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Fellowship Of Friends/Living Presence/Pathway To Presence Discussion – Page 114 September 29, 2011

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Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion.

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Comments

1. Tempus Fugit - September 29, 2011

Hello! I am joining this blog so I can add my voice in warning others about Robert Burton. If you are a member of the Fellowship of Friends you are in real danger.

The spiritual aspirations which led you to seek the FOF are honorable. Unfortunately, like thousands before, you have been fooled.

Luckily it is not too late. Leave now while you still can.

2. The FOFion - September 29, 2011

Burton predicts his 44th prediction will come true

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Fellowship of Friends Cult Leader Robert Burton announced Wednesday that his 44th prediction of global catastrophe is the one that will actually come true.

“My students do not discuss this very often, but of course none of my previous predictions have been accurate,” Burton said. “But the gods have indicated to me with a series of recent shocks that my 44th prediction is the one that will alert us to events that will actually occur.”

Burton said he will accelerate his predictions in the coming years.

“This is necessary,” he said. “because the being of the school continues to accelerate.”

He predicts that he will make his 44th prediction in the year 2020, and that it will “probably involve a very large earthquake” or possibly something worse, he added — with millions of men, women, and children dying at a unknown future date.

“This is such a lovely shock,” Burton said. “The year 2020 is a symbol of perfect vision. Influence C will finally give me an accurate indicator of what will happen and when. It is amazing how truth is stranger than fiction, is it not? And sometimes it is also more absurd than fiction.”

Burton declined to comment on what he predicts his prediction will be in the year 2020.

3. Renald - September 29, 2011

re. 1. The FOFion – Are you sure you aren`t writing his material for him? This is so spot on!

4. 2011 - September 29, 2011

FOFion- Great post! Please post more often. Any current “students” who are reading the blog might actually start to get a sense of how much BS Burton spins. Reading someone else that has an almost identical “voice” to Burton’s might shake them a little and make them realize that what comes out of Burton’s mouth is just empty unverifiable crap.

5. Shirley - September 29, 2011

FOFion

“The year 2020 is a symbol of perfect vision.” Better than a license plate.

6. fofblogmoderator - September 29, 2011

#1 is new

7. Renald - September 29, 2011

Found on answers a thought on the relationship between Psychiatry,
Schizophrenia and Mysticism:

Biological causes happen. Developmental errors happen. Cultural monstrosities happen. Yet, the most widespread causes of cognitive confusion happen because people choose to believe concepts without examining their rational base.
Once a person does that, the path to chemical imbalances, psychiatric disorders, mystical escapism is open.

There are students which I remember walking around looking like they were headed for the looney bin. Some of them escaped and apparently are doing fine now.

8. Ill Never Tell - September 29, 2011

7. Renald :

‘There are students which I remember walking around looking like they were headed for the looney bin.’

Yes, looney been there, do that!

9. Ill Never Tell - September 29, 2011

Ooops! Should have been:
Yes, looney been there, done that!
I’m losing my grip.

10. Associated Press - September 29, 2011

‘You were formed by the experiences . . .
things that bothered your conscience.’
on Democracy Now!
Wednesday, September 28, 2011
Michael Moore
Oscar-winning filmmaker
Best-selling author
Provocateur laureate

Segment: “Here Comes Trouble”:
Michael Moore Tells The Formative Tales
Behind His Filmmaking, Rabble-Rousing.

Excerpt from the transcript:
AMY GOODMAN [Host, Journalist]: Talk about high school graduation [at age 18].

MICHAEL MOORE: Well, yes, so I started to say that I was in line for graduation, and boys had to wear a tie under their gowns. So, this vice-principal is going down the line, checking under everybody’s gown to make sure they have a tie on, and this kid in front of me; the assistant principal stops and he says, ‘Where is your tie?’ He [the boy] says, ‘I have a tie.’ And, he had one of those string ties.

AMY GOODMAN: Bolero.

MICHAEL MOORE: Bolero, yes, yes. And he [the boy] says, ‘This is a tie.’ And he [vice-principal] said, ‘This is not a tie.’ He yanks the kid, physically, takes him out of the line and says, ‘You’re not graduating.’ He was going, ‘But, Mr. Ryan.’ He [Mr. Ryan] says, ‘Out!’ He just takes the kid out to the door, and that was it. Twelve years of going to school and the kid couldn’t graduate because he had on the wrong kind of tie. But, the real thing that bothered me about that, wasn’t so much what Mr. Ryan did to this student.

AMY GOODMAN: He didn’t graduate?

MICHAEL MOORE: He did not graduate, that’s right, that’s right. But, that I stood there, and I had just been elected five days earlier to the board of education. [18 year olds recently were allowed to vote (July 1, 1971 – Twenty-sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution) and hold elected office and Michael Moore stood for election to his local board of education in order to get this vice-principal fired for beating students with a board. He won the seat.] I stood there and said nothing. I and all the other students. Nobody said anything. Nobody objected. And I was so bothered by that. And then I heard from the boy’s mother the next day and she called me crying, and she said, ‘Why didn’t you say anything?’ I said, ‘I was still a student.’ She said, ‘But you’re also on the school board.’ And I thought, wow, this is the way it usually is. I really – I probably – I didn’t want to risk me not being able to graduate. So I turned the other way. I didn’t want to stick out my neck because it might get chopped off. And that’s really how we’re trained. I mean, we’re trained from an early age, the system, the society, the schools, whatever, that wants to make sure that we don’t upset the applecart too much. I felt so bad about myself after that and I said to myself, that’s the last time you’re going to remain silent; you see somebody being picked on like that, you see something that’s wrong, just wrong, you have to say something no matter what. So, at 18 years old, it had a real – but, don’t you think, though, in our lives, it’s sometimes those small things, those little incidents that really have profound implications for us in terms of how we are formed and how we, sort of, decide to live? When you’re born, you didn’t come out of your mother on the day you were born and say, ‘I will someday host a show called, DEMOCRACY NOW!.’ Although, you may have, I don’t know. I shouldn’t say that. But, you were formed – you were formed by the experiences you had, things that you saw, things that bothered your conscience, and you became who you became as a result of that. I think we’re all like that, and I think we all have stories to tell. . . .

So I was very lucky to be – to have that kind of life and have parents that really encouraged me to follow my conscience and stand up and say what I thought was right, and be willing to take the consequences for it; be who you think you are.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/28/here_comes_trouble_michael_moore_tells

11. Associated Press - September 29, 2011

On YouTube:
Michael Moore on His Memoir
“Here Comes Trouble,”
His Filmmaking and Rabble-Rousing. 1 of 2 18:56:

Segment transcript quoted above is at 11:04

12. Associated Press - September 29, 2011

Conclusion:
Michael Moore on His Memoir
“Here Comes Trouble,”
His Filmmaking and Rabble-Rousing. 2 of 2 15:44:

13. nigel - September 29, 2011

…..to WhaleRider, mainly…..

I have been applying your theme of BOUNDARIES to my recent work and daily life. If you have been following the blog in the past few days, you will have recognised that I was fluctuating – rapid-cycling in the psychiatric forum – but have had a soft landing today to a fairly stable state. The idea of ‘me-time’ is quite popular these days, but I seem to apply it as in the process of recovery. I am not going to put myself today ‘out-on-limb’ by over-stepping the limits of my psychological state…..

We take care of ourselves to the extent that we can be of use to others when time gives us the opportunity…..Nigel.

14. surelyujest - September 29, 2011

7 Renald

“Yet, the most widespread causes of cognitive confusion happen because people choose to believe concepts without examining their rational base.
Once a person does that, the path to chemical imbalances, psychiatric disorders, mystical escapism is open.”

Very well put. Even when I was a true believer of the FOF and dedicated follower of the 4th way, I tried to keep separate the ideas that I had verified and ones that remained a theory for me. But over time, due to the corrosive effects of the atmosphere and peer pressure, I found myself more and more willing to speak about things I could not possibly know anything about. But I never went so far as to confidently spout that non-believers would end up on the moon, and then give detailed descriptions of what their awareness will experience there. That would be really crazy.

15. jbalance - September 29, 2011

One way to communicate the FOF is using a site called Propylaia.org. There you can find a current students directory, FOF events, and Archives of ‘Thoughts From The teacher’. For the new ‘Thoughts From the teacher’ members and centers have to pay.
To access you will need and Id and PW.

THOUGHTS FROM THE TEACHER

A one-month subscription in electronic form includes 4 meeting issues?two regular meetings and two Call of the Loon meetings, plus 4 issues of the Weekly Notes. A separate subscription to just the Weekly Notes is also available.

Rates
The monthly subscription rate varies in different countries and categories. Please check your rate below. Students on payroll now receive a special subscription rate.

Monthly Package: 4 Meeting issues, plus 4 Weekly Notes

U.S., Western Europe, Japan, Israel, Mexico City: $24

Students on payroll, Russia, Eastern Europe, India, China, Beirut, Istanbul, Latin America, Central America: $12

Translators of the ?Thoughts?: $4

Weekly Notes Only: 4 issues per month:

U.S., Western Europe, Japan, Israel, Mexico City: $12

Students on payroll, Russia, Eastern Europe, India, China, Beirut, Istanbul, Latin America, Central America: $8
——————-

Excerpts from ‘Thoughts From the teacher’ include endless gibberish. Here is a sample:
“The greatest contradiction in nature is that of the higher self and the lower self temporarily cohabiting the same body. From this comes the ‘Struggle of the Magicians.’ It is a very necessary irritant.”
Bob Dylan said, “Time will tell who has fell/And who’s been left behind/When you go your way and I go mine.” Time will tell what will happen to the lower self, and what will happen to us. It will be a happy ending for us. 17 A square mosaic from the Antiquities Museum, Alexandria, depicts two male figures. Here we see a wonderful illustration of Gurdjieff’s “Struggle of the Magicians.” The white figure is the king of hearts, while the black figure, who has whitened his face, is the king of clubs pretending to be the sequence. The king of hearts is restraining the king of clubs while the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths are occurring, represented by the urn with eight divisions at left, going outside of time. It is a huge composition. It was almost lost, but Influence C saved the message: Gurdjieff’s “Struggle of the Magicians”—the white king against the black king—the white queen against the black queen, the nine of hearts against the nine of clubs

16. veramente - September 29, 2011

from 15 – j balance
“Time will tell what will happen to the lower self, and what will happen to us. It will be a happy ending for us. ” Robert Burton
I cannot resist and I will say that this grand esoteric teacher is having several happy endings on a daily basis mainly with his younger male students/victims, his lower self under the waist region is having a great time; look how much it has been created at Apollo and abroad BECAUSE of his DICK! I doubt he will ever have enough!!!
I am afraid his sexual appetite has been the driving force behind the “school” in all these years.
——-
PS: The blog, it’s nice to see it thriving!

17. Arthur - September 29, 2011

Jbalance (15),

Those poor people that believe “thoughts from the teacher” as written will have a great deal more “head/heart” aches once reaching the free open highway. More so than those who left under the fake 4th Way environment.

These students of gibberish and alternative sex will need padded cells.

18. silentpurr - September 29, 2011

Tim, you can hear the “amazing daughter” sing on Democracy Now, 7/16/08, Simone White @ 20;01 into the program.

19. Tempus Fugit - September 29, 2011

I was a member of the FOF a long time ago. I moved on with my life and lost touch with people I knew in the group but was curious to know what had happened to them and the group after I left. I discovered this blog a few years ago and read parts of it occasionally but only recently explored it in any depth.

My motivation to write, at least at present, is fairly specific. In my opinion Robert Burton is a false teacher and the FOF is a false teaching. Other posters here have suggested that current FOF members may read this blog. I hope that’s true and it will help them make the decision to leave.

If you (the current FOF member) read this blog with an open mind I don’t see how you can fail to be convinced. This blog in various phases goes back to 2006 and contains many hundreds if not thousands of posts. I challenge you to spend a few hours reading as much of this blog as you can, from different years up to the present.

Certainly one or two or a dozen people claiming they were deceived and abused convinces no one. Any large group of any kind will produce a few disgruntled members. However, I believe the sheer mass of stories of deception and cruelty found here, along with their consistency, condemns Burton beyond any reasonable doubt. If you read with an open mind I think you will come to the same conclusion.

And it’s not too late to get out. I believe the Fellowship of Friends story will have a very sad ending. But your life can have a good one, and that starts as soon as you turn around and walk away.

20. Tim Campion - September 29, 2011

The Fellowship of Friends: Celebrating 44 Years of Delusion.

Ollie and jbalance: thanks for the glimpses behind the curtain.

Tempus Fugit: welcome to the discussion! (I think you’ve come to the right place.)

silentpurr: you must be very proud, but you’re too modest. You didn’t mention her website!

21. nigel - September 29, 2011

“In My Craft or Sullen Art”
by Dylan Marlais thomas

In my craft or sullen art
Exercised in the still night
When only the moon rages
And the lovers lie abed
With all their griefs in their arms,
I labor by singing light
Not for ambition or bread
Or the strut and trade of charms
On the ivory stages
But for the common wages
Of their most secret heart.

Not for the proud man apart
From the raging moon I write
On these spindrift pages
Nor for the towering dead
With their nightingales and psalms
But for the lovers, their arms
Round the griefs of the ages,
Who pay no praise or wages
Nor heed my craft or art.

(I have so many young friends who are couples, and wish them to know that true love can come at any time – it is for me – I am in love with a beautiful [inwardly and outwardly] Irish girl who fills my thoughts – thank you so much all of you…..Nigel)

22. nigel - September 29, 2011

…..from my little book, “The Promise of a New Day”, given to me by Wendy Byrne…..

“Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word “happiness” would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness” – Carl Gustav Jung

Life is full of contrasts. What we perceive or feel at this moment is often heightened by an experience we just passed through. It’s the sum and substance of all experiences and our feelings about them that give meaning to any single moment.

Joy is understood only in a life where discouragement made its mark. Our lives are recharged, even glorified, by every moving experience, no matter what kind of emotion is evoked. In fact, our very existence is verified each time an encounter invites an emotional response.

When we are sad, it is because it satisfies a need to feel that way. If we accept this fact, our acceptance of every emotion grounds our lives in a serenity which embraces and transcends all ou feelings.

“Whatever I may feel today is cause for celebration. It’s a sign of my vitality.”

23. nigel - September 29, 2011

“The People”, by William Butler Yeats…..

‘WHAT have I earned for all that work,’ I said,
‘For all that I have done at my own charge?
The daily spite of this unmannerly town,
Where who has served the most is most defaned,
The reputation of his lifetime lost
Between the night and morning. I might have lived,
And you know well how great the longing has been,
Where every day my footfall Should have lit
In the green shadow of Ferrara wall;
Or climbed among the images of the past —
The unperturbed and courtly images —
Evening and morning, the steep street of Urbino
To where the Duchess and her people talked
The stately midnight through until they stood
In their great window looking at the dawn;
I might have had no friend that could not mix
Courtesy and passion into one like those
That saw the wicks grow yellow in the dawn;
I might have used the one substantial right
My trade allows: chosen my company,
And chosen what scenery had pleased me best.
Thereon my phoenix answered in reproof,
‘The drunkards, pilferers of public funds,
All the dishonest crowd I had driven away,
When my luck changed and they dared meet my face,
Crawled from obscurity, and set upon me
Those I had served and some that I had fed;
Yet never have I, now nor any time,
Complained of the people.’
All I could reply
Was: ‘You, that have not lived in thought but deed,
Can have the purity of a natural force,
But I, whose virtues are the definitions
Of the analytic mind, can neither close
The eye of the mind nor keep my tongue from speech.’
And yet, because my heart leaped at her words,
I was abashed, and now they come to mind
After nine years, I sink my head abashed

24. WhaleRider - September 30, 2011

nigel:
I’ve been traveling the last few days and just tuning in. I enjoyed your quote from Jung; he’s one of my heroes!

Your post “mostly to WhaleRider” brought tears to my eyes, mate. I’m glad you are working on your boundaries and doing more self-care. Without healthy boundaries we lack integrity. I wish you many more happy and soft landings! Keep up the good work.

I’d like to acknowledge Ames who took the time to write about his personal boundaries about helping others, along with Nick Bishop’s altruistic impulse to help others, which both inspired me.

I am a firm believer in social rehabilitation as a model for sustaining mental health…meaning, people helping people as equals.

renald:
“Yet, the most widespread causes of cognitive confusion happen because people choose to believe concepts without examining their rational base.”

That’s exactly what we can choose do for each other here. I am glad you are posting, too, despite our differences of opinion.

Associated Press:
Thanks for the Michael Moore piece, he’s one of my heroes, too! Now there’s a guy who has a conscience and a sense of humor! I recently rented his movie called “Capitalism-A Love Story”. It was awesome.

The FOFion:
Thank you so much for posting!

The subtlety of your humor is indeed profound. (My attempts at humor are not quite as sublime…neither was my cult experience. I am still haunted by it .)

jbalance and Tempus Fugit:
Welcome! Thanks for showing up. Hope you stay awhile.

burton:
“The greatest contradiction in nature is that of the higher self and the lower self temporarily cohabiting the same body.”

No, burton, the greatest contradiction in nature is to maintain the delusion that you are a goddess and a man cohabiting the same body.

The fact that you have to set yourself apart from other people and denounce any dissenters in order for your delusion to remain unchallenged only serves as proof.

Just because you can convince others to share your delusion (for a mere $24 per month, all major credit cards accepted), doesn’t make it true.

25. rock that boat - September 30, 2011

19. Tempus Fugit

Tempus hey that is “time flees” gently and firmly confronts the blindness that those still IN the FOF suffer from.
So here is my 2 cents worth;

All of us here on the blog left at one time or another, and all of us got our sanity back, yes we had to start all over, yes we grieved, yes we got mad bad and sad, and then some atonement.

The payment was worth it. Your mind becomes your own again!
Removed from a dark sordid unhealthy environment, away from the spell of a false prophet, one can find the road back to ones true nature, that Self that has always been there, just patiently waiting for the light to be switched on again. No way would one ever venture near such dark influences again.
Time is not only flying …… it is also changing….so wake up

Each day that you continue to support Robert Burton you are hurting your soul, and the souls of those who are RB’s victims.
Its never to late, and look at all the support out there
May the eternal makes you urgent.

26. nigel - September 30, 2011

25 rock that boat

“All of us here on the blog left at one time or another, and all of us got our sanity back, yes we had to start all over, yes we grieved, yes we got mad bad and sad, and then some atonement.

The payment was worth it. Your mind becomes your own again!”

That is so true!…..Nigel.

27. nigel - September 30, 2011

Beth Nielsen Chapman – Hallelujah Lyrics
Artist: Beth Nielsen Chapman

Album: Back To Love

Hallelujah, here we are now
At the same fork in the road
We don’t know why, we can’t say how
We’re still carrying this long

Crashed through anger
Walked in blindness
Stormed the boundaries
Day and night

If we could just remember kindness
Would it matter who is right?
Would it matter who is right?

And all I ever wanted
Was a love that I could say was mine
A heart of gold, if only
It could last a lifetime

Hallelujah, here we are now
At the entrance to the caves
If we stand and face our shadows
Maybe this love can be saved

But I can’t wake up in your darkness
I’ve got darkness of my own
But there’s sacred light between us
That’s enough to guide us home
That’s enough to get us home

And all I ever wanted
Was a love that I could say was mine
A heart of gold, if only
It could last a lifetime

Sweet love’s coming back around this time
Sweet love finally found this heart of mine
Sweet love opened up my eyes
Love that I can see forever
Baby, it is now or never

Sweet love, everything I have with you
Sweet love, test it ’til it’s tried and true

Sweet love, all that we’ve been through
Baby, after everything you still make me sing
Hallelujah

28. Agent 45 - September 30, 2011

“Monkeyarchy” – now there’s a word for everything!
Well played, Bro, you may advance to the next round.

29. Jomo Piñata - September 30, 2011

“Monkeyarchy” — love it!

30. surelyujest - September 30, 2011

“Happiness cannot be found through great effort and will power,
But is already there, in relaxation and letting-go.
Don’t strain yourself, there is nothing to do…
Only search for happiness prevents us from seeing it…

Wanting to grasp the ungraspable, you exhaust yourself in vain.
As soon as you relax this grasping, space is there
–open, inviting, and comfortable.

So, make use of it. All is yours already.
Don’t search any further…
Nothing to do.
Nothing to force,
Nothing to want,
–and everything happens by itself.”

Lama Gendun Rinpoche

To the part of us that believed the myth of “false personality,” this news is infuriating. Something for nothing? It’s tramp! It’s unfair! But, but, but…effort! Will! splutter, splutter…

31. Golden Veil - September 30, 2011

I think that this is about the dangers of following internet financial “gurus,” but it is good advice nonetheless!

http://nextgurus.com/blog/the-danger-of-following-gurus/

32. nigel - September 30, 2011

…..”The Promise of a New Day”…..

30th September…..

“Mistakes are a fact of life.
It is the response to error that counts.” – Nikki Giovanni

We’re not perfect. Our mistakes are consistent with the lessons we’ve been assigned to learn. We strive for perfection in ourselves and sometimes we demand it of others. And when we fall short of the mark, we frequently feel that all is lost. The most important and timely lesson any of us can learn today is that doing our best is as close to perfect as we need to get.

Since falling short of the mark is the norm among us, a second lesson is to learn this fact. What counts is the effort. And even with our best efforts we can’t be sure of the outcome. However, the outcome will be more satisfying if we are confident that we’ve done all we were able to do.

Shame over mistakes, or over shortcomings in general, is certain to exaggerate and multiply the negative self-opinions that haunt those of us who demand perfection. And the result is even more mistakes, because our attention is diverted from the task at hand. We must believe that mistakes are the guideposts to the destination we’re headed for.

“All is not lost if I err today. Mistakes help me stay on course, providing I’m willing to learn from them.”

33. veramente - September 30, 2011

AP # 10
Thanks for the Democracy Now link, I listened to it and really heard Michael M. when he mentioned the “things that bothered your conscience”.
We talked quite a bit about morals and conscience in the FOF and I think the two concepts were well defined already by Mr Ouspensky in one of his books.
Robert Burton did and continues doing a brilliant job in eroding his students conscience; I can say that this is the work of a true e-Evil;
but I do not think there is hell in the afterlife, hell can be here right between one’s own head and heart: the suffering caused by splitting from one’s own conscience is not the friction that helps one evolve. That’s dying! Once a “student” makes peace with that torn conscience (burying it basically) he or she can continue a life without a genuine self. (somewhat dead for a cause he or she cannot verify)

As for my other post written the other day see #16, I realize that expressing myself in that fashion is going to do the opposite effect I intend to in terms of “draining the victims pool”. I expressed enough rage in fact and now I feel millions miles away from the FOF experience, this feels particularly good. There is a life after the FOF/Pathway of Presence. Never doubt that!

34. veramente - September 30, 2011

mispellings….on post 33
“I can say that this is the work of a true e-Evil”
meant to say of a true d-Evil

35. silentpurr - September 30, 2011

Thanks ,Tim. We are proud of her and especially grateful that she grew into a well-adjusted and socially aware individual freely accessing her creativity. When she was a child in the FOF, we changed residence 12 times in 12 years.

36. Ill Never Tell - September 30, 2011

34. veramente:
‘“I can say that this is the work of a true e-Evil”
meant to say of a true d-Evil’

veramente, you are referring to Influence D; Devil Influence.
Looks like: ;-D
(Winking, with left eye open, and laughing – in emoticon language.)
Laughing all the way to the bank with your A Influence (money).
After, supposedly, shunning
Influences A, B, and C,
one comes to Influence D; Devil Influence.

* * * * * *

silentpurr:
I listened to some of her music online. She’s great.

‘we changed residence 12 times in 12 years.’
Been there, done that; except 12 times in 6 years.
No children though.

37. Tempus Fugit - September 30, 2011

Hello friends,
First I want to thank Tim Campion, rock that boat, and WhaleRider for welcoming me to the blog.

I also want to express my deep respect to all those who contribute sincerely here. In reading the blog I have been so impressed by your insights, courage, and willingness to help others. And some of the humor is pretty good too!

Even if only one person, just one, was freed through your efforts all the hard work you have done here would be worth it. And some of you have been posting for years and years. I’m sure that many, not just one, have heard you and acted.

I believe we don’t have power over other people unless we are willing to engage in deception and threats of violence. We may have influence, however, if we treat people with respect and if they want to hear what we have to say.

I believe you wonderful people on this blog have carried a most important message to many open ears and many have heard.

Burton, in contrast, does use deception and threats of violence (spiritual damnation) to control and abuse people. In my opinion he is a very sick, mentally ill human being.

Years ago Burton said that as a conscious being he had conscious love for each of his students. If you are in the Fellowship I urge you to read the many personal accounts of deception and abuse on this blog and find out for yourself how Burton has actually treated people over the years.

And then ask yourself one simple question: Is this the behavior of a conscious being motivated by conscious love?

38. Tim Campion - September 30, 2011

11 22 11 = 44

I can’t imagine Robert Burton missing an opportunity to imbue the mundane with esoteric significance. What is the mad magician’s iPad saying about this approaching date?

39. Tim Campion - September 30, 2011

37. Tempus Fugit

You raise a very important point, and a metric by which anyone may assess Robert Burton’s sincerity. He was always fond of quoting Shakespeare, who wrote:

“Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds”

Robert’s “conscious love” can be seen for what it is, a sham, in the contempt he shows for anyone who has spurned his lascivious advances or left his teaching.

We should probably pity him for his inability to rise above these utterly human failings. As you say, he is very sick. The real tragedy is that so many look upon him as an enlightened being.

40. Shirley - October 1, 2011

18 silentpurr

I listened to the songs on her website. Very nice, how the words come out. Delicious timbre.

41. Arthur - October 1, 2011

Robert E. Burton lost his balance somewhere on the ‘way’.

42. veramente - October 1, 2011

I almost believed the Fofion post # 2. I was just scrolling and my eyes landed in the middle of the post. I was already getting infuriated at RB’s words: “This is such a lovely schock..”
It sounded so much like him!

43. WhaleRider - October 1, 2011

Tim:
“The real tragedy is that so many look upon him (burton) as an enlightened being.”

How many?

I bet it isn’t actually THAT many people who are hard core, 100% convinced of burton’s ruse.

I bet a huge proportion of his followers have just bought into and then invested heavily in the spiritual gamble that he might be who he says he is, but they feel there is no way to be sure, and it would cause them too much pain to walk away from the table.

They become ensnared, caught in the spiritual insurance ruse, “the mind trap” as ton so aptly called it, and so they bet the farm…their whole lives.

Sometimes people want to forget the house always wins and go for the thrill anyway..the tickling of the amygdala.

And it feels pretty good, pretty exciting, to have your amygdala tickled!

burton (the house) will arrange to tickle yours every now and then, so he can, in turn, continually tickle (and have his) tickled.

Then a person gets to liking having his or her amygdala tickled, and they get all used to it, and then they want more and more no matter what the price or cost.

And pretty soon they forget to how to tickle their own amygdalas…and there you have it…you end up being played with, like a trout on a fishing line…which seems exciting and yet translates as job security for socipaths willing to exploit this human weakness of either not knowing when to walk away or of establishing a term policy.

All burton has to do is to set (and reset) the doomsday date, and unconsciously you have to admit, one day in the future, we all will die. In the scheme of the universe, no matter what, you are dead longer than you are alive, and so you’d better get used to it and live life from your amygdala, for the thrill of it, as though every day were your last.

This seems like, well, the same rationale that people use to justify criminal, “self-centered” behavior.

44. Someone - October 1, 2011

I wonder what would become of the 23-30 steady prisoners who are posting here and what will they do with their reminiscences once the FoF ceases to exist. What would they do with their lives then?

After the big leaving in 2006-2009, the number of members remained steadier and in 2011 the balance between those who left and those who joined is almost balanced.

It seems like the FoF had somewhat survived the storm. I’m not sure about some ex-members who are still in RB’s captivity and are still slaves to his existence.

There is not much difference in the degree of captivity if one is possessed by another person through blind admiration or through blind hatred. In both cases it is deep mind captivity.

45. Ill Never Tell - October 1, 2011

41. veramente:
‘“This is such a lovely schock..”’

Not ‘schock;’ ‘schlock.’

Schlock is an English word of Yiddish origin meaning “something cheap, shoddy, or inferior.

46. Golden Veil - October 1, 2011

43. Someone

What you surmise, that ex-Students posting here have no life other than to post on this blog is disingenuous. And while there are a number of diatribes posted here on this blog, there are also hard facts, referrals for health services (HIV testing), questions, answers, revelatory reminiscences, and poetic wanderings.

After Robert Burton’s demise, the organization may somehow keep running along with dues collected and pithy aphorisms and structured group think / brain wash measured out to or shared among the Students. I think it likely that the blog will continue as well, as a location where former Students of The Fellowship of Friends can reminisce, kvetch, curse, ask, answer, and heal.

Many post here with specific intention and purpose ~ to give light to the dark side of the Fellowship of Friends that is carefully concealed ~ that doesn’t show on the elegant websites called “Living Presence.” You may call posting here “imprisonment” or “deep mind captivity” if you like, but I don’t think that these assertions are accurate; just your spiteful turns of phrase.

I wonder how you know that the number of Students joining is the same as the number of Students leaving in 2011.

http://livingpresence.com/who-we-are/Fellowship-of-Friends.html

http://www.livingpresence.com/

47. Arthur - October 1, 2011

Someone (43),

I’ll continue to do as I always do creature of habit that I am.

I’ll peek in here, maybe say something, maybe just read. Look at a submitted video or link.

Then I’ll travel the internet. Maybe take in a documentary at Top Documentary Films. In fact I just came from there. I saw a video on psychopaths. It seems science has found another way of researching psychopathy using genetics.

It seems psychopaths have certain gene missing, researchers call that the “Warrior Gene”. Having that gene missing does not mean becoming a murderer. That impulse comes from invironmental backgrounds. Some psychopaths sit as leaders in various situations.

Psychopaths are charming, clever, manipulative and smart but one thing they cannot actually do is, “feel your pain”.

Then I might go to singing competitions like X-Factor or America’s Got Talent. I really enjoy listening to singers. Especially when the audience gives a ‘voice’ a standing ovation. That even makes me feel good.

I might also go to various newspaper.com’s like SFGate and around the country.

Lately I’ve been studying about ‘marijuana’ and its thousand years of history connected to medicine and spirituality.

And just recently I happened to find a web-site called, “The Ultimate Truth”. I’m just a few pages into that one and finding it very interesting. Among other things it talks about how Truth and Being Present are connected to real experiencing.

I would recommend both to you. Top Documentary Films And The Ultimate Truth for your viewing and reading pleasure.

48. Arthur - October 1, 2011

I’ve lost three posts so it’s good-by until we meet again.

49. Tim Campion - October 1, 2011

43. Someone

And of course the steady shift in Fellowship demographics has not eroded its financial health.

If you’re going to hang with us losers, at least make yourself useful. Maybe you could get us some current financial information to show how the Fellowship is thriving during this “steady-state” period.

Regarding the blog, even accounting for the “multiple personality disorders” among us, there have been over 100 posters this year. In the past couple months that I’ve been visiting, daily hits have averaged about 650. (Now that could be the “23-30 steady prisoners” checking the blog 20 or 30 times a day.) Just realize, in or out, you’re among that valued membership.

50. Golden Veil - October 1, 2011

48. Tim Campion

“In the past couple months that I’ve been visiting, daily hits have averaged about 650.”

Where exactly do you see this number posted on the blog?

51. James McLemore - October 1, 2011

“What would they do with their lives then?”

Someone –

I find myself worrying about you. You do know that this is just a blog do you not? I mean this is not a real space where people are chained up or anything. You have quite the imagination. It does not sound to me like the suffering you must imagine where people are enchained into some slave-making addiction to this blog. Most people (I’m guessing), even if they come here twice each day, may spend 10 – 15 minutes checking some recent posts (probably skipping others), and perhaps even adding something of their own. I really don’t see anyone here going into to a psychological crises, if in fact the victim pool, should happen to be drained.
Thanks for caring though.

52. Arthur - October 2, 2011

Tim Campion,

Thanks for the e-mail.

I dont know what happened. I responded to Someone (43) and it took time because of rewrites and it was longer than usual.

I submitted it and nothing happen. So I typed ‘test’ and that worked.
Then I typed it again trying to remember what I said before. That didnt go through.

It was just words, no video, nothing complicated.

I didnt want to try for third time. So we’ll see it this through.

53. Shirley - October 2, 2011

43 Someone

“What would they do with their lives then?”

[] “They” (We) could form a new cult so we could have something to talk about. Make sure the leader is very, very weird.

[] “They” (We) could have a Farewell Party. Name tags would be optional, in case some of us wanted to identify each other with happiness. Or run the other way.

[] “They” (We) could skip the party and migrate to Facebook, and start a post-mortem discussion group. Or not. Aliases are not allowed on Facebook.

[] “They” (We) could all go our separate ways and remain friends with the people we already are friends with, and bash or not bash the FF when we’re together.

Perhaps the blog is not the all-consuming mental and emotional activity that someone imagines it is.

54. Renald - October 2, 2011

re 43 – Someone – Actually we are possessed by our own habits and addictions, one of which could be to daily reach over here to see what can be done. Habits and even addictions are not necessarily counterproductive. Some are excellent and I would not rid myself of them anyways. To give someone else the honour of the blame is just such a habit of thought, a belief. The deciding factor is whether or not it makes the individual feel good or not, what the emotional result is, the tree by its fruit, so to speak.
Going out into the world to try to do harm is a pretty nasty habit if you ask me, but then of course you wouldn`t do that, it isn`t part of your master`s bidding, or is it?

55. Shirley - October 2, 2011

50 Arthur

Same thing happened to me last night. I posted, and it didn’t appear for a little while. It might just be a quirk in the system.

56. For the record - October 2, 2011

10. Associated Press

Thanks for posting those links to the DemocracyNow interview. Not bad having both Amy Goodman and Micheal Moore in one YouTube video — two for the price of one.

From your excerpt, Moore describes his experience of not supporting a fellow student who was held back from graduation for wearing the wrong type of tie under his robe:

“I didn’t want to risk me not being able to graduate. So I turned the other way. I didn’t want to stick out my neck because it might get chopped off. And that’s really how we’re trained. I mean, we’re trained from an early age, the system, the society, the schools, whatever, that wants to make sure that we don’t upset the applecart too much. I felt so bad about myself after that and I said to myself, that’s the last time you’re going to remain silent; you see somebody being picked on like that, you see something that’s wrong, just wrong, you have to say something no matter what.”

= = =

Golden Veil, the stats are updated automatically by wordpress, and are located in the right column near the top of this page, just below “Recent Comments” and “Blogroll”.

Blog Stats
509,004 hits as of this post.

= = =
“So I was very lucky to be – to have that kind of life and have parents that really encouraged me to follow my conscience and stand up and say what I thought was right, and be willing to take the consequences for it; be who you think you are.”
-Michael Moore

57. Arthur - October 2, 2011

Someone (43),

I will continue to do what I always do being a creature of habit.

I will come here maybe post something, maybe just read or click on to whatever link or video provided.

Then I will travel across the country on the internet stopping at various newspapers.com.

Then go to favorite web-sites like “Top Documentary Films which I just left shortly after reading your post.

The documentary was about Psychopaths. Science has found another way to research their behavior.

They found that psychopaths are numerous, you might be one, or I might be one. Science has found they are missing a specific gene.

This gene they call “The Warrior Gene”, I guess warrior makes it self-explanatory.

Psychopaths do not all end up in prison for murder or other violent crimes those that do reacted to an impulse that’s coupled with environmentals.

Others become head of organizations and institutions. Perhaps you know of at least one. In organizations they found that their efforts are weak and non-productive.

Recently I found a web-site titled ” The Ultimate Truth”. Although I’m just 25 pages in I found it interesting. It talks about Truth in the Present (Be here now?) makes life experiences more clarified.

So I would like to recommend to you “The Ultimate Truth” and Top Documentary Films for you viewing and reading pleasure.

58. Arthur - October 2, 2011

Shirley (53),

I think you’re right about a quirk.

59. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 2, 2011

Arthur,
Encountering glitches with the blog/wordpress website can happen at any time. It can be something with your computer, your internet connection, the traffic on the internet, the bandwidth the hosting/wordpress has connecting their equipment to the internet, the hosting/wordpress computer systems and its traffic, etc.

The best thing to do is: do not compose your blog post in the text window on the blog page. Compose it in a text editor program. The simplest of these is Notepad. It is typically on every Windows type computer going back a couple of decades. You can save your composition as a file on your computer repeatedly as you compose and when done – just in case your computer locks up and/or crashes. Put it somewhere you can find it again. When you are done, copy and paste the text into the text window on the blog page. Then hit the ‘Post Comment’ button. If something fails, you still have a copy to try again. Refreshing the blog page, or going back and forth with the pages, when something goes wrong, you will, likely, wipe out what is in the text window and it may be lost forever in the great wasteland we can cyberspace. I presume you know how to copy and paste text, if not, just ask. I hope this helps.

60. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 2, 2011

Sorry, should be:
‘we call cyberspace’

61. Shirley - October 2, 2011

2 FOFion

““This is such a lovely shock,” Burton said. “The year 2020 is a symbol of perfect vision”

Truth is stranger than fiction. In tomorrow’s NY Times Real Estate section, the article “High and Dry” discusses “Vision 2020”, in light of flooding from future hurricanes in NYC.

So we see that REB was planning a literal Ark, to keep FF members “high and dry” from a flood! Or perhaps, he was thinking of leaving FF members “high and dry” when he exits this plane, having laughed all the way to the bank!

NYTimes 10/02/2011:
“The city is studying ways to limit damage from storm surges and flooding, some already adopted by developers. Those outlined in the city’s comprehensive waterfront development plan, “Vision 2020,” include the installation of retractable water-tight gates at the entryways of buildings…(etc.)

“The city says such measures would help protect against the long-term effects of climate change, which by raising sea levels will not only alter the shape of the shoreline but also heighten the severity of flooding from even minor storms.

“According to “Vision 2020,” sea levels by 2050 could be 12 to 29 inches higher than they are today. By 2080, they could be some 55 inches higher.”

Anyone walking through flooded streets where there are downed electrical wires will, indeed, experience a shock, a very unlovely shock.

62. Tim Campion - October 2, 2011

48. Golden Veil

On August 16, the count was about 479,000. Today it’s about 509,000. 300,000 hits in 46 days is about 650/day.

Right after the Abraham Goldman story broke, the hits were averaging about 800 a day.

51. Shirley

Thanks for giving us something to finally look forward to!

55. Arthur

I’m glad to see your thoughts were preserved.

57. WYLTK

That’s very sound advice. I wish I had the discipline to follow it more often.

63. fofblogmoderator - October 2, 2011

41, 45 and 46 were hung up in moderation

64. Arthur - October 2, 2011

Wouldnt You Like To Know (58),

God bless you but your instructions to me are useless. Here’s why.

I have two identical computers sitting side by side. This one is in use the other is a spare and not hooked up to electricity.

Not long ago this computer started acting up. I thought it was a virus so I ran a long security scan, the scan found one virus and removed it but the problem continued.

Not having a television or radio in the house I panicked and went back to the person I bought it from. He took it in and did whatever he did and it was fixed. While there I noticed the twin and asked if he would sell it to me. He said yes but first he needed to clean it for me because it had been used in his business. He also added bells and whistles whatever those are. I got the spare for just in case.

Not long ago I wanted to send a music video to the blog (I did once before but somebody did it for me). So I ask my computer-tech guy how to. When he got to embed and cut and paste, “I” basically left the building. I also went on line and asked how to send video to blog.
The answer in computer lexicon caused me to go see Landou Eugene Murphy Jr sing Frank Sinatra on America’s Got Talent.

Lately and I ask my computer guy about it but in the morning the computer is slow going on line. About 3-7 seconds slower than it use to. He said to check the wires. Then he gave me a wire and said just in case. I asked about the modem and he said he could deal with that too.

Notepad I’m sure there is one but I’ve never seen it.

Anyway, guess what? I’m enjoying what little I know but most of all, I have a spare computer which means there’s a glorious heaven.

Thank you very much for your concern and instructions.

65. Arthur - October 2, 2011

All my posts disappeared and reappeared. Now I know what Tim Campion meant when he said, “glad your thoughts were perserved”.

Shirley yours might show up too.

Yes sir’ree bobby burton!

66. WhaleRider - October 2, 2011

someone:
“I wonder what would become of the 23-30 steady prisoners who are posting here…?”

Ah yes, prisoners…of our own device or someone else’s?

“There is not much difference in the degree of captivity if one is possessed by another person through blind admiration or through blind hatred. In both cases it is deep mind captivity.”

I have often wondered what would become of burton flopping around at the bottom of a drained victim pool. I suppose I am held captive by the notion.

I hate predatory behavior.

What’s the problem with that?

And, yes, captivity is appropriate for people with chronic, unresolvable predatory behavior.

As long as you keep posting, someone, I have hope for you. Keep up the good work!

67. For the record - October 2, 2011

Re: the comments about “someone.”

The word “hatred” (as in “blind hatred”) could be that poster’s projection of their own feelings.

I’ve never really thought of it this way, but if I were still “in” the Fellowship of Friends, or still sympathetic with it in certain ways as “someone” seems to be, thenit would be really hard to read all of this stuff. I think secretly there may be a desire by the poster called “someone” for all of this to “just go away” so that they can take a break from it. They keep hoping that one day they’ll look for the blog site on the internet, but it will be all gone, poof. Big sigh of relief. Back to business as usual. Cognitive dissonance will resolve into blissful ignorance.

But no. There you are again, Whalerider. There you are again Ames. There you are again Tim. There you are again Golden Veil. If you people keep this up, my illusion just can’t quite remain intact. I hate all of you. Let me go back to sleep…

… please.

68. rich - October 2, 2011

1. 479164 18:05 16.08.11
2. 479235 18:43 16.08.11 av 112.10 per hour
3. 492770 11:13 04.09.11 av 31.33 per hour
4. 495560 08:41 08.09.11 av 29.76
5. 497256 11:35 10.09.11 av 33.38
6. 497947 18:02 11.09.11 av 22.65
7. 498376 15:06 12.09.11 av 20.42
8. 498934 10:56 13.09.11 av 27.90
9. 499487 11:43 14.09.11 av 22.31
10.499913 08:42 15.09.11 av 20.28
11.500790 11:13 16.09.11 av 38.97
12.502071 09:23 20.09.11 av 27.84
13.503577 18:02 22.09.11 av 26.60
14.504711 17:19 24.09.11 av 23.82
15.509296 20:36 02.09.11 av 23.48
These are averages per hour of blog hits.
From this data the highest days were both
on the 16th of the month . However ,I’d
be making a mistake to conclude that
lunar cycles were the cause . A lot
more data is needed.
Many thanks to all . Some of these
entires have virtually reduced me to
tears. Heartfelt.

69. rich - October 2, 2011

Sorry sp. entires should read entries.

70. nigel - October 2, 2011

A bit confused by the ‘flying every way’ posts recently. Thought I would bring in some Shakespeare…..

Henry IV, Part 1…..

Prince Hal (soon to become Henry V – V being victory over falsehood)

” I know you all, and will awhile uphold
The unyoked humour of your idleness.
Yet herein will I imitate the sun,
Who doth permit the base contagious clouds
To smother up his beauty from the world,
That when he please again to be himself,
Being wanted, he may be more wondered at
By breaking through the foul and ugly mists
Of vapours that did seem to strangle him.
If all the year were playing holidays,
To sport would be as tedious as to work;
But when they seldom come, they wished-for come,
And nothing pleaseth but rare accidents.
So, when this loose behaviour I throw off
And pay the debt I never promisèd,
By how much better than my word I am,
By so much shall I falsify men’s hopes;
And like bright metal on a sullen ground,
My reformation, glitt’ring o’er my fault,
Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes
Than that which hath no foil to set it off.
I’ll so offend to make offence a skill,
Redeeming time when men think least I will.”

71. Tempus Fugit - October 2, 2011

44. Someone – October 1, 2011
I wonder what would become of the 23-30 steady prisoners who are posting here and what will they do with their reminiscences once the FoF ceases to exist. What would they do with their lives then?
After the big leaving in 2006-2009, the number of members remained steadier and in 2011 the balance between those who left and those who joined is almost balanced.
It seems like the FoF had somewhat survived the storm. I’m not sure about some ex-members who are still in RB’s captivity and are still slaves to his existence.
There is not much difference in the degree of captivity if one is possessed by another person through blind admiration or through blind hatred. In both cases it is deep mind captivity.

“Someone” raises a serious point. Hatred may create attachment without leading to resolution.

At the same time expressing hatred toward an abuser may be a healthy part of recovery from abuse, and one function of this forum (from my reading) is to allow the expression of these appropriate feelings.

So when I hear people expressing hatred or anger towards Burton or the FOF I support them, while also hoping they move forward with their recovery and don’t get stuck.

One of the great lies in Fellowship dogma is the deprecation and repression of negative emotions. Anger is a healthy feeling. Anger tells us we have been mistreated, and energizes us to defend ourselves.

The Fellowship, I believe quoting Gurdjieff or Ouspensky, equated expression of negative emotions with unconsciousness. This is a convenient tool to repress dissent in a cult, but not a healthy attitude for an adult.

Maturity invites us to be thoughtful and careful about how we handle this powerful energy, but does not prohibit its expression in certain circumstances. (Believe me, I’ve had to learn this lesson the hard way and still make many mistakes.)

My main purpose in joining this blog is to warn others about Burton and his cult. Why is it that so many former members feel angry or hateful? Read this blog and you will find out. Hopefully the understanding you gain will help you free yourself before it is too late.

Burton is one of the most hateful human beings I have ever met.

How much hate does it take to deceive and sexually abuse young men who trust that you are guarding their very souls?

How much hate does it take to order people to abandon their friends and families?

How much hate does it take to dismiss the lives of the entire human race as meaningless (except your own and the select few you choose to name)?

Burton has stated he is above life. In my opinion the truth is exactly opposite.

72. Renald - October 2, 2011

re. 71 .- Tempus Fugit.
There is enough misunderstanding in this post to keep me in rebuttal material for the next four or five years. However I will exercise through sheer force of will the control necessary to avoid going there since it would likely not be useful to anyone.
I will answer your three questions:
How much hate does it take to deceive and sexually abuse young men who trust that you are guarding their very souls? None.

How much hate does it take to order people to abandon their friends and families? None.

How much hate does it take to dismiss the lives of the entire human race as meaningless (except your own and the select few you choose to name)? None.

73. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 2, 2011

PROGRAMMING THE NATION?
Are we all brainwashed? Or have we lost our minds?
A film by Jell Warrick

“…PROGRAMMING THE NATION? is profoundly disturbing, as ambitious as it is provocative.
…an examination of the various ways and techniques media, government and industry influence the way people eat, think and behave.”
— Kevin Thomas, Los Angeles Times

Director, Jeff Warrick, leads this documentary journey through the subconscious mind while exploring the alleged usage of subliminal messaging in advertising, music, film, television, anti-theft devices, political propaganda, military psychological operations, and advanced weapons development, to determine if such tactics have succeeded in “PROGRAMMING THE NATION?”
http://www.programmingthenation.com/

74. For the record - October 3, 2011

71. Tempus Fugit

What you wrote resonates with me. Cult dogma, when you look more closely at it, can be hateful. It’s just disguised with a smile and a calm voice.

The FOF has many things in common with other cults, including an erosion of basic human qualities of respect and compassion. When you start seeing people as being supposedly inferior, it’s an emotional slippery slope. It also makes it a lot easier to feel justified in trying to exert power over them, manipulate them, do harm to them, and discard them.

75. Agent 45 - October 3, 2011

From the Director, A.M.B.
“True self-expression does not necessarily imply irreverence for others; true criticism does not necessarily imply hostility or separateness.”

76. Arthur - October 3, 2011

I think it was Gurdjieff who said there were sins hard to redress, and I think the Bible said sins against the Holy Spirit are unforgiveable.

I think “those who are without sin throw the first stone” refers to minor missteps.

So sins hard to redress and unforgiveable sins will send you back to the world of ants?

Anybody know what the Holy Spirit is? Or, sins that are hard to redress?

Has Robert E. Burton blasphemied against the Holy Spirit?

What sin is taking straight men into a realm of sex they did not wish to go?

Robert E. Burton if you are guilty of any of these ‘super sins’ alleged against you be prepared to change roles. Now you are a goddess in man’s body later you will be a ‘worker’ serving food to the queen of the hive.

As for me, I’m changing a Bibical quote. From “Father forgive them for they do not know what they do” to Father forgive me for when did I ever know”?

77. Ames Gilbert - October 3, 2011

Someone (#114-44 or thereabouts),
you needn’t worry. As you well know, my aim is to help “drain the victim pool”, and I have posted many times to support this aim. And, as you well know, searches on the lines of, “Fellowship of Friends/Pathway to Presence/Living Presence/Being Present.org / Church of Robert Earl Burton” usually bring up the current page of this blog at some point. So, speaking only for myself, I think it best to contribute my viewpoint fairly regularly, and at the same time, I try hard not to repeat myself too much; I’m always looking for fresh ways to present the same basic message of warning.

You think that the regular contributors are somehow prisoners, obviously I disagree. You have your opinion, and, unlike Burton’s followers in the Fellowship, you have the freedom to express it. I happen to think I am free to come to this blog, go, or stay awhile, as I wish. I certainly don’t commit to stay until ‘the end’, but if the Fellowship does terminate, and/or Burton shuffles off this mortal coil, I assure you that I can put the few minutes every now and then I have invested in this forum to another worthwhile use, and I’ll not miss posting here one bit. The job will have been done, and that’s that.

Someone, you’ve never given me reason to believe that you really care a damn about any of us as persons. I think you’re just filling in some time, projecting a kind of vapid negativity that alleviates some discomfort for you, and it’s pointless.
Just my opinion.

78. Wondering Who’s Watching - October 3, 2011

Numb3rs
Season 4, Episode 16: Atomic No. 33 [Arsenic]
Original Air Date – 2 May 2008 42:16:
A mass poisoning at a cult compound leads the FBI team into a maze of old grudges and a complex murder plot.
Larry finds himself fighting his own bigotry when he assists Don and Charlie’s investigation into the poisoning of cult members.
Don and the team must investigate a religious cult after scores of followers are poisoned.
http://www.videobb.com/watch_video.php?v=7lNPQodcGVYN

Some quotes:
* Minister: All seven seals of the apocalypse were shattered when Germany invaded Poland in 1939. Hitler delivered Lucifer into the world. It’s documented. They were given authority over a quarter of the Earth. . . To kill with sword, famine, plague, and by means of beasts of the earth. What beasts of the earth kills more than man himself? [Mass murder scene follows.]

* Not everyone has the emotional and intellectual resource to search for God in a supercollider.

* Oh boy, that’s the fourth security camera we passed since they buzzed us through the gate.
Extremist in Orwellian paranoia as well as stunted religious beliefs.

at 35:44:
* It’s no easy thing, I’ll tell you; separating the ugliness of your dogma from the sincerity of your faith.

* We all pray to our unique altars don’t we?

* I think of religion as a really good police force, you know; keeps 90% of the people honest, and then we worry about the other 10.

Some other good dialog.

* * * * * *

The ones that appear most innocent are the ones most guilty; regardless of confession(s).

Does REB have tasters to sample his food before he eats it to be sure someone is not trying to poison him?

79. WhaleRider - October 3, 2011

Renald:

I HATE liver. Yuck!

Ever since I was a kid I couldn’t stand the taste of it.

No matter how my parents cooked it, for they happen to love liver, or extolled to me at length about the vitamin content, I could not get past the first revolting bite.

Notwithstanding the fatty organ is a toxic sponge for a lifetime of chemical exposure, the very smell of cooked liver would make me gag and feel sick to my stomach.

Even to this day I won’t even attempt to eat it, given the fact that I am also a vegetarian.

I hate, hate, hate, liver.

80. Ames Gilbert - October 3, 2011

Renald (#114-72 or thereabouts),
it’s a great comfort to know you could clear up all Tempus Fugit’s misunderstandings if you so chose.

Personally, when I read this post, I took the word ‘hate’ as a sort of shorthand, and felt that I ‘sorta’ understood where he was coming from, ‘sorta’ being as close as I can come to understanding the words of a perfect stranger given their physical absence (without aids like body language, context, history and so on to help out).
I don’t want to leap too far into the realms of ‘pop psychology’, but Burton apparently has a few ‘things’ sexually that most people, by the standards of our society, would class as ‘abnormal’. His quest for orgasms is insatiable. As his orifices are continually filled by a succession of dicks, he claims that he is in essence a woman in a man’s body. He needs to make heterosexual males submit to him sexually using psychological force, and in large quantities. He has, to put it mildly, no use for women who cannot provide him with wealth or power or other advantages; he is a noted misogynist.

Some explanations for this ‘abnormal’ behavior have been presented. His mother abused him, perhaps sexually. I’d have to go back in my notes, but I think I remember him saying she dressed him up in girl’s clothes. Whatever happened, most people would agree he is sexually wounded, that his sex energy runs through some unconventional channels, and ‘pop psychology’ might postulate that he seeks revenge in some way, to hurt the universe he perceives as having hurt him. This is just another story, of course, just like the ‘Law of Attraction’ is a story, stories being a common way of explaining the universe (but they are just guides, not to be confused with the real thing . . .) So my point is that I understood the word ‘hate’ to be representing some of the above, a shorthand for Burton getting his revenge on the universe, and from that viewpoint, the word fits admirably.

81. Renald - October 3, 2011

Re. 80 .- Ames Gilbert – Like I said, it wouldn`t be easy. Better to let people stew in their own chosen oils. I can always open a window from time to time to let some fresh air in when the stench gets unbearable. After all the contrast serves people well.
In medio stat virtus, but it makes for a dull blog. I`ll only say one thing about hatred and I don`t have much shorthand skill any more;
Anyone who hates, feels hatred, day after day, cannot last very long on this planet in a living form, never mind 40 years; the suffering would be unbearable.

82. Golden Veil - October 3, 2011

A small evangelical Christian community (cult) is thrown off balance when one of their own, Corrine (Vera Farmiga), begins to question her faith.

“We are waging a battle here for your soul… we want you in Heaven.”

83. Tim Campion - October 3, 2011

82. Golden Veil

Thanks. I look forward to seeing this. Farmiga is a remarkable actor.

84. nigel - October 3, 2011

…..Google-ing ‘sex and cults’…..

Because of its liberal attitude to sex, the Family International, has been baptised ‘the sex cult’ by the Western media. But the group insists it is a religious movement living according to the law of love. They talked to Esther Namugoji and Henry Lubega.

The Family International has been baptised ‘the sex cult’ by the media in the West, chiefly because of its liberal attitude toward sex. It has issues with the ‘cult’ label. They identify themselves as a new religious movement and insist that they live according to the law of love.

ABC: Former Children of God Member Seeks Revenge. Others still refer to it as a child sex cult, although the group asserts that any sexual incidents between adults and children were isolated and that since 1987, any sexual contact with minors has been an excommunicable offence.

Founded 40 years ago, by David Brandt Berg (Moses David or Mo), the movement has traded names from ‘The Children of God’ to ‘The Family of Love’ and then ‘The Family International’ or simply ‘The Family’. The group spread over 100 countries, living in communal homes where everything is shared, including sex. Although Berg died in 1994, the group continues under the leadership of his wife Karen Zerby (Mama Maria).

ABC: Former Children of God Member Seeks Revenge. A book published last year by three former second generation members has revived interest in the Family. Not Without My Sister tells the story of Celeste and Kristina Jones and Juliana Buhring who were separated from their father, mothers and one another at the whim of Family leadership. They were switched from home to home, finding and then losing each other in a confusing maze they had no control over.

The authors of the book tell of being raised in communal homes, according to the strange decrees of Berg. Berg, known to adult members as Dad and Grandpa to the children, ruled through letters called Mo Letters. Rules included memorising Bible verses, a lot of housework, witnessing in the streets to win converts.

Begging for food is one of the things they found difficult. There were sessions for outings and playtime and school time, according to a Family-created home education system. Failure to obey elders or any perceived insubordination almost always resulted in severe corporal punishment and labour, or sessions reading Mo Letters and Bible verses. Celeste also tells of being locked up in solitary confinement as one of the extreme punishments meted on teenage children seen to have a rebellious spirit.

The official Family position is that a few individuals misused their authority and misapplied the law of love.

Many of the publications in which Berg glorified sex were destroyed in what was called the ‘Pubs Purge’ and new rules instituted. Sexual sharing among adults, however, is one of the things that the Family still permits.

85. James McLemore - October 3, 2011

Renald a few days ago you said.

“… in other words keeping so busy that there is no time for anything negative. If you have to, fake it. The idea is to build a preferred habit, one that will lead to joy and replace the old worn out one.”

It appears to me that “reprogramming” (for lack of better name) can indeed produce some temporary results. The repeating of affirmations, or other self-help methods or therapies can in some instances temporarily reduce the effects of certain types of psychological suffering.
However, it does not feel to me that true self-discovery lies in this direction; a direction that seems to be so filled with the same self-judgement as it is supposedly trying to fix. Perhaps there is no need to pick a fight with what arises in the mind.
Something much, much more inclusive seems indicated.

The Guest House

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.

Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

~ Rumi ~

86. sherza - October 3, 2011

@114-71. Tempus Fugit
You’re right on the mark; you hit the bullseye.

87. Renald - October 3, 2011

re. – 85 – James McLemore “ It appears to me that “reprogramming” (for lack of better name) can indeed produce some temporary results. The repeating of affirmations, or other self-help methods or therapies can in some instances temporarily reduce the effects of certain types of psychological suffering.“
The context is one of someone wanting to switch from one habit to another. One can use meditation in order to distract oneself from the unwanted types of thought. This only takes a matter of minutes, I suspect 6 minutes as being the very most which is useful. This causes an emotion called relief to manifest. From there it is possible to engage in behaviour (usually conscious thinking and conscious action such as going for a walk in the woods, watching a movie that you already know makes you feel good, or any such trigger which was experienced in the past). The idea is that in this preferred mood it is easy enough to progress towards emotions which I would call `higher` or which come closer to that of joy or love. The reason for wanting to go there is not merely because these feel better although that is a good enough reason. The reason, which you mention at the end of your post, is that the mind, the thoughts which are received, will then be of a different nature. The thoughts will be inspirational. This is what the artists or the mystics seek. The reason they are inspired is because access to all that is in the form of memories figure into the equation, something that intellectually is not possible. It would be like keeping up with the multi-mega bites of a super computer. Then the only thing left and this is easy then because of an emotion called knowledge, is to act on those inspirations. It is easy because when one `knows` at that level, the every day arguments pale in comparison to the point of being ridiculous. I guess this is what is so often called `being conscious`, but I don`t know because nobody has ever explained to me exactly what they meant by it. It is not necessary to wrap this up in religious terms although that can be easily done for those who need it.
I am sorry if my way of presenting my thoughts sounds like selling.
I am sorry if this post causes anyone any problem.
I hope my post as always is helpful and that includes helping anyone to measure the usefulness or uselessness of letting someone else do the thinking like it happens in cults.
.

88. Renald - October 3, 2011

Excerpt from Rumi`s `The Guest House`:

“The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.“

Sure, if you can. Do you think Abraham G. was laughing as he slipped the noose around his neck?
Maybe WR has met someone like that, since there is a likelihood that such a person would be locked up for their own protection (?).
In some societies, I have heard, the crazy people are revered as saints. Maybe they are right.

89. Arthur - October 3, 2011

“Be grateful for whoever comes,because each has been sent as a guide from beyond”….Rumi

Sounds connected to …”entertaining angels unawares”….somewhere in the Bible.

Wonder what it would be like entertaining an angel in awareness?

Speechless no doubt.

90. Renald - October 3, 2011

re 88 Arthur – Rumi is speaking about emotions. He is saying that the emotions are our guidance system.

91. Tempus Fugit - October 4, 2011

Thanks to all of you who have responded to my posts, including my most recent one.

I’d like to clarify where I’m coming from so you will have a better chance of understanding me. As Ames Gilbert pointed out (post #80), internet communication can be tricky so I’m trying to express myself as accurately as possible. If I fail at that please be generous in your thinking of me and I will give you the same courtesy.

As I’ve noted in previous posts, anything I say here is my opinion only, based on my experience of the FOF. If you disagree or have a different experience that’s fine and I would like to hear about it.

Renald, in post #72 you disagreed with what I wrote rather bluntly without explaining why. You sounded angry. Perhaps I misunderstood your tone. I would like to understand your point of view so please share it. I would also like my interactions with you and others to be civil; I think that’s essential.

Ames Gilbert, I found your post (#80), to be helpful and thought provoking. I have observed Burton’s behavior in the long ago past, but can’t claim to know what he was actually thinking or feeling. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say I found his behavior hateful, whatever he was thinking or feeling.

In my opinion Robert Burton is a false teacher and the FOF is a false teaching, and I base that opinion on the discord I observed between his statements about himself and his actual behavior.

92. Arthur - October 4, 2011

Renald (90),

I was reacting to “guide from beyond” and brought in the angels of our better nature.

The Bible did say, entertaining angels unawares.

Maybe those angels are esoteric “emotions”?

Where’s Nigel when you need him?

93. James McLemore - October 4, 2011

“One can use meditation in order to distract oneself from the unwanted types of thought. This only takes a matter of minutes, I suspect 6 minutes as being the very most which is useful.”

“This is what the artists or the mystics seek. The reason they are inspired is because access to all that is in the form of memories figure into the equation,…”

Renald – Do you just make this stuff up?

94. Renald - October 4, 2011

re 91 Arthur – Yes, maybe those emotions are esoteric angels.

re 90 Tempus Fugit – “ Renald, in post #72 you disagreed with what I wrote rather bluntly without explaining why. You sounded angry. Perhaps I misunderstood your tone. I would like to understand your point of view so please share it. I would also like my interactions with you and others to be civil; I think that’s essential.“

I am not nor was I angry. Your post actually was tantalizing and I stated so. I have already posted tons of stuff related to my take on emotions and it has not been well received for the most part. I agree that this blog may not be the best place for this type of discussion so I chose not to go into it. It seems to be a rather touchy topic. I am quite ready to answer and explain my answers elsewhere. I suggest going through the Greater Fellowship site in order to send me your email address. That way your privacy would be ensured.
Civilly yours, Renald Brisson aka Ron and/or Ronnie

95. fofblogmoderator - October 4, 2011

#86 is new

96. Tim Campion - October 4, 2011

For those referring readers to posts on previous pages of the blog, it may be helpful to include in your comment a live link to that older post.

This is easy to do:

1. Hover your cursor over the DATE of the older post
2. RIGHT CLICK on your mouse or pointing device
3. Select COPY LINK LOCATION
4. Return to your current post
5. Place the “cursor” where you want the link to go
6. RIGHT CLICK
7. Select PASTE

Of course, the same will work on this page, however, if the order changes on this page (such as when a post is released from moderation), it may direct your link to an unintended post.

(Instructions are for Windows-based systems. Don’t ask me about Macs.)

97. nigel - October 4, 2011

92 Arthur

This poem was written about one of my psychotic episodes and therefore needs the reader to try to ‘rise emotionally to the occasion’. There are references to angels since I verified C-influence in the FOF and still do now…..Nigel.

A certain interpretive difference
Awaits the twice-born.
Whitman’s heaven and hell
Give way to the first’s glory.

Litter picking/placing and decoding
Delights self and humanity.
From former form absorbed, transposed
And Earth’s imperfection more than satisfies.

Nothing goes away;
Neither poverty, hardship nor necessity.
All hangs ,deliberately placed
By angels beyond the screen.

The sun’s crime overcome,
He returns from sweeping the universe
To its limit in crashing waves,
That tell of the new Eternity.

(nhp) 1993

98. nigel - October 4, 2011

A little poem about REB, mainly…..

I wish I could teach you pencils;
Why a broken lead through broken times,
Indicates a feeble essence:
Something to do with diamond theory.

Pressure and fire are the test of reality
Proving that pressure and fire are the making of a human being.

(nhp) 1995

99. nigel - October 4, 2011

To Seeing

Like some rambling Rembrant
Unbrushed and dispainted
Characters of faces
Smash gently into…..
Pure vision
Pure harmony
Pure light in the
Mastered darkness

nhp 2009

100. nigel - October 4, 2011

Many of us wonder and maybe are afraid of death – here is Walt Whitman’s take on it…..Nigel

“I know I am deathless,
I know this orbit of mine cannot be swept by a carpenter’s compass,
I know I shall not pass like a child’s carlacue cut with a burnt stick at night. “

101. Just the Facts Ma'am - October 4, 2011

Found on The Fellowship of Friends Investigation Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?djindjin&1
Entry #205. JOHN ESAM
Missing US$40,000 possibly more out of John’s estate. He died ill and destitute on 24th June 2011. The Fellowship took control of his savings and his pension money and gifted it back to themselves. Theft/fraud/deceit/corecion/duress etc. When will law authorities enforce criminal charges against this cult?How many more people must be robbed and coerced by this cult? Also they write fraudulent Wills and Power of Attorney documents. The Fellowship attorney – David Springfield is definitely dodgy.

102. nigel - October 4, 2011

…..found on Google…..

(about Burton)…..

delusions of grandeur – a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are.

delusion, psychotic belief – (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary.

megalomania – a psychological state characterized by delusions of grandeur.

103. Tempus Fugit - October 4, 2011

To:
“86. sherza – October 3, 2011
@114-71. Tempus Fugit

You’re right on the mark; you hit the bullseye.”

Thank you for the support; I would be interested to hear more of your thinking. Please consider posting further.

To:
“94. Renald – October 3, 2011
I am not nor was I angry. Your post actually was tantalizing and I stated so. I have already posted tons of stuff related to my take on emotions and it has not been well received for the most part. I agree that this blog may not be the best place for this type of discussion so I chose not to go into it. It seems to be a rather touchy topic. I am quite ready to answer and explain my answers elsewhere. I suggest going through the Greater Fellowship site in order to send me your email address. That way your privacy would be ensured.
Civilly yours, Renald Brisson aka Ron and/or Ronnie”

Thanks for the clarifications of your position and the invitation to talk directly. I am aware of the Greater Fellowship site but not ready to join at this time. Perhaps we will have that conversation later.

To:
All of you.

Every day I encounter my fellow human beings and in them I see myself. A great global drama is unfolding as people struggle for freedom, peace, and social welfare.

In my opinion we have free will. Why not choose to work for the common good? It doesn’t have to be grand – I don’t believe I’ve done a grand thing in my life. But every day I can do a little good for someone.

What strange disease causes a man or woman to look at their fellows and only see “machines” to be exploited?

104. WhaleRider - October 4, 2011

renald:
“Do you think Abraham G. was laughing as he slipped the noose around his neck?”

I don’t think Mr Goldman was laughing as he hung himself, quite the opposite in fact. That’s exactly the point.

If a person spends their whole live avoiding “negative” feelings like sadness, despair and depression, those feelings eventually catch up with them and are therefore, in many cases, overwhelming.

“Maybe WR has met someone like that, since there is a likelihood that such a person would be locked up for their own protection (?).”

People who can laugh about suicide, or murder for that matter, as in “if he tells that same joke one more time, I’m going to put a gun to my head or cut his head off with an axe”…those people usually aren’t locked up.

It’s the people who are serious about it; who have lost their sense of humor; they need protection from hurting themselves or others.

“In some societies, I have heard, the crazy people are revered as saints. Maybe they are right.”

Yes, there was a point in time when society didn’t warehouse people with mental illnesses and were more tolerated by the general population.

People with a severe thought disorder such as full blown schizophrenia (who also happen to be very sensitive and artistic people and who might be constantly talking endless gibberish to themselves) may at times sound quite poetic, in such a way that, IMO we may glean some saintly wisdom out of the word salad.

Even though you might be impressed that the village idiot could occasionally come up with something sounding so profound, you still didn’t necessarily feel inspired enough to invite them home for supper.

If one took the time and energy to enter into their delusional system, much of what they are talking to themselves about can be interpreted as their symbolic way of communicating to themselves and about others, too. (Although people don’t usually recover from schizophrenia, the disease can go into remission for long periods of time. Although with help, people can recover from psychosis.)

I recently saw Hertzog’s recent film called “The Cave of Dreams”, about newly discovered cave paintings in France.

Now unlike Lascaux, this was a cave that apparently wasn’t ever lived in except by cave bears, but it contained extensive cave paintings that were much older than the Lascaux ones.

I know this may sound odd, but the repetitive and very detailed quality of the drawing reminded me of artwork I’ve seen done by people with schizophrenia.

We’d like to imagine it was some artistic Rembrandt cave person who took time out from hunting and gathering to retire to his or her meditative cave temple and indulge in some spiritual and artistic creativity, but it is just as likely in my mind that this was the cave were the crazy schizophrenic cave person lived who didn’t seem to want to get along with other cave people and probably felt more kinship with all the animals he or she obsessively painted all over the walls of his or her asylum cell.

Thank you for your post.

105. nigel - October 4, 2011

104. WhaleRider

This is the sort of message that I would have wanted to post, but refrained from, due to folks thinking I was indulging in ‘past misery’. I was somehow aware that WR could read my thoughts (no, honestly, I hardly ever, anymore, get that paranoid)…..

Lovely informative post, WhaleRider…..Nigel.

106. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 4, 2011

Page 114/10. Associated Press:

‘AMY GOODMAN [Host, Journalist]: Talk about high school graduation [at age 18].

MICHAEL MOORE: Well, yes, so I started to say that I was in line for graduation, and boys had to wear a tie under their gowns. So, this vice-principal is going down the line, checking under everybody’s gown to make sure they have a tie on, and this kid in front of me; the assistant principal stops and he says, ‘Where is your tie?’ He [the boy] says, ‘I have a tie.’ And, he had one of those string ties.

AMY GOODMAN: Bolero.

MICHAEL MOORE: Bolero, yes, yes. And he [the boy] says, ‘This is a tie.’ And he [vice-principal] said, ‘This is not a tie.’ He yanks the kid, physically, takes him out of the line and says, ‘You’re not graduating.’ He was going, ‘But, Mr. Ryan.’ He [Mr. Ryan] says, ‘Out!’ He just takes the kid out to the door, and that was it. Twelve years of going to school and the kid couldn’t graduate because he had on the wrong kind of tie. But, the real thing that bothered me about that, wasn’t so much what Mr. Ryan did to this student.

AMY GOODMAN: He didn’t graduate?

MICHAEL MOORE: He did not graduate, that’s right, that’s right. But, that I stood there, and I had just been elected five days earlier to the board of education. [18 year olds recently were allowed to vote (July 1, 1971 – Twenty-sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution) and hold elected office and Michael Moore stood for election to his local board of education in order to get this vice-principal fired for beating students with a board. He won the seat.] I stood there and said nothing. I and all the other students. Nobody said anything. Nobody objected. And I was so bothered by that. And then I heard from the boy’s mother the next day and she called me crying, and she said, ‘Why didn’t you say anything?’ I said, ‘I was still a student.’ She said, ‘But you’re also on the school board.’ And I thought, wow, this is the way it usually is. I really – I probably – I didn’t want to risk me not being able to graduate. So I turned the other way. I didn’t want to stick out my neck because it might get chopped off. And that’s really how we’re trained. I mean, we’re trained from an early age, the system, the society, the schools, whatever, that wants to make sure that we don’t upset the applecart too much. I felt so bad about myself after that and I said to myself, that’s the last time you’re going to remain silent; you see somebody being picked on like that, you see something that’s wrong, just wrong, you have to say something no matter what. So, at 18 years old, it had a real – but, don’t you think, though, in our lives, it’s sometimes those small things, those little incidents that really have profound implications for us in terms of how we are formed and how we, sort of, decide to live? When you’re born, you didn’t come out of your mother on the day you were born and say, ‘I will someday host a show called, DEMOCRACY NOW!.’ Although, you may have, I don’t know. I shouldn’t say that. But, you were formed – you were formed by the experiences you had, things that you saw, things that bothered your conscience, and you became who you became as a result of that. I think we’re all like that, and I think we all have stories to tell. . . .’

What a story from the formative times of Michael Moore.

So, here is a story on this theme. As you can see from my avatar, I am wearing a graduation gown where I am sporting a tie under the gown. Oh! Aren’t I a good student? Well, this was called into question. And, contributed to my departure from the Fellowship of Friends (FoF), Pathway to Presence, Living Presence, BeingPresent.org, Church of Robert Earl Burton. There were other reasons as well.

It was one of those hot 100’+ type days in Oregon House, CA, and I was going to a performance at the concert hall (Town Hall, Prytaneion). I was walking maybe about a half mile or more to get there. So, I did not wear my tie and jacket (required attire for men at such events), but carried them. Also, I was wearing a shirt that was a dark colour and the tie was of similar dark colour. When I arrived at Prytaneion, I put on the tie before entering and was carrying my jacket. The Prytaneion was at standing room only capacity for the event.

Well, Robert Earl Burton (REB) saw me and he apparently could not see the tie that had the same colour as my shirt. At intermission, someone was assigned, by REB, to ‘photograph’ me for coming to the event without a tie and jacket. By then, evening began to fall, I had cooled down, and I had the tie and jacket on. I pointed out that I was dressed appropriately. What happened after the ‘photographer’ reported back to the master, I do not know, but, the next day, I got a call and was told that I could not attend these events in the future unless I was dressed correctly. ‘Could I dress correctly?’ So, I said, ‘Yes, I was dressed with tie and jacket.’ That just added one more straw to the load on the camel’s back. (And, it was not a camel hair jacket (a one-time favoured sport jacket in FoF)) that I was wearing. So, I decided it was time to graduate.

[Do you remember this FoF aphorism:
‘If the shoe does not fit, wear it anyway.’
Well, in this case:
‘If the foo does sh!t, no need to wear it.’]

* * * * * *

Walt Whitman
Song of the Open Road

Afoot and light-hearted,
I take to the open road,
Healthy, free, the world before me,
The long brown path before me,
leading wherever I choose.

Henceforth I ask not good-fortune –
I myself am good fortune;
Henceforth I whimper no more,
postpone no more, need nothing,
Strong and content, I travel the open road.

The earth – that is sufficient;
I do not want the constellations any nearer;
I know they are very well where they are;
I know they suffice for those who belong to them.

. . .

You road I enter upon and look around!
I believe you are not all that is here;
I believe that much unseen is also here.

Here the profound lesson of reception,
neither preference or denial;

. . .

You air that serves me with breath to speak!
You objects that call from diffusion my meanings,
and give them shape!
You light that wraps me and all things
in delicate equable showers!
You paths worn in the irregular hollows
by the roadsides!
I think you are latent with unseen existences –
you are so dear to me.

. . .

O highway I travel! O public road!
do you say to me, ‘Do not leave me?’
Do you say, ‘Venture not?
If you leave me, you are lost?’
Do you say, ‘I am already prepared –
I am well-beaten and undenied – adhere to me?’

. . .

From this hour, freedom!
From this hour I ordain myself
loos’d of limits and imaginary lines,
Going where I list,
my own master,
total and absolute,
Listening to others,
and considering well what they say,
Pausing, searching, receiving, contemplating,
Gently, but with undeniable will,
divesting myself of the holds that would hold me.

. . .

Whoever denies me, it shall not trouble me;
Whoever accepts me, he or she
shall be blessed, and shall bless me.

Now if a thousand perfect men
were to appear, it would not amaze me;
Now if a thousand beautiful forms of women
appear’d, it would not astonish me.

Now I see the secret
of the making of the best persons,
It is to grow in the open air,
and to eat and sleep with the earth.

Here a great personal deed has room;
A great deed seizes upon the hearts
of the whole race of men,
Its effusion of strength and will
overwhelms law,
and mocks all authority
and all argument against it.

Here is the test of wisdom;
Wisdom is not finally tested in schools;
Wisdom cannot be pass’d from one having it,
to another not having it;
Wisdom is of the Soul,
is not susceptible of proof,
is its own proof,
Applies to all stages
and objects
and qualities,
and is content,
Is the certainty
of the reality
and immortality
of things,
and the excellence
of things;
Something there is in the float
of the sight of things
that provokes it out of the Soul.

Now I reëxamine philosophies and religions,
They may prove well in lecture-rooms,
yet not prove at all under the spacious clouds,
and along the landscape and flowing currents.

Here is realization;
Here is a man tallied –
he realizes here what he has in him;
The past, the future, majesty, love –
if they are vacant of you, you are vacant of them.

. . .

Here is the efflux of the Soul;
The efflux of the Soul
comes from within,
through embower’d gates,
ever provoking questions:

. . .

The efflux of the Soul is happiness –
here is happiness;
I think it pervades the open air,
waiting at all times;
Now it flows unto us –
we are rightly charged.

. . .

Be not discouraged – keep on –
there are divine things, well envelop’d;
I swear to you there are divine things
more beautiful than words can tell.

Allons! we must not stop here!
However sweet these laid-up stores –
however convenient this dwelling,
we cannot remain here;
However shelter’d this port,
and however calm these waters,
we must not anchor here;
However welcome the hospitality
that surrounds us,
we are permitted to receive it but a little while.

. . .

Allons! with power, liberty, the earth, the elements!
Health, defiance, gayety, self-esteem, curiosity;
Allons! from all formules!
From your formules,
O bat-eyed and materialistic priests!

. . .

I and mine do not convince by arguments,
similes, rhymes;
We convince by our presence.

. . .

To gather the minds of men
out of their brains as you encounter them –
to gather the love out of their hearts,
To take your lovers on the road with you,
for all that you leave them behind you,
To know the universe itself as a road –
as many roads – as roads for traveling souls.

The Soul travels;
The body does not travel as much as the soul;
The body has just as great a work as the soul,
and parts away at last for the journeys of the soul.

All parts away for the progress of souls;
All religion, all solid things, arts, governments, –
all that was
or is apparent
upon this globe
or any globe,
falls into niches
and corners
before the procession of Souls
along the grand roads of the universe.

Of the progress of the souls
of men and women
along the grand roads of the universe,
all other progress
is the needed emblem and sustenance.

Forever alive, forever forward,
Stately, solemn, sad,
withdrawn, baffled, mad,
turbulent, feeble, dissatisfied,
Desperate, proud, fond,
sick, accepted by men, rejected by men,
They go! they go!
I know that they go,
but I know not where they go;
But I know that they go toward the best –
toward something great.

Allons! whoever you are! come forth!
You must not stay sleeping
and dallying there in the house,
though you built it,
or though it has been built for you.

Allons! out of the dark confinement!
It is useless to protest –
I know all, and expose it.

Behold, through you as bad as the rest,
Through the laughter, dancing,
dining, supping, of people,
Inside of dresses and ornaments,
inside of those wash’d and trimm’d faces,
Behold a secret silent loathing and despair.

No husband, no wife, no friend,
trusted to hear the confession;
Another self, a duplicate of every one,
skulking and hiding it goes,
Formless and wordless
through the streets of the cities,
polite and bland in the parlors,
In the cars of rail-roads,
in steamboats,
in the public assembly,
Home to the houses of men and women,
at the table, in the bed-room, everywhere,
Smartly attired,
countenance smiling,
form upright,
death under the breast-bones,
hell under the skull-bones,
Under the broadcloth and gloves,
under the ribbons and artificial flowers,
Keeping fair with the customs,
speaking not a syllable of itself,
Speaking of anything else, but never of itself.

Allons! through struggles and wars!
The goal that was named cannot be countermanded.

Have the past struggles succeeded?
What has succeeded?
your self?
your nation?
nature?
Now understand me well –
It is provided in the essence of things,
that from any fruition of success,
no matter what,
shall come forth something
to make a greater struggle necessary.

My call is the call of battle –
I nourish active rebellion;
He going with me must go well arm’d;
He going with me goes often with spare diet,
poverty, angry enemies, desertions.

Allons! the road is before us!
It is safe –
I have tried it –
my own feet have tried it well.

Allons! be not detain’d!
Let the paper remain on the desk unwritten,
and the book on the shelf unopen’d!
Let the tools remain in the workshop!
let the money remain unearn’d!
Let the school stand!
mind not the cry of the teacher!
Let the preacher preach in his pulpit!

let the lawyer plead in the court,
and the judge expound the law.

Mon enfant! I give you my hand!
I give you my love,
more precious than money,
I give you myself,
before preaching or law;
Will you give me yourself?
will you come travel with me?
Shall we stick by each other as long as we live?

* * * * * *

‘And that is the beauty of this path – this blog. It is neutral – a tabula rasa. It is free for anyone to stamp their impression, in which ever way one chooses. There are those who will tell you not to – you yourself may hesitate out of fear of what might emerge from within you, but once you decide to step forth and take to the open road, you are the master of your destiny, wherever the brown path leads.’
Page 14/311 on 08 Jul 2007 at 12:36 am Steven A

‘I always wondered what that Walt Whitman line really meant:
“Afoot and light-hearted I take to the open road. Healthy, free, the world before me…”
It wasn’t until after I left the FOF that I really understood.
Good luck for your travels ahead.’
Page 51/129. spoonful – September 26, 2008

* * * * * *

Get out now!, while you still can.

107. Arthur - October 4, 2011

nigel (98) Whalerider (104) and WYLTK (107),

Nigel, you and Walt Whitman have verified what I can only be wishful about. Thanks for the poems.

Whalerider, I recently saw a documentry about “evolution” and how we supposedly evolve from nature over billions of years.

If it’s true humans evolved from nature then maybe those ancient cave drawings were leaving a message as in, “this is where we came from, and that “I” can draw is where we are going”?

And supposedly we have “perfected poets” indicating the road forward to the next “transfer station” but if we loose the direction then,
the Bible as intrepreted, most of us will disappear under a mushroom cloud in the city of Jeursalem?

WYLTK,

That was appreciated.

108. rock that boat - October 4, 2011

BRAVO Tempus!

Every day I encounter my fellow human beings and in them I see myself. A great global drama is unfolding as people struggle for freedom, peace, and social welfare.

In my opinion we have free will. Why not choose to work for the common good? It doesn’t have to be grand – I don’t believe I’ve done a grand thing in my life. But every day I can do a little good for someone.

What strange disease causes a man or woman to look at their fellows and only see “machines” to be exploited?

Over the past 2/3 weeks we have had 3 big planets Saturn, Mars, and Uranus hovering over earth They are in opposition to each other. Last time such a similar alignment happened was in the 60s or early 70s. Saturn represents conservative thinking and conventional behavior, Uranus represents that which is new and innovative.

The times are right for drastic changes, it almost feels like its now or never…the energy, guts and drive should be there….
One just needs to take the plunge folks …then set your Self free

1. Uranus is known in astrology as the “Awakener,” since its aspects and transits bring sudden changes and shocks.
It rules Aquarius, the quirky innovator, and sometimes these upheavals are a necessary break
from restrictions in favor of a more liberated path.

2. Saturn offers insights into areas of life where you’ll likely face your most intense internal battles on the way to self-confidence. Saturn’s lessons require you to persevere through trials and to build toward mastery step by step. It is the reality bites planet.

3. Mars gives us energy, strong will, independence and self confidence. Mars is like the volcano of vitality inside you that must be released and channeled, if not you feel like a racing car in a traffic jam. Mars needs a mission, and can stir up serious trouble when repressed or deceived. When Mars is in conflict with other planets, (as it is now with Saturn and Uranus) there could be struggle with anger issues and in extreme cases, violent behavior.

By the 14th the planetary picture eases into ‘normal’

109. silentpurr - October 4, 2011

i think i’m the Uranian type.

110. Renald - October 4, 2011

Re. 104 – WhaleRider – “ If a person spends their whole live avoiding “negative” feelings like sadness, despair and depression, those feelings eventually catch up with them and are therefore, in many cases, overwhelming. “

Explain to me how a person can “avoid “ feelings of rage,anger, depression, despair, powerlessness, other than through the use of mind `enhancing` drugs. I do not advocate trying it either and for that matter to be fair it was always made clear to me in the fof that the non-expression of negativety exercise or task was not about repression.
The drugs are meant to offer a patient relief, at least originally.
That is another emotion and one which is higher up the scale.
It gives the person an opportunity to step by step regain his balance, his sanity (health). All too often though the drugs are administered with a diagnosis which labels and robs the patient of his power still again, just like in a cult.
What I have advocated ad nauseum is that when someone decides that they no longer want to wallow in negative states that it is possible to work one`s way out of what has become a habit or even a physical addiction to them. Of course if the belief that they suffer from an incurable disease is pounded into them enough they will become programmed to those thoughts and it then becomes pretty difficult to convince them that their belief is erroneous. It is hard enough to get people to try to deviate from previously accepted beliefs, to open their minds to other possibilities in ordinary life, ie. politics, religion, education (?), and so on.
Convincing people of their utter powerlessness is giving them a premature death sentence usually with a whole lot of suffering on the way. The suffering is the body`s way to warn us that we are going in the wrong direction to get to where we want to go, meaning to acquire what we want and what is rightfully ours.

111. jbalance - October 5, 2011

Remember those dinners when we listened to Asaf and Robert talking to each other, not understanding what the heck they were saying, and staring at our food on the plates, inner considering when we took a bite, for the cost of $150.

112. WhaleRider - October 5, 2011

Renald:
Thank you for posting. You are doing great.

“Explain to me how a person can “avoid “ feelings of rage, anger, depression, despair, powerlessness…”

(You added a few emotions I didn’t mention.)

This avoidance happens all the time. Your viewpoint about addictions is very pertinent here.

People avoid feeling their feelings (or disassociate from them) by seeking the cozy or busy trance state that their favorite addiction predictably causes, like an alcoholic or workaholic does.

We also can dissociate from our bodies and from physical pain in a simple trance state.

I never bought into the idea that the “non-expression” of negative emotions was anything but the actual repression of negative emotions, despite the fourth way spin on the process.

There is ample evidence suggesting that the repression of negative emotions can cause mental and physical illness; there isn’t much, if any, evidence to suggest that the “non-expression and transformation” of negative emotions is either even feasible or healthy.

That’s not to say we are powerless over our feelings if we surrender to them; and by surrendering to our feelings neither do we make them worse, although it may seem that way at first.

Am I saying one ought not to repress feelings of rage and go out and crash your car? No.

The task we all face is to find appropriate ways and means to channel our feelings of anger, rage, sadness, depression despair, or joy in a manner that empowers us instead of diminish us, rather than repress them or assign them to others around us.

113. Tempus Fugit - October 5, 2011

“108. rock that boat – October 4, 2011
BRAVO Tempus!”

Thanks for the compliment! I’m glad you enjoyed what I wrote. I enjoy and benefit from yours and everyone’s heartfelt posts here. I sincerely wish I had time to respond to each poster individually.

“106. Wouldnt You Like To Know – October 4, 2011”

Walt Whitman, my favorite poet. And he became my favorite poet when I was young and he was recommended by Burton as a conscious being.

I read the words you quoted and was thrilled and always have been by Whitman’s grand, all encompassing vision of the eternal nature of the human soul – everyone’s human soul.

How sad in those young days I could not see the contradiction between Whitman’s open declaration of human spiritual equality and Burton’s declaration of human spiritual inequality.

In “Song of Myself,” Whitman said, “And whoever walks a furlong without sympathy walks to his own funeral drest in his shroud.”

In my opinion the FOF is a spiritual desert, Burton is spiritually dead, and if you are in the Fellowship you are living in a graveyard.

114. Shelley Mitchell - October 5, 2011

Greetings!

I’m almost finished reading a book called INSIDE SCIENT0L0GY by Rolling Stone journalist, Janet Reitman. A beautifully written and well documented account of the expansion of L. Ron Hubbard’s empire along with his madness. It parallels the expansion of the FOF and captures the zeitgeist of the 70s and 80s. Needless to say it’s a must read for anyone grappling with their experience in the FOF.

#106 Wouldn’t You Like to Know
Loved your story. Priceless.

Love to you all,

115. Just the Facts Ma'am - October 5, 2011

This is a long post. It was inspired by the silentpurr post quoted.

Very little appears in print on the subject of Uranian and Neptunian types on the enneagram, from Rodney Collin, and as taught in FoF – enneagram essence types – as compares with the perhaps more popular enneagram nine personality types.

* * * * * *

109. silentpurr – October 4, 2011
‘i think i’m the Uranian type.’

Better think twice, or more times, or long thoughts, about that:

I wrote this back in 2010 but did not publish to the FoFblog till now:

94/209. reader – July 9, 2010

‘Sure, there are positive applications to a lot of ideas. Absolutely. But those same ideas can be used (and are used in the FOF) for something negative — for example, to discourage dissent and encourage self-doubt. Stiff resistance is no surprise. It’s a one of the sacred cows.’

94/210. reader – July 9, 2010
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sacred_cow:
sacred cow
Something which cannot be tampered with, or criticized, for fear of public outcry. A person, institution, belief system, etc. which, for no reason other than the demands of established social etiquette or popular opinion, should be accorded respect or reverence, and not touched, handled or examined too closely.’

Robert Earl Burton (REB), and dogma that flows from that fount, is sacred cow.

‘dung da dung dung DUNG!’
[to quote Page113/#141. Ill Never Tell]

sacred cow patties:

six for the sequence

four for the imperishable breaths

two for the itty-bitty children (higher centers)

one for the goddess/angel in a man’s body*.

* From WickedPedophile (actually, WikiPedia search on ‘Uranian’):

Uranian is a nineteenth century term that referred to a person of a third sex — originally, someone with “a female psyche in a male body” who is sexually attracted to men, and later. . .

The term also gained currency among a group that studied Classics and dabbled in pederastic** poetry from the 1870s to the 1930s. . .

The word itself alludes to Plato’s Symposium, a discussion on Eros (love). In this dialog, Pausanias distinguishes between two types of love, symbolised by two different accounts of the birth of Aphrodite, the goddess of love. In one, she was born of Uranus (the heavens), a birth in which “the female has no part”. This Uranian Aphrodite is associated with a noble love for male youths. . .’

** From WickedPedophile (actually, WikiPedia search on ‘pederastic’):

‘Pederasty. . .is a (usually erotic) relationship between an older man and an adolescent boy outside his immediate family. The word pederasty derives from Greek (paiderastia) “love of children” or “love of boys”. . .’

REB is a Uranian type – crystallised there. One of the chief characteristics of this type is to base nearly all actions in their lives on satisfying their sexual desires. On the way to transcending the primary types on the enneagram and arriving at the Neptunian type (type associated with regeneration/pineal gland), one must pass through the test of transcending sexuality; which REB has failed, IMHO. (Your anus (Uranus), or your penis, is all I’m interested in. – Get the picture? Might kiss you on the forehead shortly after having kissed who knows what parts of an anatomy?)

* * * * * *

From The Theory of Celestial Influence:
Man, The Universe, and Cosmic Mystery
[‘MAGISTRO MEO QUI SOL FUIT EST ET ERIT SYSTEMATIS NOSTRI DICATUM’
Loosely translated:
‘This is dedicated to our Sun and Solar System which is our teacher.’]
by Rodney Collin:
http://bit.ly/mYJlnh

Chapter 10: Man as Microcosm; II. Types: Endocrine and Astrological:

‘When we come to the gonads or sex-glands, which occupy the same position on our spiral as Uranus does in the Solar System, we can now understand why their role has given rise to so much confusion. For every other gland affects sex, lends sex its colour, and tries to pass itself off as sex. In order to be understood in its purity, sex must be separated from the venusian sensuality of the parathyroids, from the martial passion of the adrenals, from the maternal affection of the posterior pituitary, and from the saturnine masterfulness of the anterior lobe. Sex must be something different from all these and more fundamental. It must be connected with the ultimate principle of two sexes, and their joint power of creation. And it will include all the deepest emotions which arise from this interaction, and which, besides children of the body, give rise to music, poetry, the arts, and the whole aspiration of man to create in emulation of his Maker.

The last gland upon our spiral, as Neptune is the last major planet in the sky, is the mysterious pineal body, buried at the focal point of the brain and connected with man’s most delicate psychic systems. Alone among the glands, it is single rather than double in form, and from this old physiologists and psychologists, Descartes, for example, deduced that it was the place where unity or equilibrium was achieved, and that it was the ultimate seat of the soul. In Leonardo da Vinci’s phrase, it was the organ of ‘common sense’, that is, of a sense common to all functions and beings, and which would reveal their oneness. . .’

Chapter 11: Man in Time; I. The Slowing Down of Human Time:

‘while the completion of a cycle of Uranus more or less coincides with the ninth milestone, or death.’ [Uranus occupies the 9th (or zeroth) place at apex (zenith) of enneagram.]

Chapter 18: The Cycles of Crime, Healing and Conquest; III. Saturn and Conquest:

‘This is the cycle of sex, ruled by the planet Uranus.’

Chapter 19: The Cycle of Sex; I. Fashion: The Masculine and Feminine Phases of Uranus, II. The Psychology of Sex, III. Sex and the Quest for Perfection:

[Whole chapter is worth reading.]

‘If we now turn to a study of the planet Uranus itself, we find a very curious astronomical parallel to this state of affairs. Unlike all the other planets, whose axes lie more or less at right angles to the plane of the Solar System, and which thus present chiefly their equators to the Sun and to their fellows, the axis of Uranus lies almost flat upon the plane of its orbit. This means that, alone of all the planets, it presents its two poles in turn directly to the Sun and to the Earth. Every eighty-four years its positive pole, illuminated by the full solar brilliance, shines vertically upon the Earth while its negative pole lies hidden and in darkness: in the intermediate periods it is the negative pole which so directly reflects the Sun’s light towards us, and the positive which lies obscured in the direction of outer space.

If the positive and negative poles of planets have some cosmic affinity for masculinity and femininity in general, then we can understand why Uranus – by reason of its unique movement – is the planet which governs the sex function in man, and further, why the alternating stimulation of the two sexes on Earth follows the eighty-four year rhythm which we clearly see in history.

Both sexes are always present and always of exactly equal strength, as are any two poles; but among humankind, as with the poles of Uranus, the light of fashion shines first upon the one and then upon the other, leaving at each phase the partner invisible and eclipsed. Today femininity is spotlighted; in forty-two years masculinity will be at its zenith; and in eighty-four femininity again. While in the intermediate years – as when the two poles of Uranus share the Sun’s light – the two sexes must shine for a short while with equal brilliance.

We have taken our illustrations from fashion, because this is the clearest mirror of the sexual ideas of a people or a period. Costume is, as it were, the natural artistic expression of sex. And the dress of every age, and indeed of every individual, is an exact signature of his sexuality, his feelings and ideas about sex. In this way everyone, without exception, publicly expresses his sexual self.’

‘. . .many individuals, by lucky accident as it were, achieve their highest level of consciousness in sex: and through sex acquire their first intimation of its potential development.’

‘For them the chief thing to be understood about sex is that it should be the highest creative function, resulting in the harmonizing of all other functions whether in the creation of children in the physical image of their parents, in the creation of the arts, or simply in the creation of the individual’s true role in life. Unfortunately, in many people, far from harmonizing other functions, sex obstructs them, interferes with them, prevents them carrying out their proper task.

It must be remembered that sexual energy is the finest energy normally produced and conducted through the human body. This means that it is also the most volatile, the most difficult to store or keep under control. Like a supply of high octane petrol, its presence represents both a source of immense power and potentiality, and also a constant danger of catastrophic explosion. At any moment it may leak into the mechanism of other functions, and like such petrol leaking into a heating system or into a storeroom, suddenly give rise to flareup fires which in a few seconds can destroy long-accumulated stocks of other materials and even damage the basic structure of the building.

Usually, however, these violent and destructive manifestations of sexual energy are directly or indirectly traceable to a negative attitude towards sex in general – that is, to suspicion of it, fear of it, or to a cynical, brutal or obscene sense of sex. For such negative attitudes prevent sex from finding its proper and natural expression and force its energy into channels and functions for which it is far too strong.

This may result in violent, pointless and clumsy activity, often leading to physical accident and destruction. Or in bursts of passionate anger; or in bitter and wounding repartee; or in feverish imagination; or in violent denunciations of others, or the imposition of impossible tasks and disciplines upon them. All these and countless other unpleasant aspects of human behaviour result from sexual energy being forced into systems appropriate to the much coarser energies required for thought, action or instinct. Passing through these systems, sexual energy resembles electric current passing through a wire too small to carry it – the wire first becomes hot, and in the end may fuse altogether.

Those who emotionally understand the idea of sex as the force which harmonizes all other functions, and who manage to live their life in accordance with this understanding, although they obviously cannot be entirely free of the unpleasant manifestations described above, will never be dominated by them in the same way. In any case they will never justify such violence, or pretend that it can have any useful function, for they will realize its origin and its nature.

Sex can become a destructive instead of an integrating element in man’s life in two ways – it may play too large a part, or too small a part. . .’

‘Thus for every individual sex brings a foretaste of death, and a foretaste of perfect life. In the words of the parable, it is his ‘talent’ given him by nature, and from which he can make anything which his being desires. In this way sex provides a universal test or examination of every human being, and by his use of it he determines his future possibilities.’

So, again, I say:
REB is a Uranian type – crystallised there. One of the chief characteristics of this type is to base nearly all actions in their lives on satisfying their sexual desires. On the way to transcending the primary types on the enneagram and arriving at the Neptunian type (type associated with regeneration/pineal gland), one must pass through the test of transcending sexuality; which REB has failed, IMHO. (Your anus (Uranus), or your penis, is all I’m interested in. – Get the picture? Might kiss you on the forehead shortly after having kissed who knows what parts of an anatomy?)

* * * * * *

So, in FoF, Uranian type and Neptunian type were absent, for the most part. Uranian type, like Sex center, would not be discussed. Inevitably it would lead to discovering the hidden fact that FoF was a sex cult and the leader’s life style would be open to all sorts of scrutiny as Emperor’s New Clothes. People just could not address the fact of the elephant in the room – if you get my drift.

Neptunian type was mentioned briefly in FoF literature in the Via Del Sol Journal, Volume 1, Number 42, July 11, 1972, Body Type Edition, and, later, in the Body Type Journal publication. Mostly these refer to Rodney Collin’s writings on the subject.

116. Arthur - October 5, 2011

Just the Facts Ma’am (116),

I remember those chapters.

I also remember that somebody (Ouspensky ?) said that deformity of the gonads is serious. It never was explained what deformity meant.

I vaguely remember that an Indian Guru said that the male ejaculate is the “creme” of something, or maybe Robert E. Burton said that.

So I never did find out what it meant for a female or male’s ‘spiritual’ journey if they were “sterile” or seedless?

Sterility is either connected to genetics or deformed ductworks.

But it still doesnt answer the question about the seriousness of deformity vis-a-vis “on the road to spiritual enlightment”?

117. Renald - October 5, 2011

Re. 112 – WhaleRider – Let`s twist again like we did last summer!
Then let`s go from the theoretical to the practical.
Let`s say that I have slipped down the emotional slope for most of my life and now find myself in deep depression contemplating ending it all.
“ The task we all face is to find appropriate ways and means to channel our feelings of anger, rage, sadness, depression despair, or joy in a manner that empowers us instead of diminish us, rather than repress them or assign them to others around us.“

What exactly are the appropriate ways and means to channel my feelings? At this point I have given up on everything. I could no longer care less about living a drug induced semi-slumber.

Or maybe the only thought that keeps circulating in my mind day in and day out is the picture of burton rotting in jail under the worst possible conditions possible or even better to see myself executing him with a bit of torture thrown in for good measure. Years later my frustration grows because I hear that he is still enjoying his pleasures like he always did. Now I get even more furious, to the point that I feel quite sick. Oh right! Now where was I? Oh yes I must look for an appropriate channel. The F word comes to mind. I have punched the wall so many times that my wrists are broken. I guess I should give it up and let depression take me over. Nope, I am a tough guy, my dad told me so, and I never give up. Bam!

Freud and Jung are history. Maslow has always been ignored. Pharmaceuticals are self-serving. Now they are medicating the school kids.
A new model is long overdue, but then again that would require getting rid of thought addictions, counter-productive belief systems that we struggled so hard in universities to remember. Where is the incentive for that one? Ah, what the heck, I never cared much for lawyers anyways.

118. Renald - October 5, 2011

re 116 – Arthur – Nice to see your sense of humor is alive and well.

119. Golden Veil - October 5, 2011

117. Renald

“What exactly are the appropriate ways and means to channel my feelings? At this point I have given up on everything. I could no longer care less about living a drug induced semi-slumber.”

WhaleRider may have very different ideas; here are some from
me… hopefully some will resonate!

Spend time outdoors, do photography, camp, trek, hike

Read and write, journal, poetry, memoir, novel, screen play

Watch movies in a film club, discuss or write reviews

Listen to music, write songs or compose music

Cook, create new dishes, take a class, make food for friends

Arts and crafts ~ painting, drawing, collage, clay, assemblage

Garden, plant edible garden patch, or one for beauty and scent

Volunteer to help others ~ a nice social opportunity, as well…

try Habitat for Humanity, the local library, Big brother or sister, etc.

Walk, run, exercise, sports, yoga, dance class, hike

Meditation ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Church, temple, spiritual study

Re-connect with friends, neighbors, and relatives that were

neglected while you were cloistered in the Fellowship of Friends.

Read and write on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion Blog.

Attend your choice of an online and/or face-to-face recovery meeting

Start a 12 Step Program or another method to work on yourself

See a therapist

Nurture a love relationship with someone

Find new friends and activities ~ a source: http://www.meetup.com

120. Golden Veil - October 5, 2011

112. WhaleRider

“The task we all face is to find appropriate ways and means to channel our feelings of anger, rage, sadness, depression despair, or joy in a manner that empowers us instead of diminish us, rather than repress them or assign them to others around us.”

It is necessary to feel rather than to repress or channel difficult emotions in order to not have them take over for years.
Just feel them and then let them go… release them.

Feelings of grief are especially important to process… usually by crying; give yourself the chance to grieve rather than continuing to avoid or repress intense sadness. Grief must be felt fully in order to move beyond it and LIVE.

Feelings about anger, and rage ~ you can go somewhere private and scream or get one of those bat things and beat the hell out of your sofa or something. Processing negative feelings is important!

It can be helpful to write painful events down in detail; and if you can, include a statement that you forgive the one that hurt you, write that down too, and then burn it. This is a technique that helps to release recurring negative thoughts about past experiences.

121. silentpurr - October 5, 2011

Renald, be thankful.

122. Arthur - October 5, 2011

Renald (118),

I forgot or wasnt paying attention about when and how you developed your ‘ways’ of handling whatever you and Whalerider are discussing.

Try me one more time how you came about developing this “new method”. Teaching and informing me might help all those who are here reading.

And dont use complicated language. After all we are already confused. Or, should I say I am already confused.

123. Arthur - October 5, 2011

I get it now:

Somebody said, “and this too shall pass”. And somebody else said, “what goes around comes around”.

The physical universe has to have balancing opposites.

Yin/Yang

Yes/No

Joy/Sadness/

Light/Dark

So if you are enraged, sad, depressed, lonely, anxious or any of the other negative emotions (own them) because if you dont die in the meantime they will turn into their opposities.

“The obivious is that which is never seen, until someone expresses it simply”…Gibran

124. Renald - October 5, 2011

re 119 – Golden Veil –
My 117 re the WR 112 was a theoretical question. Your list of activities sound great to me, however they wouldn`t be of the slightest interest to someone in a deep depression. It would be like inviting someone with an acute migraine to go to a symphony concert.
I don`t want to go any further with this now as I don`t want to repeat myself when WR responds to my post.(117)

re 121 silentpurr—–Thank you. I am so thankful for your quick and thorough response to the theoretical question I addressed to WR.
If there is one thing a deeply depressed person cannot do it is to be thankful. They are in a totally different world.

re – 122 – Arthur – I am not so sure at this point if WhaleRider and I are discussing or pondering anything yet. My guess is that at best we are going to the same place from the same place and maybe using a different route or maybe just using different descriptions of the scenery along a same or similar way. Time will tell.

125. nigel - October 5, 2011

Lots of posts about negative/positive outlooks…..

Christianity (mainly) talks of the fact that we were created in a negative role (Original Sin) – don’t know too much about Islam, Hinduism and Zen, for instance…..

But the Celts believe we come from a positive source…..

I have said many times and will again…..

“If you cannot find a life momentum that brings you the core-joy, you should find a new occupation/job/pastime that brings you That Joy, so that you can put up with all the Crap that Life Flings at You”…..Nigel

126. For the record - October 6, 2011

Speaking to Stanford grads in 2005:

“Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do.

“If you haven’t found it yet, keep looking. Don’t settle. As with all matters of the heart, you’ll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on.”

Steve Jobs
1955-2011

127. Shirley - October 6, 2011

125 Nigel

Buddhism (of which Zen is a part) and Taoism do not have the concept of a Creator. There is no God as Christians understand it, no big daddy in the sky to say you’re good or bad. In the absence of Christian sin, or its opposite – good works that will get you to heaven “up there” – what guides human behavior? I think for Buddhists, rebirth and karma – with their implications for avoiding a bad subsequent life – are incentives. In Taoism, the ego is minimized.

128. Arthur - October 6, 2011

This is not what I was looking for but it’s getting there.

We’re talking sex–energy and creativity. In the same ‘vein’ as Just the Facts, ma’am (116) indicated with their post.

It’s from Ayurveda a system of ancient physical/spiritual medical practice. Could have Buddhist and Hindu traces. It’s Indian at least.

“The seman or reproductive tissue (the Ayurvedic concept includes both male and female reproductive tissues) is the ESSENCE (caps mine) of all the dhatus, the CREAM of all the tissue-elements in the body. It contains the power to create life. This means not only the capacity to bring a new life into existence, to create a child, but also to renew one’s own life, to return our cells to the vigor of youth. That same life-creating energy, if directed inwards, can aid in the renewal of both body and mind”..

To be continued? Maybe not.

129. For the record - October 6, 2011

“Martha Marcy May Marlene”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/12/martha-marcy-may-marlene-durkin-interview_n_958336.html

“She was with these people, so she obviously trusted them. You go into one of these groups with your personality, and they break you down to a child-like state, they strip you of your self and they re-program you. So when you go, you know something’s wrong, so you’re stuck in this in between, so there has to be things that were good there and kept you there, and things in this new world that you can’t adapt to.”

130. Shirley - October 6, 2011

128 Arthur

“That same life-creating energy, if directed inwards, can aid in the renewal of both body and mind”..

Taoist internal alchemy has a similar concept, about transforming and refining different energies, starting with what you call ‘essence’.

131. WhaleRider - October 6, 2011

renald:

“Then let`s go from the theoretical to the practical. Let`s say that I have slipped down the emotional slope for most of my life and now find myself in deep depression contemplating ending it all.”

I am confused by your post. Exactly who are we talking about here?

Are you saying that you are that depressed..or would you like to continue to discuss something hypothetical or theoretical?

OK, theoretically speaking, yes a person could be as depressed as you describe, and yes, I could play the game of me making suggestions like Golden Veil so he or she cold say no, that won’t work for me, no I tried that and failed…etc…and then we would have just spun further in the endless loop you think we are already in.

If your aim is to have no aim, who am I to stop you?

But I am not going to play that game with you. It’s a losing proposition.

If I am going to play any game, I play to win and have fun.

And if I am going to play a game like this with you, it will have to be a win-win situation, or not at all.

I will point out in the hypothetical situation you described some key factors:

Old style anti-depressants are mostly tranquilizers, and new SRI anti-depressants many people find stimulating, which helps them have the energy to get back into life and feel less inhibited to speak their mind, relieving some of the internal pressure they are under.

IMO, both are more useful in short-term crisis management and less in the long-term. IMO, reliance upon any drug to cope with unresolved issues does not resolve them.

So, the notion of “living in a drug induced semi-slumber” doesn’t really hold true.

The sadistic fantasy of “burton rotting in jail”, or “seeing yourself executing him with a bit of torture”, or “bam” shooting him in the heart with a silver bullet, is just that, a sadistic fantasy. It goes nowhere, unless you are a psychopath without a conscience and would derive even more pleasure from acting upon it….so that doesn’t hold true either.

The next step of this hypothetical person feeling frustrated and angry because burton “is still enjoying his pleasures like he always did” speaks volumes to me.

What would motivate such a person to feel this way? Jealousy of burton, perhaps? Is that what you are suggesting? …wanting to be a guru like him?

Or could a person, that is, with a conscience, feel morally outraged that a clever socipath has managed to successfully exploit the gap between church and state and want to take appropriate action to raise consciousness, thus preventing others from being harmed?

You say, “Freud and Jung are history. Maslow is ignored…”

Sounds a bit dismissive, IMO

My friend, we would not be on this blog if we had followed the example of these great men instead of following the likes of burton.

BTW, the blog is a public discussion, and I’d like to keep it that way.

132. Golden Veil - October 6, 2011

124. Renald

Although I quoted WhaleRider, my post No. 120 regarding the importance of feeling / processing emotions was for you as well.
As for the long list in No. 119, you may shake a stick at it, but
there are some real gems in there for depression… especially exercise! That alone can naturally increase seratonin, dopamine,
and endorphins, and thereby elevate your mood and change the color of the lenses through which you experience the world. For depression and recurring suicidal thoughts, engagement is better than isolation.

By the way, I once heard an interview with a doctor who was at
the time, the director of the U.C.L.A. Department of Psychiatry.
He too asserted that psychiatric medications are appropriate for
short term rather than long term use.

133. Arthur - October 6, 2011

Shirley (131),

Most of my ‘esoteric books’ are dust covered. And my memory is not all that good. But sometimes it remembers things long forgotton.

Just the Facts, Ma’am (116) stirred up the cob-webs in the attic.

In one of the Colin, Ouspensky or ‘In The Work’ newsletters it was said that deformity of the sex was a hinderance of some kind (memory problem). I remember supra sex and infra (?) sex. Somewhere in all this Robert E. Burton is shackled by unnatural sex.

Now what are they talking about sex being deformed and a hindrance ? Is it the lack of internal chemistry that leads to refinement, the machinery not producing essential creams? Maybe sex-energy is produced in the forehead gland–just guessing?

I dont want to mention by name but a former poster said that “sex cells are produced” internally and not necessarily expelled.

So with out the facts ma’am I am perplexed.

134. nigel - October 6, 2011

The American poet, Alice Duer Miller, came to England as World War Two broke out, married an Englishman (John), who was killed when he went off to fight and she mothered his child. The poetry book, ‘The White Cliffs’, is a beautiful expounding of scenes, feelings about people, love and patriotism. Thoroughly recommended…..

“The English love their country with a love
Steady, and simple, wordless, dignified;
I think it sets their patriotism above
All others. We Americans have pride—
We glory in our country’s short romance.
We boast of it and love it. Frenchmen when
The ultimate menace comes, will die for France
Logically as they lived. But Englishmen
Will serve day after day, obey the law,
And do dull tasks that keep a nation strong.
Once I remember in London how I saw
Pale shabby people standing in a long
Line in the twilight and the misty rain
To pay their tax. I then saw England plain.”

135. surelyujest - October 6, 2011

116 Arthur

Maybe you have heard this saying: don’t believe everything you read. Just because something appears in print, doesn’t make it true. A lot of us have been fooled that way. A few of us still haven’t figured it out.

The 4th Way is a good example of something that seems plausible, without enough evidence to make it probable.

We were told to verify everything, but if we really took that seriously, we would have quit a long time ago. Almost every idea presented by the 4th Way is unverifiable in the normal sense of the word. In fact, the “verify everything” command is a very clever cult-indoctrinating device. It lowers your defenses, because on some level you believe that by saying “you shouldn’t believe this, you should verify it” then the ideas CAN BE verified — and very soon you figure, why bother, it must be true, or why else would Gurdjieff or anybody else say that. It’s a brilliant scam.

Long ago, if someone had told me that I had lost all my possibilities, I would have been terrified and devastated. Now I would just think, how could you possibly know that?

There is no secret group of men that know the secrets to life and the universe, and there never has been. But acting like you “know” can give you some serious rewards in terms of power and money, if you know how to pull it off. Fortunately those psychopaths are fairly rare. We were unfortunate enough to run into one. And we are still picking up the pieces.

136. Arthur - October 6, 2011

Surelyujest (136),

I understand your meaning.

My concern is the ‘apparent’ divergent sources, Gurdjieffian, Zen, Ayurveda and even Christian (something about seeds and the belly of the whore-means something but what?).

I’m not losing any sleep over it, the subject just peaked my curiousity. It’s like whoa there is, there it is again, should have taken notes. That kind of thing.

For me that subject is interesting.

But without any knowledge at all a ‘regular’ person can hear the stories about Robert E. Burton and think, “oh my God, not me”.

137. For the record - October 6, 2011

135. surelyujest

You just summarized it as well as anyone has. I really like your post, and wish I had a friend like you when I was in the FOF, and after I left.

You mentioned cult-indoctrination devices. Part of that is the use of diagrams and numbers and words such as “system” and “way” — in addition to throwing in some ideas that are fairly universal and therefore attractive to many people, such as being present to your life. It’s well-written fiction, with some non-fiction thrown in to keep people interested.

You wrote: “And we are still picking up the pieces.”

Based on the reviews I’ve read and the trailers I’ve seen, this is one of the main themes of the movie “Martha Marcy May Marlene.”

Here’s another link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1441326/

And an excerpt from a review: “This film is just simply unmissable. It is deeply unsettling throughout, and one of the few films that succeed in making the audience deeply uncomfortable. I usually find myself shifting in my seat from boredom. Here, I was shifting just because of how quietly terrified and incredibly disgusted I was with what was going on on-screen. It is a moody piece, but one that sticks with you and scares you more every time you talk and think about it. And it is that feeling, that earnest inner torment that keeps bringing me back and appreciating it more and more.

Durkin brilliantly frames the film in a similar vein to Memento, jumping back and forth between Martha at her sister’s cottage in the present and her life in the cult in the past. He weaves in and out of the timelines with care, never once confusing the audience. We simply watch as Martha tries to get on with her life, but keeps finding things that remind her of moments she spent in the cult. He frames the story entirely around her, allowing her unreliability to throw the story into off-putting and disturbing directions. I found myself simply stunned by some of the unbelievable things that occur without warning. Nothing too horrific physically happens, but Durkin makes the implications of what is even more so.”

138. Ames Gilbert - October 6, 2011

For the record (#114-126 or thereabouts),
thanks for the quotes. Here’s more context for those words from this mere asleep, doomed ‘life person’, spoken at the same time:

Remembering that I’ll be dead soon is the most important tool I’ve ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything – all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure – these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.

Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice.
Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven’t found it yet, keep looking. Don’t settle. As with all matters of the heart, you’ll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don’t settle.

Steve Jobs, 2005

139. For the record - October 6, 2011

Thanks, Ames.

“Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice.”

140. silentpurr - October 6, 2011

Renald, In being brief I was trying to make a point. I have found that feeling ‘thankful’ and ‘thinking of others’ to greatly help in lifting the mood.
After FOF graduation, a sensitivity for detecting methods of “selling god”, can grow more acute and possibly more accurate. there is an enticment about “The Law of Attraction”, The Secret”, Scientology, What the Fellowship Morphed into. They seem to share a commonality of being in the business of selling methods for “getting something”.
– I know you don’t like lumping your favorite in with the others, but they all lead down the same bumpy road… or is it up?

141. Renald - October 6, 2011

See what I meant Arthur? There was no discussion. That was just an illusion, a false hope.
Re. 131 – WhaleRider – “ The sadistic fantasy of “burton rotting in jail”, or “seeing yourself executing him with a bit of torture”, or “bam” shooting him in the heart with a silver bullet, is just that, a sadistic fantasy “
Seems to me that I have read plenty of posts over the last four years or so expressing exactly this desire of wanting to see burton rotting in jail. It was never mine. I always am looking for a better solution to the problem of making a change.
WR, I was describing a hypothetical case and you know it. Further you speak about a sadistic fantasy, quote, “ or “bam” shooting him in the heart with a silver bullet, is just that, a sadistic fantasy.
Here is what I had written: “ I have punched the wall so many times that my wrists are broken. I guess I should give it up and let depression take me over. Nope, I am a tough guy, my dad told me so, and I never give up. Bam!“
Where does it say that I imagined this imaginary person shooting burton in the heart with a silver bullet? In YOUR sadistic fantasy .
The Bam! was clearly the frustrated person hitting the wall yet again.

I respectfully surrender my wish to take part in a cooperative search for answers with you.

142. Renald - October 6, 2011

re. 140 – silentpurr “ – I know you don’t like lumping your favorite in with the others, but they all lead down the same bumpy road… or is it up?“
That`s for you to figure out if you are interested and always was as far as I am concerned. It was a pleasure conversing with such knowledgeable company. Maybe I will do it again someday. For the most part it has been fun.

143. Shirley - October 6, 2011

133 Arthur

I don’t relate to the supra/infra-sex terms; I probably never really have. They seem to categorize without helping me to understand a world of subtleties. Talking about RB’s world of power plays (as one woman more or less described it, “the more hetero the men are, the more RB seems to get pleasure from having his way with them”, and we can assume, he gets his way with many of them), and talking about certain Eastern disciplines that work with different energies in the body, are two very different topics. They only seem to be related. But one is about attempted transmutation work; and the other is about power over a never ending source of young, hetero men who are persuaded (goddess? cufflinks?) to let their bodies be used.

144. Golden Veil - October 6, 2011

143. Shirley

“Talking about RB’s world of power plays (as one woman more or less described it, “the more hetero the men are, the more RB seems to get pleasure from having his way with them”, and we can assume, he gets his way with many of them)…”

To whom it may concern… considering even just this one aspect of The Fellowship of Friends Teacher, a so-called “Man no. 8” … isn’t it enough to make you want to leave? Yuck!

145. Agent 45 - October 7, 2011

To: The Director
Does this mean it’s ok to be irreverent or hostile?
Yours Truly

146. nigel - October 7, 2011

“ONE” by Mary J Blige…..

Is it getting better
Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you now?
You got someone to blame

You say one love, one life (one life)
It’s one need in the night
One love (one love), get to share it
Leaves you darling, if you don’t care for it

Did I disappoint you?
Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
You act like you never had love
And you want me to go without

Well it’s too late, tonight
To drag the past out into the light
We’re one, but we’re not the same
We get to carry each other
Carry each other
One…

Have you come here for forgiveness?
Have you come to raise the dead?
Have you come here to play Jesus?
To the lepers in your head

Well, did I ask too much, more than a lot?
You gave me nothing, now it’s all I got
We’re one, but we’re not the same
Well we, hurt each other
Then we do it again

You say
Love is a temple
Love is a higher law
Love is a temple
Love is the higher law
You ask me to enter
Well then you make me crawl
And I can’t be holding on
To what you got
When all you got is hurt

One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters and my
Brothers
One life
But we’re not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other

One…
One love

147. Ill Never Tell - October 7, 2011

144. Golden Veil:
‘To whom it may concern. . . considering even just this one aspect of The Fellowship of Friends Teacher, a so-called “Man no. 8” … isn’t it enough to make you want to leave? Yuck!’

Regarding:
143. Shirley
“Talking about RB’s world of power plays (as one woman more or less described it, “the more hetero the men are, the more RB seems to get pleasure from having his way with them”, and we can assume, he gets his way with many of them)…”

The Fellowship of Friends Teacher is a man number ate; as in ‘ate semen’ by infinitely insatiably sociopathicly sucking it from his students. But, it is, oh!, so beautiful and a protected religious experience.

148. WhaleRider - October 7, 2011

Renald:

Everyone has sadistic fantasies, myself included…that doesn’t mean I act upon them.

As I stated, I was confused by your post. You said you wanted to go from the theoretical to the practical and yet you gave me a hypothetical situation. What does that say?

(BTW, the one person I remember on the blog who most recently posted his fantasy about burton rotting in jail was x-ray, and he removed himself.)

I’d rather you and I talk about ourselves, the people we ostensibly know best. To me that is practical.

I don’t ever recall posting about punching the wall or anything of that nature as an appropriate way to channel anger or rage, especially if it leads to self-harm, so I was unclear where you were coming from.

Now if you were such a person who kept breaking your wrists from punching the wall, I might ask you, “Is that working for you?” and then go from there.

But since this is a hypothetical person the imaginary scenario stops there, so does our communication. Was that your actual intent?

So here we are, you and I engaging in a written dialog about coping skills and this wonderful technique you have that will heal the world, that you know I am not going to ask you about…(well, scratch him off the list.)

You think there has to be a new model for healing. Remind me again, what’s wrong with the contemporary models?

(One thing is for sure, the fourth way was never about healing!)

Here we are, you and I just writing. Have we agreed upon our destination? Mine is peace and serenity, what’s yours?

Fuck the silver bullet, the reveling part of your story about the character punching the wall, IMO, has to do about his shallow frustration with the perception that burton is getting his desires met while apparently he is not.

The missing piece is the humanistic concern the about damage burton is doing to others.

IMO, this speaks to the frustrated burton-guru figure you have internalized (as many of us have)…the one who engages in magical thinking about remote healing and who wants to convince others.

Surrendering is good, up to a point. Please keep posting. Mental health as well as physical health requires effort.

BTW, I’d like to sincerely thank you, Golden Veil, for all the wonderful suggestions about how to deal with depression. I couldn’t agree with you more about the exercise.

149. surelyujest - October 7, 2011

136 Arthur

I hear you. I know you were very much affected by being asked to leave the school. I am sure I would have felt the same way if it happened to me. If I had been asked to leave at certain vulnerable points, it would have destroyed me, I think. Glad you have hung in there.

137 For the Record

“…I wish I had a friend like you when I was in the FOF, and after I left.”

Me too. Or just as important, I wish I could have been that friend to myself then. It took a long time to stop diminishing my self and what I wanted out of life as “just the machine.” In the end, it’s a very hateful, exclusive, narrowing ideology that casts aside the majority of 7 billion people as somehow unworthy due to their lack of the correct beliefs. Which means it’s just a run of the mill cult/religion.

“In Search of the Miraculous” is a very exciting novel. But not much more.

150. Arthur - October 7, 2011

Otherwise, Robert E. Burton will never experience a cell door slammed behind him.

Unless investigations last as long as this blog has.

Somebody should have accused him of supporting ‘terrorists’ under the definitions of home land security. That would have pryed open some eyes.

Drugs from Mexico, Hitmen from Russia, Artifact thieves from Egypt,
Elder and Child abuse.

151. Golden Veil - October 7, 2011

149. Surelyujest

” In the end, it’s a very hateful, exclusive, narrowing ideology that casts aside the majority of 7 billion people as somehow unworthy due to their lack of the correct beliefs. Which means it’s just a run of the mill cult/religion.”

Yes.

“The Exclusive Fellowship”

“I hear you. I know you were very much affected by being asked to leave the school. I am sure I would have felt the same way if it happened to me. If I had been asked to leave at certain vulnerable points, it would have destroyed me, I think. Glad you have hung in there.” (to Arthur)

“The Fellowship of Excluders”

You jest not!

152. nigel - October 7, 2011

…..a quote from Prince Gautama, the Buddha…..

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

153. nigel - October 7, 2011

Something that Burton has overlooked in his cravings for unnatural sexual activity…..

Sentient beings and Dukkha in Mahayana Buddhism

“A sentient being possesses a mind, whereas an automaton does not. Any animal whose survival strategy and behavior appears to depend on the avoidance of suffering (rather than mere reflex actions) should be assumed to be sentient. Apart from being unethical, it is regarded as bad karma to deliberately inflict suffering on any sentient being (Buddhists believe that cruelty results in the resultant suffering being experienced several times over by the one who inflicted it ). It is particularly bad karma to enjoy inflicting suffering.

More specifically, in Buddhist philosophy a sentient being is one who is aware of dukkha, and is capable of experiencing the qualia of suffering and happiness. A sentient being experiences its inputs (perceptions) and outputs (actions), in contrast to an automaton where no subjective states occur, and all meanings have to be assigned to inputs and outputs from ‘outside the system’.

There is a Western school of philosophy known as dualism which claims that only humans experience qualitative mental states, and animals are automata with no subjective experiences, so it doesn’t matter what you do to them. This view originates from the old Christian dogma that humans are qualitatively different from all other animals (because only humans have immortal souls). Dualism is not only contrary to Buddhist teachings, but also to the modern scientific understanding of evolution.

The functions of sentience.

In Buddhist philosophy the mind of a sentient being is not a product of biological processes, but something primordial which has existed since beginningless time and which will be drawn into another body once the present one has died. The mind is capable of exisiting independently of the body, but an unenlightened mind finds this situation (known as the Bardo) unstable and is drawn into (rather than seeks) another body. In biological terms the mind and body form a symbiotic association.

But all biological systems are subject to evolution, and any adaptation or feature must have some selective benefit for the organism that possesses it. So what does the biological partner (the body) gain from the symbiotic association with mind? The obvious explanation is that it will have an improved chance of surviving to propagate its genes over any mindless competitor which is not deterred by pain or motivated by pleasure.

And what does the mind gain? Usually little or nothing. When the life of the biological partner comes to an end, it has to endure suffering and then leave its home, being able to take nothing with it. It must then enter the nightmare state of the bardo and soon after find a new body. In Buddhist terminology these minds are wanderers or migrators in samsara (the realm of perpetual death and rebirth, suffering and craving).

Perhaps the relationship between mind and body is more one of parasitism than symbiosis. The biological body gets to propagate itself. But the mind has to endure dukkha – the ever-changing experiences of craving, suffering and attachment that the body imposes upon it in order to force it to do what is necessary for survival, competition and reproduction.

The only way that the mind can escape samsara – being endlessly captured and used by biological systems – is to escape from the recurrent process of death, attraction to a body, and rebirth.

Training in the Buddha’s Dharma is stated to be the path to individual liberation, which is why a mind born into a human body is regarded as extremely fortunate – since only humans can understand Dharma. Nevertheless the minds of all sentient beings are believed to possess Buddha seed and are capable of progression.

In some Buddhist traditions it is believed that it is possible to help animals by reciting mantras to them (typically by whispering them in their ears). This will create a karmic connection between the animal and the Buddha of the mantra, causing the creature to be reborn in a situation where it will meet with the Dharma. In addition, Mahayanists believe that there are Bodhisattvas who are working for the salvation of all sentient beings, and have vowed not to enter Nirvana (the bliss of liberation) until they have rescued everyone from suffering.”

– Sean Robsville

154. nigel - October 7, 2011

…..”Dishonour not thy mothers” – Henry V, by William Shakespeare.

Am watching a DVD of “A.I. – Artificial Intelligence”, by Stephen Speilberg, about love and motherhood – the ‘mecha’ is called David, which in Hebrew (Speilberg is Jewish) means ‘beloved’…..

“The Universe is femimine, because she carries us”…..Nigel.

155. Arthur - October 7, 2011

nigel (153),

Isnt that the same as “verify everything”?

How can anybody ‘verify’ what Robert E. Burton says about his intrepretations of cave drawings, licence plates, the methods like the sequence, and so on and so forth.

Robert E. Burton doesnt want any verifications. like people in power dont like being questioned.

How to verify Robert E. Burton’s day of enlightenment? Star gazing in the middle of the day with smoke coming out of his ears. Does that agree with reason and a benefit to all? Or, even lived up to?.

The same thing happened to me. But I was asleep in the middle of the night, felt rumbling in my head, and almost immediately, I felt an explosion in my forehead. But no smoke and no following enlightenment. It happened twice and could have happened a third time but I stopped them by opening my eyes. Too intense for my blood. Probably some form of epilepsy without unconsciousness and convulsions. In fact the opposite. Woke me up out of my sleep. And I dont mean anything esoteric . Next day went to the doctor and he had nothing to offer except back exercises at a rehab center.

Another weird thing happened along those times was being awaken in the middle of the night and while standing over the urinal (this is hard to describe) but chemical equations, math equations, things learned in school proceeded across some part of the brain, like a computer scan, and out.

A year or two later I became envolved with lsd, mushrooms. marijuana and began seeing the world sober with fear and loathing..

Now those things have passed and here we are a babe in the woods.

156. Shirley - October 8, 2011

136 Arthur

“My concern is the ‘apparent’ divergent sources, Gurdjieffian, Zen, Ayurveda and even Christian…I’m not losing any sleep over it, the subject just peaked my curiousity.”

Maybe the ‘apparent’ divergence of sources is a testament to our human need to find meaning in existence. Maybe we have a deep need to transcend the ordinary, everyday level. Something like that. I don’t lose any sleep over it either, but it’s good to be curious.

And I’m glad we can use phrases like, “I don’t lose any sleep over it” without making ourselves crazy about the word “sleep.” The FF had so much negative judgement over the implication of “being asleep.” It was like a race to conquer “sleep” and get to the Third State, no matter how heartless you were, in the process.

149 surelyujest

I knew someone who was asked to leave the FF a long time ago, who then rejoined many years later, recently. I couldn’t figure out the attraction that the FF had for him that he wanted to rejoin; he had access to former students, their stories, the other website, and so on. In the back of my mind, I kept wondering if part of the phenomenon was simply: we want what we can’t have. When we’re rejected or spurned, we feel a fascination with what rejected us. Plus, maybe he needed closure.

I learned a few things from this: if someone really, really wants to be in the FF, or close to RB, they will. There’s no stopping them. Also, once he rejoined, he stopped reaching out to me. It was the familiar berlin wall, the kind where the wall keeps people in, rather than keeping the riff-raff out.

157. silentpurr - October 8, 2011

Renald, this blog, like many things in life, is self-selecting. We all participate for a variety of reasons.
We needn’t know in advance, why, but maybe we can learn something anyway and understand in retrospect.
It may not be what was expected…
Reading and contributing to the blog offers an opportunity to give and receive.
When someone announces their departure from participating here, it seems like they are leaving with a “huff”, defending something.
That may not be so with you, Renald.
But, if you feel abused when it’s intimated that the new thing you’ve found appears to be just another enticement, please look deeper and try not to be offended.

I think what we ‘gained’ in the Fellowship is enough to last a lifetime, but we have to leave in order to use what we learned.
To have struggled the way we did for so long, deserves some self- reflection and respect.
Sincerity.
To graduate from the Fellowship and then to enthusiastically jump into a ‘self-help’/spiritual business system says something. But what?
I don’t know. it’s for you to figure out.

158. Agent 45 - October 8, 2011

I’ll be damned! There are traces of the ego-mind everywhere and anyway you turn.

159. Golden Veil - October 8, 2011

Says it all, for me…

160. nigel - October 8, 2011

“An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. ”

Buddha

161. nigel - October 8, 2011

“Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule. ”

Buddha

162. nigel - October 8, 2011

“I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act. ”

Buddha

163. Mr. Burp - October 8, 2011

Following up on the post that hasn’t been published (S.O.B):

Tempus Fugit (somewhere and someabouts)

IMO if someone has something against what you said is because this place has a borderline cultist personality itself: saying that: “There is not much difference in the degree of captivity if one is possessed by another person through blind admiration or through blind hatred. In both cases it is deep mind captivity.” It’s a no no. Shame on you!

One remark I can make is that to me your tone comes across as a little patronizing/teacherlike. (i.e. “Thank you for the support; I would be interested to hear more of your thinking. Please consider posting further” or requiting another “BRAVO Tempus!” Thanks for the compliment! I’m glad you enjoyed what I wrote. I enjoy and benefit from yours and everyone’s heartfelt posts here. I sincerely wish I had time to respond to each poster individually).
Just a tad too glossy!

Then, on another note you say: “Every day I encounter my fellow human beings and in them I see myself.”

No you don’t. This silly taken for granted law-of-reflection-thingy has to stop…seriously.

Rock that boat (someplace above)

“Over the past 2/3 weeks we have had 3 big planets Saturn, Mars, and Uranus hovering.bla, bla,bla…. Saturn represents conservative thinking and conventional behavior, Uranus represents that which is new and innovative…”

…and all together they represent the same old bodytypish/astrological crap!

Silentpurr (109)

I knew you came from Youranus! (sorry, couldn’t resist)

Btw, anything to add on the story that RB has AIDS?

Whalerider (after Renald attracted Whalerider’s confusion)

“…or ‘bam’ shooting him in the heart with a silver bullet…”

I say why waste some good silver!

Renald couldn’t possibly say anything like that, c’mon! He is too afraid and convinced that even thinking that way would certainly attract and then succumb to the same fate.

Renald 117

“At this point I have given up on everything.”

You didn’t give up the “Sacred Law of Attraction”, did you? or was it Ronnie?

Whalerider 112

“That’s not to say we are powerless over our feelings if we surrender to them; and by surrendering to our feelings neither do we make them worse, although it may seem that way at first.”

“The task we all face is to find appropriate ways and means to channel our feelings of anger, rage, sadness, depression despair, or joy in a manner that empowers us instead of diminish us, rather than repress them or assign them to others around us.”

… and we have contact! (with our own tail). So, what seems to be unintentional surrender it’s nothing but manipulative enlightening channeling…uhm… ahhhhhhhh…. Now I get it, you are talking about the good ol’ transformation!!!

164. For the record - October 8, 2011

Burp,
You remind of a little kid who enters the room to mess up the puzzle pieces on the coffee table — possibly just looking for attention. Or maybe the teamwork of putting the puzzle together is a threat to your ego for some reason. Or both.

There’s no sense of direction in your comments. You’re just throwing stuff out there that’s vaguely coherent in some respects, but mostly incoherent.

Not that I expect you to be open to advice, but why don’t you join in and help with the puzzle? Do you dislike the picture that’s unfolding?

165. silentpurr - October 8, 2011

A word from the Goddess to you Mr. Burp!
Pfffftt!!
And no, nothing more to report on the AIDS info.

166. nigel - October 9, 2011

…..from Wikipedia – “The Fascination with Death”…..

“The fascination with death extends far back into human history. Throughout time, people have had obsessions with death and all things related to death and the afterlife.

In past times, people would form cults around death gods and figures. Famously, Anubis, Osiris, Hades, and Death (Saint Death) have all had large cult followings. La Santa Muerte (Saint Death), or the personification of death, is currently worshiped by many in Mexico and other countries in Central America. Day of the Dead, November 2, is a celebration for the dead.

The ancient Egyptians are most famous for their fascination of death by mummifying their dead and building exquisite tombs, like the pyramids of Giza, for their dead. Many of their deities were death-related, such as: Ammut, the devourer of unworthy souls; Anubis, the guardian of the Necropolis and the keeper of poisons, medicines, and herbs; and Osiris, the king of the dead.

The Greek underworld, Hades, was ruled by the god Hades, and had five rivers that flowed through it. The rivers were: Acheron, river of sadness; Cocytus, river of lamentation; Lethe, river of forgetfulness; Phlegethon, river of fire; Styx, river of hate. The Underworld had attendants who, though not rulers, were important gods and beings. The Furies were female spirits who exacted vengeance against people who committed specific crimes. Keres were female spirits of death and destruction. Persephone was the goddess of the underworld and the spouse of Hades. Thanatos, the god of death, was said to wear dark robes.

The Vikings believed that if a warrior died in battle, he would be taken to the Norse afterlife: the hall of Valhöll, in which the warriors would prepare for Ragnarökk, the battle at the end of the world. Rune stones were erected to commemorate particularly brave warriors. Death in one’s sleep (a “straw death”) was considered dishonorable.”

167. nigel - October 9, 2011

L.A. Times/November 4, 1996

By Jenifer Warren

“Oregon House, Calif.–Deep in the Sierra foothills, at the end of a twisting road, lies Apollo–an oasis of high culture in the outback. A mock French chateau houses a museum and library stuffed with rare art and books. A vineyard on terraced hillsides produces award-winning wines.

Apollo is the worldwide headquarters of the Fellowship of Friends, whose 2,000 cerebral members believe that keen self-awareness, a positive outlook and immersion in life’s finest things–from Baccarat crystal to Johann Sebastian Bach–offer a path to higher consciousness.

They have been led on this journey for 25 years by Robert Earl Burton, a former schoolteacher who has guided everything from when his followers bear children to what sort of shoes they wear. Burton tells members he speaks with 44 angels who watch over his flock–among them Abraham Lincoln, Plato and Jesus Christ–believers say. Burton also has predicted that Apollo will be the lone surviving outpost after a global nuclear holocaust in 2006.

Disillusioned former members say the fellowship is more than just another California curiosity. A growing number of them–as well as some academics–call it a cult that entraps its mostly well-educated members with a false promise of spiritual evolution. A recently ended lawsuit and accounts from ex-members echo that claim and add another: Burton, they say, has for years seduced young males in the group.

The suit and similar allegations by other members have spurred dozens to leave the group. It was brought by a Marin County man who claims Burton first demanded sex from him at age 17. Troy Buzbee, who had asked for $5 million in damages, charged that Burton brainwashes members into a state of “absolute submission,” allowing him to feed a “voracious appetite for sexual perversion.”

Fellowship officials and their attorney, Abraham Goldman, did not respond to repeated requests for interviews about the group and Burton. The Buzbee suit was settled late last month. Buzbee’s attorney, Ford Greene, would not comment except to say the case “is over.”

Several former members, including some who held high-level positions, said the details in the suit served to confirm for them what a number of followers had come to suspect about the 57-year-old Burton. “For years I ignored or justified a lot of things, but this I could not ignore,” said Pamella Cavanna, 54, who left the fellowship last year after devoting two decades and more than $250,000 to Burton and his teachings. “A teacher should have moral standards that we aspire to. Instead, Robert has standards we are forced to overlook.”

Former members, as well as court records, fellowship documents and Burton’s prolific writings to the faithful, reveal much about the group and a leader who rose from humble beginnings to command a little-known $26-million empire.

To outsiders, the fellowship can have an entrancing face. Its headquarters sprawl across 1,300 acres in Yuba County about 70 miles north of Sacramento. Its Renaissance winery produces Cabernets and Rieslings that have been poured for American presidents and are respected by wine experts. The Apollo Opera company recently mounted an acclaimed production of Mozart’s “Don Giovanni” in nearby Grass Valley.

The fellowship also has a reputation in the art and antique world as a serious collector. The group recently liquidated its museum full of antique Chinese furniture, a collection considered among the world’s preeminent holdings. The collection fetched $11.2 million at Christie’s auction house in New York, where Disney chief Michael Ovitz was among the buyers, snagging a pair of elaborately carved cabinets for $607,500.

The winery, opera and antiques–along with the art, gardens, fountains, rare Persian carpets, inlaid Steinway pianos and other valuables sprinkled around the property–reflect the fellowship’s guiding philosophy. A refined social and cultural milieu, writes Burton, helps a believer “awaken his higher centers” and develop an immortal soul.

“Robert always used to say, ‘Beauty creates its likeness in those who pursue it,’ ” recalls one former member from Los Angeles who asked not to be named.

168. nigel - October 9, 2011

…..from Google-ing – “Smell and Memory”

“A smell can bring on a flood of memories, influence people’s moods and even affect their work performance. Because the olfactory bulb is part of the brain’s limbic system, an area so closely associated with memory and feeling it’s sometimes called the “emotional brain,” smell can call up memories and powerful responses almost instantaneously.

The olfactory bulb has intimate access to the amygdala, which processes emotion, and the hippocampus, which is responsible for associative learning. Despite the tight wiring, however, smells would not trigger memories if it weren’t for conditioned responses. When you first smell a new scent, you link it to an event, a person, a thing or even a moment. Your brain forges a link between the smell and a memory — associating the smell of chlorine with summers at the pool or lilies with a funeral. When you encounter the smell again, the link is already there, ready to elicit a memory or a mood. Chlorine might call up a specific pool-related memory or simply make you feel content. Lilies might agitate you without your knowing why. This is part of the reason why not everyone likes the same smells.

Because we encounter most new odors in our youth, smells often call up childhood memories. But we actually begin making associations between smell and emotion before we’re even born. Infants who were exposed to alcohol, cigarette smoke or garlic in the womb show a preference for the smells. To them, the smells that might upset other babies seem normal or even comforting.”

169. nigel - October 9, 2011

How to Identify a Cult

By Wayne Jackson

In November of 1978, nine hundred people in Guyana, South America drank a deadly grape drink at the behest of cult figure Jim Jones. Our nation was mortified. In 1993, David Koresh led seventy-six souls to their deaths in the Waco, Texas compound of the Branch Davidians. Again, a cultist mentality was evident.

Our own brotherhood of the churches of Christ has observed the rise of the so-called International Church of Christ (formerly known as the Boston Movement), led by mind-control artist, Kip McKean. Members of this movement are slavishly dominated by the powers that be—ultimately by McKean himself.

Though the Bible does not use the word “cult,” the idea is there—at least in seed form. It is represented by the Greek term hairesis, rendered “sect,” which derives from a root meaning “to choose.” W. E. Vine suggests that it hints of a self-willed opinion that rejects the authority of truth, leads to division, and the causes the formation of a sect.

Much study has been done in recent years with reference to the development of cults. How do these bizarre movements get started? How do cult leaders gain such strong control over their devotees?

Dr. Michael Langone, editor of Cultic Studies Journal, has done considerable research in the matter of mind-manipulating movements. While one would not agree with all of Landone’s conclusions, he has, nonetheless, identified some key traits by which cultish movements reveal themselves.

Similarly, Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the nation’s leading experts on cult control, has produced a valuable work titled, Releasing the Bonds. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

Consider the following:

(1) Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc.

Frequently, they even begin to imitate his mannerisms in terms of voice inflection, language patterns, aggressive attitudes, etc. They become clones of their esteemed leader. It is not uncommon that the leader knows of weaknesses or past problems of people within his group. Thus, through subtle intimidation and fear he keeps them under his control.

(2) “Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader.

Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.

Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”

(3) The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.

The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality.

(4) The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock.

Cult members become suspicious; they imbibe the critical disposition. “No one is really as sound as we are. We are an elitist group.” And so, seeds of isolationism are sown. The movement leader discourages reading any material, examining any ideas that he does not generate. He seeks to control the inflow of knowledge relative to his group.

Kip McKean has actually charged his followers not to read certain books dealing with mind control, characterizing any breach of this rule as sin (Steve Hassan 2000, xvii). Jehovah’s Witnesses generally will not read any literature other than that published by the Watchtower Association.

(5) The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters.

(6) Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader.

170. WhaleRider - October 9, 2011

Secret Cult Spreads Good Cheer

BIG HOUSE, CA- They could be anyone, your smiling hairdresser, your smiling taxi driver, your smiling drycleaner, or your smiling male prostitute.

Recently a secret cult of anonymous wishing-wellers has been discovered in the gopher hills of Northern California whose base camp, called Dyonisis, is cleverly camouflaged as a vineyard and winery, except for the oversized lawn sculpture, outdoor Greek-style Theater, and exotic animal farm, that is.

Their mission: to make the world a better place for all by practicing senseless beauty and random acts of kindness to everyone they meet, except among themselves.

A street artist-filmmaker (who goes only by the name of Mr. Brainwipe) has been studying the secretive cult for years after a brief encounter with a cult follower at Kinko’s that changed his life. There he met a smiling Kinko’s worker who didn’t appear so unflinchingly depressed like all the others, despite the low pay and lack of a future.

Mr. Brainwipe thought the polite and upbeat young man might be hiding something and invited him for coffee. After a few brief questions, the man eagerly divulged his source of unmitigated rapture.

The young man, who wished to remain unnamed, believes this cult is holding the universe together for the rest of us through their esoteric tradition of living only for the moment, practicing “non-self remembering”, conscious passive aggression, and by embracing gay male dominance.

Otherwise, their leader, Mr. Robert E. Burton, has predicted the world will end in a cataclysmic event at a date soon to be re-announced in the not-too-distant future if they don’t, and apparently only those at Dyonisis will survive. The man seemed oddly uncomfortable with that notion.

What so impressed Mr. Brainwipe was the smiling man’s paradoxical statement, “It is so heavy and negative at Dyonisis that I can’t wait to get away from my night duties there and to work at my Kinko’s day job each morning; working here makes me happy”.

171. Arthur - October 9, 2011

Jesus supposedly said, “two or three gathered together in my name will be the law of three”.

And the beginning of widespread cults.

172. Arthur - October 9, 2011

And for cultist Robert E. Burton the greatest light since Jesus the law of three is better served by men(age) a trois.

173. nigel - October 9, 2011

Jesus The Christ, as Avatar and Redeemer (or megalomaniac and psychopath?????!!!!!)

John 14:6

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

International Standard Version (©2008)
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Yeshua said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Way and The Truth and The Life; no man comes to my Father but by me alone.”

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus answered him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except through me.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.

American King James Version
Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

174. For the record - October 9, 2011

Nigel, “How to Identify a Cult”

Yeah, the long answer(s) to this question are helpful.

But the short answer is even better: Simply open your eyes. It’s not too complicated, and the tendency to analyze things and make them seem more complex than they are is part of the problem.

“Look long and you will see” was a little mantra related to the looking exercise. Try that with Robert Burton, Pathway to Presence, Living Presence, Fellowship of Friends and no further analysis is needed.

People who join cults are unable to do what many of those lowly “life people” are able to — Just look.

175. nigel - October 9, 2011

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1.Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2.No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3.No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4.Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5.There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6.Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7.There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8.Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.

9.The group/leader is always right.

10.The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

176. nigel - October 9, 2011

…..from “Robert Earl Burton – An Unauthorized Biography”…..

“Life Person’s” Study of the Man posted on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog:

After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what most amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to believe.

Once the emotional charge created by the resurgence of memories that had drifted around for decades dissipated somewhat, and I had for some weeks left off reading the blog, which seemed to perpetuate that charge, and then came back to it, I find myself stunned and incredulous.

Taking away those things that he has said about himself, and those things that others have said about him, and looking only at the evidence before us, we see a man who, before he announced himself as a Teacher, was most easily described as a loser. Fired from his modest teaching position, kicked out of his brief stint in an abusive cult for the most pedestrian reason–being unable to keep his hands off the other guys–living with his mommy or in his van long past the age when we’d expect a man to have a halfway decent job. A man with modest formal education from a white trash background, with the middle name of Earl. Had never accomplished anything of note. Cannot write, paint, dance, or sing. Oh yes–he could play tennis, at the level of the average high school varsity player.

A man who has since lived an entirely parasitic existence, having declined to lift a finger on his own behalf since he was thirty, beyond walking, sitting, lifting fork and glass, talking, and having sex; a man whose muscles have atrophied from disuse. A man who cannot be bothered to pay his own bills, or drive his own car, or fix his own faucet. Can you imagine your father, or your neighbor, let alone Socrates, telling people to do manual labor, including labor that benefits only himself, year after year, decade after decade, while he simply shuffles around in thousand-dollar slacks and five hundred-dollar shoes, without ever contributing anything? Jesus was a carpenter. Dante wrote fantastic works of literature. Leonardo painted masterpieces. Others make shoes, grow food. Here’s a man who jots down notes and sayings at the level of a precocious junior high schooler, and gives others instructions in between efforts to satisfy his physical urges. We find the model for this in, say, Henry VIII, or more accurately, a pinheaded, inbred pharaoh.

177. For the record - October 9, 2011

175. nigel – October 9, 2011

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

—–
This should be posted more often and shared with everyone in the Fellowship as often as possible.

All 10 warning signs apply exactly to Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends, Pathway to Presence, Living Presence group — no question about it. The most serious is No. 1: “Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.”

But you’d think Ross wrote the entire list of 10 about the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton.

Cults are very predictable and follow the same patterns as other cults. You’d think most of us — being semi in-tune with “mechanical” and predictable behaviors in ourselves and in the people around us — would be able to apply the same logic to the group in which we were a part.

But the problem is, we also have: “2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.”

178. Ill Never Tell - October 9, 2011

George Carlin speaks truth:

179. Tempus Fugit - October 9, 2011

Great posts from everyone, including George Carlin. Thanks!!!!! Well, here’s my latest, not nearly as funny as George. In fact, not funny at all.

As I’ve said before, whatever I write is just my opinion and you are free to disagree. Free, that is, unless you are a member of the FOF, and then you will need to ask permission from the one who holds your leash.

When I was in the FOF, of course, I didn’t know that I was in prison. I was a true believer and slowly and unknowingly allowed myself to become enslaved.

I’d like to be able to tell you I woke up one day with a clear realization I had been deceived and made a loud public exit. Truth is I simply ran out of money, fell behind in my payments, and one day I was no longer a member.

So what was I then? A former member? Yes, but more importantly I believed I was a failure, a doomed, descending soul who would soon be punished horribly by “C influence.” Burton, the self proclaimed “conscious being” had said such a fate was guaranteed for me.

But of course that didn’t happen – because it was just another lie. I found work, I met a beautiful woman who loved me, and my healing began. I still did not understand the depth of criminality in the FOF – and I felt no anger.

The biggest turning point for me was the help I received from Stella Wirk. Some of you knew Stella, who has now passed on. (Hello, Stella!) Stella was a wonderful person who was appalled to discover Burton’s sexual abuse of students and other insensitive and cruel behavior.

After Stella left the group she contacted me and I met with her. Only then was I able to feel my anger towards Burton and understand that he is not a “conscious being.” The only thing special about Burton, in my opinion, is that he is an exceptionally skilled sociopath, a very sick human being.

After meeting Stella I could begin to acknowledge all my feelings. Even then it took years to regain emotional and spiritual health. And by that I mean nothing more than the imperfect emotional and spiritual health of an imperfect human being.

Believe me, I will take that and my freedom over any delusional benefit I thought I had gained while enslaved in this cult.

Cult is an ugly word, really too small of a word and not nearly ugly enough to describe the Fellowship of Friends.

If you are a current member reading this blog, listen closely to what your heart is telling you. Most people are decent, and I believe you are too. Listen to the voice of decency and reason in your heart.

The door to the prison in unlocked. The only thing that keeps you in prison are your own mistaken beliefs. Leaving and recovering doesn’t have to be as hard for you as it was for me. There is plenty of help available.

And plenty of free life yet to be lived. But remember, time flies.

180. For the record - October 9, 2011

George, we thank thee.

See the film “Inside Job” for a detailed account of what caused the 2008 financial crisis, who is responsible for it, who profited from it, how it relates to some larger problems in the world, and so forth. And yes, there are parallels to the fof.

By the way, on a related note: A big challenge for me for many years has been the wicked combination of joining a cult, realizing I’ve been deceived, feeling stupid, trying to recover, etc –AND– coming to realize that everything that Carlin said in the above video is unfortunately true. The challenge is how to acknowledge these difficult truths about people routinely taking advantage of others, and yet still approach my life and the people I meet with a positive attitude. It can be done, and has to be done, but it’s a challenge. It’s a type of “baggage” I’ve carried with me since leaving the cult many years ago. I’m less naive. I’ve come to realize more and more just how corrupt the world is, and that maybe there are more sociopaths in the world like Robert Burton than many of us really want to know. To see that, and to not bury my head in the sand and quietly “buffer” everything that’s happening, but still approach life with optimism and positive energy and love — that is truly ‘the work’ for me anyway. Maybe that resonates with some of you, too.

181. Ill Never Tell - October 9, 2011

179. Tempus Fugit
‘. . .appalled to discover Burton’s sexual abuse of students and other insensitive and cruel behavior.’

‘Usually, however, these violent and destructive manifestations of sexual energy are directly or indirectly traceable to a negative attitude towards sex in general – that is, to suspicion of it, fear of it, or to a cynical, brutal or obscene sense of sex. For such negative attitudes prevent sex from finding its proper and natural expression and force its energy into channels and functions for which it is far too strong.

This may result in violent, pointless and clumsy activity, often leading to physical accident and destruction. Or in bursts of passionate anger; or in bitter and wounding repartee; or in feverish imagination; or in violent denunciations of others, or the imposition of impossible tasks and disciplines upon them. All these and countless other unpleasant aspects of human behaviour result from sexual energy being forced into systems appropriate to the much coarser energies required for thought, action or instinct. Passing through these systems, sexual energy resembles electric current passing through a wire too small to carry it – the wire first becomes hot, and in the end may fuse altogether.

Those who emotionally understand the idea of sex as the force which harmonizes all other functions, and who manage to live their life in accordance with this understanding, although they obviously cannot be entirely free of the unpleasant manifestations described above, will never be dominated by them in the same way. In any case they will never justify such violence, or pretend that it can have any useful function, for they will realize its origin and its nature.’
The Theory of Celestial Influence
Rodney Collin

‘Cult is an ugly word, really too small of a word and not nearly ugly enough to describe the Fellowship of Friends.’

‘Cult’ is a four-letter word.

182. Tim Campion - October 10, 2011

176. nigel

A slight correction: Robert Earl Burton – An Unauthorized Blogography

178. I’ll Never Tell

All cult members (“Americans” being a subset) should be forced to watch this, repeatedly. Thanks.

179. Tempus Fugit and 180. For the record

I can relate to your experiences. When the funds ran out, I woke up on the other side of the fence, wondering “now what?”

Burton will extract everything he can from you, and (if he thinks of you at all,) grudgingly dole out only what he feels you deserve. There is nothing special about his brand of greed.

183. Arthur - October 10, 2011

For the record (181),

I’ve seen that Carlin clip lots of times and just enjoyed it again. That truth works better on stage. I saw him on a talk show and he used those thoughts in a similar vein and it didnt work so well. He got frustrated by the splash back.

How to reenter life after FOF? For me duck and dodge. I dont have a ‘rich background’ so I had to seek comfortableness where I could find it, and then act like a roman when in Rome.

184. Ill Never Tell - October 10, 2011

For those who may not be able to watch the video:

‘It’s the same big club that they use to beat you over the head all day long when they tell you what to believe; all day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted, folks. The game is rigged. And, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. . . Good, honest, hard working people continue to elect [in FoF you don’t even get to elect or have a say-so] these rich cocksuckers [REB being the biggest of the cocksuckers] who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all, at all. And, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. . . That’s what the owners count on. The fact that [you] will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big. . . dick that is being jammed up their assholes every day. Because the owners. . . know the truth. It’s called the American dream. So, you have to be asleep to believe it.’
George Carlin

185. For the record - October 10, 2011

183. Arthur – October 10, 2011

“How to reenter life after FOF? For me duck and dodge. I dont have a ‘rich background’ so I had to seek comfortableness where I could find it, and then act like a roman when in Rome.”

I probably share the duck and dodge approach with you, and always really like the vibe coming from your posts.

Carlin’s humor was (usually) more direct and to the point than Jon Stewart’s, but I get similar therapy and satisfaction from both. As Carlin got near the end, he seemed less and less concerned what people would think about his message. The clip above essentially spells it out, almost with no holds barred. It’s like telling someone in the school that Robert is a sociopath. Must have been some squirming in the audience, but I’m sure it also opened a few eyes.

186. Arthur - October 10, 2011

For the record (186),

I’ll accept those good vibes coming from you too!

I can imagine somebody like Stella who I saw but never met standing next to George Carlin at a Robert E. Burton led meeting.

I can imagine a bunch going forth by day right out the gate laughing all the way.

And I can imagine a bunch of hold-outs unnecessarly suffering the crassness of those low-level beings. Even Haven would have a frown on his face.

187. Someone - October 10, 2011

To those who said that I do not care about the participants. I do care of you very much. Many of you have been my friends for years and I have shared my story here in details.

Yet, after some time, I noticed that this blog has become a two-edged sword for me.

On one hand I felt the urge and the real need to spill it out and warn others, yet on the other hand it sublimely became addictive. At first it seems to be harmless, yet after reading the same content being ruminant again and again by the same people, amongst them those who left during the 80’s and the early 90’s, I realized that supporting what they say is like encouraging people to gulp while being in a Weight Watchers session.

So I changed my nickname and started to bring the quite unpopular subject in this blog – “Letting Go”.
Frankly I am quite content to see that there are not more than 25-35 active posters now. It might be an indication that people have found their ways and are not under this cycle of FoF captivity.

188. For the record - October 10, 2011

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

“Don’t be naïve, develop a good BS Detector.

“You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.”

189. Arthur - October 10, 2011

Someone (188),

I don’t think anybody of the 25-35 captives are holding on.

For instance nigel:

Enjoys his shop, enjoys passing on his knowledge of precious metals craftsmanship, enjoys his pub time, enjoys his relationship with an Irish girl, and he enjoys coming here to this blog, especially since the Shiek introduced it and the reason for it.

Whalerider and Bruce Levy should have the hardest time even now, but both seem adjusted they probably enjoy similar things as Nigel.

2bits is freshly released from real captivity and seems to be adjusting quite well.

Even if you live a “normal” life without the experience of having been involved with a rat, moving from town to town or residence takes some adjustments.

If people were captive by your definition and this site is to help heal and adjust why havent they said something?

Maybe taking aim and blasting the rat offers relief? Afterall rats spread diseases of the soul.

The followship of friends web-site is off and running and luring the unsuspecting into a web of deceit.

Maybe that’s why the 25-35 are here as lighthouses to warn the unsuspecting of dangerous seas ahead.

Why don’t you pick up the phone and call Robert E. Burton and ask him what he thinks. Come back and tell us what he said , or better yet ask him to call us.

Being the brightest light in the heavens , and having the mind of Socrates, and protected by Leonardo Di Venci what’s to fear?

190. fofblogmoderator - October 10, 2011

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