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Fellowship Of Friends/Living Presence/Pathway To Presence Discussion – Page 125 August 23, 2012

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Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban or a leave of absence from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

To visit the official site of The  Fellowship Of Friends;

http://www.livingpresence.com/

Comments

1. fofblogmoderator - August 23, 2012

INDEX TO THE BLOG

Animam Recro – Fellowship of Friends – a cult for intellectuals, and Fellowship of Friends Discussion
Part 1 through Part 10

http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/

The Fellowship of Friends Discussion – Free speech is a dirty business
Part 11 through Part 33

http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/

Fellowship Of Friends/Living Presence/Pathway To Presence Discussion
Part 34 through Part 124 (current page)

https://fofdiscussion.wordpress.com/

These links will allow you to access every page of this blog from its beginning in 2006.

Read with an open mind and you will find out the truth about Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends.

And if you are a member of the FOF you may find your path to freedom.

2. brucelevy - August 23, 2012

167. Prospective Student

There’s an easy way for you to feel more comfortable about what’s here. Fuck off and start your own blog. Nobody is holding you here, nobody asked you to be here,and no one asked your opinion about how it should be run.

3. nigel - August 23, 2012

…..to all those who are ‘answering’ “I in the Sky”…..

…..got a funny feeling about this…..do any, or all, of you detect a ‘whiff’ of the Girard Haven’s about his ‘intellectual gymnastics’?

I had a fear feature in the FOF (along with naivete and vanity) but here I seem to be transforming the fear into ‘wariness’…..

The timing of “I in the Sky” entering the blog seems to coincide with ‘things going on in the FOF’……………

1) Could Neuschatz be actually accused of a crime and standing trial?

2) Could Girard Haven be suffering another detrimental blow to his health affected by a stroke?

3) Could REB be overcome by an AIDS-related illness?

4) Could REB be ‘on the way out’ deathwise?

Could anyone with ‘inside knowledge’ let us know?…..Nigel.

4. Toby - August 23, 2012

From Golden Veil’s re-posting on the previous page.

Ames Gilbert – September 8, 2011

“I was reading through some of the rest of page 16 of the blog (lots of good stuff there!) and I came across this, from “Life Person”. IMHO it’s a perfect summary, so I’m going to post the whole darn thing instead of just the link.”

-
“After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what most amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to believe.
 Once the emotional charge created by the resurgence of memories that had drifted around for decades dissipated somewhat, and I had for some weeks left off reading the blog, which seemed to perpetuate that charge, and then came back to it, I find myself stunned and incredulous.
 Taking away those things that he has said about himself, and those things that others have said about him, and looking only at the evidence before us, we see a man who, before he announced himself as a Teacher, was most easily described as a loser. Fired from his modest teaching position, kicked out of his brief stint in an abusive cult for the most pedestrian reason–being unable to keep his hands off the other guys–living with his mommy or in his van long past the age when we’d expect a man to have a halfway decent job. A man with modest formal education from a white trash background, with the middle name of Earl. Had never accomplished anything of note. Cannot write, paint, dance, or sing. Oh yes–he could play tennis, at the level of the average high school varsity player.
 A man who has since lived an entirely parasitic existence, having declined to lift a finger on his own behalf since he was thirty, beyond walking, sitting, lifting fork and glass, talking, and having sex; a man whose muscles have atrophied from disuse. A man who cannot be bothered to pay his own bills, or drive his own car, or fix his own faucet. Can you imagine your father, or your neighbor, let alone Socrates, telling people to do manual labor, including labor that benefits only himself, year after year, decade after decade, while he simply shuffles around in thousand-dollar slacks and five hundred-dollar shoes, without ever contributing anything? Jesus was a carpenter. Dante wrote fantastic works of literature. Leonardo painted masterpieces. Others make shoes, grow food. Here’s a man who jots down notes and sayings at the level of a precocious junior high schooler, and gives others instructions in between efforts to satisfy his physical urges. We find the model for this in, say, Henry VIII, or more accurately, a pinheaded, inbred pharaoh.


Here is a man who has not, in at least 37 years, and most likely in his entire life, had an intimate emotional relationship with another man, woman, cat or turtle that would be recognized by anyone as normal, let alone mature.
 Whose “teachings” are almost entirely unoriginal, having been cobbled together, first from the works of Gurdjieff and his disciples, a little later from quotes copied like a lazy freshman from the Harvard Classics, and now from a hodgepodge of sources that does not rise to the level of solid “B Influence” – stuff that, thirty years ago, you wouldn’t have picked out of the trash, like Chariots of the Gods and Linda Goodman’s Sun Signs. He even tried his hand at National Enquirer-style prophecy, and was so spectacularly unsuccessful that he now claims he never meant any of it.


A man who fancies himself an aesthete, of impeccable taste, yet whose taste is classic nouveau riche, reflecting once again the lack of any originality, let alone artistic flair. Everything is copied, taken from others, like the pile of statues in the basement of Charles Foster Kane’s Xanadu. Who considers a Greek temple plopped down in the Sierra foothills very classy, and cannot see that it is pathetic kitsch, like Las Vegas casinos featuring recreations of pyramids and Venice.


In any other circumstance, this man would be considered ridiculous. A buffoon. Laughed at.
 And this, of course, does not address a level of greed and financial manipulation that would seem eye-rollingly incredible in a made-for-TV-movie about a New Age Guru. Who would believe a character who did all the running after cufflinks, the wine-guzzling, the pouring of rich food down his gullet, the endless supply of suits, shirts, shoes, Rolls Royces and Mercedes, watches, paintings, furniture, and on and on and on, while continually demanding more money from his followers, some of whom make extraordinary sacrifices, destroy themselves financially, to keep the man in silk, cashmere, and the umpteenth performance of Giselle. We’d turn it off in disgust, exclaiming that the movie showed an obvious intent to slander all nontraditional religious organizations and make their adherents seem imbecilic. 


And then theres the fellow’s peculiar sexual habits, which also are no laughing matter. His need to have his various orifices continually filled, not by people with whom he shares a deep emotional bond, but by desperate or naive people he has cajoled with pathetic fairy tales, who hide their faces in shame as he grunts and pants before showing them the door and calling in the next one. People who carry the diseases he has passed on to them, and perhaps their partners, for the rest of their lives, along with the burning resentment and humiliation of having allowed themselves to be so callously and pitifully used by someone they trusted.

This sort of behavior is generally accepted everywhere as demonstrating a profound emotional disturbance.
 And none of this even touches on the man’s treatment of others when they’re not coming in his mouth, his disregard of what would be considered decent, principled behavior in any culture, under any ethical or religious creed. His complete lack of genuine interest in the well-being of anyone who does not give him, or procure for him, money or sex, his willingness to act, without regret, as though a person he has known for twenty years or more, a person who has given him everything they have, has never existed the moment the individual stops giving him money or sex.


But, I suppose, none of this precludes his being the Light of the World, the Greatest Being Since Christ, and worthy of the highest lifelong devotion. And why? Because he says he is “conscious.” So that’s what being “conscious” means, does it? How could I have missed it. But some say they have “verified” that he is “conscious.” Oh, that changes everything.
For quite a while everyone on earth was convinced the world was flat.
“But he teaches people to be present.” Indeed. Being present to eating too much, drinking too much, having sex with people who don’t want to have sex with you. Present to enjoying the fruits of others’ labors. Present to the sycophantic bowing and scraping of people without any self-respect or discernment. He teaches, by example, how to be present to treating others like shit.
 How to account for his success? If a person without any useful abilities of his own sat down and decided to develop a way to allow himself to have all the money, sex, food, travel, power, fancy clothes, adulation, and sheer self-indulgent luxury an adolescent could possibly imagine – if a man embarrassed by his own sexuality and humble social status wanted to be treated like a god – what might he come up with?


And why is it that so many people whose wisdom is so much more easily observed, who are truly kind and compassionate, who genuinely value others simply for their inherent humanity, who find delight in simple pleasures and do not need to be continually praised, obeyed, fucked, fed, entertained, clothed, and carted about, who enjoy being useful, who serve others instead of claiming to serve disembodied spirits while leaving a trail of pain in their wake – why is it that such people do not have as many people trying to learn from them? 
Might it be that some people actually want what they see this man has, rather than true wisdom, true compassion?
 Might it be that some people cannot bear the thought that what is so obvious might actually be the simple truth, which would make them gullible fools?”
__

5. WhaleRider - August 23, 2012

Prospective Student:

“is it steamy in here, or is this just a bunch of hot air.
I in the sky – say whatever you want.
From a complete outsiders viewpoint, there’s a lynching going on here.
(you can cast doubt about the FOF –
but we’ll flame you if you doubt us doubters)
oh and by the way, Please, PLEASE _P_L_E_A_S_E_
Stop writing entire short stories as posts.I skip right over them.
Look, i know there’s a lot of pain here,
but this is the second time i have seen this here.
This Blog turns into some sort of catty high school BS.
Grow Up. You lot, are already better and more and informed, than the more ignorant previous poster. (sarcasm goes to all of you)

(and at this point your asking yourself,
should we accuse this new post as being a FOF insider.
and how best can we deconstruct his comment, with douche mastery,
to make a post like this stymied and irrelevant) sheesh”

Welcome, then! Barge right in! Thank you for your feedback.

Be careful, though, the water’s steamy hot!

We keep the temperature at a disinfecting boil.

You are co clever!

You read my mind! Except for the “should” part. How did you learn how to do that? Have you been down this road before?

BTW, we don’t flame here, we incinerate. For saftey’s sake, as humanely as possible.

Most of the memes we handle here are are hazardous and infectious. Google memes, if you need to.

Since apparently you have such a short attention span, I’ll cut to the chase, and P_L_E_A_S_E, no whining…

If you are a complete outsider, as you claim, you’ve only visited twice, how do you know to call yourself a “prospective student”?

BTW, cats were selected as temple guardians for good reason.

6. silentpurr - August 23, 2012

meow!

7. Ames Gilbert - August 23, 2012

Prospective Student (#124-167 or thereabouts),
the guy who started this blog was a ‘prospective student’ himself. He went to the first ‘introductory meeting, and came away with some impressions, which he shared with the world: http://tinyurl.com/2nwp9t
He did his due diligence before making an important decision that might affect the rest of his life. If you really are a ‘Prospective Student’ of the Fellowship of Friends, and are checking things out before you make your decision, you also are doing your due diligence. Good for you. Who cares if you agree or not with the format or style of this blog? What matters is that you look at all sides before you make your decision. If our efforts don’t suit you, suggest constructive improvements (I got the one about lengths of posts), and when you do make up your mind, please tell us as clearly as possible what persuaded you one way or the other.

8. I in the sky - August 23, 2012

WhaleRider

“The Fellowship of Friends is, and always has been, a cult.

Presupposition: cults exist. That’s all.

As I pointed out before, you make the supposition that if cults exist, then so must the opposite of a cult.”

Cults only exist because they are modeling themselves on something genuine that was proven to have value.

By the way, I’ve got this great watch, forget about a Rolex, they are so last year. This is a Paxalar XLD Cosmopolitan, normally sells for $30,000, but you can have it for $19.95, today only.

9. Tempus Fugit - August 23, 2012

1. fofblogmoderator – August 23, 2012

Thanks for including the INDEX TO THE BLOG at the top of the page.

I think it just needs a minor editorial correction on this section:

http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/

Fellowship Of Friends/Living Presence/Pathway To Presence Discussion
Part 34 through Part 124 (current page)

The last line of this section should be made generic by changing the words:

“Part 34 through Part 124 (current page)” to read

“Part 34 through the current page.”

Thanks again for your hard work and wonderful service to all of us.

10. WhaleRider - August 23, 2012

I in the Sky:
I am glad you still have such a gay sense of humor.

“Cults only exist because they are modeling themselves on something genuine that was proven to have value.”

This begs the question, value to whom?

It not hard to understand that the cult leader and the upper hierarchy of his inner circle are the people who profit the most from the exploitation of others in the group.

Pyramid schemes work the same genuine way. That’s why they exist, too.

11. apostate - August 23, 2012

‘prospective student’
my wish for you is that you do your homework, peruse these pages and thereby gain some degree of perspective and discrimination.

i\’m in the sky
now watch it… how much did you pay for the \’watch\’ you attempt to sell?

whalerider from the previous page… imho you put a primary ruse of burtonism into the proverbial \”nutshell\” — pun intended:

”Now by claiming the Fellowship cult is a so-called, “conscious school”, there is the embedded presupposition that consciousness is a quality that can be taught.\”

another \”a priori\” supposition made by the follower(s) of this cult is of (their) his/her own \”unconsciousness.\” admittedly consciousness is a relative state but the presupposition \”I am unconscious\” is a contradiction… if you can say, think or perceive \”I am,\” that already implies consciousness on some level.

you also wrote:
\”IMHO, consciousness and self-awareness are inherent in humans. Rocks are neither conscious nor self-aware.\”

One could imagine that everything is to some degree \”conscious\” and then go even further in postulating that the mineral and animal world (in general) have consciousness too… e.g. consciousness of the rock, consciousness of the animal…etc.

what does \’self- reflection\’ mean… except to the Self itself.

12. Toby - August 23, 2012

“…that is proven to have value…”

There’s that word again. The hallmark of pseudo-science — to simply say that I have proven it is proof enough.

It’s as though because I say it is proven, or because I say that “I have verified it,” all arguments to the contrary are thrown out immediately. This cult tosses around the word “verify” as though simply by saying it, it is evidence that I have indeed verified it. We “verify everything,” so that somehow puts us a step above other cults. At least many other cults, no matter how destructive or criminal they may be, don’t pretend that they have “verified” their strange beliefs.

But this idea (or ironically, this belief) that somehow this cult is different — that it actually “verifies everything” — is one of the most pernicious aspects of Burton’s so-called teachings. It enables people to ignore everything he does, to discount it, to downplay it, simply because they believe this statement: “I have verified that he is conscious.”

And in fact, if you perceive that he is doing wrong, and if you keep with the program, this proves your strength, and that you are more conscious than the rest. Because despite your awareness of his wrong-doing, you have elevated yourself by realizing he is conscious. It’s a twisted and sad logic.

13. Golden Veil - August 23, 2012

The below letter illustrates one of the aforementioned telltale marks of a “cult,” the “abuse of power by a charismatic leader,” in this case, “sexual abuse,” and is of special interest here as it is the personal testimony by a former student of The Fellowship of Friends. I have made a few spacing, punctuation, and grammatical changes for the sake of clarity.

RE: “Allegedly Mr. Burton is a sexual predator who has abused his role as a spitritual teacher to prey upon young men for sex.”

“I joined the Fellowship of Friends in San Francisco, in 1974 at the age of 24. In 1975 I was asked to give up my photography business and move to Mt. Carmel Monastery (Renaissance,
“the Ranch” etc.) as Robert was collecting “talented young artists” for our community. I was in a relationship with a female member, and we joined together. I was eventually living in a tent on the property. Over the first year at the ranch Robert would spend more and more time around me. I can only see it now as being groomed for receptivity. I was often given little insignificant “artistic” tasks to keep me busy and pliant.

Eventually Robert started having me travel with him. It was during one of these trips (I think it was to Palm Springs, Temecula etc.) that I was asked to stay in his hotel room with him and Pe*er Bis*op. I was told to sleep on the floor next to his bed.

Robert’s general inaccessibility to members made being around him appear as a great gift of “higher forces”. We were told, usually by members of his entourage that it was an extreme privilege. In the morning, upon awakening, I noticed that he was in bed with Pe*er (there were two beds). He asked Pe*er to go and do something. Robert then asked me to come into bed with him. At the time he just hugged me. This alone put me into a profound state of confusion. I was in a relationship with a woman and had no desire for what was happening. At one point he reached down and moved my penis as if he was shifting it’s position as if it was uncomfortable for him. I tried to shrug it off. He did this several more times. At this point I got out of bed and resumed the day.

I don’t remember the time space of all the occurrences, but at some point it was “suggested” that I spend some time staying at the Blake Cottage (RB’s home when he was there). Of course, we were guided by RB and the entourage to believe that proximity was everything in this school. Those who were offered proximity were the “inner circle”.
One of the fundamental principles that was stressed in the FOF was that to awaken, one must relinquish one’s will to that of the teacher, as he represented higher forces, or C Influence, and that he knew far more then ourselves what was needed for us to awaken.

During this time in the Blake Cottage, while I was being “courted” there were quite a few other young men staying there. While walking around in a daze because of the “proximity, and the shock of slowly becoming aware of what was coming, I was oblivious that the same thing was happening to several others who were staying there. The residents of the Blake Cottage, as it appears to me now, comprised two groups…those being groomed for sex, and those who did RB’s bidding, including helping facilitate the manipulation of the young men slated for this disaster.

During this time I was given several “special tasks” such as hand washing RB’s cashmere socks, “blocking” them, and sliding them under his bed to dry on a towel. Another “resident” who was more trusted washed his under shorts.

Around this time the residents would sleep on the floor in the living room. One morning while we were sleeping RB came out of his room and tapped me with his foot and made a “come here” gesture with his finger. He led me into his bedroom and closed the door. He indicate to me that he wanted me to be in bed with him. I figured he wanted to hug again so I acquiesced.

At this point he started to fondle my penis. I remember feeling red in the face and confused. He then proceeded to perform oral sex on me. He told me to tap his head three times when I was going to ejaculate so he would know. This type of scenario occurred several times over the next few weeks. It included oral sex (giving and receiving) and some anal sex. I remember basically being numb for a few weeks. I wandered around in a daze thinking “Why is this happening to me”? I was so shocked that I was completely unaware that this was happening to several of the residents at the same time. I have to conclude that they were also in a state of shock. No one discussed it, especially with each other. I was far too ashamed to even discuss it with my girlfriend. At this time in the FOF RB was supposed to be celibate, and homosexual contact was forbidden.

I remember “trying” to tell my girlfriend without saying it. She didn’t understand what I was trying to convey, and I was too afraid to elaborate. I was convinced that I had information that could bring down the FOF…

I remember feigning sleep in the mornings, thinking “no, not me, please” when he would come out in the mornings. It was at this time that I realized that he was choosing boys from a “harem” on most mornings. I felt guilty and miserable about hoping it would be someone else today.

After a few of the events I told him I was in great turmoil and that I didn’t want to do this anymore. He used several arguments to dissuade me, among them: “Higher Forces wished you to do this.” He said that the “turmoil” I was feeling was “necessary” for me to “awaken”, and it was “a great gift from the angels”, of which he “was one”, “It’s the least you can do for your teacher.”, “You are not the only one. I am voracious. I have many students that I share this with.”. etc. These are close to accurate statements that he made. Some of the other lines that were used for “grooming” was “When I die (meaning him- RB), I will be a higher man than Jesus was when he was crucified.” “Higher forces wishes you to allow me to drink from your cup.” (one of his favorite expressions).

I was disgusted with myself for allowing it to happen. I felt shame that I couldn’t describe or share it with anyone. A few of the victims tried telling the hierarchy about what was occurring but they were either told it was not true, or they didn’t want to hear it, or that we couldn’t understand the ways of the angels. I continued to stay at the Blake Cottage for a bit more, but when RB was at the ranch I would stay up at “the lodge” so as to not be a sexual possibility for him. At one point Col*n Lam*ert came to me and said “If you’re going to stay at the Blake Cottage you owe it to Robert to be there when he is.” Col*n was one of RB’s primary enablers and pimps, and to my knowledge, this was his way of not having to have sex with RB.

Eventually I moved up to the lodge on a full time basis and slept under the dinner tables along with the more normal, unexploited members.

At some point RB came to me and asked again for me to be with him, and I told him no. He said he knew what the problem was…that I didn’t want to “receive” him. He thought I would have no objection if it was only him “receiving” me. I remember being incredulous that he arrogantly thought that was the problem… that I didn’t want to “blow” him. I told him that had nothing to do with it. The problem was that it was going on at all. At this point I was grateful to not be around him at all.

This all occurred when no one really knew what was going on, and no one wanted to speak about it, so there were quite a few damaged people walking round including the women that were in relationships with “the boys” that RB selected.

Even just relating this brings back what I felt while it was occurring.

Pursuant to the laws of the State of California and under penalty of perjury I hereby declare the foregoing is true and correct and that this declaration is executed on March 8th, 2008 at xxxxx, xxxxx. ”

I was shown where “the boys sleep” when I visited the Fellowship of Friends headquarters and was invited to visit what was at the time called “Apollo” for an afternoon appointment with Robert Burton. At the time I didn’t get the indulgent smile (I could only describe the footman’ or butler’s smile as such) or the significance of the lighthearted term, “the boys” until finding and reading the Fellowship of Friends – Living Presence Discussion on the internet…

Here is the link to the source of the above letter. The source, by the way, has additional testimonies by former students and a petition. If you feel strongly about the ongoing psychological, spiritual, financial, and legal, etc., activities of The Fellowship of Friends, add your signature, a comment, or your own testimony. ~ If they are reading here, my apologies to the writer of the above letter; for re-opening what must be a deep psychic wound. ~

And, to I in the Sky, will you please pass me a marshmallow?

http://www.petitiononline.com/petitions/djindjin/signatures?page=1

14. apostate - August 23, 2012

15. apostate - August 23, 2012

“HELP I’M A ROCK…”
it’s important that those who can speak, speak for those who have no voice..

16. Tim Campion - August 23, 2012

At 42 years of age, The Fellowship of Friends has roughly 1,450 members, about 100 more than it had at 10 years of age. This, despite a “worldwide expansion” of centers and the advent of the internet, which should have greatly facilitated recruitment. Nearly 20% of current members joined in the first decade and, if the cult persists, will likely go to their grave as members.

Since the creation of this blog in 2006, Fellowship membership has declined by a third.

We don’t have the data to draw a direct correlation, but it would be foolish to dismiss the blog as irrelevant.

Robert Burton, Girard Haven, Linda Tulisso, Asaf Braverman, Benjamin Yudin and the rest are merely peddling a product, and it’s a fraud.

Customer reviews are now on-line for the world to see. And it’s not good news for the con men, and women. Their enterprise is bankrupt.

Ames Gilbert commented:

I would add that the 20% True Believers are now probably also the main source of income. There are less than 60 American followers other than those who live at The Farm/Mt Carmel/Renaissance/ Isis/ Apollo¬–again. The majority of these are aging, retired or close to it. Their income and energy must inevitably diminish. The number of members in Western Europe is also dramatically reduced, hence income. Most followers from the rest of the world cannot afford the high payments.

The blog played, and continues to play a part in that, for sure.

Linda Kaplan/Tulisso/Rockwood (and other former names), at times President, Board member, enforcer, editor, collector and inventor of quotations (and many other roles as a chief enabler to Burton), is reliably reported to have said,

The blog is the worst thing that ever happened to the Fellowship.

That is good enough for me!

17. Joseph Nachumovitch - August 23, 2012

The Fellowship is the best thing that ever happened to the blog.

18. brucelevy - August 23, 2012

And Joseph, you’re a weaselly little shit devoid of intelligence or any other trait that indicates some intrinsic value to humanity. You’re perfect for the FOF…the ideal mindless sheep.

19. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 23, 2012

“I in the Sky” – you’re a funny guy.

Is this what you think?
Robert Burton is a conscious being (in the special sense that 99.999% of humanity are not).
Robert Burton has founded a conscious school.
This conscious school will enable members who stick with it to survive the physical death of their bodies.
The rape and exploitation of young men so graphically described in this blog, is compatible with Burton being conscious and his outfit being a conscious school.
Is that what you really think?
You’re a funny guy.

20. Fee fi fo fum - August 24, 2012

19 Shard, don’t expect a direct answer to your question, because you asked specifically about Robert, and I in the Sky said they will only speak in generalities.

Page 124, #169 – I in the Sky: “You are correct, I am speaking in generalities, which I said I would do in one of the first posts. The general often encompasses the specific.”

I in the Sky, fair enough, if you said early on that you’d speak in generalities, then caveat emptor (“buyer beware”). Then having a conversation with you is akin to 2 people monologuing. Responding to questions about a particular person or group with generalities means you are often answering on the wrong scale. And since you persist in doing that here, you avoid the actual topic at hand and deviate the discussion to specious generalities.

21. Prospective Student - August 24, 2012

take a step back.
joe’s comment 17
is the funniest thing currently in this blog – enjoy. 🙂

22. WhaleRider - August 24, 2012

Joseph:
You are a funny guy, too! I guess…

“The Fellowship is the best thing that ever happened to the blog.”

I hope you realize this same style of reasoning could be employed by a sociopathic personality to direct awareness away from his or her victim’s suffering and in a sick way justify his or her criminal behavior.

23. jomopinata - August 24, 2012

Kids, we got a tag team goin’ here!

24. nigel - August 24, 2012

Here’s an idiot, following an idiot…..

“In particular, if he [Robert Earl Burton] knows what he is doing and we don’t, we have no basis for judging or doubting him. Instead, we simply have to trust him, as a child trusts his parents, or dog trusts its master. If he asks us to do things which seem to have no connection to awakening–or even to be ‘wrong’–we have no choice but to do them anyway.” Girard Haven, Creating a Soul, page 576

25. jomopinata - August 24, 2012

The blog is a conversation around a campfire. The campfire is our collective experiences in the fellowship. The blog also reminds me of Act 3 in Thornton Wilder’s Our Town, where the townspeople in the graveyard reminisce about the lives they shared.

26. TARDIS - August 24, 2012

The true colors of these posters are showing through. To them, the truth about Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends is merely a joke. They evade and ignore and try to distract. But I have faith that people are smart enough to see through all of their nonsense and read the commentary that has significance, both on this page and the previous one. There is plenty of good reading here, and not one of their posts can erase any of it.

27. Wouldnt You Like To Know - August 24, 2012

25. jomopinata:

‘The blog is a conversation around a campfire. The campfire is our collective experiences in the fellowship. The blog also reminds me of Act 3 in Thornton Wilder’s Our Town, where the townspeople in the graveyard reminisce about the lives they shared.’

Emily’s visit, from the graveyard, among the living in the past, shortly after finding herself dead. Disembodied, she sees her younger self in various scenes of her life from the spirit world viewpoint.:

‘I can’t. I can’t go on. It goes so fast. We don’t have time to look at one another. I didn’t realize. So all that was going on and we never noticed. Take me back – up the hill – to my grave. But first: Wait! One more look. Good-by, Good-by, world. Good-by Grover’s Corners. . .Mama and Papa. Good-by to clocks ticking. . .and Mama’s sunflowers. And food and coffee. And new ironed dresses and hot baths. . .and sleeping and waking up. Oh, earth, you’re too wonderful for anybody to realize you. . . .Do human beings ever realize life while they live it? – Every, every minute? . . .I’m ready to go back. . .I should have listened to you. That’s all human beings are! Just blind people.

Our Town (1938)
Thornton Wilder 1897 – 1975
American author and playwright

‘You know as well as I do that the dead
don’t stay interested in us living people for very long.
Gradually, gradually, they loose hold of the earth. . .
and the ambitions they had. . .
and the pleasures they had. . .
and the things they suffered. . .
and the people they loved.
They get weaned away from the earth –
that’s the way I put it, – weaned away.’

28. Wouldnt You Like To Know - August 24, 2012

‘That’s what it was to be alive. To move about in a cloud of ignorance; to go up and down trampling on the feelings of those. . . of those about you. To spend and waste time as though you had a million years. To be always at the mercy of one self-centered passion, or another. Now you know – that’s the happy existence you wanted to go back to. Ignorance and blindness.’
Our Town
Thornton Wilder

29. brucelevy - August 24, 2012

23. jomopinata – August 24, 2012

Kids, we got a tag team goin’ here!

On the other hand, it could be two young, pretty Eastern European boys with the emotional age of twelve who don’t mind getting fucked in the ass for a few of RB’s hand-me-down trinkets.

30. Tim Campion - August 24, 2012

Joseph just might be right. There hasn’t been this much activity on the blog since early February. Joseph, “I in the sky”, “Prospective Student”, and “Someone” – why don’t you invite your friends? We can always order more marshmallows.

31. nigel - August 24, 2012

Here’s a load of convoluted crap…..Nigel.

Jan 26, 2003:
[To a student traveling with Robert for the first time] “You will start to alter your essence. You will eat things that you did not grow up eating. Everybody does it: the Japanese learn to eat Italian food; the Chinese learn to eat French food. You will also gain more experience with wine. You own a vineyard now, so you want to educate your essence in wine and move towards a Mediterranean aesthetic.”

32. I in the sky - August 24, 2012

Fee fi fo fum – 20

“I in the Sky, fair enough, if you said early on that you’d speak in generalities, then caveat emptor (“buyer beware”). Then having a conversation with you is akin to 2 people monologuing. Responding to questions about a particular person or group with generalities means you are often answering on the wrong scale. And since you persist in doing that here, you avoid the actual topic at hand and deviate the discussion to specious generalities.”

First of all there can’t be a legitimate discussion with any of the regular posters about the FoF. The moment anyone says something that suggests in the least bit that the poster is open minded or neutral to the FoF, (never mind supportive) and all discussion (by the definition of discussion) ends. Recently Someone, an ex-member who is not a supporter of the FoF, commented that he had some positive times and valued some of the things he learned there and he was met with a barrage of comments stating why that wasn’t possible.

If I were to make a sensible point in favor of the FoF, a point that could not easily be refuted, people here would simply point to the mounds of testimony and counter that no matter how much apparent sense I was making the testimony overrules it. It doesn’t matter that the testimony is mostly anonymous or that most of it cannot be corroborated or vetted. It doesn’t matter that it often mentions events from as far back as the early 70’s and it doesn’t matter that the testimony issued forth from individuals who had been asked to leave, or had left angry, or disillusioned in some manner. It doesn’t matter if the testimony contradicts larger laws of human behavior, it will always win out.

Mainly because this blog is a closed shop and if nothing else people will simply shout you down and hope to drown out your words with a tsunami of personal attacks. I’ve intentionally not mentioned the FoF and people are still chomping at the bit to unload the moment I’m “outed.”

If you can find a legitimate discussion on the blog between a supporter and ex member that did not result in an avalanche of mockings, dismissals or attacks on one’s sanity or mental state or with being labeled as a sociopath, please post the discussion on this page. Part of the reasons against a discussion is that at any given time there are 20 or so ex members for every supporter or “non opponet” for lack of a better term. And the ex members take great pleasure in taking turns in shooting down the intruder.

What works better for me is to comment when I encounter what I feel is an inconsistency or contradiction of thought, or a misconception or simply a flawed logic and keep it general. As I mentioned earlier the FoF doesn’t exist in a vacuum and much can be mentioned, even discussed, in a wider context that fits perfectly with what people are saying about the FoF.

Feel free to take part in my musings or to counter by pointing to the mounds of testimony that are posted and re-posted and let it go at that. I’m not defending anyone or any organization, nor am I against anyone here. I have nothing at stake here to be honest with you. It doesn’t matter to me if the blog would fade away next week or go on another 6 years.

33. I in the sky - August 24, 2012

Tim – 30

“Joseph just might be right. There hasn’t been this much activity on the blog since early February. Joseph, “I in the sky”, “Prospective Student”, and “Someone” – why don’t you invite your friends? We can always order more marshmallows.”

I’ll have mine from an unopened container if you don’t mind.

34. blog boy - August 24, 2012

I was a member of the FOF for 13 years and left the “organization” about 5 years ago after discovering this blog. I was on the fence for about 3 months prior to leaving because I tried to justify all the contradictions by telling myself that even Schools had crimes – a common conception amongst many members I knew and credited to the logic of Rodney Collin.

I think everyone who has posted here that was a member for more than a year or two had moments while in the FOF that made them feel/think that they were enjoying and profiting from their experiences. I know I did. That’s what kept me on the fence. I felt I had to weigh the entire experience and see if leaving was the right choice.

The problem with staying in the FOF is there is no way to be an active member without actively or tacitly supporting the system of questionable behavior that occurs on a daily basis.

That Burton has had sex with hundreds of his followers is my business. I know what it’s like to have sex with partners that need to be convinced to partake and I know that it’s not an honest relationship. People’s sexual habits and desires are rarely spoken about in general ….much too taboo, but this aspect of a person cannot be dismissed. It’s a big part of who they are and what motivates them.

Burton being the head of the FOF is in a huge position of power and to have sex with your followers who are heterosexual and are only “consenting” because the “teacher” can be trusted is quite dishonest.

I remember having lunch with Renato C. a couple of years before he died and I was saying something to the effect of what an amazing school Robert had put together and Renato looked at me and said; “Robert is just a big fag”. It was quite startling and I didn’t know what to say and Renato just repeated his statement; Robert is just a big fag.

It seems that Burton was “lucky” towards the beginning of the FOF and attracted some interesting and qualified people to help him build up and shape the organization. Left to his own designs I have a feeling the FOF would have been over long ago.

35. Golden Veil - August 24, 2012

I in the Sky, I really don’t want to be dismissive at all, but so far you have ignored my questions… Here’s another: Why would you want to be supportive of a ship helmed by a narcissistic sociopathic rapist?

The thing is, no matter how many nice people we met, skills we learned (if our backs were not broken by overwork in manual labor), artistic, pseudo-philosophical, culinary, or cultural discoveries we made, the foundation of “The School” ~ its faux Fourth Way teachings and its extremely dysfunctional “Teacher,” make any support of The Fellowship of Friends pointless and misguided to many of us… so do not be so surprised at these reactions. I would not expect logical debate from a survivor of sexual abuse, some of whom are surely posting here now. Would you expect, for example, a white supremacist to be able to have engaging, calm discussions with Holocaust survivors about what wonderful comradery existed in the death camps, how groundbreaking in an existential sense one’s stay was, and thus become convinced that the time there was well spent?

But do carry on, if you like, and of course in your own way; you contribute to a learning experience for all. And your asking for an unopened bag of marshmallows is noted and understood, of course, and far beyond the literal sense of the request.

36. Prospective Student - August 24, 2012

someone give bruce a hug. he seems a bit on the angry side.
hands above the ‘waste’ line

37. brucelevy - August 24, 2012

36. Prospective Student

Bite me.

38. TARDIS - August 24, 2012

Students: have a close look at the page. Why are numerous people trying to disrupt things? Is this the actions of a “conscious school”?

Blog boy, right on.

39. Ames Gilbert - August 24, 2012

I in the sky (#125-32 or thereabouts),
if this was a ‘closed shop’, then the moderator would have to be in on it as well. IMHO, both Pavel (the originator of the blog) and Steve have been very even-handed in their moderation. You have a voice, and any member of the Fellowship of Friends is welcome. The blog is ‘one-sided’ because it has been taken as an exercise for present members to not read or participate. The e-mail from Girard Haven regarding that was published here, and Nick Spaulding (gasp!) personally came on the blog to hassle participants. The blog is definitely monitored by high muckety-mucks such as Nick, who give themselves permission to go against the ‘suggestions’, and we know this because Abraham Goldman admitted it, and said that he was one of the watchers. Those ‘suggestions’ have a lot of power, as you well know, they are regarded as tasks by the majority of the laity, so my guess is that most followers have no idea of what goes on in the blog, and would regard the very idea of participating with amazement—and fear. Fear because not only is it being actively monitored, but because the infamous 44 spirits of mostly male dead white Westerners are looking over every member’s shoulder.

Of course I had good times and ‘high states’ when I was in the Fellowship of Friends! I was a member for sixteen years, for goodness’ sake, and I’ve acknowledged this in previous posts. I expect every person who joined, those who left and those who stay, had good times and ‘high states’. The question for me on this blog has always been, “At what price?” and it is one that you steadfastly refuse to answer, which implies to me that your answer is, “At any price”. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I have a huge advantage over you, if you are a follower right now, fighting the good fight against the forces of the damned. The advantage is that I have left. I have my experiences before, during, and after, and can report on all the phases. If you have not left, you can have no idea what I’m talking about, nor will the discoveries I made during the long process of leaving and afterwards mean much to you.

And you have a huge advantage over me. You have a pretty website, designed by talented people, and the copy is masterful in its deception. You have the introductory meetings, led by people like Robert Taylor, a trained actor who has a commanding presence and faultless delivery, as reported by Pavel in the very first post of this blog. You have juicy lures and fabulous settings. You have recruiters in each center specially chosen for their strong beliefs and ready answers to any questions, who are absolutely convincing salesmen and women because of their sincerity. I can only deliver my message (it’s a spiritual and financial fraud) and warnings (stay away!) in the rather less glittering format of this blog. Rather pathetic compared to the inconceivable majesty, power and will of the gods, the only ‘conscious being’ on earth , and possibly you as their agent, but there you are.

40. jomopinata - August 24, 2012

39/Ames

Great post. Thank you.

41. WhaleRider - August 24, 2012

I in the Sky:
“If you can find a legitimate discussion on the blog between a supporter and ex member that did not result in an avalanche of mockings, dismissals or attacks on one’s sanity or mental state or with being labeled as a sociopath, please post the discussion on this page. Part of the reasons against a discussion is that at any given time there are 20 or so ex members for every supporter or “non opponet” for lack of a better term. And the ex members take great pleasure in taking turns in shooting down the intruder.

You know, a virus is an amazing entity. It is undeniably animated, yet it can only replicate itself inside the living cells of an organism.

Once exposed to the elements of air and light for a sufficient amount of time, the virus is extinguished.

The danger with viruses is that they do not display a symbiotic relationship with their host or environment as many useful bacteria do; the virus will eventually destroy its host from the inside and move on through various means of transmission to find another host.

The human body’s immune system responds to viruses and infections in various ways, through raising the body temperature, through inflammation, and with an avalanche of white blood cells and antibodies, which surround the virus and attack it from all sides.

As above, so below, right? Therefore, as below in one cosmos, so above in the next cosmos.

Mr or Ms I in the Sky, if you can grasp the concept I am presenting here, that your mind is infected with a set of toxic viral memes that can cause harmful sociopathic behaviors in the host and community upon which it must prey as evidenced here on this blog, then you may one day come to understand why we seem to come down so heavy on you and “gang up” on you.

You’d be lying to yourself to expect otherwise this particular context.

It’s nothing personal, it is just your toxic ideas we are confronting and containing here. You can be disinfected from them, if you allow yourself to be inoculated with the truth….which means, getting under your skin.

I can understand that you might feel persecuted…as any zealot might feel persecuted for their warped views in which they firmly believe by society at large.

Now I have great respect for viruses, but I really don’t have must empathy for them, nor do I trust them to contain themselves, and nor would I want to enable them.

Viruses have the nasty habit of adapting themselves to exploit weaknesses in the living organisms upon which it preys….Mt Carmel, Renaissance, Apollo, The Fellowship of Friends, Living Presence, Pathway to Presence, etc…get the picture?

42. I in the sky - August 24, 2012

“I in the sky (#125-32 or thereabouts),
if this was a ‘closed shop’, then the moderator would have to be in on it as well.”

You’ve misunderstood me, that’s all. I didn’t mean it’s being manipulated by anyone; it’s naturally a closed shop. It’s an excellent channel of communication for ex members. In a sense it’s your blog, as illustrated by TARDIS #38:

“Why are numerous people trying to disrupt things?”

This is the prevailing attitude – if you are not here to condemn the FoF, you are an intruder.

And it’s become this way quite organically. You can see that in the short span of a month I’ve been posting that I’ve been accused of being a spy/agent for the FoF, or someone here to disrupt / obfuscate. The truth is you and several other regular posters have more at stake here than I do so you will always have reason to populate the blog and of course be on the side of the consensus thought and opinion.

But it is most definitely a closed shop and I have no desire for it to be any different. I wasn’t bemoaning the fact, just pointing it out.

43. I in the sky - August 24, 2012

The quote at the beginning of # 42 was from Ames, #39

44. Toby - August 24, 2012

“This is the prevailing attitude – if you are not here to condemn the FoF, you are an intruder.”

That’s your negative spin on things, but that’s not what is occurring, and it’s not the prevailing attitude. I can’t speak for others, but you’re extremely welcome here as far as I’m concerned. No one is asking you to go away. Some people are asking you to answer direct questions that you have continuously evaded, and others have pointed out that you have avoided addressing the embarrassing and unfavorable topics related to Burton, while changing the subject on numerous occasions. I think the word “disruption” is appropriate if someone joins the campfire, tries to grab all of the attention and make a bunch of noise. Let’s hear your defense for Burton, your reasons for why he should be considered a benevolent leader, and not malevolent. We’d all love to hear your detailed reasons for why we should ignore his numerous abuses, and why we shouldn’t be concerned about it, and why his followers shouldn’t be concerned.

45. I in the sky - August 24, 2012

WhaleRider – 41 (also referencing FFFF #20.)

In a true discussion it’s assumed two people have their own position, perhaps slightly different or profoundly different. The idea of a discussion is to exchange viewpoints and thereby “take on” the other’s views if only for the sake of hearing them out and establishing an atmosphere of openness.

The point of discussion is not to persuade the other from his or her views, nor is it to condemn the other for those views. It is to discuss. In a forum where there is an “audience” this affords the audience to hear other viewpoints from their own. If a person is secure in their own views there should be no reason to take personally or be affronted by another’s views.

Golden Veil offered a justification for the hostility factor on the blog by making a comparison between a white supremacist and a Holocaust survivor, where the holocaust survivor would have no tolerance for the w.s., hence no desire to discuss or hear their views.That may or may not be true, but nevertheless it’s the wrong scale. I get the analogy but no matter how one feels about RB or the FoF, there are no valid or reasonable comparisons between the activities, real or perceived, of the FoF, and those of Nazi Germany’s death camps.

The hostilities and personal affronts are what they are – people who feel they were abused, whether the abuse was real or only perceived – will often become an abuser. And anyone reading this who is open minded and reasonably versed in human behavioral patterns would see the vulgarity, coarseness and lack of compassion for what it is – something understandable, but hardly admirable.

When people are extremely aggressive (displaying verbal abuse) in defending their views it often means they themselves are not totally convinced of their own correctness. And their aggressiveness is really aimed at convincing themselves.

46. Toby - August 24, 2012

Again, your comments are primarily about “the blog.” What about Burton?

Are you more concerned about “vulgarity” on the blog? And less concerned about Burton’s abuse? Are you unconcerned about how this cult has an unhealthy and destructive effect on people’s lives?

If you want to feel “welcome” here, why the need to evade these questions? Why the need to talk about the blog, the blog, the blog? What do you feel about Burton? Why do you follow him? Why would you recommend this organization to a “prospective student”? What makes people wrong in warning others?

47. Ames Gilbert - August 24, 2012

I in the sky (#125-45 or thereabouts),
how can it be a true discussion when you’ve laid so many important topics off limits, and in advance? This discussion is called, “The Fellowship of Friends Discussion”, because that is what it is all about, and the few restrictions are posted at the top of every page. And this is where you can engage in give and take with others interested in that subject matter—if it pleases you. If you want to discuss philosophy generally and avoid specifics, there are tens of thousands of forums out there much more suited to your tastes. If you want to discuss whether spirits external to you exist, and compare notes with others, ditto. So if you feel hemmed in, that’s your choice. If folks don’t care to engage you on your own limited terms, too bad, go find somewhere else to play. Apparently four of these sandboxes called ‘blogs’ are formed every second of every day; there’s certainly room somewhere for you.

Not telling us anything about yourself also limits the discussion. I don’t know if you are a follower or not, male or female, whether you had sex with Burton or if you are one of the wives of those who do or did, when (if) you were with the Fellowship. Whether you just float along and feel that ignoring the negatives insulates you from their effects, or you feel that noble spiritual ends always justify the means. Just about all I know is you’re unhappy with this blog. The subjects I just listed are examples, not mandatory to answer, but give an idea of how I can tell where you’re coming from (context) and address you accordingly—if it pleases me.

IMO, to place all these restrictions on the conversation, and then complain that you’re not getting your preconceived results merely makes you an immature whiner. Whatever, you’re welcome anyway. But, I have to point out that if you continue in the same way, but expect different results, prepare to be disappointed.

48. nigel - August 24, 2012

…..for Whale Rider – from “A.I. (Artificial Intelligence)”, directed by that brilliant man, Steven Spielberg…..more of a brilliant director than Burton ever was, or will be…..

NARRATOR: “That was the everlasting moment he had been waiting for. And the moment had passed, for Monica was sound asleep. More than merely asleep. Should he shake her she would never rouse. So David went to sleep too. And for the first time in his life, he went to that place where dreams are born.”

49. nigel - August 24, 2012

Just browsing…..found this quote from Rodney Collin’s “Theory of Conscious Harmony”…..

AUGUST 27, 1948….. Many strange things may happen on the way of development: some paths that we once believed in turn out to be cul-de-sacs, while others we never paid much attention to disclose very extraordinary possibilities. At this stage there is only one guarantee of safety—and that is the gradual awakening of conscience. Without this, all other efforts are wasted, and esoteric work in the end can only turn to crime.

50. Tim Campion - August 24, 2012

I in the sky,

In this Fellowship of Friends/Living Presence/Pathway to Presence Discussion, your particular concern with form over content is rather amusing. You willingly share with us how (in your opinion, of course) “discussions” should proceed, how blogs should be fair and balanced, that seekers should find a fulfilling experience here, that others should see the wisdom in your logic.

That logic, as practiced here, leads intentionally (your characterization) in one direction, from the specific to the general, and frequently to incorrect and even absurd conclusions. From this we might surmise that beyond generalization ad nauseam you have no defense (for whatever you seem to be defending.) You ask bloggers to ascend to your ethereal level for an abstract discussion (about nothing, really), because this is “what works better for” you. Your obtuseness (I won’t call it lying) prevents you from understanding that you are largely amusing yourself.

The above conclusion can be arrived at merely from your words. It is not necessary to know your loyalties. (Though you do seem curiously disinclined to criticize Fellowship of Friends supporters.) This alone is enough to make one question your participation here.

Many of us have a fairly straightforward objective: expose the many negative (and criminal) aspects of The Fellowship of Friends, so that potential seekers are warned to avoid the cult (yes, cult.)

Seemingly oblivious to this oft-stated goal, you arrive prepared to lecture on logic, rhetoric and semantics. (A valuable lesson perhaps, though I don’t recall anyone requesting such services.)

To what may we attribute the honor of your presence? If indeed you have “no stake” in the discussion, why in the world would you spend so much time and energy with us malcontents? Have you nothing better to do? Why are you interested in this particular blog when you can make similar and equally compelling generalizations on virtually any blog?

Golden Veil offered a justification for the hostility factor on the blog by making a comparison between a white supremacist and a Holocaust survivor, where the holocaust survivor would have no tolerance for the w.s., hence no desire to discuss or hear their views.That may or may not be true, but nevertheless it’s the wrong scale. I get the analogy but no matter how one feels about RB or the FoF, there are no valid or reasonable comparisons between the activities, real or perceived, of the FoF, and those of Nazi Germany’s death camps.

“I”, your gift for generalization seems to fail you here. (We are trying to play by your rules, but they seem change on a whim. Now we have to supply “valid” reasons – to be qualified by you.)

Cult leaders and dictators: there’s no generalization you can make that the exact same pathologies often manifest in both, and with similar consequences? We can see who is holding the scale “I”. Pure obfuscation.

51. nigel - August 24, 2012

“I exist as I am, that is enough,
If no other in the world be aware I sit content,
And if each and all be aware I sit content.
One world is aware, and by the far the largest to me, and that is myself,
And whether I come to my own today or in ten thousand or ten million years,
I can cheerfully take it now, or with equal cheerfulness, I can wait.”
― Walt Whitman

52. WhaleRider - August 24, 2012

I in the Sky:
“…whether the abuse was real or only perceived…”

Wow. Spoken like a true sociopath.

I think we are beginning to see what is lacking under your skin.

How far do you think the average person would get in a discussion with a true sociopath when pointing out the pain and suffering they have caused others?

Might the truesociopath be evasive?

Might the true sociopathic person claim they are being unfairly persecuted?

Might they be dismissive?

Might they be defensive?

Might the true sociopath attempt to obscure the truth?

Might the true sociopath attempt to blame others, including his or her victims?

Do you think a true sociopath would willingly divulge their agenda?

How successful would a person be if they were to attempt to contain a real sociopath in anything but an aggressive and straight forward manner?

53. brucelevy - August 24, 2012

52. WhaleRider

Exactly my point. You can indulge in “sane conversation” with these asshats until the cows come home. The fact that you even do it shows how easily people, even with an experiential history, can continue to be manipulated by sociopaths. Some people never learn to erect the common sense boundaries that are needed to protect oneself from these pathologies. Really, some of you need to still develop some fucking discrimination, perhaps at the necessary cost of your magnanimity, which is what allowed some of us to stay in the snake pit as long as we did.

54. Ill Never Tell - August 24, 2012

Certain posters here give one the uneasy feeling that is equivalent to Teflon – nothing sticks; makes you feel like you’re going down a greasy skid with nothing to hold on to. All they are doing is having a conversation with themselves inside their heads and making it public. (Or, is that ‘pubic?’

55. jomopinata - August 24, 2012

I for one am not willing to assume that cult defenders are inherently sociopathic, even though Burton is sociopathic and the cult is Burton writ large. I feel (and your mileage may vary) that cult apologists hold the beliefs they hold for very specific reasons that are do not necessarily reflect the truth value of those beliefs, and their tenacious holding to those beliefs doesn’t necessary mean that they are, like sociopaths, beyond reevaluation of their beliefs or beyond redemption. I just think they may be exceptionally well armored. That’s the rationale for my effort, anyway. Is it useless, naive, Quixotic? Maybe.

56. Fee fi fo fum - August 25, 2012

One good thing that’s coming out of the recent blog noise is that it’s getting some of us to articulate, once again, the many things that went wrong with RB and the FF. The ongoing conversation also shows how weak and in effective the the FF apologists’ arguments are.

For example, a question was asked about why “we” keep talking about “the cult,” as though there was a reason “we” needed to justify and rationalize this position. I notice that the usual modus operandi was at work, which was not just a generalization, but also, an appeal to the opposite concept: If there are cults, then surely there exist something that is not a cult. (Duh, let me guess what group you’re talking about.) So once again, there was an effort at diversion, to steer the conversation away from the specific abuses of the FF and by RB.

There is also the attempt to talk about the opposite of whatever X is that “we” are talking about. (If RB’s a “fake” teacher, then the tactic is not to ask for examples for why he’s a fake. Instead, it’s, “so if X is a fake, then it means there are real X’s.”) No, the conversation is about X. It is not about not-X.

So the constant generalization is often accompanied by the attempt to twist the mind away from X by asking about the opposite of X. The opposite of X can be so vast and vague as to be useless, as a topic of conversation.

And then there is often the tactic of a question answering a question, which is a non-answer. It means you’ve let the person turn the tables on the person asking the question, so that you doubt what you meant to ask. Don’t fall for it.

57. Fee fi fo fum - August 25, 2012

My first paragraph above, last sentence, should have said “ineffective” not “in effective.”

58. WhaleRider - August 25, 2012

Bruce:
Just so you and I are clear, my public interaction here with people like I in the Sky or Daily Cardiac or Howard Carter is not necessarily for their benefit or to win them over to my point of view. That would be an exercise in futility with a person who is delusional.

The teflon we feel is the incorrigibility of their delusions.

It is to help them air their ideas and and closely held beliefs so others can experience their ideation first hand at a safe distance, without physical contact or without having to pay them anything.

IMHO, experiencing in writing the lacuna of their conscience and lack of empathy in the daylight and fresh air will help save lives.

These people may never post; they will simply move to other pursuits.

This is no joke, a meme is a mental virus. It can cause mental illness, just like a virus can cause physical illness. It can be passed on to others just as sociopathic behavior can be taught to others.

Our experience and evidence suggests that the FOF meme can harm a person’s conscience and impair their ability to think critically and rationally for themselves.

If you think about it, the FOF meme is usually transmitted verbally in social interactions, most of which are not recorded, and through contact with burton and older followers.

This makes Tim C’s work extremely valuable, and our work here valuable as well. We can place an appropriate frame around their glossy presentation.

I think we have done a great job exposing FOF recruiting techniques along with the delusions, suppositions, and superstitions underlying the FOF delusional belief system.

The discussion with I in the Sky has been a great help. Sadly, it is apparent to me that I in the Sky is unable to acknowledge the suffering of others. That doesn’t bode well in terms of I in the Sky’s personal growth.

I can guarantee you there is a method to this madness…it is the milieu of social rehabilitation…and often the healing process isn’t all Kumbaya by the campfire either.

But for some people, it’s the only way that works, and some, for whom nothing works, require containment.

And you are right it takes strong boundaries to be a prison guard or work at psychiatric facility. You have to experience the futility enough times to understand.

59. Golden Veil - August 25, 2012

56. Fee fi fo fum

I agree, a lot of inept rhetoric schmetoric…

60. brucelevy - August 25, 2012

55. jomopinata

I think it’s clear, at least to me, that some of the presently active two or three whack jobs here are immune to what is actually being said. Talking to a sociopath,….they don’t register any cogent arguments about sociopathic behavior. It just slides right past them because they are not capable of recognizing behavior and world view that might pertain to their own pathology..it’s often not even intentional…they don’t have normal capacities . These are the types that thrive in a pathology rich environment like the FOF. Psychologists know this, and they readily state that there is no treatment for it. They just don’t get it. Treating them like any other person is exactly how they wish to be treated. That’s the pitfall of not recognizing severely damaged people. They thrive on the magnanimity. It’s like a culture in a petrie dish, it’s how they grow their sickness. Personally, I won’t deal with them as sane individuals. They are pimples on the ass of humanity. And while not all who have come here to defend the FOF are of this ilk, these, like Daily Cardiac, etc. ARE of this ilk. And it behooves one to recognize them and treat them accordingly, at least for me.

61. Tim Campion - August 25, 2012

Sociopath in disguise?

62. Prospective Student - August 25, 2012

such damning judgment; it’s not a place you should stay inside.
just because we’re not all so dour and dire concerning the spilt ilk.
doesn’t mean we’re incapable of recognizing cult snares and post syndromes

standing on a soap box and spewing words like – magnanimous sociopathetic pimple whack jobs. doesn’t help anyone. not even you.

there is no reason to mobilize, to take cover, to shoot or be shot.
there is no war. only an apparent inner torment
free yourself. you are happy. even if you don’t feel it just yet

63. Golden Veil - August 25, 2012

“free yourself. you are happy. even if you don’t feel it just yet”

Yes, very judgmental.

64. apostate - August 25, 2012

prospective student 62:

“Pablum is a processed cereal for infants originally marketed by the Mead Johnson Company in 1931. The aspect of passivity had already given a negative connotation to metaphorical uses of the word pabulum, and the marketing of Pablum influenced the usage to refer to something bland, mushy, unappetizing, or infantile, and thus (paradoxically) with little worthwhile content.”

naivete’ is a dangerous condition… whether you realize it or not.

65. brucelevy - August 25, 2012

I’m not going to indulge these fucknuckles any longer. Enjoy yourselves.

66. Fee fi fo fum - August 25, 2012

There’s a wide a spectrum in the range of people who are still FF members, in terms of their loyalty to the FF and RB, and their reasons for staying. Personally, I don’t expect the diehard loyalists to engage in an open and honest dialogue, or even engage at all with people who have left the FF. It’s not even about asking them why they feel so loyal to RB and the FF, it’s partly just to ask them why don’t view non-FF members as vibrant human beings with rich and valid lives. Well, the psychology is that they are the Chosen, and everyone else is a Life Person; former FF members are in a special category of Life Person, to be avoided and shunned. I think the atmosphere has let up since the blog and the other website began.

I’ve talked to a few people in the FF who seem to be barely there. The main reason seems to be “for the friendship.” So they make their teaching payments, often with difficulty, in order to continue socializing with their friends who are still in the FF and who also have “the friendships” as one of their primary reasons for staying. It’s almost like holding yourself hostage to a mutual blackmail. It like saying, “Hi, I’ll stay in the FF in order to be friends with you, because I’m afraid to leave. How about you? You’ll stay, too? Oh, good, that means we’ll both stay in the FF and be friends together, even though we, um, turn our face the other way and don’t discuss RB’s behavior even though it bothers the hell out of us. Hey, do you have enough money to pay to attend the meeting next weekend? No? I don’t either, but at least we have each other’s friendship. I need some winter clothes, but don’t even have enough money to pay all of next month’s teaching payment. I heard the next special donation is to pay for a $500 hat for RB. I’m trying to find extra work to make that payment, too.”

Good luck.

67. jomopinata - August 25, 2012

60/Bruce

I appreciate your perspective and am going to think about it for a few days. Maybe you will change my mind.

68. Prospective Student - August 25, 2012

holy frijoles, is it safe to eat pablum with my fucknuckles?
just when i didn’t think anyone else could be clever.
Always an added bonus to the blog –
it is always a good read (truly). such quixotic juxtaposing.
naivete and levity be scorned…

69. Golden Veil - August 25, 2012

~
Somethings just never change… these comments bear re-posting.
They were compiled here by Best of the Blog on July 17, 2010 ~

==========
Brain Police
on August 9, 2007 at 8:05 pm

I’ve often wondered whether RB (or “Arby”) intentionally presents bizarre and incredible “teachings,” not to confuse the logical mind for some evolutionary end, but because, perversely, the more absurd the teaching, the more energy some will exert to justify it. That is, some will stay, not in spite of the crap, but because of it. If he continued to stress the Great Books approach, people might get bored, or buy a set for themselves, or consider that they can get that sort of teaching in a lot of places for a lot less money. But some people will react to a truly ridiculous teaching by telling themselves it MUST mean something really, really important, because there’s no other way to interpret it–except, of course, as gibberish, and people don’t like to feel they’re paying through the nose for gibberish, and so will reject that possibility.

==========
David B.
on August 10, 2007 at 8:54 pm

I think that probably the reason RB instituted the ‘no laughing’ exercise is because laughter, humor, ridicule, satire, joking, kidding around, etc. are very effective ways of puncturing the pomposity and pretense of the Fellowship. Kid Shelleen’s and Bass’s stories illustrate this well.

Reading that series of edicts from RB via Linda, each one increasingly oppressive and creepy, made me so grateful to be out of the humorless hell hole that is the FOF.

==========

And finally…

Skeptical Optimist
on August 14, 2007 at 12:51 am

[Note: He’s responding to another page filled with several dozen sarcastic rebuttals, denials, disagreements, debunking, and scoffing.]

BTW, it was just about a month ago that Ni_k Spa_ldi_g chased Howard Carter, Siddiq and Golb off the blog. Didn’t he say to take a month off?

Of course, other members of the tag team have filled the void, although it looks like “Just Me” may have finished his/her stint, so I guess there will be someone new (assuming all these tags do not, in fact, refer to the same one or two individuals).

Just keeping track over here. Bye for now.

JoelF

===========

Now, isn’t that something!?

70. James Mclemore - August 25, 2012

Prospective Student

You are a sad little character. I think you’ve been here before under a variety of names.

71. TARDIS - August 25, 2012

If you have any interest in joining this “organization” or if you are thinking of leaving it, check out this page and last in detail. Both pages will tell you everything you need to know. Good luck and best wishes.

72. Prospective Student - August 25, 2012

it is interesting that some of us here are;
level headed, non paranoid, and contribute in a productive manner.
and then some of us are, in a fox hole with military helmets,
dialing in the next rpg attack.
it is plain as day for the occasional visitor. (stand back for a sec)
this is one point i have been trying to make.
some of us here have lived in this cave so long,
that there is no other way / perspective.
. – there is only one way –
…”you’re either with us, or against us” period.
but i tell you. there are brethren in your midst, who Are with conviction,
and are sensible, and at the same time are also reasonable and amicable. (although they may not do as much typing)

73. Joseph Nachumovitch - August 25, 2012

ok nutter

74. apostate - August 25, 2012

bruce 65

once again the question arises:

to feed, or not to feed the trolls ?

(the twisted and convoluted logic of this ‘i’m n the sky’ sounds a lot like ‘daly card’ — they’re probably one in the same, or at the very least their minds have been conditioned in similar fashion). changing the thinking of a troll is not the point and attempting to do so will only be an ‘exercise in futility’… but by addressing aspects of troll postings here, one’s own informed perspective will continue to illuminate the “conscious” misdeeds which define this cult….

“enjoy yourselves” ?! i wouldn’t say this is enjoyment, it’s shitty work but some might argue that putting these assholes in their place needs to be done…. ‘place’ being back where they’re from, it’s a place where the sun don’t shine.

thanks to all who post

75. nigel - August 25, 2012

I have always admired Ames Gilbert’s factual recounting of the way things seem to be ‘going on’ with the Fellowship of Friends CULT. Here is an example of where he has tried to ‘unearth’ trickery in the FOF, leading to trying to recruit new ‘students’…..

2. Ames Gilbert – August 30, 2011
Tim (#110-207 or thereabouts),
Both Abdullah Samaha and Peter Morrow are members of the Fellowship of Friends / Pathway to Presence / Living Presence / Being Present.org / Church of Robert Earl Burton organization. Thanks for pointing out a new recruitment tool.
The ‘hook’ for the San Jose group: Practical discussions, tools and tips for accessing the Power of Now and living in Presence. Based on the teaching of Eckhart Tolle, the Fourth Way / Gurdjieff and other mystical tradition (sic).

http://www.meetup.com/The-Power-of-Now-San-Jose/

The ‘hook’ for the Sacramento group: The spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle provides a modern exposition of the ancient 4th Way system taught by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. This group seeks to go beyond Eckhart’s book into the actual day to day practice of being Present. Using the knowledge, methods and practical tools provide by the 4th Way. A good place to start is with the book called The Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution . . . etc, etc.

Penetrating the Power of Now

Rancho Cordova, CA
165 People of the Now

Inspired by Eckhart Tolle, this group seeks to go beyond Eckhart’s book into the actual day to day practice of being Present.One awakens the moment one realizes one is asleep…

Next Meetup

2nd Saturday MINDFULNESS WORKSHOP

Saturday, Sep 13, 2014, 5:30 PM
1 Attending

Check out this Meetup Group →

I joined both groups just now, and posted this message:
This group is founded on a lie of omission. Abdullah Samaha and Peter Morrow will not tell you that they are members of the “Fellowship of Friends” cult, and have formed this group to recruit new members. Other names of this group are/have been: Fellowship of Friends / Pathway to Presence / Living Presence / Being Present.org / Church of Robert Earl Burton. For your own sakes, google these names and find out for yourselves.
The ‘hook’ is Eckhart Tolle; the claim that he is linked in any way to the Fourth Way is a lie. In actual fact, the FoF ‘teaching’ is that ET is ‘B-Influence’, and that ‘C-Influence’ works exclusively with Burton and the Fellowship of Friends; typical cult claims. Burton claims to be a ‘man number 8′ and equal to Christ, and that mankind will be expunged while his followers are left to form a new civilization centered on the property known as Apollo (Oregon House, CA 95962). And, if you are a good-looking male, Burton is likely to ask you for sex.
So, beware!

3. Ames Gilbert – August 31, 2011
Sorry, I misspelled Abdallah, above. The next meeting in Sacramento is Wednesday Aug 31, tomorrow, at 7 p.m. in the North Natomas library (4660 Via Ingoglia, Sacramento). It will be hosted by Alex, probably Alex Ayuli, also a member.
I did change the review a bit (go to Group Reviews) on both sites to include more information within the character limits, and added my e-mail. If any reader wants to add to this, they will have to join the group (takes maybe 5 minutes).

76. Golden Veil - August 25, 2012

This bears re-posting ~

161. quorum – August 7, 2010

A lot of people who never went through the experience are maybe aware that Burton is sexually active with people in the group, and maybe even vaguely aware that he’s had sexual contact with quite a few people. But many of these people still have the illusion that the teacher is — in the lingo of the group — refined and king of hearts and thinks higher thoughts and is benevolent and would never do anything to hurt anyone.

I know it’s in style to believe that most people just won’t change how they think no matter what, and won’t see anything until they’re ready to see it, and nothing you say will matter. I think this attitude is one of the last walls of defense for Burton, though: People don’t say anything about what he’s doing because they don’t think it will matter. I think it matters. Matters a lot. It makes a difference. It wakes people up. It may take some time, but it does. Descriptions from people like X-ray above in 158 & 160 [page 95] — short and concise and to the point… they help people to think.

For the longest time, I had this clear perception that I was living a double life in the FOF… my “school” life, and my real and productive life. These two lives had to meet one day, and I left. Burton also lives a double-life: The life that he presents to people, and the secret life that he is actually living. As more information comes out into the open, these two lives are getting very close to meeting, too.

77. apostate - August 25, 2012

a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain at the expense and damage of another individual. (or in this case, individuals).

78. Golden Veil - August 25, 2012

One former student describes how it felt for her to leave the Fellowship of Friends; she’s not regretful but is still bothered by anxiety dreams (nightmares?) Posted previously on this blog:

SBeMore
on August 5, 2007 at 12:46 am

Some thoughts on leaving the FOF:

At first, there was the intense fear of “going to hell”, of “losing all that I had gained and more”, of being “cut-off from higher influence”. At first it was a visceral reaction, a physical sense of fear, a heightened anxiety. At the symphony I would be terrified that I might see students (I rarely did). However, I gradually noticed that my verifications were still mine, and I found a fresh ability to examine and let go of assumptions I had adopted but were not really verifications. I don’t really use the words “C-influence” or “gods” much any more, but the world is certainly magical, beautiful, and very interesting.

I came to understand that my memories were still mine, and that experiences that I appreciated were still mine. I like to invite friends to dinner, to cook all day for them, to sit long into the night and talk with those I love. This experience does not belong to the FOF. I like to play the violin, to be one of thirty or sixty people making music in an orchestra, to dance intimately in a string quartet. This experience does not belong to the FOF. I like to hear others’ perspectives about me even when we disagree, and I like to be able to mentor, assist, remind others. This experience does not belong to the FOF. I like to work together with others, to set out to accomplish some task together. This experience does not belong to the FOF.

I missed (and miss) my friends terribly. One day I had dozens of close friends, and hundreds of interesting acquaintances, and the next day – all gone (except for my husband who left the FOF several years earlier). I was shunned. One day I had access to pre-arranged social experiences at centers or at The Farm/Renaissance/Apollo, I could travel in Europe and stay with interesting people, and the next day – all gone. It takes more effort to connect socially but when I can, it’s mine.

I had a strong desire to be ordinary. I wanted to let go of trying to be better than others, and I wanted to see other people as living their lives in the best way they know how. I wanted to truly see them and connect with them without assuming I knew what they were about and what mattered to them. In moments of weakness I might find myself trying to look as though I was remembering myself – and of course this act (somewhat removed, intense eye contact, a bit too stiff, smug) is just plain odd to people without FOF conditioning.

I had (and still have) dreams. Almost always I am in a social gathering – a party with students and RB. People are dressed up and milling about. RB calls to me from across the room, or one of the FOF leaders sees me and looks menacingly at me – and all of a sudden I realize that I haven’t made any donations in a long, long time. I am very aware of myself. Sometimes I panic and leave abruptly; sometimes I smile and observe. These anxiety dreams are similar to the old final exam nightmares (I find myself in a classroom with a test on the desk and I realize I forgot to go to class all semester). My husband has them too.

Hope this helps someone out there in blog land.

SBeMore

79. Renald - August 25, 2012

I have not kept up with this discussion for quite a while now but I felt guided to add the following. It is a reply which I sent to an email which I received from a friend living in Oregon House:

” I quote: ” Richard and Judith xxxxx are still in the fof big time. For some reason, the fof is extremely friendly to the public these days. I’m suspicious. Just as they wanted to
keep the public out before, so do the public wants to keep them out. The community meetings in the area here does not like the fof’ers to be in charge of anything here.
So now we see exactly what the public feels about them.
lol ”

What you have written here is very important not only for you and xxxxx but for all who ever were in the fof. for all who are in the fof, and for all who will be in the fof in the future as well as for all of their children and grandchildren. In other words it is important for all of human existence.

Everything in the universe changes and does so consistently. The spiritual world guides us toward what is to come.

The system of thought in the society of today is broken. This is a good thing because this brokenness can become obvious.
Fixing it is our work, yours and mine. Revenge, the belief in an eye for an eye, is antiquated. Its teaching originally was meant to teach us about focusing on what we want, but it was misunderstood. Instead society learned to focus on what we don’t want and this brought about a huge wave of not wanted.

You and I know that the fof is composed of brave intelligent people, always was.
We wanted to awaken to our selves, to source. Robert made it possible for us to meet from wherever we were on the planet.
He knew that we were to start a new society. He knew that consciousness, conscious thought needed to be used in order to propel change.
He did not know how to proceed with this job mostly due to his fears, his doubts. So who is to continue to propel positive energy into the physical world, our world? Are we to continue with the side track of negative energy until we return to spirit, to source?

If the fof members are changing their sick attitude of exclusivety, the old ” To the moon, Alice!” cry, is that not a good thing?
I say welcome them on an individual basis with love and joy. IF this feels good when it is done, that is spirit informing us through our emotions that it is a good and proper step along our way.

The penal system, no pun intended, is counter productive as it must be according to universal law and this is so pretty well all over the world.
The institution of marriage is another example of trying to force a round peg into a square hole. Again the original intent was a noble one but due to negative forces it went into error. It is good that we can be aware of it. Without awareness we are condemning our children to a life of pain and suffering. Gerda, a very inspired friend, was well aware of this. I too on some level but my programming was stronger and took over when I slipped on the path of negativity. Like I was telling you before much of this slipping was due to the excessive use of alcohol which was handed down to me by my father and grandfather as a misguided means to attempt to feel good once again.

The fof was meant to be a school of love. We are still in that school whether we make ” teaching payments” or not, whether we line up for our St. Valentines Day blow jobs or not. Our loving efforts were and are productive because our conscious loving thoughts are contagious in a healthy way.

I send my loving thoughts to all I was privileged to meet during my time at Renaissance and to all I met indirectly through the blog and through the Greater Fellowship site. I am also open to those who exist beyond the scope of my memories. I really mean that. It is a lot more than just a nice thing to say. We were indeed surrounded by angels and still are. I can feel their hugs and kisses and they are far from restricted to the confines of the physical Academy or whatever it is called now.

I hope I haven’t gone too far. Hugs, Renald ”

Well it certainly is not a work of art, my reply that is, but I hope this comment resonates with those who are meant to read it.

80. WhaleRider - August 25, 2012

Prospective Student:

Have you just fallen off the turnip truck?

Given the level of suffering, fear, sexual abuse, financial hardship, fraud, isolation, wasted time and effort, herpes infections, broken families, aborted children, magical thinking, ideas of reference, and delusions that Robert E Burton and his Fellowship of Friends have caused in the majority of people who have been exposed to its toxic effect, it isn’t too hard to understand how it might be in their self-interest and for their own safety as well as ours that this forum continue to be a safe and open environment for ex-followers to express their pent-up feelings of pain, anger, rage, hostility, frustration, disgust, shame, guilt, and moral outrage, however they wish, even in less than amicable fashion.

Don’t you think…my friend with the limited band width…given the lack of gun control in the US?

81. Golden Veil - August 25, 2012

I wonder if the sort of fees (described below) to rub shoulders with Robert Burton are still being charged… does anyone out there know? Posted previously on the blog:

Lust for Life
on August 18, 2007 at 11:40 pm

I could hardly believe this but if you are in the FOF, you can have the privilege of having Robert Burton in your house for breakfast, lunch or dinner, and it will only cost you $4,400…that is over £2,000! How mad is that?!?!?!

From the fof website (if you do not read all of it make sure you get the first line of the last paragraph…it cracks me up!):

“Hosting Events with Robert

Are you interested in helping Robert raise $4,400 for the building projects and creating a wonderfully memorable occasion in your home? If you have been thinking about purchasing an event with Robert in your home, but were wondering what this would involve, let us explain. You can choose to host a breakfast, tea or reception in your home and once you sign up, you will have the full support of Isis specialist octave teams to help design and run the event. Your role will be to recruit your friends to attend the event and help you cover your commitment for the cost.

Our aim is to allow you to enjoy the wonderful states created by hosting Robert in your home, without the burden of worrying about the details of the event. We will provide flowers, food prepared by Galleria chefs, servers, tableware, a photographer and cameraman. The event planning team will meet with you and plan the event in detail, covering:

• Placement of furniture
• Suggestions of which of your own vases or sculptures can be
used and where
• Designating a parking area
• Deciding where guests will enter from
• Deciding where Robert will sit
• Deciding how servers will enter and whether kitchen
screening is required
• Deciding the location of the camera
• Deciding the location for photographs with Robert
• Recommending extra lighting if necessary

The event planning team makes every effort to realize your wishes, whilst also considering Robert. They work very hard to make the event run smoothly so that you can relax and reap many glorious moments of presence from your special event.

As a beautiful reminder of the occasion, you will receive a photo album of pictures from the event and other offerings that recognize you for your generous support.

If you would like to sign up to host an event at your home with Robert, please call the Auction Team at xxxx or e-mail us at xxxx for enquiries.

Payment Details:

Here are some considerations when choosing which type of event you would like to host:

• Breakfast ($4,400) – usually scheduled for Thursday morning -> Robert is quite open to accommodate your needs in terms of the number of guests to share the costs. You can divide the total amount according to the number of seated guests (from 14 total to 28 total) and the standing guests (around 15). It depends more on the size of your dining room. It is also not impossible to turn the living room into the dining area. Many people respond well with smaller events as it has become quite rare in the Galleria.

Breakfast at x’s

• Tea ($4,400) – usually scheduled for Friday afternoon ->
the number of seated guests is often around 20 or 22 including Robert and Asaf. The standing guests vary according to the size of your living room.

Tea at Pyramid Press

• Reception ($4,400) – usually scheduled for Sunday early evening -> the number of guests is often between 44 and 50.

(no Dinner Events available at the present moment)

In order not to put our teacher under financial pressure, we encourage you to gather your friends’ support prior to your commitment at the Auction. The Auction Team is here to help you with this pre-purchasing planning. In terms of the actual money collection from your friends, if you provide the guest list with the price to be charged, the Auction office can help you collect the money at the entrance of the event. In any case, the payment is considered due at the Auction or the event. In a general sense, to commit for an event means that the hosts are willing to cover eventual monetary differences or advance payments for guests that may need time payments. It is mostly quite manageable with a little planning and help from a few close friends. You can also organize as many raffles as needed.”

I earn about £2,000 a month, and people are paying him that to have a meal in their house?! MADNESS!

Love from Lust. x

You can “reap many glorious moments of presence from your special event.” Now who would want to pass up the chance for that?! This b.s. (belief system) is beyond comprehension… but that’s brainwashing / mind control for you… just par for the course!

82. Golden Veil - August 25, 2012

“Old Coyote” ponders the financial records of the Fellowship of Friends and then asks,

“Think the old IRS should check the old dog pen out?

How ’bout how all these various entities hook up and support each other? Ya got yer Fellow Ship, ya got yer Vino-Garden, and ya got yer Academy of Fine Music and Dance Hall.

Folks, ya gotta wonder, huh ?!$!”

and then after posting the address of the IRS, urges:

“$top yer whinin’ ya’ll, and $end in yer $uspician$ and complaint!$!”

Worth re-posting:

57. Old Coyote – November 6, 2009

!$! Account Ability or The Ark will be rocked !$!

Fellowship of Friend$ Inc. was established with the IRS as a Public Charity, 501c3 in 1971. Due to its classification with the IRS as a Church it is not required to file a Form 990, Return of Organization Exempt from Income Tax.

!$! !$!

Friend$ of the Goethe Academy was established with the IRS as a Public Charity in 1992. Each year it files Form 990, Return of Organization Exempt from Income Tax. The IRS requires the exempt returns of public charities to be open for disclosure [previous 3 years] and available for public perusal.

On Form 990 2007 Page 3, Part III in response to the question,
“What is the organization’s primary exempt purpose?” :

“Our mission is to present the finest works of the classical repertoire in opera, music theatre, and dance to audiences in the Sierra Foothills of Northern California”

Friends of the Goethe Academy Form 990 for years 2006, 2007, and Form 990-EZ for the 2008 year may be viewed online at:

http://www.guidestar.org

On the 2008 Form 990-EZ for the Academy the figures for gifts, grants, and contributions are combined with membership fees. Total amount: $ 51,757. The gross receipts from admissions, merchandise sold, or services performed (program service revenue) total amount was $ 114,829.

For the years 2002 – 2007 the Academy filed the more informative Form 990. The public support for the Academy is broken down into three parts: gifts, grants, contributions (GGC) and membership fees (MF), and Program service revenue; gross receipts from admissions, merchandise sold, or services performed (GR)

……………….GGC…………..MF………………GR…….

2007………$ 9,974*……..$ 60,358……….$ 87,828

2006………$ 30,484…….$ 29,994……….$ 206,998

2005………$ 29,994…….$ 63,207……….$ 279,451

2004………$ 51,354…….$ 41,304……….$ 206,855

2003………$ 129,185…..$ 33,938……….$ 202,973

2002………$ 41,872…….$ 11,875……….$ 173,695

The source for the above information, years 2002 -2005, is page 4, Schedule A of the Form 990 filed in 2006 and 2007.

* In 2007 there was no figure filed under gifts, grants, and contributions. The $ 9,974 figure was actually filed under ‘direct public support.’

The total program service revenue, that is gross receipts from admissions, merchandise sold, or services performed for the years 2002 -2008 was $ 1,272,629; pretty good revenue for 12 or so classical concerts and recitals, a few plays, and a ballet or two a year, don’t you think? Program, t-shirt, wine and dessert sales?

See Form 990 2006 Page 3, Part III,
Statement of Program Accomplishments:

Classical Music Concerts: 13 Orchestral and Soloist Events
Total Attendance 3358

Ballet Performances ??? Ballets Total Attendance 7574

Theater Performances 3 Plays
Total Attendance 6570

2006 Program Service Expenses:

Music: $ 41,942

Ballets: $ 21,792

Theater: $ 1,502

!$! !$!

Think the old IRS should check the old dog pen out?

How ’bout how all these various entities hook up and support each other? Ya got yer Fellow Ship, ya got yer Vino-Garden, and ya got yer Academy of Fine Music and Dance Hall.

Folks, ya gotta wonder, huh ?!$!

Old Coyote Know$

!$! !$!

Write the old IR$ at their department that classifies
Exempt Organizations:

IRS-EO-Classification
4910 DAL
1100 Commerce St.
Dallas, TX 75242-1198

$top yer whinin’ ya’ll, and $end in yer $uspician$ and complaint!$!

83. Agent 45 - August 25, 2012

RE: 123/9 Tatyana H. 7/29/2012

Wasn’t she the one who told the story about her daughter being molested? Wasn’t the Fellowship compliicit in covering up the crime? If she rejoined is she stupid or what? It might be construed as child endangerment if her daughter is still in contact and underage. Probably this incident is not an aberration. Maybe Susan G.’s son is an example of how the membership is willing to sacrifice. It’s a shame when kids can’t trust their parents.

84. fofblogmoderator - August 25, 2012

#75 was hung in moderation

85. Ames Gilbert - August 25, 2012

IMHO, the posts by ‘I in the sky’, ‘Prospective Student’ and ‘Joseph Nachumovitch’ stand out for their intellectual poverty, emptiness and general lack of meaning. Here are individuals who come to a blog called, “The Fellowship of Friend Discussion” and have yet to directly address any topic about the Fellowship of Friends; at the same time they expect engagement on their terms. Truly pathetic.

Back to my purpose for being here on the blog . . .
Anyone landing on these pages should note that this blog provides a link to the actual FoF website at the top of every page, so that seekers can compare the respective claims for themselves, whereas the reverse is not the case.

To those doing due diligence, I reiterate:
Hundreds of members of the Fellowship of Friends are thankful that they are followers of Burton. They feel lucky—and special. And so they should. They believe they have been chosen by angels from nearly 7 billion doomed humans now alive to become ‘immortal’ (whatever that means), while the rest will be destroyed shortly (currently December 2012, following failed prophecies, outlined below) in some cataclysm. Now, that’s special!

From these pages, I’ve selected Daily Cardiac as an excellent, hard-working representative of the Fellowship worldview, someone who actually took the time and trouble to answer some points raised here (while studiously avoiding others) by those who ask questions while still members, and of course those that have left. Other reasonably articulate defenders to look out for are those from ‘Fat Boy’, ‘Siddiq’ and ‘Vinnie the Fish’, among others. Thank you again, all of you, for laying out your belief system so directly. Anyone interested in or considering joining the Fellowship who does due diligence will appreciate your efforts, and hopefully see them as they are. Daily Cardiac’s posts, for example #86–73 http://tinyurl.com/9x4k55u could hardly be clearer; they are a catalog of his articles of faith. Readers can follow DC’s many other justifications in the blog pages before and after that example, and decide for themselves.

If anyone who has had no connection to the FoF, but is interested in that organization reads this, I’m writing this for you. And of course, this is just my opinion.

If you want to join a group of people like DC, mostly sincere, nice, well–meaning folks, but whose entire ‘spiritual’ center of gravity is based on faith in the bona fides of their leader, know that in advance—and accept the consequences. Know that many of us (I dare say, probably most) who have ‘been through the mill’ have concluded that the leader, Robert Earl Burton, is a sexual predator, a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and that having sex with large numbers of the heterosexual young men who depend on him for spiritual guidance is his chief occupation, and has been for forty years. Know that if you are a young, even moderately good-looking young heterosexual male, you will most probably end up having sex with him. Know that your fellow followers will approve of this, encourage this, and the less than good-looking ones will envy you (though these are few, Burton’s tastes are very catholic). In other words, in their world–view, this is completely normal and expected. Know that he has no control in this matter, and has never demonstrated will or restraint; far from it, he is enslaved by his desires. Know that his followers excuse and even justify this unprotected ‘supersex’ (as Burton terms it) because he is a ‘conscious being’, and that he cannot possibly contract or pass on sexual diseases because ‘he is an angel in a man’s body’.

Know also that Burton is a life–long misogynist. He has no use for women as women, unless they have money or influence or can provide access to young men. Moreover, he claims that they cannot ‘awaken’ as women in this lifetime. This means that if you are a woman, you will (according to Burton) definitely have to wait for a ‘role in a future lifetime as a man’ (with the sole exception of Elizabeth I, Queen of England, for some reason) to be able to ‘awaken’, whatever that is.

If you happen to be here because you are interested in the Fourth Way, know that, apart from words freely borrowed from the Fourth Way, this cult has no connection with the Fourth Way whatsoever. The Fourth Way terms are bait, pure and simple. There has been no transmission of knowledge or energy from Alex Horn to Robert Burton. Nor was there a transmission from J.G. Bennett to Horn (whose entire experience of the Fourth Way in the direct line was as a three–week drop–in at the end of one of Bennett’s courses in England). Horn had no contact with Rodney Collin, whatever Burton claims or insinuates. The rest came from books or odd meetings with others interested in the Fourth Way. Whatever the level of Horn, Burton failed miserably to fulfill the task given to him, to cease his sexual pursuit of male fellow ‘students’. And, Burton himself is openly proud of the fact that he has never read any work of Gurdjieff. His quotes of Gurdjieff’s words come from his brief encounters with Ouspensky’s books and what he has picked up from his more organized or intellectual followers. He has yet to explain the vast gap between his claim of being a Man number 7.9, or whatever, and the next and only ‘conscious product’ of his organization, the infamous Girard Haven, official hagiographer, Man number 5 point something. Remember the Fourth Way idea that one has to help put someone in one’s place before one can ‘move on’?

As a particular example, the meaning of the word ‘verification’ has been turned on its head. As you inevitably reorient yourself to the Fellowship groupthink (your new friends are so nice, so helpful, so knowledgeable, and you are so eager to learn, to please, to fit in…), you will be persuaded that ‘testing’ hypotheses according to reason and the scientific method is faulty thinking, emanating from your ‘lower self’. Instead the major part of your ‘work’ is to first accept given/revealed articles of faith as true and then strive to find evidence for them (for more, see http://tinyurl.com/bv2prbu). Failing that, you are to ‘observe and record’ and put any doubting thoughts ‘on the back burner’, or, as you become more ‘advanced’, dispense with them altogether because they are generated by your ‘lower self’. When the back burner is full, you will be kept so busy you won’t notice the older thoughts ‘to be worked with later’ permanently falling into oblivion. Know that the many general ‘exercises’ given out by Burton are a miraculous one–size fits all. Any individual attention that each follower may need is farmed out to one or other of the 44 angels, the discorporate remains of (mostly) white, male Europeans who have left a historical record. More than strange, huh? Almost all the personal spiritual exercises given by Dear Teacher are of the “C-Influence wishes you to internally consider me, give up your body for my pleasure’ type. Though, for variety, there are the never–ending requests for more money, gifts, favors of all kinds, or ‘You should marry this person or that’, or ‘Have an abortion’, or ‘Give up your children’.

Know that Burton is probably the most superstitious person you will ever hear of or meet. This ‘conscious being’, having lost his own internal way, relies on external signs of every type, from chance license plate numbers (example at: http://tinyurl.com/cco5372, bottom of page) to a grotesque numerology and symbology, whose significance is supported and ‘researched’ by the members themselves, and as stated above, always seeking ‘proof’ to support the pre–conceptions. One example among literally thousands: Burton interprets the number of rhino poops in prehistoric cave drawings as messages the artists intentionally left for him across hundreds of centuries! Based on this rare sensitivity, Burton continually makes prophecies, whose record of complete failure (including highlights such as the drowning of California in 1998, nuclear Armageddon in 2006, the production of seven ‘conscious beings’, and so on) he petulantly explains in terms such as, “C–Influence has humiliated me”. At the same time, mirabile dictu, Burton claims that every jot and title of existence is preordained, a ‘play written by the angels’. In his universe, he supplies the ‘crazy’ while his followers infer the ‘wisdom’, so all in the narcissistic dance are happy. Oh, and you’ll be glad he has made improvements to the Fourth Way apart from inventing angels whose sole welfare is those who write checks to Burton, and who, according to his claim, are planning the complete destruction of the rest of humanity, while saving members of the Fellowship of Friends “to start a new civilization”. For example, unlike Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Colin, Nicol, or Bennett in whose teachings conscience is as important as, and inseparable from, consciousness, Burton has little use for the former. In fact he claims:

“Conscience is just a collection of I’s. Anyone accumulating too much should leave the school”.

One less thing to worry about, huh? And as strong an indicator as any that he doesn’t have conscience—and hence, consciousness—himself.

If you indeed value the Fourth Way, then before you consider joining the Fellowship of Friends, you owe it to yourself to find out everything you can about them. There is much more in these pages and elsewhere. I know, it is quite an effort to go through them. But the time you invest doing this is miniscule compared to the time you will waste and the harm that may befall you if you join the cult. I’m not claiming you will learn nothing if you join, just that you can achieve better results in far less time elsewhere, without paying the ludicrous price the greedy and literally insatiable Burton demands.

So much for the Fourth Way. How about the Second Way?
If you take a masochistic satisfaction in being told what to do in all areas of your life, have blind trust in authoritarian structures, have faith in revealed truths, and desperately need to cultivate obedience, you’ll certainly be interested in some form of the Second Way. But why join the Fellowship of Friends? Why not just join the Carthusians or some other group with a good record? For a start, they are much quicker and more efficient. You have the possibility of reaching salvation during or at the end of this lifetime. The leaders are subject to some system of accountability for their actions. Not so Burton’s religion. He claims you will need many lifetimes of unremitting toil and devotion to counter your built–in weaknesses and achieve immortality.
Meanwhile, Mr. “Do as I say, not as I do” trusts not to the future, but lives the life of a spoiled potentate right now. He will use your money to live luxuriously. He may use your body for his sexual pleasure. He will travel widely at your expense. He will dress in the finest and most expensive clothing, silken underwear, drink wine worth hundreds of dollars at every meal, be driven in the best cars, travel first class everywhere, and give rich gifts to his lovers—while he favors them—all from your earnings.
And he is completely unaccountable, the few protests are treated as crimes. His followers exist to hang on every word, gratify every whim, and worship him as he claims to be “the brightest light in 2,000 years”. Not so incidentally, he claims he is conveniently ‘beyond Judeo–Christian morality’ (though he has yet to formulate a successor). So, you are to abandon ethics and morality without having a replacement to guide you, other than his whim of the moment.
And if you leave, you are supposedly doomed to something worse than hell, and you will be shunned by all your former friends. Typical childish cult behavior, but none the less powerful blackmail and devastatingly hurtful emotionally (one list of cult characteristics is at: http://tinyurl.com/622x9g)

Why would you want to dive into the fantasy world of this twisted, lying madman, who seems to exist solely for the titillation of the nerve endings in his penis and anus—and for shopping (see post #4, above, or: http://tinyurl.com/8q5gay7)? Rather, go join an order of nuns or monks. If you are interested in experiencing the state popularly known as consciousness, study Zen or become a Buddhist.

Otherwise, stick around back here with the rest of us and try to do the best you can for yourself and your fellow humans with love and integrity, living and enjoying life in all its juicy mess, ups and downs, accepting the need for risks, facing the unknown and unknowable with all the courage you can muster.

P.S.
If you happen to be here because you are interested in the teachings of Eckhart Tolle, know that, apart from words freely borrowed from his books, this cult has no connection with Eckhart Tolle whatsoever. The terms borrowed by the Fellowship of Friends are bait, pure and simple.
Search keywords I have found that the Fellowship of Friends uses as bait in their advertising are:
Self Remembering · Fourth Way · Eckhart Tolle · Spirituality · Meditation · Consciousness · Gurdjieff · Ouspensky · Nisargadatta Maharaj · Presence · Self Realization and Service to Humanity · Self Realization · Byron Katie · Adya · ET · Gangaji · Ruiz . There are probably many others.
Beware!

86. silentpurr - August 25, 2012

A child would be an especially Important Sacrifice to a minotaur.

87. Ill Never Tell - August 25, 2012

‘Burton also lives a double-life: The life that he presents to people, and the secret life that he is actually living. As more information comes out into the open, these two lives are getting very close to meeting, too.’

Typically the older a person gets, and the more compromised their faculties, the less capable they will be at hiding their secret lives and behaviors. So, it is possible, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Burton is not getting any younger.

88. Fee fi fo fum - August 25, 2012

72 Prospective Student

“you’re either with us, or you’re against us” is something we used to say was an example for the formatory apparatus, in prospective students meetings. Ironically, the FF exemplifies this attitude, because once you join, you have supposedly joined “the only conscious school on the planet.” (I know of one longtime member who still believes that. Maybe he needs to get out in the world? He’s been “on salary” too long.)

Speaking of caves (“some of us here have lived in this cave so long”), just about everyone who passed through the FF, or is still in the FF, has heard of Plato and his Allegory of the Caves. (Isn’t Plato on the list of 44?) In the FF, we used that allegory to describe how sleeping machines mistake the shadows on the cave walls for reality. But once out of the cave, we see the light! And the FF gives you the opportunity to see the light! Does it? How do you know, if the FF is all you know?

It is another example of the dilettantism practiced in the FF (just follow the leader) that everyone has heard of Plato, but few may have read him. Plato deserves the reverence the world gives him, including the FF’s reverence. But once again, FF-think lacks a bit of critical thinking. Many decades ago, Plato’s Republic was critiqued as describing a totalitarian society. Totalitarian societies existed in the early-mid 1900s. So before admiring everyone who’s supposed to have been “conscious,” look a little harder and question some of what you’re dished out in the FF.

There are current FF students who are uncomfortable in their knowledge that something is “rotten in the statement of Denmark.” They are aware that Robert’s sexual behavior, in any other circumstance, would be unacceptable. Yet, they accept it. They are aware that the exorbitant teaching payments and special donations befit a Third World dictatorship where the leader guzzles up all of his country’s revenue and leaves his people in abject poverty. (Who cares that the people in those dictatorships have little access to medical services or food or adequate housing? It’s more important that he has the 10th Rolls Royce and 100th silk suit and 1,000th woman.) Yet, FF students accept a similar standard of behavior, every single day. Or is it more likely that they don’t really “accept” it. Instead, they live with it in the uncomfortable way that people do when they know something abusive is going on in their midst, but they don’t know how to leave it.

89. Fee fi fo fum - August 25, 2012

Silentpurr, your reference to Minotaur should inspire people to look up the Minotaur’s birth origins. Not only was he a symbol of devouring who was feared, but he was the product of an “unnatural” desire. Inflicted, of course, by the gods. Yup, those of you in the FF, tell us again how a man having gay sex with hetero young men, by way of coercion, is acceptable.

“Who shall guard the guardians?” It was a question that was entertained in Plato’s Republic, but was actually formulated by the Roman author Juvenal (no, not juvenile), “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”

Indeed, who shall guard the guardians, when there are no checks and balances in the FF?

90. I in the sky - August 25, 2012

Golden Veil,

I do plan on addressing your questions, but in the mean time I have one for you. If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?

Tim Campion – 50

““I”, your gift for generalization seems to fail you here. (We are trying to play by your rules, but they seem change on a whim. Now we have to supply “valid” reasons – to be qualified by you.)”

Would you rather supply invalid reasons?

Toby – 46

“Again, your comments are primarily about “the blog.” What about Burton?

Are you more concerned about “vulgarity” on the blog? And less concerned about Burton’s abuse? Are you unconcerned about how this cult has an unhealthy and destructive effect on people’s lives?

If you want to feel “welcome” here, why the need to evade these questions? Why the need to talk about the blog, the blog, the blog?”

You are evaluating Burton; I am evaluating the blog. Is that not fair?

The blog can dispense all the facts and information but is beyond reproach regarding the questioning or evaluation of the information? The blog considers its information to be 100% rock solid proofs, so it ought to be open to scrutiny of those truths. I intend to comment and ask questions that might shed light on this area.

One of the methods of evaluating if something about a specific person or organization is true is to consider it in light of human behavioral patterns; this is criminal justice 101. Posters here would like to keep the comments strictly about critiquing the FoF because the critiques fall apart when tested in the broader context of typical human behavior.

Hence my question to Golden Veil. But a general question for now to all of you is: Do you think it’s possible for an ex member to obfuscate when responding to my comments or questions, or is it only possible for me to obfuscate in dealing with comments and questions from ex members?

91. WhaleRider - August 25, 2012

I in the sky:
If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?

Gee, why is the Mafia still in business, too?

92. Tim Campion - August 25, 2012

I in the sky,

One of the methods of evaluating if something about a specific person or organization is true is to consider it in light of human behavioral patterns; this is criminal justice 101. Posters here would like to keep the comments strictly about critiquing the FoF because the critiques fall apart when tested in the broader context of typical human behavior.

I have to ask. Are you intentionally obtuse?

The blog exists precisely because Robert Burton and The Fellowship of Friends have been evaluated in the broader context of typical human behavior and have been found to be criminally aberrant, and a threat to its members. That our justice system extends leniency to most religious organizations (however loosely the term is applied) “benefits” your argument, though not necessarily your well-being.

The blog can dispense all the facts and information but is beyond reproach regarding the questioning or evaluation of the information? The blog considers its information to be 100% rock solid proofs, so it ought to be open to scrutiny of those truths. I intend to comment and ask questions that might shed light on this area.

So far, you haven’t shed light on anything. In fact, hyperbolic statements like the above intentionally serve to further obscure matters. But if you ever get around to asking the promised questions, someone (not you “Someone”) will be here to respond.

Perhaps it’s not obvious, but if you aspire to be a prosecutor, eventually you will have to deal with the evidence. But please keep talking, my friend. We appreciate your participation in this “Cult Behavior 101” class.

93. Shard_of_oblivion - August 25, 2012

89 “I in the sky” poses a question:

“If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?”

Um could it be for the same reason Scientology, the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons still thrive?

Guess who seems to know the answer, none other than that old goat George Gurdjieff. Here he is in his characteristically verbose and convoluted style in All and Everything book 1, chapter 14:

“Besides this chief particularity of their common psyche, certain properties in each of them, regardless of where they arise and exist, are completely crystallized and become an integral part of their common presence, properties that exist under the names of ‘egoism,’ ‘self-love,’ ‘vanity,’ ‘pride,’ ‘conceit,’ ‘credulity,’ ‘suggestibility,’ and many others no less abnormal and unbecoming to the essence of any three-brained being whatsoever. Of these abnormal properties the most terrible one for them is ‘suggestibility.’ ”

Does the term Cognitive Dissonance ring any bells?

94. Renald - August 26, 2012

Damn it, I got sucked in! I was curious to find out what exactly had so many responding to ‘ I in the sky ” so vehemently. I am just a plain Jane type of guy and could care less about semantics or etiquette or quoting classics, but this excerpt from #45 above struck a nerve, so to speak.
” The hostilities and personal affronts are what they are – people who feel they were abused, whether the abuse was real or only perceived – will often become an abuser. And anyone reading this who is open minded and reasonably versed in human behavioral patterns would see the vulgarity, coarseness and lack of compassion for what it is – something understandable, but hardly admirable.

When people are extremely aggressive (displaying verbal abuse) in defending their views it often means they themselves are not totally convinced of their own correctness. And their aggressiveness is really aimed at convincing themselves. ”

I am not too sure what point was intended by I in the sky but you got to admit that in these two paragraphs there is a lot of common sense,
more than I am used to seeing on here. This is damn good Ph to plant in and I don’t mean philosophy.

So we have heard that reb was abused by his mother. That, following the above theory, would explain a lot. Yet not everyone who is abused turns to abuse. So what could be the difference? Clearly it is one’s perspective or focus. More than that it is continued focus, at least long enough to form a habit of thought. That is fine and almost not noticeable when that habit is a positive one. But Wo be unto you if the habit is a negative one, one which is frowned upon at the very least by society. As well what we have here in this blog is a venue which facilitates negative focusing. This is sometimes called pushing against. So your man I in the sky is making a point here in his second paragraph which really strikes home and which deserves close scrutiny if not down right introspection. And here all these years I had put it down to gang warfare. Very interesting !
If these two paragraphs were the only ones he had ever bothered to write, imo, it would by far exceed the usefulness of the majority of comments here since day one. You might think that this is excessive, queeny as they say, but I don’t think so. It certainly surpasses the numbers stats or the financial reports or the tax evasion stuff and so on.
I think I better leave it at that with the trust that whosoever the shoe fits will take advantage of that slant and wear it long enough to do some house cleaning.

95. Ames Gilbert - August 26, 2012

I in the sky (#125-90 or thereabouts),
You asked, “If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?”

My opinion, for what it is worth, (but after much serious study) is that Burton is a sociopath, and a narcissist, and suffers from severe mental and sexual disorders including satyriasis. And of course he has also attracted managers who fit in with his style and transmit his authority to the laity. Why would an insane sociopath or those who surround him care one whit about the blog? In the terms of the Fourth Way (the bait that attracted me to the Fellowship of Friends), he matches the description of a hasnamuss of the fourth kind, in the last stages of a descending octave. Whatever, he got some kind of power, and dedicated it to satisfying his ego and his desires.

The fact is, most of the laity who were sensitive to the messages from their consciences left, some 14,000 of them over the 42 years so far. Some of these were affected by the blog. I know this because they told me.
I’d say the rest of the ‘hard¬–core’ True Believers who are left in the FoF who are not sociopaths (people without operating consciences) just manage the enormous cognitive dissonance with the help of practically impregnable buffers.

Where do you fit in?

96. Shard_of_oblivion - August 26, 2012

89 “I in the Sky” poses a rhetorical question.

“If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?”

I found myself wondering how he himself would answer it.

One possibility hinted at by his phrase “If ..is true” is that he believes that it isn’t true. Well not all of it, maybe some is true but bits are exaggerated and as this is a blog we can’t know which bits are true and which are not, so we can dismiss it all.

But actually I suspect he knows in his heart that most of it IS true.

So I wonder if this more radical position is what he would adopt.

Yes the teacher’s machine was implanted with a glaring weakness by the inscrutable gods who guide the FoF from their metaphysical dimension. It gives Burton something to make him humble. But more importantly these puny sleeping humans can have NO IDEA of the scale of the enterprise that Burton is engaged in. It is SO BIG that petty matters like some unwanted sodomy are as nothing. These humans are to the gods as flies to wanton boys. On the scale of eternity and aiming to become a god on mount olympus, not a poor slight struggle, having one’s body be part of the play of Burton is an honour and privilege, for which the victims should be grateful.

Or perhaps he feels that the continued existence of the FoF in spite of the vile calumnies and false accusations aired on the blog are proof positive that the school is indeed blessed by the touch of the highest influence in the world, who would not allow trivial forces such as earthly laws to interfere with their cosmic play. Yeah that’s probably it, it is just another way he verifies C influence.

97. apostate - August 26, 2012

renald 93

the post by renald is timely… it’s an example of the “most terrible,” and abnormal property of suggestibility. swallowing hook, line and sinker, the convoluted arm-chair psychology from ‘pie in the sky,’ comes from gullibility and an inability to think through the statements quoted.

background: anyone following previous pages, knows that renald has (let’s say) ‘a bias’ in a certain direction and this has obviously made him susceptible to certain suggestions. imho this is the result of the FOF brainwash and (still) functioning programming implants.

look, i don’t know from which orifice ‘pie in the sky’ pulled this bit of “wisdom” but i can guess by the smell of it… and what exactly makes this manipulative drivel a “truism” for you renald?

“When people are extremely aggressive (displaying verbal abuse) in defending their views it often means they themselves are not totally convinced of their own correctness. And their aggressiveness is really aimed at convincing themselves. ”

I think there are many “reasons” for aggression – the above formulation is as simplistic as it is narrow-minded… another attempt at manipulating weak minds, by another stinking troll. renald, wake up and consider the obvious for a moment: wouldn’t you agree that a person will display aggression because they are (in fact) thoroughly “convinced” of their own “correctness” (?)

of course a display of aggression and the conviction from which it flows, doesn’t necessarily mean that this person IS “correct” — even though s/he may be convinced she is. regardless of “correctness,” aggression which comes from conviction “is really aimed at convincing” ANOTHER of that “correctness” — n’est pas?

and what of passive aggression renald ?
have you thought about that while doing your own house cleaning?

98. Renald - August 26, 2012

Boing!

99. Agent 45 - August 26, 2012

In lieu of Bruce doing it, I think someone should call a spade a douchebag. Zing!

100. TARDIS - August 26, 2012

Reminder:
http://robertearlburton.blogspot.com/2011/08/abraham-goldman-fellowship-of-friends.html

Party line: Abraham Goldman hung himself due to “instinctive friction.” According to Fellowship explanations, his violent act had nothing do with a growing horror about the cult that he had devoted his life to. And it was only a strange coincidence that his suicide occurred during a special event at the annual Journey Forth by Day fundraising event on the Fellowship of Friends compound. And he did not commit suicide due to painful realizations about the cult leader and his cult. His horrific act left him dangling from the ceiling in his own home for his own family to find him, but it had nothing do with any concern for his son–that he had perhaps unwittingly placed him in harm’s way at the hands of sociopath. Goldman was not desperate, afraid, and filled with inconsolable rage. He was not suffering from pyschological torment. He was having “instinctive friction.” It’s okay, let’s not think about it. Let’s forget and move on.

The Fellowship of Friends is in the business of normalizing the abnormal. A typical conversation, which is a summary of what is occurring on this page with the current tag team:

“That is abnormal”
“No, it’s completely normal. You are abnormal for pointing it out — isn’t this funny. You are so negative.”

The San Diego Union-Tribune/March, 1995
“Charles R., the Fellowship’s former business manager, noted that Burton is known within the group as the Teacher and is revered for having extraordinary knowledge and spirituality. Thus, many members don’t anticipate having sex with him, and feel awkward resisting any sexual interest that he expresses, R. said.

“They don’t see it coming, and when it comes, they don’t know what’s happened,” he said.

Tim Campion: The prescription drug story is an example of normalizing the abnormal. Similar to Goldman, it has the potential of being an extraordinarily negative story to Burton and the Fellowship. My gut feeling (and by the way, we were taught to ignore gut feelings and red flags in the Fellowship of Friends) is that there’s a profound connection with Burton, and with his drug habits. To many observers here, I’m sure that’s obvious. But when the abnormal becomes normalized, even a physician can forget ethics, and forget the law, and people can turn and look away, because the abnormal has become normalized…

101. I in the sky - August 26, 2012

WhaleRider – 90

“Gee, why is the Mafia still in business, too?”

Because in the Mafia lots of people have guns and lot of people make a profit. In the organization described on the blog only one person is making a profit and he doesn’t have a gun.

102. Golden Veil - August 26, 2012

89. I in the sky – August 25, 2012

“Golden Veil,

I do plan on addressing your questions, but in the mean time I have one for you. If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?”

I in the Sky ~

The Fellowship of Friends – Living Presence cult has been perpetuated, of course, by the continued financial support
of its members.

As far as the many social, psychological, sexual, financial,
etc. abuses outlined on this blog… this “esoteric School’s” “conscious” “Teacher” and/or his long time seconds in command, and/or the President of the organization have specifically directed the “Students” to not read The Fellowship
of Friends – Living Presence Discussion blog.

But let’s say some of them do read the blog and still find it acceptable to stay connected…

It’s common knowledge that cults exert their agendas via group coercive influence, and that influence can be especially powerful to people who are recruited at a vulnerable stage in their life and have unmet needs. These people are attracted to instant friendships, daily agendas, and basically, freedom from choice. Of course this is a generalization. Not everyone that is a member of the Fellowship of Friends could be described as such vulnerable types. But, all members experience a slow brainwash; things like interpreting a passing cars license plate for oracular purposes or the idea of conversing with dead artists and philosophers do not seem completely outlandish.

Psychological studies have repeatedly shown that people will do or accept things in a group that they normally wouldn’t alone. As time goes on, the kind of mind control that has become normal and everyday can only be broken by a shock of some kind, or by diminished cult influences; then commonsense can re-emerge. For myself, when I changed Centers, the mind control I experienced lessened enough for me to realize that The Fellowship of Friends was not at all what it claimed to be.
The people I met seemed to fail in too many respects regarding what I had been led to believe was the common aim. There was an atmosphere of hypocrisy and what appeared to be only acting under duress.

I in the Sky, that is the long answer to your question, a question that I have already actually answered in a more terse version,
at the end of one of my previous questions to you… it’s now
your turn, I in the Sky…

160. Golden Veil – August 22, 2012

“I find myself wondering HOW it is that any student [or anyone] reading about the dark side of the Fellowship of Friends, especially the emotional, psychological, financial, and sexual abuse of the very students themselves, is able to repress their conscience and continue to take part in [or support] the organization? There must exist a serious disconnect from all “non-Fellowship” ideas, and a very firm belief in the Fellowship “Authority” ~ a very intense “brainwash” or “mind control.”

Any thoughts about this, I in the Sky?”

103. jomopinata - August 26, 2012

” In the organization described on the blog only one person is making a profit and he doesn’t have a gun.”

Are you fucking kidding me?

104. jomopinata - August 26, 2012

Now, maybe it’s just ignorance. May I suggest you google the following terms: “coercive persuasion” “exploitative persuasion” “thought reform” “sacred science” “mystical manipulation” “doctrine over person” and “masks of authoritarian power”?

105. Agent 45 - August 26, 2012

Join Now, the Fellowship needs your support!
“The one person making a profit doesn’t have a gun!”
It’s all good.

106. apostate - August 26, 2012

Ouspensky defines the Hasnamuss individual: “… he never hesitates to sacrifice people or to create an enormous amount of suffering, just for his own personal ambitions.” 

“The Gurdjieffian term for psychopath is hasnamuss. Gurdjieff also uses the word psychopath but this in the more generic sense of mental aberration.”

more homework for ‘pie in the sky’ / prospective student, renald, etc:

hasnamuss (‘google’ it for a more precise and descriptive definition).

‘google’:

Mask of Sanity by H.M. Cleckly — a ‘seminal’ (no pun intended) work on psychopathology… cleckly found through his research:

“despite the seemingly sincere, intelligent, even charming external presentation, internally the psychopathic person does not have the ability to experience genuine emotions.”

107. apostate - August 26, 2012

“Psychopathic behavior is a fundamentalist behavior: taking fantasies literally and also confusing the literal and the concrete. Now this is just what Fundamentalists support: if your arm offend thee, cut it off. If your nose offend thee, get it straightened.”

ames 94
I’d say the the ‘hard core’ True Believers who are left in the FoF, (the ‘laity’) in general exhibits psychopathic behavior to one degree or another. through their participation and association with the psychopath and his minions who run the show, the laity takes on psychopathic ‘qualities’ — one of which has to do with lack of conscience and all the negative results of this condition. the ‘True Believers’ ARE the fundamentalists described in the paraphrased quote above by James Hillman; because an operational conscience would generate so much cognitive dissonance in the context of the organization, Burtionites, by necessity must sacrifice their conscience in order to survive in that milieu… psychopaths have no conscience, therefore these true believers are psychopathic. The good news is that some may not yet be ‘crystalized’ as evidenced by the slow but steady stream of individuals who find their way out.

admittedly this is a generalization, and as pointed out elsewhere in these pages, some stay but may not really be “true believers” — some stay in the fold because they feel helpless after so many years in captivity, some stay in because of an inculcated fear of ‘the big bad world,’ some stay in because of their friends on the inside, etc… but as you correctly state, anyone who does stay in the fof does so only with the help of very active and ‘practically impregnable buffers.’

108. Ames Gilbert - August 26, 2012

I in the sky,
your first fan (#125-94 or thereabouts)! But you knew you were right all along, hey? I envy C-Influence whispering the truth in your ear, they never did that for me. Obviously knew I was doomed, huh? And straight to the top, your comments “far exceed the usefulness of the majority of comments here since day one. You might think that this is excessive, queeny as they say, but I don’t think so.”
So, don’t be shy, stand up and accept the unstinting applause from a would–be former follower! Perhaps, out of the goodness of your heart, and in the full flush of your magnificent victory, you can use your influence to reduce the re¬–entry fee for Renald, make it easier for him to suck up more wisdom real close up.

And Renald, thanks for the ‘photograph’; haven’t had one of those classic, uncompromising kinds for fifteen years or more, delivered by a no-nonsense pro who goddamn knows he’s right and isn’t afraid to tell it like it is. Just like the good old days, and it gives me sentimental goosebumps all over. Remind me, isn’t the next step to ‘verify’ (just accept that what you’re trying to ‘pull’ over my eyes is both wise and true, then work like the dickens to find supporting evidence, using the patented Girard Haven method)? And now I know that ‘pushing’ is bad for my soul, perhaps you’ll explain the difference between my ‘pushing’, and your ‘pulling’ for your new belief system (well, ‘new’ at least in the sense of pouring new wine in the old bottle)?

BTW, when you say, “This is damn good Ph to plant in and I don’t mean philosophy”, you really found the chink in my armor! Humorous and profound!
Thanks again.

109. Joseph Nachumovitch - August 26, 2012

Anyone who feels that they need the School does need it. An aspect of having outgrown something is knowing that you have outgrown it.

110. Ames Gilbert - August 26, 2012

I in the sky (#125-101 or thereabouts),
I hope all this attention is not too overwhelming. Fame is with you, perhaps fortune is not too far behind!

You quoted Whalrider’s answer to you, “Gee, why is the Mafia still in business, too?” and you answered, “Because in the Mafia lots of people have guns and lot of people make a profit. In the organization described on the blog only one person is making a profit and he doesn’t have a gun.”

Bingo! You’ve got one point absolutely right. First, Burton is indeed the only one making a profit (I estimate $160 million or more over 42 years, your estimates welcome. And all the sex, adulation, possessions, obedience and indulgence that an unaccountable, out-of-control dictator could want).
But, I beg to disagree about the second part. He might not have a physical gun himself (though his guards are armed, so that’s just sophistry on your part), but he certainly has an enormous psychological gun, doesn’t he? He claims that he is the only ‘conscious being’ on the planet (well, maybe there’s a couple of minor blips on the psychic radar screen as a sop to Girard and Asaf), he claims that he is the sole intermediary and interpreter of messages between his followers and C-Influence as they prepare the utter destruction of mankind, he claims that his followers cannot become conscious without him, he claims he works night and day to help them ‘evolve’. He demands that his followers give up their will to him, and he claims that he can speed up the evolution of the better looking male heterosexual followers if they have sex with him. In fact, he claims that C-Influence wants them to have sex with him, that the use of their bodies are a gift from C-Influence to reward him! And, bad things happen to people who defy the will of C-Influence!
Some psychological gun! But a gun is useless without a bullet, and someone to pull the trigger. So, if they don’t give in, they will lose the priceless personal access to their Teacher that they have been normalized to crave, and lose their place in the ‘inner circle’. Some psychological bullet!

So Burton does have all the power of the (only) gun, and his followers play the role of targets. The fruits of every effort they make are forever dedicated to him. His followers are basically helpless spiritual dwarfs compared to the mighty God–Emperor of Oregon House. He likes having all the power and all the answers, and so do his followers, it certainly saves them from thinking for themselves.

I in the sky, if you are the long–term follower you sound like to me, you must have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in ‘teaching payments’ alone over the years, not to mention huge sacrifices in other terms, psychic and physical. And if you’re not, you must know dozens of others who do fit that description. Have you or they got what you came for at the start of your first prospective student meeting? Or have you allowed Burton’s aims to displace your aims in the meantime?

P.S., for new readers, “C-Influence” means, in FoF–speak, 44 angels, the astonishingly powerful spirits of mostly Western white dead males (list mostly appropriated from Bucke’s “Cosmic Consciousness”, plus some Fourth Way luminaries), who are busy preparing the extinction of mankind. This, according to Burton, is presently scheduled for 21st December, 2012—but they keep changing their minds, quote, ‘in order to humiliate him’. These will supposedly save only Burton and his followers to start a new civilization thereafter. Quite the remorseless psychopaths, IMHO, but then they have the ultimate long-term view, being immortal and all that. If you are wondering how Burton interprets messages from the mighty gods, here’s a sample: http://tinyurl.com/cyt4a89

111. Tim Campion - August 26, 2012

It’s fascinating that Robert Earl Burton is largely dismissive of science. It is likely that he never received training in the sciences and scientific method, so his ignorance and distaste for such matters is understandable. However, when one’s God-given mission on Earth is to build an “Ark” that will preserve the essence of our civilization through Armageddon and beyond, you might expect the sciences to represent a broad segment of that endeavor.

Instead, he draws his followers’ attention to the study of ancient ruins and to his personal interpretation of symbols to be found there. This is the Fellowship’s current preoccupation. While, under less dire circumstances, this might be understandable, Armageddon looms just a few months away (or is it a few years away?) With the entire support system upon which he has depended for 42 years about to be expunged, would it not be logical for Burton and his generals to focus on more immediate concerns?

Do you think he takes any of his prophecies seriously? Ask yourself: do you take him seriously?

112. apostate - August 26, 2012

joseph 108
i think there are probably many cases of those who have outgrown the ‘school’ but still remain inside because they don’t know where else to go, or don’t have the wherewithall emotionally, socially, economically, to extricate themselves. speaking personally, for these reasons (and other reasons too), i stayed in for more than a year after the initial realization that i had to leave… and i’m pretty certain i’m not unique in this regard… there are probably those who outgrew the thing years ago, yet still remain, bound by psychological and emotional chains.

113. fofblogmoderator - August 26, 2012

#85 was hung in moderation

114. Fee fi fo fum - August 26, 2012

85 Ames – Great post (the one that was hung in moderation).

112 apostate – Similarly, it took me more than a year to leave, after my first bout of openly questioning the FF and RB. Even then, I was encouraged to stay by a student who cautioned me that if I left and then returned, I’d have to pay a fine. Even if I’d had the money for the exorbitant fine, I would have been stigmatized. In many ways, the FF has found a way to police itself through moral pressure.

115. Tim Campion - August 26, 2012

Ames,

Regarding your post #85,

If these paragraphs were the only ones you had ever bothered to write, it would by far exceed the usefulness of the majority of comments posted here since day one.

Thanks for the effort.

116. Fee fi fo fum - August 26, 2012

103, 104 Jomopinata, I think it was another example of their inability, or refusal, to get the point, while at the same time, planting in readers’ minds an incorrect concept or specious conclusion that contains related words or terms from the original post. (Thus, it sounds good, but on careful examination, is faulty.) In the process of refashioning the original point or question, they try to lead readers away from the point the other person was trying to make.

I refer to:

90 (was 89) I in the sky: “If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?”

91 (was 90) Whale Rider: “Gee, why is the Mafia still in business, too?”

Whale Rider was probably not making a literal point about profit and guns. My own take was that WR was comparing 2 organizations that are corrupt, where the guys running the operations are in it only for themselves and are prepared to ruin or cast aside anyone that stands in their way or that does not benefit them. However, instead of acknowledging the spirit of WR’s comment, I in the sky remarks on a literal aspect of the Mafia (for example, “guns”), and draws a specious comparison,

101 (was 100) I in the sky: “Because in the Mafia lots of people have guns and lot of people make a profit. In the organization described on the blog only one person is making a profit and he doesn’t have a gun.”

————-

Again, the use of seemingly clever wordplay is exhibited in the same post #90. They refer to Tim Campion’s post #50, and hook on to Tim’s use of “valid”:

90 I in the sky says,

“Tim Campion – 50: ““I”, your gift for generalization seems to fail you here. (We are trying to play by your rules, but they seem change on a whim. Now we have to supply “valid” reasons – to be qualified by you.)”

(I in the sky): “Would you rather supply invalid reasons?”

How clever. Valid, invalid. Once again, we have x and not-x. Valid and not valid.

The use of x and not-x makes the person look like they have paid attention to the point being made. But it’s only superficial, because the point is never addressed. When it is, you can be sure that it will be spoken of in generalities.

Also note the use of a question to answer Tim’s question. Again, and again, and again.

The use of a question to answer a question has the double purpose of being an answerless answer, and deflecting the first question so that we’re left to ponder the something different, or doubt the validity of the first question. Again, don’t fall for it.

————–

Renald, of course it’s not about etiquette and the classics. Who gives a shit about good manners or fucking Minotaurs, when the important questions are about the FF and RB’s ongoing craziness? Ames’ #85 above covers the gamut.

117. Fee fi fo fum - August 26, 2012

95 Ames, your use of the word “satyriasis” leads me to convey something I heard recently, which was that one of RB’s former companions from the early days (now an ex-member) was comparing inside news with one of RB’s more current male companions, who also left the FF. The more current man was describing the male “gatherings” as being composed of 6 men, all of whom would have sex at the same time (or god knows what. A daisy chain? A circle jerk?) The older ex-student was astonished, because that wasn’t what happened in his days. The younger ex-student had to clarify that it was now “only” 6 men.

If anyone wants to elaborate on those so-called symposia, or “conversely” (let’s have some x and not-x here), cross-your-heart-and-hope-to-die, dispute those stories, please do.

118. brucelevy - August 26, 2012

I’ve just been informed by the anonymous little birds that I in the Sky is DC. Make sense? So we can just put up the same circular bull shit conversation that previously held the blog in thrall for a couple months (if I recollect correctly).

119. Tim Campion - August 26, 2012

Well, they do have the same avatar. Could that be serendipity?

120. silentpurr - August 26, 2012

Tardis 100, ” and people can turn and look away, because the abnormal has become normalized…”
I remember that particular flavor of Fellowship “separating”.
It’s about getting back to neutral.

121. brucelevy - August 26, 2012

Hey, I also could be wrong. But the same anonymous dick is still anonymous if it is. They’re both cowards just the same.

122. Tim Campion - August 26, 2012

Perhaps we’re supposed to overlook what has been previously stated on the blog, but I found the following post interesting. “rock that boat” wrote on December 9, 2009:

DC must be laughing HER head off!

I just got the inside scoop, DC is Linda T-lliso
And it absolutely makes sense, mercurial, dogmatic,
loves writing, likes to play games…. pretending, BS-ing

Time to let her be folks!

This inside information is very reliable!!!

I think I’ll just record the possibility.

123. Tim Campion - August 26, 2012

Coincidentally, Googling Linda T-lisso, I just happened to come across this. Was someone (not you, “Someone”) speaking of paranoia?

Traveler wrote, March 7, 2007 at 7:21 a.m.:

Who’s afraid of the big bad blog:

Dear Friends:

Thank you for the many supportive responses to our recent message about invasion of our rights of privacy.

At this time, when the most powerful teachings from Influence C are being revealed and shared, there are a number of anonymous people who use the Internet to harass the Teacher, the School and its members.

The people involved in these activities use false names, stolen identities, copyright violations, defamation, and tactics of negativity. Among other instances, Asaf’s name has been misappropriated and used for false e-mails containing vulgar profanities. Yesterday Linda Tulisso’s name and picture were falsely used to cast her and Fellowship Management in a negative, false light and to provide a link for unauthorized access to copyrighted materials on Propylaia. It is currently known that this has now gone beyond students with visible roles, such as Asaf and Linda. It now includes stealing names of other students for use in false cyber communications because of their national origin so as to falsely deceive friends in other countries into thinking that one of their fellow student countrymen, be it from Japan, Russia, etc., is actually sponsoring negative attacks against the Teacher and the School.

As with other recent privacy rights violations, the Fellowship takes these matters seriously and reports all such matters to governmental agencies at State and Federal levels as well as in other countries and the European Community for investigation and prosecution. In recent years, the U.S. government, every State, and country have passed strong criminal laws against cyber tactics of identity theft, false representation, and anonymous annoyances and harassment of private individuals and organizations. Law enforcement agencies can trace anonymous or false messages to its source.

If you wish to help, you may forward to the Fellowship’s office any such e-mails, web pages, blogs, CDs or MP3 files you have received, either directly or indirectly, electronically, or by regular mail. Please include a brief factual description including your name, address where it was received, the date of receipt of the communication, and the source, if known. If you have received communications via mail, we would appreciate your including the envelope and/or packaging when you forward this to the Fellowship’s office.

These laws exist to protect all people in all countries. The people involved in the current harassment have openly stated their intent to violate these laws to destroy the School, to injure students and the Teacher. These invasive tactics are not innocent nor can they remain hidden.

The School and our Teacher and friends have been attacked before but we have become stronger and deeper through the transformation of this friction. It is therefore before us to address these matters with presence and with vigilance.

All students should feel free to discuss any of these matters or concerns with their center directors, regional coordinators, the Council, Fellowship Ministers, and Fellowship management.

Thank you for your help, diligence, and presence.

Kevin Brown
Council Dean

Linda Tulisso
Fellowship President

124. Ames Gilbert - August 27, 2012

So sorry that the URL I gave at the end of post #110 does not presently work. I tested it this morning, it worked fine, but no longer does so. I’ve gone through the TinyURL site and checked, they did their job correctly. The fault appears to be with WordPress. Anyway, the reference was to page 108, post 176.
To save those interested some time searching, here it is again. I particularly enjoyed Burton declaiming, “We saw this license plate when we returned, meaning that it is a clean omen, without imagination.“ Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

I have in my hands a collection of dozens of thoughts from Burton that specifically focus on license plates, sent in by alert readers. All of these are apparently fairly recent, and I thought I’d share a few choice ones. As you can see, he has still not given up on California falling into the sea, and is very big on the Mayan 2012 thing. The present form of meetings/indoctrination/group meme reinforcement seems to be this: an image from the collection assembled by researchers is projected, and a quote, most often by Burton, but sometimes from some other notable in history, is produced (read aloud?). Then Burton adds his insights, interpretations and wisdom while the audience laps it all up. I’m sure more recent escapees can correct me if I’m wrong.
____
“Life’s situation is getting tighter. It does not matter what man is planning – what matters is what Influence C are planning.” * Robert Burton *
Robert’s comment: It is interesting to observe how the oil situation is beginning to cause havoc. Oil is blood for the modern age. I was at the airport in Houston yesterday on my way to San Francisco and they interrupted a television program to announce that oil had gone over $110 a barrel. Today it closed almost three dollars higher. The high oil prices will affect everything. A license plate says “911-MGR” – 9/11 Major. In fact, 9/11 was a true shock that was heard around the world. This is a map indicating recent earthquake activity. It is quite interesting. In the upper left is Japan, where the earthquake and tsunami occurred in March. Beneath it is New Zealand, where the Christchurch earthquake struck a few months ago. In the lower right-hand corner is Chile, which suffered an earthquake in 2010. If you go straight up you reach San Francisco and the west coast of California. It makes a square. California is the likeliest place of all for a cataclysmic disaster.
____
“The only real freedom is freedom from imagination.” * Robert Burton *
Robert’s comment: Of course, there cannot be freedom without presence, can there? This is a license plate we saw in Mexico City saying “777WNH.” It is three ‘sevens.’ “WNH” is the way you would say “winner” in New York. We saw this man at the Chapultepec Castle in Mexico City with a tee-shirt saying “Xscape.” He was walking around us, meaning that we are escaping. This was my room at the Hilton Hotel. It is interesting, because when Leonid checked in they gave us a complimentary upgrade to a suite, which was room 2121. It means card twenty-one for all of us, compliments of Influence C. Influence C do quite a lot with license plates around the world. It is always a lifesaver when a message from Influence C passes by as you are driving.
____
“The Last Judgment is nothing to wish for, but something to watch for.” * Robert Burton *
Robert’s comment: Shakespeare said, “Some must watch, while some must sleep” – life. We are the people who are watching. We saw this interesting license plate saying “239 WWT.” I was born in 1939. It may mean that will I go to 39 – 2039, or that I came to the earth in ’39. We will have to wait to understand it. However, “WWT” refers to World War Three. When we entered the restaurant, we decided to have the attendants clean our car. We saw this license plate when we returned, meaning that it is a clean omen, without imagination.
____
“The sequence channels suffering into presence.” * A student *
Robert’s comment: It is quite profound. We do not suppress suffering – we transform it. Incredibly, a photograph shows a plume of smoke over Apollo during the fire that occurred one week ago. This is a wonderful image of the fire behind the god Mercury. It looks like Influence C leading us through the Last Judgment. During the fire, I found a coin on the top of Mount Apollo. It was minted in 1965, making it forty-four years old. Late last year as I was entering San Diego, a license plate in front of us said “US SAFE” – meaning perhaps that we will be safe from hydrogen warfare. Yesterday I put a new license plate on my van saying “12 DEC 21,” referring to December 21, 2012, the date given on the Mayan calendar as the end of the fifth cycle. In all the Mayan world only one object gives this date.
____
“The noble pledge to produce presence is the highest resolve man can aspire to.” * Robert Burton *
Robert’s comment: Shakespeare called this the “noble pledge” to produce conscious nobility. The royal couple will be married in England next week, but it is all outward show. There is no nobility without presence, only an imitation of nobility. I am not judging, merely observing. Geraldine Reid found this license plate in Grass Valley saying “2BFLYN.” It is a Mercedes with the three-Be logo. This is the Rucellai Madonna by Duccio di Buoninsegna in the Uffizi, Florence (ca. 1285). Here we see six angels, three on either side. Around the edge of the frame are thirty medallions of the saints – the thirty great work ‘I’s. The Christ child is making the noble pledge with his hand. He has red hair for combustion. Mary has four fingers over her stomach, controlling the lower self.

125. Agent 45 - August 27, 2012

Statistically 3% of the population are psychopaths.
3% x (1450 members) = 44.5 psychopaths. Cosmic, huh?
Robert, Asaf, Linda, Gerard, John B., Kevin B., Lydia & Kenneth, Nicholas, Name that Creep. Feel free to discuss your concerns. Good Fucking Luck.

126. brucelevy - August 27, 2012

Well, gee whiz, maybe someone should write to RB and let “her” know someone (not you someone) is back on the blog defending the FOF. Maybe she’ll get a stern talking to. LT is certainly vain enough to take it upon herself to break a “request” to save the FOF.

127. Agent 45 - August 27, 2012

Correction 3% of 1450 = 43.5. Close enough? It’s only half a taco short of the full enchilada.

128. Tim Campion - August 27, 2012

Ames,

Long before there was texting, Robert Burton disciples were having accidents while trying to decipher license plates.

129. Shard_of_oblivion - August 27, 2012

Hang on a second, isn’t it a kind of agreement that we do not make an attempt to uncover the identity of anonymous posters on the blog?

Shouldn’t we offer that courtesy to “I in the sky”?

Of course this doesn’t alter the fact that I strongly disagree with “I” about almost everything of importance regarding the FoF.

130. brucelevy - August 27, 2012

All I see are suppositions. We don’t know who is who. I know Linda is an vainglorious asshole. That’s nothing that anyone who knew her didn’t know.

131. James Mclemore - August 27, 2012

124. Ames Gilbert

Incredible!!!

“The only real freedom is freedom from imagination.” * Robert Burton

Although he has no idea what he is talking about, it is still interesting that he said it, as he then slides even more deeply into his own demented imagination. Unbelievable. I especially liked this one……
” Geraldine Reid found this license plate in Grass Valley saying “2BFLYN.” It is a Mercedes with the three-Be logo. This is the Rucellai Madonna by Duccio di Buoninsegna in the Uffizi, Florence (ca. 1285). Here we see six angels, three on either side. Around the edge of the frame are thirty medallions of the saints – the thirty great work ‘I’s. The Christ child is making the noble pledge with his hand. He has red hair for combustion. Mary has four fingers over her stomach, controlling the lower self.”

They even have people on the lookout for secret messages, who report back!! They even have license plates that they have to wait until more time passes before they can understand its full significance.

Besides being a Sociopath and having Narcissistic Personality Disorder, could he be Schizophrenic to boot? I remember soon after joining in 1974 being told about Union 76 gas stations which evidently only came into being in order to announce to Burton his coming crystallization. And I stayed for another 5 years!!!???

132. Tim Campion - August 27, 2012

Shard,

I agree that “rock that boat” probably crossed a line, and should be sanctioned.

133. I in the sky - August 27, 2012

Apostate – 96

“Look, i don’t know from which orifice ‘pie in the sky’ pulled this bit of “wisdom” but i can guess by the smell of it… and what exactly makes this manipulative drivel a “truism” for you renald?”

Actually, I’d like to take credit for that bit of wisdom but I have to credit the real source, Shakespeare. I commend Renald for seeing the value in it.

Shakespeare first observed this trait of using aggression as a means to divert attention from one’s involvement in a deception. The aggression’s purpose is twofold, one to convince others of one’s innocence and also to convince one’s self, as people caught in an unsavory act and ensuing deception often don’t see themselves as that sort of person, and there is a part of human nature that thinks it can convince itself it did not engage in a certain activity if one denies it often enough or forcefully enough.

Hamlet’s mother Gertrude, who was complicit in the murder of his father, denies it profusely, causing Hamlet to utter the famous line – “Methinks the lady doth protest too much.” This is one of the main MO’s of the blog, “protesting too much”, when confronted with a varying viewpoint from their own. Perspective Student, in #72, observed that some on the blog were “in a fox hole with military helmets, dialing in the next rpg attack.”

Aposate tells us that often people will display this uber aggression when they are convinced of their correctness. I’m not so sure about that. I remember when O.J. Simpson entered his plea in the murder trial of his wife Nicole, he practically screamed at the judge – “Absolutely not guilty!” Absolutely? Methinks he was covering up something with that “Absolutely.”

Generally people don’t overreact to an accusation when it doesn’t apply to them. If you go up to the handsomest man or the most beautiful woman in the party and tell them you think they are ugly they won’t be aggressive; they may look at you as if you are strange, but they won’t respond aggressively because they know it’s not true. If you approach a border line ugly person who makes a lot of efforts trying to hide their ugliness with the same accusation, then you will probably get a rise out of them.

For Tim and others who’ve been saying – “make your point, where is the evidence?” Consider this a start. Some will say – Only this? This doesn’t add up to much!” But some open minded souls will see it differently. Some will see this as a more true indication of someone’s inner psychology. For the simple reason that a person can write anything, especially if they have “a horse in the race.”

Through words a person can distort intentionally or unintentionally, exaggerate, incorrectly interpret, or intentionally mislead. But a person’s reaction to a comment is like a ‘lie detector.” The outer reactions give away the inner world. And the outer (involuntary) reactions of the blog, to anyone in disagreement with their position, does tell a tale.

134. I in the sky - August 27, 2012

Agent 45 – 125

“Statistically 3% of the population are psychopaths.
3% x (1450 members) = 44.5 psychopaths. Cosmic, huh?”

Which 3% of the blog would you venture to say are psychopaths? Shall we have a roll call?

135. James Mclemore - August 27, 2012

(This may be my last post for a while. I think I will go back to taking a break.)

Ames, Tim, Apostate, WhaleRider, Golden Veil, Fe fi fo fum, Bruce, Tempus Fugit, and several others lately -Great writing!!!!

I in the sky –

The reaction of the blog does seem to tell a tale. It is simply because of the stories recorded here. For 125 pages people have told their stories and painted their picture. Res ipsa loquitur. Anyone who reads those stories with an open mind and open heart will know immediately that it’s not a work of fiction. The real life tales told here reveal the dark underbelly of the Fellowship of Friends as it is, a little piece here and a little piece there; and the ugliness that plainly exists in that core is not really open to question any more in my opinion, except to those who refuse to look or that have no conscience.

You come here and write these long philosophical and sort of pseudo-psychological posts, but it seems to me that the people here are soooo far past your philosophy and rendition of things that you can no longer even see them from where you are standing, although you seem to imagine or pretend that you can. You are way too late anyway, and try as you might you can never ever hide what has already been exposed and which can now be plainly seen by anyone who comes here to honestly take a look.

136. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 27, 2012

Round 4, and this paranoia bout is really hotting up! The crowd are getting involved, shouting out encouragement and insults!

Tim in the red corner noticed that “I in the sky”‘s mask was previously worn by legendary ninja Daily Cardiac, which got the crowds attention.

The ref has had to warn “I in the sky” about answering a question with another question several times. But he’s also had to warn Tim about tugging at “I” ‘s mask.

There’s not much in it, and a solid right from either opponent might be enough to finish the bout.

seconds away, round 5!

137. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 27, 2012

134 “I in the sky”

Which 3% of the blog would you venture to say are psychopaths? Shall we have a roll call?

ooo yes please, can I be a psychopath today teacher?

As homework I’ll stalk “I in the sky”, hiding behind bushes and growling, phoning up and breathing hard, and insinuating my way into the heart of darkness that lurks within the chest of “I” with a view to positioning myself for a grand gesture of some kind when “I” least expects it.

I’ll use flattery, I’ll tell “I” they are evidently very well read and cultured, and have a crystal sharp mind whose logic has me gasping with admiration. Then I’ll line up a few coincidences, and tell “I” this shows we are on the right track, and the gods want us to be close.

If I’m feeling really mean, I might even resort to sarcasm.

“Dinsdale!”

138. Agent 45 - August 27, 2012

Frankly, I’m not too sure about anyone. You don’t have to be crazy to post here, but it helps. (I think Bruce is self-medicating to try to address the problem ). Thank you for your concern.

139. apostate - August 27, 2012

around 133
in this post pie in the sky attributes the ‘source’ for her ‘wiseacring’ to shakespeare… in her mind this ‘source’ — being one of the 44 named by her teacher — is just as infallible as her ‘teacher.’ so she feels confident in supposing a line from hamlet proves her point here… (?!)

her supposition is no less absurd than the ‘proofs’ burton and burtonites claim to derive from passing license plates… it’s in fact the same magical thinking which diverts attention from what’s actually going on…. it’s simply imagination which is passed off as ‘reality.’ (by the way, there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with imagination as burtonism claims… but in burtonism it’s used to distort the reality of the situation and the ‘true believers’ are manipulated by taking fantasy literally). i will repeat part of a quote from Hillman posted above:

“Psychopathic behavior is a fundamentalist behavior: taking fantasies literally and also confusing the literal and the concrete.

pie in sky is a troll who attempts to divert and discredit the accounts recorded in these pages…. she ‘proves’ nothing with her drivel.

140. TARDIS - August 27, 2012

James, 135. Well said. I appreciate your posts.

Agent 45. The FOF would love people to believe what you just wrote. It’s a lot easier to ignore the concerns of a former member if you believe they are crazy or paranoid. Framing things that way predates the blog by about 35 years.

141. Fee fi fo fum - August 27, 2012

133 I in the sky said, “Hamlet’s mother Gertrude, who was complicit in the murder of his father, denies it profusely, causing Hamlet to utter the famous line – “Methinks the lady doth protest too much.” This is one of the main MO’s of the blog, “protesting too much”, when confronted with a varying viewpoint from their own. Perspective Student, in #72, observed that some on the blog were “in a fox hole with military helmets, dialing in the next rpg attack.”

A comment on Shakespeare’s Hamlet, where Gertrude utters the famous line, “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” is:

Protest: That word in Shakespeare’s time did not have the identical meaning it does now. It was less a denial and more of an avowal. However, so as not to imitate your tendency to focus on a word’s opposite and thereby steer everyone’s attention in some other direction, to “protest too much” would probably have meant that one’s avowal for X meant one might be interested in something other than X, or even (gasp), not-X.

Frankly, really, honestly, sincerely: I don’t think ex-FF members who are “protesting too much” in regard to their experiences of the FF are harboring secret desires to return to the FF, pay into its reduced coffers and rush back to RB’s bosom (or other part of his anatomy).

Also, put the “methinks” in the back of the sentence. Maybe time to reread that wonderful play about deceit and discover, a story of Hamlet’s uncle getting what he wants through deceit (in general, that is, murder, specifically), but discovered for it by Hamlet. Perhaps we can use the analogy of the blog for discussing and airing out the various secretive practices by RB and the FF’s convoluted explanations regarding the sex and money. (Unless we want to divert the bloggers’ attention by talking about “never trust your uncles.”)

It is “prospective student,” not “perspective student.” That was a very common error by FF members. They sound similar, and few people notice, but just sayin’ that I heard that slip many times at “perspective student meetings.”

A prospect is a candidate. Perspective relates to a view. Just about all of the blog posters who left the FF were once, by definition, prospective students. We joined, we believed, we saw, we doubted, we struggled, we got some perspective, and we left. Ain’t nobody wanna go back.

142. jomopinata - August 27, 2012

I in the Sky (125/90) inquires whether it’s fair that posters here criticize the Fellowship, while she criticizes the blog. “Is that not fair?”

In my view, her comparison of the blog and the Fellowship sets up a false equivalence. The Fellowship is an institution. The blog is basically a cross between a bulletin board and a campfire. People “belong” to the Fellowship. People don’t “belong” to the blog. The Fellowship promulgates a set of “values,” a way of being. The blog emanates from no particular person and so can’t be said to do that, although individual posters may have their own values and may advocate a particular way of being.

So every time I encounter a criticism of “the blog,” I imagine a catapulted stone hitting a cardboard façade, or a cork bulletin board. The blog has no “author.” Criticisms of the views or conduct of the people who post to the bulletin board, or spit watermelon seeds into the campfire, may have or lack merit. But criticism of “the blog” itself misapprehends a target where there is none.

143. nigel - August 27, 2012

I may not know too much about the subject, being ‘reared’ in a small business environment, but surely ‘heads’ of corporations and religious organizations are not to have their private lives ‘hidden away’ behind ‘secret doors’. The complaint by Linda Tulliso about this subject surely pales in comparison to the facts that need to be aired in order for FOF members, ex-FOF members and prospective FOF members to make decisions for themselves about how ‘safe’, physically, emotionally and psychologically, the FOF cult is…..

“You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free”

– Jesus Christ –

144. brucelevy - August 27, 2012

Makes me recall sitting as a captive audience at large meetings and having to listen to the endless bull shit “angles” from Linda while watching her inwardly preening and preparing to bite the head off her present “mate”. Beats ipecac.

145. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 27, 2012

143 Nigel:

I think of it more that a special space has been created, with unusual possibilities of communication across boundaries, and part of the way that has worked is that people could if they wished be anonymous in here.

I see parallels with the carnival in Venice, where people could have intercourse across the social divide for a short season each year.

You are correct of course, there are serious matters involved in the conduct of the FoF cult, but I would prefer we don’t thereby lose the possibilities whereby anyone – even that possessor of a short ugly prick, Burton himself, would be welcome to join in the fun here. He would actually be less fun than “I in the sky” as he is very dimwitted, but let’s keep this as open a forum as possible, I say.

146. apostate - August 27, 2012

renald, congratulations! pie in the sky ‘commends’ you!

if this ‘pie in the sky’ is linda, or someone of a similar ‘standing’ in the organization, i think i can safely say of anyone who’s been involved in that organization for any length of time, they do know about burton’s long history of abusing the trust of members in the organization through his position as an ‘authority’ figure. this includes among other things, continuing violation of ‘fiduciary responsibility’ — through his misconduct he crosses moral lines which any true ‘teacher’ worth his salt would never even think to approach much less cross. ‘pie in the sky’ knows of burton’s misdeeds and misconduct and yet she has the audacity to come here to try to deflect and defend…. that makes her more than complicit, she’s an accomplice to the moral criminality that runs the organization… but in ‘fairness’ she has an excuse… she’s had her head so far up burton’s ass for so long that she can’t recognize the light of day… she is a prime example of a ‘sleeping machine’ — all buffers, no independently functioning conscience.

defining a couple of terms:

magical thinking is a belief that merely thinking about an event in the external world can cause it to occur. It is regarded as a form of regression to an early phase of development. It may be part of ideas of reference, considered normal in those instances, or may reach delusional proportions when the individual maintains a firm conviction about the belief, despite evidence to the contrary. It may be seen in schizophrenia. an erroneous belief, similar to a normal stage of childhood development—Piaget’s pre-operational phase—that thoughts assume a magical power capable of influencing events without a physical action actually occurring; a conviction that thinking equates with doing, accompanied by an unrealistic understanding of cause and effect.

a troll, in internet slang, is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

147. Golden Veil - August 27, 2012

89. I in the sky – August 25, 2012

“Golden Veil,

I do plan on addressing your questions, but in the mean time I have one for you. If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?”

Well, I answered your question… will you please answer this one?

160. Golden Veil – August 22, 2012

“I find myself wondering HOW it is that any student [or anyone] reading about the dark side of the Fellowship of Friends, especially the emotional, psychological, financial, and sexual abuse of the very students themselves (or HEAR about a student’s own personal experience), is able to repress their conscience and continue to take part in [or support] the organization? There must exist a serious disconnect from all “non-Fellowship” ideas, and a very firm belief in the Fellowship “Authority” ~ a very intense “brainwash” or “mind control.”

Any thoughts about this, I in the Sky?”

148. WhaleRider - August 27, 2012

Bruce:
…preparing to bite the head off her present “mate”. “

Castration was one means that women in power dealt with male aggression in their midst.

I distinctly remember feeling publicly castrated by Linda T. at a meeting she led when I asked a sincere question about how to prolong higher states.

One person gave an angle, then she gave me a “photograph” for vanity and the topic was changed before any more constructive suggestions could be given.

It seemed to me at the time that any “real” discussion about success at self-remembering among followers was a taboo subject.

Given her vital role in the cult, I imagine that Linda T has had ample time to refine her techniques of dodging questions, dealing with agression (as though all agression were bad), obscuring the truth, and counter attacking those whom confront her.

But what she doesn’t address speaks volumes…the suffering of others.

It is not a big leap to suggest that if she were posting here, despite her claims to contrary, that she would be doing so out of vested self-interest. Otherwise, she’d be out of a job, which is why I’d encourage her to post anonymously.

Robert E. Burton spares no one at the chopping block.

149. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 27, 2012

#143 Nigel-

Thinking some more about the Venice carnival masks, probably much of the time people DID know who was behind the mask, but pretended not to for the sake of good fun. But it was probably a sign of very poor manners to unmask someone during the carnival time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_of_Venice
Pretending not to know is how I feel after the “I in the sky” revelations.

I hugely respect the stand that you take under your real name. You are one who has stood up to be counted and the FoF needs to know there are those like you who are not scared of their bullyboy tactics. You are to be commended for your courage.

However I don’t think that you should thereby take it that you can out other people. There has been testimony on the blog of such excruciating and personal detail, which needed to be aired, and it might not have been heard without the anonymity option.

I believe the serious goal of warning others of the dangers that lurk behind the loving smiles of the Fellowship of Friends, can be assisted by the use of humour and satire. It has always been hated by authoritarian leaders and with good reason, it undermines their foundation of lies and threats. That will work best if FoF members can come here and try their hand at justifying the unacceptable.

150. brucelevy - August 27, 2012

149. Shard_of_Oblivion

But they don’t justify the unacceptable. They skirt it in every way imaginable. For me it’s a fucking insult, and they should be treated accordingly. Fuck them and anyone who accommodates this bull shit.

151. Golden Veil - August 27, 2012

~
B.S. may just stand for belief system.

152. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 27, 2012

Moderator – my post 149 “thinking some more..” was specifically directed in response to Nigel’s 143, and loses its sense without that at the top. Any chance you could insert #143 Nigel at the top of 149?

153. Toby - August 27, 2012

145. Shard_of_Oblivion

“…but let’s keep this as open a forum as possible, I say.”

I personally don’t equate disagreement (no matter how sharply worded) with a lack of openness. Part of the openness here, don’t forget, is anyone’s ability to identify bullshit and nonsense when they see it, and to disagree — actions that within the Fellowship, and other cults, are not allowed.

Also, you’re again bringing the focus to “the blog.” To me, it’s ironic to suggest that the blog is not open and does not welcome a variety of opinions. This is exactly how cult leaders maintain their control — a lack of openness — and this is one of the primary topics in these pages! If you’re really concerned about openness, you have plenty of material to work with when discussing Burton and the FOF. A few years ago, there was the change of format for the “meetings” where people were no longer allowed to express themselves openly, but instead were directed by Burton to give ready-made statements provided by Burton and his closest enablers. All other comments and questions were unwelcome. And then you have the obvious evidence that an “open forum” does not exist in the FOF — the fact that so many people are expelled for asking direct questions and expressing their negative opinions about Burton. And then you have the incessant photographs for “negativity” or “injustice ‘I’s” for anyone who expresses their doubt, or who articulates their concerns.

Remember that it’s open discussion about Burton’s actions that would make it easier for followers to process the information they’re receiving. Because this type of conversation is disallowed in an open forum, it makes the process of truly evaluating this cult more challenging. To a large degree, you need to figure things out for yourself, or find help on the outside — which by the way, is also discouraged.

I think about how much easier it would have been for so many hundreds, if not thousands, of former followers if this blog and the GF site, and Tim Campion’s site had been around throughout the 1970s, 80s, and 90s.

In both current and former members of this cult, I’m sensing there’s a wide spectrum of attitudes regarding how destructive or criminal they believe this cult is. If a person doesn’t believe that Burton’s intentions are nefarious (or if they don’t care whether his intentions are nefarious or not), or if they believe his actions are relatively less harmful than many people have stated, then they tend to think that criticisms of Burton and the FOF are exaggerated, and that people’s comments are extreme. If a person still feels that way after reading these pages, then there’s not a whole lot to talk about. But my suggestion to anyone who feels that there’s “negativity” or “paranoia” or “injustice ‘I’s” when former members express their criticisms is to read these pages more carefully and with an open mind.

154. Golden Veil - August 27, 2012

Re: 149. Shard_of_Oblivion – August 27, 2012

No one has been “outed” here on this page… you speculate!

155. brucelevy - August 27, 2012

153. Toby

Word.

156. I in the sky - August 27, 2012

Regarding post 101:

WhaleRider – 90

“Gee, why is the Mafia still in business, too?”

I in the sky: Because in the Mafia lots of people have guns and a lot of people make a profit. In the organization described on the blog only one person is making a profit and he doesn’t have a gun.

Several people took a stab at this one but no one really got the gist. However, I’m sorry Jomopinata failed to see the humor.

WhaleRider’s implication was obvious. That the FoF could exist for 42 years means nothing – even a corrupt organization like the Mafia continues on.

Being in a playful mood I pointed out the practical reasons why the Mafia existed, namely many people made a profit and, coincidentally, they carried guns, in case someone decided to muscle in on their business.

The point I was making was simply this: According to the blog RB is the only one in the FoF getting something, everyone else is having something taken from them. In that case it wouldn’t exist all these years. When only one person, or 10, or 50, out of 1500 are getting something it would not be possible to sustain itself. When people don’t get what they came for they leave and if no one gets what they came for everyone leaves and the organization ceases to exist. Unless the one or 10 or 50 have guns to hold you in.

Jomopinata, see the following post regarding coercive persuasion and the like.

Ames – 110

“But, I beg to disagree about the second part. (Referring to oft responded to Mafia comment) He might not have a physical gun himself (though his guards are armed, so that’s just sophistry on your part), but he certainly has an enormous psychological gun, doesn’t he?’

Actually no; if he has a psychological anything it’s not a gun; it’s more like a bouquet. This is where our worlds do not communicate, and I think the onus is on you why the gap exists. You are projecting your experience on to current members. People stay because they want to stay; most are grateful for the opportunity to stay. If you could bring yourself to comprehend this you would be closer to the reality of the situation. Do you want to be closer to the truth, or would you rather support a conclusion that is a fantasy?

People stay because they are getting what they want, some are getting a lot of what they want, some are getting a part of what they want. If someone’s outlook changes and they do not want what is offered anymore they do as you did, they leave. I understand it’s difficult for ex members to allow the reality that the FoF is capable of dispensing something that might be useful to others but what can I say?

This is why I don’t engage in a lot of threads; for the very reason that most here do not admit that people stay because they are getting something they value. So the back and forth goes nowhere. I think the way I’m responding to what is said by others exposes a good deal of flawed logic, not to mention a bitterness and anger, and those emotions do reveal something about the individual expressing the emotion.

If what the blog says about the FoF is true then the tables should be turned. The ex members should be the ones being measured and reasonable in their responses. They are the ones who should be displaying some compassion or empathy. After all they would be the ones who escaped, the ones free of the abuse and mind control so there would be a calmness and gratitude. The ones still in would be the ones uptight, angry, as they would still be under the stress of abuse. But it’s the other way around, which really makes no sense to any reasoned mind.

But people’s insistence on not even allowing that another is living the life they willingly and openly chose and the one they describe, says a good deal about the individual who disallows for that reality.

And my only interest is in calling attention to the mis information and flawed logic. I’m not here to defend the FoF or change anyone’s mind, or convince anyone of anything. If what I say makes sense to anyone reading, so be it. As I said before I don’t have great stake in what is said here. If the FoF is what it claims to be none of the criticism matters. If it’s what you claim it is no defending on my part will better it.

Here’s an interesting situation:

Back on post 90 I posed two questions, this one to Golden Veil, which she and a number of others answered.

“If all of what has been documented on these 124 + pages is true why do you think the FoF is still in existence and carrying on its activities 42 years on and 6 years into the blog and the releasing of such information?”

Here is the second question, which no one chose to answer:

“Do you think it’s possible for an ex member to obfuscate when responding to my comments or questions, or is it only possible for me to obfuscate in dealing with comments and questions from ex members?”

Considering the question the lack of an answer becomes more than a little ironic.

157. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 27, 2012

“I in the sky” you need to help out here a bit. I am making a case to allow you to keep your anonymity but you undermine that case yourself. Bruce makes a good point, you haven’t answered specific questions. Why not meet us half way and answer one thing before you return to your trolling ways. Here is something specific that I would like to know what you as a person feel when you hear about it.

A man called Thomas E… came through London in 1989, and spoke some truth to a number of students in London at the time. Here is the gist. Here was a young and enthusiastic member of the FoF from the early days, and like many of us wanted closer access to the esoteric knowledge that Burton claimed to be able to impart. He started travelling with the teacher, and one day over Golden Gate Bridge in a car Burton reached across the car and touched Thomas’s genitals as Thomas drove the car. Thomas was shocked and shouted to Burton “You’re a fucking faggot” to which Burton pricelessly responded “I’m not a fucking faggot, I’m a Goddess”. Despite this vigorous initial response Thomas found himself encircled by Burton, who holds all the strings in the FoF, and had to regularly indulge Burton in the practices oft described on this blog involving oral and anal sex. He told me that Burton was very overweight at the time this was happening, and that he came to hate the mounds of flesh, always heavily perfumed, and Burton’s horrible little cock, so that performing his duties became a torture for him. This was the early days before Burton had built up his harem, so it was tough on the few he was using at that time for sex. Here is the killer bit for me. Thomas told me as a young man he would look out of his eyes at the surrounding adoring students, and knew not one of them would believe him if he spoke about the situation he had somehow found himself in. I looked Thomas in the eye as he described this, and saw the pain and loneliness Burton had subjected another human being to, simply to satisfy his lustful urges, and I knew in that instant that he was one of the cruelest men I have ever had dealings with. Up till then I had heard of lovers, but had assumed there was mutual trust and pleasure to be found, an expression of higher emotional centre even. Instead I was face to face with something much more sinister.

What did you just feel reading that story, you as a human being “I in the sky” there is something there in you to feel, there must be. Tell us how you felt.

158. Tim Campion - August 27, 2012

Shard,

As I mentioned before, self-revelation begins as soon as we enter the conversation. This blog uses the Gravatar system which identifies us by our e-mail addresses (not revealed), our “stage names” (obvious) and our avatar (also obvious, and linked to our e-mail address). We self-identify by our behavior and by the content of our words.

Without logging in under different e-mail addresses, many here at times choose to vary their stage names. They do so without explaining their motives. Often it appears merely whimsical. When they do this, their avatar is unchanged, so we might still recognize them as “the same person,” with a different stage name. Some create new identities using new e-mail addresses (though they don’t change their behavior or content much.) Is there an expectation here that, for the sake of “fun” or convention, we should overlook information that is available to all, and obvious to some?

Bruce gave away no secret. He pointed out what is probably obvious to those familiar with the Gravatar system, (though it may have been more correct to say that “Daily Cardiac” and “I in the sky” are using the same e-mail address, rather than “Daily Cardiac” is “I in the sky.”)

“rock that boat” made the statement about Linda Tulisso (former Fellowship of Friends President) being “Daily Cardiac” several years ago. It’s an interesting theory, and seems to apply, but remains unverified for this poster. I “record the possibility” and let the evidence continue to accumulate. (For me, the strongest evidence is in the content of their words, which led me two weeks ago to ask “I in the sky” about their voice being indistinguishable from the “Howard Carter” and “Daily Cardiac” characters. For the record, they denied having knowledge of any such connection.

159. brucelevy - August 27, 2012

“Actually no; if he has a psychological anything it’s not a gun; it’s more like a bouquet.”

Doesn’t that pretty much fucking say it all?

160. brucelevy - August 27, 2012

How far can one stick one’s head up one’s ass and still breath. Evidently pretty far.

161. nigel - August 27, 2012

156. I in the Sky

“Getting what they want” = “Getting what they are told they should want”…..Nigel.

162. Tim Campion - August 27, 2012

Blog Classics Presents

(Recognize this voice? Note the familiar generalization “defense”.)

Opus111 – 13:

“You have not done anything to change the increasingly clear perception of Robert Burton’s true nature, as the testimonials have accumulated over the past two years. After all, you can deny, but cannot change the accumulation of facts.”

First of all, let’s take FoF and Robert out of the picture and speak in a general sense, at least to begin.

Ultimately, people believe what they want to believe; not always, but as a rule. One can see this in any arena; politics, religion, sports, economics, etc. This blog is no different. The truth can be objectively stated, but that does not guarantee that someone lacking of truth will recognize it, or want it if they do recognize it. People have attitudes,and certain truths don’t fit into certain attitudes. Attitudes are harder to let go of than truths are to embrace. So, the truth is often the one left out in the cold.

I’m telling another side of the story and not the side being told by ex-members. How much truth is contained therein remains to be seen, and may not ever be seen. If someone is genuinely looking for truth they will find it no matter where or how it is presented; this much I can say with certainty

Where is the logic or reason to say my truth cannot be The truth? All comments on the blog are equally non-vetted. Does a majority in agreement constitute truth? That certainly conjures up an interesting world.

You say I’ve “not done anything to change the increasingly clear perception of Robert Burton’s true nature”, yet if you really read what I’ve written at face value (and tried it on for the sake of following my thought processes) you would see that there has been a plausible reasoning put forth as to how some of these areas can be misunderstood by ex-members, as well as insights that explained other possible motivations for behavior deemed unfit by ex-members.

The fact is you simply don’t, won’t or can’t, buy into my explanations, and that in itself does not disqualify them from containing truth, in whole or in part.

And I really don’t see where anyone has successfully deconstructed, or refuted (proved wrong) the main issues I’ve been pointing out.

The main thrust of ex-members logic is basically “a conscious teacher should not or would not do what Robert does”, and that’s not enough of a reason to claim as truth. Who validated your/their compasses to be true north?

If you want to offer evidence that some or all of Robert’s actions disqualify him from being conscious you need to come up with something other than “it’s morally wrong” or “a conscious being wouldn’t do that” or “so many have been made to suffer.” I have addressed why it’s necessary for anyone seeking enlightenment to suffer greatly, to suffer much more than they care to. The prize is dear and the price is equally dear.

There is a strong reasoning, or logic, to support the fact that a conscious teacher (any conscious teacher) cannot behave, or manifest like his students want him to, and if he did he would descend to their level rather than they ascend to his. It is they who are seeking enlightenment, and the teacher who is pointing the way, not the other way around. Again, take RB out of the picture briefly, and ponder this statement on it’s own merit.

Teachers do what they do; they confuse, they turn the disciple’s world upside down, they disorientate, they create intentional chaos in order to uncover mechanical chaos, they contradict themselves (or their station). I say “they” do it, but in fact it is done through them. They also help dislodge those who are stuck, and some of these go out and others come closer in. They do all this to break the small will of the disciple so that he or she will distinguish the lower from the higher in themselves, which they cannot do at the time of their entrance into a school.

Most of the ex-members here bought into that when they joined the FoF. Now that they are on the other side of their FoF experience some of them proclaim that people don’t need a teacher to awaken, and that in fact we are all already awake, and we always were, we just didn’t know we were. It’s not what I encounter but all things must be possible, so maybe they are right. Then again maybe it’s a predictable ploy to help bring sanity into a sans school world.

(Source: Daily Cardiac, September 9, 2008)

163. apostate - August 27, 2012

“I understand it’s difficult for ex members to allow the reality that the FoF is capable of dispensing something that might be useful to others but what can I say?”

she could say what she imagines the fof is dispensing that might be “useful to others”…

“I think the way I’m responding to what is said by others exposes a good deal of flawed logic, not to mention a bitterness and anger, and those emotions do reveal something about the individual expressing the emotion.”

and you know “the hypnotized never lie…” the flawed logic being exposed is of course her own… the main flaw in what she presents here is the seemingly unshakable belief in her own infallibility, the unshakable belief in her own powers of ‘reason’ and ‘logic.’ in her mind other points of view are ‘flawed.’ this is another telltale sign of brain washing, the result of living so long in a mind control environment. coming from her mind controlled environment with the programming against any sincere expression or feeling of individual emotion, she doesn’t understand the emotions expressed here. “negative” emotions are a ‘sin’ in her world, something to be suppressed and repressed, so she doesn’t understand that experiencing a strong emotion is not going to kill you, and one is certainly not going to hell for experiencing their own individual emotional world… a world this poor soul is completely cut off from.

“The ex members should be the ones being measured and reasonable in their responses. They are the ones who should be displaying some compassion or empathy.”

she would like to ‘dictate’ what ex members ‘should’ be doing here, how they ‘should’ be feeling and responding. i think she hasn’t a clue about empathy or compassion… aren’t life people supposed to be ‘the damned’ in her worldview ? she doesn’t have a clue about empathy or compassion, if she did she would recognize that the outpouring of experiences left here in these pages by ex members are at least partly an attempt to steer others clear of the pitfalls of her corrupt organization. as an online community ex members can offer some support to those who would like to leave but need some help doing so… an act that comes out of empathy and compassion.

“The ones still in would be the ones uptight, angry, as they would still be under the stress of abuse. But it’s the other way around, which really makes no sense to any reasoned mind.”

the ‘ones still in’ are in a mind controlled environment with a very strongly implanted program against the expression of “negative emotions.” this in effect cuts a person off from her own feelings. people in this environment learn to fear their own emotions and the thoughts that go along with their own individual feelings.

the “reasoned mind” this doesn’t make sense to is her own mind. “reasoned mind” in this case is self-referential, her mind is simply “seasoned” by programming implants which control her thinking and her emotional life. replace “reasoned mind” in her statement, with the word “brainwashed” then you will understand why it makes no sense to her… “it really makes no sense to any brainwashed mind.”

“Mind control is the shaping of a person’s attitudes, beliefs, and personality without the person’s knowledge or consent.   Mind control employs deceptive and surreptitious manipulation, usually in a group setting, for the financial or political profit of the manipulator.   Mind control works by gradually exerting increasing control over individuals through a variety of techniques…
etc

164. apostate - August 27, 2012
165. WhaleRider - August 27, 2012

When a person’s head is stuck too far up their own ass, their thinking becomes insular and convoluted, like the walls of the intestinal lining, eventually becoming denser and firmer…but unfortunately such people don’t ever find the comfort and sustenance of the womb they were seeking… because they choose to live in darkness, content with artificial light.

A person so afflicted seems to be conversing mostly with themselves in a bubble, in this case one big, long, well-greased bubble, that I guess develops a nice, pleasant echo over time, muffling any disturbing outside noise.

These poor, sick people are also not able to ingest nor digest any new information because they continually shit, then eat and swallow their own toxic waste in a circular fashion…long after the nutritional value is gone.

Metaphorically speaking.

166. waskathleenw - August 27, 2012

I’m not sure how effective attempts at rational/reasonable conversation are with I in the Sky, Howard Carter, Daily Cardiac, etc. These conversations are valuable, though, because they are windows into thinking and attitudes that are bound up in a limited world view.

Thinking and attitudes shaped by our experience are common to all of us, of course, but I in the Sky’s posts reveal little engagement with what lies outside the tightly controlled information set and emotional range approved by and available within the Fellowship of Friends, Pathway to Presence. What is revealed can be mind-boggling to someone outside that bubble.

It reminds me of a 5-year-old pontificating about the nutritional value of purple lollipops and “proving” the fallacious thinking of those who don’t agree. More is revealed about the developmental stage of the child than about the nature of lollipops or the people listening. The 5-year-old has no idea of this.

This is good. Keep it coming I in the Sky. When your thinking and experience are shaped and bounded by the contents of the FoF bubble and you can only speak from that, you reveal interesting and useful things about yourself and your organization.

167. nigel - August 27, 2012

143. nigel / 149, 152. Shard of Oblivion

Don’t be too worried – I am not going away! We have a worthwhile fight on our hands and some fights are worth winning. Something about the televised Edinburgh Tattoo (I was there in person just over 2 weeks ago) just got me fired up – Why do things go wrong? why are there things that seemed noble just beefed-up shit? Did we take the ‘kings shilling’ and then forget to fight? Hope these similes are not too obtuse.

I would not be exactly too amazed if Burton is having major FOF players take to the ‘blog field’ in an effort to make us ‘worthwhile survivors’ back down.

Let’s take the fight to the centre!!!!!…..Nigel.

168. nigel - August 27, 2012

164. apostate

…..just a taster from the link…..Nigel.

“Is there really such a thing as “brainwashing,” or “mind control?” What kind of person is susceptible? What exactly is a “cult” and how are followers controlled? How can one recognize an organization that engages in such practices, and should such organizations be held responsible for the damage intentional manipulation can cause?

The most insidious threat to our basic freedoms, such as freedom of mind and freedom of speech, is a little-known phenomenon known as mind control. “Mind control” refers to all coercive psychological systems, such as brainwashing, thought reform, and coercive persuasion. Mind control is the shaping of a person’s attitudes, beliefs, and personality without the person’s knowledge or consent. Mind control employs deceptive and surreptitious manipulation, usually in a group setting, for the financial or political profit of the manipulator. Mind control works by gradually exerting increasing control over individuals through a variety of techniques, such as excessive repetition of routine activities, intense humiliation, or sleep deprivation.”…..there is more…..n.

169. Opus111 - August 27, 2012

Which 3% of the blog would you venture to say are psychopaths? Shall we have a roll call?

For those who wish to know for themselves, I would suggest to (re) read the first 5-10 pages of this blog. If you do not feel ill and an urge to throw up at the end, you may have a problem with two of the main features that characterize psychopaths: lack of empathy and conscience.

170. fofblogmoderator - August 27, 2012

#152- Shard, I took care of it.

171. WhaleRider - August 27, 2012

“…not to mention a bitterness and anger, and those emotions do reveal something about the individual expressing the emotion.”

The inability for an individual to comprehend, let alone express the emotion of moral outrage reveals something about their character, too, something nonexistent.

To experience and openly express moral outrage, that person would need a functioning conscience.

172. Golden Veil - August 27, 2012

156. I in the sky – August 27, 2012

“People stay because they are getting what they want, some are getting a lot of what they want, some are getting a part of what they want. If someone’s outlook changes and they do not want what is offered anymore they do as you did, they leave. I understand it’s difficult for ex members to allow the reality that the FoF is capable of dispensing something that might be useful to others but what can I say?”

You would need to say more than that to convince me, I in the sky, that the large numbers of supporters a charismatic cult leader is able to convince (via basic group coercion and mind control) to stick around is an indication that membership in the Fellowship of Friends is beneficial to anyone in a moral, beautiful, or healthy sense…

And, the argument of “How could so many (around 1,500) be wrong?” is grandly fallacious. In point of fact, see this video at 3:29… this man could be speaking about The Fellowship of Friends, couldn’t he? And, look what happened to him, even though he asserted that

“I’ve never been so happy or fulfilled in my entire life. I can’t begin to describe it; you could sit here and talk all day long, and no words could describe the peace, the beauty, the sense of accomplishment and responsibility and comradery that’s here, it’s overwhelming, it really is.”

How could this handsome young man and the countless others in the group who agree with him possibly be so delusional? The answer is mind control and a paced brainwashing… remember, this is achieved by recruiting seekers who want more from life and giving them “what they want” ~ only slipping the absolute craziness regarding absurd predictions, listening to “Influence C” via dead artists and philosophers, etc., and handing over large amounts of either your hard earned or unwisely taken line of credit (or your penis), all that is achieved by cult mind control bit by bit…

I in the sky, I don’t think I’ll need you to answer my question (first asked on Page 124, Post 160, and repeated on this page, posts 102 and 147) any longer, as the answer most definitely lies above in what I’ve already written.

Thank you, just the same, I in the sky (whomever you are), for all of your posts; you’ve definitely give me rich food for thought. I continue to build upon and make sense of the old madness my participation in The Fellowship of Friends seems to be to me now.

173. jomopinata - August 27, 2012

When you show up at a campfire and announce you are a spittoon, Lacuna Piñata, don’t be surprised when people start spitting watermelon pits at you.

174. Joseph Nachumovitch - August 28, 2012

General Reminder: Nobody wants to read your posts as much as you want to write them.

175. Tempus Fugit - August 28, 2012

I feel strongly we should follow our blog rules and not try to identify anyone by their real name, even by implication.

Please consider that people who have suffered abuse, trauma, and mind control may be very fragile. Some people who need help will be afraid to post here If they think they will be identified and FOF leadership will punish or expel them.

And if someone is kicked out against their will they may just rejoin with even greater commitment. They may reinterpret their reasonable doubts about the FOF as a mistake, and never question again.

Further still, FOF members may not even read the blog in secret because they hear second hand that members who have posted have been identified, and they have some delusion that Robert Burton or “C influence” can read their minds.

I also feel strongly we should try to be civil if we can, even though sometimes we need to express difficult emotions.

Consider this partial quote from “I in the Sky:”

“156. I in the sky – August 27, 2012

If what the blog says about the FoF is true then the tables should be turned. The ex members should be the ones being measured and reasonable in their responses. They are the ones who should be displaying some compassion or empathy. After all they would be the ones who escaped, the ones free of the abuse and mind control so there would be a calmness and gratitude. The ones still in would be the ones uptight, angry, as they would still be under the stress of abuse. But it’s the other way around, which really makes no sense to any reasoned mind.”

There is truth here, even though “I in the Sky’s” account is lacking important considerations.

What “I in the Sky” misses is the need for recovery, that recovery takes time, and the experience and expression of anger are essential parts of recovery for many people, and this blog is one place those feelings are welcome.

However, the call for blog writers to display “compassion or empathy” is a good one, and one I agree with.

We don’t really know who’s listening or what they hear, so why not welcome everyone equally and create conditions conducive to understanding? Adults can hear civil criticism, but excessive personal attacks just drive people away and make the writer seem small minded.

So how can we make the blog so welcoming that even someone like “I in the Sky” will feel accepted and heard?

Just think, “I in the Sky” may find freedom too, “I in the Sky” may recover. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if some day she/he showed up at a reunion of ex members and said:

“Thank God for that blog, or I never would have escaped.”

176. WhaleRider - August 28, 2012

“They are the ones who should be displaying some compassion or empathy.”

Yeah, right. Please officer, the handcuffs are too tight!

Spoken like a true sociopath.

A true, genuine sociopath will ask you for mercy so they can stab you in the back, grasshopper, trust me, you will only make that mistake once.

I hope you live through it.

177. Fee fi fo fum - August 28, 2012

Tempus Fugit, those are generous and optmistic words.

Yes, there is always a chance that even the most rigid, doctrine-bound, insulated FF member will question the group and its leader. The odds here are probably slim to nonexistent. For someone who is deeply entrenched in the FF to leave that group, there needs to be some dissatisfaction with the FF or RB. Do you detect that here?

Let’s not mistake the recent semblance of inquiries for real exploration of issues among a group of equals. Ex-FF members, in general, are not perceived as being worthy of sincere conversation with inner circle FF members. If one expresses anti-FF and anti-RB views, then one is only fit to be made verbal sport of, usually with a patronizing attitude.

Tempus Fugit, I don’t know if you were kind and compassionate towards students who left the FF, but I clearly remember dismissing them. Sometimes I was sad when they left, if I had formed a bond with them. But part of being a “good student” is that you cut them off, you don’t associate with them in any sincere way, because they have “lost the way.” This whole “being on the way” thing is all part of the mind control doctrine.

178. brucelevy - August 28, 2012

174. Joseph Nachumovitch

General information…you’re the greasiest mo********er here. You can kiss my ass.

175. Tempus Fugit

Fuck that shit.

179. brucelevy - August 28, 2012

As for civility, fuck that too.

180. Agent 45 - August 28, 2012

Blog not like being told how to behave. This just makes Blog angry.

181. brucelevy - August 28, 2012

Linda’s oeuvre was to get all the dirty shit on anyone and report back to the Queen. There’s a special ring in hell for that greasy shit..

182. brucelevy - August 28, 2012

And you don’t want blog angry.

183. TARDIS - August 28, 2012

There was a time when most if not all of us believed that Burton had our best interests at heart, and that he meant well. Now it’s hard to believe that anyone could have sanely adopted that attitude about him. I suggest people try to use that experience to inform your attitudes about some of the people who post here. I doubt that anyone would attempt to communicate with Burton with the attitude that he could be persuaded, or that it would solve anything to try to help him. He is obviously pretty far gone. Keep in mind that many of his enablers, including the ones posting here, are also pretty far gone. They are impervious to any calls from conscience. In general it’s a waste of time communicating with them, unless you simply make them an example of indoctrinated cult thinking. And actually, an occasional outburst of annoyance or anger given their onslaught of nonsense seems pretty reasonable. I cant imagine anyone expects nods and thank you’s given the extent of their obnoxiousness.

184. I in the sky - August 28, 2012

Shard_ of_ Oblivion – #157

“A man called Thomas E… came through London in 1989, and spoke some truth to a number of students in London at the time.”

The world we live in is not a fair one. Many people suffer. I suffer a little whenever I see strangers suffering, in Syria or Iraq, or when I read about a child going missing. The world is a pain factory, as GG put it. If I had my say there would be no suffering, hence Thomas would not have had that experience. But I’m not the Absolute.

Regarding RB and his unconventional, confusing, confounding manifestations I can only say – had I not witnessed his many acts of consciousness I would not have stayed. For me he is a real teacher. Aside from his methods I have studied the lives of many men who the world proclaimed to be a Master, and many displayed behavior that in one way or another confounded others to the same degree as Robert Burton’s do to his contemporaries. I do believe in fate and I do believe that Thomas’ fate led him on that trip along the Golden Gate Bridge.

Why I do not know, but he obviously had to experience it. I do not consider this or similar stories to fall into the category of sexual abuse for the simple reason that people do have a free will and can at any time say no. Many have gone that route and that was the end of the advances. Perhaps that was part of the test, to learn how to say no, even to the teacher. To learn how to not inner consider. On the other hand sex is not as sacred to all similarly. There are people who had they gone through the same experience as Thomas described would have thought nothing of it.

I know there will be some others who can’t get to the keyboard fast enough to try to deconstruct this entry. I understand that. Sex is a taboo area for many. You asked for my explanation and everything I’ve said is from the heart. There are no simple explanations. There are no black and white answers although many want things to be black and white. The FoF is a complex organization. You have not seen the entirety of it and I have not seen the entirety of it. Ditto everyone on the blog.

185. rich - August 28, 2012

509296 20:36 Wednesday 2nd November 2011
586894 16:37 Sunday 12th August 2012
Weekly average 1620 hits .
589886 20:55 Monday 20th August
Daily average 365 hits.
The previous averages were calculated from one date and time to the next , not
necessarily listed .This is useful to indicate present ebb and flow .
The following data are averages from the beginning of the blog ,
Sunday ,April 16th 2006 to Monday , August 27th ,2012.
Yearly average 93186
Monthly average 7759
Weekly average 1791
593167 20:55 Monday 27th August 2012
Exact number of hits for week Monday 20th August 20:55
to Monday 27th August 20:55 precisely 3281 .

186. Agent 45 - August 28, 2012

Blog like opposition. Make Blog strong. As bow is bent so flies arrow.

187. jomopinata - August 28, 2012

“Blog not like being told how to behave. This just makes Blog angry.”

ROOOOOOAAAAAAAAR!

188. Shard_of_Oblivion - August 28, 2012

184 “I in the sky”

Thank you for your reply to my question as to how do you personally react to a specific story. I do feel you gave me an honest answer, and I am inclined to respond to your answer as a real communication between people.

If you could have you say you would have spared Thomas his harrowing ordeal, and that is the human response.

You say you believe in fate, and I guess this is where we simply fundamentally disagree. Fate as you use the term includes a faith that there are powers beyond the human which arrange that each being on earth or elsewhere gets the life that specifically gives them the lessons they need to progress to to what ever higher state they (the higher forces) deem is our destiny. And I can see that if someone (not necessarily you Someone) fully believes that, then in its most extreme form it will give a believer a way to accept pretty well anything at all that ever happens.

My subjective viewpoint doesn’t include fate in the strong sense you use it. I do get twinges and goosebumps sometimes when coincidences happen, and I enjoy those uncanny moments a lot.

I don’t totally rule out the possibility that there exists some powerful entity who

(a) could achieve it physically (knowing what I do about quantum physics etc this is a very very big ask indeed)

(b) could be bothered to. (why fiddle with the lives of we tiny puny humans, in order that we get exactly the right lessons from life? We’d get roughly the right lessons with no interference at all, after all.)

But I must say that I find it very unlikely indeed, and my subjectivity is probably best described as Atheist.

Your subjectivity includes a higher purpose to the encounters that Thomas had with his teacher, which means that suffer as he did YOU trust that Thomas in the end has benefited in some spiritual way from his time with Burton. And you base that on your own direct observations of Burton, which are far more extensive than mine, over many years. I acknowledge that this counts for something, you are an intelligent person, and you have had a chance to observe Burton at pretty close hand for many years, and you believe he is what he says he is – a conscious teacher able to lead his followers to a better life. It sounds like you may have seen some things over the years that made you pause, but I acknowledge that your continued happy membership means that there was nothing that you were unable to cope with using your “crazy wisdom, the lower cannot see the higher, this is all a play written by higher forces for the benefit of my evolution” work “I”s

And I can see that if you truly believe that everything is arranged by higher forces, and I believe that you do, then it is possible to accept pretty much anything. I can remember doing it when I was a student, I was quite good at it in fact.

Thomas’s story for me broke through that shield. The “separate from this – it’s all a play” work I could not cope any longer. I woke up and saw that Burton had been cruel to a vulnerable and adoring follower, and it just wasn’t right.

We each of us have a sense of whats right and wrong. It’s the modest mechanism we all use daily in our own lives to decide whether or not to make a certain remark in company for example.

My personal feelings when Thomas told me, and again now when I reread my post describing his situation (which lasted some years) are of overwhelming outrage at Burton’s behaviour and sympathy for Thomas.

Thank you for answering about a specific case, to be honest I didn’t think you would, so you have surprised me.

189. Golden Veil - August 28, 2012

42. Daily Cardiac – January 3, 2010

Someone – 30:

“It is obvious that neither you nor anyone else in the FOF care about the wellness of any ex-member.”

I can’t speak for others but I don’t wish harm to any ex member. Can that be said about ex members towards current members? As far as caring about the wellness of ex members; I’ve been saddened over the departure of many I considered friends. I also feel they discarded their own wellness when they departed.

I will say this – read the comments and you will see I respect people here more than they respect me, or respect you for that matter. They are trying their best to tear down an organization I helped build along with them but one I continue to value highly. Do you expect me to get chummy with people under those circumstances?

You are convinced I’m dishonest but this is as honest as anyone can get, as this is how I feel and what I know as truth. It’s been the same in all my posts.

For me the whole experience of the blog would have been a waste if I did not express my experiences and reality as accurately as possible. My valuation for the FoF continues while yours ceased and that’s’ where the disconnect enters.

When a person cannot relate to the choices or lifestyle of another the first primal instinct is to criticize; this is how we recalibrate and re-validate our own existence.

If person A sees worth in something person B has discarded then person B must either disparage person A’s choice or reconsider their own choice, and if reconsidering is not an option then disparaging will do nicely. But there’s a better way; you made your own choice and I made mine. What could be more just than that?

There are no victims in the FoF and I think you understand that. When people become dissatisfied about the FoF they do what you did, they depart. And when they depart I’m grateful for their efforts and friendship but I do not endorse their decision to go. Ultimately it’s better all around for someone to depart if they lose trust in the teacher or the school and I also understand that.

190. Golden Veil - August 28, 2012

191. apostate - August 28, 2012

ok let’s break it down:

“The world we live in is not a fair one. Many people suffer.”

this is a working rationale for the pain inflicted by her teacher and his organization which she helps to support.

“I suffer a little whenever I see strangers suffering, in Syria or Iraq, or when I read about a child going missing. The world is a pain factory, as GG put it. If I had my say there would be no suffering, hence Thomas would not have had that experience. But I’m not the Absolute.”

the ‘world is a pain’ factory — the buddhists said this long before ‘GG’ came along — she admits to Thomas’ suffering at the hands of her ‘teacher’ so the question arises: wouldn’t a “conscious being” (in her terminology) know when his actions are going to inflict more pain and suffering… and wouldn’t it make sense for even a relatively ‘enlightened being’ to restrain their own cravings and the actions flowing from those cravings so as to reduce, if only by a quantum, the suffering of others…? it seems to me this would constitute an act of “intentional suffering” on the part of a so called “conscious being” — her teacher. wouldn’t an enlighten soul strive to alleviate the suffering and pain in the world… in whatever way they could, as opposed to adding to it (?)

“Regarding RB and his unconventional, confusing, confounding manifestations I can only say – had I not witnessed his many acts of consciousness I would not have stayed.”

this is a big part of the brainwash… that burton is “conscious” and everyone else on the planet is not…. cognitive dissonance controls the minds of those in the organization…. she uses the words “RB and his unconventional, confusing, confounding manifestations….” this is an indication of the cognitive dissonance going on there. what this pie in sky doesn’t realize is her own consciousness… she is able to witness “his many acts” and this implies her consciousness. i would be interested to hear more detail regarding what pie in sky witnessed… and how she interprets consciousness. i think part of the mind control and brainwash there has to do with the members abdicating/sacrificing their own consciousness and projecting it onto their ‘teacher.’

“Aside from his methods I have studied the lives of many men who the world proclaimed to be a Master, and many displayed behavior that in one way or another confounded others to the same degree as Robert Burton’s do to his contemporaries…”

yes admittedly burton is a small time scam artist and there are many other ‘masters’ of the games he plays, using many of his same techniques to fleece a few sheep. cognitive dissonance is one aspect of mind control. this statement by pie in sky just goes to show that burton is not unique in regard to the scam and that there’s a sucker born every minute.

“I do believe in fate and I do believe that Thomas’ fate led him on that trip along the Golden Gate Bridge. Why I do not know, but he obviously had to experience it.”

this is supposed to justify the long and sordid history of sexual predation by burton… refer back to what is stated above — an ‘enlightened being’ would have known better, he would have been able to sense the error of the act before inflicting himself on another in that way. if he was “a conscious being” he would have been able to restrain his impulses… but he cannot, he is completely controlled by his cravings and impulses and this as it turns out has repercussions and consequences in the lives of others. because he’s unable to control his cravings he adds to the suffering of the world through his actions. people arrive at burton’s doorstep looking for spiritual guidance and instead they get is a blow job…. it’s an outrageous fraud.

“I do not consider this or similar stories to fall into the category of sexual abuse for the simple reason that people do have a free will and can at any time say no. Many have gone that route and that was the end of the advances. Perhaps that was part of the test, to learn how to say no, even to the teacher. To learn how to not inner consider.On the other hand sex is not as sacred to all similarly. There are people who had they gone through the same experience as Thomas described would have thought nothing of it.”

and this is supposed to justify burton’s wanton behavior ? being in a thought control environment herself, pie in sky doesn’t seem to recognize the power of coercive persuasion… she also doesn’t want to acknowledge the age and background of many of burton’s victims, these young naive people join the fellowship looking for spiritual guidance, the targets of burton’s predation are usually in their early 20’s, far from home, ff programming has cut them off from family and friends on the outside… in a word the targets of burton’s predation are VULNERABLE… and they believe that by following the instructions of ‘the teacher’ that they might get closer to the imaginary goal of “consciousness.” pie in sky admits to the pain that is experienced by going through the ff curriculum… she even rationalizes that the pain burton inflicts is part of the ‘testing’ of her ‘school’ and somehow this validates it, goes to show that it is a ‘legitimate conscious school.’ admittedly difficult life lessons are learned through the ff experience, mainly how to detect a charlatan and a fraud… a lesson pie in sky and her colleagues have yet to learn.

imo if burton were truly ‘enlightened’ and not simply a narcissistic sociopath who is only interested in self-gratification, then his little ship of fools would be about working to alleviate some of the pain and suffering in the world rather than using ‘the world is a pain factory’ angle as an excuse and justification for blithely adding to the pain and suffering here.

“…The FoF is a complex organization. You have not seen the entirety of it and I have not seen the entirety of it. Ditto everyone on the blog.”

it appears that this poor soul will probably continue to view the world through a lens warped and distorted by her years in the ff, and she may never see what she needs to see in order to be free of it… speaking personally i’ve seen plenty and enough.

192. apostate - August 28, 2012
193. TARDIS - August 28, 2012

Shard. “We each of us have a sense for what’s right or wrong.”

This is one of the primary self justifications for all sorts of inhumane actions throughout history — that what someones else thinks is abusive or criminal is not actually abusive or criminal as far as I’m concerned. So I will continue doing what I’m doing, and supporting what I’m supporting.

By the way, one of the traits of a sociopath is that they want people to believe that they have a conscience. It gives them an advantage over others. They will talk about suffering and pain and they will pretend that they have empathy. Their actions betray their real attitudes about these things.

194. jomopinata - August 28, 2012

For those interested, “Report of April 13, 2007 Site Visit to Fellowship of Friends Compound by Citizenship and Immigration Services Fraud Officers, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, United States Department of Homeland Security” is now online:

http://archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_781

195. Ames Gilbert - August 28, 2012

I in the sky (#125-156 or thereabouts),
Q. “Do you think it’s possible for an ex member to obfuscate when responding to my comments or questions, or is it only possible for me to obfuscate in dealing with comments and questions from ex members?”

A. Yes to both.
____________________________
I in the sky (#125-184 or thereabouts),
You said, “Regarding RB and his unconventional, confusing, confounding manifestations I can only say – had I not witnessed his many acts of consciousness I would not have stayed. For me he is a real teacher.”

You’re getting down to the heart of things here. ‘Acts of consciousness’, forsooth! What you mean is that his visible ‘acts’ match what you imagine the actions of a ‘conscious teacher’ should be. His acts match either the pre-conceptions you came with when you joined, or (more probably) the conclusions from circular reasoning (I believe his claims that he is ‘conscious’, so all his actions must be those of a ‘conscious being’). If you are claiming that somehow you can observer his internal world and know what impels each of those acts, you should be the teacher, not him. But in fact you’re lying, to us and more importantly to yourself. You are just sprinkling your imaginary magical fairy dust on everything so it glows to your satisfaction.

Your whole defense of Burton and his works rests pretty much on the fact that we can’t possibly know everything that is going on with him and the Fellowship of Friends, visible and invisible, past and present, and until we do, we have no right to make judgments. But that is another specious claim. We don’t have to, we just have to look at the evidence we do have, the fruits of his actions, the effects he has on his surroundings as he lives his life. Ditto what I call the ‘crazy wisdom’ defense, the ‘lower can’t see the higher’ defense, ‘the gods have taken away the understanding of those that leave’ defense, and on and on. All that is left is that Burton undeniably has charisma, that bunches of naïve, hopeful seekers joined his fantasy for varying lengths of time, and that most left.

The ones that stay, like you, feel that their choice is correct, of course, that all his claims are the Truth, and that your job is to find the evidence to support those claims. He’s your Teacher, regardless, you say. And so he is. He can only teach you what he knows, from his self-serving fantasies, and it shows. But I accept that you are happy that you sacrificed your truth to his truth, and that you have no regrets.
BTW, I have no intent of ‘changing your mind’ either, nor is it my business to do so, even if I had that power.

And P.S. Please, try to make your confabulations du jour more consistent. For example, sometimes you tell us that we have ‘free will’ and at others that it’s all a pre-ordained play. I know, it’s hard when the God-Emperor of Oregon House does the same to suit his needs, but do try.

196. fofblogmoderator - August 28, 2012

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