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Fellowship Of Friends/Fourth Way School/Living Presence Discussion – Page 168 February 18, 2019

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Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Living Presence Discussion.

Here, you can share your thoughts, your stories, your own experiences as a former member of the FOF.  If you are considering becoming a member, you are invited to read the discussion to better know the organization you are considering joining; we welcome your questions. Participants in the discussion may post under their own name, or anonymously.

The first comment of all new participants will be moderated before they can start communicating in real-time.  You will need to register with a valid email address and be able to reply to the welcome/verification email you will receive. If you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear within a day after it has been submitted; any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, such as personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion anonymously will prompt a warning. Continued abuse will result in your removal from the discussion.

To visit the official site of The  Fellowship Of Friends;

http://livingpresence.com/

Comments

1. Ames Gilbert - February 18, 2019

I was reading through page 16 of the blog (lots of good stuff there from back in 2007!) and I came across this classic, from “Life Person”.
https://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-16/#comment-4335

IMHO it’s a perfect summary, so I’m going to post the whole darn thing instead as well as the link above. 
___________________________
After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what most amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to believe.
Once the emotional charge created by the resurgence of memories that had drifted around for decades dissipated somewhat, and I had for some weeks left off reading the blog, which seemed to perpetuate that charge, and then came back to it, I find myself stunned and incredulous.

Taking away those things that he has said about himself, and those things that others have said about him, and looking only at the evidence before us, we see a man who, before he announced himself as a Teacher, was most easily described as a loser. Fired from his modest teaching position, kicked out of his brief stint in an abusive cult for the most pedestrian reason–being unable to keep his hands off the other guys–living with his mommy or in his van long past the age when we’d expect a man to have a halfway decent job. A man with modest formal education from a white trash background, with the middle name of Earl. Had never accomplished anything of note. Cannot write, paint, dance, or sing. Oh yes–he could play tennis, at the level of the average high school varsity player.

A man who has since lived an entirely parasitic existence, having declined to lift a finger on his own behalf since he was thirty, beyond walking, sitting, lifting fork and glass, talking, and having sex; a man whose muscles have atrophied from disuse. A man who cannot be bothered to pay his own bills, or drive his own car, or fix his own faucet. Can you imagine your father, or your neighbor, let alone Socrates, telling people to do manual labor, including labor that benefits only himself, year after year, decade after decade, while he simply shuffles around in thousand–dollar slacks and five hundred–dollar shoes, without ever contributing anything? Jesus was a carpenter. Dante wrote fantastic works of literature. Leonardo painted masterpieces. Others make shoes, grow food. Here’s a man who jots down notes and sayings at the level of a precocious junior high schooler, and gives others instructions in between efforts to satisfy his physical urges. We find the model for this in, say, Henry VIII, or more accurately, a pinheaded, inbred pharaoh.
Here is a man who has not, in at least 37 years, and most likely in his entire life, had an intimate emotional relationship with another man, woman, cat or turtle that would be recognized by anyone as normal, let alone mature.

Whose “teachings” are almost entirely unoriginal, having been cobbled together, first from the works of Gurdjieff and his disciples, a little later from quotes copied like a lazy freshman from the Harvard Classics, and now from a hodgepodge of sources that does not rise to the level of solid “B Influence”–stuff that, thirty years ago, you wouldn’t have picked out of the trash, like Chariots of the Gods and Linda Goodman’s Sun Signs. He even tried his hand at National Enquirer–style prophecy, and was so spectacularly unsuccessful that he now claims he never meant any of it.

A man who fancies himself an aesthete, of impeccable taste, yet whose taste is classic nouveau riche, reflecting once again the lack of any originality, let alone artistic flair. Everything is copied, taken from others, like the pile of statues in the basement of Charles Foster Kane’s Xanadu. Who considers a Greek temple plopped down in the Sierra foothills very classy, and cannot see that it is pathetic kitsch, like Las Vegas casinos featuring recreations of pyramids and Venice.

In any other circumstance, this man would be considered ridiculous. A buffoon. Laughed at.
And this, of course, does not address a level of greed and financial manipulation that would seem eye–rollingly incredible in a made–for–TV–movie about a New Age Guru. Who would believe a character who did all the running after cufflinks, the wine–guzzling, the pouring of rich food down his gullet, the endless supply of suits, shirts, shoes, Rolls Royces and Mercedes, watches, paintings, furniture, and on and on and on, while continually demanding more money from his followers, some of whom make extraordinary sacrifices, destroy themselves financially, to keep the man in silk, cashmere, and the umpteenth performance of Giselle. We’d turn it off in disgust, exclaiming that the movie showed an obvious intent to slander all nontraditional religious organizations and make their adherents seem imbecilic.

And then there’s the fellow’s peculiar sexual habits, which also are no laughing matter. His need to have his various orifices continually filled, not by people with whom he shares a deep emotional bond, but by desperate or naive people he has cajoled with pathetic fairy tales, who hide their faces in shame as he grunts and pants before showing them the door and calling in the next one. People who carry the diseases he has passed on to them, and perhaps their partners, for the rest of their lives, along with the burning resentment and humiliation of having allowed themselves to be so callously and pitifully used by someone they trusted. This sort of behavior is generally accepted everywhere as demonstrating a profound emotional disturbance.

And none of this even touches on the man’s treatment of others when they’re not coming in his mouth, his disregard of what would be considered decent, principled behavior in any culture, under any ethical or religious creed. His complete lack of genuine interest in the well–being of anyone who does not give him, or procure for him, money or sex, his willingness to act, without regret, as though a person he has known for twenty years or more, a person who has given him everything they have, has never existed the moment the individual stops giving him money or sex.

But, I suppose, none of this precludes his being the Light of the World, the Greatest Being Since Christ, and worthy of the highest lifelong devotion. And why? Because he says he is “conscious.” So that’s what being “conscious” means, does it? How could I have missed it? But some say they have “verified” that he is “conscious.” Oh, that changes everything. For quite a while everyone on earth was convinced the world was flat.

“But he teaches people to be present.” Indeed. Being present to eating too much, drinking too much, having sex with people who don’t want to have sex with you. Present to enjoying the fruits of others’ labors. Present to the sycophantic bowing and scraping of people without any self–respect or discernment. He teaches, by example, how to be present to treating others like shit.

How to account for his success? If a person without any useful abilities of his own sat down and decided to develop a way to allow himself to have all the money, sex, food, travel, power, fancy clothes, adulation, and sheer self–indulgent luxury an adolescent could possibly imagine–if a man embarrassed by his own sexuality and humble social status wanted to be treated like a god–what might he come up with?

And why is it that so many people whose wisdom is so much more easily observed, who are truly kind and compassionate, who genuinely value others simply for their inherent humanity, who find delight in simple pleasures and do not need to be continually praised, obeyed, fucked, fed, entertained, clothed, and carted about, who enjoy being useful, who serve others instead of claiming to serve disembodied spirits while leaving a trail of pain in their wake–why is it that such people do not have as many people trying to learn from them?

Might it be that some people actually want what they see this man has, rather than true wisdom, true compassion?

Might it be that some people cannot bear the thought that what is so obvious might actually be the simple truth, which would make them gullible fools?

2. Cult Survivor - February 18, 2019

Another good one:

100. StrangerInAStrangeLand – January 12, 2018

Just discovered the Fourth Way and was looking for a school and a FB Fourth Way group told me there was a group close to me, I contacted them and had my first meeting …. was taken aback when at the end of the meeting it was announced with great flair that the group was part of FOF. This was after I was sternly told about the “rules” and that they wanted $150/month or 10% of my earnings to “join”. I wasn’t too happy about it. Then I went to the internet and found the “Be” (Asaf Braverman), didn’t know at the time of HIS FOF association, so joined that instead. Then he sent me a note …how did you hear about the Fourth Way …. I wrote back and said I was looking to study, but wanted to avoid any FOF controlled groups … never hear back of course! Looks like I’ve totally dodged a bullet on this one. I got some very distinct flashes of danger and thank everybody for posting this information about FOF on the internet where it can be found and assimilated before any damage has been done. I’ll read Ouspensky on my own. Gurdjieff is a bit hard to follow. Cheers!

Source:
https://fofdiscussion.wordpress.com/2017/09/17/fellowship-of-friendsfourth-way-schoolliving-presence-discussion-page-160/#comment-81604

3. Cult Survivor - February 18, 2019

I just found this review of the FOF on Yelp:

Charles S., San Francisco, CA, 4/14/2018

I was a member of this organization 36 years ago for six years. I’ve been aware of its “esoteric” (hidden or hiding) activities ever since I left. That the leader of this organization is an individual you don’t want your male children around is a given. That you don’t want your boyfriend or husband to be around him also is a given. If you’re a good-looking heterosexual male, and you don’t want to be “converted,” stay away. If you’re an average-looking homosexual male, there’s nothing here for you except what, below, I say you’ll find: enslavement/conformity. The “Teacher” has a prohibition against homosexuality (except whereas his own homosexual needs are concerned). Whoever you are, do​ your due diligence and research the hell out of this organization​​ and its leader on the Internet and in old and recent newspapers before you do any serious decision-making in trying to join and taking your orders from a sociopathic homosexual man who refers to himself as a goddess.

This organization is a pseudo-spiritual group of pseudo-psychological self-development but one of the most expensive cults in the world to join. I worked three jobs to afford the fees and paid $5,000 a year back in the day. It has an alluring surface-front but a slavish, nefarious underbelly, not unlike most cults if you’re objective. This cult and its leader have hurt and destroyed countless lives. Joining the group is a risk that has the potential for scarring you for life. That being said, there are many individuals in this organization who have been members for decades and are even grandparents now. That they remain inside a homo-pedophilic operation and don’t even try to leave is a major symptom of their mental and moral enslavement to the material seductions this cult and its leader offer: wine, theater, and music, with all the pretensions of owning or having “culture.” Instead of finding truth like a true seeker and a true sense of belonging, should you join, you shall find perversion, group-think, domination, corruption, and vanity. Hypocrisy, however, runs through every level of this group like an air-borne infection.

Source:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/fellowship-of-friends-oregon-house

4. Just the Facts Ma'am - February 18, 2019

If I may be so bold as to give a Fellowship of Friends meeting style angle, bear with me, as you may appreciate the ending:

In: Psychological Commentaries on the Teaching
of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky
by Maurice Nicoll, Volume 3, p. 1089, it says:

“‘The action of the Moon’ Gurdjieff said, in so many words, ‘is like a weight. It controls Organic Life, which covers the surface of the Earth as a sensitive film. It is like a weight on a pendulum. Its influence is to keep everything where and as it is. It uses Organic Life as its food. From this point of view life on Earth is a pain-factory.'”

The Fellowship of Friends, and particularly Robert Earl Burton, has seen to it that he has done everything he possibly can do to be sure that Life on Earth has been, and will continue to be, “a pain-factory.”

However, if you wake-up, all bets are off.

5. jess - February 18, 2019

John Harmer
Ames Gilbert

IT DOES MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!!!!

I am taking the stance that most bloggers are still on a ‘spiritual journey’…that there is this ‘something’ that we are after. It may be worthwhile demolishing the FOF in words but its final demise is already written in stone.

Ames does not seem to recount his ‘prescribed journey’. John has some leaning towards Buddhism and Christopher Hitchens. Personally, I find Buddhism (The Endles Path – You Cannot Have Being And Not Being – Whitman states “Always life, always inception”) a practical doctrine that can lead you, in simple steps, to a worthy life.

I studied Hitchens on YouTube videos…as an atheist, he is forceful yet, ultimately, sarcastic and one-dimensional. He believes that this life leads to physical and psychical extinction. Also, he drank and smoked too much, leading to his oesophogal cancer.

Ames is geographically close to headquarters and probably has friends on which he can call for inside information. We must value what he studies for and unearths in his pursuit of truth surrounding the FOF.

If we are to continue in our quest for worthiness, maybe we should hark back to a speech, well-worn by FOF ‘activists’, yet totally understood by many. Life and afterlife are in the balance yet we know not what each holds…..

Speech: “To be, or not to be, that is the question”

BY WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE

(from Hamlet, spoken by Hamlet)

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: ’tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there’s the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th’oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of dispriz’d love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th’unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere’d country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.

6. knoti - February 18, 2019

Thanks for the repost of “life Person”. It is a very good account of what I experienced.

7. jess - February 18, 2019

1. Ames Gilbert

Many thanks for posting that excerpt…another ‘nail in Burton’s coffin’.

We are, as they say, on a roll.

8. rich - February 18, 2019

In FOF opinions like “all these GreekoRomanRanasauce stuff
is too gad”. I mean students would jump on you en mass
with photos like tramp-lunatic lead alchemy…..

9. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 18, 2019

Conscience: Cringing to the point of a nervous breakdown when you fully accept responsibility for ever having been a part of the Fellowship of Friends-Burton cult.

(The Altruistic Dictionary)

10. fofblogmoderator - February 18, 2019

Post #4 was hung in moderation

11. truthorconsequences44 - February 18, 2019

4. Just the Facts Ma’am
Regarding Mr. G’s theory that organic life on earth is food for the moon:
One wonders what Mr. G would have to say about this idea today, with humanity now having so much more scientific knowledge about the universe and the multitudinous galaxies, suns, planets and moons, dark matter, black holes, etc? His theory doesn’t intellectually resonate for me given the vast number of moons orbiting the even vaster number of planets within just our Milky Way, particularly when almost no planets (thus far seen) appear to have the elements necessary to support organic life in a form that we can imagine.

I also find this theory to be disturbingly similar to the Christian concepts of heaven, purgatory and hell, and the whole Zoroastrian, dualistic cosmology, with its orders of spiritual hierarchies and fear-based control mechanisms. Much of the unnecessary suffering of the world is the result of tribal allegiances to these types of religious beliefs.

At the very least, the theory that ‘organic life on earth is food for the moon’ remains totally theoretical for me, as I see no method for verifying this while still being within this life form on planet earth. Thus, IMO this is a useless and probably harmful construct of the mind, so why not just throw it in the trash or spam folder and then delete it!

12. rich - February 18, 2019

Interesting page, including FOF comments:

http://www.john-shirley.com/blog/?p=2073

13. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 18, 2019

12. rich

John Shirley is a lifelong Gurdjieff Foundation member (is my understanding) which I can personally assure you from direct experience is a deranged cult. They are as cult weird and cult sneaky as anyone else.

In my opinion.

***

4. Just the Facts Ma’am

“Moreover, in relation to organic life the moon is a huge electromagnet. If the action of the electromagnet were suddenly to stop, organic life would crumble to nothing.” -Gurdjieff (ISOTM)

The moon is not an electromagnet. It has almost no magnetic field at all. Gurdjieff is based on pseudo-science.

14. Ames Gilbert - February 18, 2019

Rich, thanks for the reminder.

One pertinent paragraph, after he demolishes the Burtons and the rest of the faux Fourth Way groups.
“There’s a reasonably coherent Fourth Way school, in which the original current flows, the one Gurdjieff’s student Jeanne de Salzmann created at his behest: the Gurdjieff Foundation. Also called by other names in other countries. It’s all volunteer, no one makes money off it, no one gets paid. It’s neither big nor small. Few are admitted to it; no one’s life is interfered with; no one is kept from leaving, or even urged not to leave it. It’s an esoteric school. Really, its methods are more or less similar to Vipassana Buddhism, with an admixture of hermeticism. It’s not far from Zen, either, really. It’s not terribly easy to find that school. . .”

Whatever else one might think about them, I’d say that if anyone reading this has the impulse to join a serious Fourth Way group, try them first.

If you can find them…
…and if they accept you.

Since I’m on the subject, one offshoot of the Fellowship of Friends that seems safe to explore (not a recommendation, just my opinion, so don’t you all jump on me) is that of Theodore Nottingham.

I have a few memories of him, and combining them together with those of my wife, they are:
One of the hardest–working guys at Apollo, took the Work very, very seriously, had wrist supports so he could carry on working in the vineyard all day, every day. Very good–looking, in retrospect bound to attract Burton’s attention. This was in the days when most still believed that Burton was celibate, and saved all his sexual energies so he could better serve his students and the Ark.

One day, he just upped and disappeared…
Now it turns out, after many decades and many adventures, he is an ordained priest (pastor) in England. Still believes the Fourth Way and that ‘super efforts’ are the answer. Has written a dozen books. If you dig around, you will find references to his stay in the FoF, and his conclusion that it is a hoax led by a criminal.

So, Lark Ascending, you can see that I try to be fair, but even more importantly, truthful as I see the truth.
(Also, you never answered my question: given that Asaf Braverman learned ‘everything’ about a running a cult at Burton’s knee over two decades, how can he possibly escape following in his mentor’s footsteps as he implies he is ‘conscious’ and manifests his version of a ‘school?)

15. Ames Gilbert - February 19, 2019

Some of Solartype’s words remind me of one thing that struck me from time to time during my sojourn in the Fellowship of Friends, which was the determination of some followers to achieve ‘consciousness’ at all costs.
In hindsight, I can see that Ouspensky’s oft–quoted words, “When you have an aim, then what is opposed to your aim or takes you away from it is wrong, and what helps your aim is right”, which when taken out of context, permit people like Burton or Horn or Solartype to steamroll over any and all obstacles, including other humans ‘getting in their way’, as they push towards their dream of achieving “consciousness”.

Bearing that in mind, it seems to me more than likely a certain kind of follower would quickly proceed to the idea that ‘the ends justifies the means’, especially when the leader of the group, Robert Earl Burton, sets the example, and at the same time, deprecates conscience. Obviously, such a ‘teacher’ can provide no guidance because he is, amazingly, unaware of the fact that, the ends shape the means.

And of course, messages from one’s conscience are ignored as mere irritants, as is the suffering of fellow humans—such as those who Solartype reduced and casually cast aside with a trite phrase, as being “all adults and responsible for their choices”.

IMHO there are born psychopaths, people who have no conscience/empathy by birth. However normal people can become ponerized, meaning they take on psychopathological traits through habituation and conditioning, trying to adapt to a pathological group that has lost the capacity to perceive pathological individuals as such. It means that the person or group can no longer make the distinction between healthy and pathological thought processes and logic. One is no longer able to draw a line between correct thinking and deviate thinking. Genetic psychopaths make up somewhere between 2 to 6 % of humanity, while ponerization obviously runs at a much higher percentage.

The governance/transmission of authority within the FoF can best be described as a pathocracy, that is, a totalitarian form of government in which absolute spiritual and political power is held by a psychopath. His effect on his followers is such that the entire group is ruled and motivated by purely pathological values.
I’m defining psychopathy as a personality disorder described by personality traits such as being without conscience and being incapable of empathy, guilt, or loyalty to anyone but oneself.

The governance of the next layers, members of the Board, Fellowship Council, leaders of ‘octaves’, fundraising, and so on, are exactly the same, just in a minor key. Burton is very careful to choose lieutenants in his own image, he will brook no dissent, so their number one qualification is to be able to say, speedily and with utmost conviction, “Yes, Robert!”, and then carry out his orders to the letter. Lower levels, the ‘sergeants’, are reflections of the lieutenants, and so on.

My take is that everyone who has been a member of the Fellowship and has lived in Oregon House for a year or more is fully ponerized. Members of distant ‘centers’, especially outside the U.S., maybe a bit longer. This means, IMO, that to leave the cult takes more than ordinary effort and more than ordinary ruthless self–observation, and a more than ordinary desire to start facing up to the unvarnished truth of one’s situation. And that may be one factor in why it takes so long to withdraw after the first doubts set in, it was certainly so in my case—upstanding follower for eight years, then increasing doubts, but another eight years to actually leave…

Want to know more about psychopaths? And ponerology? Here are some good resources to start with:
• Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski (print versions for some reason are very expensive (latest edition $120 or thereabouts), but you can download the Kindle version for a mere $9.99 from Amazon. Well worth studying, IMO)
• Without Conscience by Robert D. Hare, Ph.D.
• The Mask of Sanity by Hervey Cleckley
• The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, Ph.D.
• Snakes in Suits by Paul Babiak & Robert D. Hare, Ph.D
• Women Who Love Psychopaths by Sandra L. Brown, M.A.
• Defense Against the Psychopath – documentary, look for it on YouTube

16. rich - February 19, 2019

13. Four Days of the Fourth State:

Not surprise John Shirley would give the nod to his own
group, the Gurdjieff Foundation….

17. Ames Gilbert - February 19, 2019

Above, #15, should be: Obviously, such a ‘teacher’ can provide no guidance because he is, amazingly, unaware of the fact that, the means shape the ends.

FDFS (#13), you have direct experience of the Gurdjieff Foundation?
I based my take on what I could find rooting around the ‘net.
If you have the time, could you briefly tell us what you found out, and why you came to the conclusions you did? And how long did you stay? And apart from the ‘weird and sneaky’, did you come across coercion of any kind?
Second–hand impressions would be a lot more valuable than my third– or fourth–hand impressions.

Thanks, I’d genuinely appreciate another viewpoint.

18. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 19, 2019

Yes, I have direct personal experience with the Gurdjieff Foundation. I’d have to go through some processing before I dug that all back up and published it. Although I was a member far shorter than in the FOF, the sour taste of the experience seems more acute. You can find them by simply doing a Google search. They will accept anyone. It takes as much as a year of meeting a representative before being allowed to attend regular meetings. Which are entirely anticlimactic. The level of magical thinking is the same as in any cult of self-appointed elite believers.

Believe me they’ve got group psychopathy going on there.

***

Watched the Youtube on psychopaths. Obama is a psychopath? The man broke down and cried during the Sandy Hook tragedy. No empathy in him?

The tone and cadence of the narrator seemed psychopathic and manipulative.

19. Ames Gilbert - February 19, 2019

Now that Solartype has exited the scene, here is my take, for what it is worth, which isn’t much. As far as I can tell, she (one of those fabled Man #6s) is promoting a passive, dissociative attitude toward life, a certain nihilistic abdication of personal responsibility, especially towards the state of the world at large, which, of course, she emphasizes over and over is merely “illusion.” So basically, as I understand it, her credo as a Man #6 is, “I need do nothing.” And once again, she makes it crystal clear that she is beyond considerations of conscience.

It would be interesting if one of the Man #5s so abundant in the Fellowship of Friends would step forward and tell us their view about conscience, since Solartype asserts that for them it is still necessary and active. How do they deal with the criminal activities of their leader, guide and mentor, Robert Earl Burton?

Here are a couple more quotes from the fabled Ouspensky on the subject:
“You see, an inevitable part of the process of self-development is the awakening of conscience, and the awakening of conscience will prevent any possibility of using new powers for any wrong aim or purpose This must be definitely understood from the very beginning, because conscience, when it awakes, will not allow one to do anything selfish or contrary to other people’s interests, or harmful to anybody”.

“Ultimately, only an awakened Conscience can distinguish between the true and the false both within ourselves and in the world – and waking up our innate Conscience, and keeping it awake, is the main task and the primary aim of any school. In fact, only when Conscience is awake can our aim become emotional and gain the necessary power to actually move us from where we are.”

Solartype’s posts are mostly a bunch of unsupported assertions with no supporting evidence at all, unverifiable and rife with circular reasoning. Again, I wonder why she bothered to post here. Advertising? Gloating? Virtue signaling? But if so, who would she be signaling to? Those few followers in the FoF who break the rules and read this blog anyway?

But I thank her for her contributions, sincerely, and suggest any readers who are thinking of joining the Fellowship of Friends look over them carefully, and draw their own conclusions.
And to bear in mind that Asaf Braverman is also theoretically a ‘Man #5 or #6’. I wonder if Solartype and her peers agree with that? Probably not, since Burton relegated Asaf to the back of the line…

20. jess - February 19, 2019

It may be a Gurdjieff phrase – “Remorse of conscience”.

For me, this means an atonement for the way things have been, the way I have acted. At present, it means using my role as an adult education teacher, volunteering with disadvantaged people.

When we realize how much we have been given DESPITE OUR MISCONDUCT we understand we cannot be selfish – giving of ourselves seems the only way through. And in that lies freedom to be ourselves (in a true way – not the pathological political constraints of a cult).

21. brucelevy - February 19, 2019

19. Ames Gilbert

Your description of Solartype sure reminds me of Linda
.

22. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 19, 2019

Energy.

All these cults talk about the energy glowing in the environment where they congregate. This wondrous energy is simply the emotive magical thinking psychopathy glowing on the faces of a group of lunatics.

Do you get it? Do you FEEL it? Are you PRESENT to our higher vibrations? Yes? Congratulations, you’re one of the very few psychopaths the mystical invisible forces have chosen to flourish with us in the astral plane after you finally keel over and choke out.

To the naive seekers roaming around looking for trouble: Identify the weird and off side of yourself, the miraculous-worshiping nutty side of yourself that you imagine makes you somehow different and special. Now, if you find yourself in a room full of people all flushed in the face with the same nutty side glowing out of their eyes obviously experiencing complete self-satisfaction then get up and run like hell.

Go have beer in a bar. Channel your inner ordinary. Read a book about science.

23. Ames Gilbert - February 19, 2019

As a bookend to my comments on the Solartype saga, I recall that another person, called “William” posted on an off–shoot of this blog.

William wrote, in 2008, that the Fellowship of Friends had already produced four conscious beings, of which he was one. He also stated that one was a woman.
Here is his first post:
“There were four people I knew who had become conscious. They were all very close to the same age, early to mid twenties. All this occured  [sic]  in the middle to late 70’s. Those four people were the inner circle of the school. The only ones who knew they were in the circle were themselves and the teacher. All the other fellow students assumed that the inner circle was comprised of people who sat at the front of the meetings with Robert. Not so. Ironically, the LAST person to wake up in the four was the only one who ever sat at the front with Robert, on several occasions.”

…and later:
“But I’ll reiterate. There were four such people, one of whom was a woman. Of the four, only one of them ever sat at the front during large meetings. The other three NEVER did. And NONE of the regulars who sat at the front were ever part of the inner circle. The inner circle is something one gets into because of SOMETHING THEY KNOW that no one else knows. And once you know this something, it’s absolutely transparent to you who else also knows it. Nothing needs to be said at all. One look and it’s quite apparent.”

Tim at the REB blog gathered that and subsequent related posts here:
https://robertearlburton.blogspot.com/2008/10/william-and-four-conscious-beings.html

BTW, Solartype finished off her last with words she ascribed to Eckhart Tolle, whose works have also been (mis)used by other members of the FoF as bait (as in bait–and–switch to the Robert Earl Burton religion). Surely she recalls that Burton banned the reading of and any mention of Eckhart Tolle as another ‘B–Influence’ virus, way back in 2005 or thereabouts? That the Fellowship Council sent out e-mails with these instructions to all members?
I guess associating oneself or one’s organization with Eckhart Tole comes under the heading of ‘intentional insincerity’, part of the ‘ends justifies the means’ package of thought–forms…

Bruce (#21), I wouldn’t be surprised if Solartype turns out to be Linda.
But if she is, I’m sure “William” would disagree with her view of herself, as he continues:
“Any bad experiences I had in the school always came from student robots, people trying to whip me into line. Which I simply refused to do because I was there for me, not them. Most of these robots had dead eyes. Especially that Linda  [Linda Kaplan]  character. Good Lord. When that place in San Francisco burned to the ground  [Kaplan’s fire – January 4, 1979] , I took it as an omen for her, since her last name was the same as the store. She was such a fraud. And she had the eyes of a swine.”

I quote this last paragraph not to denigrate Linda, but to point out that these are the words of “William”, a self–described ‘conscious being’, compassionate and of course, oh–so–sensitive to omens … and frauds…

Oh, lordy lord!

24. Ames Gilbert - February 20, 2019

FDFS, we’ll have to agree to disagree about Obama.
I haven’t seen the video of him shedding a tear, but I’ll take you word for it.

Hey, I’ll see your teaspoon of tears and raise you goddamn lakes of tears—and blood—for the hundreds of thousands he has killed in his wars of choice, the millions he has displaced and made refugees.

Yeah, President Drone, who met every Tuesday for years, to choose the names offered to him on the ‘kill list’ and so condemned people all round the world (including U.S. citizens) to death, acting as judge, jury and executioner all in one.
Etc., etc, et–fucking–cetera.

Just another ‘snake in a suit’, IMHO, and a fine example of one who rose to the very top, like turds in a cesspool. The ‘exceptional’ leader of the ‘exceptional’ nation, now shaking down his grateful corporate constituents for a billion dollars to memorialize his ‘exceptional’ accomplishments in an ‘exceptional’ library on land stolen from a public park on the Chicago waterfront by his exceptionally good friend, Rahm Emmanuel—another snake in a suit.

Not that I’m picking him out in particular, every president who has run a war of choice is a war criminal and by definition, a psychopath, in my opinion. But you used him as an example of empathy…

25. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 20, 2019

26. Ames Gilbert - February 20, 2019

Thanks for posting the video, FDFS, I was too lazy to go looking for myself.

Maybe Obama was ponerized. Maybe he was a decent person at some time, but absorbed the traits of his psychopathic aides and advisors, and such behaviors became normalized for him. I mean, after 17 years of the ‘Waw on Tewwah’ the majority of the U.S. public seems to have normalized unending wars all over the planet, the U.S. role of ‘policeman, bully and enforcer’ for the planet, the imposing of ‘our values’ and ‘democracy at the point of a gun’. The millions of dead and displaced civilians as a result of his decisions and actions are just ‘collateral’ damage. They are less than us, they are non–humans, they are not individuals with hopes, dreams, aspirations, families, loved and loving—not like us.

And his empathy for banksters, Wall Street bigwigs, CEOs and their families (and their standard of living) is legendary!

I’ll let you have the last word, I’m not supposed to do politics here, after all!
But studying the Fellowship of Friends and their Maximum Leader is a good clue to how power and projection of power actually also works in the larger society, so not totally unworthwhile or irrelevant, IMO.

27. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 20, 2019

24. Ames Gilbert

To oppose war unconditionally is an unrealistic and naive state of opinion. Humans are war making animals by genetic inheritance. The problem with pacifists is that they are so easy to kill unless killers agree to protect them. The reality outside the boundaries of well policed third world refuges, such as you live in, is what it has always been throughout history: kill or be killed. This is why you and nearly 8 billion humans exist on this planet at the expense of other life forms. Humans kill to live. In the safety of the country you have borrowed as your home there are very few serious mass causality attacks because intelligence services supply the president information about people around the world plotting to kill us here in our homes and places of business. When George Bush Jr. chose to ignore such warnings from the FBI and CIA 3,000 people were killed in New York City. Obama did what a competent leader has to do, kill hostile plotting people before they kill us. It’s a nasty business and failure to act means our enemies kill us first.

Welcome to America.

28. Ames Gilbert - February 20, 2019

Now for some humor. If you are conventionally religious and a Catholic, please skip this ‘fake news with a bite’.
From The Onion:
https://www.theonion.com/pope-spends-afternoon-filling-in-glory-holes-all-over-s-1832756030?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=&utm_term=
• Pope Spends Afternoon Filling In Glory Holes All Over St. Peter’s Basilica
… complete with a great ‘digitally enhanced’ photo…

Other headlines on the same page:
• Pope Francis: ‘Jesus—I Get Molesting Kids, but Nuns Too?’
• Pope Promises More Open, Transparent Molestation in Future

29. Cult Survivor - February 21, 2019

I started working on a draft of the Wikipedia article on the Fellowship of Friends. Here is the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:UltraEdit/sandbox

Let me know what you think. Also, you are welcome to edit the draft since it’s a “sandbox”, not the final article. I had the aim to keep the article short and to the point, since the previous article that was deleted was fairly long. We have to remember that WIkipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog…

My plan is to start editing articles about destructive cults, then submit the draft of the FOF article to an experienced editor for suggestions and finally publish the article (estimated time frame: 2-3 weeks).

Since the original article was deleted in 2010 (see link below), it’s necessary for the Wikipedia admin that deleted the article to give his approval for the article to be published. The issue is that that person (his name is Cirt) left Wikipedia in 2016 so another admin would have to give the authorization. I’ll keep you posted.

FOF Wikipedia article deletion log:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Fellowship_of_Friends_(2nd_nomination)

30. jess - February 21, 2019

29. Cult Survivor

That seems like an excellent start – concise and meaningful.

31. jess - February 21, 2019

For those interested…..

A medical expert (Nepalese Buddhist by being raised) talked to me at great length about God-Consciousness…he emphasized the fact of Coming Near to Unity where one overcomes divisiveness and a separation from others …thus leading to compassion and empathy…it struck me that This State was in no way Homogenous by nature nor part of Group Identity.

It took me a while to overcome the fact that Solartype Enterprises wrote in gooey grammatical and emphatic terms in their posts such that the persuasiveness (and it was that way intended, I am sure) was at the forefront…however, the sheer lack of cohesive sense and dangling the ‘glittering prizes’ of WHAT THEY THOUGHT, OR DESCRIBED AS, consciousness was actually an FOF ‘produit-entire’, really did not mean much in the grand scheme of cosmology.

Most folk have much to take care of in their usual days that something like the video subtitled “The warm breeze and tinkling chimes make presence so, well, ooh! you know! gooey like Robert” is a disgusting pile of crap…I am sure most sane people would agree?

32. Golden Veil - February 21, 2019

29. Cult Survivor – February 21, 2019

I think your article looks like a pretty good start. I wouldn’t worry about getting an “administrator.” Remember they are all volunteers just like you, but some just have more experience.

Good idea to set this aside and edit other articles. You can even make grammar corrections.

You could use something like this link as a footnote for your first sentence and the section titled Organization:

https://nonprofitlocator.org/organizations/ca/oregon-house/237233321-fellowship-of-friends-incorporated

You could really use some more references; more than four would be better. Is there anybody out there that can suggest more references to Cult Survivor?

I think that it’s really important that you completely eliminate material like the section on Payment for which you have no footnotes.

Let what you can document guide what you present.

Be sure to especially comb the Robert Earl Burton blog for more references.

I think that there are some books out there that mention the Fellowship of Friends.

Also, since it doesn’t read like a vanity piece for the Fellowship of Friends, I think that it would be a good idea to draw a little material from Robert Burton’s latest book. See if you could find something in it to quote. You can read part of it here, or maybe some of the participants on this site that have the book can suggest a few quotes. Click on “Look Inside” above the picture of the book.

https://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Years-Angels-September-1967/dp/1948296446

33. WhaleRider - February 21, 2019

“Survivors of clerical abuse, their advocates and faithful disheartened and disgusted by the failure to address the abuses are demanding that the church enshrine in Canon Law a policy of zero tolerance for abusive priests and the bishops who cover for them.“

~NY Times, “Pope Francis Opens Summit on Sexual Abuse: ‘Hear the Cry of the Little Ones’” 2/21/19

Ditto that for the FOF.

Imagine the public outcry if the Catholic Church used the same tone deaf justifications that feckless followers like solar type use to buffer, condone and cover for their predatory cult leader’s sexual exploitation and abuse of power in his institutionalized, gold plated rape factory.

There would be no Catholic Church.

What makes burton think paradise is full of people who lack a conscience, who only think of themselves and not of others?

The answer is simple: grandiose burton and his narcissistic followers operate within a shared, airtight delusional system.

Not so rare, actually…in an insane asylum.

34. Ames Gilbert - February 21, 2019

FDFS (#27),
heh, heh, heh, I like your deadpan sense of humor. A penetrating parody of the effects of ponerization on the citizens of the U.S. And you managed to include an example of the “ends justifies the means” thinking I’ve been droning on about these last few pages. And the sneaky aside about the U.S. being a “third–world country”—as it is in so many ways—yikes!

Getting the point across with a nice light touch… thanks.

35. Ames Gilbert - February 21, 2019

Lark Ascending,
Just to show that I’m an equal–opportunity offender, I present you with another group that has come to my attention. Also big on predictions, omens, signs and wonders. No less than the imminent coming of the Messiah, complete with numerological ‘proof’! Excerpts below. Full article in English at:
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/120689/airstrike-syria-israeli-elections/

Maybe this Rabbi Kanievsky is picking up on the conscious energies emanating from Asaf Braverman? They do have a similar reliance on numerology, signs and keying …
___________

Messianic Process Began with IAF Airstrike in Syria, Will End With Israeli Elections
April 9, 2019

By Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz
January 22, 2019

Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, one of the most prominent rabbis of this generation, made a shocking statement, claiming that the Messiah will precede the upcoming Israeli elections. Several rabbis noted that the writing is on the wall and the signs that the process leading up to the Messiah has already begun…for those who have the eyes to see it.

Rabbi Yekutiel Fish, an expert in Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) gave a lesson this week in which he discussed how the Messiah was imminent. Rabbi Fish cited Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, one of the most prominent Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) rabbis of this generation, who began foretelling the arrival of the Messiah just a few years ago.

“It is written that in the days leading up to the Messiah, tzaddikim (righteous men) will begin to announce his arrival but some people, those who have not prepared for His arrival, will laugh at the righteous and the learned,” Rabbi Fish said, warning that it is forbidden to mock the righteous.

Fish emphasized that Kanievsky was especially suited for presaging the arrival of the Messiah. Not only is Rabbi Kanievsky one of the most learned and righteous Jews alive today, there is another indication of his connection to the Moshiach (Messiah). Rabbi Kanievsky’s full given-name is Shmaryahu Yosef Chaim ben (the son of) Miriam. Rabbi Fish noted that first letters of each of Rabbi Kanievsky’s Hebrew names can be rearranged to spell “Moshiach.”

… (snip)

Eight days ago, Rabbi Fish predicted that the blood moon lunar eclipse that passed over the continental U.S. on Sunday would be a significant omen, even more so because it coincided with the Jewish holiday of Tu B’Shevat.

“It is true that Rabbi Kanievsky has been saying the Moshiach is imminent for a few years, but that is not really very long when we are speaking about the Messiah,” Rabbi Fish said. “And every time, Rabbi Kanievsky speaks in different terms, describing a different aspect of the process,” he added.

… (snip)

Rabbi Kanievsky’s statement was also discussed by Rabbi Matityahu Glazerson, an expert in Torah codes, in a recent video. Using a Torah program that searches for equidistant letter sequences in the Bible, Rabbi Glazerson did a search for relevant expressions concerning Kanievsky’s announcement. He noted that the term “יבוא משיח” (the Messiah will come) appears once in Leviticus 23 adjacent to the letters “תשעט” signifying the current Hebrew year, 5779.

The rabbi also noted that included in the table was the word “מפורים” (from Purim). The holiday of Purim will fall on March 21 this year, three and a half weeks before the Israeli elections.
____________

I will refrain from commentary, except to note that Adam Berkowitz, the writer of this piece, is himself an ordained rabbi, presently a settler on the Golan heights with wife and five children, so has a certain (ahem) inside knowledge and authority—Ames

36. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 21, 2019

35. Ames Gilbert

And the sneaky aside about the U.S. being a “third–world country”—as it is in so many ways—yikes!

***

I misspoke. Meant to say first-world country. We live inside a first-world bubble where we can afford to insist war is unnecessary because war very rarely penetrates into our personal lives. For the U.S. as a nation war is necessary because many other nations and cultures want to kill us.

One of the reasons other cultures of the world want to kill us is because we are so wealthy and have so much free time for ourselves that we dedicate entire parks to the pastime of smacking a little white ball around using various weighted titanium clubs that cost $2,000. Hungry people with malnourished children see this kind of thing on the pages of the magazines we ship to their country for disposal, pages they use for toilet paper, and they become so enraged at American frivolity that they send suicide killers to punish us in the name of God.

Anyway, yes President Obama waged war. That is a president’s job in the modern world. That does not make Obama a psychopath, which he is certainly isn’t. Anyone who works his way up to the pentacle of power is going to have something hardened and likely corrupted about his character, but Barack Obama is an empathetic human.

No, I’ve never met him.

37. jess - February 21, 2019

34. Whalerider

This question may sound insensitive, although I suspect many others would wish to ask it, to obtain some ‘psychological keying’ as to the relationship between a sexual predator and their victim. I will ask the question first, then preamble my reasoning for asking…

WHAT IS IT, OR AT WHAT POINT, DOES A VICTIM ACTUALLY GIVE IN TO THE GROOMING AND SEXUAL ADVANCES/ACTUAL SEXUAL ACTS OF A PREDATOR?

The preamble here is that I have perhaps, half a dozen times, forced myself on women (usually while both of us were in a drunken state) and twice this resulted in actual intercourse. Also, there were two others times when homosexual advances were made towards me – again with no sexual intercourse, heavy petting or french-kissing..

This is not to say I am judgemental of homosexuality – I cannot ‘fathom the biomechanics of attraction’. Again, I can find a man handsome, yet not entertain notions of raiding his behind. I have had many gay friends – we agree on some things, but not others (one of them being the promiscuous nature being more prevalent among gays).

It is probably trite to say…

“Well, you at least escaped”.
“Can you see Robert as a victim, himself, to his impulses?”.
“The culture and friendship were worth the victimization”.
“C influence also took you out of the school”.

I am not sure this is the first time this question has been asked. It is, however, the first time I have had ‘ears to hear’.

Thank you.

38. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 21, 2019

36. Four Days of the Fourth State

“pinnacle of power”

“which he certainly isn’t.”

Before someone makes something out of the mistakes

39. Ames Gilbert - February 21, 2019

Cult Survivor, thanks for your hard work on resuscitating the Fellowship of Friends Wiki page.

Golden Veil, the standards of ‘reliably independent sources’ seem to be set unreasonably high, IMO, so I need help to understand what this means in practical terms.

Would references to court documents involving Burton and the FoF, that ‘anyone’ can check out, qualify?
What about newspaper articles written about them over the years? Print only, or web?
And if these don’t suffice, why do quotes from some book make the grade? Again, print only or do e–books qualify?

What about notarized declarations and documents?

What is the standard for references to internet sites?
I can understand editors being a bit wary, because they are so easy to set up, and they come and go—but then Wikipedia is an internet site, and if it doesn’t match the description of ‘changeable’ and ‘unreliable’, I don’t know what would!

Please, don’t spend much time on this, but if you can share your experience, this might help Cult Survivor and anyone else who might want to contribute to a stable Wiki page on the Fellowship.

–––––––––––––––––––––––

Jess, look, if I were you, I wouldn’t confess to actions like, “I forced myself on women” on any website, ever. Drunk or not, this is rape. Look up the term, ‘sexual dimorphism’ for just one reason why; you are a hefty male, if you need reminding.
In case you didn’t know, authorities can easily find you, and you live in a country that will jail you for much lesser offences, even the wrong kind of tweets.

And I know you were asking Whalerider, but yes, Burton forcing himself on male heterosexual followers after drunken ‘Symposiums’ is rape, for a number of excellent reasons, IMHO.

40. Golden Veil - February 21, 2019

39. Ames Gilbert – February 21, 2019

Ames, I’m so glad that you brought up internet accessible court documents, etc. “that anyone can check out.” If you can provide some links here for Cult Survivor, that would be great.

Yes, the bar for credibility is set rather high by Wikipedia. Hearsay is not allowed at all and blogs such as this one, the Robert Earl Burton blog, and the Rick Ross and Steve Hassan blogs, and also podcasts – would not be considered credible sources – but as I wrote before, these blogs may all be good sources for Cult Survivor’s research; they may find material; that leads to credible, third party sources.

Newspapers are excellent. It would be great, though, if someone can suggest more than the two articles Cult Survivor has already been depending on. Not all sources need to available online – but online sources are more easily verifiable and preferred. Published books and e books may be referenced that are by cult researchers, and scholars – and even books by Robert Earl Burton and Girard Haven, but as I wrote before above, the article should not read as a promotion or vanity page for the subject. Clearly that is not a problem in Cult Survivor’s article!

Currently Cult Survivor’s article has an undocumented Payment section that must be removed – unless they can get a reference for those claims.

Please see the many more details about writing a Wikipedia article in my posts 122 – 124 and 128 that are on the previous page here, 167.

See also:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources

How to make footnotes and insert and document sources on Wikipedia:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources

Ames, If you have any sections you could contribute to the article, why not just post them here, with your source. By the way, I think that video interviews could be sourced (I have used some myself) – but only if they were archived at a university or library collection (that somehow deems them credible!)

41. WhaleRider - February 21, 2019

Ames:
“Jess, look, if I were you, I wouldn’t confess to actions like, “I forced myself on women” on any website, ever. Drunk or not, this is rape.”

How about this instead:

Jess, if I were you, I would find those two women and apologize for your actions, whether you were both drunk or not. Maybe they will forgive you.

Can you feel the difference?

Jess:
burton only forced himself on me once, in Milan, Italy.

In my experience his style of predatory behavior is slow, calculated and methodical. Essentially, his seduction of me took five years.

The first time put me in a state of shock and happened in the middle of the night after a long day at work, drinking wine, and under the pretense of “snuggling”. I was afraid more than anything else.

I lied on my back next to him and he draped his thigh over my groin until I got an erection, which is an unconscious, involuntary response, no matter who does it. There was no sexual attraction to him on my part.

Isolated from my family and friends by design, I was in a vulnerable state at the time, my so-called “evolution”, living quarters, and livelihood dependent upon some one else’s opinion of me.

I did not possess the ego strength to resist, having become depersonalized through daily use of alcohol (starting with free wine at lunch), long hours of work, the promise of European travel, sleep deprivation, and the cult indoctrination of “you are not your body”, “you are with an angel, now”, etc.

Does that answer your question?

When I read your post I got off at the wrong bus stop it affected me so. You are asking me to relive something that haunts me to this day. Seems like no big deal to most, but remember people did die at their own hands in the FOF. There have been serious consequences as a result of burton’s behavior and the stressful demands he places upon his followers, both financially and psychologically.

Sure, I see burton as a victim of his impulses, and if he were held accountable, found guilty, and incarcerated, I would still want him to be treated as humanely as possible, like any other criminal.

Not only did I escape either by divine providence or my own self-regard, in addition to my gratitude for leaving, I now feel it is my moral duty to warn unsuspecting and vulnerable others.

I believe the style of relationships fostered in the FOF cult are unhealthy and not worth burton’s sexual exploitation.

Ok, I might feel differently if it enabled me to escape from the likes of putin’s russia today, especially if I somehow believed those were my only two choices: stay in russia or join a cult. Maybe others can speak to that.

42. Ames Gilbert - February 21, 2019

Sure, Whalerider, I can feel the difference.
Yet, your version is not the message or the tone I wished to impart.
So, I’ll stick with the original. And though you addressed your alternative phrasing to me, I hope Jess will also try out the advice contained therein.

43. jess - February 21, 2019

Confucius say “Venus fly-trap grow many side-shooots”. It was not idle curiosity on my part – something dormant requiring addressing. Fully addressed, thank you (both?). Now having two clean Criminal Record Checks and knowing ‘I cannot cum when not wanted’ my behavior is dependent on warm invitation by women (not that it is prevailng behavior in my life)..

44. Cult Survivor - February 22, 2019

THE MODUS OPERANDI OF A SEXUAL PREDATOR

Below is a description of Burton’s current modus operandi (MO) based on my personal experience and conversations I had with a couple of close friends that became Burton’s victims.

1. Burton chooses the victim, an heterosexual young male from a third world country, typically poor regions in Russia, Ukraine, Romania, and sometimes Latin America. Burton knows that the chance that a humble family from a third-world country will sue him or the FOF is slim (but not zero, more about that at the end).

2. Arrangements are made for he victim to travel to Apollo. The victim’s airfare and his visa are arranged by the FOF.

3. Shortly after the victim arrives at Apollo, Burton asks an assistant to invite the victim to a “wine cellar dinner”. When the victim arrives at the event Burton greets him effusively, usually kissing him on the forehead and on the lips.

4. Burton assistants tell the waiters to make sure the victim is served a copious amount of alcohol during the event. Burton gives the victim a great deal of attention for him to feel “special”.

5. After the event, Burton tells an assistant to take the victim to his bedroom. When he is alone with the victim, Burton tells him that “Influence C” wants him to be intimate with Burton, usually because of a “shock” that Burton received previously.

6. Burton tries to touch the body of the victim; if the victim tries to resist Burton tells him that the part that doesn’t want to be intimate with Burton is “the instinctive center and feminine dominance”, i. e., the “lower self”.

7. Burton manually stimulates the penis of the victim in order to get an erection and performs oral sex until the victim ejaculates.

8. After the first encounter, Burton asks an assistant to invite the victim to travel with him. During the trip, Burton gives a great deal of attention to the victim.

9. Burton has sexual intercourse with the victim during the trip. This way, Burton makes sure that his assistants will act as “counselors” if the victim gets cold feet or has a crisis after having sex with Burton.

10. When sexual intercourse occurs, Burton plays a passive role (he is a “bottom” during anal sex). Burton knows that it is easier for the victim — an heterosexual male — to consent to play an active role (“top”) than a passive one (“bottom”) during anal sex.

11. After the trip, Burton either invites the victim to move to the Galleria or asks an assistant to call the victim at his home to go to the Galleria 2 to 3 times per week for sexual intercourse.

12. The sexual abuse from Burton continues for a long period — often years — independently of the victim starting a romantic relationship or even getting married. During that time, Burton often sends gifts to the victim, tells the victim that he is “his favorite” and regularly asks the victim to sit next to him at events for the victim to feel “special”. The abuse usually ends when the victim moves back to his country because his visa expired or after developing psychological issues.

As a last note, I feel it is important to mention that in the case of the Troy Buzbee lawsuit, Burton departed from his MO when he sexually abused Troy and his father, both US citizens. Considering that that happened in 1996 and that to my knowledge there haven’t been any sexual abuse law suits in USA against Burton or the FOF after that, we can conclude that Burton learned the lesson and limited his sexual abuse to victims from third world countries. That would explain what was reported here: The real reason why Burton hasn’t traveled to Europe for more than a decade is not his decaying health — the real reason is that there is an arrest warrant against him in the European Union.

45. jess - February 22, 2019

46. WhaleRider - February 22, 2019

To anyone whom might be arriving here for the first time:

Just to clarify, the person currently posting as Jess has stated here by his own admission that he has in the past suffered from mental illness and was drunk at the time, either of which do not in any manner whatsoever justify “forcing himself” upon women which resulted in at least two occasions in sexual intercourse.

I personally find those actions despicable and reprehensible, no matter what words are used to describe them.

I agree with Ames that Jess’s repulsive description of those events is tantamount to date rape, and my heart respectfully goes out to his victims if the sex was indeed non-consensual. I can certianly empathize.

Let me be clear that I have spoken to Ames privately and he has vehemently denied that it was his intention to provide advice to Jess or any other male reading this blog of what not to say when verbally portraying his two date rapes in a public forum in order to escape or avoid possible consequences or prosecution, which was how I and others sensitive to this issue read his post to Jess.

Although I seriously doubt that Jess is currently in danger of repeating his offense or facing possible jail time, as a consequence of his admitted behavior of which he has neither denied nor blamed his victims, I believe he should at least apologize and seek to make amends to his victims, as I believe burton should do.

burton, on the other hand, is a serial rapist, sexual predator and should be jailed, along with those who support, deny, or justify his abhorrent behavior and human trafficking.

Although many of the posters here and burton’s victims are male, I know I speak for all of us when I say that we encourage and welcome female participation and support the #MeToo, #BalanceTonPorc (Out your pig) Movements.

47. jess - February 22, 2019

46. Whalerider

(46 is Valentino Rossi in MotoGP, nicknamed “The Doctor”)

Funny thing – your vehement attitude caused me to think about the events with the two women as ‘going past making a pass’ to actual carnal knowledge. Brief facts…

Both women were in the Fellowship and known to have severe drinking problems (so did I in California). Both had the chief feature of tramp.

The first and only sexual act with the first was at a teaching house while she was visiting. I wrote a poem to her later and we conversed by cards and mail. I moved to her centre and was warned by the other residents where I was staying not to be emotionally naive about how she was acting, or would act. It turns out she had fiound a ‘life-person’ person with which to ‘be sporty’ and have carnal knowledge. She was a completely different person, dressed in Victorian demure suits at meetings than the leggings and Spandex top with fluorescent bandana, seen mountain-biking through the town with her ‘mate’. I have no idea where she is now – in or out of FOF – and feel no need to apologize, since mine was a sincerely meant follow-up to an ‘amorous accident’.

The second woman had power and vanity as follow-up features. She would invite people to snuggle up under the covers with plenty of alcohol in her double bed – although she had a long-distance relationship with a foreigner at Renaissance. One night, it was just she and me, and of course – fondle went further and she decided to try ‘woman on top’ (the empowerment of women, or some such piffle), leading to my penis sliding out and her pounding down on it so hard while unsheathed in her private parts (maybe she came from a military family?) that my erection was lost. A few evenings on, say for two weeks, and it became clear that something in her nature was out for instinctive revenge and she would do things like park in my car port, find extra ‘octaves’ for me to do and generally be more overpowering than she was before. I decided leaving this quasi-teaching house was best option. I know for a fact this woman is dead and buried in the cult cemetery.

Whalerider – if you sincerely believe those two women deserve apologies, find them for me and I will do it. If Ames thinks along the lines of rapist encounters, well, who is to stop the God of the Blog?

In my life, I have made more enemies than friends and have had less than average ‘sex time’ – the Lotharios I have known about rarely get past first date and are ‘illustrious’ by gossip then shunned by women who are actually emotionally harmed – maybe also physically – they are mysoginists to the hilt and actually despise women – my rich appreciation for women has grown from ‘tickle-and-squirt in my 20s to the Uranus come around of sexual appreciation – 40 year cycle – read Rodney Collin. It is enough to offer a woman a compliment on her dress sense to feel Kundalini surge and swell. Dating, or even conversing on subjects with women of substance and integrity builds YOUR CHARACTER ALSO.

I have purposefully been vulnerable for that is strength. I have purposefully stated that I have gone beyond my 20s (ask Ames at what age he was silly and uncaring with women!). The trouble is – too many ex-FOFfers seem to want to be ‘pure de la pure’ on this blog. We all know the FOFfers themselves want look ‘holier than thou’ – that is crumbling beyond recognotion, I would say.

Burton borrowed this “The only thing for certain is change”. You and Ames can judge me. At present I am email dating a police woman who is interested that I stay safe in the community – Type 1, rapid-cycling, events-related bipolar affective disorder is difficult to medicate and even more difficult for which to apply remedies for ‘triggers’ leading to ‘snowballing’

Think you can live my life? Just one word – PUSSIES!

48. brucelevy - February 22, 2019

47. jess

You’re a creep. And I’m pretty sure which creep you are from your last paragraph, though I suspected it all along.

49. Ames Gilbert - February 22, 2019

Jess and Whalerider, you both persist in misunderstanding. I advised Jess to not use such phrases on any website, ever, because there could be grave consequences. I have no idea if Jess was telling the truth or if it was exaggeration for effect. But authorities can easily find the reality behind a screen name.

I can only take anyone’s WORDS on the screen at face value. Anything else is second–guessing, and I don’t have the time or inclination.

Jess, you say you are dating a policewoman. Why not pass your words by her before you post? She might be able to save you from yourself. In a country where a single tweet has just landed someone in jail for two years and with draconian laws about offending just about anyone, she will probably have a pretty good idea of what would pass muster.

Just to make it absolutely clear to you, your country does NOT have the equivalent of the U.S. First Amendment.

Also, I have no control whatsoever over this blog, it belongs to fofblogmoderator, and we are his guests.

50. jess - February 22, 2019

Bruce (pair of) Levis

Usual, one-liner, put downs – get a vocabulary – could be the Talmud/Kabalah for all I care. (Do you have a hetero relationship just for the sake of having a relationship?)

Ames

“Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free” – Big JC … and, by the way, it was nowhere near rape, even though you and Whalerider collude on this.

51. Cult Survivor - February 22, 2019

How do I contact somebody directly here (private messaging)?

52. Ames Gilbert - February 22, 2019

Um, Whalerider, you don’t speak for me when you say, “I know I speak for all of us when I say that we encourage and welcome female participation and support the #MeToo, #BalanceTonPorc (Out your pig) Movements.” For a start, this is the first I had ever heard of the #BalanceTonPorc movement, so I could hardly support it. But let’s say, for practical purposes right now, it is the French version of #MeToo.

I support what I consider to be the ‘ideal’ or ‘impulse’ behind those movements, and the desire to empower women in the patriarchy. But I don’t support some of the puritanical ‘witch hunts’ that have ensued. And I use the words ‘puritanical’ and ‘witch hunts’ deliberately. The way I see it, mass movements have the unfortunate characteristic of attracting (of course) those who want power, who want to politicize things in the worst possible sense (so glory is reflected on them), and a tendency towards the lowest common denominator. So, they deviate from the ideal.

But anyway, my point is, you don’t speak for me.

53. WhaleRider - February 22, 2019

Cult Survivor:
To speak with someone privately, send your email to the fofblogmoderator at: nogurus@yahoo.com, and when he has the time, he will forward the email to whomever you wish.

54. Cult Survivor - February 23, 2019

53. WhaleRider

Thank you, will do.

55. WhaleRider - February 23, 2019

Movement = Change
…which in human terms tends to always be three steps forward, one step back.

How many times have we deviated on this blog?

Yet we persist, we move on…thankfully, with our shared ideals of empowering burton’s victims, calling out injustice, and draining the victim pool, despite our movement for change being labeled a puritanical witch hunt by FOF enablers.

I am here to empathize with victims, not perpetrators, that’s what #metoo, #balancetonporc are about, and one of the reasons I post anonymously to diffuse the argument that I’m here seeking glory.

The truth speaks for itself.

56. jess - February 23, 2019

55. WhaleRider

Movement = Change

flirtation

Dictionary result for flirtation

/fləːˈteɪʃn/

noun

behaviour that demonstrates a playful sexual attraction to someone.
“Fabia was in no mood for his light-hearted flirtation”

synonyms: coquetry, teasing, trifling, toying, dalliance, philandering, romantic advances;

More

a short or casual relationship.

plural noun: flirtations

“she had had plenty of flirtations—now she had fallen in love”

a short period of casual experimentation with or interest in a particular idea or activity.

“his brief flirtation with the avant-garde in the 1920s”

(#metoo and #BalanceMonPorc fight with bare knuckles and are very -ist. How about we wipe out sex altogether and play robots without creative energy?)

I seem to think that, if you have grown older and matured (and no longer live in sex-sodden CA) you would acknowledge womanlyness and their keen common sense without needing ‘gittin’ yer weyhey’. It worked for me or do you and Ames differ and/or disagree?

57. Ames Gilbert - February 23, 2019

Jess, any link between Whalerider and me is mostly in your imagination, so just lay off.
WR e-mailed me totally out of the blue and was critical about my post and this episode. I’m not going to share that, he would of course want to keep his side private. But I am at liberty to share my reply, which was:
Hello,
you are way out of line.
Moreover, I did not give NHP advice on how to protect himself from scrutiny. I informed him of possible consequences of his WORDS. I have no idea if he is telling the truth or not. Read the post again.
I did not hire you as a counselor. Maybe NHP hired you, I don’t know. But if you have not met him personally and taken him through whatever methodologies you use for a clinical diagnosis, then you are ‘diagnosing at a distance’, which is professional misconduct.
Please do not contact me again outside the blog. On the blog, you can say what you like, of course.
Ames Gilbert

So, that is the entire extent of the ‘collusion’ that you have fervently imagined.

Frankly, Jess, my inclination is to tell you to just fuck off, but I’ll desist.

Why you think it necessary to (again) share details of your sex life on a blog that is called, “Fellowship of Friends Discussion”, I have no idea. I have even less idea why you used the words, “I forced myself on women” on the blog to begin with. You are finally showing a bit of sense by back–peddling, o.k., I understand that. But I for one am deeply uninterested in this blog turning into the “Jess” show, following so many other “XXX shows” under other pseudonyms in the past, which have led to you being banned.

Please. Stop. Now.

58. Ames Gilbert - February 23, 2019

So, the Catholic church has at long last started taking seriously the abuse by priests of not only children, but seminarians and women religious (such as nuns). Finally!

But, according to a study out from Baylor University, the abuse by priests across all denominations of adult women congregants is also prevalent, maybe much more so than children.

––––––––––––––––

“There’s been some media attention following allegations that Theodore McCarrick sexually harassed and abused seminarians, as well as Pope Francis’s recent acknowledgement that some priests and bishops have abused women religious. And the #MeToo movement has led to a deeper public understanding of how abusers exploit their power to coerce their victims.”

“Research at Baylor University shows that clergy sexual abuse of women is common across denominations, and that it’s devastating because of the religious status that clergy hold. The major study found that 3.1 percent of the 3,559 women surveyed reported that they had been the target of clergy sexual misconduct at some time in their adult lives (often by married clergy). That meant 1 in 33 women who had attended services within the past month reported that she’d at some point been the object of a religious leader’s sexual advances. The principal author of the study, the late Diana R. Garland, wrote elsewhere that it appears clergy sexual abuse of women is more prevalent than clergy sexual abuse of children. “

“Research at Baylor University shows that clergy sexual abuse of women is common across denominations, and that it’s devastating because of the religious status that clergy hold. The major study found that 3.1 percent of the 3,559 women surveyed reported that they had been the target of clergy sexual misconduct at some time in their adult lives (often by married clergy). That meant 1 in 33 women who had attended services within the past month reported that she’d at some point been the object of a religious leader’s sexual advances. The principal author of the study, the late Diana R. Garland, wrote elsewhere that it appears clergy sexual abuse of women is more prevalent than clergy sexual abuse of children.”

“The Baylor research is cited in a thoughtful fifty-six-page report that a task force of the Episcopal Church’s Diocese of San Diego issued last November. Offering many specific proposals, the report takes on responsibility (“Bishops, as successors to the apostles, hold a particular responsibility”); accountability, and transparency (“In an era in which it is increasingly understood that openness and transparency promote accountability, there is very little transparency into this diocese’s record of response to incidents of clergy sexual misconduct, both historic and recent”).”

“Professor David K. Pooler, who has continued Garland’s work at Baylor by surveying 280 women survivors of clergy sexual abuse, has put together “A Guide to Best Practices” on how to prevent abuse and help those who’ve been victimized. “Critically, they will need to clearly understand the power structure in their organizations,” it says. “Survivors interviewed for this study agreed that appropriate power sharing can help make congregations safer. Thus, many of the best practices are embedded in a philosophy of shared governance, mutual respect, and conversation between congregants and church leaders.”

The excerpts above come from the full article at:
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/redefining-whos-vulnerable

And there are some practical proposals to help both prevent abuse in the first place and also help victims (I hope the embedded link in the last paragraph works, there is valuable advice in this guide).

59. jess - February 23, 2019

Ames

Sounds quite funny, if I interpret your post quite correctly…

A Consultant Psychiatric Victim Counsellor.

Was I insane to be in rthe FOF?
Did I oscillate wildly until Cymru?
Now that the best CPN and PCSO (that is the one I was talking about) are working with me to keep the ABPD straight as a dye, why do things I thought were people being obvious go titzup?

By the way, with line 3 above, you may have realized I swerve from angry retorts. these days…the wonders of strong-willed, principled women.

By the way…sorry about grouping you with WR…I do parallel your good schooling.

60. Cult Survivor - February 23, 2019

It’s very tempting to engage in arguments with other people on online blogs — it is all over the internet. In my opinion that is related to the fact that we think that there is an audience watching the argument attentively so our vanity and ego get very excited.

To be honest, I don’t care who forced himself on who, who is diagnosing who, who supports #metoo or not, etc. Really, guys, I don’t give a shit (and I can assure that people that come here because they googled “Fellowship of Friends” don’t give a shit either). Basically, I’m saying that there is no “audience”, so let’s concentrate on the purpose of this blog: To inform people that that Fellowship of Friends is a cult and Robert Earl Burton is a sexual predator.

If the arguments continue I’ll just take a break until people get tired, as they always do.

61. brucelevy - February 23, 2019

Jess (Nigel) you need to get your meds adjusted, or just just get back on them. You, as usual, become obnoxious very quickly.

62. Cult Survivor - February 24, 2019

Oh, I see, Jess is Nigel. It’s all explained now. You see, I became familiar with the characters of the blog while collecting material for my FOF YouTube channel. Nigel, Messages from Marconi, Robert Stolzle, Shard of Oblivion, Cathie L. , Paul Gregory, Jomopinata, Barbara, Linda Jo, Ron Brisson, Tempus Fugit, Fee fi fo fum,… I know them all now. It’s like the fabric of the blog.

Ames Gilbert, brucelevy, Whale Rider and Golden Veil seem to be the veterans (I apologize if I’m forgetting somebody). How long has it been guys? 13 years? Amazing. I wonder how many thousands of people didn’t join the FOF and how many hundreds left because of this blog and Tim’s REB site… A remarkable accomplishment I must say.

Well, I believe the end is near. Robert Burton is almost 80 and in the early stages of dementia — may be no so early, “California may fall during this meeting, do we know where the exits are?” — and is functioning on stimulants and caffeine (he orders quad espressos at Starbucks I was told, yes that’s four shots) and Asaf Braverman’s FOF copycat “online school” will not last too long because of his lack of charisma (you can’t become a cult leader, you have to be born one).

Who is organizing the party when the Old Prophet ends his task? Let’s rent the Miners Foundry in Nevada City and have a blast!

63. WhaleRider - February 24, 2019

Thank you for the nod, Cult Survivor. . And a shout out to Ton2u, Associated Press, Just the facts m’am, Opus, Insider, and Wouldn’t you like to know!

A little acknowledgement for our efforts goes a long way. I appreciate that.

You make a good point about the tiresome bickering…which you may notice in past pages often occurs after a proponent of the FOF posts and then abruptly disappears.

So in order to stay the course, if anyone, in the FOF or out, takes issue with any of my posts and would like to reach out in private via the fofblogmoderator nogurus@yahoo.com to express their feelings or thoughts to me, I promise to keep our conversations private and confidential, and I expect the same respect and courtesy in return.

64. Cult Survivor - February 24, 2019

You are welcome, WhaleRider. I was not kidding about the party by the way.

Your suggestion of dealing with personal issues in private is very wise. The ego needs an audience, as I suggested before.

In my opinion, the reason that this blog has been active for so many years is because the ego doesn’t get too much food here. In my case, for example, I find it very difficult to be vain for joining a cult and staying for almost 30 years.

65. Ames Gilbert - February 24, 2019

A few of you may have wondered, “What happened to that Epstein fellow, the billionaire that was accused of having sex with hundreds of underage children, who supposedly procured them for sex vacations in the Caribbean for his buddies, folks like Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton. You know, the one organizing what the tabloids called, ‘The Lolita Express’”?

Reporters at the Miami Herald wondered why as well, and started digging again. And it turns out that he had a powerful friend, the then U.S. attorney in Miami (a political appointment)—now the present–day Secretary of labor in Trump’s cabinet, Alexander Acosta. Another political appointment by his friends in high places.
This is a sickening story about powerful men protecting each other, and the betrayal of hundreds of underage girls:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html

When you read the story, make careful note that Acosta broke federal law by not notifying the victims about this agreement before the meeting with the judge! And, under the U.S. ‘justice’ system, there is no recourse.

And why did Acosta do this enormous, gigantic favor? Why, he went to law school with Epstein’s lawyer! This formed an imperishable, sacrosanct bond, apparently.
Look at Acosta’s picture: another snake in a suit, if there ever was one. Reminds me of some Fellowship lawyers I have known.

Not entirely unrelated, I remember ‘back in my day’ how the Fellowship of Friends gave regular lavish dinners and tours of the winery to the local big–wigs, such as the owner of the Appeal–Democrat newspaper. I’m sure nothing untoward happened™, but this is an illustration of how influence is gained. Favors here, favors there, and maybe an editorial decision to tone down or squash a story follows, or to not bother to look into a report of domestic violence up there in the foothills, so far away from the center of things in Marysville…

Ditto with wining and dining and charming the local supervisor(s), a bottle of wine or olive oil at Christmas, all these little things are remembered, even if subliminally, when it comes to making decisions that affect the Fellowship of Friends.

––––––––––––

We are all partial to our own interpretations of events, but the way I see it, many ‘flare-ups’ on this blog occur when NHP decides to insert himself again under yet another guise. He discerns we need to raise the moral tone of the blog, so starts off with quantities of videos and songs and poems and passages from movies for our benefit, and then inevitably on to the sharing of his medical, legal and sexual history so vital for our enlightenment—which, of course, invites pushback.

66. Shard Oblivion - February 24, 2019

#62 Thanks for the name check Cult Survivor. We can all do our little bit to warn potential victims of the realities that lurk within the FoF. Here is another little except from the phone call I made to Burton in 1989, trying to see if he had ever had any doubts about the true source of his messages from influence C – he displays a staggering lack of insight.

67. WhaleRider - February 24, 2019

As a brief side note, I distinctly remember the toxic weed killer RoundUp was used in the Cult Vineyard for a period of time back in the early-mid 1980’s.

It left a brown ring of dead weeds at the base of the grape vines.

If any past or present vineyard workers or residents have contracted non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma…they, their spouses, or their estates may want to seek legal advice in order to receive compensation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/08/10/health/monsanto-johnson-trial-verdict/index.html

68. Ames Gilbert - February 24, 2019

Anyone following up on the Miami Herald story, please watch the videos. Particularly the testimony of Virginia Roberts. This is one brave woman! She talks about how she was recruited, how she was persuaded to recruit other under–age girls, how she escaped to Australia and made a fresh start, how a decade later Epstein and his lawyers demanded her silence, how the FBI contacted her, and her mission now to see this all through.

There are so many parallels with the Fellowship of Friends. The recruitment of vulnerable or desperate young men. The way young men already ‘in the know’ recruited new fresh meat. I saw this happen many times, where the already initiated invited prospective prey to a nice lunch at the Bistro as part of the ‘grooming’. The pipeline of procurers and pimps, a pipeline eventually extended all the way back to Russia, eastern Europe, south America…

And others were involved in the grooming. In my day (1978), Burton somehow persuaded Sheila Grunwaldt that it was her duty to instruct potential victims about what was expected when Burton issued a certain kind of invitation. Yes, <B that</B nice well–groomed ‘older student’ with silver hair, who had a special gravitas because she had been with him from near the beginning (follower #29, ooh!). Burton told me to ‘arrange a breakfast with Sheila’ several times, and was miffed when I repeatedly said that I’d forgotten or could not arrange a mutually convenient time. Although, as I have said previously, I had no idea what was actually going on, the refusal was because I was repelled by Sheila as a person, and her unbelievable bad breath in particular. Petty, I know, but it helped save me. It was half a dozen more years before I discovered what ‘breakfast with Sheila’ really meant…

The liberal application of money and gifts (and in the case of the FoF, prestige). The liberal application of money for lawyers when things went wrong. The pressure on witnesses (I’ve told previously about Goldman getting advice from the Scientology people and him hiring their star ‘investigator’, a member of their cult, the odious PI Ingram, to harass and threaten me and my family, and Troy Buzbee’s mother, amongst others, and the bugging of phones), the grinding away of their will and the mounting costs of their defenses (as in the case of Stella and Harold Wirk) and on and on. The same sleazy, revolting, conscienceless tactics, just on a smaller scale. Epstein was and is able to bring the unmatched power of the State to bear on his victims, Burton and Goldman could only hire the best lawyers from Sacramento.

The insatiable sex needs of Epstein only matched by the insatiable sex needs of Burton, the huge number of people involved in both cases, whether victims, enablers, or those in authority. So many people who knew, so few who acted to help the victims.

Eerie, eerie parallels, yet when one looks at it, exactly the same mechanisms are at play, and I use the word ‘mechanism’ deliberately. So much for ‘conscious beings’!

69. fofblogmoderator - February 24, 2019

Comment #66 was just released from moderation.

70. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 24, 2019

Burton indoctrination:

C Influence [magic invisible angels on the ‘other side’] will fuck you up, but it’s worth it because torture is good for the awaking soul.

Sounds like something you want? Burton’s school of sadomasochism might be right for you.

71. Cult Survivor - February 24, 2019

66. Shard Oblivion

You are welcome, it’s a group effort. I replaced the older video of the “Exit Interview” on my YouTube FOF channel with the one you posted here today — REB’s voice is much more clear and the subtitles help a lot to understand Burton’s convoluted speech.

72. WonderingWhosWatching - February 25, 2019
73. WonderingWhosWatching - February 25, 2019

Deadly Cults on Oxygen Media
! How to stay safe
Five Ways Cults Lure New Members 00:03:38:
https://www.oxygen.com/deadly-cults/season-1/videos/five-ways-cults-lure-new-members

74. WonderingWhosWatching - February 25, 2019

Deadly Cults on Oxygen Media
! How to stay safe
How to Help a Loved One Who Joins a Cult 00:03:54:
https://www.oxygen.com/deadly-cults/season-1/videos/how-to-help-a-loved-one-who-joins-a-cult

75. WonderingWhosWatching - February 25, 2019

Deadly Cults on Oxygen Media
More here:
https://www.oxygen.com/deadly-cults

76. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 25, 2019
77. WhaleRider - February 25, 2019

California Church Enacts 99.999% Tolerance Policy for Clergy Sexual Abuse

Orgasim House, CA
Bored Members of the Felatioship of Friends Cultic Church Council for the Promotion of Lust met over the weekend to discuss implementation of their new meaningless 99.999% Tolerance Policy for clergy sexual abuse by their Church Leader, Lord and Master, Robert E. Burton.

“Due to declining income producing membership and the expensive nature of out of court settlements {as in the Troy Bumblebee case, in which Burton ‘allegedly’ had sex with Troy several times when he was a minor, also infecting him with the holy herpes virus} we felt compelled to draw the line”, said Greg Buttholeman, Bored Council President. “Of the thousands of male followers Robert has had unprotected sex with in the past, his pedophile rate is astonishing low for the clergy anyway, less than .001%, compared to others, like in the Catholic Church. Their clergy pedophile rate is much, much higher. Some Catholic and Methodist clergymen even have sex with female parishioners using condoms! Robert only tried that once early on, with Bodega, and that didn’t go so well.”

As of today, recruiters for the cultic church strategically located in outlying, economically depressed, third-world countries have been instructed by cult elders to verify, verify, verify that all potential young male followers destined by Higher Forces to be trafficked to the Sex Galleria back in California are well-endowed and all above the tender, tasty age of 18, but preferably not by much, and having had little or no internet experience. New shoes, socks, cuff links and a questionable visa will continue to be provided free of charge.

78. Artemis44 - February 26, 2019

Whalerider, you should write for SNL.

79. Golden Veil - February 26, 2019

Have you ever thought about what the Airbnb landlord you rent a room from does with the funds they earn? This fellow does! The savvy would-be renter thought twice and then cancelled a booking he’d made in Oregon House, California with someone he says is a Fellowship of Friends member – and decided to yelp about it.

https://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=ilCA90JEbxcvkNrkIDC6ZQ

80. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 26, 2019

Another cult revelation:
An Open Letter to the Shambhala Community
from Long-Serving Kusung
PDF document available from Tricycle:

Click to access An-Open-Letter-Statements-16-Feb-2019.pdf


See also on Tricycle website:
Two Embattled Buddhist Leaders Pressured to Stop Teaching
Following separate sexual misconduct investigations,
Shambhala head Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche
has stepped back from teaching
and Noah Levine’s authority has been revoked.

81. Cult Survivor - February 26, 2019
82. Tim Campion - February 26, 2019

79. Golden Veil

The Yelp review is likely disingenuous. (See: https://bk.asia-city.com/restaurants/news/jess-barnes-opposite-mess-hall-bangkok)

Coincidentally, “Marco C.’s” Yelp profile and only review were created the same day Cult Survivor “found” the only other Fellowship of Friends review on Yelp (see comment #3 above.)

Cult Survivor, are you playing games? If so, how does this promote an honest and open discussion about the Fellowship? (And you would be a Wikipedia editor?)

83. Cult Survivor - February 26, 2019

82. Tim Campion

I’m sorry to tell you that I didn’t write that review. If you compare my writing style and the one of the reviewer you can see that they are very different. Besides, I didn’t know that the two FOF members mentioned on the review have properties for rent on AirBnB (when I left the FOF only Salim B. and Geraldine R. did to my knowledge).

Regarding my status as a Wikipedia editor, I’m not concerned that Wikipedia administrators will come with theories linking the FOF article to fake Yelp reviews. In my experience they don’t have the time and/or interest to do that.

84. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 26, 2019

82. Tim Campion

“Cult Survivor, are you playing games? If so, how does this promote an honest and open discussion about the Fellowship? (And you would be a Wikipedia editor?)”

When Cult Survivor praised Solartype for his brave and heartfelt (if technically convoluted) explanations of what it is like to be a conscious being I figured the “survivor” part of his name was overly optimistic.

140. Cult Survivor – February 17, 2019
137. Solartype

Thank you in advance for spending time here showing us how it is like on the other side of the mirror. Very few FOF members have the courage and the patience to do what you are doing.

https://fofdiscussion.wordpress.com/2019/02/08/fellowship-of-friends-fourth-way-school-living-presence-discussion-page-167/#comment-82640

85. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 26, 2019

82. Tim Campion

“Cult Survivor, are you playing games? If so, how does this promote an honest and open discussion about the Fellowship? (And you would be a Wikipedia editor?)”

When Cult Survivor praised Solartype for his brave and heartfelt (if technically convoluted) explanations of what it is like to be a conscious being I figured the “survivor” part of his name was overly optimistic.

140. Cult Survivor – February 17, 2019
137. Solartype

Thank you in advance for spending time here showing us how it is like on the other side of the mirror. Very few FOF members have the courage and the patience to do what you are doing.

86. Cult Survivor - February 26, 2019

84. Four Days of the Fourth State

Are you implying that I am a current member of the FOF? Give me a break.

Regarding Solartype, if you read my comments carefully you will see that they were meant to be sarcastic. I wanted him to stay here as long as possible and keep giving information about the FOF and the “6 conscious beings”. I knew that he has a huge vanity feature and that attacking him would scare him away, and that’s exactly what happened.

Anyway, I’m not going to engage in a debate here with other former members, I’m just going to take a break and concentrate on the Wikipedia article.

87. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 26, 2019

86. Cult Survivor

“if you read my comments carefully you will see that they were meant to be sarcastic. I wanted him to stay here as long as possible”

You were just saying some shit trying to manipulate someone? Sounds like a cult-like practice, being “intentionally insincere”.

I don’t think you had anything to do with the fake Yelp review now that you’ve denied it, but when you eagerly jumped in to repost the link that was just posted it looked suspicious.

Advice: Don’t try to manipulate people with insincere flattery. The end does not justify the questionable means.

88. Cult Survivor - February 26, 2019

87. Four Days of the Fourth State

I posted the link to the Yelp review because the link that Golden Veil posted was for the profile of the reviewer, not for the review, and when I tried it on my cell phone it didn’t work. Try it on your phone, you will see.

Regarding what you call “cult-like attitude of being intentionally insincere”, I was being sarcastic, just like Whalerider and Ames are when they post their brilliant parodies about Burton and the FOF. Besides, the technique of flattering an informant for him to give away more information about a crime (yes, I do believe that the FOF is a criminal organization) is frequently used by law enforcement and I would say that in that case the end does justifies the questionable means. As I said, attacking the informant makes him to close and go away.

Anyway, here I am defending myself in front of an imaginary “audience” that probably doesn’t give a shit. It’s time to follow my own advice and take a break.

89. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 26, 2019

88. Cult Survivor

I see now that you are a person of impeccable intentions and actions. Someone of unquestionable integrity simply using proven scientific methods to expose and oppose evil. I apologize for my lack of insight in your case. My slight interruption of the flow of your prosecution of harmful elements with my petty accusations is likely fueled by vanity, envy and jealousy. I can see that now. I owe you a debt of gratitude.

90. truthorconsequences44 - February 26, 2019

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/02/21/shambhala-sakyong-mipham-abuse-allegations/

It seems that the tide is turning for tolerance of abuse by so-called spiritual leaders. The ‘Me Too’ movement is a big wave that offers opportunities to bring abusers into the light of public scrutiny. Note the current revelations and consequences for the leadership of Shambhala and the Catholic clergy. Finally, some consequences that have teeth!

91. Insider - February 26, 2019

82. Tim Campion

Pretty curious about this “Marco C.”

What was he doing booking a room in Oregon House? How did he know Julian Br*nst*n and Natasha G*m*lsky were members of the Fellowship? And why would that have mattered? How and why did he connect Natasha with Apollo Arts? Why did he assume that the rental money would end up in the Fellowship? And, again, why would that matter to him?

Who is “Marco C?”

92. Golden Veil - February 27, 2019

80. Wouldn’t You Like To Know – February 26, 2019

Your Me too# theme post on Rinpoche?! Wow, who would have thought?! Thanks for posting that link. At this point I still don’t know: was he convicted?

93. Golden Veil - February 27, 2019

86. Cult Survivor – February 26, 2019

“Regarding Solartype, if you read my comments carefully you will see that they were meant to be sarcastic. I wanted him to stay here as long as possible and keep giving information about the FOF and the “6 conscious beings”.”

You wanted “him” t[Solar Type] to stay here as long as possible? Whether they admit it or not, I think that pretty much all of the former members writing here are with you on that one. I would even bet on it. Well, maybe all of them except for Bruce L.!

94. Golden Veil - February 27, 2019

81. Cult Survivor – February 26, 2019
82. Tim Campion – February 26, 2019
87. Four Days of the Fourth State – February 26, 2019
91. Insider – February 26, 2019

I didn’t mean to open a can of worms here. Although you wouldn’t know it from my comment on post 79 where I linked the Yelp review, I didn’t think for a minute that the review was a description of a real booking cancellation. I had many of the same observations as all of you, had many of the same questions and even wondered about Marco C. and Cult Survivor myself.

Still, I thought that the review was interesting enough to post, with its photos (boy, have you ever seen a more gaudy, tasteless, over-done dining table?) and also the photo of the reviewer, whose appearance suggested to me a sort of living, handsome Super Mario, who is clearly up for attention. This man is definitely a little young for ex-member Cult Survivor, a thirty year veteran of he F.o.F. – unless it’s a very old photo! But as for who Marco C. really is – who cares?

By the way, Cult Survivor, I tested that link many times and had no idea that it wouldn’t work on mobile phones. That’s a very important fix. Thanks for putting in the cell phone-useable link and helping out!

95. WhaleRider - February 27, 2019

FYI, the US has a program called a T-Visa for victims of human trafficking which can be a path for citizenship, if under these guidelines, the victim faces further abuse when deported back to their home country.

This may apply to the FOF victim who has engaged in homosexual acts with burton and feels trapped because they come from a country that abuses, discriminates, or harms gays, like Russia.

“Human trafficking in the case of the T visa is defined in detail and has three elements such as:

Process of trafficking – which must include either recruitment, transferring, transportation, harboring, or receiving someone against their will

Means of trafficking – which must include either coercion, threat, fraud, abduction, deception, deceit, or abuse of power

Goal of trafficking – which must include either pornography, prostitution, violence, forced labor, sexual exploitation,debt bondage, involuntary servitude, or slavery

To qualify as victims of such trafficking, those who are adults must prove at least one element from the three, while children must show only Process or Goal of trafficking elements.

In addition to these three elements, the victim must have been trafficked into the U.S and be in the country.

It is not required that the victim have knowledge that they were being trafficked to qualify for the visa, but it is necessary for them to cooperate with law enforcement agencies in the investigation.

Once the T visa is given to the victim of human trafficking, they are automatically given benefits that are similar to those that refugees get. The U.S Department of Health and Human Services and Office of Refugee Resettlement must certify that the person was a victim to qualify for those benefits.

In addition, the T visa holder automatically gets an Employment Authorization Document (EAD) without needing to apply for one. The EAD grants them the right to work in any legal activity, part or full time, and at whatever period they choose to.”

https://visaguide.world/us-visa/nonimmigrant/t-visa/

Links to apply online are here:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/visas-for-victims-of-human-trafficking.html

96. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 27, 2019
97. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 27, 2019

Check

98. Ames Gilbert - February 27, 2019

Solartype, as the spokesperson for one of the competing groups of ‘conscious beings’ in the Fellowship of Friends, could you tell us, was Burton lying then, or lying now?
I refer to his prediction that Dorian Mattei would ‘become conscious’ in 2018:
https://fofdiscussion.wordpress.com/2017/09/17/fellowship-of-friendsfourth-way-schoolliving-presence-discussion-page-160/#comment-81601

Please, Solartype, I am breathless with anticipation and about to conk out: what is the state of Dorian Mattei’s ‘consciousness’ nowadays, and, either way—how do you know?
Thank you in advance for your consideration, you can be sure that you have somewhat relieved a fellow human’s suffering, even if it is of the unnecessary kind.

Thinking about claims of consciousness that I have come across…
There are the four that ‘William’ referenced, above, the ‘Fab Twelve’ that Solartype represents and advertised on several recent pages, and then the sorry bunch that Cult Survivor has just dug up and published for our benefit—which Solartype says is incorrect, except for two that overlap.

And there is ‘Patricia’, who announced her arrival as a Man #6
https://fofdiscussion.wordpress.com/2018/01/27/fellowship-of-friends-fourth-way-school-living-presence-discussion-page-161/#comment-81671

And there is Charles Sharp, of course, claiming his rather peculiar brand of ‘consciousness’—the consciousness of the wealthy man, constantly surrounded by fawning idiots desirous of crumbs from his table, perhaps? …

…and Nicolas Walker, who told me personally that he was ‘conscious’ and that C–Influence communicated with him on an individual basis, what, in 1992 or so? At the time, I just took that as further evidence of his kookiness and made sure I was never alone in the same room with him, even though he was, at that point, my brother–in–law. Gads!
But now I’m wondering, vague rumors are reaching me that Walker has a long–time operation going, a ‘school–within–a–school’ (acolytes composed only of women), in the manner of Asaf Braverman with his BePeriod.com.

Of course, I would be remiss to leave out Benjamin Yudin, who has long been fooling around the edges, not quite as bold or ready to take the plunge, as he conducts his classes in ‘Keying Esoteric Bible Symbols’ and such.

Maybe alert readers can remind me of others, there must be many over the last 48 years, apart from those who actually left and went on to form their own debased versions of Fourth Way ‘schools’, like Randazzo or Braverman.

I can understand, it must be mighty tempting to grab a chunk of the action while the going is good and Burton demonstrates his senility and ever more tenuous grasp of reality on a daily basis. The old order is disintegrating, time takes its toll, everything must change, even fossils—or belief systems—become further compressed, or exposed to the weather.

It doesn’t take much to imagine a whole seething mass of power plays going on right now: who is going to inherit the mess when Burton finally descends into the well–deserved hell of his own making, which he calls, “Paradise”?

99. brucelevy - February 27, 2019

97. Ames Gilbert

One can be certain that all these self proclaimed conscious being have at least one very obvious thing in common…they are clinical narcissists. Topped off with various other personality disorders. In or out of “school” they are attracted to each other like flies on shit.

100. Four Days of the Fourth State - February 28, 2019
101. Golden Veil - February 28, 2019

The guru who recommends castration also has sexual abuse
allegations and is the star of a movie, MSG: Messenger of God.

102. Ames Gilbert - March 1, 2019

Thank you, FDFS and Golden Veil, for ruining my breakfast!
What a world we live in, or rather, what a world we invite in when we plug our brains into the internet…

“‘Guru of Bling’ collects testicles for God: An Indian spiritual leader is accused of convincing up to 400 followers to remove their testicles, claiming that by doing so the men would be able to speak directly to God.”

(!!!!!)

And the movie trailer: makes me want to rush out and buy the DVD! Not.
Still, 150,000 people supposedly watched it on opening night.

On the other hand, Nicolas Walker™, one of the Artistic Luminaries of the Fellowship of Friends, was able to convince, what, 100 members of the Fellowship of Friends to attend the opening night of his film up in Nevada City? I refer, of course, to the vanity movie project known as ‘Julius Caesar’. Maybe he offered free popcorn to swell the numbers?
Since then, the movie has been available on Vimeo, (58) paid downloads so far—a cultural sensation sweeping the United States.
My understanding, gleaned from several sources, is that the uncut version is over three hours long, the Vimeo download nearer to two hours.

No, I’m not one of the (58) (ahem) ‘discerning patrons’, I sought out reviews from others who had seen the movie first.
The feedback included, “amateurish”, “self–indulgent”, “a waste of time”, and, “way, way too long”.

But I did watch the trailer, and also the interview with the lead actor, one Benjamin Moore™.

Also tedious and too long. But just before I hit the ‘stop’ button, he started rattling on about how the movie carried the theme of ‘conscience’ (at 3:09). Naturally, I wanted to hear more, I would assume that Benjamin was expressing the viewpoint of the director as well as himself…

Alas! An obviously memorized script, since it was all theory, and totally unconvincing. What a poseur, in and out of the movie!
As were most the performances sampled in the trailer, presumably highlights chosen by the director to draw in an audience.

The credits show the usual assemblage of Fellowship ‘stars’ and wannabees, including an appearance by Nicolas Walker™ himself. So much vanity sloshing around a small space!
The producers (a.k.a. wealthy dilettantes) are listed as Claire Liu™ (Walker’s wife), and Walker himself.

As I said, a vanity project, and there is nothing so vain as a self–described ‘conscious being’, is there?

Funny how all these ‘conscious beings’ like Walker™, Solartype™ and the rest of the ‘Fab Twelve’ don’t actually ever actually graduate from Burton’s School of Permanent Infantilism and Narcissistic Co–Dependence™ (B.S., for short), stretch their wings and test their new abilities in the real world, huh?

Anyway, in the spirit of fairness to Nicolas Walker & Co™, go see for yourself at:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3733096/?ref_=nm_knf_t1
and:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzRhxailALD3EA05q63ny8Q

103. Four Days of the Fourth State - March 1, 2019

“For who so firm that cannot be seduced?”

“So every bondman in his own hand bears
The power to cancel his captivity.”

104. brucelevy - March 1, 2019

102. Ames Gilbert

I wonder if they performed this in the Wankatron.

105. Golden Veil - March 1, 2019

102. Ames Gilbert – March 1, 2019

Thanks a lot, Ames, for adding the links to the Julius Caesar film – you ruined my lunch! One minute into the trailer I see the Fellowship of Friends grounds… the whole thing was probably filmed there and environs around Oregon House. It’s clear that all the cast attended the school of bad acting. I see that Asaf Braverman was given the role of the cobbler.

About your comment regarding the Messenger from God trailer “What a world we live in…, etc.” My first thought after viewing that trailer was that the world has gone crazy!

106. rich - March 1, 2019

mess from god, kinda hell’s angel mutilation cult…
pass on fof flop………………….

107. Ames Gilbert - March 2, 2019

Bruce, I was told Nicolas Walker™ rented a theatre, probably the Nevada Theatre.

Golden Veil, it is deeply disturbing what people will do under the influence of these charlatans.

This intense eagerness to belong, to be accepted, to have someone else direct one’s life.
No, ‘eagerness’ doesn’t begin to express the depth of the need. It is a psychological imperative so powerful that it overcomes all warnings, inhibitions, common sense, everything.

How can someone be so reduced in reason that he gives up his testicles for God? Why the hell would God have a need for his testicles? And all those other sacrifices demanded in by those claiming to be speaking in ‘his’ name through the tens of centuries, likewise?
It has to be insanity. Well, you and I have some insights into that, don’t we? We are damned lucky the insanity was temporary, and that we came somewhat to our senses…

And you, personally, played a part in warning me and then helping me… thanks so much, Bruce!
And I hope I have helped others in my turn…

108. fofblogmoderator - March 2, 2019

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