burton’s place in prison.
He’s been civilly charged twice and ended up settling rather then going to court. As far as criminal charges all but one were of majority age and nobody put guns to their heads. It would be difficult. I’m surprised nobody has taken him out after all these years. Going to prove the axiom “Only the good die young”.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48635278
Burton gives ‘a piece of the action’ to loyal supporters, making it hard
to give up luxuries.
25. Cult Survivor
You said, “As I mentioned before, after I moved to Apollo in 1998 I became a friend of several Russian and Romanian lovers of Burton (some of them became close friends) and I never experienced any remorse or trauma from them. Not once I heard that they were Burton’s lovers for ‘fear of deportation’, as you mentioned.”
They became Burton’s lovers and sex-slaves in exchange for a visa, a life style way beyond their dreams, status, money, travel, etc. The other side of that coin was the fear of losing all the perks, were they ever to deny Burton his wishes. As reported on this blog, look what happened to the Greek person who said “no” to sex with Burton: immediately thrown out of the Fellowship, forced to give up his marriage, and returned to Greece (although Burton allowed him back in many months later).
So just because these Russians and Romanians did not share with you a fear of deportation (if they even were aware of it), a little common sense will conclude that they feared deportation, and losing their rich lifestyle, indeed. And this dynamic is still being played out today, which you could see if you took off the rose-colored glasses that blind you to just about any serious criticism of Burton and how he gets what he wants (IMO).
36. Insider
I have no idea what you mean by “rose-colored glasses”. Please read my posts since October last year when I started contributing to this blog and see how much I criticize Burton and the Fellowship of Friends.
As I said before, I’m a “moderate ex-member”: I expose Burton and the FoF but refuse to use terms like “sex trafficking”, “sex slaves”, “rape”, etc. because that’s not what I saw in the almost 3 decades that I was a member of the FoF. If that makes you believe that I’m a FoF supporter so be it — I know that I am not.
37. Cult Survivor
Three decades. My my, you are fucking oblivious.
Better to be out after 3 decades than to still be a member… Now I can do the waltz and impress my friends with my knowledge of wine and Russian ballet dancers… Oh yes, I also know hundreds of quotes!
39. Cult Survivior or listen to jazz, explore modern art and wear
jeans to dinner, etc,
39. Cult Survivor
I was referring to being oblivious to the suffering that RB’s victims experienced with your judgement that in three decade you still saw no signs of the damage because they didn’t complain to YOU. When it happened to me many years ago I, for a short time, lived in the boy cottage with many others. None of us discussed it so we each thought it was only happening to ourselves and nobody else, until some of us spoke up. I went around with a smile on my face, yet I was deeply effected by what was happening. You must be a very poor judge of other people, but you do appear to really appreciate yourself. Actually, you seem quite narcissistic.
40. rich
Exactly.
41. brucelevy
You said: I was referring to being oblivious to the suffering that RB’s victims experienced with your judgement that in three decade you still saw no signs of the damage because they didn’t complain to YOU.
I mentioned that I was a friend of several of Burton’s lovers and didn’t see any sex trafficking, sexual abuse or rape, but I forgot to mention that I didn’t hear Burton lovers complaining to ANYBODY, not just to ME.
You said: When it happened to me many years ago I, for a short time, lived in the boy cottage with many others. None of us discussed it so we each thought it was only happening to ourselves and nobody else, until some of us spoke up. I went around with a smile on my face, yet I was deeply effected by what was happening.
I have a strong impression that you had a different experience of the FoF than mine, similar to Whalerider (as my wife suggested.) You don’t know what happened during the almost 30 years that I was in the FoF because you were not there.
You said: You must be a very poor judge of other people, but you do appear to really appreciate yourself. Actually, you seem quite narcissistic.
Considering the absence of expletives in your remark I take that as a compliment.
MESSAGE TO ALL
Please check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellowship_of_Friends
https://localwiki.org/yuba-sutter/Fellowship_of_Friends
Those are the first 2 links that appear when searching for “fellowship of friends” on Google (the third is Tim’s REB blog site):
If you can visit those 3 sites a couple of times per week (the more the better) there are more chances that they will remain at the top.
If you can also subscribe to my YouTube FoF channel (link below) that would be great.
Thank you!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pwIeL52g-yRPpNXk-fETg
Cult Survivor
Have you noticed how ‘off balance’ and defensive you are about your certain point of view on this blog? Each time another blogger relates a story or theme of some other ‘nature’, you immediately jump in with the stance that you, in fact, have the only way of looking at the FOF. There appears to be some -ism in your psychology unable to hold the relatability of another blogger. I feel this is a weakness, without being disparaging about your efforts.
47. warpage
Thanks for the feedback — I was reading the messages above and I can see that.
I see this blog as a space for catharsis and healing for former members and a source of help for people that are still members but are having thoughts to leave (Tim’s REB blog and the Wikipedia article are better to inform people that are looking for information).
When we concentrate in our differences the catharsis stops and the healing is interrupted.
Online blogs and forums are known for evoking a side of us that is confrontational. I will watch that in me.
45. Cult Survivor – June 21, 2019
I did the search via engine Duck Duck Go on a browser I don’t normally use (and I misspelled freinds!) The Yuba-Sutter LocalWiki was the first result, then the below link to a page by Ethan Milsark, perhaps an ex-member, the second result, and this Discussion was the third…
* It’s likely that your particular results are because of algorithms based on your prior searches with Google.
https://prezi.com/xhqofgvgyw5w/the-fellowship-of-freinds/
49. Golden Veil
I did a search on Google on a computer that I never used before and got the same results that I posted above. I believe you got different results because you used DuckDuckGo.
It would be great if other people could verify the results.
I also checked the search engines’ market share and found the following:
Google 92.04%
Yahoo 2.67%
Bing 2.37%
Baidu 0.89%
Yandex.ru 0.51%
DuckDuckGo 0.38%
Source:
http://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share
That means that we should concentrate on Google.
That’s an interesting presentation from Ethan Milsark that you found. Thanks for sharing.
I would like to think there is some secret code that would break the Burton curse. As many have posted, the enablers are too many and too entrenched to allow Burton to become vulnerable.
This blog is more useful than many would think (and I think Cult Survivor has much to offer). I am sure he, too, realizes there was much ‘troubled action’, shall we say and was and is bordering on the criminal. But the culpability is surrounded by obfuscations, excuses and downright scams.
I wish more bloggers would write of their ‘Burtonesque experiences’.
Cult Survivor:
“You don’t know what happened during the almost 30 years that I was in the FoF because you were not there.
As I said before, I’m a “moderate ex-member”: I expose Burton and the FoF but refuse to use terms like “sex trafficking”, “sex slaves”, “rape”, etc. because that’s not what I saw in the almost 3 decades that I was a member of the FoF.”
There’s an old Persian saying, “A blind man who sees is better than a sighted person who is blind.”
It is quite clear to me now that burton employs the guise of a guru to mask his sexual predatory behavior.
What happened to me put me in a state of shock at the time.
Being roused by a man that everyone revered in the middle of the night wearing the oversized pajamas he gave me and being quietly ushered into his bedroom…it took me more than 20 years and this blog (Thanks to Ames, ton2u and others) to finally understand that the imbalance of power and exploitation of his position as “the brightest light in 2000 years” to lure his followers into having sex with him constitutes second degree rape, just like certain Catholic Church clergymen, only in this instance burton is the pope at the top of the food chain with no higher authority to provide oversight, and that’s primarily how he has gotten away with it.
At one point in a hotel in Milan burton actually forced himself upon me, which was interrupted by a phone call from Laura Bishop. As I was lying on the bed with my pants unzipped and my semen spilled, he quipped, “Are you done?”
It was those experiences that I later recalled which made me realize I was being used as nothing more than his narcissistic object, his toy: it was not a loving relationship at all.
Even though you may not have heard any of his current sex slaves complain, what makes you think burton treats them any different in private?
IMO, after 28 years in the cult, frankly, burton’s behavior had become normalized to you, given the fact that you stayed in anesthetized so long because life outside the rape factory seemed less desirable to you.
I reached my tipping point much sooner, not because of the absurdity of burton’s teaching or the high cost, or the quality of now aging members, all of which and whom were much more palatable back then, I left because I could not reconcile the facade of the cult with what was happening behind the scenes. I felt my spirit was starting to be compromised by living a double life; I also had a girlfriend at the time as well, with whom I might add, I was also having unprotected sex, during the outbreak of AIDS in the mid-1980’s.
I urge you to describe the details of how burton’s recruits and maintains his harem to others who were not members and note their reaction. Then you might be able to empathize with Bruce and I…and the hundreds of others burton has RAPED.
Nobody enjoys being told they are in denial, and at the same time, I applaud and greatly appreciate your efforts.
The code that breaks burton’s spell is the truth.
For Burton’s long established attitude to other people I recall a much shared quote from him before his prediction that California would fall into the sea failed to materialise. The quote, which was thought to be deep and to encapsulate how far beyond the rest of us he was, was this “The deaths of the life people who will be engulfed is the equivalent of throwing a bunch of transistor radios into the sea”
43
“Considering the absence of expletives in your remark I take that as a compliment.”
Exactly what a clinical narcissist would say.
WhaleRider
I suspect this question, or the lead up to a question, is best answered by you since you have recently ‘told some of your story’…
Sex should be positive, right? Was sex with Burton enjoyable, given that you are a heterosexual man and he gay (perverted)? If it started confused (guilty/feminine dominance/Burton’s dominance) when did the sex become matter-of-fact and tolerable (how do you get an erection with a partner you are not attracted to?). When was the ‘tipping point’ when you had had enough? or did Burton dispose of you in blasse fashion?
If these are too many questions or indelicate (I do not understand where you ‘fell in the boy-pool’ and continued being part of his entourage) – to use the ladies phrase – NO MEANS NO!
51. warpage
You said: This blog is more useful than many would think (and I think Cult Survivor has much to offer). I am sure he, too, realizes there was much ‘troubled action’, shall we say and was and is bordering on the criminal. But the culpability is surrounded by obfuscations, excuses and downright scams.
Yes, I do realize there is “troubled action”: tax fraud, immigration fraud, and financial and sex exploitation. I also realize that there is obfuscation of culpability by the ruling elite.
52. WhaleRider
You said: It is quite clear to me now that burton employs the guise of a guru to mask his sexual predatory behavior.
I totally agree with that.
You said: (…) it took me more than 20 years and this blog (Thanks to Ames, ton2u and others) to finally understand that the imbalance of power and exploitation of his position as “the brightest light in 2000 years” to lure his followers into having sex with him constitutes second degree rape, just like certain Catholic Church clergymen, only in this instance burton is the pope at the top of the food chain with no higher authority to provide oversight, and that’s primarily how he has gotten away with it.
I see similarities and differences between the sexual abuse of the Catholic priests and Burton’s sexual exploitation: the similarity is that in both cases there is abuse of power in order to obtain sexual favors, the difference is the age of the victims. I checked the age of the known victims of the Catholic priests and found that 5% are between 1-5 years of age, 23% between 8 and 10, 49% between 11 and 14 and 33% between 15 and 17 years (source: “Sexual abuse of minors by Catholic clergy”, link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6026962/). Note that the study doesn’t mention victims older than 18 years old, because it’s not considered “sexual abuse” when the victim is older than the age of consent and when violence was not used. That’s why I don’t like to use expressions like “sexual abuse” or “rape” but prefer “sexual exploitation” regarding Burton’s behavior. By the way, I looked at the definition of sexual exploitation and found this: “Taking advantage of the sexuality and attractiveness of a person to make a personal gain or profit. It is the abuse of a position of vulnerability, differential power, or trust for sexual purposes.”
You said: At one point in a hotel in Milan burton actually forced himself upon me, which was interrupted by a phone call from Laura Bishop. As I was lying on the bed with my pants unzipped and my semen spilled, he quipped, “Are you done?”
As I said before, I feel very sorry for your experiences in the FoF and your graphic descriptions are very poignant in delivering the message, but I don’t think that what happened to you was “sexual abuse” or “rape” technically speaking since you were not a minor and Burton didn’t use physical force as far as I can tell. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
You said: It was those experiences that I later recalled which made me realize I was being used as nothing more than his narcissistic object, his toy: it was not a loving relationship at all.
I totally agree with that, and that’s is what I call “sexual exploitation”. To my knowledge nobody has been convicted in criminal court for using a person of legal age as a “narcissistic toy”.
You said: Even though you may not have heard any of his current sex slaves complain, what makes you think burton treats them any different in private?
I do think that Burton treats his current lovers (I don’t use the expression “sex slaves”) the same way he treated you, that’s one of the reasons I’m a regular contributor on this blog, re-created the Wikipedia FoF article, created the FoF YouTube channel and corrected the FoF local wiki.
You said: IMO, after 28 years in the cult, frankly, burton’s behavior had become normalized to you, given the fact that you stayed in anesthetized so long because life outside the rape factory seemed less desirable to you.
I do agree that I was influenced by the cult programming during the 28 years I was in the FoF. I can see that now (2 years after leaving), a sign of that is that I didn’t talked about Burton’s sexual behavior or read this blog during the 28 years I was a member and I’m talking about Burton’s sexual exploitation here now. By the way, I wouldn’t call the FoF a “rape factory” because I don’t believe that what Burton is doing is rape, as I said before.
You said: I urge you to describe the details of how burton’s recruits and maintains his harem to others who were not members and note their reaction. Then you might be able to empathize with Bruce and I…and the hundreds of others burton has RAPED.
I don’t know the details of Burton’s modus operandi, but your description here should be sufficient IMO. I do empathize with Bruce’s and your suffering (and the hundreds of others), even if I don’t think it was rape as you call it.
You said: Nobody enjoys being told they are in denial, and at the same time, I applaud and greatly appreciate your efforts.
There is a possibility that I’m in denial (you mentioned that it took you 20 years to process your experience and I left 2 years ago, besides the fact that I never had sex with Burton). Thank you for the support regarding my efforts, it encourages me to continue.
You said: The code that breaks burton’s spell is the truth.
Amen.
Warpage:
I felt the same inner conflict that a victim of molestation might feel-yes, the sensations were pleasurable, but ick, this doesn’t feel right emotionally; it was certainly not something I felt comfortable sharing with others at the time and there was a “gossip exercise” in full swing.
As I have posted before, if you are drunk, and have to urinate, and someone places their warm thigh over your groin under the pretense of “snuggling”…voilà, or shall I say, willy nilly, an erection will follow, whether there’s an attraction or not. It’s like saying to a young, inexperienced female molestation victim, “you got wet, so therefore you wanted it to happen.”
Alcohol and years of grooming were also involved.
Yes, I was breaking a taboo, but holy shit, what kind of person was I becoming if I had to service this man to be relieved of working out in the sun and rain for 10-12 hours a day, six days a week?
I was under the delusion that being invited to move into the Goethe Academy was a special privilege and initially I thought I was the only one.
Predatory behavior dictates that the perp must be patient and calculating until he has his victim cornered and believing there are no other choices.
Saying no didn’t seem like an option for me if I had nowhere else to go or no one to turn to; I was told that sex between a man and woman was “mechanical” with the underlying implication that this was not, however I never said yes either, I never sought sex with him, I just obeyed…just like everyone else did or they would be sidelined or kicked out.
I started to feel empowered in a way, having close contact with burton, trusted with this secret about him, but then I could tell he could just as easily dispense of me, that there were others.
The tipping point for me as I have previously stated, was when Miles had left as a matter of conscience, and I was introduced to two non-fourth way psychological concepts: Magical Thinking and Ideas of Reference, this broke the spell, freeing me from the delusion of being controlled by “c-influence”. I realized the FOF was an intellectual and emotional dead end and started planning my escape. I went off salary and moved away.
Cult Survivor:
I make the argument that it is Second Degree Rape (as opposed the molestation of a minor) because in a very real sense cult indoctrination renders the victim mentally incapacitated.
58. WhaleRider
You said: I make the argument that it is Second Degree Rape (as opposed the molestation of a minor) because in a very real sense cult indoctrination renders the victim mentally incapacitated.
I checked the definition of “second degree rape”:
I also checked “mentally incapacitated”:
I see your point about connecting cult indoctrination to mental incapacitation (“other causes which prevent sufficient understanding” on the definition above) but I feel it’s a stretch. Most likely it doesn’t hold in court, or Burton would be incarcerated by now.
I’m curious about what other people think.
59 Cult Survivor
There are many names, many definitions by which you can ‘catch’ someone in an action or even excuse an action.
The very fact that you brought up the incapacity theme – are not Burton’s victims groomed and seduced in a strange set of manoeuvres? We know Burton is helpless to lust.
I am beginning to get some understanding of WhaleRider, since he has been gracious enough to be honest and open with his relating his experiences There are attitudes that resurface from those years ago, in myself, which I wish to control now I am older.
60. warpage
You said: There are many names, many definitions by which you can ‘catch’ someone in an action or even excuse an action.
Yes, that’s exactly what lawyers do. I hope that here we don’t follow their example and have an honest exchange.
I just searched “fellowship of friends” on a browser I never used before (called Brave) and found the following results:
62.
A few years ago, Rowena, as the new “Dean of the Council,” began launching a number of new websites. I can’t remember them now, but one of them had endless articles about “4th Way” subjects written by the likes of D@vid T*uttle, W1ll1am P@ge, J0hn St*bbs, etc. The idea was to push this blog and other “negative” sites far down the search list.
Looks like Rowena failed, and failed badly. And now the momentum is clearly on the side of the truth, as the Burton Bubble comes ever closer to its ultimate demise.
63. Insider
Yes, I remember that. Here is an example of one of those sites:
https://bepresentfirst.com/
Apparently they stopped those marketing efforts in 2016 and lost momentum — now the momentum is “clearly on the side of the truth”, as you said.
“So if you want a picture of me in your mind, think of me as the man who spent, and continues to spend, his adult life (and whatever resources he can put together) pursing the knowledge and the practices that lead to the actualization of a consciousness that can exist without a physical body.”
Mr. Page, on his “credentials”. Apparently the above pursuit was the result of having been “almost killed twice” at age nineteen.
Wow. Well, he’s made the reasons for his search clear.
Beautiful-looking website.
https://bepresentfirst.com/about/
Cult Survivor:
“Most likely it doesn’t hold in court, or Burton would be incarcerated by now.”
…or he would settle out of court without admitting guilt, and silence his victims with large sums of money, or in my case, shame.
Why hasn’t Trump been incarcerated by now?
Give it some time to sink in. I’ve had more than 20 years.
66. WhaleRider
I will, I promise.
I would like to remind readers of a little Robert Earl Burton (REB) and Fellowship of Friends (FoF) history. Around the mid 1990s there was the Buzbee affair. That is when REB was having ‘coerced’ sex with the underaged male child of an FoF member. This seduction took some time and effort by REB to groom. (REB is smitten with boys and, if that is not available, then boyish looking older heterosexuals will have to do. (Narcissistic supply?)) When the father was seduced by REB, it became apparent to the father that his son might be having sex with REB, so he asked and found out.
Long story short, that scenario lead to a lawsuit against REB and FoF that was settled out-of-court, for a reported $5M (insurance paid for that, I believe), there was a gag order (or, the case was sealed) as part of the settlement. This latter part was necessary because there was possible criminal activity that took place, was perhaps documented (in evidence/testimony), and REB could have been in deep dodo, so to speak – could have come to the attention of the law enforcement people. REB escaped by the skin of his teeth, also, so to speak.
The then FoF attorney read REB the RIOT ACT, as a consequence. He told REB what exactly, legally, he could do, and not do, to avoid this happening again. That then became the standard operating procedure, going forward, and elaborate methods were then employed, as protection. That did not stop REB from pursuing the attorney’s own underaged first born male child with grooming for, whatever, whenever (I do not know the full details on that irony). This attorney eventually committed suicide.
The sperm conveyor belt, or sex factory, to satisfy REBs satyriasis, if you even could call it that because I do not know if there is a word for what REB does sexually with these people, had to go on.
If, as some have suggested here of late, being repulsed, there was a problem for these male members to be able to get it up, there were methods. Viagra, and other drugs, became available. REB already had Rxs for whatever he wanted from the physician(s) that were FoF member(s). To some extent, this represented medical and drug abuse (to be added to all the other abuses going on – what’s the difference?). (One FoF member physician even lost his license to practice (and a clinic in Oregon House closed) due to drug abuse issues (someone might even have died, consequentially.))
(And, Cult Survivor, some of these things were happening whilst you were an Fof member and living in Oregon House, if I am not mistaken.)
Hundreds, if not thousands, of men were thus sexually abused by REB over the approximate 50 years that FoF has existed. (As well as all the people who were near and dear to them.)
Now, do not misunderstand me here, there were, are, and will be, some men that enjoy this sort of thing and do it willingly, to REBs delight.
“On the other hand, through sex – where it is pure and unperverted – it is given to men and women to understand the greatest laws of the universe directly and, as it were, by birthright. By this force, if they respect it, they are enabled to discriminate between what is right for them and what is wrong for them. By this force, if they let it teach them, they may be led along the path of human development through all types towards perfection. By this force, if they keep all that is negative away from it, it is granted to them to taste for short moments and in one connexion those sensations of ecstasy and union, which are of the nature of higher consciousness.
By pure sex, the ordinary man may gain in a moment what the ascetic denies himself for years to achieve, what the saint prays for a lifetime to feel. But this only on condition that he approaches it already free from fear, from violence, and from greed. And on condition also that he does not afterwards deny what he learns in sex, but on the contrary allows the understanding attained in sex to pass into all other sides of his life, mellowing, harmonizing and enriching them also.”
Rodney Collin
Sex as the Quest for Perfection
THE THEORY OF CELESTIAL INFLUENCE
MAN, THE UNIVERSE, AND COSMIC MYSTERY
Pages 333-334, in some PDFs; or pages 311-312, in print.
Does this, above quote, sound like the kind of sex that is practiced by REB?
Whose fault is anything?
The Law of Karma states we attract things according to our nature.
I was young, naive and idealistic…ripe pickings for the FOF.
I can blame Burton, his enablers and all the others ‘cult entities’ for what happened to me.
On exiting, there was not an immediate sense of having escaped…many years of unraveling the dross from the useful IN ME brought me to a point where I could ‘look the world in the eye’.
I have learned to say ‘no’ to the harmful (to others and myself) and can take constructive criticism (I hate nagging).
Maybe WhaleRider should consider himself lucky he had a ‘useful self’ left.
Hey there. Haven’t been here for 3-4 years. I see that the few core guys are still hanging around. From what I know, the FOF is still there and as far as I know they eventually stayed unharmed by it’s ex-members’ rage.
A year ago I went into data mining business and I learned that resurfacing old data has very limited effect on the number of relevant surfers, especially when large text (that no one reads) is involved.
I hope you’re enjoying this. If are posting here because you are still angry about RB and the FOF…that’s really sad. They are not really worth storing anger for so many years.
69. WonderingWhosWatching
I was friends with Troy Buzbee and he was also my tennis teacher; we played a couple of tennis tournaments together. He was a normal person as far as I can tell, I didn’t notice any signs of rape or abuse.
Can I be in denial? Sure. Perhaps after several years, as Whalerider suggested, I’ll realize that Burton was raping young boys. Meanwhile I’ll stick to my experience and verifications.
Since It’s obvious at this point that I have a different opinion on this subject than several contributors here, I’ll rest my case.
71. Someone
I have the same feeling. Thank you, I feel less lonely now that I have “someone”.
71. Someone
I see you’re the same asshole you always were. Pat yourself on the back.
Look, I can accept that there is injustice in the world, but I certainly don’t have to be quiet about the particular injustice I suffered, especially if the fraudulent scam I fell prey continues.
Blame is not the issue here, the question is: who is responsible for the crime?
It is typical sociopathic behavior for the perp to exploit a weakness or gray area and then blame the “naive” victim for going down the dark alley.
However, the FOF doesn’t appear at all like a dark alley; it has shiny chandeliers, flowers, antique furniture, nice carpeting, and nicely dressed, smiling people who are also on the take lining the alley pointing the way, with a big neon ENLIGHTENMENT FOR SALE sign inviting unsuspecting, sincere individuals to join them in supporting the sexual predatory behavior of the guru enthroned at the alley’s narrowing dead end.
The alley is also specifically designed in such a way that to leave makes a person feel they are going backwards. There’s now even a well maintained cemetery there for those whom don’t make it out alive!
Someone:
I will point out to you that heroin addicts are so enthralled with their anesthetizing drug of choice that they do not feel they are harming themselves or their family either, or concerned about depleting their bank accounts, are likely to eventually prostitute themselves, and are happy to share their needles with anyone who will join them in the fog of their fool’s paradise.
Yet, who will a heroin addict likely trust more to warn them of the dangers of addiction, a former heroin addict or a person who has never used it?
**********
Hmmm….so did Someone just happen to wake up this morning and decide to pay a visit to the blog just to devalue us? That’s pretty sad too, don’t you think?
Or was it something else, some new web presence that you claim has no effect whatsoever that drove you here?
So somebody comes back to the blog after being absent for a few years, notices that the same people continue venting their anger towards Burton and the FoF, gives them the advice to move on because Burton and the FoF don’t deserve the anger and he is immediately attacked?
I’m starting to feel that some people are here just to express anger. I can understand that that could be healthy for a certain time after leaving the FoF, but why do that for years, decades after leaving the FoF?
May be I’m not the one that is in denial.
Yesterday my wife asked me, “Do you think that the blog is constructive?” and I replied, “No as it is today. It’s not a good source of information for people interested in joining then FoF, it’s not visited by current members, and the ex-members that contribute regularly use it as a channel to vent their negativity towards the FoF and Burton”. Then she asked me, “Why are you there then?” and I replied, “To be sincere I don’t know. I guess negativity is addictive. May be that’s why some people that left the FoF more than 30 years ago still contribute to the blog, some of them for more than a decade.”
69. WonderingWhosWatching – June 23, 2019
Yes, good point. And isn’t it thought that Rodney Collin may have committed suicide?
71. Someone – June 23, 2019
77. Cult Survivor – June 23, 2019
There is an old saying, “We see not what is, but we are.”
I do not agree with you two. This is a discussion. It is not by any means only people venting anger or even expressing only negativity regarding Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends. If you want to increase the diversity of your perspective here, re-write your own script. Try reading post number 3 on this page; that is what I see here, not just anger and negativity. Some may want to criticize others for what they feel or not feel. But I think it’s best to work on one’s self. Sure, each has their personality, but as rough edges rub, they soften. Look perhaps more for your own softness if things seem too rough.
Whoops! I meant to write this old saying:
“We see not what is, but what we are.”
75. Cult Survivor
You and someone seem to be a perfect match. Of course I’m assuming that you are not familiar with someone’s previous history of BS over the years here, so you’re just blowing it out your ass in ignorance. Not a first for you here.
I’m perfectly content in my life, and enjoy this blog for it’s usefulness, but when I see or hear bull shit I call it out. And if it’s especially egregious I also call out the moron who spouts it. I usually try to stay away from things I have no personal experience with, unlike newcomer assholes who often think they know what the fuck they’re talking about, such as your very first post suggesting how this blog should really be run and what should be posted.
Your vanity and narcissism are profound. I’ll guess you were a joy and a lark to be around, even in the fof, even as you are here.
78. Golden Veil
You said: “We see not what is, but what we are.”
I guess negativity is not only addictive — it’s contagious.
79. brucelevy
You said: Your vanity and narcissism are profound. I’ll guess you were a joy and a lark to be around, even in the fof, even as you are here.
It’s also a joy also to have you here, calling people “assholes”. I guess it’s my rebellion against the years of FoF indoctrination (refined language).
79. brucelevy
Regarding the vanity and narcissism, “We see not what is, but what we are.”
76. Cult Survivor (and Rowena grunt).
You blurted: “…it’s not visited by current members…”
How wrong you are. And how out of touch. Or just plain stupid. Without any doubt, this blog is being followed by any number of current members, which I know for an absolute fact, and is being monitored by various people in the highest positions of authority.
No matter how firm a person thinks their beliefs are, the more they look at the blog, the more it “works its way in,” even if they don’t notice it at first.
Where is your (mis)information coming from? Or, in the manner of your hero, that kind old man running a very nice place to hang out, Robert Earl Burton, do you just enjoy lying for the sake of it, and for the attention (especially if negative) it creates?
Here’s some advice for you, Mr. Know-it-All: Go back in. You both deserve each other.
82. Insider
Without any doubt, this blog is being followed by any number of current members, which I know for an absolute fact, and is being monitored by various people in the highest positions of authority.
Whatever makes you happy.
Here’s some advice for you, Mr. Know-it-All: Go back in. You both deserve each other.
No thanks, I’m fine where I am.
It’s obvious that the anger that some people feel towards Burton and the FoF is now turning against me (“Go back in. You both deserve each other”). I guess that if you are negative a real person is more useful than an organization and a leader that don’t give a shit. I’m taking a week off (may be more). Have fun.
84. Cult Survivor
Another mistake on your part. The negativity directed at you is solely because of who and what YOU are…completely apart from at least my feelings about RB. You’re a joke. And we are often visited by your ilk. We’ve seen it all before. You’re a sad, pathetic little weasel.
“A psychopath is born, a sociopath is made.”
Denial Exercise Remains In Effect
House of Cards, CA-Due to the increasing numbers of current followers seeking the truth, Robert E Burton, the helmsman of the sinking Fellowship of Friends cult in Northern California, has instructed his council to reiterate to all members that the denial exercise is still in full swing and must be obeyed despite all glaring evidence to the contrary.
“Everything is fine,” said Burton, “nobody is here against my will, and as you can plainly see, I never hurt anyone. In fact, my followers are smiling so much I had to put a stop to it.”
As a result of the several expensive lawsuits settled out of court and to cover for Burton’s missteps in the past, cult officials have made great efforts recruiting and trafficking Burton’s personal inner circle from among destitute individuals residing in Russia and Romania so desperate to leave their country that they will never complain about prostituting themselves like “petulant” Americans do.
When confronted by his past Burton is often heard chanting, “Alas, Alack, once you squeeze the toothpaste out, you can’t put it back”, his favorite quote from an unrepentant child molester, “just stay in the present and soon you’ll be in a Paradise like me.”
Responding to criticism from ex-followers that the exorbitant donations are in reality membership fees and that their non-profit status should be revoked since refusing to pay is grounds for dismissal, Burton stated, “They are just damaged machines angry at themselves for losing the school. It’s like getting advice from a broken toaster oven.”
84. Cult Survivor – June 23, 2019
Cult Survivor, as Bruce suggests, you are less the victim of others’ negativity than you are of your own dishonesty. You failed to earn the trust of participants here because, from your earliest posts (in this most recent incarnation) you have sought to mislead us. Your propensity for deception can be traced at least as far back as the “Wikipedia war” early in 2007 when you worked with Abraham Goldman to defend the Fellowship against the “evil blog.” Now that you are part of that blog, you seek to adapt it your own purposes (whatever they may be.)
From Bruce’s comment above, “A psychopath is born, a sociopath is made.” Perhaps, with more years apart from the Fellowship, you may further free yourself from the pathology that is normalized in Burton’s self-destructive world. Learning the truth about where we have been and what we were taught to believe (e.g. regarding “negativity”) may be the most difficult part of this process, but many, if not most, of us have tread a similar path.
I suspect most of us have come a long way to ‘recovery from the cult’.
I would say that entering old age should bring the wisdom of life to even those who had the pleasant, unpleasant or indifferent experience of a group built on lies, crime, power trips, greed and pure perversion that Burton The Butthole imposed from the top down (and I am not referring to sexual position, here!).
My reason for taking part here is to try to make sense of why I NEEDED TO JOIN IN THE FIRST PLACE and to see if a ‘thread of real life’ ran parallel to the financial stress, the fake people I met, along with more genuine folk who had more ‘common sense’ but still needed to use ‘work lingo’.
I am fairly sure that this blog could run ad infinitum and not say enough and in my alloted time on earth I will never fully answer the questions of the FOF that bother me.
In Other News…
Washington, DC– Tim Jaymmons, President and CEO of the National Association of Manufacturers, has issued a statement condemning the use of word “machine” by Robert E Burton, leader of the Fellowship of Friends and followers of the so-called “fourth way”, when referring to people.
“We strongly object to calling people “machines”. Not only it it demeaning to machines, it’s an insult to their creators,” Jaymmons stated.
He further stated, “Machines evolve, becoming smarter and more efficient by design, are manufactured to perfection, and selflessly do what they are supposed to do and nothing more. Human beings on the other hand are flawed by nature, refuse to be vaccinated against disease, fall off cliffs taking selfies, spontaneously regress in the service of their egos, generally have no clue of their purpose other than to seek pleasure and avoid pain, are unpredictable, subject to prejudice and confirmation bias, lazy, poison themselves with drugs and alcohol causing them to lie, cheat and steal, and have wrecked havoc on the environment that sustains them faster than machines can clean up after them. Driverless cars and trucks are now appearing on roads which will greatly lessen commute times by eliminating “rubber necking” and eliminate fatal car accidents caused by drunk drivers. In a matter of years, machines will surpass humans in intelligence and already have in strength and productivity. Soon your toaster oven will be your boss, and you won’t have to worry about your boss trying to get in your pants.”
The Fellowship was contacted by phone and refused to comment, citing executive privilege granted by some form of verifabricated disembodied higher authority, and a strange sequence of repetitive chanting was detected in the background.
Apparently, Burton was to have said that he did not want to be a teacher, but had to for the sake of his students. It seems ridiculous that he has taught them nothing of ‘wordly import’ save how to graciously fold their serviettes at dinner or how they might best ‘thrust the saveloy up his receiving passage’ to gain the greatest ecstatic state – for his Higher Centres, obviously.
If there were any teaching worth anything, it was lost in the first five years of the FOF. After that it was WINE, (use powerful/rich) WOMEN and WRONG (doing).
Whitman would have written “The Song of the Charlatan” for Burton.
I saw a post on facebook today from long-time, loyal FOF member Philippe B—-t explaining that, after 43 years in the Fellowship, he had been expelled by Robert. He was recently engaged to a young lady and Robert demanded that he end the relationship or be expelled and he refused. The post generated quite a few comments from current and former members. It will be interesting to see if this might ‘shake loose’ some of the current members, or at least make them ponder the possibility that they are in a cult ruled by a jealous, paranoid, demented queen.
#93 David B. said “It will be interesting to see if this might ‘shake loose’ some of the current members” That would be so good. Some of the recent posts have me thinking that for some who have been in for decades, there is the feeling there is nowhere else to go. I imagine them emerging, like the survivors of some weird mining disaster, blinking into the sunlight.
Always entertaining, the comings and goings of Fofers.
Poor old Philippe should have known it could happen any time, nobody is indispensable.
Cult Members Learn They Are Readily Expendable But Choose To Stay Anyway
Disposable House, CA-Members of the Fellowship of Friends “School of Love” cult in Northern California awoke last week to the disheartening news that yet another “long-time, loyal member, Philippe B—-t…after 43 years in the Fellowship…had been expelled” for “willful disregard of the teacher’s sexual needs”.
Apparently Phillipe’s wandering eyes had settled upon a member of the opposite sex and despite his strong feelings for the lucky lady, was asked by aging cult leader Robert E Burton to choose between following his bliss or continue living a depraved life of servitude to a sexual predator of young or youthful looking heterosexual men from other countries.
“I would have dumped her in an instant,” said one faithful follower who wished to remain anonymous for fear of being kicked out. “No woman is worth a new pair of Ferragamo shoes or a chance to service our great leader. I’m staying put.”
“I wouldn’t have given it a second thought”, said another ardent follower who also wished to remain anonymous because he was unauthorized to speak for himself. “I would never dream of putting Robert in that position. I’m going nowhere.”
“That is a good example for all of us,” said yet another follower who also wished to remain anonymous over concerns of being denounced by other followers for expressing his opinion, “Obviously Phillipe’s lower self is giving in to his base desires. Some people will do anything to be happy. I’m not going to budge in inch. Life out there is really scary.”
“Why would anyone want to make a life for themselves if the Fellowship provides them with everything they really don’t need,” a follower asked out of quiet desperation after taking a few wordless breaths. “Even though the odds are against me, I’ll take my chances here. Thinking for yourself is just too hard!”
(Congratulations Phillipe!)
I think some people here are confusing the messenger with the message. Cult Survivor gave us current information from the field—most of the men he knew and knows seem to be fine with the arrangement they have with Burton. Why are we shooting the messenger? I don’t think CS is claiming to know all the men who have relations with Burton, and seems quite clear he is reporting just their words, not guessing at whether they are exhibiting cognitive dissonance or any other internal turmoil.
I believe him when he says things have changed. They were changing at the time I left. When I joined, I was explicitly told that Burton was celibate, by no less than Peter Bishop, the ‘center director’ in London at the time. In 1995, he confessed to me that he had been lying, and moreover, that he, Peter, had an ongoing sexual relationship with Burton himself, at the very time that he had told me Burton was celibate. This was the milieu that Bruce and Whalerider were operating in, back in the 1970s. This is why this whole scheme was so hidden, why the secrecy and shame, this is why the ‘no gossip’ exercise was instigated; the average follower at that time would have never joined if they had known (IMHO).
But by the time I left in 1994, we had had a meeting where a bunch of people like Steven D. and Gunter W. got up in front of the audience and told us that they had received manifold blessings from having sex with Burton. Everything was out in the open, the whole thing was normalized. When fresh meat arrived at Renaissance, it had become normal for a handsome young man to be courted by an existing member of the harem over lunch at the Bistro, where what was expected was explained quite clearly. Maybe a few euphemisms, but the direction was clear.
So I can get where Cult Survivor might be coming from. Despite the huge psychological pressure on a new recruit, from present and former members of the harem, from his peers at large and new ‘friends’, and of course from Burton himself, it is relatively open compared to Bruce’s time. It has been partly transformed to a transactional interaction, that is, out–and–out prostitution, money and favors in return for sex. I’d be interested in knowing whether nowadays the setup is known in certain circles in Russia and eastern Europe, to the extent that people might actually be joining the Fellowship of Friends with foreknowledge and the explicit intention of joining Burton’s luxurious lifestyle, settling in the U.S., and the chance of a Green Card, or, in the case of females, in snagging a husband and a Green Card. Cult Survivor, could you shed light on this?
Another question, since I’m in the mood to be frank. In the 1970s, Burton was fucking men in the ass, as well as forcing them to fellate him. And he used force. One of Burton’s maids has described how she would find Brian S. on the floor of the ‘Blake Cottage’, groaning in pain after a session with Burton. She also had to regularly clean up blood and feces–stained underwear. Cult Survivor, do you know whether Burton still fucks men? Or is he just passive nowadays, that is, incapable of active penetration? In that case, there is a qualitative difference in the experiences of the young men over the decades.
My personal experience with having medical personnel examining my prostate, inserting instruments in my colon looking for polyps or tumors and so on, is that there are few things more painful (this includes breaking my leg and having it set without anesthetic), and, so I can imagine that being fucked by Burton would be more physically traumatic and negatively memorable than being fellated.
I could understand why the men CS talked to accept being fellated in return for the various rewards, that was obviously going on even in my day, and some of the boys I interviewed came right out and admitted it. But, Cult Survivor, you use the word, “lovers”. Do you think there is any love involved? Now, or ever?
Anyway, I want you to know that I personally value your input, and hope you continue to participate in the discussion. And thank you for your efforts to get the new Wiki page established!
Back briefly after an absence, going through this page of comments…
I also want to point out that the Philippe B. banishment episode has two parts. There is the part where Burton directly threatens PB—break off the relationship or you’re out. But there is also what amounts to taking a hostage, his affianced. If I understand the words on PB’s Facebook page correctly, Burton threatened his fiancée with spiritual damnation if he, PB, did not acquiesce. Burton really does wallow around in the darkest mire at the bottom of the cess pool, doesn’t he? This is no different than the mafia taking a hostage or Bolton threatening the family of Jose Bustani (then serving as the director general of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons) to persuade him to ‘make the right decision’ in the run–up to the Iraq war.
Another demonstration of Burton’s utter lack of conscience, and hence, consciousness.
Cult Survivor, your obliviousness, then and now, to the conditions of others, and/or other perspectives, bespeaks of your powers of perception and awareness. I knew you in person and your writing mostly mirrors your personal presence. There is a kind of arrogance that pervades. (Some others seem to agree.) Yet, still you are welcome here. Your efforts here, and elsewhere, to help reveal the hidden sides of the Fellowship of Friends (FoF) are worthwhile. The work on oneself does not end with departure from the FoF. Keep what is useful from the teaching and discard the rest.
I believe you had said that one of the positives of your FoF experience was that you appreciate(d) the quotations, so here are two, as a reminder:
“We need very strong ears to hear ourselves judged frankly, and because there are few who can endure frank criticism without being stung by it, those who venture to criticize us perform a remarkable act of friendship, for to undertake to wound or offend a man for his own good is to have a healthy love for him.”
Michel Eyquem De Montaigne
“There is no risk of forgetting my teaching if a man’s soul has once laid hold of it.”
Plato
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