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Fellowship Of Friends/Fourth Way School/Living Presence Discussion – Page 193 March 20, 2022

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.

Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Living Presence Discussion.

Here, you can share your thoughts, your stories, your own experiences as a former member of the FOF.  If you are considering becoming a member, you are invited to read the discussion to better know the organization you are considering joining; we welcome your questions. Participants in the discussion may post under their own name, or anonymously.

The first comment of all new participants will be moderated before they can start communicating in real-time.  You will need to register with a valid email address and be able to reply to the welcome/verification email you will receive. If you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear within a day after it has been submitted; any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, such as personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion anonymously will prompt a warning. Continued abuse will result in your removal from the discussion.

To visit the official site of The  Fellowship Of Friends;


To hear the new Spotify expose on the Fellowship;


1. crossroads - March 30, 2022

In regards to Russian members of the Fellowship of Friends accepting Robert’s loans to find refuge in Mexico, to my mind comes the idea Double Jeopardy… yes, there is the one that refers to the  Fifth Amendment in the US Constitution but on the other hand, the danger of being spiritually annihilated plus other real life dangers…

General Glen VanHerck, of the North American Aerospace Defense Command and United States Northern Command, has declared, couple of days ago, that Mexico is the biggest operations base for the Russian espionage.

USA attorney general in the administrations of Presidents GWB and DT, William Barr along with current United States ambassador to Mexico. Kenneth Salazar have made definitive statements as well.

Even though Mexican President is the second in the world in citizens approval, and the fact that traditionally Mexico has been refuge and has open doors for immigrants of the world with very little restrictions, the reality is that Mexico is part of the North Command.

2. Insider - March 30, 2022

1. crossroads
Imagine the debt owed by the Russian refugees to Robert Burton. Whatever funds did not come from the Fellowship directly to cover air fare, housing costs in Mexico City, plus expenses for 6 months, came from a massive fundraising campaign that is ongoing. And how will Robert exact his pound of flesh from these young Russian men? Well, Burton will be heading down to Mexico City on Easter Sunday, April 17. Get ready, boys. Line up at the Hilton Hotel, Reforma to make the first installment on your debt, understanding that the debt will never be repaid in full, and regular installments will be expected whenever and wherever Burton demands.

3. WhaleRider - April 1, 2022

“Esoteric” School Seeks to Double Student Debt in 2022

Poor House, CA~In a move that has garnered the praise of right wing, conservative congress members in the Republican Party, Robber E Burton, the literal headmaster of a similar sex party cult in Northern California (claiming to be “the one and only, really real, super fun” school of “special spiritual operations”) has decided yet again to raise his membership donation fees beyond the reach of most people, charge his students to clean up his mess, recruit destitute young men wishing to escape countries whose currency has been recently been devalued to nearly nothing, and make unforgiving loans with compounding interest to his destitute students that they cannot possibly repay in six lifetimes.

Already Burton has had great success in promoting slavish student indebtedness by liberally plying his students with alcohol, then encouraging his unsuspecting, glassy-eyed students to max out all their credit cards by purchasing over-priced, shiny material objects during hyped-up consciousness fund raising auctions, or to pay the exorbitant tuition fees he charges his students to attend his symposium dinners, during which he repeats the same tired quotes from other people way smarter than him between gulps of wine and diatribes about overcoming so-called “feminine dominance.”

Over the last five or so decades, Burton has promised his perpetual students who aren’t permitted to graduate that they won’t have to worry about paying back their credit cards after the impending apocalypse wipes out civilization, an ongoing future event which he has failed to accurately predict on several occasions, causing many of his students to eventually file for bankruptcy or commit suicide when reality sets in.

When one young male student who wished to remain anonymous in order to prevent his parents from discovering his regrettable fate prostituting himself was asked how much money he currently owes after being trafficked from his mother country and provided new Ferragamo shoes to wear, he sheepishly replied, “da, teacher tells us being in debt is higher state.”

(Happy April Fool’s Day!)

4. Jomo Piñata - April 1, 2022

Coming this summer, a book about the Alex Horn/Sharon Gans cult:

“We were invisible. We had to be. We took an oath of absolute secrecy. We never even told our immediate families who we were. We went about our lives in New York City. Just like you. We were your accountants, money managers, lawyers, executive recruiters, doctors. We owned your child’s private school and sold you your brownstone. But you’d never guess our secret lives, how we lived in a kind of silent terror and fervor. There were hundreds of us.”

Right under the noses of neighbors, clients, spouses, children, and friends, a secret society, simply called School—a cult of snared Manhattan professionals—has been led by the charismatic, sociopathic and dangerous leader Sharon Gans for decades. Spencer Schneider was recruited in the eighties and he stayed for more than twenty-three years as his life disintegrated, his self-esteem eroded, and he lined the pockets of Gans and her cult.

Cult members met twice weekly, though they never acknowledged one another outside of meetings or gatherings. In the name of inner development, they endured the horrors of mental, sexual, and physical abuse, forced labor, arranged marriages, swindled inheritances and savings, and systematic terrorizing. Some of them broke the law. All for Gans.

“During those years,” Schneider writes, “my world was School. That’s what it’s like when you’re in a cult, even one that preys on and caters to New York’s educated elite. This is my story of how I got entangled in School and how I got out.”

At its core, Manhattan Cult Story is a cautionary tale of how hundreds of well-educated, savvy, and prosperous New Yorkers became fervent followers of a brilliant but demented cult leader who posed as a teacher of ancient knowledge. It’s about double-lives, the power of group psychology, and how easy it is to be radicalized—all too relevant in today’s atmosphere of conspiracy and ideologue worship.”


5. Jomo Piñata - April 1, 2022
6. Beelzebob - April 3, 2022

From an essay written about Gurdjieff. Seems very applicable to RB and the FOF:

Gurdjieff made some telling observations on another subject “Black magic does not in any way mean magic of evil…. No one ever does anything for the sake of evil, in the interests of evil. Everyone always does everything in the interests of good as he understands it…. Black magic may be quite altruistic, may strive after the good of humanity…. But what can be called black magic has always one definite characteristic. This characteristic is the tendency to use people for some, even the best of aims, without their knowledge and understanding, either by producing in them faith and infatuation or by acting upon them through fear.

“But it must be remembered in this connection that a ‘black magician’, whether good or evil [sic], has at all events been at a school. He has learned something, has heard something, knows something. He is simply a ‘half-educated man’ who has either been turned out of a school or who has himself left a school having decided that he already knows enough, that he does not want to be in subordination any longer, and that he can work independently and even direct the work of others. All ‘work’ of this kind can produce only subjective results, that is to say, it can only increase deception and increase sleep instead of decreasing them. Nevertheless something can be learned from a ‘black magician’ although in the wrong way. He can sometimes by accident even tell the truth”.

7. Jomo Piñata - April 9, 2022
8. Intrigued - April 10, 2022


My name is Alfred Baez.
I am a sociologist and researcher of religious cults/sects.
I flipped through this blog a few years back, and I see that there is a very small number of posters here. I have hardly seen any new participants. My question, if anyone agrees to answer: What is the purpose of this blog?
Leave a legacy? Take revenge? Get support? Take out frustration?



9. Joey Virgo - April 10, 2022

@8/Alfred Baez

For what it’s worth, my understanding is that originally, the blog’s purpose was simply to discuss the organization known as the Fellowship of Friends, a so-called neutral space being provided for such discussion. A few years afterwards, its purpose included trying to warn others and prevent them from joining this cult — and to get a petition signed whereby Robert Burton might be indicted legally as a sexual predator. Though that petition failed, anyone was and still is at liberty to share their experiences inside the FoF, including getting support or venting their frustration as well. I’m sure there are individuals wanting to leave a legacy of sorts, too. Many already have.


10. Insider - April 11, 2022

8. “Alfred Baez”

If you don’t mind, please share some links to your writings or studies of cults. I don’t find you from a Google search. Thanks very much.

11. WhaleRider - April 11, 2022

I’m intrigued, too…has this poster named “AB” posted here before under a different name or are they new? Are you still welcoming brand new participants?

Or is AB’s agenda here to dissemble, distract or take out their frustration that this blog still exists?

(It might be helpful to let us know when “someone” shows up out of the great blue yonder.)

12. Golden Veil - April 13, 2022

8. Intrigued – April 10, 2022

A paragraph at the top of each page of the discussion is a pretty concise description of stated purpose:

Here, you can share your thoughts, your stories, your own experiences as a former member of the FOF. If you are considering becoming a member, you are invited to read the discussion to better know the organization you are considering joining; we welcome your questions. Participants in the discussion may post under their own name, or anonymously.

~ ~ ~

Some have described the experience of being a participant here as though we are sharing experiences and thoughts while sitting around a campfire. Whether you are a current member, former member or completely new to the Fellowship of Friends, along with reading the discussion, to learn more, I suggest you listen to the excellent recent podcast Revelations created by investigative journalist Jennings Brown after his three year study of the cult. The first episode is linked at the top of the page.

The continued discussion here could be especially relevant to spiritual seekers doing online research while considering becoming members of the Fellowship of Friends.

13. Golden Veil - April 13, 2022

6. Beelzebob – April 3, 2022

I agree! That essay is very apt!

14. Insider - April 14, 2022

8. “Whoever you are”

You left off a key reason why people post on this blog: to further the real awakening of Fellowship members who are already beginning to see massive contradictions between Robert Burton’s words and his actions, who are gradually coming to realize that Burton, not only is no longer their “teacher,” but is not a “teacher” at all and never has been. He is, rather, a very clever, psychopathic predator and con man.

I was certainly helped immensely to see this thanks to the blog.

It sounds like you could use a little awakening.

15. Jomo Piñata - April 19, 2022

Must blogs have a purpose? Can’t they just be a bunch of people conversing with each other and spitting watermelon seeds into the campfire?

16. John Harmer - April 20, 2022

#15 Jomo Piñata, Indeed. The Gurdjieffian obsession with aim and effort can linger for a while after leaving the school. IMHO there is a sweet wisdom in having no purpose at all.

17. WhaleRider - April 21, 2022

Testicle Tanning Takes Off in Cult

Glass House, CA~ Due the dwindling sperm count seen in American males and recent travel ban on Russian nationals known for high sperm counts, Robert E Burton, the anti-puritanical leader of a Northern California Camel Cult, has instituted a new “ball walking” exercise for his male followers that is likely to raise more eyebrows than consciousness.

“Testicle tanning”, which theoretically raises the sperm count by exposing the testicles to UV light was recently highlighted on Fox News by Tucker Carlson, and has caught Burton’s not-so-divided attention, who has been unsatisfied with the amount of sperm his overworked, gaunt American male followers have been producing during his late night wine cellar symposiums.

In an effort to also “work against” so-called, “feminine dominance” Burton is now requiring his vineyard workers to go “ball walking” by unzipping their pants and unabashedly dangling their scrotums in the bright sun while slavishly working in the vineyard…without the use of UV blocking sunscreen.

The new exercise has sent several young men to the emergency room with severely sunburnt balls, as they tried to outdo each other as young males and fanatical cult followers typically do attempting to please their peerless leader.

“I miss my Russian dolls”, he was recently quoted as saying as he was getting tucked into bed, “they just keep coming and coming, one after another.”

“For once,” said one of Burton’s female followers who have historically been discriminated against in the cult, “I’m sooo glad I’m a woman.”

18. fofblogmoderator - April 21, 2022

#11 (WR) The person who posted under the name “Intrigued” appears to be a new participant. New participants are welcome and the only posts I don’t put through are spam oriented

19. ton2u - April 22, 2022

Dear flog moderator,

Many thanks for your continuing support here.


20. invictus maneo - April 23, 2022

8. Intrigued:
I’ve known a fair number of university professor sociologists. None would ever use the aggressive and challenging tone you used when talking to potential research subjects. If you are surprised at your reception here realize current members of the Fellowship drop by from time to time pretending to be something else, but really attempting to throw dust into our metaphoric eyes. And their attempts are usually laughably pathetic.

So as Insider mentioned above, if you wish to be regarded as a sociologist doing research, please provide some reason for us to do so.

21. Insider - April 27, 2022

20. invictus maneo

Maybe “Intrigued” merely identifies as a sociologist, and therefore everyone else has to go along with it. Makes sense to me.

22. Tobbers - May 17, 2022

Hi I am not a current or former member but have been fascinated with FOF after finding out about the Alex Horne/Sharon Gans groups via various articles. I am confused about a few things. At what point did REB abandon fourth way teaching and what motivated this break? Was it easier to manipulate people if he was the only seer or visionary? Also were or are the key figures who are set to replace REB, such as Dorian Matei, Asaf Braverman and the Sacha guy in sexual relationships with REB? What do you think motives them given that they seem to have seen behind the curtain more than others? Like they must know more of the truth than the poor guys who believe they are having sex with a guru. Why keep having a relationship with him then?

23. fofblogmoderator - May 17, 2022

#22 Is a new participant

24. Insider - May 18, 2022

22. Tobbers

“Also were or are the key figures who are set to replace REB, such as Dorian Matei, Asaf Braverman and the Sacha guy in sexual relationships with REB? What do you think motives them given that they seem to have seen behind the curtain more than others? Like they must know more of the truth than the poor guys who believe they are having sex with a guru. Why keep having a relationship with him then?”

Remembering that Asaf left Burton 6 years ago to do his own guru thing, they all are/were major beneficiaries of the Burton scam. Large salaries, expense accounts, world travel, free food and entertainment everywhere at Apollo, jewelry, the (imagined) envy of all the commoners. They (and many others) know everything, are fully complicit, and are knowingly reaping the benefits. In short, they are well-paid prostitutes.

25. Associated Press - May 18, 2022

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain:

26. Insider - May 19, 2022

This quotation is from Étienne de La Boétie in 1548:
“Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.“

27. Insider - May 20, 2022

“The Deep End is an upcoming docuseries—based on the Gizmodo podcast The Gateway—that follows Teal Swan, a self-proclaimed spiritual leader, her tantalizing self-help empire, and those who follow it devoutly.

“Teal Swan is an internet guru who rose to fame for her self-help videos on YouTube, which cover topics ranging from shame, spirit plants, and even cryptocurrency. Her soothing tone and spiritual ideology allowed her to capture the attention of 1.25 million subscribers. The Deep End follows Swan’s rise to prominence, the goings-ons at her spiritual retreat center in Costa Rica, her loyal followers, and the private investigator working to determine the truth of Swan’s organization.”

The Gizmodo podcast, The Gateway, referred to above, was hosted by Jennings Brown. Jennings then hosted Revelations, the recent 6-part podcast about the Fellowship, after meeting Teal Swan’s husband, and former FF member, in Costa Rica.

Can we now look forward to a docuseries on the Fellowship of Friends?

28. WhaleRider - May 21, 2022

At the center of a cult….the end stage of delusion…a place of darkness, of no return.

How does that sound?

29. Joey Virgo - May 26, 2022

David Guido, a very early student of the Fellowship of Friends, passed away at the age of 86 in March 2022. This was confirmed by his wife with whom I recently spoke over the phone. He suffered heart failure.

30. crossroads - May 28, 2022

Is there a way to repair the damage?

31. Tempus Fugit - May 29, 2022

Hello friends,
Thanks to Joey Virgo for the information about David Guido. It’s been a few years since I posted here but when I heard his name it brought back strong memories.

I met David in about 1972 when joined the FOF. David was married at the time to Bonita, the first person to land in Burton’s spiderweb. I liked both of them.

I remember David as a big, kind man. He had a beard and smoked a pipe. He was a deep thinker, and like to practice an intellectual exercise called “pondering.” I believe this technique was discussed by Gurdjieff in Beelzebub’s Tales to his Grandson.

David said pondering meant keeping a certain idea on your mind for an extended period to develop insight about it. I remember David talking about doing this with the concept of “the ray of creation.” Pretty heady stuff!

David was not a big talker at meetings, but when he did speak his comments were thoughtful and got attention.

I’m glad to hear David had a long life and I hope it was a filled with much happiness. But no matter how long we live our death is painful to those who love us, and I would like to express sincere condolences to his wife and family.

Tempus Fugit

32. Insider - June 1, 2022

Mario Fantoni suffered a stroke today (June 1) and has passed away.

33. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg - June 2, 2022

More revolting Douchebaggery, The cycle of abuse in Burton’s ideal society, the Fellowship of Friends……

“There’s this cycle of abuse that goes on…… Something I wasn’t really expecting….With the podcast I interviewed a number of the men who were allegedly abused. After 3 years I thought I had got to the core of this rotten onion and then children who were raised in the Fellowship started reaching out and they said that those men, because they were in the inner circle and they had power, that then they abused these children.” – Jennings Brown, (producer of the podcast series “Revelations” interviewed in the podcast, “A little bit culty”


p.s. FOF as a subject in the podcast begins earnestly around 49 minutes and if you go straight to it you may have to sit through a couple of ads. There’s also a second episode here….


34. Golden Veil - June 4, 2022

Abuse of power by “the clergy”


The Seven Deadly Sins

The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, is a grouping and classification of vices within Christian teachings, although they are not mentioned in the Bible. Behaviours or habits are classified under this category if they directly give rise to other immoralities… and are considered contrary to the seven heavenly virtues.* [Wikipedia]

According to the standard list, they are:

Greed ~ REB (check)


Wrath ~ REB (check)


Envy ~ REB (check)


Lust ~ REB (check)

~ ~ ~

Bingo! Did I miss anything?

35. Fee Fi Fo Fum - June 7, 2022

29. Joey Virgo

Thanks for letting us know. I remember David Guido. The FoF of the early-mid 1970s sure seemed like a very different experience than whatever it mutated into, many years later. Whatever it is now, is not even a shell of its former self. For the older members who are still (still!) members, they stay out of habit, a delusion that they are in a special place of presence, and perhaps because they have no where else to go. For REB and some of the core members involved in governance, the power and flow of donations are hard to give up.

36. Insider - June 7, 2022

In “The Case of P.D. Ouspensky,” by Marie Seton, Marie writes:

One day he said: “I have become dependent on the comfort, the luxury. I can’t give it up.”

37. Opus111 - June 16, 2022

Today NYT relating a story about FOF members and Google company:

38. Tim Campion - June 16, 2022

“The Cult in Google” by Kevin Lloyd appears on media.com.

39. WhaleRider - June 17, 2022


Fellowship cult members dutifully “…working registration desks, taking photographs, playing music, providing massages and serving wine.”

What could possibly go wrong?

40. Nevasayneva - June 19, 2022

Re whale rider comment on The NY Times article, yeah that’s what I thought as well

Fellowship cult members dutifully “…working registration desks, taking photographs, playing music, providing massages and serving wine.”

The guy who called them out is going to make a tonne of money on this


41. Nevasayneva - June 19, 2022

When I left the FOF I pretty much processed that experience myself. Also when you leave you may or may not think it was or is a cult. Anyway it is a somewhat high control – high expectations environments. You are dealing with the Gods! Are you not going to put your best foot forward??

For those who have escaped or are trying to escape a high control high expectations environment here is is a website that shows you are not alone


42. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg - June 22, 2022

At Axios today.


“The Fellowship is a tiny California sect based in the Sierra Nevada foothills that has run a winery, invested in antiques and espouses spiritual awakening through exposure to the fine arts. Its founder has also faced allegations of sexual abuse.”

It’s a tawdry, pretentious, failed doomsday cult.

43. Insider - June 23, 2022

Another podcast about the Fellowship. Jennings Brown, producer of “Revelations” last year, is being interviewed by “Ross and Carrie.”

If you can’t get to the Spotify version, Ross and Carrie have their own website: ohnopodcast.com. The Jennings interview is there.

44. Will Johnson - June 24, 2022

I have added his date of 2006 to list of dates predicted for the Apocalypse in Wikipedia. Can anyone give me an exact date and a source for this date ?

45. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg - June 25, 2022

42, Will Johnson

Burton lying away in 1979


“I was only three days off in the prediction of my crystallization, which over a period of ten years is quite good, and I consider that prediction accurate. If a depression occurs in 1984, if California falls in 1998, if Armageddon occurs in 2006, then I was correct. All of which means, I am correct regarding the other information I have been speaking about.
Actually, most of what I speak about is facts.”

– Robert Earl Burton, June 11, 1979

Obviously “facts” above relates to the alternative facts that underpin Burton’s alternate reality. He’s been lying and working his fantasy in a 50 year long, ongoing and successful grift. Lying about Earthquakes and armageddon, scaring the crap out of chumps who stock up on dried beans again in a desperate attempt to show compliance.
He always comes back after a failure with, “C Influence tricked me or a variation on the “I am a dupe like you” from his King Dupe repertoire.

The post apocalyptic dust settles and those for whom the cognitive dissonance can no longer be avoided or bypassed finally pack up and get out of Dodge. Those who remain simply double down on the dissonance and FOF becomes once again a smaller more fanatical bunch of zealots and mugs. The trouble makers who rubbed the gum from their eyes are shed and the ever faithful remain and pay good money for deception/ It’s like watching Tucker on Fox. They get a buzz, don’t matter if anythings true or not, it’s all about my state.

There was another one in 2018, A rerun of “Fall of California”

and I believe there’s now a new one set for 2025 or maybe 2026

“We are preparing for a non-electrical age. We could perpetuate electricity, but it is not the wish of higher forces to retain that advancement.” – Burton in the 80’s selling conspiracies and snake oil.Hes a liar plain and simple is entirely untethered now.

If anyone has the stomach to be reminded of the relentless assault on sanity and truth they endured, take a look here.


Scroll down to, “Robert Burton’s 1980’s thoughts on Armageddon”.

Can’t recall any intervening conversations with the fairies that Burton might have had before 2018. Perhaps someone here can clarify or fill in any blanks for Will Johnson

46. Insider - June 25, 2022

The failed Oct 21, 2018 “prediction” was particularly hard on old Burton. To refresh some memories, California was to “fall” (once again) early that morning, like 4-5am. It was a Sunday, and a meeting was scheduled for 10:30am. A day or two before the 21st, Burton announced that the meeting would be cancelled if the omen came to pass, figuring that not too many people would be putting on their “meeting attire” and paying $50-$100 when California had just gone under water.

Unless we were too asleep to notice, nothing happened early in the morning on Oct 21. The meeting was held as usual. But there was one interesting change. Normally, there would be a row of seats on the stage facing the flock, the middle one for Burton, and 2-3 seats on either side of him. That arrangement was still in place. However, there was a second row of 6-7 seats, also on the stage, right behind Burton. Those seats were filled by members of Burton’s harem, who entered stage right in an exceedingly solemn procession. It seemed to me that Burton was so shaken by another failed prediction, that he needed to demonstrate to the flock that he still had considerable support and “backing” (as the harem was covering his back).

Burton began the meeting by admitting that the latest prediction did not happen. (Thanks, Bob, for clarifying; wouldn’t have gotten that without you.) But Burton was not finished. Right there, he made yet another prediction: that the event would happen within the next hour, during the meeting. He asked everyone to look around the room for the nearest exit. He reminded everyone that we have the whole rest of the day for the prediction to materialize. (What an optimist!)

Then, a little later in the meeting, he made one final, desperate attempt to salvage something from this humiliating situation. A football game was scheduled for later that day in the San Francisco Bay Area between the San Francisco team and a team from Los Angeles. He predicted that the long-hoped-for earthquake would occur during the game, which would be fitting and ideal, since the fall of California would kill so much of the population of Los Angeles and San Francisco.

When Burton and the harem had returned to the friendly confines of the Galleria, Burton shared with his intimates just how pissed off he was at “the gods” who denied him yet another predicted disaster.

47. Associated Press - June 25, 2022

How a Religious Sect Landed Google in a Lawsuit
A video producer claims he was fired after he complained that an obscure group based in the Sierra foothills dominated a business unit at Google.

This sounds very similar to the Kelly Services (W.H.) thing (mentioned in the NYT article) all over again; this time with Peter Lubbers as the central character. This, the Google thing, has been going on for possibly decade, or more, that I know about. Geezzzs, how mechanical is that? In the Kelly Services episode, it lead to a lawsuit, the, likely, demise of that business unit/location of Kelly, and possibly the unemployability for the main culprit(s). (Think about how you can explain away the loss of a job due to possible criminal activity!) Have to go self-employed somehow. These activities in the employment world gets gossip spreading like wildfire, too. It also leaves companies and persons open to civil and criminal legal exposure. (Which Peter Lubbers should know about since his brother, the infamous David (Lubbers) Springfield lawyer – now disgraced (See my next post showing a review of David Springfield as a lawyer.)) Many of the, mostly unqualified, employees at Kelly went on to do a similar thing at this Google episode.

Imagine that over 20 years how many former, and/or current, employees of Alphabet/Google*, as well as prospective employees that were rejected, could constitute a “class,” in legal terms, that produces a class action lawsuit over this, alleged, criminality?

How is this behaviour any different than organized crime (Mafia) creating jobs for people (typically construction) that are “No Show” jobs? Main difference here is conditions are velvet gloved – “Oh!, it was all a play orchestrated by ‘C Influence!'” – compared with having a gun held to your head or a requirement that you should pay for “protection.”

* Wikipedia description:
Alphabet Inc. is an American multinational technology conglomerate holding company headquartered in Mountain View, California. It was created through a restructuring of Google on October 2, 2015, and became the parent company of Google and several former Google subsidiaries. Alphabet is the world’s third-largest technology company by revenue and one of the world’s most valuable companies. It is one of the Big Five American information technology companies, alongside Amazon, Apple, Meta[FaceBook] and Microsoft.

Then there is the money laundering that goes on in The Fellowship of Friends; not to mention human sex trafficking (wink, wink, religious workers)!

48. Associated Press - June 25, 2022

This post should follow my prior one that commented on the How a Religious Sect Landed Google in a Lawsuit; page 193/37. In particular,
about David (Lubbers) Springfield, lawyer, who is Peter Lubbers’ brother. And, I quote from:


“CLCon BirdEye
5 years ago
HORRID! The Real David Springfield is really Jurrie Bouwie Lubbers and is married to Anjela Kasper Nova and both on the lamb after being disbarred from the California State Bar for pillaging the Client Trust, latest Tracking finds they have been in Canada , Dubai, and outside Marysville California at the bizarre Friends of the Fourth way cult named #Appollo . Several of us had been in court for up to 20 appearances with then attorney David Springfield and he promised reciprocity on a Civil suit and then GHOSTED DISAPPEARED leaving some clients so Hopeless that they took their own lives and he also bankrupted and severely disadvantaged others by the proved fact that Springfield never returned ANY documents or moving records to his clients. Furthering matters horribly …… most us had our computers wiped but only to those matters or files related to David Springfield and his legal representation. Very convenient as Springfield had always bragged his brother worked for Google directly. Its a travesty those injured by Springfield. If you know of his whereabouts there is a meeting of his wronged clients meeting regularly in So Cal and you can reach out to both The Yuba County Sheriffs , Sutter Sherrifs and Yolo County Sheriffs as well Riverside County where Springfield is a wanted person o[f] interest. His wife seems to be alive and well even thriving on Facebook and Instagram under Anjela Kasper -Nova posting Glamorous photos of herself in Dubai. sad stuff really, we’ve lost all our money and legal rights on her fraudulent husband and they are off in Kite Beach Dubai or hiding in their so called Church. sad and disgusted by these Shameless Scammers.”

49. John Harmer - June 26, 2022

Those predictions from the 1980s are sobering. I was particularly taken with this one, which both expresses the supreme narcissism that Burton inhabits, but also provides a neat excuse for the complete failure of any of his predictions to be fulfilled.

“From one angle, Armageddon, the supreme battle at the end of the world, is only being postponed until we are prepared.” Robert Earl Burton

50. Rich - June 28, 2022

more bs from uncle bob

51. Insider - July 1, 2022

50. Rich

Yes, more bs, but just what the flock wants and is willing to pay dearly for.

Just what does the flock want? (Attention would be cult leaders: This could be the best career advice you will ever receive.)

–The flock wants to be part of a flock. The flock membership card confers identity, albeit a group identity.

–The flock wants to be led by someone who projects confidence and certainty, who has answers and explanations for everything, and who never says “I don’t know” or “I made a mistake.”

–The flock wants to feel special, unique, blessed, even though they themselves have never risen above the level of flock-behavior and flock-think. Despite this, they want to believe that THE FLOCK itself is special and, e.g., will be “going to paradise” en masse.

–The flock does not want individuality, power or responsibility. They are quite content with giving all of this to their flock leader.

–The flock wants to deny the reality, existence or possibility of their own immortal Self, and attribute all such notions to someone else.

–The flock sees itself perpetually on a lower level than the flock leader, and they are supremely content with that position.

52. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg - July 10, 2022

Mihai explains Burton’s sick seduction routine. Burton is a Douchebag number 8 who has been refining and perfecting his game of molestation and rape for 50 years. He gets a lot of help from his enablers, procurers and proceresses.

53. John Harmer - July 17, 2022

I have just noticed that an edit was made on 22 May 2022 to the Fellowship of Friends wiki page by an editor named Timtraveler. The following sentence was removed ” In 2021 The Fellowship of Friends was the subject of a podcast by Jennings Brown. [11] ” and the reference to the spotify link was also removed. The reason for the removal was cited as “Previous description was not accurate, and misleading”. I know wiki has rules about the way information is presented, so I am wondering about a formula that might be more likely to remain on line. Any suggestions? I wondered if

Jennings Brown an independent reporter created a series of Podcasts on the Revelations site hosted by Spotify that are the result of an extensive investigation into the Fellowship of Friends.

might fare better?

54. Tim Campion - July 18, 2022

53. John Harmer

The May 22nd edit was to clarify the name of the REB blog.

The “Revelations” podcast citation was deleted in a June 20th edit, with no reason cited. I’d suggest that the editor who posted the original “Revelations” citation repeat the edit, adding for credibility that it’s a Blumhouse Television and Vespucci Production.

55. John Harmer - July 18, 2022

#54 Tim Campian. OK, I have reposted the link and slightly rephrased the text in the criticisms paragraph. Thanks for your accurate reading of the edit history in wikipedia.

Here’s the current state of the FoF wiki entry:


56. Tim Campion - July 18, 2022

John, thanks for monitoring and editing the Fellowship Wikipedia page.

57. Golden Veil - July 25, 2022

I just clicked on the Fellowship of Friends Wikipedia article by accident. It reads very well now. By the way, I was actually looking for this discussion but it no longer comes up in my search engine results (Duck Duck Go search engine) on Chrome, Safari or Firefox. It used to come up as one of the first results by simply typing Fellowship of Friends – but now it doesn’t even come up by searching Fellowship of Friends Discussion. This seems very odd to me. Does anyone have any thoughts about what the problem could be? Could it just be the current format of the rather lengthy title, Fellowship Of Friends/Fourth Way School/Living Presence Discussion? Is it just an issue on my computers? If this is a common issue I see it as a real problem because one of the aims of this discussion is to inform prospective students who may be researching the “The School” / cult about experiences of former members.

55. John Harmer – July 18, 2022.

About the Wikipedia article, it reads very well, but I noticed a minor error that could bear correction. I know that there are various editors involved but I am wondering John, if you could make a correction. I think that regarding this discussion, where it says “It has passed through a number of editors and platforms, …” It would be more accurate to say moderators rather than editors – but I think that there may have been only two, the Sheik and the present moderator.

Overall, I’m very impressed with the Wikipedia article. Very concise and well written! The notices at top could be removed, possibly.

58. John Harmer - July 25, 2022

#57 moderators it is, ’tis done.

59. Associated Press - July 27, 2022

The Fellowship of Friends – Art, Beauty, and Abuse
1,530 views Oct 21, 2021

60. Associated Press - July 27, 2022

Cult Wine Tasting & Fellowship of Friends Updates
431 views Dec 3, 2021

61. Associated Press - July 27, 2022

The Fellowship of Friends: A Cult of Gentlemen
Dangerous Ideas S01E01
12,127 views Aug 4, 2017

62. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg - July 30, 2022
63. Insider - July 30, 2022

59. Thanks diego.

How fitting for this article to come out on the eve of Apollo’s annual 2-night ballet festival. Hopefully Burton will “be present” to the ballet, and not slip into “negative imagination” about the possible consequences of this latest unwanted exposure.

64. diegoriverassquaretrouserleg - August 11, 2022

Breaking news: Bob has a twin brother who works in a chip shop.

65. crossroads - August 12, 2022

seems like is going viral…

Paraphrasing from a daily card by: Love, Robert…
“be clever, influence C will take advantage of your naivete”

66. WhaleRider - August 19, 2022

“Cult Adjusts to ‘No Spitting’ Exercise”

Burtonia House, CA-Although being instructed for decades to swallow the “Sly Man’s Pill” even when it’s rammed down your throat, a metaphor for “turning lemons into lemonade and selling it for a tidy profit without informing the IRS”, ardent followers of the less obscure Northern Californian Camel Cult, run by the infamous sexual predator, Robert E Burton, are now scrambling to find toothpaste and mouthwash that they can swallow to avoid violating the new “No Spitting Exercise”.

One clever long time follower stated, “I always use baking soda to brush my teeth anyway, because when you swallow it, the baking soda also acts as an antacid which helps silence my gut reactions after dining with the Teacher.”

One ex-follower was quick to point out that Burton, whose sexual exploits with his male followers over many years have been meticulously documented, may have other nefarious reasons for instigating the new exercise. Often members of his entourage were spotted “abruptly exiting from his residence and expectorating an unknown substance into the potted plants”.

It’s also well known that unless followers “suck it up” and swallow everything “hook, line, and sinker” they are asked to leave the cult.

67. ton2u - August 26, 2022
68. Insider - August 29, 2022

Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends are as worried and defensive as I have ever known. Without any doubt, it is related to the flood of revelations, articles and podcasts during the past year.

Recently, the Fellowship bought the domains robertearlburton dot org, com and net, and also robertearlburtonandthefellowshipoffriends dot org and net. They are trying to hog any search engine results that would otherwise be negative towards Burton and the Fellowship.

This act of desperation (really a declaration of war), ordered either by the Board of Directors, or possibly by Burton himself (on advice from his close handlers), indicates that the Fellowship is in its death throes. It will not be continuing for very much longer. All of its leadership and “older students” know this very well, and they have lost all sense of rationality and spiritual purpose.

The average age of the members living in and near Oregon House is around, if not over, 70. There is a virtual army of retired members who have nothing better to do with their little remaining time, referring to their own few remaining years, and also to the Fellowship’s certain demise, as soon as Burton has one more heart attack.

A deep Galleria inner circle member confided in me that Burton’s plans for the Fellowship, the community, and the absurd “new civilization” fable, only took into account Burton’s own lifetime. He has never planned for any continuation beyond that. This “counter-offensive” being undertaken by the Fellowship leadership and high-ranking operatives is meant to keep Burton safe from lawsuits and persecution for his few remaining months or years (in the same way that the armed “militia” keeps Burton physically safe).

Burton is certainly not concerned about the potential loss of new members from the recent revelations. Almost no one is joining anyway, and donations are now so low for the first couple of years (actually, zero for those who catch Burton’s attention, if you know what I mean), as to have no impact on Fellowship finances.

Whatever we, the ex- and non-members, are doing, visibly or quietly, is having a cumulative effect. Burton is showing himself to be deeply worried about being publicly humiliated, not to mention losing his boys, toys, and personal retirement home called Apollo.

69. WhaleRider - August 29, 2022

Cult Cranks Up the Juice

Zap House, CA~In keeping with his cult’s stated purpose: to shock his followers into the present by any means possible, no matter how lurid or morally bankrupt, cult leader Robert E Burton has now jacked up the voltage of his cherished sadistic role.

Bored members of the Fellowship of Friends are now asked to deploy the tasers they have been recently issued to shock the living daylights out of any member caught daydreaming, staring hopelessly off into space, burping during dinners, for being late with mandatory donations or blowjobs, or making any disparaging comments about anyone or anything including the weather.

“We had no choice, really, given all the shocking exposure of the cult in the media these days and revelations made on recent podcasts, or the documentaries in the works. Our older members were getting emotionally numb and prone to napping. And now that Robert has completely emerged from the closet, nothing was shocking to them anymore,” stated one incredibly bored member. “He could give someone a blowjob in the middle of 5th Avenue in broad daylight and still not lose any members.”

“Lately Robert keeps telling everyone how awake they are too, and so we were forced to employ enhanced spiritual advancement techniques to remind them when they start to doze off” said another insanely bored member, “the tasers were Robert’s idea. He loves to see people squirm.”

70. crossroads - September 22, 2022

Expert(s) say:
“Once there is a contract with the narcissist,
one becomes the narcissist.
What do the narcissist want? Fantasy.
What happens when Reality manifests blatantly?
Fantasy brakes and narcissist destroys, as a frustrated and enraged 18 month old child that has been abused/neglected, and ultimately chained up in a dark cave at the very core of the self. Now, the fantasy will have to re-emerge for survival”

71. WhaleRider - September 23, 2022

Cult Leader’s Head Searched for Classified Information

Apollo-Largo, CA~Agents of reason have recently searched Cult Leader Donald Burton’s delusional brain for classified information of secret esoteric knowledge rightfully belonging to mankind’s elite inner circle but have found only old, worn out boxes of borrowed phrases from those much smarter than him, phrases he can’t even remember anymore without the help of his enablers to prompt him.

To borrow a phrase from Descartes, Burton apparently says to himself and his followers, “I think I am awake, therefore I am” and they believe him, dutifully ignoring all evidence to the contrary. It appears “the brightest light in 2000 years” is in reality just a flicker of hopes, wishes and dreams.

Additionally, his sprawling empire of fraud and deceit spanning decades that he claims to be “priceless” has been deemed to be grossly over-valued and overrated. Far from being “the greatest one and only true school of human evolution”, his criminal enterprise has been exposed for trafficking destitute young males from struggling foreign nations to feed his unquenchable sexual appetite.

A visit to the cult leader’s creepy residence and you will hear his oppressive collection of antique clocks all ticking in unison to mark the time when this rape factory will finally be shut down.

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