Fellowship Of Friends/Living Presence/Pathway To Presence Discussion – Part 108 August 12, 2011
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Fellowship of Friends - Living Presence Discussion 
Business as usual. Part 1.
The following is a transcript from the meeting held after Abraham Goldman’s death. The source of this material wishes to maintain his/her anonymity. Please note that dates and numbers might be imprecise due to the highly complicated algorithms used to exponentially multiply justifications.
RB: AG voluntarily ended his life by his own hand. His birthday is Dec 21st (supposedly the date for the next end of the world prediction in 2012). SG called 911 and the Galleria for help. C. went over immediately, his birthday is Oct 4th (allegedly the whereabouts of the anniversary of RB’s meeting “C” influence, this year it will be 44 years and from that date it will be 444 days to the 21st of Dec. 2012). It is a shock from Rembrandt. Did he take sleeping pills? Usually one takes pills before. He ‘kneeled’ and leaned into the noose facing east. This shock reminds us of C. and D. (who died in a car accident in Egypt). I mentioned that during Journey Forth By Day ‘C’ Influence issues a shock, and they scripted it in a high moment (the ballet gala). We stay centered and not being under the law of accident. Somehow Abe will be taken by ‘C’ Influence. He was under a lot of pressure; it was too much for him: financial pressure, migraines and he was facing yet another operation to restore a chip in his head. He left a note speaking about that.
Dorian: Three weeks ago we saw the sign:”Friend’s death”
RB: Yes, B. said it was a very frightening omen.
(…): When we were coming back from lake Tahoe with his son we saw on the back of a truck: “It is written!”
RB: Yes! It is written. This is payment for what might occur to life, it is payment for acquiring privileged information from ‘C’ influence. Suicide is extremely rare in the long history of the school. Of all the students in the school, only Kevin out of so many people in so many years. DW went into Marysville the day after and saw the license plate: ”ALLDONE”. This is evolution as we experience it; schools pretty much all even out for payment. Now we will all have “I’s” so just ‘Drop’ and be present.
Note from the thirty imperishable stars:
“Kneel”: Do not resent friction.
“Drop”: Do not judge or keep accounts.
Shirley:
The problem is all inside your head
He said to me
The answer is easy if you
Trust Influence C
(We’d like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To leave your teacher)
He said it’s really not my habit
To suck dudes
Furthermore, we hope our meaning
Won’t be lost or misconstrued
But we’ll repeat ourself
At the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways
To leave your teacher
Fifty ways to leave your teacher
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don’t need to be gay, Ray
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free
He said it grieves me so
To see you in such pain
I know of something I could do
To make you smile again
I said I appreciate that
And would you please explain
About the other boys?
He said why don’t you
Just sleep with me tonight
And I believe in the morning
You’ll begin to see the light
And then he kissed me
And I realized they probably were right
There must be fifty ways
To leave your teacher
Fifty ways to leave your teacher
I remember being all cuddled up just so
Cuddled up in Robert’s confident, soothing tones and
lull…
The meeting described by NG (#1) above leaves me speechless. Well, almost speechless. Not quite.
Let me use the adrenal fluid currently circulating in me to tackle the Springfield letter which Ames describes in #176, 107.
In my memory of the inner workings of Apollo/Isis/whatever, Abe never lost a fight. Robert always backed him up against all comers. So suddenly there’s a coup d’etat on the FOF Board, and A.G. & D.S. are ousted?
It must have been with R.B.’s support. The Board, especially given the rabbits on it, would not have gone against Robert. So it looks like Robert abandoned his champion in the end, the meeting in #1 above notwithstanding.
Or else Robert is so gaga that he’s simply not interested in these byzantine workings anymore, and the monkeys are running amok.
In the letter, D.S. warns that the FOF is going to look like “a criminal organization that is functioning as the later ego of Robert Burton, involved in a conspiracy to engage in financial, tax and immigration fraud, and perhaps other illegal activities and/or tortuous conduct.” Nah. Whoda thunk it?
A.G. always managed to put a legal fig leaf on the shadier goings-on of the FOF. The (so far) legally impregnable fortress of the FOF was A.G.’s creation. Then, in 2007, he was apparently given a pink slip with a good deal of bullying, according to the letter. Must have been an awful blow. Whatever happened later to compensate, if anything, it must have been devastating to suddenly be on the receiving end of a heave-ho.
Someone – R.B., probably – must have figured that it would be more advantageous to walk the tightrope without a safety net. There must have been something he wanted pretty badly, and couldn’t get with the observance of legal niceties. Perhaps Abe & co. were warning the FOF about some illegal activity that Robert wished to continue, and Robert’s greed overcame his caution. So Robert asked the board to hold illegal meetings, etc., to fetch whatever gimme he wanted. In my observation, Robert could only have wanted two things: money (or objects that money can buy) or a river of young men.
I also note the timing: 2007 was the aftermath of a membership exodus. Funding must have been down and it was probably getting harder to accommodate R.B.’s greed. So maybe shortcuts were invented.
Anyone in the FOF who was party to the 2007 goings-on is welcome to come on this forum and correct me if I am wrong. Much of this is inevitably speculative, and some of it secondhand – but in an organization that thrives on secrecy, rumor and reasonable guesses are the only way we can figure out what the FOF/Pathway to Presence did.
Here’s more: I heard that Karen B. was dismissed from whatever poobah role (CFO?) she had when she had the temerity to tell R.B. there was no money to give him. The piggybank was empty. Apparently, it wasn’t an answer he liked. You were supposed to find some. Story may be apocryphal, but there are others.
I know that Peter B., president of the FOF, vigorously opposed the L.A. Times lawsuit – even as Robert was telling FOFers that the FOF was going to make a killing by suing the newspaper. The rest is history. But I’m told that R. was so irritated with the P.B.’s loyal opposition that, in the end, he wouldn’t even take phone calls from him. (Yes, dear FOF students who may be reading this, R.B. can be wrathful and vengeful. Plenty of other examples – f’rinstance, I know several women who have been in sexual triangles with him. Nasty stories.)
Peter B. was cast into utter darkness. Until, that is, P.B. was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I always wondered if the stress contributed to his unexpected physical deterioration. With the diagnosis, of course, it was all kisses and hugs again. Each utterance of the dying is treated like Holy Writ in the FOF. P.B. got all the overblown, awestruck, deferential, monarchial rituals that surround death in the FOF. A stadium funeral, even.
Abe is going through that process posthumously.
These are the stories FOF members won’t hear as a backdrop for a suicide. “Financial problems” and “instinctive friction” have been cited – but who will discuss Abe’s treatment at the hands of the organization he fought to protect?
This is a lawyer who had jettisoned his professional credibility to be the front man for a cult (he was even suspended once – a very big deal for an attorney). He, who had bullied others, was finally bullied himself, and shuttled to the sidelines. He watched his god dismantle the legally untouchable fortress that was his carefully erected creation, the work of decades. I bet whatever Robert wanted in 2007 is already gone. But then, so is Abe.
Yes, Armando (#165), “a desperately sad, disappointed and broken man.” Will there be others?
(Finally, Moderator, may I thank you for protecting our very necessary anonymity?)
re 1 – NG – “ Suicide is extremely rare in the long history of the school. Of all the students in the school, only Kevin out of so many people in so many years.“ Is this a case of selective-remembering or unremembering? Or maybe Alzeimers is setting in. It seems to me that one of his favorite sex buddies, Brian Sizzler, also hung himself after burton refused to acknowledge his call from the gatehouse. Duh! How soon they forget! Scum is as scum does.
Maybe Brian`s death date coincided with something he would rather forget also.. shhh!
Cheers!
#4 is new
on a personal note- I remember being very concerned that the Sheik was going to close this blog down a while back. I’m glad that I volunteered to keep it going. Burton and company were operating in secrecy without any transparency or accountability for 37 years. This is the only platform I know of that allows the collective voice of former cult members (including myself) to expose the true inner bowels of the Fellowship. So much bullshit exists there…. don’t even get me started.
4. Man Without a Name – August 12, 2011:
‘I heard that Karen B. was dismissed from whatever poobah role (CFO?) she had when she had. . .’
That’s Karen J., not Karen B. (she was a Karen B. at one time), and the role was vice-president of FoF, at the time described, if I am not mistaken. Otherwise the paragraph is somewhat accurate. Karen J. did manage the ‘shadow’ or ‘grey market’ financial system (read: REB’s personal local bank accounts), while another managed the facade financial system of FoF (GioB was CFO). The books were/are cooked and someone must manage each side. Yes, the well went dry and heads will roll. The queen has spoken! Don’t believe that K(9) of Hearts bull for one minute, because behind the scenes one sees the real face of REB. It ain’t pretty.
@5 Renald –
Selective indeed. He also forgets attempted suicides. Nigel, saved by a hair, by his own admission. C.S. and S.P. come to mind. One old-time FOFer told me about one a year chooses this way of leaving the FOF. Who counts them?
Others also leave the FOF feet first: Those who are driven or hectored to their deaths. Those who don’t have adequate health care, and die because they tried some flakey kiwi-and-fruitcake diet to cure brain cancer. Or who were told by an alternative doctor they didn’t have a tumor, they had a “health bump” or something – that’s easier to believe when you don’t have any health insurance. Or those who are carried to the loony bin – I know at least a few of those.
I’m still deeply disturbed by the Abe memorial meeting. It grinds me, absolutely grinds me, that this sad, misguided, tormented man is being buried under bland, self-serving, paint-by-numbers PR spin by this grotesque sybarite and his minions.
Regarding the disbursement of the “estate” (my bolds added):
On January 7, 1979 the Fellowship of Friends Board voted to amend the Articles of Incorporation to read:
I don’t know if they were ever amended to read “all net income and assets of the organization shall inure to…”, but that is the impression from the outside.
Yes, of course the Fellowship of Friends is a non profit, and that last article quoted by Tim is the way it works out if the corporation is dissolved ~ the money must be transferred to a non profit organization. There is a loophole, though… a large portion of the money could be spent before the corporation is dissolved, perhapps even continuing the tradition of spending the Student’s dues on all manner of luxury items and ‘perks’ as has been done for years. As the organization winds down, the spending could get wound up! But what about the taxes that are said to be in arrears? Board members could be liable. I would not want to be in their shoes at the time of Robert E. Burton’s passing.
So Mr. Goldman ends up looped and lowered into a hole, while the ending FOF financial books are dug out of a hole and thrown into a loop?
Sounds very American and current.
Dollar figures for all of this, even if just estimates, would be interesting. How many bank accounts and where those accounts are located, how many people have access to the funds, how the money is deposited and withdrawn, roughly who deposits and withdraws it, and other related details.
Regarding this statement: “As the organization winds down, the spending could get wound up!”
Hasn’t the spending already been “wound up” for 40 years? I wonder if Burton is continuously anticipating his possible demise. And to this day, he sits amazed that his scam has continued unabated for so long…
1
This is pathetic!
I can´t even comment on this out of disgust.
5
No, they don´t forget, Renald, they lie, and this is the only thing they do well.
6
Thank you.
And let me tell you something for the record.
Retarded burton didn’t even know about the Mayan calendar until relatively recently, when all world already knew about it from Internet.
He is no different that this cult leader,a guy who recently was claiming the end of the world in May, after confusing the May with December of next year.
I mean this psychoaths are so pathetic that if they wouldn´t be so evil, they would be funny.
And you know what? I don´t give a shit about anyone who still in the FOF after all what has been said and revealed about burton. They truly deserve to be there.
1.
completely disgusting and with no feeling or respect for A’s life. Burton does nothing, just sits there using quotations from various sources and his research resources. Followers pay money to have their faces slapped. How can YOU sit and listen to this?
If there is no audience, there is no fake guru.
About 4-5 years ago a mother of a Russian student hanged herself at Oregon House. She was visiting and staying with her daughter. Her grandchild opened the door and found her. Very few people talked about it; she was just a “life person.” Burton uses the death and sufferings of his followers for his “teaching.” How unethical can this be?
There are a lot of dramas unfolding in the lives of fellowship followers. There are many followers who are seriously depressed and use medication subscribed by fellowship therapists. It is an emotional mess and it is not getting better because the whole core of the cult is rotten and toxic.
If you stay in there, you contribute (even if you are silent) to other people’s unhappiness (and this is serious…).
I’ve said it before in this forum: give yourself a chance for a better life by taking a “leave of absence”, or whatever you want to call it. Take some distance from the merry-go-round. Open your eyes and heart.
17
Yes, this is true. And when that happened, no one wanted to talk about it. Now, as far as I remember that was another guy who hanged himself out, his name also was Brian, but not the Brian S., It was another Brian who worked in the woodshop. It was a very quite story as well.
The bottom line, is that fellowship of friends really is a living lie, rather than a living presence.
12. For the record
“I wonder if Burton is continuously anticipating his possible demise. And to this day, he sits amazed that his scam has continued unabated for so long…”
***
As Robert once (perhaps many times) said, “I want to go out with credit cards full.”
16
Go back and read my post on the previous page, 175.
One of the ways the FOF works is that no one has the whole picture.
Karen J. doesn’t see herself as evil because she’s moving money around for Robert. It’s just money, “A Influence,” and a lot of financiers do things a lot worse. Many people in the FOF think that Robert is just gay, and that’s just fine. A.M.F. doesn’t think she’s evil because she’s helping people get people R.B. picks into the country by hook or by crook. She’s just “helping Robert” (if she’s still doing that).
The whole thing is partitioned and departmentalized so few people get anything close to the whole picture – and if you try, you’re “gossiping.”
One of the people who was closest to having the whole picture was Abe. And he killed himself.
There is a great website that exposes the fallacies of the Dec 21 2012 “Mayan Calendar End Times” scenario,
http://www.2012hoax.org/mayan-calendar
using facts, logic, and some simple maths––all noticeable by their absence from Burton’s worldview. Here is the table of contents for anyone interested in learning more:
Table of Contents
What were the Maya trying to accomplish?
The Structure of the Mayan Calendar System
The Tzolkin: The religious calendar
The Haab: The Civil calendar
The Calendar Round
The Long Count Calendar
Structure of the Long Count
Synchronization
Use of the Long Count
Misconceptions
The Maya did not invent the Mesoamerican calendar
The Maya were not the Aztec
Accuracy
Cycles within cycles
Conclusion
I remember Grant Ramey, the ‘ranch manager’, once organized a lecture in the Town Hall by a professional geologist. Amongst many other things, he showed that it was impossible, according to the best science, that California could “fall into the ocean”. But, despite this, the power of magical thinking appeared to win the day. Some followers argued along the lines of “C-Influence can do anything, it would be trivial for them to overcome the laws of physics and the geological record and make California fall anyway!”
The first entry on this page (thanks, NG) shows Burton and the Burtonistas exactly as they are. Cold and inhuman. Rhinoshitting to the max, feeding the goop to credulous believers who want to believe because anything else is too much like hard work. Not a single word of these claims are verifiable, yet they are swallowed whole as if they were the indisputable truth. Omens––I remember Gurdjieff and Ouspensky devoting at least half of every book to the importance of omens and numerology, and how imagining the meanings of license plates helped to fight imagination. In fact, I heard that the title, “In Search of the Miraculous” only won out over “Numerology–the Key to Understanding the Big Kahuna” by a whisker.
Business as usual, indeed.
Re. 1 NG – August 12, 2011
“Dorian: Three weeks ago we saw the sign:”Friend’s death”
RB: Yes, B. said it was a very frightening omen.
(…): When we were coming back from lake Tahoe with his son we saw on the back of a truck: “It is written!”
Picture this. They (who were they? Including burton?) coming back from Lake Tahoe where is burton`s condo which is in the name of Abraham Goldman with Abraham`s son…..
This sounds to me like another Buzbee scenario. Abraham finds out that burton has got his paws into his son`s pants (son is 16 years old) and proceeds to hang himself. Someone in the entourage knows the truth, all the truth and nothing but the truth. All I have is the knowledge that history repeats itself, that addictions are extremely difficult to resist, and that burton is severely addicted, regardless of his age. His number one student, G—-d H—n, is also severewly addicted to child pornography and the gods know where that can take him, all of those who burton has touched have been sucked in to his huge vortex.
Last night as I tried in vain to go to sleep I was repeatedly slapped across the head by thoughts that I am responsible for his putrid sickness.
I remembered specific thoughts that I have had since a child and saw how they are connected to burton and his illness. Some of those thoughts I had when I was drunk, nevertheless I am still responsible for them.
I beg of you, all that suffered from burton`s excesses, please forgive me. I am so sorry.
I too would hang myself if I thought it would help. What I saw last night and this morning tells me that at some point and probably after death all the details become known, all the connections clear. I want to erase all of it from my memory.
I am ashamed. I need forgiveness in the hope that with forgiveness I will be able to go on with my life for a while longer.
Thank you for considering my plea. If this works I will be eternally grateful and in this gratefulness my love will surround you like a cloud of light and make you joyous beyond imagination.
Cheers!!!!
Back in the 1970’s a very sweet young man joined the Hawaii center. Kimo Beech and his loyal dog Loka. I remember him as a sane, intelligent and serious student. In 1974, he was asked to move to “Renaissance” as we all were, but he stayed there to work rather than being sent out to “open centers”.like many of us were at that time.
Once, when visiting Renaissance I learned that Kimo had died by suicide or in some strange way. No details of his death were given. Kimo, the person I knew had displayed no mental or emotional disturbances. What happened?
20
I´ve read your post 175, not much in there.
22
Jeez, a child pornography? This is a serious crime, you know. People gets arrested for it. I´ve heard ( I think it was from his former wife Elena´s posts) that he likes to masturbate with his only active left hand while watching a pornography, but a child pornography it´s relay sick.
and I mean REEEAAALLLLY SICK!
But you know what? I think he well deserved his strock, been a whitewasher of the burton´s dirt for over 30 years.
1 NG –
RB: Yes, B. said it was a very frightening omen.
(…): When we were coming back from lake Tahoe with his son we saw on the back of a truck: “It is written!”
Please, Susan. Keep your son away from Robert.
28
Well, one thing for sure, AG will not be able to send another Scientologist thug to intimidate her.
I’ve thought on occasion , why did this charlatan choose 44 for his
propaganda purposes ?
Why not 1 or 100 or any other number ? The film The Thomas Crown Affair,
might provide the answer . The plot ran : bored rich man makes the perfect
crime. Masterminds bank heist puts stolen money in bank in Switzerland .
Car number plate switch occurs at around 20 minutes into the film. From
7U4 528 to 9144 QS.The fake plate 7U4 528 is ripped off revealing
the real plate 9144 QS. This takes place in a cemetary somewhere near the
Massachusetts Turnpike . Some assumptions need to be accepted .
I’m not asking you to believe this or accept what I’m saying.
Assumption 1.The sub conscious remembers everything.
Assumption 2.The charlatan in question saw this film prior to his “evolvement “.
This film was made in 1968 .
23.Silentpurr
In 1976 I was at the Long Island teaching house when Burton and entourage were in town. Kimo was one of the travelers and one night he locked himself in a bathroom, ignored everyone’s pleas to come out (made at Burton’s order), and spent the night on the bathroom floor. Years later I understood what he was hiding from. I think Kimo, like Brian S. was probably repeatedly molested by Burton, and couldn’t mentally handle the pain. He was probably bi-polar as well.
4
Yes, I know that for fact that there was a time when RB didn’t take calls from PB when PB was the president of the cult.
And yes, RB is vengeful.
RB does not have friends and he never had one. He using people like condoms and when condoms are used, he throws them out.
And he always was lonely even dough he surrounds himself with yang cocks, because the yang cocks are getting off prestige from been around him. No love, no friendship there.
30
Well, who knows? If Gurdjieff himself was fabricating his Bullzeboob´s language from a store banners (read J.Bennet) then I don´t see why burton could take his 44 garbach from a movie.
sorry.. ´´why burton couldn´t take´´
1. NG
Please tell me that this is not an actual transcript.
(If it is actual, why append the note “Please note that dates and numbers might be imprecise due to the highly complicated algorithms used to exponentially multiply justifications.”?)
The story stretches the limits of credulity.
Not to some of us, Tim. That’s where the boat went.
See 28 above for the scariest part.
I wondered if Abe’s son would be “groomed,” but thought I was being overly imaginative.
Yes, Tim, this is what burton became in the last 10-15 years.
And a lot of people know it’s bullshit, but they smile and eat it, priding themselves on their ability to “separate from their I’s,” thinking it’s only a test to help them separate from their rational I’s.
And if you really really succeed in this “separation” game, you are able to separate not only from your reason, but your conscience, your common sense, your sense of responsibility, and your sense that you have made a bad decision, which, after all, is only another “I.”
“Hey! Another glass of our excellent cabernet, please!”
All I can say is…“WTF?!!”
Silentpurr (#108-23 or thereabouts),
Kimo (given name, William) married Cynthia (now also deceased), but was not able to live with the situation, and left her, the property, and the FoF in 1980. I heard he became mentally unstable, ended up as a ‘street person’ in the Bay Area, and eventually died homeless and alone.
I was told he was born and raised in Japan, and spoke fluent Japanese. I also remember him as a sweet, decent person, a hard worker in the vineyard, and a sincere student in the true sense of the words.
He was not the only one pressured to be with Burton; Bruce has told of how other followers pressured him to be at Burton’s service, as “an act of external consideration for the Teacher”. There is every reason to assume the same was true for Kimo. What a disgusting misuse of the Fourth Way principle of ‘external consideration’!
At that time, and for a considerable time thereafter, the fact that Burton preyed on his male heterosexual followers was known only to his victims and a few enablers, so he and Bruce and so many others like them had no one to turn to for support. This secrecy served Burton well until about 1983. But, as it turns out, Burton’s predatory behavior rather easily became normalized, so in hindsight he needn’t have worried so much about resistance from the sheep. I myself believed he was celibate until it was announced that he was not, and I think almost everyone else not involved chose to believe the same. From that announcement (which was coupled with the propaganda that the sex was between consenting adults) the narrative progressed bit by bit over the years to where it is now assumed by the laity that Burton has every right to take what he wants, in the quantities he wants, and when he wants, and that having sex with him is even an enviable privilege, communion with an angel and ever so helpful for one’s ‘evolution’. Any thought or word of disagreement is explained as the ‘lower self’ trying to undermine spiritual progress.
On Jim Jones’s Agenda, a Prequel to Sept. 11
By SCOTT JAMES
Published: August 12, 2011 [N.Y. Times]
Excerpt:
‘“Jones planned to kill his congregation for years before Guyana,” Ms. Scheeres said. “The rank and file didn’t know about it. Only the inner circle.”
She said he abandoned his plans for murder in the Bay Area once he realized the potential of Jonestown. The remoteness of its location in the South American jungle, he figured, would allow him to do away with a thousand people at once.’
‘Ms. O’Shea was among the few church members who left Jonestown before the suicides; she had flown to San Francisco to deal with a legal matter and did not return. For nearly 30 years she kept her past a secret. She lives in western Massachusetts and has recently appeared in public to read poems she has written about Jonestown — an effort , she said, to understand why she survived while so many others died.’
Read more:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/us/12bcjames.html
Whatever you do, DO NOT DRINK THE KOOL-AID.
I still remember that horrible meeting in Egypt after the fatal car accident. He exploited the deaths of the two ladies. Meeting after meeting, nonsense after nonsense, spreading fear and doom scenarios. His techniques work.
I still remember how unhappy a young Russian guy looked. I remember him when he was imported from Russia; boyish, fragile, blond hair and blue eyes. I remember how he kept on looking more and more aloof and afraid as the years went by. His English was not that good and he was hardly communicating. A few years ago I was told he had run away while he was in a trip with Burton in NYC. He was fed up and desperate… But then he returned back. Where else could he go?
’31. Guy Grand – August 12, 2011
23.Silentpurr
In 1976 I was at the Long Island teaching house when Burton and entourage were in town. Kimo was one of the travelers and one night he locked himself in a bathroom, ignored everyone’s pleas to come out (made at Burton’s order), and spent the night on the bathroom floor. Years later I understood what he was hiding from. I think Kimo, like Brian S. was probably repeatedly molested by Burton, and couldn’t mentally handle the pain. He was probably bi-polar as well.’
REB (and others in FoF) are experts at identifying exploiting peoples’ weaknesses.
And:
41. Ames Gilbert – August 12, 2011
I agree mostly with what is stated about Kimo here. I met the guy but did not know him well. The saying was: ‘He was pushed off the deep end by too much intensive work on himself.’ But a better take on it was that the ‘fourth line of work’ was applied by REB. Where ‘fourth line of work’ is defined as work ON other people and REB is a master baiter of that.
41
“an act of external consideration for the Teacher”
Jeez, Ames, you make me sicker with every post.
42
..´´She said he abandoned his plans for murder in the Bay Area once he realized the potential of Jonestown. The remoteness of its location in the South American jungle, he figured, would allow him to do away with a thousand people at once´´
Fucking hell.. whats wrong with these people?
43
Yes, I remember that well too.
Especially disgusting was to hear abut AG sitting by the bed of a dying K. trying to pursued him to sign over his real estate to the fof.
Another early incident evidencing “trouble in Paradise”, was Tho_as Pan__ll’s apparent attempt to leave the harem. Robert personally paid a visit to the house next door demanding Ms. Starr return the teacher’s possession.
At the time, it created quite a stir at Mt. Carmel (I think it was called then), but was quickly swept under the rug. Along with others, I soon went back to my job (sleep).
’30. rich – August 12, 2011
I’ve thought on occasion , why did this charlatan choose 44 for his
propaganda purposes ?’
Found on the internet:
Where numerology and angelology meet :
‘The 44 sequence when seen repeatedly means that angels are attempting to get the attention of the person seeing it.’
‘The 4444 number sequence when seen repeatedly means that person receiving the message is an angel incarnate.’
‘When 4’s consistently appear it indicates that your angels are all around you and with you. They are offering you support and inner-strength to enable you to get the necessary work done. They understand that you are toiling towards your goal and ask that you call upon them for help, support, guidance and the emotions of love and security.
The 44 sequence indicates that the angels are surrounding you at this time, loving and supporting you. You have a very strong and clear connection with the angelic realm and are asked to use it to your advantage, and for the benefit of others.
The message of the 444 number sequence is that you have nothing to fear … all is as it should be, and all is well. Things that you have been working on or with will be successful. 444 is an indication that you are being surrounded by angels who love and support you and their help is close at hand, always.
When the number sequence 4444 appears repeatedly, it is an indication that you are surrounded by your angels. These angels are at your side to reassure you of their presence, love and help. Your angels are watching out for you and supporting you in your work and day to day life. 4444 is a message from the angels that their help is nearby and all you need to do is ask for their assistance.’
May the fours be with you.
In Fellowship of Friends – Pathway to Presence – Living Presence – Church of Robert Earl Burton magical thinking, today is August 12 = 8/12 = ate hydrogen 12; meaning to eat the energy of the sun within oneself.
How’s that for fourth way version of numerology?
‘When the 4 and 9 combination repeats, your angels are telling you that it is time to let go of a situation that has ran its course. They wish to remind you that as one door closes, another one opens. You are asked not to exert your time and efforts on staring forlornly at the closing door, rather than looking forwards to the seeing what is behind the opening door. The angels are helping you to open these new doors and to heal from any pain or sorrow that accompanies the transition that you may undergo.’
23
I worked alongside Kimo in the vineyard in the late ’70’s. I’m not sure when he left but it was sometime prior to my own leaving in 1983. Y’all know already, disowning and disavowing friends and family was, and I assume still is, part of the ‘program’ in the FOF and any ‘good student’ does his / her best to comply with the FOF requests, tasks, programming and generalized peer pressures (consciously or otherwise). Cutting off of any outside support system is another means of controlling the flock, another invisible fence to keep members from straying. (By-the-way “mr Burp” — based on your comments from a previous page, I would respectully suggest that you need to check yourself, your thinking and your flippant remarks regarding what constitutes “force” and the role that various forms of coercion can play in the subtler games of ‘mind control’ — “force” doesn’t require anything like a gun being held to the head — I won’t go into it here again, but from my personal experience I can say that there were abortions performed at the behest of “the teacher” — I’m sure his motives were various, controling reproductive rights, creating and maintaining an ‘underclass’ in the hierarchy, retribution for unrequited sexual advances toward the male partner of the couple, and etc… but I digress…).
I left the FOF with nowhere else to go so I survived for a time living on the mean streets of San Francisco where one morning I happened to run into Kimo Beech. It was a real skid-row scene, we were passing a bottle of booze around a circle with a few other homeless unfortunates. The Kimo I knew from the vineyard was so bright, articulate, charismatic even… but that Kimo was already gone — I shared the bottle that morning with a shadow of the Kimo I’d known a few years earlier. I can remember attempts to engage him based on our past shared experiences in the FOF, ‘fell on deaf ears,’ he wanted only to forget and escape…. he passed the bottle ’round to change the subject, saying: “have another drink…” It was a brief encounter, lasted only long enough to drain the bottle and then I watched as he walked away… I didn’t see him again and didn’t expect to… like I said he was already gone, far away and unreachable.
Talk of (known) suicide(s) here begs the question about all those unknown hundreds (thousands?) over the years, who left the FOF, were not able to adjust to ‘life’ and met an untimely or otherwise unfortunate end after having their soul sucked dry through entanglements with burton and ‘the school.’ There are those who, after a number of years in the FOF, are not able to so easily readjust to ‘life’ and I would guess that some may go on to live in quiet desperation, on the margins and fringes of society — as one ex ‘student’ put it many years after leaving: “I don’t know if I’ll ever live it down.” Of course there can be life beyond the fellowship but after that humiliating kick in the crotch, getting back up and learning to ride again can be daunting — the years that are taken from a life, the friendships and family bonds the are shattered in the process, this can not be replaced nor can psychological and emotional damage be easily and quickly repaired… those who came to the FOF with so much hope, promise and potential for living life to the fullest can end up slipping through the cracks and living as ‘survivors’ of a type of ‘spiritual rape’ and the psycho/emotional abuse that goes with it.
I was driving North from LA on interstate 5 last week (Aug. 1) and one of the freeway information signs flashed an Amber Alert for a child abduction in the Bay Area. The license plate of the abductors vehicle was 4WAY944.
It turned out the “abducted child” was a 16 year-old punk who had staged his abduction to coverup a robbery he was involved in. It was not revealed if he had a connection to the fellowship of Friends.
47. Tim Campion
Funny story I heard years after the D.Starr/ T.P. incident was that Ms. Starr had been an “actress” in porn films during the early 1970s. Her apparent use of certain skills in seducing one of Burton’s favorites must have made his blood boil.
Business as usual. Part 2.
For all the speculative thinkers: AG’s son was away camping when it happened. Someone went to Tahoe to drive him back home to his family.
Also, the note ‘appended’ was my personal introduction, like the following: Be prepared for this subtle in-your-face propaganda, certainly not suitable for the faint of heart.
RB: “A little more one Abe. I’m wearing the cuff-links that once belonged to him this evening. I had a beautiful dream about him: he was in the old Blake Cottage, I rushed into the bathroom and he was sitting on a ledge. He was a sweet child and he was screaming: “I don’t want to die!” So I took him in my arms and he kind of collapsed into my arms; then I put him on the bed on which I crystallize and became immortal on. I started to give him a foot massage… taking care of his soul.
I received a letter from S. explaining a few things: his great love for Influence ’C’ and myself… The pain had become too much for him to work with, he just reached his end with the ability to withstand anymore.”
1. NG
There is no adequate response to this madness yet we (I) try because we (I) need to.
“…it will be 444 days to the 21st of Dec. 2012).” And the number of the beast is 666. The address is Apollo, California.
“It is a shock from Rembrandt.” I laughed at that one, but it was a nervous laugh.
Not much has changed since I left in Feb. 2008. Same nonsense. I imagine followers listening attentively to the wisdom of the “Teacher”, trying to make sense of this pseudo-esoteric knowledge and trying to convince themselves that they understand it.
There are still some old-timers trickling out. One at a time. That’s my moto.
52 NG: “When we were coming back from lake Tahoe with his son” implies that RB returned from Tahoe with the son. Please clarify if this is not true.
RB has a history of grooming minors. I will personally be relieved if this kid isn’t on the radar screen.
52. NG
Digging yourself a hole you won’t be able to climb out of…
54
Ther is no such a thing as ´not been on the radar.
Everyone is on the radar of always hungry psychopath and it´s only a matter of time when they becoming his target.
True. But I still want an answer to my request for clarification.
#50 is new
I think that “shunning” is Robert’s and the Fellowship’s cruelest weapon. It’s a primitive means for control -probably around for thousands of generations. And it works, especially with the fearful and the vulnerable. We are all social beings and the threat of being renounced by one’s family/group/tribe can be devastating to a weakened individual.
Look, my friends, here is the scenario:
REB lives under his own different laws. There is no male child that REB lays eyes on that does not fall under his spell to groom and have sex with as soon as they are capable of ejaculating into REB’s mouth. Does it happen at a very early age? That is anybody’s quess. (Someone care to fess up here?) But this I can tell you: There are many parents that have precautionarily kept their male children at a distance, and out of sight of, REB.
Do you remember that the Lewis Carroll Elementary School used to be on the property of the Fellowship of Friends (Pathway to Presence – Living Presence – Church of Robert Earl Burton) directly across Hans Christian Andersen Way from the residence of REB? Hans Christian Andersen Way was the name of the main entry road to the FoF property at the time, where the residence of REB was #44 – O! so make believe a fairy tale. From REB’s location, with or without binoculars, the children could be watched.
In the early 1990’s, around when AG first arrived to live longterm in Oregon House and to become the Fellowship of Friends main lawyer, there was the T.B. underaged sex abuse lawsuit brought by Ford Greene. AG was to defend REB against this case, in a ‘no holds barred’ (no maneuvers prohibited) sort of fashion.
At about the same time, there was a lawsuit that AG was working, where some fellowship members were denied access to the property where they lived by the Olivehurst Gospel Assembly (OGA), whose property the access road passed first. The direct quote from REB on how to treat this case was: ‘Go for the jugular,’ as in jugular vein, that is, go for the kill. The case was won but not without significant strife for the Fellowship of Friends and REB. OGA became a thorn in the side of FoF for awhile. But that is a side story.
T.B. did not attend that elementary school, that I am aware of; he was too old. But several departments (octaves) of the Fellowship of Friends were the grounds to employ all sorts of ‘darlings’ of REB’s so that the young men were indentured servants (slaves) and were nearby for quick access for sex. T.B. was one of those.
The message from AG to REB after the TB case was: I cannot defend you against this sort of thing. (The case was settled out of court for a reported $5 million.) So, stop doing that – make sure the sex is with adaquate aged persons and consentual. Would this stop REB? Hell no! He must have his cake and eat it, too.
The way to prevent backlashes from sex partners is to compromise their ability to attack in the TB fashion. So, grooming male children of fellowship members from the time of birth, is a way to grow your own. Example: E.T. and C.C. (an REB personal secretary) had 3 children. They were considered the ‘Royal Family’ as REB doted upon them big time. Their first born male child had REB as godfather. Ownership had been established – except for the tattoo of ‘this property belongs to REB’ on the child’s buttocks. C.C. probably, eventually woke up to where this was leading. E.T. and C.C. split from Oregon House and went to live in Europe. They gave up a new home (which was across Rice’s Crossing Road from REB’s residence) that was virtually given to them along with a life where their needs were ever met by REB. E.T., likely, still is wide-eyed and naive about this from what I know – she still loves REB like a father, god, and teacher – still in a fairyland.
So, is it plausible that AG’s son could come under such perdition? What irony would that be? Defend REB under these circumstances and then have your own flesh and blood exposed? REB can plan and conive and wait patiently for years to get what he wants. The longer he waits, the more tantalizing the prey becomes. Meanwhile, what AG wanted for his child, did that matter? REB has the magic wand in one hand and a club in the other – just like REB describes of Influence C.
55. Sockpuppet – August 12, 2011
1. NG
(…): When we were coming back from lake Tahoe with his son we saw on the back of a truck: “It is written!”
(…) is not RB. He is someone else, a not recognized person talking at the meeting. RB commented right after.
They say that Charles Manson could have ruled his “cult” from prison and did for awhile.
It is said that Jeffs the fundamentalist Mormon “cultist” will be able to dictate from prison.
The mafia leaders can still rule while in prison.
Mexican gang leaders can send rules of behavior outside the prison system.
Robert E. Burton will be no different and probably will rule from the grave—the strength of cultification is beyond understanding.
Thank you for the clarification, N.G.
62. NG:
I guess I owe you an apology. This stuff is just too much
William “Kimo” Beech
Abraham Goldman
Thomas Easley
Brian Sisler
Kevin Kelly
Joseph G.
Cyclops
Susan
Nigel
Ton
Anna
Elena
Arthur
Ames G.
Richard M.
Thomas P.
Whalerider
Bruce Levy
And a ten thousand other victims…
The pain and suffering of so many derives simply from Higher Forces, C Influence. Robert Burton is merely an innocent instrument of the Gods.
Why can’t we accept that simple truth?
blog moderator… i’ve misplaced your email address, could you please email me ?
63
It is ironic, but burton have said once that Ca.l.s C.r.mcho will be his messenger on earth through whom he will continue to work with his students after departure to heaven.
No, Tim, I think that burton owe us an apology.
sorry, Ca.l.os C.r.ncho..
and by the way, this is the guy who was trusted with burton´s wallet during the travels.
NG (1): “Dorian: Three weeks ago we saw the sign:”Friend’s death”
RB: Yes, B. said it was a very frightening omen.
(…): When we were coming back from lake Tahoe with his son we saw on the back of a truck: “It is written!”
—————————————
It’s clear that Dorian shared too many details during that meeting. But he can be forgiven. When insanity becomes normalized and accepted, it’s easy to talk about it casually, and forget how bad it sounds. After all, if it’s normal, what’s there to hide?
I’m sure he realized a moment or two later that he should have kept that one to himself. But the thing is, he just had to say it. Because the fact that “his son” was in the car is exactly what made it such a frightening “shock” from Influence C. No doubt Burton had a talk with him afterward.
68 x-ray
C.C. is out of the FF. Don’t know what got him to leave. I heard that RB seemed to be grooming his son for the harem.
41. Ames
“I myself believed he was celibate until it was announced that he was not, and I think almost everyone else not involved chose to believe the same.”
When was this announced? I seem not to have heard about it; although his activities are so out of the scope of normality, that it’s amazing he even pretended to be celibate.
pastor burton: “…I had a beautiful dream about him: he was in the old Blake Cottage, I rushed into the bathroom and he was sitting on a ledge. He was a sweet child and he was screaming: “I don’t want to die!” So I took him in my arms and he kind of collapsed into my arms; then I put him on the bed on which I crystallize and became immortal on. I started to give him a foot massage… taking care of his soul.”
If we take dreams to be elements of our own psyche instead of disembodied spirits hovering over our heads at night, then pastor burton’s dream is quite revealing.
It seems apparent that in fact AG did want to die and took his own life.
It’s pastor burton who is afraid of death, hence the delusion that he is somehow immortal unlike the rest of us.
Undoubtedly, the bathroom and bedroom were his, not AG’s.
Re. 1 – NG “ He ‘kneeled’ and leaned into the noose facing east.“
Now I am confused. First I thought that burton was in Lake Tahoe with the kid. Now it seems that burton was with Abe when he supposedly hung himself. How else would burton know that Abe kneeled and leaned into the noose facing east? The plot thickens as they say.
No Renald, thats just Robert’s attempt to sew a silk purse from a hog’s ear event. If he can spin it to be ‘romantic’, the Fellowship will accept it.
What I see In his ‘revelation’ is an invitation to faltering/disheartened students to do likewise.
– stage one’s own ‘intentional’ demise!
Just “lean into the noose facing east”…. all will be well.
#66 is new
my address is; nogurus@yahoo.com
76. silentpurr
“Just ‘lean into the noose facing east’….all will be well.”
***
But don’t forget to take pills first, because “Usually one takes pills before.”
(Robert apparently being an expert on suicides.)
Shirley and Tim.
Clearly, you both have been out of the picture for a long time.
People on the blog frequently say the FOF was twisted and damaged, even from the beginning. For those close to RB the insanity goes way back, for sure. Hence, the accounts of Thomas E., Whale Rider, and others. The rest of us wonder why we didn’t know the gory details back then.
For many, however, participation in the FOF took place in outlying centers. Exposure to Robert was likely to have been limited to a dinner once or maybe twice a year – even less for those abroad. At Isis/Apollo, you would see him wandering around the garden or the Town Hall, opining with his intimates, but for the average student there was little personal contact. The hideous lavender jacket, etc., were outré, and the angles off-the-wall, but hey! That’s what it takes to “awaken,” right? You could keep the craziness at bay, back then.
That changed abruptly in 2000. Some say it was the sudden loss of his then-righthand man. GH’s stroke suddenly eliminated the backup plan and the champion most able to weave some sort of coherence out of RB’s tangled and ad hoc ideas. (He never fully recovered, and remains disabled.) Others note more darkly that insurance companies finally put the kibosh on RB’s hand in the till, demanding in return for coverage that he not have any avenues to the cash box.
I suspect it was the confluence of both events at the same time.
In any case, Burton suddenly needed to do his own self-promotion for pin-money. That’s when the bizarreness truly began for everyone. That’s when RB became unavoidable and in-your-face. That’s when the pressure to attend dinners became relentless.
That’s when FOF members began selling tickets so that you could stand and watch other people eat. Or rather, that’s the time when nobody ate, since Burton became fidgety about the dining habits of others. People might, for example, be chewing while he was emitting a pearl of wisdom. Plates of food were served and whisked away, untouched. You were advised to eat before attending.
After an unpleasant session abroad where a Russian woman asked him why he was siphoning off all the young men (another “play of crime,” I suppose), he instituted a policy of no questions at dinner. No conversation. No chewing. This is the era that launched the conversational ball game between RB and Asaf (who for all the life of him presented like a polished television emcee, standing to the side of the table with a fancy clipboard), with the unintended punchline from Robert: “As I was saying yesterday … what was I saying yesterday, Asaf?”
That’s when RB began “teaching” again. More sales, crowded rooms full of supernumeraries, a “voucher” system for those who could only pay with manual labor on their “days off.” No questions there, either. Heavily pruned “angles” from famous men were read by privileged students, selected by RB’s intimates. (It helped if you were sleeping with one of the men, ladies.)
Then the trips to Egypt where you could hear yet more angles of thought, if you hadn’t had your fill.
While you were quietly dining at the Apollo d’Oro/Lodge with friends, you might be approached three times by a different smiling woman, urging you to buy a ticket to a reception, a lunch, a dinner, a snack. When you got home, you might have a voicemail or two for another sales person, offering you the “opportunity” for refereed time with Robert.
Eventually, cameramen were needed for this show. Videos could be sold for more revenue. Somewhere in my basement, I still have a few of these novelties. The big noise was that the FOF was finally going high-tech – but of course, there is nothing particularly high-tech about home movies. That had been going on for decades. But how would they know out there in the boonies?
Oh, and if you had to work a second job on weekends to make up for your salaried position, for a small fee ($5) you could watch one of these videos on weekday lunches, sitting upstairs at the Lodge/Apollo d’Oro. Silently sitting at a table with your friends, munching your quiche, you could watch closeups of RB babbling on a huge – and I mean huge – screen.
At least you were allowed to chew. That alone made it a bargain.
Re. 76 – Silenpurr “ What I see In his ‘revelation’ is an invitation to faltering/disheartened students to do likewise.
– stage one’s own ‘intentional’ demise!“
Ahhh! It`s all coming back now. So that was the reason that he and his followers stand with their heads cocked to one side. They are rehearsing their final moment, loose as a goose in a noose, facing east of course.
Cheers!
I can’t remember the author but “east” is supposed to represent the source of esoteric truth.
Armando (79),
That was really an eye-opening and amazing post.
79. Armando
I thank you for your attempt to enlighten Shirley and me. Now I have to step away from the computer, go outside and breath some fresh air. Because what you are describing is Hell on Earth.
I hope that you have long since left the compound.
Do Fellowship of Friends members understand that their very proximity to the man feeds the insanity? Do they understand they are responsible? Without their presence, he would be nothing.
re 79 – Armando – You forgot to mention that as the events multiplied there was an even greater demand for people to fill the serving octaves, waiters, pot washers, dish washers, etc, etc. So as well as those requests for money there were tons of additional requests for our time. I remember a call from Peter B. “ Robert has requested that you take on the octave of washing pots at the Lincoln Lodge.“
At the time I was already washing pots at the Academy (Galeria or whatever he decides to call it that month). Knowing that and the fact that neither of them would have been able to point me out in a crowd of three, I immediately told him I was not interested. Like you said I also had a second job in the evenings to help make ends meet, picking up the empty viagra boxes from the side area where the trash was dumped, for example.
So after all that it was certainly a refresher to attend the weekly receptions and during all the years that these were going on (and they kept happening even when burton was traveling) I rarely missed attending. I remember enjoying meeting and speaking to visitors.
I felt that my duty was to offer them some balance to the otherwise skewed indoctrinating drivel. At least one of those visitors appreciated my effort because she came back for another visit a couple years later when I was single and harvested me for a husband.
I rambled, sorry!
Cheers!
79. Armando
Thank you for your vivid description. I can’t tell you how glad I am that I missed all of that, by having left the FF so long ago. I’ve recently been hearing about vouchers, paying for meetings and dinners, all-male orgies in something called a cellar (?), meetings where whoever Asaf is stands with a clipboard reminding RB what he’s supposed to say. Ugh. How do people stand it, and remain in the FF? Maybe many of them feel they have nowhere else to go, because every part of their lives has been infiltrated by the FF.
It’s clear that RB’s main obsessions are to have a continuous revenue stream, even though it impoverishes his devotees; and to inhale an equally continuous stream of young men, spit them back out, and and ignore the psychological effects it has on those men. (And we’ve mentioned STD’s, and possibly worse, several pages back.)
I’ve often thought that RB’s callous attitude towards how desperate his teaching payments/special donations made most students was, in fact, just another way that he could maintain control over them. In many countries, women are deprived of an education and can’t work, so they are forced into a life of dependency and servitude.
4. fofblogmoderator – Thank you.
fofblogmoderator, I meant 6., not 4.
1. NG
The transcript of RB said reads like a combination of vapid nothings and an attempt to force numerological interpretations on every possible incident. One good thing about being out of the FF for awhile is that RB’s words no longer have power of me, and I think, “Enough already. Stop foisting superstitious beliefs on everyone.” It took me several years, post-FF, to stop reacting to every sighting of a “44.”
RB isn’t the first person to invest specific numbers, like 44, with loaded meaning. In the west, 13 is an unlucky number. The Chinese don’t care about 13. They care about 4 (not good, because it = death), and 8 (good, because it symbolizes wealth, so they try to get their phone numbers and house addresses to contain lots of 8’s). Are these “objective”? Whether they are or not, it is we ourselves who attach significance to specific numbers. Before we joined the FF, who the hell cared about 44?
And the ridiculous license plate “signs from above.” I remember, at a meeting in the early-mid 1970s, when RB mentioned a license plate he or someone had seen that said ALLDONE; its significance was that someone had just left the FF who had a name that sounded like All Done. There was the usual dismissive comment about that guy not being on the way.
72
Yes, I know that. But he was burton´s right hand for many many years. But obviously he didn’t learn much in his 15 plus years around him, if after leaving one cult leader, he going straight to another one. He and his wife were looking pitiful on the stage with this charlatan who had his kundalini active for 5 years in his ass.
They so pathetic, all of them.. disgusting..
8. Man Without a Name
“Others also leave the FOF feet first: Those who are driven or hectored to their deaths. Those who don’t have adequate health care, and die because they tried some flakey kiwi-and-fruitcake diet to cure brain cancer. Or who were told by an alternative doctor they didn’t have a tumor, they had a “health bump” or something – that’s easier to believe when you don’t have any health insurance…..”
That’s right. When you don’t have medical/dental insurance, you neglect your health, and you don’t do the preventative check-ups. It’s one thing to be in your 20s and 30s and have few health concerns. Neglecting your body’s pains and “odd” symptoms when you’re in your 50s, and above, or, at any age, if they are possible indications of systemic disease like cancer, is courting a downward spiral.
79 Armando
Yes, every word in his post is true. I was there at that time. I wonder if we were chewing together at the same table observing zombies going upstairs.
But let me add one more thing which some of you may not know.
Have you ever heard how ´´robert is unidentified with his instinctive center which shows in his full, almost untouched plates of food at his dinner?
Well, let me tell you a little dirty secret.
Before those dinners or sometimes after, he and his cocks are eating like a PIGS in TV room, smashing full plates of food with their hands. When you see that once, after seeing bob at his dinners where he all ´´intentional´´ you know, all illusions of the conscious bob are melts away leaving you with painful truth.
71
Yes, I think you´ve just described the very root of the problem in cults, and this the insanity which has become a norm.
1. NG – August 12, 2011
! This sentence RB said at his Abe memorial meeting:
(…): When we were coming back from lake Tahoe with his son we saw on the back of a truck: “It is written!”
(Abraham’s son?) Abe’s son now is 16 years old – and what is written?? Does anyone knows something about to whom RB refers?
Just a thought: Back in February-March or so this discussion group/blog was averaging about 5 posts per day. Since July 31, the day of Abe`s death, it is averaging 33.9 posts per day. The last two days alone we have seen 90 posts.
I am wondering how this translates in terms of hits and what the possible ripple effects might be.
Cheers!
Since it`s calculator time I figured out how much it is costing me in retirement pension income to have been in the fof. Starting 1 year ago I began drawing $8,500. per year. Joining meant that I had to quit my job since there was no center where I lived. The long term effect of that was that I lost over $33,000. per year at today`s rates.
If I live another 18 years, again at today`s rates and not taking inflation increases into consideration, I will have by then lost $660,000. All told if I wanted just for fun to include lost wages I would be looking at another $900,000. if I had worked at the same job till I turned 63 which is what some of my co-workers did.
I am not crying or whining. It was my doing. The reason I post this info is so that if there happens to be some young members who are considering moving to Oregon House and going on salary there long term, and they can`t really know for sure how long they will be there, that they could be losing big time financially. Trying to eek out a living on $715. a month is no picnic even in Mexico.
Cheers!
90. Alider
Do you live under a rock?
86. eX-brain
“Yes, every word in his post is true. I was there at that time. I wonder if we were chewing together at the same table observing zombies going upstairs.”
Yes, of course, you were different, you were not one of them. Your denial winning-streak hasn’t stop in the FoF.
79. Armando
Yes , I remember it too. I remember thinking: “What a bunch of losers!”
79. Armando
“Then the trips to Egypt where you could hear yet more angles of thought, if you hadn’t had your fill.”
I just read some blog posts from early 2010 and saw comments about regular trips to Egypt. What was that all about? How did people scrape up the money to pay for those trips?
92. Renald
I’m glad you posted that. It’s one of the sobering realities of leaving the FF, where many people find themselves broke, and need to start all over and feel out of touch with the outside world.
Me.gnowme@verizon.net (# 108-50 or thereabouts),
thank you for sharing your story, including more about Kimo. You are right, most of those reading and writing this blog have no idea what happened to those who were left more severely damaged by their experiences in the Fellowship of Friends. Like Kimo and countless others, these people just more or less quietly left, and we heard no more about them. The ones that left less quietly were just escorted off the property by honchos like Grant Ramey, taken to the bus station in Marysville, and that was the last most of us heard of them. In the case of others, it might have taken me months to register that they were gone if I didn’t work with them on salary on a regular basis. Then there was all the movement to various centers; new ones were being opened, often on different continents, and we were always busy, busy, busy. This made it very hard to keep track, and after a while, I didn’t even bother, frankly. But the fact is, every one who left had a history, before during and after the FoF. Some of those stories are here on these blog pages, but most are not. I feel I was one of the luckiest ones. I don’t feel I suffered too much, I had the support of friends and family, I had a job, there were supportive ex-members who were willing to reach out and help, so I had a relatively soft landing. I feel I healed and got over the experience in a healthy way some time ago, and didn’t have to spend an exorbitant amount of time doing so. I don’t have much left to process about the experience, and I’m here mostly to try to prevent prospective members from joining in the first place. But when folks like you post, it not only reminds me of my relative good fortune, but also of those who were less fortunate, those who didn’t have my share of good luck, those who didn’t have a clear way forward out of the mess. And, I’ll never get to know the stories or fates of most who passed through. All that is in my power, and that is very little, is to try to prevent others from joining the Fellowship of Friends.
Renald, (#108-75 or thereabouts),
don’t be confused. Just assume that every word that drifts by whatever means from Burton’s fantasy world to yours is lying rhinoshit. He can say whatever he wants because there is no feedback. If I tell a lie, there is a fairly good chance that someone (usually my wife!) will call me on it, whether it is direct or indirect. In a situation where no-one ever dares to call him on his rhinoshit (for example myself when I heard him claim he was a ‘900 million year–old goddess trapped in a man’s body’, or any other unverifiable claim), in fact his followers leap to supply justifications or missing information in order to ‘make sense’ (e.g., it is just a test, it’s ‘crazy wisdom’, ‘I’ll put that on the back burner’, or anything to buffer the fact it is complete nonsense). Thus, each time he gets away with some bizarre line, he is tacitly given permission to go further. At some point, in my opinion, he came to actually believe the garbage himself and took it for reality. Outside his fantasy world, the conversation in #1 above would be peppered with, “How could you possibly know? How could we possibly verify that? Why are you telling us this stuff?” and such, and it would grind to an embarrassing halt after the first few sentences. But Burton has gone far beyond accepting feedback or tolerating anything but the most fawning questions, let alone dissent.
Armando, (#108-79 or thereabouts),
thanks for updating us about the current way of life in the Fellowship of Friends, and for reminding us of the differences between life at The Farm/Via del Sol/Renaissance/ Apollo/Isis/ Apollo and the ‘outlying centers’.
This reminds me of one of the many methods Burton takes to keep the followers who don’t live in Oregon House closely bound in his fantasy, that of sending “Guest Travelling Teachers” from headquarters to update the doctrines and reinforce the memes and refresh the themes. And apparently nowadays that includes fundraising.
From the Guide to Travelling Teachers (I’d guess this was about 2006):
Part 7: Center Packages and Isis Auctions
History
What some of the newer directors may not know is that the origin of the Center Packages is related to the Auctions at Isis. The Teacher instituted the auctions four times a year as means to beautify Isis. In exchange for emotional events with students, artwork, books, teaching materials and many other items, students could provide funds for the Teacher’s projects. Some projects include the Theatron, the Emerald Oasis, Abundance Garden, the beautiful roads, and many other smaller projects. The Teacher sets the target at each Auction to be $150,000. He asked that the students at Isis carry the burden of 93% and the centers around the world to carry 7%, or $10,000. It is the responsibility of the Teacher to set goals that seem too far to reach, if he is to help the school change its level of being.
In return, the centers would receive Teaching materials specifically selected with the aim of being current and relevant for the students around the world. The task was to spread the price of the center package around the world in a fair way. Based on many factors, including economic conditions, numbers of students and willingness to pay, the prices were established. As of May 1, 2006, new pricing for the Center Packages has been developed.
As GTT, you may help the center and the directors take advantage of the Center Packages by promoting the materials during your visit, and perhaps creating events around the materials for the centers.
“Drop by Drop fills the Ocean”
This thought from Buddha opens the way for the centers to use the Center Packages. Weekly events with the students in the center, where an additional $1 is collected and put aside, will easily provide the means for the centers to pay for the Center Packages. More importantly, it will provide time for students to be together and promote more presence. These events ideally will be showings of the materials from the center packages, other DVD’s from the Teacher, dinning (sic) events, and so on. The possibilities are endless and they increase when we are together. The Center Package are wonderful materials to be viewed more than once and together. The “Traveling with Robert” videos provide insight into the daily moments of a conscious being.
(Note the misspelling of ‘dining’ above; as spelt, one meaning is, “to instill into a person by constant repetition” . . . )
________________
In my day, a typical scam went as follows. The centers were requested to scour antique shops looking for Meissen china. Usually these were found as individual pieces, and would be bought by the center with funds raised from followers in that center. From time to time, a collection of pieces would be shipped to Renaissance, as it was called then. There, complete sets would be assembled, and these sets would be shipped back to the various centers, who would be required to pay for them all over again at an inflated price. This method was also used with cameos when they were the fashion; cameos would be bought and sent to Renaissance, and then Burton would give them out to lucky ladies, who were expected to pay several times what they originally cost back to Burton. But that was just a preliminary warm–up to the scope and volume of present fundraising.
_________________
Whatever the method of creative fundraising, I would bet that an equally creative method of bookkeeping is involved. Probably many transfers of funds come under the heading of ‘gifts’ of one kind or another to avoid the scrutiny of the IRS. And I’d guess that most of the funds raised that Armando mentions probably go directly to Burton’s pocket to cover his enormous expenses and feed his gargantuan appetites. Clothing, feeding and shipping the cluster of individual sperm banks around the globe must be incredibly expensive.
’85. Shirley – August 14, 2011
And the ridiculous license plate “signs from above.” I remember, at a meeting in the early-mid 1970s, when RB mentioned a license plate he or someone had seen that said ALLDONE; its significance was that someone had just left the FF who had a name that sounded like All Done. There was the usual dismissive comment about that guy not being on the way.’
They don’t call them ‘Vanity Plates’ for nothing. In the automobile licensing and registration world, that is the term for plate numbers and/or letters that people select for themselves.
Did people know that, due to a serious car accident, REB has a plate in his head. Perhaps that is why he has this magical/marginal thinking going on – brain damage.
’95. Shirley – August 14, 2011
I just read some blog posts from early 2010 and saw comments about regular trips to Egypt. What was that all about? How did people scrape up the money to pay for those trips?’
People are told to get as many credit cards as possible, max them out to the credit limits, then declare bankruptcy – then start all over again. This is one of REB’s wealth building schemes (or, is that: ‘wealth building screams?’). Same applied to all other cash demand activities: teaching payments, special donations, spring and fall (once winery) donations, holiday donation, costs for all events/activities with REB, fundraising raffles and auctions, purchase of teaching materials (videos, audios, books, ‘Center Packages,’ etc.), Traveling Teachers, visits to other centers and/or Oregon House, direct gifts to REB, etc.
_________________
Got this idea from Ames’ 97 post:
Here’s a tip to FoF to raise more money (and raise other things): Get a license, and a trained and licensed staff, for sperm collection for a sperm bank. REB is doing it any way, so just put it to good use. Try auctioning off the best to the highest bidders. Solicit non-member notables to make donations in the interest of charitable and spiritual purposes. Start with Arnold S. This could be the next best thing since the vineyard and winery or the auctions!
98 I’ll never tell
’95. Shirley – August 14, 2011
I just read some blog posts from early 2010 and saw comments about regular trips to Egypt. What was that all about? How did people scrape up the money to pay for those trips?’
People are told to get as many credit cards as possible, max them out to the credit limits, then declare bankruptcy – then start all over again. This is one of REB’s wealth building schemes (or, is that: ‘wealth building screams?’).’
Yes, the principle is to ‘give and not count the cost’, put Presence above everything and other such guff. A lot of pressure was brought to bear on students to attend the Jouney Forth by Days and trips to Turkey and Eygpt etc, and I know some who had to give up jobs to get the time off, hit their credit cards hard or even beg for money off their parents.
I remember rooming with the Centre Director on an Egyptian package. He had to have a ‘superior room’ and I think the cost was somewhere in the region of $2100 for 4 days. It was a chain hotel in Cairo and I doubt the rooms could have cost more than $175 per night so the FoF charge was around 70% pure profit.
Another longer trip to Turkey cost approximately the same. There was a bus with about 20, mostly Robert’s army of boys with I think, 6 or 7 of us fellow-travellers. I remember buying an English newspaper and taking back on the bus [my job at the time required me to keep abreast of global events] amid horrified looks from the inner circle. There was some kind of announcement from the front end of the bus about not ‘mixing influences’ while on the trip so I had to sneak the paper out of my bag surreptitiously from then on! It felt like a kind of suicidal rejection of ‘Life’ at the time, and I saw why the lack of any balance causes such severe problems, financial and psychological.
Towards the end, there were a number of us in the Centre who left around the same time. Burton was swinging round to the Centre regularly and the Fellowship salemen were upping the ante. There was one dinner where they just couldn’t fill all the seats – about 35-40 – and they’d sold 8. None of us would stump up the $150 and Burton’s messengers effectively communicated his irritability with the situation! As the salesmen haggled and haggled, offering discounts and vouchers to puit bums on seats, I realised I was getting my sense of choice back. No more seats were sold, there was one last annoyed message from Robert, and 3 or 4 of us left the Centre soon after. It was a defining moment.
The system idea that ‘the lower cannot see the higher’ seems to have been a main ingredient in the Kool-Aid cocktail I drank as a student. This intoxicating elixir is served at the first prospective student meeting in innocuous-looking teacups, and most days after that in one form or another. I used to be a major supplier.
Presto! The cult, the teacher, designated higher-ups, and even one’s self are magically immunized against criticism from below. From the perspective of one’s ‘lower level of being’ on the scale of 1 through 10, one can’t rightly understand or criticize what can’t be ‘seen’.
This magical thinking creates and supports the delusional wild-west free-for-all of warped morality and ethics that we read about on these pages.
Although I rejected this idea on my way out, I still feel its influence. My personality uses it reflexively when it needs to feel superior. It seems harmless enough: “He/She/They can’t see who or what I am.”
But this vain thought also gives rise to a smug feeling of faux compassion for those ‘lower on the evolutionary scale,’ as well as a sense of exclusivity, entitlement, and moral license.
Self-knowledge, indeed! “Lord, what fools these mortals be!”
Having been sensitized to it, I see more clearly how pervasive this type of magical thinking is in society at large. Cults are everywhere.
From the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky Centers (old Fellowship of Friends) website:
From the same website:
***
I came across this interesting questionnaire for those considering leaving a cult. It’s old, and targeted to a different group, but there are enough pertinent questions to stir up some critical thinking.
Renald (91),
Re: Postal activity.
Could it be from the full moon?
Thank you all for your heartfelt posts.
The accounts of fund raising techniques for pastor burton’s rape factory remind me of a a follower I met once who had been in Alex Horn’s cult and the “Theater of All Possibilities”. He told me that Horn made his followers sell tickets to the plays as a condition of membership. If each performance wasn’t sold out, he threatened to shut down the group, employing fear of abandonment, which is very motivating for a person with dependency issues. pastor burton uses a similar technique when he talks about the “pace” of his cult is “quickening”.
renald, I owe you an apology for not speaking out when I left. I was still suffering from the cult enhanced narcissism that it wasn’t my problem…every man for himself.
100. My2Bits
One of the things that used to piss me off about RB was when he would pull some kind of bull shit out of his ass on a subject he knew nothing about. If you carefully and respectfully (or blatantly and obviously) pointed out his error he would say “When your level of being changes, goodness, you’ll see that I’m right”. He was and is such a putz.
93 mr. fart
what a shmuck! it´s unbelievable…
btw, mr. fart, if you want to make a comment, you are welcome, but I suggest you pull your head out of your ass first, so it won´t stink so much.
In any case, you won´t make any sense whatsoever, simply because you are a stupid scumbag, but at least, you´ll do some progress..
#101 is new
Nobody will ever know how many fof’s are depressed, tried a suicide attempt and are now on anti depressant or numbing themselves with alcohol, work, third line of work, shopping etc. Nobody will know.
Mental Health in Yuba city/ Grass Valley.
Nobody will know how many parents suffered from children leaving their home land to go to Ca….Nobody.
Heal/ heal/ heal
I feel I should follow up my previous post after reading your comments to that — thank Ames. Because it paints a bleak, sad and depressing picture, I had some misgivings about posting #50. Kimo’s story (as it turns out) appears to involve a tragic ending, he, like B-i-a-n S-, A-t-o-y, Abe, and others are extreme cases of the tragedy that can befall those who cross paths with burton and the FOF. I didn’t express it very well in the ‘dramatic’ retelling of what was intended for readers ‘of today’ to be a ‘cautionary tale’ from the past — the intention was not necessarily to elicit a sympathetic response although that’s an understandable reaction, and it certainly was not told to elicit a patronizing response. I count my blessings and consider myself fortunate enough to have survived a personal ordeal in leaving the FOF. Having to ‘bootstrap’ my way back to living life helped in shaping a perspective which wouldn’t have developed otherwise –and yes, I can be grateful for that experience (in the film Little Big Man, on his supposed deathbed, Grandfather offers up a prayer to the Great Spirit: “thank you for my victories and my defeats…”). Personally I believe everything happens for a reason and the episode in my life with the FOF is no exception…. there were (and are) precedents and antecedents involved and these don’t go away, they go into the blend which is (and becomes) the Self — everything is still there (here) and because something happened in the past doesn’t mean it just ‘goes away.’ In this regard, it may be a matter of semantic differences but my feeling is that “processing” is ongoing through-out a lifetime… and maybe it goes beyond a lifetime if there is anything that follows life as we know it (?). To imply that you’ve finished processing something and that you’re here for the benefit of others is all-well-and-good and a noble gesture, but I would respectfully suggest that this too is a “processing” of the experience. For your part in the larger (and smaller) process, thank you.
Addendum to post #50 — obviously not all FOF ex-pats had, or have such a dramatic or tragic biography as reflected in my previous post, but that doesn’t negate the impact on a life which comes out of an encounter with the FOF. Everyone is different, some have relatively “soft-landings” as indicated by Ames, and I think this is more of a general possibility nowadays than it may have been in the past, especially thanks to the community of ex-FoF folks that has grown around sites like this — whatever the case, what I would have liked to have reflected or suggested (differently) in my previous post #50 is the range of effects the FOF has on the lives of ex (and current) “students.” Renald gives one good example in post # 92 where he calculates lost wages based on time spent ‘in the fold.’ This is just one ‘practical’ consideration of the larger ‘side effects’ of any involvement in the FoF. In most cases of those who came to the FoF and left, the side effects are much less dramatic than the story of Kimo Beech for example, nevertheless there are consequences and ‘side effects’ which continue to impact individual lives post FoF. It is easy to imagine what would have, or could have been different today if another path were taken but the fact of the matter is, a path was taken and there are consequences to live with as a result; unfortunate or fortunate as the consequences may be, I would emphasize in writing this that although life has it’s tragic side, “silver linings” can be discerned even in living through difficult circumstances and that’s what I would focus on (a point that was left out of my previous post #50). Anyway, in certain respects it’s those damned unforeseen consequences which keeps life interesting. The sad and dismal tone of my post #50 is what I’d hoped to balance out a bit here so toward that end I would say in my own case, speaking for myself, that even though leaving the FoF was difficult and much more of a “crash landing” than a soft one, I did survive it and feel that I’ve managed to become a (relatively) productive and happy individual who enjoys life and living. The old saying “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” seems to apply, and because of having lived through and survived the FOF experience, I have a gratitude for the gift of being alive which I wouldn’t otherwise have. The point I would like to make here is that through the struggles of life, dig deep enough and you’ll find a well of hope that feeds the human spirit .
Carl,
May I add to that? Some people think I had a “soft landing.” They have no idea. They really have no idea.
I choose not to dwell on the horror story. I choose not to see myself as a victim. I got out. I’m extremely lucky in that. My post-FOF life has been the happiest time of my life. Gratitude, as you say, helps.
That said, I would never, ever underestimate the psycho-spiritual destruction and abuse that occurs in the FOF on a daily basis. Or rather, as Gurdjieff would say, “not daily, but hourly.”
I say this to the fence-sitters out there: You really can decide to make the rest of your life the best of your life. Doesn’t matter how old you are; doesn’t matter how poor you are. But first you have to get off your rump.
Then you have to stay off it long enough to reestablish your life along new lines. Think of it as a test of character.
Remember what you all used to say in there so often? “Truth above friendship.” Stop lying to yourselves.
My experience was of a hard landing, followed years later by, “and time heals all wounds”.
Re. 103 – Whalerider “ Renald………..“
It is still every man for himself, though not every man against himself like what we were taught. That is why we (I, it is all the same in the end) need to clean the old programs. When you become happier with yourself it will reflect in my world (it already has). Unlike the crap we accepted, gratitude for example is a perfume. Gratitude feels good and can become habitual. Forgiving oneself leads to gratitude and gratitude opens the door to love. It just does not get any better.
Cheers indeed !!!
Re. 111 – Arthur – a little story:
Autumn Storm said…
A little story:
Once upon a time there was an island where all the feelings lived; happiness, sadness, knowledge, and all the others, including love.
One day it was announced to all of the feelings that the island was going to sink to the bottom of the ocean. So, all the feelings prepared their boats to leave.
Love was the only one that stayed. She wanted to preserve the island paradise until the last possible moment. When the island was almost totally under water, love decided it was time to leave. She began looking for someone to ask for help.
Just then Richness was passing by in a grand boat. Love asked, “Richness, Can I come with you on your boat?”
Richness answered, “I’m sorry, but there is a lot of silver and gold on my boat and there would be no room for you anywhere!”
Then Love decided to ask Vanity, who was passing by in a beautiful vessel, for help.
Love cried out, “Vanity, help me please!”
“I can’t help you,” Vanity said, “You are all wet and will damage my beautiful boat!”
Next, Love saw Sadness passing by.
Love said, “Sadness, please let me go with you!”
Sadness answered, “Love, I’m sorry, but, I just need to be alone now!”
Then, Love saw Happiness.
Love cried out, “Happiness, please take me with you!”
But Happiness was so overjoyed that he didn’t hear Love calling to him.
Love began to cry.
Then, she heard a voice say, “Come, Love, I will take you with me!”
It was an elder.
Love felt so blessed and overjoyed that she forgot to ask the elder his name.
When they arrived on land the elder went on his way. Love realized how much she owed the elder.
Love then found Knowledge and asked, “Who was it that helped me?”
“It was Time,” Knowledge answered.
“But why did Time help me when no one else would?” Love asked.
Knowledge smiled and with deep wisdom and sincerity, answered, “Because only Time is capable of understanding how great Love is!”
I found this little story within one minute of reading your post.
It was on a blog called “ The Decadent Autumn Storm“
Cheers!
Renald (113),
I enjoyed that insightful story, thanks!
98, 99 I’ll Never Tell, Nick B –
I can’t remember if we were actively encouraged to get as many credit cards as possible and max out their limits, back when I was in the FF. However, people did. For one thing, it was a way of “keeping up with the FF Joneses.” (How else were you going to afford everything, in a group that encouraged a “refined” lifestyle?) I don’t remember declaring bankruptcy as being part of the “cycle” way back then. Nevertheless, the teaching payments/special donations ate up so much of one’s net income, that it didn’t leave much for rent, food, clothing (don’t forget, they had to be silk and cashmere), car payments, and so on. In other words, a lot of people were living way beyond their means.
Did it occur to any one to leave the FF because the teaching payments were a primary cause of one’s marginal financial situation? Of course not. TPs/SDs were supposed to take priority in one’s life. On a side note, the prediction of the depression in 1984 made for some insane stockpiling by students. The best thing that prediction (which did not come true) did for me was that I cut up my credit cards, paid off my debts, and never slid into that habit again.
It just appalls me to read #98/99’s descriptions about the money-making machinery in the FF. It sounds like it escalated out of all semblance of self-respect, not that there might have been anything to respect in the first place. It’s like that cliche (which I know were frowned upon, in the FF), “You say jump, and I say, ‘how high?'” So RB throws out some vast $$ figure that he wants raised, and a bunch of students start figuring out “creative” ways to get to the target amount by offering more and more diluted goods (meaningless meetings and dinners; bloated costs for trips to Egypt). Students accept it because they must, if they’re going to live with themselves by remaining in the FF. Even though there must be a lot of financial desperation in students, there is probably an equal amount of desperation to reconcile the outlandish requests for money, the feeling that one has been ‘fleeced,’ and an uneasy sense that the ‘teaching’ has become diluted to the point of nonexistence. They ask themselves where the “esoteric” is, within the FF; you end up reading post #1’s transcription of RB holding forth on mystical numbers and interpretations of AG’s death, and the whole thing boggles the mind. Why do people stay? (That’s a rhetorical question. I have a few friends still in the FF, and I can’t figure out the answer.)
Clichés frowned upon in the FOF, Shirley? You must be joking.
“Form of the School,” “released by Higher Forces,” “beloved teacher,” “precious teaching,” valuation, “instinctive friction,” shock, “it is written,” “we thank thee.”
Just go through NG post at the top of this page with a red marker.
The FOF admires them so much it has created a whole lexicon of new ones, to keep people from actually thinking outside the familiar grooves, and wondering how the hell they got here.
115. Shirley
At the Ranch, especially with those who he was frequently around and had substantial money(which is redundant in itself), or wherever RB was traveling (up through the mid 80’s when I left) he most certainly did tell directly, and indirectly (through the flying monkeys) to run up debt on cards and not to worry because of the coming “Fall”. And the bankruptcy thing is also true, although it was a relatively short fad until, I suspect, someone pointed out some arguments against the tactic. But some happily did it. It’s ironic that he spends so much time taking it up the ass, all the while pulling his “teaching” out of the same orifice.
97. Ames – I’m starting to sound like someone else here on the blog, but reading some of your #97 examples of fund-raising really makes me want to puke.
My office building is across the street from Madoff’s former office (which was included in the first few minutes of the recent movie called Wall Street). Everyone now knows Madoff ran a Ponzi scheme. That explains the mechanism of what he cleverly operated. But what astonished people, when the news first came out, was how nice and affable B. Madoff was, and how he had this air of “je ne sais quoi” about him that made wealthy people & institutions want to invest in his funds. He made people feel like they were privileged to have him accept your money. People were shocked that Madoff’s calm facade hid, for decades, a deliberate scam of fleecing people, often ruining their entire life savings. People were stunned to find that B. Madoff had no conscience. We ask whether RB has one.
Along those lines, in reading 97, 98 and 99, and other posts on how many students forked out so much money (that probably put them deep in debt) to help finance RB’s lifestyle, I keep coming back to the disturbing thought that RB failed his students in many ways. Not only are we scratching our heads about his “teachings.” But many of us probably looked up to him as a father figure who had our best interests at heart. (If not a father figure, then something like that.) When RB not only does not care whether his many students are going broke, but continues to ask for more money, it is a clear indication that he does not care. (The party line must be something like, It’s all for building The School.)
Bingo!
116, 119 William – the problem with cliches is that they were deemed to be “formatory.” As you point out, RB and the FF spew out their own version of cliches. Unlike many cliches, though, the bland, repetitive stuff that comes out of RB don’t even deliver kernels of truth. Many of them are unverifiable statements that build on themselves.
117. Bruce – He was so predictable, when it came to money. He liked a person if they had money or power or “class.”
I still have the reply letter from when I asked to take a leave of absence to put my financial affairs in order:
“I feel a leave of absence would only serve to strengthen the attempt by the instinctive centre and the feature of feminine dominance to strip the School from your grasp. Therefore, you will need to work with the requirement of not falling more than 14 weeks behind with donations; should you become further behind with donations, you would be required to make a re-entry donation before returning.
“If you would like to try to work out some schedule of donations [and here is where the credit card comes in] to allow you to catch up over time, I am sure we can work together on it. As Marcus Aurelius said, ‘In everything, look to the end.’ The end is clear here.”
I’ll bet the letters sound pretty similar 25 years later. Required donations. Oxymoronic b.s. Where is the IRS when you need it?
Part 105 Post 93. WhaleRider
“Dear Board Members of the International Council of Community Churches (ICCC) and the California Council of Churches:
As you may or may not be aware, your organization has within its ranks a quasi-church known most recently as “Living Presence” and formally known as “Pathway to Presence” and as the “Fellowship of Friends”. The group displays its affiliation with your organization in its online advertising here: http://livingpresence.com/who-we-are/Fellowship-of-Friends.html
What you do not know is that the founder and pastor of this corrupt, hedonistic cult, Mr. Robert E. Burton, regularly has sex with multiple male members of his flock, uses his position of power to live a lavish and expensive lifestyle, and has had a civil law suit filed against him for having sex with an under-aged boy infecting him with the herpes virus, which settled out of court for an undisclosed sum of money whereby all are sworn to secrecy. The details of the suit, a matter of public record are here…”
***
Well, what do you know. Apparently, the Fellowship is no longer a member of the California Council of Churches!
From Living Presence:
“The Fellowship of Friends is registered as a 501(c)(3) California non-profit church organization and is a member of the International Council of Community Churches (ICCC).”
One lie down. How many more to go?
120. Shirley
One man’s “class” is another man’s trash.
115. Shirley – August 14, 2011:
‘an uneasy sense that the ‘teaching’ has become diluted to the point of nonexistence.’
At one time (and, I do not know how it is now), for a few years, if you lived in Oregon House, there was no opportunities for a ‘teaching’ in return for your regular required teaching payment ‘donations.’ In order to make the ‘teaching’ only available from the events with REB (so that you had to pay, again, in some way to attend those), all other regular ‘teaching’ type meetings were stopped. Basically, it became a church without any circumstances to worship – in the classical or ordinary sense of a religious practice. This was REB’s strategy to transfer the cash flow engine to himself, solely, by providing the captive audience only one source of the ‘precious wisdom.’ This was the ultimate application of: ‘do not cast your pearls before swine’ maneuvers. (You could, however, earn access to the REB events by your labor in the way of voucher(s). Where vouchers represented the Fellowship of Friends alternative monetary system with REB being the sole redeemer for the vouchers. However, this ‘alternative monetary system’ lead to a significant grey market in which vouchers were used for many unauthorized purposes of commerce; like, as posted on this blog earlier, vouchers being used to pay for sex and other ‘favours.’ (When REB found sympathy and allegiance from the Romanian sociopathic inner circle, he put them to good use with some unpredictable results.))
And, BTW, there was that phase where people were told to cleanse their libraries of all ‘work’ books of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Collin, Nicoll, etc.
P.S.: During that phase, it was even forbidden to mention the names of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Collin, Nicoll, etc., or to quote them.
It’s good to see the old blog here is still going strong. I check in every now and then, usually just to see what the latest news and gossip is from the FOF. As someone mentioned a while back, there has been quite an uptick in comments since the news about A.G.’s suicide. If nothing else good comes out his death at least it might shake some of the FOFers out of their stupor and act as a catalyst to help them find their way out. I wouldn’t be surprised if those who are having doubts would look here on the blog, so it’s good to see some real quality posts recently that might be helpful in that regard.
I would also like to express my appreciation to those who provide the inside information from the FOF that most of us don’t have access to. And also thank you to the moderator who has kept this thing going.
116, 119, 120, etc.
It helps if a cliché is true, of course – that tends to prolong its life. But it need not be true to be a cliché. It’s simply a word or phrase that once may have conveyed novel meaning or import, that is then used so repeatedly that it prevents thinking rather than stimulating it. That’s why it’s important to nail them for what they are.
Look at the word “valuation.” It’s a word that has real meaning, and helped us at one point to establish our priorities – but pretty soon it was used ritually to browbeat and impose conformity. If you had “valuation,” you coughed up 150 quid for the London dinner Nick Bishop referred to earlier.
(Salvador Dalí: “The first man to compare the cheeks of a young woman to a rose was obviously a poet; the first to repeat it was possibly an idiot.”)
Here’s why it matters: If you stop watching how language is being used to manipulate you, you can even read passages like this without laughing:
With gobbledygook like that, any piece of nonsense that you see from Robert is a priori explained away. You no longer expect to hear anything wise or admirable, or even coherent, from the man who is a Fourth Way “Teacher.” You accept that he’s just the mad uncle in the attic.
If you begin thinking like this, you think AG died because of “instinctive friction.” A more careful reading may make you wonder if the “instinctive friction” was somehow related to “financial difficulties.” If someone is in such pain that they are considering suicide, there are palliatives, there are hotlines, there is help.
Look, I knew an elderly man with a terminal cancer, not afraid of death, but enduring chemo and radiation at the same time on the slenderest hope of the beautiful gift a few more years. He was in unimaginable pain and fighting.
AG was not terminally ill. Another surgery was a week away. Yet he defied his teacher’s most longstanding and ineradicable teaching about suicide. He had every reason to expect the posthumous banishment that KK had. Obviously, there was something else going on inside him.
For many if not most of us, I think, the death is of a piece with the life. No, I’m not talking about murdered ten-year-olds or starving Africans. But I don’t think it’s entirely a coincidence that the most ruthless defender of the FOF, the one who pursued and sued former members for speaking their mind, costing them pain and cash defending themselves in spurious lawsuits, died like this. That’s what we all felt when we first heard the news, and it sent a shudder through many of us. Trust the shudder.
Hey fence-sitters: I have “verified” that if you turn toward the truth, you will attract the help you need. But if you are talking in the language above, if you still have “valuation” and “cannot see the higher” and are “grateful” for the “precious teaching” – then help can’t cut through the bullshit. It runs too deep. As Shakespeare said, “Tell the truth and shame the devil.”
I’ve also learned what goes around comes around, we reap as we sow, karma’s a bitch and “God is not mocked.” The FOF is coming down. Maybe not this week, maybe not this year. But you can choose to leave in a way that demonstrates that you’ve got the gumption to rehabilitate your moral muscle, or you can go down with the ship, and possibly with a prison sentence or a terminal illness as well.
There’s a Great Justice and a Great Mercy out there. Take your pick. Time is running out. Which is it? Cake or death? Cake or death? Hmmmm…. Tough choice.
125
True. I remember how people were selling their work books at the Agora (not sure what this is call now)
101
Under this fraudulent statement of whether the teacher is conscious or not, they should attached the description of crystallization made by burton himself where bolts of lightening were coming out of his ass. I wonder how many new followers that would attract?
For me it was the ‘stick’ and then the ‘carrot’.
To paraphase: “you have go now, but we’ll leave the door open, it’ll be $2,500.00 to re-enter”.
124
True. Dorian (burtons right hand) and Mihai were trading vouchers for sex.
And when that became a scandal, to quite people´s righteous anger, they were ´punished´ by been disallowed in the Galleria (Academy) for one week! After that, business as usual.
I remember how deeply disgust I was by that whole stinking thing but when I was trying to talk to some ´óld shmuchks´´ aka, older students, all I´ve heard was ´we have a gossip exesrsise´´.
123 Bruce
Someone from GF said he was like poor white trash who aspired to British aristocracy. (I didn’t want to say that earlier, since I’m not white; but it’s true, isn’t it). He can aspire all he wants to, but he’s been doing it at each member’s expense, whether through monetary deprivation (monthly donations, or as Renald iterated above, by being on a low salary with negative $$ consequences later in one’s life) or sexually. And that doesn’t include the mind control grip that many members have to undo, once they leave.
Each area of abuse is its own, deep cesspool of dirty secrets.
124 – 126 Just the Facts Ma’am
Sounds like the basic teaching payment became an “access fee.” But in order to get access to an actual “teaching-laden” activity, you’d have to look at some a la carte menu and pay for each morsel.
I hadn’t heard about the banning of the G-O, etc. books. When did that happen? (Sounds like certain communist countries that I know about. Groups like the FF have been compared to totalitarian regimes by writers like Robert Jay Lifton.)
118
Yes, Shirley, wanting to vomit, is the only reaction you can have, when you truly understand the depth of the corruption and fraud in the fellowship of friends.
128. X-ray
“Under this fraudulent statement of whether the teacher is conscious or not, they should attached the description of crystallization made by burton himself where bolts of lightening were coming out of his ass. I wonder how many new followers that would attract?”
***
For you, dear.
131.
But try to see it from Dorian and Mihai’s point of view. How was sex-for-vouchers so different than the experience they’d already had at their Teacher’s hands? They’d already had out-of-bounds sex in that very same bedroom.
What made it different this time? The fact that women were in the sacred bedroom? That PB’s widow was engaged to one of the men and due to be married within 48 hours? (Did the wedding go on as planned? Or was it simply postponed? They got married anyway soon after, anyway.)
No wonder the event got nothing more than a symbolic wrist slapping. How could it be more than a joke to Galleria insiders?
128 & 135 are new
135
True. They mirroring burton. They did what he does.
But it also shows their characters as well.
They weren´t little kids, they knew what they were doing.
And Dorian is still his right hand, years later.
That brings us back to the ´´insanity not seen because it has become a norm´´, as ´for the record´ point out.
“Is the Teacher conscious?” (from living lies and presence)
“Yes. Robert Burton crystallized his higher centers in 1976. Because it is a law that the lower cannot see the higher, verifying the level of being of the Teacher may seem challenging. Yet we can approach this question in a practical way. If working with this Teacher in this School makes you more conscious, more awake than when you began, then the question of the Teacher’s consciousness is to some extent irrelevant.”
Robert’s “Crystallization” (by crystallized himself)
My last “I” before retiring on the eve of my crystallization was: “It is not going to happen tonight”. Then I woke up at 2 A.M. I was facing the mount Apollo, with my back to California. I experienced a conscious birth, like a woman delivering a baby. It came upon me. There was a bolt of lightning, smoke and an earthquake. My higher centers fused. World 6 and world 12 were there. It lasted for about fifteen seconds. The smoke then vanished. My world 6 was looking out unperturbed, like the sphinx, with a timeless gaze. It was as if someone had shot a bullet between my eyes, and I was looking at them unmoved. I realized it was impossible to destroy my higher centers. They are immortal.
137. Oh I know. It isn’t a sympathetic cast of characters. I just remember someone explaining this to me, and being humiliated by my own naivete.
PB’s widow, after all, is a major donor. There was that to consider.
I understand that D is now married to his affair partner. So she got the guy AND a voucher. A twofer. What a deal!
Moderator,
do you think we can put it like that somewhere on the main page so people can read it together?
This classical bullshit is too precious to be waisted.
140
.. she also got the green card which was fraudulently obtained from by D. from E.M., a former ´wife´ of D, who was ´´suggested´´ into this marriage by burton.
talking about immigration fraud..
131 x-ray
Yes, the “gossip exercise” is a control tool. It’s hard to see that when you’re in the FF; after all, it makes sense that in a closed community where people make/break friendships, where couples pair up, break up, then pair up with other people, or where there’s a lot of competitive energy between people, that gossip will undermine the community’s morale and require constant damage control. But it’s also used to stifle dissent and nip in the bud any kind of questioning.
135. Philip the Fair
What exactly was this sex-for-vouchers thing? “At the risk of gossiping,” I heard it was something like: women wanted vouchers (for what? access to a dinner or meeting with RB?), and certain men controlled the vouchers. To get the vouchers, those men might demand sex from the women who wanted the vouchers? If that is the case, then what happened to the money that the women were supposed to pay, to get the vouchers? Wasn’t there someone doing the bookkeeping? Or did everyone turn a blind eye to what sounds like an incredibly corrupt pay-to-play process?
130. Arthur, I was ready to leave the FF after a year of questioning. However, someone close to me reminded me that if I changed my mind, I’d have to pay a fine to re-enter. I was also reminded of the heavy stigma of being viewed as such a “fallen” student. So I stayed another 6 months, all wasted time doing what Philip the Fair calls fence-sitting.
Before I forget. I hope Nigel and his shop werent whacked by the roving hooligans.
‘101. Arthur – August 14, 2011
Renald (91),
Re: Postal activity.
Could it be from the full moon?’
Full moon, meteor showers, solar flares going on of late; but, then again, when is there not something celestial going on?
It sounds like a bunch of guys were pimping for RB and at the same time, prostituting themselves. You’d think that RB would object, but by all accounts, he’s outdone everyone.
Speaking of this crazy promiscuity, several pages back on the blog, there was an extensive discussion of possible HIV infection going on at Apollo. Isn’t that taken seriously there? You know, it’s still not curable and it’s not a pretty death.
‘130. X-ray – August 14, 2011
124
True. Dorian (burtons right hand) and Mihai were trading vouchers for sex.
And when that became a scandal, to quite people´s righteous anger, they were ´punished´ by been disallowed in the Galleria (Academy) for one week! After that, business as usual.
I remember how deeply disgust I was by that whole stinking thing but when I was trying to talk to some ´óld shmuchks´´ aka, older students, all I´ve heard was ´we have a gossip exesrsise´´.’
That’s right, and the poor naive young women, taken in by the affair, were disproportionately punished by leaves-of-absence and/or expulsion from Oregon House, and/or the like; maybe fined?.
(That’s: ”quiet’ people´s righteous anger’ and ”being’ disallowed in the Galleria’)
“That’s right, and the poor naive young women, taken in by the affair, were disproportionately punished by leaves-of-absence and/or expulsion from Oregon House, and/or the like; maybe fined?.”
From 74 through 85 it was always that way. The woman always paid, unless the male in question wasn’t attractive to RB, then they both paid.
131. Shirley:
‘Sounds like the basic teaching payment became an “access fee.” But in order to get access to an actual “teaching-laden” activity, you’d have to look at some a la carte menu and pay for each morsel.’
The ‘basic teaching payment’ (cash) basically gave you a country club membership that entitled you to go onto Fellowship property and perform ‘third line’ labour so that you could earn vouchers in order to attend teaching events with REB..
135. Philip the Fair
You give them far to much benefit of the doubt, Right from the beginning RB was excessively attracted to pretty sociopaths. Like attracts like??? And they would either milk what they could from within the FOF, and/or leave and start their own cult. Many unhinged and manipulative people found it worthwhile to either fuck RB or at least lead him on until they got what they wanted.
And just as a complete aside…RB is one of the most physically and sexually repulsive people I’ve ever met. Use that as you wish
149 Bruce
I remember when I was working for RKK around 1980, that RB asked David to move to Renaissance. Essentially, RB was asking me and D to live separately. I was fine with that (but what if I had not been? Tough luck, I guess.) I also remember RKK saying, “Don’t worry. He’s not RB’s type.” I can’t place the chronology, but I think RB’s “activities” was the reason why RKK left the FF. I never did ask D if RB approached him.
150 Just the Facts Ma’am
It’s beginning to sound like our modern-day credit cards. For the privilege of having a major bank’s credit card, you pay an upfront annual fee. You then have to use it as often as possible instead of cash (or your other credit cards), so you can rack up points. Your reward is to trade those points for….dinner at a restaurant or….a pair of gold-plated cuff links.
So Robert Burton gets fired from his teaching job in Martinez for hugging the little boys too tightly.
Then somehow he finds and reads some books that lead him to the Alex Teaching, a short time later he’s ask to leave because of his sexual gleaming toward males.
He goes back to live with mother and by accident meets Bonita at Denny’s (that’s the only place a poor white guy could afford) So, he has sex with Bonita (more for a snow job then anything else) and starts acting the role of another kind of teacher (an esoteric guru).
The meetings at Denny’s brought more people to hear the master’s words of wisdom (all plagiarized).
By this time it’s around 1970 and the beginning of the criminal (Do, as in do re mi).
He’s having sex with somebody in the ‘incoming freshmen’ or maybe more than one. Or, he is going into the slums recruiting for sex. Because no way this charlatan is celibate.
So the do re mi starts going in circles by 1974 and by 1977 it’s all over as a real 4th Way school except in the hearts and minds of the sincere.
The rest is all sucker worshipping.
128. Philip the Fair
“With gobbledygook like that, any piece of nonsense that you see from Robert is a priori explained away. You no longer expect to hear anything wise or admirable, or even coherent, from the man who is a Fourth Way ‘Teacher.’ You accept that he’s just the mad uncle in the attic.”
***
Your voice is a welcome addition here! You make a serious point. To treat Robert as “the mad uncle” is to underestimate or even dismiss the soul-sucking machinery he has institutionalized.
The prospect of his creation surviving him is not a happy one.
Countless current and former members undoubtedly suffer some degree of PTSD from their experiences in the Fellowship. Some of the testimonies here sound like they could have come from combat veterans or civilians in war-ravaged lands.
Like the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, this “experiment” needs to be de-funded, not defended.
Here’s another take on AG death and suicides:
Try to think about this, for a moment, as Robert Earl Burton (REB) would think about it. After all, they are just I’s and anyone can have them, right?
The most important ‘I’ is how can I profit (or, prophet) the most from these incidents. That is, how can REB get the most mileage.
In the case of KK, the severely disabled person, what value did he have to REB? Not very much. Just imagine what it takes to get and keep a job for someone like KK, in order to make teaching payments and keep from being a burden to one’s community – then confronted with being unemployed. Then, what kind of wealth would be left behind? Certainly, his partner and a primary caregiver would not be lost to the FoF fold post suicide. She was an obedient student and had family in FoF.
Now contrast that with AG. For many years he had been extremely valuable in money terms and many other ways – likely on the scale of millions of dollars. He owned prized property in Oregon House surrounded by FoF property – a wonderful home. There was financial residuals that would come to REB and FoF, for sure. AG’s partner was a committed FoF member for a long long time and very likely to continue as such – but someone more sophisticated than KK’s partner. But the most important and valuable thing, REBwise, was they had a son, who was coming of an age where REB would love to get his influence over him. REB has been waiting and watching for many years. With the father gone, access could be easier. I would not even be shocked to learn this hypothetical: That AG communicated with REB about suicide and REB told him to go ahead with it. I am not saying that I know that to be the case. Just in the grand scheme of things, ‘the play is written’ and why not REB doing the writing? He has already ascribed to himself every imaginable power and authority. All things exist to serve the conscious being. Get the picture? Welcome to the club young man. How can you refuse your teacher?
– – – – – –
156. Tim Campion:
‘Countless current and former members undoubtedly suffer some degree of PTSD from their experiences in the Fellowship. Some of the testimonies here sound like they could have come from combat veterans or civilians in war-ravaged lands.’
Ever heard of intentional suffering?
“My last “I” before retiring on the eve of my crystallization was: “It is not going to happen tonight”. Then I woke up at 2 A.M. I was facing the mount Apollo, with my back to California. I experienced a conscious birth, like a woman delivering a baby. It came upon me. There was a bolt of lightning, smoke and an earthquake. My higher centers fused. World 6 and world 12 were there. It lasted for about fifteen seconds. The smoke then vanished. My world 6 was looking out unperturbed, like the sphinx, with a timeless gaze. It was as if someone had shot a bullet between my eyes, and I was looking at them unmoved. I realized it was impossible to destroy my higher centers. They are immortal.“
Much ado about one lousy gas bubble finally making its way out his black tunnel. There is never any talk about any witnesses. After all he certainly was not alone. That would have been way to scary.
Cheers!
I think and discuss with family and friends what I would do if my life became “unbearable”. A positive option to end a life I would not wish to live. I would try protect my loved ones from misunderstanding and possible perceived “guilt” with what ever means I could create. It
would be my decision, and, hopefully, my action to do.
I am so very sorry that AG thought that his “design” would bring some sort of peace.. or maybe he wasn’t thinking about this at all. He created quite a bit of distress to many people during his hours “at
work”, perhaps, he was just out of practise on how to be a careful and loving father to have his daughter find him thus.. there are so many ways to achieve the same result without bringing horrific dispair to your family. My heartfelt condolences to
his family.
157. Wondering Who’s Watching
“Ever heard of intentional suffering?”
***
Sorry. My Bad.
Countless current and former members undoubtedly intentionally suffer some degree of PTSD from their experiences in the Fellowship.
After my previous post I cleared my mind and faintly heard this song.
I did not connect it to anything or anybody but acted on impulse to do a search on the words I heard “ Right Down The Line….“ which turned out to be the title of a famous Gerry Rafferty song. As you can tell I am not much on lyrics. I still am acting on impulse to post this song and hope it creates a good feeling for someone. For those who don`t know Gerry is an ex-student as well as his daughter.
You know I need your love
You’ve got that hold over me
Long as I’ve got your love
You know that I’ll never leave
When I wanted you to share my life
I had no doubt in my mind
And it’s been you woman
Right down the line
I know how much I lean on you
Only you can see
The changes that I’ve been through
Have left a mark on me
You’ve been as constant as a Northern Star
The brightest light that shines
It’s been you woman right down the line
I just wanna say this is my way
Of tellin’ you everything
I could never say before
Yeah this is my way of tellin’ you
That every day I’m lovin’ you so much more
‘Cause you believed in me through my darkest night
Put somethin’ better inside of me
You brought me into the light
Threw away all those crazy dreams
I put them all behind
And it was you woman
Right down the line
I just wanna say this is my way of tellin’ you everything
I could never say before
Yeah this is my way of tellin’ you
Everything I could never say before
Yeah this is my way of tellin’ you
That every day I’m lovin’ you so much more
If I should doubt myself, if I’m losing ground
I won’t turn to someone else
They’d only let me down
When I wanted you to share my life
I had no doubt in my mind
And it’s been you woman
Right down the line
Better yet here is the utube link:
Cheers!
I’m assuming “death by his own hand” is correct ?
Furthermore if you wish to hear another one, here is one that I also enjoyed just now:
Cheers!
158. I believe Linda K./Linda T. claims to have witnessed the aftermath of this historic event. You’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.
The leaders in the FOF bear a great deal of responsibility – even those who are well advanced in psychological damage themselves.
Their smiling presence at the screwball meetings, sitting at the front of the room, offers great encouragement to the doubters. The fence-sitters can see that at least someone still seems to believe this crapola. Or appears to.
You really think former righthand man GH believes it? You should hear the casual jokes he makes when the mike’s not under his mouth. But hey, facing the truth means he has to get off his duff in his mid- to late-60s, under greatly deteriorated circumstances. Better to stifle the voice in your head and continue to lead others into the trap you don’t have the courage to find your way out of, rather than risk the richly deserved suffering, rejection, pain and humiliation. Rather than saying, “I was wrong. Please don’t listen to me anymore.” The show must go on… or must it? Didn’t for Abe, in the end. Another insider who bears a huge karmic responsibility. And I grieve for him.
A story I heard about someone was leaving the FOF, and telling R McD about it. “Why don’t you come with me,” the soon-to-be-ex suggested to the elderly woman. R. replied: “It’s too late for me.” R McD was rumored to have sent blunt letters to Robert Burton about his depravity, and was told to shut the eff up. Probably happened after she’d been squeezed like a lemon for cash and whatever else she had to give.
A string quartet or something played outside her room as she was dying. Some sort of consolation, I guess. Like PB’s restoration to glorious favor after he’d been treated with brutal contempt..
But so help me, I’d rather die alone and hungry, in a cement basement, with my conscience intact.
My ritual disclaimer: Anyone in the FOF or out is welcome to come on this forum and correct me if I am mistaken. Much of this is inevitably speculative, and some of it secondhand – but in an organization that thrives on secrecy, rumor and reasonable guesses are the only way we can figure out what the FOF/Pathway to Presence did. Blah blah blah blah blah. Really, my sources are very good. You don’t have a leg to stand on.
159 &162 are new
I wondered what were those crazy dreams Gerry mentions in “ Right Down The Line“. Maybe they were mentioned in the following:
Baker Street
Way down the street there’s a lad in his place
He opens the door he’s got that look on his face
And he asks you where you’ve been
You tell him who you’ve seen
And you talk about anything
He’s got this dream about buyin’ some land
He’s gonna give up the booze and the one night stands
And then he’ll settle down there’s a quiet little town
And forget about everything.
Cheers!
159. Amanda Raphaelson ( Mariposa)
As those of us who are “Baby Boomers” arrive at old age, be assured “end of life discussions” will become a common, probably tiring topic.
I’m no expert on the matter, but I believe there is a right and a wrong way to approach death. I hope my preparations will involve my family and friends, as you suggest.
The details of the shady world of Fellowship finances are harrowing enough, but the long-term effects of membership in the cult tell the story on a different scale. I’m going to try to write a bit about my own experience in search of some personal understanding and catharsis.
I made regular teaching payments for 30 years, from age 27 to age 57. Then, there were the endless special donations, increasing year after year. More subtly, there were the material demands of the high-culture lifestyle to which we aspired in our role as the ‘seed of a new, post-Armageddon, civilization’. And of course, there was the pressure to prepare for the cataclysmic event itself. Much of my 30 years were spent preparing for this or that catastrophe; I took the predictions seriously. Influence C wanted an Ark, and helping to build this Ark was the payment for my soul. It was a noble pursuit.
I remember leaving the property after my first two-year period ‘on salary.’ I was being sent out ‘into life’ to develop a career and of course, to earn more money. Over the next fifteen years, I was able to earn a good living in the high-tech industry. My job enabled me to work in other countries, experience other cultures, and support other FoF centres. It was exciting. Several times, I stood at a crossroads in my career: Accept an interesting and lucrative job offer or heed the call to return to California to ‘recharge’? Choosing the latter, I missed significant opportunities which could have propelled my career to the next level, and which in retrospect I sorely regret not taking.
My blind belief in the teacher’s predictions and my enthusiasm for preparation were my financial downfall. I went bankrupt preparing in earnest for ’98. In 2001, my parents died and I received an inheritance — around $350K. I decided at that point to ‘dedicate my life to the 3rd line’. I quit my job, and set out to start a business in OH that would help prepare the community for what was now to come in 2006. Why think of a retirement plan when the world was coming to an end? I converted my inheritance into precious metals which today would be worth $1.5M. Over the next five years, I gradually sold off the metals to finance my FoF-centered business enterprise, which was ill-conceived and doomed to fail from the very beginning.
When the 2006 prophesy failed, my faith in RB’s predictions was finally shattered and I was able to become more critical of other aspects of the school. I sold my property in OH and went on a one-year ‘sabbatical’ to re-group. In 2007, I left the school. In 2008, my financial situation was in ruins. With the generous help of relatives I had consistently neglected over the years, I managed to emigrate to another country where I now live a simple life and work to survive month to month. No savings, no way to return to my home country and start over. An exile at age 60.
My spiritual journey is another story. While I do believe that my years in the Fellowship were a necessary step on the way, and preparation for where I am now, the price was exceedingly steep.
164. Man Without a Name
I agree mostly with your post concerning GH & R McD.
To this about R McD.: ‘A string quartet or something played outside her room as she was dying. Some sort of consolation, I guess.’ I can add: R. suffered from circulatory issues (read: heart condition. One truism from REB/FoF is that the manner of decline and death of a person is very telling of truth about the person’s life. For R McD., a broken heart. FoF did not turn out as her heart desired.)
Ah Love! could thou and I with Fate conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire,
Would not we shatter it to bits – and then
Re-mould it nearer to the Heart’s Desire!
Omar Khayyam
But, I digress. R McD., in her life had a significant role in the early FoF arts, especially the music, and was very close with Anna G., a world class pianist. She arranged for many of the music programs, including Beaux Arts Trio. In her final days and hours, R McD. fell into a non-responsive (coma) condition. She remained this way for a significant amount of time and would not die. The caretakers got the idea to bring in the FoF musicians to play her favorite music. (As far as I know, it was not an FoF action, but, a private endeavor.) This was with not knowing if she could even hear it. After their performance, R let out a deep felt sigh and then died.
144
Just as I said. They were trading vouchers for sex, Shirly.
Those who wanted to come to dinner or meeting with bob have prostituted themselves for vouchers which Dorian and Mihay had in abundance since they were in control of it.
The rest is a history.
Tim Campion (167),
“Baby Boomers” What ages are those? When the body starts to decline the talk is whatever the symptoms are. If you live alone the talk is in your head. If you have family the talk is with them, if you have visiting nurses (only or not) the talk is with them…whatever the case is the only choice is to endure for as long as possible.
Depending on the suffering some chose suicide, some ask for help in suicide and then….
“His acts being seven ages (including baby boomer)…
The sixth age shifts into lean and slippered pantaloon…
Last scene of all, that ends this strange eventful
history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion, sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
Wm. Shakespeare, “As You Like It”.
157
All things considered, your theory is not too far stretched.
163
Is he still in the cult?
Re – 173 – X-ray
“ .At 4:58pm on January 5, 2011, martha rafferty said… My Father, Gerry, passed away yesterday morning. He died at home, I was with him. He’s probably with his reindeer now.
X
Cheers!
The mentions of Rosemary MacDonald and Anna Gold reminded me of how they influenced Burton in the early days. I arrived in the Fellowship of Friends after some basic patterns were established, but as far as I can tell, Burton learned a great deal from the group of ‘older ladies’ who formed the core of his early followers. I refer to Sheila Grunwaldt, Anna Gold, Rosemary MacDonald, Doris Elizabeth, and others of that generation. These ladies tried to teach Burton, in so many ways a raw hick, something about refinement and taste. Shiela G., from a wealthy family, and with a background in decorating and design, could introduce Burton to new concepts in those fields. Anna Gold could introduce him to classical music, and as his ambitions grew, provide private piano concerts and contacts in the world of professional music. In the same way, others made their various contributions, and he adopted new mannerisms, language, accent, and interests. All these ladies were deeply attracted to Burton and worked extremely hard to educate him, and in fairness to him, he worked hard to absorb what they had to teach, at least on the surface.
But, whereas the ladies were bred and raised to be refined, and had some inherent taste, Burton was still essentially a hick. He is still really attracted to shiny things and loud colors, and I don’t think the refinement is more than skin deep. Once he felt he had the authority and gravitas to freely indulge himself, he showed that in fact he did have little taste. This is how he has ended up with his nouveau riche faux–French chateau (surrounded by an abandoned and derelict vineyard) decorated with endless frou-frou, including pictures of a nude erect young man on the ceiling (available to view on GF, if you think I’m kidding)––his answer to Michelangelo.
_____________________________
I think Burton is worth studying, not only for his considerable flaws, but also for his strengths. The fact is, he assembled a large group of people and has got them to do what he wanted for over forty years. Getting people to do what you want is the basic definition of power. He has created a complete life for himself, and he has single-mindedly followed his goals—wealth, power, status—until they were attained. He has let nothing stand in his way. There are other powerful, charismatic people who have similarly carved out their places in the universe, but he is the one I came most in contact with, so he is the one whose fate I can best study. I can look at my interactions with him, his effects on me and his followers, and learn something of the price he and others paid to attain his goals.
I have in my hands a collection of dozens of thoughts from Burton that specifically focus on license plates, sent in by alert readers. All of these are apparently fairly recent, and I thought I’d share a few choice ones. As you can see, he has still not given up on California falling into the sea, and is very big on the Mayan 2012 thing. The present form of meetings/indoctrination/group meme reinforcement seems to be this: an image from the collection assembled by researchers is projected, and a quote, most often by Burton, but sometimes from some other notable in history, is produced (read aloud?). Then Burton adds his insights, interpretations and wisdom while the audience laps it all up. I’m sure more recent escapees can correct me if I’m wrong.
____
“Life’s situation is getting tighter. It does not matter what man is planning – what matters is what Influence C are planning.” * Robert Burton *
Robert’s comment: It is interesting to observe how the oil situation is beginning to cause havoc. Oil is blood for the modern age. I was at the airport in Houston yesterday on my way to San Francisco and they interrupted a television program to announce that oil had gone over $110 a barrel. Today it closed almost three dollars higher. The high oil prices will affect everything. A license plate says “911-MGR” – 9/11 Major. In fact, 9/11 was a true shock that was heard around the world. This is a map indicating recent earthquake activity. It is quite interesting. In the upper left is Japan, where the earthquake and tsunami occurred in March. Beneath it is New Zealand, where the Christchurch earthquake struck a few months ago. In the lower right-hand corner is Chile, which suffered an earthquake in 2010. If you go straight up you reach San Francisco and the west coast of California. It makes a square. California is the likeliest place of all for a cataclysmic disaster.
____
“The only real freedom is freedom from imagination.” * Robert Burton *
Robert’s comment: Of course, there cannot be freedom without presence, can there? This is a license plate we saw in Mexico City saying “777WNH.” It is three ‘sevens.’ “WNH” is the way you would say “winner” in New York. We saw this man at the Chapultepec Castle in Mexico City with a tee-shirt saying “Xscape.” He was walking around us, meaning that we are escaping. This was my room at the Hilton Hotel. It is interesting, because when Leonid checked in they gave us a complimentary upgrade to a suite, which was room 2121. It means card twenty-one for all of us, compliments of Influence C. Influence C do quite a lot with license plates around the world. It is always a lifesaver when a message from Influence C passes by as you are driving.
____
“The Last Judgment is nothing to wish for, but something to watch for.” * Robert Burton *
Robert’s comment: Shakespeare said, “Some must watch, while some must sleep” – life. We are the people who are watching. We saw this interesting license plate saying “239 WWT.” I was born in 1939. It may mean that will I go to 39 – 2039, or that I came to the earth in ’39. We will have to wait to understand it. However, “WWT” refers to World War Three. When we entered the restaurant, we decided to have the attendants clean our car. We saw this license plate when we returned, meaning that it is a clean omen, without imagination.
____
“The sequence channels suffering into presence.” * A student *
Robert’s comment: It is quite profound. We do not suppress suffering – we transform it. Incredibly, a photograph shows a plume of smoke over Apollo during the fire that occurred one week ago. This is a wonderful image of the fire behind the god Mercury. It looks like Influence C leading us through the Last Judgment. During the fire, I found a coin on the top of Mount Apollo. It was minted in 1965, making it forty-four years old. Late last year as I was entering San Diego, a license plate in front of us said “US SAFE” – meaning perhaps that we will be safe from hydrogen warfare. Yesterday I put a new license plate on my van saying “12 DEC 21,” referring to December 21, 2012, the date given on the Mayan calendar as the end of the fifth cycle. In all the Mayan world only one object gives this date.
____
“The noble pledge to produce presence is the highest resolve man can aspire to.” * Robert Burton *
Roberts comment: Shakespeare called this the “noble pledge” to produce conscious nobility. The royal couple will be married in England next week, but it is all outward show. There is no nobility without presence, only an imitation of nobility. I am not judging, merely observing. Geraldine Reid found this license plate in Grass Valley saying “2BFLYN.” It is a Mercedes with the three-Be logo. This is the Rucellai Madonna by Duccio di Buoninsegna in the Uffizi, Florence (ca. 1285). Here we see six angels, three on either side. Around the edge of the frame are thirty medallions of the saints – the thirty great work ‘I’s. The Christ child is making the noble pledge with his hand. He has red hair for combustion. Mary has four fingers over her stomach, controlling the lower self.
Numbers:
I was reading how certain Christian sects are pro-Israel but in a strange way.
They believe Jesus is coming back and coming to Jerusalem.
It they claim is noted in the book of Revelation.
Somehow Jesus comes back after much death and destruction in Jerusalem.
I looked up in Kabbalah what 666 the number of man and the mark of the beast meant.
666= the lower mind.
What better mind to introduced self-imposed mayhem and destruction?
169 WYLTK
Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t mean to sound snarky, if I did. I liked R McD. Though she was peddled as the sine qua non of good taste and refinement, I always found her to be distinctly middlebrow, but nevertheless a straightforward, commonsense person. (“Good taste and refinement” is already a kind of Arkansas vulgarity – the sort of thing RB would say.)
“Our Glorious Dead” is one of the FOF myths that is used to bind people more closely to the organization. But some of these people were trapped, and had no way out. It’s important to dispel RB’s self-serving myth that they will all be with him in Paradise, that they died at peace in his “teaching.”
Requiescat in pace, Abraham.
1.NG
“RB: Yes! It is written. This is payment for what might occur to life, it is payment for acquiring privileged information from ‘C’ influence. Suicide is extremely rare in the long history of the school. Of all the students in the school, only Kevin out of so many people in so many years. DW went into Marysville the day after and saw the license plate: ”ALLDONE”. ”
and
85. Shirley
“And the ridiculous license plate “signs from above.” I remember, at a meeting in the early-mid 1970s, when RB mentioned a license plate he or someone had seen that said ALLDONE; its significance was that someone had just left the FF who had a name that sounded like All Done. There was the usual dismissive comment about that guy not being on the way.”
***
I suppose it’s possible history repeated itself at a convenient moment, but I recall hearing what Shirley heard, and it concerned Alden Edmunds, who left in the early 70s.
Robert may have dusted off “one from the archives” for a fresh audience. (Only he, “DW” and C Influence know for sure.)
Burton was fond of saying that “the only permanent truth is change” or something to that effect.
Reading those recent renditions from Ames above, one might add: “Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”.
Re: Shirley’s questions about “paying” for vouchers.
Vouchers were instituted as a parallel currency, meant to muster more energy towards the needs of the leader. Once Burton shifted the core activity of the entire Fellowship towards organizing “events”, he needed and endless supply of participants as well as ancillary labor.
Such events comprised meetings, dining events (breakfast, lunch or dinners), teas and receptions. In some years, the total number of such events could exceed 400. They were usually hosted at the “Galleria” and would include anywhere from 15-20 (teas) to 25 -30 (lunches-dinners) to 60-70 (“special dinners) to >100 (meetings) participants. When hosted in private homes (obviously a special honor, a “blessing” of a kind), the premium price would go up (4 to 8k for the whole event, cash up front, up to you to find participants). The large majority was held in Oregon House, drawing on the local members and those in neighboring centers, both for participation and labor. Virtually all of them had standing participants, giving the added impression of the sold-out, standing-room only, not-to-be-missed event.
Vouchers allowed the leader to use penniless people for labor. Vouchers could then be used to attend an event (one to stand on one leg, two on two legs, 3 or 4 to sit, something like that), or traded on the black market for cash at a discount. Vouchers were earned by laboring a full day in various activities (landscaping, preparation/serving/cleaning up the mess of events, etc…). Corollary to this invention was the power endowed to those who had the privilege of signing/distributing the vouchers: a precious few indeed, Mihai and Dorian amongst them. What followed was the easy trade of sexcapades, when the cat was away, in his master bedroom no less, for a few vouchers and chosen sitting at events, when the fat cat would be back. A few amongst the wide-eyed and penniless damsels, went for the offer.
From an earlier chapter:
Ames Gilbert said:
Bass Ackwards, thank you for your post (#26-193 or thereabouts). At the end, you quoted Ouspensky:
“There are schools for instance or systems which, although they do not formulate it in this way, are actually based on false personality and on struggle against conscience.”
For Robert Burton, struggling against conscience is official policy. I quoted him verbatim in my ‘farewell letter’ (#7-38):
Conscience is a collection of subjective I’s. If a student accumulates too much material there, he should leave the school.
Last weekend, someone who professionally sees many psychopaths in the course of their job told me that one common aspect they have is that they “can see right through you”, that they are often able to see one’s weaknesses and strengths quite clearly, and accurately play on them. From my personal experience and from seeing other’s interactions with him, I saw that Burton can look at anyone and tell them what they want to hear; he plays on weaknesses exquisitely. The truth, or well-being of the student is of no concern, nor can it be; he has no operational conscience, and so of course, ‘conscience is just a collection of subjective ‘I’s”—that interfere between him and his prey, between him and the realization of his desires. He has learned that the rest of us have something different inside us, that it is useful for him to use words like ‘thank you’ and ‘I love you’, but he has learned those (and the correct times to use them) by rote, only to further his aims. And he actively promotes the stifling of conscience by labeling it ‘subjective morality’ and claiming that his brand of consciousness not only dispenses with the need for conscience entirely, but that conscience is an actual impediment to consciousness.
176
Don´t know about you Ames, but this stuff makes me sick.
The guy is a complete psychopath, hasnamus, retard pervert and sicko.
Medical science does not rate all that highly in my understanding of the scheme of things. Still here is an article which pretty well echoes what I have been expounding about addictions. The media gives it a spin like they always do to seel yet the core is easily visible.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/addiction-now-defined-brain-disorder-not-behavior-problem-145607368.html
Cheers!
182
Sorry Tim, but ascribing this psychic ability to psychopaths like burton, is completely wrong, to say the least.
This people can´t even see themselves straight, how in the world they can see others?
And the only thing that burton knows about you, is what you tell him.
Re. 185 – X-ray –
I have a friend who was 95% ready to bail out of the fof.
He was not attending functions or meetings. Somehow burton got him to attend a dinner and sit near him. That night burton told him something that was supposed to be secret. I don`t even know what it had to do with but the end result was that he suddenly believed that burton had to be conscious. He was and is back in big time, accepting all the unnecessary suffering.
While my thoughts were still circulating around the subject of addictions and how addictions control so many in or out I ran into a familiar fof magnetic subject, The Ark. So here it is in musical form from Gerry Rafferty.
Cheers!
182, 185. I’m not so sure. I agree that “the only thing that burton knows about you, is what you tell him.” He couldn’t remember what you said an hour ago.
But in my observation, he did also seem to have some “psychic powers” at times.
But so what? A schmuck who levitates is still just a schmuck who levitates. Nothing “higher” about it. I can do the same thing with a ladder.
I think it comes down more to the “instincts” of a sociopath rather than any “power”, like the instincts of a predator. I don’t think there’s much of an intellectual element in anything that comes from the queen. He’s a fucking flaming moron in red cloths.
‘178. Man Without a Name – August 15, 2011
169 WYLTK
Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t mean to sound snarky, if I did. . .’
No offense taken. I was just elaborating on your theme.
* * * * * *
Here is a story that perhaps illustrates how Fellowship of Friends (FoF) – Pathway to Presence – Living Presence – Church of Robert Earl Burton operates in relation to the elderly and infirm (at least at that point in time): Around about the time of R McD. illness and decline, several others were headed for their rest and transportation for them, and other longterm disabled, was needed. FoF had a special (mostly?) voluteer organization for assisting these people in need who needed it. FoF did not want to be in the business of doing this – that is understandable given that that is not its main charter and the increasing number of people that would be needy. Some of the people doing the caregiving recognized this and the transportation need and when they saw a wheelchair equiped van for sale locally, a grassroots effort to buy it developed. Private parties stepped up to provide the money for the evaluation of the van, purchase, designated driver(s) and possibly, also, the operating expenses. But, then there was a problem of ownership and insurance. Having FoF be the owner and having the van added to the FoF carpool for insurance seemed to be the most economical and best idea. Certain person(s) began to undertake this action. But, when the ‘brass’ (no names mentioned here) learned about it, it was stopped and people were fired from their slave labor jobs for attempting such foolishness. Van was not acquired. A fleet of cars, to serve the ‘clergy,’ of course, has gone on for decades that has included, at various times: Rolls Royce, Mercedes Benz, Lexus, sports cars, etc.
* * * * * *
On the subject of license plates: I distinctly remember being at at least one REB meeting where a license plate was shown, in large poster image and in 8×11 color copies to circulate/hand out, that was a California plate. But, there was a problem. There were too many characters on the plate as California did not issue plates like that. It, most likely, was photoshopped by some Russian entourage member that had no clue about such matters. Do not believe all that you see and hear at these meetings. Much of it is imagination, magical thinking, and crazy wisdom to feed pablum to the masses – and more to impress than to inform.
* * * * * *
181. Opus111:
Good elaboration on voucher subject.
* * * * * *
J*s*ph M*nt*l**n*, G*rry R*ff*rty, and others, might be considered
‘suicide in slow motion,’ because with substance abuse comes deteriorization of various organs of the body so that one becomes: ‘not playing with a full deck of cards.’ Consequently, death may appear to be by other causes, like accident or whatever, but usually, this is how it is: how you have lived is how you die.
186
Well, maybe your friend was not really at 95% readiness to bail out.
When I realized that fellowship was a fucking hole and burton was a sicko charlatan and liar, I just got out of there. As far as I can see, your friend is just a weak minded person.
And let me guess what he could tell him ¨dear, you got identified with your instinctive I´s, which are leading you out of the only conscious school on Earth. You are about to loose all possibilities to evolve and from your 8th lifetime you going back to your first lifetime. C influence are here for you, in this very room and speaking thru my ass to you right now. And no, oh dear, this wasn´t really my fart you just heard, it was Leonadros´s fart, he eat with us too much in TV room before the dinner…
As far as GR, well, I never knew him personally and I never heard about him bad things. So if he was a good person, may his soul rest in peace.
I only heard that he had a drug problem which wasn´t a secret to burton who wasn´t bothered by it, once again, showing double standards.
A different side-track on the “cultification” (is that a word?) of the human mind.
Rick Perry Governor of Texas, Sarah Palin former governor of Alaska and Michelle Bachmann Representative from Minnesota belong in some form or fashion to the “life philosophy” of Christian Reconstructionism or Domininism.
Romney’s Mormonism and Robert Burton’s “isms” pale in comparsion. Maybe not Robert Burton’s except when he wants to be “ruler” of the planet in the “ark” of his imagination.
Basically they are all “cultified”.
Wouldn’t You Like to Know, (#108-189 or thereabouts),
there is enough general interest in ‘customizing’ license plates for humor, profit, or shenaningans that one can download a free ‘license plate’ font from the ‘net, and there are even detailed tutorials on how to make up your own license plates, for example, at: http://pshero.com/photoshop-tutorials/graphic-design/vanity-license-plate
I now have a copy of the font on my system, and also the font ‘Mistral’ used to write the name “California” at the top of the plate, and since I own Photoshop, I can follow the tutorial and easily start making up my own plates, including the reflective highlights, the embossing, shadows and maybe some road grime for realism. Still in Photoshop, one can skew and distort the final product and slot it into a photo of a real vehicle. Yes, it is an idea to know the letter limits of, say, the California system, but one can easily produce ‘omens’ to suit any taste.
________________________________
One notable feature of the ‘voucher’ system of alternative currency (#181 or thereabouts) is that on this ‘relatively minor’ scale it is easy to bypass the IRS. The turnover is probably at the most in the tens of thousands of dollars equivalent? The IRS have plenty of rules about barter, but they must first be alerted. Also, if followers are paid for their work in vouchers, the Fellowship of Friends avoids not only taxes, but other pesky expenses such as social security and Medicare due on cash wages. And if the rules about issuing money are pretty lax, then there may not even be a shadow bookkeeping system to account for it all. Again, most of the benefits accrue tax–free to Burton with a few tidbits going to the comptrollers of vouchers. Come to think of it, sort of like our federal system, including inflation. A good scam while it lasts.
..and I agree with Bruce, an intelect and bob are antonyms, a fucking retard can put two sentences together without ´outside help´.
I remember a student from another teaching center who drove a Mercedes-Benz with the licence plate that read “4th WAY”.
Had I saw that before I joined I would have been convinced God was talking to me.
RE. 189 – Wouldn`t You Like To Know –
“ J*s*ph M*nt*l**n*, G*rry R*ff*rty, and others, might be considered
‘suicide in slow motion,’ because with substance abuse comes deteriorization of various organs of the body so that one becomes: ‘not playing with a full deck of cards.’ Consequently, death may appear to be by other causes, like accident or whatever, but usually, this is how it is: how you have lived is how you die.“
Well it seems that I have been resisting the urge to speak out on this particular subject too long or at the very least long enough.
Certainly you are right. I take it one step further (I think it is one step, maybe it`s more than one).
All physical death is a form of suicide. What is the difference between one addiction or another? One ego thinking it is better than another ego? “ I would never become addicted to anything?“
Well how about being addicted to that habit of thought?
Whoever is put in Joseph`s personal situation, or anyone else`s for that matter, is going to react or act in the exact same way as that person. That goes for me, burton, Jesus Christ, Hitler, Mubarak, Obama, put whatever name you wish.
The main organ which undergoes change with substance abuse, any other abuse, any other habit good or bad for that matter is the brain.
The brain has a fair bit to do with behavior, don`t you think?
Have you ever seen an avalanche stop and reverse its momentum up the mountain? Good luck on that one.
I too am no different. After all Joseph stole my 85 Cabernet, almost a year`s rentals, and so on. My reaction to that was to get somewhat negative, to have negative thoughts associated with those subjects to the point that I cannot think or see or hear about 85 Cabernet without going there. My brain is then getting sick. From the point of view of the brain it is not getting sick, it is just existing as it is made to exist, mechanically. Without a series of other thoughts, habits, beliefs, I cannot do anything about it. Fortunately I have run across other thoughts and so on (Thank you so much Virginia!) so that I can make a decision to change my brain`s wiring. Actually the very beginning of that snowball of events regarding Virginia helping me out was that I had found a collection of tapes on how to help oneself out of the addiction to alcohol and I lent it to her. She reciprocated by lending me some tapes and a book on the Law of Attraction where I found the ideas for creating change within myself which I had previously thought I would gain from being in the fof according to the 4th Way teachings. One thing leads to another, one small step…..
Those small steps could actually be traced back to the past to the very beginning of my existence.
How can I diffuse and rewire my brain, my program so that my mechanical negative reactions become positive? What my present belief on that is involves starving that energy connection and replacing it with another over time. I need to somehow start associating Joseph and my memories surrounding him to something positive. But….! No buts! How? In this case I see no other possibility but to fake what I would prefer. After all the guy is dead. The key there is that the brain doesn`t know a fake experience from a `real` one. So I use my imagination to create new scenarios. I envision myself (using the same process that a sociopath or a saint would) loving Joseph and enjoying his company and so on. Or I can use a shortcut which I learned recently from Dr. Hew Len. It works out the same and requires less imagination work. It is simpler.
Cheers!
..sorry, I meant to say that fucking retard can´t put sentences together.
164. Man Without a Name
Wow, this page is going so fast!
Regarding P.t.r B.sh.p, it was reported that when he was near death he said to those present at the time: “Tell Robert I adore him”. (At the time I believed he said that but I am not so sure anymore. Doesn’t sound like him. Sounds more like FoF propaganda.) PB was a very decent person.
Shortly after his death, he was lied down on his bed in his house and it was announced that all students were encouraged to come and pay their respect on that Saturday from —am till —pm. There was a continuous stream of FoFers, passing by his dead body to “pay their respect”, or so I heard. I didn’t attend. When I told our long-time FoF-follower neighbor that I didn’t go to P.B.’s “wake”, he told me that “it was a mistake on my part.”
A few days later PB had a grand funeral in the Theatron.
168. My2Bits
Thanks for sharing your story. What a bunch of highs and lows. Like you said, it’s probably hard for you to look back on it sometimes, because you know what the price of precious metals is these days. Although you have plenty of company since 2008 re: stock /commodities/ housing market regrets, that has never alleviated anyone’s personal pain. Part of what makes your pain greater is that you had a large sum, so the loss of it over time, all in the service of the FF community, makes it harder to bear.
What may be deeper in the regret department, though, is seeing what came of one’s belief in RB’s predictions, where one threw one’s life and resources into preparing for them.
176. Ames
RB seems to have an addiction to license plate interpretations. I almost couldn’t read what you posted, they sounded so much like grasping stuff out of the air. It’s like he casts a spell over students, instead of doing real teaching.
I was thinking about that in connection with the couple of posts, above, about how he no longer wanted “work” books (G-O, Nicoll, Collin) around. I wasn’t there for that purge, but one effect it must have had is that it enabled him to stop students from comparing what he was doing as a 4th Way teacher with what was said in the “work” books. Generally, a tyrant or government bans books that threaten its existence or propaganda message. I can think of a few countries right now where that is actively enforced.
170, 181 x-Ray, Opus 111 re: vouchers
So we’ve come full circle, where men give women a little tidbit, if only the women will give them some sex. This kind of barter is deeply entrenched in history and society, whether it’s male/female or some other combination. But how can the FF stoop so low? (I think I know the answer: Follow the leader. If your teacher does it, why shouldn’t you?) It’s all so repulsive. Why do people stay in the FF?
181 Opus 111
Vouchers and penniless laborers – I meant to add that reading about that aspect is, in some ways, heartbreaking. How did the FF reduce itself to a system that resembles servitude, where those who have so little, are almost groveling for the “privilege” of having some of RB’s “crumbs”? However, it was always like that in the FF, even in the earlier decades: the hierarchy. The comment about how those who were “privileged” to host an event in their own homes at great expense ($4K-8K) reminds me of Queen Elizabeth I’s trips across England with her enormous entourage. They’d pick some noble with a large estate, give a bit of notice, and descend on his household for awhile, figuratively eating him out of house and home, putting many of them into deep debt.
Re. Shirley – 201 “ Vouchers and penniless laborers – I meant to add that reading about that aspect is, in some ways, heartbreaking.“
Earlier, Shirley, you mentioned that people who were financially damaged by being in the fof were left without medical / dental insurance and that this was detrimental and so on.
The internal response that I had when I read this was negative thinking (mainly fears) which creates negative memories which creates detrimental programs were surely worse than not having the insurance.
Now you state that reading about the abuse which the poorer students received is for you heartbreaking. I can see your point.
So because of the aim of informing others and thus attempting to save them from harm what is happening is that you are harming yourself and therefore others as well. I am also doing the same thing. This trend by many of us needs to be looked at seriously for the purpose of cleaning up our programs. We are actually hurting ourselves when we continue to feed this habit.
I was (ego) thinking we were doing a great job. Now I (still ego) am not so sure.
I think the tone has gotten more positive and that has to be an improvement. However since the volume has multiplied noticeably, the lower number of negative thoughts has also multiplied giving it a worse result in the end if you get my gist. For example it is worse to have 50% of 100 posts daily which have a negative influence on us than it was to have 80% of 6 posts as before.
Another positive inclination I have noticed is that we have started to see our responsibility. We also have started to express love more, at least toward each other if not so much towards ourselves. This counts for much. It is possible that we are about to enter into a new stage in the development of the blog (bloggers actually), one which will serve us better, one which will be healthier for us and for those in touch with each of us. Let`s see what tomorrow brings.
Cheers!
“But how can the FF stoop so low?”
The entire group stoops that low due to the creation and maintenance of the psychological schism known as “the lower self”.
Followers are indoctrinated to polarize and split themselves into “good and bad” parts, which are inherently fused together, yet mutually annihilating. This unhealthy psychological nexus distorts reality and can form the basis for psychosis….hence all the rhino poop and magical thinking about license plates.
Absent is symbolism of the union of opposites contained in the truly transformative experience.
Cult membership hinges upon projecting the lower self (bad object0 onto others, particularly onto those not in the group, which in turn creates more unconsciousness in followers-not less, thus binding followers to the cult indefinitely.
Ironic, is it not, that the longer a person is away from cult indoctrination, the more apparent it becomes that pastor burton’s actions are motivated by exactly what he is condemning in others?
For whatever personal reasons, pastor burton has created an elaborate delusional system to justify his unconscious actions, baiting and binding his followers with possible conscious knighthood and promises of paradise.
Stripped of his victim pool, we would see the man for who he really is, the same as you or I, and no more.
I am not fooled by the aloof, far off gaze pastor burton has cultivated in his photo ops, to me, it is indicative of a man who cannot look himself squarely in the eyes either.
Robert Burton has created a Wasteland. And within, an “insubstantial pageant”.
Our revels now are ended: these our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp’d towers, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind: We are such stuff
As dreams are made of, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.
William Shakespeare
From The Tempest, Act 4 Scene 1
198
Yes, that´s true, there were a lot of people coming. I was there too.
201
Shirly,
to understand what fof has become from the late 90th, you have to be there.
It has become a labor camp, a whorehouse and a mental clinic all at once.
200
And yes, Shirley, you know the answer.
Regarding some of Burton’s more fanciful statements, Ames wrote:
“Outside his fantasy world, the conversation in #1 above would be peppered with, “How could you possibly know? How could we possibly verify that? Why are you telling us this stuff?” and such, and it would grind to an embarrassing halt after the first few sentences. But Burton has gone far beyond accepting feedback or tolerating anything but the most fawning questions, let alone dissent.”
That can apply to the entire 4th Way system as well. Talk of creating a soul, going to the moon, etc — how can you possibly verify that? Even by Gurdjieff’s own standards, there is no one practicing the 4th Way today who can possibly be doing anything legitimate. Burton is certainly not a legitimate connection to Gurdjieff or Ouspensky. It turns out that Alex Horn was not either. So anyone following the 4th Way today is simply following what they have read in books. Can you imagine devoting the majority of your life to something written in books, by authors you have never met?
Even if you take on faith the accuracy of Gurdjieff’s teachings, it still leads nowhere.
If it’s such a great system, where are all the conscious beings? I’ve lived a long time, and I’ve never met one. Introduce me to just one, and I’ll eat my hat.
“I’ve lived a long time, and I’ve never met one. Introduce me to just one, and I’ll eat my hat.”
If you’d like to meet a conscious being in real time, go have a look in the bathroom mirror…and embrace all parts of yourself you cannot see with love.
Bon appetit!
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