Fellowship Of Friends/Fourth Way School/Living Presence Discussion – Page 182 September 8, 2019
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Fellowship of Friends - Living Presence Discussion 
I discovered on YouTube Martin Butler who apparently studied under Rina Hands (who was a student of Gurdjieff back in the day and who wrote a couple of books). Martin Butler isn’t exclusively a Gurdjieff or Fourth Way follower. His perspective is informed by the likes of Schopenhauer, Cioran, Spinoza, Lao Tzu, and Legotti, all of whom share a certain pessimism about life directly related to Gurdjieff’s views. (I’ve often idly wondered whether Gurdjieff borrowed some ideas from Schopenhauer. We’ll never know.)
I discovered Martin Butler is helpful in deepening one’s understanding of what Gurdjieff called “the terror of the situation,” and how we actually are, in Gurdjieffian terms, in the stomach of the universe in evolutionary terms. (Others, like Gary Inmendham (also on YouTube) say life is not a gift; it’s a liability, while also stating man is a machine, asserting this without his having read Gurdjieff, understanding the horror of evolution completely and the temporary nature of existence very well while despising Buddhism.).
I’m sharing this for those few who might have a philosophic nature. It’s not for everyone, particularly not for Rb and his slaves.
Martin Butler videos:
The Joy of Pessimism: Gurdjieff, Cioran, Schopenhauer, Spinoza, Ligotti
We Are The Nightmare
If You Don’t Try to Change Things, Everything Will Change
Contingent You
Rina Hands’ Books
https://www.amazon.com/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3ARina+Hands&s=relevancerank&text=Rina+Hands&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1
A thought from a hero…
2. warpage
You submitted a video on August 19 about Jordan Peterson at 9 on page 181. “A thought from a hero,” you wrote. I ignored it as I found your link misguided and irrelevant to the FoF blog, and no one commented upon it in any way to endorse it.
All media heroes today are given to us for a specific political purpose, created for such purposes, not because the individual deserves the limelight because of some special talent or skill, or because he has truly something valid to offer or has earned the limelight. His importance to YouTube and TV is solely because he’s a globalist, an anti-nationalist. And while he claims to being a Christian, he shares none of Christianity’s specific beliefs. He’s a con artist.
Jordan Peterson is an intellectual fraud. The evidence is overwhelming. And he himself is likely a sociopath. He has nothing to offer in terms of spirituality and little to offer people psychologically except clean your room and try not to be an a-hole.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hot-thought/201802/jordan-peterson-s-flimsy-philosophy-life
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-myth-of-jordan-petersons-integrity.html
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/26/17144166/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life
Jordanetics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwidXu90yYU
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right
View at Medium.com
3. Joey Virgo
I take it you dislike Peterson and there is nothing you can lean from the man. I also take it you praised Martin Butler for his joutneys into pessimism/nihilism.
Personally, I wiould follow someone who helped me make sense of my (own) life and you can guess why this is.
“To dream the impossible dream” is not for the competent corporate types, who crawl up the back of their fellow workers, but those who hold fast to principles and ideals, however misplaced in the worldly sphere.
I should appreciate more of your own words and less ‘back-up’ from the intelligentsia/cognoscenti.
4. warpage
You don’t impress me with your “argument” by merely asserting all I do is dislike Peterson. I’ve listened to JP many times over the years – at length. I concluded a long time ago finally that he’s unappealing and his ideas stink from excessive, unnecessary intellectualism and fraudulence, and I found I wasn’t alone in my opinion, much to my relief.
Did you even bother reading the critical articles about him here? No, you didn’t. You call Jordan’s critics the “intelligentsia/cognoscenti” dismissively – without even trying to play Devil’s advocate, which would be intellectually honest — by readingor listening to at least one critic, but instead you just denigrated even Psychology Today as if you actually know what you’re talking about when you really don’t. The fact is it’s Jordan Peterson who is part of the “intellgentsia/cognoscenti,” an official member of the Global Elite.
Before Jordan became a media celebrity, he worked for the United Nations on a project regarding the whole Marxist NWO agenda for sustainability. Don’t tell me he’s not part of the intelligentsa/cognoscenti.
In essence, Jordan s really no different in character and character flows from Rb, except Jp gets his money from Patreon and the like.
If Jordan helped you make sense of your life, you might state clearly just how or in what way he did this, instead of merely pushing a non-essential media celebrity and fraud onto an ex-FoF audience and then arguing with me merely — about likes/dislikes – which is not a very substantive way to make a point.
About Martin Butler, why I posted some of his videos is so you, or anyone, could have made a connection with the ideas he was discussing — or with me. Or you could reject him after giving him a listen and give others here your reasons why. A fruitful discussion arise, but thanks, buddy, for just ignoring the whole thing and then turning on the tears to justify your blatant will to ignorance.
Butler can be merely entertaining. He can be instructive and insightful. He can provoke thought. He can be rejected as well. But at least Butler is relevant to the FoF’s esoteric teachings, to Gurdjieff’s teachings, and even to Rodney Collins’ thinking. Jp has little or no relevance. He’s a snake oil salesman, just as Rb was and is.
Yet you chose to push another “hero video” via JP believing, I guess, I was pushing Butler as some kind of “hero” too. No, I wasn’t, I’m not. I merely made a suggestion that a certain philosophically inclined individual might appreciate –or reject. At least he’s a real human being, not a performer with a scripted agenda and at least he’s new and different from what else has been discussed here, however small the attraction.
Apparently, you don’t know much about Gurdjieff’s ideas else you wouldn’t reduce a discussion about intellectual value, content, and substance to the simple notion of like or dislike.
Warpage
Is that you Nigel?
6. brucelevy
Thanks for asking the question. A confounding mystery is going on.
6. brucelevy/7. Joey Virgo
It was assumed, when ton2u played “Making Plans for Nigel”, two or three pages back, that another ‘unmasking’ had taken place and another pseudonym trashed.
Yet Steve has seen that I do not rant nor counter attack and have ‘raised the bar’ above personal ‘unnecessary revelations’. I believe he is giving me the chance to be a part of, not a nuisance to, the theme and discussion.
I may have stated that I am requesting (maybe have not) that I have all Sections (135 and 117) against me lifted and have a personal appointment with the manager of Tonna CMHT to such end.
It was part of the reason for mentioning Stella and partly by realizing that REVOVERY is possible. I have the right to be valued more than rhe manic dope that brucelevy and Ames Gilbert and anyone else would assert.
the, not rhe…RECOVERY, not REVOVERY…sorry (sp.)
¡Oy Vey!
I found myself remembering something that used to irritate me when I was still a member of the FoF. What brought on the association was the way that sports commentators often assess the group morale of a team (the particular case was the England cricket team). He was saying they had “lost momentum”. It connected for me with the way that people in the cult would talk about a certain group being “In an interval”. There was nothing an individual could usefully do with that observation I felt. On one occasion someone had spent some months living at Renaissance and had come back to the London centre, buzzing with high octane hydrogens, and in a sympathetic voice gave us the photograph that the centre was in an interval. I think it relates to a tendency that is quite widespread in our lives of looking for something to blame that is not our fault, bigger than us. Our workplace, our country, our group of friends etc. I think it may relate to our ability to make of an abstract concept a reality, which we then find hard to ignore. The cult did it on many levels with our mission to be an ark, the health of each centre, the vibe at each event we attended. It seems to me that Burton was a master at manipulating these abstractions to create a setup that favoured his predilections.
Joey Virgo
One thing you may have missed, whilst demolishing the work of Jordan Peterson, was the phrase he used of ‘sacricing in the present for future gain’. This would roughly translate as ‘intentional suffering’.
Yes, I dd read a great deal of Gurdjeff and Ouspensky…one phrase from Gurdjieff…
“I wish the result of this suffering to become my own, for being”.
How much were we mesmerized by the group think – eager to spout wonderful phrases to be thought of greatly by FOFfers?
And how much now, are we willing to risk of our innate intelligence, that bloggers will find us a well groomed mouth of reason?
Think about it.
Joey Virgo
Re: Peterson vs. Butler.
Did your wife not cook your dinner the way you liked it last night?
You were very irritated.
12. warpage
“. . . sacrificing the present for future gain.”
That’s just saying “Give up immediate gratification for a larger benefit in the future.” Again, Jordan overcomplicates in order to say what might be said more plainly, because he wants to hide his pedestrian thought. He too is another Emperor without Clothes. Most intelligent people recognize that by now. You can read into his abstractions and make them about “intentional suffering” because anyone can — he’s that kind of bloviator.
13. warpage
“You were very irritated.” Yes, I was. And you were very irritated.
12. warpage
“And how much now, are we willing to risk of our innate intelligence, that bloggers will find us a well groomed mouth of reason?”
I don’t find the question intelligible.
Who is risking “our innate intelligence”? What is “innate intelligence”? What does risking intelligence, whether innate or not, look like, feel like? What is the circumstance in which any innate intelligence is risked?
What is a well-groomed mouth of reason? Does it necessarily have to wear a trimmed mustache and/or beard? Who has the mouth of reason, well-groomed or not?
I admire, say, Sam Harris — for his ability to stay calm in debates — he’s a long-time, serious meditator and atheist, but even he, being human, can go off the deep end now and then and foam at the mouth. He doesn’t wear a beard or mustache. He often wears a suit, but he also wears jeans. Are you saying bloggers need to find “us” (who is “us”?) to be exact replicas of the best moments someone like Sam Harris might exhibit on a public forum?
I also hope you’re not referring to Jordan as a “well-groomed mouth of reason” — just because he wears a suit. Because you are assuming proof that is not in evidence. Are you? Rb wears a suit too, likely more expensive and better made (even if ugly) than Jordan. Rb can put on the mask of reason as well as Jordan and can speak through his HIV-stained lips in order to manipulate for gain. So, what do you mean?
Do you think all commenters on this blog need to be well-groomed whether by reason or by some other means? How would you know if they are or are not? What standards do YOU have and are abiding consistently by as a “well-groomed mouth of reason” yourself such that you can be the judge or arbiter of success or failure? Please share, so all may benefit. How will the higher innate intelligence see the lower one and how will the lower one recognize the higher one?
Are you expecting bloggers in the future to look back at these discussion pages and find well-thought out reason on every page like a Liebnitz or a Kant? Have you been the exemplary model for such an event as that all along? Whatever do you even mean by reason? And how is it to be seen and understood so there’s no confusion? Is it by logic? By love and compassion? By rhetoric? By observation? All five? And more?
This question of yours has the sound of sounding a higher value but it is, in fact, all signal IMHO, like an imitative excerpt from a Ralph Waldo Emerson oratorical poem but without grounding in any reality, thus referring to anything or nothing in particular, not unlike much of Jordan Peterson’s own rhetoric or like the phrase “Superglue of Supershit” used once upon a time.
Repeat: I don’t find the question intelligible.
Ooh…I do like the word BLOVIATOR…never heard it before…quite honestly, I try to lead a practical life devoid of highfalutin rhetoric.
11. Johh Harmer
Thank you for bringing up one of the most irritating and repeated scenarios from our experience in the FoF where the so-called “higher” deems fit to judge the “lower” since the latter is, say, fresh off the farm of higher hydrogens, so to speak — borrowing from your words.
I haven’t read much on this forum about this specific kind of “judgment” and this specific interaction, which is partly why it interests me, and I’m sure it occurs elsewhere in society and is not special to the FoF, but you described it vividly, bringing faded memories back to life, and what that is is that judg-y sort of judgment, that first-impression opinionation of emotional disagreement, uttered in flowery or high-falutin’ rhetoric to mask its self-centeredness as being instead judicious, long-mulled-over discernment. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The shallow can feign the depths — on the surface.
Good judgment and discernment take a long time of observation, deep experience, and intensive examination — which is exactly what informs your comment. And it is rooted in particular circumstances, particular times. It is not universal.
It doesn’t happen overnight or in a few days or upon a week’s long acquaintance with someone or some event. It doesn’t just come automatically from having the right set of ideas or ideals or a rule book of principles to follow. Good judgment is not a broad stroke; it’s quite concrete, specific and knows that the devil is in the details.
Any one can have opinions or make judgments, say about a book based on its cover, but good judgment and discernment are painstakingly acquired and there’s nothing snappy about it. And it is not foolproof but more reliable than any opinion.
With good judgment, like in good court cases where the judge narrows the meaning of the law to fit the circumstance presented, people can learn from it. When it’s too broad or not specific, people flail like fish out of water and do not know what to do and feel helpless to rectify the problem or circumstance, though they feel the punitive nature of it distinctly.
Good judgment takes a lot of time and patience, which often is in short supply, and the ability to think, which people rarely are inclined to do because it’s uncomfortable and difficult and may alter our worldview or our view of ourselves. For me, skepticism goes a long way towards these ends.
26. warpage
Thanks for your comment about the word bloviator.
High falutin’ rhetoric, when it’s false, comes from the ego, not from living a practical life. Ezra Pound’s mantra was the Latin, Catholic adage, “Ora et labora.” Work and prayer. His daughter, a poet and still alive, follows the same path. She’s 94 years old. Listen to her words — the last sentence – at the end of this video.
#17 Thanks for your feedback on my observation Joey Virgo – Judg-y sort of judgement – yes there was plenty of that in the FoF. I think I was also thinking back about the Gurdjieff system concept of an octave, which was implemented in a particular way by Burton (I have read other approaches, for example in books by J G Bennett). It was a novel idea, and we were encouraged to pick it up and run with it, and we did. Especially the idea of the two intervals, and how they required an extra injection of energy to allow forward movement. I think it is an example of the types of idea that esoteric systems produce, where confirmation bias is going to allow nearly everyone to “verify” that there is truth in the concept. And once we have done that, we will start to “apply” it whenever we hit any kind of snag in our projects. The word “octave” was used very extensively. It was almost a signature of someone being a FoF student, that everything they were doing was an octave. What circumstance or observations would ever have led a good student to falsify that idea? I find Karl Popper’s ideas about knowledge and the progress of scientific knowledge helped me see how most of the 4th way concepts (centre of gravity, chief feature, body type, man number 4 etc) were unfalsifiable, and therefore of dubious merit as explanations of the world we live in.
19. John Harmer
” I find Karl Popper’s ideas about knowledge and the progress of scientific knowledge helped me see how most of the 4th way concepts (centre of gravity, chief feature, body type, man number 4 etc) were unfalsifiable, and therefore of dubious merit as explanations of the world we live in.”
Bravo! Yes! Yes! Very grounding and scientific. Unfalsifiability was Popper’s main contribution for a science of philosophy in the scientific method. To test whether an idea had predictability or not. So with the idea of testing or discovering ideas with too much explanatory power such that they couldn’t be tested, he ripped the veil off Freudian psychology and Marxism as unscientific or pseudo-scientific. And I think even Jung’s archetypes can fit in the same category as unscientific or pseudo-scientific, along with all the esoteric matters you listed from the FoF “school.”
(Although I today struggle still with remnants of two specific body type classifications: Mercuries and Saturns. I just can’t quite shake their reality in some ways. And the stuff about the effects of the moon still grabs my consciousness, being as we are, for example, just three days away from the New Moon now and “irritability” has played with me for several hours. Many times right in the “interval” between new and full moons, I experience such overwhelming chaos and negativity that the “moon theory” makes no sense whatsoever and therefore is decidedly false but yet it must have some sense to it nonetheless since police and emergency reports do reports increase of crime and injury during moon phases and the interval feels more like a full moon than a real full moon phase. “The moon is too near the earth and makes men mad.” Was Shakespeare just expressing a superstition, a belief of the time, an easy rhyme of no particular significance? ) It’s totally denied by science, but what tests have they done exactly? I know I don’t know. So I’m not in the altogether category or complete rejection but will cop to being “confused” to some degree.)
And John Bennett’s understanding of octaves was very different from anything that we learned in the FoF. I haven’t read any account of what Bennett’s students really experienced working with the idea of the octave under Bennett’s teaching.
You are right that FoFers nearly always referred to octaves and intervals, and in just the ways you posited. You are a really good historian of the culture of the FoF through your remembrances, I must say. Signature is the right word for this discussion about FoFers’ language about octaves.
Nobody ever talked scientifically as to whether we were in a fa-so sequence or a la-ti one. It was either “sounding the do,” or being in a “mi-fa” or “si-do” interval over and over again, but no shared observations about our activities along the rest of the octave, so the main idea, without any qualifications or variation, quickly became just routine, bromidic, and self-fulfilling because we saw what we wanted to see and saw nothing more with our less than discerning eyes.
Excuse my ignorance, John, but aren’t you a musician? A pianist? Don’t you have a YouTube channel? I wondered how important the “esoteric idea of octaves” was to you for appreciating music or creating music when I came upon your channel only just a couple of days ago — if indeed that is your channel. What say you? Does “the octave” in an esoteric sense have any applicability or influence for you in your enjoyment of or ability to create music or is it a complete non-starter and completely irrelevant?
Still, for all my “entrainment” in the theory of octaves from the FoF teachings, whenever I do a sink full of dishes in the morning, I still usually forget to wash the coffee cup in the other room.
I remember the phrase “dog octave” around 1981-82. I think that was my favorite of all. And just to remind people, since we’re on the topic of FOFBS, “the moon” is this coming Saturday.
21. Phutatorius
Tell me/us about the phrase “dog octave,” if you would. I left the FoF in November of 1982 and never heard this phrase — until today. What did it entail? Where did you hear it used most often?
(I know the New Moon is this Saturday; I noted the fact in my earlier comment to John Harmer, BS or not.)
Why was “dog octave” your favorite of all? It wasn’t related to the
Gurdjeffian idea of “bury the dog,” by any chance, was it? I can’t think how, but I don’t know. Was it the job/octave of taking care of Burton’s dog? I’m thinking this was a phrase only used “at Renaissance.” Am I right? You made me curious.
Joey Virgo
Sorry, mate…it is becoming that you enjoy the sound of your word processor far too much…therefore, I skipped your last two posts…it would help if you were concise.
23. warpage
Not a problem. Shove it.
Today, yet another Fellowsheepet said, “I think Robert has dementia. It’s Dorian who keeps him and meetings together.”
Doesn’t sound like a great combination: dementia and power.
Of course, to the vast majority of Fellowsheepers, the more bizarre the Burton fantasy bubble becomes (like being visited by the Absolute), the more they attribute it to a higher and higher “state of consciousness,” despite the fact that they know absolutely nothing about which they ascribe to Burton.
25. Insider
“I think Robert has dementia. It’s Dorian who keeps him and meetings together.”
I thought this was already obvious from the YouTube videos that people have posted over the last couple of years featuring Her Heinous and Dorian. No?
It is scary — power & dementia together, I agree — unless the “dark state” within, with sheeple (mutating into wolves from all the corruption) like Rowena and Linda and Dorian, already have developed a Plan B, of which I have already heard rumors does exist – to be revealed upon his/her/its collapse or demise.
Yes/No? Don’t know?
18. Joey Virgo
From the youtube video you posted,
as per your suggestion, the last sentence ends:
“. . .the idea is you always have to know your self.”
Mary de Rachewiltz
This idea, to know your self,
is not exclusive to The Fellowship of Friends or The Fourth Way.
The Temple of Apollo at Delphi, also called The Oracle of Delphi,
had certain maxims inscribed. At the entrance on one side it said:
“Know Thyself” and on the other side: “All things in moderation.”
#20 Yes, Joey Virgo I do play the piano. However I did not find that the law of octaves had much relevance to music as such.
You bring up the moonphase theory. I have also heard that there are some statistical correlations with emergency room events, and I don’t know what causes that. What I am sure about is that the cause put forward by Rodney Collin and repeated as gospel in the FoF is nonsense. They say that the moon has an effect because we are composed of a high percentage of water, and look at the effect of the moon on the oceans. I mean to say. That’s gravity, which affects all matter, not just water. In the end I gave up trying to explain that to fellow students.
But I think it IS a good example, as it is a good case of a theory that can easily be “verified” through confirmation bias. It was even more common than the claim to have verified “C influence” for FoF students to claim to have verified that the moon phases affected their mood. It was one of the early doubts I had. I used to phrase it like this. Someone is in a bad mood, they say to others in the room, is it a moon phase? Well it was often a day or so from one of the phases (which are every 2 weeks after all), and if it wasn’t, the person in a bad mood would just say “Oh well it must be some other planetary alignment then” So either way they “verified” that there was some spooky astrological influence going on.
Why would people buy into this? Well it allowed them to forgive themselves for feeling negative (a cardinal sin after all) as the moon phase and other planetary alignments were not their direct responsibility, unlike their petty identifications and lack of ability to separate from their play.
Joey Virgo:
“(I know the New Moon is this Saturday; I noted the fact in my earlier comment to John Harmer, BS or not.)”
Fact? Maybe it’s time you switch off your computer and go out and take a look at the night sky tonight.
22. Joey: You and I left at just about the same time. The “dog octave” was a phrase I heard that year, probably in Palo Alto and San Francisco. It referred to “students” owning dogs. I think that was new at the time. Nothing to do with G’s “bury the dog deeper.” Few FOFers had ever read “All and Everything,” let alone reading it as G. directed (twice silently and once aloud). I had. I just liked the sound of the phrase: ie “this octave is a real dog.” It was probably devised by one of the more irreverent “students” with whom I associated.
On September 9, late at night, fofblogmoderator asked me to stop posting for a few days as he felt I was making myself a “feature” on the blog and that he wanted the blog to “breathe,” so I did as he requested and didn’t respond to the (mostly) kind, intelligent, and very friendly commenters who took me seriously before I received the notice to cease and desist.
The very next day, however, the fofblogmoderator contacted me re-inviting me back, claiming that I seem to be communicating with a few people (not sure if this was an observation or a criticism), (because comments from ex-FoFers to me were coming in after he gave me notice?), adding that no one has complained about me or my posts to him, but that “I” am taking up “a bit of space,” IHHO.
I apologize to John Harmer and Phutatorius as well as Wouldn’t You Like to Know for not responding in a timely manner to their recent comments. I think I’ve explained my situation now well enough.
My goal wasn’t to feature myself so much as to assist in featuring others posting here by attempting to draw them into a dialogue or conversation by asking questions, posing claims, provocative or otherwise, if I had some ability to do this and do it sincerely or earnestly. This was entirely an experiment on my behalf and it interested me very much emotionally.
I really have just wanted to have a rousting conversation with literally everyone who has currently or in the past posted here, because the blog doesn’t seem to have much value unless we’re all exchanging our stories, ideas, feelings, evaluations, ad infinitum — openly and with a decent maturity to handle unavoidable disagreements.
Almost everything in the current world is related to our having been hoaxed in the FoF, including our current world of fake news, pseudoscience, open conspiracies and staged events IMHO. So why not share our knowledge, wisdom, questions, trials, uncertainties, viewpoints, etc. both in and out of the FoF?
About taking up too much space at times, I felt my reasoning for it was based on context and the complexity of the subject, and I don’t compare myself with Goethe certainly — and I’m not justifying unnecessary prolixity — but he made a very insightful remark about editing and writing in one of his letters to a correspondent that bears repeating: “I would have written a shorter letter if I had more time.”
Joey Virgo,
I was thinking somewhat similarly to the moderator –
– based on a quick calculation, if my math is correct, on this page your posts represent about 42 percent of the total… that seems like a lot for one person…. not that I’m keeping track. without the break suggested by moderator I suspect that percentage would be quite a bit higher… but I figure you’re just getting something out of your “system” and none of the posts have been offensive or overly combative, I recognize that most of your posts are attempts to draw people into conversation, as you say….
33. tontu
Ha. And you’re one of the commenters I had been hoping to draw in, but you remained silent for the whole of the past month– until now. I had a plan to mention a possible discussion about dreams on this blog with you and other participants just because of your pages-ago cogent and insightful comment and discussion about dreams, particularly FoF dreams, comments I resonated with fairly deeply. I copied out one or two of them out for my own version of Bartlette’s Book of Quotations on my computer. No foolin’. So sorry to learn that “quick calculations” according to statistics constitute “good judgment” for you, but you’re entitled to your opinion certainly. Thanks for getting that I was only trying to draw people into conversation. (Not sure I’ve given up on that goal.) While I disagree with your opinion, I know at the same time you’re not a machine.
Joey Virgo
Draw me in, baby…
I long to dally on your Microsoft Meanderings…most enlightening.
35. warpage
As the adage goes, my ears are open for appreciation, but for criticism you need to make an appointment.
When you demand concision, show proofreader notes on the aforementioned text regarding where the necessary edits apply — in order to prove you know something about how to keep the meaning without cutting it out in the editing process or for merely the sake of pleasing an ant’s attention span. Terseness is not the same as concision.
Joey Virgo.
“A picture paints…”, as they say…
37. warpage
“A picture paints . . . “??? Who says this?
Joey Virgo.
Shakespeare or The Bible…
Has to be one of these (I think the desired effect was had, do you not think?).
39. warpage
Maybe. Honestly, I think your intention here is to mean well and to let bygones be, which is great. Have I then not clearly heard you? Don’t respond if I have — unless, of course, you want to.
A pie in the sky or up-high in the sky. Wheel or we’ll — it all depends on what I prom a shoe or your connotative point of view. I offer here a galIimaufry or salamagundi instead. I do spend at least a little time every day in the mud musically earful, not unlike you. Enough said.
Joey Virgo
In teacher training, it is well known…”the purpose of teaching is that learning must take place”…thus, that we both should, at length, understand…
https://grammarist.com/proverb/a-picture-is-worth-a-thousand-words/
41. warpage
I know the adage. I’m American-born, arriving on the planet in the first half of the 20th century, so the help you felt I needed isn’t something I had need of learning. I must have given you the wrong impression somehow, in which way the words of Anonymous are applicable:
“I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard isn’t what I meant.”
You wrote, “A picture paints . . .” (38) Paints what? I asked. And I asked you whosoever said “A picture paints. . .”?
You only said they said. But nobody ever said “a picture paints,” except you, and what you said wasn’t accurate or even a literal or true mirroring of the language from the adage you apparently wanted to employ, which is why I questioned you as to what was your meaning.
So . . . a picture can’t paint. A painter paints. A picture or a photograph can convey what thousands of words cannot say better. That info is in the link you wanted to me read. hat’s often true enough, but not always. Picasso’s Guernica depicts a battle or war in Spain, but you have to know more to appreciate that particular painting. The adage you tried to employ with me and then later tried to teach me about isn’t about “a picture painting.” The proverb is “A picture is worth a thousand words.” No variations. And the rub is that there was no picture involved here either in the context of our exchange: there was only a music video with lyrics and melody in it. I can only say, in the words of Stella Wirk from her now defunct Wirkshop newsletter, “Arrrgghhhhh!!!!”
Look, unlike most people, I’m really just an average person and I speak and write only American English.
““Oh words, what crimes are committed in your name?” — Eugene Ionesco.
Thank you for all attempts.
42. Joey Virgo
Correction: Fifth para., 2nd sentence: “That info is in the link you wanted me to read. That’s often true enough, but not always.”
Joey Virgo
I must admit to attempting to ‘flush the fox from his lair’ with you, inasmuch as I have a good grounding in English Language and Literature (thesis required for a Bachelors and regular essays and final thesis for a Certificate in Education). I also love the spoken word – in as many languages as I can master – poetry and writing social critique myself.
Thus, it was a pompous slant on my part to assume you would ‘crumble under silly mightiness’ which you did not. However, your admission that you wanted to ‘draw people in’ may create risky territory inasmuch as folks here have different approaches and you have probably discovered that the answer you seek is not the one you get.
However, good luck, and stand advised by the moderator.
Joey Virgo and warpage, there is no private messenger function on this site but it you two would like to communicate privately I can pass on your emails to each other if you wish.
45 moderator
You are free to pass on my private email…I do agree that ‘thrashing things out’ to a certain point does not leave enough space for other bloggers.
This is insane.
47. brucelevy
I absolutely agree. A voice of reason. I’m going to try silence now.
43. Joey Virgo – August 31, 2019 (previous page)
Your response to my post (40.) indicated that I should make this clear: I did not “quote Samuel Sanders” – “voice [my] attitude or viewpoint.”
After reading John Harmer’s post (39.) re: “Another cult leader who abused his power,” I read the whole (disturbing) RIGPA Report https://www.rigpa.org/independent-investigation-report.
Then I posted Dr. Herman’s paragraph, re: “the perpetrator,” together with that long message and expose posted by Bares Reposting – September 10, 2016:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold
is for people of good conscience
to remain silent.
Edmund Burke
* * * * * *
FoF Blog Page 5/#363:
‘Perpetua Says:
April 7th, 2007 at 8:42 am
I found this letter in Stella Wirk’s website.
I think some of you might like to know about it.’
Bottom line of 86. Bares Reposting: ‘Everyone in the hierarchy involved in keeping the membership in the dark certainly is responsible for supporting this unfortunate situation.’
Btw, Joey, Dr. Deikman was my psychiatrist in San Francisco, 1976 -78.
False prophets, teachers, and gurus is still in flux and progress on A Cult Survivor’s Handbook. PART III includes Mr. G.
http://www.survivorshandbook.com/false-prophets-part-iii/
If you send me an email with your phone # in it, I will call you.
Does this man look trustworthy, let alone a wholesome human being?
Sexuality is found in a wholesome human being, as a way in which they MAINTAIN THEIR BEING. Obviously giving rise to the sex act (and everyone must discover a ‘workable mode’ for them – an intimate, loving relationship, the rearing of children, the work of their choice in life that brings meaning, the accomplishment in all arts – offspring of the soul – I think we could have many posts on this subject, may we not?).
For me, in post 50. above, this corpse that is only moved by lust, greed and power – the THREE DANGERS RULING THE WORLD, whereby honest folk are made to suffer – is only found attractive by the ‘similarly demented’ with same ‘features’.
This final paragraph is an abstract for me – I had no ‘sexual dealings’ with REB and would urgently urge those drawn to his ‘lying lair’ to weigh up what Burton wants to take from them against the vacuous baubles, world trips and prestige.
Hey! I wonder if Dorian Matei has multiple-STD’s yet?
I participated a couple pages ago, but find this ranting immature, hollow, subjective and not very interesting, so I stayed away. Any chance we can get back on track?
52. Honeur
Gentle blogger…this blog finds many tracks and, as that to which you may be pertaining, often finds itself in a rut. I would welcome your question or expliquee on a subject to offer something to ‘nourish the cerebral regions’.
good bye blog; too much bs
good bye blog, too much bs
See 50./51…
(and join up the dots in the Dictator Puzzle)…
Go away Nigel.
57. brucelevy
I have left it several hours since your (this time lacking expletives) gentle request. As I mentioned earlier…a) Steve has sought to allow me to remain, even with ton2u ‘unmasking’ my latest pseudonym (and that was two pages ago), and b) I have, myself, sought not to be inflammatory, not allowing former non-lucid, non-euthymic thought patterns to muddy the (as it is, at present) lively activity on the blog.
I have learned to ‘pull down the symbolic’ from other states (whether altered or weird?) to rest-gentle in my daily life and have never before felt such self-understanding, self-reliance and self-empowerment. You may like to know this Saturday gone marked the fifth anniversary of being released from a section in hospital.
Nelson Mandela stated that with great freedom comes great responsibility. I hope that spills over and effuses into all areas of my life, including what you and others find here.
Thank you for your kind consideration.
Blog Takes A Wordless Breath
THE INTERNET-After more than 10 years of tireless dedication warning the public to think twice about stepping into the quicksand of the Fellowship of Friends and documenting the behind-the-scenes machinations of the cult’s chief sexual predator Robert E Burton, “the blog”, as it has been called, has taken the unprecedented step of pausing itself, allowing C-influence to clear the loosely moderated forum of those spewing non-sequitur “bs”.
“The last page sucked”, posted one frustrated blogger, Too much bullshit, not enough FOF yak shit. I’m outta here.”
Apparently other bloggers seemed to be choosing to remain silent in a vain effort to raise self-awareness in others unable to censor their own verbal stream of unconsciousness.
“Don’t worry, the blog is just in an interval, about to attain a new level”, claimed one cult follower, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of reprisal for reading the blog in private and tacitly promoting the pseudo-science of “octaves”, “only a conscious effort by C-influence will bridge it. You’ll see.”
59. WhaleRider
Brucelevy has surriptitiously reminded me that certain pseudo-psychs need to get a certificate in something worthwhile…he mentioned LIFE.
Life is but a dream.
In December 2017 a very revealing document called “Fifty Years with Angels” was published. I’ve read on this blog that Burton has decreed that all Fellowship documents before a certain date are no longer valid, and that students were asked to rid themselves of them. Still the book was issued and allows a close look at the self centered and narcissistic mindset of Burton. It shows what happens when someone lives so entirely in their own echo chamber, that they have no clue how their statements sound to unbiased listeners. The book is still on sale at amazon.com with 5 reviews so far, four give it 5 stars, one is negative with only a single star.
Here are some of the statements that caught my eye in the book:
He switches between use of the personal pronouns “I” and “we”, which strikes me as a gesture of faux modesty. For example on page one we read: “I did not know what the truth was, but I knew that I had not
found it. The truth certainly was not where I was, but then we found the truth or, rather, the truth – Influence C- found us and infused the truth within us.” He continues relating various events that led to him joining Alex Horn’s group, it seems even back then he was subject to ideas of reference, if a butterfly lands on his finger, he interprets it as a sign of his special destiny. There is a interesting paragraph on page 7, where he says “In his group there was a lot of violence and bloodshed, but it did not work. I was able to verify that force cannot break the lower self. Only love can do that – the conscious love we have
for one another.” I remember this being the party line when I was a member, and for years I believed it. The “no gossip” task ensured that the psychological torture that he meeted out to his many lovers was concealed, and it was not until a brave individual visited the London centre in 1989, and shared details of how he had for years felt trapped in a situation that he could not find his way out of, that I became aware
of the sordid truth of the situation. This young man was a sincere spiritual seeker, and valued the disciplines of the Gurdjieff work, but he felt unable to confide in the older students who surrounded and supported Burton in his role, about how he was regularly required to submit to sodomy and being sexually used for Burton’s personal satisfaction and relief.
Burton is very clear that he rates himself as a very special person, who only has the very highest motives for what he does. He contrasts himself with Alex Horn who bought a property for his school, and put it in his own name. Burton brags “I did not have one thought of putting Apollo in my name. It belongs to the school; it is for us and for those who follow. I did not have a single ‘I’ like that; that is why we have a school. This kind of generous action, and all of the many things that you support, are making Apollo what it is and making you what you are: conscious beings.” Given the many stories of his lust for baubles and trinkets, and shamelessly demanding the return of jewellery which students thought had been given to them (and which they had paid for
through obligatory “donations”), it makes me smile to hear him assess himself as “generous”. Later on on the same page he makes the statement “Now we are all conscious beings in this room” which must have been very flattering for those in the room, I can imagine the warm glow they would have all felt.
A few pages later he makes some statements about his failed prophetic pronouncements. He says ” Revelation 10:7 says, “But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished” he follows this in the next paragraph with “Sometimes the gods manifest the outer meaning, which may be hydrogen warfare – the Last Judgement. I do not need to be right about these omens; I merely pass them on as they were passed to me. Sir Walter Scott said, “I cannot tell how the truth maybe; I say the tale as it was said to me” I see this as an extraordinary statement. No one forced him to make prophecies, but given that he makes them, and all the independently verifiable ones (Depression, California falling into the ocean, Nuclear war etc) have proved to be false, surely he has to question whether Influence C really do write the play, or whether he is confabulating these messages he thinks come from higher forces. Apparently he sees no need to do that. He hides behind his humble attitude that he passes on what he gets, and if it turns out to be false, well whatever.
We get a hint about the mechanics of the messages he gets from Influence C a few pages later.”I was by myself looking at the Airstream trailers in the Court of the Caravans, and I had an ‘I’ that they looked like the early atomic bombs. Then Leonardo said “Any fool could see that.” It was a third-state moment.” So apart from his ideas of reference – making connections with car number plates etc, he experiences voices in his head. A classic sign of a psychotic mental condition.
A few pages later he reveals an interesting anecdote from his early childhood. “I remember once, when I was about ten years old, I was gathering walnuts with my mother in Orinda, a suburb of Berkeley. The estate of Henry J. Kaiser – the wealthy industrialist – was nearby, and his son asked me to drive with him around his property. He had his own little road system and his own little car. We were the same age so my mother allowed me to go. He drove me around his estate and it was like being admitted to Paradise. That was preparation for entering Paradise when that time comes. It is not so far away, in fact” Well, it seems to me that for most of the people he names as inspiration, the concept of Paradise as being a rich man’s estate in which you have your own little road system and your own little car, would be laughed at for its brazen enviousness. He seems to have tried to create his very own version of this childhood dream in Oregon House.
At that point part one of the book concludes. I will leave my commentary there for now.
Thank you, John Harmer, very enlightening!
John Harmer: Well, he built it at Apollo, didn’t he. Own road system, own car. Personally, I think reading the book is a waste of time, no offense.
On another note: Years ago I read here on the blog about an ex-student/member who, after leaving, contacted the FBI. He met a couple times with a (I think, female) agent at his university’s library. The agent told him at some point that there was not enough material to take it further, or, she’ll look into it and he never heard back… I can’t really remember. I’ve since tried to locate this post again, but wasn’t able to find it. It might have been 2008 or 2009.
Honeur,
Here’s a reference to that reported FBI contact.
Mr Stephen Fry, who moved to Los Angeles in 2017, may have some interest in cultish activity investigation. This, indeed, may be an enlightening interlude.
62. John Harmer – September 24, 2019
Thank you, John, for posting your excellent commentary and conclusions about Robert Burton’s memoir, “Fifty Years with Angels”.
I remember that it was co-written with a student after Burton had a close call with his heart in 2017. Writing your observations about Burton’s book here is of course a great idea, as fence-sitting and prospective students probably do look in now and then and might see it. You pull back the curtain on Burton! Why not publish an edited version as a review for the book on its Amazon listing? You could distill your observations in a way that would be comprehensible by even those unfamiliar with Burton.
64. Honeur – September 25, 2019
Honeur, I have skimmed a few pages but haven’t purchased or read the book myself. I appreciate that John took the time to do so, though, as his commentary sheds useful light on the charlatanism and mental distortions of Burton. I would call it a schizophrenic mental condition, though, rather than psychotic, that is, if Burton isn’t just making all this stuff up!
~ ~ ~
Remember the “buffering” concept? I just saw a very interesting documentary about the SNL comedian Darryl Hammond, who began cutting his arms at age 19 – to create pain that he could deal with – after suffering severe psychological and violent abuse by his mother when he was a very young child, He suppressed the traumatic events that happened to him and coped by addiction, cutting himself and becoming an expert mimic, later becoming famous on SNL for his portrayals of Bill Clinton and other public figures.
Maybe Burton’s endless collecting of trinkets and art – and what is clearly a sex addiction – along with creating his own little Versailles with its court of pandering admirers – is all due to some kind of strange buffering of his own early childhood trauma. Also, schizophrenia and addiction – can spring from childhood trauma. It appears from Hammond’s story that he did not subjugate others as Burton has done for many decades. In this interview with clips from the film, Hammond says that he thought his mother might have been abused herself.
I met Stella in summer 1982. I had been in less than a year. I was very enthusiastic. I spent many hours around her over quite a few weeks. She never denigrated the FOF, nor REB. Stella told me REB told her to take her dogs to the county pound because they were mutts, and FOF members were only permitted 1 thoroughbred dog. She knew her dogs had been killed at the pound. This was the first outrage I heard in relation to the FOF, but I ignored it. In FOF terms I buffered the outrage.
Stella seemed to me completely sane, but very tired, weary even, especially at my enthusiasm (at that time) for the FOF. I didn’t understand her attitude. Then she was out. I was told she was kicked out for smoking again.
Joey Virgo, you may not have read a lot of this blog. There has been a long history of mentally ill people posting vast amounts of words. Some of us don’t consider they pertain much to the topic here. These people tend to disappear, then reappear under new names. So don’t take anything personally. As the famous New Yorker cartoon pointed out, on the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog.
68. Invictus maneo.
“So don’t take anything personally.”
I so appreciate your helpful words and rare empathy. I’ve always known the mentally ill appear occasionally on the blog, but I never chose to directly interact before with any of them until recently. Now I know.
Exposing Robert Burton The Crook and The Fellowship of Friends Cult BOOK is now available for purchase at the following link:
https://app.thebookpatch.com/BookStore/ocean-tiger-on-a-volcano/2c95fe3d-0d62-489a-9e65-bc9c153eb91a
Here is the excerpt from the back of the book:
“OCEAN TIGER ON A VOLCANO is the true account of Eric Albert Costa, a whistle blower and former member of the Fellowship of Friends. In this book he describes details of the mind control and human trafficking cult called Apollo in Yuba County, California, and shares never before released information and photographs exposing the cult’s ring leader Robert Earl Burton and his Inner-Circle members for crimes against humanity. Eric lived at the mind control facility Apollo for one month and opens a window into a world rarely seen before. His book outlines hundreds of different mind control methods used by Robert Burton which had been kept under lock and key until now. Eric dedicates this book to the thousands of survivors and their family members affected by the criminal organization the Fellowship of Friends, and to medical practitioners who work with the traumatized victims to heal. Finally, this book was created to answer the many questions posed by journalists and law enforcement agents who now have the missing piece to the puzzle that is the Fellowship of Friends: MIND CONTROL. May this story fully embody the light and healing energy it was designed for. Aho/Amen.”
Thank You to everyone who has supported me through this writing process. I know you are really going to enjoy this book. Please share my book with whoever you feel may benefit from reading it. Every penny of income goes towards my daily necessities. A special thanks to the robertearlburton.blogspot.com moderator for helping this information get out to the public. Visit my YouTube channel AGE OF GAIA for more information.
Here is the link to my YouTube channel where I’ve posted new audio that summarizes my experience within The Fellowship of Friends for the undoubted journalists, psychologists, and law enforcement personnel who want to know the exact story but did not have time to hear the 8 hour original audio.
I will be on wordpress today for a few hours if anyone has questions.
Ocean Tiger, I have listened to your audio, and sympathise with your descriptions of being conned by Robert Burton, and traumatised by the experiences you had when a member of the FoF.
I must say however that I have deep reservations when you mention that you have understood the truth about what happened to you by following the ideas put forward by David Icke. David Icke has advanced such outrageous ideas over the past 30 years, that he cannot be considered a reliable source of information. Here is his wikipedia entry in case you had not heard all the assertions he has made over the years. They are crazier even than the ideas that Burton promulgates, and that is saying something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke
Good luck with your quest to expose the FoF, which certainly operates as the tool of Burton, and I hope you find some joy after your years of trouble.
Ocean Tiger
MK Ultra? David Icke, really? His endorsement of the antisemitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Sounds to me like you’re just another con man on a different bent. A whole month at Apollo? Wow, what a trauma. You’re just another psychological criminal.
But I’m sure there are plenty of people who read this blog who are ready to lap up your bullshit. Then you can start your own cult.
70. Ocean Tiger
Thanks for making the 7-8 videos and this book available. There’s always something to be gained by hearing another’s point of view. I’ll withhold judgement and comment until after I have read the book.
70 – 71. Ocean Tiger – September 28, 2019
Be brave and courageous, for adversity is the proving ground of virtue.
~ Leon Battista Alberti
As Italian Renaissance architect and humanist Alberti proclaims in the above quotation, there is value to be found in facing adversity courageously.
I haven’t read your book, but I know that like many of us, you were bamboozled into thinking you were getting a Fourth Way education at an exclusive, esoteric school. But only a rare few have had the courage to write an extensive, firsthand account such as you have. Writing about your month at Apollo and year spent with the Fellowship of Friends with the aim of warning prospective students is laudable. And aside from being a warning beacon to others – including possibly notifying the authorities – writing the book and creating an audio memoir YouTube series about your Fellowship of Friends experience is clearly part of your own unique healing process. Maybe that is the most important thing about it.
Although this must have been a formidable undertaking, I hope that this book is only the first of many – and by others, too, who are courageous enough to tell about what they experienced and/or witnessed – in their own words. Ocean Tiger, I think you could publish your book on Amazon as well at no charge. Although Amazon takes a cut, they could potentially drive a much greater readership to your book.
And now for something completely different… I like to post this wonderful animated video short now and then in the hope that it will inspire Fellowship of Friends students to say “No!” – or “No more!”
74. brucelevy
”
But I’m sure there are plenty of people who read this blog who are ready to lap up your bullshit.”
Sad, but true, eh? You’re right – and not for the first time either, as you probably already know.
Thank You for both the constructive and destructive comments and emails. I am happy to see how many people have listened to the official audio and bought the book. For me this book is an artistic masterpiece and at times quite fun reading. The original manuscript was going to be 300 pages yet I removed a great deal of what I thought unecessary or without primary source evidence; the 164 pages are rich and densely packed with both new information, photos, and jokes. A question arises: Are you sure you were not just brainwaished, and not, as you said, mind controlled? Here I will breifly explain. Brainwashing can be used to convince or erase from the mind on a surface level certain facts or events which would not like to be known, for example, in the Military-Industrial Complex, even those with security clearance for secret projects are often brainwashed to forget what they know, and any of you military persons reading this know it is so. There are ways to do this including drugs, technology, and hypnosis; I am using this as an EXAMPLE. Mind Control, on the other hand, is the formal and exact programming of the subconscious mind through keys and triggers to create a robotic slave. It is far more involved and coercive than brainwashing. It as different as, for example, a Soldier who is brainwashed to forget a project he oversaw of the trafficking of drugs or weapons BY mind controlled slaves/robots. Now those who were not traumtized by Robert Burton are naturally going to believe I am paranoid. Those who sat in the meetings and counted cards while paying tithes are obviously going to think this is dillusional. Who cares? If you read my book you will see how I connect the Fellowship of Friends with intelligence agencies and mind control. A month at Apollo was enough time for me to observe and experience, as a young man being groomed to become a sex slave, what was FORMAL AND EXACT SUBCONSCIOUS PROGRAMMING THROUGH KEYS AND TRIGGERS AS WELL AS DRUGS AND TRAUMA. “Curioser and curioser,” said Alice. Another question which arises is, “What does MK Ultra have to do with the Fellowship of Friends?” and it is a good question. In this case I cite Project MK Ultra as an example for those who are hearing or reading my material for the first time and have never heard of mind control and want to understand more. I am not suggesting the Fellowship of Friends is directly linked with Project MK Ultra, yet it is a great reference point for those who NEED to know more, specificially the family members and therapists who live with and treat the inhorenrence and trauma of the young men who are spun out of The Galleria. Please have compassion for these young men before stamping them with any labels. Those who have researched this evil cult know what I am saying. I am thankful to be DOING something about the evil I observed and experienced. I am thankful that journalists are picking up on the story and therapists have more information to understand the trauma of their young male clients. Am I paranoid to imply mind control is what Robert Burton and his higher-ups used? I suggest talking face to face with not just one, but several, of the young men who were drugged and raped against their will and tell them they are acting paranoid. Some members counted cards while others were abused behind the curtain. I am thankful to YOU for reading this and esepcially those who actively pursue justice for the victims and are not sitting on their hands being entertained by the latest updates. For direct communication please email me. Cheers
78. Ocean Tiger – October 1, 2019
Entwining theories of conspiracies with facts of actual abuse could affect how your readers perceive you in a negative sense – and dilute the impact of your Fellowship of Friends story. Having reviews posted by readers could help you discern whether drawing in material from the MLK Ultra program of the CIA and controversial figures like David Icke, who exceeds Burton in outrageous predictions and claims of identity (see first post dated 06-12-2007, 11:17 AM by Eternal Spirit in the link below) would damage your credibility.
If copies of your book have not been printed in advance – a large number of copies – that’s a good thing as you can always revise it sooner rather than later, if you want to, and release a second edition.
https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=15434
79. Golden Veil
Not to mention the Chem trails horse shit.
I have noticed we repeatedly become enamored of sets of all-explaining, purportedly hidden ideas, usually propounded by a charismatic person who gains money, power or sex from these ideas. When we become disillusioned with the person promoting these sets of ideas, we become as upset with the promoter as we would a jilted lover, rather than reflecting on how we believed a bunch of intellectual nonsense. Many of us then go on to believe in yet another set of all-explaining ideas proposed by yet another charismatic person making money, power or sex off the arrangements.
Sometimes this is in the context of politics. We fall for one candidate or another, one party or another, and truly believe the chosen savior will cure the the country, Make It Great Again, or Move Forward to a perfect future. We don’t see that ALL these politicians and political parties are just con artists trying to extract money, power and sex, using lies.
Sometimes this is in the context of religion, like the FOF. From my perspective the entire New Age phenomenon seems to have been a family of related cons on the public. I may be wrong, since I only fell for one New Age religion.
I try not to be too hard on these people, on myself. I myself fell for the stupid FOF bullshit, after all, so it couldn’t have been too hard to con me.
A way out of this trap is to notice how easy it is for us as individuals to be conned, and then ask why I personally fell for this last con. And all the others. Why have I been conned so often in the past? What can I do to prevent myself from being conned in the future? You see, the problem is that I am susceptible to being conned. The problem is not the con artists out there. I can’t do anything about the con artists out there, because they set up the entire system of this world. But I can pay attention to what Apollo and Socrates taught us, and know myself. Then maybe I can avoid being conned AGAIN in the future.
81. invictus maneo
Excellent advice and understanding of the situation. I call it taking responsibility for ourselves and owning up to our own mistakes. Repeatedly making the same mistake isn’t an accident; it’s a decision.
81. invictus maneo – October 2, 2019
Very astute commentary. Yes, knowing oneself is important.
Caution with time spent online is needed especially today when it can so easily become an obsessive activity. The internet is full of wacky conspiracy theories, from the mystical to the political. A kind of pseudo life may be lived and “views” may be the currency some, such as professional YouTubers, seek with their digital tales and thus earn the attention of advertisers and earn monetary support.
Finding oneself digging deeper and deeper into theories, spending hours and hours online, is definitely a form of addiction. As Ocean Tiger wrote, “‘Curiouser and curiouser,’ said Alice.” One can start chasing that rabbit down the hole and not come up again for hours, days, weeks, months. It’s a good idea to give the computer a rest now and then and do something real ~ head outdoors, see friends, volunteer to assist others in need, garden, cook, do some canning, wash the car, walk the dog, or in the words of daddy (lol, Jordan Peterson) clean your house. Do something in the real world…
78. Ocean Tiger
I agree with you that Robert Burton knows and employs many mind control techniques. I’m also glad you agree there is no provable link between Burton’s activities and MK Ultra (not MLK Ultra, Golden Veil).
I gather from comments 79-83 above, that many people here don’t see, believe in, or understand mind control as you described it in post 78. Yet, is it not true that the vast majority of posts in this blog, and in 1000s of other blogs and forums, not to mention millions of daily conversations around the water cooler about sports, politics, and social issues, are all attempts to sway the thoughts and opinions of other people? It may be done unconsciously, but is it not mind control, nevertheless? Social media is hardly more than a mind control swamp, which, for me, is a great reason to avoid it.
Yes, there are those more sincere posts here where someone is simply and honestly sharing their experience, or going through some inner process. But mostly we want other people to see the world as we see it; and if they won’t agree to it voluntarily, hopefully they will at least be “shamed” into silence. (E.g., this latest gem from Levy: “Not to mention the Chem trails horse shit.”)
So, if just about everyone engages in mind control, what’s so special about Burton? Why should the intelligence community care? So what if he has managed to get 1500 people to believe they are, without fail, going to Paradise? Someone, somewhere, has gotten hundreds of millions of people to believe there are 50 some genders, and a 5-year-old child should be allowed to choose the one they want to be. Which one is more dangerous?
So Burton jerks people around with one fanciful idea after another. Out of nothing, he decides that the greatest secret in the universe is the “Sequence,” and that every “school,” including the “prehistoric school,” practiced it, and subtly passed the secret to succeeding generations. With a well-practiced formula of “repetition plus receptivity” (i.e., the hypnotic state of “essence”), this idea got implanted in the Fellowship hive mind over the past 14 years.
Now (guess what), Burton has gotten rid of the “sequence.” It is no longer to be practiced or spoken of. Without any doubt, soon enough hardly anyone will remember that this “sequence” was once the center of everyone’s (faux-) spiritual life. “We never had a sequence, nor do we need it,” the hive will buzz.
The following is a sincere question (i.e. not rhetorical): What’s the difference between Burton’s mind control techniques and results, compared to the mind control used in the mass media, social media, other religions, advertising, movies, the family, and everywhere else we choose to look?
In response to Insider’s question about what distinguishes Burton’s form of mind control to the many other cultural activities: I recall that one of the activities that helped me extricate myself from the FoF after having been member for a decade, was enrolling in the Open University, a distance learning institution in the UK. The courses I took happened to be in science. The thing I noticed was that they were not dogmatic, they presented theories and models that might need to be adjusted in future, and they also gave as much weight to the reasons for accepting the theories as to the content of the theories themselves. In the seminars we were all encouraged to dispute the orthodoxies and try to improve on them if we could. This was a contrast to what I had become used to in the FoF. I had of course experienced this form of education before joining, but somehow over the years I had not noticed that gradually I had become used to taking whatever the teacher said as unassailable. If I had an opinion that was at odds with the currently established teaching, then that was my fault, and it was up to me to find out where I had not yet understood the point in question.
Now that may not seem a particularly radical distinction, and indeed it is not unique to the FoF. You mentioned social media, and many have remarked on the way these self segregate into enclaves, often characterised as echo chambers, where people reinforce the standard opinion of that crowd, and jump all over anyone who steps out of line. That is how I saw the FoF operating. If someone started to deviate from the true faith, they would be shunned, and either stop stating their opinions in public, or be asked to do so. It was often a prelude to their leaving, which we who remained dismissed as their having “lost the school”.
I remember also watching the events in Parliament, which had recently begun to be televised. Many decried the childish behaviour and how the politicians constantly attacked each other. But I found it a refreshing contrast to the sheep like behaviour in FoF meetings, and realised that Burton would never countenance that kind of challenge to his authority.
84. Insider – October 2, 2019
“What’s the difference between Burton’s mind control techniques and results, compared to the mind control used in the mass media, social media, other religions, advertising, movies, the family, and everywhere else we choose to look?”
I suppose you could say that for the most part, at least regarding spending hour upon hour on the internet, “no sexual favors” or “slave labor” among other Fellowship of Friends “results” differ.
You do win the prize for Machiavellian manipulation for disparaging simple posts such as mine, where I suggested that one might want to take a look at the amount of time spent online and the addictive factor of the internet – and calling it an attempt at “mind control”.
I was bamboozled by the Fellowship of Friends myself, my own needs at the time making me a perfect mark, albeit for my cultural knowledge and pocket book, not what was between my legs. Meeting Burton during my visit to the US center in Oregon House just served to tie up the red flags I’d missed in Europe and expedite my exit.
*Please pardon any inadvertent typos.
Couldn’t “mindfulness” or the practice of meditation be considered a form of “mind control”, only in a healthy sense?
I mean, individuals whom have no control of their minds are considered mentally ill, right?
And isn’t it true that followers of the FOF and the fourth way inherently believe in and are seeking the benefits of “mind control”? So why should they be concerned?
IMO, using the concept of “mind control” conjures up the chem trails of a nefarious conspiracy, which to the casual onlooker or neophyte doesn’t quite square with the FOF’s ploys of a maintaining a “cultured” appearance, antique trappings, or polite mannerisms.
So if one wants to be taken seriously, I think a more accurate description of the cult indoctrination techniques experienced in the FOF is systematic manipulation, leading one to act against their self interest for the sole benefit and enrichment of the authoritarian cult leader.
Aside from meeting the need of belonging that the group exploited in me, that’s ultimately how I felt in relation to burton…systematically manipulated.
@ 87 “systematic manipulation”
i.e. ‘grooming’ which is a process of ‘prepping’ the victim with the intention of committing sexual offense.
I remember the “centre” directors, especially KAREN around 1979, coaching us newbies who’d never even met Robert that “yes Robert” was the appropriate response to whatever “task” he might assign us. Also, their emphasis at the time on Ouspensky’s “Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution” with its insistence on absolute obedience to the teacher is revealing. I read it, but I thought to myself, “this could really be misused by an unscrupulous conman.”
Mindfulness is just a trend today, not much different than Norman Vincent Peale’s “The Power of Positive Thinking” was in the Fifties. It’s really just another type of consumer product for conformists.
I remember U.G. Krishnamurti stating in one of his books that meditation itself was just “mind parking,” where you park your brain temporarily. You really can’t stop thoughts or the mind’s movements. You might be able to ignore them to some degree, however.
Barbara Ehrenreich has written a book called “Natural Causes,” in part attacking the business of mindfulness.
Before the book appeared in 2018, she wrote a short essay, which is worth noting for the absence of any scientific evidence that mindfulness is truly healthy or helpful.
https://thebaffler.com/salvos/mind-your-business
(Note the comment about who does manual labor for the monks:
“During the same stint in the Bay Area, I learned that rich locals liked to unwind at Buddhist monasteries in the hills, where, for a few thousand dollars, they could spend a weekend doing manual labor for the monks.”
Mindfulness is a business. There’s even an app. for it.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-mindfulness-app-meditate/id417071430
Burton commodified the 4th Way and Silicon Valley commodified mindfulness.
Mindfulness or mind control / brainwash? If it is a cult, I’d call it mind control. Many cults practice voluntary “work days”. But I wouldn’t put on equal footing followers who do voluntary manual labor during a weekend or two for Buddhist monks with the full time followers Fellowship of Friends practice of earning a pittance (how much were you paid, folks?) for months or even years on end to build and maintain Apollo and its grounds or act as a servant to Robert Burton.
While a Buddhist monastery could be described as a religious cult, the Fellowship of Friends is more a doomsday and personality cult. It has most of these markers:
Charismatic leadership
Deception in recruiting
Use of thought-reform methods
Isolation (physical and/or psychological)
Demand for absolute, unquestioning devotion and loyalty
Sharp, unsurpassable distinction between “us” (good, saved) and “them” (bad, going to Hell)
“Inside language” that only members fully understand
Strict control over members’ daily routines ***
Suppression of many normal human activities over the years such as owning a pet that is not a pedigree type, eating during a meal while dining with the teacher, making jokes, using the word “I”, buying only a certain type of art, avoiding socializing with “Life” people, including one’s own immediate family and shunning friends and family members who leave the Fellowship… the list goes on.
All of us former (and the current students) have experienced exercises and tasks (thought reform methods) and have experienced what I like to call a “slow brainwash.” Thankfully, many of us were lucky enough to experience the right kind of “shock” and woke up – at least enough to get out of a cult that is destructive to individualism, and financially and sexually caters to the whims of its charismatic leader.
*** https://people.howstuffworks.com/cult1.htm
Note: This website may not be academic but it is on the nose regarding cults!
More about it here: https://www.howstuffworks.com/about-hsw.htm
I remember students in the Fellowship, older ones, in particular, who weren’t so staid and so full of rule-following as is the modern claim and Burton never threw them out because of their “bad” behavior. For them, if there was anything like “mind control,” they were not about to be of that “hive mind” or be a part of it. So, they didn’t go to meetings very often. They smoked grass when smoking pot was discouraged and prohibited. They engaged in sports and exercise when sports were verboten. They took what the REB said with a grain of salt because, after all, it was still a “theory” REB was enlightened and it was still a “theory” that following his advice was beneficial. They had independent minds and didn’t lose their minds in the process of co-habiting with other rule-following, believing followers. They had Fourth Way principles they followed. They didn’t hold the Fellowship in their minds or hearts with the iron-clad fist of a dictator. They were often irreverent and “non-formatory.”
During this time too there was no bed & breakfast weekends for outsiders; there was no theater for performances. The winery was more of an esoteric project than a commercial enterprise. If the Fellowship is a cult today it’s because people with a “hive mind” made it be that way. If REB allowed those with a “hive mind” in, REB had no friction to deal with and thus could enjoy his superiority over them. He could relax and never be challenged. He was the Queen Bee in the hive. Why would he object? The cards he had in his hands were all willing to go in his favor, fall down before their lord and master who was pretending to be the King of Hearts.
These non-formatory students aren’t in the Fellowship of Friends now, because they had skeptical, scientific-oriented, rational minds.
They left behind those who had possession of no such character or qualities as they themselves possessed.
I object to the idea that REB is anything more than a common sociopath with the average sociopath’s ability to manipulate and I object to the notion that he made all his followers into Manchurian candidates, as Ocean Tiger suggest, because he’s just that good at tricking and conning people. No, the followers he has now are just that irrational, naive, and willing.
I have to agree with Joey Virgo, burton is nobody special despite his claims otherwise, although I object to the ambiguous use of the word “non-formatory” and would describe the aforementioned former followers, myself included, as those whom maintained a healthy skepticism and modicum of self-esteem with the good sense to extricate themselves from burton’s delusional system.
Don’t current followers zealously consider themselves “non-formatory”?
IMO, the nefarious “mind control techniques” are simply the rules by which an individual must abide in order to be in the orbit of and pathologically accommodate the grandiosity of a traumatizing narcissist leader or CEO, whether in a cult or any organization.
93. Whalerider
I like your description, and feel that “healthy skepticism” was the word or meaning I was implicitly striving for. “Non-formatory” is only ambiguous if you reject the 4th Way vocabulary and principles, which is understandable and useful for outsiders, but I was speaking in the context of the Fourth Way system where other synonyms don’t exist. “Self-esteem” is a good choice, too but it also is an ambiguous word, depending on which school of psychology and its principles you follow — like Nathaniel Branden’s or Albert Ellis’s, for instance, both of whom disagree completely as to what self-esteem is. Skepticism has been around a long time and has career worth hanging onto. “Good sense” is also a good word choice, but is as well hard to define. Common understanding, common sense, logical thinking are apt synonyms, too, but like deodorant aren’t possessed by the people who need it most.
Current zealous followers are “non-formatory” in comparison to what? In the Fourth Way language, “non-formatory” is no synonym for fanatical, zealous, obsessive, irrational, and naive. And I’m certainly glad not to know what any of them are “thinking” if they think at all.
And I agree with you that the “rules by which an individual must abide in order to be in the orbit of” the Pathological Grand Panjandrum are the same rules an individual must abide by to be in the orbit of a CEO.
The use of the phrase “non-formatory” in the posts above led me to wonder if I had ever read it in Ouspenksy’s book The Fourth Way. These days it is simplicity itself to check. I found a public domain PDF and used Ctrl-F to search for all instances of the word “formatory”. Turns out it is mentioned 73 times, and at no point is the phrase non-formatory used in that particular book. There are frequent use of the similar phrase not formatory though, but as I read some of those entries it seemed to me that Ouspensky did not mean by not formatory, someone who flouts the rules or considers they can ignore them. He has an almost mystical idea in mind, of transcending opposite thinking. Here are some quotes of the dialogue on the topic:
“Q. You said that another of our chief difficulties is formatory thinking. I do not in the
least know how to think not formatorily.
A. Think to the best of your ability and compare results—when your thinking gives
results and when it does not. In that way you will come to a better understanding, at
any rate better than just wondering about it. Definitions will not help you: desire for
definitions is only an excuse. If you find yourself in a very difficult position, you will
think to the best of your ability how to get out of it. Think in the same way.
Q. Before we can think differently, is it necessary to perceive things differently?
A. We cannot perceive differently until we think differently. We have control only of
our thoughts; we have no control over perception. Perception depends particularly on
the state of consciousness. If one awakes for sufficiently long, one can perceive many
things one does not perceive now. It does not depend on desire or decision.
Q. Is all thinking formatory, except when we are trying to self-remember?
A. No, not all, but a great deal of our thinking is formatory. But when we think about
serious things, such as the ideas of this system, we either cannot think at all or our
thinking is not formatory. Formatory thinking is always poor, but for some problems it
is ridiculous. […] Q. You said formatory thinking always concerns itself with opposites;
but how can we know anything other than by opposites?
A. Not always—I said it is one of the characteristics of formatory thinking. And when
we think, we must think about the subject itself, not about its opposite.
Q. But if I am to know about some particular thing, I must know what it is not.
A. Not at all. You can know what one or another thing is without making a catalogue
of what it is not. It is quite a wrong self-accusation to say that you have to use such a
clumsy method of thinking, because in that way you would have to think for two
years about every small thing. You can think about things without opposites—just
about what they are. Formatory thinking is not thinking. Never forget that formatory
thinking can serve many useful purposes, but it is not for thinking. ”
Here is the link to the searchable PDF of the fourth way in case others wish to play with it:
Click to access The-Fourth-Way-by-Ouspensky.pdf
Excellent points.
As I recall, it seemed to me that the closer one moved into burton’s orbit, the more fourth way concepts deviated from their original textbook meaning…“c-influence” being the most glaring example, IMO.
In the outlying centers “formatory thinking”, as evidenced in the quote above, may have been initially applied to a style of uncritical, primarily associative thinking, but as time went on was applied to non-conforming behavior instead.
I remember a center director who had close ties with burton returning from Renaissance and asking followers to celebrate New Years at 5 minutes after midnight, in order to resist being “formatory”.
97. WhaleRider
Thanks. And I was looking for someone else, anyone, to further the perspective I drew, and you did it.
I agree with you that the further one moved into burton’s “orbit” (graphic word choice as it was the first time you used it above), the more fourth way concepts deviated from the original . . . Yes, I have only reports from others, myself never having suffered being in his orbit but once or twice for mere moments in all the six years I was a member, but the reports were clear that there was little Fourth Way talk when in intimate or private conversation with him.
In fact, Fourth way concepts suffered entropy (to stay within the galaxy), became etoliated, and then literally died in the FoF decades ago. It interests me as might a historian to note the exact or near-exact year when “good student” meant “obedient student,” when “theory of man’s possible evolution” deteriorated into belief or “fact” (with parentheses around the word).
Verifying C-influence was the lynch pin for this sociopath’s ability to control others. This was his special seduction to get men into bed with him. He tolerated questioning and rebellion to some extent for maybe 10 or 15 years, but questioning C-influence after 10 or 15 years by older students had to be stopped. He was a one-trick phony with C-influence as his magic act, which allowed him to lure others into sex with him through it. His whole schtick was as a prophet and seer into “higher forces.” Without that, he’d have to buy sex or get a real job!
I do recall “the announcement” when REB the Regrettabelle told the followers that the Fellowship was now a religion, not in a corporatistic sense and a tax base so much as in a systemic change in his purpose and approach for the Fellowship. I don’t remember the exact date of this movement, but I think the inner life and regard towards the Fourth Way collectively changed for the worst as a consequence — or it deviated — but well before this announcement date.
When was the year or time that verification became invalid and obedience or mere acceptance rose up as an adequate substitute for understanding the system? That change in itself seems to explain why so many students weren’t qualified to be Fourth Way students in the first place, weren’t prepared to face what they chose to encounter when they joined, causing confusion among them since the directors were mixing up 4th Way terminology with religious viewpoints so that real understanding had little foundation in which to grow. Everyone had to learn by osmosis and by social prestige relationships with the Regrettabelle the Abuser via conformism.
I was thinking how incredibly advanced, spiritually, are the current Fellowship of Friends followers, both from the point of view of their unsurpassed “level of being,” and also based on their amazing flexibility in regularly altering what they believe in.
This ever-deepening realization was strengthened recently when Robert Burton announced the end to the practice of the “Sequence,” including speaking about it, and finding evidence of it in artwork from previous so-called “Schools.” The reason given for abandoning this spiritual practice, at the core of Burton’s so-called “teaching” since 2005, is that everyone now is at such a high level, that consciousness/light no longer has to be created, or can be created, by a practice such as the “Sequence,” but rather exists eternally, with no beginning or end, “uncreated light,” as Burton is calling it.
I’m not sure how this state of “uncreated light,” now manifesting in virtually every Fellowship member, can be reconciled with the behavior of one of the flock at the post office recently, who was haranguing the postal worker about the absurdity of having to know a zip code before a package could be mailed. But I’m quite sure I would understand if my level of being were not so low.
I’m beginning to think that Burton is wrong about something he has been saying for a few years now, that consciousness exists in only 2 places in the universe: in Paradise, and at Apollo. It might be that consciousness actually exists only at Apollo, since the 30,000 residents of Paradise can raise their “level of being” only by helping others to “escape.” Thus they clearly still exist on the level of “created light” (and, by extension, in Time), whereas Fellowship members no longer have to do any sort of work whatsoever, since they embody “uncreated light” (which, as everyone knows, is out of Time).
So, just as Burton is on the same level as “The Absolute,” having crystallized together (per Mr. Burton), and are on regular visiting terms with each other, so too are members of the Fellowship of Friends at least on the level of the angels in Paradise, but likely higher.
I suppose, given the foregoing, it’s mere child’s play for Fellowsheepers constantly and easily to alter their belief system, based on whatever Burton decides to put into his “reality bubble” that particular month or year. And I must say that this flexibility is both remarkable and admirable. It clearly demonstrates an exceptional level of non-attachment, which, according to Van Morrison, is at the heart of enlightenment.
In a heartbeat, they move from the study of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, to eliminating and even denigrating them; from embracing the “Sequence,” the greatest secret in the history of the Universe, to casting it off like an old coat; to accepting that “effort” can “awaken higher centers,” (i.e. a somewhat silly idea that matter can create spirit, that what is unconscious and limited can produce something conscious and limitless), to rejecting the need for any further “efforts” or studies; from teaching each other the necessity of verifying everything, to preaching that one must never question or doubt anything that Burton says or does.
So, here’s to you, Fellowsheepers, whoever and wherever you are.
98. Insider
Well said. Good satire. It feels like you’ve done your very best to explain the unexplainable, to shed light on the multi-leveled darkness of craven, irrational minds. Power-mongering CEOs value “flexiblity” too.
“COLUMBUS, OH—
Compelled by a power greater than himself to leave his beloved home and tread the path of all–surpassing glory, Sawyer, a 4–year–old Jack Russell Terrier, set off Wednesday on a pilgrimage to that selfsame consecrated site where he once found a whole rotisserie chicken resting by the side of the road. Upon his 45–minute journey, Sawyer faced and overcame great adversity, including a barrage of insistent tugging on the leash held by his faithless owner; various unspeakable yet seductive odors; and the many temptations offered by other neighborhood dogs, yet he remained steadfast in the pursuit of meaty possibilities. Fueled by his simple yet powerful faith and drawn ever onward by visions of the glorious bounty that might very well await him, from humble parcels of abandoned bacon to split–open canned hams to the dream of an entire 3–foot length of abandoned Genoa salami, Sawyer marched on, the light of his faith undimmed. Upon his arrival at the divine location, in line with canine eschatology, Sawyer bowed his head, bent his keen nose to his task, and began to circle and criss–cross the area in hopes of a sign. At press time, it was confirmed that Sawyer’s owners had unsuccessfully attempted to prevent him from consuming the remains of a week–old roast beef sandwich and have rushed him to an emergency animal clinic.”
I lifted this from “The Onion” of today, but substitute the name of any of the 1530 or so True Believers residing in Oregon House and around the world, and it describes their spiritual circumstances, past and present, perfectly. Or rather did, up to a month ago. Now it seems that on top of the ‘week–old roast beef sandwich’, Burton has gifted each of his followers an actual ‘3–foot length of abandoned Genoa salami’, which they have duly gorged on, swallowing the sausage whole without regard to the ingredients, rather like a python. Now in their post–prandial stupor, they dream they are angels basking in glory. And some of we bloggers (assuming we are playing the part of the ‘Sawyer’s owners’ in this parody) are still looking fruitlessly looking for a suitable cure.
Insider, thank you for letting us know that the Sequence is now officially abandoned (#84 and 98 above). As you say, it will soon be forgotten that it ever existed. And I’m sure sales of Excedrin and Ibuprofen at near Fellowship of Friends centers around the world have plummeted, now that followers no longer get daily headaches trying to make sense of it all. Even though Burton claimed the basics were apparently passed on through great trials and tribulations from School to School over a period of 150 centuries—hey, easy come, easy go, according to the God Emperor of Oregon House.
This leaves Asaf Braverman, who I gather was mostly responsible for its invention in the first place, free to lay full uncontested claim to the phenomenon and inflict it on his own followers over at BePeriod in due course. One question to observers is, will Burton give up the superstitious numerology and unique interpretation of ‘omens’ so central to his psyche, now they are no longer actually necessary to bind his followers to his fantasy? Yup, you guessed right.
And my second question to you in particular, Insider, is, any more news of the ‘Final, final, final coming of Armageddon’, predicted for some time in 2019?
100. amesgilbert1
It’s difficult to know exactly what Burton said about this “abandoning” of The Sequence. He says different things at different events. Plus people hear what they want to hear, may not have been fully focused at that point in the meeting, misconstrue what they heard from someone else, etc.
Putting it together as best as I can, it seems that Burton still believes that the practice of The Sequence is the greatest gift and secret handed down ever since the Prehistoric School (and their 6 immortal rhino poops). However, this practice is no longer required within the Fellowship, since everyone’s level of consciousness, being described as “uncreated light,” cannot be increased further by any spiritual practice, not even The Sequence.
About Asaf: Yes, he (along with Mihai) claims to have invented The Sequence as a means to engage all the “lower centers” simultaneously. Afterwards, Burton, having been oblivious for 35 years to the hints and omens coming from 44-80 “men who became angels,” finally recognized the magnitude of what Asaf invented and, as they say, “ran with it.”
(It should also be noted that, after Asaf was kicked out of the Fellowship, Burton then began giving Dorian credit for discovering The Sequence. No, Dorian did not correct Burton.)
Finally, “Armageddon 2020” is very much still on the table. And it’s supposed to be really, really, very, very big, affecting (wiping out) much of life on Earth. But not to worry about Burton: Apparently, he is already planning his refuge in the bottling cellar at the winery. And lest we think he will be inconvenienced by living in close quarters with 1500 followers, preparations for the Oct 21, 2018 non-California-falling event made it clear that 98% of the Fellowship membership will not be welcome at the winery or anywhere at Apollo. Good luck suckers; see you in Paradise.
Presumably since all fulling paid up members are cooking on “uncreated light” global armageddon is just the friction required to propel them into the lux aeterna flagrante delicto.
102. John Harmer
The bigger the lie, the more readily it is believed.
All the “conscious” men and women ever “produced” on the Earth, are now assisting the Fellowship (and no one else).
“Consciousness” is only to be found in 2 places in the universe: in “Paradise” and at Apollo.
“The Absolute” periodically visits Robert Burton at Apollo, sometimes in male form, sometimes in female form.
Robert Burton is the highest being ever to walk this planet.
REB may have gotten one prediction right:
A return to an electricity free existence; because PG&E turned power off for several days, recently, due to high fire risk conditions.
Insider, what has FoF done with power off?
104. illnevertell
Do you suppose Burton can live for one day, or even one hour, without electricity? With massive generators mounted on trailers, and a $100,000 storage of diesel, everywhere Burton goes is supplied with power to prepare his meals, vacuum and clean the Galleria, wash those sheets, and, last but not least, keep the TV going so Burton does not miss any episodes of America’s Funniest Home Videos. If you have not yet figured it out, Burton takes care of #1.
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