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Fellowship Of Friends/Fourth Way School/Living Presence Discussion – Page 183 October 14, 2019

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Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Living Presence Discussion.

Here, you can share your thoughts, your stories, your own experiences as a former member of the FOF.  If you are considering becoming a member, you are invited to read the discussion to better know the organization you are considering joining; we welcome your questions. Participants in the discussion may post under their own name, or anonymously.

The first comment of all new participants will be moderated before they can start communicating in real-time.  You will need to register with a valid email address and be able to reply to the welcome/verification email you will receive. If you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear within a day after it has been submitted; any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, such as personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion anonymously will prompt a warning. Continued abuse will result in your removal from the discussion.

To visit the official site of The  Fellowship Of Friends;

http://livingpresence.com/

Comments

1. Ocean Tiger - October 15, 2019

Thank you to everyone who purchased my book exposing Robert Burton and The Fellowship of Friends called “Ocean Tiger On A Volcano.” As a token of my gratitude, the book is now available at a lower cost of $14. Please email me if you have any questions: age.of.gaia@mail.com

https://app.thebookpatch.com/BookStore/ocean-tiger-on-a-volcano/2c95fe3d-0d62-489a-9e65-bc9c153eb91a

2. amesgilbert1 - October 15, 2019

With all this attention on the lunatic Robert Earl Burton and his long–running and increasingly degenerate fantasies, let us not forget the ‘school’ organized by Robert Earl Burton’s long–time disciple, closest confidante, and co–inventor of ‘The Sequence’™, Asaf Braverman.

Asaf is still running this BePeriod.com © ‘school’, both in cyber space and physically. Over the last few months, he has been advertising “Free Introductory workshops hosted by BePeriod students” on various topics. This week’s offering:
“What is Work on self-development? Where to begin and which steps to take?
Join us for an introductory workshop hosted by BePeriod students aimed at opening a window into this topic. We will invite questions, and follow the workshop with a two-day group exercise on WhatsApp.”
Those interested in exploring more should note the words, “We will invite questions”. That may be true on the face of it, but it so happens that the platform he has chosen allows him to disregard any awkward or uncomfortable questions, and ensure that other followers never get to see them or ponder on their possible meaning, let alone receive meaningful answers. In other words, he has full power of censorship, and this power is hidden.

I’m not privy to what goes on in the web pages open only to members who join his organization and pay dues, but as yet there is no mention yet of “The Sequence” (which he co–invented with the insane Robert Earl Burton) on publicly viewable pages. Rather, these seem a mixture of the usual Fourth Way basics as promulgated by Ouspensky and Asaf’s own interpretations of religious motifs, written and visual, from around the world. He introduced many of these novel interpretations while still a member of the Fellowship of Friends, well before his fall from grace and expulsion from the Fellowship of Friends a couple of years ago. I have no idea if he still subscribes to or ‘teaches’ the full panoply of numerology and symbology so beloved by the arch–superstitious Burton, on which this “Sequence” is based. Really, it doesn’t matter, it’s all bullshit all the way.

It is apparent that the guy has a superb memory for Ouspensky’s words. And he likely has a strong belief that Burton’s previous claims that he, Asaf, was destined to become ‘conscious’ under the tutelage of Burton actually came true, and hence he is qualified to ‘teach’ the Fourth Way, including the essential transmission of energies that supposedly only someone who has ‘already escaped’ can pass on to the next generation of prospective escapees.

But there is no getting away from the milieu that he was submerged in for twenty years, the setting where the Fourth Way was distorted beyond recognition and twisted and shoe–horned into a religion with Burton featuring as the Founding God, and later abandoned for twelve years, only to be taken up again as the bait in Burton’s ‘Bait and Switch’ scheme when funds ran low.

And there is no getting away from the fact that Asaf Braverman was anointed by Robert Earl Burton, the God–Emperor of Oregon House© as a “Future Conscious Being”™, and that he enthusiastically assumed the role of ‘leadership’ and ‘teaching’ and fundraising that reflected this important prediction, over many, many years.

So, Asaf Braverman is no innocent bystander temporarily bedazzled by the Grand Charlatan, he shared Burton’s interests, beliefs, vast income (and possibly, bed), for decades. Not only that, he was centrally placed at the abandonment of the admittedly superficial study of the philosophy known as the Fourth Way and the turning instead to “The Sequence”, a philosophy of numerology, superstition, symbology and practice he co–invented with Burton. This history shows he is INEVITABLY CORRUPTED and TOTALLY UNQUALIFIED to teach anything about the Fourth Way. Rather, he actively helped Burton poison the well and continues to do so, no matter what he claims or infers—IMHO.

3. John Harmer - October 20, 2019

This little article discusses the theory that the moon has some spooky paranormal influence on humans, along with a brief mention of cognitive bias. I now see that theory as a kind of “gateway drug” to the full paranoid panoply of mystical woo woo that the Fellowship is drenched in. Once you’ve mastered your cognitive bias to “verify” the effect of the moon phases, you are ready to “verify” C-Influence and their trick of writing the play of all fee paying members. In readiness for the money shot – C-Influence want you to suck the Burton cock.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2019/08/16/full-moon-effect-lunacy-odd-behavior/#.XaxvUOhKhEZ

4. JoeyVirgo - October 20, 2019

Somewhat of an Interesting article if I want to put a positive spin on the content, but I’m not sure if it’s really scientific, however. Just because words show up in Discovery magazine doesn’t mean there’s much science behind the words.

“Researchers” (whoever they are and however poorly or highly qualified they are is not mentioned; they could be student drones for all we know) poured over hospital and police records and found: “No uptick in births, no synced up menstrual periods and no madness.” Is that all they were looking for? Nothing “stranger” than usual. How to define “strange”? No discussion in the article.

The article admits the moon pulls on the earth regarding tides, for example, but somehow human beings are completely exempt from such a pull — yet the article omits any explanation as to why that is the case.

Are we not all part of the Earth right down to our gas, mineral, and water content? There must be some sort of invisible barrier preventing men and women from experiencing the moon’s pull even though men and women are made up of 80 percent water. Hmmmm…..

This article merely dogmatically asserts that the sole arbiter of truth is not science but a handful of researchers representing science saying the moon has no pull on human beings. According to the article, even doctors are not scientists. But “researchers” are? Not a very deep article or incisive point of view. More like a People’s magazine point of view in my humble opinion, nothing higher or more incisive.

I get it, though. We’re supposed to be too advanced to believe in such superstitions and some researchers did some research, no actual testing for falsifiablilty, however; and we’re supposed to believe the researchers and this article rather than believe doctors, policemen, hospitals, or are own experience, etc. Yeah, believing in the moon’s pull may have some cognitive advantage in terms of feeling safe, but the world is unpredictable — made ever more so by science itself and technology — so believers in the moon’s pull are just being subjective and self-serving. Why? Because the article writer says so.

This is an article only about belief and who or what you choose to believe. Cool science or backward, bone-in-the-nose paganism. The article itself has a cognitive bias and is subjective.

5. John Harmer - October 20, 2019

#4 JoeyVirgo I do agree the article is journalism rather than a scientific paper, and expresses a point of view rather than presenting a case. I happen to agree with it, but we all have a point of view of course.

However I do feel I should respond to your thoughts about the effect of gravity. I am not aware that anyone who expresses the view that the Moon doesn’t have some paranormal effect on our consciousness requires a denial that our bodies are affected by the gravitational pull of the moon. However the effect is very small compared to the gravitational effect of the Earth on our bodies a rough calculation suggests we could be lighter by about .3g when the moon is directly overhead. I have taken the time to reply on this apparently minor point because it is dished up by Rodney Collin in his theory of celestial influence and taken as reasonable by nearly all FoF students.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-the-orbit-of-the-Moon-affect-my-weight

6. JoeyVirgo - October 20, 2019

5. John Harmer

Well, either the “pull” of the moon affects our bodies or it doesn’t.

The article mentioned nothing about “paranormal” and my comment also mentioned nothing about it either. Psychology is not necessarily “paranormal.” If the “pull” is small in comparison to the gravitational effect of the Earth, what does “small” mean? Negligible? Harmless? Immaterial? In what way? And how does one go about proving this claim? By having a handful of researchers do a one-time investigation of some hospital records? By citing some strangers from Quora? By believing in these poor examples of scientific evidence? By positing a numeric value to it? There has to be more substantive evidence than this — but I think nobody really can do this research or has done it.

Perhaps scientists find the subject risible to begin with and believe themselves to have bigger, more worthy projects to explore, such that little intellectual acumen or scientific know-how need be applied to the topic of the moon’s influence.

Which is one means why myths grow and beliefs spread since science hasn’t definitely cleared away the mental haze.

Scientists haven’t done a very good job, for example, educating the public on the evidence for so-called “global warming,” because scientists aren’t doing science when they are corrupted by money and political power-plays. The media is “educating” the public in “science” instead.

And we don’t really understand how the universe works (let alone gravity, but plenty of people pretend that they know and if they claim to be an expert we believe them). Some scientists view the universe as fixed, predictable, reductive, and dead. Others see it as a mysterious, alive, and inexplicable.

I feel myself generally on your side of wanting to be scientific about this subject, but I think the moon’s influence can be argued both ways or either way as I tried to demonstrate here, because what passes for “science” is often pseudo-science or bad or inadequate science, relying not so much on evidence-based proofs as on common fallacious arguments from authority (the article).

I’ve never seen or read a full-blown, scientific analysis proving or disproving the moon’s influence on human psychology in any way that is an actual QED proof. Most treatments I’ve encountered — even in science books — are just like the Discovery magazine article — mostly thumbnail assertions and claims made in favor of the scientific viewpoint but with very little support or evidence other than the claim abut small or minor “gravitational” effects measured only by a mathematical standard, just like the one you’ve asserted here. Nothing to do with psychology at all — ever.

It may be the case that the scientific attitude finds the subject risible enough as to not be bothered with it as a serious topic. Why deal with those mental cases who howl at the full moon and think moon bathing is healthy?

But the issue about the moon’s influence isn’t ultimately important to us former ex-members of the Fellowship as a scientific fact, I think. It’s more about how other people avoid being responsible for their emotional reactions by blaming them on their foolish notions about the moon, in effect saying, “The Moon made made me do it.” Your concern, I believe, is about people being deluded in their thinking enough to justify negativity in their reactions by taking no responsibility for them whatsoever. Am I right?

Thus, by eliminating an individual’s excuse mechanism by demonstration to him or her that science has invalidated the moon’s influence on behavior, then the individual cognitively has to accept responsibility for his or her emotional responses — as if there are only these two alternatives.

Being responsible for our actions and responses and having control over them are two different kinds of human endeavors, and one needn’t believe in the moon’s influence to see the difficulty behind consistently controlling one’s emotions or thoughts on a consistent basis throughout life. I think the notion that we are fully in control of ourselves is itself a popular self-help delusion. That we have to be responsible, however, for our responses and actions is, of course, the only rational choice if we want to avoid completely chaos and insanity.

7. John Harmer - October 21, 2019

#6 My concern was not about individuals blaming planetary alignments for their emotional reactions. I was rather analysing the mechanism by which I became hoodwinked into “verifying” things that weren’t true. I feel I fell for it, and once I had “verified” that one thing, others more insidious, such as that coincidences prove the influence of higher forces, were easier to agree to.

8. JoeyVirgo - October 21, 2019

8. John Harmer

Okay, but your current explanation doesn’t coincide with your earlier remark on the prior page, 182 no. 28, where you write: ” Someone is in a bad mood, they say to others in the room, is it a moon phase? Well it was often a day or so from one of the phases (which are every 2 weeks after all), and if it wasn’t, the person in a bad mood would just say “Oh well it must be some other planetary alignment then” So either way they “verified” that there was some spooky astrological influence going on.

Why would people buy into this? Well it allowed them to forgive themselves for feeling negative (a cardinal sin after all) as the moon phase and other planetary alignments were not their direct responsibility, unlike their petty identifications and lack of ability to separate from their play.”

It was my understanding of the above passage that I made the statements I did. My mistake.

Glad you posted the article, anyway. At least It was some food for thought.

9. John Harmer - October 21, 2019

#8 JoeyVirgo OK I think I understand your points.

Those of us who were the right type to get sucked into the FoF world found ourselves assenting to a false magical world view that we found it difficult to recognise as such, and therefore did not try to resist. Similar to the Yesidi boy in Gurdjieff’s autobiography. Information such as the body types, chief feature, centres of gravity deployed by kindly people, giving us photographs, assuring us that we had found the real deal, and that all was required were our efforts and commitment to enable us to enter the magic kingdom. I see the moonphase theory as a small part of that web that trapped us. We needed to be sufficiently spell bound before the ugly truth about Burton’s true purpose was revealed to us. The gossip task helped delay that day. I can remember hearing about his having young men as lovers, and thinking “Well that is none of my business”. It was only when someone explained how he had been forced to engage in acts he abhorred, that the horrific truth became clear. Burton had manipulated the good intentions of those who study the Gurdjieff system to enable him to set up an outfit where he was able gorge himself on innocent young men to his hearts content, and no one would stop him.

I believe that one way to escape that prison is to use the tools that science provides to doubt the dogmas that entrapped us.

10. JoeyVirgo - October 21, 2019

The Press Democrat for October 21 states:

“Pacific Gas and Electric Co. officials are planning for a possible power outage later this week for all or parts of 17 counties spanning the North Bay to the Sierra Nevada foothills due to forecasts of hot, dry and windy weather conditions.”

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/10203121-181/pge-considers-new-power-shutdown

11. JoeyVirgo - October 21, 2019

9. John Harmer

Thanks.

“I believe that one way to escape that prison is to use the tools that science provides to doubt the dogmas that entrapped us.”

I know. I said so in my earlier comment, and agreed.

Science can serve as a kind of disinfectant, an anti-brainwashing technique for deprogramming us. For me, the study of Aristotle and logic helped me get out from under the mystic web. Looking into atheism also helped me. Aristotle’s philosophy, logic, and atheism align themselves with an objective and scientific outlook.

“The gossip task helped delay that day.”

For me, that no-gossip rule was the king pin for trapping members in a cult. It was the trap for those whom Robert abused and no one would believe them when they spoke out. It was only “gossip” and “negativity.”

It definitely was a self-serving rule for Robert, guaranteeing success in hiding his behavior from public awareness.

As soon as I learned Robert was involved with serious hanky-panky while hypocritically demanding that others of his sexual persuasion marry in order to control their sex centers, I was out of there. Yes, it helped to learn how many men suffered from not being heard or understood as well as from having been abused, but my conscience was clear the minute I learned the facts. This had nothing to do with homosexual relations. It had all to do with manipulation, hypocrisy, and preying on the innocent, sensitive, and vulnerable.

There are Christians in the world, in particular, who still believe in the gossip rule, and they think they’re being virtuous by not gossiping, but I learned that gossip is also a lifeline or a lifesaver as a consequence of my experience in the Fellowship. Not all gossip is false, “negative,” or merely rumor or theory. It’s informal, direct, and practical information, too.

12. JoeyVirgo - October 22, 2019

PG&E Power Shutoff for Northern California Counties, including Yuba County, starting this Wednesday night:

https://abc7news.com/society/list-areas-affected-by-pg-e-power-outage-in-california/5636609/

13. JoeyVirgo - October 22, 2019

PG&E may need to proactively turn off power for safety reasons to approximately 209,000 customers in Northern California beginning late Wednesday evening.

Here’s a list of all the counties and cities that could be impacted by outages — and Yuba County is included in this list:

https://abc7news.com/society/list-areas-affected-by-pg-e-power-outage-in-california/5636609/

14. Tim Campion - October 22, 2019

JV,

They DO get the news in Oregon House. (Probably even at Apollo!)

15. JoeyVirgo - October 22, 2019

14. Tim Campion

And I understand “they” also have generators, too!

16. Rich - October 23, 2019

11.JoeyVirgo:”As soon as I learned Robert was involved with serious
hanky-panky while hypocritically demanding that others of his
sexual persuasion marry in order to control their sex centers, I
was out of there.”
Me too. Also Uncle Bob wrecked many hetro-relations by
forcing the male.

17. brucelevy - October 23, 2019

16. Rich Yup, he did.

18. JoeyVirgo - October 23, 2019

16. Rich

Thanks for your comment voicing a similar perspective and action taken as I had and took.

I presented this information to Miles Barth back in early 1982, and he was completely flummoxed by the news, which told me he was far from being close to becoming a “conscious being,” however much I thought he was a fairly decent guy. That he didn’t know and/or couldn’t cope with the news told me I was never going to receive second-line work-help from him or anyone in the “hierarchy.”

I also know Uncle Bob wrecked many hetero-relations, particularly when I found out wives were “happy” to give their husbands over to his abuse. How could a marriage survive this arrangement? Your mate lets you get abused and she says nothing in your defense? As a husband, you are sexually abused and then you’re supposed to resume normal relations with your wife in the next instant– without missing a beat?

19. JoeyVirgo - October 23, 2019

16. Rich

At the time of my discovery, the only person I knew who knew about the full extent of Robert’s duplicity in advising homosexuals to marry while he carried on with heterosexual, married men was Stella Wirk.

Did you have any body to help you come to terms with “the knowledge” of Uncle Bob’s hypocrisy like I did with Stella like a second pair of eyes examining the situation? How did you manage the difficult transition from the Fellowship to everyday life if it’s not too personal?

Mostly everybody I was friends with in the Fellowship, besides Stella, bought “the official story” hook, line, and stinker, and I felt very alone in making the decision to leave the Fellowship. I left even without any money in my pocket because I had just paid off the ranch donation and had to borrow money from my parents just to put a first downpayment on a small apartment once I left “the teaching house.” I was employed but I gave Uncle Bob my very last dime before I departed, and had saved nothing for myself in case of an emergency in the future.

20. Rich - October 23, 2019

19.JoeyVirgo:there were rumors when I lived on the ranch in late
seventies for six months. I overheard students arguing, trying
to put up a defense for Uncle Bob like “so and so was conscious
and he was gay”, stuff like that. But I was forced out like Stella
because I couldn’t pay the second smoking fine placed on me.
I became homeless, but soon found a job and place to live through
social services. I think the conversation I overheard in ‘the barn’
was ’78. I wouldn’t say I confirmed his abuse but doubt was planted
and being thrown out lead to soul searching. I made no plans to
ever return.

21. JoeyVirgo - October 23, 2019

20. Rich

Thanks for your reply. Oh, my goodness! Until this moment, I had not heard of anyone else, besides Stella, having received any fine, whether first time or second, for smoking. Thanks for telling me about your experience. When I “missed” a teaching payment in my second year, I was called out by Linda Rockwood and the Director of the Center in such a way that I felt trammeled by them and everyone within hearing distance, saying, “Tramp feature! Tramp feature!” I can only imagine how you must have felt.

Did you know anyone else beside yourself and Stella who may have been fined a second time as well? I wonder if the number of fines was more numerous than I had suspected or understood.

I was a smoker, too, but I felt I had something to prove to myself, wishfully thinking that somehow I’d get a pat on the head from Uncle Bob if I stopped.

But had I found I wasn’t able to quit after all and then learned I had to pay for failing — aren’t we all machines who cannot “do” without higher consciousness helping us? so what’s with the financial punishment? — I’d have rethought the whole Master Game, too, and knowing Uncle Bob was a pervert to boot, well, I’d have had enough then myself to reason with and understand this wasn’t the group for me if even any group was for me.

Re smoking: After I left the Fellowship, I took up smoking again — out of rebellion for all the “control” I had exerted on myself in the six years I was in the FoF, and I continued to smoke for the next twenty years, quitting again only when a doctor told me I was developing symptoms of COPD. Weirdly, I myself found it easier to quit smoking when in the Fellowship (when I was under 30 years of age) than when I was on my own at 55 years of age, but I did quit again — and it was after almost thirty years of smoking. It was the hardest tasks I’d ever had to complete in my life.

Stella had had a good many years behind her as a smoker, too. I had succeeded at one point in quitting and even got a certificate of success from Kaiser Hospital, but then onceI got the certificate, I bought another pack of cigarettes in order to celebrate. I clearly wasn’t ready to quit and needed a health insufficiency finally to motivate me.

RB abused the non-smoking task with students no differently from his abuse of his students in other ways, taking their money while finding ways to use them in order to serve him or his own ends (no pun intended).

22. JoeyVirgo - October 23, 2019

16. Rich

Homeless. That news was for me a lot to take in, which is why I didn’t respond until now. I remember you earlier had mentioned Stella having to get rid of her two dogs, and I just laughed. Not because I’m insensitive, but it was rb’s outlandish request that made me laugh in outrage. Stella likely was very hurt by this demand and I never knew about it until you had mentioned it here.

For nearly four months I had a small bout of homelessness when I was in my early 20s, after finishing college. My parents threw me out — saying they were tired of paying for my room and board and it was time for me to get a job. Without a place to sleep, living on the streets, it’s very hard to find work because you have no address and no money even to buy a mailbox. And you’re prey for violent strangers and perverts, too.

If you don’t mind answering, were you working at Renaissance and that time so that when you left you had no job to help you through the transition? I’m amazed you got help through social services. That must have been the golden age of social services. Was it merely a temporary kind of job or did it lead to something lasting for you?

23. Rich - October 23, 2019

22.JoeyVirgo:times were different back then. I left in ’80. I worked
for 5 or 6 years in construction after the fire in the East Bay Area SF,
retrofitting for earthquakes, before the invasion of unskilled labor
from south of the border. Had problems with the booze, I don’t drink
anymore or smoke either.
I was no longer at Renaissance when I left but was managing a teaching house until the property was sold. I moved in with
another student (as did someone else in the teaching house)
in a non-teaching house situation, that is there were “life people”.
If I remember correctly, I was receiving SSI money. The construction
work was off the books.

24. JoeyVirgo - October 23, 2019

23. Rich

Thanks for letting me in on some of your life. Construction is hard work. Glad you got paid off the books. That was a small help, eh?

I know an ex-FoFer who still works in construction at 72 years of age and hasn’t retired yet. He was in the FoF for 12 years. He picked up some construction skills at Renaissance and got self-employed as a construction supervisor after leaving and just keeps working. He’s thin as a skeleton. No biceps. He holds to “the Work” even now, all by himself. I hope he retires soon to experience something in life other than work before the Grim Reaper arrives.

I’m glad to learn you’re taking care of your health, Rich.

25. Associated Press - October 24, 2019

On the topic of Robert Earl Burton wreaking havoc on heterosexual relationships: Robert Earl Burton reserves the right to suck semen from any heterosexual male Fellowhip of Friends member even to the extent of requiring it after a marraige ceremony and before the consummation of the union with the spouse. So, you can imagine what kind of wreaking havoc there is in the non-heterosexual community within the Fellowhip of Friends community.

26. JoeyVirgo - October 24, 2019

25. Associated Press

“So, you can imagine what kind of wreaking havoc there is in the non-heterosexual community within the Fellowhip of Friends community.”

Actually, I can’t imagine. Perhaps you can set the pace and give us of those with limited imaginations for this kind of experience a thumb-nail sketch of what you mean or what you are suggesting, do you think?

27. ton2u - October 24, 2019

@ 25

Sounds like a perverted version of a twisted “legal right” from the “dark ages” – jus primae noctis – ‘right of the first night’ – which allowed feudal lords in medieval Europe to have sexual relations with a subordinate woman on her wedding night.

It’s a way to keep the peasantry in their place, and to show the flock who’s ‘boss.’

28. Phutatorius - October 24, 2019

#25 AP: Ick! I’m glad I got out when I did.

29. Golden Veil - October 28, 2019

19. JoeyVirgo – October 23, 2019

“… Robert’s duplicity in advising homosexuals to marry while he carried on with heterosexual, married men…”

Were those the old days – whereas presently Burton’s paramours are all single men of foreign birth (wait, is Dorian married?)

Regarding the October meeting in Ahmedabad (India) led by long-time Fellowship of Friends member David Tuttle that is advertised in an online newspaper, the Ahmedabad Mirror – as noticed on the Robert Earl Burton blog here:

https://robertearlburton.blogspot.com/2019/10/recruiting-in-ahmedabad.html

Could this ad be promoting the Fellowship of Friends for the ultimate purpose of human trafficking – of men to R. Burton? Or is that a silly idea given Burton’s age. Could he still be “insatiable” ?

Should the authorities be forewarned?

https://www.payahmedabadechallan.org/

30. John Harmer - October 28, 2019

#29 “Tuttle?…Are you from central services?”

“Things don’t fix themselves :-)”

31. JoeyVirgo - October 28, 2019

29. Golden Veil

To answer your question, the time-period I was referring to coincided with my membership at FoF, and concerns the years between 1975 and 1984, in particular. I think time may be referred to as the “old days.” That Arbie now gets his men mostly from foreign countries has little to do with homosexual members of the FoF, past or present, whom Arbie advised to become married in order to control their sexual urges.

Whether Arbie actually continues to advise his homosexual members in this way today, I have no idea. Associated Press at #25 said, “So, you can imagine what kind of wreaking havoc there is in the non-heterosexual community within the Fellowhip of Friends community.” Again, I cannot imagine, because I have no idea what’s going on in today’s version of the FoF, particularly if Arbie is no longer being hypocritical but is out as a flaming, degenerate faggot for all to see. Maybe it’s all one big fellatio-ship for homosexual members: I do not know.

I don’t know David Tuttle, but I knew of a Paul Tuttle whom Stella Wirk once recommended to me after we both left the Fellowship. He was a psychic channeler and ran his own psychic business enterprise in the 1980s. I wonder if the two are related. Paul Tuttle had a son, if I recall rightly.

32. Golden Veil - October 29, 2019

31. JoeyVirgo – October 28, 2019

Thanks for clarifying your timeline. Perhaps someone who’s a fairly recent dropout from the Fellowship of Friends like Insider or Cult Survivor could let us know if the word’s out whether “Arby” has retired from needing procurer students to find him fresh meat and is now abstaining from group sex and his strange rituals with men about to be married – and now solely has only rather platonic love interests, that is, boy toys for companionship rather than sexual partners.

By the way, I don’t like this kind of pejorative name calling “flaming, degenerate faggot”. There are many people who are gay and not coercing same sex from their heterosexual, vulnerable spiritual followers. That’s one of the main character and morality problems with ‘Arby”, along with instigating what is practically slave labor, bait and switch come ons for “Gurdjieff Work”, getting his bamboozled students into debt in order to pay for his travel junkets, silly silk and cashmere clothes and fine jewelry and antiques.

30. John Harmer – October 28, 2019

What the heck movie is that, Brazil, or? With Jonathan Pryce and Robert De Niro?!

33. John Harmer - October 29, 2019

#32 Golden Veil, yep it’s from Brazil. It imparts an heroic connotation to the name Tuttle.

I was surprised that the notice in the Ahmedabad Mirror online site contains two grammatical errors. I used to think of the Fellowship as a bastion of obsessive “doing things correctly”ness. 🙂

“dedicating itself to share” should be “to sharing”

“esoteric methods to awakening” should be “of awakening”

and as a point of style “self-development developed” is clumsy.

34. JoeyVirgo - October 29, 2019

32. Golden Veil

“Perhaps someone who’s a fairly recent dropout from the Fellowship of Friends like Insider or Cult Survivor could let us know if the word’s out whether “Arby” has retired from needing procurer students to find him fresh meat. . . ”

Yes, perhaps someone as you’ve described can — but no one to date ever has and likely never will. Homosexuality may be “legal” but there’s a lot of secrecy and shame associated with it as well, making it difficult for many people to speak openly for themselves.

“By the way, I don’t like this kind of pejorative name calling “flaming, degenerate faggot”. There are many people who are gay and not coercing same sex from their heterosexual, vulnerable spiritual followers.”

Many gay people not coercing same sex from heterosexuals do not do deserve pejorative name-calling — absolutely agreed and I clearly have not participated in that endeavor here. I did not and do not use pejorative terms for such people — only for Arbie who is even more than a flaming degenerate faggot — he’s a piece of shit pedophile and rapist.

I like calling things and people as they are. Political correctness is what has allowed rapists, degenerates, and pedophiles, to name just a small number of enemies of civilization and society, to gain more leverage in the public sphere.

35. Rich - October 29, 2019

Due to the told damage that Robert Burton caused and continues to
cause, hopefully there’s some spiritual judgement coming his way
soon as he’s a clever con-man escaping earthly jail.

36. Insider - November 4, 2019

Many of you remember Peter Morrow. Last Thursday, Oct 31, Peter (as usual) was flying his own plane. He took off from the airport in Ocala, Florida, (apparently) something malfunctioned, and the plane crashed while attempting an emergency landing. Peter and a mechanic on board were killed on impact.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20191104/jamaican-hotelier-peter-morrow-killed-florida-plane-crash

37. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: NXIVM
Aired on: May 28, 2018 Duration: ~41m 14s

A self-help group accused of deceit is examined closely by host Elizabeth Vargas, and she spends time talking with former members of the organization in order to develop a broader awareness of the challenges faced by individuals in the group.
Credits: Elizabeth Vargas (Host), Sarah Edmondson (Participant)

As a recruiter for multi-level marketing self-help group NXIVM, Sarah Edmondson brought thousands of people to the organization. In October of 2017, she exposed the group as a destructive sex-cult and is now doing everything in her power to support the criminal prosecution of the cult’s leader, Keith Raniere.

Elizabeth Vargas examines NXIVM, an organization that sells “self-help” seminars that they claim give people the tools they need to get their lives together and allow them to make a difference in the world. However, the group led by Keith Raniere, referred to by followers as Vanguard, stands accused of drawing supporters down a path of destruction that includes near-starvation diets, sexual assault, forced branding, pseudo-slavery, and blackmail. Luring in many high-profile Hollywood actresses to evangelize for his cause over its 20 years in operation, Raniere was recently arrested in Mexico and charged with sex trafficking, among other crimes. Former members of NXIVM share harrowing experiences of manipulation and sexual violation.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469662/s01_e01_nxivm

38. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: Jehovah’s Witnesses
Aired on: May 29, 2018 Duration: ~44m 7s

A former member of Jehovah’s Witness searches for answers to the past she has endured involving childhood sexual abuse, and why she was ignored by top members of the organization when she attempted to plead for help and justice.
Credits: Elizabeth Vargas (Host), Romy Maple (Participant)

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469686/s01_e03_jehovahs_witnesses

39. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: Children of God
Aired on: Jun 05, 2018 Duration: ~43m 58s

Amy Bril recounts her childhood growing up in the Children of God, a group notorious for pedophilia and “religious” prostitution. Amy and others born and raised in the group are banding together to address a suicide epidemic among fellow survivors.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469392/s01_e02_children_of_god

40. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: Children of God
Aired on: Jun 12, 2018 Duration: ~43m 19s

Growing up in the United Nation of Islam (UNOI), Elijah Muhammad was forced into child labor, physical abuse and squalid living conditions. Today, he has a unique opportunity to speak to the FBI in hope of getting justice for himself and the other children abused by UNOI and its leader, Royall Jenkins’, teachings.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469514/s01_e04_u_n_o_i

41. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: World Peace and Unification Sanctuary
Aired on: Jun 19, 2018 Duration: ~42m 51s

Elizabeth Vargas investigates controversial religious organizations and sects, uncovering how these groups prey upon their followers and create powerful, often destructive belief systems.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469657/s01_e05_world_peace_unification_sanctuary/

42. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: Twelve Tribes
Aired on: Jun 26, 2018 Duration: ~42m 43s

Despite their hippie persona and rustic community businesses, The Twelve Tribes have long stood accused of physically abusing children and subjugating of women. Now disconnected from her family, ex-member Samie Brosseau, works to expose the Twelve Tribes abusive practices today.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469390/s01_e06_twelve_tribes/

43. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: FLDS
[Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints]
Aired on: Jul 03, 2018 Duration: ~42m 37s

Many believed that when Warren Jeffs was sentenced to life in prison for child sexual assault, the problems within the FLDS community would be solved–the group would disperse and members would wake up and leave the church. However, when Jeffs was locked away, it left devoted FLDS followers like Norma Richter to face a subsequent humanitarian crisis alone, and forced to fend for themselves in a world they were once taught to fear.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469391/s01_e07_flds_105/

44. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: The Survivors Speak Part 1
Aired on: Jul 15, 2018 Duration: ~42m 11s

Former members of different groups meet to discuss their shared experiences with Elizabeth Vargas.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469656/s01_e08_the_survivors_speak_part_1/

45. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Cults and Extreme Beliefs: The Survivors Speak Part 2
Aired on: Jul 22, 2018

Former members of different groups meet to discuss their shared experiences with Elizabeth Vargas.

https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/469515/s01_e09_the_survivors_speak_part_2/

46. brucelevy - November 5, 2019

WonderingWhosWatching

Is that you Nigel?

47. WonderingWhosWatching - November 5, 2019

Sorry, made error, #40 should read:
Cults and Extreme Beliefs: U.N.O.I.
not:
Cults and Extreme Beliefs: Children of God

48. amesgilbert1 - November 5, 2019

Bruce, WWW has a long history on this blog, and I have never seen any of the hallmarks of an NHP in WWW’s posts. Although I personally don’t have the time to delve into so many 3/4 hour–long episodes, I think they would be excellent studies of not only the groups involved and their dynamics, but also how the MSM treats such groups; thus useful for any explorers interested in these issues.
IMHO, of course.

49. brucelevy - November 5, 2019

48. amesgilbert1

Thanks Ames. My mistake. Apologies to Wondering.

50. Phutatorius - November 5, 2019

Another source on the Morrow crash: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/230310

51. Golden Veil - November 5, 2019

36. Insider – November 4, 2019

It’s sad that someone who loved flying so much died in his own plane. The newsworthiness of those with wealth is especially apparent here; who was the mechanic?

50. Phutatorious – November 5, 2019

Thanks for the link. This particular news video includes an interview with a flight school instructor who makes a poignant comment about how pilots are taught to aim to minimize injury to those on the ground in an impending crash. The person in the SUV was very unlucky that day…

https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2019/10/31/ocala-aircraft-accident

Will someone please post a link to Peter Morrow’s In Memoriam page when it is up.

52. Tim Campion - November 5, 2019

Here is Peter Morrow’s memorial page on the Fellowship’s Elysian Society website:

http://www.elysiansociety.org/in-memory/peter-morrow/

53. Insider - November 5, 2019

51. Golden Veil

The In Memoriam page has been set up on the Greater Fellowship site. If you are a member, you can go in now and link to it. If not, you have to become a member first.

54. amesgilbert1 - November 5, 2019

The Elysian Society quotes the God–Emperor of Oregon House: “Robert said that it is a strong shock for the school that happened on Halloween, and that it is much worse than the death of his mother. Nothing wrong occurred with Peter.”

The empty charlatan mouths off whereof he knows nothing. Dead inside, a walking corpse, whose passage through this life has brought needless, avoidable agony and suffering to hundreds and thousands who made the mistake of trusting him. There is no ‘school’, there is no ‘teacher’, he has no idea what a ‘shock’ is, he lies about any possible connection to Halloween, and if the ‘shock’ is ‘much worse than the death of his mother’, then that again shows his inability to show simple gratitude for the one who passed on the gift of life. Not to mention bringing himself and his random thoughts to the center of attention of his followers yet again. And to cap it all, the phrase “Nothing wrong occurred with Peter”. Devoid of all meaning, just a jumble of random words coming from the addled and addicted brain. However, one can be confident that his followers will labor mightily to provide meaning— just as they have always done. After all, those labors give their lives meaning.

It is a given that his followers will happily ignore the dissonance and apply a large dose of magical thinking to cover Burton’s shallowness and lies. They will avert the discomfort of knowing that, should they die before Burton, their deaths will be summarily dealt with the same way—that is, how can I, Robert Earl Burton, somehow twist his or her death to my psychological advantage? The irony is, Peter M. must have seen this manipulation happen over and over again in his long, way overlong sojourn in the Fellowship of Friends.

55. John Harmer - November 6, 2019

#54 A great analysis of Burton’s reaction to Peter Morrow’s death. I particularly liked the description “empty charlatan”. As I understand it one of the characteristics of a psychopath is that they do not feel empathy with others. But they notice it is valued by the herd, and learn to mimic the behaviour they see in empathetic individuals (while despising their weakness and plotting how to exploit it)

It reminded me of a little anecdote that someone related to me, I forget who they were. They had not seen Burton for some time, and went up to him and greeted him with the words “Oh how lovely to see you Robert, I have missed you!” To which he replied “Well I have not missed you dear”. She rationalised this as expressing how far beyond us he was, and how being present left no room for the negative emotion of missing someone. To my shame at the time I bought this interpretation. Now I see it as a case where he let slip the emptiness of his emotional life, moving unfeelingly from one gratification to the next, caring not a jot for the people surrounding him.

56. Joey Virgo - November 6, 2019

54. amesgilbert1

I also appreciated your passionate indictment of REB’s empty eulogy It is and was very on point and right.

Your comments and the news about this most recent death of a Fellowship member Peter Morrow reminded me of the first death in the Fellowship with Gary James back in December of 1976. Gary James was only 27 years of age, and got killed in a car accident while traveling after midnight in the dead of a Pennsylvania winter snow in his car, driving back to the teaching house on a slippery road after finishing his shift at his job as a restaurant waiter! Black-hearted Burton came to the teaching house afterwards and told we the living, “He died and his soul did not survive death.”

By saying about Peter Morrow that nothing “wrong” happened, REB might well be saying the same thing he said about Gary James but without palpable negative implications, just indifference — a totally empty eulogy, e.g., that a man who wasn’t “conscious” like himself simply and ordinarily died. Nothing wrong. Everything mechanical as usual. The cycle of uninterrupted repetition just continues. Ho hum.

But about Mr. Morrow, here’s one obituary that’s a bit more personal and touching, submitted on the Greater Fellowship blog by a former member of the FoF:

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestnews/Tourism_industry_mourns_Peter_Morrow%26%238217;s_death

55. John Harmer

Excellent anecdote with its accompanying excellent analysis of the unfeeling psychopath that is REB. Just excellent.

57. amesgilbert1 - November 14, 2019

The message I posted above was on behalf of Cult Survivor, who told me s/he was banned from posting on this site. I’ve not paid that much attention for the last few pages, just looking in from time to time, and didn’t notice that, so I went back to find out what was going on.

My subjective impression: I cannot understand why CS was banned, frankly. S/he certainly was forthright, and reacted to attacks in exactly the way any normal person would. That is, s/he stood up for their POV and didn’t mince words. Still being frank, it seems it should be superfluous to say that any group develops groupthink, yet I have to point out that this discussion board is no exception—the piling onto Cult Survivor was a clear example, IMHO, of groupthink. CS simply defended him/herself forthrightly and clearly.

As to the idea that CS is somehow acting as a shill for the FoF, that is laughable. CS’s work on the Wiki pages is a clear example of how that is not so. And, being frank again, CS has shed a great deal more light on the activities of the FoF and the Asaf Braverman Beperiod sham than many pages of contributions by others combined.

Nigel’s assertions notwithstanding, I don’t have any power over this blog, but I will write to Steve to ask that the ban on CS be lifted. I don’t expect CS to return, but at least, should Steve agree, there might be the possibility of future, valuable contributions that don’t hew to the party line and invite people to think.

/rant

58. Cult Survivor - November 14, 2019

On November 11th somebody removed from the Wikipedia FOF article and the FOF/REB Local Wikis all the negative information and all the pictures, i. e., “sanitized” both pages. The person that removed the information from Wikipedia didn’t create an account — they edited from an IP address in Oroville, where a large ISP for Oregon House is located; on the other hand, whoever removed the information from the Local Wikis used the pseudonym “urania44”, so it’s clear that there is a current FOF member behind those actions.

A Local Wiki administrator restored the information that was removed and commented “Please come up with contra articles, instead of removing”. The case of the Wikipedia article is a bit more complicated — an administrator protected the page for a week (no edits allowed) in order to avoid an “edit war” (as Wikipedia calls this kind of situation) and asked to have a conversation on the Talk page (link below). This administrator mentioned that if in 2-3 days the person removing the information doesn’t leave a comment explaining the reason behind their edits the original content will be restored.

If you have the time and interest, please visit the FOF Wikipedia and Local Wiki pages (links below) and monitor the changes sporadically in order to avoid the cleansing that the FOF is conducting at the moment. The reason for this request is that Wikipedia and Local Wiki show on the top of the page (Wikipedia is no. 1) when somebody searches for “Fellowship of Friends” on Google so they are an important source for people looking for information about the FOF/REB on the internet.

FOF article on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellowship_of_Friends

Talk page of the FOF article on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fellowship_of_Friends

FOF Local Wiki page
https://localwiki.org/yuba-sutter/Fellowship_of_Friends

REB Local Wiki page
https://localwiki.org/yuba-sutter/Robert_Earl_Burton

59. Cult Survivor - November 14, 2019

The comment I posted above is the one Ames was referring too.

60. Insider - November 14, 2019

58. Cult Survivor

Welcome back, and thank you for your efforts in this area.

Good to know that Burton and his lieutenants are as afraid as ever of the truth contained in the Wikipedia and Local Wiki pages, including a less-than-flattering picture of Burton.

Why do you suppose the brightest light in 2000 years, the highest conscious being ever to walk this planet, the spiritual leader of the only community in the universe (other than “Paradise” itself) where “presence” can be found, has so much to hide?

Linda, Gregg, Kevin, Dorian, Nicholas, Rowena, Ethan: Your input here would be most welcome and, I’m sure, “enlightening.”

61. Cult Survivor - November 15, 2019

The FOF Wikipedia article has been restored to the version that includes the criticism and REB’s picture. The article is still protected from edits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellowship_of_Friends

62. brucelevy - November 15, 2019

61. Cult Survivor

Why isn’t this site cited on that page?

63. John Harmer - November 15, 2019

I visited the page and notice that edits will be possible again on the 20th November. At that time I will try to add a sentence in the criticism section mentioning the setting up of a blog after a prospective student meeting attendee shared his experience, leading to an outpouring of personal histories that previously had had no forum on which to be aired. And that it continues to this day on another platform, then add the links to both the 2007 blog and the current one in the footnotes.

64. Cult Survivor - November 15, 2019

62. brucelevy

Good question. According to Wikipedia, this site can’t be used as a source or a reference (see link below) but I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t be listed in the “External Links” section at the end of the article. The FOF Local Wiki, by the way, lists this blog and Tim’s site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blogs_as_sources

65. Cult Survivor - November 15, 2019

63. John Harmer

Good idea. On the other hand, the more editors the better.

66. Cult Survivor - November 16, 2019

Since the Wikipedia article is protected from edits until November 20th, the FOF internet cleansing operation is now concentrating on the FOF and REB Local Wiki pages (see links below).

I already contacted several Local Wiki administrators and I’m waiting for them to act. If you have the time, please help restoring the information that FOF members are removing.

FOF Local Wiki page
https://localwiki.org/yuba-sutter/Fellowship_of_Friends

REB Local Wiki page
https://localwiki.org/yuba-sutter/Robert_Earl_Burton

67. amesgilbert1 - November 17, 2019

I’m amazed that anyone in the Fellowship of Friends finds these Wiki pages objectionable, and are spending so much time altering the site in attempts to manipulate the way the public views the organization. IMHO, they are completely innocuous, and the average viewer without prior knowledge of the facts would come away thinking that this is just another of those odd groups that spring up all over California like weeds.

Of course, Urania44, you and I know they would be wrong. You and I both know that Burton is a sexual predator who runs the Fellowship of Friends as an absolute dictator, who literally milks his followers for fun and profit, and has done so for five decades.

You claim, you “removed copyrighted photo published without the consent of the individual photographed. Removed biased and misleading information”.
Hey, Urania44, before you start spouting off about copyright, research the doctrine of “Fair Use” regarding copyright law. Specifically, Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107. Basically, this means that such photos can be used to educate the public, if, among other conditions, there is no financial gain. And note that, were ordinary copyright to be applicable in this case, it is the photographer, not the subject, that holds the copyright. That means that I can go through my collection of Robert Earl Burton photos that I took when I was a member, and publish what the fuck I want. Providing that those photos do not demean him or cause him a particular harm, I can publish what I want and where I want: I, the photographer, hold the copyright.

It is true that I don’t have any photos of him in his lurid latter–day clothing, obnoxious, loud and in the worst taste, but the ones I have will have suffice if you persist in your futile efforts. And, moreover, I’m allowed to create derivatives of my own photos, and I’m quite good with Photoshop. This includes putting him in recently observed clothing.
Don’t tempt me.

Urania44, the photo of Burton you keep removing reflects the truth. This is what he looks like, this is how he dresses, this is his demeanor. The words on the Wiki sites are also truthful; why are you trying to obfuscate the truth?

68. Cult Survivor - November 19, 2019

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned here before, but the Fellowship of Friends is listed on a page called “The 15 Most Famous Cults in History” (link below).

http://www.topicsupply.com/the-15-most-famous-cults-in-history/13/

69. Insider - November 19, 2019

68. Cult Survivor

Good to know. And all this time, I thought the Fellowship was just a garden variety, run-of-the-mill doomsday, mind control cult, run by your typical narcissistic, semen-addicted sociopath.

Kudos to Robert Earl Burton for breaking into the top 15.

70. Rich - November 19, 2019

Considering that there are hundreds of dishonest and destrulctive
cults in California alone, the group’s moving up.

71. Insider - November 20, 2019

The Horrifying Cult Origins of Bikram Yoga: Rape, Harassment and Lies:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-horrifying-cult-origins-of-bikram-yoga-rape-harassment-and-lies?ref=scroll

72. Cult Survivor - November 20, 2019

The FOF Wikipedia article has been unprotected and now can be edited. A paragraph about this blog with links to the previous and current sites has been added.

Feel free to add or correct the information on the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellowship_of_Friends

73. WhaleRider - November 21, 2019

If burton says “c-influence” is running the whole show, why should followers care what “life people” say or write about the FOF on the internet?

Isn’t that what in the fourth way calls “inner considering”, that is, worshiping the god of what other people think?

Obviously, the FOF is attempting to minimize criticism and control the online narrative in order to recruit new meat, since fewer people are reading books these days and/or are buying books online sans the innocuous-looking recruiting bookmarks (thank you Jeff Bezos) and are choosing to be more informed before making the regretful decision to join a cult like the FOF.

74. Insider - November 23, 2019

72. Cult Survivor

Do you think the Wikipedia entry should discuss the religious beliefs of Burton and the Fellowship? E.g., consciousness is found in only 2 places in the universe: in Paradise and at Apollo.

75. Joey Virgo - November 23, 2019

Sigh. Another missed opportunity to catch a predator.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/25/how-natural-wine-became-a-symbol-of-virtuous-consumption

The New Yorker writer Rachel Monroe in November 18, 2019 writes about the excellent wines at Apollo and Oregon House, while referencing the Fellowship of Friends and its leader Robert Earl Burton, adding how he how he was dogged by lawsuits claiming REB sexually exploited members, but immediately afterward then states: “The president of the Fellowship said that no lawsuits about sexual misdeeds have been adjudicated in court.”

As if to say, well, if no lawsuits have been adjudicated in court, there must have been only rancor or rumor and no real wrongdoing or molestation, and thus no need to investigate these allegations any further.

76. Insider - November 23, 2019

75. Joey Virgo

Also, the reason no lawsuits about sexual misdeeds were adjudicated in court is because all such lawsuits were settled and sealed out of court for many millions of dollars.

77. Cult Survivor - November 23, 2019

74. Insider

Do you think the Wikipedia entry should discuss the religious beliefs of Burton and the Fellowship? E.g., consciousness is found in only 2 places in the universe: in Paradise and at Apollo.

The issue with that is to find what Wikipedia calls “reliable sources”:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources

This is an excerpt from that page:

“Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. This means that we publish the opinions only of reliable authors, and not the opinions of Wikipedians who have read and interpreted primary source material for themselves.”

My interpretation is that if the religious beliefs of REB and the FOF can be found in a newspaper article or a book, for example, then they could be included in the FOF Wikipedia article.

78. Insider - November 23, 2019

77. Cult Survivor

How about in transcripts of meetings and other Fellowship- published material? Or a transcript anyone else makes from a video recording of a meeting?

79. Cult Survivor - November 23, 2019

78. Insider

I doubt that that would be considered a reliable source according to Wikipedia’s guidelines but somebody could add that information and see what happens. At any rate, I do believe that a section named “Religious Beliefs” is missing.

80. John Harmer - November 24, 2019

The recent book “Fifty years with angels” would be a suitable source. I’ll see if there are some suitable quotes in there to populate a religious beliefs section.

81. Phutatorius - November 24, 2019

For those who are interested in the more technical details of the Morrow accident, the NTSB Preliminary Report went up a few days ago and can be accessed by going to NTSB.gov. To summarize, Morrow and an unnamed passenger left Punta Gorda the previous day heading for Marysville. Due to a faulty fuel flow indication they stopped at Ocala to have it checked out. The passenger was not aboard when the plane crashed. At Ocala a mechanic worked on the fuel flow indicators and subsequently Morrow went up with the mechanic to see if the problem was fixed. What happened once airborne seems a bit vague; failure to gain proper altitude, and some pilot confusion possibly due to faulty instruments (radioed that he was heading west when he was actually heading east). Shortly afterward, the plane appeared (according to witnesses) to go into an aerodynamic stall and spun into the ground.

(I was in the Air Force many years ago and I still follow some of the aviation websites; thus my continuing interest.)

82. Joey Virgo - November 24, 2019

81. Phutatorius

Thanks for the update.

83. John Harmer - November 24, 2019

I have edited the wikipedia page to include a section on the doctrines of the FoF, and included a quote of Burton describing his encounters with the Absolute, with a reference to the recent book “Fifty years with Angels”

84. Insider - November 24, 2019

81. Phutatorius

The other passenger who was to have flown with Peter to CA was Russell Morgan.

85. ton2u - November 25, 2019

Happened upon this quote in recent reading – thought it might be appreciated here and it might be especially “useful” for current FOF members who read these pages – if any do:

“Whoever was responsible for the idea of dividing self into lower and higher parts committed a serious crime against humanity.

This division has given rise to the notion that the lower (ego and immature) self must be overcome while the higher (unitive and whole) self must be sought as the goal of human realization.

Out of ignorance, I too clung to this notion because I believed it was this higher self that would be united with God for all eternity,

It took a long time before my experiences led me to doubt this conviction and, at the same time, let in the possibility that this was not the whole truth and that there was still further to go.”

I’ll add this: whoever is in the business of conning people by continuing to promote the idea of the lower and higher self, likewise commits a crime against humanity.

86. Insider - November 25, 2019

83. John Harmer

Good job. Hope you find more such examples of the Burton Belief Bubble.

Burton and his frontline defenders have no problem with Burton’s semen-addicted sex life being shared publicly, nor his spending addiction, nor the true nature of the Fellowship as a doomsday cult.

With all of this, they are just fine having it be out in the open. However, what they really want to keep from getting too much exposure, and do all can to hide it or explain it away, is the fact that Burton is not well, physically or mentallyS. He doesn’t know what he is saying, he has no ability to think before speaking, he’s increasingly forgetful, his delusions about seeing and speaking with angels and absolutes is simply insane.

Someone recently said that Dorian’s main job is to keep people from suspecting or seeing to what extent Burton has lost it.

So, expect Burton’s defenders and enablers to try to edit or delete the “Doctrines” section. Besides exposing more of the truth about Burton, it also threatens to expose their own foolishness in believing all of Burton’s nonsense.

87. John Harmer - November 26, 2019

#86 Thanks for the warning Insider, I will keep checking the site for edits to that page. I trimmed it down from a more descriptive entry where I characterised the original fourth way based teaching book phase, being changed because they took Burton to himself be a conscious teacher who would add to the teaching himself. When I read it through, I realised it could have been removed as being an unsubstantiated expression of opinion. So I believe that what is left, sticks to quoting from the recent book, and referring to the book, which counts as a suitable source I reckon.

It is classic a symptom of psychosis to see things that those surrounding do not see. I like how he thinks telling us it is not a dream or a vision establishes it as an objective fact that the absolute was in the room, communicating directly with Burton as he spoke to his followers.

I also find it makes me smile that only members of the FoF would know the magnitude of the claim that he makes near the end of the quote that everyone at that meeting was now a conscious being, and which he told them all at the time. For years and years we were told that only handful of successful “authenticated by Burton” conscious beings would be created by this school, then suddenly they are told they all are. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to see the expressions of their faces. I guess some would believe it, while maybe some would wonder if it didn’t just apply at that moment, but that that moment was oh so special. Did some in the room really think that an avator of the absolute was in the room (and the host of angels and recent conscious beings, all crowding the area)?

88. Cult Survivor - November 26, 2019

87. John Harmer

I left the FOF 3 years ago and to my recollection out of the 150 people at a “Grand Pavillon meeting” may be 20 or 30 “hardcore members” would believe REB’s ramblings about predictions, the visits of the Absolute, “you are all conscious beings now”, etc. — the rest would ignore his comments and look forward to the “Potager lunch” after the meeting.

Today the FOF is basically a social club, or rather a retirement home.

89. Phutatorius - November 27, 2019

re #88: Sort of like at the end of “The Holy Mountain” where Jodorowsky rolls the enneagram tabletop down the hill?

90. John Harmer - November 27, 2019

#89 Phutatorius “Is this life reality?”

91. amesgilbert1 - November 27, 2019

So, we have the following phenomenon. Central to the scene is one Robert Earl Burton, an abject slave to his desires. Uncontrollable desire for sex, uncontrollable desire for copious amounts of semen, uncontrollable desire for bright, gaudy objects and uncontrollable desire for shopping. With the unconditional and unlimited indulgence of his followers for over fifty years, he has tried in vain to satisfy those desires. He has had no success, because there are no limits, the compulsions and needs just grow and grow, always beyond the capacity to be satisfied.

Right now, Burton’s addled neurons have become fixated on clocks. He is helplessly compelled (I mean, directed by powerful angels) to go on another spree, buying clocks left and right, busy informing his followers of the esoteric significance of clocks—not to mention, by virtue of being ‘conscious’, he automatically becomes an all–knowing expert on clocks. Of course, for every buyer there has to be a seller, so the antique dealers, who assuredly have their own information networks, rub their hands with glee and triple their prices as Burton, the well–known mark, journeys forth day after day on another obsessive–compulsive shopping orgy. Clocks, as anyone with genuine esoteric leanings knows, are essential to the founding of the Next Civilization™. As were camels, only a short while ago. And palm trees before that. And Chinese furniture before that. And Paul Storr silver before that, and Meissen dishes before that…

And his followers attend to him with slavish, unquestioning devotion, so they are slaves to a slave. Third–order slavery: most of the followers, especially the naive newbies, hold the ‘older students’, or those imbued with authority from Burton, like Dorian or Sasha, in special regard and awe, and thereby enslave themselves to their opinions and suggestions as well. Roll up, folks, you can join the Fellowship of Friends and become the slave to a slave to a slave!

A splendid opportunity for those who like to take orders, who crave certainty in all things, and take comfort in being told what to do and what their world view should be! And who are assured they are already ‘conscious’, there mixing with the angels, and moreover close to Paradise, located, according to Burton, in Oregon House, California 95962—provided they continue to fork out the endlessly recurring entrance fees.

Cult Survivor, if I understand him correctly, has told us that nowadays ‘teaching payments’ as such are low to non–existent, but instead, Burton pays for his hefty expenses by charging heavily for mandated ‘teaching dinners’, meetings, breakfasts, photo opportunities with Beloved Teacher and such. That means the majority of the sheep mentioned in his post just above pay big time to go to yet another useless meeting in an unending series and occupy their time there looking forward to the meal following? What a way to spend the limited moments of one’s life!

92. WhaleRider - November 27, 2019

A word of caution about the long term effects of the FOF: even after having left the cult 34 years ago, I still have dreams in which elements of my psyche inhabit the image of burton, like last night.

As others have posted, often my cult dreams revolve around the anxiety of being discovered and publicly shamed at a cult meeting or other social function for not having paid my cult fees and thus banished, deprived of my sense of belonging. (In fact my dreams are free and all are welcome!)

This I attribute to the choice I made long ago to leave the cult but continue “working on myself” and the underlying fear that I had while in the cult that I won’t be able to afford it as the “pace of the cult quickens”…along with the fear my compromised ego experiences in the milieu of the chaotic and uncontrolled dream state itself.

In these scenarios, burton is usually not present.

Having had such close contact with burton, however, more often my dreams involve his image directly.

Last night I dreamed about urging burton while in a close embrace to have an operation on his vocal chords to address his raspy voice, that nowadays a laser (instrument of light) is used instead of a scalpel (a tool of dissection) and that,” wouldn’t it be a relief not to speak”, but to write down everything he has to say in order to be better understood (which is what I’m doing now).

Ironically, his response was pure gibberish which made no sense to me in the dream, so I left him, walking across a huge pink sheet that had been spread out on a grassy field of a park full of people.

I recall feeling like I was a “Red Sparrow”, (from the movie) in that my observing ego was spying on burton, playing whatever role needed and willing to indulge his weaknesses in order to reveal his secrets and report them to others.

From a Jungian perspective, I believe the counter sexual male elements appearing in my particular dreams represent my shadow side, which as Jung posits, has both helpful and not so helpful aspects, (nod to Cult Survivor) and to be clear, what I consider to be my inner guru is the unseen hand or “higher forces” who creates the amazingly symbolic dreams for me to observe and analyze.

For me, the dream’s takeaway is that although subjective, a person’s inner world is just as important as the outer world…and that mental health requires accommodation of both…in contrast to the FOF’s splitting of the psyche into “good and bad parts” and “ingesting” of material “impressions” as the exclusive, external fuel source of “consciousness”.

IMO, there Is an inexhaustible source of insight to be gained from nightly dreams, much more so than seeking the so-called hidden “esoteric knowledge” one might “verifabricate” from viewing license plates, art, and material objects, no matter how ancient those objects are, what the object’s composition, or who made them, some of which have been intentionally weaponized in religious settings to subjugate others. The Sacré-Cœur Basilica constructed upon the ruins of the Paris Commune revolt comes to mind.

Now what I cannot fully convey here is the sense of peaceful wholeness I feel upon reflecting upon this dream, becoming conscious of the unconscious in a holistic manner, which is deeply satisfying to me personally…as opposed to the inner conflict one might feel as a cult member within the “higher self at war with the lower self” paradigm, devaluing the greater Self.

So, IMO, herein lies the danger of demonizing burton as “pure evil” instead of owning projections, whether “good” or “bad” helpful or not…in my case, were I to be disgusted by the image of burton who still quite vividly appears in my dreams, externally projecting my shadow upon the person of burton, albeit flawed as we all are, I would only be continuing the FOF legacy of Self devaluation and furthering the cult’s agenda of lionizing burton…just one of the many reasons I am eternally thankful for having left when I did and open myself to other more informed points of view.

93. amesgilbert1 - November 27, 2019

A gigantic turd recently landed in my inbox, a 159 MB electronic copy of the latest “Apollo Miracle”, now in its seventh year of publication under the supervision of Judith Grace.
This issue is devoted to the memorialization of Peter Morrow, consisting of tidbits of Burton’s ramblings in three consecutive ‘meetings’ over a period of three days. Many, many photos, mostly of PM, but including half a dozen pictures of the crash site, interspersed with the entirely predictable garbage spewing from Burton’s addled brain. And, as always, Burton manages to make himself the center of attention. Not only by taking all the available space at these ‘meetings’, where he pontificates hour after hour, but directly.

For example: “This is a photo of Sasha and me upon hearing the news of Peter’s death. This shock goes quite deep. You do not know how much you love a person until they die. We were staying at the Doubletree—the Tree of Life supporting Worlds 6 and 12. You have uncreated light now, so you are free from the Tree of Life. The words on the bottom of the television screen are interesting. They say, “Prepare. Listen very carefully.” A song says, “There’s a kind of hush, all over the world tonight … Listen very carefully, and you will see what I mean … forever and ever.” This is Peter’s payment and our payment for eternal life. The shock is full of signatures of Influence C. The air traffic controller said on the radio that the accident happened on 44th Street. Peter Ingle, meaning “angel,” a former student who used to fly with Peter Morrow, went to visit the spot, meaning that an angel visited and took Peter’s soul. There were all kinds of signatures of Influence C. The note said that the official time of the accident was 11:45, but 11:44 is when it occurred. It happened on College Road, meaning Fellowship of Friends, a school, a university.”

There are much, much more like this. Including the selective quotes from famous people, there are 25 pages altogether… Included are several other references to this “uncreated light” thingy. I think this invention has been noted here before, but apparently, this is one of Burton’s newest mind–dulling memes substituting for “The Sequence”, which is now out of favor (maybe because it reminds him too much of Asaf Braverman, who was the ‘brains’ behind that phase? The Asaf Braverman who craved more of the glory and more of the money for himself, and so started a rival ‘school’, Beperiod.com?)

I’m not the hero that John Harmer is (reading then reporting on “Fifty Years with Angels”), I find it very tiring to read much of this twaddle at a time. Nevertheless, if I can summon up the energy to continue, I’ll post more of Burton’s ravings on this subject, but I’d hazard it is all much of a likeness. The narcissist–in–chief reasserting his authority over his followers, binding them ever closer in his fantasy—now with added gravitas!

And (sigh!) I also have a video of the Peter Morrow remembrance service at the Town Hall (excuse me, the Sir Michael Goodwin Festival Hall™) that someone sent me to plough through. Based on previous experience, I have no doubt that it also is mawkish and sentimental and self–serving, but I’m always open to being pleasantly surprised.

94. ton2u - November 27, 2019

Whalerider @ 92

Re: “evil” I was just listening to this discussion yesterday:

95. Nancy Gilbert - November 27, 2019

92. Whalerider:
Yes, dreams can be instructive if you can decipher the message being sent. Also, they are, IMO, personal in nature, so not necessarily applicable to others.

My most potent FOF/Burton dreams were within the couple of years after I left and I awoke knowing what the message of this dream was and is: RB appeared out of a dark gray background as a giant black hole/mouth with shark-like teeth and was moving fast towards me, the subject and the observer. I knew in the dream I could not retreat in time to avoid being eaten, so I responded spontaneously by becoming even larger and more powerful than this black, succubus being and I enveloped and swallowed it entirely. Then it was gone and all that was left was the dark gray void. I woke up with a jolt.

I think the analogy of RB as a ‘black hole’ or ‘succubus’, swallowing up any all that come close, fits pretty well for many of us and it takes years, if not decades, to rediscover and recover ourselves from the FOF brainwashing and disempowerment. My energy and life opened up immeasurably once I left the endless mind and heart-numbing BS and gaslighting of the FOF. ‘Eat and/or be eaten’?

96. Wondering Who's Watching - November 28, 2019

183/93: amesgilbert1:
“I also have a video of the Peter Morrow remembrance service at the Town Hall (excuse me, the Sir Michael Goodwin Festival Hall™) that someone sent me. . .”
Here it is on YouTube;
Peter Morrow Funeral service
Apollo Nov 16, 2019 35:44:

97. amesgilbert1 - November 28, 2019

An anecdote about current ‘teaching payments’ and becoming mostly a ‘social club’ that supports Cult Survivor’s assertions, above.

My sister–in–law still lives in Oregon House, and very recently she had the opportunity to talk for a while with a current member. This person, call him ‘T’, had been with a group in Sacramento for a long time, but the leader died. So, he and his wife started looking around for another ‘spiritual community’, and happened upon the Fellowship of Friends. They liked what they saw, brought a property and moved Oregon House. My SIL and ‘T’ live near each other, and the conversation turned to, what attracted ‘T’ and his wife to the FoF? The answer was, “community”. In fact, ‘T’ said outright he did not regard Burton as his teacher, took no notice of him, moreover did not make any ‘teaching payments’, did not got to meetings—and that there were no objections to these arrangements. Also present at this particular conversation was another very long–time member, who did not say anything, but according to my SIL, just nodded and smiled in apparent agreement. At least for this couple, the whole thing is the community, and the commonality of a more spiritual experience/lifestyle.

This importance of belonging to a community has been posited many times before on this site, and I agree, this is what is probably the strongest glue holding things together. Almost everyone longs for community, the sense of belonging, of being useful and being valued by one’s peers. It can be pretty lonely out there, and I can’t blame anyone who is desperate for community looking into organizations like the Fellowship of Friends. Plus, as CS and others have also said, for the older followers, it can seem there is nowhere else to go. How do you start over if you are late in your life/career?

Well, if Burton’s shenanigans don’t bother you overmuch, then stay. If supporting a dictator who sexually exploits his male followers, wastes your money and time, and who may upend your life at any moment on a whim stirs your conscience, leave. I don’t think I’ve met more than half a dozen folks who have regretted leaving (and they rejoined for a while, then left again), and most have continued on to a much more deeply joyful existence, though I’ve also heard plenty of stories of rough times, which come with the territory when you open yourself up to risks. The process of making a decision, acting on it, and the whole process of separation will give you many, many vivid moments to remember, I assure you, and besides, you can always rejoin if the adventures in independent living turn out to disappoint you.

98. amesgilbert1 - November 28, 2019

Thanks, WWW. Now everyone can enjoy…

Well, it is Thanksgiving here in the U.S., and amongst many other things, I’m so very thankful I escaped the clutches of the Fellowship of Friends. We are snowed in, our guests can’t make it, so we’ll have our feast tomorrow instead. Which leaves me with surplus time for idle thoughts…

Over there in the ‘In Memoriam’ page on GF devoted to Peter M, one post reads, “For the past 15 years or so, Peter would relentlessly introduce the subject of how to make the Fellowship and Apollo better, how to bring back the LIFE and ENERGY they once had. You could hardly spend 30 minutes with Peter before he would shift the conversation in order to share his current ideas and vision. He truly loved the Fellowship, but not what it had become, or maybe more accurately, what it had lost.”

I met quite a lot of “reform from within” folks during my stay in the FoF. And this was natural, because for a while, I was one of them. The trouble is, unless one sets definite goals, definite ways to measure success, and above all, a time limit, there is little impulse to actually act effectively, which entails taking risks, including the risk of failure. And what little impulse there is initially fades with the passage of time. After all, there is always tomorrow… Patience, wait and see, it may all turn out right in the end… and so on.

Yet, if one does not directly face the central fact of Robert Earl Burton and his complete corruption, then any efforts one makes will inevitably be misdirected, IMHO. A classic example would be when Roger Greene in London bequeathed $250k to the FoF in his will to build some basic accommodations for visitors. This was duly smuggled in by a courier in the form of cash, and within three weeks, Burton had spent it all, the majority on expensive vehicles for the boys—much to the delight of the Toyota dealership in Yuba City. So much for Roger Greene’s good intentions, and his desire to elevate some aspect of the Fellowship.

Then there is the idea PM seems to have had, of something lost and possible recovery. Again, it was and probably is common to look back at some “golden age” when everything was pure and wonderful, before innocence was lost. Yet, even a cursory review of the actual historical facts exposes this fable for what it is. Burton was corrupt from the start, was overwhelming young men with lies and promises from the start, and compelling/ensuring secrecy about his actions from the start. Now we know that one of the two major reasons for starting the group was to freely gratify his sexual lusts, just like his mentor, Alex Horn. The other was to be able to live off the efforts of others, and again, Horn demonstrated exactly how this was done. As far as I can tell, Burton’s desire to dominate every aspect of his followers’ lives grew more gradually, as he pushed to find out where the limits were. As it turns out, by 1978 or thereabouts (IMO) Burton came to realize there were no limits, so ‘suggestions’ became tasks, and there was no more negotiation or compromise. It became ‘my way or the highway’, and he imposed really difficult group tasks (like, everyone giving up smoking), together with big penalties for disobedience.

That is around the time Peter Morrow joined (a few months after me), and I suppose the new realities had not yet become clear to either of us. I know it took me a while to realize that what I was told in the introductory meetings about how things were run did not correspond to reality. Maybe it took a couple of years more before the initial excitement, the ‘golden age’ became a dim memory? Before what were formerly just vague, (and unbelievable) rumors started to coalesce and gain credence?

Anyway, I hope you all have a meaningful and enjoyable Thanksgiving!

99. brucelevy - November 28, 2019

96. Wondering Who’s Watching

Holy fuckballs. I left in 85, but clearly the robots and morons have piled the bullshit even higher then I could have predicted. These people are idiots.

100. WhaleRider - November 29, 2019

Nancy Gilbert:
Thank you for sharing. I agree that deciphering the symbolic meaning of dreams is a highly personal process, although Jung recognized similar archetypical patterns in dreams that seemed to be universally present in many different cultures; the archetype of the “wise old woman or man” image offering advice comes to mind, or the image of a “trickster/shape-shifter”, for example.

Isn’t it telling and a bit ironic, though, that a “succubus” image appearing in the dream of a current FOF follower were it to be any other character (or animal) other than burton, could just as easily be interpreted as the hostile “lower self” wishing to consume the “higher self”…and the “higher self” having to expand “consciousness” rather than be overcome by so-called “sleep” or our “baser instincts”?

In fact, for you (and others, myself included) burton has come to symbolize the exact opposite of what he claims to be, yet hasn’t the splitting paradigm of “the lower self attempting to overpower the higher self” preexisted the cult? That’s the concern I mentioned above about projecting.

It begs the question for both follower and ex-follower alike…is the image of burton appearing in one’s dream actually burton’s material spirit entering into one’s head or is it the symbolic burton one has over time incorporated into one’s own unconscious?

Personally, I didn’t necessarily feel psychicly drained when around burton; overall I‘d say I felt excited at meetings and dinners, while at the same time exhausted by the long hours and manual labor. I started feeling irreversibly conflicted when burton crossed my sexual boundaries.

I often dream about burton (or in my case, my shadow side) in a sympathetic manner, urging him to grow and mature, maybe because I was trained to focus on his needs, or maybe as a wish fulfillment, not unlike the late Peter Morrow might have felt when he talked about wanting to make the FOF better.

I wonder what it was about burton himself you felt wanted to consume you that you had to defeat or ward off by getting larger? I’m curious to hear from the female perspective, if you are comfortable with that, since obviously you had no semen to offer him. Or maybe it was the FOF cult as a whole that wanted to gobble you up?

101. ton2u - November 29, 2019

A thought about the dream images brought up…’archetypal’ image of the male is penetration, while the female surrounds, engulfs, absorbs, dis-solves…

Nothing wrong with belonging to a social club? In my judgement it depends on the club and tenets thereof – on some level the KKK might be a social club – the question is what type of thinking and behaviors are encouraged and promulgated.

As far as social clubs go, I suppose the FOF might be considered a relatively benign “fly-trap” sort of thing for kooks and outsiders, the harm done to society at large being minuscule. The harm done to some individuals me be another story, as these pages attest to.

Looking at the PM memorial video above I recognized a few folks from my time in the FOF – was that Graylin acting as the MC? As I looked at the video I realize some folks have made a life for themselves by sticking with the FOF these many years – in spite of the malignant narcissist at the center of the organization. What right do I have to question the life-choices of others? If these people believe they are “happy” and contented in their little world then good for them!

On the other hand I think I do have a legitimate right to criticize what could be considered “false advertising” by the organization. What drew me to join the FOF was my search for “enlightenment” and an “enlightened” teacher to help get me closer to the goal. For me it was a time in life for searching, I was young, naive and unfortunately, easily duped – these were my faults in the equation which brought me to the FOF. At the time I didn’t think of it as joining a social club, I thought the FOF was a school of enlightenment, that the “teacher” was an “enlightened being “- this was the deception and the fraud that I was susceptible to. I think the deception that drew me in is still being used.

I see the organization differently with hindsight – I understand the role community plays in the lives of individuals, that the sense of community is of real value and fulfills undeniable needs for the individual as a “social animal.” So I have to allow for and on some level I have to respect the needs these FOF members fulfill by their affiliation. If looked at strictly as a gathering of like-minded folks, I get it… on the other hand, there should be recognition and consideration of the damage done and the potential for future damage to the lives of naive or gullible folks who get involved for the wrong reasons, folks who may be looking for something other than a social structure.

Speaking personally, before I joined at the tender age of 21, between family and friends I had a relatively strong and growing social support structure around me. But back when I joined, FOF programming involved stripping away all former social supports, including family and friends. Association with FOF ‘students” and adopting the “school” as the new and exclusive social support system was supposed to advance the goal of “work on oneself” and personal “evolution” – and a perfectly “reasonable” rationale was given for rejecting the support and influence of “life people” i.e. giving up the former support system of “life” for the new social structure provided by the “school” was promoted as the way to evolve toward “enlightenment.” That was and may still be part of the hoax perpetrated by the FOF.

Choosing to leave the FOF involves ostracism and an internalized stigma (damnation and food for the moon as a “life person”). Leaving with FOF programming implanted can be debilitatingly destructive. And after stripping away any and all social support one might have had from “life people,” when leaving the FOF there is little or no social support left. This is an exceedingly difficult situation to be in, I think maybe some folks who stay in the FOF stay because they realize this, if only “sub-liminally.” And maybe some stay because they’ve found happiness and contentment.

There are many “scientifically” based studies available on the effects on the individual of ostracism…

102. ton2u - November 29, 2019
103. fofblogmoderator - November 29, 2019

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