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Fellowship Of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion – Part 87 December 12, 2009

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.
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Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion.

For recent pages from the blog go here

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussionblog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

To visit “Pathway To Presence”, the newly created web site for recruiting new members to the Fellowship; http://www.pathwaytopresence.org

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban or a leave of absence from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/

Comments

1. ton - December 12, 2009

dc writes on the previous page:

“The law makers did not recognize certain realities that you contest are part of the issue, such as various pressures people are under in certain moments – inner considering, fear of failure, fear of disappointing an authority figure, but most of all the lawmakers did not recognize the reality that most men do not possess real will; men know right from wrong, or what is against their nature or not against it, but often men cannot hold to their own principles or convictions for lack of will.”

why does dc keep returning the conversation to “the laws” when burton the “conscious being” holds himself above the laws anyway?!

the sorts of laws dc keeps bringing up here are for people who don’t have an inner moral compass, they are for people who need to be told right from wrong in their conduct toward others… the laws in this case are somewhat general ad hoc guidelines put into place as a deterent for people who don’t know how to behave ‘justly’ toward others or lack enough self-control to behave in a civil manner. obviously “the laws” are no substitute for the guidance of conscience.

conscience seems to be the key, laws in are a poor but necessary substitute for a functioning conscience. conscience normally provides a measure of self-restraint and if burton had a functioning conscience there would be no need for any of this, he would know right from wrong and he would have some ability to control his behaviors in relation to others. how does this ‘conscious being’ (burton) help his “students” by confusing them about right and wrong and by coercing them to go against their own nature? how does this help the individual’s ‘lack of will’?

of course these are all rhetorical questions, he doesn’t help others, very often he causes more harm than he does good, and he does in fact need the outside application of guidelines and restrictions on his behaviour — for his own benefit since he is unable to control himself, and for the good of the wider community. the trouble is that there are no laws yet “on the books” that can put him in his place… this does not vindicate or justify his unconcionable behavior toward others… dc will say otherwise… dc wants it both ways: burton is a ‘conscious being’ and so the laws of human beings do not apply AND because there are no laws (yet) that burton is violating, that means that what he does is “legal” and justified. ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!

on the previous page opus asked: “If it is not legal rape, is it spiritual rape?” the answer is yes that’s exactly what it is… any true “spiritual” teacher would know better than to carry on in the deceitful, shameful, disgraceful and criminal way that burton has for decades. what of the human cost that results from titilating this miscreant?

he is not a teacher, he is a charlatan, it is fraudulent to call himself ‘teacher.’ a teacher would have some degree of care and empathy for those under his tutelage, he would NOT actively attempt to create and use confusion in his students in order to coerce them into doing things against their nature, against their will, against their own self interests. burton’s conscience has been malfunctioning for many decades, this allows him to take advantage of others in ways that a person with a conscience functioning in the ‘normal’ range wouldn’t even dream of.

the malfunctioning of burton’s conscience makes him different alright, he’s sick, certainly not ‘normal’ but this peculiarity doesn’t make him a ‘conscious being’ as his supporters would like to believe… his lack of conscience does in a sense put him outside of the norms of conduct including ‘the laws of man,’ but his condition has been twisted and misconstrued, rationalized by he and supported by his followers; this peculiarity of his — no conscience– gives him his power.

he uses his position of power over others and treats them as sheep for fleecing, as cash-cows at best, or in many cases as mere objects for the acting out of his sexual obsessions, his satyriasis — he operates with no consideration of the consequences to those “mere objects” which indicates he has no conscience. he has no ability or inclination to control himself, therefore he is one of those without a moral compass and in need the outer guidelines and restrictions of laws which are unfortunately not yet in place. realistically such laws will probably never be enacted but then many a criminal walks free and continues committing crimes — this does not vindicate the criminal nor does it justify the continuance of criminal behavior.

2. ton - December 12, 2009

from the previous page, goldenveil states it much more clearly, succinctly and better than i:

We can either treat other people as objects of our calculation,

exploitation and consumption, or we can see other people as we

see ourselves. All great religions more or less embody the latter

ethic ~ like the Christian ‘Golden Rule’ ~ “Do unto others as you

would have them do unto you”.

As Robert Burton holds a position of authority, and within the

Fellowship of Friends is considered Divine and a Conscious Being,

his use of followers for sexual satisfaction is a clear breach of

trust. By virtue of his elevated standing in the Fellowship of

Friends his sexual pursuit of his followers is ethically wrong

because it is inherently coercive.

This is sexual misconduct of the highest order because in order to

achieve success Robert Burton utilizes intoxication, manipulation,

and deceit ~ conduct that therefore leads to suffering and trouble.

As his followers are subordinate to him they are unable to give

proper consent to his sexual advances because of fear of possible

repercussions. In contrast, good sexual conduct is based on loving

kindness, generosity, honesty, and mental and emotional clarity ~

conduct that has positive results and not possible in a Divine

‘Teacher’ / ‘Student’ environment where a power relationship is

prevalent.

3. WhaleRider - December 12, 2009

Daily Cardiac:
“But the law does not recognize that concept in many instances. Consent trumps any advantageous status or power as far as the law is concerned. You might not like to hear that but that’s the way it works.”

Arkansas Code Ann. § 5-14-126. Sexual assault in the third degree.

(a) A person commits sexual assault in the third degree if the person:

(1) Engages in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual activity with another person who is not the actor’s spouse, and the actor is:

(A) Employed with the Department of Correction, Department of Community Correction, Department of Health and Human Services, or any city or county jail, and the victim is in the custody of the Department of Correction, Department of Community Correction, Department of Health and Human Services, or any city or county jail; or

(B) A professional under § 12-12-507(b) or a member of the clergy and is in a position of trust or authority over the victim and uses the position of trust or authority to engage in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual activity; or

(2) (A) Being under eighteen (18) years of age, engages in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual activity with another person who is:

(i) Less than fourteen (14) years of age; and
(ii) Not the person’s spouse

(B) It is an affirmative defense under this subdivision (a)(2) that the actor was not more than three (3) years older than the victim.

(b) It is no defense to a prosecution under this section that the victim consented to the conduct.

(c) Sexual assault in the third degree is a Class C felony.

>>>>>>><<<<<<

You might not like to hear that you living in a fantasy world.

In fact, the jails are filled with rapists and some of them are correctional officers who also abuse their power, like your cult leader does, which is why the above statute includes the two instances: they are very similar.

What trumps your reason is your blind devotion and inability to see the truth.

4. brucelevy - December 12, 2009

Just like RB, DC continually talks at great length about things he so clearly doesn’t have a fucking clue about. In the FOF some, like DC, speak with self proclaimed authority, and the dumb fucks stand there and nod.

I don’t know, DC, who you think you are lecturing, but you consistently come off like a stupid, narcissistic little shit. Your statements of fact are pure crap. You may like watching yourself speak, but you are simply a useless little jerk. Go fuck yourself you impotent little dick.

5. Anon E. Mouse - December 12, 2009

I see that you have given up on reason & logic, Bro. Good thinking.

6. Spock - December 12, 2009

Actually, I’ll step in here and say his response is VERY good thinking. I’m sure you, Anon Earl Mouse, would prefer silence, but it ain’t happening here.

7. Anon E. Mouse - December 12, 2009

Don’t try any of your Vulcan tricks on me, Mr. Spock.

8. Spock - December 12, 2009

Getting back to one of the threads on the previous page, one of the little “tools” that Burton uses to stifle dissent within the Fellowship of Friends / Pathway to Presence, is to categorize all criticisms of him and the FOF as “judgment” or “wrong triad” or “negativity,” and other similar retorts.

The main goal of this is to suppress the articulation of what people are thinking.

Don’t confuse “Telling someone how you think” to “Telling them how to live” or “judging them.”

The concern of coming across as a Critic is a very effective tool for suppressing dissent in the “Fellowship.” It prevents people from expressing what they think, and what they feel about Burton’s destructive behavior.

I love the tremendous flurry (above) to start this page, and the entire last page (86) is something we should go back to time and again. It’s people expressing how they really think about Burton. What a novel concept. And in those criticisms, there’s an enormous amount of kindness. If you don’t see it yet, then look more closely.

9. Spock - December 12, 2009

Anon Earl.: Dr. McCoy actually taught me that.

10. Silentpurr - December 12, 2009

Along with what Spock just offered, I can remember distinctly being shocked by observing RB and company,secretly giggling at something on the deck of the Lincoln Lodge. It was a new student, frightened and uncoordinated, trying to properly set a table…….. for Robert ,perhaps,this was a teaching moment. I can imagine his saying, while pointing with little finger ” That, goodness is an example of a lunar in an earlier lifetime”

11. Yesri Baba - December 12, 2009

DC: “For one thing, there’s only one of me”

Oh…well then, I stand corrected. I just figured it was a psychological impossibility for any single person to come up with such a galactic quantity of moronic lying stupidity. Since you have a connection to the ‘spirit world’ I guess you could be channeling the Big Kahuna Of Doofusdom.

On the other hand…if that’s the case and everything you write is a lie….

12. Daily Cardiac - December 12, 2009

Tatyana:

“I was talking about the party where I was (scared shitless) the only ex and where you, DC (if I know your identity) were also and gave me a nice hug!”

I’ve given you a nice hug before but not lately, not at the party you mentioned. If I would have been there I would have.

By the way, be careful what you write (shitless); the spell correct turned it onto “shirtless!”

13. Spock - December 12, 2009

I am absolutely sure that people are ignoring the relentless, idiotic, distraction from DC and are instead focusing on posts such as 1 through 4 above.

By the way…”be careful” is the Motto of Fear in the Fellowship of Friends / Pathway to Presence. Be careful, or Robert might disapprove. Be careful, or you will lose the school. Be careful, or you will bring the wrath of the gods down upon yourself. Be careful or Abe will sue you. Be careful, or someone will tell on you.

When you really look at it more closely, the Fellowship of Friends cannot exist without such an immature refrain. Be careful, be careful, be careful.

I mean, seriously, who gives a shit whether Robert “approves” or not?

From the previous page:

“…So I was pressured again and again, until I finally gave up and let him swallow a couple of loads. It was not something I enjoyed, or understood. There was no love or respect or free-will involved AT ALL. I found the experience humiliating and repulsive.”

14. Golden Veil - December 12, 2009

*

86 / 170.

Dear Flogmoderator,

I am seeking the 18 excommunicated posts by Nigel.

Where do I find them?

*

15. Tatyana - December 13, 2009

“Shirtless” in FOF means nothing much. It is a group of sex-addicts.

I watched recently a program called Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew. Highly recommend to FOFers.

I think people at Apollo don’t even realize what does it mean a sex-addict. They believe that sex energy is almost a higher state of consciousness, so the more sex energy – the more consciousness. The intensity or a ‘high’ they get from all this sexual stuff makes them think that they are transforming something into higher centers.

I am still a little shocked to see people in the Gurdjieff Foundation or just in life who are almost asexual – they do not flirt, do not make personal or double-meaning remarks, do not touch, do not stare etc.

I think it is because RB has Sun and Uranus in 8th house (for those who know astrology). Real esoteric school can not be build on the 8th house. It is more 11 house thing. Las Vegas is more like 8th house. So, for people who are looking for an esoteric school – do not settle for Las Vegas – it is not IT!

16. Yesri Baba - December 13, 2009

DC

By the way, be careful you don’t stick your head any farther up your ass or you might see your retarded thoughts.

17. Yesri Baba - December 13, 2009

“I think it is because RB has Sun and Uranus ”

What do you think DC?
Is it because RB has One in Uranus?

(damn spell check!)

18. Yesri Baba - December 13, 2009

Hey, what do butthole bob and captain Kirk have in common?

They both circle Uranus licking Klingons.

19. Daily Cardiac - December 13, 2009

Golden Veil:

“We can either treat other people as objects of our calculation,

exploitation and consumption, or we can see other people as we

see ourselves. All great religions more or less embody the latter

ethic ~ like the Christian ‘Golden Rule’ ~ “Do unto others as you

would have them do unto you”.

As Robert Burton holds a position of authority, and within the

Fellowship of Friends is considered Divine and a Conscious Being,

his use of followers for sexual satisfaction is a clear breach of

trust. By virtue of his elevated standing in the Fellowship of

Friends his sexual pursuit of his followers is ethically wrong

because it is inherently coercive.”

From your post it’s clear you haven’t considered what’s good for the spirit is not necessarily good for the mind/senses/emotions. Spiritual pursuits are under their own laws and conditions. I see the same contradictions as you see, but I there is another, higher, set of laws and conditions. You were once interested in seeing those also, which is what attracted you to seek out the FoF.

“This is sexual misconduct of the highest order because in order to

achieve success Robert Burton utilizes intoxication, manipulation,

and deceit ~ conduct that therefore leads to suffering and trouble.

As his followers are subordinate to him they are unable to give

proper consent to his sexual advances because of fear of possible

repercussions.”

Where are the victims? Who are the victims, what are their names? Where are their medical records? Who treated them for their trauma? Their number must be legion, but they are the most discrete group of victims ever assembled.

“It is clear to me from reading the personal accounts on this blog

that Robert Burton has immorally taken advantage of his position

of power and authority to coerce many of his male followers into

having [what they consider] obscene sexual practices with him.”

People believe what they choose to believe if they are bound to the second state. This is the nature of subjectivity; in a sense they can’t be wrong because they see what they want to believe.

If they are able to rise to the third state they believe what they objectively see.

20. brucelevy - December 13, 2009

19. Daily Cardiac

And there it is…the face of evil, egocentric narcissism, and total lack of conscience and soul. Join up today. Trade in reality for self soothing, numbing. insanity. DC represents the FOF…a big steaming pile of shit.

21. fofblogmoderator - December 13, 2009

#14 – Golden Veil, I have sent the Nigel posts to your email address.

22. Crouching Tiger - December 13, 2009

“From your post it’s clear you haven’t considered what’s good for the spirit is not necessarily good for the mind/senses/emotions. Spiritual pursuits are under their own laws and conditions. I see the same contradictions as you see, but I there is another, higher, set of laws and conditions.”

From time immemorial, ever since Moses came down from his conversation with God on the mountain with the ten commandments in his hand, spiritual experience has been informing ordinary morality. Solomon in the OT, and many of the great Sufis like Ibn-Arabi were also social leaders. The Spiritual and the Moral are like two halves of the same coin, pointing in different directions. Who in their right mind would argue with a statement like “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?

Of course Burton does regulate the morality of those around him. People see that they can use their power and position to get what they think they want – like the vouchers for sex scandal. No accident that the two people involved were two of the three closest to Burton at that time. They were just following the model they saw.

The keys are concealment and division. Burton’s sexual behaviour is concealed from those already in, and those would come for as long as is practically possible. If there were nothing to hide, Burton’s behaviour as a human being would be part of the Fellowship advertising and program, or at least freely admitted and discussed by members right from the start. After all, what’s the problem with that? Anyone who’d experienced a 3rd state would be able to understand his MO, wouldn’t they?

Once his behaviour is known, it is conveniently divided from his teaching – “Do as I say, not as I do”. As long as you think you’re making progress in the spiritual dimension and having lots of 3rd states at events – which conveniently, no-one can prove or disprove – the lower self can go to hell and continue to do whatever it damn well likes…

“What’s good for the spirit is not necessarily good for the mind/senses/emotions”.

None of our lower functions can understand what’s going on ‘above’ them. And we want to keep it that way, right? God forbid that any of our refined experiences should actually prove useful and contribute to the health and right action of the whole organism.

Why would anyone want to live in this world?

23. Ill Never Tell - December 13, 2009

86/259. James Mclemore:
‘they embraced far-fetched ideas they would otherwise not have embraced, they had or did not have relationships based on what RB advised. People gave up their connections to their families. Couples gave up their children. Women had abortions. And worst of all, young men were manipulated and were emotionally painfully indoctrinated into the sexual activities that a very sick Robert Burton craved. . .’

Some of that, and what was actually being practiced, not unlike other cult-like societies, example: Mormons, was/is eerily similar to Eugenics:

‘Eugenics is the study and practice of selective breeding applied to humans, with the aim of improving the species. In a historical and broader sense, eugenics can also be a study of “improving human genetic qualities.” Advocates of eugenics sought to counter what they regarded as dysgenic dynamics within the human gene pool, specifically in regard to congenital disorders and factors relating to the heritability of IQ.

Widely popular in the early decades of the 20th century, it has largely fallen into disrepute after having become associated with Nazi Germany.’

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

More:

‘Nazi eugenics were Nazi Germany’s racially-based social policies that placed the improvement of the race through eugenics at the center of their concerns and targeted those humans they identified as “life unworthy of life” (German Lebensunwertes Leben), including but not limited to the criminal, degenerate, dissident, feeble-minded, homosexual, idle, insane, religious, and weak, for elimination from the chain of heredity. More than 400,000 people were sterilized against their will, while 70,000 were killed in the Action T4. [also wikipedia]

One of the admonishments in FoF was to consider if you multiplied your actions by number of people in school – how helpful or destructive they might be to the aim of the school. So, if you applied that to the actions of Robert Earl Burton, just think what the Fellowship of Friends – Pathway to Presence – Beingpresent.org – Apollo.org – Renaissance Vineyard and Winery – The Art of Divine Presence would be like: utter insane asylum.

24. Ill Never Tell - December 13, 2009

Per 86/268. Golden Veil:
CULTS: DANGEROUS DEVOTION (in 10 parts):

‘Journey behind closed doors into a secret world where faith and devotion lead to desperation and despair. From the bizarre prophecies of Charles Manson to the desperate paranoia of Jim Jones, cult leaders draw followers into worlds of power, paranoia,and death. Why do people join? Why do they stay? And how can we stop them? Through interviews with world-renowned scholars and the survivors of cultic tragedy, CULTS: DANGEROUS DEVOTION unmasks the mystery of cults.

Meet survivors of modern-day cults and true believers who still number among the faithful. Hear from mothers and fathers who have lost a child to a cult and observe FBI agents working to identify exploitative groups that endanger individuals or even the entire nation. And delve through history to examine how cults have seized hearts and minds throughout time.

CULTS: DANGEROUS DEVOTION is a truly eye-opening examination of a world that few of us will ever see, but that potentially affects us all.

Just some of the charismatic leaders and cults examined in CULTS: DANGEROUS DEVOTION are: * Charles Manson * Jim Jones and Jonestown * Warren Jeffs and the Yearning for Zion Ranch * Shoko Asahara and Aum Shinrikyo * David Koresh and the Branch Davidians * The Nizari, the drug-fueled assassins from the time of the Crusades.’

25. Ill Never Tell - December 13, 2009

86/273. WhaleRider:
‘In the tiny hamlet of Oregon House volunteers from the Fellowship of Friends, Inc. are lining up like cypress trees to be the first to receive an experimental vaccine for the rare deadly strain of thought virus called, C1B1, which can cause a painful swelling of the critical thought center in the brain.’

I hear that the C1B1 is most opportunistically transmitted by the intimate exchange of bodily fluids. Avoid that and your nearly safe.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

An open post to DC:

Hey, DC, just because certain actions may not be illegal, or that the ability to prosecute successfully is a very remote possibility, or that other legal action is very unlikely, does not mean that it is just fine to do as you please. Or, in short, just because you can get away with something does not mean you should do it – very juvenile behaviour, IMHO. Or as it used to be said: supercelestial thoughts; subterrainian actions.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

276. Tatyana:
‘Is FOF changed? Is it capable of changing in an honest and spiritual organization?’

The insidious background hidden agenda will likely never change; at least not in your lifetime. Those people are stuck in their sorry-assed world and have nowhere to go so they are trying to put on a good face and make the best of a very bad situation. The people living in Oregon House, whether in the Fellowship of Friends – Pathway to Presence – Beingpresent.org – Apollo.org – Renaissance Vineyard and Winery – The Art of Divine Presence, or not, have to live with their neighbors. Call it damage control, if you will. And, BTW, as adverse as your experience has been and likely knowledge you have of others, I can tell you that there are many stories yet untold on this blog that would be hard to believe. There were many years that passed before you joined FoF and many things that were happening while you were there that are still hidden.

‘scared shitless’ should read: scared shitlist; because anyone still in FoF should be concerned about getting on to Robert Earl Burton’s shitlist. All you have to do is deny the temper tantrum baby burton his sex toys or anything else he’s keen on and you will find out how ‘scared shitless’ you are about being on his shitlist. You can devote your entire life, years to decades, all your wealth, talents and labour, etc. to the cause, but do something that puts you on the shitlist and you’re history. Everyone is expendable; even any heirs-apparent to the throne. BE CAREFUL: THOSE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES MUST NOT STOW THRONES. (Ass kissing, and kissing other anatomical parts, is the best way to go if you want to stick around. How does that sound for A influence?)

26. WhaleRider - December 13, 2009

Daily Cardiac:
“From your post it’s clear you haven’t considered what’s good for the spirit is not necessarily good for the mind/senses/emotions.”

This dangerous and unhealthy rationalization is exactly why the FOF needs to be shut down. This is how you justify burton’s sexual and emotional abuse. Mind/body/spirit are interconnected. You in the FOF eat burton’s shit and call it food.

“Where are the victims? Who are the victims, what are their names? Where are their medical records? Who treated them for their trauma?”

Show me the medical test for soul. The wounds that burton inflicts are invisible.

27. Tatyana - December 13, 2009

“And, BTW, as adverse as your experience has been and likely knowledge you have of others, I can tell you that there are many stories yet untold on this blog that would be hard to believe. There were many years that passed before you joined FoF and many things that were happening while you were there that are still hidden”

Why is it still hidden? Is there any chance to get more facts? (why you’ll never tell?)

28. Nancy - December 13, 2009

DC (#19) “People believe what they choose to believe if they are bound to the second state. This is the nature of subjectivity; in a sense they can’t be wrong because they see what they want to believe. If they are able to rise to the third state they believe what they objectively see.”
Am I correct, DC, that the inference here is that you and other Pathway to Presence (Fellowship of Friends) members are processing information from the third state of consciousness, and are therefore more objective than we mere subjective former members who are operating from the lower, second state of consciousness? If not, what is your point?
As far as Robert Burton’s teachings being objective vs. subjective, I think we need to review the Fourth Way definitions of so-called higher states and objective knowledge. According to Gurdjieff (In Search of the Miraculous, p. 141 and 145), “ The third state of consciousness is self-remembering or self-consciousness or consciousness of one’s being. The fourth state of consciousness is called the objective state of consciousness. In this state a man can see things ‘as they are’… and… “without self-consciousness, or the third state, the fourth, except in rare flashes, is impossible. Knowledge… real objective knowledge…is conditional upon the full possession of the fourth state of consciousness.”
What is ‘objective knowledge’ as the term is used in the Fourth Way system? “One of the most central of the ideas of objective knowledge”, said G., “is the idea of the unity of everything, of unity in diversity”…. “With objective consciousness it is possible to see and feel the unity of everything (pp. 278-279, In Search of the Miraculous”).
So, DC, after heaven know how many years of studying and practicing the Fourth Way under the tutelage of Robert Burton, you still do not even know your basic ‘states of consciousness’ tables. Tut-tut- there seems to be some basic deficiency in your esoteric education here! I think you would be wise to drop your methodology of using Fourth Way arguments and language to justify your teacher’s aberrant and abhorrent behaviors and stick to the simple facts as manifested here on planet earth. The fact is that Robert Burton makes up his so-called ‘objective knowledge’ based on what serves his narcissistic needs at the moment, not on any connections to a higher state of consciousness. The fact that his so-called objective knowledge changes whimsically in order to meet his needs (that homosexual relations were banned as ‘cosmically wrong wiring’ in the 70’s and 80’s and are now A-OK in the Fellowship of Friends, is a good example), and that his teaching is riddled with duality (the ‘chosen innies vs. the damned outies’ being just one of hundreds of examples), rather than unifying in nature, contradicts the very nature of ‘objective knowledge’.

I have to conclude that you “believe what you choose to believe”, which, according to your criteria, places you in the ‘second state of consciousness’.

29. Susan Zannos - December 13, 2009

This continuing exchange with DC, and the postings from that supposed blogger, have finally tipped me into complete disbelief. I cannot believe that this is an actual person, or an actual consortium, existing within the Fellowship of Friends. There are some wonderfully talented parodists contributing to the blog, and I think the DC postings may be a product of the creativity of one of them.

30. brucelevy - December 13, 2009

29. Susan Zannos

“There are some wonderfully talented parodists contributing to the blog, and I think the DC postings may be a product of the creativity of one of them.”

I don’t think so.

31. arthur - December 13, 2009

I once heard on the hand me down Fellowship of Friends gossip wire that Robert Burton (the teacher) said that “the school (his) is a good hiding place for Homosexuals”. That was back in the 70’s. Who knew?

32. Spock - December 14, 2009

Regarding the insane notion that Burton’s victims give their “consent” and therefore his habit of preying on his followers is a type of normal sex…

Years ago, Burton wrote: “Most predators prey on their victim without them knowing it.”

Bingo.

Burton also wrote: “It’s incredible how subjective morality is.” This one of the most common responses to any criticism of Burton and the FOF — morality is subjective. It’s an idea that justifies almost anything. And that attitude makes me wonder if there’s any line he won’t cross to keep his way of life intact.

As Goldenveil wrote on the previous page:
“As Robert Burton holds a position of authority, and within the Fellowship of Friends is considered Divine and a Conscious Being, his use of followers for sexual satisfaction is a clear breach of trust.”

—-

Regarding DC being a spoof: No. But I understand it’s hard to imagine anyone would honestly believe what they’re writing. I really don’t think they do believe it. They realize Burton is a predator. They realize people are being hurt. They realize it’s crazy. But to DC, FOF followers being a victim of a predator — even if they don’t realize they’re being preyed upon — is a small price to pay.

Nothing new. Leaving yourself in harm’s way for the sake of supposed enlightenment is the mantra of many cults. “All students need shocks, ” Burton wrote, “which is why we have so much suffering throughout our school.”

First of all, most of the suffering in the “school” is caused Burton himself. Second, explain to me again how there is any more “suffering throughout our school” than there is anywhere? The Fellowship of Friends continues to be a dream world with imaginary accomplishments combined with real and tangible consequences for those who participate.

33. Ill Never Tell - December 14, 2009

29. Susan Zannos:

‘There are some wonderfully talented parodists contributing to the blog, and I think the DC postings may be a product of the creativity of one of them.’

Yeh, Susan, it might even be you! – an alter-ego in a Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde sort of way – where the one that wrote the above message does not even know that the other, DC, is doing the writing!?

34. James Mclemore - December 14, 2009

29. Susan Zannos

“There are some wonderfully talented parodists contributing to the blog, and I think the DC postings may be a product of the creativity of one of them.”

I entertained the same thought at one time a while back. I wondered if someone was just giving people a place to sort of ‘tee-off’ from.
However, I feel the same as Bruce, ‘I don’t think so’.

35. X-ray - December 14, 2009

30. brucelevy – December 13, 2009

29. Susan Zannos

“There are some wonderfully talented parodists contributing to the blog, and I think the DC postings may be a product of the creativity of one of them.”

I don’t think so.

I agree with Bruce.
I’m pretty sure DC is an actual fellowhip student, and I think it is an asshole number 5, but I can be wrong on that.

36. The FOFion - December 14, 2009

Burton Frustrated That More Students Aren’t Leaving the School

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Fellowship of Friends (Pathway to Presence) Leader Robert Burton called a press conference Sunday following the morning meeting to express his frustration that only about 900 followers have left the school in recent years.

“I’ve done everything I can to encourage people to leave the school, but they’re staying,” Burton said. “I don’t get it.”

Burton said it’s important to “test” his followers as often as possible to make sure only the most loyal and dedicated remain in the fold.

“Whenever people leave, it strengthens the School,” Burton explained. “Those who remain are the ones with the most valuation.”

However, since the emergence of the Evil Blog in 2007, only about 900 followers have left the Fellowship, while about 50 have joined, and mostly in outlying centres outside the United States.

“That’s not enough people leaving,” Burton said Sunday. “Among the approximately 1,300 who remain in the School, I believe about 850 lack the necessary valuation to serve the will of Higher Forces. The remaining 450 will stay in the Fellowship no matter what I do — no matter who I hurt, and no matter what crime I commit. These are the people we need, but I’m afraid the other 850 are only hampering our efforts.”

Burton said he’s been trying “almost everything for decades” to get people to leave.

“You know, if the gods will it, then so be it,” Burton said, “but I’ve manipulated my followers to have sex with me by promising spiritual salvation and have treated them to vacations at exotic locations around the globe in return for blow jobs, and many of them are suffering the psychological consequences of that, and I’ve tried to make this as obvious as possible to all of my followers — parading around with entourages of young, pretty men with spaced-out looks on their faces everywhere I go… But people keep coming back and keep writing checks to remain members. It’s just not working. It’s remarkable.”

Burton said he may try a new, more dramatic approach in 2010 and beyond.

“Stay tuned,” he said.

37. Wouldnt You Like To Know - December 14, 2009

15. Tatyana:
‘I think it is because RB has Sun and Uranus in 8th house (for those who know astrology). Real esoteric school can not be build on the 8th house. It is more 11 house thing. Las Vegas is more like 8th house. So, for people who are looking for an esoteric school – do not settle for Las Vegas – it is not IT!’

Good paragraph, T. This brings up a subject I was contemplating recently. I was exploring the possibility, regarding body type, that Robert Earl Burton was not a mostly Saturn-Mars but actually a Uranian(1) – ruled by the planet Uranus. It took me to reading the Theory of Celestial Influence, by Rodney Collin, on the subject. This is the cycle of sex (see chapter 19 and Plate VII. Man As Micrcosm), ruled by the planet Uranus. Uranus rules the gonads. And, if there is ever an example of a person ruled by their gonads, look no further. Probably a Saturn-Uranus type – characterized by the urge to conquest and dominate in a sexual or gonadal sphere/manner. From mythology, picture Saturn, Cronos, known for the consumption of all his progeny (Time consumes all) – only later to regurgitate them back into existence so that they destroy him – and Uranus. Uranus (Sky or Heaven) being personified as both the son and the husband of Gaia, Mother Earth, that give birth to the Titans, the youngest and most ambitious of which was Saturn (Cronos) who ambushes and castrates his father, Uranus, and casts the severed testicles into the sea.

from Wikipedia:
(1) Uranian is a nineteenth century term that referred to a person of a third sex [pederastic(a)] — originally, someone with “a female psyche in a male body” who is sexually attracted to men, and later extended to cover homosexual gender variant females, and a number of other sexual types. . .
The term “uranian” was quickly adopted by English-language advocates of homosexual emancipation in the Victorian era, such as Edward Carpenter and John Addington Symonds, who used it to describe a comradely love that would bring about true democracy, uniting the “estranged ranks of society” and breaking down class and gender barriers. . .
The word [Uranian] itself alludes to Plato’s Symposium, a discussion on Eros (love). In this dialog, Pausanias distinguishes between two types of love, symbolised by two different accounts of the birth of Aphrodite, the goddess of love. In one, she was born of Uranus (the heavens), a birth in which “the female has no part” [She sprang from his severed testicles – think images of Birth of Venus.]. This Uranian Aphrodite is associated with a noble love for male youths. . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranian
(a) Pederasty or paederasty: is a (usually erotic) relationship between an older man and an adolescent boy outside his immediate family. The word pederasty derives from Greek (paiderastia) “love of boys”. . .
also from Wikipedia

Uranus, according to Rodney Collin, would be placed at the apex of the triangle in the enneagram. This position would then be both the nine and the zero on the circle, simultaneously. Is it any wonder then that he, REB, thinks of himself as the alpha and the omega (0 & 9), the beginning and the end, as Jesus Christ is/was considered? It is also the most superior place on the circle.

Do you think if REB could get his own penis to go into his own anus and/or his own mouth, it would solve all this problem of bothering others for want of sex and sex energy?

More on this subject later.

38. Daily Cardiac - December 14, 2009

Nancy – #28:

The Fourth State of consciousness, which I’ve had glimpses of, is just the icing on the cake. The Third State is more than sufficient for processing higher truths. Man is a cosmos, when he or she enters a state of self consciousness much can be understood about reality in a larger sense.

Whatever is known about one’s self can be known about another, as we can only know another person to the extent we know ourselves. This also applies to the many invisible laws that govern us, they are all within us so to know ourselves is to know many laws.

I will say this about the Fourth State; a few moments in that state can confirm what it took someone years to understand, and that confirmation happens in a flash, without words, or tables in books.

39. Nancy - December 14, 2009

DC (#86-297), you have just demonstrated that know as little about law as you do about statistics. You babble on as if you know something. I call that lying. The facts are exactly opposite to what you claim. There are plenty of laws existing right now that directly address unequal psychological power between people in authority and those that trust them.
In the workplace, there are laws against, for example, sexual harassment and exchanges of favors for advancement. In the military, there are strict regulations governing relations between officers and enlisted men and women, and officers and other officers of unequal rank. In the fields of counseling and psychiatry, there are quite specific laws aiming to prevent abuse of trust. In the financial field, ditto. In the legal field, ditto. In the educational field, ditto. In the medical field, ditto. The only field I can think of offhand where there is a general exception to this is the field of religion. And this is not because priests and gurus are somehow beyond suspicion. Far from it. It is because in the U.S.A. the Constitution forbids the state mixing itself up in religion; there is a separation between church and state. So, you will notice when the spate of victims finally prevailing against priests over the last few years, it is in the context of pedophilia. General laws that don’t specifically pick out members of religion as such do exist. It is a crime for anyone in this country to have sex with a minor, priest or no. Even Burton.
That is all that prevents victims of Burton from obtaining justice. It is not a question of proof, it is a question of the law of the land.

So, if you agree with the law that punishes a counselor who takes advantage of a client or supplicant, who has trusted the counselor with private, intimate information, has trusted the counselor to guide, to hold the best interests of the client at heart—if you agree that the law should punish the counselor who uses the information for his or her own gain, to take advantage of the trust, who abuses the authority and power he or she has gained, then you should agree that Burton should also be punished. You should agree that it is only an anomaly or some price worth paying to obtain the separation of church and state this country hold so dear that allows Burton to go free. It doesn’t matter what the field is, financial, legal, medical, military, psychiatric, society agrees that there are limits to inequality of power, that people who go past those limits deserve punishment.

If agree but you make an exception, it must be because you believe that all religious officials should receive an exemption or that Burton is somehow a special exception. Of course you claim the latter; you have played the ‘conscious persons are above all man–made laws’ card so often. And of course Burton has claimed many times that he is not now, and members of the coming civilization will not be in the future, subject to the Judeo-Christian morality that leads to the establishment of such laws, and that he will found a new morality to replace it.

And if you plain don’t agree, you think that all these dozens and dozens of separate laws, all acting together to provide what is in effect a least common denominator governing human behavior in this country, a denominator that until now apparently you were completely unaware of, according to your own words—what can I do, except to try even harder to stay clear of people like you.

DC, this is where Burton (and of course you, by extension) has completely subverted the idea of being under less laws, IMO. Here’s what I see happening. When talking up the idea that ‘more conscious’ beings are supposedly under less laws, Burton wants you to interpret that in a two–fold way. The first is that somehow a certain number or quality of laws don’t apply to him at all, that somehow he is no longer under their influence, simply by virtue of his being a man number 7 point whatever. The implication is that he has more freedom to do as he wants. The second implication is that he is somehow free of the consequences of his actions. Really, he is claiming that he has partially or completely escaped cause and effect. But this is not how it works, as Gurdjieff explained quite clearly (as I pointed out in # 8-228). What being under less laws actually means, is that the more conscious one is, the more one chooses to place oneself under and accept the guidance of conscience. When subject to ordinary morality, the voice of society tells one, “Thou shalt not steal”. A more developed person seeks not to avoid this proscription, but to obey it because their conscience tells them to, and they have learned to trust their conscience. In other words, a more developed conscience can start to replace mechanical morality. Burton, who has no conscience and no valuation for it, deliberately reinterprets this phrase to suit his purposes, and you, the faithful follower, always seeking to make the facts fit his claims, reinforce his behavior instead of calling him to account. In effect, Burton claims, “I can steal if I want to—and I do want to. There are no consequences for me”.

BTW, it is pretty obvious that among the long list of mental illnesses Burton suffers from, one is a fetish with youth. The average age of his sexual partners always remains the same. The younger looking, the better, and with lack of maturity and self–esteem to match. I bet that in Burton’s vision of the future, his new morality will include no minimum age of consent at all.

40. Ames Gilbert - December 14, 2009

Oops, the previous entry (#39) is by Ames Gilbert. Since Nancy shares the computer, it is easy to forget to change the login. Apologies to all.

41. Wouldnt You Like To Know - December 14, 2009

39. Nancy
[or Ames, as the case may be.]:
Very well stated.

42. Ellen - December 14, 2009

#38, DC,

The fourth state of consciousness is the cake, and the icing; the knife that cuts and the fork that delivers; the mouth that eats and the tongue that savours.

If you have had glimpses of It, your natural state, that’s wonderful, and also no surprise, as it is the birthright of all; but you have not yet had any glimpses that shatter your mind or your heart because – unfortunately for you (as a Person) – that’s what really matters.

43. brucelevy - December 14, 2009

38. Daily Cardiac

I have rarely come across someone who is as full of shit as you are. You’re a sick puppy.

44. Anon E. Mouse - December 14, 2009

“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant;
it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

45. WhaleRider - December 14, 2009

Daily Cardiac:
“The Fourth State of consciousness, which I’ve had glimpses of, is just the icing on the cake. The Third State is more than sufficient for processing higher truths. Man is a cosmos, when he or she enters a state of self consciousness much can be understood about reality in a larger sense….I will say this about the Fourth State; a few moments in that state can confirm what it took someone years to understand, and that confirmation happens in a flash, without words, or tables in books.”

Again you speak from burton’s cult indoctrination, not what you have actually experienced. You have been indoctrinated to speak about the “fourth state” only in terms of “glimpses” and “icing on the cake”,.

Self-awareness is sufficient for processing truths about one’s self.

If man is a cosmos, and I have no reason to believe he/she is not, then one of the qualities of actual experiences of dimensions of a greater magnitude has to do with completeness.

The topic is not discussed in the Fellowship of Friends aka Pathway to Presence because it is threatening to burton’s authoritarian control.

Completeness means one does not need a guru.

You say: “Whatever is known about one’s self can be known about another, as we can only know another person to the extent we know ourselves. This also applies to the many invisible laws that govern us; they are all within us so to know ourselves is to know many laws.”

Time and time again you have posted your rationalizations about burton’s illness using the cult logic that “ordinary” people cannot understand burton’s “extra-ordinary” motivation, or one person’s experience of “spirits” cannot be known by another. Yet here you contradict yourself with this statement, (a truth I happened to agree with) indicating your intellect’s lack of unity.

Your reason bends to the will of your delusional belief system.

Keep posting!

46. Yesri Baba - December 14, 2009

“I will say this about the Fourth State; a few moments in that state can confirm what it took someone years to understand, and that confirmation happens in a flash, without words, or tables in books.”

That’s wierd. It makes me want to high tail it to the rental yard to get a jumbo trash pump and 6″ hose to jet out everything I have ever known but the turd that knows it keeps plugging up the hose.

Ya know, the more you write this shit, the more I think SZannos might be right. You are a characature of all the stupid, distorted bullshit fantasy of the FOF.

47. Yesri Baba - December 14, 2009

apologies for the hyperbolation in the above post. My thinking process lacks…how should I say it…. precision.

48. Silentpurr - December 14, 2009

Sorry DC, but your “Level of Being” is showing.

49. Nancy - December 14, 2009

#42, Ellen

Beautifully expressed, Ellen.

I doubt Cardiac has actually experienced the state of unity that you are alluding to, based on his/her posts.

50. Silentpurr - December 14, 2009

Yes, DC has demonstrated, how the FOF has through the years has served as a kind of Cultural Club for a segment of it’s membership. A segment now may be in the majority. I doubt that any Heroic Efforts are made these days, (except for escaping).

51. Spock - December 14, 2009

44. Anon E. Mouse – December 14, 2009

“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant;
it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

Sounds like a Bush-ism. Reagan was truly ahead of his time.

—-
Regarding Cardiac… even illogical words can almost sound logical if you’re capable of persistent, unflappable denial. And even the most absurd system of ideas can sound “systematic” if you present it with numbers and an outline and terms with four or five syllables. This is one of the reasons people enjoy fiction, because authors are very good a presenting an imaginary world in such a way where we can suspend disbelief and enjoy the ride.

The Fellowship of Friends is built on that. Unfortunately it goes a step further and creates a reality with real consequences. People are caught in this weird no-man’s land of belief and can’t see that it’s based on fiction, and even believe that what the believe is not belief:

– The gods are guiding us, and guiding us only.
– Civilization will end in 2006.
– Those who leave the school will go to Hell.
– People are sleeping machines with no possibilities.
– If you have sex with the guru, you will receive favorable treatment from the gods.
– And more…

Don’t know about y’all but it sounds a lot like a novel to me.

Cardiac knows that. He/she/it is just helping develop the story and trying to keep the “readers” (followers) coming back for more — not that very many people are really persuaded. But it’s a business where the top player (or players) receive real money and are provided a cushy way of life that strokes their egos, so someone needs to keep telling the story…

“The Fourth State of Consciousness…”

Sometimes I’m angry at Burton and many who came before him for how they’ve used these ideas to scam people, but other times I’m truly amazed at the skill in which they’ve applied them for their own selfish motives.

52. Anon E. Mouse - December 14, 2009

Pickfair Hollywood, California – Wednesday evening June 1, 1932
“After dinner, Baba got up to leave three times, but Mary Pickford would not allow him to go. Finally, when he stood up, all surrounded him. Dictating from his alphabet board, he continued to converse with them while standing. After a few minutes, his roving glance fell on a young lady standing isolated at the far end of the room with her back to him. Baba beckoned for her and when his summons was relayed, she turned her face toward him but remained aloof. She was called again. Slowly coming forward, she stopped at a distance. Norina [Machiavelli] told her, ‘Come and shake hands with Baba, child.’ The young lady remained reserved, and Elizabeth [Patterson] said to her, ‘Why are you afraid, dear? Come nearer and meet Baba.’
She asked, ‘How can I touch him?’
‘Why not?’ Norina replied. ‘All can meet Baba.’
This brought tears to here eyes, and she pitiably asked, ‘But I am a sinner! How can I touch a holy being like him?’
Baba then went to her, and passed his hand over her head and shoulders. She started weeping, and Baba gestured to her, ‘I am the purest of the pure. I can purify the worst sinner. You have understood your mistakes and acknowledged them faithfully in the presence of others, and so you are forgiven. This penance from the depths of your heart is adequate, and you are now cleansed. Now, don’t fear in the least and don’t repeat your past mistakes. I give you my blessings!’ The girl burst into tears, and Baba lovingly embraced her. The tears which Baba had drawn from her heart wiped out all her sins.”
First step: Understand your mistakes.

53. Spock - December 14, 2009

Yep. It’s good to differentiate guilt, shame, and regret vs. conscience. Guilt, shame, and regret are heavier energies that disallow anything positive going forward. They anchor you to the past. We all experience them, but good to put them to rest as soon as possible.

Conscience is more akin to love. It’s a lighter energy — it enables you to show compassion, and most importantly it allows you to keep going… Conscience learns from the past (“understand your mistakes”) but also allows you do something positive and proactive right now, and in the future. It leaves the past behind without ignoring the lessons learned from past mistakes.

Hopefully, Meher Baba didn’t actually try to bestow any “blessings” upon that woman in 1932, but instead helped her find a strength within herself. Hopefully that’s what happened.

One of the mistakes that I’ve learned from the FOF experience is that it’s much more important to tap into inner strength, and to trust that profoundly. And in the meantime, it’s also crucial that I don’t buy into the Pretend Blessings of a charlatan. Many, many people in this world offer their blessings – we generally don’t see them as such, especially when you spend your days with a group of people who call them “sleeping machines” and inferior.

“For all the day our eyes view things unrespected,” Shakespeare wrote.

54. Opus 111 - December 14, 2009

Anon 44 and 52

Are you trying to outdo dc playing the wiseacre?

It is OK to express yourself and make a worthwhile point, even if it is not borrowed from such as the great luminaries (R. Reagan, NOT) or Baba.

OTOH, if you intent was to annoy, mission accomplished!

55. Wouldnt You Like To Know - December 14, 2009

Success is the result of good judgement,
good judgement is a result of experience,
experience is often the result of bad judgement.
Anthony Robbins

Good judgment is usually the result of experience.
And experience is frequently the result of bad judgment.
But to learn from the experience of others requires those who have the experience to share the knowledge with those who follow.
Barry LePatner
(To Engineer is Human:
The Role of Failure
in Successful Design)

So, make as many mistakes as you can as fast as you can so that you have plenty of bad experiences to base your good judgement upon. Then be sure to tell as many people as you can about it as fast as you can so that we all may benefit thereby.

56. Spock - December 14, 2009

It is rather annoying… Anon Earl Mouse doesn’t want anyone to know where he’s coming from. He’s up to something, but who knows what.

By the way, regarding my comments about guilt and shame (since A. Earl Mouse brought up the topic without realizing it), Yahoo posted an interesting pop psychology article today called the “5 Behaviours of Manipulative People.” There’s a lot more than five, but interesting anyway as all five apply to Burton:

“Many of us like to think the best of people. We like to think that they shoot straight and are forthright in their intentions. We also like to believe that they will ask for what they want and not resort to crazy tactics to get it. Unfortunately, however, there are times when we come across those who will do whatever it takes to get what they want…including manipulation. Being manipulated never feels good, but the worst part of manipulation is that often, we don’t even realize that it is happening. Here are a few ways to know if someone is trying to manipulate you:

1. Buttering You Up: To get their way, manipulators will often make you feel good so that they can then ask you to do something that they want. The person may first compliment you or tell you what a wonderful job you did on something. Making you feel good will, in their mind, make it difficult for you to say no…after all, you wouldn’t want to disappoint them or give them reason to think you didn’t deserve the compliment in the first place. What you can do: Return the compliments and the niceties before saying no.

2. Guilt: This doesn’t only pertain to Catholics and Jewish Mothers; guilt trips have been a successful manipulation tactic for centuries. The saddest part of this strategy is that the victims of this tactic succumb to the manipulators’ demands because they feel they HAVE to, not because they WANT to. In personal relationships, this sets up a co-dependency that is extremely unhealthy. What you can do: Ask the individual if they want you to do something because you have to or because you want to. If they say they want you to want to do it, tell them that you don’t and that they are trying to force you into something you don’t feel comfortable with.

3. Broken Record: Probably the most obvious of formats is the broken record tactic. If a person asks you enough or pushes their agenda enough…constantly repeating the question or request over and over again…in slightly different ways, the victim will inevitably give in and give them what they want. Oye! What you can do: Ask the individual what they don’t understand about the word “no.” Tell them that asking you over and over again isn’t going to change anything and that they are inappropriately over-stepping boundaries.

4. Selective Memory: This one gets me the most. You swear you have a conversation about a plan and everyone is on the same page, and then one day, the manipulator pretends to remember the conversation completely differently, if at all. What you can do: Record your conversations…seriously! Okay, maybe not. At least have a witness that you can count on to back you up if the person pulls this shenanigan. Call them out on the fact that they conveniently change the game to fit their needs.

5. Bullying: If a person doesn’t get their way, they make you out to look or feel like the bad guy…like you are the wrong one. What you can do: Be firm and tell them that their bullying tactics are inappropriate and unacceptable.

Keep your eyes open for these behaviors and continue to stand your ground to ensure that you aren’t a victim of manipulation.”

57. Silentpurr - December 15, 2009

DC, I remember the last thing Robert said to me. He told me over the telephone, that the antique lace pillow I was restoring for him was really for me and that I could keep it, because I would need it. I had repaired several of those for him over the years but didn’t realize that he used them as a negative. I imagined that he enjoyed the beautiful and intricately made works of art as they represented the ‘infant SELF’. Why would RB need to curse people when they leave? He is the one who broached the trust. What was he expecting? Unconditional Love?

58. Spock - December 15, 2009

Silentpurr,

That’s yet another example of a parting shot from Burton.

What’s with that?! Aren’t parting shots rather un-Conscious Being like? And a bit immature?

And yet… story after story.

Jim, Bones, Scottie, and I encountered a “god” in one of our Star Trek episodes from the 60s. A wrathful and mysterious being on some distant planet was causing pain and fear to all who disobeyed him. At the end of the episode it turned out the “god” was actually a child pretending to be a god… and abusing his powers.

Only difference is that — truthfully — Burton only has power over any of us that we allow him to have.

59. veramente - December 15, 2009

57 silentpurr

Why would RB need to curse people when they leave? He is the one who broached the trust. What was he expecting? Unconditional Love?
————————————————–
so right on!
this is an excellent thought for anyone who is sitting on the fence.
Robert Burton IS the one who broached your trust.
Go! Leave!

60. Tatyana - December 15, 2009

Wouldnt You Like To Know

“Do you think if REB could get his own penis to go into his own anus and/or his own mouth, it would solve all this problem of bothering others for want of sex and sex energy?”

No. Uranus is only one part of the story. Another one is the fact that all that is in the 8th house (responsible for sex/occult/death/money etc). Often people with the planet in the 8th house have difficulties to understand boundaries between ‘your’ and ‘mine’. And actually use more “your” as a resource.

I found recently a blog of people who have something in 8th house. Interesting read… how people are discovering and working with their tendencies, when Robert takes all that for Higher Consciousness!

61. X-ray - December 15, 2009

38. Daily Cardiac – December 14, 2009

Nancy – #28:

The Fourth State of consciousness, which I’ve had glimpses of, is just the icing on the cake. The Third State is more than sufficient for processing higher truths. Man is a cosmos, when he or she enters a state of self consciousness much can be understood about reality in a larger sense.

What an unbelievable idiot you Daily Crap.

62. X-ray - December 15, 2009

‘which I’ve had glimpses of’

the only glimpses you can have in FOF, is glimpsing at your ‘teacher’ sucking dicks, while other ‘friends’ are urinating and shitting on him.

63. Daily Cardiac - December 15, 2009

Ames – 39:

I don’t disagree with anything you write in 39 about laws. Obviously I don’t agree with your characterizations of RB’s motives, etc.

Otherwise, you seem to assume that a school teacher / counselor and a student (assuming they are of age) cannot have consensual sex. I assume from your wording that you think if teachers have sexual relations with students they are breaking some moral code or law. But this is true only if the sex is not consensual. It happens all the time that students and teachers have sex, many times they even end up marrying. And there is nothing immoral or unjust about it if it’s consensual and the student is of age. Just because one individual is in the role of authority figure does not mean a trust has been breached.

Ames – “And this is not because priests and gurus are somehow beyond suspicion. Far from it. It is because in the U.S.A. the Constitution forbids the state mixing itself up in religion; there is a separation between church and state.”

Another question for you is: Why do you think our forefathers made distinctions between Church and State? Was it possibly because they understood that spiritual practices and principles do not fit neatly into the same mold as is found in the physical / material world? And that they were not qualified to judge all actions strictly on the basis of appearance?

64. Panoritsa - December 15, 2009

DC.

What do you know about the relationship teacher/student-pupil? I am a teacher and have worked at college/university/high school. A few weeks ago a colleague was fired and was taken to court because of consensual relationship with an adult student. There was a lot of lying involved and most students were shocked and shaken about it.

All those years of working with adolescents and young adults and having come across those types of relationships I have seen only harm. There are a few cases of people who get married eventually. And there is nothing wrong about falling in love with your teacher or student or counselor (most professionals are well trained to deal with projection of Love from people who are in a healing process…).

But what Robert Burton has been doing is not just one or two consensual relationships with one or two of his “students.” Do you know about it? Because, again the issue here is that a “spiritual teacher” advertises his “school of awakening” as the place where art and literature meet the Fourth Way and the Gods protect it. What is not told is that the same teacher has had all his possible sick sexual fantasies performed on hundreds of his male heterosexual “students.” He justifies his sexual needs as what C-influence wants.

The issue with Robert Burton’s sexual relationships with his “students” has nothing to do with the “immoral” or not relationship of any given teacher with any other given student…

65. Crouching Tiger - December 15, 2009

“Why do you think our forefathers made distinctions between Church and State? Was it possibly because they understood that spiritual practices and principles do not fit neatly into the same mold as is found in the physical / material world?”

Why do you think your forefathers got it so wrong? The division in state and church is not one that appeared for the Sufis in Egypt, and the Mesopotamian basin. Leaders in one realm were frequently leaders in the other.

And where does the popular Fellowship slogan “As above, so below” fit into your division of spirit and matter? What happens in the world of spirit is exactly mirrored in the external world of action and behaviour. A confusion of purposes in the teacher creates a crisis of bewilderment several times larger in the student who has placed his trust in that teacher.

Your use of the word ‘consensual’ is a bit of a trick. This is not the kind of relationship that both parties enter into willingly from the start, with eyes wide open. It’s a situation in which the [heterosexual] student is maneuvered into a corner by a homosexual man who wants to see himself as ‘a goddess in man’s body’. The chances of them saying ‘No’ have to be greatly [and intentionally] reduced because of the extent of the delusion. There is no court of appeal, or support network which encourages them to even see it as a choice.

The cards have to be stacked in Burton’s favour to a degree that makes the word ‘consensual’ meaningless. The paralysis that occurs as the student struggles with the contradictory sense of ‘a teacher of presence’ who wants perform oral sex on him at that moment, affords Burton the opportunity he needs to succeed. This is not the same as a student and teacher recognising a mutual attraction right from the start. On the scale that Burton operates, it is more like a mass harvesting.

I worked in a University environment, and student-teacher relations are a very sensitive issue. They are even more sensitive at school level, when a student is below the age of sexual consent. There are very strict rules and precautions governing these relations, although not everyone respects them. There clearly are some mutual attractions, but the majority cause great problems because the [teaching] offenders are serial offenders.

Once you identify someone as a teacher and establish trust in that fact, it makes you more vulnerable to any and all of their suggestions, whether they are related to the subject they’re teaching or not. A serial offender like Burton is experienced in manipulating a trust he knows will be there.

The key is transparency. If Burton’s tastes in heterosexual men were advertised as a teaching tool or a part of the Fellowship program from the beginning, no-one could have any complaints about being approached by him. It would enable them to say ‘No’ and feel confident about it. It would be truly consensual. But the connection between the outside – a school of presence – and the inside – Burton’s sexual motives – is comprehensively hidden because he knows the two desires are contradictory. What is actually going on below has no agreement with what is stated above.

But of course this transparency will never happen. Burton knows that the harvest would be drastically reduced, or there might even be a famine.

66. Panoritsa - December 15, 2009

Yes, transparency is the key. Thanks Tiger…

Many current members I know think that all the talk about Robert’s sexual life is gossip and bitterness coming from ex-members. They believe and want to believe (the why is another subject…) that all is lies.

If the Fellowship had been clear and advertised that one of the “teaching tools” was that the “teacher” has sex with individuals , then we would have been talking something else (or probably not taking at all…). The choice would have been presented to accept such a teaching and live with the consequences (or even enjoy it, since there are people who have no problem with abuse and sexual perversity… fine for them!) or not join the Fellowship because it hadn’t been exactly the ‘spiritual environment” one was looking for.

There is no choice you see. You are drawn into the Cult and the manipulation starts with the older students selling the new students their illusions, lies and wishful thinking. Robert hardly needs to do anything. The rest of the Fellowship takes care that the brainwashing continues….

67. Anon E. Mouse - December 15, 2009

You can read my posts, or not, for annoyance.
You can read DC posts, or not, for enlightenment.
You still have a choice.
I found it tiring, so I quoted a couple of ideas I liked, simply to say something slightly different. Sorry if you don’t like the poignant or the clever.
A friendly FU Opie.

68. Ill Never Tell - December 15, 2009

Dear FoF Bloggers,
Can’t you see that there is no point in dialog with DC. DC is Frankenstein’s Monster; larger than life, constructed out of dead body parts mostly stolen from grave sites and morgues, jolted back into a living orgasm by lightening bolt. One sad mistake was made, a criminal brain was used by accident or fate. This is science fiction turned real where the gruesome truth is: playing God has its negative CON-SEQUENCES.
Here is a picture of DC:
http://bit.ly/4zgMno
Sure does look like he is remembering himself or maybe he is just asleep.

69. Ill Never Tell - December 15, 2009

Oooops! sorry, the above sentence should be:
‘DC is Frankenstein’s Monster; larger than life, constructed out of dead body parts mostly stolen from grave sites and morgues, jolted back into a living organism by lightening bolt.

70. Ames Gilbert - December 15, 2009

DC (#87-38),
It is quite obvious that you and I are inhabiting separate universes, so I need further education about yours. Please tell me what state you have to be in to interpret messages about rhino poops across fifteen centuries, and more about how your version of the third and fourth states somehow bypasses empathy, conscience, and compassion.
In your post 87-63 you are simply being lazy when you ask me to tell you why there is a clause in the Constitution (First Amendment) that precludes mixing of state and church business. You can google the question and find literally millions of hits. I am willing to bet you will find none of them support your proposal. Even better, you can find the records that the Founders themselves left as they argued their positions; they spent a great deal of time thrashing out these questions, left hundreds of letters and other records, and it is easy to follow their thinking as it progressed.

If you care to look at some of the laws I pointed you to, you will find that the majority of them state some equivalent to the following: There is no basis for consent if the psychological power is unequal; counselor–client/supplicant relationships are in of themselves, inherently unequal; therefore, apparent consent is no consent, and cannot be a defense.
Do you get it now? Any claim of consent has no basis under these laws. In the area of high school education, for example, a teacher and his or her pupil cannot have a consensual sexual relationship. Period. The only argument the court allows is, can the alleged sexual interaction be proved or not. In the case of adults in a university setting, if local laws do not apply, then you will find that most often the institutions themselves will have codes of conduct that do apply; the codes are in place because the institution recognizes the inequality of power between teacher and student, and that risk of harm vastly outweighs any possible good, even when the participants are adults.
DC, of course people are attracted to each other and fall in love in all sorts of circumstances. Are you claiming this is the case with Burton and his partners? No, I didn’t think so, just another red herring. Burton lusts for the attraction of the hour, he makes arrangements to slake his lust, then he titillates the nerve endings in his anus and penis while savoring his power. End of story, as far as he is concerned, time to plan the next installment.
I also have heard of a few cases where an illicit teacher–high school student relationship ends in marriage after the teacher has completed his or her punishment. This is actually very rare (less than a half–a–dozen cases in the last fifteen years that I can find in the U.S.), and certainly would not justify the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the student suffers harm to one degree or another. That is why the laws are made, and why the teacher is usually barred from the profession and placed in a permanent sex register.

You see it as fortunate and I see it as unfortunate that this blog is just about the only public warning available about Robert Earl Burton. I and others believe that Robert Earl Burton is not only a spiritual scam artist, but also a professional sexual predator, and his prey is the younger heterosexual component of the church he has invented. I’m sure your next suggestion will be that (your version of) C–Influence arranged for the Founders to come up with the First Amendment simply to protect Burton as he seeks to quench his insatiable desires, 218 odd years later.

71. WhaleRider - December 15, 2009

Fellowship Makes Revealing Changes

Oregon House (URP!)-Bowing to repeated calls for more transparency, the Fellowship of Friends, Inc. aka Pathway to Presence, a California pseudo-religious corporation, has announced a revealing change in the required attire of young, attractive male followers in the group.

Effective today, all men in the cult between the ages of 18 and 33 must wear cellophane pants and underwear.

Daniella Cardiac, dickish spokesfollower for the group made the following statement, “This is going to make our leader’s motivations clear to the world,” she said, “It creates more presence for everyone!”

One young male follower approached at the Oregon House Post Office refused to comment, although it was readily apparent that the skin of his buttocks already had a rosy pinkish color due to such excessive exposure to the sun.

Another long time female follower dressed in black quietly made this comment from behind her burka and under the condition that her name remained anonymous, “Frankly, I preferred the good old days when Burton was in the closet. All this transparency makes it almost impossible for me to divide my attention. I just pray that next lifetime I will have a penis so that I can awaken.”

72. Silentpurr - December 15, 2009

And essence is a childlike state.

73. 411 - December 15, 2009

Robert must really disregard woman who are in the Fellowship Of Friends. He certainly has not extended his preferred method for awakening his students to them. I thought the reason that he convinces the heterosexual men in his fold to submit to his will is so they can achieve advancement in their evolution? Is the real reason because he has a strong sexual desire to feel a young man’s erect penis in his mouth? Why wouldn’t robert take a nice 67 year old woman (someone closer to his age- what the fuck bob, try it!) and convince her to have anal sex, even though she’s married and has no desire for anal sex. Couldn’t this also help her to awaken? Certainly it would be a much quicker method for awakening then washing wine glasses in the Academy kitchen for 3 hours a night.
In fact I bet if bob had sex with a 67 year old woman it might even bring him to the level of a man #8.

The FOFion entry (#36) seems quite right. He’s just waiting for all the fence-sitters to leave and then real party is going to start.

74. arthur - December 15, 2009

Robert Earl Burton is a real Slicker (A clever, shifty person). It’s provable, he has 38 years of successes.

First he starts out with his one “teacher” a flam-flam artist himself who demotes him to the curb for eye-“balling” fellow male students.

Somehow he makes his way to the Bay Area of California studies to become a primary school teacher (but by the Grace of C-Influence) go those lucky students or maybe some werent so lucky?

Then one day while reading “In Search” by Ouspensky he meets a woman who was charmed. In an all night restaurant where else?
It had to be Ouspensky because he claimed never to have read Gurdjieff.

He has a remarkable memory being College Educated and all. A lot of knowledge stored up (but little understanding)? He must have read about “Infra-sex” and how sex should not be touched by negativity. But, he’s a real slicker.

Now he’s claiming to be chaste or something like that. And, so the coffee shop “teaching” grows with better “angles” of thought coming from different voices. He records it all and reuses that as his original teaching.

The slicker let his attendents do the teaching while he smiles like a Cheshire cat. He’s good one.

Not too far back a poster noted that a poor “Lunar” was having a time setting a table. “If” and all statements starting with “if” are lies right? What if that Lunar was aware (awake) to his own shortcomings? What does that make old Slicker giggling and watching?

A Chucklehead.

75. fofblogmoderator - December 15, 2009

Nigel- You are back in.

76. Silentpurr - December 15, 2009

And a Cheeky Chucklehead at that! As a woman, I mistook his lustlacking to be a manifestation of his Supreme Saintliness, Worlds 12 or 6, at least……

77. Daily Cardiac - December 15, 2009

Crouching Tiger – 65:

“Why do you think your forefathers got it so wrong? The division in state and church is not one that appeared for the Sufis in Egypt, and the Mesopotamian basin. Leaders in one realm were frequently leaders in the other.”

That’s true; possibly because they were part of a conscious movement. It didn’t and hasn’t worked very well for the Ayatollahs of Iran and Taliban of Afghanistan.

78. Spock - December 15, 2009

We’re often talking about Burton’s motives, but sometimes I wonder about the motives of his closest enablers, or his wannabe closest enablers (Cardiac and others).

Any chance that many of them are waiting around to swoop in on the remaining assets of the FOF once Burton dies? Or at least pull from the rubble whatever cool stuff they can find?

I’m not suggesting they’d even come close to succeeding, but maybe that explains the flattery and apparent blindness.

I say “apparent” blindness, because I don’t believe they are blind. They know what Burton is about. They know the damage he does. They know the insanity of it all.

It reminds me of a family waiting for their rich, senile father to pass away, with everyone stroking his ego and trying to gain his good graces while they plot a way to grab the money, or his house, or whatever — maybe it’s just attention they’ll be grabbing for. Forget the discussion of what’s legal and what might actually happen — I’m sensing this is where many of these people are coming from.

But keep in mind: It wasn’t Louis XIV who was executed in the public square. It was those who inherited the throne after him… Note of caution.

79. Dr. Pangloss - December 16, 2009

78. Spock

Louis XVI was the one who got to ride the guillotine. Louis XIV “The Sun King” set the standard for gaudy extravagance that is Versailles.
Horse-mouth Bob, really wants to be Louis XIV. One only has to look at his poofter taste in decorative antiques and gilded flying angels.

“It reminds me of a family waiting for their rich, senile father to pass away, with everyone stroking his ego and trying to gain his good graces while they plot a way to grab the money, or his house, or whatever —”

Yep, you got that right. All the longtime losers who face a not so distant future as applicants for welfare assistance from the great county of Yuba are no doubt looking to jack up the income from Pathways To Presence in order to raise their salaries above poverty level status once Bob croaks. As someone has already written here, The Church of Scientology set the standard once Sci-Fi writer Hubbard started his dirt-nap.

80. Daily Cardiac - December 16, 2009

Ames – 70:

“In your post 87-63 you are simply being lazy when you ask me to tell you why there is a clause in the Constitution (First Amendment) that precludes mixing of state and church business. You can google the question and find literally millions of hits.”

It has nothing to do with being lazy; I have thought about why they did it, I just wondered if you’ve thought about it.

In this particular thread between you and I there are two distinct aspects in play. What I see with you and most recently with Panoritsa, and Crouching Tiger is on the the one hand holding RB up to modern civil or federal laws, or national codes of morality when it is convenient, all the while dismissing the notion that spiritual laws might supersede or run counter to those same laws or codes. Then when it is convenient to your position you bring the spiritual laws into the equation; a classic example being Crouching Tiger’s post 65.

My position is this; I do believe all laws stem from Spiritual laws (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.) But like many things, what starts out pure becomes impure over time. Now we have echos of spiritual laws in our daily lives and we also have departed from those laws in some cases and have instituted laws that actually run counter to the spirit and place the material before the spirit.

I only bring up man’s laws, i.e. civil or state or federal, to point out that even by those laws RB has not failed to meet the standards.

By man’s law consent is held above all. You can argue that RB has a distinct advantage being in a position of authority but the fact is man’s law, your laws, do not back you up.

Panoritsa cites “rules” and not laws. Any organization can institute rules of behavior which employees or students need to follow, like dress codes, etc. One of those rules might be if a teacher has sex with a student, regardless of age, they are liable to be terminated. But there is no official law I know of that would prosecute a teacher for having consensual sex with a student of legal age. Actually prosecuting such a case would be against the law.

In a very ordinary sense if you use as the example a typical contract – a salesman can misrepresent a product, outright lie about it, but if you sign a contract to buy it you are essentially saying I have considered the fact the salesman might be lying but I’ll take a chance and buy it anyway.

If you have no concrete proof of misrepresentation it’s your word against his. Good luck.

Laws are instituted in this way for a reason. The reason being to protect the salesmen also; not the lying salesman but the truthful one – who could do everything wright but be accused of wrongdoing by anyone who reneges on a done deal.

Once a person consents to something they basically muddy up the waters so much that no one knows what transpired and so the contract, the consent form, takes precedence over all else.

With regard to the claims of ex students that RB coerced individuals to have sex we don’t have have proof one way or another, we just have blog entries, mostly from anonymous sources. Even man’s laws do not recognize that as proof, or the beginning of proof.

Ex students, who have already decided that RB is a charlatan, or someone corrupt, are perfectly willing to assume the worst about any story heard, assume that he is automatically in the wrong.

It’s fine of you want to do that but I’m saying the tendency to do that stems from a predisposed believe on your part; a belief which many others with the same facts before them do not share.

As an aside; I was a classmate with a girl in high school who married a teacher of the same school; it hardly made a ripple in those days, a few decades ago. Now the world is much more politically correct, much more overly sensitive to those things. In one of the most populated countries of the world it is common for parents to arrange marriages with daughters as young as 11 or 12 to men much older. Usually such marriages are carried out according to religious beliefs. In America that might be subject to breaking the law.

If RB, or for that matter anyone else, breaks or has broken any spiritual laws he will be judged in the world of spirit, not by you, me, or any other living being.

If he breaks or has broken any man made laws he is no different than anyone else, and would have to answer for that.

81. Spock - December 16, 2009

daily shill: I tend to skim past your posts because it’s like listending to a speech by George W. Bush or listening to the bombastic Rush Limbaugh (I just change the station or turn off the radio)… but this sentence jumped out at me:

“Ex students, who have already decided that RB is a charlatan, or someone corrupt, are perfectly willing to assume the worst about any story heard, assume that he is automatically in the wrong.”

Actually, what I’ve found is just the opposite. People — at first anyway — tend to think the best about Burton, and it’s this tendency that gives him his power in the FOF. My suspicions about Burton have almost always fallen short. e.g., what I know now, is MUCH worse than what I suspected years ago, and I’m guessing this is true for a lot of people.

So, that also makes me wonder what the next revelation will be. I suspect at this point that we’ve only touched the surface on the blog and on the GF site — that there’s more that we haven’t heard yet.

82. Tatyana - December 16, 2009

I wonder if anybody knows what official psychologists think of Ouspensky’s Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution.

I am in a new role these days: my 16 y.o. is developing questions about psychology. Psychology, Sientology, Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution… FOF?

83. Tatyana - December 16, 2009

What bugs me is that in US things like Scientology can exist. It is like FOF on steroids. The only reason they are having a hard time is because of ex-members. There are SO MANY EX-MEMBERS complaining and telling the same things over and over that it becomes evident that it is not just lies of a group of criminals.

My daughter went to the meeting! OMG! the first thing they do is the Personality Test, which gives the results as “clinically depressed” or “needs an urgent help” and after that a person (16 years old!) is given a suggestion to buy a few programs that will help with the depression (my daughter does not have a depression!)

Where are the laws that can protect a young person from being abused by a fraud organization as such? They claim to be not a religion yet they have a status of “church”. WTF? Not religion – the SCIENCE, except it is a “science FICTION”.

Can FOF get a status of “religion fiction” and still be a “church”?

Bloggers, don’t be shy, keeps telling your stories.

84. James Mclemore - December 16, 2009

DC wrote……….

“If RB, or for that matter anyone else, breaks or has broken any spiritual laws he will be judged in the world of spirit, not by you, me, or any other living being.”

Since there is only the infinite present moment and thus perhaps no future time for Burton to be judged in, and since everything that IS, is here right NOW, world of spirit and all; I am going to go way out on a limb here DC, and say,
“I’m sorry, but you are too late. The judgment is already happening right here and now, and it is not looking good for your guy.”

85. James Mclemore - December 16, 2009

deleted by request

86. X-ray - December 16, 2009

Tatyana,
Your daughter getting into trouble.
Scientology more dangerous than FOF, and it runs by Hollywood celebrities, with whom association harder to resist.

87. Ames Gilbert - December 16, 2009

No, DC, it is you are trying to have it both ways (#87-80). You go on and on about theoretical spiritual laws about which you can know nothing, yet invoke the failure of man–made laws to bring Burton to justice as proof that he has done nothing wrong.
You were the one to bring up man–made laws lo! these many moons ago when you started your uninformed nonsense about ‘due process’, and continue, despite numerous examples to the contrary, to claim that consent supercedes all. Now you want us to choose. Fine, I choose the only spiritual guidance to what is right and wrong that I know about, conscience. But you and Burton say, “ Conscience is just a collection of ‘I’s; anyone accumulating too much should leave the school”. So, that just leaves your opinions and Burton’s opinions about spirituality, and obviously I place zero stock in those. I studied them for a very long time, and concluded they are complete, random, unverifiable, shifting rubbish, solely designed to produce awe or fear in the sheep.

You failed to get the point I was making when I was talking about the unique perspective on separation between state and church that exists in this country. I’ll restate it—in almost every country except the U.S.A., Burton would have been put away a long time ago. So, I certainly agree he lucked out when he set up his sexual predator lifestyle over here.

DC, the snow here has melted, I have a lot of things to catch up on, and I’ve devoted much time to your education. This ends today. You graduate, ready or not. Thanks for making a public record of your beliefs available. I’m sure you feel you have scored big for the Fellowship of Friends as you represent them so faithfully and well on these blog pages. Of course, I feel you have shown yourself as a shallow and callous person, but also certainly agree you represent the Fellowship faithfully and well. Give the guy/gal a medal!

P.S. I apologize for misrepresenting Burton. I know his actual claim is that he can interpret rhino poops across 150 centuries, rather than the mere 15 centuries I spoke of in post #70. I’m sure this is an immortal insult to a 900 million year old goddess trapped in a man’s body, but the good news is that I’m already consigned to become food for the moon —according to him—anyway. At least I’ll have decent company!

88. Crouching Tiger - December 16, 2009

“In a very ordinary sense if you use as the example a typical contract – a salesman can misrepresent a product, outright lie about it, but if you sign a contract to buy it you are essentially saying I have considered the fact the salesman might be lying but I’ll take a chance and buy it anyway.

If you have no concrete proof of misrepresentation it’s your word against his. Good luck.”

I don’t feel it’s any accident that you couch your defence of Burton’s actions in just these terms. The point I made earlier about transparency is highly relevant when you’re talking about a spiritual teacher as a salesman selling his wares. The Fellowship of Friends is based on the principle of selling itself and what it has to offer, because it has become [and probably always was] a money-based institution. It advertises aggressively [bookmarking etc] and actively conceals what would put most sensible people off – like Burton’s sexual predilections.

When you’re talking about Burton as a salesman, and prospective students as entering into a contract of some kind with the fellowship when they enter, what laws are you [and Burton] operating under? As far as spiritual laws go, it’s the lowest common denominator, that of a garden variety confidence trickster. You are not asking of your leader any kind of transparency in which the outside represents the inside, in which the advertised teaching includes all important elements of the program. Burton’s sexual needs are an active part of the program, because he claims that sex with him will advance a student’s evolution. That’s his MO.

I’ve heard Burton defended this way countless times, even by GH. When push comes to shove, it’s not about him being under different more spiritual laws at all, it’s “if he’s getting what he wants by whatever means possible, then good luck to him”. The laws of a common salesman or confidence trickster.

The fact that you can alternate between one and the other so easily should tell you something about yourself too. The fact that you don’t really have any idea of the ‘spiritual laws’ you suppose Burton to be under.

When it comes down to it, it’s nothing more than Smash ‘n Grab, with a bit more subtlety. If you want your teacher to become anything more than a dodgy salesman, you should ask him firstly to become more honest, by advertising all that the Fellowship contains, especially for attractive young heterosexual males. Let him step forward and unveil ALL his ‘teaching’ practices so that prospective students can make an informed choice BEFORE they enter and start paying.

89. Yesri Baba - December 16, 2009

87 Ames Gilbert

Meet ya in the Sea of Tranquility.

90. Wouldnt You Like To Know - December 16, 2009

78. Spock:
‘Any chance that many of them are waiting around to swoop in on the remaining assets of the FOF once Burton dies? Or at least pull from the rubble whatever cool stuff they can find?’

‘Forget the discussion of what’s legal and what might actually happen. . .’

Leave that to AG who fancies himself as heir-apparent to control the wealth.

BTW, 53. Spock:
‘“For all the day our eyes view things unrespected,” Shakespeare wrote.’

Thanks for the prompt.
Here is a mind meld for you:

When most I wink,
then do mine eyes best see,
For all the day
they view things unrespected;
But when I sleep,
in dreams they look on Thee,
And darkly bright
are bright in dark directed.
Then Thou, Whose shadow
shadows doth make bright,
How would Thy shadow’s form
form happy show
To the clear day
with Thy much clearer light,
When to unseeing eyes
Thy shade shines so!?
How would, I say,
mine eyes be blesséd made
By looking on Thee
in the living day,
When in dead night
Thy fair imperfect shade
Through heavy sleep
on sightless eyes doth stay!?
All days are nights
to see till I see Thee,
And nights bright days
when dreams do show Thee me.

Sonnet 43
Wm. Shakespeare

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

80. Daily Cardiac:
‘But like many things, what starts out pure becomes impure over time.’

Just like Arkansas BoB of Fellowship of Friends (FoF) – Pathway to Presence (PtP) – projects the image of pure, as the newly fallen snow, with celibacy, no sex outside marriage, and ban on homosexuality, all the while behind the scenes he is doing the opposite.
(I suppose that’s spiritual.) Finally, he has to admit to all of it when it became impossible to keep it secret – so NEVER ‘starts out pure becomes impure over time;’ it was impure all along and Arkansas BoB was faking it.

‘If RB, or for that matter anyone else, breaks or has broken any spiritual laws he will be judged in the world of spirit, not by you, me, or any other living being.’

That certainly will come to pass, if you think it’s not happening right now. Just picture that scene from The Egyptian Book of the Dead (Papyrus of Ani), referred to as: Journey Forth by Day around FoF, where, in the Judgement Hall of Osiris, the initial further-progress test is made by comparing the weight of the (dead) supplicant’s heart (emblematic of conscience) to that weight of a feather (emblematic of truth). I wonder how Arkansas BoB’s fate turns out? BTW, I do not care to know, that is not of importance. What is important to know is: How your own heart weighs. Good luck DC.

91. Anon E. Mouse - December 16, 2009

To be perfectly clear, Mr. Spock, (since you sort of asked):
I have no:
ulterior motives,
altruistic agenda,
ax to grind,
wisdom to impart;

(This space for comical interlude or anti-cult advertising)

Nor any particular expectation of any particular results, reactions or responses.
‘Nuff said? Yours Truly, Abbey Normal
PS My middle name is not Earl.

92. Anon E. Mouse - December 16, 2009

And you, Opus 111, should stop sulking, climb off your high horse and show us how to do a proper posting.

93. brucelevy - December 16, 2009

94. WhaleRider - December 16, 2009

Daily Cardiac:

The whole idea of personal evolution is to develop oneself to be subject to less “laws” rather than more, right?

In other words, when one’s conscience is in place, one has the capacity to place a principal before one’s self-interest. Then one is freed from being concerned about adhering to laws such as not stealing something that didn’t belong to one, because one wouldn’t as a matter of principle and integrity, despite the obvious self gain. This is a win-win situation for all involved.

When you make the distinction between federal laws and so-called spiritual laws, you are creating more laws to live by, not less, i.e. no meat on Fridays, can’t work on the Sabbath, can’t use contraception, no eating pork, can’t show your teeth when you smile, must let your spiritual leader suck your dick or your husband’s, etc.

In fact, so-called spiritual laws have been traditionally conceived and enforced by spiritual dictators who rule for life, while federal laws are conceived and enforced by temporarily elected officials. This is why democracy was born: to foster the principle of personal freedom before the self-serving interests of individuals who create rules of membership that pave the wave to paradaise for their particular religion, claiming to be more equal than others either by birth or Immaculate Conception.

Now granted, from what I remember the fourth way included the principle of removing of oneself from one particular law only, the law of accident, and placing oneself in an intentional environment of conscious influence presumably until one developed a “conscious” will instead of a “mechanical” will. How long that took was left to the indvidual as matter of principle and not the leader.

As far as I can tell, in practice the fourth way groups that sprung up over the years were short lived and for a good reason; Ouspensky himself advocated upon his deathbed to “abandon the system”.

This indicates to me that these groups did not perpetuate themselves (ad nausem) because of some flaw, but ended before or as they became institutionalized and turned into their opposites, such as the Fellowship of Friends aka Pathway to Presence has…burton wins, always coming out on top, while others lose.

Placing oneself under the influence of another for the principle of furthering one’s development, such as in the case of sending our children to public school, is and should only be a temporary measure until the individual can think and act for themselves in a healthy manner that benefits both the individual and society, again a win-win situation.

The reason for this is outlined in the “Guru Papers”: humans who seek unrestricted power over others will tend to claim to act for the common good in the beginning but will eventually act out of a veiled self-interest.

This is why our American forefathers had the wisdom to make our leaders elected for a set amount of time in our system of government instead of the mantle of power being passed down among a group of incestuous family relatives as in a monarchy or as in a self-appointed cult leader such as yours.

It is foolish to believe that adhering to so-called spiritual laws makes one exempt from federal laws. As an extreme example, this is the same justification that some criminals use to murder doctors who perform abortions…and the same justification that you and your cult leader use to sexually, emotionally, and financially abuse so many of his followers.

…yet another reason to drain the victim pool.

95. arthur - December 16, 2009

If you like the touch of a woman or like to touch a woman, and you like double cheese, double meat burgers with grease running through your van dyke, and you like hearing Willy Nelson singing “On the Road Again” because it reminds you of your free spirit, then The Fellowship of Friends/ Pathway to Presence maybe the wrong highway rest stop for you.

Over there they like “picky” sort of things. Like a whole array of knives, forks and spoons surrounding one setting of porcelain dinnerware. They like reading poems and drinking wine. The boys like the boys and the women are the furniture with knick knacks. They are to be sit upon and not laid upon.

After dinner at the roadside Diner you can go out and smoke a joint, over there after dinner (and some say before dinner) it’s a sad site to beyold for those who like the touch of a woman.

For them Homosexuality is a “dent in the fender” without insurance for repairs.

Can you feel the feeling? “On The Road Again”!!

96. Spock - December 16, 2009

Anon E. Moose: Ok, I will stop calling you Earl.

97. Anon E. Mouse - December 16, 2009

Thank you Intelligent One. I could call you an asshole, but I won’t.

98. Panoritsa - December 16, 2009

You asked whether I am a solar sometime ago DC.

I am not naive. I do have ideals and I know what I consider right and wrong. It took me some time to fight through the illusion of the cult, but I came through.

I am not talking about “laws” or “rules” institutions, governments or other people impose on one. I am talking about one’s feeling and intuition.

Even if all the young male “students” that Robert had sexual contact with were prostitutes and just wanted to take advantage of the situation, I still would not have liked Robert Burton as my “spiritual leader.” It is not about “seduction”, it is about humanity. And one can analyze and go on and on, but I do not consider someone who hurts other humans and is so inhuman in his sexual, intimate moments a “conscious being.” Basta! Sexuality and desires tell. You cannot hide. If you do, you get twisted. It is the number one issue. Robert Burton is not the “only” exception on this planet.

I believe that having physical contact with another human being is an act of love. What you say about school teachers getting married to pupils is fine… But do you call love and care what Robert has been doing with the young male “students” of his? It is a conveyor band situation. It is ugly and disgusting and has nothing to do with “consciousness.”

I personally think small cults like the Fellowship are worse that the Scientology. I would not have joined Scientology because there was so much out there about them, they do not advertise the “angelic” as the new web site of the Fellowship (Pathway to Presence) does. They are not that seductive.

The Fellowship is a chameleon. The property changes names, the invent new web sites to allure more people who have no idea of the direct connection with the Fellowship. I mean, many current members want to hold on to the illusion that there is so much love and beauty in the Fellowship. It is difficult and complicated to let go. Where else to go?

How about home? How about trusting oneself and one’s abilities, one’s common sense?

I have the feeling I am given this life to live it in its fullest; to breathe and love and wonder, to care for my body and my soul as one and the same thing. Whatever is going to come after my last breath is not in my hands.

99. Daily Cardiac - December 16, 2009

Panoritsa – 98:

“I have the feeling I am given this life to live it in its fullest; to breathe and love and wonder, to care for my body and my soul as one and the same thing. Whatever is going to come after my last breath is not in my hands.”

I agree with this almost in its entirety with one slight amendment:

Spirit is greater than flesh, or body. Body perishes, spirit does not. It prevails and as such is accorded greater esteem in greater realms than the realm we presently inhabit. (“to care for my body and my soul as one and the same thing.”)

Obviously we cannot care for the soul while on earth unless we take care of the body. But we are sometimes placed in situations where we have to make a choice and cater to one or the other.

100. Silentpurr - December 16, 2009

Cater?
DC, did you say cater? Whose ‘body do we ‘cater’ to in the fellowship? Only one body is ultimately ‘catered’ to in the Fellowship and that is Robert’s body.

101. X-ray - December 16, 2009

For those who do not understand:

Daily Cardiac is sincerely confused fellowship student.
All his/her posts means exactly what you read in them.
It is not a joke, it is not a game, it is a true face of fellowship indoctrination behind fake smiles.
The madness you see in DC’s post is real.
This is what fellowship is all about.
See it for what it is.

102. Silentpurr - December 16, 2009

In addition,
While belonging to the Fellowship there is no place for non duel thinking. At the basis of the Fellowship teaching, there is only Robert (awake) and everyone else (asleep) Am I including you, DC?

103. James Mclemore - December 16, 2009

DC, you said

“But we are sometimes placed in situations where we have to make a choice and cater to one or the other.”

DC, you are stuck in a belief system and ideology that is no different than dogmatic Christianity with its ‘flesh vs spirit’. It is crap. It infers that the body is, or can be, an enemy. It induces guilt and rigidity, and is a childish belief that further divides people against themselves.

The only ‘body’ that may be an enemy is the one Silentpurr is pointing at. The one your sick leader is inhabiting. People do need to be careful around that body.

104. brucelevy - December 16, 2009

The fact that this blog even engages DC in disputing his or her doctrinaire bullshit reduces the credibility of the factual information that’s been posted here concerning RB’s demented exploitation of members, sexually, financially and spiritually. Have some fucking dignity. Would you go to a circus and engage in important information sharing with a fucking retarded, pathologically dishonest clown? Have you no shame?

105. brucelevy - December 16, 2009

Just ignore the fucker.

106. brucelevy - December 16, 2009

He craves the attention he gets here because he can’t get it there.

107. brucelevy - December 16, 2009

The facts, I said FACTS, have been laid out here continually with extensive corroboration by many. If someone comes here trying to decide if the FOF is right for them, and in the face of the FACTS, still decides to join, or is unsure, then let the fucker join. They have every right to have every cent they have, as well as their dignity, self pride, sexual identity taken from them and exploited with nothing tangible in return. It doesn’t take a mental giant to see what kind of person would join now, with all the information out there, and the utter horse shit from DC. Noe does it take a genius to see what kind of person would stand by, while a member, and support this criminal enterprise.
Isn’t it clear that NOTHING that has been said here, at any time, has penetrated, in any way, the dense, non-functioning brain of someone like DC who’s narcissism and imaginary self worth is truly beyond comprehension. It’s insanity to entertain this douche bag. And it’s insanity to think these arguments are going to dissuade a fence sitter, if they like the fence post up their asses.

108. WhaleRider - December 16, 2009

“Obviously we cannot care for the soul while on earth unless we take care of the body.”

Since body and soul are interconnected, the reverse is also true; one cannot care for the body unless we take care of the soul.

Insurance companies put doctors in a position where doctors have to choose to cater more for the body of the patients placed under their care and less for their patient’s soul since it is more cost and time efficient; yet in doing so, some feel the quality of medicine is compromised.

That doesn’t mean if I were a young man I should allow my elderly gay doctor to give me a blowjob under the guise he thinks it might be good for my soul and balance out his practice. Undoubtedly he would be abusing his position and deriving some kind of sick, perverted pleasure from the act.

109. James Mclemore - December 16, 2009

Bruce –

While I do not think it has anything to do with ‘having dignity’, or not having any ‘shame’, I do think I hear what you are saying. I guess my thinking has been that if nothing is said, then the shit that he writes just stands here unrebutted. Maybe that is for the best, and I just had not been able to see it. I certainly have not written to try and convince DC of anything. I have written for the ‘others’ that may come along, but perhaps you are correct and they will make their own choices for good or bad no matter what is said here in rebuttal to DC.
As you said, the FACTS are all here already.
I was about to take a break from this anyway.

And thanks for the Tim Minchen. I had not heard of him before. I listened to several of his pieces. I like him.

110. Ames Gilbert - December 16, 2009

Dear all, by following the simple advice I found on a popular spiritual website, I have finally found inner peace. I am passing this on to you guys because it definitely worked for me and I know we are all seeking that calm and detached point of view as we live our lives.

The guru proclaimed the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you have started.

So I looked around my house to see things I’d started and hadn’t finished. Before leaving my house this morning, I finished off a bottle of Merlot, a bottle of chardonnnay, a bodle of Baileys, a butle of vocka, a pockage of Prunglies , tha mainder of bot Prozic and Valum prisciptins, the rez of the Chesescke an, an? a bax a shocolets, shuclets, thazzit.

Yu haf no idr who fkin gud I fel. No idr tal. Ukn gessum thiz 2!

Peas, sen dis orn to dem yu fee ar in ned ov inr pece

111. Spock - December 17, 2009

Here’s an excerpt from the book, “On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You’re Not”

By Robert A. Burton, M.D. ©2008

Yep, Robert Burton.

http://www.amazon.com/Being-Certain-Believing-Right-Youre/dp/031254152X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261015447&sr=1-1

Excerpt:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In 1957, Stanford professor of social psychology Leon Festinger introduced the term cognitive dissonance to describe the distressing mental state in which people “find themselves doing things that don’t fit with what they know, or having opinions that do not fit with other opinions they hold.” In a series of clever experiments, Festinger demonstrated that such tensions were more often minimized or resolved through changes in personal attitudes than by relinquishing the dissonant belief or opinion.

As an example, Festinger and his associates described a cult that believed that the earth was going to be destroyed by a flood. When the flood did not happen, those less involved with the cult were more inclined to recognize that they had been wrong. The more invested members who had given up their homes and jobs to work for the cult were more likely to reinterpret the evidence to show that they were right all along, but that the earth was not destroyed because of their faithfulness.

Festinger’s seminal observation: The more committed we are to a belief, the harder it is to relinquish, even in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence. Instead of acknowledging an error in judgment and abandoning the opinion, we tend to develop a new attitude or belief that will justify retaining it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

112. Spock - December 17, 2009

I’ll Never Tell: “One of the admonishments in FoF was to consider if you multiplied your actions by number of people in school – how helpful or destructive they might be to the aim of the school. So, if you applied that to the actions of Robert Earl Burton, just think what the Fellowship of Friends – Pathway to Presence – Beingpresent.org – Apollo.org – Renaissance Vineyard and Winery – The Art of Divine Presence would be like: utter insane asylum.”

Just seeing all of those names together in one sentence describes one aspect of the asylum. Someone might think you made that up, but you didn’t.

But you make an outstanding point. Burton never applies the same scrutiny to himself that he likes to apply to others. He’ll leave the room in a flash to avoid any accountability for his own actions. He directs a serious tone at his followers during his strange meetings. But if any attention is turned to his own insanity, he likes to say, “Take nothing seriously but your aim to awaken.”

—–
Dr. Pangloss: “All the longtime losers who face a not so distant future as applicants for welfare assistance from the great county of Yuba are no doubt looking to jack up the income from Pathways To Presence in order to raise their salaries above poverty level status once Bob croaks. As someone has already written here, The Church of Scientology set the standard once Sci-Fi writer Hubbard started his dirt-nap.”

It’s really a wicked mess they’ve gotten themselves into. Combine that with the factors articulated in the excerpt from the book above, and everything written on these pages about Burton and his enablers, and you can see why there’s not even a crack in their walls of cognitive dissonance.

113. Daily Cardiac - December 17, 2009

Regarding some of the recent comments about my participation here, I’d like to clarify a few things.

First of all I am not here to convince any of the regular posters to abandon their views and see things my way regarding the FoF or RB.

I am not here because I have any doubts or uncertainties about what the FoF/RB is or is not.

I am not here for attention; it is more than a small imposition on my time to post here.

My aim is to engage individuals in conversation because I feel that is the only way the whole truth will be revealed. Only through dialog and each side expressing their personal views, beliefs and understandings will the truth be revealed. Only through dialog will the inaccuracies, inconsistencies, contradictions, falsehoods and fantasies be uncovered.

These revelations will not be apparent to some, perhaps not to many at all, but they will be apparent to the ones sincerely seeking the truth about the FoF and RB. In my time here I’ve only spoken about my own personal experiences in the FoF. Obviously it is not to my eyes the same organization described by ex members. I am not here to take away anyone’s right to think or feel other than the way they do.

I am here to relate my experiences, understandings in as truthful and straightforward a way as I can. If the telling of my experiences contradict ex members words I can’t help that. I have no qualms about their truth contradicting mine; so they should not have any qualms about mine contradicting theirs.

It matters little to me if people respond to my comments or not. If I see something I feel is untrue and I have the time I will probably challenge it.

I also don’t mind when people write back in a mean spirited and insulting manner. I would rather they respond in a civil and respectful manner, as I strive to do, but the vulgarities do reveal where they are coming from.

When people answer with sarcasms, obscenities and the like it only shows that is all they have in their arsenals. It only shows that the truth is not circulating when they are responding. If truth were on their side they would not need to resort to such a level.

I think what is already becoming clear is that no one here is interested in a real discussion of the issues; using only a force of reason to help uncover truth and expose falsehood. People dedicate thousands of words to calling me names in the hope that no one will notice they have not addressed one single issue, not taken up one challenge. Hoping no one will notice they are only repeating the same claims over and over again with no illustration of how the claims are relevant or pertinent to anything of a spiritual nature.

I don’t know how many others notice what’s happening, but I do.

114. Wouldnt You Like To Know - December 17, 2009

99. Daily Cardiac:
‘But we are sometimes placed in situations where we have to make a choice and cater to one or the other [soul or body].’

Maybe you have to make a choice, oh!, delusioned one, but it would be formatory to have to choose either one or the other, and, besides, I would go with this from Plato:
‘With a correct sense of priorities, a man will direct his efforts first to his soul, secondly to his body, and lastly to money and business.’
What are your priorities, DC? Observing the Teacher, both public and private, what are the priorities?

115. X-ray - December 17, 2009

113. Daily Cardiac – December 17, 2009

‘First of all I am not here to convince any of the regular posters to abandon their views and see things my way regarding the FoF or RB.’

You can only convince idiots like you, to us, you just pathetic sick and hopeless bag of shit.

‘My aim is to engage individuals in conversation because I feel that is the only way the whole truth will be revealed. ‘

No, you lying.
You here to delude and distort the truth about Burton, but your efforts are fruitless since everybody knows now what the truth about Burton is.

To read your post any farther, would mean to vomit, which I wouldn’t like to do.

116. rock that boat - December 17, 2009

Linda/DC and all current FOF members
It is never to late to stop the sexual abuse, to step out of the charade you are in, to pick up the pieces and let the healing BEGIN!

Enabler, enablers

Generally, individuals who enable others have weak boundaries, low self-esteem, and have difficulty being assertive.

One who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior, by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior.

Facilitates the person’s continued abuse by attempting to help the abuser (RB), shouldering responsibility, making excuses for him, in fact encourages continued abusing behavior.

117. What You Should Know About Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends - December 17, 2009

• It’s a doomsday cult.
• The predicted doomsday never came.
• Burton predicted major catastrophes for 1984 and 1998, and then nuclear war for 2006. For decades, he predicted the Fellowship of Friends would become the beginning of a new civilization in 2006.
• Through cognitive dissonance, followers try to forget the above predictions, or downplay them.
• Like other cults, followers don’t like labels such as “cult,” calling it a “pejorative” term, or insisting that it’s “misleading.” But there’s no better one-word description for this organization in the English language.
• Burton has coerced and seduced several hundred young followers into having sex with him, using promises of spiritual salvation, expensive gifts, and vacations abroad. As a result, many former and current followers have suffered lasting psychological scars and emotional trauma, and a few have committed suicide. (Read the numerous personal accounts within this web log.)
• Burton is a sociopath and malignant narcissist who shows no concern for the welfare of his followers unless they are useful to him in some way. When they cease to be useful to him, he discards them.
• Burton’s “public” persona is one of a gentle guru who speaks with a soft voice. This personality helps him hypnotize his followers into believing they have found the one truth path to enlightenment, salvation, and heaven.
• Burton tells his followers that 44 angels, or gods, guide the Fellowship of Friends — and that they guide only the Fellowship of Friends. Angels, he says, do not guide anyone else on earth.
• Burton advances a world view that Hell exists, and that there’s one way to avoid going to Hell when one dies: Join the Fellowship of Friends, and stay in the Fellowship of Friends until your death. All people on earth who do not join the Fellowship of Friends will go to Hell when they die. Likewise, followers are warned that they will go to Hell if they leave the cult.
• Followers are discouraged or forbidden from communicating with former members. Those who leave the cult will lose contact with their closest friends within the cult.
• Followers are forbidden to discuss any of the above. If they do discuss these facts with their friends, or question anyone about these facts, they will be expelled. This in turn fosters secrecy and lack of transparency within the cult.
• People outside the cult who try to provide the above information to followers within it are intimidated or threatened with legal retaliation, much like the Scientology cult.
• Burton charges exorbitant membership fees – anywhere from 20% to 40% of income, depending on a person’s salary. The full amount of these fees is never discussed when representatives try to sell people on joining the cult.
• The fees have helped pay for Burton’s extravagant lifestyle, which includes expensive clothing, frequent expensive vacations, and a lavish home at the cult’s compound in Oregon House, California (between Grass Valley and Yuba City).
• Burton and the Fellowship of Friends have been sued by former members on multiple occasions. Most of these suits have been settled out of court.
• Burton founded the cult in 1970. For more than three decades, he characterized the cult as a so-called “Fourth Way school.” In recent years, the cult has virtually abandoned any discussions about the Fourth Way.
• In the last four years, several hundred followers have left the Fellowship of Friends, and many followers continue to leave. It’s believed that slightly over 1,000 members remain worldwide, but reliable statistics are not publicly available.

118. WhaleRider - December 17, 2009

Daily Cardiac:

Thank you so much for continuing to post despite the vulgarities that are hurled back at you by a few individuals.

Despite how futile it seems to others, I think it is invaluable that you continue to post.

IMO, your last post is one of the most amazing examples of your blindness to date.

It’s truly incredible.

You say, “First of all I am not here to convince any of the regular posters to abandon their views and see things my way regarding the FoF or RB…“I am not here because I have any doubts or uncertainties about what the FoF/RB is or is not….My aim is to engage individuals in conversation because I feel that is the only way the whole truth will be revealed… I am not here to take away anyone’s right to think or feel other than the way they do.”

It clear to me (and probably others) that you are here not to engage in a conversation with anyone at all, but to repeat and reinforce your cult status quo as you have been indoctrinated to do, which in turn, despite your assertion otherwise, has the potential to indoctrinate others. Then you conveniently project that onto us with your claim that “they are only repeating the same claims over and over again with no illustration of how the claims are relevant or pertinent to anything of a spiritual nature.”

The reason is that sexual and emotional abuse are not of a spiritual nature, but deadening to the spirit, nor is the abuse perpetrated by burton for spiritual purposes, but for his perverted sexual gratification…something that you refuse to acknowledge.

In fact, there is virtually no reason a person should have to endure sexual and emotional abuse by a person claiming to be a spirtual authority. You are living in the dark ages, my dear.

So although you claim that you are not here to change anyone’s mind, you are here reinforcing your delusional belief system which could at least serve to keep current FOFer’s thinking inline with your own.

This is what burton does. As an authority figure, he repeats himself enough times until his captive, attentive, and silenced followers believe him just like Dick Cheney did which lead us into war with Iraq. It’s an age-old technique.

You say: “It matters little to me if people respond to my comments or not.”

Wow. What could be more clear than that?

Having a conversation with a narcissist is like having a one way conversation with a wall.

They don’t want to hear about you, they are only really just interested in having a conversation with themselves in a mirror. The co-dependents around the narcissist are trained to reflect back only what the narcissist wants to see about himself otherwise they are removed from the narcissist’s presence.

There is no room for sarcasm or criticism…or more importantly debate, because narcissists cannot handle the truth about themselves.

In case you hadn’t noticed many people come to this forum to debate the merits or lack of merits of the fourth way and/or burton’s behavior, simply because it’s something they weren’t allowed to do in the FOF.

And traditionally debate among individuals is more likely to uncover the truth than a one way “dialog” as you call it.

But when confronted by the truth of burton’s sexual and emotional abuse of his followers, you retreat behind the walled belief that burton’s actions are above and beyond debate.

You say, “I think what is already becoming clear is that no one here is interested in a real discussion of the issues; using only a force of reason to help uncover truth and expose falsehood. People dedicate thousands of words to calling me names in the hope that no one will notice they have not addressed one single issue, not taken up one challenge.”

That is just a downright lie. Many, many people have.

The most recent are the issues of consent in an imbalanced relationship and the current definition of sexual assault.

You just don’t want to “discuss” anything, you just keep saying the stuff over and over, which despite your claims otherwise indicates to me that you are attempting to drown out your doubts or the doubts of others through repetition….hence the infamous “sequence” of 30 canine commands.

Your thick defensiveness is what pulls or cathects the frustration and anger from others.

Our frustration with your defensivenss in turn reinforces your belief that nobody really understands you, so what do you do?

You reinforce the status quo yet again…in collusion with a sexual predator.

Why?

The Emperor wears no clothes!!!

What eventually happened to the Berlin Wall? People took hammers to it, venting their years of pent up anger and frustration with being forced to live in a partitoned world. The truth is, it had to come down one way or another, and when “respectful” diplomacy fails and people fail to be heard, they take to the streets in loud protest.

The soul craves freedom.

119. Ames Gilbert - December 17, 2009

Open Letter to Robert Earl Burton:
You have quite a load on your back, don’t you? For example, you once told me that one of the burdens of being a ‘conscious being’ is that you make about 500 decisions a week concerning your ‘students’ and your ‘school’. Quite an obligation, but I guess it helps you know all the answers and are such a decisive fellow. How lucky for your followers that you spend so much time minding their business for them. I guess it’s for the best; they don’t have to think for themselves, and thinking for themselves is dangerous for you.

And what do you expect in return?
On the surface, just the usual adoration or fear, endless opportunities for sex, and of course the unlimited shopping. I say ‘endless’ and ‘unlimited’ because, you being immortal and all that, the need is going to continue, in one form or another, forever, isn’t it?
So, lets have a look underneath the surface. What drives you?
It would be nice if everyone would just acknowledge you as “the brightest light in 2,000 years” wouldn’t it? You say this so often, it must be really important to you. But I have to ask, though it is so obvious to you, why isn’t it obvious to everyone else? I know you claim that you are so elevated that we mere mortals cannot appreciate your lofty ‘consciousness’, but all the other reputed ‘conscious beings’, including most of the 44 who were supposed to be your friends and allies, left behind significant traces when they exited this plane. At this rate, you will have left behind a worthless, mostly ghost-written book and some unofficial and also worthless sexual records.

It would be nice if you could stop being so needy for sex, huh? Then you could get on with the rest of your day and your life without constantly thinking about how you’re going to get more dick. It is a bit sad that the never-ending quest is permanent, since you are already ‘crystallized’, together with all your baggage. Some baggage! And it is sadder that the next orgasm isn’t going to provide the relief you seek, let alone the next thousand or ten thousand. And sadder still that your need is going to continue when you drop your body, and your nerve endings are no longer available to stimulate.

It would be nice if you could live your life without the support of drugs, wouldn’t it? It must be awful knowing that none of your partners actually desire you, that they only have erections because you make them take Viagra or because they stimulate themselves to simulate desire. And imagine being truly calm inside, instead of the fake calm of tranquilizers. Imagine having self-control, to not have to reach out for this pill or that to mask your emptiness, imagine not having pills control you.

It would be nice if you could bear to be alone and live with yourself and your thoughts, wouldn’t it? You’ve never slept alone in forty years, and you surround yourself with human company every waking hour, yet you’ve never reached another human, nor has a human reached you. And yet, you are going to die alone. And at the moment of death, you will have to face the truth. You are dying loveless and unloved after living a worthless life. Less than worthless, because you have left behind many people who have suffered as a result of your stay on earth, who have suffered because of your mental illnesses and colossal weaknesses. Less than worthless, because you have left behind a body of deluded followers, who must suffer needlessly as they in turn have to rediscover the truth about themselves and their situation. Less than worthless because you never earned your keep, you fed off others your entire life, and you never repaid the debt you owed for the gift of your life. Less than less than worthless, because you not only never tried to repair the damage you caused, but you never even acknowledged it or felt pity or remorse. Less than worthless because you led a less than worthless life and never contributed anything to the common weal.

It would be nice if you could face death with equanimity, wouldn’t it? Then you wouldn’t have to build monuments to your ego. You wouldn’t have to keep on and on with the story that you are the founder of the next civilization, that your memory will be revered, your prophecies were useful and accurate, that you had access to secret wisdom, and that humanity will be grateful for your contributions. Wouldn’t that be a relief?

You know, if you could drop that “brightest light in 2,000 years” gig (a.k.a. I’m the most important person in the world, and if only everyone would recognize that, then I’d be happy) gig, then you could see yourself as you actually are:
Empty, lonely and frightened. A complete slave to your weaknesses, needs and lusts.

The truth is, when all is said and done, very few agree with your opinion of yourself after they have had a close look at you. And since there is no way to quench your desires, you’ll never be happy. Actually, you’re no different from the rest of us poor shmucks, deep down you want love, approval and appreciation, but your gigantic ego will not countenance being so ordinary and human.

If you ever come to realize this before your death, it will be some meltdown, won’t it?

120. Tatyana - December 17, 2009

I think we are talking with a person who has a mental disorder. I am not going to waste my time on that anymore. It sounds way too familiar. Endless lectures, provocations, deafness, manipulation of attention. I don’t think any FOF in his clear mind will do anything so unbalanced. I don’t think it could be LT or GH.

I am with x-ray – going to vomit.

121. ton - December 17, 2009

tatyana 119
“I don’t think any FOF in his clear mind will do anything so unbalanced. I don’t think it could be LT or GH.”

i take from this is that you consider LT and GH to be ‘clear’ and ‘balanced’ — I disagree…. tatyana, you seem to still have one foot in the fof and one foot out. maybe when you’ve been out of the circle of influence for a while you’ll see the collection of mental cases surrounding burton for who/what they are…

122. Spock - December 17, 2009

“I think we are talking with a person who has a mental disorder… I don’t think any FOF in his clear mind will do anything so unbalanced. I don’t think it could be LT or GH.”

This isn’t exactly news given all of the information on this blog… But whatever his/her identity or identities, the words “imbalanced” and “mental disorder” do apply to MANY people in the FOF, including the two people you refer to above. That’s probably not a comfortable realization for someone who lives there and who has invested a lot of time in the cult and tries to maintain connections to people within it.

Also, consider something about your daughter becoming interested in Scientology (81 and 82)… Is there any chance she’s trying to tell you something either consciously or subconsciously? And maybe she’s a bit smarter than you give her credit for?

Just a thought.

—–

123. Spock - December 17, 2009

ton, simultaneous post…

tatyana, I agree with ton and others who have noted previously that you still have one foot in the door. I found your negative comments against Scientology interesting. I agree with your negative view of that cult, and I would be very concerned were it my daughter… Now if you could unleash the same fury closer to home.

True friends will follow you and listen to you about the FOF. Friendships built upon a Lie will disappear, but then nothing was lost.

124. fofblogmoderator - December 18, 2009

117 is new

125. Wouldnt You Like To Know - December 18, 2009

119. Ames Gilbert:
Notwithstanding all of what you said, Ames, the way REB sees it: Jesus had less followers/disciples than he does and many people disliked Jesus thouroughly, so REB is ahead of the game! Just one more thing to accomplish: getting cruxified, or some other worse end to his life.

126. Ill Never Tell - December 18, 2009

117. What You Should Know About Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends:

‘Burton has coerced and seduced several hundred young followers into having sex with him, using promises of spiritual salvation, expensive gifts, and vacations abroad. . .’

This is an UNDER estimated number of ‘coerced and seduced . . . young followers into having sex with him.’ It is more likely over 1000.

Narcissistic supply DICKtates that constant conquest continue ad infinitum. The old familiar fellatio will not be as exciting as the virgin territory.

127. Just the Facts Ma'am - December 18, 2009

I am willing to bet all my fourth state experiences that the at least twice a week ‘dinners for the boys’ (also known as wine cellar dinners) of anywhere up to 100 sex partners and potential sex partners, plus hangers-on (depending on how they are hung), continues. Of course, in the winter the number attending is reduced for want of space compared to the summer outdoor dinner extravaganzas. And, then, there is the twice on Sunday game where the same sort of thing also happens at Sunday Brunch. That makes up to three times a week or more. Then for a few days each week the show is on the road at the expense of the entire Fellowship of Friends membership.

128. X-ray - December 18, 2009

117. What You Should Know About Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends – December 17, 2009

Accurate and truthful.

119. Ames Gilbert – December 17, 2009

Accurate and truthful.
Would be a very good one to post on GF.
Reach the masses, Ames.

129. Agent 45 - December 18, 2009

Dear Ms. Cardiac:
The other 44 are busy with the usual – dining, fund raising & debauchery, so I have been assigned your case. Don’t look so disappointed, how do you think I feel?
If you would kindly point out and name the mean-spirited persons that plague you, I will personally set them straight. And while I’m out there cleaning up the streets I will look for your missing sense of humor.
I remain at your service,
Richard Boone
PS. Bobby sends his similey-face greetings to you (guess what he’s been up to) and wants you to know you are his favorite.

130. ton - December 18, 2009

Bruce 104 – 107

I agree with what you say about DC.

DC claims to want an open “conversation” here but what this “person” doesn’t realize is that it’s an impossibility. DC’s “mind” is not open, it’s “conditioned” by burtonism (brainwashed), DC is convinced of the absolute truth of her beliefs and dismisses anything that may contradict them, therefore no conversation WITH this “person” is possible…. but it’s still possible to talk ABOUT a “DC.”

In the past I’ve addressed some posts directly to a DC, but no longer. More recently I’ve begun posting my thoughts ABOUT a DC’s limited frame of reference, circular “logic” and programmatic doctrinaire thought forms. Writing ABOUT a DC is different than writing TO a DC — writing TO a DC is in fact an exercise in futility.

I think of a DC as a type of curiousity, a “specimen” representing a certain form of brainwashing… (I think of a Burton somewhat in the same way… that is, as a curiosity and a “specimen” rather than as a person). I may be accused of “inhuman treatment” in this regard (see elena’s blog for that “gem”), but I still think this “treatment” can be useful in exposing the fof cult-think for what it is. I don’t view nor do I treat a DC as a person, this DC seems to have given up on “personhood” — instead what we have is an automaton programmed by the memes of burtonism.

131. ton - December 18, 2009

By holding Burton as perfect and thus beyond ordinary explanations, his presumed specialness can be used to justify anything. Some deeper, occult reason can always be ascribed to anything Burton does: Burton… gives so much that a little excess is understandable. He punishes those who disobey him not out of anger but out of necessity, as a good father would. He uses sex to teach about energy and detachment. He lives an opulent life to break people’s simplistic preconceptions of what ego-loss should look like; it also shows how detached and unconcerned he is about what others think. For after all, ‘Once enlightened, one can do anything.’ Believing this dictum makes any action justifiable.

It is not at all unusual to be in an authoritarian relationship and not know it. In fact, knowing it can interfere with surrender.
Burton recognizes, reinforces, and rewards surrender, and negates non-surrender. Aside from the more tangible rewards, Burton reinforces devotion with attention and approval, and punishes its lack by withdrawing them. Burton punishes those who doubt. Doubt is not the way to get into the inner circle. His students believe that surrender to Burton is essential for their “evolution.” Burton’s teachings imply believing in surrender, this is essential for transmitting his teachings. Burton is aware he is manipulating people to surrender, he may even secretly rationalize that he is doing so ‘for their own good’ — but in reality he does so for HIS own good. Burton’s rationalization not only “justifies” his manipulation, it also “justifies” dissembling (lying) in order to eliminate people’s doubts – all this is being done in the name of fostering “spiritual growth.”

People whose power is based on the surrender of others develop a repertoire of techniques for deflecting and undermining anything that questions or challenges their status, behavior, or beliefs. They ridicule or try to confuse people who ask challenging questions. To be thought enlightened, one must appear not only certain that one is, but certain about most everything else, too.

Burton undercuts reason as a path to understanding. In the case of discursive inquiry, he places the highest value on paradox which easily lends itself to mental manipulation. If you take a position that contradicts burtonism, you are always shown to be missing  the point; the point being that the Burton knows something you cannot.

Burton’s ambitions are realized by the way he exercises power, this through rewarding the enthusiasms of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering ‘carrots,’ and promising that through him the disciples’ desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the Burton, with the members filling each other’s needs. Within the community there is a sense of both intimacy and potency, and a celebratory, party-like atmosphere often reigns. Everything seems perfect; everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. Burton is relatively accessible, charming, even “fun” — afterall, he IS the life of HIS party.

Burton’s stance toward outsiders is of benign superiority.
Many gurus and spiritual authorities negate, make light of, or even ridicule the use and value of Western psychotherapy because its concepts of the unconscious undermine their authority and power. To acknowledge that unconscious factors may be operative in oneself means that one cannot be totally sure of one’s self.

A primary goal in therapy is to free clients from their need to transfer unresolved issues onto others. This need makes people particularly susceptible to authoritarian control. Good therapists aim at being very conscious of how they deal with transference.

the above is paraphrased, edited and adapted from an original article found here:

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:3Tkl8Ol7nIAJ:robertpriddy.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/the-guru-papers-censorship-and-manipulative-control-of-followers-minds/+guru+needs+followers,+followers+need+guru&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

132. Silentpurr - December 18, 2009

There is great depth and sensitivity of perception in all of your posts concerning RB and the FOF. No one except those who have systematically dissolved their last shreds of conscience would not be moved emotionally. What those with dissolved conscience may not understand is that many of us were actually paying attention while in the FOF. Some of us were working with intense friction.One of Robert’s favorite mantras was “this person” became conscious by “doing” everything my teacher asked me to do” Remember, in the area of pain and disappointment, Robert is an equal opportunity provider.
– ton, i agree with you exactly.

133. Opus 111 - December 18, 2009

ton #130

I will echo the sentiment of Silentpurr. Your depiction of the dynamics of life in FOF is very cogent. The apparent diversity and “magic” of FOF(lauded inside) is in fact a bland silky uniformity (mostly of the mind and spirit, mostly apparent once outside), very much as I see it now, and much as I perceived it in quickly repressed glimpses when I was a member. It is revealing to remember that one of the first introductory statements in prospective meeting was that “this” is no ordinary psychology. Indeed, “ordinary” psychology sees the naked man, mind control and emotional distress behind the silk screen.

Happy holidays!

134. fofblogmoderator - December 18, 2009

129 is new

135. The FOFion - December 19, 2009

Blog Sued

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (ARK) — The Fellowship of Friends filed a law suit Friday against The Blog.

“Not exactly a Christmasy thing to do,” said Blog CEO Payne N. Theass. “We’ll deal with it, though.”

Fellowship spokesperson Lynn Duh said the FOF has been building a case for months after someone accused FOF leader Robert Burton of being a “sociopath.”

“Look, everyone realizes the Teacher is a malignant narcissist with symptoms of multiple personality disorder and sexual compulsive disorder who lacks a conscience or any vague sense of sincere concern for his followers unless they serve his needs in some way,” Duh said at an afternoon press conference.

After taking a deep breath, she continued…

“But we’re outraged that The Blog is spreading this rumor that he’s a sociopath. Saying something like that tells you all you need to know about The Blog.”

During the press conference, Duh also announced that the FOF had a new motto that Centre Directors will hang from a banner during Prospective Student Meetings:

“Over One Thousand and Counting”

“It does draw some puzzled looks,” Duh admitted. “People don’t know what it means, and believe me, we don’t tell them.”

136. Bares Reposting - December 19, 2009

Here’s a news item that is a bit old but people might find interesting to read or re-read:

Dunne on Wine:
Renaissance perseveres
in the Yuba foothills

By Mike Dunne – Bee Food Editor
mdunne_at_sacbee_dot_com
Published:
March 11th, 2008 01:40 PM

On a sunny slope about 2,300 feet up the Sierra foothills of Yuba County, Gideon Beinstock points out an array of Northern California landmarks.

There’s the Coast Range. That snowy crown is Mount Lassen. The smudge off to the left? Sacramento. From way up here, you even look down on the area’s most prominent geological feature, Sutter Buttes.

Vision never has been a problem at Renaissance Vineyard & Winery. [Self] Realization is another matter.

Since 1994, the hirsute and slight Beinstock has been Renaissance’s winemaker and CEO. But over the past few years, the winery’s future has become as murky as the outline of Sacramento on the horizon.

At Beinstock’s feet, stubby silver stumps of vines curve across the shoulder of the hill, barely visible in waves of tall spring grass. Like other vineyards that not long ago rolled across these knolls in a rhythmic pastiche evocative of Tuscany, this plot is being abandoned.

On a hill across the way, a tractor yanks out vines of another plot. On yet another hill stands Renaissance’s monolithic three-story winery; only the ground floor now is used to make wine. Here and there, olive, almond, cherry and citrus orchards have replaced stands of chardonnay and riesling. Rosebushes bloom where pinot noir once grew. [Karl Werner would turn over in his grave, if he could, were he to know.]

“This has been a traumatic experience,” Beinstock says while driving his truck up and down the estate’s steep and rocky roads. “But it was financial suicide, the way this was farmed before.”

For-profit without profit

In 1971, the guarded, philosophic, spiritually seeking Fellowship of Friends acquired 1,300 acres of these hard and brushy hills 20 miles northeast of Marysville and began to build a community of refinement and quest.

In 1974, the group hired German winemaker Karl Werner, who upon first visiting the site reputedly scooped up a handful of the property’s red soil, took a bite and pronounced it just the stuff to produce great wine.

Vineyard development commenced the next year, and over the ensuing decade, the energetic Fellowship converted 365 hardscrabble acres into vines, built the winery, and released wines that drew praise and a following for their structure, clarity and daring. At its peak, Renaissance was making 20,000 cases of wine a year, and principals talked of doubling output.

But today, only around 100 acres remain in vines, and annual production is down to 3,500 cases.

Renaissance — which since 1978 has been a for-profit, wholly owned subsidiary of the nonprofit Fellowship — just never made money, and this retrenchment is necessary to survive, indicates Beinstock.

He doesn’t know how much money has been invested and lost in the enterprise, and the Fellowship’s president, Linda Tulisso, says that information is confidential.

Other complications arose. Pesticides and herbicides hurt soil and vine, and yields fell; today, however, the vineyards are farmed organically. Lawsuits accusing the group’s founder and spiritual leader, Robert Burton, of sexual improprieties scared off distributors, says Beinstock; one suit was dismissed and two others were settled by the Fellowship’s insurance companies to save the costs of litigation, says Tulisso.

“The Fellowship itself never paid a penny in settlement,” notes Tulisso, who added that the suits were filed by former members who failed to produce evidence to support their accusations. [The Fellowship certainly pays the insurance premiums though. Word has it that board members have to pay for their own insurance.]

Stress, but not distressed

Aside from the cutback in vines, Renaissance today doesn’t look distressed. Palm trees line the estate’s looping lanes. Spring sunshine ricochets off golden statues of Apollo, Victory, Athena and other classical figures high on tall ribbed columns about the manicured grounds. Migrating geese pause at ponds. A large and handsome amphitheater is nearing completion (the Fellowship includes a ballet troupe, theater group, orchestra and choir). And the former book bindery has been converted into an idyllic concert hall and tasting room, open to the public from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. Saturdays.

Despite setbacks and an uncertain future, Beinstock is upbeat about Renaissance’s prospects. He’s a winemaker, after all, someone who knows that grapes infected with mold and looking rotten still can yield marvelously golden and luscious wines.

This isn’t collapse, but conversion, he says, noting that after three decades of experimentation, Renaissance knows what grape varieties will grow best on what sites. Chardonnay and riesling have been replaced with such varieties as grenache and syrah, which he is confident will adapt better to the steep, rocky slopes and the area’s hot summer days. Grafting and replanting continue, and new vineyard techniques are being introduced.

Beinstock isn’t interested in making mainstream “international style” varietals, but wines that represent the North Yuba appellation that is home to Renaissance.

“I’m looking for a real stamp of the place,” Beinstock says.

What might that be? Through three decades and three winemakers, certain stylistic threads have been consistent in the wines, and he intends to continue to capitalize on them. Renaissance wines are solidly structured, opening slowly and gracefully, and are long-lived when they do. They tend to be more lean than lush. They have an equilibrium about them, and by today’s standards, they are downright old-fashioned when it comes to alcohol levels. The newly released Renaissance 1999 Sierra Foothills North Yuba Vin de Terroir Cabernet Sauvignon ($49) has just 12.7 percent alcohol, yet it is rich with the smell and flavor of cherries and eucalyptus, with firm minerality in its feel.

Cabernet sauvignon is Renaissance’s signature varietal, as also shown by the ripe, supple and layered Renaissance 2000 Sierra Foothills North Yuba Cabernet Sauvignon ($30), but Beinstock is no less confident in the future of wines based on varieties identified with France’s Rhone Valley — syrah, grenache, viognier and the like.

In his corner are the bright and juicy Renaissance 2006 Sierra Foothills North Yuba Viognier ($30), abundant with honeysuckle, apple and peach; the concentrated, spicy Renaissance 2003 Sierra Foothills North Yuba Vin de Terroir Syrah ($35); and the unusually accessible Renaissance 2000 Sierra Foothills North Yuba Vin de Terroir Granite Crown ($40), a refined blend of syrah, cabernet sauvignon and merlot.

Renaissance wines are hard to find in the Sacramento area — Beinstock says San Francisco is a more receptive market for the wines — but they can be ordered online.

Toast to the future

A decade from now, he sees Renaissance comfortably stabilized. Vineyardists will be overseeing about 50 acres, he expects. Yields will be at precisely calibrated levels to produce monumental wines. The migration of the best grapes to the best sites will be complete. And Renaissance wines most likely will be sold only in California, largely through specialty stores catering to a clientele that appreciates the distinctive style that North Yuba produces.

“We have a much better understanding of this place now,” says Beinstock. “We’re getting the best varieties onto the best sites so we can focus on quality. We’re going small scale and being very precise. We’re building for the future.”

He can see it all around.

http://www.sacwineregion.com/109/story/585.html

[ ] comments are from this poster

Good luck Gideon!

137. ton - December 19, 2009

125 Wouldn’t You Like To Know

“…REB is ahead of the game! Just one more thing to accomplish: getting cruxified, or some other worse end to his life.”

Q: what would be a worse end to burton’s life than crucifixion?

A: because of his delusions of grandeur, nothing would please burton more than a martyr’s demise, that would only vindicate and provide “proof” of his preposterous claims for his brainwashed flock. what would be a worse end for burton? (there’s a sexual pun in this somewhere)… what would be THE WORST end? for all of his enabler, co-dependent followers/ supporters suddenly to grow “balls” and as a collective, simply to walk away leaving the pathetic old pervert alone and destitute, with nobody but himself to hold his limp little pecker.

re: “crux-ified” — the crux of the biscuit is of course the “interrelationship” of supporters and burton, without that “relationship” he’s nothing…

dear sheeple, do yourselves a favor, look up and look around you:

“The terms ‘codependent’, ‘enabler’, ‘follower’, ‘covert narcissist’ ‘inverted narcissist’ and co-narcissist are used interchangeably in respect of people who are emotionally dependent on narcissists. Narcissists surround themselves with codependents etc as they tend to work beyond healthy (and sometimes ethical) limits to do whatever the narcissist needs. Narcissists crave power and codependents etc crave security, so they are drawn to one another.

Codependency is a condition that affects a large percentage of the adult population. Individual characteristics vary in degree from individual to individual. Codependent patterns of behavior include, among others:
• Avoiding decision making and confrontation
• External referencing (always checking outside oneself before making choices)
• Subordinating one’s needs to those of the person with whom one is involved [the narcissist]
• Perfectionism
• Over-controlling
• Manipulation
• Lack of trust
• Lying

Often, the same person displays both narcissistic and codependency (co-narcissistic) behaviors, depending on circumstances. Both narcissists and codependents tend to assume that in any interpersonal interaction one person is narcissistic and the other codependent, and often can play either part.

http://www.winning-teams.com/definitions.html

138. Spock - December 19, 2009

125. Wouldnt You Like To Know –
“Notwithstanding all of what you said, Ames, the way REB sees it: Jesus had less followers/disciples than he does and many people disliked Jesus thouroughly, so REB is ahead of the game! Just one more thing to accomplish: getting cruxified, or some other worse end to his life.”

I have a slightly different take on this. Getting back to the short discussion between Dr. Pangloss and myself above…

Think about King Louis XIV… He lived it up until the day he croaked, and then Louis XVI was the one who was “crucified.” You see THAT’s Burton’s fantasy. He’s not interested at ALL in getting crucified. He doesn’t have a bone in his body that wants to suffer. He wants to live until he’s 100, continuing to live out his fantasy while still using people to suit his needs until the day he dies.

No, Burton absolutely does not want to be martyred. However, he wouldn’t have any problem with a few of his followers being martyred following his own death. That would make him look good he figures.

Also, another big difference — assuming Christ existed in the way we all imagine — unlike Burton, I’m guessing Christ was extremely well liked by the masses. That was the problem for him — not that he was disliked, but that he was liked so widely. That admiration from the masses was probably why Christ was crucified. They had to get rid of him because he became a threat to their power.

Burton may fantasize about that, too, but he’ll never have it. I always think it’s ironic that we, the fof followers, would show our disdain and lack of respect for “Life People.” Think about it: There are tens of thousands of “Life People” who learned of Burton and the FOF. But unlike all of us, they ran. We should really give them credit for seeing through the bullshit in a way that we didn’t — i.e., immediately.

They were intelligent, unlike us. They were awake, unlike us. They saw right through it from the start.

No wonder Burton persistently and relentlessly expresses his disdain for Life People.

139. Ames Gilbert - December 19, 2009

Agent 45,
Good to hear from you (#87-129). You obviously have a great sense of humor. Please report back often, and while you are about it, please ask some of the other 44 how they feel about their assigned roles. It must be galling to only be remembered with one-line quotes taken out of context and then be promptly forgotten for one’s other achievements. And, surely they have better things to do than arrange for Burton to go on his endless shopping sprees or get more dick? And I’d like to get their take on this thing about his followers being saved as long as they continue to write checks to Burton. Surely the rest of the 45 aren’t as one–dimensional and shallow (and humorless) as Burton makes out?

Anyway, all the best to you, and thanks for making contact.

P.S. If you can spare the time, could you give us the skinny on all the incredible suffering Burton claims he went through to become ‘conscious’? I’ve only been able to find the fact that he was asked to refrain from pestering other followers of Alex Horn. Although of course doing without dick or ass for any length of time was probably great suffering for Burton, I don’t quite believe that it would have led to anything unusual. I mean, I went without pussy for years after I joined the FoF, in fact until I got married (and believe me, it was really difficult keeping to the no–sex–before–marriage exercise that Burton imposed while I courted my very beautiful and desirable wife–to–be for the year required at the time!). So, how was Burton any different? If you can shed light on that, I’d be grateful, and thanks again.

140. Silentpurr - December 19, 2009

“Burtonism Spoken in “private” may even describe the suicides as examples of “followers who were identified with love”. Once “good students”, who were exposed to “great truths” and who may have gotten a little too close to the flame. With Robert, there can be so many teachable moments…..

did Linda have a wedding? meow?

141. Dr. Pangloss - December 19, 2009

136. Bares Reposting

Word on the street is that G. Beanstalk keeps his position at RVW only so he has use of the expensive wine-making facilities and choice lots of grapes with which he makes his own for-profit Clos Saron wine.
Once he no longer need these perks, this little weasel will be gone.

142. ton - December 19, 2009

spock 138
re: burton —
“He doesn’t have a bone in his body that wants to suffer. He wants to live until he’s 100, continuing to live out his fantasy while still using people to suit his needs until the day he dies.”

ya i have to agree with you, this bloody poofter would do anything to avoid the reality of an encounter with actual personal physical pain. it might more likely suit his followers were he to die as a martyr… to some it would provide “proof” for the self-delusional comparisons with christ. what is more to the point of the “codependent/enabler” link is the strange assymmetrical symbiosis between burton and his followers — it would seem that they need him as much as he needs them. the fof “disciples” get the “self-satisfaction” of being part of a select few who are in association with someone they imagine to be “christ-like” — while of course burton gets all the cock he can manage to swallow… not to mention the lavish material perks of the position.

live long and prosper

143. X-ray - December 21, 2009

136. Bares Reposting – December 19, 2009

“The Fellowship itself never paid a penny in settlement,” notes Tulisso, who added that the suits were filed by former members who failed to produce evidence to support their accusations.”

Tulisso, you are a fucking joke and you should share a prison cell with Burton

First of all, that’s why you have insurance so you won’t need to pay your money in case of lawsuits.
Second, why would insurance company settle lawsuits, if Burton wasn’t guilty?

You think that people stupid here, just like your cock sucker Robert Burton, who in fact is just retarded motherfucker.

144. X-ray - December 21, 2009

Let me tell you why they settled.
Because if this would go to litigation, they would pay much more, knowing that Burton would be found guilty.

145. fofblogmoderator - December 21, 2009

Looking back, here’s a post from “Nuthead”, Dec. 19, 2007

“Had a vision the other night during a storm in OH. It concerned, oddly enough, that diagram in ISOM showing how “deviating octaves” eventually go in the opposite direction.

It went approximately like this:

The Fellowship when it began was actually moving in a positive direction at least if one believed in the Fourth Way. This despite the fact that Robert Burton was deeply flawed from the beginning, so the organisation contained the seeds of its own destruction. Anyway, when I joined in 1980 it was on the way up. By about 1995 it had deviated enough to be going sideways, then it stated going down. This accelerated when Burton started teaching again, when the reasonable PB died and was replaced by the fanatical LT, when AF facilitated the ever increasing obsession with extracting cash from students, when M&D became dominant.

Now it is careering downwards at an ever increasing pace. I thought the rhino poo quote could never be surpassed for absurdity but now we have the totally mad chopsticks interpretation. What follows will no doubt be astonishing.

Part of this is the realisation that I actually became insane myself during my time in the FoF, and that those who remain become by necessity ever more deeply psychotic.”

146. Spock - December 22, 2009

From the previous page:
“…So I was pressured again and again, until I finally gave up and let him swallow a couple of loads. It was not something I enjoyed, or understood. There was no love or respect or free-will involved AT ALL. I found the experience humiliating and repulsive.”

To have someone profess holiness and “consciousness” and do the above is getting pretty close to the pinnacle of deceit and hypocrisy.

And when you realize this is the man running the show, is there any doubt why people use words like “psychotic” and “psychosis” to describe him, as well as to describe some of his followers?

There is healing from this — for some — there really is. But that healing… in the end, it’s out here. Healing doesn’t happen “in there.” You may enjoy the impressions, the fine dining, the company of companions, and the music — for a while — and I sincerely hope all of you do, like so many of us did who have since left.

But just a thought on this Christmas week:

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.”

I’m going to pull a Robert here… Think about this passage for a moment…

“You are the light of the world” — you are blessed, and you have a calling to express yourself and do good in the world, to find your calling in life — whether you are in the Fellowship of Friends or not, no matter how old, how young, and no matter how sure or unsure of yourself right now.

“…A city set on a hill cannot be hidden” — If you truly have something to offer to yourself and those around you, do not hide it within the confines of a closed society.

“…Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house” — They offer the light to all people who are receptive to it, to those within the school, to those who have left, and to everyone you meet and have contact with in your life — everywhere, and everyone who is open to it.

“…In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.”

How’s that for esoteric meaning?

Happy Holidays everyone.

147. Associated Press - December 22, 2009

144. X-ray
‘Let me tell you why they settled. Because if this would go to litigation, they would pay much more, knowing that Burton would be found guilty.’

Yes, and also, a successful civil suit can lead to a successful criminal action once the wrong doing is brought to the attention of the authorities.

148. Silentpurr - December 22, 2009

He could be planning a cloning, in Switzerland….

149. X-ray - December 22, 2009

147. Associated Press – December 22, 2009

144. X-ray
‘Let me tell you why they settled. Because if this would go to litigation, they would pay much more, knowing that Burton would be found guilty.’

Yes, and also, a successful civil suit can lead to a successful criminal action once the wrong doing is brought to the attention of the authorities.

Of course, that was the main reason, to keep Burton out of jail, but we have to make sure this cock sucker gets there anyway.

150. Golden Veil - December 22, 2009

*

* Ma * Vie * en * Rose *

The french film “Ma vie en rose” (My Life in Pink), 1997, tells the

story of Ludovic, a seven year old cross-dressing boy who believes

he is really a girl, and talks about marrying his best friend, Jerome,

a neighborhood boy who is also the son of his dad’s boss. Unable

to ‘fit in’, he escapes into a life of make-believe. His favorite

television show is about Pam, a Barbie doll-like character who lives

in a flowery pink cartoon fantasy world, and has magical powers.

Sound familiar?

From the script:

Ludovic Fabre: I’m a girlboy.

Jérôme: A girlboy?

Ludovic Fabre:To make a baby, parents play tic-tac-toe. When one wins, God sends Xs and Ys. XX for a girl, and XY for a boy. But my X for a girl fell in the trash, and I got a Y instead. See? A scientific error! But God will fix it and send me an X and make me a girl and then we’ll get married, okay?

Jérôme: That will depend on what kind of girl you are.

This film clip could have significance, to better understand some

aspects of ‘The Teacher’, Robert Burton, and his particular brand

of ‘Let’s Pretend’ philosophy that he captivates his followers with.

Maybe Robert Burton’s second X chromosome “fell in the trash”?

*

My best wishes to all this season, & my thanks for this glorious life.

*

151. dick moron - December 22, 2009
152. Yesri Baba - December 22, 2009

LOL

One thing though- the farts are a little too crisp they need to be poofier.

153. arthur - December 22, 2009

#145…..

I believe the Fellowship of friends’ “Do” began in 1970 or 1971. He, Robert Burton’s teaching direction couldnt make it past the first interval and that’s the first sideways divation-he started sucking cocks.

The next and biggest interval was about 1978-1979. That’s when he went totally insane. And, took a lot of people with him, and some still with him.

That’s my general understanding of the 8’s or octaves.

154. Bares Reposting - December 22, 2009

147. Associated Press:

‘144. X-ray
‘Let me tell you why they settled. Because if this would go to litigation, they would pay much more, knowing that Burton would be found guilty.’

Yes, and also, a successful civil suit can lead to a successful criminal action once the wrong doing is brought to the attention of the authorities.’

Yes, and also, a successful civil suit can be a watershed event where it opens a flood gate to all manner of hidden actionable activities. – Hey, if they can win a case, let us try – kind of thinking. So. it is very important to vigorously fight legal action, guilty or not, so that people don’t get the wrong ideas.

155. Spock - December 22, 2009

151. LOL, good film.

“All characters in this film are fictitious. Any similarity to real life persons is coincidental.”

haha. Quite the coincidence then. Uncanny resemblance.

By the way, since movie cameras now fit into people’s pockets, who knows, we may see the above with real, live “actors” one day. Not sure it would be admissible evidence, but it definitely wouldn’t be good pub for the “brightest light.”

156. brucelevy - December 22, 2009

151. dick moron

You da man.

157. dick moron - December 23, 2009

Somewhat improved Youtube version of “Say No to the Princess”

158. Golden Veil - December 23, 2009

This creepy movie with its apt depiction of the characters as toys is

one of the most disturbing yet appropriate parodies I have ever seen.

159. X-ray - December 23, 2009

157. dick moron – December 23, 2009

This is great! Whoever did this, I thank you!

Cock sucker Burton go to jail.

160. WhaleRider - December 23, 2009

Immediate Position Available

The blog is now accepting applications for the position of the new Headless Cheerleader for the Fellowship of Friends, Inc., a California Pseudo-Religious Corporation, also known as Pathway to Presence.

Qualifications and Requirements:

-25+ years of cult indoctrination
-Must be well-dressed, confident, and righteous
-Must demonstrate an unquestioning, blind devotion to Robert E. Burton
-Must have an inflexible belief system
-Must be attentive and able to follow orders
-Must have expertise in rationalization of criminal behavior
-Must be good at denial, spin, and damage control
-Must demonstrate total lack of conscience/empathy for the suffering of others
-Must be willing to spy and snitch on other followers
-Must be good at confronting and silencing any dissent
-Must be able to navigate in murky grey areas
-Must easily fluctuate between co-dependence and narcissism
-Must have a lust for power over others
-Must have a good working memory of cult-approved famous quotes
-Must be comfortable with repetition of dogma
-Must be good at finding vulnerable young male followers
-Must have little or no sense of humor, but be able to smile on cue without showing teeth
-Must have no children or strong family ties
-Must be willing to travel at a moment’s notice
-Must be willing to work long hours without a healthcare plan
-Must be able to type but not add to well
-Ability to overcome the gag response a plus, but not a requirement

Benefits Include:
-Lifetimes of job stability in proportion to job performance
-Empty praise from the cult leader
-Boundless opportunities for ego growth
-Immunity from legal prosecution
-Residence in the Ivory Tower
-Adequate rate of pay for poor rural areas
-Adoration of subordinates
-Copious amounts of wine and food
-Free laundry and dry cleaning
-Sex with multiple partners, if desired
-Platinum status in Paradise

Applicants may submit their posts below by providing their email address and whatever name by which they choose to describe themselves, filling in the little “message” box with a long diatribe of cult groupthink or Burton inanities, demonstrating the qualifications and requirements as outlined above, and then clicking on the “say it” button. At the applicant’s wish, all posts are treated as confidential.

The blog needs you!

161. veramente - December 24, 2009

157 Dick Moron
awesome!

does Burton has incontinence?

162. veramente - December 24, 2009

have incontinence?

163. veramente - December 24, 2009

meant: have incontinence?

164. nige - December 24, 2009

As the dying away of Nature into Wintertime comes, just this brief thought from W B Yeats –

“All my youth, I waved my flowers in the sun;
Now I wither into the Truth.”

(And many, if not almost all, would have to agree, REB has nothing to do with truth – he was, and is, always a liar.n.)

165. brucelevy - December 24, 2009

Here’s a term that RB’s “students” should become aware of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

166. ton - December 24, 2009

157 dick moron thanks for that — lol

160 whalerider re: the job application —

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5873505/

167. X-ray - December 25, 2009

166. ton – December 24, 2009

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5873505/

Great!
You have been accepted!

168. X-ray - December 25, 2009

Are you getting sick from DC’s posts?

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5875497/

169. nige - December 25, 2009

Great! I like these last three posts. Keep going guys…..Nigel.

170. X-ray - December 25, 2009
171. X-ray - December 25, 2009
172. No Goat - December 25, 2009

the videos were so funny that I thought I’d give it a try.

173. No Goat - December 25, 2009

I’ll have to keep trying: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5876667

174. nige - December 25, 2009

170 X-ray

I think many would do the same as you…..Nigel.

175. rock that boat - December 25, 2009

Merry Christmas

I love you all!!!!

176. X-ray - December 26, 2009

What else can we do to help beloved teacher?

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5876147/

177. Silentpurr - December 26, 2009

178. Silentpurr - December 26, 2009
179. Silentpurr - December 26, 2009

180. Another name. - December 26, 2009

Dear All

If you wonder who DC is….

He has a child(ren.)
He is somebody who talks 80% of the time and loves his own words.
He is a he, an American.
He lives in Oregon House
He likes to write and has a lot of time at hand
He has an identity in cardiac issues.

Anybody else has more observations?

The first 4 points to several males in the fellowship. The 2 last ones narrows it to a few.

It is not Girard as he follows the guidelines not to read the blog….ponder , ponder.

Who loves cardiac issues??????

Happy re- birthing in sync with nature.

181. Another name. - December 26, 2009

Arthur Schopenhauer’s wise observation: ‘All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident'”

182. nige - December 26, 2009

I am finding it difficult to ‘plug into the line of the blog’ at present. I make no apologies for the way I posted at end-November/early-December, but I was glad of the mature way that Steve handled the situation. I felt the way I did because of an ‘altered state’ (even seeing shapes in cloud formations – dragons etc.) and feeling both elated and aggressive launched the repetition of many things that had previously been posted. I think I often feel impatient with the way the FOF Discussion is still that – a discussion, since I, probably like many of us, want to see REB brought to justice. That cannot happen until a (or several) recently left student(s) want to bring an action against Burton. How is still the Big Problem. “It is to be thought on” (Henry V)……Nigel.

183. nige - December 26, 2009

Did not T—-s E—-y try to bring a case of lack of fiduciary responsibility? Something like that might ‘stick’…..Nigel.

184. Dr. Pangloss - December 26, 2009

OK Nige, you are now the sheriff, go get ’em and hang ’em high.

185. fofblogmoderator - December 27, 2009

172, 173, 180 & 181 are new

186. David Butcher - December 27, 2009

Dick Moron (157)

That was fucking awesome! Everybody that ever reads this blog needs to see it. The best thing I’ve seen on here in ages. Thank you!

187. X-ray - December 27, 2009

Whoever DC is, he is a real idiot.
It is a tragedy to have a husband and a father like this.

188. More history needed - December 27, 2009

Still 1563 people who are officially in the fellowship of friends.

Happy 2010.

189. Someone - December 27, 2009

brucelevy

Hi,

This is not meant to be offensive, on the contrary.

You left the FOF so many years ago? What the heck do you care so much about them after so many years? You seem like a FOF prisoner. This kind of prison is in the mind and it can be tougher than real grilles and bars. I know it for myself.

I know you have been sexually involved with RB and I’m sure it has been a real trauma for you. Still, at a certain point one has to let go.

I have been there way longer than you and I left not so long ago. I have not been involved with any sexual contacts with RB, but I have had my share of real poverty there.

Currently, in spite of the economical depression I’m doing great.

Lately I started loosening my obsessive collection of information about the FOF. I just defined some deletion rules on my Outlook in order not to receive certain e-mails.

What I can tell you about recent developments in the FOF is that RB is gradually stepping out and some members say that in a year time he won’t be there anymore. I don’t know if the FOF will continue to exist after RB or not, but frankly who cares?

190. fofblogmoderator - December 27, 2009

186 & 188 are new

191. nige - December 27, 2009

184 Dr Pangloss/189 Someone

Many of you know the disorder I share (?) with Elena and how that was the main thing with which I had to grapple after coming out of the FOF. Yes, we could all let go, but both Elena and I firmly believe that cults must be unmasked, if not stopped from operating, however grand and spiritual might be their sheep’s clothing. Every little ‘dig’ at the Burtonistic Atmosphere might dislodge a current member and I would say to your (Someone’s) ‘but frankly who cares?’ – if we did not care, why the hell would we be blogging, unless, of course there is an addiction or personality disorder connected to that, as well…..Nigel.

192. Renald - December 27, 2009

“– if we did not care, why the hell would we be blogging, unless, of course there is an addiction or personality disorder connected to that, as well…..Nigel.“
Now you put your finger on it. We used to call those addictions identifications. Cheers!

193. Someone - December 27, 2009

191. nige
192. Renald

Please do not twist what I said. I said that I do not care if after RB’s time, the FOF continues to exist. Why should I care?

Some people here are suffering more than others. I care a lot more about them and myself having a life than about fighting against cults.

It is especially true in a case when a person has left18-20 years ago and has been a member for a relatively short period of time.

Objectively speaking, fhe FOF is a relatively small and less harmful cult if one compares it to some big dangerous organizations like the Scientology church.

RB is getting older and has already started the process of stepping aside. I have heard that AB and DM are frequently replacing him in events.

So maybe it is time for those who are psychologically more confined or obsessed with the FOF to start letting go. Life is too short and maybe it is time to move on.

194. brucelevy - December 27, 2009

193. Someone

Well, then by all means, please move on. Your concern for me is completely misplaced and delusional. As for your personal view of RB and the FOF, I for one don’t give a shit, nor is it even close to accurate or useful. You are a concern troll whose only purpose is to obfuscate and justify your own view, and reinforce what you think is an objective view. From your first appearance here it’s pretty clear where you stand and where you are blind.

195. paul g - December 27, 2009

What’s the ‘chopstick interpretation,’ please, mr BlogModerator? I can’t find any reference to it in previous posts…

196. Dr. Pangloss - December 27, 2009

193. Someone
“Some people here are suffering more than others. I care a lot more about them and myself having a life than about fighting against cults.”

“here” meaning where exactly? The Blog, Oregon House, The Galleria, Moscow, Hell??

“RB is getting older and has already started the process of stepping aside. I have heard that AB and DM are frequently replacing him in events.”

I guess you have not actually “been there way longer than you ..” or you would know that Burton did the same disappearing act about 30 years ago giving the front man roles to some guys named Miles and Girard. This was mainly because he did not relish dealing with the day-to-day work his job as head of the Church required. He would rather just spend church money and try and suck as much church dick as he could.

Why do you think this is any different. He only started to “teach” again as a business strategy (charging to attend) and he will now “step aside”, as you say, because he is a such a liability for the retention of members in the Fellowship of Friends (largely due to the true stories told on this Blog). Let’s see him “step aside” from the money and boy-meat.

When will you let go? When will you just move on? Life is too short to worry about other people’s interest in this Blog.

197. Alexander McKenzie - December 27, 2009

Here in Finland, seniors older than 67 go to computer classes to learn the basics of ‘Internet surfing’, ’email’ and the ubiquitous ‘blogosphere’. It doesn’t take long before they become active in doing what it takes. Does Burton have any ‘hands-on-experience’ when it comes to dealing with these matters? Has he been posting here? Is it possible that one (or maybe more than one) of these posters here is indeed Burton Himself?
If he hasn’t posted, I think he should!
BURTON, SPEAK UP!

198. Silentpurr - December 28, 2009

Weeeee are the ghoooosts from the Fellowshiiiiiips passsst! Is our Presence a little uncomfortable for you? Well so be it!

199. Craig Dockter - December 28, 2009

43. brucelevy – December 14, 2009

38. Daily Cardiac

I have rarely come across someone who is as full of shit as you are. You’re a sick puppy.

Donald Walters (aka “Swami” Kriyananda) is equally
full of shit. He has a whole group of shit-on’s up
yonder in North San Juan.

Go to: http://www.anandainfo.com

200. veramente - December 28, 2009

189 Someone

Getting rid of the obsessive collections of FOF material does not prove you are moving on.
IMO I believe that when you become concerned with the real tragedy that has happened to many and continues to happen in OH and around the world because of the Fellowship of Friends/Patway of Presence, you can then say you moved on and have truly depogrammed yourself, including from being somewhat numb.

201. dick moron - December 28, 2009

186. David Butcher

A happy new year to you, my friend.
I’m glad I could evoke a good laugh from some (especially you).
Sometimes laughing at the unbelievable stench of bullshit is the best first action to agilely moving away from the sticky pile you find your foot on top of…

202. X-ray - December 28, 2009

Why don’t you use the toilet instead?

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5882343/

203. Associated Press - December 28, 2009

Top reasons Robert Earl Burton will live in Afghanistan rather than Egypt or Mexico.

With all due respect to this post:
75/40. WhaleRider – June 30, 2009:

‘Re: Burton’s villa under construction In Luxor, Egypt.

Why Luxor?

Hmmm…

The “Luxor Temple”…is known in the Egyptian language as ipet resyt, or “the southern harem”.

When I visited the Luxor Temple a couple of years ago, I noted in a section of the temple called the “holiest of the holy”, there is a wall engraving of priests milking semen from a man’s erect penis in some kind of temple ritual. (Unfortunately, it was too dark for photos and a flash would have washed out the image or I would post it.)
[Here it is:

– Picture of the god Amun (aka: Amun-Re or Min) during the fertility festival or Opet Festival (‘Opet’ meaning ‘Secret Chamber’ so it is: “The Festival of the Secret Chamber” – private sanctuary, the holy of holies.) The god is making a donation while priest makes collection.]

As my guide, Mohammed, pointed out, you can see the wall is stained from years of women touching the penis as a fertility charm apparently in order to get pregnant.

There was no literal indication in the engraving of whether the semen was used in the ritual or simply discarded, symbolic of some greater truth, or if it was consumed as a condiment in a temple dinner or sipped as an after-dinner aperitif, or maybe even just used as a hair gel, and I neglected to ask my guide. We were left to our imagination.

Burton is a man of some means who will go to great lengths to justify his mania. You can see from his choice of trees both on and surrounding the property. . .’

Reason 1.: Egypt and Mexico have extradition treaties with United States.
Reason 2.: Afghanistan does not have extradition treaty with United States.
Reason 3.: But more importantly, see next post.

So, you see, there is this phallicy about Egypt or Mexico. Just two choices; that would be formatory.
Sorry about the length and the several posts here.

204. Associated Press - December 28, 2009

Top reasons Robert Earl Burton will live in Afghanistan rather than Egypt or Mexico. Continued:

Reason 3 Robert Earl Burton will live in Afghanistan:
The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan
(#2807) PBS/Frontline
Original Air Date: 19 January 2010
(Season 28, Episode 1)
Be sure to watch it.

An Afghan journalist investigates a sexual exploitation ring that trades young boys for sex.

In Afghanistan today, in the midst of war and endemic poverty, an ancient tradition – banned when the Taliban were in power – has re-emerged across the country: Many hundreds of boys, often as young as ten, are being lured off the streets on the promise of a new life, many unaware that their real fate is to be used for entertainment and sex. They’re the “Bacha Bereesh,”* literally “beardless boys,” chosen for their height, size and beauty, trained to sing and dance for male audiences, and then traded for sexual favors among former warlords and powerful businessmen. With remarkable access inside a sexual exploitation ring operating in Northern Afghanistan, Najibullah Quraishi, an Afghan journalist, investigates this illegal practice, talking with the boys and their masters and documenting how the Afghan authorities responsible for stopping these crimes are sometimes themselves complicit in the practice.

* Bacchá:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacch%C3%A1

More in next post.

205. Associated Press - December 28, 2009

Reason 3 (continued): Robert Earl Burton will live in Afghanistan rather than Egypt or Mexico:
The dancing boys of Afghanistan
By Ghaith Abdul-Ahad
The Guardian, Saturday 12 September 2009:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/12/dancing-boys-afghanistan

More in next post.

206. Associated Press - December 28, 2009

Reason 3 (continued): Robert Earl Burton will live in Afghanistan rather than Egypt or Mexico:
Ignored by society, Afghan dancing boys suffer centuries-old tradition
By Atia Abawi
CNN, October 27, 2009
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/10/26/ctw.afghanistan.sex.trade/index.html

More in next post.

207. Associated Press - December 28, 2009

Top reasons Robert Earl Burton will live in Afghanistan rather than Egypt or Mexico. Continued:

Reason 4.:
If you’re looking for a place in need of a new civilization, Afghanistan, is made to order. Time for regime change? But, be careful, war is a pretext for all sorts of criminal activity; like: drug trafficking, human slave trading, weapons smuggling, money laundering, corruption, human rights abuse, false imprisonment, election fraud, genocide, molestation, murder and mayhem. But, then, some of these things the Phalluship of Phiends (Pathway to Penis) is already very familiar with and IT will feel right at home. The access to sexual exploitation of young boys should out weigh all other considerations. What a way to go, Robert! A pasha’s palace for promoting and prolonging presence (as well as plenty of penis) is the next page in your paltry play!

Anybody have some other reasons that Afghanistan, or somewhere else, is a good destination? Please post your ideas here.

208. fofblogmoderator - December 28, 2009

195 & 197 are new

regarding 195; I have no idea what the chopstick interpretation is. If anybody out there does know and would care to share……

209. X-ray - December 28, 2009

Was Burton posting on the Blog?

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5883535/

210. paul g - December 28, 2009

145

‘Now it is careering downwards at an ever increasing pace. I thought the rhino poo quote could never be surpassed for absurdity but now we have the totally mad chopsticks interpretation. What follows will no doubt be astonishing.’

Damn. I was looking forward to that. But how could you write ‘the totally mad chopsticks interpretation’ and not know what it is?

Oh right! Sorry. It was written by ‘Nuthead’.

211. Someone - December 29, 2009

194. brucelevy

I am sorry if I have offended you. That was not my intention.
The simple fact is that 20 years after leaving, you are still obsessed with the FOF. That’s like doing time…

I am seriously working on reducing my obsession with the FOF. I enter this blog every few months for a few days. I stopped receiving all FOF related e-mails. And most important of all, I can see 2-3 weeks passing without a single thought about the FOF.

A few days ago upon entering the blog I felt I have gone through a healing process (the simple meaning of healing without triads & stuff). I still have some curiosity and memories, but it is subsiding steadily.

I am not preaching to anyone. There have been times when I was in close friendships with some of you here and I appreciate that very much.

212. brucelevy - December 29, 2009

211. Someone

Preaching is exactly what you’re doing. But knock yourself out. You know absolutely nothing about me or what makes up my life. Your only experience with me is what I write here. Your interpretation of the weight of the FOF in my life is your own concocted and distorted opinion. You have much to say on that which you know nothing. Which is pretty much the M.O. for most members, and ex-members who are actually still members in their own bent way. Your preaching is unwanted, based on your delusions, and sounds like someone who wished they were “in” but can’t pay the price, and so has to create some kind of imaginary worth by defending the defenseless.

213. Wouldnt You Like To Know - December 29, 2009

87/#195. paul g – December 27, 2009:

‘What’s the ‘chopstick interpretation,’ please, mr BlogModerator? I can’t find any reference to it in previous posts…’

87/#208. fofblogmoderator – December 28, 2009:

‘I have no idea what the chopstick interpretation is. If anybody out there does know and would care to share…’

87/145. fofblogmoderator – December 21, 2009:

‘Looking back, here’s a post from “Nuthead”, Dec. 19, 2007’

and

‘Now it is careering [careening] downwards at an ever increasing pace. I thought the rhino poo quote could never be surpassed for absurdity but now we have the totally mad chopsticks interpretation. What follows will no doubt be astonishing.’

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

So, here is the poop (no allusion to animal poopings in prehistoric cave paintings intended), the poop on the ‘chopsticks interpretation.’

1) ‘Chop Sticks’ and/or ‘ChopSticks’ (possible other variations on the spelling) was/were posting to the blog from April 2007 (page 7) until July 2007 (page 15). You can go back and read all the dialog, if you are so inclined to spend your time that way. The name was possibly coined from an interpretation about ‘chopsticks’ that was made by, and/or attributed to, Robert Earl Burton, either at a meeting and/or possibly over dinner – like at a Chinese restaurant. Things like this are repeated often and become part of the Fellowship of Friends (Pathway to Presence) mythology.

2) Here is the likely key (no allusion to ‘keying,’ or knowing, the hidden meanings of things, intended), key postings.:

Page 27/#327, December 16, 2007, Ollie:

‘And maybe also this one (from Nov 25, 2007)…

“The Egyptian obelisk later became the Islamic minaret. In the East, the obelisk became chopsticks. A Zen Master said, ‘Thank you. I am satisfied; I have laid down my chopsticks’ – short Be and long BE.”’

Commentary:
The ‘short Be and long BE’ refers to the sequence practice that the Fellowship has adopted to promote and prolong presence.
Example:
Be: short Be.
HOLD: prolong the be-ing from Be.
THEME: Subject defined from the 30 imperishable (single syllable) work I’s.
BACK: return to being present and/or the THEME.
THEME: Intonate same THEME from above, again.
BE: LONG BE; achieve a longer state of presence.

There are six steps to the sequence. The begin is ‘short Be’ and the end is ‘LONG BE;’ the alpha and the omega, if you will. The ‘laying down of the chopsticks’ means to stop doing the mechanical, like, for instance, eating, (recognizing the lower self) and commence doing the sequence. What the Egyptian obelisk, Islamic minaret, and chopsticks, have to do with the sequence or ‘short Be and long BE’ would definitely stretch your being. I would postulate that they are phallic symbols and, as has been interpreted by Fellowship doctrine in the past, ‘short Be and long BE’ represent the two states that that part of male anatomy can assume; sort or long. Promoting and prolonging presence then becomes associated with ‘LONG BE,’ if you get the meaning here. Or, it is what Robert does after dinner; gets some LONG BE.

Page 27/#333, December 17, 2007, Traveler:

‘Ollie (27/326,327) – please tell me you’re making this up? Chopsticks? ROTFL [rolling on the floor laughing] On the other hand, it’s too bizarre to be made up. What a case study in boiling a frog. It’s not even funny to make fun of the guy any more, he is so beyond the pale.’

Page 27/#351, December 17, 2007, leonhardon:

‘“The Egyptian obelisk later became the Islamic minaret. In the East, the obelisk became chopsticks. A Zen Master said, ‘Thank you. I am satisfied; I have laid down my chopsticks’ – short Be and long BE. In the West the Obelisk became a knife and fork. An Anglican Bishop said, “Thanks, I’m really full up now, I have put my plate and flatware in the sink and will do the washing up later”. Short Be and Long Be, our beautiful Rose Garden, Turkish Delight, a blow job, I’m bonkers. Thank you my darlings.”’

See 87/#145 for the full Nuthead post that followed the above. It was made originally December 19, 2007, at page 27/#388.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Of course, everything in the environment could be ‘keyed’ and associated to the sequence, the 30 work I’s, ‘short Be and long BE,’ numerology, etc., as the psychotic mindsets have expanded.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Also worthy of note is this post:

Page 10/#515, June 5th, 2007, 2b:

‘When Chopsticks asked, “How do ‘Cave drawings’ images help you to Self Remember?”

Howard Carter replied (390):

“The theory is that all schools are the same school; they communicate with their future counterparts through the works they leave behind. Apparently the rust of sleep is so encrusted that we need to keep hearing the same thing said many ways to stir the emotions sufficiently to shake that rust away.”

Howard:
Chopsticks did not ask you: “Why are there many different schools throughout history?”

Nowhere in your answer do you address the connection between Self Remembering and cave drawings. But I can understand why you’d evade that one. Very difficult question to answer, isn’t it?

You know, on the face of it, I have no inherent resistance to the idea that ancient cave drawings may have esoteric significance. I’ve spent much of my adult life being fascinated with archaeology, history, and ancient knowledge. This is one of the reasons that I was drawn to the Fellowship of Friends in the first place. However, when we state that we know the meaning behind cave drawings, and that we know something about the people who drew them, this is where you are losing me.

(Interesting idea, isn’t it? — the idea that the school can “lose us”, just as much as we can “lose the school.”)

Few of us are impressed when supposed esoteric connections with ancient works of art are pulled from thin air with no attempt to explain the significance of the art in a coherent, reasonable way…

… other than, “Robert Burton said it, so it must be true.”

We each recall experiencing certain emotions while viewing works of art, and this in turn made us receptive to the idea that a Rembrandt, Da Vinci, or other pieces of art may contain “higher hydrogens” that can help us awaken. But is this idea owned by the Fellowship of Friends? No, not at all. But at the same time, many of us appreciated that “higher” works of art may actually help our souls.

It made sense to our souls.

Howard and friends, tell us what touches your soul. Could it be that you have lost track of that? I don’t believe you have lost track of that, but when I see the continued certainty — and the lack of any sense of mystery about these things — I do wonder.’

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

This ‘Howard Carter’ character was a poster that had an almost identical mind set to that of this Daily Cardiac character. It was likely a spoof of the name Howard Carter:

‘Howard Carter (9 May 1874 – 2 March 1939) was an English archaeologist and Egyptologist, noted as a primary discoverer of the tomb of Tutankhamun.’ Wikipedia.

The tomb, supposedly?, had the inscription on the outside that read something like: ‘Woe unto anyone that disturbs my tomb.’ And, that gave birth to the ‘curse of the mummy’ idea. But, Howard Carter lived a long successful life and was even reincarnated onto the Fellowship Blog. The FoF blog Howard Carter apparently did have the ‘curse of the mummy’ and bit the dust long ago. Let’s hope for the same for DC.

So, there you have it, playing chopsticks.

214. Someone - December 29, 2009

212. brucelevy

I do not pretend to know anything about your life, yet the amount of rage you express here indicate a serious obsession with the FOF.
I think you are trying to hide it from yourself by being aggressive and blunt towards anyone who has a different approach.

Yes, I have parts in me that are missing some pleasant aspects in the FOF, but this is mere nostalgia. I am much better now outside the FOF and I never had a serious moment of regret and I don’t have any intention to go back, not even a reflection.

I share much of the criticism against RB with anyone else here, especially regarding his sexual misconduct, yet it is completely legitimate to bring up the question of ex-members being obsessed with the FOF. So far I have not seen any discussion about this matter.

It is not less legitimate than any other recycled stuff against the FOF appearing here for hundreds of times.

215. Jomo Piñata - December 29, 2009

214/Someone

Not sure why you would think Cussin’ Brucie, or anybody else posting here for that matter, is “obsessed with the FOF,” based on the extremely narrow slice of their lives that is reflected in their posts to this blog.

Understand that people go away and go on with their lives. After the initial detox period and a somewhat longer period of processing, they may not think of their experiences in FOF more than a scattered few times over many years. But social networking has given us all some new opportunities, including the opportunity to say what happened to us and to reevaluate what happened to us, and to call bad actors and toxic circumstances by their true names. And that–in my experience–is empowering, and promotes healing.

Obsession? No. Just responsible adulthood.

216. Yesri Baba - December 29, 2009

” I am much better now outside the FOF and I never had a serious moment of regret and I don’t have any intention to go back, not even a reflection.”

Gee, I’ve been regretting being exposed to that evil bullshit for 30 years so I think you’re a fucking retarded brainwashed shill.

217. ton - December 29, 2009

re: someone’s comments —

one of the keys is reconciliation. the individual experiences of biography if viewed “holistically” include past, present and future as ONE…. it’s a continuum of experience and to think in terms of past vs present vs future is a result of seeing the whole through a fragmented lens. the past informs the present informs the future informs the present informs the past… etc, etc.

something else that needs the application of reconciliation is
our existence as individuals in a collective context…. individuality in a collectivity, where lies the balancing point? i read something earlier today:

“We think of ourselves as individuals, my sins are my own, My neighbor’s sins are his problem…. (but) Every joy, every sorrow, every good, every evil belongs to all. All are responsible for all. All are dependent upon all. Humanity is one.”

what sort of thinking/actions distances the individual from fully realizing his/her humanity?

218. Someone - December 29, 2009

215. Jomo Piñata

“But social networking has given us all some new opportunities, including the opportunity to say what happened to us and to reevaluate what happened to us…”

I see what you wrote as language laundering. The simple reality is that if one has left the FOF 20 years ago after being there for a relatively short time and is still so furious about it, then one is convoluted by great obsession.

Explaining such obsession by ascribing it to social networking opportunities is quite ridiculous.

Writing in this blog carries very useful curing elements, but it also leads to deepening peoples’ mind-occupation with the FOF. The true evidences against RB actions are quite sufficient for going against him and the FOF, yet this blog contains so many fictions and make up stories that never took place (from direct personal knowledge) that one wonders what good does this kind of writing is doing to ex-members.

If revenge is the name of the game, than I say that at a certain point revenge becomes identical to obsession.

219. fofblogmoderator - December 29, 2009

#218…….”yet this blog contains so many fictions and make up stories that never took place (from direct personal knowledge) that one wonders what good does this kind of writing is doing to ex-members.”

Please share with us some of the “so many fictions”. I’m quite curious

220. ton - December 29, 2009

someone, you write:

“…this blog contains so many fictions and make up stories that never took place (from direct personal knowledge) that one wonders what good does this kind of writing is doing to ex-members.”

it’s good of you to be so concerned with the welfare of ex-members… now i’ll take my tongue from my cheek and ask you a question: would you give some examples of the “many fictions and make up stroies that never took place…”
?

regarding “revenge” — YOU speak (write) as if you are trying to protect and shield someone or something from the “revenge” of the blog…. what’s up with that?

personally, i don’t know about the “revenge” angle here but i think there’s something to be said FOR a process of revealing truth while exposing deceit, deception and secrecy to the light of day…. would you call that “revenge”?

221. Jomo Piñata - December 29, 2009

218/Someone

Oops, I was wrong. You are a shill.

222. brucelevy - December 29, 2009

220. ton, 221. Jomo Piñata

My feelings are that someone joined because of the need for a codependent relationship. Having failed that, and having left, the codependency is just as strong and needy. She’s defending her ex-codependent partner (FOF) for the same reason an abused and ignorant wife will continue to defend her imprisoned husband.

Her reference to “many fictions and make up stories that never took place…”
just shows complete refusal to accept facts as they are, and perhaps some utter stupidity. This is another person who requires the attention, yet it is a totally futile endeavor to speak to this person’s inner self, because there is none. Just another permutation of DC.

223. Ames Gilbert - December 29, 2009

Somebody, I take it that it is proving difficult to drop your role as “older student”? My sympathies. And, are you sure you are not just merely following the fashion, now that Obama has made “Don’t look back, look forward” so popular?
If you can indeed identify the ‘so many fictions and make up stories from direct personal knowledge’, I strongly encourage you to go right ahead. What have you got to lose? And readers have a lot to gain if Somebody like you can clear things up. You could help that process along considerably by also telling us who you are; that would surely add credibility to your claims, wouldn’t it? Otherwise, we who are necessarily unaware of your special gravitas and authority would have to just lump you in with the other anonymice so prevalent here as we circle the drain to nowhere together.

Revisiting the past—sorry, Somebody, I mean, moving right ahead—here are some contributions from Burton to ponder as we transition into a new decade.
Step up, step up, folks! All the wisdom of the ages right here, folks, from the exclusive inheritor of 150,000 years of accumulated knowledge! Appointed by the 44, folks, none other!
Read what the mighty self–described goddess Burton, the brightest light in 2000 years, recently arrived from one cockfest and obviously eager to return to another right after, had to say at a meeting just a few days ago:
”There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.”
Robert’s Comment: Here the animals represent the sequence. “There went in two and two” – the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths – “into the ark” – the nine of hearts – “the male and the female” – the steward and the nine of hearts – “as God had commanded Noah” – as the third eye had commanded the steward. “And it came to pass after seven days” – seventh heaven – “that the waters of the flood were upon the earth” – that the four wordless breaths appeared. At long BE, the “cup runneth over” with the four wordless breaths. A painting by Jan Brueghel the Elder in the Getty Center depicts The Entry of the Animals into Noah’s Ark (1613). At Apollo we have virtually all of the animals portrayed here. To the right of the clump of trees is a pair of camels and ostriches. In front of them are two peacocks, while behind them are water buffalo. To their right is a bear or a boar, behind which is a deer. In front of the camels are several cows and goats, and perhaps a llama as well. We also have the turkey, shown in the foreground. We do not have the felines, but we do have mountain lions and bobcats in our area. It is quite interesting, is it not? A pre-dynastic vase is painted with six sets of wavy lines coming down, with four streams in each. At the top are four little holes. The cup “runneth over.”

”Lift your thoughts to a more blessed hope, gaze at the heavens as they turn about, immortal and adorned.”
Robert’s Comment: “Lift your (sequential) thoughts to a more blessed hope, gaze at the heavens as they turn about” – the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths – “immortal and adorned” – with divine presence. The four wordless breaths are hope realized. A painting by El Greco in the National Gallery, Prague, depicts the Head of Christ (1595). It is a very deep painting of a steward completing his sequence and supporting the four wordless breaths. In his right eye is a sun, and in his left eye is a moon, which sounds like “Amun.” His nose is a narrow gate. Christ’s square halo is quite a gift to us. El Greco was not the only artist to use this motif, but he does it quite often. Here we see a pair of Italian baroque gilt figures holding a vase (17th-early 18th century). The figure on the right is short Be, while the one on the left is long BE. It is marvelous for showing the vase as an egg, which they hold with four fingers on each hand. The thumb is in time, while the four fingers are out of time.

”How art thou a king/But by fair sequence and succession?”
Robert’s Comment: “How art thou a king” – a steward – “but by fair sequence” – the six minimal work ‘I’s – “and succession” – the four wordless breaths. “Fair” is long BE. The Rainbow Portrait by Isaac Oliver, in the Hatfield House, England, depicts Queen Elizabeth I holding a rainbow (ca. 1600). Here we see Elizabeth as the white queen. With four fingers of her right hand she holds a rainbow, which consists of seven colors – a symbol of seventh heaven. She has combusted. This is the recently discovered Cobbe Portrait of Shakespeare (ca. 1610). It has been accepted by the most important scholar in the field as the only authentic portrait of Shakespeare done in his lifetime. His collar forms a square, and his head a circle, like the sculpture in Goethe’s garden. His ears and lips are reddish, listening to the sequence and combusting. He has twelve buttons on his tunic, and a luminous square on his brow. His eyes are quite interesting. His left eye is looking to the left, at the ten thousand ‘I’s, while his right eye is looking at the four wordless breaths. A Mesoamerican statue depicts a seated youth with his thumb placed over his five toes. His left eye looks straight ahead, while his right eye looks to the right, like Shakespeare in his portrait.

”Thou, O Spirit, that dost prefer/Before all temples the upright heart and pure,/Instruct me, for Thou knowest.”
Robert’s Comment: “Thou, O Spirit” – the third eye – “that dost prefer/Before all temples the upright heart and pure” – the temple he prefers is an upright and pure nine of hearts – “instruct me, for Thou knowest” – the best theme for a sequence. The façade of the Carthusian monastery in Jerez de la Frontera, Spain, displays four large statues at the bottom, forming a square (17th century). That is its principal message. Above the four statues are two smaller ones, showing six and four. Similarly, the Erechtheum in Athens displays four caryatids in the front, and two in the back. First you see six, and then you see four. It is the same with the façade of the monastery: first you see six statues making a square, and then four.”

Confused yet? Me, too. Imagine all this delivered in a soft, breathy monotone, with the utter certainty only long years of self–deception and uncritical adoration by followers can bring. Imagine being surrounded by fellow–followers in an ecstatic trance. On and on and on. Though, after a time I wouldn’t be at all surprised if followers were to start thinking, “Enough, enough, I’ll verify anything you claim—if only you’ll make it stop!”

224. Ames Gilbert - December 29, 2009

Sorry, Somebody, I meant to address Someone in #223 above, not you. My apologies to you both!

225. Dennis - December 29, 2009

A metaphor that I find useful for processing past experiences is that my life is a bus and all the events are passengers on my bus. Some of the passengers are sweet and I keep them right up front and some of them are ugly and I tell them to go to the back and stay there. It is impossible to get rid of any passengers, once they are on my bus they are on my bus. Events in my life activate certain passengers and they come to the front of the bus and give me a hard time. I can either spend my time trying to get them to go back to their seats or I can just accept them. But the important thing is whether I let them drive my bus.

Someone, what I hear former students here reporting is that RB and his misuse of Gurdjieff’s teaching, are no longer driving their bus.

226. WhaleRider - December 29, 2009

***Top Secret***

FOR EYES ONLY

Fellowship of Cyborgs, Inc.

To: All studentbots
From: Robot Borgton
Re: Recent Cyber-Attacks

We are very aware of the recent attacks in cyberspace upon the mental processors of current studentbots who come in contact with escaped ex-studentbots displaying virtuosity whom also have been infected by the deadly C1B1 virus.

Unfortunately, there were some early shame programming flaws that caused a major failure in the self-destruct mechanisms of some rogue ex-studentbots who had escaped long ago, and many have continued to thrive independently. Now they seem to be organizing and planning more cyber-attacks.

Be assured that the recent gayware upgrades in all studentbots will keep you immune from this very contagious virus, which is easily transmitted through the sharing of non-sequential fluid thought.

We are doing everything in our power to shield studentbots from any dangerous thinking which is the reason your implanted RAM chips have been systematically re-calibrated to a narrow window of perception, otherwise known as the divine present.

As a countermeasure, someone has anonymously infiltrated their ranks in order to release anti-critical thought devices code-named “obsessionX” which defocuses and defuses the moral outrage of escaped ex-studentbots by causing debilitating self-doubt and extreme survivor guilt.

Semen production has increased by 44% since last month. Keep it up!

(for ton)

227. Ill Never Tell - December 29, 2009

223. Ames Gilbert:

Ames, God’s honest truth, you must have made that up! It is too bizarre to have really happened! But, then, what was that thing I think Robert used to say?, ‘The Truth is stranger than fiction.’ ROTFL [rolling on the floor laughing] Bwaaaahaha! And, they all do it straight faced and serious like.

228. Ames Gilbert - December 29, 2009

It’s hard to imagine Christ distributing Viagra, sucking off a few young heterosexual male disciples, then skipping off to address the crowd with words like those above, going on to feast like Herod and drink wine that would have made even the Emperor Augustus jealous, and finishing off the day with yet more Viagra and a late night orgy, isn’t it? Yet Burton claims that he, living a life of unrestrained debauchery and self–indulgence, a remorseless sexual predator, is the natural successor to the man who lived simply and said simply, “Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. This is the essence of the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 7:12), and, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:39), the one whose birthday many of us just celebrated.

229. Tatyana - December 29, 2009

“His ears and lips are reddish, listening to the sequence and combusting”

LOL! My ears are combusting too…

230. Silentpurr - December 29, 2009

I am thinking that fof students are coming to an awareness that time and distance are necessary in freeing oneself of the poisonous pedagogy of Robert Burton and the fellowship……It is like having spent the whole time faithfully in one’s cocoon, only to emerge with no wings! Where are my promised wings? Oh that’s right, there were no promises……..With good seduction no promises are needed. And with accepting yourself, no wings are needed. Being human is miraculous enough in this lifetime. And there may be only one………

231. Vena - December 30, 2009

Re: #223
It is trully impossible to understand how anyone listening to that jibberish could remain in the Fellowship. What could they be thinking and how do they explain it to themselves?

232. X-ray - December 30, 2009

218. Someone – December 29, 2009

Someone,
I have told you that already, but your last few posts have forced me to repeat it once again to you.
You are a full of shit fucking asshole, who plays here same exactly role as DC. You are a shill, who’s role to delude and distort the truth about cock sucker Robert Burton, which is now out in the open.
And I would end my very short responce to you by saying FUCK YOU!

233. X-ray - December 30, 2009

#218…….”yet this blog contains so many fictions and make up stories that never took place (from direct personal knowledge) that one wonders what good does this kind of writing is doing to ex-members.”

I have told you that already…

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5887803/

234. WonderingWhosWatching - December 30, 2009

Hey, everybody, time for a meeting! This is exciting news. I just learned, from a very reliable source – a board member, that The Teacher is going to make a personal appearance here on the blog and take questions from anyone who wants to ask.

With all due respect toward what X-ray has stated, The Teacher is not a moron that can only count to 44 and can only read license plates. When X-ray was about to leave the Fellowship of Friends, he, The Teacher, actually said, ‘There’s X-ray sitting on a fence, trying to make a dollar out of ninety-nine cents.’ It even rhymes. How smart is that! As a fourth grade elementary school teacher, you’ve got to have something on the ball, know a few tricks, and be capable of hugging the boys too much. Plan is that The Teacher will even type at keyboard! There is more to The Work than thirty imperishable single syllable work I’s, you know.

When will this happen, you might ask? This will happen on Thursday, December 31, 2009, at 11:13 am Pacific Time. And, just as a hint as to why it will happen then, the next two future possible reappearances are scheduled for Friday, August 31, 2012, and then Friday, July 31, 2015. Whoever can guess correctly why these three particular dates will ‘make a dollar out of ninety-nine cents’ – and no more teaching payments for life. And, you will be entered into a drawing to determine who asks the first question! So says The Teacher!

235. WonderingWhosWatching - December 30, 2009

Sorry, I made an error in above post: ‘a board member’ should read: ‘a bored member.’

236. 411 - December 30, 2009

Here’s something I read today:

“Nothing exists outside nature and man, and the higher beings our religious fantasies have created are only the fantastic reflection of our own essence.…”

237. Bares Reposting - December 30, 2009

18/#39: 09 Aug 2007, Purchasing awakening:

NECKLACE:
A necklace made of thirty bear and lion teeth was found in France, and dates to approximately 12,000 BP (Before Present – it’s Burton’s way of counting – P.A.) It represents the thirty “imperishable stars”—the thirty great work ‘I’s engaging the four wordless breaths. Among the teeth are two shells, representing short Be and long BE, while the four large teeth represent the four wordless breaths. (A Tibetan statue depicts Milarepa showing his twenty-eight teeth, which along with his two lips, representing Be and Hold, add up to thirty.) All schools come down to this: the four wordless breaths—presence without words. It all comes down
to your ability to do this personally, your responsibility to use the sequence personally.

STAG’S ANTLERS:
In a rock painting from the Lascaux cave, dating from 15,000-13,000 BP, the stag has two antlers with nine points on each, representing the control of the seventy-two passions. There is no telling how many conscious beings the prehistoric schools have produced.

THREE MONKEYS:
A seventeenth-century wood-carving from the temple in Nikko, Japan depicts three monkeys, representing the three Be’s. They are working hard to not be distracted from their sequence. The monkey covering his ears represents the first coming; the monkey covering his eyes represents the second coming; the monkey covering his mouth represents the middle coming. Around them are leaves, representing previous successful sequences, with the three Be’s in the center.
*Monkeys are doing the sequence! Working hard not to be distracted! This is simply hilarious…C’mon guys at least RB got a sense of humor. Do you get it monkeys? JM, Fat one, Who the F-k Knows? This is just way too funny.

IBEX:
A rock painting depicting an ibex’s head, found in France, dates to 13,000 BP. The “ladder” between its two horns represents Be and Hold, while the four squares on the “ladder” represent the four wordless breaths. The white belly of the ibex may represent the lower self under control during the four wordless breaths.

DEVIL STEALING TIME
An advertisement shows the devil stealing an Omega watch. Although it is a modern image, it goes deep. Jesus said, “I am Alpha and Omega”—I am short Be and long BE. Similarly, Quetzalcoatl, which means “feathered serpent”—refers to short Be (the serpent) and long BE (the vulture). In this image, the lower self is attacking the sequence at omega—work ‘I’ number six. Be, Hold, Hear, Back, and Hear have all survived imagination, and there is only one more chance for the lower self to destroy the sequence—at work ‘I’ number six—long BE.

Much Laugh To You All!🙂

238. Someone - December 30, 2009

232. X-ray

You know why after being extremely poor I managed to stand on my feet within less than a year? It is because I managed to let others’ aggression stay outside myself. It’s a great quality for business and for life.

If what I wrote has evoked such rage and bluntness in you, it means that you are suppressing the truth. You have left the FOF and since then you are doing time in its mental prison. What a waste of time???!!!

I left after living in OH for years. Like anyone else, I had to adjust to the new life outside. It wasn’t easy and there is still some struggle, but the rule for success is: the farther you remove your mind from the FOF the better.

No matter how uneasy this may sound, I say to all of you, LET GO, MOVE ON, have a new & fresh life.

DC I must tell you that you are not an honest person.

239. brucelevy - December 30, 2009

238. Someone

You’re an idiot. But by all means, please move on and leave us all to our rage.

240. veramente - December 30, 2009

Someone 238
No matter how uneasy this may sound, I say to all of you, LET GO, MOVE ON, have a new & fresh life.
——————————————–
Some people are angry, perhaps their wounds are still fresh and need more time for healing, some others like me feel no wounds anymore, but I remember what was wrong , serioulsy wrong in the FOF and continues to be so to the present day .

Being angry is good! it is part of the healing process. It does not need to be a mental prison at all.

Someone maybe you have stuffed your anger, or do not want to admit something. You seem to try to come here to blog to try prove something for yourself, that you are right somehow…

241. X-ray - December 30, 2009

238. Someone – December 30, 2009

Someone,
That’s all I have to say to you..

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5888577/

242. veramente - December 30, 2009

Continuing on anger…
it’s fuel and energy to do something, to break stagnation, to wake up from being numbed and abused.
I am not actively angry at the FOF but the very thought of it makes me angry because the Cult continues to live, after so many years it’s indeed a shame.
Someone, let me ask you this: if there was a civil law suit against Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway to Presence would you join it? If it was extremely easy to take a step to bring the Cult down, would you participate?

243. no goat - December 30, 2009

I think that’s a good question veramente, if you’re trying to determince whether “someone” is a shill or not. Personally, I’m generally ok with “someone’s” attitude. Maybe “someone” didn’t experience the atrocities that others did and they have chosen to move on without anger. Do we have to have active anger to post? I’ve been focusing on my life since leaving in ’85 and I don’t harbor anger, but I would participate in bringing the bastard Burton to justice. He deserves it and those still under his illusion deserve our help.

244. Renald - December 30, 2009

…since when does losing law suits do anything to decrease the popularity of cults like the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway To Presence?

Pushing against them is equivalent to giving them energy and attention. People just automatically figure that the opposite of what is published is true, well at least half of them anyways.
Oh, and for the blog cult members,
save your breath, I am not a shill or any other kind of advocate.
If you want to rant and rave here, that is your business of course and go for it. If I want to check from time to time to see if someone I know, old friends, have posted, then that is my business too.

Cheers!

245. veramente - December 30, 2009

no goat 243

Do we have to have active anger to post? I’ve been focusing on my life since leaving in ‘85 and I don’t harbor anger, but I would participate in bringing the bastard Burton to justice. He deserves it and those still under his illusion deserve our help.

—-
no, none of the active self distructive anger.
You do not have to eat your liver when it comes to the Fellowship and at any other time really.
Glad to hear you would participate to bring Burton down.

246. veramente - December 30, 2009

244 Renald

with your cheer attitude you seem to kind of pride yourself that you are above the rest here…”we’ are all ranting and raving while you smile from the mountain top or your floating balloon…dropping a visit every once in a while to check in some of your old friends.

247. WhaleRider - December 30, 2009

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Burtons’ spin:

To “do” someone is to have sex with them while they remain passive. A Grecian Urn dating 300 B.C. depicts an elderly man, possibly Socrates, having conscious sex with several cavorting young boys. If the Early Greeks did it, it must be OK. “Do” is also the first note in an octave. “Do-Ra” was the voice of c-influence telling me to do Raymond Wong, a young Asian man in Alex Horn’s group who later committed suicide by hanging himself in the No-Tell Motel. Even though I knew it was wong, I did it anyway because I am a law unto myself.

Unto” or “un-two” refers to the “one, two punch” that Cassius Clay (c-influence) used to pummel his opponents into unconsciousness and thus silence their opposing thoughts and feelings. That way I get to shoot my mouth off while my followers remain wordless too, for I am the Greatest Leecher on the planet, the Brightest Light in two thousand years!

Others” rhymes with “mothers” whom are the terrible people whom first instill feminine dominance in us. A clay sculpture of a woman with huge motherly breasts dating around 1000 B.C. invites us to suckle from her for eternity. I hate my mother, but I love that piece! It represents our preschool.

As” refers to “Oz”, the Emerald City of Paradise run by the “little man behind the curtain”, otherwise known as my stubby little penis. “Follow the, follow the, follow the, follow the, follow the yellow brick road!”

You” stands for “ewe” or female sheep. A Scottish print of the 13th century shows a farmer fucking one of his sheep from behind, for only as sheep will you enter the kingdom of my bedroom. The sheep is wearing the farmer’s boots on its rear legs, immobilizing it so it won’t kick the farmer, and symbolizing the guru complex that my followers eventually develop by staying in my preschool.

Would” refers to “woody” or erection. One of the few surviving wood carvings from ancient Egypt is in the Cairo Museum. It is of a philosopher with kind eyes and when viewed from across the room reminds me of an erect penis.

Have them” or “halve them” symbolizes Caesar’s (c-influence) divine strategy of “divide and conquer”. By creating a “lower self and higher self” schism within my followers I conquer their will and exploit them. A 14th century painting by Roberto Tutti-Fruitti housed in the Vatican’s secret archives depicts a pope chained by the neck being lead to hell by the devil as the pope masturbates into his own mouth with angel wings for hands. I am not sure what it means, but I cannot seem to get the image out of my mind.

Do” or the second do as in “doo doo”. An ancient cave painting in Lascaux, France depicts starving cave men eating Rhino poop. This is the correct relationship to my preschool. You’d have to have a brain the size of a be bee not to see that.

Unto you” or “number one and number two on you”. This is the voice of c-influence commanding me to make my students peepee and poopoo on me so I can remain in a regressed child-like state as I age. I can’t wait to be in diapers again!

We take American Excess, Visa, and MasterCharge.

248. X-ray - December 30, 2009

242. veramente – December 30, 2009

‘it’s fuel and energy to do something, to break stagnation, to wake up from being numbed and abused.’

Yes, very much so, and that’s exactly why in any totalitarian regime, the number one rule is to suppress the people anger, which makes them to submit to tyranny.
When it comes to Burton and his cult, I’m getting very angry, yet, I’m completely calm inside, a concept which ‘formatory’ mind cannot understand.

249. Silentpurr - December 30, 2009

Someone,
I sincerely welcome you you as one who has struggled through the fellowship looking-glass and is now standing within the responsibility of your own reality. This platform nobly serves us each in our own individual reflections.
The anger you perceive in others is just that. Your own perception. For you to understand, it would require empathy. Empathy was not modeled in the FOF. ( Just remembering dear Dorothy Beaulieu, my daughter’s respected dance teacher. And what you idiots allowed to happen to her! )
where was the empathy?
The need to change others is part of the emotional tension felt and encouraged in the FOF.
It is unnecessary.

250. another name - December 30, 2009

Veramente

Getting rid of the obsessive collections of FOF material does not prove you are moving on.
IMO I believe that when you become concerned with the real tragedy that has happened to many and continues to happen in OH and around the world because of the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway of Presence, you can then say you moved on and have truly deprogrammed yourself, including from being somewhat numb.

I am trying to live the above.
I can not just ignored what happened when I was in Fellowship of Friends/Pathway of Presence.
Everybody has to do what he/ she has to do. To state that you “have to move on”. is IME/IMO a form of dominance?
We/I /you will move…on, when we move on. Nobody else can tell us when to move on. This would be another form of brainwashing/ dependency? I hope that many of us have learned to discriminate and follow our own heart’s path. With this I wish you a :

Happy Healthy 2010

251. another name - December 30, 2009

Nothing exists outside nature and man, and the higher beings our religious fantasies have created are only the fantastic reflection of our essence.

Interesting, 411, who wrote this?

252. Spock - December 30, 2009

Whoa, it seems like the noise level from the shill gallery goes up three or four notches when anyone posts something particularly embarrassing to Burton.

For those who may have missed it, check out Dick Moron’s recently released movie:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5861131/

See also post no. 157 for the YouTube version.

253. Dennis - December 30, 2009

The advice given by some to “move on” is assuming that if someone is still angry that they have not “moved on.” That is an incorrect assumption. All of us who are former students have moved on. We moved on when we graduated, the moment we no longer accepted RB as our teacher. How we process our disappointment and anger at RB for misusing our trust is totally unique for each of us, and is probably mostly an expression of our particular mechanicality. Tell a warrior not to express anger and you’ll probably get your ass kicked.

254. brucelevy - December 30, 2009

250. another name

True that.

255. brucelevy - December 30, 2009

253. Dennis

True that too.

256. 411 - December 30, 2009

#251 another name

It was a comment by Engels
http://wsws.org/articles/2009/dec2009/eli1-d30.shtml

It’s about 1/2 way down the article. Next to the picture of Ludwig Feuerbach. The whole article is worth reading.

257. arthur - December 30, 2009

I just read an interesting article on the Alternet website titled, “America the Tramatized: How 13 events of the decade made us the PTSD nation”.

Has anybody been tramatized? Has the Fellowship of Friends experience tramatized anybody? Has any recent event unconnected to the Fellowship of Friends caused a flashback to the Fellowship of Friends?

This phrase was quoted in the article and attributed to Dr. Judith Herman. “Powerlessness is the central expression of trauma”.

Maybe lashing out in a moment of powerlessness is a symptom of PTSD. It made a lot of sense to me.

258. Someone - December 30, 2009

242. veramente
It is almost four years now since talks about law suits are swirling here and nothing happened so far. I don’t know why it has never been actualized.

Three years ago I would have definitively join such a lawsuit though I do not have personal experiences of harmful actions done to me by RB or the FOF like sexual abuse etc’.

Today the situation is far different. Now I have my life back. I have turned my literal poverty into prosperity in a relatively short time and I am proud of it. Part of it is due to urgent necessity to survive (up to the level of food and a place to live); still another major factor was to renounce my old psychology of being a poor monk. I was angry because I was never taking care of myself; I was always at the FOF service.

In order to achieve that I had to let go the poor monk psychology and focus on making money fast and smart. It worked out great.

Joining such a lawsuit today would mean letting my mind being occupied again with the FOF for several years. For me that would mean a serious regression from where I am now.

A few months ago I took a trip to southern Brazil for six weeks. I hired a nice fully equipped house in a hilly meadow area. The people around are the nicest I have ever met. The fact that I could afford it and enjoy it so much is an outcome of at least partial ability to let go of the FOF.

259. brucelevy - December 30, 2009

258. Someone

“Three years ago I would have definitively join such a lawsuit…”

Why would you even say that? With no personal experiences you have absolutely nothing to input as far as a law suit.

You also continually reiterate that the stories told here are not true. With no personal experiences you have absolutely nothing to input as far as credible advice and opinion.

The fact that you consistently refute the personal stories told here, with absolutely no experiences to back up your rhetoric is a perfect example of both “buffering” as the cult says, and cognitive dissonance, as the rest of the world says.,

Yopur experience in the FOF appears to have been a waste of time, and now you spend your time wasting ours with your imaginary pronouncements.

“Joining such a lawsuit today would mean letting my mind being occupied again with the FOF for several years. For me that would mean a serious regression from where I am now.”

What are you doing now, here, occupying your mind with facts that you don’t believe yourself. Having lost the “community” of the FOF do you need to occupy yourself with the imaginary community of the blog. If your life and pusuit of money is going so well, what the hell are you doing here wasting your time and ours?

You’re opinion means nothing, as you have absolutely no experience with the scenarios that are being exposed here. What’s your point. Do you think the FOF is going to find you and say “You’ve been sych a good supporter and defender we would like you to come back, and you don’t have to make payments.”?

You live in as much an imaginary world as you did before you joined.

260. Someone - December 30, 2009

259. brucelevy
You haven’t had any personal experience with the FOF in the last 20 years because you have not been there during that time.
Still you pretty much pretend to be involved and place yourself in the center of the “action” here. That is a sublime and hidden way of self deception and by that also deceiving others.

You write here as if you know what has been going on in the FOF in the last two decades, yet in reality it is all other peoples’ experience that you pretend to have as your own. You do not do it literary, you just act that way. Now, you can ask yourself why do you embrace such false identity?

You can suppress that too and say that you have been there, but if you stop for a second and think about it, you will see that there is a lot of truth in what I just said.

In that respect you are a victim of your own self.

261. sallymcnally - December 31, 2009
Aloha. I live on Maui where there are many ex-Osho followers. Here is an exerpt from a former member. I found the similarities pretty amazing. Happy New Year! Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth “Meditation must not be made into a business.” – Acharya Rajneesh 1971 Acharya Rajneesh was 39 years old when I first met him at his Bombay apartment in December of 1970. With long beard and large dark eyes, he looked like a painting of Lao-Tse come to life. Before meeting Rajneesh, I had spent time with a number of Eastern gurus (see pictures) without being satisfied with the quality of their teachings. I wanted an enlightened guide who could bridge the gap between East and West, and reveal the true esoteric secrets without the excess baggage of Indian, Tibetan, or Japanese culture. Rajneesh was the answer to my quest for those deeper meanings. He described for me in vivid detail everything I wanted to know about the inner worlds, and he had the power of immense being to back up his words. At 21 years old, I was naive about life and the nature of man, and I assumed that everything he told me must be true. [see picture of Rajneesh at his best] Rajneesh spoke on a high level of intelligence, and his powerful presence emanated from his body like a soft light that healed all wounds. While sitting close during a small gathering of friends, Rajneesh took me on a rapidly vertical inner journey that almost seemed to push me out of my physical body. His vast presence lifted everyone around him higher without the slightest effort on their part. The days I spent at his Bombay apartment were like days spent in heaven. He had it all, and he was giving it away for free. Rajneesh possessed the power of direct energy transmission, which is known in India as “shaktipat.” He used this power nobly to bring comfort and inspiration to his disciples. Rajneesh claimed to have the “third eye” powers of telepathy and remote viewing, and for many years I believed that claim to be true. However, in the 1980s Rajneesh was unable to perceive the tragic events at his Oregon commune which occurred directly under his nose, so those claimed psychic powers are now in question. Many gurus boast of having mysterious psychic abilities in order to attract new disciples and new money. Rajneesh’s habit of getting his helpers to investigate visitors so he could impress them with his knowledge of their personal lives adds to my skepticism about the effectiveness of his “third eye.” It was a fact, however, that those who came near him experienced his incredible cosmic presence. One or two face to face meetings with Rajneesh was all it took to turn doubting Western skepticism into awed admiration and devotion. One year earlier I had meet another enlightened teacher known to the world as Jiddu Krishnamurti. J. Krishnamurti could barely give a coherent lecture, and he constantly scolded his audience by referring to their “shoddy little minds.” I loved his frankness, and his words were true, but his subtly cantankerous nature was not very helpful in transferring his knowledge to others. [see photograph of J. Krishnamurti] Listening to J. Krishnamurti speak was like eating a sandwich made of bread and sand. I found the best way to enjoy his talks was to completely ignore his words and quietly absorb his presence. Using that technique I would become so expanded after a lecture that I could barely talk for hours afterwards. J. Krishnamurti, while fully enlightened and uniquely lovable, will be recorded in history as a teacher with very poor verbal communication skills. Unlike the highly eloquent Rajneesh, however, J. Krishnamurti never committed any crime, never pretended to be more than he was, and he never used other human beings selfishly. Life is complex and multilayered, and my naive illusions about the phenomena of perfect enlightenment faded over the years. It became clear that enlightened people are as fallible as anyone. They are expanded human beings, not perfect human beings, and they live and breathe with many of the same faults and vulnerabilities we ordinary humans must endure. Skeptics ask how I can claim that Rajneesh was enlightened, given his scandals and disastrous public image. I can only say that Rajneesh’s magnetic presence was identical to that of Jiddu Krishnamurti, who was recognized as enlightened by every high Tibetan Lama and revered Hindu sage of the day. I do sympathize with the skeptics, however. If I had not known Rajneesh personally, I would never believe it myself. Rajneesh pushed the envelope of enlightenment in both positive and negative directions. He was the best of the best and the worst of the worst. He was a great teacher in his early years, with an innovative meditation technique that worked with dramatic power called “Dynamic Meditation.” Rajneesh lifted thousands of seekers to higher levels of consciousness, and he detailed Eastern religions and ancient meditation techniques with luminous clarity. [see Rajneesh leading group meditation] One false move, one grand error Acharya Rajneesh was born to a Jain family on December 11th, 1931, in the village of Kuchwada in central India. The term ‘Acharya’ means a religious teacher, and ‘Rajneesh’ means moon. Rajneesh’s actual legal name was Chandra Mohan Jain; ‘Rajneesh’ being only an unofficial nickname acquired in childhood. Late one night in 1971, the man I knew as Acharya Rajneesh suddenly changed his name to “Bhagwan Rajneesh.” The famous enlightened sage, Ramana Maharshi, was called Bhagwan by his disciples as a spontaneous term of endearment. Rajneesh simply declared to the world that everyone should start calling him Bhagwan, a title that can mean anything from ‘divine one’ to God. ‘Shree’ is an honorific term for master, so his most notorious full name, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, can be translated as God Master Moon. Rajneesh became irritated when I once politely corrected his mispronunciations of English words after a lecture, so I felt in no position to tell him that I thought his new title was inappropriate and dishonest. That change in name marked a turning point in Rajneesh’s level of honesty, and was the first of many big lies yet to come. Rajneesh lived in an ivory tower, rarely leaving his room unless to give a lecture, his life experience cushioned by throngs of adoring devotees. [see photograph of Rajneesh in his bedroom in Bombay] His isolation became even more complete when he moved from his small Bombay apartment to a large estate in Poona, India, in 1974. As most human beings who are treated as kings, Rajneesh lost touch with the world of the common man. In his artificial and insulated existence, Rajneesh made one fundamental error in judgment which would destroy his teaching. “What you tell them is true, but what I tell them (useful lies) is good for them.” – Bhagwan Rajneesh, Poona, India, 1975 Rajneesh calculated that the majority of the earth’s population was on such a low level of consciousness that they could not understand nor tolerate the real truths. He thus decided on a policy of spreading seemingly useful lies to bring inspiration to his disciples and, on occasion, to stress his students in unique situations for their own personal growth. This was his downfall and the prime reason he will be remembered by most historians as just another phony guru. Rajneesh’s teachings were full of intentional lies and unintentional falsehoods, which were born out of his own ignorance, gullibility, and Indian cultural conditioning. His psychic presence, however, was 100% real and extremely powerful. [see Do you have a soul? and The Ridiculous Teachings of Wrong Way Rajneesh] Acharya, Bhagwan Shree, Osho,…all the empowering names taken by Rajneesh could not cover up the fact that he was still a human being. He had ambitions and desires, sexual and material, just like everyone else. All enlightened humans have desires. All enlightened men have had public lives that we know about, and all have had private lives that remained secret. The vast majority of enlightened men do nothing but good for the world. Only Rajneesh, to my knowledge, became a criminal in both the legal and ethical sense of the word. Rajneesh never lost the ultimate existential truth of being. He only lost the ordinary concept of truth that any normal adult can understand. He rationalized his constant lying as “lefthanded Tantra,” but that too was dishonest. Rajneesh lied to save face, to avoid taking responsibility for his own mistakes, and to gain personal power. Those lies had nothing to do with Tantra or any selfless acts of kindness. What is real in this world is fact, and Rajneesh misrepresented fact on a daily basis. Rajneesh was no simple con man like so many others. Rajneesh knew everything that Buddha knew, and he was everything that Buddha was. It was his loss of respect for ordinary truthfulness that destroyed his life’s work. Rajneesh’s health collapsed in his early thirties. Even before reaching middle age, Rajneesh suffered reoccurring bouts of weakness. During his youthful college years, when he should have been at a peak of vigor, Rajneesh often had to sleep 12 to 14 hours a day due to an unexplained illness. Rajneesh suffered from what Europeans call Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME), or what Americans call Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). His classic symptoms included the obvious fatigue, strange allergies, recurrent low grade fevers, photophobia, orthostatic intolerance (the inability to stand for a normal period of time), insomnia, body pain, and extreme sensitivity to smells and chemicals, a condition doctors now refer to as “multiple chemical sensitivity.” Rajneesh’s trademark chemical sensitivity was so severe that he instructed his guards to sniff people for unpleasant odors before they were allowed to visit him in his quarters. People with Gulf War Syndrome, MS, and other neurological and immune system illnesses are also often highly sensitive to chemicals and smells. Rajneesh’s poor health and strange symptoms were a product of real neurological and immune system dysfunction, not some esoteric supersensitivity caused by his enlightenment. Rajneesh also had Type II diabetes, asthma, and severe back pain. Rajneesh was constantly sick and frail from the time I first met him in 1970 until his death on January 19th, 1990. He thought he was getting a different cold or flu every week. In reality he suffered from a chronic neurological and immune system illness, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, with flu like symptoms that can last a lifetime. Rajneesh could not stand on his feet for long periods of time without becoming lightheaded because he suffered damage to his autonomic nervous system which controls blood pressure. This neurally mediated hypotension (low blood pressure while standing) causes fatigue, stress, and can lower IQ due to a lack of sufficient blood and oxygen being pumped to the brain (brain hypoxia). In the 1970s, Rajneesh often complained of becoming lightheaded immediately upon standing. During the final few months of his life in Poona, Rajneesh frequently passed out into complete unconsciousness. Rajneesh used prescription drugs, mainly Valium (diazepam), as an analgesic for his aches and pains and to counter the symptoms of dysautonomia (dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system). At his peak usage, Rajneesh took the maximum recommended dose of 60 milligrams per day, a dose so high that it is usually only prescribed for the long term care of the mentally ill. Patients who take Valium regularly build up a resistance to the drug over time, and higher and higher doses are needed to maintain its stress relieving, hypnotic effects. Rajneesh also inhaled nitrous oxide (N2O) mixed with pure oxygen, which he claimed increased his creativity. The nitrous oxide probably did relieve the sensation of severe exhaustion and suffocation patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome often feel, but it did nothing for the quality of his judgment. Naive about the power of drugs, and overconfident of his ability to fight off their negative effects, Rajneesh succumbed to addiction. [see Osho in the Dental Chair and The Dangers of Nitrous Oxide] A number of disciples have claimed that Rajneesh was so intoxicated at his Oregon ranch in the 1980s that he sometimes urinated in the halls of his own home, just as heroin addicts and common drunks often do. I believe this to be true, as the last time I saw Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh he was inebriated to the point of becoming physically ugly. He had the same washed-out look and foolish behavior I had witnessed in drug addicts while working at a methadone clinic in the United States. Rajneesh had miraculous mental power, but he was an ordinary human being physically and he could not tolerate the devastating effects of large doses of tranquilizers. On top of Rajneesh’s physical illness, his massive intake of Valium caused paranoia and greatly reduced reasoning skills. Valium addicts often think the CIA or some other unseen villains are plotting against them, so it is not surprising that he imagined that he was poisoned by the United States Government. His reasoning powers became so damaged that Rajneesh actually considered moving to Russia to combine his totalitarian form of spirituality with Russian communism, an idea no sane man could possibly entertain. Rajneesh publicly called for the assassination of Michael Gorbachev, because Gorbachev was moving Russia to Western style capitalism instead of Rajneesh’s own brand of “spiritual communism.” Historically, Valium has been the drug of choice for CFS sufferers as it masks the unnerving symptoms of dysautonomia and helps bring sleep. Rajneesh suffered from insomnia, another classic symptom of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Rajneesh was a physically ill man who became mentally corrupt. His brief experimentation with LSD only made matters worse. Rajneesh’s drug use and addiction was a problem of his own making, not a government conspiracy. Rajneesh died in 1990, with heart failure listed as the official cause of death. It is probable that the physical decline Rajneesh experienced during his incarceration in American jails was due to a combination of withdrawal symptoms from his Valium addiction and an aggravation of his Chronic Fatigue Syndrome due to stress and exposure to allergens. After Rajneesh’s humiliation and downfall in America, he declared that he was “Jesus crucified by Ronald Reagan’s America.” In truth, Rajneesh was a drug addicted guru who self-destructed because of his own wrong actions. Comparing himself to Jesus was doubly dishonest, as he himself had no respect for Jesus. He once undiplomatically proclaimed to the American media that everything Jesus said was “just crazy.” “I went through the abandoned city of Rajneeshpuram and saw things that were almost unbelievable. Ma Anand Sheela’s headquarters, a group of mobile homes pieced together, was a hive of secret doors and hidden tunnels, her private room a command post with electronic listening gear tapped into every room in the development. The Bhagwan’s parquet-paneled quarters had nitrogen oxide spigots by his bedside, and was surrounded by huge bathrooms with multiple showers.” – Jim Weaver, former Oregon Congressman [see Jim Weaver’s full article] In the 1998 preface to Books I Have Loved, Rajneesh’s (Osho’s) personal dentist, Swami Devageet, states that Osho dictated three books under the influence of nitrous oxide. They were Books I Have Loved, Glimpses of a Golden Childhood, and Notes of a Madman. Refering to his own nitrous oxide use, Rajneesh himself stated that “Actually oxygen and nitrogen are basic elements of existence. They can be of much use, but for reasons the politicians have been against chemicals of all kinds, all drugs.” Ma Anand Sheela, Rajneesh’s personal secretary, publicly stated on the CBS news show 60 Minutes that Rajneesh took 60 milligrams of Valium every day. Hugh Milne, Rajneesh’s head bodyguard, confirmed Rajneesh’s heavy Valium use, as did Swami Devageet. The FBI knew that Rajneesh was a Valium and nitrous oxide addict from their own investigations, and that fact was published in newspapers around the USA, including articles in “THE OREGONIAN” and “THE NEW YORK TIMES.” There is no doubt that Rajneesh became a drug addict except in the minds of passionate Osho followers who don’t want to admit the painful truth. Rajneesh once jokingly refered to himself as “the rubber hose Buddha,” because he was always inhaling nitrous oxide through a rubber hose. Rajneesh did not seem to realize that becoming a drug addict not only devalued himself as a teacher, but to some extend discredited the very concept of anyone becoming a “Buddha.” If even an enlightened Buddha needs drugs to get high, then what value is there in becoming “enlightened” at all? “People call me an ‘enlightened man’ — I detest that term — they can’t find any other word to describe the way I am functioning. At the same time, I point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all. I say that because all my life I’ve searched and wanted to be an enlightened man, and I discovered that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all, and so the question whether a particular person is enlightened or not doesn’t arise. I don’t give a hoot for a sixth-century-BC Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people. There is no power outside of man. Man has created God out of fear. So the problem is fear and not God.” – U.G. Krishnamurti Upon his sudden death in 1990, there was much media speculation that Rajneesh had committed suicide by taking an overdose of drugs. As no disciple has confessed to giving Rajneesh a lethal injection, there is no hard evidence to support the suicide theory. A compelling circumstantial case could be made for such a scenario, however, with suicide provoked by Rajneesh’s constant ill health and disheartenment over the loss of Vivek, his greatest love. Vivek had taken a fatal overdose of sleeping pills in a Bombay hotel one month before Rajneesh’s passing. Pointedly, Vivek decided to kill herself immediately before Rajneesh’s birthday celebration. Rajneesh had threatened suicide at the Oregon commune several times, hanging his death over the heads of his disciples as a threat unless they obeyed his orders. On his last day on earth, Rajneesh is reported to have said “Let me go. My body has become a hell for me.” The rumor that Rajneesh was poisoned with thallium by operatives of the United States Government is entirely fictional and contradicted by undeniable fact. One of the obvious symptoms of thallium poisoning is dramatic hair loss within seven days of exposure. Rajneesh died with a full beard and no exceptional baldness other than ordinary male pattern baldness at the top of his head. Radiation poisoning, another fictional cause of his illness, also causes dramatic hair loss. The symptoms which may have led Rajneesh’s doctors to suspect poisoning are common symptoms of dysautonomia caused by Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Those symptoms can include ataxia (uncoordinated movements), numbness, standing tachycardia (rapid heart rate upon standing), paresthesia (sensations of prickling and itching), nausea, and irritable bowel syndrome, which causes one to alternate between constipation and diarrhea. All of his negative physical and mental symptoms were severely compounded by his own self-induced nitrous oxide poisoning and heavy Valium use. The only proven cases of illegal poisoning related to Rajneesh were carried out by Rajneesh’s own sannyasins. A sannyasin is an initiated disciple, one who takes sannyas. In the year 1984 there were 751 poison victims, including women and small children, at ten restaurants in the The Dalles, Oregon. Rajneesh sannyasins attempted to take over the Wasco County Commission by making so many people ill on election day that they could elect their own sannyasin candidates. [see Rajneesh bioterrorism newspaper story] Rajneesh disciples poisoned the restaurants’ customers by contaminating salad bars and coffee creamers with salmonella bacteria. Forty-five of the victims became so ill they had to be hospitalized, making the case the largest germ warfare attack in United States history. Sannyasins were later suspected of trying to kill a Wasco County executive by spiking his water with an unknown poison. A Jefferson County District Attorney, Michael Sullivan, also became ill after leaving a cup of coffee unattended as Rajneesh sannyasins filled the courthouse. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh never apologized to any of the people who were poisoned by his own trusted disciples. Members of Rajneesh’s staff were poisoned by Ma Anand Sheela, Rajneesh’s personal secretary. Sheela had the habit of poisoning people who either knew too much or who had simply fallen out of her favor. Sheela spent two and a half years in a Federal medium security prison for her crimes, while Rajneesh pled guilty to immigration fraud and was given a ten year suspended sentence, fined $400,000., and deported from the United States of America. As part of his plea bargain agreement, more serious charges of racketeering were dropped. [see Rajneesh and Sheela’s mugshots] Rajneesh felt that teaching ethics was unnecessary because meditation would automatically lead to good behavior. The actions of Rajneesh and his disciples proves that theory to be completely false. Rajneesh taught that you should do as you please because life is both a dream and a joke. This attitude led to the classically fascist belief that one can become so high and mighty that one is beyond the need for old fashioned values and ethical behavior. Those unfamiliar with the Rajneesh story can read the book, Bhagwan: The God That Failed, published by Saint Martin’s Press and written by Hugh Milne (Shivamurti), a close disciple of Rajneesh during his Poona and Oregon years. Except for Ma Yoga Laxmi, Rajneesh’s first secretary, and Vivek, Rajneesh’s main girlfriend, Shivamurti probably spent more time in close physical proximity to Rajneesh than anyone in Rajneesh’s adult life. Mr. Milne’s book is largely corroborated by Satya Bharti Franklin’s book, Promise of Paradise: A Woman’s Intimate Life With ‘Bhagwan’ Osho Rajneesh, published by Barrytown/Station Hill Press. Both books are out of print, but secondhand copies can be obtained through Amazon.Com. There have been many other tell-all books published on the same subject matter, but I have not read them and I do not know the authors, so I do not mention them here. Regarding Bhagwan: The God That Failed, I can verify many of the facts Mr. Milne states about the life of Rajneesh in Bombay and Poona, though I have no first hand knowledge of the tragic events at the Oregon commune. My contacts with people who were there lead me to believe that most of the facts Mr. Milne presents of the Oregon era are also highly accurate. Hugh Milne is due great credit for a well written and entertaining book, which is a sincere effort at complete honesty. On a few occasions, however, I differ from Mr. Milne’s interpretations of what the facts he presents actually mean. Rajneesh did not suffer from “hypochondria,” as Mr. Milne suggested. Rajneesh had a very real neurological and immune system disease which he mistook for frequent viral infections. Rajneesh became unusually afraid of germs only due to his understandable medical ignorance. I fully agree with Mr. Milne that Rajneesh suffered from “megalomania,” however, and will add that the short statured Rajneesh had a Napoleonic, obsessive-compulsive, and extravagantly narcissistic personality. Mr. Milne suggests that Rajneesh used “hypnosis” to manipulate his disciples. Rajneesh had a melodic and naturally hypnotic voice which would be a great asset to any public speaker. In my opinion, however, Rajneesh’s power came from the intense energy field of the universal cosmic consciousness which he channeled like a lens. Hindus call this universal energy phenomena the Atman. As a Westerner, I prefer more scientific terms and describe the Atman as a highly evolved manifestation of time-energy-space, the TES. [see The TES Hypothesis] Hugh Milne’s book records a day when Rajneesh admitted, while under the influence of nitrous oxide, that there is no such thing as ‘enlightenment.’ I cannot confirm this event through other contacts, but I assume Rajneesh was simply stating what U.G. Krishnamurti has said all along; that the storybook fiction we accept of a perfect enlightenment, full of infallible wisdom, is a big lie. A powerful and expansive state of cosmic consciousness does exist in humans who achieve it, but the way this condition is described by the religious establishment is an egocentric fiction, contrived by spiritual leaders to control the masses for their own personal gain. Enlightenment is not something you own; it is something you channel. Whatever term you use for the phenomena of enlightenment, it is scientifically accurate to say that no human being has any power of their own. Even the chemical energy of our metabolism is borrowed from the sun, which beams light to the earth, which is then converted by plants through photosynthesis into the food we eat. You may get your bread from the supermarket, but the caloric energy it contains originated from thermonuclear reactions deep in the center of a nearby star. Our physical bodies run on star power. Any “spiritual” energy we channel also comes from far beyond, from all sides of the universe, from the complete TES, from beyond the oceans of galaxies, and onto infinity. No human being owns the Atman, and no one can speak for the TES. The Void has no ambition or personality whatsoever, so Rajneesh could only speak for his own animal mind. The animal mind may want its disciples to “take over the whole world,” but the Void does not care because it is beyond any motivation. The phenomena we called Rajneesh, Bhagwan, and Osho, was only a temporary lens of cosmic energy, not the full cosmos itself. Rajneesh, and the famous Greek-Armenian mystic George Gurdjieff, often used the power of the Atman for clearly personal gain. [see photo of Gurdjieff] Both men used their cosmic consciousness to overwhelm and seduce women. Gurdjieff was ashamed of his behavior and vowed many times during his life to end this practice, which was a combination of ordinary male lust backed up by the potent advantage of oceanic super-mental power. Rajneesh went even further and used his channeled cosmic energy to manipulate masses of people to gain a kind of quasi-political status, and to aggrandize himself far beyond what was honest or helpful to his disciples. In Oregon, Rajneesh declared to the media that “My religion is the only religion!” Diplomacy and modesty were not his strong points. To my knowledge, George Gurdjieff never reached the extremes of self-indulgence of Rajneesh, and he even warned his disciples not to have blind faith in him. Gurdjieff wanted his students to be free and independent, with the combined abilities of clear mental reasoning and cosmic consciousness. Rajneesh, by contrast, seemed to believe that only his thoughts and ideas were of value because only he was “enlightened.” This was a grand error in judgment and revealed a basic flaw in his character. Unfortunately, when Rajneesh achieved the ability to fully channel the power of the Atman, he failed to apply the needed wisdom of self-restraint. His human mind so rebelled against Asian asceticism that he failed to ensure that his borrowed power was only used for the good of others. Rajneesh was driven by strong personal ambitions, not just compassion. “Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.” – Henry Kissinger Rajneesh left India in 1981, in part to escape paying a four million dollar Indian income tax bill. As he disembarked from a 747 jetliner to take his first footsteps in the USA, Rajneesh declared that “I am the Messiah America has been waiting for.” [Milne, Bhagwan: The God That Failed] After a brief stay in a newly acquired castle styled home in Montclair, New Jersey, Rajneesh bought the 64,000 acre Big Muddy cattle ranch near the small town of Antelope in eastern Oregon for six million dollars. Rajneesh created his Oregon desert commune from his own powerful mind and named it “Rajneeshpuram.” He made himself the ultimate dictator, his picture placed everywhere as in an Orwellian bad dream. J. Krishnamurti called Rajneesh a “criminal” and Rajneeshpuram “a concentration camp under the dictatorship of enlightenment.” Poonjaji, Ramana Maharshi’s famous student, refered to Rajneesh as “a pig” for building himself up in the eyes of his disciples to dishonest proportions. Poonjaji’s position was that even the enlightened remain human beings, not saints or superheroes, and that we all share the same cosmic identity no matter what our class and social standing. [see photo of Poonjaji] U.G. Krishnamurti, a famous maverick anti-guru, was even more critical of Rajneesh. During the mid 1970s Rajneesh deemphasized his own meditation methods and started selling Western style group therapies as a way to gain income. It was difficult to make money from authentic meditation techniques because they are all easy to learn and can be done alone, without the aid of a teacher. One of the groups Rajneesh sold to students was the “Tantra” group, which was basically just male and female disciples having sex with each other. U.G. Krishnamurti publicly called Rajneesh the “worlds biggest pimp” because “He made money from the boys and the girls and he kept it for himself.” In 1971 Rajneesh told me directly in a face to face meeting that U.G. Krishnamurti was “realized.” After much public criticism from U.G., Rajneesh counterattacked by calling U.G. a “phony guru.” [see photo of U.G. Krishnamurti] Guru wars aside, the totalitarian atmosphere of Rajneeshpuram was the main reason I did not stay at the commune beyond two brief visits. I was interested in meditation, not in a big prison camp where human beings were treated like insects with no intelligence of their own. Rajneesh put such a high emphasis on his disciples following orders without question that they did just that when Ma Anand Sheela, Rajneesh’s personal secretary, gave absurd orders to commit crimes which Rajneesh himself (hopefully) would never have approved of. When you decapitate the intelligence of human beings you create a situation that is highly dangerous and destructive to the human spirit. You cannot save people from their egos by demanding “total surrender.” The antidemocratic technique of forcing blind obedience did not work well for Hitler, Stalin, or for Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Germany, Russia, and the Rajneesh Oregon commune were all destroyed by authoritarian imperial rule. A diversity of opinion is always healthy because it acts as an effective counterbalance to the myopic arrogance of those who would be king. Rajneesh never understood this truth of history and referred to democracy scornfully as “mobocracy.” Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was an imperial aristocrat, never a generous and open minded democrat, and he put his contempt for the democratic process into highly visible action in Oregon. In an attempt to subvert a local Wasco County election, Rajneesh had his sannyasins bus in almost 2,000 homeless people from major American cities in an effort to unfairly rig the voting process in his favor. Some of the new voters were mentally ill and were given beer laced with drugs to keep them manageable. Credible allegations have been made that one or more of the imported street people died due to overdosing on the beer and drug mixture, their bodies buried in the desert. To my knowledge that charge has not been conclusively proven. Rajneesh’s voting fraud scheme failed, and the derelicts and mental patients were returned to the streets after the election was over, used and then abandoned. Rajneesh used people, spoke out of both sides of his mouth, and betrayed the trust of his own disciples. This betrayal caused Vivek, his longtime girlfriend and companion, to commit suicide by taking an overdose of sleeping pills. Rajneesh even lied about her death, slandering his greatest love in her grave by falsely claiming that she was chronically depressed due to some intrinsic emotional instability. Vivek was never depressed during the years I knew her, and she was the most radiant women I have ever known. [see photo of Vivek] Vivek was a glowing student of meditation, but her only meditation method was being with Rajneesh and absorbing his tremendous energy. When her one true love collapsed into insanity, she took her own life out of overwhelming grief. Rajneesh drove her to suicide because she could not understand nor tolerate his mental decline and collapse. Rajneesh lied about her death to avoid taking responsibility for his own bizarre behavior, which was the underlying cause of Vivek’s despair. The young Acharya Rajneesh started his life as a teacher who condemned false gurus, and he ended his life as one of the most deceitful gurus the world has ever known. The difficult fact to comprehend is that he was enlightened when he was an anti-guru puritan, and he was still enlightened when he was the ultimate corrupt, self-indulgent guru himself. Rajneesh destroyed his own teaching because he discarded truthfulness in favor of what he thought were useful lies. Once you make that wrong turn, away from ordinary straightforward truth, you have lost your way. No human being can disregard fact on a regular basis without finding himself in a sea of turmoil, because by discarding fact you discard the ground beneath your feet. Little lies grow into big lies, and the now hidden truth becomes your enemy, not your ally and friend. Rajneesh overestimated himself and underestimated his own disciples. The real seekers around him could have easily handled the truth and were already motivated without the need for propaganda. Rajneesh had been a famous guru for such a long time that he came to see himself in grandiose terms. He was indeed an historic figure, but he was not the perfect superhuman he pretended to be. No one is! His disciples deserved honesty, but he fed them fairy tales “to give them faith.” Jiddu Krishnamurti had been more honest than Rajneesh in repeating relentlessly that due to the intrinsic nature of the universe, “there is no authority.” Ardent Rajneesh disciples didn’t heed J. Krishnamurti’s warnings and put blind faith in a man who claimed to be all-seeing, to have all the answers, and who once in 1975 brashly stated that he had never made a single mistake in his entire life. Clearly, Rajneesh made as many mistakes as any human being. Just as obviously, his basic existential enlightenment was no guarantee of functional pragmatic wisdom. Rajneesh was a brilliant philosopher, but he was a lost babe in the woods when it came to the world of science. Worried about worldwide overpopulation, Rajneesh pressured his disciples to undergo sexual reproduction sterilization procedures. Unfortunately, he did not consider the demographics of population growth. The current population expansion is largely a phenomena of poor Third World nations, not a problem originating in the USA, Canada, and Europe, where birth rates are actually declining. North America and Europe are only experiencing population increases due to legal and illegal immigration from Third World nations. Having his Western disciples medically sever their reproductive capabilities only added to this imbalance, and many former disciples now regret they complied without question to his thoughtless edicts. Discouraging followers from having families is a common device of gurus to keep disciples from spending money on children rather than handing their cash over to the guru himself. Childless disciples make better workers and are usually more subservient. Thus, sexual sterilization fit into Rajneesh’s business plan and his desire to create an army of followers who felt that “only the relationship to guru is important.” Rajneesh was the son of an ambitious Jain businessman, and he was more like his father than he ever realized. Rajneesh’s enlightenment was overlaid on top of a mind attuned to business and making money. In the 1980s, Rajneesh declared that the AIDS epidemic would soon kill three quarters of the world’s population and that a major nuclear war was just around the corner. He thought he could escape nuclear holocaust by building underground shelters and slow the spread of AIDS by having his disciples wash their hands with alcohol before eating meals. His more reasoned admonition was for his followers to always use condoms. To enforce his sexual rules, which also involved elaborate instructions on the use of rubber gloves during sexual encounters, Rajneesh encouraged his sannyasins to spy on each other, reporting the names of those who failed to conform to his orders. The disaster of Rajneesh appointing himself the singular great brain of the universe was compounded by his lack of real world reasoning skills, and this was apparent even before he started taking large amounts of Valium and inhaling nitrous oxide. Rajneesh had no understanding of the scientific method. If he thought something was true, in his own mind, that made it true. Rajneesh could weave magnificent philosophical dreams and addict his disciples to imagined worlds of spiritual adventure, but those dreams did not have to stand any empirical test of truth. In the world of science, you have to prove what you say is true through testing. In the world of philosophy and religion, you can say anything you desire and throw caution to the wind. If your words sound good to the masses, they will sell whether they are fact or fiction. [see The Ridiculous Teachings of Wrong Way Rajneesh and Common Lies of the Phony World of Mystics] Rajneesh ruled his desert empire as a warlord with his own private army and puppet government. His visions and ideas, faulty or not, were taken without question as the word of God. His disciples were judged by their ability to surrender to his will, and any opposing views were branded as an unspiritual lack of faith. As conditions at the ranch became progressively more unpleasant, a number of sannyasins escaped by hiding in the back of outgoing trucks. Their quest for freedom upset Rajneesh, who demanded that the disillusioned must now ask his permission to leave. Rajneesh then dramatically threatened suicide if others escaped by stealthful means. Rajneesh’s poor reasoning became even more apparent during and after the Oregon commune scandal. After being jailed and then deported from the USA, Rajneesh angrily declared America “a wretched country” and branded Americans as “subhuman,” ignoring the fact that it was he, an Indian, who pled guilty to felony immigration fraud, and that it was Sheela, an Indian, who ordered the most serious crimes which brought his empire to ruin. Even in his fifties, Rajneesh was still lying to get his own way, and still demanding to be the center of attention. In 1988, suffering from drug and illness induced dementia, Rajneesh publicly pouted that his box of toys, his expensive car collection and jewel encrusted watches, had been taken away from him. Rajneesh’s disciples thought they were following an authoritative “enlightened master.” In reality they had been mislead by a highly fallible human animal who was still a little boy at heart. Rajneesh had not only misrepresented himself personally, but he misrepresented the phenomena of enlightenment itself. The idealized fantasy of perfect enlightenment does not exist anywhere in the real world, and it has never existed. The universe is far too big and complex for anyone to be its “master.” We are all subjects, not masters, and those who pretend to be infallible and all-knowing end up looking even more the fool as history inevitably proves them wrong. “Nature does not use anything as a model. It is only interested in perfecting the species. It is trying to create perfect species and not perfect beings.” – U.G. Krishnamurti The famous sages of old seem perfect to us now because they have become larger than life myths. The long passage of time has allowed their followers to cover up their guru’s flaws, just as Rajneesh disciples are currently censoring history to cover up Rajneesh’s great failings. Rajneesh was never more infallible than any other human being. Unfortunately, cosmic consciousness does not automatically render greater intelligence, wisdom, and honesty. [see The Brain and Meditation] Rajneesh died addicted to Valium, and he experienced all of the negative symptoms of drug addiction, which included slurred speech, paranoia, poor judgment, and dramatically lowered intelligence. At one point his paranoia and confusion were so great that he thought a group of German cultists had cast an evil spell on him. His physical disabilities and drug abuse were simply more than his mortal brain could take. His biggest flaw, his disregard for the ordinary concept of truth, was his ultimate downfall, and for that crime he must be held fully responsible. “Never give a sucker an even break.” – W.C. Fields Rajneesh lied when he said he had enlightened disciples. He lied when he said he never made a mistake. Near the end of his life he was forced to admit that he was fallible, as his list of bungles had grown to monstrous proportions. He lied by pretending that his therapy groups were not mainly just a money making device. Rajneesh lied about breaking United States immigration laws, and he only admitted the truth after he was presented with overwhelming evidence against him. He lied by saying that he was adopted in a phony scheme to get permanent residence status. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was no bank robber, but he was quite literally a pathological liar. The ridiculous thing is that all of his lies were totally unnecessary and counterproductive. As conventional and square as it may sound, honesty really is the best policy! Rajneesh lied when he claimed that he was not responsible for the horrors of the Oregon commune. Rajneesh was responsible because he hand picked Ma Anand Sheela and the people who committed the major crimes of conspiracy to commit murder, poisoning, first-degree assault, burglary, arson, and wiretapping. Rajneesh himself gave direct verbal approval for Sheela’s illegal bugging and wiretapping of his own disciples. The fact that Rajneesh did not order or have preknowledge (hopefully) of the most serious violent crimes does not mean that he was not ethically responsible for them. Rajneesh never turned against Ma Anand Sheela until he started to suspect that Sheela was stealing money from him. Just one month before Sheela fled the commune, Rajneesh spoke of her publicly, stating that “I have been preparing her like a sword. I told her to go out and cut as many heads as possible.” Later, Rajneesh feigned innocence and claimed that Sheela was controlling him in spite of the obvious fact that Rajneesh was the singular reason the commune existed. Rajneesh was surrounded by thousands of adoring disciples who would have gladly expelled or even jailed Sheela any time he gave the order. Sheela did Rajneesh’s dirty work, and the fact that she went farther in her crimes than Rajneesh had planned does not exonerate him of all guilt. Upon leaving the commune, Sheela stated that she was tired of “being his slave for 16, 17 or 20 hours a day,” and tired of “taking food out of the mouths of people to buy him watches and Rolls-Royces.” Rajneesh then publicly claimed that Sheela had extorted millions of dollars from the commune. Sheela’s response to his charge was that Rajneesh had spent all of the money himself on his own expensive toys, and that Rajneesh was bad at mathematics and “can’t count.” Clearly, Rajneesh’s insane purchases of dozens of bejeweled ladies’ watches and over 90 Rolls-Royce automobiles cost the commune many millions of dollars. After her release from prison, Ma Anand Sheela continued to work for a living, without obvious signs of enormous wealth. Sheela committed many crimes, but Rajneesh himself was never “innocent.” If a teacher puts a drunken sailor in charge of driving a school bus, and the children end up dead, then the teacher is responsible for their deaths. Rajneesh knew what kind of a person Sheela was, and he chose her because of her corruption and arrogance, not in spite of it. Rajneesh personally tutored Sheela in how to control and manipulate his own disciples, and it was Rajneesh himself who encouraged Sheela’s infamous outbursts on the ABC television show, Nightline. In a cowardly attempt to evade his own failings, Rajneesh changed his name to Osho, as if a change in name could wash away his sins. There is no publicly released evidence to suggest that Rajneesh ordered the germ warfare attack on the ten Oregon restaurants. There is also no publicly released evidence that implicates Rajneesh in the plot to have a sannyasin pilot fly an airplane full of explosives into an Oregon courthouse in order to intimidate the political opposition. Luckily, the sannyasin pilot who was asked to perform that insane task was not as dumb as the plotters, and he fled the commune without committing any crime. Rajneesh was directly responsible for the twisted mix of totalitarian slavery and libertine indulgence that the commune represented. According to highly credible published reports, Rajneesh allowed middle aged men to have sexual intercourse with prepubescent girls at the commune in the name of sexual freedom, yet his disciples were not allowed to have a mind of their own and had to totally surrender to the great Bhagwan’s will. Disciples were often forced to work 12 hours a day in cold and difficult conditions, while Rajneesh himself experienced “groovy spaces” in his private heated indoor pool and watched countless movies on his big screen projection television, all the while enjoying his daily supply of drugs. Rajneesh showed his divine love for his disciples by squandering millions in hard earned commune assets on his car collection and expensive jewelry, and all in the name of egolessness and spiritual surrender. [see photo of the flagrantly narcissistic Osho wearing jewel encrusted watch] Why did Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh own over 90 Rolls-Royces? Why did Saddam Hussein own dozens of luxurious palaces? Those desires were products of the base animal mind of two men who grew up surrounded by poverty. Enlightenment does not care about symbols of power and potency. Looking for hidden esoteric explanations for obsessive behavior is pointless. Is there an occult reason that Elton John spends over $400,000. per month on flowers? Is there a secret spiritual reason that Rajneesh had a collection of dozens of expensive ladies’ watches? The universal cosmic consciousness is completely neutral and without any need to possess, impress, or dominate. It also cannot drive or tell time. One of Rajneesh’s most blatant lies was that “the enlightened one gains nothing from his disciples.” Rajneesh wanted people to believe that everything he did was a free gift born of pure compassion, and that he gained nothing personally from the guru-disciple relationship. In obvious provable fact, Rajneesh gained much from his disciples: money, power, sex, and the titillation of constant adoration. Just as rock stars become energized by screaming fans at concerts, Rajneesh gained emotional energy and support from his army of sannyasins. The energy transfer was a two-way street, not a totally free one-way gift. Being a guru was his business, his only business. Without that income, at least on the physical level, he was just a short, balding, physically disabled Indian man who could not hold a job. Rajneesh’s very real enlightenment would not pay his bills or give him the material luxuries he craved. Consciousness needs entertainment to survive, and Rajneesh used his disciples as playthings for his own amusement. Rajneesh had no bankable power of his own, so he could only gain material power by manipulating others to do his will. The equation was simple. The more disciples he attracted, the more power and wealth he obtained. During Rajneesh’s incarceration in America, a security camera while he was being held in a waiting room. Rajneesh looked bored and disgusted, just as any ordinary man might be. He didn’t look blissful or enlightened at all. In my own opinion that video clip revealed the stark truth about the phenomena we call ‘enlightenment.’ The realization of the Void is not enough for anyone. All human animals, enlightened or not, need social interaction and the comforts of the material world to be content. Rajneesh, on so many levels, was just an ordinary man. Sexually he was even less than ordinary. Pretending to be a great Tantric in his early years, Rajneesh handed out ridiculously bad sexual advice at a time when he had very little first hand experience with sex himself. During his Bombay years, Rajneesh often grabbed the breasts of young female disciples. On at least one occasion, he asked a couple to have sex in front of him so that he could watch. The couple wisely rejected his request. Rajneesh often asked women half his age to strip in front of him so that he could “feel their chakras.” To facilitate this practice, he installed an electric lock on his bedroom door that could be activated from a button on his desk. Rajneesh groped the breasts of two of my female friends and “felt the chakras” of a third. I soon began to realize that like so many other girl grabbing Indian gurus who had made the headlines, Rajneesh on the human level was just an ordinary sexually immature Indian male. My lady friend who suffered the chakra feeling incident was so put off that she never came back to see him again. He had told her “Don’t worry. You are mine now.” That grasping statement had chilled her as much as the sexual advance. The young woman was a student of Indian music and had previously been sexually exploited by a famous Indian musician. She knew first hand what many Indian men were like. Rajneesh proved himself to be predictably and disappointingly the same. After Rajneesh started having sexual intercourse on a regular basis, the spiritual need for him to “feel the chakras” of his female disciples mysteriously vanished. Rajneesh rationalized having sex with his female disciples by claiming that the act would bless them so much that they would become enlightened in some future lifetime. His admission years later that there is no such thing as reincarnation made his sexual rationalizations appear even more ridiculous and self-serving. Rajneesh had much inside him that I wanted: light, energy, and a vastly expanded state of being. Regrettably, he also had much inside him that I did not want or respect. I do not find fault with Rajneesh for having the same sexual desires that all men have. I did find fault when he was dishonest and cruel for purely selfish reasons. While living in Bombay, Rajneesh made one young woman pregnant through an aggressive and unasked for seduction. The woman was highly upset and forced by circumstance to have an abortion. In order to protect his image as a great guru, Rajneesh lied about his involvement and claimed that the girl had imagined the whole affair. The young woman told the American Embassy her story, and that incident marked the beginning of Rajneesh’s troubles with the United States Government. Nature has provided human animals with a strong, virtually unstoppable sex drive to ensure reproduction of the species. Because of the overwhelming importance and power of sex, most gurus, enlightened or not, have maintained active sex lives which are often kept secret for purely political reasons. In his early years, Rajneesh lied about his strong sexuality by claiming to be celibate. To be fair, this has to be understood in the context of a rigidly antisexual and highly hypocritical Indian social structure. Later on, after his position as a guru had become secure, Rajneesh publicly bragged to the American media that he had sex “with hundreds of women.” All of Rajneesh’s sex partners were his own female meditation students who were used as his personal harem. All human beings are animals, specifically mammals. Scientists now believe that human DNA is approximately 93% the same as chimpanzee DNA. World history, Asian mythology, politics, and the behavior of alpha male gurus makes allot more sense if you keep that unavoidable fact in mind. Our most primal subconscious motivating forces come from the animal world, which we are still a part of. The last time I visited the Rajneesh ashram in Poona, India, was in 1988. The ashram was literally like a loud convention of German Brownshirts (storm troopers) by that point. Rajneesh, alias “Osho,” was still very popular in Germany due in part to his comments in the German magazine Der Spiegel, which were widely interpreted as being pro-Hitler. Many young Germans, who were looking for a strong and charismatic leader, were thrilled by his words. Those who lost loved ones during World War II were justifiably shocked. Even in the early 1970s in Bombay, Rajneesh made careless statements which could easily be interpreted as being pro-Hitler and pro-fascist. In one lecture on “esoteric groups” he claimed that Adolf Hitler had been telepathically propped up by an occult Buddhist group that Rajneesh himself was in contact with. During World War II it is well known that a number of Brahmin Indian yogis and Japanese “Zen masters” had supported the Axis cause and the extermination of the “inferior races,” so Rajneesh’s claim was not entirely surprising, if not totally believable. In Poona, Rajneesh gave an infamous lecture in which he stated that Jews had given Hitler “no choice” but to exterminate them. In his last years Rajneesh declared that “I have fallen in love with this man (Adolf Hitler). He was crazy, but I am crazier still.” Rajneesh said that he wanted his sannyasins “to take over the world” and that he had studied Hitler to gain insight into how to accomplish the task. For a man who portrayed himself as the world’s smartest, highest, and greatest soul, such remarks were proof to me that his drug use had destroyed the quality of his mind. Rajneesh’s comments about Hitler could be discounted as obnoxious but largely harmless hot air if it were not for the fact that he put many of Hitler’s techniques into practice. Rajneesh used Hitler’s “big lie” method of mind control very effectively, and he demanded total surrender from his troops (disciples). Rajneesh condoned illegal spying on his own followers and used informants to weed out the disloyal. Ma Anand Sheela, his personal secretary, turned the tables on Rajneesh by bugging Rajneesh’s trademark high-backed chair, a betrayal his “third eye” never detected. The Oregon police later found Rajneesh’s illegally taped conversations, but due to rules of evidence they could not be used against him in a court of law. The tapes were reported to be highly damning as to Rajneesh’s culpability in much of the commune’s day to day illegal activities. Rajneesh turned many of his disciples into the equivalent of armed Brownshirts. I have received letters from several of Rajneesh’s former security guards who admitted they had fallen under the spell of fascism and now regretted their behavior and attitudes. One wrote that he did not even know how to meditate, and that the thrill of power was what kept him loyal to his great leader. In Poona, Rajneesh guards beat up an annoying local resident, his hands held behind his back as the guards pummeled him. In Oregon, Rajneesh guards were armed to the teeth with handguns and military style semiautomatic assault rifles. Rajneesh was never an admirer of Mahatma Gandhi, the great Indian pacifist, but he did have a unhealthy fascination with Adolf Hitler, as well as the United States Army General, George Patton. According to Hugh Milne (Shivamurti), Rajneesh watched the movie Patton over and over again on his big screen projection television at his ranch house in Oregon. Perhaps Rajneesh’s worst personal trait was that he could dish it out but he could not take it. He constantly put his disciples through great physical hardships, which resulted in serious illness and even death for some, yet he himself lived in luxury and could not endure physical discomfort without complaining loudly like a baby. After his arrest on October 28th, 1985, at the Charlotte/Douglas International Airport in North Carolina, Rajneesh was interviewed by ABC television news. He began his jailhouse interview by crying in a shrill voice about his less than royal accommodations in the slammer. His high pitched whining was so weird and annoying that Saturday Night Live, NBC’s late night comedy television show, used the footage sarcastically as a joke about “God” complaining. During Rajneesh’s jailhouse appearance on the ABC television show Nightline, Rajneesh gave evasive and dishonest answers to all of Ted Koppel’s questions, and he behaved as an unusually pompous and inept politician caught red handed at illegal activity. Rajneesh claimed that he was not responsible for any of the crimes committed at the commune because he was “in silence.” In proven fact, although Rajneesh had stopped giving public lectures for a time, he had never stopped talking to Ma Anand Sheela and other close disciples. Rajneesh was always the ultimate authority at the commune, even though Sheela committed some of the most serious crimes behind his back. Rajneesh’s favorite Rolls-Royce dealer stated that “the Bhagwan” had spent hours on the telephone talking to him about his often weekly purchases of new automobiles. All of his over 90 Rolls-Royces were paid for from general commune funds on his direct orders, not “gifts” from outsiders as he would later try to claim. Rajneesh was the only person who wanted the cars and he was the only person allowed to drive them. After bankrupting the commune, he claimed that the automobiles were owned by the commune, not by him. In his Nightline interview, Rajneesh pretended not to know that he was leaving the United States during his attempt to escape an impending Federal arrest warrant on racketeering and immigration charges. Rajneesh’s defense was that he was innocently sleeping when police boarded the private jet he had hired to fly to Bermuda. Rajneesh said that he thought Bermuda was just another American state, and that he was going on vacation to rest and to escape “death threats.” The authorities later learned that a Rajneesh disciple with ties to the United States Justice Department had tipped off Rajneesh about his impending arrest. His own sannyasins had not even known that he had left the commune until they learned from the media of the arrest of Rajneesh and several followers at the North Carolina airport. The sad fact was their great “enlightened” guru had secretly abandoned his own disciples, leaving them to face the music all on their own. The luggage of Rajneesh and his companions was searched and found to contain a bag of cash, a box of expensive jewel encrusted watches, and a handgun. [see pictures of the downfall of Rajneesh] The Rajneesh cult had little luck winning over American television viewers. Ma Anand Sheela disgraced herself on Nightline weeks earlier by bursting into loud obscenities, forcing Ted Koppel to take her off the air. Saturday Night Live later broadcast a skit about an auction with actor Randy Quaid selling off “the Bhagwan’s” over 90 Rolls-Royce automobiles. Years later, the The Simpsons, the FOX television network’s wildly popular cartoon show, produced a spoof of Rajneesh that depicted a white gloved guru driving his Rolls-Royce down a muddy commune road as his disciples felt joy at eating his road dirt. In the cartoon, the great guru tried to escape the commune with bags of cash in a homemade peddle driven flying machine. “When it comes to gurus, take the best and leave the rest.” – Ramamurti Mishra During my last visit to the Poona ashram in 1988, Rajneesh was in silence because he was angry at his own disciples. He wanted his sannyasins to demonstrate in the streets against some Indian officials who had spoken out against him. Wisely, no one was interested in creating a new confrontation. This spell of sanity among the flock irritated Rajneesh, who canceled public talks as punishment. I was thus only able to see him on video tape. On the taped lecture, Rajneesh was ranting emotionally, and factually incorrectly, about how the police in the United States had stolen his collection of jewel encrusted ladies’ watches. He said they would never be able to wear them in public because his sannyasins would see the watches on their wrists at airports, train stations, etcetera, and start screaming out loudly that “you stole Bhagwan’s watch!” His words and manner were so childishly irrational that he reminded me of the suicidal cult leader, Jim Jones. This crazy old man, now called “Osho,” was a far cry from the serene, dignified, and highly eloquent Acharya Rajneesh I had met years earlier. Obviously, Rajneesh was not “egoless” as he had often claimed. The human brain is a biologically created thinking machine that has evolved for both personal self-preservation and survival of the species. The ego, which is a selfish motivating force, is needed to protect our colony of living cells (the physical body) from danger and to keep our cells replenished with food and water. If you did not have an ego, you would not be able to think, speak, or find food, shelter, and clothing. Functional magnetic resonance imaging scans (fMRI scans) of Tibetan monks and Hindu yogis have shown that during deep meditation the parts of the brain that gives us a sense of location in time and space are less active. If you slow down the thought process, and at the same time reduce the brain’s sense of location, consciousness loses both its content and its boundaries. You feel infinite, timeless, and empty. This feeling of an infinite Void gives the false impression that ego no longer exists. Egolessness is an illusion because the ego function is a fundamental part of the basic physical structure of the brain itself. Ego cannot be lost unless your brain dies, which will cause your entire body to die. Many enlightened humans have become fooled by the reduction of the space localization function of the brain and believed they no longer had personal selfishness that could cause trouble. Meher Baba spent much of his life bragging about how great he was, yet in his boundaryless consciousness he felt no personal ego. [see picture of Meher Baba] Meher Baba even proclaimed to the world that “No one loves me as much as I deserve to be loved.” In truth, Meher Baba was very egocentric and he should have realized that even the brain phenomena we call “enlightenment” is no excuse for bragging. The same fundamental misjudgment plagued Rajneesh. He became fooled into thinking that he was above arrogance and greed, but that was simply not the case. The ego is hard wired into our neural pathways and cannot be destroyed unless the physical body dies. [see the scientific study of ‘self’] Even enlightened humans have to mind their manners and realize that the Atman is the wondrous phenomena they should promote, not their own temporary personalities. Ramana Maharshi had the right approach in this regard, and that is one reason he is still beloved by all. Ramana Maharshi promoted the Atman, the universal cosmic consciousness, but never his own mortal body and mind. [see photo of Ramana Maharshi] Rajneesh’s spectacular energy was proof that he was enlightened in the Eastern, esoteric sense of the word. The Eastern, esoteric definition of ‘enlightenment’ is an energy phenomena, gained only by those who are totally open to the infinite power of the universe. The Western definition is simply to be a very wise man, which Rajneesh, in my opinion, was not. Even after returning to Poona, Rajneesh continued his Valium
262. brucelevy - December 31, 2009

260. Someone

Yeah, right, whatever.

263. Dr. Pangloss - December 31, 2009

258. Someone

“I have turned my literal poverty into prosperity in a relatively short time and I am proud of it.”

Hey—Congratulations on that. Don’t forget to pay all your Federal and State taxes.

264. WhaleRider - December 31, 2009

Thanks, Sally. Osho’s story is all too familiar.

265. Josiane - December 31, 2009

Someone et al,

Like you, Someone, I have posted on this blog from time to time with a more moderate voice than most. Every time, I have been labeled as being in denial, which I accepted because it could have been true at the time. It’s not true anymore. I feel it is important for moderate bloggers to be heard because it gives hope to those in FoF still unsure of their future outside FoF. If all they hear is rage and revenge, then the exit may be questionable for them. No doubt that there are stages in removing oneself from such a difficult situation but in the end we need to be reconciled with ourselves, with your lives.

And, if there was a civil law suit against RB, I’ll be there.

Take good care of yourselves, and Happy New Year.

266. X-ray - December 31, 2009

260. Someone – December 30, 2009

Maaan… what a real idiot you are!
I’m no longer sure who is more stupid, you or Daily Crap.

267. WhaleRider - December 31, 2009

Josiane et al,

“Revenge (synonym vengeance) is a harmful action against a person or group as a response to a (real or perceived) grievance. Although many aspects of revenge resemble the concept of justice, revenge connotes a more injurious and punitive focus as opposed to a harmonious and restorative one.

Whereas justice generally implies actions undertaken and supported by a legitimate judicial system, by a system of ethics, or on behalf of an ethical majority, revenge generally implies actions undertaken by an individual or narrowly defined group outside the boundaries of judicial or ethical conduct.

The goal of revenge usually consists of forcing the perceived wrongdoer to suffer the same or greater pain than that which was originally inflicted.”

From Wikipedia

If revenge as opposed to justice is what you are perceiving, what “harmful action outside the judicial system” against Burton and his enablers do you think an individual such as myself is calling for?

Speaking for myself, I have only suggested here we drain the victim pool.

268. Someone - December 31, 2009

263. Dr. Pangloss
Thanks,
Yes, I pay it all.
98% of what I make comes from corporate.
I am touched and moved by your deep IRS concern…:)

269. Ames Gilbert - December 31, 2009

Someone (#87-260),
You’ve told us three times now that you have advanced from the path of the monk to the path that aspires to riches. So, we get it. Your advice is unneeded, how the heck do you think we’ve been paying our way in life since we left? Do you think that we are all on welfare or something? Bruce is one of the country’s leading experts in his field, and makes an excellent living at it. He has clients from all over the world. When you have worked in your new field, whatever it is, for thirty–five years, and risen to the top of it, then you will be qualified to give him advice.
You believe that we’re wasting our time here? Got it, no need to state your opinion again. Bruce and I and others obviously believe otherwise. We care to spend the time here, and it is not wasted. We think it is worthwhile warning people about Burton and the Fellowship of Friends. We think it is worthwhile to tell people in the Fellowship things we have found out while we were leaving and after we left. We know this is worthwhile because people tell us so. They tell us that we helped them leave, and they tell us that we helped and provided a little comfort to them on their new paths.

What does it matter if Bruce was abused 30 years ago or yesterday? The abuser is still abusing people. Burton is still conning people. Burton is still manipulating people. Burton is still lying through his teeth. Burton is still mentally ill. Burton is still completely controlled by greed, is still a satyr. And Burton continues to do great harm.

Go back to your masters and tell them I’ll leave off when the ‘prospective student’ meetings and the FoF websites tell the whole truth. The Fellowship of Friends uses the Fourth Way as bait to attract followers, but there is nothing of the Fourth Way in the organization. It is, rather, a new religion that worships Burton. Burton will demand sex from the better looking heterosexual males, in the name of their spiritual progress. Burton will demand absolute obedience in perpetuity. There is no graduation from his organization. He lies about his past, and he lies when he imagines he can predict the future, as evidenced by his one hundred percent record of failure. He lies when he claims to be an intermediary with supposed angels, and he lies when he claims he is ‘conscious’. Of course if the truth was told in these meetings, no one would join, so the deceit must continue. Go, tell your masters!

270. Someone - December 31, 2009

265. Josiane
Thank you,

I agree. Personally my only option is to be true to myself as much I can.

I am trying to let go of my past mistakes, my self-judgment and judgment of others in the FOF. I’m not doing it for that sake of any ideal or “higher aim”; I just see that getting rid of all this FOF burden is a blessing for me.

Now I feel quite impartial when I turn to those who are caught-up in the FOF trap after leaving and honestly say LET GO.

One cannot expect everyone to immediately accept their situation if at all. One of the true things that I learnt long ago in the FOF (in its 4th way form) is that one would not give up one’s own suffering. It is simple truth and has nothing to do with any particular School work and the FOF cannot be proud of any success in achieving it.

If that helps current members make their own decisions, fine, but frankly, I do not address them nor do I bother if the stay or leave. I do care about those who physically left, but mentally are trapped deep inside.

I decided to write here again for a while, because I felt comfortable enough to say what I feel out of a clean place inside without being concerned of bluntness.

Have a Happy New Year.

271. Someone - December 31, 2009

269. Ames Gilbert

It does matter if something bad happened 30 years ago of if it happened last month!!! There is a big difference between the two.

Old wounds do hurt, but they carry a significantly different kind of pain than fresh ones. Old wounds turn to be matted and it should be that way. But if one is constantly scratching them, the pain becomes fresh again.

From what you wrote, I realize that you have recruited yourself to fight RB and the FOF for the rest of your life? Is that what it is?

Does this combat yield any tangible results? After four years I’m quite doubtful.

This blog has started as a promising tool for establishing a lawsuit and for sharing emotions and thoughts. Now it has turned into something quite different.

It is dominated by 20-30 hard-core ex-members vigorously protecting one line of thought and bluntly attacking different approaches. The most unfortunate are the futile combats against DC. I think he is taking you for a ride and you are all falling into his trap every single time.

I am not saying that all ex-members writing here are in the same degree of obsession, but there are some who are deeply obsessed with the FOF.

272. Golden Veil - December 31, 2009

*

Fellowship of Friends / Pathway to Presence Discussion

Dear Someone / 270,

I disagree. I discern erudite, witty thoughts here, and find

deeply felt emotions, often poignantly expressed. The aim

to dismantle Robert Burton’s Temple of Lies and Perversion

is an admirable one. If I can, I want to assist in this purpose.

Reading your letters I suddenly caught a glimpse of them in

the form of a mirror, held in your hands, before your face.

Perhaps you are the one with a bothersome obsession to

attend to, and your concern should be directed to your own Self.

I wonder how you can possibly feel qualified to belittle the pain

felt by other ex-students. Pain that you have not experienced.

*

273. Someone - December 31, 2009

272. Golden Veil

There is some truth in what you wrote. I am not yet completely free of the FOF load, but it is getting much better.

RB and the FOF deserve a great deal of impartial criticism, but that is not the issue here anymore.

The ideological combat against the FOF in this blog has turned into a pseudo combat. Now it looks like a narrow ditch somewhere on the roads from which a small group of people are pulling out the same stuff again and again, recycling it and throwing it back to the same place they took it from, just to pull it out again.

Gurdjieff wrote once that he could kill a Yak from a 1,000 yards distance. Well…you can be assured that he could not. Gurdjieff “killed” it and went one way and the Yak went happily the other way.

That is exactly what is occurring here, people think they are killing the Yak, from a WEB distance, but in reality they are not. They are just imagining they are in the middle of Yak hunting whereas they are in a middle of an obsessive whirlpool.

If one could count the amount of time some of the active ex-members here have spent just in this blog alone it could come to months if not more.

274. Ill Never Tell - December 31, 2009

247. WhaleRider:

Very well presented and of highest commendation, but your keying may be have other interpretations.

‘To “do” someone is to have sex with them while they remain passive. A Grecian Urn dating 300 B.C. depicts an elderly man, possibly Socrates, having conscious sex with several cavorting young boys. If the Early Greeks did it, it must be OK.’

Yes, what you say is good, one can not do; but two can do – or is that: toucan do? If the toucan do, wear it anyway. That’s the Fellowship of Friends speak for what is known as: If the fu sh!ts, wear it anyway. Or, is that: If the shoe does not fit, wear it anyway. That’s what happens to a brainwashed devotee – confusion.

‘“Unto” or “un-two”. . .’
Yes, ‘un-two’ is the same as: Where two and more are gathered, there is orgy.

‘Brightest Light in two thousand years!
Didn’t you mean: Blightist Rite in two thousand years!?

‘“Others” rhymes with “mothers”. . .’
Didn’t you mean: Udders? Do water buffalo have udders? Yes, that’s where the toucan do. Photograph of our Asia water buffalo (Bubalus bubalis) expressing milk for buffalo mozzarella fresca, also known as: mozzarella di bufala – while a toucan rides on its back, squawking, ‘What fools these mortals be.’

‘“As” refers to. . .’ No, silly, it is: ass, as in: ‘Do unto others’ ass what is done to yours.’

‘“You” stands for “ewe”. . .’ No, again, silly, it is: ”Use,’ stands for: Use others as yous see fit.’ After all, everyone is no better than a life person; take full advantage. Photograph of unsuspecting Fellowsheeper being fleeced – one of the first cards discarded from the tarot deck of cards.

‘“Would” refers to. . .’ Now that one you got right. In FoF speak: ‘Shoulda, coulda, woulda, is dida!’ (Dida is the past tense of do – the sex thing – as in: The Teacher did do that dude.) Everthing is backwards and upside-down, in the FoF fourth way way. That posture is called 69 – twocan do. Real smart!

‘“Have them” or “halve them” symbolizes . . .’ Close but no cigar – close only counts in whorsesh!t, handgrenades, and heehaw dancing. Photograph of ‘Judgment of Solomon’ (1 Kings 3:16-28. Cutting a child in half to discover who their true mother was. ‘Judgment of Solomon,’ Pilgrimage Church of Frauenberg in Styria (Austria), ceiling fresco in the rectory (“emperor’s room”). Unknown 17th century (?) painter. Or, maybe, it is a picture of a circumcision? Soon to be copied and painted onto The Teacher’s badroom ceiling by an unknown 21st century (?) painter.):

Example of the one-time Fellowship of Friends policy of all children left behind: throw the baby out with the bath water. (Your mental picture of pandering pope – in penury – parade to Pluto’s palace is pathetic – but probably as good as any of mine.)

‘“Do” or the second do as in “doo doo”. . .’ Good one, but, dodo, picture of a now extinct flightless bird (Raphus cucullatus of Mauritius; extinction in late 17th century). Extinction is the preferred outcome for Fellowsleepers – no one gets their wings.

‘“Unto you”. . .’ You got that one right, as in: I’m incontinent. What I do to myself and you, I expect you to do to yourself and me. It all makes sense, does it not?

We make American Excess, Passport Visas, Green Cards and MasterBaiters; care to discharge?

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

257. arthur:

‘This phrase was quoted in the article and attributed to Dr. Judith Herman. “Powerlessness is the central expression of trauma”.

Maybe lashing out in a moment of powerlessness is a symptom of PTSD. It made a lot of sense to me.’

Poverty is the worst form of violence.
Mohandas Gandhi

275. Ill Never Tell - December 31, 2009

261. sallymcnally:

‘Years later, the The Simpsons, the FOX television network’s wildly popular cartoon show, produced a spoof of Rajneesh that depicted a white gloved guru driving his Rolls-Royce down a muddy commune road as his disciples felt joy at eating his road dirt. In the cartoon, the great guru tried to escape the commune with bags of cash in a homemade peddle driven flying machine.’

Bares reposting:

The Joy of Sect
Starring: The Simpsons
Time: 21:37 Size: 57.65Mb
English w/Russian voice over.
http://rutube.ru/tracks/1986794.html?v=226b208c5a3616b7bc60094b82d5c33e
The English is hard to hear under the Russian but you can get the story – especially for the Russians watching here.
This segment has been suppressed in the west by property rights protection. Funny how that freedom of information thing has changed!

276. Jomo Piñata - December 31, 2009

274/I’ll Never Tell

“Powerlessness is the central expression of trauma”. (quoting Judith Herman)

The youtube videos which Another Name linked to some time ago, featuring Dr. Robert Scaer, make a closely related point. Scaer’s theory is that chronic PTSD symptoms occur because of a failure to discharge the “freeze” response (as in “flight, fight or freeze). He anchors his human theory in the animal data. Very interesting material, as is his book, The Body Bears The Burden. Recommended.

277. ton - December 31, 2009

someone,
if a couple of times a week i take 15 minutes to look at the blog and post my response, does that count as obsessive? i don’t think so but maybe i’m wrong… whatever your judgment may be as to the type and degree of obsession here, i ask again why should you care how i or anyone else directs their time and attention? is your intention here to save me or anyone else? somehow i don’t think so… i don’t think you are concerned at all with others, there’s something else going on. mostly it sounds like you’re trying to impress, apparently you’re very impressed with yourself. so good for you, obviously you learned well from that parasite you think of as your “teacher” — you learned what it means to be “successful” in life. now i ask you, is a trip to brazil with your cabana boys included, supposed to be impressive? is your “material success” supposed to prove something? to me it sounds like you are just another human pig, blinded by the empty allure of consumption just like your “teacher.” you may feel that you need to live up to some imaginary standards of “success,” that you have to prove something to yourself and others… but it’s all an illusion.

i think you are clinging to the belief that your FOLLOWSHIP experience was worthwhile… afterall it seems like you learned certain values there, for example the definition of “success” and the importance of being a “successful” little materialist just like your “teacher.” you like to think that the FOLLOWSHIP experience was “special” and it confers some of that “specialness” on you. right? so good for you…

i think you really couldn’t care less about the welfare of “obsessive” bloggers, i think you still have faith in and allegiance to your experience with the FOLLOWSHIP and you are much more concerned with protecting what in your mind is your personal legacy vis-a-vis the FOLLOWSHIP…. that’s understandable, the most difficult thing in life is letting go… you say you are a relatively recent graduate, good luck with that… you don’t sound like a particularly reflective person but maybe that can change and with time you may see things very differently.

278. ton - December 31, 2009

276 jomo, here’s a brief excerpt from scaer’s OBSERVATIONS ON TRAUMATIC STRESS…

as it may pertain to the stories about burton’s relationship to his mommy:

“In his book, Affect Regulation and the Origin of the Self, Allen Schore has outlined in exquisite detail the psychobiology of early childhood development involving maturation of orbitofrontal and limbic structures based on reciprocal experiences with the care giver. (14). Dysfunctional associations in this dyadic relationship result in permanent physicochemical and anatomical changes which have implications for personality development as well as for a wide variety of clinical manifestations. An intimate relationship may exist, with negative child/care giver interaction leading to a state of persisting hypertonicity of the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems that may profoundly affect the arousal state of the developing child. Sustained hyperarousal in these children may markedly affect behavioral and characterological development. “

279. X-ray - December 31, 2009

271. Someone – December 31, 2009

269. Ames Gilbert

‘It does matter if something bad happened 30 years ago of if it happened last month!!! There is a big difference between the two.’

Someone,
No, there is no difference between the two at all.
You should be happy that Ames have even talked to you, relating to you seriously, and you should be listening to what he has to say, instead of sharing more of your stupidity.
You are pathetic idiot, and shill of fellowship of sheep.

280. arthur - December 31, 2009

I’ll Never Tell (274),

“Poverty is the worst form of violence” (Mohandas Gandhi) reminded me of how Rodney Colin stated the idea, “Poverty is a Grind”. When I submitted my post Poverty was on my mind but lack the words to express it.

One day recently I was talking with a neighbor who was familar with the neighborhood where I was born and lived for the first 12 years. I asked him whether I was born in a barrio or ghetto. He said ghetto only in relation to today’s standards. Being “ground violently” does leave its imprint.

Jomo Pinata (276),

“Scaer’s theory is that chronic PTSD symptoms occur because of a failure to discharge the ‘freeze’ response (as in flight. fight or freeze). I’ve “done” all three as in stimulas response depending on the situation and whether the outcome is survival. One day I was walking in the predawn light down a San Francisco street. Two men stepped out of building indention and asked for a light. While I lit the marijuana cigarette the other slowly walked around me. Somehow I kept my eye on both and they realized it. For me this was a freezing moment. The walking around me stirred up “history”.

Ton (278),

The quotation of Scaer was too diffcult for me to understand (little being) except for the thought that it somehow refered to me.

For me “powerlessness” means being constantly on guard. Friendly with all but watchful at the same time. Where I live the city has rules. No weeds or brush over 12 inches. Only four garage sales a year. I’ve been “put upon” with both of these rules. And, both are connected with poverty. In 1981 I had no income and no desire to rob or steal. Garage Sales with the help of neighbors sounded good.

“Success is when you get up in the morning and go to bed at night and in between do what you want to do”. Bob Dylan

One day my lawn mower broke and no money to replace it. The weeds were pulled by h

281. arthur - December 31, 2009

Pushed the wrong button: Too long winded anyway.

282. Silentpurr - December 31, 2009

Someone
Identities are not important.
Pathways to Presence hides the truth as a sharp little shard behind it’s advertising allure, possibly attracting genuine magnetic centers.
I can accept the fact that many members join and stay taking advantage of the numerous country-club features of the fellowship.
Those people have every right to spend time and money as they please.
They wouldn’t be interested in what is offered here, anyway.I am mostly interested in sincerity.
For myself, the blog is an important tool for processing my own psychology. I also feel a connection with others here who wish for an investigation.
The people who contribute, speak from their being.
You may find it harsh right now, but eventually you too may feel rage and the need to express it.
Here, at this blog are people who will understand and not judge.

283. Silentpurr - December 31, 2009

In addition, the fellowship’s “truth” is the truth about Robert Burton and his penchant for heterosexual men. If that is Robert’s pathway to presence, why not advertise it as such?

284. Jomo Piñata - December 31, 2009

‘ton, that Schore book has been on my “want to read” list for a few years now. Glad we’re mining the same territory. We should compare booklists offline.

285. veramente - December 31, 2009

273 Someone

The ideological combat against the FOF in this blog has turned into a pseudo combat. Now it looks like a narrow ditch somewhere on the roads from which a small group of people are pulling out the same stuff again and again, recycling it and throwing it back to the same place they took it from, just to pull it out again.
————————-
You would like to think the above is true, but it is not.
It’s a metaphor for your imagination/fiction.

286. waskathleenw - December 31, 2009

Someone,

It can take a long time to fully understand what happened in the Fellowship of Friends. It’s common to hold the reasons for leaving in one hand and the reasons why it was all worthwhile in the other — for a very long time. Holding both this way softens the edges of what is hard to look at and admit. It took me a lot of years to let go of that psychological balancing act. It sounds as though you aren’t there yet, and you are preaching to people who have seen way more of the exit process than you have.

You may feel differently about all this in 10 years, and I think you could learn a lot from the people here if you would listen rather than preach about things you don’t yet have the experience to understand.

I wish I’d had this resource when I left.

287. Daisy-Jane - December 31, 2009

# 261 Sallymcnally

‘Enlightenment is not something you own; it is something you channel.

Whatever term you use for the phenomena of enlightenment, it is scientifically accurate to say that no human being has any power of their own. Even the chemical energy of our metabolism is borrowed from the sun, which beams light to the earth, which is then converted by plants through photosynthesis into the food we eat. You may get your bread from the supermarket, but the caloric energy it contains originated from thermonuclear reactions deep in the center of a nearby star. Our physical bodies run on star power. Any “spiritual” energy we channel also comes from far beyond, from all sides of the universe, from the complete TES, from beyond the oceans of galaxies, and onto infinity. No human being owns the Atman, and no one can speak for the TES.’

Thanks for that. I like it. Kind of cuts through all the BS.

A happy, healthy and prosperous new year to you all.

288. Ames Gilbert - December 31, 2009

Someone (#87-271),
Let us imagine that Asaf, or some other important honcho being groomed to take over the FoF after Burton wanted, to come up with various schemes to protect his inheritance. Among other things, wouldn’t he want to attend to the nuisance of this blog? And if so, wouldn’t that person likely sound just like you do?
Your latest protestation, that you are here because you care for the well–being of those spending too much time on the blog, is pushing my incredulity button big time.

There are several schools of thought about how and whether to interact with DC. I choose to spend some time and energy with him because one never knows. Some of my assumptions about various ‘old–timers’ being too inflexible to change were exploded last year when one told me that the blog, including my thoughts, did help them leave. One never knows.

289. Spock - January 1, 2010

To My Dear Former Friends in the Fellowship,

When you listen to the New Year’s Toast of your Beloved Teacher, please remember how many of you he is trying to coerce into having sex with him — promising you salvation and rewards in heaven, and threatening you with shame and defeat should you deny him — and how this habit is leaving a trail of emotional destruction and illness.

If truth and understanding and awakening are TRULY your life’s quest, then open your eyes to this. Another decade ends, and another year in the school has past. Take nothing seriously but your aim to awaken — your conscience and your common sense.

290. Spock - January 1, 2010

283. Silentpurr
“In addition, the fellowship’s “truth” is the truth about Robert Burton and his penchant for heterosexual men. If that is Robert’s pathway to presence, why not advertise it as such?

This is an GREAT point — a powerful question. Not a silent purr at all, but a lion’s roar.

If Burton’s obviously sick penchant for getting as much cock as he can with literally as many men as he possibly can as often as possible through whatever means are necessary… if this is somehow “good” for anyone’s evolution or spiritual growth, which is what some of the shills are saying, then why hide it? Why not tell everyone, and why not advertise it to people everywhere when they join?

“Thank you for joining. Welcome aboard. And by the way, since you are a relatively young male, give it a few weeks or months, but the Teacher will be requesting some private time with you in his bedroom. If you perform well, you’ll be taken on trips abroad, and be given colorful silk clothes and expensive shoes.”

Why not send out a newsletter announcing interviews and auditions?

Answer: Not a good sales pitch for an organization that pretends to promote spiritual growth.

Regarding this idea that “moderate” views are not welcome on the blog… Moderate views are completely welcome, since anyone can post their thoughts here. The problem is that moderate views are not welcome in the Fellowship, such as, “You know, I could be wrong, and it may be just my false personality or my chief feature saying this, but I think there may be something slightly weird and sick with Robert trying to get as much cock as he can.”

You see, now THAT’s a moderate view… But it’s COMPLETELY unwelcome in the FOF. That person would get kicked out of the school by saying it. So if you’re looking for a place where “moderate” viewpoints aren’t welcome, just take a closer look at the Fellowship of Friends.

But, getting back to the blog, if by moderation you mean ignorance and cognitive dissonance, you are completely right — people will quickly disagree with that type of “moderation.” And I’m glad they do.

Again… check out Dick Moron’s film… Sure, it’s good for a laugh. But if you’re a “current member,” beware. It hits you in a visceral way — goes straight for the jugular. Not Ames, not WhaleRider, not Ton, not all of the other outstanding contributors here have gotten to the heart of the matter quite so well:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5861131/

Happy New Year…

291. another voice - January 1, 2010

waskathleen 286:

Well said.

292. Daily Cardiac - January 1, 2010

Moderator – 219:

“Please share with us some of the “so many fictions”. I’m quite curious”

ton – 220:

“it’s good of you to be so concerned with the welfare of ex-members… now i’ll take my tongue from my cheek and ask you a question: would you give some examples of the “many fictions and make up stroies that never took place…” ”

Ames – 223:

“If you can indeed identify the ‘so many fictions and make up stories from direct personal knowledge’, I strongly encourage you to go right ahead.If you can indeed identify the ‘so many fictions and make up stories from direct personal knowledge’, I strongly encourage you to go right ahead.”

What’s “curious”, to quote the Moderator, or perhaps “curiouser” to quote LC, is the interest in wanting to hear about what Someone has to say about “fictions” making their way to the blog.

For one thing I’d have to take the interest indicated in the above quotes as being facetious or sarcastic in nature rather than sincere; as no ex member on this blog has ever weighed (at least not over the blog) the correctness or truthfulness of any comment by anyone being remotely tolerant or supportive of the FoF/RB. Forget about agreeing with the comments, they have not been admitted on any level as being credible or even possible.

It can be assumed that in the entire 87 pages of the blog not one opponent of FoF/RB has ever admitted or acknowledged that any supporter’s comments were true or valid if the supporter’s comments were expressing something positive or favorable. I have not read every single posting, but in the many I have read I have not encountered such an occurrence. It could be further stated that all positive or favorable postings about FoF/RB have been refuted or dismissed by one or more opponents as an out right lie or a delusional comment. And out of all the negative or unfavorable postings by ex members not once has an FoF opponent ever disputed or disagreed with the findings of another opponent.

Another way of stating this is that according to ex member testimony all negative or unfavorable postings about RB are true, and all favorable or positive postings by current members or supporters are false. If one simply considers the pure mathematics of it one would conclude that the odds of this being the case are pretty slim. If anyone uncovers an exchange between opponent and supporter here that would disprove this supposition please post it.

What’s interesting in this latest instance is that Someone is also an ex member who, by his or her own account, has no interest in going back to the FoF or supporting RB but only dared to point something out to Bruce regarding the zealous nature of his comments after being out of the organization for close to 30 years, and concluding that there was a certain level of obsession going on. And actually Someone, as I read their post, was not being difficult or demeaning in any way but was coming from a place of trying to offer an honest observation.

Bruce, being Bruce, dismissed Someone’s contentions that he or she, based on Bruce’s own postings, could actually perceive legitimate insights into Bruce’s reality. But Bruce and several others make this claim on a daily basis about my reality, as well as the realities of anyone they disagree with.

So my question to others is – does this apparent contradiction bother anyone else? If as Bruce contends Someone cannot draw accurate insights from what he says how is it possible that Bruce and others claim to do precisely this on a routine basis? This seems to be the stuff of fiction to me.

But it is typical of many posters here to recoil from any hint of error in judgment or misinformation on their part; which, contrary to their beliefs, does not lend more credence to their contributions but only stamps them as being inflexible and delusional with regard to their own beliefs.

Regarding Someone’s assertions about fictions on the blog; obviously anything he or she proposes could be contested just like anything said in opposition of FoF can be contested. As I’ve said numerous times nothing written here can be either proved or disproved; this is the case for blogs in general. And any statement can be contested or sanctioned.

I would offer one example of a fiction, and a glaring one at that.

This regards a comment by A.T. some time ago. A.T. commented that she was seated next to RB at a Salon dinner and detected the smell of semen on his breath as he leaned over to speak to her. She further stated that he must have performed fellatio on a student immediately before entering the Salon.

This posting was one of the most lauded and praised comments at the time and actually it is one of the easiest to expose as being bogus in nature. The reason it is so transparently fictitious is because in order for it to be true laws of physics would have to be broken.

First of all semen is not toxic or a waste matter and hence gives off no strong odor. In fact it contains half of the Life Force and as such is the most refined fluid in the human organism. It contains no airborne aromatic properties, unlike many herbs or other plants/flowers, minerals, compounds.

If an open container of semen would have been placed on the dining table it could not have beeen easily detected by smell, if at all. But the real truth can be drawn from the fact that semen is immediately broken down by acids and enzymes found in saliva and any traces of it would have been dissolved within a few seconds.

Yet A. T. would have us believe that after every one was seated at the table and after a 15 minute concert was performed and the time it took for the food to arrive (which does produce strong aromas) and a toast proposed, and somewhat later, probably after a few bites of food were taken, as Robert leaned over and spoke to A she was taken aback with the undeniable smell of semen on his breath.

This is just one fiction, made evident by laws of physics. Many other examples are just as evident because they bypass laws of reason and probability, but those laws being more abstract are more easily dismissed by an unreasoned mind.

The chief fiction on the blog is that the FoF is a destructive cult and RB a charlatan. Of course it can’t be proved or disproved on this blog, and the truth or falsity of it can only be verified on a personal level.

It’s a spiritual matter and can only be known on an earthly plane by those who rise up to a state of cognition where spiritual matters can be distinguished and separated from earthly matters.

I’ll admit it’s tempting for people to think they can determine with surety just what an organization that claims to be spiritual in nature really is or is not.

But there are only two ways (that I know) to distinguish the spiritual from the earthly: By raising one’s state to the level where one can be in communion with spirit matter or by waiting until one’s death when spirit matter in us is separated from our bodies and we are shown many realities previously mysterious to us.

But in any event one day we will all know everything there is to know about RB and FoF.

293. 2010 - January 1, 2010

#292 “First of all semen is not toxic or a waste matter and hence gives off no strong odor.”

Maybe she meant that she smelled cock on him. Have you ever kissed your girlfriend after she blew you?

Hey DC what’s your take on that David Lu*be*s letter?

294. fofblogmoderator - January 1, 2010

293 is new
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