jump to navigation

Fellowship Of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion – Part 96 August 12, 2010

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.
trackback

Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion.

For recent pages from the blog go here

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussionblog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with former members of the Fellowship of Friends as well as some current members here.

To visit “Living Presence”, the newly created web site for recruiting new members to the Fellowship;

http://www.livingpresence.com/

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban or a leave of absence from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/

Comments

1. X-ray - August 12, 2010

179. X-ray:
‘Listen to me you idiot.
You either a liar like your ‘teacher’ or you never even being a member
FOF it’s all about money sex and mind control.
And the ONLY message of the FOF is give me your money and suck my dick or let me suck yours.’

I’m sorry, X-ray, you are wrong, you left out the part about all the a$$ ki$$ing.

And, BTW, A…..ne F..w is one of the best a$$ ki$$er$!
——————————-

I think you right, these people both cock suckers and ass kissers, both metaphorically and literal..

2. WhaleRider - August 13, 2010

3. WhaleRider - August 13, 2010
4. quorum - August 13, 2010

Mr. WhaleRider,
thank you for the video. Here is the transcript.

“My journey to coming here today started in 1974. That’s me with the funny gloves. I was 17 and going on a peace walk. What I didn’t know though, was most of those people, standing there with me, were Moonies. (Laughter) And within a week I had come to believe that the second coming of Christ had occurred, that it was Sun Myung Moon, and that I had been specially chosen and prepared by God to be his disciple.

Now as cool as that sounds, my family was not that thrilled with this. (Laughter) And they tried everything they could to get me out of there. There was an underground railroad of sorts that was going on during those years. Maybe some of you remember it. They were called deprogrammers. And after about five long years my family had me deprogrammed. And I then became a deprogrammer. I started going out on cases. And after about five years of doing [deprogramming] I was arrested for kidnapping. Most of the cases I went out on were called involuntary. What happened was that the family had to get their loved ones some safe place somehow. And so they took them to some safe place. And we would come in and talk to them, usually for about a week. And so after [the arrest] happened I decided it was a good time to turn my back on this work.

And about 20 years went by. There was a burning question though that would not leave me. And that was, “How did this happen to me?” And in fact, what did happen to my brain? Because something did. And so I decided to write a book, a memoir, about this decade of my life.

And toward the end of writing that book there was a documentary that came out. It was on Jonestown. And it had a chilling effect on me. These are the dead in Jonestown. About 900 people died that day. Most of them taking their own lives. Women gave poison to their babies, and watched foam come from their mouths as they died.

The top picture is a group of Moonies that have been blessed by their messiah. Their mates were chosen for them. The bottom picture is Hitler youth. This is the leg of a suicide bomber. The thing I had to admit to myself, with great repulsion, was that I get it. I understand how this could happen. I understand how someone’s brain, how someone’s mind can come to the place where it makes sense, in fact it would be wrong, when your brain is working like that, not to try to save the world through genocide.

And so what is this? How does this work? And how I’ve come to view what happened to me is a viral memetic infection. For those of you who aren’t familiar with memetics, a meme has been defined as an idea that replicates in the human brian and moves from brain to brain like a virus, much like a virus. The way a virus works is — it can infect and do the most damage to someone who has a compromised immune system.

In 1974, I was young, I was naive, and I was pretty lost in my world. I was really idealistic. These easy ideas to complex questions are very appealing when you are emotionally vulnerable. What happens is that circular logic takes over. “Moon is one with God. God is going to fix all the problems in the world. All I have to do is humbly follow. Because God is going to stop war and hunger — all these things I wanted to do. All I have to do is humbly follow. Because after all, God is [working through] the messiah. He’s going to fix all this.” It becomes impenetrable. And the most dangerous part of this is that is creates “us” and “them,” “right” and “wrong,” “good” and “evil.” And it makes anything possible. Makes anything rationalizable.

And the thing is, though, if you looked at my brain during those years in the Moonies — Neuroscience is expanding exponentially, as Ray Kurzweil said yesterday. Science is expanding. We’re beginning to look inside the brain. And so if you looked at my brain, or any brain that’s infected with a viral memetic infection like this, and compared it to anyone in this room, or anyone who uses critical thinking on a regular basis, I am convinced it would look very, very different.

And that, strange as it may sound, gives me hope. And the reason that gives me hope is that the first thing is to admit that we have a problem. But it’s a human problem. It’s a scientific problem, if you will. It happens in the human brain. There is no evil force out there to get us. And so this is something that, through research and education, I believe that we can solve. And so the first step is to realize that we can do this together, and that there is no “us” and “them.” Thank you very much.”

5. WhaleRider - August 13, 2010

Viral Memes, are AKA Zombie Lies: Lies that just won’t die, no matter what the facts are.

~Urban Dictionary

Here’s more:

Michael Shermer: “The pattern behind self-deception”

“Feelings of uncertainty and out of control makes people see illusory patterns…the propensity for seeing these patterns goes up when there is a lack of control…turns out that what you are thinking about influences what you see.”

Shermer also points out a correlation between increased dopamine levels in the brain with increased ability to see patterns in meaninglessness…hence the need for anticipated reward of Paradise in the FOF and the cultivated atmosphere of hypervigilance and hypersexuality to increase dopamine levels in followers who will consequently start to believe anything.

6. nige - August 14, 2010

5 Whalerider

“hence the need for anticipated reward of Paradise in the FOF and the cultivated atmosphere of hypervigilance and hypersexuality to increase dopamine levels in followers who will consequently start to believe anything.”

I understand this explicitly. I would feel ‘high’ when visiting the property, almost as a reward to myself for putting up with the financially depressing life I had ‘out in life’. You see, the thing is, REB has it perfectly worked out – PRESENCE TO BEAUTY CREATES EVEN MORE THAN NORMAL SEX ENERGY. Someone (last page) talked of the ‘boredom factor’ of people sitting in front of a computer all day – I suppose most Californians have to endure something like that. Great duality set-up! I am now satisfied with my ‘little creative business’ life and my students and the odd moments of ‘soft synchronicity’…..Nigel.

7. nige - August 14, 2010

This is for all of you, especially Whalerider, while I have a week’s vacation in Cornwall, the most westerly county in England…..

How beautiful upon the mountains,
How beautiful upon the downs,
How beautiful in the village post-office,
On the pavements of towns-
How beautiful in the huge print of newspapers,
Beautiful while telegraph wires hum,
While telephone bells wildly jingle,
The news that peace has come-
That peace has come at last – that all wars cease.
How beautiful upon the mountains are the footsteps
Of the messengers of peace!

Alice Duer Miller, American war poet…..

8. WhaleRider - August 14, 2010

nige:
‘soft synchronicity’ I like that. Thanks for your poem and well wishes, too.

BTW, you mentioned that your computer doesn’t have speakers that allow you to listen to music or videos. By chance does your computer have a phone jack for headphones? Most do and any head phones will work. I have even used the free headphones given out on airline flights.

I highly recommend watching the Michael Shermer piece on self-deception I provided the link to above.

9. Jomo Piñata - August 15, 2010

Michael Shermer’s book Why People Believe Weird Things is very good. “Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.”

10. nige - August 15, 2010

8 Whalerider

Had a chance to view the Shermer video at my dad’s house…..

Belief systems, wow! Now there’s a big one. I believed that the FOF would lead me to higher states of consciousness and, since it was the only group I had belonged to, having joined at age 21, I stayed until the pressure was excrutiating and I ‘cracked’.

However, you cannot make a customer believe you have made a quality piece of jewellery when you have not. That raises my standards; that’s what makes me make efforts…..Nigel.

P.S. The world is real.

11. ton - August 16, 2010

jomo,
associating right along, have you heard of O. Sharmer?
this may or may not be of interest to y’all:

http://www.ottoscharmer.com/

12. Jomo Piñata - August 16, 2010

‘ton,
Haven’t. Good?

13. ton - August 16, 2010

jomo,
check-it-out and decide.
i would say the information is not for everyone, nevertheless it has relevant applications… partly it’s about changing the way we humans communicate.

14. Jomo Piñata - August 17, 2010

I did click the link, and some subsequent links, but not enough to get what turned you on. I’m receptive to your suggestions, but I need a little more than just the link you’ve given here.

If you’re so inclined.

15. ton - August 17, 2010

i don’t know about being “turned on” — and if a person is looking for another “guru” or a “savior” or an “answer man” this is not it — that’s not to suggest that anyone here is still looking for that.
Sharmer’s opus work to date is Theory U… it’s a “doorstopper” of a book, thick, heavy, dense, and it takes work to get through… it’s definitely not for everyone, and i’m not going to detail it here… i will say a few very general things; his use of the word “presencing” will no doubt be a definite “turn off” for exFOFers who’ve had more than enough of burton’s double-speak use of that word. but Sharmer’s use and application of the concept is different… he asks and addresses some important societal questions that need addressing… he deals quite a bit with the individual in relation to the collective and visa versa… and the process of interaction / intra-action / interaction / etc.

like i said, it’s not for everyone… and don’t get me wrong, this is not a sales pitch for Sharmer, you mentioned “Shermer” and the free-association occured… i happen to work with someone who went through a Theory U course last year and together we’ve been processing some of the information since then… the ideas and information represent another “tool” — i know some folks get turned-on by tools but to me it’s about the utility… that means application but if nothing else, it can be food for thought. this is all too vague and general i know, but i won’t break it down further… since you asked for more, here’s an excerpt from a much longer PDF called “seven acupuncture points” — if it’s of interest, you can of course “google” it for more:

“Abstract
This paper explores the underlying system of thought that has led to our current economic, ecological, social, and spiritual crisis and proposes new ideas and leverage points for a green, inclusive, and intentional ecosystem economy. The framework discussed in the paper is based on two main ideas. The first assumes three stages in the evolution of Western capitalism: Capitalism 1.0—the free market or laissez-faire capitalism (focus on growth); capitalism 2.0: a more regulated European-style stakeholder capitalism (focus on redistribution); and capitalism 3.0: an (as-yetunrealized) intentional, inclusive, ecosystem economy that upgrades the capacity for collaboration and innovation throughout all sectors of society (focus on ecosystem innovation). The second identifies seven key dimensions and categories of economic thought that need to be reframed in order to move the economic system from the 2.0 to 3.0 stage. They are:

1. Coordination mechanisms: Upgrade the economic operating system from one driven by competition and special interest group led legislation (“ego-system awareness”) to one that operates from shared seeing and common will (driven by an intentional “eco-system awareness”).

2. Nature: Design all production and consumption cycles completely earth-to-earth (without the need for landfills and in co-evolution with the natural ecosystem).

3. Labor: Create economic human rights (such as basic income, access to health, education, entrepreneurial opportunity) in order to enable all people to actualize their full creativity for shared wealth generation and social well-being.

4. Capital: Redesign and redirect money and capital flows to serve all sectors of the economic system (and develop commons based property rights in support of it).

5. Technology: Build communities of creation to generate breakthrough technologies in areas that matter most to societal needs and aspirations.

6. Leadership: Reinvent leadership learning to facilitate “learning from the emerging future” rather than reproducing the patterns of the past.

7. Public Awareness and Conversation: Create infrastructure innovations that allow all citizens to become aware of their real power in co-creating the intentional ecosystem economy and in deepening our democracy

The problem today is that we try to solve 3.0 challenges with 2.0 frameworks and response patterns. The seven categories of economic thought constitute seven acupuncture points that, if touched upon simultaneously with strategic initiatives, could greatly accelerate the shift of the economic system from 2.0 to 3.0.

The crisis of our time is not about financial or economic bankruptcy. The real crisis of our time is about an intellectual bankruptcy: the bankruptcy of mainstream economic thought over the past three decades and beyond. Just as the crumbling of the Berlin Wall in 1989 marked the end of one fundamentalist approach to society and the economy—socialist state-centric fundamentalism—the toppling of the Wall Street house of cards marked the end of another—neoliberal market-centric fundamentalism.

Yet the public debate and crisis response continue to be framed by the same old categories of economic thought that got us into the whole mess in the first place. To paraphrase Albert Einstein’s famous observation, “The significant problems we have cannot be solved by the same type of thinking that created them.” That, however, is exactly what we are busy trying to do.

There is a growing group of diverging voices, though. One is that of a former IMF Chief Economist, MIT professor Simon Johnson. He suggests that at the heart of our current crisis lies not just a banking crisis but also a political power struggle between Wall Street and government. 2 In a primitive political system, argues Johnson, power is transmitted through violence (military coups, militias, etc.). In a more developed society, power is transmitted through money (bribes, kickbacks, campaign contributions). But in the most advanced societies, according to Johnson, power is transmitted through cultural capital such as belief systems. “Over the past decade,” says Johnson, “the attitude took hold that what was good for Wall Street was good for the country.” That belief system has given Wall Street a de facto veto right over public policymaking that no other group or industry enjoys. Since the beginning of the crisis in fall 2008, this unparalleled influence from Wall Street on Washington has only increased. ”
etc, etc, etc…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.presencing.com/presencing-theoryu/

16. Renald - August 17, 2010

re 15 Ton..Thanks for the effort.
Cheers !

17. WhaleRider - August 17, 2010

Yah, thanks, ton.

Repeating Zombie Lies in the face of evidence…the fundamentalist’s credo.

Just the past few days I’ve been enjoying the talks of one of nige’s countrymen from Oxford, Dr. Richard Dawkins of “The God Delusion” and “The Virus of Religion”, both DVD’s I just recently borrowed from my local library.

Here’s a piece about the teaching of creationism side by side with evolution. I admire this guy for standing up for the facts and challenging delusional religious belief systems. He has his balls intact and evidently thinks with his intellect.

FOFers are taught to think with their emotions and learn to swallow all that rhino poop and other bodily fluids without gagging.

18. X-ray - August 18, 2010

17. WhaleRider – August 17, 2010

‘FOFers are taught to think with their emotions ‘

That would be fine, if that would be the case. Fofers are taught not to think at all, and that’s the real problem.

19. X-ray - August 18, 2010

Thank you Whale

20. nige - August 18, 2010

15 ton

I am currently on vacation with my family, celebrating two birthdays. The sites in Cornwall are beautiful – but something that comes to me at times of ‘presence’ is the fact that humans are mammals and seek to perpetuate the species – the tourists I mean with their families. The book you are reading concerning the individual and society has some significance for me – I have always had the tendency towards an artistic nature – a little bit of the Van Gogh, producing ‘children of the soul’ as Rodney Collin would have it and feel a bit ‘vacant’ when looking at people with their families. Is this food for further thought and discussion?…..Nigel.

21. WhaleRider - August 18, 2010

nige:
Life is bittersweet, is it not? Good job feeling your feelings! They make you shine brighter than any gemstone.

A healthy aspect of our human condition is to be able to feel several feelings at once…pain amid beauty…epiphany during our suffering…and a feeling of longing coupled with moments of presence…(as though the present is somehow incomplete without our attention)

An unhealthy aspect of our human condition arises when a person develops a manipulative personality they employ to do everything they can to avoid feeling their own emotional pain, which in turn unconsciously drives them to inflict that emotional pain upon others, in order to make others feel their pain for them.

Burton, in a great display of unhealthy, unconscious behavior, inflicts his unresolved pain of abandonment that he is avoiding upon those followers he “releases” from his cult. The cost to rejoin is high for good reason; some people will pay anything to avoid pain.

Pain can be useful. I personally experience endorphin-induced pleasure from the muscle soreness I feel after my workout at the gym. The endorphin that my body produces to cope with the muscle pain also effectively helps me sleep better at night. Should I wake up too early, like before the REM dream-stage of sleep, the endorphin inhibits my mind from fixing upon anything stressful or anxiety producing that would normally keep me awake, and I go right back to sleep, waking up later feeling refreshed. That morning stretch feels pretty darn good, too.

I assure you, nige, even if you did have children, and mind you, you are among many former followers here who made the painful choice to end their pregnancies at Burton’s request, you would more than likely feel the same bittersweetness about life as you do right now in beautiful Cornwall.

Children have a habit of growing up. Mine are, right before my eyes. They don’t stay children for long, and believe me, it’s bittersweet, too.

22. nige - August 18, 2010

21 Whalerider

Yes – the question of Burton and his ‘drives’ did occur to me today – you say he acts unconsciously. I wonder if he actually believes what he utters forth through his major face orifice (let us disregard the one he prefers for stimulating his ‘higher centers’ for a while). This would be the ‘warping’ of his psychology through what most people have regarded him as having – Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But what if he is finding that what he had started with some sort of sincerity (how about the fact that ‘conscious shocks’ occur to many of us now outside the FOF – who are the Gods/Angels with now?) is falling about his ears and he is trying to prop it all up with higher payments of all sorts and weirder allusions to the work of ‘Conscious Schools’? It amazes me, from my prospective, of course, how FOF current members can put up with all the crap (including the rhino sort)…..Nigel.

23. Golden Veil - August 18, 2010

Reading the above, I found myself thinking of the people I knew in the Florence, Italy Centre who are now living in or near Oregon House and are still Fellowship members – they seemed so intelligent, so emotionally mature! But the brainwashing that happens in a serious cult catches hold of many individuals, even ones of (seemingly) great intelligence and (seemingly) emotional maturity. I wonder if they see this post, my former Friends?

There MUST BE something unusual in the particular emotional make up of the individuals who stay for decades; something that holds them to this madman’s insane rule. I think that the talk on this T.E.D. video may not only go far to explain where a lot of Robert Burton’s thoughts, directions, and predictions come from; it also may explain why many of us responded to his delusions the way we did. We were so fooled.

Worth re-posting:

* There is a Google Ad at the top of this blog page under Possibly Related Posts! I think it should be removed.

24. silentpurr - August 18, 2010

There is a type of mutual-gratifying student/teacher cycle going on in the Fellowship. It has probably through the decades become as structured as a termite hill. I look at the photos of life-long fellowship students on GF. They look tired. But Robert, queen that he is, has maintained his place at the center . His inner sanctum. Students continue to be cut off emotionally from families they’ve neglected, and fearing separation anxiety from fellowship friendship, they cling to the corporation/hive. They protect it with blind belief.

I too am sorry for fellowship students having to live a life on the fellowship stage….paying and paying and paying.
For what?
Something that cannot be purchased.
Something they already possess but are too bug-brained to realize!

25. nige - August 18, 2010

Falmouth Bay – Dusk

Strong lights on the tanker-ships
Under low puffy clouds that lazily pass.
Seagulls slowly gliding either seaward or landward.
I stay awhile out on the deck then re-enter our hotel,
Order a double (straight-no-ice) Glenmorangie
And swop my debit card for a key-
Purple number one;
(Highlander, director’s cut)

…..Nigel.

26. fofblogmoderator - August 19, 2010

#23 “There is a Google Ad at the top of this blog page under Possibly Related Posts! I think it should be removed”.

Unfortunately the “related posts” links are automatically generated by WordPress and it is out of my control.

27. nige - August 19, 2010

Thought you all might like these lyrics from ‘Les Miserables’…..

God on high, hear my prayer.
In my need you have always been there.
He is young, he’s afraid.
Let him rest, Heaven blessed.
Bring him home.
Bring him home.
Bring him home.

He’s like the son I might have known
if God had granted me a son.
The summers die, one by one.
How soon they fly on and on.
And I am old and will be gone…

Bring him peace, bring him joy.
He is young. He is only a boy.
You can take. You can give.
Let him be. Let him live.
If I die, let me die.
Let him live.
Bring him home.
Bring him home.
Bring him home.

(Shall we dedicate this to those young men who are being ‘interfered with’?…..Nigel.)

28. Wouldnt You Like To Know - August 20, 2010

’26. fofblogmoderator – August 19, 2010
#23 “There is a Google Ad at the top of this blog page under Possibly Related Posts! I think it should be removed”.

Unfortunately the “related posts” links are automatically generated by WordPress and it is out of my control.’

Given current economic conditions, it is understandable that revenue needs to be generated somehow and this is likely one way WordPress is adding to their bottom line. It is a small price to pay for a free blog that, until now, has been hosted permanently with them – alot of pages there. Count your blessings. Ning, who hosts the Greater Fellowship, now is charging fees for much of their services.

29. brucelevy - August 20, 2010

30. another name - August 20, 2010

A whole series of youtubes about the “bipolar and psychosis and the healing aspects of this phenomena.

It is amaaaaaaazing and makes me view the cult(s) very different. And I am still digesting…

What this person says about approaching a person with bipolar with love is sooo my experience, Makes such a different. Great Movie for this young student in Amsterdam who came psychotic.

Healing is in the air and soooo needed.

Enjoy.

31. another name - August 20, 2010

wooooooh

32. another name - August 20, 2010

It sounds like Robert Burton is stuck in his healing?

33. nige - August 21, 2010

32 another name

Although I cannot get Youtube on my computer, I hope you are deriving benefit from viewing the videos. I have been battling with bipolar affective disorder for all my adult life (in the FOF and beyond) and have found solace in the Mental Health Authorities, my family and true, true friends. Most people suffering from bipolar have to take medication (including myself) to deal with it. But the greatest ‘sword of truth’ is self-understanding…..Nigel.

34. ton - August 21, 2010

32: “It sounds like Robert Burton is stuck in his healing”

Question:
Is there a point in waiting for the narcissist to heal? Can he ever get better?

Answer:
The victims of the narcissist’s abusive conduct resort to fantasies and self-delusions to salve their pain.

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html

35. Tatyana - August 21, 2010

31, 32 like

The only thing this “Who are you?” question makes me want to back to FOF and keep struggling with lower self.

As the Russian saying goes:
“I’m not I
and my horse is not mine.”

36. silentpurr - August 21, 2010

I think the conflict for Robert is with the outside world and with anything that reflects his imbalance or questions his perceptions. Long ago he surrendered to his infantile narcissistic identity. There isn’t struggle which could lead to healing.
The struggle for Robert is to MAINTAIN his life-style, with the support of fellowship students. Robert has escaped INTO his delusion, because that’s where safety is for him.

37. another name - August 21, 2010

38. nige - August 21, 2010

In the Bible it says – “The things that are not, seem to be and seek to overpower the things that really are”

Put another way – Burton and his enablers are devouring the work and lives of his followers, no matter how well-intentioned the followers may be.

Also, to ‘another name’ – Burton is not merely psychotic (a state from which healing is possible), he is a psychopath (dangerously and irretrievably, psychologically warped) and a sociopath (a psychological scourge on society). God help the sincere ‘students’!!!!!

39. WhaleRider - August 21, 2010

another name:
Thank you for the thought-provoking links. I like the last part of the first piece about humans becoming more integrated (science, religion, and the quest for truth) as a stage of their personal growth-evolution and have yet to see the second piece until I digest the first.

Here are my thoughts about the first piece. Personally, I don’t agree with the dualistic, “ego vs. soul” framework the speaker presents, despite the fancy photos. I feel the speaker is presenting a fallacious, oversimplification of the soul, if it exists at all, using the specialized language of mental health professionals, without being fully informed.

There are many sub-categories of Bi-Polar Disorder; the cycling between mania and depression is not so clear cut as the speaker suggests in the diagrams. There is Bi-Polar Depressed, Bi-Polar Manic, and Bi-Polar Mixed, and Bi-Polar with Psychotic Features, etc. A person can be suffering from Bi-Polar Disorder Depressed, for instance, and only rarely experience mania, and some whose mania never progresses to psychosis at all. Psychosis can also occur during the lows of depression, too, not just with the highs of mania.

Here’s what raises red flags for me. If there is a soul, and it is released from the fetters of the ego and the bounds of reality in a psychotic episode to fully express itself, then why would the person’s soul experiencing such a state of freedom cause them to do harm to themselves or others or feel paranoia? The speaker’s analogy seems counterintuitive to me based upon my experience of people dealing with these forms of mental illness.

If one can equate manic-induced psychosis as a spiritual awakening at all, I believe this would be the case only for a small minority of people afflicted with the mental illness, and those people, IMO, would tend to have had a spiritual or religious foundation of experiences and framework in place prior, since we view the world through the lens of our experience, surroundings and upbringing.

And my own experience of depression had nothing to do with an overbearing ego, but manifested in me from my primal anger directed at myself when my ego was at a weak point in my divorce process. So I don’t agree that depression is caused from the ego suppressing the soul. Depression involves poor ego boundaries, not rigid ones.

I view the dichotomy in our human psyche the speaker presents as simply the difference in functioning between the conscious and unconscious mind. I’d like to think, as Jung does, that the soul is a landing pad for the godly impulse of compassion, buried in the unconscious mind along with other aspects of our psyche.

To me there is no question that the soul craves freedom, so does the ego, and mental illness involves much more than just chemical imbalances in the brain. How we think effects how we feel.

To say that the soul is all our unexpressed feelings, impulses, and perceptions that the ego suppresses is a bit naive, IMHO. We are talking about the reptilian part of the brain here too, you know.

Doesn’t the soul, if it exists, have something to do with having a conscience and feelings of compassion? Don’t we regard people with sociopathic and psychopathic personalities without consciences as soulless, evil, cold-blooded killers and criminals?

I do agree that we can learn something of how the mind works from when it doesn’t work so well as in brain disorders, traumatic brain injuries, and mental illnesses. I don’t believe people with mental illness are evil.

And it makes perfect sense to learn from our suffering, either mental or physical, and frame our pain into opportunities for personal growth rather than be stigmatized by our human condition in all its frailty as people dealing with mental illnesses often feel.

40. nige - August 21, 2010

39 Whalerider

I am a bipolar ‘sufferer’. Most of the time, I am stable, efficient and socially functional. When I experience bipolar ‘going to extreme’ it is normally when stress, made acute through not taking my ‘downers’ medication, leads me into heightened/manic states. It is a fine margin between being happy and going over into aggressive anti-social behaviour, when confronted with the Mental Health Authorities and the Emergency Services. We used to theorize about Higher Emotional Center and Higher Intellectual Center and I think those can be experienced with the ‘Cradle of the Soul’ in hypo-manic states. Also, my artistic abilities ‘shine through’ in these states. It was interesting to note that, while in the FOF, in California, I went into ‘artistic highs’ and had to ‘slog through’ the ‘intermediary lows’.

I think the members of FOF are being numbed into a sense of quasi-social well-being which will never lead them into Higher States or experience of the Self…..Nigel

P.S. REB has not indicated that anyone other than GH has grown to the state of a Man Number Five or greater. What a load of quasi-esoteric bullshit!!!!!…..Nigel.

41. brucelevy - August 21, 2010

42. WhaleRider - August 21, 2010

another name:
I enjoyed the second piece more than the first despite the problem I had with the speaker’s original premise.

The prospect of supportive therapy for episodes of acute psychosis is indeed intriguing, although time consuming and labor intensive, and the second piece sets up a framework for a possible better understanding, acceptance, and respect for each person’s healing process and personal growth no matter how bizarre or taboo.

Given that people with mental illness have long been marginalized and even persecuted due to the public’s fear and misunderstanding of these terrible diseases, I am in favor of keeping an open mind, listening, and attending to the needs of people so afflicted, and whenever possible, providing them with support…instead of incarceration.

My experience is that society doesn’t usually devote the financial nor human resources needed to effectively heal severe mental illnesses, especially in those who lack money and a political voice, but only acts to protect itself by providing the necessary means to manage the symptoms of mental illness after the fact, without adequately addressing the cause.

We ought to be responsible for our own healing no matter how stuck we are, and yet there are those who live among us who are not capable of healing themselves. I applaud the speaker, as an apparent sufferer of mental illness, for speaking up for himself.

nige:
I applaud you, too.

43. another name - August 22, 2010

Thanks whale rider

I am on my 13 youtube…studying the subject and I am learning and also agree with you about mistreating people God may knows why. Often due to a lack of awareness and education perhaps?

Awareness for us and maybe support to people who are going to psychosis and helping them to get through 3-5 days,.could be a journey also or us….

I wish we could have given care to people in the fof when they went through their psychosis as Brian and Brian and J and others….

Thanks again I appreciate your energy in sending 2 emails on the subject as it kept me questioning too.
No 14 for you and me and everybody.

44. WhaleRider - August 22, 2010

“…prison is a place where fear becomes a lifestyle…”

The same is true of cults.

Here three men come to terms with their humanity and suffering in a non-psychotic, non-religious, non-hollywood episode of spiritual cleansing and healing….sans the graphic hyperbole.

45. nige - August 22, 2010

‘Vincent’, by Don Maclean
(Van Gogh was a bipolar sufferer)

Starry, starry night
paint your palette blue and grey
look out on a summer’s day
with eyes that know the
darkness in my soul.

Shadows on the hills
sketch the trees and the daffodils
catch the breeze and the winter chills
in colors on the snowy linen land.

And now I understand what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
they would not listen
they did not know how
perhaps they’ll listen now.

Starry , starry night
flaming flowers that brightly blaze
swirling clouds in violet haze reflect in
Vincent’s eyes of China blue.
colors changing hue
morning fields of amber grain
weathered faces lined in pain
are soothed beneath the artist’s
loving hand.

And now I understand what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
perhaps they’ll listen now.

For they could not love you
but still your love was true
and when no hope was left in sight
on that starry, starry night.
you took your life
as lovers often do;
But I could have told you Vincent
this world was never
meant for one
as beautiful as you.

Starry, starry night
portraits hung in empty halls
frame-less heads on nameless walls
with eyes that watch the world and can’t forget.
like the strangers that you’ve met
the ragged men in ragged clothes
the silver thorn a bloody rose
lie crushed and broken
on the virgin snow.

And now I think I know what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
they would not listen
they’re not listening still
perhaps they never will.

46. nige - August 22, 2010

43 another name

I was thinking about those extreme states in bipolar disorder…..

Depression (when it becomes clinical depression and not just the ‘low’ that most people experience now and again in their lives) is accompanied by feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness AND AN ABILITY TO FEEL JOY ABOUT THE PRESENT.

Elation is different, although both elation and depression can be brought on by stress. Being ‘high’, one FEELS MORE, SEES MORE AND THINKS ABOUT THE PRESENT MORE. One can become deliriously happy until obstacles to this happiness and other people’s negative comments about one’s energy cause one to become aggressive and defensive.

REB is entirely different. His GREED AND DOMINANCE are fed by the PERVERTED SEX-ENERGY of his dalliances with heterosexual young men. The man would be a no-hoper in any kind of therapy…..Nigel.

47. Renald - August 22, 2010

Thanks to whalerider, nige, and another name. To me these ideas go to show just how powerful the effects of labeling really are. Through glasses darkly… Labeling is like providing someone with a set of glasses through which to see and understand? the world around us. It gives us a perspective. This perspective could be called “the program“ or programing. Simple but very powerful. I guess this is where the idea of de-programming comes in referring to cult members. A new set of healthy glasses need to be acquired. This is not as easy as it sounds because the prior set has become the set of choice due to habit or addiction. These labels also shape our politics (as whalerider stated above). If you want to see just how sick people can get, especially the younger people, just scout out the boards commenting on online news articles. There it can be easily seen how powerful is the media in providing people with the glasses or programs of their choice in order to influence them as regards their politics or agendas. One warning though, don`t get caught up in the mire. The mud is sticky and it is meant to be. Some of the posters on there are showing severe signs of sociopathy and it is just a matter of time that they will get into severe trouble. They mean well, they just aren`t well.
Cheers !!

48. WhaleRider - August 23, 2010

brucelevy:

This one’s for you.

49. nige - August 23, 2010

Thought ‘another name’ might enjoy this ‘snippet’…..

“Working through (Durcharbeit), the most important part of any analysis, is essentially an education in the process of assuming a tragic relationship to oneself by accepting the suffering that self-knowledge entails. Rather than seeking a magical solution to depression, one must sustain it as that melancholy that Keats called “the wakeful anguish of the soul.” Becoming responsible for oneself depends on a single circumstance: the concrete and bitter immersion in the particulars of one’s life in a recognition of one’s responsibility as cause. No satanic agency produced one’s condition and no messianic agency will come to blow it away. One must uncover those things in oneself that have shaped the self-lacerating history of one’s heart. There is only one source of inner strength, and the way to it is full acceptance of the suffering that is our deepest attunement to ourselves. Authentic self-analysis is based on the recognition that there is no deliverance from desire and inner conflict.”
(“Bible Says”, page 279)

50. nige - August 23, 2010

“When we regard ourselves in the many situations life brings, we find
that from first breath to last we are conditioned by external factors. Yet is that highest freedom left to us – to perfect ourselves within, so as that we shall come into harmony with the moral world order and attain peace with ourselves, no matter what obstacles may emerge. This is easily said and written, yet it is no more than a goal before us, to the achievement of which we must thouroughly dedicate ourselves. Every day challenges us to do what is to be done and expect whatever is possible.”
Goethe

51. nige - August 23, 2010

Here’s one for Burton…..

“The world should lose her qualities if the celestial spheres should forget their wanted motions; if nature should intermit her colours and leave altogether the observations of her own laws: if the moon should wander from her beaten way; the times and seasons blend themselves by disordered and confused mixture: what shall become of man who sees not plainly that obedience unto the laws of nature is the stay of the whole world.”
Poetry on Heavitree Sculpture 2009

52. nige - August 23, 2010

in2it wrote this…..

“-Appreciating relaxation, silence, and rest, but also recognizing when vocalism and action and dissent are welcomed by the universe, and finding the answer to that question in our conscience — however difficult that is to define or describe.”

53. nige - August 23, 2010

Here is true evolution…..

“The self by its nature knows itself only. For lack of experience whatever it perceives it takes to be itself. Battered, it learns to look out and to live alone. When right behaviour becomes normal, a powerful inner urge makes it seek its source. The candle of the body is lighted and all becomes clear and bright.” – Nisargadatta

54. nige - August 23, 2010

by Keats, an English poet…..

And I have felt
A presence that disturbs me with a joy
Of elevated thoughts; a sense sublime
Of something far more deeply interfused,
Whose dwelling is the light of setting suns,
And the round ocean, and the living air,
And the blue sky, and in the mind of man,
A motion and a spirit, that impels
All thinking things, all objects of all thought,
And rolls through all things. Therefore am I still
A lover of the meadows and the woods,
And mountains: and of all that we behold
From this green earth: of all the mighty world
Of eye and ear, both what they half-create,
And what perceive; well pleased to recognize
In nature and the language of the sense,
The anchor of my purest thoughts, the nurse,
The guide, the guardian of my heart, and soul
Of all my moral being.

55. silentpurr - August 24, 2010

he also wrote…

When I have fears that I may cease to be
Before my pen has gleaned my teeming brain,
Before high pil’ed booke, in charact’ry,
Hold like rich garners the full ripened grain;
When I behold the night’s starred face,
Huge cloudy symbols of a high romance,
And think that I may never live to trace
Their shadows with the magic hand of chance…

56. another name - August 25, 2010

dear Nigel

Vincent could have been a bipolar…..he also had syphilis. So what is what…. I had an intimate confrontation years ago watching his self portrait in Paris and I drew several of his self portraits. I can not “label” him and yet on the same token, I “understand/ understood” him deeper then ever.

BTW I love this song.From Don Mclean and love his approach and his understanding of Vincent. Btw Legion of Honor has several works of Vincent coming in Autumn. Unique exposition from the Musee d’Orsay.

57. nige - August 25, 2010

another name and Whalerider….

This morning, I met with my Consultant Outpatient Psychiatrist, my Community Psychiatric Nurse and the psychiatrist at the head of the Crisis Resolution Team. My father and my stepmother were also present. The consultant ‘led’ the meeting and we discussed everything from how I had been coping mentally and emotionally with my life, which included a great deal of emphasis placed on my business and how important it was for me to keep it going (with help from all aspects of the Mental Health Authorities) and my social life (where I tend to want to be with ‘normal’ people rather than be in a bipolar ‘club’). All three mental health persons above were women and I made a point of mentioning how important it was that this was a good position for me to be in, since, when I become unwell, it is really difficult for me to have dealings with male figures in the mental health teams (this is something I have found ‘from bitter experience’ and not just some sexist preference). My father and stepmother both seemed to think that I should be ‘moulded’ by the authorities into a ‘socially normal person’, but the three women kept emphasising the NEED FOR INDIVIDUALITY AND MY OWN UNDERSTANDING OF MY CONDITION. I feel that I am in good hands for the future…..Nigel.

58. ton - August 26, 2010

“The original idea of morality, in Freudian theory had to do with the three-cornered relationship between Father, Mother and Child. That is the age-old myth of the Oedipus saga and I think it is helpful to realize it. In his treatment of neurotic patients, Freud found in a vast majority of cases that they seemed to have inner conflicts and problems because they didn’t trust their own capacity for love. They were uncertain about it, and some developed certain mechanisms of self-punishment such as those found in certain types of neurosis. At the root of it, the patients will describe situations usually with their parents in quite early infancy, which they couldn’t really master. From his cases, Freud concluded that the Oedipus saga is not only just a majestic story of what once happened, but that it is the description of an unavoidable, always necessary situation; namely, that the young helpless child experiences that there are certain possessive qualities within his natural love for his mother, and feels that he thereby comes into conflict with his father, although he leaves his father. He is put into this difficult situation, in which his conflict gives him the first inklings of guilt. That normally solves itself somehow and we derive our normal potential of morality because we somehow learn to cope with the fact that our love contains elements that are necessarily negative. An infant’s love for his mother is primary. It is not love in the sense of St. Paul, but it is biological love, instinctual love which has its roots in the force of sympathy long before sympathy is mitigated by the force of, antipathy. If it goes wrong, it causes both illness and many problems, but if it goes well we acquire the ability to feel guilt, to feel that some things are good and others bad. We are not born with that ability but we develop that in our mastery of the Oedipal situation, in our transcending and understanding that our love does contain aggressive elements and that thereby we create and have to endure conflict. If we learn to deal with it we mature, and we mature morally…. the source of the power of empathy is that maturational process which consists in our learning to tolerate and accept the ambivalence of primary forces in us. Love as a primary force—not when it is sublimated and differentiated and tempered by our understanding—but as a primary force, is unavoidably aggressive and destructive, otherwise it could not be a force. There is a statue by Henry Moore which can be disturbing when seen. It is a mother with her infant, the infant formed like a picking bird with a wide open beak, who is held away by the mother at a distance. Moore has made many Madonna and Child images bur this particular one points to what I have described as the untempered elements, necessary elements, of love. That can be subconscious, but a real mastery and conscious handling of the force of empathy can only arise out of our consciousness of the ambivalence of basic emotions…. There is no insurance that because one has goodwill, that it can only bring about pleasure. That is a childish idea. To the extent to which we have learned within ourselves to cope, we can then extend empathy, we can meet others and help them to cope as well. In our learning to understand, to tolerate the ambivalence of our emotions, an ambivalence unavoidable and necessary, we can also accept it in others, without blaming them, without meaning to show them where they have gone wrong, but with understanding.

While love is often impatient, empathy is patient. While love is often aggressive, empathy is kind. While love is often generous, empathy envies no’ one Love is often proud, but empathy is never boastful, nor conceited . While love is often selfish and very easy to take offense, empathy is never selfish and never takes offense. Empathy keeps no score of wrongs, does not gloat over other men’s sins, but delights in the truth. There is nothing empathy cannot face. There is no end to its faith, hope and its endurance.”

thomas weihs

59. WhaleRider - August 26, 2010

“Empathy, which literally translates as in feeling, is the capability to share another being’s emotions and feelings.”

“Empathic listening, also known as active listening, a method of listening that involves understanding both the content of a message as well as the intent of the sender and the circumstances under which the message is given.”

~Wikipedia

It goes without saying, nonetheless…for some, Life can become the Way of Empathy…practicing empathy is what helps us heal our own narcissistic wounds and fully mature (evolve) as human beings…unless that is, you are taught to regard the world as populated by sleeping, broken machines or unworthy people stuck in their lower selves…

The practice of empathy for others is looked down upon in the fourth way as acting like a “stupid saint” and considered an energy leak. Why?

The cult leader must “teach” his followers to dispense with any empathy for others and train them to only serve his needs…which also is an unconscious display of the cult leader’s complete lack of empathy.

After all, Burton learned from Alex Horn fairly quickly that it is far more profitable and less painful to be a leader than a follower…Burton was a follower for a very short time.

The FOF, the “Way of Love”, like most cults, just teaches people how to be better narcissists by agreeing to exist in complete servitude of the cult leader, the founding narcissist.

This why, IMO, followers will fantasize about becoming a cult leader themselves. The cult provides no other role model for an “awakened being”.

When the follower’s narcissism is fully ripened years down the road, then they either leave or they collapse back into co-dependence and degrade themselves in order to remain connected to the gold-plated umbilical cord.

When a follower leaves, the shock of readjusting to life reopens the follower’s original narcissistic wounds…which can reinforce the unhealthy belief that they are unworthy and incomplete without cult membership and the relief from cognitive dissonance it provides.

Also, one of the “shadow parts” of love that Weihs doesn’t mention in the above quote is how love can be exploitative. By possessing the object of our love, then we then are able to exploit the good feelings the object provides…hence Burton’s unconscious drive to exploit his followers.

Thanks, ton.

Your post carries some personal synchronicity for me. The past few days I have been watching the AlJazeera “Witness” series of documentaries on YouTube as fine examples of filmmakers practicing empathy, with many stories of compassion occurring all around the world…light years from Oregon House.

For me, empathy is a source of energy, not a drain. My children teach me empathy, too.

another name:
Thanks for your links, too. I can appreciate how the author reframes his suffering into a spiritual transformation rather than just a brain disorder. For all of us, the process of peeling back the layers of our childish delusions is indeed how we grow and evolve.

I still disagree with his basic premise that life is a struggle between the ego and the soul or the real and the false. Certainly delusions seem real to the person having them.

My experience informs me that in mental illness there is a struggle not just between two sides of the psyche, but an intense inner conflict, struggle, and sometimes even a war between the many fragmented parts of the self…and the soul, IMO, is the pearl that washes ashore after the typhoon subsides. There has to be a beach left, too.

60. WhaleRider - August 26, 2010

another name:
I also found it interesting to note in the above bi-polar piece that in order to avoid “wrecking the car” and causing harm, the person in a psychotic process needs to enlist the help of at least two full-time support people, in order to guide him through the morass of his delusions…some say it takes a village.

61. X-ray - August 27, 2010

In case you missed it:

Censored Fellowship of Friends cult letter from former legal council David Springfield, 2009

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Censored_Fellowship_of_Friends_cult_letter_from_former_legal_council_David_Springfield,_2009

62. Opus 111 - August 27, 2010

Epictetus Excerpt the least likely to be read at a FOF event:

“Sex is not a game. It gives rise to real enduring emotional and practical consequences. To ignore this is to debase yourself, and to disregard the significance of human relationships… An active sex life within a framework of personal commitment augments the integrity of the people involved and is part of a flourishing life.”

From the Art of Living, Epictetus, adapted by Sharon Lebell

63. nige - August 27, 2010

62 Opus 111

I have had cause to think about this subject as I have grown older and have less of the ‘raw and overt’ sexual urges that I did in my late teens and twenties (that was the only time I had any real sexual relationships). Sexuality expresses itself not only in lasting emotional/physical relationships. I have to take anti-psychotic medication one side-effect of which is the tendency to subdue sex-energy (several years ago I was not taking my medication and was arrested as a ‘danger to myself or others’ – the arresting officer said he would have had to charge me with sexual harassment had I not had a history of mental imbalance).

I think if one can contain one’s sexuality and have respect for others (if one is not in an active sexual relationship) then one has gone a long way in human evolution. Burton has no respect for others (in any type of relationship) so we would expect his Viagra-fuelled orgiastic lifestyle to ‘kick back’ into his psychological make-up and turn him evermore into the self-centered monster that he has already become.

Nigel.

64. WhaleRider - August 28, 2010

another name:

65. another name - August 29, 2010

Thanks Whalerider.

Yes I knew about R.D Laing, he got convicted for sexual harassment with his clients….sad. Interesting youtube.

The interesting part about “psychiatric patients ” is the correlation with sexual and or physical or emotional abused. I was speaking with a pastor visiting a young “psychiatric patient” and he said; Did you ever see ” “psychiatric patient” being cured by drugs? I had to really think and could not come up with one person?

Family dynamics are very interesting. Liz Green wrote a book on family dynamics and repetition in families. Also did Anna Freud. I myself in my own work history have seen dazzling repetitions of family issues, abuse, illnesses and events, generation after generation. Most criminals,I encountered have a history of abuse. Yes we as a nation, as people are not very aware of what we do to our children. A lack of awareness….dictates our behavior. I have seen many health personnel including doctors triggering certain reactions with patients. We have a joke that every doctor attracts his own kind of patients. And if this is true it is also true for all of us. Or in different words ” the teacher appears in front of us in many forms and shapes. This is one of the reason I love using Ho Oponopono

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho%27oponopono

Robert Scare did research in 20.000 cases of whiplashes and discovered people who have whiplashes and heal slow have an earlier trauma which is somehow triggered. Very interesting. Many of Americans born in a hospital ( and most of us did) started of with a birth trauma. (As is the case in Russia).

Family secrets are an other source of illnesses. Interesting is to study your own family history, socially, spiritually and physically. a lot to learn and how to maybe do things differently?

Good luck and Ho Oponopono to all of you.

66. another name - August 29, 2010

Sorry, Laing was never convicted for sexual harassment. He was convinced sexual abuse was part of schizophrenia.

67. nige - August 29, 2010

test name and email

68. nige - August 29, 2010

65 another name

I am not too sure that it is useful to try to discover ‘social reasons’ for problems such as bipolar or schizophrenia. If some one has a leg missing, they have a leg missing and you deal with them as they are and for what they may, through the healing process of psychotherapy, become in the future. There are all too many psychiatrists who are on the ‘power/dependency’ bandwagon (and, especially, sadly, in the USA) who really do not want the healing process for their clients. Remember the slogan is ‘Mental Health’ not mental ill-health…..Nigel.

69. nige - August 29, 2010

Psychosis – Wikipedia definition…..

Psychosis (from the Greek ψυχή “psyche”, for mind/soul, and -ωσις “-osis”, for abnormal condition) means abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a “loss of contact with reality”. People suffering from psychosis are described as psychotic.

People experiencing psychosis may report hallucinations or delusional beliefs, and may exhibit personality changes and thought disorder. Depending on its severity, this may be accompanied by unusual or bizarre behavior, as well as difficulty with social interaction and impairment in carrying out the daily life activities.

A wide variety of central nervous system diseases, from both external poisons and internal physiologic illness, can produce symptoms of psychosis.

However, many people have unusual and unshared (distinct) experiences of what they perceive to be different realities without fitting the clinical definition of psychosis. For example, many people in the general population have experienced hallucinations related to religious or paranormal experience. As a result, it has been argued that psychosis is simply an extreme state of consciousness that falls beyond the norms experienced by most. In this view, people who are clinically found to be psychotic may simply be having particularly intense or distressing experiences (see schizotypy).

70. nige - August 29, 2010

Schizophrenia – Wikipedia definition…..

Schizophrenia (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/) is a serious mental illness characterized by a disintegration of the process of thinking and of emotional responsiveness. It most commonly manifests as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction. Onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with around 1.5% lifetime prevalence of the population affected. Diagnosis is based on the patient’s self-reported experiences and observed behavior. No laboratory test for schizophrenia currently exists.

Studies suggest that genetics, early environment, neurobiology, psychological and social processes are important contributory factors; some recreational and prescription drugs appear to cause or worsen symptoms. Current psychiatric research is focused on the role of neurobiology, but no single organic cause has been found. As a result of the many possible combinations of symptoms, there is debate about whether the diagnosis represents a single disorder or a number of discrete syndromes. Despite the etymology of the term from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, “to split”) and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; “mind”), schizophrenia does not imply a “split mind” and it is not the same as dissociative identity disorder (previously known as multiple personality disorder or split personality), a condition with which it is often confused in public perception.

Increased dopamine activity in the mesolimbic pathway of the brain is commonly found in people with schizophrenia. The mainstay of treatment is antipsychotic medication; this type of drug primarily works by suppressing dopamine activity. Dosages of antipsychotics are generally lower than in the early decades of their use. Psychotherapy, and vocational and social rehabilitation are also important. In more serious cases—where there is risk to self and others—involuntary hospitalization may be necessary, although hospital stays are less frequent and for shorter periods than they were in previous times.

The disorder is thought to mainly affect cognition, but it also usually contributes to chronic problems with behavior and emotion. People with schizophrenia are likely to have additional (comorbid) conditions, including major depression and anxiety disorders; the lifetime occurrence of substance abuse is around 40%. Social problems, such as long-term unemployment, poverty and homelessness, are common. Furthermore, the average life expectancy of people with the disorder is 10 to 12 years less than those without, due to increased physical health problems and a higher suicide rate (about 5%).

71. nige - August 29, 2010

Bipolar affective disorder – wikipedia definition…..

Bipolar disorder or manic-depressive disorder, which is also referred to as bipolar affective disorder or manic depression, is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a category of mood disorders defined by the presence of one or more episodes of abnormally elevated energy levels, cognition, and mood with or without one or more depressive episodes. The elevated moods are clinically referred to as mania or, if milder, hypomania. Individuals who experience manic episodes also commonly experience depressive episodes, or symptoms, or mixed episodes in which features of both mania and depression are present at the same time. These episodes are usually separated by periods of “normal” mood; but, in some individuals, depression and mania may rapidly alternate, which is known as rapid cycling. Extreme manic episodes can sometimes lead to such psychotic symptoms as delusions and hallucinations. The disorder has been subdivided into bipolar I, bipolar II, cyclothymia, and other types, based on the nature and severity of mood episodes experienced; the range is often described as the bipolar spectrum.

Data from the United States on lifetime prevalence varies; but it indicates a rate of around 1% for bipolar I, 0.5%–1% for bipolar II or cyclothymia, and 2%–5% for subthreshold cases meeting some, but not all, criteria. The onset of full symptoms generally occurs in late adolescence or young adulthood. Diagnosis is based on the person’s self-reported experiences, as well as observed behavior. Episodes of abnormality are associated with distress and disruption and an elevated risk of suicide, especially during depressive episodes. In some cases, it can be a devastating long-lasting disorder. In others, it has also been associated with creativity, goal striving, and positive achievements. There is significant evidence to suggest that many people with creative talents have also suffered from some form of bipolar disorder.

Genetic factors contribute substantially to the likelihood of developing bipolar disorder, and environmental factors are also implicated. Bipolar disorder is often treated with mood stabilizer medications and, sometimes, other psychiatric drugs. Psychotherapy also has a role, often when there has been some recovery of stability. In serious cases, in which there is a risk of harm to oneself or others, involuntary commitment may be used. These cases generally involve severe manic episodes with dangerous behavior or depressive episodes with suicidal ideation. There are widespread problems with social stigma, stereotypes, and prejudice against individuals with a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.[citation needed] People with bipolar disorder exhibiting psychotic symptoms can sometimes be misdiagnosed as having schizophrenia, another serious mental illness.

The current term “bipolar disorder” is of fairly recent origin and refers to the cycling between high and low episodes (poles). A relationship between mania and melancholia had long been observed, although the basis of the current conceptualisation can be traced back to French psychiatrists in the 1850s. The term “manic-depressive illness” or psychosis was coined by German psychiatrist Emil Kraepelin in the late nineteenth century, originally referring to all kinds of mood disorder. German psychiatrist Karl Leonhard split the classification again in 1957, employing the terms unipolar disorder (major depressive disorder) and bipolar disorder.

72. nige - August 29, 2010

Sociopath – definition…..

A closer fit…draw your own conclusions folks

Antisocial Personality Disorder is also known as psychopathy or sociopathy. Individuals with this disorder have little regard for the feeling and welfare of others. As a clinical diagnosis it is usually limited to those over age 18. It can be diagnosed in younger people if the they commit isolated antisocial acts and do not show signs of
another mental disorder.

Antisocial Personality Disorder is chronic, beginning in adolescence and continuing throughout adulthood. There are ten general symptoms:

not learning from experience
no sense of responsibility
inability to form meaningful relationships
inability to control impulses
lack of moral sense
chronically antisocial behavior
no change in behavior after punishment
emotional immaturity
lack of guilt
self-centeredness

People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior. They may not work. If they do work, they are frequently absent or may quit suddenly. They do not consider other people’s wishes, welfare or
rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain personal pleasure or profit. They may default on loans, fail to provide child support, or fail to care for their dependents adequately. High risk
sexual behavior and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness, failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility,
and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of others are traits of the antisocial personality.

Socioeconomic status, gender, and genetic factors play a role. Males are more likely to be antisocial than females. Those from lower socioeconomic groups are more susceptible. A family history of the disorder puts one at higher risk.

There are many theories about the cause of Antisocial Personality Disorder including experiencing neglectful parenting as a child, low
levels of certain neurotransmitters in the brain, and belief that antisocial behavior is justified because of difficult circumstances.
Psychotherapy, group therapy, and family therapy are common treatments. The effects of medical treatment are inconclusive. Unfortunately, most people with Antisocial Personality Disorder
reject treatment. Therefore, recovery rates are low.

73. nige - August 29, 2010

Once upon a time, Burton said he would die at 72.

…..Nigel.

74. Renald - August 29, 2010

73. nige The gods are sociopaths?

75. nige - August 29, 2010

No – Burton is – and several of his enablers…..

Nigel

76. nige - August 29, 2010

“I cannot praise a fugitive and cloistered virtue, unexcercised and unbreathed, that never sallies out and sees her adversary, but slinks out of the race, where that immortal garland is to be run for, not without dust and heat…that which purifies us is trial, and trial is by what is contrary.” – John Milton

77. silentpurr - August 29, 2010

Gee nige that’s next year! Is the pyramid prepared?

78. nige - August 29, 2010

74 Renald
77 silentpurr

Don’t get me wrong – is this silly week?….Nigel

79. silentpurr - August 29, 2010

Every week is silly week for some.

80. silentpurr - August 30, 2010

Well, not EVERY week, but nearly.

81. WhaleRider - August 30, 2010

nige:
“I am not too sure that it is useful to try to discover ‘social reasons’ for problems such as bipolar or schizophrenia….If some one has a leg missing, they have a leg missing and you deal with them as they are and for what they may…”

Laing isn’t looking to blame anyone; he’s acting conscientiously in the best interest of his patients, in direct opposition to the status quo of mental health care in his day.

Laing’s point was that if you are already missing a leg, it’s probably not a good idea to send you back to a room full of alligators…hence the social rehab model of half-way houses was born.

Undoubtedly that healing process won’t happen in a cult either, as we have seen with the FOF followers with mental illness who have become worse as a result of their experiences there.

Adherents to Burton’s delusional system will claim that mental illness is a mechanical problem and their group is not designed to heal mental illness…as evidenced by Burton’s behavior.

another name:

I found the Laing piece from the BBC documentary, “The Trap”, very intriguing, too, and complimentary to the bi-polar piece on “Family Secrets” you posted.

Laing points out that some of the crazy-making, incubating behavior of unhealthy, narcissistic parents stems from setting impossible conditions for their love which their children cannot possibly meet.

That same crazy-making behavior of setting impossible conditions exists in the FOF, especially for women.

82. nige - August 30, 2010

81 Whalerider

I really do not know how or what it will take for current FOF followers to understand that Burton is a CRAZY DELUSIONAL MANIAC!…..Nigel.

83. X-ray - August 31, 2010

Sex maniac and drug addict(Darvon and Viagra)

84. another name - August 31, 2010

Thanks Whale rider and Yes…

“That same crazy-making behavior of setting impossible conditions exists in the FOF, especially for women.”

Yes and for men too. He goes to the extreme, and when men do not give RB what RB wants he will excluded men and women, slowly or fast depending on what is refused.

AAAAAAAGh

I feel sorry for the lack of vision of student and the delusional situation students are kept in.

85. silentpurr - September 1, 2010

Shame and the expanded scope of it’s reach is full play in the Fellowship.
I think because the 4th way was abducted and forced down Robert’s twisted path, shame became every FOF woman’s companion.

86. another name - September 1, 2010

Silent pur

Yes and no. Shame has walked my path for a while as I felt compromised by supporting a group that proclaimed different ideals compared to the hidden actions of Robert Burton and his followers (knowingly and unknowingly). Yes there was shame and yet by speaking it out and not denying it and allowing it to be what it was, a lot of my shame has made room for humbleness and compassion (after the angry dissipated).

Ho Oponopono to all of you

87. nige - September 1, 2010

A very long day in the Academy of Precious Metal Arts of both failure and success, experimentation and discussion of the psychology of teaching and learning. First Rosemary, who managed to solder a perfect joint of bezel to base, despite my misapprehending that she had not achieved it. As the folks from Yorkshire would have said, she was ‘reet chuffed’. Then Joanne, the careful Martial (Celtic Warrior Princess, as I call her) working on my Shaman Ring and not managing to set the opposed bar-cut garnet to her satisfaction. She tries so damn hard and has such high standards to the finishing of her jewellery. towards the end of her lesson, she had to work on other things and leave the ring along. Jenny, the Saturn-Mars, who likes to be left alone with her projects and only, ever so slightly, needs to ask for help. Catherine, the Irish Martial, who has set high project expectations for herself from the very outset of her learning. Things going wrong and things going well and the synchronicity of understanding because of her motor-function awareness. Zoe was playful in her dead-center Venusian way. An abstract project and needing little help. Fae experimented with copper coloration and her childlike Lunar-Venusian played with the chemicals. Now Graham is the test of a teacher teaching a teacher. He is a Secondary Level Head of science in his new school and excels in surface textures and techniques of working metal. He gives me a ride into Exeter (my home town) and we talk about the need for awareness of psychological approaches in teaching. God! Have I had a rambunctious day!

88. nige - September 1, 2010

You know what? At this stage in the game, I am so fucking pissed off at Burton’s being allowed to get away with feeding his followers ‘absolute shite’. As most people know, he ‘tickles folks’ ears’ (Bible), feels no pain (Darvon or not), works his boys into sexual frenzy with Viagra and orgiastic games AND GETS PEOPLE TO PAY FOR ALL THIS. More fools them and more evil Burton – let him die soon and face his cosmic consequences…..Nigel.

89. nige - September 2, 2010

James Blunt – ‘You’re Beautiful’

My life is brilliant.
My love is pure.
I saw an angel.
Of that I’m sure.
She smiled at me on the subway.
She was with another man.
But I won’t lose no sleep on that,
‘Cause I’ve got a plan.

You’re beautiful. You’re beautiful.
You’re beautiful, it’s true.
I saw your face in a crowded place,
And I don’t know what to do,
‘Cause I’ll never be with you.

Yeah, she caught my eye,
As we walked on by.
She could see from my face that I was,
Fucking high,
And I don’t think that I’ll see her again,
But we shared a moment that will last till the end.

You’re beautiful. You’re beautiful.
You’re beautiful, it’s true.
I saw your face in a crowded place,
And I don’t know what to do,
‘Cause I’ll never be with you.
You’re beautiful. You’re beautiful.
You’re beautiful, it’s true.
There must be an angel with a smile on her face,
When she thought up that I should be with you.
But it’s time to face the truth,
I will never be with you.

90. silentpurr - September 2, 2010

The women of the Fellowship suffer deeply but unnecessarily. As long as they are compelled to accept the belief that a man could possibly understand what it is to be a woman better than she does herself, there will be constant inner conflict.
Remember what took one to the Fellowship was the desire to understand.oneself.
How can one understand oneself by placing a template of impossibility over yourself? A template of ‘womanliness’ crafted by an unstable man pretending to be a Goddess?

91. nige - September 3, 2010

‘How We Love’ – Beth Nielsen Chapman

Life has taught me this
Everyday is new
And if anything is true
All that matters when we’re through
Is how we love

Faced with what we lack
Some things fall apart
From the ashes, will dream start
All that matters to the heart is how we love

How we love, How we love
From the smallest act of kindness
In a world that smart and hurt

In spite of our mistakes, chances come again
If we lose or if we win
All that matter in the end is how we love

How we love
How we love
I will not forget your kindness when I needed it so much

Some times we forget trying to be so strong
In this world of right and wrong
All that matters when we’ve gone
All that mattered all along
All we have carries on
Is how we love

92. McMikey - September 3, 2010

How fitting: Part 96!
Now that things are settling down and everybody has had an opportunity to say what they will, is it time for a group hug?

93. silentpurr - September 3, 2010

In the Fellowship, the ‘lady’ is cultivated, but the ‘woman’ is marginalized….made invisible.

94. nige - September 3, 2010

93 silentpurr

I think your post and those similar about womanhood are important. I have stated before that, in my little teaching establishment, there are 21 women students and 5 males. I have also stated before and in my little booklet ‘The Years Between’ it has always been important, in times when I have to deal with the Mental Health Authorities, to have women to see me through Crisis Times. I think anyone with an open mind can see that women are closer to the creative process than men.

However, how can anyone expect, in a cult that is run by a psychopathic homosexual, that anything other than misogyny and the subordination of women to the features of Robert Burton through his enablers, is going to occur. Two alternatives – a woman either puts up with this crap in the FOF or leaves (spouse or no spouse). Personally, I can see no navigating a middle ground.

I hope this topic can be opened up on the blog and discussed more deeply…..Nigel.

95. nige - September 3, 2010

Womanhood

She must be honest, both in thought and deed,
Of generous impulse, and above all greed;
Not seeking praise, or place, or power, or pelf,
But life’s best blessings for her higher self,
Which means the best for all.
She must have faith,
To make good friends of Trouble, Pain, and Death,
And understand their message.
She should be
As redolent with tender sympathy
As a rose is with fragrance.
Cheerfulness
Should be her mantle, even though her dress
May be of Sorrow’s weaving.
On her face
A loyal nature leaves its seal of grace,
And chastity is in her atmosphere.
Not that chill chastity which seems austere
(Like untrod snow-peaks, lovely to behold
Till once attained – then barren, loveless, cold):
But the white flame that feeds upon the soul
And lights the pathway to a peaceful goal.
A sense of humour, and a touch of mirth,
To brighten up the shadowy spots of earth;
And pride that passes evil – choosing good.
All these unite in perfect womanhood.

Ella Wheeler Wilcox

96. Josiane - September 3, 2010

silentpurr, about women:
It is still a surprise to me that women would be willing to be in a cult where the leader tells them they cannot awaken in this lifetime because the male body is better equipped for the process of awakening, or whatever way he used to phrase it. And yet, we stayed, probably because we thought–at least I did–that we were not worse off than the majority of the male students, since only seven (oops, six) would actually awaken in this lifetime. And there was always the possibility that one would be born a man in the next lifetime–but only if one stayed in the school.

I guess all of Robert’s women (LT, AF, KJ,etc.) are really hoping they are on their eighth lifetime; next time they will get it right. This wasted life is probably payment for the great gift awaiting in another life.

I spent most of my FoF years in Europe so that wasn’t so bad. When I moved to Apollo on 1996, however, I started noticing a change in me: I started hating myself for being a woman, thinking how many more opportunities there would be to be close to the Teacher if I had been born in a man’s body (didn’t know about the sordid affairs at the Galleria at the time). Besides, I had joined FoF because I wanted to awaken.

Nowadays I feel that being a woman is a wonderful thing. I love being a woman and I love the company of other women.

97. Opus 111 - September 4, 2010

Hey McMikey

Whatever you may think of the exchanges taking place here, it is still better than the deception ruling the FOF.

By the way, in which world does FOF group sex for the pleasure of his leader, fit in? Is there even a number for that one?

98. X-ray - September 4, 2010

92. McMikey – September 3, 2010

‘How fitting: Part 96!
Now that things are settling down and everybody has had an opportunity to say what they will, is it time for a group hug?’

I prefer group hug over a group fuck.

99. Ill Never Tell - September 4, 2010

97. Opus 111:

‘By the way, in which world does FOF group sex for the pleasure of his leader, fit in? Is there even a number for that one?’

Why world 69, you silly goose.

100. nige - September 4, 2010

On a serious note, it is surprising that a group which extols the ‘noble virtues’ and so should expect appropriate sexual behaviour from its members has an infra-sexual predatory maniac at the core of its leadership…..Nigel.

101. X-ray - September 5, 2010

99. Ill Never Tell – September 4, 2010

97. Opus 111:

Why world 69, you silly goose.’

That’s right, 69 is the real world of the fellowship cult. This is their essence.

102. X-ray - September 5, 2010

And this is what Bob should be saying in the meetings: ‘essence, world 69’, nodding confirmative.

103. nige - September 5, 2010

Walt Whitman – ‘I Sing the Body Electric’

I SING the Body electric;
The armies of those I love engirth me, and I engirth them;
They will not let me off till I go with them, respond to them,
And discorrupt them, and charge them full with the charge of the Soul.

Was it doubted that those who corrupt their own bodies conceal themselves;
And if those who defile the living are as bad as they who defile the dead?
And if the body does not do as much as the Soul?
And if the body were not the Soul, what is the Soul?

104. nige - September 5, 2010

2 ENTRIES FOUND:
defile (transitive verb)
defile (intransitive verb)

Definition of DEFILE

: to make unclean or impure: as

a : to corrupt the purity or perfection of : debase

b : to violate the chastity of : deflower

c : to make physically unclean especially with something unpleasant or contaminating

d : to violate the sanctity of : desecrate e : sully, dishonor

— de·file·ment\-ˈfī(-ə)l-mənt\ noun
— de·fil·er\-ˈfī-lər\ noun

Origin of DEFILE
Middle English, alteration (influenced by filen to defile, from Old English fȳlan) of defoilen to trample, defile, from Anglo-French defoiller, defuler, to trample, from de- + fuller, foller to trample, literally, to full — more at full
First Known Use: 14th century

105. WhaleRider - September 5, 2010

x-ray:
“I prefer group hug over a group fuck.”

…or cluster fuck, as the case may be in the FOF.

~Group hug to all of you!

106. nige - September 5, 2010

Coercive Persuasion and Attitude Change

Coercive persuasion and thought reform are alternate names for programs of social influence capable of producing substantial behavior and attitude change through the use of coercive tactics, persuasion, and/or interpersonal and group-based influence manipulations (Schein 1961; Lifton 1961). Such programs have also been labeled “brainwashing” (Hunter 1951), a term more often used in the media than in scientific literature. However identified, these programs are distinguishable from other elaborate attempts to influence behavior and attitudes, to socialize, and to accomplish social control. Their distinguishing features are their totalistic qualities (Lifton 1961), the types of influence procedures they employ, and the organization of these procedures into three distinctive subphases of the overall process (Schein 1961; Of Schein and Singer 1986). The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are

•(1) the reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual’s sense of self
•to promote compliance,
•(2) the use of an organized peer group,
•(3)applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity, and
•(4) the manipulation of the totality of the person’s social environment to stabilize behavior once modified.
Thought-reform programs have been employed in attempts to control and indoctrinate individuals, societal groups (e.g., intellectuals), and even entire populations. Systems intended to accomplish these goals can vary considerably in their construction. Even the first systems studied under the label “thought reform” ranged from those in which confinement and physical assault were employed (Schein 1956; Lifton 1954; Lifton 1961 pp. 19-85) to applications that were carried out under nonconfined conditions, in which nonphysical coercion substituted for assault (Lifton 1961, pp. 242-273; Schein 1961, pp. 290-298). The individuals to whom these influence programs were applied were in some cases unwilling subjects (prisoner populations) and in other cases volunteers who sought to participate in what they believed might be a career-beneficial, educational experience (Lifton 1981, p. 248).

Significant differences existed between the social environments and the control mechanisms employed in the two types of programs initially studied. Their similarities, however, are of more importance in understanding their ability to influence behavior and beliefs than are their differences. They shared the utilization of coercive persuasion’s key effective-influence mechanisms: a focused attack on the stability of a person’s sense of self; reliance on peer group interaction; the development of interpersonal bonds between targets and their controllers and peers; and an ability to control communication among participants. Edgar Schein captured the essential similarity between the types of programs in his definition of the coercive-persuasion phenomenon. Schein noted that even for prisoners, what happened was a subjection to “unusually intense and prolonged persuasion” that they could not avoid; thus, “they were coerced into allowing themselves to be persuaded” (Schein 1961, p. 18).

107. nige - September 5, 2010

Exploring the CULT in culture:

A CULT is most commonly thought of as a religious or utopian group with a charismatic leader, though not all cult leaders are charismatic. Such groups can do a lot of damage causing anything from the breaking up of families to horrific acts of ritual murder, mass suicide and terrorist acts (Jonestown … Waco … 9/11). Some cult members exhibit obviously bizarre behaviour and wear strange clothes. Yet most cult behaviour is only a slightly more extreme form of the normal cultural behaviour that we are steeped in from childhood — for example, peer group pressure to conform.

Deikman noted that the desires that bring people to cults — including the need to feel secure and protected — are universal human longings (as we would say, human givens). Their effect in our daily lives can be shockingly similar to the effect they have within the most bizarre cults, propelling people to take self destructive paths toward the security they seek, to fail to think realistically, suppress healthy dissent and autonomy, devalue outsiders and accept authoritarianism.

Deikman’s message is an urgent one, because he sees these pervasive patterns throughout society as threats to our freedom. As he says in the preface to his book, “The price of cult behaviour is diminished realism.”

Why people join cults

“Cults form and thrive,” says Deikman, “not because people are crazy, but because they have two kinds of wishes. They want a meaningful life, to serve God or humanity; and they want to be taken care of, to feel protected and secure, to find a home. The first motives may be laudable and constructive, but the latter exert a corrupting effect, enabling cult leaders to elicit behaviour directly opposite to the idealistic vision with which members entered the group.

“Usually, in psychiatry and psychology, the wish to be taken care of (to find a home, a parent) is called dependency and this is a rather damning label when applied to adults. Adults are not supposed to be dependent in that way, relying on another as a child would rely on a mother or father. We are supposed to be autonomous, self-sustaining, with the capacity to go it alone. We do recognise that adults need each other for emotional support, for giving and receiving affection, for validation; that is acceptable and sanctioned. But underlying such mature interdependency is the longing of the child, a yearning that is never completely outgrown. This covert dependency — the wish to have parents and the parallel wish to be loved, admired and sheltered by one’s group — continues throughout life in everyone. These wishes generate a hidden fantasy or dream that can transform a leader into a strong, wise, protective parent and a group into a close, accepting family. Within that dream we feel secure.”

Cults and culture

Cults are a mirror in which we can see, more clearly focused, aspects of the wider culture — the process by which the norms, values, ideas and shared perceptions of a society are passed down from generation to generation. In conforming we become ‘cultured’. There are practical advantages in conforming and certain disadvantages in not doing so. No group or country is one static culture but a special mix of interrelating lesser cultures. The streetwise homeless in Britain today, for example, have a different ‘culture’ from a British farmer, accountant or a nurse. At the same time, however, all British people share in something that is distinctive and different from, say, a South American, African or Middle Eastern culture. In other words, each country’s mix has a distinct ‘flavour’.

How do cults work?

The four factors that Deikman cites as characteristic of cult phenomena are:

• compliance with the group
• dependence on a leader
• avoidance of dissent
• devaluation of outsiders.

108. silentpurr - September 6, 2010

The Fellowship is a Cult of the Virgin. The heterosexual male virgin student.

109. WhaleRider - September 6, 2010

The Trap. (part 2) The Endgame of “man is a machine” and the non-expression of “negative” emotions….the more you try to be different, the more machine-like you become.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1087742888040457650#

Also in part three of this Adam Curtis, BBC series contains an awesome piece on “perception management”.

110. silentpurr - September 8, 2010

The Minotaur like other ‘darker’ figures from Mythology/ collective-consciousness, is an unhappy, unsatisfied, self-loathing individual. He may be jealous of what his intended victims represent to him.
Robert, like other narcissistics ‘see’ their lives being played on a Grand Scale.
Robert’s vision of himself may be that of Apollo while his shadow self acts out The Minotaur.

111. GoldenVeil - September 9, 2010

Apollo? But the real role model for Robert Burton is more sun king
than sun god ~ Louis IV.

112. McMikey - September 9, 2010

All right now!
Which one of you smart-alecks/nay-sayers/alleged victims sent the dead fish wrapped in body armour to the Galleria?

113. nige - September 9, 2010

111 GoldenVeil

I had the same thought today. Burton is no god (or goddess, for that matter) and certainly is no reflection of Apollo, who would be envisaged as pure fission/fusion energy – creative, and unable to be desecrated into carnal, orgiastic, liaisons. No – Burton is a king of his club and ‘Le Roi Soleil’ fits him perfectly – all fashion and pose, just like the time of Louis XIV. I actually think the form of his stupid group will continue after his earthly demise – when he gets his cosmic comeuppance and faces his daemonic role in spiritual realms…..Nigel.

114. The FOFion - September 9, 2010

Nothing Weird or Strange Happens on FOF Compound for One Hour

Breaking news alert:
OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — An entire hour went by earlier today when nothing bizarre, strange, nefarious, secretive, evil, or completely ridiculous took place on the Fellowship of Friends compound here in the Sierra Nevada foothills nestled between the towns of Marysville and Grass Valley.

“We’re not sure what to make of it,” said one observer, “But there’s no indication this is some kind of trend.”

Strange goings-on later continued. One follower was reprimanded when he made the following suggestion which unfortunately was overhead: “Maybe students should express their own thoughts and opinions at meetings, and provide constructive criticism to the Teacher. After all, this is part of observing yourself and the world around you. Seems like that would be healthy!”

That same student was later released from the school by Influence C.

“Not a good thing,” another observer said. “What could be worse than being kicked out of a cult where they don’t want anyone to articulate their dissenting views? What a horrible fate.”

Another student was summarily sent packing and escorted off the property when she said: “You’re saying that Robert is having intimate relations with every one of those guys that he’s walking with in front of the Galleria? Perhaps this is mildly inappropriate? Maybe?”

115. nige - September 9, 2010

114 The FOFion

Don’t worry! As long as they toe the line and feel special that way, nothing disastrous or leading to them being ‘kicked out’ will happen…..Nigel.

116. silentpurr - September 9, 2010

Yes, Golden veil and Nige. But would he, as Louis XIV did on his on his deathbed, follow the Baroque inclination to magnify one’s sins as a demonstration of piety”? I doubt it.
Robert sees/feels himself as a god, completely innocent of absolutely any wrongdoing.

117. nige - September 10, 2010

Test…..Nigel.

118. nige - September 10, 2010

116 silentpurr

Burton is a typical representation of a psychopath/sociopath…..Nigel.

119. nige - September 10, 2010

‘What if God were One of Us’ (lyrics)

If God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?
If you were faced with him
In all his glory
What would you ask if you had just one question?

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that
you would have to believe
in things like heaven and in Jesus and the saints
and all the prophets

Trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
‘cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

Just trying to make his way home
Like a holy rolling stone
Back up to heaven all alone
Just trying to make his way home
Nobody calling on the phone
‘cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

120. nige - September 10, 2010

116 silentpurr

“Robert sees/feels himself as a god, completely innocent of absolutely any wrongdoing.”

It was my thinking this of Burton that was a motivating factor in my suicide attempt of 11 June 1989. I still bear the scars (literally) and the mestatization of my fingertips which remind me never again to put my trust in some ‘spiritual figure’ who has some ‘father element’. In actual fact, whatever spiritual path we tread, the responsibility for our well-being lies with us alone…..Nigel.

“Working through (Durcharbeit), the most important part of any analysis, is essentially an education in the process of assuming a tragic relationship to oneself by accepting the suffering that self-knowledge entails. Rather than seeking a magical solution to depression, one must sustain it as that melancholy that Keats called “the wakeful anguish of the soul.” Becoming responsible for oneself depends on a single circumstance: the concrete and bitter immersion in the particulars of one’s life in a recognition of one’s responsibility as cause. No satanic agency produced one’s condition and no messianic agency will come to blow it away. One must uncover those things in oneself that have shaped the self-lacerating history of one’s heart. There is only one source of inner strength, and the way to it is full acceptance of the suffering that is our deepest attunement to ourselves. Authentic self-analysis is based on the recognition that there is no deliverance from desire and inner conflict.”
(“Bible Says”, page 279)

121. McMikey - September 10, 2010

119. Lyrics
Excellent & nearly perfect, Nige.
Who is the author?

122. nige - September 10, 2010

121 McMikey

Joan Osbourn wrote it and Alise Morrisette sang it in the ‘charts’…..Nigel

123. nige - September 10, 2010

122 nige

As usual, ‘impetuous one’ strikes again. It is Joan Osborne who wrote it and the biography follows…..

“b. 8 July 1962, Anchorage, Kentucky, USA. The 90s rock singer Joan Osborne began her singing career one evening at the Abilene blues bar in New York, USA. Prompted by several drinks, she took the stage at 3 am as a dare and sang Billie Holiday ‘s ‘God Bless The Child’. The resident pianist at the club encouraged her to attend the bar’s regular open-microphone nights. Although a reluctant performer at first, she soon learned to enjoy these opportunities, building a solid reputation in the New York area. The live album Soul Show was released on her own Womanly Hips Records in 1991 and an EP, Blue Million Miles, followed in 1993.

Later that year she became the first signing to Blue Gorilla, a new label set up by Rick Chertoff, senior vice-president of PolyGram Records. However, before the deal was completed, Chertoff invited Osborne to take part in writing workshops in Katonah, New York, alongside a variety of musicians. It was here that the band who appeared on her major label debut formed. Relish featured Rob Hyman (keyboards), Eric Bazilian (guitar, ex- Hooters ), Charlie Quintana (drums; also of Cracker ) and Rainy Orteca (bass). Bazilian wrote the infectious US Top 5 single ‘One Of Us’.

This simple song, which combined Neil Young -style guitar with a plaintive vocal, featured a thought-provoking lyric built around the refrain of ‘what if God was one of us, just a slob like one of us, just a stranger on a bus, trying to make his way home’. Osborne’s own songwriting was helped by a workshop given by Doc Pomus, explaining the rootsy nature of much of her work which owes more to blues and R&B than to 90s rock music. The album also included two songs, ‘Help Me’ and ‘Crazy Baby’, originally included on Soul Show.

Following the success of ‘One Of Us’, Relish received strong reviews from Rolling Stone, the New York Times and the New Yorker, the latter describing Osborne as ‘one of the most distinct voices in rock’. Two television appearances on the Late Show With David Letterman, and national tours, during which she invited pro-life organizations to put their case to her audience, increased her profile throughout 1995. In 1996, ‘One Of Us’ found its way to the UK and was a Top 10 hit.

It is hoped that media attention and radio saturation does not lessen the quality of her work. Both Sheryl Crow and Alanis Morissette received too much adulation too soon, and quickly became part of the establishment. Osborne does not deserve the same fate. While recording the follow-up to Relish, Osborne toured with Lilith Fair and, in 1999, contributed ‘Baby Love’ to the For Love Of The Game soundtrack.”

Hope this clarifies my initial mistakes and mispellings…..Nigel.

124. nige - September 10, 2010

Here is something more familiar for current and ex-FOFfers, which I had wanted to post, whilst on the bus home…..Nigel.

William Shakespeare – Sonnet CXVI

“Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no; it is an ever-fixed mark,
That looks on tempests, and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth’s unknown, although his height be taken.
Love’s not Time’s fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle’s compass come;
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error, and upon me prov’d,
I never writ, nor no man ever lov’d.”

125. nige - September 10, 2010

I am a teacher of sorts,
But neither too material nor spiritual;
Hoping to bring my students
to their fulfilled desires
And beyond.

I have certificates;
But the proof of worth of my aim
Is the learning of every one
Of those in my care.

The phrase goes, in teaching terminology –
DUTY OF CARE.
Let me never descend lower than my calling.

(nhp september 2010)

126. nige - September 10, 2010

“From this hour I ordain myself loos’d of limits and imaginary lines,
Going where I list, my own master total and absolute,
Listening to others, considering well what they say,
Pausing, searching, receiving, contemplating,
Gently, but with undeniable will, divesting myself of the holds that
would hold me.”

Walt Whitman – ‘Song of the Open Road’.

127. ton - September 11, 2010

i don’t know about god being ‘one’ of us….
what if god is ALL of us ?

128. nige - September 12, 2010

This one for the ladies…..

“When God made man, she was only joking” (Anon)

129. GoldenVeil - September 13, 2010

*

http://www.livingpresence.com/

My Dears,

Have you seen the new marketing campaign for the Fellowship of Friends? There is a beautiful slide show, opening with an image of the “Teacher,” the still debonair Robert Burton, standing in the ruins of ancient Egypt, seeming to contemplate the meaning of the hieroglyphs; or maybe simply practicing the art of “being present.”

One of the highlights is a statue of Michelangelo’s David, a life-size replica of the Florentine sculpture cast in a dark stone or metal, installed on the grounds of Apollo. This image is especially appropriate to Robert Burton, not on an iconographical basis, but because of the actual image. After all, he worships at the altar of an assemblage of handsome, nude, young men.

In another image, his grand vizier Girard Haven is seated before a goblet
of blood orange Mimosa, apparently elsewhere, not attending with the the others to the general focus of attention. He looks bored and unhappy. But most of the images show people having the time of their lives, with intermittent quotations appearing now and then, touting the benefits of “wordless presence.”

There is a link to a new Word Press powered blog, appropriately adorned by the “Gold Pot” theme. The blog’s initiation on July 2nd and the red white and blue balloons triumphantly rising around the David, may mark an important anniversary, celebrated by the Fellowship of Friends in July.

I am wondering about the two men having coffee before the statue of Shiva, the artisans leafing the water nymph in gold, and the smiling, mustachioed, blue-eyed older man…does anyone know their identities?

This “Esoteric School” looks very expensive. There is no mention of tuition or extracurricular sexual deviant credits needed to graduate. Oh, sorry ~ my mistake; this school requires its students to remain for life; there is no graduation! Ever. At least according to the “Teacher.” For the students
that live on campus, it is more like a type of voluntary, delusional form
of subservient slavery. In a gilded cage.

*

*

130. brucelevy - September 13, 2010

129. GoldenVeil

Unbelievable. It makes me gag.

131. Opus 111 - September 13, 2010

The two gents having coffee are Do_ald Rich_ond, a FOF lifer, who used to work in the vineyard, then the winery, now seen at the gatehouse. The other is a “sweet” young man from Israel I believe, permanent member of the Goddess’ entourage, residing in the den’s basement. His daytime activities are limited to traveling with the ogress, standing (always) at events, and to bringing water or tea to the Princess when she is performing in front of adoring crowds and needs to refresh that overused throat of hers. That pretty much it for daytime activities. Nighttime, an entire different matter.

The blue-eyed gent is the man who is, in a way, responsible for starting this blog: the incomparable R.b.e.t T.yl.r. He was the one leading the meeting our very own Sheikh attended in London. Another FOF lifer, actor by trade, used as PR resource by the Goddess for those remote Eastern countries with impressionable recruits, male if at all possible.

132. GoldenVeil - September 14, 2010

Thanks, Opus 111

And the artisans; are they known as well?

It is interesting that the one lifelong student, RT, led the introductory
meeting the the founder of this blob, the Sheik, attended.

There are now close to 60 Centers world wide. I think that there were
closer to 80 at one time.

As, I think, P.T. Barnum once said, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”

Amazing, isn’t it?

133. More history needed - September 14, 2010

Artisans?

Left person is is H–n v-n Gl-sb–k and the person to the right is Ud- M-r-gl–,

Very skilled people both around 20 years in the fellowship.

Female member stated to a friend of mine: My husband is close to Robert and all this talk about sex are lies. My husband is so honest. (Russian husband BTW) I went to the blog and what people write, those people are sick.

134. ollie - September 14, 2010

Robert Burton on September 8, 2010:
“About three years ago I was dining in a restaurant in Puebla called Santa Clarita. I looked out the window and saw two camels passing by; they were advertising for a local zoo. Shortly thereafter, I was dining in Santa Clarita, a city just north of Los Angeles. Ken_ Wyg_ was on the way back from San Diego with two camels he was bringing to Apollo, and he stopped by to show them to me. I stepped out of the restaurant and looked at them. Then, last week as we were driving to Los Angeles, near Santa Clarita we saw a car in flames on the side of the road. It was a four-lane highway and Leonid was driving in the fast lane. The Highway Patrol stepped out and stopped all cars from passing, except for us. Leonid drove through – we were the last car. We immediately had the eerie feeling that the Fellowship would escape the Last Judgment… That is why we have the camels – as preparation for the Last Judgment. In forty-three years of working with Influence C, this is one of the strongest omens I have received.”

135. ollie - September 14, 2010

Robert Burton on September 8, 2010:
“I hope I have done everything I can in my passage through life to support and encourage your highest aspirations.”

136. silentpurr - September 14, 2010

That is sooo sad.
meow

137. silentpurr - September 14, 2010

!

138. another name - September 14, 2010

Interesting again that a person like Robert Burton is not touched by a burning car and the people involved. This is so often his energy around his comments, no compassion for people in general. If there is a God and Robert Burton is his prophet then all hope is gone and humanity is there to be lunched on. And more then 1400 people are still believing this nonsense and in one way support this????

I better go for a walk and enjoy the gentle sun.

hono ponopono

139. Panorea - September 14, 2010

…We immediately had the eerie feeling that the Fellowship would escape the Last Judgment… That is why we have the camels – as preparation for the Last Judgment. In forty-three years of working with Influence C, this is one of the strongest omens I have received…

THIS IS SO INSANE! it is nothing more than eerie…nonsense and more nonsense so that he can cash more of your monies…promises of escaping the Last Judgment. The Fellowship is such a jail. If you joined thinking of some kind of personal development or “awakening” how can a passage like this assist with all that? One is stuck in an insane circle of so-called friends and does not question or even simply think. How about all the other omens he received? All failed, all pretentious predictions did not actually happen. Why do you follow a shadow? What is it actually you miss in your life? Because that guy and no other guy will ever give it to you.

140. nige - September 14, 2010

139 Panorea

Every day is a judgement – how have I acted? Have I given compassion? Have I offered understanding to those I teach? Have I felt part of humanity? Always questioning, always not taking for granted the sheer wonder of living, and living A FULL LIFE…..Nigel.

(God! Burton is such a shallow piece of shit) .n.

141. nige - September 14, 2010

135 Ollie

Highest aspirations – having your cock sucked by Burton…..Nigel.

142. another name - September 14, 2010

Everything that irritates us about others can lead to an understanding of ourselves.

Carl Jung

143. X-ray - September 15, 2010

139. Panorea – September 14, 2010

‘…We immediately had the eerie feeling that the Fellowship would escape the Last Judgment… That is why we have the camels – as preparation for the Last Judgment. In forty-three years of working with Influence C, this is one of the strongest omens I have received…’

For a moment I thought that was a joke, then I realize that wasn’t.

144. X-ray - September 15, 2010

135. ollie – September 14, 2010

Robert Burton on September 8, 2010:
“I hope I have done everything I can in my passage through life to support and encourage your highest aspirations.”

Sure you have, Mr. Viagra pill.

145. X-ray - September 15, 2010

134. ollie – September 14, 2010

Robert Burton on September 8, 2010:
‘I was dining in Santa Clarita, a city just north of Los Angeles.’

Stop drinking Bob, you are hallucinating.

146. X-ray - September 15, 2010

133. More history needed – September 14, 2010

‘Female member stated to a friend of mine: My husband is close to Robert and all this talk about sex are lies. My husband is so honest. (Russian husband BTW) I went to the blog and what people write, those people are sick.’

You have no idea what your husband is doing.

147. leonhardon - September 15, 2010

#135

Robert Burton on September 8, 2010:
“I hope I have done everything I can in my passage through life to support and encourage your highest aspirations.”

First hand reports would suggest that everything humanly imaginable has been and continues to be done in his, “passage” several times a week.

148. leonhardon - September 15, 2010

“About three years ago I was dining in a restaurant in Puebla called Santa Clarita. I looked out the window and saw two camels passing by; and immediately asked Leonid to order me two more Margaritas. Shortly thereafter, I was dining in Santa Clarita, near Los Angeles and saw Ken_ Wyg_ walk by with two more camels he was bringing to Apollo. I stepped out of the restaurant and looked at them and realized they weren’t there. Then, last week as we were driving to Los Angeles, near Santa Clarita we saw a camel in flames on the side of the road. It was a four-lane highway and Leonid was driving in the fast lane. The Highway Patrol stepped out and stopped all cars from passing, except for us. Leonid drove through – we were the last camel. We immediately had the eerie feeling that the Fellowship would escape the Last Judgment…on Camels. That is why we have the camels – as preparation for the Last Judgment and because I love being humped. In forty-three years of working with Influence C, this is one of the strongest omens I have received and definitely the strongest Margaritas.”

149. another name - September 15, 2010

leonhardon

LOL, LOL,LOL

Thanks.

150. silentpurr - September 15, 2010

More history needed, give it time. Robert will eventually bring out the worst in your husband. And by this I mean a wearing away of ‘good conscience’. It’s a subtle process and RB is a ‘master’ at his trade. And because Robert works with ‘no stops’ he is capable of almost anything, like a wildfire.

151. Renald - September 16, 2010

leonhardon…great to see you back !

152. McMikey - September 16, 2010

Dear Ms. Wife of Russian:
Truth or Dirty Lie?
a) Robert Burton is a conscious being, a veritable goddess-in-a-man’s-body, a Man No. 7.
b) Robert Burton is a despicable old man, a vainglorious pervert who enjoys scatological turn-ons.
-OR-
c) I prefer not to discuss and condemn those who do.

153. WhaleRider - September 17, 2010

Cult Leader Arouses Followers

Organ House, (Hubba County)- In order to wake up his followers out of the deep, deep slumber in which they are unable to find themselves, Robert E. Burton, leader of the quasi-religious doomsday corporation headquartered in the nether regions of California, and who claims to “be a female gang-banger in a male body”, has pointed his followers in yet another circular direction…instead of just “being present” or “living presence”, now the key to heaven is…speaking presence.

No longer will his cult offer his simple, wordless answer to life’s most complex problems: “shut up and pay.”

Instead of “the highest achievement is to achieve presence without words”, now the highest achievement is to achieve presence while actually speaking them.

To support and encourage Burton’s basest aspirations, the cult plans to launch a new website early next year entitled, dubdubdub(dot)speaking-of-presents.org, taken from one of Burton’s most over-told jokes, “Speaking of presents, dear, how about sending me that new young guy who joined at your center.”

Reportedly this time all followers posing for the new website’s photos are also required to both wear eerie blue contact lenses without having to keep their mouths shut by pinning their lips together using their finger, and look only at the left hand side of the camera.

Since Mr Haven is always preoccupied and unavailable, apparently the photo of him will remain in the new website, but the woman on the far left covering her mouth to keep from vomiting has been edited out and everyone’s eyes have been photo-shopped blue.

“I know I’ve said a lot of stupid things about the future over the years”, admitted Burton, alluding to his string of numerous failed prophecies, “but that was only because of my low level of being back then. I’m way beyond that. I’m a man number 6.66 now. We must not speak about the future or the past anymore, only the present, and that means only speaking the truth from now on.”

Apparently when asked the truth about the extent of his behind the scenes activities with his followers and the hidden bank accounts, Burton just smiled and remained silent, unable to speak, adding to the cognitive dissonance of all who are near and queer to him.

According to another inside source, young, tasty male “wordless presents” so incredibly lucky enough to be drawn into an uneven sexual relationship with the aging gay cult leader are now even encouraged to speak while Burton is performing wordless fellatio upon them. Approved phases (in English only) are said to be: “Thank you so much”, “wow, that felt awesome,” and “you are really good at that.”

154. nige - September 17, 2010

to WhaleRider especially, but also all others…..

I am becoming more convinced that Burton sincerely believes himself to be a being above normal humanity and is not actually bullshitting his way through the FOF and beyond, in the hope that his facade will not become ‘blasted out of the water’. I tend to go along with Ames Gilbert’s theory that Burton may have started the FOF with some sort of conscious direction (all 44 angelic beings) but that it has been removed from him and is now in common circulation in humanity, as though there were some sort of set-up coming somewhere along the line where he will be exposed in his full stupidity and insanity…..Nigel.

155. GoldenVeil - September 17, 2010

The Fellowship of Friends, Living Presence cult’s website gives an elegant impression of an “esoteric School” that supposedly “provides a place for aspiring souls to live and work together in an atmosphere of beauty and effort, under the guidance of a conscious teacher.”

It is experienced by some as a place where by pledging and indeed paying each month, 10% of your income AND numerous additional fees, one can learn methods of “being present,” “working on oneself,” “non-identification,” and how to differentiate between “unnecessary suffering” and “necessary suffering” along with fellow seekers who agree to dress up, cultivate an interest in high culture, and if they are able to afford it, enjoy the fun of traveling from center to center to meet other aspirants from all over the world.

Some of the downsides (there are many): impoverishment and dependence on an organization that will rule your life, and debt from fulfilling continuous financial demands made by the cult leader’s subordinates, his “inner circle.”
Bit by bit the new members begin to take part in a manipulative environment, an almost mass hypnosis, and agree to a twisted world view that includes extreme self criticism and judgement of oneself and others, the weakening and even breaking of ties to friends and family outside the cult, and in the case of young, handsome men, married or unmarried, heterosexual or homosexual, the recruitment to a harem of sexual partners surrounding the elderly cult leader.

Take your aspirations to wake up elsewhere. The post number 153 reads like a joke, in fact, is a joke, but what it says is really no joke. It is all true.

156. nige - September 17, 2010

Wikipedia – Psychology of Self…..

“The psychology of self is the study of either the cognitive and affective representation of one’s identity or the subject of experience. The earliest formulation of the self in modern psychology from the distinction between the self as I, the subjective knower, and the self as Me, the object that is known.[1] Current views of the self in psychology position the self as playing an integral part in human motivation, cognition, affect, and social identity.[2] Self following from John Locke has been seen as a product of episodic memory[3] but research upon those with amnesia find they have a coherent sense of self based upon preserved conceptual autobiographical knowledge.[4] It may be the case that we can now usefully attempt to ground experience of self in a neural process with cognitive consequences, which will give us insight into the elements of which the complex multiply situated selves of modern identity are composed.”

157. nige - September 17, 2010

Wikipedia – The Philosophy of Self…..

“The philosophy of self is the defining of the essential qualities that make a person distinct from all others. There have been a number of different approaches to defining these qualities. The self is the idea of a unified being which is the source of consciousness. Moreover, this self is the agent responsible for the thoughts and actions of an individual to which they are ascribed. It is a substance, which therefore endures through time; thus, the thoughts and actions at different moments of time may pertain to the same self. As the notion of subject, the “self” has been harshly criticized by Nietzsche at the end of the 19th century, on behalf of what Gilles Deleuze would call a “becoming-other”.”

158. nige - September 17, 2010

Galef Strawson – The Self…..

*I know that I exist; the question is, what is this ‘I’ that I know? (Descartes 1641)
*The soul, so far as we can conceive it, is nothing but a system or train of different perceptions. (Hume 1739)
*What was I before I came to self-consciousness? . . . I did not exist at all, for I was not an I. The I exists only insofar as it is conscious of itself. . . . The self posits itself, and by virtue of this mere self-assertion it exists. (Fichte 1794–5)
*The ‘Self’ . . . , when carefully examined, is found to consist mainly of . . . peculiar motions in the head or between the head and throat. (James 1890)
*The ego continuously constitutes itself as existing. (Husserl 1929)
*Any fixed categorization of the Self is a big goof. (Ginsberg 1963)
*The self which is reflexively referred to is synthesized in that very act of reflexive self-reference. (Nozick 1981)
*The self . . . is a mythical entity. . . . It is a philosophical muddle to allow the space which differentiates ‘my self’ from ‘myself’ to generate the illusion of a mysterious entity distinct from . . . the human being. (Kenny 1988)
*A self . . . is . . . an abstraction . . . , [a] Center of Narrative Gravity. (Dennett 1991)
*My body is an object all right, but my self jolly well is not! (Farrell 1996)

159. nige - September 17, 2010

Copied and pasted from Google Search…..

Danger of Cults is Growing
El peligro de Cultos está Creciendo
[September 18, 1998]

As individuals and societies, we do not have a strong understanding of the phenomenon of cults, nor of the dangers cults pose. Thus, preventative action is rarely undertaken by appropriate establishments, such as our homes, cultural institutions, and governments. Lack of understanding or action persists despite highly publicized cult violence over the last four years, somber statistics of the cult problem, and the upcoming millennium which is predicted to spark more catastrophes. The following overview is provided to alert people to the growing danger of cults worldwide.

Recent Cult Tragedies in the News

1994. More than 60 members of Europe’s Solar Temple cult were induced to mass suicide in France and Switzerland.

1995. Japan’s Aum Shin Rikyo cult released sarin nerve gas in Tokyo subway killing ten and injuring thousands. Only recently in June 1998, testimonies in recent trials of Aum Shin Rikyo members revealed that for years prior to the 1995 attack, the group released lethal germ warfare in Japan, targeting the Japanese Legislature, the Imperial Palace, and the US military base at Yokosuka. The poisons were not detected at the times of their releases, and apparently caused no deaths. The attacks were intended to spark the apocalypse Aum Shin Rikyo postulates is coming. Meanwhile, about 200 current members met for a fundraising conference in late April, 1998, paying up to $1,500 each to attend.

1997. 39 members of the Heaven’s Gate cult including leader Marshall Applewhite ingested a combination of vodka and drugs at Applewhite’s instruction, resulting in what the mother of victim called “one suicide and 38 murders.” Members were convinced that the only way to survive Earth’s being “recycled” in the year 2000 was to be picked up by a UFO flying in the wake of the Hale-Bopp comet.

1997. Teenage members of a Vampire cult murdered the parents of one of its members. Self-proclaimed lead vampire received the death sentence.

1998. Scientology has faced allegations of member suicides, deaths, and psychotic breaks; when Germany refused to recognize Scientology as a bona fide religious organization, contending the cult is a threat to democracy, the United States accused Germany of “intolerance” and caused international diplomatic tensions.

Somber Statistics
While recent cult tragedies have received a great deal of media coverage, many facts regarding cults are rarely divulged to the general public.

Of the 912 People’s Temple members who died in Jonestown, Guyana in 1978, 276 were children, and of more than 80 who died at Waco, Texas in 1993, 25 were children.

An estimated 5,000 economic, political, and religious groups operate in the United States alone at any given time, with 2.5 million members. Over the last ten years, cults have used tactics of coercive mind control to negatively impact an estimated 20 million victims in the last ten years. Worldwide figures are even greater. [Cult expert Dr. Margaret Singer , Cults in Our Midst].

The cult problem is so prevalent, the chances of a family member joining a cult are greater than a family member catching chicken pox, four times greater than contracting AIDS, 90 times greater than contracting measles, and 45,000 times greater than contracting polio. [Dr. Paul Martin, cult expert and director of Wellspring Retreat & Resource Center, Ohio, USA].

25% of the millions of cult members worldwide “will suffer enduring, irreversible harm that will affect their ability to function adequately in emotional, social, family, and occupational domains,” according to Dr. Martin. For every person who becomes a cult member, many more are impacted; parents, children, other family, and friends suffer personal and often economic loss.

Entire societies, numbed by coercive psychological influence, are more likely to allow large-scale tragedies. Perhaps the most devastating example is the Holocaust. Cult mind control is totalitarian, and as such is anathema to democracy. Democracy is founded on the principle that humanity is rational; for democracy to work, people must be capable of using their critical faculties. Mind control works by bypassing rationality and eliminating free will. Without free will, all other basic human freedoms, such as freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, become utterly meaningless. Eventually if left unchecked, mind control would destroy all basic human freedoms and ruin democracy.

According to Dr. Martin, “Compared to other social or medical problems, the havoc created by destructive cultism is the most understudied, neglected, and ignored mental health and social problem in the world… If the symptoms exhibited in former cult members were attributed to a virus, it would be considered a worldwide epidemic.”

Despite the human and societal damage caused by cults, few organizations exist to help prevent or lessen the damage. Until very recently, governments worldwide have not created systematic programs to respond to the problem. The work has been done by non-profit organizations and by people working on individual bases, studying the cult phenomenon, counseling cult members and ex-members, prosecuting those guilty of cult-related crimes and abuses, and educating others on the dangers of cults. The cult problem is growing quickly and is expected to accelerate as the millennium approaches.

Fortunately, for all its destructiveness, mind control can be diffused rather easily. Education is vital in helping cult members leave the destructive organizations they feel tied to. According to Dr. Singer, 90% of cult members, given the opportunity to take a few days away from the group to be given full information, consequently leave the destructive organization.

In recent months, other government organizations have also begun plans to address the cult problem. The European Parliament recently proposed solutions to the cult problem which focus on education and prevention. The United Nations Commission on Human Rights brought a Special Rapporteur to the United States in January to discuss dangers posed by cults. In April, the Belgian Parliament approved the establishment of a public Information and Advice Center on Harmful Cults. The center’s purpose is to study cults, provide information and advice to the public, and set up a study center accessible by the general population.

FACTNet, as a nonprofit provider of solutions to cult and mind control problems, is extremely pleased that governments are taking initiative to actively address the cult problem, but is concerned that many people are still uninformed about the harms cults are capable are doing to their families and our societies. Please forward this notice to anyone you think might benefit from the information.

For information on mind control and cults, see http://www.factnet.org

This editorial opinion provided by FACTNet, Inc. FACTNet is a nonprofit Internet library dedicated to protecting freedom of mind by reducing harms caused by destructive cults and mind control. FACTNet’s web page, which is located at http://www.factnet.org and has received over 2,000,000 hits since January 1997, is now equipped with a unique web crawler-based search engine capable of simultaneously searching every word on most Internet sites on cults and mind control with the click of the search button. For information on cult-related issues, it is no longer necessary to waste time tediously visiting hundreds of individual web sites. If you would like to subscribe to our free FACTNews newsletter please go to http://lists.factnet.org/mailman/listinfo/factnet-news ~ Appropriate re-distribution and re-posting of this document is appreciated.

Because only You have the right to control Your Mind.

160. Ill Never Tell - September 18, 2010

129. GoldenVeil – September 13, 2010:

‘One of the highlights is a statue of Michelangelo’s David, a life-size replica of the Florentine sculpture cast in a dark stone or metal, installed on the grounds of Apollo. This image is especially appropriate to Robert Burton, not on an iconographical basis, but because of the actual image. After all, he worships at the altar of an assemblage of handsome, nude, young men.’

Statue of David at a bizarre scene with red, white, blue and yellow sperms swimming in the sky. [Reason for ‘David’: someone likes to look at large penises.]

161. Ill Never Tell - September 18, 2010

129. GoldenVeil – September 13, 2010:

‘In another image, his grand vizier Girard Haven is seated before a goblet of blood orange Mimosa, apparently elsewhere, not attending with the the others to the general focus of attention. He looks bored and unhappy. But most of the images show people having the time of their lives. . .’

Anal ysis Paralysis or Satyriasis Paralysis

162. Ill Never Tell - September 18, 2010

132. GoldenVeil – September 14, 2010:

‘As, I think, P.T. Barnum once said, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”’

REB: ‘There is a suckee born every minute.’

134. ollie – September 14, 2010:

‘That is why we have the camels – as preparation for the Last Judgment.’

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24 KJV

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Mark 10:25 KJV

For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Luke 18:25 KJV

153. WhaleRider – September 17, 2010:

‘I’m way beyond that. I’m a man number 6.66 now.’

Got that wrong. He’s a man number 6.9.

163. brucelevy - September 18, 2010

161. Ill Never Tell

I suspect the person on the left is whispering to a person off camera “Can you believe these fucking people? Get me the hell out of here.”

164. nige - September 18, 2010

6pm, Exeter, England…..

I have the Kenneth Branagh version of ‘Henry V’ playing on my DVD whilst writing this post. Is not the play about earnest responsibility as a human passes to the level of Number Five? How can Burton’s inanity and playing around be any where near this or even Gira-d H-ven, with his drivelling formatoriness and cow-towing to Burton without any character of his own, be an inheritor of any sort of Higher Level? There is the need, in rising to a higher level of being, for a great deal of solitude and working alone…..no need for explaining oneself as Burton does to his followers or H-ven does to his fellow enablers…..a great distance between rhino shit and Shakespeare…..Nigel.

165. ton - September 18, 2010

163 bruce
an appropriate soundtrack for this farce is the old eagles tune… i heard blowjob bob has mirrors on her bedroom ceiling:

Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face
They livin’ it up at the Hotel California
What a nice surprise (what a nice surprise)
Bring your alibis

Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said ‘We are all just prisoners here, of our own device’
And in the master’s chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can’t kill the beast

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
‘Relax,’ said the night man,
‘We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!’

166. silentpurr - September 18, 2010

The photo was selected For the FOF site because Girard can be seen by all to be exercising his ‘infant will’. His resisting of Robert’s call or whatever is drawing the attention, demonstrates his ‘control’ over lower centers. On this occasion Girald must appear independent, unique and awake.
Girald’s thought bubble = ({zzz!)!

167. Wouldnt You Like To Know - September 19, 2010

166. silentpurr – September 18, 2010

‘The photo was selected For the FOF site because Girard can be seen by all to be exercising his ‘infant will’. His resisting of Robert’s call or whatever is drawing the attention, demonstrates his ‘control’ over lower centers. On this occasion Girald must appear independent, unique and awake.
Girald’s thought bubble = ({zzz!)!’

Acting like you are ”control’ over lower centers’ and doing something that is different than the crowd, is just as mechanical and lower centered as the crowd action is, possibly more so. It possibly indicates a penchant for anal retentive behavior and demonstrates that you have something to prove or show – like have the appearance of being awake. (Which is not necessarily being awake.) Now, to act like any ordinary person might act and, at the same time, fully remember yourself and be cognizant that you are as present as circumstances will allow, that might be less mechanical and you would know for your self if you were more or less awake in the moment.

In Shakespeare’s play Hamlet, Hamlet’s mother, the queen, asks Hamlet why he still mourns his father’s death when all else have moved on. Here is the dialog:

‘Queen: . . . Thou know’st ’tis common. All that lives must die, Passing through nature to eternity.

Hamlet: Ay, madam, it is common.

Queen: If it be, Why seems it so particular with thee?

Hamlet.
Seems, madam, Nay, it is. I know not ‘seems.’
‘Tis not alone my inky cloak, good mother,
Nor customary suits of solemn black,
Nor windy suspiration of forc’d breath,
No, nor the fruitful river in the eye,
Nor the dejected havior of the visage,
Together with all forms, moods, shapes of grief,
That can denote me truly: these indeed seem,
For they are actions that a man might play:
But I have that within which passeth show;
These but the trappings and the suits of woe.’

[Bold emphasis is by me.]

Appearances really do not matter.
(Remember?: ‘consciousness is not functions.’)
Appearances:
This is what the Fellowship of Friends is so good at: acting like one is different and, therefore, awake. The question is: Can you be inconspicuously awake and, therefore, a different being?

168. nige - September 19, 2010

167 WYLTK

I have pondered this question, ever since joining the FOF, leaving and beyond. Apart form the obvious answer that probably all ex-members have come to, that the FOF is all ‘pose and luxury’, there were so many allusions to the fact that the FOF is the only place where connection with higher centers can be made and, indeed, that the beauty it offers and being present to it, is the sole path to consciousness. As we know, ANY CULT WILL TELL YOU IT IS THE ONLY PATH TO THE ‘HIGHER’ SELF. There are many moments of memory that I have that had nothing to do with being a member of the FOF, and I am sure others do too…..Nigel.

169. Ollie - September 19, 2010

Meet Robert Burton:


170. silentpurr - September 20, 2010

We all can empathize with Girard. He probably didn’t select the photo.We can see that he is doing his best with the “high state of confusion”. He might even see himself as’playing a role’, but always the supportive role. We can only speculate.
But should he awaken to the ‘truth’, he would need to immediately turn over that damn table and ‘graduate’!

171. fofblogmoderator - September 20, 2010

169 is new

172. angleman - September 20, 2010

Girard always played like an innocent deer caught in the headlights, but he is very much complicit with all that goes on. After all it’s his job, what else can he do?

173. angleman - September 21, 2010

The picture of Robert under the 44 giving us the finger is just about right. Incidentally the number 4 on the keyboard is also the $ symbol.

So That picture is very intentional and Robert wanted it released, simply because Robert is too sly to do anything less. He is giving us all the finger saying implying that the angels are behind him like he is the coach of an angel football team.(How bizarrely arrogant) If this doesn’t show the real face behind Robert Burton I don’t know what is. Also it is his queen of hearts that is giving the us the finger. So there goes his king of heats act.

174. brucelevy - September 22, 2010
175. X-ray - September 22, 2010

169. Ollie – September 19, 2010

These are actually the most truthful picture of Burton I have ever seen. This is who he really is, pretty much unmasked.

176. X-ray - September 22, 2010

And the picture with the finger is actually for us, ex-members.

177. X-ray - September 22, 2010

174. brucelevy – September 22, 2010

So typical, identical, malevolent and dirty.
Burton has to be taken to court. He needs be exposed to the public.

178. nige - September 22, 2010

174 X-ray

“It must be thought on” (Henry V)

179. X-ray - September 22, 2010

”It must be thought on and acted upon” (X-ray the 1st)

180. Rudy - September 22, 2010

173. angleman – September 21, 2010

So That picture is very intentional and Robert wanted it released, simply because Robert is too sly to do anything less.

An interesting question came up. If it is true that RB released this picture intentionally (which could as much be true as untrue because there are many pics of Robert circulating and I can’t believe they were all “released” by RB)maybe we should not assist him by helping it spread…

181. dick moron - September 22, 2010

169. Ollie

Burton has the look of imminent death in his eyes and on his face in those photos. It won’t be long before he’s gone for good and the universe will yawn and not notice at all. Good riddance.

182. GoldenVeil - September 22, 2010

Have you ever been at a talk and the lecturer pointed at the blackboard with the middle finger? I wonder, did they do it completely “subconsciously?”

Robert Burton must certainly be “flipping us off” with intention.

183. nige - September 22, 2010

179 X-ray

I wonder what has happened to things like the petition? Why have no investigations been launched by the appropriate authorities regarding things like illegal money workings, fake visas, illegal marriages etc. Although it may be difficult to bring a law-suit to the FOF and Burton in particular, why can we not ‘rattle his cage’ with press articles or other publications?…..Nigel.

184. who is who - September 22, 2010

What a selfless masturbation is going on here for so many years ???
I also would like to be a former member for ever (-;) at least as long as i live ?????
could anyone help me ?

185. McMikey - September 22, 2010

169/tinypic/flip-off
Ho, Ho, Ho.
Yes Robert, we know where your goat is tied and what’s in the closet and who’s buried where.
Thank you for acknowledging our efforts.
At least you’ll be remembered.
Bye

186. Sharon McKibbin - September 22, 2010

Um – I see two fingers in that picture, the index and the middle. He does certainly look ill.

187. silentpurr - September 22, 2010

To the casual viewer, that is, someone for whom the #44 is of no significance, Robert looks like a rich old dude whose suddenly struck-it-rich and is giving the world the finger. But to those who know….. we can see that he is actually referring to the #44/the angels who have provided him this lovely atmosphere. He points with his middle finger to remind the photographer that shopping is sexy and to be prepared for fun later.

188. WhaleRider - September 22, 2010

******FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE******

To: All and Everyone, Except Them
From: FOF Spin Octave
Re: Recent Blog Photos
Date: Happening To This Day

Recently, three unedited, unapproved photos of our bedeviled leader, Robert Burton, have appeared on that evil propaganda tool of the lower self known as the blog (see post #169) and have been misinterpreted by the one, or two, or maybe three of the lowly ex-humans who still regularly post there.

Taken individually, these photos can be suggestive of an image unbecoming of our great leader, as one of these photos displays our great leader showing someone not present (or in the photo) his middle finger, apparently oblivious to the fact that he is also standing right under his personal savior, $$ (oops, sorry, I meant the number 44, my caps lock was on).

Of course our great leader was conscious of standing under the number 44, silly dears! That wasn’t added in later with Photoshop, you can trust us! Burton doesn’t want to fuck you. At least not right away.

Of great concern is that some person’s creative lower self could just edit the number above him right out of that photo and leave our great leader just standing there flipping us all off in true form, without the context of divine magical thinking. And that would be very, very bad.

But these three revealing photos, taken together by those incredibly lucky enough to be reading this, are in fact of special significance to those wishing to learn the three necessary steps in the process of human sex slave cultivation.

Our great leader is simply showing us: it’s as easy as one, two, three.

1) The first step is to direct the attention of your perspective followers toward magical thinking surrounding a number, any number, in this case the number 44 as indicated by Burton in photo #1. To intensify the group-binding effect, add a little “fuck you” to all those who disagree with you and your ridiculous beliefs.

2) The second step is to separate the good-looking followers from the rest and take them on trips to exotic, distant places to see objects of art. This worked especially well for the philandering emperors of China, as Burton illustrates in photo #2. They would take their love interests on long trips to the far reaches of their empire, bedazzling their mark with luxuries, separating their mark from former ties of family and friends, and thus making it easier to seduce them.

3) The third step is to splinter off the most financially vulnerable and pliable good-looking followers clothes shopping while on the trips. Put on light colored tight-fitting pants and make the love interest focus on your bulging crotch by putting your hands in your pockets in a suggestive way and by standing next to a mirror to double the shadowy effect.

They will get the idea…wordlessly.

In photo #3, our leader is intentionally making only three fingers of his left hand seen next to his Viagra induced, stubby little hard-on and shows only the side of himself in the mirror that he wants you to see, also further cultivating the illusion that he is one and a half times the man you could ever be in six lifetimes.

When you have accomplished these three easy steps, you’ll have your best looking followers eating right out of you hand and willing to do so so much more.

189. WhaleRider - September 22, 2010

…just remember to generate in your followers a sufficient amount of expectation for some kind of reward, either now, later, or even in another lifetime, and you will have them to do your bidding.

190. GoldenVeil - September 22, 2010

Thank you, Whale Rider! Your spot-on iconographical and psychological interpretation of the trio of Robert Burton photos is absolutely brilliant. I find myself thinking of The Fellowship of Friends students who either unwittingly, or consciously procure for Robert Burton, the Pathway to Presence pimps.

If any of you reading this are former procurers, know that every word you write with the aim of revealing Rpbert Burton, for the narcissistic, greedy, selfish false prophet with a male-to-male satyr complex that he is, will serve to make amends. Some prospective students attending introductory meetings are literally like lambs before being led to the wolf. I write here simply in the hope of catching the eye of someone before they are mislead and seduced by this false prophet who promises everything and requires that his students leave their good sense, responsibility, independence, real happiness, and dignity at the door.

191. Incognito - September 23, 2010

Heya everybody,

To throw some more oil onto your burning brains, let me ask you a question: has anybody here ever had a thought that, not withstanding personal lives of some of the members and of the founder, the FoF still provided (past tense, since I am not personally familiar with the current situation, and expect it to be somewhat different) opportunities for:
– the 1st line of work (studying and practicing the System of Gurdjieff-Ouspensky),
– 2nd line of work (communicating with other people who are studying the System, as well as engaging into various activities with them, including manual labor, art production, etc.),
– and, finally, 3rd line of work (defined as working for the School, – recruiting new members, performing organizational duties…)

I personally would answer yes to each part of this question, and that is how I see my own years as a member of this organization – using the School, and not just being used by it. A fair exchange, in my opinion.

Moreover, this perfectly fits into the idea of a Fourth Way group, in fact providing a fairly good example of it. Apart from that, it is mostly up to the people themselves what to make of their own time in the School – and after it.

Gracies!

192. X-ray - September 23, 2010

183. nige – September 22, 2010

179 X-ray

I have been asking same question, Nigel, and honestly I don’t have an answer but I think that unless people will start filing sexual abuse lawsuits against Burton rather than dealing with FoF, like in the post 174 by Bruce, nothing will really ‘rattle his cage’.

191. Incognito – September 23, 2010

Yes, FoF does provide many opportunities to prostitute yourself for a reward, doing the manual (hand) labor, oral and anal labor depends on your skills.

193. GoldenVeil - September 23, 2010

191. Incognito

– the 1st line of work (studying and practicing the System of Gurdjieff-Ouspensky),
– 2nd line of work (communicating with other people who are studying the System, as well as engaging into various activities with them, including manual labor, art production, etc.),
– and, finally, 3rd line of work (defined as working for the School, – recruiting new members, performing organizational duties…)

Yes, all the above “opportunities” are true Incognito, albeit with a twist.

1st : It is one thing to require 10% of one’s income for “teaching payments;”
but the exorbitant special dues throughout the year and requests to buy Robert Burton special gifts are outrageous. And what is the “School” teaching? Well, how to accept and believe the “magical thinking” ideas of Robert Burton’s regarding foretelling the end of the world, the espteric meanings of license plates, ancient Egypt, and 44 angels, etc.

2nd : After years of studying and practicing the “System of Gurdjieff-Ouspensky,” and devotion to Robert Burton, elder students have been thrown aside and disabled students been removed from their jobs, and summarily dismissed from the “School” and told not to return. Then current students are directed by Robert Burton to not speak or consort with these former students. Friendships, families, and marriages have been severely damaged by following this direction.

3rd : As far as recruiting new members, what does the student feel who knows “The Teacher’s” predatory predilections, when seeing a prospective student who is young and handsome and interested in “The Work.” Whoopee, here’s a feather for my cap!” Probably. “Not able to pay those teaching payments and special gifts? No problem, an exception can be made for you, young handsome man!”

And who is really “Present,” incognito? The older student taking the judgmental photographs of the newer students, Robert Burton’s traveling harem members as they participate in an orgy with their “Teacher”, or the wife required to swallow the bitter bile that arises when she understands why her young, handsome husband has been separated from her and is now part of a inner circle, the priveleged, traveling harem?

Can a person of conscience knowing the darkness that permeates the Fellowship of Friends on so many levels remain? It would be necessary to turn a blind eye- “see no evil,” cover one’s ears-“hear no evil,” and perhaps like you, Incognito, “speak no evil.”

194. Ollie - September 23, 2010

169. Pictures of Robert Burton

Further research shows that 3 very similar photos seem to have been released. Maybe the Fellowship of Friends uses each one on different occasions. And surely each one has a hidden meaning. So many fingers, so many mysteries!

195. Incognito - September 23, 2010

193. GoldenVeil,

These are all very touchy issues, and your representation of them makes them look definitely of major importance. My personal and, hence, subjective experience went to show that: – nobody was ever really twisting anybody’s arm to make any extra payments. Plenty of people were able to participate in the meetings and dinners (I am not discussing the usefulness of these events here, lol) using vouchers, work exchange, etc. The main reason somebody would feel forced to attend any of these and/or donate big sums of money was their own gullibility. And as for the “teaching”, it only took one to open a “Work book” to get acquainted with the System per se. After all, wasn’t the System supposed to be what brought people into the School to begin with? Robert Burton’s ideas never replaced the ideas in the books of G.I.G. and P.D.O., not for me, at least. And I never heard of people being talked out of studying the major books for themselves..

It’s a distress to hear some of the stories of students who were asked to leave the School after serving it for many years. In this regard I do not approve of the methods of RB – or Fellowship officials, for that matter. Yet, not being very well familiar with any of the cases, I am not in position to fully judge. I guess it could partly come down to legal definitions of how the membership can be terminated from both sides.. I hope that those who “lost the School” in such a way were able to cope with it and have found something in themselves that could replace their need for such place..

I would also like to make a note that many of the details of “the secret life” in the FoF are nothing new, really, to the Fourth way in general. One can take a look at this page: http://www.gurdjieff.org/rope.htm, or read about Ouspensky’s later years earlier in the blog to get a similar picture. There was always the “material question”; there were always rich, well-off people hovering around both GIG and PDO, whom, it could be said, they “marketed” towards. And none of the Fourth way “sheikhs” was even remotely ascetic in their lifestyles. What I am trying to say is that there might be more to this than just Robert Burton and the Fellowship…

It is a different question if RB could be compared in his level of teaching to the founders of the movement. But it doesn’t completely erase my initial point: that, technically, there were all, or most, conditions in place at the FoF to practice the Work, or at least to get the basic experience working with its tools. If one used this opportunity, or got caught in their own weaknesses and misfortunes, is a matter of personal stories. In most cases, everybody had a choice to do what they deemed right.

196. silentpurr - September 23, 2010

Robert is now teaching non-duelism?

197. Opus 111 - September 23, 2010

Incognito:

If the testimonials in the previous 95 pages did not change your view of FOF, I am doubtful anything will.

By the same token, do not expect that your single experience will change people’s mind.

198. leonhardon - September 23, 2010

191 Incognito

Some comments on your spurious argument follow,

“the FoF still provided………. opportunities for:
– the 1st line of work (studying and practicing the System of Gurdjieff-Ouspensky),

The Fellowship never taught and does not now teach the System of Gurdjieff -Ouspensky. It taught bits of it, fragments of fragments, mostly from Ouspensky, in a very idiosyncratic and flawed way.
It was Gurdjieff lite, and just like Bud lite, looks like beer, comes in a beer bottle, with a fancy label. but tastes like crap when compared to the real thing.

“- 2nd line of work (communicating with other people who are studying the System, as well as engaging into various activities with them, including manual labor, art production, etc.),”

As I point out above, nobody was studying the “system”. The idea that you were studying the system came from the Fellowship bait and switch routine. You swallowed the bait at the introductory meetings, probably after finding a bookmark for, “Gurdjieff Ouspensky Centres”. You studied instead, a whacky, distorted, incomplete version of the “system” Also your “communication” was controlled radically, whether or not you noticed and often proceeded with people who weren’t studying anything at all other than how to aquire power and influence in order to get laid more often.

“- and, finally, 3rd line of work (defined as working for the School, – recruiting new members, performing organizational duties…)”

Sounds good! Unfortunately it never was a, “school” in the real sense. A seriously deluded man, claiming to be a conscious teacher, pontificated from on high and assured everyone that they were building an ark for civilization. An ark that the so called, ” angels” obviously have absolutely no use for.
The flock ran around dividing their attention and suppressing their feelings in the magical belief that if they listened to enough Beethoven, they would somehow, someday be delivered to the, “Celestial City of Paradise”. Meanwhile, the “teacher” kept busy calculating how much cock he deserved to suck, while everyone was busy “awakening”.

Your writing has all the smell of P.R., shill, bullshit to me. If you want to waste your time here imaging you’ll convince someone that it really wasn’t so bad after all, go knock yourself out.

It was worse than most of us have realized, even after some years of trying to put it into some coherent perspective and to digest the deep levels of both deception and self deception.

199. GoldenVeil - September 23, 2010

198. leonhardon

“It was worse than most of us have realized, even after some years of trying to put it into some coherent perspective and to digest the deep levels of both deception and self deception.”*

Thank you for stating your views so very well here for all to read…
and especially your last sentence!*

174. Bruce Levy

I looked over your link regarding the underage sex scandal of the religious leader with a taste for young men and found an interesting short video. In it, the attorney for the 3 young man who are suing Bishop Eddie Long, a married man, describes how the bishop took Anthony Flagg (now 21) to New Zealand to celebrate his 18th birthday with ‘oral sodomy’ at the Hyatt Hotel.

This is a big law suit. Through his church, Bishop Eddie Long has deep pockets. Regarding Robert Burton, someone needs to come forward who began a relationship with him prior to age 18 (someone recent). In this economy where many are strapped for cash, the pay out to settle a lawsuit like the one portrayed on this video, could crumble the Fellowship of Friends organization for good.

http://www.examiner.com/christian-tv-in-national/bishop-eddie-long-scandal-watch-lawyer-s-video-claiming-sexual-contact-video

200. Josiane - September 24, 2010

A few years ago there was a sign posted shortly after one entered the FoF property that said: Presence Please. (It was no longer there when I left in 2008.) At the time RB commented that he was the first teacher in history to ask his students for presence. How arrogant is that! True teachers have been teaching nothing but that ever since there has been spiritual teaching on Earth.

201. Josiane - September 24, 2010

…and he is an opportunist; he will claim any teaching his followers have researched and found to be his own by adjusting it to his own new “revealed sequence”.

202. X-ray - September 24, 2010

201. Josiane – September 24, 2010

…and he is an opportunist; he will claim any teaching his followers have researched and found to be his own by adjusting it to his own new “revealed sequence”.

THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL A CHARLATAN.

203. X-ray - September 24, 2010

199. GoldenVeil – September 23, 2010

‘someone needs to come forward who began a relationship with him prior to age 18 (someone recent). ‘

I think that any lawsuit will do, regardless of the ages.

204. Josiane - September 24, 2010

202. X-Ray
A charlatan works alone and disappears before his victims find out about his tricks. RB is here to stay.

205. Ill Never Tell - September 24, 2010

Picture of REB flipping-off all that view the image is Rhode Rage along the Fourth Way; the back water road to REB’s personal version of hell and/or heaven (depends on who’s view it is) on Earth.

In Greek mythology, Rhode was the sea nymph (nereid) or goddess of the island of Rhodes. She was thought of as a daughter of Poseidon with any of several primordial sea-goddesses — with whom she might be identified herself — notably Amphitrite, to name one. (The Poseidon fountain on the Fellowship of Friends property has Poseidon centrally surrounded by mermaid-like creates (mermaids are single tailed) that are actually sea nymphs or nereids (double tailed); Amphitrite and/or offspring.)

The reason for showing only one finger, is that it implies the unshown digits to mean the number 4, as in the 4 sacred breaths. But, actually, both hands should be raised with only one digit showing to indicate unshown four digits on each hand, meaning 44.

Since 44 is the angelic number, this means the angels stand behind all that REB and FoF do. But, recently, things have not gone well. That’s why REB looks so angry. He’s flipping-off the angels, too.

Such is the life of the goddess in a man’s body. Real, he is only flipping himself off.

206. brucelevy - September 24, 2010
207. another name - September 24, 2010

Mr Incognito, Your written words are well put from a rational stand point.

Emotionally, I would say you have no clue. The psychological pressure, the lies that Robert and students distributed and still, had a tremendous effect on people including you, Mr Incognito.

One day when your mask of believing and following the fof falls off and you have the courage to “feel” deep in your self, there will be a different world and much more real. Not more comfortable, and living with the uncomfortabillity is a real road to travel.
It is though a more real road then the fellowship of friends and Robert and pathways to presence.
Good luck

Mr Incognito wrote:

It is a different question if RB could be compared in his level of teaching to the founders of the movement. But it doesn’t completely erase my initial point: that, technically, there were all, or most, conditions in place at the FoF to practice the Work, or at least to get the basic experience working with its tools. If one used this opportunity, or got caught in their own weaknesses and misfortunes, is a matter of personal stories. In most cases, everybody had a choice to do what they deemed right.

See DSpring…. letter. Anybody has the link to help Mr Incognito?

208. Rudy - September 24, 2010

Mr Incognito, Your written words are well put from a rational stand point. And I think another name can have no clue about whether you have a clue or not emotionally. The psychological pressure, the lies that Robert and students distributed and still, did not have a tremendous effect on all people at all. People can be very different.

209. Rudy - September 24, 2010

Mr Incognito, Your written words are well put from a rational stand point. And I think another name can have no clue about whether you have a clue or not emotionally from what you write. The psychological pressure, the lies that Robert and students distributed, did not have a tremendous effect on all people. People can be very different in how they digest and transform their experiences.

210. another name - September 24, 2010

Correct Rudy, not all people. Thanks for the clarification. For me surely tooooooooo many students and ex students and their children. As I have watched and still see it on a regular basis from my perception.

And yes I still say: Mr Incognito has no clue emotionally what the students and ex students and their families have to face and the consequences on the long run. what was and is happening for many, yes this is still how I see, hear and witness from my perspective.

We all need healing, even if you “think” you do not.

Awareness for you and your family and friends in your far away town from OH.

211. nige - September 24, 2010

210 another name

Thank you for you clarification. I am one of those ex-members who ‘left’ the Fellowship in 1989 in a material and emotional mess. If I look back too much about the years of psychological healing needed to come to the ‘beautiful and giving life’ I have now, I would only have anger that I could not deal with. I have found balance in my work, social and family life and realize I have paid the PRICE (my family name) for what I have now. I come to the blog only to help those who have doubts about their being involved with the Fellowship and wish to find reasons for their wishing to leave (also to share with those who have left)…..Nigel.

212. nige - September 24, 2010

“To a Friend whose Work has Come to Nothing”
(W B Yeats)

Now all the truth is out,
Be secret and take defeat from any brazen throat,
For how can you compete,
Being honor bred, with one
Who, were it proved he lies,
Were neither shamed in his own
Nor in his neighbors’ eyes?
Bred to a harder thing
Than triumph, turn away
And like a laughing string
Where on mad fingers play
Amid a place of stone,
Be secret and exult,
Because of all things known,
That is most difficult.

1913

213. nige - September 24, 2010

(addended to above poem whilst Google-ing)

So you have suffered a setback?
You are not the only one to have failed.

Abraham Lincoln is, in my and many other people’s opinion, the greatest public figure in American history – a rare combination of an extremely effective politician and deeply compassionate and humanitarian man. But Lincoln suffered a multitude of failures and setbacks in his life which he did not let get in his way as he finally won the presidency and changed the course of history. If you have recently seen a reverse in your life which has been hard to accept, look at Lincoln’s life as an example of how temporary defeat hardly need mean ultimate failure.

Lincoln “Failures” List
Lost job in 1832.
Defeated for state legislature in 1832.
Failed in business in 1833.
Elected to state legislature in 1834.
Sweetheart died in 1835.
Had nervous breakdown in 1836.
Defeated for Speaker in 1838.
Defeated for nomination for Congress in 1843.
Elected to Congress in 1846.
Lost renomination in 1848.
Rejected for land officer in 1849.
Defeated for U.S. Senate in 1854.
Defeated for nomination for Vice President in 1856.
Again defeated for U.S. Senate in 1858.
Elected President in 1860.

214. fofblogmoderator - September 24, 2010

Sorry comments are closed for this entry

%d bloggers like this: