jump to navigation

Fellowship Of Friends Discussion, part 74 June 2, 2009

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.

Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

For recent pages from the blog go here

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

To visit “Pathway To Presence”, the newly created web site for recruiting new members to the Fellowship; http://www.pathwaytopresence.org

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban or a leave of absence from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/


1. fofblogmoderator - June 2, 2009

We obviously ran into some legal problems for a couple of days. It seems I will have to scrutinize the posts a little more closely.

It also seemed like there was an unbalanced level of contributions by certain participants here. I would like to suggest that everyone limit their contributions to a few posts per day.

2. brucelevy - June 2, 2009




3. veramente - June 3, 2009


4. sallymcnally - June 3, 2009


5. elena - June 3, 2009

Thank you Steve for taking care of the dirty work. You’ve been a great moderator.

If you give us some guidelines of what you need to keep in control maybe we can help by not abusing those guidelines without stopping to touch on what matters.

Thank you again.

6. Ames Gilbert - June 3, 2009

“# 74-4 (June 2, 2009)
So, I am to understand that because some FoF lawyer made a complaint to WordPress, they pulled the first comment on the last page (#1-73) by Black Marker, “in response to a copyright infringement notice”?
Did WordPress do this without contacting the moderator? Without verifying that this letter by “David Springfield”, that is, David Lubbers, was already widely circulated and therefore in the public domain? That the letter itself refers to events, such as the bigamous marriages of Asaf Braverman, the illegal inurement and misuse of members’ funds by Robert Burton, the illegal misuse of “religious visas” to procure fresh victims for Burton’s insatiable appetites and as cheap, malleable labor? That the letter itself refers to the activities of the ‘shadow’ Board of Directors, all of whom have been and are appointed by Burton specifically so they will rubberstamp every one of his decisions—the board that for its entire history has abrogated its legal oversight responsibilities to the members of the Fellowship of Friends, to the taxpaying public, and to the IRS? That the letter itself refers to the monitoring of this blog, to scheming and conspiring to attack the contributors to the blog?

There is nothing copyrightable about material in the public domain. ‘Copyright’ and ‘public domain’ are mutually exclusive. Not only that, the law specifically refers to the principle of fair use. Quoting the letter, even in its entirety, is fair use in this context. And this is the context: the blog (when it not masquerading as the ‘Nigel Harris Price Show’) has several purposes, one of which is to expose to the general public, to prospective members of the Fellowship of Friends, and to present members of the Fellowship of Friends who have open minds, the moral and legal and spiritual frauds at the heart of the organization. The letter quoted by Black Marker shows as well as any of the testimony gathered so far the extent of the legal and moral fraud, so WordPress can hardly consider it not germane to the issue, purpose and context.

Goodness me, is the information that Burton recently took a ‘pay cut’ of $15k (from the official $50k to $35k), and widely publicized amongst the laity to show he was also “making sacrifices”, copyrighted? Is the knowledge that most of his income is off the record and off the books, copyrighted? Is the knowledge that members in the past have received inflated paychecks, paid taxes at a low rate, then written checks to Burton—is knowledge of this tax avoidance scheme copyrighted? Is the knowledge that Burton is the king of inurement—that almost the whole purpose of the Fellowship of Friends and the majority of the income is to support him in the style he has become accustomed to, copyrighted? Is the knowledge that foreign centers pay directly for his expenses abroad so he can avoid reporting that income in the U.S.A., copyrighted? Is knowledge that certain bequests made in cash went unreported as income, copyrighted? I don’t think so, Fellowship lawyers!

I could go on and on, and maybe I will…
And hey, I invite anyone with expertise on copyright law to set me straight if I am mistaken.

7. fofblogmoderator - June 3, 2009

Hey Ames, I did receive notification from WordPress and they offered me the option of contesting the complaint. The complaint that was lodged was the following;

“This is a complaint about copyright infringement and egregious invasion of privacy related to the following blog posting…….”

The “plaintiff” went on to state that it was an infringement of attorney-client privacy rights, etc.

I don’t know the law and maybe the attorney (plaintiff) doesn’t either. The link to the letter is still active on page 72 from a post by “What The,,,?” at #293. The link takes you to an internet archive website. Does this constitute public domain? Beats me, but I thought it was best to delete post #1 on page 73 (the pasted full text version) and get the blog up and running again.

I think if people want to see how far “the letter” can be used as an official testimony to the level of corruption and abuse inside the FOF, then a collection should be taken to hire Mr Green (I believe that was the name of the cult-buster) or someone qualified in this area. I think the letter is extremely damaging and all efforts should be pursued to see if this could be used to finally shed some legal light on the questionable practices inside the FOF.

At one point the Sheik set up a paypal account and I sent him money a number of times. I’ve never asked for any contributions to compensate for my time maintaining the blog- nor will I ever. This is the one time I will ask for money. It’s not for me. It’s to give to the lawyer and someone who will volunteer here to act as our liaison/representative between our evidence (the petition, more personal testimonies, records of money given to the FOF and the letter) and our hired attorney.

It’s been a long day for me and maybe I’m way off base here. I’d like to hear feedback. It seems that if any truth is going to be discovered about the true nature of the business practices of the FOF, now is the time to try to shed some light.

How interesting to know that FOF agents are reading this and pondering how to defend their den of deceit.

8. Panoritsa - June 3, 2009


Thank you very much for all this work.

I will certainly donate for an attempt to look into the corruption and abuse inside the FOF.

9. 'I see' said the blind man - June 3, 2009

It isn’t reasonable to let the moderator feel exposed and liable. If someone is out there who has some legal savvy this is a good way to chip in. Paid lawyers are to be avoided unless they have a definite brief as it will tend towards an expensive retainer scenario and we should have the means to make things safe enough ourselves. I have full confidence in the moderator to represent the interests of the blog, but we would do well to have some guidelines established. If an archive is in the public domain it is hardly an effort to click on the link , so with regards to potentially sensitive information we can be more guarded in the interests of not jeopordsing this means of communication. We hope, after all, that current members are given acces to a dfferent kind of opinon of the FOF happenings that allows them a more balanced view of the institution.
Maybe volutarily limiting the more personal posts to help keep this blog foucused is a good idea. If you have a pet, walk on a partitioned GF lawn where it can crap hygenically, is a good rule of thumb, not here where everybody has to avoid stepping in it.

10. Associated Press - June 3, 2009

Link at 72/293 going to archive(dot)org, where offending documents did exist, are now gone.

You could do a Google search on ‘FofBoardWarning’ for what still may exist in cyberspace for a short period of time.

One thing found that way was a cached version of the earlier FoF Blog page 73 where 1/73 was not expunged. This may not last very long, so, if you want to preserve it, download a copy to your computer for future reference and use.
Here is a link:

11. Associated Press - June 3, 2009

If that one does not work, try this one:

12. Across the River - June 3, 2009

#7 Steve

Thanks for the time you spend to keep this blog open and running. You really have been a great moderator.

For what it’s worth, my feedback to you regarding a new push toward exposing the Fellowship is to consider there are few people willing to make sustained efforts to see something through, especially at the legal level. I remember Sheik Pavel’s surprise at the lack of takers for moderating the blog when he wanted to stop. It has been a crazy uphill effort to get 151 signatures on the petition and enough documented letters to support the abuses described in it. Ford Greene gave us more than we paid for because he’s personally interested in shutting down the Fellowship, and his fee was easily managed because one person stepped up to cover the cost and ‘fundraising’ wasn’t needed.

I guess how much we invest trying to expose the abuses has to be a personal decision, and it has been amazing to see the range of response from former members. Based on the number, and the easy access to the blog and the GF site, the collective response has been extremely passive. It’s something I can’t understand, but it’s undeniable.

I think the demise will be a slow erosion from exposures here, there and everywhere. That can be tough to accept for those of us who feel more urgency to stop what goes on in the Fellowship.

13. dragon - June 3, 2009

#7 Steve

Thank you for your tireless work!!! 🙂

You need the support of those who are willing to uncover the machination of the Fellowship of Friends (a factory trying to produce perfect spineless jellyfishes but there is something going wrong…… with the production)

Really interesting how the FOF agents give themselves away with their
infantile behaviour.

14. dragon - June 3, 2009


“Pagan Poetry”


Pedalling through
The dark currents
I find
An accurate copy
A blueprint
Of the pleasure
In me

Swirling black lilies totally ripe
A secret code carved
Swirling black lilies totally ripe
A secret code carved

He offers
A handshake
Five fingers
They form a pattern
Yet to be matched

On the surface simplicity
But the darkest pit in me
It’s pagan poetry
Pagan poetry

Morsecoding signals (signals)
They pulsate (wake me up) and wake me up
(pulsate) from my hibernating

On the surface simplicity
Swirling black lilies totally ripe
But the darkest pit in me
It’s pagan poetry
Swirling black lilies totally ripe
Pagan poetry

Swirling black lilies totally ripe

I love him, I love him
I love him, I love him
I love him, I love him
I love him, I love him
She loves him, she loves him

This time
She loves him, she loves him
I’m gonna keep it to myself
She loves him, she loves him
She loves him, she loves him
This time
I’m gonna keep me all to myself
She loves him, she loves him
And he makes me want to hurt myself again
She loves him, she loves him
She loves him, she loves him
And he makes my want to hand myself over

There were no words for my surprise………………
LOVE to you for those wonderful songs from an outer space………………

It was the right moment for my family and me,
Thank You Nigel! Enchanting! 🙂

15. More history needed? - June 3, 2009

Dear Across the river

Thanks for the accessibility to the blog
Still 1592 in the fellowship of friends…..as of yesterday. Slow erosion indeed?

16. elena - June 3, 2009

Thank you for the strength of your post and the enumeration of all the things that need to be paid attention to.

The tone and power you use are much needed and welcome. Unfortunately it is very easy to criticize and talk about the Harris Show while coming up with one wonderfully strong letter every six months. Nigel, you’re no saint either like nobody here is and you do over do it quite often as I have also, but thank you for being here. Sorry you didn’t enjoy my suggestions.

I also much respect whatever the moderator thought better to do in that situation. If he had a direct link and open support of some of the lawyers and people here he might have chosen a different route but this things work themselves out after the need becomes obvious.

FoFblogmoderator, you can also count on some money from me when you open the paypal. We might be a few people Across the River, but even one baby crying non-stop, becomes unbearable sooner than later. It’s been only three years against thirty five. I agree that the material at hand today is richer than some of what went into the petition before, maybe a little more could be done.

The fact that we are being able to talk on this blog is already a lot more than we ever had in the Fellowship.

17. fofblogmoderator - June 3, 2009

I’m going to contact Ford Greene today and see what he says about the letter. If a judge would allow it into evidence on a pending case then it must not be all that private. The FOF agents are removing any trace of this letter whenever and wherever they can. This letter is VERY DAMAGING. We may not get an opportunity like this again.

I also was thinking, when we were given our prospective student meetings we were told to “verify” everything. Once in the FOF we were given more and more info that was unverifiable-; Robert is a goddess in a man’s body, the greatest light in 2000 years, self remembering will allow a sustained existence after the physical body is gone. We gave thousands of dollars per year BELIEVING that these things were true. However, we could not verify them. Isn’t this the equivalent of running a scam?

18. fofblogmoderator - June 3, 2009

#9 is newly moderated

19. elena - June 3, 2009


The little I’ve learnt is that cults can get away with everything without being held liable except money matters to the government which is the other cult that as long as it gets paid is willing to let anything happen.

It would be very good to have that explained in full detail by someone who knows the rules which as I was told are; if you are dumb enough to buy it, why shouldn’t you pay for it!

It’s a very interesting attitude from legal society today which condones no matter who rips who off as long as taxes get paid. On the other hand it does seem to bring the individual to a confrontation with personal responsibility and the need to stop depending on more powerful imaginary others to protect and defend one. But that still cannot stop there. A shift of values will necessarily change today’s conditions.

20. Vena - June 3, 2009

I agree with “I See Said The Blind Man” regarding these excessive personal posts. There are other forums for this type of communication, e.g. The Greater Fellowship or just personal emails. In my opinion, the value of this blog in exposing personal and legal wrongdoings is weakened when it is used as a form of therapy and constantly repeated personal issues, ad nauseum, by a few regulars. Not that these posts are not sincere and of value and interest but can we find another place for them or at least, for example, limit them to one a day per person? I’m sure I will get blasted for this but I hate to see the potential of this blog destroyed.


“Maybe volutarily limiting the more personal posts to help keep this blog foucused is a good idea.”

21. sallymcnally - June 3, 2009

#15: For members who have stayed so many years (some over 30 now) I would think it would take a substantial wake up call to erode ones outer shell and allow in the light of conscience. By now most have mastered the art of denial quite well.

22. itstwinetime - June 3, 2009


you are identified with being IN the fof,
(“it’s all just so, wunnerful, wunnerful!”)
you are identified with being OUT of the fof,
(“it’s all just so, terrible, terrible!”)

funny you all just don’t get it, yet.
what do you suppose it would take,
to actually wake up? hmmmmmmmm?

or, have you perfectly “mastered the art of denial?”

ps: please show us what YOU are made of, now,
and kill the messenger, ‘k?

23. Ames Gilbert - June 3, 2009

Dear fofblogmoderator,
Thanks for clarifying what happened. And, I greatly appreciate the work you do to maintain the blog.

Here are some points to consider about this blog.
It is run by WordPress software; this software is open source and community developed, just like Linux, and is free. The community of developers is wordwide. It would be very hard for any entity, such as the Fellowship of Friends, to attack such a community.
The blog itself was for the first years hosted on servers based in London, England; this was organized by the Sheikh. There is no reason to believe this has changed, unless the moderator made the changes himself. Likewise, it would be very hard for the Fellowship to attack the server company.

This brings us to content. Here is a quote from broadcastlaw(dot)com on the subject:

Avoiding Liability for Websites that Post User Generated Content
Website operators planning to allow visitors to post their own “user generated content” can, for the most part, take solace that they will not be held liable for third-party posts if they meet certain criteria. The Communications Decency Act provides protection against liability for torts (including libel, slander and other forms of defamation) for website operators for third-party content posted on their site. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act provides protection against copyright infringement claims for the user-generated content, if the site owner observes certain “safe harbor” provisions set out by the law. The requirements for protection under these statutes, and other cautions for website operators, are set out in detail in our firm’s First Amendment Law Letter, which can be found here.
As detailed in the Law Letter, the Communications Decency Act has been very broadly applied to protect the operator of a website from liability for the content of the postings of third parties. Only recently have courts begun to chip away at those protections, finding liability in cases where it appeared that the website operator in effect asked for the offending content – as in a case where the owner of a roommate-finder site gave users a questionnaire that specifically prompted them to indicate a racial preference for a roommate – something which offends the Fair Housing Act. However, as set forth in the Law Letter, absent such a specific prompt for offending information, the protections afforded by this statute still appear quite broad.
The protections against Copyright infringement liability contained in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act actually impose very specific obligations on the site operator before it qualifies for the safe harbor immunity. The site owner must register with the Copyright Office, provide the name of a specific person on staff to receive complaints of copyright violations (and keep that name up to date), adopt terms of use for its site that deals with how the site will deal with repeat infringers, have no actual knowledge of infringement and promptly remove offending material if properly notified by a copyright holder that it has been posted on the site (“the notice and take-down” provision). As with the Communications Decency Act, the website operator should also do nothing to encourage the posting of infringing material.
… end of quote

So, that takes care of the liability of the website operator, who is as I said, in England and rather unlikely to be subject to U.S. law.

Since the moderator chose not to contest the ‘takedown notice’, there can be no further action on this particular comment.

I did not make a copy of the comment that quotes the letter from David Springfield/David Lubbers (I’ve been copying and archiving the blog pages as time permits, but only after they have been completed—‘just in case’), but I just now I found a copy very easily. And, Google apparently ‘backs up’ the entire contents of the majority of the web (sites with an active history) several times a day; how long they keep those contents, I haven’t heard. These archives are in the public domain as well; Google does not restrict access to any of these archives.
If there is any liability at all, it would seem to lie at the feet of the person who told the person who told the person who told Black Marker of the letter. I happen to know for a fact that the letter has been circulated extensively during the past. Just like the material I circulated at the time of my leaving, or my blog entries, it has ‘escaped’ and is now in the public domain. Daniel Ellsberg (upon whom be all praise and blessings) released the infamous ‘Pentagon Papers’, and the New York Times published it (would that they had the same courage nowadays!). The material was classified, though it should not have been; it was the right of every citizen to know how the government systematically lied. The evidence escaped. Daniel could have been sent to jail, but even the guvmint did not presume to try to put the information back in its cage.

A point has been raised, that this is confidential information between attorney and client. The letter itself categorically denies this. A central theme is that there is no client/attorney relationship, that all trust has broken down, and the lawyers were fired from the board. Further the letter states that there are consequences for illegal actions which David Springfield lists, and that this is a final goodbye. I should note here that it is illegal (though rarely enforced, obviously) for a lawyer to knowingly help hide illegal activities.

Here is something else to consider. There is can be no privilege or copyright protection for illegal actions (I copyrighted this dandy method for evading tax, your honor, and I demand that no one else be allowed to screw the IRS using my method…). On the contrary, we citizens have an obligation to expose criminal activity wherever we find it, or we can be accused of complicity in the crimes. The letter makes it quite clear that the Board of Directors of the Fellowship of Friends is complicit in these crimes, which are listed. We, the blog contributors and readers, know there have been as yet no legal consequences for the criminal activities of the Board of Directors and of the organization they are responsible for. We are obliged to continue shedding light on those activities.

Another point. David Springfield displays no remorse in the letter. As far as I know, he is still a member to this day. The letter advises the Fellowship of Friends to clean up its act, or there may be consequences. Sure, David regrets the illegal and hasty actions of the Board of Directors, but not from a moral point of view. He just doesn’t want to get caught, and is warning the Board that they might get caught.

Finally, if anyone out there really wants to publicize damaging information, there is Wikileaks. A subset of Wiki, this site was established to protect whistleblowers of all kinds, and is set up to defend the sources of the information against all comers, including our beloved guvmint. It is simply impossible to trace the sources of information, period. So, if you want to publish the Fellowship secret Burton accounts for the last thirty-nine years, or the minutes of illegal meetings of the Fellowship Board of Directors, put it on Wikileaks! Then tell us where to find it. We will all be grateful to you, be assured!

Note to Elena. I try to limit my entries to those when I have something new to say, and try not repeat myself too often. Nevertheless, I have over 230 pages of blog entries I keep in one enormous Word document.
Don’t you think that is sufficient? Pity the poor reader who has to wade through all my posts!

24. in2it - June 3, 2009

straw man
Function: noun
1 : a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument in this case) set up only to be easily confuted.


I don’t have any inside info, but I wouldn’t doubt it at all — especially after the revelations in the “copyrighted” document (what a joke) — that Ni___s actually hired the above to distract people and create a negative, argumentative atmosphere here. Even if there’s no basis for that, the result is the same. Things get nasty, we start veering away from substantial topics, and the blog becomes unpleasant to read.

(Hmm… Now, who does THAT benefit?)

It’s a good thing to shed light on Burton and the FOF. Remember: We learned within the cult that it’s NOT a good idea to shed light on Burton and the FOF.

Silence and submission are cult ideas.

25. in2it - June 3, 2009

… am referrring of course not to Ames’ post but to the negativity in the post directly above his.

26. Ames Gilbert - June 3, 2009

Itstwinetime (#74-23 or thereabouts),
‘In’ or ‘out’, it’s just a game, IMO.

You sound like you are identified with a) getting any kind of reaction–any will do, b) with ‘waking up’, and c) getting us to share your realization how important it is to ‘wake up’, whatever that might be.


27. in2it - June 3, 2009

9. I see said the blind man

“We hope, after all, that current members are given acces to a dfferent kind of opinon of the FOF happenings that allows them a more balanced view of the institution. Maybe voluntarily limiting the more personal posts to help keep this blog foucused is a good idea. If you have a pet, walk on a partitioned GF lawn where it can crap hygenically, is a good rule of thumb, not here where everybody has to avoid stepping in it.”

Nice commentary. Sound reasoning. Absolutely worth a try.

28. elena - June 4, 2009

Ames, your participation is good and valuable and so is most other people’s. Some seem to want professionals and certain kind of professionalism to lead the blog but I think it is all good and necessary. Some miss by the excesses, others by the lack of participation. Some have something that can be pruned, others something they are unwilling to allow to grow comfortable with their own limitations and boundaries. Most would like to keep the world in our own boundaries but it keeps running for freedom. As soon as it turns into anyone’s club, it’s time to run!

Basically Ames, one can say things and say things! We can ridicule each other or we can say hey Nigel, could you quiet down for a while, besides the wonderful things you sometimes bring the excesses you bring are getting so badly in my nerves that I feel like ridiculing you. At least that would be seeing both sides of the spectrum!

But if Nigel hadn’t written everything he has written and behaved the way he has behaved we wouldn’t have observed that the dark side of the world seems to be unperceived, unregistered, unchallenged and unresponded to for the most part. How can one develop one’s self if one doesn’t allow one’s will to acknowledge half of the world and deal with it?

We are no longer in the Fellowship of Friends. We are here, in this blog and what happens here is what is happening now. The Fellowship is one of the subjects of this blog but the people here is what matters, not the Fellowship.

We can pretend not to know each other or make fun and ridicule each other or be friendly only with friends but that speaks as much for the Fellowship as for our selves.

29. Jomo Piñata - June 4, 2009

1. Agree that wikileaks may be a good location to house controversial whistleblower documents.
2. If the 2007 letter is an original work of authorship (it is), and it’s fixed in a tangible medium of expression (it is), it’s protected by U.S. copyright law. The range of remedies available to a party whose work of authorship has been unlawfully infringed is limited if the work has not been registered with the Register of Copyrights at the Library of Congress. You think this letter was registered? Perhaps you’d like to buy my GM stock.
3. The letter which is the subject of controversy here is an unsworn out-of-court statement, i.e., it’s hearsay. It’s interesting, maybe, but not important.

30. Tatyana - June 4, 2009

Murky copyright laws… Does anybody know for sure what are they? Recently I was trying to find the answer for this question for my business (graphic design). Aparently, everything seems to be a copyright – all images and all written words. The ‘rule’ says “if the author did not give you a permission to use it – it is probably a copyright protected (does not need to be registered).
So… what do we do with the ‘facts’? (I mean what is the differense between stealing someone’s written words and showing them to the public?)…. and whom do I sue for using my email without a permission? (just kidding)

31. WhaleRider - June 4, 2009


“…what do you suppose it would take to actually wake up?”

The question is: what does it actually mean to “wake up”?

Are you referring to attaining some kind of mythical “fixed” state that somehow implausibly exists in a universe whose essence, as far as we (Royal) can tell, is based upon change? That’s inherently doubtful to me.

Or must a person continually “wake up” as Gurdjieff suggests, to the fact that they are “asleep” most of the time?

The latter sounds like a double bind to moi, an intractable “Gordian Knot” that the intellect attempts to resolve by severing the endless knot into two ends… (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_knot)…thus dividing the wholesomeness of the human psyche into a linear, two dimensional, dualistic form…with wakefulness at one end and sleep at the other.

If one remains, for the most part polarized, “asleep”, and untrusting of oneself, then of course one requires the doctrine of an externalized authority figure to determine for them what the nature of being “awake” is.

Evolution here is presented as setting to a neverending task with the help of a fourth way guru at spending one’s entire life resisting an invaluable side of their human nature…the trance state…the lower self…leaving the individual in an emotionally dependent, intellectually disempowered state? That’s not for me.

As most ex-followers have experienced, this method of so-called “evolution” is problematic and ripe for the process of corruption.

Or does a person one day actually “wake up” when they accept the fact that the yin and yang of their consciousness (and identity) naturally cycles or flows along a revolving continuum, with a little bit of consciousness in sleep and a little bit of sleep in consciousness?

You say, “please show us what YOU are made of?”

I don’t know about you, but this is what I am made of. The light and the dark and the grey inbetween.

And this is where I depart from Burtonistic, authoritarian and dualistic dogma of heaven and hell or the war on sleep, in or out.

IMO, it is only the little bit of light within the dark and the little bit of dark within the light that one can possibly gain mastery of; despite our best intentions, we (Royal) are essentially hardwired overall with a seemingly endless supply of both light and dark, of consciousness and unconsciousnes…and we (Royal) pretty much stay there.

I do cherish the “sly mans pill” of accepting oneself as one is: for me it is finding a synergy in containing a combination of both consciousness and unconsciousness, learning to develop myeself from what I am given in the present, independent of whatever changing circumstances I find myself in, my daily bread, and not motivated by what I’d hoped, wished, or dreamed to attain in some future life. To me, this displays spiritual virtuosity. The form of the Fellowship of Friends AKA Pathyway to Presence displays a cult organization.

I support the individual “wakeful-trance” state as the ultimate source of inspiration, insight and understanding, not the context or form one chooses to get there. There may be some truth in the assertion that eventually, all contexts, forms, and institutions become corrupt…as evidenced in that oh, so thoughtful letter.

Despite the evil reputation of lawyers, it is ironic that playing the role of being a good lawyer displayed more shining conscience than the role he continues to play (or has played) as a pimp in the Fellowship.

That’s certainly interesting to me.

32. fofblogmoderator - June 4, 2009

20 is newly moderated

33. Panoritsa - June 4, 2009

This week we have elections for the European Parliament here in Europe. I have enjoyed listening to the political parties, seeing people trying to make a point, sharing that feeling of being together.

My first time in years…The Fellowship with its pseudo non-attachment does not promote democracy. Not that politics and politicians are the best example. But that very simple human right to vote makes me feel more worthy than having being part of an oligarchy in the Cult.

There was no support of expression in any form. The fact that people awkwardly are snappiing either here or at the GF reminds me of how stupidly suppressed we were in the Cult. No will (since you were giving it up…), no constructive argumentation, no opinions (opinions were really BAD….).

It takes time to recover mates!

34. Yesri Baba - June 4, 2009

Look around your room. I am that.

35. Ames Gilbert - June 4, 2009

Jomo Piñata (#74-29 or thereabouts),
Of course, almost every word on this blog is hearsay, if the standard is that to be relevant or important the entries have to be sworn in a court of law.
I believe the letter, nevertheless, is important–if true. I think the FoF thinks it is important. They took the trouble to make the moderator take the comment down. And right now, my unsworn sources say there is a hunt going on for the leaker. The FoF has monitored and continues to monitor this blog. That takes up their time and resources.

I am not concerned about repercussions for me personally if I repost the letter from the Google archives, but I am concerned about our moderator. One of the advantages of having the Sheikh as a moderator was that he lived in England, not exactly beyond the reach of the Fellowship of Friends, but a lot harder to intimidate. So perhaps, dear Jomo, you’d care to enlighten us about ‘fair use’ as you understand it? And how do we protect the moderator?

36. elena - June 4, 2009

May I share the privacy of my dead? Or are even the dead too private to share? How many more obstacles will you put on sharing so that you don’t have to step on other’s stinking life? What stops you from simply jumping over the people you do not care for and try to move yourself along without them? Why can’t you offer what you’re so demanding?

To gratitude

Always home,
Always at home,
Always a room ready for our arrival,
The three of us: my brother and sister and I
and the swimming suit for the length of the holidays.

Big and warm and generous and beautiful
She still stands with her great smile and her firm voice
brooming the floors with water before six because she felt at ease without the dust in the sandy beach front of Cartagena and the plants and trees welcomed the shower.

And the food…
Always at home,
Always plenty
Always deliciously prepared coconut rice with raisins by Elena who was as skinny as she was fat, as black as she was white and who smoked cigarettes with the fire in her mouth while she spoke and worked and yelled at us for no matter what, but cared!

She’d gotten cancer when I was a child and had been cut up and lived with the tubes for the next forty years working each day from morn to dusk in a bakery that she’d begun at home for our delight and would still have time to check that we’d be out by nine and in by nine and ten and twelve and up when we arrived at five next day as we grew up or down!

It’s difficult to tell whether the violet dawns or the red sunsets were Cartagena’s or hers, or the Ocean was just an expression of her love or an objective reality at her door, nor know whether the walled city were the boundaries of her life or theirs for everything seemed to be under her domain greeting everyone as she passed and confirming a conversation they’d already had.

I was supposed to come and visit she’d made me promise and I had not called to avoid the claim but when we spoke last night before the surgery she embraced my soul with her voice and said good-bye.

The plane leaves at twelve; I am going to live my gratitude and bury my dead.

37. Tatyana - June 4, 2009

35 “So perhaps, dear Jomo, you’d care to enlighten us about ‘fair use’ as you understand it?”

Yes, I would like to know also how this law ‘works’. Let’s say I was on board of directors (I wasn’t) and personally received this letter. What if I left FOF – is it my right to share this document publically or do I have to keep a life-long silence?

I watched on Youtube an interesting film yesterday called “The men who killed Kennedy” How come this is still on Youtube with all this “copyright” secret recordings of the conversations, etc.? And one little letter can shut the whole blog?

BTW, post 11 still has it 🙂

Why does this letter makes someone so nervous? What is it say that exposes some vulnerabilities? What am I missing?

38. lauralupa - June 4, 2009

thank you Steve, screw you mole

“… Love, by the way, is not all hugs and backrubs. Primarily, I think, love is a prank. To borrow a theme I’m developing in my third novel: Love is a prank played on the ego by the spirit to teach the ego the one thing that it does not want to learn. In my own life, I’ve been scalded by love, and I’ve even been so tough boots as to believe that I needed to protect my heart. But as a result of my accidental contemplation of courage, I realized — or I remembered — that the heart is made of love, and love is indestructible, and only the cowardice of ego would presume that it requires protection. Actually, love is the only force capable of overcoming the ego, and so the ego would naturally like to avoid this prank, never having to learn to give up control. Courage is simply allowing this vulnerability, embracing the uncertainty, accepting that we may be hurt, yes, that it won’t always be easy, and that not only can we take it, but that we actually have no idea how much we can take. In this “Age of Uncertainty,” courage necessarily means being true to one’s heart, stepping towards a future uncertain rather than securing oneself to a predictable past. Courage is without caution, it is passion, it is a fleeing from security and into synchronicity. A flower growing through a crack in a rock, courage abandons the familiar and secure shell which protects us — and limits us — and dares us to emerge, to grow, and to trust that life will nurture us despite its challenges.
This expansion of consciousness is necessarily the reduction of ego, and is there anything more expansive than the feeling of love? It is not uncommon for lovers to recount the synchronicities of their meeting, to recognize a strangely inevitable magic in their rendezvous, and such magic is only the beginning, a dim glimmer of a spectacular sunrise, patient as we find our courage, tender as we surrender, daring us to give, to forgive, to reside more fully in our heart, to remember that we are never alone, and ultimately to realize that we are nothing if we are not servants to one another. It is love that erodes our ramparts, that relieves us of our armor, that tames the teeth protecting our trauma, and it is love that will heal us all the moment we have the courage to face the magic.
This is what I believe more than anything, and this is what gives me hope.
May you be ever overwhelmed by how many people you love.”

Tony Vigorito

39. Walter J. Tanner - June 4, 2009

Hey Moderator:

Fuggedaboudit! If a lawyer asks you to do something, do it. Jump through hoops to do it. Do everything the lawyer asks, and then explain to everyone on the blog what happened. The lawyer may try to “gag” you, that is, get you to not talk about the action, but that requires a court order. Try to get everything in writing, of course.


Do not fear, for the precedents have already been set: The Church of Scientology similarly tried to squelch blogs and websites by former members, claiming that Hubbard’s cribbed esoterica was “copyrighted” material.

Ames also noted that there are very good laws on the books to protect “whistleblowers,” especially in California. The letter mentions specific, suspected crimes and is a perfect example of a “whistleblower” document.

The FoF and Robert Burton have been spiritually defeated. We all had a part in this, and we deserve congratulations. This legal stuff, so say my contacts, is an attempt to throw up enough dirt to cover Robert’s escape to some foreign country. Anyone reading this with more or differing information, please email or call. Of course you will have full anonymity.

(415) 536-4018

40. James Mclemore - June 4, 2009

38. lauralupa

Thank you for that. Beautiful.

41. James Mclemore - June 4, 2009

37. Tatyana

“BTW, post 11 still has it”

The link is there, but the letter appears to be unavailable.

42. Tatyana - June 4, 2009

41. Yep, it’s gone.

43. Walter J. Tanner - June 4, 2009

As the Russians say:

“…..and what?”

If anybody wants the letter they’ll ask for it — I’m sure many of us have copies…


44. Josiane - June 5, 2009

I was reading the letter at #11 about 6 hours ago thinking that I should make a copy for myself to show my (still a member) husband. Now it’s no longer available. Anyone with a copy, please email it to josiane.lowry@gmail.com

45. Associated Press - June 5, 2009

The D@v!d Spr!ugf!eld, mentioned in the offending document, was, prior to studying for and becoming a lawyer (passing the California Bar Exam), the Maître d’ of the Academy (now Galleria Apollo?, or, whatever) for a few years. [maître d’: (short for maître d’hôtel, in the original French, literally ‘master of the hotel’)] That meant that he was the octave leader or manager of the staff that ran Robert’s public and private affairs in his residence and elsewhere. He was also responsible for managing the security (included firearm permits and training) and the motor pool in this scope. At the time he may have been known by a different last name. (Mentioned elsewhere on this blog.) (It was changed legally.) He was the predecessor to Epw@rp S¢hnlten, as Maître d’. This took place in the pre-1998 era – late 1980’s? to early/mid 1990’s – roughly through the time of the Troy/Richard fiasco, the Olivehurst Gospel Assembly, and the Ming furniture collection/museum. (There was also a period of time, during this time, that Robert could not reside in the Academy because a property tax exemption was being claimed for it being a museum. There was the seperate residence, called the Ming House, or something like that, owned by Et.n H.rr.s, member of the FoF board, and leased to FoF for this purpose. D@v!d’s scope possibly extended to that property and staff, too.) Therefore, he was intimately familiar with almost everything that would go on behind the scenes in the life of Robert Earl Burton and the Fellowship of Friends – not quite the same relationship as the private secretaries or the legal counsel. It was understandable that he eventually resigned from that position and went to work for Abr.h.m G.ldm.n, Associates; the then legal counsel. His exalted position of confidence dictated that he not be cast about in an adverse fashion, as so many burned-out people from the Fellowship land up. So, the content of that letter is, likewise, understandable and an aspect of the experiences he had had, the oath he had taken (as lawyer), the responsibilities as he saw them, and the conscience that may have arose in the circumstances. (Either that or a queeny flare up.)

D@v!d was a great person to work with, as long as you were on his good side. The Dutch are very diplomatic people and have a keen sense of justice and fairness. (It’s no coincidence that the World Court is in Holland located in the Hague.) But, also, certain circumstances can lead to passive-aggressive behaviours. You would not want to get on the wrong side of certain type persons. Relationship examples have been cited on this blog by the near and dear. And, abuse is a way of life in the Fellowship. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

To be a lawyer, often it requires having a thick skin and often certain strong arm tactics in rather measured implementations. This can be very frustrating.

Now, has this letter surfaced before? The author of this post has checked and double checked and found that it may have been alluded to in the past as in: Abr.h.m G.ldm.n, Associates, was removed as counsel for FoF; but this letter in complete detail is new. Could D@v!d have posted it? That’s possible, but unlikely. He has close family members in FoF and is unlikely to leave FoF. So, you go figure. More likely it might be the work of some disenfranchised current or former FoF board member or other staff that had access to the document. But one never knows. What goes around, comes around. Could have been Robert Earl Burton himself, using it to get rid of more disloyal marginal hangers-on.

Hey, everyone should know that lawyers are well aware of the idea, and use of, ‘you can not unring a bell.’ That’s where a lawyer damn well knows that they can not ask certain questions (in court for instance), that the opposition will object, that the judge will sustain the objection; but meanwhile the question gets put out there and even the witness may give an answer before the objection, sustainment, and the strike from the record, and the jury instruction from the judge to disregard the disallowed sequence of events (read: testimony), but the bell has been rung, which can lead to the ever so small amount of doubt with just one juror. Well D@v!d, the bell has been rung. And, as it appears in the It’s a Wonderful Life film:

FoF Blog page 4/306
Frank Capra Says:
March 29th, 2007 at 1:44 pm

To: Arjuna Vishnu (a.k.a. You know who.),

From my film, ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’
Like Mr. Potter, you are warped, frustrated old men.

By now you should know that you cannot unring a bell.

Teacher says,
every time a bell rings
an angel gets his wings.

Remember, no man is a failure if he has friends.

Thanks for the wings,

Love Clarence.
Clarence P. Oddbody
Angel Second Class

46. fofblogmoderator - June 5, 2009

44 in newly moderated

47. veramente - June 5, 2009

I hope that the person who posted “the letter” on the internet has a nice picture of it and that a copy of will come out again at the proper time.
I guess someone was a bit careless with their documents.


48. dragon - June 5, 2009

38. lauralupa

your link, better than ever!

49. Kid Shelleen - June 5, 2009


Thanks for the passage. Tony’s a great writer. Check out “Just A Couple Days.”

50. Panoritsa - June 5, 2009

The letter to “All Board Members” is threatening. The FOF aristocracy does not want current members to read it and then re-read it. Because the more you look at it, the more you realize what a bad dream your life has become.

Because as soon as you read the letter, you know that the author does not lie. You know that he has done his best to conceal the FOF corruption but his “professional responsibilities” urge him to warn the Board Members.

Remember, we are still talking about a school of love, where you are supposed to “awaken” to the unbearable truth that your teacher is a fake.

Good luck with picking up the pieces.

Remember, there is hope after the FOF. Actually, that’s exactly the definition of hope. Post-FOF…

51. Josiane - June 5, 2009

Okay, three people have already sent me the letter. Thanks a bunch!

52. elena - June 5, 2009

It was important to come before everything is changed after the living take hold of what the dead owned. What were plants when I was a child have become trees but the furniture and the paintings on the wall have been in the same place for over twenty years.

It’s as if I could take only so many dead before I had become more a part of the dead than the living and she had finally opened the way towards the option for whenever it comes. At least in this upside down and backwards world people are able to see the light side of the dead when they were alive making them much better company than the living who can only see the dark side of the living as if they were already dead. Nothing like wanting to die because the living no longer inspire one, fixed in the details of what one is allowed to do and say in the Public Square because they still want to condition how one dresses and behaves as if we had not already paid enough time in prison. Why don’t you publish the list of the conditions that the ideal post has to have to fit your tastes? Or better even, why don’t you write the ideal post and tell us what it is that you are craving with the heart of your soul, if there is still such a thing in your body?

If we’re not all any longer fixed in the poverties of the Fellowship and can’t find even a letter worth spending on it then it’s not good enough for the blog? The professional complainers who only come here to say no with a little voice, middle size voice and big loud voice if they can find enough accomplices to hold it as if they were paying us to entertain them when the problem is that they have long lost the ability to entertain themselves finding buts in everyone and everything because their own source is as dry as a desert but survives putting others down.

If the blog is not meant to be therapeutic, why don’t you tell me the alternatives. Vena? Are we supposed to sit here armed with guns hitting the Fellowship with each bullet- word because finding someone to hit is better than developing somewhere to survive? Does everyone have to have the same military uniform and direct her guns at Robert for you and blind man and so many more of you to think the blog is worth its time, hitting on a dead horse that you are unwilling to bury? For the problem is that if you were at least willing to bury it I would be happy to give it still a few more kicks but it’s not that you are willing to stand outside the gates of the Fellowship and say no, or walk down the streets of Marysville and say No to the Fellowship, or get together and sign a letter to the governor and the president asking for a scrupulous look into the Fellowship, no, you just want us to scream loud that the horse is dead, that the horse stinks and that there are still fifteen hundred people riding on it while you sit back and complain that it is not good enough if we include Shakespeare’s poetry or the fact that we are desperate to communicate but don’t know how while too many hide the real facts that they’ve known for long, for that letter from David was in the hands of many a blogger over two years ago. What is good enough for You?

Who of you answered Zannos’ post saying she was ready to go public?

One thing that is worth understanding is that third line is only the expression of a mature first line. What becomes Public is what an individual has matured enough to make public and a martyr is no more than someone who matured before his time. S/He gets eaten and beaten first! So does a criminal. He or she matures “evil” enough to make it public.

I would ask you Blind man and Vena and the rest of you to at least have enough courage to call people by their names when you want to send out one of those formulas on how the blog would fit your tastes. If you don’t enjoy Nigel’s or my or anybody else’s excesses, say, hey Elena, hey Nigel, I appreciate this and think this other aspect runs into excesses. Then we can begin to talk and not just sit on preconceived ideas and subjective tastes and mass behavior. You can tell us what you understand by private that you seem to be so clear about not wanting to have here. What exactly do you mean by private? Are you referring to Nigel’s innumerable accounts of his workshops and bipolarity or my exhibitionism with my husband? What stops you from speaking clearly? What are you afraid of? Because if you appreciate nothing from Nigel or from me, then it would be wonderful to be clear about that too because we can then sit back and enjoy the new cult and dogma of the selected few.

I differ from you completely and think that the value of the blog is precisely it’s therapeuticness. Every confrontation with other people is therapeutic. One on one an individual is rarely objective enough to hold the whole truth but together there is enough common sense to keep a balance until most of the participants are sick enough to forbid freedom. But the value of the therapy for me today is that it is possible to deal with the dark side of each other without hurting our self or selves. I think it is much more damaging to ridicule Nigel with the Nigel Harris Price Show than to say, Nigel you are overdoing it here and there and further away and I think it is because of this. Take it or leave it. And think it is equally absurd when people like you send out this blog formulas or dogma criticizing what is without offering anything better.

If anyone here dies tomorrow I will acknowledge that death as if you were a friend who I lived with for some time. There is no one here who I would like to hurt. After two years of hitting each other you are people that matter to me. Nigel matters immensely to me because he has shared his heart and soul and even if his heart and soul is flodded with enough pills to drown a hero the heart and soul that he’s offered are more than plenty to me even if he calls me a liar because he didn’t like my telling him for the third time that I think he can do with half the pills. If you stand him next to Ames who doesn’t need the heart or the soul to stand and still sails freely, it makes me wonder why an Ames would need to ridicule a Nigel. Why those of you who have enough of your selves don’t have enough heart and soul to love? You have no idea how badly it stinks to me when you pretend to live the show just like Girard and Robert, exposing your positions on the Fellowship here while hiding your selves behind the professionalism of your education. Life is not only the Fellowship nor am I willing to sit and look back for ever. It is only an excuse to reference our selves against something we don’t want to repeat but seem to be repeating even without wanting.

And this is not meant destructively although I am well sick of it. No one seems to be running away from the battle so we might as well start dialoguing if we are not willing to kill each other or die but I am well tempted to leave the blog if your conditions prevail; perhaps you’re right, this is not a place to live but another Fellowship outlet for decadence and death.

It is not the bullets what can kill the Fellowship, it’s the fact that there is food and better alternatives elsewhere what will draw people away from cults or at least not seduce them to join one. It’s societies with a life of their own that will not prompt people to look for one in cults.

53. brucelevy - June 5, 2009

52. elena

“I would ask you Blind man and Vena and the rest of you to at least have enough courage to call people by their names when you want to send out one of those formulas on how the blog would fit your tastes. If you don’t enjoy Nigel’s or my or anybody else’s excesses, say, hey Elena, hey Nigel, I appreciate this and think this other aspect runs into excesses. Then we can begin to talk and not just sit on preconceived ideas and subjective tastes and mass behavior.”

Quite a few people over the years here have called you out for your rants and dogma, both gently and forcefully, and almost inevitably one then sits back and has to watch you publicly go batshit crazy with an even more out there rant. Why would anyone here who’s been here for a while want to continue that shit? Many of us (obviously myself included) have gone off the deep end occasionally. But there’s no one here who has been treated with more deference than you ELENA. Mostly because it’s more trouble than it’s worth.

“And this is not meant destructively although I am well sick of it.”

Of course it’s destructive, and has been consistantly.

“but I am well tempted to leave the blog if your conditions prevail; perhaps you’re right, this is not a place to live but another Fellowship outlet for decadence and death.”

And you’ve slung that specific threat and bull shit more times than I can count. If you’re going to leave, leave, but enough with the threat, it’s absurd and pathetic.

54. Panoritsa - June 5, 2009

I heard about this Blog about two years ago. Someone in their right mind sent an email to some Fellowship members with a link.

I had to gather a lot of courage to click on the link and start reading. I did not like many of the things I read and I did not like the swearing (then…).

At a certain moment I contacted a friend who had left in the early 90s. I started re-connecting with reality.

There are people in the Fellowship who have no idea. However strange this sounds to many of us who are catching up with their lives, there are people who are afraid to face what is really going in in Oregon House.

Some members constantly are bad mouthing the Blog to the extend that even the mere word Blog is a sin to utter. Members believe that what is documented about Robert’s sexual appetite and abuse is a fable, only invented by ex-members to pull a great man down.

Robert Burton is their hero and you cannot touch him. He has their wings and if he falls, they will go down with him.

Can somebody send that letter to a few current members? It is written by one of them.

Why do I care? Good rhetorical question. I have better things to do this evening. But I needed to write this post first.

55. fofblogmoderator - June 5, 2009

When it comes to the blog, I much prefer to have an empty page than have extraneous conversations and back-and-forth bickering.

The blog was started to expose the FOF as being a questionable institution that did not deliver what it said it could. I want to hear as much as possible about that.

When I first read the blog I immediately called my Center Director and told her that we need to do some “damage control”. She did not know about the blog and I thought we needed to let students know the blog was a bad place to spend time. For me though it was too late. For the first time in 13 years a real voice was questioning the validity of the Fellowship Of Friends (HOW DARE HE) and it made me start thinking differently about the FOF. I went back and forth internally for about 3 months before I quit being a member (i knew I could always rejoin if I wanted).

Did I lose influence c, and the school, and all hope of evolving and creating my astral body? I’m not concerned with an answer.

If we’ve said all there is to say, then this blog is OVER. At the same time, there has been (IMO) a lot of useful back and forth. If you go back to page 73 post 147 from Yesri, you’ll see an example of what I’m referring to. There are actually countless pages and posts with useful ideas, links to web sites, music videos and letters from lawyers that make this place a rich and valuable environment.

I remember when I moved to Oregon House. It was during the period when Robert Burton stopped leading meetings (shouldn’t we have received a reduction in teaching payments?). Wednesday’s meeting was considered the more informal of the two weekly meetings and no matter what the topic was, inevitably 2 or 3 people would get up and start telling anecdotes (not angles) about their drive to Marysville…… Ni*k Spau*lding would get up and tell his little joke and there would be a few nice angles of thought given, but without the leader of the meeting keeping things on topic you could see that the meeting would have gone all over the place. This is all taking place 25 plus years into the school’s existence. There was supposedly a very high level of being in the school and especially at Apollo (btw, that fake town name shit is hilarious; Renaissance, Apollo, etc..) yet people couldn’t help themselves, they love telling stories about themselves. So if it happens here every so often I guess it’s not a big deal. I definitely am not trying to be the “leader” here. If things get way out of hand I try to take some kind of action, but I prefer to let this blog try to run itself. I think the blog has done a great job overall of staying on point and at the same time allowing many interesting and useful threads to develop.

My point to all this is (if there is one), I would like anyone who is thinking about joining the Fellowship Of Friends to read this blog first. I would like all current members to read this blog on a daily basis. If you are firmly rooted in the FOF then it won’t bother you a bit and you can marvel at how people who leave the FOF become so identified and how lucky you are that you’ve held all your verifications and remain completely committed to the life long effort of “being present”.

56. elena - June 5, 2009

Thank you Bruce, but if you think that you’ve nailed me down with that and got it all straighten out and clear you’re as far as the moon to the Sun. Ranting is not my only talent and the fact that you are not willing to acknowledge any other doesn’t disqualify me. It simply shows me what you’re willing to perceive and the tone you enjoy.

You think that when I say I am tempted to leave I am threatening you or anyone here. Can’t you just take it that it isn’t inspiring to watch people demanding what they are not willing to give, sitting on a throne criticizing a Nigel or me? That it’s valid to question the mentality here as much as it was valid to question it in the Fellowship? Do you really think I would have the naivete to think it’s a threat to you or the many who’ve wanted me out for so long?

Bruce: “But there’s no one here who has been treated with more deference than you ELENA. Mostly because it’s more trouble than it’s worth.”

Deference? You know what Bruce, the only thing that allows me to know that I am saying something worthwhile is that no one here argues against it because when anything is slightly weak not only one but three or five attack it. It’s been like that since the beginning and I am learning what you respond to and don’t. It’s been quite a while since you can’t attack what is being said even if you relish on attacking who says it. What makes me wonder is why it’s on attacks that the response depends rather than a dialogue. I guess that would need thinking and crystallized positions don’t want to think.

There are a hundred more issues in that post you answered to than the personal issues you are referring to but if you don’t want to address them, hear them or consider them it won’t make me regret having written it. The questions weren’t only for you. Should I be surprised if answers are avoided because it is so much easier to be content with your personal attack?

And no, it isn’t destructive no matter how challenging it is. The energy is not there for destruction.

57. Jomo Piñata - June 6, 2009


where you are supposed to “awaken” to the unbearable truth that your teacher is a fake.

Wait, wait, I’ve heard this somewhere before. Ah, yes:


58. David B. - June 6, 2009

55 fofblogmoderator

I appreciate what you’re doing. It’s a thankless task, I guess, I know it’s hard to please everybody, but I think you’re doing just fine.

I haven’t written anything in a long time but I do like to just to check in every now and then and see what’s going on.

I would like to hear more about the stuff that’s going on in the FOF right now rather than all the therapy shit, but I don’t want anyone to be censored except in maybe the most extreme instances (ie. Greg).

The Blog is certainly not as interesting to me as it was a two years ago or so, but I still think it’s a valuable tool for exposing the wrongdoing in the FOF, as is evidenced by the emergence of the D. Springfield letter. I hope we’ll see more of that kind of thing in the future.

59. Another Name - June 6, 2009

It is almost freudianic that David’s letter appeared…it might wash somethings clean……..time will tell.

I am for opening the so called “secrets” . Secrets causes dis-ease yes, you got it disease….

So let it all out, many secrets are not that secret anyway.

So again, shout, shout let it all out, these are the things we can do without, come on I am talking to you come on…

tears for fears

Happy June.

60. fofblogmoderator - June 6, 2009

58 is newly moderated

61. lauralupa - June 6, 2009

A new perspective for those who still feel bad about being “in imagination”


62. elena - June 6, 2009

61 Lauralupa

Isn’t something like a state of daydreaming looked for when the psychoanalyst tries to place the patient in a mood of talking freely or freely associating? Wouldn’t that open a channel for a lot of “unconscious” things going on in the person? Interesting that in mind control environments like the Fellowship such activity is judged as negative putting people in a position of having to try to avoid it making them more self conscious than conscious. Consciously accessing the free association condition is probably close to what the system describes as third state.

63. dragon - June 6, 2009

51. Josiane

I would like to read that mysterious letter because it could throw light on the procedures of the FOF.

In fairness to all the other readers here I am obliged to repeat:

I was never a member of the FOF.

I look forward to your E-mail


Thank you:


64. peter mac - June 6, 2009

i have found the excercise of “sleeping on it” literally that is quite productive in problem solving. (related to lauralupa 61).

65. will coyote - June 6, 2009

It is a long time i don’t read the blog. I come here today to ask what was happenened to Dayly Cardiac. I am not here to looking for gossip, but to discover if comunication beetween people may succeed.( I have a lot of Faith!) I had exit from another cult and often write on a forum about my ex school. It is seldom that some inside in the cult come to confront one self with an outsider. And also very few people that are gone out come in the forum to share. I look at me like a searcher of truth, not metafisical truth, but truth that you can eat, breath, see. I have found Sheik blog a very useful tool to looking for and in the same time i feel that there is a life, a story behind every Nick Name. I too should like to find in it only the things that i need , the same way i do with life. But Life and blog are subject to the same laws so for our Lucky, we can find the things that we don’t want find too.
I wrote a little in italian blog too and i find how it is diffucult to understand each other. What i want underline is the search- of- answer-thing but when you meet people that has the anwer yet, or also the answer that searching- is- the- mistake… i take a time…and the urge push me again somewhere.
There is love here. Not counscios love, may be , but Passional love that very quickly turn in opposite.
But still is love, the strong force in the world, the force that is moving the universes and bind us to his law.

66. ton - June 6, 2009

laura, good to read your voice again…. you’ve drawn so much from the ‘reality sandwich’ site…. thanks for continuing to link the readers here to such a pertinent resource! here’s another site you might enjoy if you’re not already familiar… CMN, check out the listings of their videos and interviews:


67. jack - June 6, 2009

Hi folks
just checking if this will show as I posted a loooong one which didnt.
It may be under moderation.

68. jack - June 6, 2009

Perhaps if I break it up a little.
As it doesnt say it is being moderated like it used to.
Hi Folks
First please excuse the length of time this has taken and if it doesn’t meet all of your expectations, but you wont be alone….
I gave up on getting the corrupted punctuation altered, I think twenty letters or more to the support staff at the petition site without any joy is enough.
So below is the final form I sent it out in after manually altering the punctuation and removing the letters while putting a reference to them instead.
This last was done because the length it had with them was enough to put anyone of reading it… especially before lunch!
Dear Sir/ Madam
Please excuse if the punctuation in this letter is a little strange.
Time being of the essence I have decided to send it as it is instead of waiting for
the website it was displayed on to correct it.
It is still collecting signatures but here it has been undersigned by one hundred
and fifty one people.
We hope you can find the time to investigate it a little further.

69. jack - June 6, 2009

The Fellowship of Friends Investigation Petition.

To: all appropriate regulating agencies and elected officials of the State of
California and the United States of America. World news media, and all world
citizens concerned with abuses of religious power.

“We are past members of the Fellowship of Friends, an organization operating as a
“church” in the rural Sierra Nevada foothills of California. It is dominated and
controlled by a man named Robert Earl Burton. Our petition asks for an official
investigation into the practices and character of his organization. The charges are
documented by personal accounts declared pursuant to California law and under
penalty of perjury.

We estimate there are about 15,000 former members worldwide, with current membership
estimated at 1600. The long-term influence of this organization can result in the
exploitation of its members, the consequences of which are often poor physical
and/or mental health, financial ruin and moral devastation. These damaging results
are documented.

Robert Burton calls himself a spiritual teacher and compares himself to Jesus,
Buddha and Moses. He uses charisma, persuasion, psychological manipulation and
coercion to drive large “donations” of labor, money and assets to support the
“church”. It is documented that these donations are used largely to fund his
extravagant lifestyle, outlandish projects and for sexual predation of his

Most all “donations” are mandatory and Mr. Burton enjoys the protection of the
organization’s tax-exempt status under the laws of California.

Over the last 37 years, the property belonging to the Fellowship of Friends,
including the vineyard and commercial winery producing Renaissance wines, has in
large part been developed and maintained by the unpaid labor of foreign nationals in
this country working on the basis of religious visas. This fact has been
intentionally hidden from authorities. Workers are required to donate back to the
church the largest portion of their salary, leaving an average monthly living wage
of about $460.00. These facts are documented.

Fellowship centers around the world also fund the church through mandatory
donations. It is documented that these monies have been routinely smuggled into this
country under the direction of Robert Burton and his minions.

Mr. Burton has abused his role as a spiritual teacher to prey upon young men for
sex. His methods are documented. There have been several lawsuits on record against
Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends. A 1996 lawsuit alleging the rape of a
minor child by the group’s leader was settled out of court for an undisclosed but
significant amount of money in order to avoid future scrutiny and litigation. (See
Yuba County Superior Court Case No. 060209, 04/29/96). Most of the lawsuits on
record have been settled financially, out of court.

These offenses have been largely concealed from current followers and the methods of
concealment are documented.

There is a website being developed by former members to provide an organized
overview of the organization: http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com. For
on-going discussion among mostly former members, see

We ask all who share concern for these conditions to sign this petition and ask for
an official investigation into these affairs.”


70. jack - June 6, 2009

Perhaps there are too many web sites in the next chunk.
I will try to edit them out as the site isnt posting it.

71. jack - June 6, 2009

for some reason it wont post the last fifty signatures.
I have sent it by e-mail to all the e-mail addresses supplied by x-ray.
If anyone wants to send hard copies they are welcome to as it would be kind of impractical for me given my current circumstances and location.
I would like to thank everyone involved in giving it its final shape and all of you who signed it.
I often find myself considering the outcome of my actions in relation to how they will affect other peoples lives and whether I should or shouldn’t do something, but while sending this around I had no doubts that it was the right thing to do.
If anyone has any other suggestions as to where to send it please send me the addresses and I will.
Also feel free to cut and paste and send it to whoever you want if you wish.
all the best

72. fofblogmoderator - June 6, 2009

71 is newly moderated

73. sharon - June 6, 2009

Hi Jack – were not all those email addresses supposed to be confidential, just for identification purposes for the petition site? What was the purpose of posting them publically here?

74. jack - June 6, 2009

Hi Sharon
Because i am stupid!
Also in my defense I have been trying to do this under extenuating circumstances.
Hi Moderator,
Can you please remove posts seventy and seventy one.
or if their numbers change then the two posts which have only names in them.
Now i will just go and stick my head in the sand.

75. James Mclemore - June 6, 2009


Do not be too hard on yourself. You have done a lot of work and I feel sure you have the gratitude of a lot of people for what you have done.

Best wishes to you

76. sharon - June 7, 2009

Hold your head up high, Jack, you are doing fine, and what are friends for but to help us when we trip up, as we all do?

77. X-ray - June 7, 2009

73. sharon – June 6, 2009
‘What was the purpose of posting them publically here?’

So any one who want, could also send it out.

78. brucelevy - June 7, 2009

79. oolalajp - June 7, 2009

i would love to receive a copy of the said letter. can anyone email it to me? much thanks.

amerikan dot male at hotmail dot com

80. Yesri Baba - June 7, 2009

Oh great! Now the one retard left in the galaxy that doesn’t know how to click on a link is going to see them.

81. Yesri Baba - June 7, 2009

Oops. I guess we found the one retard left in the galaxy who doesn’t know how to read.

82. Renald - June 7, 2009

My blog song, the toned down version.

Open your eyes, see this parade of wounded.
Is this why we were born, this utter failure, this history of failure, this lose-lose proposition?

It was reported that the Bobber stood mesmerized in front of the gone bad compost pile in Shakespeare Meadow, He read the sign of things to come. That day he knew and that day he fucked up because he decided to keep the information quiet. Mums the word!
Talk about omens!

Millions of maggots, alive and desperately squirming, sensing their future in the open sun, in the light of day.

Where is the pile now? Not in Shakespeare Meadow betweem the Goldman Palace and the Praetoneum. The names change but the story is always the same. The pile has dried up under the same sun, open your eyes and see. The maggots have escaped. Open your eyes and see. Like ants they will try again miraculously popping out of a ham sandwich left too long at the Lincoln Lodge kitchen.

When the stench gets bad enough, some may climb up on the barbed wire topped fence where the air is slightly better.

Life is meant to be enjoyable for all, not just for the select few with sticky smelly crusty cum caked on to their inner circle chins, the creme de la creme.

The pyramid has been inverted and the ponzi scheme is teetering.
G. said it best when he said that the world sees things 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Sooner or later the shit has to hit the fan. Everyone knows that and some live closer to the fan than others. Thus the petition is slow to attract fans (no pun intended).

The paint on the ceiling can be recovered with a false layer (liar coat), but it is too late. Some have seen his art from a horizontal position and still remember. Now I know why El Gordo rang amuck. The bell cannot be unrung.. It`s incessant ringing was neither the funeral nor the fire song that it was supposed to announce. It was a warning bell.
I suppose now that I spilt the beans he will melt it down and have it shaped into a private joke, with members as the butt.

Yes, I once raised my fingertip Leonardo-wise and silenced the bell but not again. Ring, Blog Bell, Ring ! I raise my glass to you. Ring on!


83. Mikey - June 7, 2009

“A lawyer’s viewpoint depends upon which party gives him the most money; he then represents their side. Truth turns into falsehood, and lies into truth! Every lawyer is like that.” Harjiwan Lal, Esq.

84. dragon - June 7, 2009

83. Mikey

Did you try to express that:

I have come to give a new understanding of spiritual value and truth to everyone…..

85. Renald - June 7, 2009

Someone sent me a gift this morning which I listened to with fresh ears. I am not sure how to forward it but here goes…..Enjoy!

Some parts really fit it well to the spirit of The Blog.

86. Mikey - June 7, 2009

Wow Dragon, you guessed it! Actually my intent was to say (or quote) something only slightly relevant that would easily be ignored. Cosmic consciousness rules!

87. Renald - June 7, 2009

re 85 Sorry that did not work. I will work on it and try again when I get it figured out. It must be easy enough. Cheers!

88. Renald - June 7, 2009

re 85+87

It seems that the only difference here is that this one has a yO at the end. There must be a trick. It is a utube video. I will keep trying.


89. Renald - June 7, 2009

Great, I hope it surprised you as much as it did me. I thought I had heard it a hundred times but I had actually never really heard it.
That is how a lot of misunderstanding happens, by letting a foregone conclusion take over. Maybe today I learned how to listen to another level. Cheers!

90. dragon - June 7, 2009

85 Renald

Some parts really fit it well to the spirit of The Blog.


Why do you stay in the Blog-prison Renald when the door is so wide open???


91. Tatyana - June 7, 2009

Renald, what is the difference between “my way” and the Ego?

92. ton - June 7, 2009

renald, someday it will come to you….

93. peter - June 7, 2009

After 15 day’s of intense living – publishing two new books and watching 84 episodes of The Sopranos, day’s with little sleep. I’am back where I was just before I joint the FOF 23 years ago when I was 23 years old. Again listening to ‘Coney Island Baby’ from Lou Reed. Alone in my midnight hour – close to God and far out of reach from all guru’s, groups and ‘schools’. The kingdom is in myself and in yourself.

94. Renald - June 8, 2009

re 90 Dragon
First off I do not consider the blog a prison. I have learned to cope with the huge negative bulk mostly by turning the other cheek. To me that means to re-focus on what is beautiful and valuable. Another thing I have noticed is that I do not hold a grudge any more.
Maybe our five year old daughter has reminded us of the great ability it is possible to develop by becoming as little children.

Dragon, you are right though when you point out this possibility. It is very simple how it can happen, it just does not apply to me at this time. When I realized that each and every thought can become habitual due to the feeling it engenders, a matter of interplay and creation of neurons and receptors, every emotional response to my self and to others, I became free of many addictions and there are hundreds some weaker and some stronger, That fact that our thoughts and therefore our beliefs become addictions actually is very important here on the blog and for those still in the fellowship and every other cult. It then becomes clear just what is the withdrawal effect and that clarity allows freedom and knowledge and joy and love to flow freely. Prison? Been there, done that, just not now.

Cheers to All !

95. Renald - June 8, 2009

91 Tatyana
The difference is the reputation of the Ego as fostered by the dumbest man in at least California if not the entire USA. Sorry, I not longer buy into that crap and am much much happier for it. It does not mean that a person is dumb or stupid because he has fallen for the con job of a dumb person. It just means that he was ripe for the plucking, just ripe to fall into a trap because he was risking. That happens all the time, just look at the divorce rates. That does not make risking wrong or weak or undesireable.

Staying in the trap when the person knows he is in one simply because of the fear of risking IS weak to say the least. Knowingly helping to hurt others while hiding under a skirt is cowardly. There is too much to gain and regain. If this applies to whoever reads this, just go for it. Life is supposed to be wonderful. Hit that open road!


96. Renald - June 8, 2009

re 02 Ton
“ Renald, someday it will come to you…“

Was this meant in reference to my “Open your eyes, see this parade of wounded.
Is this why we were born, this utter failure, this history of failure, this lose-lose proposition? “

Because if it was, the question was not a philosophical one and was aimed at the idea of being in the fellowship of friends.

I see now that it was badly written and not clear and should have at least had a mention of the fof in the title. Sorry. Yet the rest of it is clear.

If on the other hand you meant something to do with your video, then please forgive me. I am in the same room as my sleeping daughter and do not want to risk waking her. The click clack of my typing is enough. I will catch it tomorrow. Thanks.


97. Panoritsa - June 8, 2009

Right Peter

Here’s to a Perfect Day!

98. Wouldnt You Like To Know - June 8, 2009

82. Renald

Good song!

88. Renald:

Frank Sinatra: My Way

Good song, again!

One ancient philosopher said:
‘The way to do is to be.’
Lao Tzu, The Tao Te Ching

Another, not so ancient, philosopher said:
‘The way to be is to do.’
Jean-Paul Sartre, French Existentialist

Even William Shakespeare said:
‘To be or not to be.’

Rumi said:
‘Let the beauty of what you love be what you do’

But Frank Sinatra said:
‘Do Be Do Be Do’
Strangers In The Night

That’s why he’s a wiseguy.

(1. wiseguy: A mob guy, a mafioso.
2. Wiseguy: A wiseguy, a highly ranked individual in a crime family.
(By definition 2, that makes REB a wiseguy.)):-))))

99. Wouldnt You Like To Know - June 8, 2009

Frank Sinatra also sang:
Fly Me To The Moon:

100. dragon - June 8, 2009

94. Renald

Your five year old daughter is the door and with her, you and your wife will find joy.

Maybe become the thoughts and beliefs of some people here addictions.

It is hard to find a new balance after those traumatic cult experiences.

Nevertheless it is good hear that you have no grudge anymore.

Wish you and your family joy and freedom…….

101. WhaleRider - June 9, 2009

FBI Director Defends Use of Informants in Cults

LOS ANGELES – FBI Director Robert Mueller on Monday defended the agency’s use of informants within U.S. cults, despite complaints from cult organizations that innocent faithful followers are being targeted instead of possible pathological narcissists, tax evaders, or sexual predators.

Mueller’s comments came after the disclosure earlier this year that the FBI planted a spy in an undisclosed Northern California cult studying esoteric Christianity (code named, “Truth Octave”) to investigate their many requests for religious visas apparently used to procure young, vulnerable, Eastern European men to satsify the spiritual-sexual appetite of the elderly cult leader.

Similar alarm followed just days after a Michigan Muslim organization studying esoteric Islam asked the Justice Department to investigate complaints that the FBI is asking the faithful to spy on its cult leaders and followers, allegedly to be fair and balanced.

“We don’t investigate places, we investigate individuals and their dirty laundry,” Mueller said during a brief meeting with reporters in Los Angeles.

“To the extent that there may be evidence or other information of criminal wrongdoings, then we will … undertake those investigations,” Mueller added. “We will continue to do it…even if it takes us into the cult leader’s bedroom.”

He called general relations with U.S. based Christian-materialistic cults “very good,” but acknowledged some disagreements and concerns without providing specifics.

The Council of Authoritarian Hierarchical Organizations Promoting Mind-Numbing Dualism sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder after some fundamentalist fringe churches and other cult groups reported members of the apathetic community around them have been asked to monitor people coming to cults, the donations they make, the extravagant statues they erect, and the look on their faces when they leave. The FBI’s Detroit office has denied the allegations.

FBI agents and prosecutors say spying on cults is one of the best weapons to uncover lurking pathological narcissists, sexual predators, and tax evaders or other threats to our children, illegal aliens, or national security, but it has recently encountered a politically and legally thorny issue specifically with some fourth way cults who see themselves as unjustly monitored and morally above the law.

“The FBI needs to do what it needs to do, certainly, just like our unchallengeable leaders must do who they need to do,” one cult follower said, but claims the agency is “trying to incite and entrap innocent, vulnerable, law-abiding people who just happen to be displaying sheep-like behavior anyway. But we understand. It’s for their own good.”

Mueller also said that there are no signs in the FBI’s priorities in this new 44th administration and era of full disclosure and openness. “The unsuspecting public must be told the truth about cults, and only the truth will set the cult followers free.”

“I would not expect that we would in any way take our foot off the pedal of addressing counterterrorism, fraud, tax evasion, and child molestation,” he said, “and believe me, we listen to the voices of dissent among those who have left those cults.”

“My expectation is that we’ll see an uptick in terms of resources devoted toward our domestic criminal responsibilities, but we will not relax our responsibilities when it comes to counterterrorism or counterintelligence…” he said, “or counterintuition and complete lack of intelligence, in the case of cult followers,” he added.

102. Kevan - June 9, 2009

A lot of you sound like you still have that esoteric student thing going on.

Gurdjieff wrote a book and told you how he conned people for a living. Maybe that was a clue?

There is nothing to do. Everything is as it should be. Anyone who tells you they know what you need to do is trying to scam you because they cannot possibly know more than you do.

I left the Fellowship in 1977. I left the “work” in 1981. There is no work, their is only life.

103. fofblogmoderator - June 9, 2009

102 is newly moderated

104. WhaleRider - June 9, 2009


To: All Members
From: *#!%&~@$$$
Re: The Truth Octave

For your own personal safety and continued membership, if a recently joined Fellowship member approaches you to be part of something called “The Truth Octave”, please stop thoughts, have no further contact with them, quickly do 3-5 Sequences, and provide their name to your nearest Center Director.

“The Truth Octave” is not a real octave in the Fellowship of Friends, although Robert sweetly reminds those on duty tonight, the Homosexual Octave is.

105. brucelevy - June 9, 2009

102. Kevan

“There is nothing to do. Everything is as it should be. Anyone who tells you they know what you need to do is trying to scam you because they cannot possibly know more than you do.

I left the Fellowship in 1977. I left the “work” in 1981. There is no work, their is only life.”

Good thing you’re not telling us what we need to do.

106. dragon - June 9, 2009
107. Bares Reposting - June 10, 2009

Deadly Cults:
The Crimes of True Believers
Robert L. Snow

Other Cults
Page 121

“It’s all very stimulating stuff in the beginning . . . ,” said a former member
of the Fellowship of Friends in a 1996 Los Angeles Times article. “But there’s
no doubt it’s a cult. Our lives were totally controlled.”(1)

Is this man talking about a cult formed around a wild-eyed guru who
preaches that all members should embrace poverty and the simple life? Is
he talking about a cult that rejects all worldly pleasures, and whose members
spend their days praying, chanting, or meditating?

Hardly. According to reports in several California newspapers, the Fellowship
of Friends is a pleasure- and consumer-oriented cult. Founded in
1971 by former schoolteacher Robert Burton, the Fellowship of Friends
believes that true spiritual awakening can only come through experiencing
the finest things life has to offer: fine food, fine wine, great art, great writers,
great music. In his book Self Remembering, Burton stresses “the education and
discipline of the emotions, the importance of living in the present, a love of
beauty, and an understanding of its capacity to create higher awareness.”(2)

True to his beliefs, Burton, who lived out of his car before founding the
Fellowship of Friends, has built a lavish mansion, which he named
Apollo, in the style of a French chateau on a 1,300-acre estate in the northern
California Sierra foothills. There, among terraced hills supporting a
vineyard that produces award-winning wines, the members of the Fellowship
of Friends can come and study under a man whom they believe
to be both spiritually advanced and a prophet.

Burton, who claims he is guided by 44 angels, including Benjamin
Franklin, Jesus, and Plato, is believed by members of the Fellowship of
Friends to be near godlike and also privy to information from “higher
sources.” As a result of his claimed direct contact with these angels and

108. Bares Reposting - June 10, 2009

Deadly Cults:
The Crimes of True Believers
Robert L. Snow
Page 122
higher sources, Burton predicted that an earthquake in 1998 would swallow
up all of California, except for Apollo. He has also predicted that a
nuclear holocaust will destroy most of world in 2006, but again spare
Apollo, which will then become the center of the movement to reestablish
civilization in the post-holocaust world.

While his prediction of a California-swallowing earthquake, of course,
didn’t come true, this didn’t humble Burton. He carries on as though he’d
never made a mistake. Like most cult leaders, Burton either ignores or
attempts to rationalize his mistakes, while also attempting to control every
aspect of his followers’ lives. Within the Fellowship of Friends, this control
includes regulating the members’ sex lives and diets, ordering them to
abstain from any form of negativity, and even directing them to abstain
from the use of certain common words, such as I or thing. Burton has also
forbidden members to dye their hair, have mixed-breed pets, ride bicycles,
or smoke. Smoking, incidentally, is so strenuously outlawed that Burton
has instructed cult members to sniff when greeting each other to catch renegades.
Burton fined one couple $1,500 each for violating the no-smoking
rule. One former member of the Fellowship of Friends claimed that the cult
leaders, besides barring him from having sex with his girlfriend, also
ordered him to urinate only on the side of the toilet so as to make less noise.
While most Fellowship of Friends members have jobs and homes, Burton
discourages members from mingling or socializing with people outside the
Fellowship, including family, whom Burton sees as “spiritually dead.”

The leadership of the Fellowship of Friends doesn’t see these constraints
as brainwashing, however. “The Fellowship does not engage in
brainwashing,” said Girard Haven, a member of the group’s board of
directors. “We may have a charismatic leader and strong feelings about
higher forces and our own spirituality, but we know what we are doing.
We are not doing it blindly.”(3)

Unlike many cults, though, the Fellowship of Friends doesn’t recruit
from the masses, but instead recruits mainly from groups of well-educated
and well-heeled individuals. New recruits are often located after
Fellowship of Friends members go to bookstores and plant Fellowship of
Friends’ bookmarks in selected metaphysical books that reflect the beliefs
of the cult. Prospective members who respond to the telephone number
on the bookmark are invited to attend lavish dinners at expensive homes.
Only after being appraised by Fellowship of Friends members can
prospective recruits be invited to join the cult, whose membership
includes many doctors, lawyers, artists, and musicians.

Recruiting well-heeled members certainly paid off. In the late 1990s, the
Fellowship of Friends had 65 centers around the world (in late 2003, their
Web site, which is translated into 10 languages, states that they now have
only 30 centers) and employed approximately 500 people. The group’s
overall worth in the late 1990s was estimated at $26 million, while Burton’s
annual salary was at least $250,000. Many of the Fellowship of

109. Bares Reposting - June 10, 2009

Deadly Cults:
The Crimes of True Believers
Robert L. Snow
Page 123
Friends’ employees work at the cult’s winery, which is located on their
property in northern California. According to recent news articles, the Fellowship
of Friends produces 25,000 cases of wine a year, which is reported
to be of high quality.

Along with the winery, the Fellowship of Friends has its own collections
of fine art and rare literature, as well as its own opera company, orchestra,
theater troupe, and museum. In addition, Burton has decorated the mansion
at Apollo with expensive antiques and paintings. One of Burton’s
favorite sayings is, “Beauty creates its likeness in those who pursue it.”(4)

Because of all these expensive possessions, belonging to the Fellowship
of Friends is naturally very costly. The cult requires members to tithe 10
percent of their incomes, while wealthy members pay much more, in special
assessments, to enable the Fellowship of Friends to purchase sculpture,
paintings, rare books, antiques, and other items that will “lift the
spirituality” of the cult members. The annual income of the Fellowship of
Friends in the mid-1990s exceeded $5 million.

However, all is not rosy for the Fellowship of Friends. In recent years,
large numbers of its members have been leaving, causing a serious cash
flow problem. The trouble began for the Fellowship of Friends in 1995
when a cult member sent an open letter to the membership accusing Burton
of sexually seducing him. He said Burton brainwashes members into a
state of “absolute submission,” allowing him to feed a “voracious appetite
for sexual perversion.”(5) Following this disclosure, other male members
came forward with similar accusations, including the cult’s former financial
officer, who said he felt pressured to join Burton’s male harem.

“They don’t see it coming, and when it comes, they don’t know what’s
happened,” said Charles Randall about Burton’s aggressive homosexual
advances toward Fellowship of Friends members.(6)

Another male member of the cult who also claimed Burton aggressively
pressured him into having sex said, ”I had never had a homosexual
encounter before this. But he [Burton] told me it was the wish of
C-influence (the group’s term for higher forces, or gods) that I have sex
with him.”(7) At all-male dinners hosted by Burton, members say he has
been known to boast that “one hundred boys would not be enough [for
his sexual appetite].”(8)

To these charges, Burton’s attorney has responded, “We don’t think a
[sexual] relationship between a leader and a member of the congregation
is abusive in and of itself.”(9) However, two lawsuits filed by former Fellowship
of Friends members claiming sexual abuse have been settled out
of court.

Former Fellowship of Friends officials who have left the cult also aren’t
kind in their evaluation of Burton and his organization. “The Fellowship
is a dictatorship, a predatory dictatorship,” said Thomas Easley, an artist
and former leader who left the cult after a homosexual relationship with
Burton. “I should know. I was a leader.”(10)

110. Bares Reposting - June 10, 2009

Deadly Cults:
The Crimes of True Believers
Robert L. Snow
Page 124
Former Fellowship of Friends financial officer Charles Randall said, “I
thought it was the one true way, but as it turns out, it was just a cult.”(11)

The point to the preceding anecdote is that a cult can be formed around
almost any belief or philosophy. Also, this anecdote shows that, to succeed,
a cult doesn’t have to be aimed at the uneducated, the emotionally challenged,
or the poor. As shown by both the Fellowship of Friends and the
Solar Temple (discussed in the previous chapter), cults can also attract
well-educated, wealthy, and seemingly mentally competent people. All
that’s needed is a charismatic leader who followers believe has some type
of special insight, some type of special knowledge unknown to the rest of
the world, or some type of special direct pipeline to God or ascended
beings. To attract followers, the cult leader then offers to share this information
or knowledge with cult members. This belief in the leader’s gift
quickly becomes a strong magnet that pulls people in because gaining this
insight or knowledge from the cult leader, members believe, will make
them part of an elite group who are a step above regular human beings.

CHAPTER 11 Notes:
1. Jenifer Warren, “Trouble Taints a Cerebral Sanctuary,” Los Angeles Times
(November 4, 1996), p. A1.
2. Katherine Seligman, “Yuba Church or Cult?” San Francisco Examiner (October
12, 1997), p. 1A.
3. Ibid.
4. Warren, “Trouble Taints a Cerebral Sanctuary.”
5. Ibid.
6. Gordon Smith, “Wave of Resignations and Expulsions Following Open
Letter,” San Diego Union-Tribune (March 16, 1995), p. 1.
7. Gordon Smith, “In the Name of Religion,” San Diego Union-Tribune (March
15, 1995), p. 1.
8. Seligman, “Yuba Church or Cult?”
9. Smith, “Wave of Resignations and Expulsions Following Open Letter.”
10. Seligman, “Yuba Church or Cult?”
11. Smith, “In the Name of Religion.”

111. Bares Reposting - June 10, 2009

Deadly Cults page one hundred and twenty-three seems to be moderated.

112. dragon - June 10, 2009

Thanks a lot Bares Reposting for those pages.

Is there any problem with the copyright law?

I think those pages are a well balanced description of the FOF.

( even if it is a repetition)

113. Panoritsa - June 10, 2009

It is of course absolutely ridiculous that you have here 74 parts of written words trying to illustrate the weirdness of the Fellowship of Friends and from all the information presented, there has been only one post “deleted” due to copyright laws…

The readers of this Blog may assume that the rest is here to stay and the current members who “monitor” this Forum cannot find anything else that contradicts the practices of the “religious order”, or “religious teacher”…

So, the reader may assume that the Fellowship of Friends is indeed one of the Deadly Cults, and all the absurd stories about it are true?

114. Kid Shelleen - June 10, 2009
115. brucelevy - June 10, 2009

114. Kid Shelleen

It is interesting. It seems like all these Guru/Douche bags got their enlightenment from the Guru Correspondence school. Their text book, How to Start and Maintain a Cult, is chock full of little “truths” to envelope in one’s own particular fluff. The only prerequisite to getting your diploma is to be clinically diagnosed with either NPD, or be clinically declared a sociopath.

The trappings are different, but the bull shit and sociopathy are exactly the same, whether hetero or homosexual. These fuckers should be put away.

116. James Mclemore - June 10, 2009

114. Kid Shelleen

Yes. Interesting, and all so familiar. I do think it is those catchy little “truths”, coming from an appearance of confidence that can suck people in. Whether they are out to intentionally fool others, or are just acting out of the delusions that came from fooling themselves, makes little difference.

I think the “gazing heroically into space” is especially effective and one we have seen somewhere before.

117. elena - June 11, 2009

There is more gratitude in tickling laughter than in a blible of words. Life was not written in books but in people.

Story after story we recover our time and find to our surprise that there was life on both sides. Sharing the lightness after so many years of sharinglessness, laughlessness, presencelessnes. I wonder at what time poetry run by the child, where did my giggles dry up?

Enchanted I dive in the pleasure of her skin, the heart below full blown invisible to the eye but hard and still ungratified remain without longing. Love of the flesh and fleshlessly loving as if the heart had burnt in the fire of this conversation and I remained intact.

…So much desire and yet… fire moulds without burning.

118. wa nige - June 11, 2009

declaration…..going awol/remote…..on blog and gf…..

Anybody really interested in AWAKENING…..

take London Paddington to Exeter St Davids…..

then cell/mobile…..07973 222 346

“So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, but live according to the flesh-
for if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back on fear, but you have receives a spirit of adoption. when we cry, “Abba! Father!”
it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with
Christ – if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified
with him.

Romans 8 (12-17)

Universe in hub
So many girls
Glamorous at work
And men worn
Teenage tee-shirts
Declaring themselves
How I attract
And reverberate

nhp 2009

119. dragon - June 11, 2009

113. Panoritsa

Is there any problem with the copyright law?

was a mischievous question for the “monitorers” (if they are really present).

And as long as the FOF has the possibility to catch younger and older people it is no deadly cult, it is a tempting offer…

His members are devoted to beauty, mystery, the search….
They feel obliged to each other and they float for a long time somewhere.

“Deadly” comes into being from slight misgivings. It may be an effect of this Blog, to evoke critical thinking by the current members of the FOF.

This process of doubt is dangerous and for some individuals it may be deadly.

If you respond to mystery, luxury, beauty…… there may be variety…..
not only the FOF.

120. elena - June 11, 2009

Fire molds without burning, not moulds

121. fofblogmoderator - June 11, 2009

118 is newly moderated

122. ton - June 14, 2009

…this may be a bit off topic but the issues here are germane to everyday airbreathing existence as most of us experience it…. and one could draw certain comparisons with the general cult topic discussed here, such as the mentality, the ‘mythos’ and ‘ethos’ governing behaviors of a culture…. in this case a culture of excess, greed, vanity and an attitude of entitlement for a few at the expense and cost of so many.

123. brucelevy - June 14, 2009

124. ton - June 14, 2009

“…that’s just the way it’s always been done around here…”


125. Mikey - June 14, 2009

June 12, 2009 Chico, CA
We are here in remembrance of our father, Fred Hotes, to honor his life and to lay his remains in his grave next to our mother. Though the fragile link to his body has been snapped, the connection to our hearts remains unbroken.
As the Poet of Poets has said:
“Whether you are a King or a beggar,
It is all here today and gone tomorrow.
Life is easy, like a joke,
But it becomes so difficult
If not taken this way.
For one whose heart is still alive does not die”

Everyone’s time must come and Dad was very fortunate to live a long life in times of great changes, with his full share of good and bad and happiness and sorrow.
Let us try from now onward to seek God in our hearts and so abide together in God’s love for All.

In memoriam Frederick L. Hotes, July 23, 1918 – June 8, 2009
F. Michael, Son of

126. brucelevy - June 14, 2009
127. sallymcnally - June 15, 2009

Just one of those amazing videos that comes along sometimes. Please watch:

128. xeeena - June 15, 2009

Sally–thanks for that.

For those who are curious about E. J. Gold, here is an article about his newest undertaking that I found in today’s paper (The Union). http://www.theunion.com/article/20090614/NEWS/906139998/1066&ParentProfile=1053

129. dragon - June 15, 2009

127. sallymcnally

really touching, that’s beauty with a soul! Thanks for that!!!

130. elena - June 15, 2009

Thanks for the posts.

Ton, the idea of ideas as energy with life of its own could relate to Steiner’s presentation of energies adopting different manifestations in different realms. To give just one example, the flower in the plant kingdom which in the animal kingdom manifests as the butterfly and in man as memory.

When negative emotions became “vivid” enough, it was clear how contagious they could be and work on myself seemed to depend a lot on how much I could hold them without spreading them out which is also well depicted in Bruce’s Five Monkeys. Thanks for those and for the Alex Horn text. It’s good to take a look into that aspect of Robert Burton’s fall.

Thank you Sally for the beautiful video of the Omo People.

Just got back to Medellín. Life laughs at me. It laughs and laughs at my innocence and ignorance. I am glad someone finds it that funny while bewildered! Such a familiar stranger, such a strange same old self falling like an apple by the pull of gravity! Fortunately being able to stand up again a lot quicker than ever.

Met again with one young friend who’s been taking ayahuasca and received much profit from it. The centers for taking it are legal. Shamans and doctors working around it with people’s issues. He mentioned the experience had taken away a back ache he’d suffered for years although he’s only around twenty six. He seemed more mature and focused than I’d ever seen him. It was good to see the institution for such things working so openly.

131. elena - June 16, 2009

At what moment in life is there no turning back?

As I watch some of the old people it’s evident that they neither want nor can turn back and on the contrary, establish the road to an increasing downfall on the fixed premises.
Were this true, who could say that a tree grown crooked is less alive than a straight tree?
Aren’t there all forms in nature and still they are “natural”? So what is the unnatural that needs to be conceived of?

Where does crime begin?
When one man kills and rapes another? Or when a group of people organize themselves to rape and help others die? But isn’t that the institutionalized System today and the accepted motto of all cults? “Die first, then awaken! in the meantime we’ll take care of your work force! Surrender your money and sex. Death is complete surrrenderance” and after a while one doesn’t know the difference between masturbating or being raped, making love or getting fucked up!

Aren’t cults the extroversion of the inner dynamics of the System in which you are already socially dead and therefore working in slavery is the accepted condition? Slavery not only in terms of the economic condition in which you can only get certain jobs according to your already sentenced education but in terms of what you can aspire to, as if the soul didn’t live on aspiration. Who says there have been darker ages than this one? Of course, that depends on the side one is looking at and the degree of yellow press that one is capable of putting into it… after all, the “world” is only purely rotten if one already is, for we see the world from our selves and usually express our own condition in that appreciation.

I haven’t seen the blog stats for a while but it seems people are running out like bees with smoke. Even I often find that one more word is too much, that there is nothing else to say or hear but then remember that being here is not about talking but about sitting with others even when it stings, ever so glad to find more than a social club of fixed behaviour. Nevertheless, my pleasure in writing is not a condition for keeping the blog open; I could write pages on my own, you’ve already trained me to not expect a response but you can close it whenever you feel like it and the effort will run into another venue, hopefully glass.

132. ton - June 16, 2009
133. peter mac - June 17, 2009

sallymcnally……………..the video was a treat

134. sallymcnally - June 17, 2009

If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.”

Henry David Thoreau

135. elena - June 17, 2009

I came across that text when I was after the question of how cults violate human rights, civil rights and walked across the desert to find out that such rights today are considered “out of date” in the United States. Such rights are the essence of the Declaration of Human Rights which have no meaning in the USA and although they may be accepted by other nations they have little power in practice.

In the text you present the question is interesting in as much as allowing such mathematical laws to govern our lives is only another way of saying allowing objective laws to govern our lives. That will be possible when we become objective about our selves but in the present condition it is inconceivable even to the author of that text.

Didn’t you ever have glimpses of what it would take? When I was very young I looked at it and said to myself, I’m not ready for this!
I was about thirteen and workbooks came across my hands and I knew it wasn’t time to read them. I’m fifty now and think this lifetime won’t be enough but there are moments in which it is wonderful to be alive and connected. I might be batshit crazy as Bruce says, but I’ve got more love than the whole lot of ya put together! At least the delicacy of saying a name doesn’t escape me! Have fun! Gotta run!

136. WhaleRider - June 17, 2009

After a long pause,

like at the end of meditation,

I prefer my first impulse to be an expression of gratitude.

Thank you to all who make the blog what it is…indeed, a rich and lively experience.

I also greatly appreciate being able to freely give here without being asked…to share what I have suffered and have gained…and take a stand…in a self-validating way and in a forum without leaders.

In all my affairs, I ‘ought’ to give what I can; take what I need and leave the rest behind for others.

When the blog goes silent, part of my reactive mind goes silent, too, like when I get off work, which is a great time for strolling in my colorful neighborhood taking in some visual art and music, just like sally’s video clip about the Omo People, (and I swear, I have seen people looking like that walking in the streets where I live…) or I step into a cafe and read a thought provoking article, like ton’s. Great timing on both. Let’s enrich each other whenever we get the chance.

If the lights go out for a period time and the blog gets meditative, yes, the room is dark, I can’t hear anybody breathing, and until somebody else posts something, does it mean nobody is there any more or will ever be there again?

Can I still feel you in this silence (as opposed to having the sleaze ball Burton feel you up)? Does it mean that in this blog universe to post is to live as opposed to Burton’s universe in which to live is to suck? (BTW, suns put out, moons suck.)

In such situations of silence I usually become more self-reflective.

Gee, looking inward I am noticing that without any Burton inanities to bounce off of…without any FOF propagandists or Fourth Way Talibans around to denounce…part of me is thrown back at myself, and what do I see next to that blinking cursor of wordless emptiness…ykes!…is it a sign of the blog’s death or merely the projection of my own eventual death? Is it sign of someone else’s apathy or my own in some way?

In this hiccup of blog silence I ask myself again…who am I? Am I the emptiness I feel or the peace I feel from having emptied myself, or a conscious synergy of both?

…and what is my life like without jihad, without rising up and struggling against the forces that seek to divide and corrupt me?

To live and survive is to struggle against something. I can accept that. The question is: whose cause am I struggling for?

When I am divided against myself, I am subject to the dictates of others and the form and limits they set for me, which may not be entirely in the interest of my personal growth.

To be self-contained and liberated from the control of others necessitates that my struggle becomes making the continual effort to trust myself and believe in the validity of my personal experience both as an individual and as a member of humanity. That includes taking a stand, showing up for myself, and setting my own limits and boundaries.

Just as laughter arises out of the simultaneous experience of the positive and the negative, when I can accept myself as a whole person, I am happier more of the time than not.

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak for myself. Thanks again.

137. elena - June 18, 2009


If the conscious takes away the human it is no better than Robert’s Fellowship.

138. Ellen - June 18, 2009

Thanks for the beautiful images of the Omo people. Here’s another video I discovered today for us all to enjoy …

139. elena - June 18, 2009

Everything is perfect, yes, perfectly perfect even though people are not what we wanted to be but what we managed to become.
What tree is not beautiful? There are a few but those few are insignificant to the whole and people in their great horror are still horribly beautiful!
We cannot grow into the soil of the Earth because it’s not in the Earth that our spirit can grow. We root horizontally from the heart into the heart of the other as we tumble around the scent of their body convinced of the freedom of those movements until we can’t move a step beyond that scent that’s tied us to their heart and meet loneliness as the other side of desire.

The vertigo shocks me with the mere roce de piel, de pelos de niño, de textura de angel, de pluma, de piel… de durazno, de mink, de mujer, (the English language unfortunately does not have a soft enough name for skin or hairs of the skin, how could you ever rub instead or rozar, where the r and the z make the appropriate sound of roce that childlike hairs of the face feel when they are touched by another? or understand the texture of angels, feathers, peach, mink or woman? a whole dimension of tenderness that is alien in the North shore) shocks me once and again as if I were being electrocuted on the chair and nobody could see the vertigo beneath the skin while I remain still but wet. I no longer beg. Not as I did as a youth but bare the torture more like a child and let go like a man or a woman; who knows who I am. And then beyond a name or a body although there is a name and a body, dam it, unworthy of love, sick to the bones in the marrow of our history, I walk away like a scar without wound.

Who would want to be a man without skin or a woman without “it”, and not a womb turned inside out walking freely in daylight?
Walking freely in daylight because there is nothing worth hiding that hasn’t already rotten in the dark, even though millions still walk with the tumours in the pocket of their suits convinced that they can hide their stiff penis behind the tie. Stiff, not hard. Like the straight suit jackets adapted to the bare less wombs of stale women who gave birth to orphans before they died.

I am not one who carries the dead in the coffins I did not bury too young to go to the funerals. I carry them in the light of day. I pick up the puzzles of her body in the pieces of gestures that other women drop, place them in the altar of my soul and pray while women run after me trying to recover what I’ve stolen from them, insulting me. I no longer beg but I begged for the whole of the nine lifetimes in just this one and they will let me free without further begging.

There is more miracle in time than in life for there was more life in the beginning, doing and doing without being done but now that there is less life than time hardly anything needs to be done to get done. We turn inside out over life, open like a flower and die like one. I do not envy the child or the youth. Try not to die young. Life, like wine, tastes better with time.

140. elena - June 18, 2009

As we drive down the road with the excuse of an errand, at eighty four, my godfather tells me;
“My wife has asked me to not keep secrets with you from her but I must tell you a secret that I cannot tell her. If anyone asked me what I have lived for I would tell them, to listen to Mozart, Beethoven and to have met you!”

It was worth coming home for!

141. Panoritsa - June 18, 2009

Choose an identity:


142. WhaleRider - June 18, 2009

“If the conscious takes away the human it is no better than Robert’s Fellowship.”

True. My point is that by consciously accepting my unavoidable unconsciousness instead of degrading or denying it, I feel more human and connected with others.

I think what takes away the human in the pursuit of spiritual perfection is the inappropriate application of scale.

When the scale is too large, our individuality is compromised and we run the risk of losing touch with our humanity as Burton and his followers have.

Your very personal post is a case in point. Your individual experience is unique to you and in some respects, also applies to everyone…then there is the problem of our habit of unconsciously projecting upon others and the world what we fail to see in ourselves. In a depressed mood, the world seems like a depressing place and vice versa.

Did you laugh at ellen’s youtube link? I did. I laughed toward the end when the last guy got on the train, sat at the back, and everyone started laughing out loud again but him. I got the impression that he might have felt everyone was laughing at him, which probably would have just added to his depressed mood instead of elevating it and is a great example of how personal we can take the actions of others when it has nothing to do with us.

143. WhaleRider - June 18, 2009

We take the actions of others personally when the scale we apply to ourselves is too small.

On a large scale we are part of a vast whole and on a small scale we are the center of our own universe. Both are true. This forms the basis for the dualism of self-centeredness and selflessness.

144. Tatyana - June 18, 2009

“You know you’ve grown up the first time you are able to laugh at yourself.” (from an old New Yorker)

I felt sorry for the guy too. But hey – everyone felt the same at the beginning. Because yes, he was laughing at them. (should be given the laughing exercise! what an unbalanced machine!) The boring, uninspired mundane faces of people taking themselves too seriously. Oh, gawd… so funny…

145. passerby - June 18, 2009

Ten Warning Signs of a Potentially Unsafe Group or Leader:

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be “good enough“.
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

146. elena - June 18, 2009


Facts are
facts are facts…

It’s good to be here!
Take it or leave it, it’s free anyway!

I enjoyed the video but no, it didn’t make me laugh. If I’d been there perhaps it would have. I’ve laughed quite a bit more lately and it feels so very good, almost as good as when I cry.

I don’t understand the need for so many turns in your post to me and the one before that. If I care for you I can say things to you even if they are hard to hear. If I don’t care I don’t try to address you. If you care for me, there is no need for indirections that undermine me. We do that a lot here. We take a little bit of the whole and pretend to destroy the whole of the person. Have you noticed that? When I write, don’t you think it’s for you? Well it is! The most relevant things happen even when one doesn’t notice them.

Haven’t we come a long way Whalerider? Aren’t we after all still sitting here without pretending to split? That alone is enough for me to be here joyously. It’s good to hear from you, know you are there, thinking, living, trying to figure your self out.

For others, God knows what the blog is but for me, it’s the Public Square: a free ride into each other! Nothing to hide, nothing to be afraid of and everything to look at. People only hide from their imaginary evil.

Take it or leave it, it’s free anyway… a gift!

147. elena - June 19, 2009

Actually, it’s better to take it and leave it at the same time!

148. WhaleRider - June 19, 2009

I assure you, my intent is to support you in your complete liberation from the cult to the best of my abilities.

Afterall, here we still are, you and I…two brave voices among many. We have come a long way.

Yes, it’s a public square; yes, it’s freedom of speech; you can take it or leave it, or better yet, as you say, “take it and leave it at the same time!”

That “either or” duality is a killer, isn’t it!

Yes, in many ways we are very different (thankfully, as in being a man and a woman) and in other ways we might be quite similar.

I can certainly sense your passion for life in your writings, some of your joy, rapture, and I can also sense your anger and pain. That makes you quite human in my book, and in being human that makes us both equal and alike. We both share the common interest of survival, and I am quite certain we also both share the desire to protect our children.

Is it possible that my blog voice may sound critical and harsh to you because I primarily write in this particular public forum from my intellect (“facts, facts, facts”) which from the FOF’s emotionally centered perspective seems cold and inhuman?

Correct me if I’m wrong, that’s what I have been “getting” from you lately, that somehow you feel I don’t express myself in a style that befits someone “in touch with their humanity” as you might put it, that somehow my satire was created by my “lower self”, serving only to feed the lower selves of others? Is that what I am hearing?

Well, I can also assure you, I am a most humane, reasonable person, much more so since I left the Fellowship 24 years ago.

It warms me that you are laughing more these days. Lately, so have I. That’s healthy. Crying is healthy, too.

149. fofblogmoderator - June 19, 2009

145 is newly moderated

150. elena - June 19, 2009

Hi Whalerider,


The part about your lower self doesn’t fit me. I don’t think I judge you as much as I judge the piece, or at least I try not to. There’s great and poor satire and likewise with all other art forms. When there are many of us, someone amongst us has the ability to sense that one of us is becoming repetitive, vicious and that is not only important to me, it’s wonderful! It hurts to be exposed but it’s wonderful to get rid of the viciousness that I hadn’t been able to spot. The more I risk the more I learn.

What I find of value is that you participate no matter how many “mistakes” you make because I quickly forget the mistakes, including mine and enjoy the person. We’ve measured each other and here we are, one human with another in the Public Square. It’s sunny, you are dancing your song and I mine, they are different and there is pleasure in their difference as much as in their commonality.

The Fellowship has been a great excuse to communicate our differences and things in common but I still have so many other things to share here. It is important for me to put them out there and receive the feed back so that I can look at myself with relativity and stand firm where I think it’s worth it.

It’s interesting that you mention your satire because your satire was of little interest to me so I stopped reading the last ones, which is rare in me for I read almost everything. But if you enjoy writing them and others reading them after telling you what I think, I won’t try to stop you from writing more for a while, then I might take a deeper look and tell you again what I think!! which probably won’t be pleasant if I find something questionable.

But isn’t that what a dialogue is about? That we can question each other and dig deeper on our selves? Challenge each other’s paradigms and still walk along another stretch?

When I hear you speak it is clear that we are still so far from even hearing each other that the impulse to speak louder and scream if necessary arouses but at the same time the feeling that you are not about to run away afraid that someone will burn your bottom is comforting.

My intent is not quite to support the liberation from the cult but to live. Fuck the cult! We already invested too much time on it and welcome anyone who still needs to kick it, lick it or stick with it. If we need a cult as an excuse to communicate, long live the Cult!! Yuk! no, no, fuck the cult and let’s continue battling if that’s the only communication worth our being. The cult is just another reference point of the sickness in our times, another form of poverty that has hardly any true significance in the wider spectrum. Surviving the cult is not repeating its forms but developing new forms in which crime is not the hallmark of our interaction. Freedom from the conditioning of authoritarian structures implies a freedom to be each our own authority and submit to others not because they are in a more powerful position but because they are one’s peers, because one trusts their judgement and because one is as able to blow the hell out of whoever pretends to impose themselves on one’s self through different forms of power. Blow the hell out of whoever, in a legitimate forum in which we are willing to respect each other’s life and right to disagree and participate, nevertheless. The most difficult truth that comes with time is that everyone was right according to his conditionings but “right” was only what succeeded to reach a more humane equilibrium.

151. ton - June 19, 2009

145 passerby
“When abuses are publicly exposed, the leader either denies or justifies the behaviors by saying that ‘enemies of the truth’ or ‘the forces of evil’ are trying to subvert his true message. Core members of the group have a huge vested interest in believing him, as their identity is wrapped up in believing in his righteousness. Those who begin to doubt him at first become confused and depressed, and later feel betrayed and angry. The ways people deny and justify are similar: Since supposedly no one who is not enlightened can truly understand the motives of one who is, any criticism can be discounted as a limited perspective. Also, any behavior on the part of the guru, no matter how base, can be imputed to be some secret teaching or message that needs deciphering.

By holding gurus as perfect and thus beyond ordinary explanations,
their presumed specialness can be used to justify anything. Some
deeper, occult reason can always be ascribed to anything a guru
does: The guru is said to take on the karma of others, and that
is why his body has whatever problems it has. The guru is obese
or unhealthy because he is too kind to turn down offerings: besides, he gives so much that a little excess is understandable. He punishes those who disobey him not out of anger but out of necessity, as a good father would. He uses sex to teach about energy and detachment. He lives an opulent life to break people’s simplistic preconceptions of what ego-loss should look like; it also shows how detached and unconcerned he is about what others think. For after all, ‘Once enlightened, one can do anything.’ Believing this dictum makes any action justifiable.

People justify and rationalize in gurus what in others would
be considered unacceptable because they have a huge emotional
investment in believing their guru is both pure and right.”
(Guru Papers p.52)

152. ton - June 19, 2009

“That interest in one’s own salvation is totally
self-centered is a conundrum rarely explored.”
(ibid p.54)

153. Another Name - June 19, 2009

Self awareness


First understand the other, listen fully, being understood comes second

Bring out the best in yourself and others

CHANGE starts in side out not outside in. If you want change start with yourself

Conscience above material results

95% of what we do seemed to arise from our subconciousness, this adds for me to forgive my/yourself and others.

Big hug to all and enjoy the summer it is tomorrow the 21 of June enjoy and celebrate life and the longest day and celebrate us and what ever your feel like celebrating.

154. Another Name - June 19, 2009

“I’m Yours”

Well you done done me and you bet I felt it
I tried to be chill but you’re so hot that I melted
I fell right through the cracks
And now I’m trying to get back
Before the cool done run out
I’ll be giving it my bestest
Nothing’s going to stop me but divine intervention
I reckon it’s again my turn to win some or learn some

I won’t hesitate no more, no more
It cannot wait, I’m yours

Well open up your mind and see like me
Open up your plans and damn you’re free
Look into your heart and you’ll find love love love
Listen to the music of the moment maybe sing with me
I love peaceful melody
It’s your God-forsaken right to be loved love loved love loved

So I won’t hesitate no more, no more
It cannot wait I’m sure
There’s no need to complicate
Our time is short
This is our fate, I’m yours

I’ve been spending way too long checking my tongue in the mirror
And bending over backwards just to try to see it clearer
My breath fogged up the glass
And so I drew a new face and laughed
I guess what i’ma saying is there ain’t no better reason
To rid yourself of vanity and just go with the seasons
It’s what we aim to do
Our name is our virtue

I won’t hesitate no more, no more
It cannot wait I’m sure
There’s no need to complicate
Our time is short
This is our fate, I’m yours

Well no no, well open up your mind and see like me
Open up your plans and damn you’re free
Look into your heart and you’ll find the sky is yours
Listen to the music of the moment come and dance with me
A lá one big family (2nd time: A lá happy family; 3rd time: A lá peaceful melody)
It’s your God-forsaken right to be loved love love love

I won’t hesitate no more, no more
It cannot wait, I’m sure
There’s no need to complicate
Our time is short
This is our fate, I’m yours

No please, don’t complicate
Our time is short
This is our fate, I’m yours

No please, don’t hesitate
No more, no more
It cannot wait
The sky is yours!

155. elena - June 19, 2009

Another Name,
CHANGE starts in side out not outside in. If you want change start with yourself

We all already tried that one in the Fellowship and it was bullshit. It’s not this or the other, it’s both.

I understand and respect your intentions but they are no longer for me.

People can hide in their little cocoon and pretend to be changing themselves, but change is both inner and outer.
Becoming indifferent to what happens outside is not changing but another great buffer.

156. elena - June 19, 2009

Another Name,

Out of curiosity and with all due respect, how are you changing when you’re preaching the same thing the Fellowship preached?

Isn’t it yet obvious that that little phrase is what all religions everywhere use to keep people from actually questioning the sick society in which we are living? And cults are the epitomy of such state, how can you be preaching that again?

Keep preaching that if that’s what you enjoy but don’t expect the blessing proper of the cult.

157. Tatyana - June 20, 2009

You are a violent person, Elena…

158. elena - June 20, 2009

If that’s violent, I wonder what is war for you.

Guess you didn’t pick up the dead outside of your house in the morning when you went to work. They picked up a dead woman here half a block away last week, beaten and then strangled with an iron chord.


I shouldn’t have said “with all due respect”. The Fellowship obviously made some serious sissys around and you expect me to eat this bullshit, the same one the Fellowship preaches for ever and the priests in the sunday mass everywhere.

You ask a question to see how you can put me down and when you can’t you have to shut your mouth up and wait for an opportunity to judge me. Didn’t like your answer did you? Violent, good lord, at least I’m not hiding behind stupidity to say what I am going to say.

159. X-ray - June 20, 2009

151. ton – June 19, 2009

‘Guru Papers’ truly is a Bible.

160. Another Name - June 20, 2009

Dear Elena and others.

I pick up several dead bodies in my life and still ….monthly if not weekly.

I questioned the above a lot…

I question why the 7 week old had 18 broken bones in his body?
I question why this one uncle abused his sister, nieces, and many more women for 40 years and is now in prison leaving several family members and others behind sooooo wounded?

I wonder why soooo many women are abused, sexual and emotional? And men?

Why the 3 year old got raped? Why?

I have cried, for it, in the middle of the night, I have tried to speak with God and not much of an answer and yet Elena I am still living all these question and I have chosen not to get hung up to an answer.
One answer does not fit

I am still asking people questions….why did you not call the police when you were abused and now 40 years later when your grandchild got abused you had the energy to call? Why? I ask questions Elena as that feels more respectful, fits me better, then judging or lashing out or…
Judging and drawing too fast conclusion before I can see the whole picture has not been beneficial for me…

Lashing out makes me more distant from others and I need connection in my life, an important need in this phase of my life.

If you read that I was preaching the same as the fellowship that I have been very unclear in my writing. The above what I wrote, I use daily as it fits me well and his my tool, my handle, my anchor to hold on too Elena. How I sail through my life. This is what I just wanted to share and I hope that I can share and be free in my words? Can I? I wonder too, again Elena or do I have to fit some unspoken rules, some unexpressed expectations that I do not even understand?

Yes, can I be what I am? For Godsaken after living so many years, after the fellowship?

It’s your God-forsaken right to be loved love love love sings Jason Mraz and I sing with him Elena and I wish this for you and for all of us Elena and I will hold on to this Elena, as otherwise it is for me much harder to live Elena……….

My words and my feelings behind my words were a respond to Whaleridder’s letter as he had similar questions.. or at least that is what I felt Elena, felt and still feel very much thrown to my own devices these day and it is what is. And indeed I enjoy this more inward time and when some thing comes up like now I open my door and go outside and share with the possibilities of being misunderstood.

I try to be congruent and caring to the ones I am with and myself after so many years finally with my self…pffff

It’s your God-forsaken right to be loved love love love
And I am still singing Elena and others and making my heart lighter and able to go daily forward, step by step in this life. This life, till dead part us?

P.S. Sorry that I did not share my joys of seeing the beauty in many aspects of my day, and I enjoyed the Omo People a lot as I do the people I encounter or just watch when I move through live.

Joy and pain are intertwined and I choose to feel them both, embrace them BOTH

161. elena - June 20, 2009

Nice Another Name, thank you. That’s all very powerful and beautiful. Thank you for being direct and using my name (even if one too many, don’t we flip?) when you are addressing me; if we can’t even respect each other enough to say each other’s name when we are addressing each other then these phrases taken from bibles like “CHANGE starts in side out not outside in. If you want change start with yourself” sound like judgement. Decrees from the higher being. Your tone in this new post is totally different, more human! The tone, the manner, the attitude? Is it that surprising that you get a different response? You say what sounds like these very judgemental decrees at the beginning and then soften it at the end wishing everybody all this love and luck and I feel like: who is writing and what are you actually saying?.

Rereading it, the tone in the end is sweet but the first bible sentences are still so cultish and that particular one still makes me sick from the Fellowship and the priest in front here on Sundays, repeating the same things to people so that they continue to take every abuse passively.

My apologies if my tone wasn’t sweeter.

Tatyana, I didn’t use your name in post 158 but I meant to. Your decree is also one half of the spectrum. How come when a lighter side of me comes out you don’t throw your same decrees? Might you be bias!? Seeing only the half black of the world that makes you white is only a way of adorning one’s own imaginary picture.

162. dragon - June 20, 2009

Today is a little progress in warning about the FOF!

It concerns only Germany, but I am absolutely happy that the information about the FOF is now part of warning website, called “Religio”.


If someone has the wish to complete this information with links etc., please don’t hesitate and send an email to me.
We have the possibility to give further information to the author of this site.

That’s Religio:



It is a special privilege to send Mr. W. Müller (from Religio) a sunny smile from this site and to express my sincere thanks! 🙂

163. dragon - June 20, 2009

and greetings to all the iranian people, who suffer from oppression and who are willing to fight for humanity, the truth and the right to exchange experiences with the whole world and all over the world.

It will be a hard day/night for you!


Religions and States should be no unity!

Unfortunately it is often enough a sad story of the seizure of power, the increasing thirst of power and the merciless retention of power!

May the hearts of all human beings go to the protest meeting today and may there be no bloodshed.

OK that’s the FOF discussion and I will close now.

164. fofblogmoderator - June 20, 2009

162 is newly moderated

165. fofblogmoderator - June 20, 2009

Elena- Please send me your email address. I tried sending you an email but it got “kicked back”. You can send it to me in private at nogurus@yahoo.com

166. Panoritsa - June 20, 2009

In the meantime Iranians go through something so huge:

Lists of embassies who accept injured Iranians (since their own hospitals are not safe, their names are instantly listed…)


And it will not take long before those embassies will not be safe any more either.

Amnesty International has a petition:


I do not even want to think of Burton’s idiotic statements during the 9/11, or other difficult moments in the history of mankind. He knew everything and he was always right, assisting members to forget the world they live in and focus in their own little “mission” to awaken.

167. elena - June 21, 2009

Thanks Dragon for your posts.


If you’re going to ban me again don’t bother to say so in private, make it loud and clear ‘cos it’ll be the last time. Maybe we’ll even hear the applause!

My email is at the end of this post tabluttatg maildotcom

168. dragon - June 21, 2009

166. Panoritsa

I do not even want to think of Burton’s idiotic statements during the 9/11, or other difficult moments in the history of mankind. He knew everything and he was always right, assisting members to forget the world they live in and focus in their own little “mission” to awaken.


Thank you for this statement!

The concentrating on “I AM” and the forgetting of all my fellow men or our whole planet Earth is in the Burtonian way the expression of the only true teaching of a lonesome and forlorn child who tries to get closer to warmth.
But B. never realized or felt absolute selflessness and therefore is his teaching a weird vicarious satisfaction for his inner emptiness.

He is an expert in seduction because it was the only possibility for him to get a spark of “his” warmth.

His system and the self-laceration of his victims are the perfect camouflage for him and his victim-enablers.

To reproach oneself again and again and to ask for more discipline/punishement etc. makes his victims as if paralysed and
supports the FoF system.

169. Mikey - June 22, 2009

Obscure Footnotes – Lord Meher – Bhau Kalchuri Pg. 6404

“George Gurdjieff (born 1877) was an adept-seeker who traveled and studied in Turkey, Persia, India and Tibet with various Sufis, yogis, fakirs, monks and lamas. After several years, he became a master teacher of Sufi dances and music, Tibetan temple music and various esoteric sciences, as well as an accomplished linguist, speaking numerous different Eastern dialects. Gurdjieff first taught in Russia (escaping during the Bolshevik revolution in 1914), and then traveled to France and established an esoteric school outside Paris in 1922 until his death in 1949. He traveled to New York and Chicago during the 1930s.

Among Gurdjieff’s most accomplished adherents were the Russian mathematician and metaphysician P. D. Ouspensky and the American architect Frank Lloyd Wright. Ouspensky was the author of such esoteric works as “Tertium Organum” and “In Search of the Miraculous”. Wright became famous throughout the world for his marvelously innovative homes, museums and public buildings.

Inventing several long multi-syllable words, Gurdjieff wrote an intellectually complex esoteric book on the civilizations of the Eastern and Western human races, entitled “All and Everything”. Another book of short stories, entitled “Meetings with Remarkable Men”, was made into a commercial movie in the 1970s.”

170. brucelevy - June 22, 2009

171. Another Name - June 22, 2009

Dear Elena and others

Just saw this article again and thought you and others might enjoy it very much I stilldo and read it like times.

Enjoy wherever you are.

It is about the function of blame why we do it and what the purpose is and the counter part is COMPASSION…


172. Kid Shelleen - June 22, 2009

“159. X-ray – June 20, 2009
151. ton – June 19, 2009

‘Guru Papers’ truly is a Bible.”

Before you start down this road, perhaps you should read this:


173. elena - June 22, 2009

Falling down the precipice, got to stop it
Rolling down the mountain, got to stop it
Bang, bang, bang and got to stop it Now.

I Now, I, I, I, Splash!

And if I miss I with the Splash
Keep rolling down the mountain,
Falling down the precipice
Bang, bang, bang,
Can’t stop it Now.
Ay, ay, ay!

Bang, Bang, bang
and the bullets stop where I am
No matter how fast they come
I live, I die, same thing,
I am.

Keep snowballing down the mountain,
And crawl back up
Up and down
Down and up
Just a metaphor
Of the heart

Shoot me down
Shoot, shoot, shoot
Help me out!


Ha, ha, ha
Says the body to the soul,
Ha, ha, ha,
you thought it was I who suffered your abuses,
Ha, ha, ha
And you thought I wasn’t the last one to laugh
Ha, ha,
Didn’t realize the weaving green of life was your existence
Didn’t grasp the spirit in the thing and missed the point,
the wild beast that you can only tame with the love of your mirror
The Son
And I don’t just mean your body
but the body of life,
this life
under this Sun
that you crucified.

I am the bearer of life
I’m the source and the fountain.
I am light
I’m the Spirit
both dead and alive

Grasp not the dead or the living
But the eternal motion
Where I remain still.

I am both the hurricane and the hurricane’s inspiration
If love can’t touch you,
May its fire burn you to existence.

This dead life,
Lives and dies
In me
Each Now

I am not the body
or the heart’s pulse
but the blood that runs
between them and gives them

174. in2it - June 22, 2009

Not sure where the word “blame” is coming from in your post Another Name. But “blame” isn’t the operative word here. The word “blame” in the context you use seems to be a type of false dichotomy (you either blame or your have compassion, is the message I get from what you’re saying), and I also sense it’s a type of straw man argument — i.e., people are just writing on the blog to blame others for their own problems. Words that are more interesting and pertinent to the FOF are lies, hypocrisy, group dysfunction, manipulation, obfuscation, psychological harm, ignorance, lack of accountability, and deception.

Keep in mind that a person can “move on” and live their life happily and productively — and spiritually — and still point out the lies, hypocrisy, group dysfunction, manipulation, obfuscation, psychological harm, ignorance, lack of accountability, and deception of the FOF. In fact, to find happiness and to live productively and “spiritually” (whatever that may mean to each one of us) may actually require that we bring light to these things.

175. in2it - June 22, 2009

Kid, looks like an interesting article. Can’t speak for ton, but if I believe there’s an if-then statement in his comment, “‘Guru Papers’ truly is a Bible.”

He’s saying (I believe) if you truly want to learn about the lies, hypocrisy, group dysfunction, manipulation, obfuscation, psychological harm, ignorance, lack of accountability, and deception of the FOF and Robert Burton, then the ‘Guru Papers’ truly is a Bible, and if you’re looking for ways to escape from and heal from a cult experience, then the Guru Papers is truly a bible. Correct me if I’m wrong, Ton.

But whatever problems someone may have with the authors, I haven’t seen anything that captures the problem quite so articulately and concisely as the Guru Papers. The book truly points the way to a conscious awareness of the FOF — and to being present with that truth.

176. Jomo Piñata - June 22, 2009

172/Kid Shelleen

Great article.

177. ton - June 22, 2009

172 kid
ya, thanks kid, that article provides some good background on the authors and a bit of balance/ counterpoint to the guru papers.

since you’ve lumped me in with a statement by x-ray…. just to be clear, i didn’t refer to the guru papers as ‘a bible’ and when i read that statement from x-ray i wondered about the association (?)

to be a little clearer, i’ve quoted guru papers a couple of times in recent pages, using the same quotes both times because they seemed somewhat applicable to something someone had written here on the blog…. and to the fof situation in general. although quoting a source more than once might seem at least pedantic if not ‘dogmatic,’ nevertheless i think there is probably a lot of useful information in the g.p. — that is, if the information is used in the right way. that being said, my posting of material from that source is not intended as a sweeping endorsement of the book and any reference i might post from that source should not be misconstrued as my quoting from ‘scripture’ or otherwise offered from a place of dogmatic reverence as might be implied by equating it with ‘a bible’ — you’ll have to ask x-ray about that…

178. WhaleRider - June 22, 2009

Great piece on the Guru Papers, thanks Kid. Here’s some highlights for me:

“Alstad and Kramer no longer believe in the concept of enlightenment, especially if it is defined as complete dissolution or transcendence of the selfish ego. “I don’t believe it’s possible for anyone to transcend self-centeredness in a permanent way,” Kramer said. “I think there are times you can do it momentarily. Altruism exists.” But altruism and egotism “are embedded in each other,” he explained.

When I mentioned that some gurus have an air of supreme self-confidence that lends credence to their claims to be enlightened, Kramer smiled grimly. “It’s amusing to me that one of peoples’ conceptions about enlightenment has to do with being this self-contained unit, where nothing can come in and bother you,” he said. “That’s what psychopaths are like. Nothing comes in and bothers them.”

Alstad and Kramer have had mystical experiences—through psychedelics and in other contexts—but they were reluctant to talk about them. Too often, revealing your mystical experiences sets you apart from others, Kramer explained. He is also acutely aware that he, like everyone, interprets his experiences according to his prior conditioning. He rejected the notion that mystical experiences represent pure, unfiltered visions of reality, which transcend the mystic’s personal and cultural context.

“This is one of the most dangerous ideas the human mind has ever constructed,” Kramer said heatedly, “the idea of purity, whether it be pure experience or pure this or pure that.”

A healthy spirituality, Alstad added, should not focus on altered states; it should help us confront and find solutions for all the problems besetting us, such as overpopulation, environmental degradation, violent nationalism, racism, and sexism. Religion too often exacerbates our problems rather than ameliorating them, Alstad suggested, and not just by fomenting intolerance and violent fundamentalism.

“A lot of people who could be part of the intelligent solutions are the ones whose heads are lost” in some form of traditional spirituality, she explained. Even a spiritual path that emphasizes selflessness, forgiveness, and unconditional love can do harm by diverting us away from real-world problems.

Alstad reminded me that Buddha’s quest for enlightenment began with his abandonment of his wife and child. Hinduism and Buddhism still exalt detachment from everyday life and relationships as the pinnacle of spirituality. Women would never have created such religions on their own, Alstad said. “The new spirituality needs to be co-created by men and women.” Such a spirituality would emphasize the importance of human relations rather than denigrating them.”

179. Kid Shelleen - June 22, 2009


I didn’t mean to implicate you in that statement, I just copied and pasted post 159, which was x-ray’s response to you. And I also didn’t post it to belittle Alstad, Kramer, or anyone here who is a proponent of reading Guru Papers. It’s a book any former or current Fofer should read. I was just looking to supply a little balance to our picture. Incidentally, if anyone reading this hasn’t read John Horgan’s book “Rational Mysticism,” do so immediately. Both the Alstad-Kramer article and the “Myth of the Enlightened Guru” article, which I posted earlier are chapters Horgan wrote for that book, although neither made the final copy. All the outakes can be seen at his website. Of particular interest to those here might be this one:


180. in2it - June 22, 2009

Kid and Ton, thanks for clarifying. Great article… short excpert that caught my attention:

When I mentioned that some gurus have an air of supreme self-confidence that lends credence to their claims to be enlightened, Kramer smiled grimly. “It’s amusing to me that one of peoples’ conceptions about enlightenment has to do with being this self-contained unit, where nothing can come in and bother you,” he said. “That’s what psychopaths are like. Nothing comes in and bothers them.”

181. in2it - June 22, 2009

actually, I see whalerider noticed the same. Interesting page here.

182. Another Name - June 22, 2009

Thanks in2 it fogot the link.Here is the delayed link…

For myself I am exploring blame and what is behind it. When we /me blame other people,love th esubject and it teaches me a lot.


183. Opus 111 - June 22, 2009

Thanks for the article, Kid.

One sentence that caught my attention:

“This is one of the most dangerous ideas the human mind has ever constructed,” Kramer said heatedly, “the idea of purity, whether it be pure experience or pure this or pure that.”

Purity was everywhere in FOF, and its use as a concept is prevalent in all religions (pure heart, pure intentions, pure silk, pure white, virgins, etc., you get the idea). It has led to well chronicled catastrophes (ethnic cleansing as in the quest for pure race). Its mere concept is contrary to any common observation of the human condition: nothing is pure in man, or on this planet. Purity, especially in its spiritual context, is an absolute term that undermines reality and its relative characteristics.

Quest for purity is exploitive and controlling. Contrast that to the state of child-like innocence that is all accepting (obviously at its own risks). Mix the two and you have yourself the start of a promising cult.

184. in2it - June 23, 2009

Thanks for sharing the link, Another Name. Yes, our thoughts do shape our lives… have been learning this and re-learning this the older I get.

It’s a “negative thought” that all possibilities will cease by leaving the school, and it’s also a negative thought that the school itself is the cause of all problems in in our lives. Both of those attitudes can hinder us, hold us back. I think it’s possible to see the need for others in power to be held accountable for their actions and inactions without blaming them for our own shortcomings. You can offer dissent without it becoming an entire identity in itself. It’s just a part of us — a part that sees the need for external change as well as internal change. Cults like to focus on that “internal change” thing, because that focus tends to divert our attention from the need for external change.

185. Yesri Baba - June 23, 2009

“Batchelor still believes in enlightenment, or “awakening.” As he understands it, enlightenment is not a state of permanent bliss and beatitude. It begins as a transitory experience that fades but leaves you permanently altered. “You somehow have a glimpse of the world from another perspective. But the actual path begins there. It doesn’t end there.”

I likey. You likey Mikey?


Bill Russell ( former Boston Celtics basketball great ) to the Dalai Lama:

“How were you able to combine the spiritual with reality?”

Dalai Lama: “It took me 30 years.”
(I am assuming that is from ‘the beginning’)


“So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I’m a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald…striking.

So I’m on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one–big hitter, the Lama–long, into a 10,000 foot crevice, right at the base of this glacier….

So we finish the 18th and he’s gonna stiff me. And I say, ‘Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort,you know’. And he says, ‘Oh, uh, there won’t be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.’

SoI got that goin’ for me, which is nice.”

Bill Murray in ‘Caddyshack’

186. Tatyana - June 23, 2009

I knew your post was for me.
What lighter side? I did not yet see your lighter side. It’s all very intense. Another Name posted a song from a lighter side and you just unloaded anger at her. That is violent. I am sorry you live in the war. But it does not justify your emotional violence.
It’s a second time I noticed that Another Name triggers this reaction in you. And your reaction triggers my reaction to tell you that it is plain wrong. I don’t like seeing people hurting people. When someone brings your flowers don’t throw them in his/her face even if you don’t like him/her.

187. elena - June 23, 2009


There have been lighter sides even if you haven’t seen them precisely because there is no sympathy.

This probably won’t get through because it seems I’ve been banned but you have no idea how frustrating it is to keep trying to communicate ideas and get only personal remarks back. This must be Babel.

With Another Name I am also talking about the precise idea of change yourself and only yourself which was so popular in the Fellowship and even though we’ve gone back and forth there is no mention of that idea.
We each talk our own language without hearing the other. Babel indeed.
I have a lot more sympathy for Another Name than for you Tatyana. I appreciated your posts at the beginning, expressed sympathy but you’ve stayed cold, distant and judgemental until I am ever so glad to tell you that I’m not going to carry you passively any more. We have the opportunity to observe the work practically and watch how our features get into each other’s nerves and I’ve no less power than you vanity and we blow up in smoke and learn from it if we are willing to dialogue but don’t stand a chance if the moderator is inclined to take sides and ban people when they defend themselves aggressively or not allow them to speak to defend themselves so that you can all go ahead and give your reasons while I have to watch because I’m not allowed to post.

There have been times in which I’ve been attacked by four and five people and the moderator hasn’t banned anybody nor did I expect him to although I would have been very glad if he’d had the courage to moderate it, but I answer you with your own coin and back track into the history we’ve been carrying and get banned without even being told because I challenge the moderator to do so publicly. I don’t understand a moderator that has to hide to exercise his role. While I carry immense gratitude and appreciation for what you’ve managed to accomplish here Steve, keeping silent and private is only one side of the equation.

So I’m not about to excuse myself saying I am not violent Tatyana, choleric they also call me but while my aggression is open and spontaneous yours and many of yours is passive and hidden, intentional and calculated. You might think you are better than me because you are more manipulative of the situations but I am glad to have the ability to react violently when I can’t put up with it any further and leave it there. I do not go chasing people after we’ve had a conflict, I actually appreciate them better when they have the courage to move on.

The whole issue of this blog for me has been breaking through the boundary of the public and the private and uniting both realms in a more human language. You might think that I am the only crazy one here but everyone here is moving into the public for the first time and we don’t know what it is like to be public without pretending to hide anything.

The internet is lending itself to such experience and I am not pretending to present a polished side of my self but the only self I can manage to still express with all its shortcomings. The problem perhaps is that I have never ever met anyone without considerable shortcomings in one or other aspect of their life and to pretend that only people without shortcomings can occupy the Public Space is just another way of presenting separations between people not only because they are women as when women could not vote, or black or jew, or from a lower class but that we’ve become such fascists that we now pretend that only absolutely coherent conscious people could speak as if any amongst us could hold such throne. There is nothing objective about that, compassion comes when we can acknowledge each othe’s shortcomings and still let each other be.

In the sphere of the social world we’ve resorted to killing each other rather than dialoguing when there is conflict. In the personal sphere we’ve resorted to murder or to suicide when there is personal conflict or to deepen the boundaries that separate us OR remain comfortable in the imposed silent of social distance of whatever national, economic, social-class or academic contract we’ve imposed and submitted to.

In the sphere of the human we can no longer avoid conflict if we want to dialogue. It’s in this sphere that we can both battle and dialogue because the human within each one of us is able to survive, able to let each other be even in our differences. The digging in our differences is what we’ve been dealing with but after a while it would be easier to grasp what is human enough about each one of us.

There is not one amongst us who has not struggled with him or herself and in every struggle with one’s self the only guarantee of survival is that one can let one’s self be in the fullness of one’s compassion. You have no idea how much compassion is necessary to tolerate my self, how tempting it is to die every day of my life. It is what I learnt to do as a child and I’ve not yet been taught anything else no matter how much I try to learn. But unsuccessful as I might be, I’ve learnt that the only way to deal with conflict is letting it be and looking at it in the face, calling it by its name and tackling with it. If we are going to continue killing each other because we have conflict over the land or the class, the race or the education that we pretend to possess, the sex, the sale or the mess we’re in, then let’s keep banning each other from every public square that we turn into our private club and may the last one win if that’s what you call winning but getting to know each other without the paraphernalia of all those statutes is still quite a messy thing.

People do not become human over night just as we did not become English, rich or educated overnight. And if we’ve verified anything by now it is that being of no matter what nationality, rich and educated does not make one necessarily human. And nothing will be sicker than when we start killing and banning each other because we are not human enough!
I am far from the human I would like to be, I’m goddam choleric and melancholic but I doubt I am in anything more miserable than a phlegmatic or a sanguine to use more generic temperaments than lunar or jovial, martial or mercurial. If even I can embrace myself as I am, what stops you from embracing me who do not have to deal with my hand? Do you really think you’ll rise any higher by putting me down?

I hope that you have at least come to understand by now that my war against the Fellowship of Friends is against the Fellowship of Friends and not against any of the individuals personally. That it is different to oppose the social behaviour of a group of people than to oppose the personal behaviour of a particular individual. Socially, cults like the Fellowship of Friends ought to be banned from existence. Individually, men like Robert Burton and Girard Haven, to mention only two of at least two hundred, need both individual and social therapy.

I personally need therapy, both individual and social, but I’m not criminal. The conflicts that we have in this blog are conflicts but not crimes and it is in treating them as crimes that the moderator raises a hand against the possibility of a purely human struggle and I will not tolerate being banned every time I have a conflict with someone.

You and I Tatyana have had our conflicts, we have our history, who can say that it is not true that you passively and manipulative asked a question hoping I could not answer it and then waited patiently for an opportunity to jump at me because I raised a legitimate question even if aggressively?

So do we now have the decree that we can only be aggressive to Fellowship defenders but that to each other we give only flowers? No. You say I am a violent person when I am aggressive but when I am loving you neglect to say I am loving, hence, I say you are bias. What is wrong with that? It justifies your banning me? We take it and move on or ban me and move on if that makes you feel comfortable but that’s no better than the Fellowship throwing people out who questions them and I’ll be honoured by being thrown out.

188. elena - June 23, 2009

Amazing, it seems I can post now although yesterday I couldn’t.

Thank you fofblogmoderator for letting me be. May we all help each other be who we are more deeply.

189. Tatyana - June 23, 2009

Elena, it seems to me that most of the conflicts are rooted in miscommunication. Most but not all. Some people just LOVE to fight. I don’t know why. I don’t.

“Do you really think you’ll rise any higher by putting me down?”

I am not trying to rise by putting you down, Elena. I am not trying to rise to begin with and I am not trying to put you down either. I just pointed something out that I call “emotional violence”. Do you prefer word “aggression” – OK, let it be “aggression”. Whatever it is it is “unnecessary and unfair infliction of pain on another person”. “Hurting” is another word.

“who can say that it is not true that you passively and manipulative asked a question hoping I could not answer it and then waited patiently for an opportunity to jump at me because I raised a legitimate question even if aggressively?”

I am not sure which question you are talking about. I did not wait for any opportunity to jump at you either. If this is how it feels to you – you project something on me.

If you talking about the question I asked you vial email and you made public… Well. I don’t know what to say. This is another act of “aggression” or whatever you like to call it. For one thing, it involves other people who are not willing to be vented in public as a dirty laundry. After your answer (for which you received a lot of positive feedback), I did not know what to do. I could not give you a positive feed back because your attitude drove me mad. I asked because I wanted to know your attitude about married men (not because I was hoping you can’t answer) – you gave your answer. Now I know. No remorse of conscience or anything like this. I think you justified your action and made people suffer without feeling bad about it. I disapprove exactly this attitude. The attitude of allowing oneself to hurt others emotionally. But who am I to approve or disapprove? I kept it to myself because I wasn’t sure you want to know how I feel about it.

Judgment? God bless those who are free of it! Do I judge women who “steal” married men? I do. I have strong opinions. This is why I left FOF. I judge RB for his behavior too. Those who don’t judge are still in!

190. elena - June 23, 2009

Thank you Tatyana for clarifying your position in that respect.

I accept your discomfort and opposition and respect your opinions on married men and women who go after them. Please accept my apologies for having reacted violently in a more vulnerable state than I am today.

Thank you Kid Shelleen, In2it and others for the interesting subject you’ve moved into.

191. elena - June 23, 2009

P.S. Tatyana,

I am very glad you were able to express your self about it. It is so much better than bottling it up. It is good to hear you.

If I’ve left anything you still wish us to pursue please let me know, we will hopefully continue the dialogue as we move along.

192. Tatyana - June 23, 2009

OK, but I prefer to do it via email. It might not necessarly be interesting for the rest of the bloggers.

193. Tatyana - June 23, 2009

Never did I know that being drug free can be so unpopular as these days! Dear bloggers please, help me to overcome my frustration as a mother and as a non-user. What is going on!!!
Every party at the OH these days does not go without pot. Students or not. My close friend gave to my 15 years old daughter a bag of pot asking not to tell me! Another close friend was providing it to the whole teen community in OH for years. My son confessed me that he started to do drugs at the age 14 with all his OH bodies! Mothers, fathers, teachers, older friends – not only provide – pressure to do it! Am I too outdated or are there anyone else drug-free out there???

194. brucelevy - June 23, 2009

191. Tatyana

Pot is pretty pervasive all over. On the other hand, when I was “in” many of the people who smoked did so to numb themselves to the fact of a living hell. It’s much worse now, thus…….

195. Yesri Baba - June 23, 2009


I posted something absolutely brilliant last night and it didn’t show up. Is it in moderation?

It is of utmost importance that this post be shown. I finally uncovered the final piece of the puzzle, the answer everyone has been waiting for. It is amazing! No one will believe it!

196. Yesri Baba - June 23, 2009


Just kidding. I did post something and was wondering if it got lost. No biggie.

197. elena - June 24, 2009


I also posted something, it’s absolutely crazy but I felt enlightened while writing it. After, I had to ask the moderator not to let it through even if he hadn’t banned me convinced that I could still hide the madness from you! but it felt so good!! I’ll rewrite and let you look at it one of these days! I don’t think it was the answer anyone is looking for but it felt like it was the one I was looking for!

198. Panoritsa - June 24, 2009


regarding your request for help… I have been working with teenagers for almost 15 years. As we all know a human being is in its most vulnerable and creative phase. The teenagers I know are not into pot (maybe because it is legal here?), but they consume alcohol.

From what I have seen in OH, I can say that it is a very difficult area to raise ones children. It is not impossible of course, but it requires quite some effort from the parents’ side. I wouldn’t personally want my teenage daughter to be hanging around in OH and OH store. There is nothing really stimulating for a curious mind there. The Fellowship has provided some basic principles in terms of music and art. There you have M. R. with the ensemble of kids and the Shakespeare plays (which Burton tried to destroy of course…) and it is wonderful that they get to do all those things. However, there is hardly any time for teenagers. And on a psychological level, most teenagers know their parents have other priorities. This is an embedded knowledge and they go on living their lives like this; which is quite destructive for a child growing up.

I am often surprised to hear parents talking about the “love” in the fellowship and how good this for their children is. The completely off comments I have heard from members who did not have children! About how mechanical they are, biological existence, how noisy they are and we cannot really experience our king of hearts with them around, the quick judgment about their body types, center of gravity, alchemy. In the center where I was, the gossip that had travelled to OH and back home was that the teaching house had to close because many members would bring their children there.

Once I cooked a meal on my Sunday (after a long week of work) for the members of the teaching house. I was playing some kind of role and we had to meet to discuss how to continue with the teaching house. I took the meal from my home there and I took my two children with me (who could probably watch tv while we were talking). One member (who was supposed to be a friend), stood up and walked away announcing us they would not stay for the meal and the discussion if children were around…I was stunned (of course did not say anything…). Here I was unwanted because on a Sunday noon I dared to bring my children with me (after I had spent my morning cooking for the others…).

I am not surprised to hear the stories about pot and OH. I keep in mind there are second hand of course. The best thing I can say is that I wouldn’t live there. I know some of my friends (who are not members any more) enjoy the community and work hard to have their children enjoying and learning things. But I have never liked the area. There is not a real social structure as this is provided in larger cities or organized communities (not that you do not encounter drug and alcohol issues there…), but one needs to drive for some time to reach a place that people have created out of a natural need to live together in a community, where there is some history. The Fellowship bases its existence on being exclusive, conditional and separate. And it lacks love and warmth for the non members (and children are non members till they fall into the trap and join…)

199. Yesri Baba - June 24, 2009

195 Elena

Mine was a quote from Bill Murray in the movie Caddyshack. Definitely a couscous work.

200. sharon - June 24, 2009

It’s odd, but we thought that raising our kids in the country (not to mention FOF Central) would be so healthy for them – but for teens I think it can be quite toxic, even for those whose parents did not abandon them night after night to babysitters when they were young while they attended events on the property.

Years before leaving the FoF, we moved away from OH in order to give our children some opportunity to be involved with whatever interested them after school – sports, music, libraries, something that was not hanging around the OH store (ballet did not interest them). Before we moved we were driving them around all the time, to GV for gymnastics, back to GV at midnight to pick up after a band concert or a track meet. We still drive them around, but the distances are bearable. Most OH kids do not participate in any extra-curricular activities in town because transportation is so difficult, and their parents do not encourage them to do something that requires so much effort from the parents.

Of course pot is very available everywhere, but OH has the reputation iamongst the high-schoolers in GV of having the most ‘liberal’ parties – where drugs and alcohol are freely available with no adult supervision (or with the wrong kind of adult supervision). I also have heard stories (first-hand) about men going to the kids’ parties and coming on to the girls (as young as 12).

I think that your daughter is at risk there unless she has strong self esteem (which comes from a variety of influences, but the parental influences are the strongest), interest in something ouside of school (music, agriculture, sports, whatever) and a parent who can and will take the time and energy and money to ferry her around to fulfill that interest. And becoming involved in something may mean being perceived by her friends as abandoning them, so she would have to be willing to handle that. At least in town she could become involved in something interesting wihout quite so much work.

I suggest you talk to some of the older girls who spent their teen years in Oregon House about their experiences there (preferably those who did not join FoF, though I’ve heard some sad stuff from some “in” also). And spend time with your daughter. I was quite surprised that most FoF parents don’t even have most meals with their children. For us that daily family dinner discussion time has been quite important through the years. You may already do this, obviously I don’t know your parenting patterns.

201. Tatyana - June 24, 2009

Thank you Bruce, Panoritsa and Sharon.
When I joined FOF I had two small children. Because I was stay-home-mom I could contribute more time for the 3d line of work and was pretty active at the center. Once my friend (and an older student) commented that my kids “pooped my brain”. Meaning that I am too identified with them and it is “A-influence”.

When I moved to Apollo leaving my children for teenage-babysitters was pretty normal. They were 3 times cheaper than adults. Even then for 2 kids I spend a lot of money on them.

In addition to no money and no time there was an issue of alcohol on a daily basis. Couple of glasses of wine every dinner was a norm.

Though I was always trying to be in “householder” I left my kids alone at home a few times. I had a police warning twice for that. My son dialed 911 trying to scare my daughter. I know a lot of Russians who leave their kids at home alone just because they can’t afford baby-sitting and just were not “caught.”

Kids learn how to manipulate their parents and have a “good student act”. I saw pictures of students’ teen children having a birthday party in coats and ties at the table served by the standards of Galleria! The same children who go wild when parents are not looking!

Recently I asked an older student (who was pretty stoned at that time) how do I “work” with the fact that my son uses drugs. He said that it is a very good sign, that he is creating a magnetic center and this is how he himself found the School by experiencing the “states”. No wonder pot is so popular there…

202. Panoritsa - June 24, 2009

From Tatyana’s last message:
…Recently I asked an older student (who was pretty stoned at that time) how do I “work” with the fact that my son uses drugs. He said that it is a very good sign, that he is creating a magnetic center and this is how he himself found the School by experiencing the “states”. No wonder pot is so popular there…


this is such pure nonsense!!!! There are many reasons teenagers use substances (part of the experimentation phase). But the term “old student” equals “old fool” for me.

I am sure there are social workers who can help you use common sense and give you professional advice.

Thank you Sharon for your post.

For me sharing time with my family and finding fun things to do with my children is such a gift! I’ve met so many unhappy little faces in the fellowship with parents running around, chasing the impossible and forgetting to enjoy the counted moments with their loved ones, I definitely do not want to repeat the failure.

Listening to teenagers is what most parents find hard to do. Just listen to their own song. However boring, uninteresting, repetitive it might seem. Learn to enter their world. But in the Fellowship people are taught to ignore their own voice and feelings and temperaments. How can they apply this to their children? Also, you cannot really fool a teenager. When your life sucks and you are unhappy and you just pretend nothing is wrong, just trying to make it to the next sequence and go to another meeting to not have to deal with the many I’s, your child knows you are faking it!

203. Ames Gilbert - June 24, 2009

It appears that someone has posted the “David Springfield” letter on Wikileaks, an act which I suggested as a possibility in my post #74-22 of June 3rd. That someone rather unkindly used my name and telephone number (which is freely available and which I have published before several times on this blog) as a contact person.

Wikileaks has this to say:
Censored Fellowship of Friends cult letter from former legal council David Springfield, 2009

The Fellowship of Friends is a “intellectual” fourth-way cult founded in the 1970s by its current leader Robert Earl Burton[1][2][3]. It claims chapters in many countries, including 10 chapters in the United States[4].

This file contains a copy of a letter sent to the members of the Board of Directors of the Fellowship of Friends apparently by their former legal counsel. The letter outlines many illegal activities of the Fellowship of
Friends and omissions of oversight by said Board of Directors, and possible consequences if these matters come to the attention of the authorities.

The document was initially released on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, but was wholly censored by the publisher WordPress.com after it received a claim of copyright infringement under the US DMCA.

A version of it was then made available on the Internet Archive (archive.org), but it too has been removed.

The letter refers to fraud obtaining religious visas, fraudulent accounting, inurements to the chief minister (Robert Earl Burton), tax evasion, and so on. It may be of interest to agencies within the US government and the
governments of other countries.

“Interested parties can call Ames Gilbert at (530) 272-4775 (within U.S.A.).”

My wife had a very bad dream about Burton last night, and this prompted her to enter his name in Google this morning. The Wikileaks entry was noted by an internet discussion site called Godlike Productions, and it seems like Abraham Goldman was also doing an internet search recently and found the link on Godlike Productions, because when I went to the site (the first time I’ve ever been there, as I had no idea they existed before this), there was a full discussion going on. Why? Not because of the original note (which linked to, but did not quote the Wikipedia entry), but because Abe sent a letter asking them to take the link down. It seems the editor and readers are a lively crowd, so they hastened to discuss the whole matter, with the result that the knowledge of the letter is much more widely dispersed than it would have been if Abe had just shut up. I mean, I bet every reader here didn’t know the letter had been put on Wikileaks, and probably would never have known otherwise.
During the correspondence between Abraham Goldman and the editor of the site, I read two paragraphs that are rather disturbing to me personally. I called Abraham today, and after making a great show about not remembering about this letter, he called back and confirmed that he had indeed written:
“My office intends to subpoena such information pursuant to the DMCA and all other applicable laws very soon.”

“Mr. Gilbert has a long documented history of illegal acts toward the Fellowship, including, but not limited to copyright violations, privacy violations, defamation, invasion of privacy and violation of federal internet and electronic communications laws”.

So, it is apparent that Abraham thinks that I posted the letter to Wikileaks, and that I have a long documented history of illegal acts; and that he intends to act (presumably against me) in some manner soon.

Unfortunately, here in the U.S.A., most of the time plaintiffs and defendants get to pay their own costs, unless some kinds of damages are awarded or the judge makes an exception. So, all Abe and the FoF have to do is to start a case, and my very expensive legal defense bills start mounting up. No matter who ‘wins’, I pay. And that is often used as a weapon to get agreements and settlements in and out of court. The powerful and wealthy can basically use the advantage of their wealth against those with more limited means, and leave them in penury; the one with the deepest pockets wins. Sometimes known as SLAPP suits (from Wiki: A Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation (“SLAPP”) is a lawsuit that is intended to intimidate and silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition. Winning the lawsuit is not necessarily the intent of the person filing the SLAPP. The plaintiff’s goals are accomplished if the defendant succumbs to fear, intimidation, mounting legal costs or simple exhaustion and abandons the criticism. A SLAPP may also intimidate others from participating in the debate).

And here is the funny thing. I tried to find the actual letter on Wikileaks, but no joy. It talks about it, but I can’t read it or download it!!

For those with long attention spans, I reproduce the correspondence in full from the website. Worth reading for the irony alone.

Regards to you all,

Cc: ‘Abraham Goldman’
Subject: Demand for Immediate Removal of Copyrighted, Private and Privileged Information


Post Office Box 120
12896 Rices Crossing Road
Oregon House, CA 95962-0120

Abraham N. Goldman Tel. 530-692-2267
agoldman@succeed.net Fax 530692-2543
June 21, 2009

“Godlike Productions”
DMCA and legal compliance officer:

I am the lawyer for the Fellowship of Friends, Inc., a California non-profit religious corporation. Please call my office: 530 692 2267 to verify.

My client wishes to work with you on this matter in a cooperative fashion. Please do no hesitate to contact me by email or by telephone at any time.

This notice concerns a post by a Mr. Ames Gilbert: “Censored Fellowship of Friends cult letter from former legal council David Springfield”, possibly posted or dated 6/14/2009.

My client demands that the Post reproduced below, by Ames Gilbert, be removed immediately, and that all links or traces of this post be eliminated. My client also demands that all electronically stored information, as that term is used in Rules 26 and 34 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, be preserved immediately and permanently, until further notice. My office intends to subpoena such information pursuant to the DMCA and all other applicable laws very soon.

Please take notice that the post by Mr. Gilbert reiterates or paraphrases copyrighted AND ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGED MATERIALS, WHICH CAN NEVER BE PUBLISHED UNDER ANY “FAIR USE” DOCTRINE. The underlying materials were and remain privileged and private and no legal rights under any federal or state law were ever waived by my client, the owner of the letter and it’s copyright.

PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF THIS EMAIL IMMEDIATELY, and that the offending post was removed immediately.

In addition to violation of copyright laws and privacy laws, my client also takes the position the post is libel and defamation, and violates federal laws on electronic communications. My client also reserves the right to take legal action against any person or entity involved with the publication or distribution of the subject post by Mr. Gilbert, and/or the referenced underlying attorney client privileged and private letter.

My client looks forward to your immediate cooperation and compliance with all federal and state laws and regulations.

Once again, my client wishes to work with you on this matter in a cooperative fashion. Please do no hesitate to contact me by email or by telephone at any time. Mr. Gilbert has a long documented history of illegal acts toward the Fellowship, including, but not limited to copyright violations, privacy violations, defamation, invasion of privacy and violation of federal internet and electronic communications laws.

Thank you for your immediate attention to this very important matter.


For an attorney you should know that the post in question does NOT violate the DMCA. You should also know that NO attorney client privileged information is contained in that post. If you can provide real evidence of a law that is being violated here I will be happy to investigate the matter further. In the mean time I have published this threatening letter on our website for the public to review. If you believe this post represents libel I suggest you take that up with the person who made it and attempt to prove what they are saying is NOT true. (good luck with that) I will be awaiting any subpoena for information via our corporate headquarters in Jersey, Isle of Man. (good luck on that as well)

Please be aware that further threatening letters will also be published for public consumption.

Have a nice day,


Second Letter from Abraham Goldman:
Dear Mr. Frost:

Thank you for the prompt reply.

You are incorrect that my communication was a “threatening” letter. If you comply with the law, you are protected from any legal process. You state you are or will be in compliance, so there is no possibility of any “threat” to you.

The post in question paraphrases a letter which unquestionably is a privileged Attorney Client communication under the laws of any state, nation and international law. Nothing is more fundamental that the right of a client to communicate with their legal representative. Kings and Emperors and Star Chambers fought against this, but the right to counsel prevailed.

Publishing a paraphrase of a privileged document would be an easy and convenient way to avoid any laws of copyright, privacy or privilege. That is what Mr. Gilbert’s posting attempts to do. There is definitely attorney client information in it that is the whole intent of the posting. It also links, or attempts to link to the full letter itself: the Courts have held such a link can be a violation of copyright laws and the DNCA all by itself. The link is a direction to the full private, privileged letter itself.

People who take a stand for legal rights do not “threaten”. They ask for civilized compliance with the law. Respectfully asking for legal compliance is not a threat. The world stood still while Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin violated law after law: there was the threat. Freedom and Responsibility need and deserve equal respect and equal compliance. Violating laws of privacy and legal privilege do not further either.

I will forward to you the additional information you request. In the interval, my client’s demand and notice that it’s rights of privacy, privilege and copyright be respected stands as previously stated.

If you would be so kind as to reply with the corporate name, address and email that would be greatly appreciated.

Abraham Goldman

204. Panoritsa - June 24, 2009


this is very disturbing. However, someone else posted the letter under your name. I am not familiar with the laws in the US, but it is clear that the person used your identity without your consent. Isn’t this a crime in itself? And can they not trace down who actually posted the letter (there are ways…)? It could have been anyone. Past or present member of the Fellowship, with obvious or hidden agendas…

205. elena - June 24, 2009

Hi Tatyana,

May the length of this post simply express my concern in your question.

In addition to Panoritsa’s post with which I agree, I’d like to take the issue from another angle. Pot and drugs in my time were a way of not accepting the society I was in and building on a different one that included another dimension. Looking at it this morning I suddenly realized that from there to the Cult it was a direct run down although I had long stopped taking anything before I joined. One of the things I was looking for in the Conscious School was a human size society in which I could fit with all my already well-developed shortcomings. One of the reasons I kept staying was because I continued to think that if I worked hard enough sooner or later I would fit and after working hard enough I finally realized that nothing about me could fit in that monstrosity no matter how hard I tried. It was like one of those stories in which the character is trying to make a huge leap to avoid death and lands right on top of it. The point is, What life are we trying to deal with and avoid at no matter what age and how can we include all the dimensions that we are after? The dark side of drugs was that they run my centres down to the rim and depressed my “I” so badly that recovering the pleasure of life has been a mammouthic effort. It might sound like I was badly into drugs but it’s not the case. It was what we did between fourteen when we moved out of my father’s house and eighteen. We weren’t addicts like those they show on films and at eighteen I split and went to study in Europe without ever taking much of anything else. Of course, a few of my close my friends committed suicide during that period and still I wouldn’t say they were addicts. The drugs are only an aspect of the problem and both these friends drunk more than they smoked. Pot definitely affected my memory and during that period I have huge voids, as if I’d been living in dark clouds, as if that shine that life use to have as a child had worn off and become opaque. That is what has seemed most difficult to overcome after long periods of drugs in myself and other people I’ve observed: recovering the shine of life which in the long run is simply a healthy “I”.

Only now, at fifty, I am beginning to get a glimpse into the difference between being happy and being well. I was brought up by the television and maids that disappeared before they finished giving us dinner and happiness was when Rin tin tin saved the child or batman got into his batty mobil! And despair was when no one could save the wounded in Dr. Kilder’s hospital. I both laughed and cried the whole of my physical, emotional and intellectual development plugged into a T.V. From there to drugs it’s also just a run down! The point I’m trying to get to is that life in my times and environment was designed towards the pursuit of happiness from outside stimulus. I never knew the pleasure of doing things. The lack of a family took away the importance of ritual and deepened the meaninglessness of life, the lack of a nation left us without an identity and the lack of an art or trade left me without will. I’ve spent most of my life serving others, bringing up men and women as if they were children while trying to grow up my self and making with my children all the mistakes that I couldn’t avoid victim of the circumstances and an insatiable pursuit for love that left no time to live.

To round it up I could say that life has lived on me but I am only just beginning to live.
I am absolutely convinced today that every human being is capable of realizing his or her self if they can only count with enough trust from those close to them from the beginning. One of the difficulties is that we parents are as painfully wounded and can’t possibly transmit to our children a trust we don’t have in our selves or the world we are living in. What I am beginning to discover is that trust in one’s self is what allows one to develop will and will seems to be the main source of well being. Will, as an aspect of the expression of one’s self is especially, the trust in one’s ability to create. Every real effort is a creative act even if one is simply learning to read. Knowing that “I can learn and that I can do” reinforces the trust in one’s self. (“Man cannot do” another aspect of the System that interpreted literally by the Fellowship mined our trust in our selves and our connection to the world).

I lived in an utilitarian age in which the act of men were worthy only in terms of what they produced but to create is not necessarily an utilitarian act. I was brought up thinking that to be a worthy part of society I had to do something that made money but no one ever mentioned that doing something was worth the effort in itself and money was only a side effect so I managed to solve the money making and never did anything significant because I wasn’t interested in the productive aspect of society or in the monetary value of my effort and I was plane ignorant about how or what to do to get anything practically done. The educational games I worked on never reached the public no matter how beautiful I still find them! I’ve lived in an squizophrenic society in which only the utilitarian counts and life hardly lives in the utilitarian. I did not know what to guide my children towards because I had not gone anywhere my self. The Fellowship was simply the idealized state in which I poured in all the faith and the money I was unwilling to pour into regular society and abandoned my younger daughter to her father with the intuition that he loved her more than the Fellowship ever could and my older daughter searched her way into the Fellowship which was the only thing I’d shown her. If we had ever had a chance to be it was swept away by life in the Fellowship in which we became pawns in a ready-made society of pimps.

So the question remains, what do we do, where and how. For whom, when and why. What does your daughter do when she doesn’t have to do anything Tatyana? My suggestion is that you try to find what she likes to do when she is not forced by the external world and help her do that as much and as often as she can. Do, touch with her hands, in what is she actively and not passively engaged? What does she bring from within her self that is not conditioned by others? In what is she willing to put her will and invest her I because that is what will bring her well-being. Each activity is a source of a particular strength. Even T.V. has its place. And movement, it is surprising how important movement is for a feeling of well-being. Then they need love, that is, all the time and space that adults can give them. Not just food and shelter but all the free time that one can find and at fifteen it is already very difficult to re-establish that connection if one has already lost it. They need to feel they matter to be able to trust themselves. Sitting doing nothing with them is also a wonderful way for others to know that they are loved without having to justify themselves in any way.

At fifteen though, they are hopefully still young enough to allow for a great deal of authority to impose limits, don’t be afraid of exercising the full power of your authority to impose limits where you think it’ll avoid her being harmed. Those limits help her define her self and know that you’ve got enough of an I to impose your will which is always a good reference to build her own. But don’t expect her to find a life of her own if you take the little she’s managed to build on away. Don’t ask her to be without loving her being.

206. WhaleRider - June 24, 2009

From ton’s Guru Papers quote:

“That interest in one’s own salvation as totally
self-centered is a conundrum rarely explored.”

Interest in one’s own salvation = magnetic center

Magnetic center = self-interest

Drugs = intense fuel for magnetic center’s interest in chasing personal states

Polarized, extreme self-interest = narcissism

So let’s explore the “magnetic center” concept as a totally self-centered pursuit that smacks of narcissism…drugs or no drugs!

…or how about cult group compliance = end of magnetic center = end of self-interest = end of conscience…!

As a long time ex-follower, I am grateful to be raising my children away from the Fellowship of Friends AKA Pathway to Presence!!!

207. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

201. Ames Gilbert

Aside from the fact that you didn’t post it, it seems honest abe’s incorrect reference to you and your illegal activities is closer to “illegal” than anything you’ve actually done. Why not discuss this with someone like Ford, or even C. M. I remember a letter C. showed me years ago from that bottom feeder. It was a similar threat which ultimately was thrown out as rubbish designed to be intimidating. But C. stated right from the start that it was pure bull shit, and he could plainly see it. It sounds like it might well be a similar situation.

But remember, above all else, fuck Abraham Goldman, and the slug he rode in on.

208. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

201. Ames Gilbert

But it WAS pretty empty headed to use your name as a reference in the first place.

209. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

201. Ames Gilbert

It could be just as likely that Abe posted it himself.

210. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

…to tie it to you, since it was already out there.

211. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

At the same time, all the while, the real and original culprit is the fool who wrote it in a hissy fit, and the FOF who didn’t protect their papers. With all their past incompetence it’s mind boggling that the haven’t been the cause of their own dissolution. I guess the local and federal governments are even more incompetent than the FOF. “there’s no justice on this level” now where have I heard that.

212. Walter J. Tanner - June 24, 2009

Ames –

I don’t know if you’ve got a regular 40 hour/week job, in which case this becomes difficult, but ESPECIALLY for such a SLAPP suit you should just represent yourself. People are very intimidated by the court system–and lawyers do everything to keep this fear alive–but if you are honest and forthright with the judge and can invest a bit of time in some research it’ll go fine. I don’t think you’d have trouble getting character witnesses, hell this blog itself would be your Evidence A. And there’s lots of us who could do some legal gruntwork for you.

And if for some reason you need a lawyer, we’ll throw a fundraiser. I’d be happy to do it at my home in the Berkeley Hills, and others could do it in OH or other places. Maybe there is even someone on the blog with legal expertise.


213. Ames Gilbert - June 24, 2009

Follow-up from the Godlike Productions website. On page 14 of the discussion (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message822282/pg14), the site editor says he contacted his lawyer:
Here is the response from our law firm about the issue…

Our guys are up early!

Seems we are right on track and these guys are full of shit…

“I believe you are correct in your position on this matter. Vicarious liability would hinge on direct copyright liability and I doubt that such exists in this situation. The letter in question was presumably not part of any registered copyright at the time of its allegedly “unauthorized” publication and, as such, no damages or attorney fees award would be at issue. I also do not understand the DMCA threat and see no violation of that Act.”

In another post, the editor says:

You might also find this interesting.

I asked our law firm this question

Just for my personal knowledge….

I noticed he was screaming “attorney client privilege” in his emails…

It is my understanding that this wouldn’t even apply once that document was leaked by a 3rd party as it only applies between the attorney and the client…

What are your thoughts on his approach in using “attorney client privilege” in his attempt to get the information suppressed?

Thanks for the info,

This was their response

You are correct. Even an “inadvertent disclosure” of privileged communications usually destroys the privilege. You usually cannot “unring the bell” after a disclosure, even if the disclosure is unauthorized. I think his argument has no merit.

I love these guys…

They kick ass…

214. brucelevy - June 24, 2009
215. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

from the thread:

“There are certain requirements that have to be met before a claim of copyright infringement can be made. You claim copyright infringement on publishable material that money can be made from based on its content, like songs, stories, etc.

Claims of copyright infringement doesn’t apply to news items and evidence supporting news, like this letter, because in order to make a claim of copyright infringement they would have to establish that there is a profitable market for that material and you are cutting into their profits by publishing it. This is part of the principle that there have to be recoverable damages in order for people to sue. A claim of copyright infringement doesn’t apply to news and evidence supporting news like internal company documents, because they can’t meet the damages test.

But just being threatened with a lawsuit is enough reason for a lot of websites and people to pull info. Especially when it’s a crazy religious organization, because those litigants are irrational and will burn up tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars in litigation fees to oppress and punish whistleblowers. Corporations sometimes do the same thing, if some concerned citizen blocks a polluting power plant or something. They bring lawsuits that are frivolous because they can afford it, knowing that the lawsuit expenses alone are enough to oppress and punish activists.”

216. brucelevy - June 24, 2009


“Here is my response…


For an attorney you should know that the post in question does NOT violate the DMCA. You should also know that NO attorney client privileged information is contained in that post. If you can provide real evidence of a law that is being violated here I will be happy to investigate the matter further. In the mean time I have published this threatening letter on our website for the public to review. If you believe this post represents libel I suggest you take that up with the person who made it and attempt to prove what they are saying is NOT true. (good luck with that) I will be awaiting any subpoena for information via our corporate headquarters in Jersey, Isle of Man. (good luck on that as well)

Please be aware that further threatening letters will also be published for public consumption.

Have a nice day,


217. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

They also posted Whalerider’s video in 2 parts. Good on them.

218. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

I won’t post any more on this item, but I encourage anyone who is afraid of these threats to read the entire thread on the above link. It’s very enlightening.

219. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

I lied…one more

“May 19, 2000

ABRAHAM N. GOLDMAN [#102080], 50, of Oregon House was suspended for one year, stayed, placed on two years of probation with a six-month actual suspension, and was ordered to take the MPRE within one year and comply with rule 955. The order took effect May 19, 2000.

Goldman stipulated to misconduct in five consolidated cases.

In the first matter, he was hired to represent a client in a dispute with a former employer. Goldman did not file the suit for more than five months and did almost nothing to move the case forward. Without consulting his client, he moved to dismiss with prejudice the claims against one defendant and the remainder was dismissed by the court. Goldman did not appear at the hearing or submit an objection. After the case was dismissed, Goldman asked his client for authority to dismiss the lawsuit.

He stipulated that he did not keep his client informed about developments in his case or perform legal services competently and he committed an act of moral turpitude.

In a second case, Goldman brought a series of lawsuits on behalf of several clients against two groups of defendants involved with nursing homes. Without obtaining their informed, written consent, he settled the case against one defendant for an aggregate of $150,000, a violation of a rule of professional conduct. Goldman says he obtained global settlement waivers from each client before complaints were filed with the bar. He provided some of the waivers to the bar.

Goldman used the $150,000 settlement as seed money to fund the litigation against the second group of defendants. When that matter settled, Goldman prepared settlement statements that did not accurately reflect how the original settlement was to be distributed. With respect to two clients, he did not provide an accounting showing cost deductions from their settlement funds.

He settled one client’s claims for less than the client had authorized.

In a related matter, Goldman represented a client individually and as conservator of an estate in connection with their claims against one of the groups of defendants. The client authorized Goldman to settle for $100,000. The client’s family members objected, however, and signed an authorization which changed the settlement authority level to $125,000. Goldman settled for $100,000 and stipulated that he did not perform legal services competently.

He also stipulated to mishandling his trust account and client funds. However, he did not act intentionally to misappropriate client funds. He represents that his clients received all the funds to which they were entitled and he admitted that he failed to adequately supervise his staff and monitor their activities with respect to his client trust account.

In mitigation, Goldman has no record of discipline since his 1981 admission to the bar and he demonstrated good character and rehabilitation. His wife became seriously ill after the birth of the couple’s second child, and Goldman had to care for his wife and their children. He himself became ill and arranged for another lawyer to take over the nursing home cases.

220. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

“Fair Use Notice:
This site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Users may make such material available in an effort to advance awareness and understanding of issues relating to civil rights, economics, individual rights, international affairs, liberty, science & technology, etc. We believe this constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C.Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.
For more information please visit: “

221. Panoritsa - June 24, 2009

one of the hundreds of posts that pour in “Godlike productions.”:

They got it right in a jiff! Now the members of the “Godlike production” (what a name – sounds like a prediction to me…) are checking all over the internet for the Fellowship of Friends.

Someone “in” made a big mistake…

222. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

From that site’s lawyer…

“I believe you are correct in your position on this matter. Vicarious
liability would hinge on direct copyright liability and I doubt that such
exists in this situation. The letter in question was presumably not part
of any registered copyright at the time of its allegedly “unauthorized”
publication and, as such, no damages or attorney fees award would be at
issue. I also do not understand the DMCA threat and see no violation of
that Act.”

223. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

They also linked to the petition.

224. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

from their lawyer again, just as I figured:

“You are correct. Even an “inadvertent disclosure” of privileged
communications usually destroys the privilege. You usually can not “unring
the bell” after a disclosure, even if the disclosure is unauthorized. I
think his argument has no merit.”

225. brucelevy - June 24, 2009

on page 15 of their thread Greg just entered the conversation with an invitation to answer questions about the FOF.

226. Panoritsa - June 24, 2009

…and a link to the blog here…:-)

227. Another Name - June 24, 2009

Dear Tatyana and Elena and others

Comparing has a part of violence in it…Many subtle violence is in our language embeddedand often people are not aware of it. When somebody interrupts and start talking about him/herself this can be violence, very subtle.

“My mother is going to kill me” is a form of subtle violence and obviously a misconception, many American teenagers use.

Comparison is a form of subtle violence…like I have a lot more sympathy for Another Name than for you Tatyana.

When you put somebody “up”, the other goes down. It is a ineffective way of communicating if there is an aim to connect. Most of the people I hear here have a need for connection. I for sure..

I hear a lot of subtle violence communication in my daily life and it saddens me. There circulate a rapport about violent language and the relation to violence. If I find it I will post it here.

for your “feeling of rightness” enjoy

228. ton - June 24, 2009

this could ‘go viral’ — excerpts from the thread at GLP

Re: Who The Hell Is “Fellowship of Friends, Inc.,” & Robert Earl Burton & Why Are They Threatening GLP – UPDATED P.14

‘Well we can’t let these poor gullible fools be molested any longer. Since that stupid lawyer brought this cult to light perhaps there is something that can be done to make sure that its snuffed out and the guilty parties recieve prison time they deserve.’

‘ Exactly what I was going to say. I think there is enough of a smoking gun to warrant investigation. My suggestion is to the California readership of this forum to write to the CA Attorney general and governor’s office armed with the flood of information compiled here and ask what is being done, to investigate, and further ask why this is being allowed to exist. Allegations of this type especially sexual would merit investigation in any other jurisdiction and should be appropriate here.’

229. ton - June 24, 2009

222 bruce
our ‘friend’ greg is up to same old tricks over there, he’s monopolized the space and inserted himself as the center of attention…. again. poor, misguided, derranged freak!

230. ton - June 24, 2009

ok, one more from the glp thread for comic relief…. interesting to read responses from those unfamiliar with the fof shennanigans–


Here’s some fun “Thoughts from the Teacher”April 2008(Burton).

You’ll see references made to sequences (Gurdjieff was something of a numerologist), and an apparent work assignment to find these number sequences in old tv shows. You’ll also see the words “Man number four”, this is also a cheap rip-off of Gurdjieff’s categories of men. In addiction you’ll see many references to “C influence”. This refers to the Creative force, as opposed to the Destructive force. There is a third force, which represents all other elements outside of any particular conflicting situation. The whole C & D influence is quite interesting when described by a REAL teacher of the 4th way, of which Burton clearly is not.

Here ya go (now entering lala-land):

“The Fantastic Fours” have been searching episodes of “Gilligan’s Island” for keys to the sequence and references to our school. There were seven castaways, one for each day of the week. Gilligan was Skipper’s man Friday. This makes Skipper Thursday and the Professor Wednesday, which is hump day. That reminds me. Excuse me, I have to go do something. Alonzo! Bartholomew! Fetch the ripe cantaloupes! Oh, and a new syringe. The castaways were on the island from 1964 to 1967 when the series was cancelled. There are 156 weeks in three years. Our school has lasted thirty eight years. This a creative period in our conscious teaching so we do not need to go into reruns.

People are leaving and this is good for the school. The school is evolving by the sacrifices we are making. When I was a
man number four I subsisted on chicken wings and mayonnaise. I had to have special pants made. The official pattern of our school is now plaid. Karl Lagerfeld was not a conscious being but he had a wickedly gold alchemy. So did Thurston Howell the Third. To maintain a gold alchemy one needs to remove each individual hair from the tub. Christ said, every hair is counted. At the end of one’s life, one will have a large bag of hair. Our time together is precious.

Thurston Howell the Third was also Mr. Magoo. This signifies that even a gold alchemy can be blind. We cannot rely on alchemy alone to bring us into the present. There must be intentional suffering. Ask the waiter if this is genuine maple syrup. When I was a man number four I kept a small pebble in my shoe to bring me into the present. It was painful and I am now immortal. As a result I would “die” for my students and I expect the same. The Fantastic Fours have discovered that “die” had a different meaning in the Renaissance. Wait, that reminds me. Excuse me, I have to go do something. Clarence! Antonio! Bring the powdered wigs and the snuff. We are going to emerge from the bomb shelters in seventeeth century clothing.

and more:

Bob Denver was a good looking beatnik as Maynard G. Krebs but achieved true immortality as Gilligan. His isolation and ineptitude symbolized the position of a man number four which he transcended in 1967 when the series was cancelled. I was forced to resign from my teaching job in 1967.I ran for three seasons like Gilligan’s Island before my series was cancelled. These parallels are uncanny.

and my favorite:

I wish we could get more celebrities to join the Fellowship. It would be good for the cash flow. Scientology has Tom Cruise and John Travolta. All we had was Laurie Walters from Eight is Enough and she left anyway. We have been called a crappy little cult. Crappy is, after all, the root word of “crapulous.”

One of the reasons C influence has directed the Fantastic Fours to find examples of the sequence in 1960s and 1970s US television shows is that foreign students usually have trouble understanding them and can easily overlook the obvious. This makes them more adept at uncovering the subtle manifestations of the sequence that only I can validate. I never tire of reminding my students that Mr. Terrific was only on for one season, while Gilligan’s Island ran for three and has been in syndication ever since. Now that’s Long Be.

Mr. Ed is about a talking horse which only one man understands. Incredibly, no one else knows the horse can talk. This basic fact usually escapes the students who are here on religious visas. Unlike men number four, I find it very easy to understand Wilbur because his relationship with Mr. Ed resembles my relationship with C influence. When I am waiting in an airport to fly to Rome I am the only one who knows that C influence is speaking to us through the airport paging system or the graffiti in the rest room. That reminds me. Excuse me, I have to go do something. Willem, do you still have that Chinese finger trap? Bring the lobster fork and some capers.

231. fofblogmoderator - June 24, 2009

173, 185 & 213 are all newly moderated

232. Ames Gilbert - June 24, 2009

I guess you’re kidding, right, about the rights of folks to communicate with their lawyers? You’d more profitably spend your time, in my opinion, asking President Obama why he continues to support, and indeed expand on, the Bush doctrine of the infallible, unaccountable presidency which apparently has the right to lock anyone (U.S. citizen or no) away without recourse or representation, indefinitely. My research indicates that the government also believes it has an absolute right to listen in on anyone’s telephone and e-mail conversations, without even the minimal fig-leaf of FISA.

Getting down to your role as the Fellowship of Friends lawyer, you know and I know that you, the Board of the Fellowship of Friends, and the senior Council members believe that all followers have a higher duty to whatever Burton decides than to the law of the land, let alone conscience. This is why you continue to defend and protect the illegal acts that have been a central part of the history of the FoF for almost as long as it has existed. I myself have heard Burton claim he is representative of some higher morality and that he is not subject to the laws the rest of us labor under, man-made or physical. You believe (or pretend to believe) exactly that, and certainly your actions are not those of a free, independent legal professional who follows his conscience, then the law of the land, then the interests of his client, in that order.

I’ve looked closely (!) at the Wikileaks article, and I can see no words there that indicate that I posted the letter to their site. It just uses my name and telephone number as a contact. I can’t even find a way to communicate to them that I’d like my name removed. So, like the letter itself, my name is ‘out there’ for the time being. Tough luck for you, tough luck for me!

Look, Abraham, the posting to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion Blog came as complete a surprise to me as it (probably) came to you. You and David Springfield are probably cursing Black Marker, whoever he/she is; I am blessing him/her. The letter seemed truthful and sincere. I have no way of verifying that, but the circumstances, wording, and my general knowledge of how the FoF and Burton works made it seem more likely than not that it was true. You and I and a host of others know that the general gist and particular infractions the author listed are TRUE. The more you fight to cover it up, the more threats you make (and I’m not referring to just this letter, Abe, as you know), the more credence people are going to give to the whole affair. In your letter to the Godlike Productions website, you practically admit that the contents of the letter are true and valid. In your dubious claims (in my personal opinion, but then I’m no lawyer) of client-attorney privilege, you practically admit it. In the court of public opinion, you have admitted it. Because the claims made in the letter are, as you well know, grounded in fact; all you have left to do is defend the reputation of the Fellowship. Nothing can change the TRUTH, the facts of the case, but you can try to change public (and intra-Fellowship) perceptions of the truth. But, Abe, you are not succeeding, not by a mile, with the course you have chosen to take.

If you can find a way for me to communicate with the editors/organizers of Wikileaks on this subject, I’d be happy to ask them to remove my name. I sure don’t want to attract the fate of Thomas Becket after the Maximum Leader of his time, Henry II (who also claimed to be anointed by God,) asked rhetorically, “Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?”

I wish you well,

On Jun 24, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Abraham Goldman wrote:
Dear Ames:

Thank you for fwd the address.

Like I said, I need to search for my original letter, which I believe was done on my laptop at home.

I did find the “Godlike Productions” posting and have copied and pasted it below.

The Fellowship of Friends is a “intellectual” fourth-way cult founded in the 1970s by its current leader Robert Earl Burton[1][2][3]. It claims chapters in many countries, including 10 chapters in the United States[4].

This file contains a copy of a letter sent to the members of the Board of Directors of the Fellowship of Friends apparently by their former legal counsel. The letter outlines many illegal activities of the Fellowship of Friends and omissions of oversight by said Board of Directors, and possible consequences if these matters come to the attention of the authorities.

The document was initially released on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, but was wholly censored by the publisher WordPress.com after it received a claim of copyright infringement under the US DMCA.

A version of it was then made available on the Internet Archive (archive.org), but it too has been removed.

The letter refers to fraud obtaining religious visas, fraudulent accounting, inurements to the chief minister (Robert Earl Burton), tax evasion, and so on. It may be of interest to agencies within the US government and the governments of other countries.

Interested parties can call Ames Gilbert at (530) 272-4775 (within U.S.A.).

The posting and the structure of the website gave the distinct indication that the posting came from you or from you via someone else.

Is that is not correct, and you had no connection with this posting or “Summary”, please let me know as soon as possible.

Also, I’ll try to explain what the root of my own concern is. It is the right of every individual to freely and openly communicate with their “legal representative”, which today we often call “lawyers” or “attorneys”. They first thing Tyrants and mobs will do is deny someone the right to communicate with a lawyer: someone who knows the law. Then the individual is at the mercy of the lawless Tyrant or mob. So every civilized society gives a person the right to communicate with a lawyer. For this to have any meaning, the communication must, of course, be confidential. With no open discussion or fear of disclosure, the client would not be fully open and the lawyer would not be fully candid. Legal rights, including Free Speech, would be empty rights, and the individual would be back at the mercy of lawless Tyrants and mobs.

Freedom of speech does not trump personal privacy, and the attorney client privilege. In fact, attorney client privilege is the best friend of Freedom of Speech and the First Amendment. There would be no Freedom of Speech unless clients could openly consult, in the privacy of privileged conversations, with their lawyer: someone who defends their right to Free Speech and the Constitution. Every great Court decision upholding Free Speech came after a client consulted a lawyer, protected by the attorney Client privilege.

So, my concern applies equally to you, The Fellowship, and all individuals who want to preserve their freedom. Any violation of an individual’s right to have a privileged consultation with their lawyer endangers the rights of everyone. That is the power tyrants and mobs first try to assume. I would fight for your right to a private attorney client communication with the same force as I do for the Fellowship or any one else.


From: Ames Gilbert [mailto:nancyames@accessbee.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:53 AM
To: agoldman@succeed.net
Subject: Ames Gilbert’s e-mail address

Hello Abe,
here is my e-mail address. It is a bit confusing with all those doubled letters, isn’t it?


Thanks for talking to me this morning and making it clear that telling the truth as I see it has threatened you and the Fellowship of Friends in the past.
I’d like to point out that every action you take to cut off discussion of the “David Springfield” letter makes it seem more legitimate.
Certainly the efforts you are making in regards to the “Godlike Productions” website reveal you have something to fear. Certainly a number of people who neither knew or cared about the Fellowship are now digging away…

A bit like when you decided to go after Elena and her picketing efforts last year!

Why don’t you leave all this stuff in the hands of your version of “C-Influence”? Surely they have the power to “take care of business” for themselves without your misguided attempts to ‘help’? Or, don’t you in fact believe in it/them?

I look forward to seeing the copies of the e-mails we discussed, and I thank you for taking the trouble.

Ames Gilbert

233. Ames Gilbert - June 25, 2009

Well, I was wrong about not being able to download the file from the Wikileaks site. Because I’m connecting to the net on dial-up speed, it just took much longer than I expected. What I downloaded appears to be an exact copy of what Black Marker posted to this blog, complete with altered names and the not-quite-perfect command of the English language which confirms that a non-native speaker wrote it. There is no commentary or explanation, just the posting as it originally existed.

Indeed, you can’t unring a bell! But, I guess one can try to muffle the ears of any prospective or present member of the Fellowship of Friends, which is what Abe is attempting, as far as I can see.

234. brucelevy - June 25, 2009

232. Ames Gilbert

In their effort to conceal stuff Abe and the FOF probably doubled or tripled (at least) their exposure. And the FOF are supposed to be superior examples of higher men. Definitely deranged, blind and stupid.

Thank you guys and gals at Godlikeproductions, you’re my heroes. And thank YOU Abe. You made our goals that much more attainable.

Insanity- doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

235. brucelevy - June 25, 2009

Now Greg’s using that forum to demean Ton. They’re pretty sharp over there, I don’t think he’ll have a forum once he starts expectorating his philosophy and bile.

236. fofblogmoderator - June 25, 2009

232 is new

237. elena - June 25, 2009

Thank you for the good news of Godlike productions.

Another Name, If you stop wasting your time finding noes about everything I do, you might actually entertain yourself in something more useful than this kind of aggression.

The Non Violent agenda that you have might bring you a lot of adepts somewhere in Oregon House but I’m just not one of them. You can take your video and watch it till dawn if you like it so much, learn it well so that you can use it against anyone you wish convinced that this is not an aggression, then one day you’ll wake up and see what you’re doing for what it is. I will still be at your service that day.

238. elena - June 25, 2009

Yes Ames, You could count me in for support were it needed.

239. X-ray - June 25, 2009

Are the Godlike guys aware of the Petition?

240. brucelevy - June 25, 2009

239. X-ray

They are. They posted the link to it..

241. Another Name - June 25, 2009

Dear Elena

One day you want to be personally addressed and the other day you will say that I am wasting my time?

Dear Elena at my age I am so grateful to spend my time as Ia pleas. I do not need anybody’s approval. I just do what I feels, is right to me.

Dire Straights has a song, with part of the lyric; “ When I point one finger 3 fingers are pointing back to me”.

I am so ready for respect, openness, feedback form the heart. I can do without people who are talking more then 70 % of the time in a conversation (and this is not about you per se Elena). This blog helps me to be me. It fills a need in me and I hope that other people benefit form it. When I read the letter between Ames and Abe somehow it does not touches me so much…I read it, follow it. It does not make my heart tick. You help me question myself and somehow discover what makes my heart tick and what feels congruent and authentic to me. Having to agree with other people or being pressured to agree with others is just not what fits me and sure I am not choosing for it.

I do not have to belong or not belong to a group. I want to move where I am and take that spot that is mine.

I try to life my life after the fellowship, true to myself and the ones I am with. Big chore and I am very motivated.

Why do I respond to you? I wonder myself? Somehow I feel this urge to express myself? For Godsaken why?

When I read some writings it evokes obviously something in me and by questioning or read between the lines or ?

For example when I read your writing “the non violent agenda that you might bring”…. Is this assumption? This is confusing to me?

Next you write ” brings you a lot of adepts somewhere in Oregon House etc. All assumptions. Elena. Not relevant for me. Not even worth responding to. Maybe I am word blind after more then 200 words I wonder myself? Time will tell me as I know with question which come to the surface it is only a matter of time and answers will come.

I am so ready for people who really want to know what is going on in me. Who dare to sit with me and ask me questions once in a while and beside bares me as and are interested in me….

Writing you is from my part an act of courage and I wonder if this interests you Elena? And yes I wonder myself why I write this?
And yet I feel a new chance to stay close to myself, to live a more honest and truth full life after the fellowship.
Now I go over this, maybe this is my way to deal with the fellowship grief? God I wish I knew all my motivations from deep with in me.

The next what comes up in me is; “By writing here I take some space in this blog world. Maybe that is what I need …my piece to express myself what is alive in me? Trying to support and do my part in making the world an authentic, more human community, where people are aware of what we do to each other? What we express, verbally and what is behind the message? Seems like a big aim and yet I hope when I am almost dying that I can look back to an after fof period and do not have to question myself or have to many regrets and feel that beside if I did “my best or not” I had a full respectful life, doing no harm. Contributing my part.

With this I wish you all a great Thursday and go and take a looooong nature walk.

And this energy from Jason this singing energy somehow comes closes to what I would want to radiate,, to give to the world….ciao.

242. X-ray - June 25, 2009

Very good.
David’s letter is a timing bomb, it’ll detonate at certain time.

243. Another Name - June 25, 2009

The link of i am always be yours and is expression of it.

244. brucelevy - June 25, 2009

239. X-ray


245. ton - June 25, 2009

235 “They’re pretty sharp over there, I don’t think he’ll have a forum once he starts expectorating his philosophy and bile.”

with the ad hominem attacts and poisoned invective, our old ‘friend’ greg is up to his same old tricks and seems to have (at least temporarily) completely jammed up, monopolized and shut down the free flow of conversation over at the godlike production site…. sound familiar? and he hasn’t yet even resorted to the bombastic 4th way sermonizing that we’re all too familiar with here…. wait till they get a load of that crap!

one thing i will say in greg’s favor; at least he’s created a conduit between this blog and that one…. people who post over there can now access this site through the links greg provides. otherwise i’m pretty sure, sooner or later those folks will catch on that greg is a sick puppy and he’ll get himself banned there too.

to any godlike productions people who are reading this, here’s a “head’s up” — after some open debate and discussion amongst the posters here, greg has been banned from this site several times… previously he’s found a way to worm his way back in under false pretenses only to be banned again. (you could probably contact the blogmoderator here for details). i’m not a medical professional but imo greg has some serious psychological/psychiatric ‘issues’ and needs professional help.

246. elena - June 25, 2009

Nice Another Name, Now you’re talking. It’s beautiful, pure! No second intentions, no hidden issues, just you saying: “this is me and I can’t see me” and that is alright! I can’t see me either and if you try to point it out I can see the half of you you can’t see but not the half of me you’re trying to point out! That must be Babel!: the World of Features! but someone in us can see it after a while of being told! Shall we give our selves time?

It’s great that you’ve managed to speak without the aggression, the defensiveness or too much affection. I hope we can continue to get there: to just say what is in our mind and heart and still come to be with each other.

You mention the men’s conversation. Have you noticed the differences between what they talk about and women? And how both are so necessary? How they take care of the outer world and we of the inner world and we can barely cross each other’s street? That was one of the things that was so wonderful about Nigel’s presence: that he went back and forth without difficulties! I hope you’re doing well Nigel, you’re always welcome here! The other one that is pretty good at it is Unoanimo although there is always a distance IMHO and with much appreciation still. And then there is Laura who also crosses the street freely and Arthur and Crouching Tiger. The blog is ever so poor without you all but we do what we can to balance out your absence!

247. Associated Press - June 25, 2009

232. Ames Gilbert:

Notwithstanding what you and the Fellowship of Friends lawyer state in the various communications above, Freedom of Speech, attorney-client privilege and Freedom of Religion are great, but, any attorney who, in the process of performing their duties to/for a client, commits a crime, or collaborates/conspires to commit a crime, or advises their client to commit further criminal acts, is not durably protected by these constitutionally guaranteed provisions with such client(s)- the attorney, themselves, may find out what prison is like, lose their license to practice law, and/or find out just how foolish such actions can be. In short, an attorney, just like anyone else, who participates in a crime, can be held accountable. That is likely why it is so important to suppress the existence of that letter – it is the finger pointing the way – and as someone said, ‘Don’t look at the finger pointing the way; look at where the finger is pointing.’ (Now, where have I heard that one before? to use a Bruce-ism.)

248. arthur - June 25, 2009

I heard the Burton, Haven and Goldman gang has use of something called “shocks”. In order to become entranced in a void, something like that.

Wait until the F.B.I. shows up on their doorstep asking for fingerprints and/or other forensic evidence.

Hi Elena,

Por ested, “I’ll stop writing when silence feels better than words”.

249. elena - June 25, 2009

Arthur, welcome! That time will surely come and it’ll be no less welcome like you are now!

250. Yesri Baba - June 25, 2009

Another Name 227


Where did you find that video of Diaper Boy (Greggy Poo-Poo)?

251. waskathleenw - June 25, 2009

When “David Springfield letter” is googled, six links on the first page pertain.

Some contain the letter, but as a Word document only.

252. Yesri Baba - June 25, 2009

235 Brucelevy

Right again Bruce.

They smelt the stinkin’ diaper and left the room. Poor lil’ freak.

253. sallymcnally - June 25, 2009

poetic justice

254. veramente - June 25, 2009

230. ton
…The Fantastic Fours have discovered that “die” had a different meaning in the Renaissance. Wait, that reminds me. Excuse me, I have to go do something. Clarence! Antonio! Bring the powdered wigs and the snuff. We are going to emerge from the bomb shelters in seventeeth century clothing.
Maybe I am not getting it. Is this really from Burton? or it’s a farce on him?
I read this stuff on some earlier pages on the blog, I thought Jomo was the creative writer over Burton’s discourses which are extremely demented to begin with. Think about it, all those intelligent people following a dangerous idiot.
Grrrr…I am angry today! lashing energy….

Hello Arthur! : )

255. Ames Gilbert - June 25, 2009

Now I’ve had time to reflect, I don’t think this whole David Springfield Letter affair really signifies much, outside a rather small group of interested people. It doesn’t signify much to FoF followers or to blog readers (and I’d guess there are only fifteen to twenty regular blog readers nowadays). And it certainly isn’t of much interest to the “authorities”.
When Abe calms down, he’ll realize it doesn’t signify much, either, and it will all be over.
If there was much interest, the phone would be ringing right now! And this means that having my name out there is also insignificant. No particular harm done. But thank you nevertheless, Black Marker or whoever, for getting the letter out.
Unfortunately, in a week most people will have forgotten about this…

Thank you AP for a fresh viewpoint, and thank you Walter, for your support. I was there in court last year when Elena, representing herself, prevailed against the FoF appointed lawyer, and if came down to it and I could keep my head as well as she did, I think I’d be fine. But hopefully Abe will realize that when he pushes, the universe pushes back, and the results are usually not to his liking. As far as SLAPP suits are concerned, I’m lucky to live in California, according to Wiki. For anyone is interested, the relevant section follows…

Regards to all,

The U.S. state of California enacted Code of Civil Procedure § 425.16 in 1992, a statute intended to prevent the misuse of litigation in SLAPP suits. It provides for a special motion which a defendant can file at the outset of a lawsuit to strike a complaint where the complaint arises from conduct that falls within the rights of petition or free speech. The statute expressly applies to any writing or speech made in connection with an issue under consideration or review by a legislative, executive, or judicial proceeding, or any other official proceeding authorized by law, but there is no requirement that the writing or speech be promulgated directly to the official body. It also applies to speech in a public forum about an issue of public interest and to any other petition or speech conduct about an issue of public interest.
To win an anti-SLAPP motion, the defendant must first show that the lawsuit is based on constitutionally protected activity. Then, the burden shifts to the plaintiff, to affirmatively present evidence to show that they have a reasonable probability of prevailing on the action. The filing of an anti-SLAPP motion stays all discovery. This feature acts to greatly reduce the cost of litigation to the anti-SLAPP defendant, and can make beating the motion extremely difficult for the plaintiff, because they effectively must prove their case, without the benefit of discovery.
If the special motion is denied, the order denying the motion is immediately appeallable. Defendants prevailing on an anti-SLAPP motion (including any subsequent appeal) are entitled to a mandatory award of reasonable attorney’s fees. After an anti-SLAPP motion has been filed, a plaintiff cannot escape this mandatory fee award by amending their complaint. More than 200 published court opinions have interpreted and applied California’s anti-SLAPP law.
California’s Code of Civil Procedure § 425.17 corrects what the Legislature found to be abuse[5] of the anti-SLAPP statute (CCP § 425.16). Signed into law on September 6, 2003, this statute prohibits anti-SLAPP motions in response to certain public interest lawsuits and class actions, and actions that arise from commercial statements or conduct.[6] Section 425.18, signed into law on October 6, 2005, was enacted to facilitate SLAPP victims in recovering their damages through a SLAPPback (malicious prosecution action) against the SLAPP filers and their attorneys after the underlying SLAPP has been dismissed.

256. ton - June 25, 2009

245 veramente
i can see there is some confusion over the excerpt i posted from the godlike production website…. in fact earlier today, the author of that excerpt — whom you correctly identified, sent me this message via email:

“You know that stuff you posted and attributed to Burton, regarding Gilligan’s Island, etc., was a *parody* I wrote back in April of 2008, right?”

just to clarify, i’m pretty sure i never “attributed…. that stuff” to burton. but what i did in fact preface my post with was this:

“ok, one more from the glp thread for comic relief…. interesting to read responses from those unfamiliar with the fof shennanigans”

and i’ll add here, as it turns out it’s also interesting to read responses from those who are familiar with said shennanigans.

to be clear and to give credit where due, thanks again jomo for the brilliant satire/parody:

The complete “Aunt Bea Journal” can be found here:


257. veramente - June 25, 2009

thank you Ton for the clarification.
I thought Jomo did a good job in describing exactly the lack of capacity from Burton to actually have long thoughts.
To use the old language, Burton is probably centered in the emotional part of the jack of diamonds. He loves repetition as well if you know what I mean.

258. ton - June 26, 2009

254 veramente
there is some confusion over an excerpt i posted from the godlike production website…. in fact earlier today, the author of that excerpt — whom you correctly identified, sent me this message via email:

“You know that stuff you posted and attributed to Burton, regarding Gilligan’s Island, etc., was a *parody* I wrote back in April of 2008, right?”

just to clarify, i’m pretty sure i never “attributed…. that stuff” to burton. but what i did in fact preface my post with was this:

“ok, one more from the glp thread for comic relief…. interesting to read responses from those unfamiliar with the fof shennanigans”

and i’ll add here, as it turns out it’s also interesting to read responses from those who ARE familiar with said shennanigans.

to be clear and to give credit where due, thanks again jomo for the brilliant satire/parody:

The complete “Aunt Bea Journal” can be found here:

259. ton - June 26, 2009
260. Another Name - June 26, 2009

The Anti-SLAPP Resource Center
The United States and California constitutions grant every person the right to participate in government and civic affairs, speak freely on public issues, and petition government officials for redress of grievances. Yet, individuals and community groups are often sued for exercising these constitutional rights. These suits are known as “SLAPPs,” or “Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation.”

If you believe that you have been SLAPPed, then you’ll want to review FAP’s guide for SLAPP victims below.

(The following guide is intended to be a quick reference and provide general information to journalists and citizens. It addresses some common access problems, but does not substitute for research or consultation with a lawyer on detailed questions.)

from the following website


This website also mentions how to protect yoruself.

261. Another Name - June 26, 2009

Dear ELena

It sounds like you are much more positive about our communication?

I can not follow you when you write:” You mention the men’s conversation.” What do you mean?

When you Elena wrote ” It’s great that you’ve managed to speak without the aggression, the defensiveness or too much affection.

I must be blind too myself or….are n’t you the one too who is defensive and agrresive and that scared me? And too much affection, how can I speak with too much affection? According to who…you?
Pretty confusing to me?

Well from one angle we are responding 95 % from our subconcious accoding to psychologists, sooo….who is to blame anyway?
( Even if the numbers are lower like between 60-95%, ) IT IS STILL UNBELIEVABLE WAY TOO MUCH.

262. Draco - June 26, 2009

203, Abe speaking, “Mr. Gilbert has a long documented history of illegal acts toward the Fellowship, including, but not limited to copyright violations, privacy violations, defamation, invasion of privacy and violation of federal internet and electronic communications laws.”

Isn’t this libelous? Has Ames ever been tried for any of these alleged ilegal acts?

Also, regarding the copyright status of many of the FOF’s publications, emails and communications (not the DS letter), see the following. Fellowship students “on salary” are supposedly volunteers, so the copyright of anything that they produce for the FOF belongs to the volunteer, not to the organisation.


263. Mikey - June 26, 2009

Dear Ames –
So you are experiencing significance & insignificance virtually simultaneously! This is good, no one deserves it more than you.
May the great scoutmaster of all great scouts be with you.

264. veramente - June 26, 2009

He was a great mover!

265. X-ray - June 26, 2009

More Petition emails needs to be sent out daily to F.B.I. and other agencies. They’ve got to follow it.

266. brucelevy - June 26, 2009

Greg essentially killed the FOF thread over at Godlikeproductions. Who da thunk.

267. fofblogmoderator - June 26, 2009

262 is new

268. ton - June 26, 2009

re: greg, he sure knows how to clear a room…. i’m sure the folks that were posting over at the other site (prior to greg’s arrival there) don’t quite know what to make of the nonsense he’s spouting…. imo it’s just another sign of his derrangement that he’s (still) trying to wage a war of words with the folks here by posting over at the godlikeproductions site…. it’s absurd and pathetic. obviously he has some serious anger issues to work through…. i hope that he’ll get the help he so desperately needs before he acts out and does someone actual harm… the computer/keyboard is his outlet for a barely suppressed rage and aggression.

269. brucelevy - June 27, 2009

268. ton

Yeah. It’s funny in an obviously deranged way. He linked to this page, and then to a facebook page of someone else named Bruce Levy with a whacked out picture and said “this person is certifiably insane. What can one say. We’ll always be who we, are more or less.

270. brucelevy - June 27, 2009

sorry, what he actually said was

“This guy is a certified maniac:” And I have to say the picture does match the description. It’s funny, but not like a clown funny.

271. ton - June 27, 2009

i could be wrong but the picture appears to be of joe cocker (?)

ya it’s not a ‘ha-ha’ sort of funny but it is ‘funny’ as in odd/peculiar behavior…. he seems to have an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

272. X-ray - June 27, 2009

Greg, you are a real asshole.
Why do you play it dirty with your fucking lies? We know Bruce, it’s not him on the picture.
If you have something personal against Bruce, meet him up or call him and tell him every thing you want.
Or your balls to small for doing that?

273. brucelevy - June 27, 2009

272. X-ray

It’s probably just his perverse humor. Actually he’s told me, and quite a few others here exactly what he thinks. He’s never avoided confrontation. I just find it interesting that he used the other venue to continue his rants that would be stated here, if he could.

274. X-ray - June 27, 2009

Then fuck him any way.

275. in2it - June 27, 2009

For those who missed the above threads concerning the wikileaks site, just do a quick search for “Fellowship” or “Fellowship of Friends” on the home page:


There are two references to the “the letter.”

Interesting site. Their motto on the home page is, “We help you safely get the truth out.” The following are excerts from the “About” page:

“… could become as important a journalistic tool
as the Freedom of Information Act.”
— Time Magazine

“Wikileaks is a multi-jurisdictional organization to protect internal dissidents, whistleblowers, journalists and bloggers who face legal or other threats related to publishing. Our primary interest is in exposing oppressive regimes in Asia, the former Soviet bloc, Sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East, but we are of assistance to people of all nations who wish to reveal unethical behavior in their governments and corporations. We aim for maximum political impact. We have received over 1.2 million documents so far from dissident communities and anonymous sources.
We believe that transparency in government activities leads to reduced corruption, better government and stronger democracies. All governments can benefit from increased scrutiny by the world community, as well as their own people. We believe this scrutiny requires information. Historically that information has been costly – in terms of human life and human rights. But with technological advances – the internet, and cryptography – the risks of conveying important information can be lowered.
Wikileaks opens leaked documents up to stronger scrutiny than any media organization or intelligence agency can provide. Wikileaks provides a forum for the entire global community to relentlessly examine any document for its credibility, plausibility, veracity and validity. Communities can interpret leaked documents and explain their relevance to the public. If a document comes from the Chinese government, the entire Chinese dissident community and diaspora can freely scrutinize and discuss it; if a document arrives from Iran, the entire Farsi community can analyze it and put it in context. Sample analyses are available here.
In its landmark ruling on the Pentagon Papers, the US Supreme Court ruled that “only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government.” We agree.
We believe that it is not only the people of one country that keep their government honest, but also the people of other countries who are watching that government. That is why the time has come for an anonymous global avenue for disseminating documents the public should see.”

276. in2it - June 27, 2009

By the way, partly because of the ironically named “godlikeproductions,” references to the FOF have shown up on a few other sites, including Twitter:


Ah, gotta love the internet.

277. X-ray - June 27, 2009
278. X-ray - June 27, 2009
279. in2it - June 27, 2009

Yep, X-ray.

Since I copied more than one link, my next post is in moderation temporarily… but there are several sites that are picking up this “story.”

Of course, you can’t believe what you read on the internet.

But you can believe a man who routinely offers salvation to those who have sex with him, and who routinely warns of hell for those who offer their dissent. Simple formula, used by many. Nothing new, but no less malignant.

280. fofblogmoderator - June 27, 2009

276 is new

281. nigel harris price - June 27, 2009

Dear Fellow Bloggers
I am enclosing a copy of a personal email that I sent to Elena some days ago and the reason for ‘making it public’ is that I have been ‘scanning’ the blogsite over the past few days and feel that the aims of the site are now ‘back on track’ – i.e. disclosing information that shows the FOF up for the shallow, criminally run, ‘talent show’ which it is…..

“Dear Elena
I am not sure why I am using a personal email for this explanation of why
I have stayed away from the blog for some time now, since I am not afraid
of what people may think of me on the site.
To explain simply what happened, I became closer to Kate, and being ‘worked up’, allowed my state to ‘soar’. I came across obstacles and things that were ‘just wrong’ in life around me and so became aggressive and destructive. Although I called on the Crisis Service for help, there was incompetence on the part of the male members (so what’s new) of the team and so the staff at the Bishop Blaize had to call the police (Kate and I meet at the Bishop Blaize pub). I was subsequently sectioned and have had to spend three weeks in the local ‘nut-house’. As far as the blog was concerned, I felt I had said enough about love, mainly,and things on the blog were becoming a bit ‘hairy’. When I copied and pasted my correspondence with Governor Schwarzenegger and Senator Feinstein, I thought this would be an inroad to something being done by the authorities about the FOF scam but have received nothing back other than a referral to the Immigration service concerning my situation. As one blogger wrote – “Maybe the federal and state authorities are as badly run as the FOF”. Also, I have come out of my section on a ‘low’ and that may have some effect on why things with Kate have cooled off. I didn’t realize she was so much younger than I – apparently she is in her twenties, whereas I am 52. I am no great authority in ‘affairs of the heart’, but I think if I just try to remain myself and carry on my craft business and interests I have in all other areas of my life, if things do or do not develop between Kate and me, I will not be too excited one way or disappointed the other way. ‘Dragon’ also wrote a little poem for me – I am not sure at the present whether I will return to the blog – my state at the moment is not up to it, but I am glad to have had the opportunity to dialogue with all of you…..Nigel.”

Consider me in for the duration…..Nigel.

282. nigel harris price - June 27, 2009

Something to help Ames along…..

Frondes Agrestes 1.2

“The temper by which right taste is formed is characteristically patient. It dwells upon what is submitted to it. It does not trample upon it, – lest it should be pearls, even though it looks like husks. It is good ground, penetrable, retentive; it does not send up thorns of unkind thoughts, to choke the weak seed; it is hungry and thirsty too, and drinks all the dew that falls on it. It is an honest and good heart, that shows not too ready springing before the sun be up, but fails not afterwards; it is distrustful of itself, so as to be ready to try all things; and yet so trustful of itself, that it will neither quit what it has tried, nor take anything without trying. And the pleasure which it has in things that it finds true and good, is so great, that it cannot possibly be led aside by any tricks of fashion, or diseases of vanity; it cannot be cramped in its conclusions by partialities and hypocrisies; its visions and its delights are too penetrating, – too living, – for any whitewashed object or shallow fountain long to endure or supply. It clasps all that it loves so hard that it crushes it if it be hollow.” (Ruskin)

283. veramente - June 27, 2009

281 Nigel

Welcome back Nigel!
I am glad you are over the rough patch and that you are feeling more in balance.

284. nigel harris price - June 27, 2009

283 veramente

I think the saying goes – “Faint heart never won fair lady”. I am having to play out the scenario of intermingling with the police, but not in a Mental Health Section 136 situation. The ‘pigs’ were out in force when there was little or nothing to do tonight, but when the rampant teenage revelers came in sight, they were all hiding behind the heavily armoured interiors of their police wagons (unfortunately, it is the only way to get home -through the middle of Exeter City – after a pleasant night spent in mainly gentlemanly company at the Bishop Blaize pub – Kate could not make it – work priorities). Maybe my naivete feature has not twigged that there are honourable and less than honourable members of Her Majesty’s Constabulary – I am certain, on having found out about it the hard way, that there are various mafia rings in this city. How about this for a try-out? – the King of Hearts is not so much a display of refinement, but more a state of having to deal with difficult emotional situations – where does conscience lie? (Gurdjieff said that it would be as though one would experience everything one felt about something, all at once). I remember something I said to one of the female nurses who were taking my blood-pressure during the police arrest and cell-endurance time –
“This is to ensure there be no more pain for women in childbirth”. A strange remark, but there has to be some reason why all the other bi-polars around can get away with having ‘shrinks as a hobby’, but I get shoved through police internment and holding cells in the ‘asylum’ and having to endure the company (in repetetive modes) of those psychotics who do not take it upon themselves to better their predicament. As John Nash states in ‘A Beautiful Mind’ – “You see; I do see things and hear things – but they are like appetites of the mind in which I no longer wish to indulge”. Obviously, he was a paranoid-schizophrenic and I am a manic-depressive (meaning that there are mood-swings which influence the way I see the world and not necessarily visually or auditorily hallucinating) but I should not let attitudes to my ‘play’ to upset my ‘balance’, as you so nicely put it. I owe it to society; I owe it to you guys on the blog and, of course, I owe it to myself, as the person with which I have to live. Thank you all for your care…..Nigel.

285. X-ray - June 28, 2009

276. in2it – June 27, 2009


Thanks, in2it. Looks like Burton getting famous worldwide, although not in the way he thought to be.

286. dragon - June 28, 2009

Almighty Burton speaks with …..

PS wikileaks, a wonderful thing, you make my heart swing!

PS Nigel, Great to have you back on blogstage!

287. arthur - June 28, 2009


I understand your ‘eye-ball’ to ‘eye-ball’ contact with the police. I dont know about the ‘King of Hearts’ knowing all together but it is unnerving when they come unannounced.

Especially when they want to come into your house for fingerprinting and you with felonies growing in the living room. Know what I mean? MAYBE, the King of Hearts does think fast.

In 1977 a “teaching house” (ha-ha) occupied space in Houston, Texas. The “leaders” of such was James B. and Margret Martial.
One of the fools that joined that center was Thomas who worked in the Space Industry.

I was recently told that he dropped dead in Carpenteria, California about two years ago. I liked fool Thomas and want to know if he was still in the Fellowship of Crazies two years ago?

288. rock that boat - June 28, 2009

That is brilliant that the FOF Board Warning Letter is so available:

I recently spoke to a student- who is still in- who told me the FOF
is now a sinking ship. Salaries have dropped an other $100 per
month, from 3 hundred something to 2 hundred something.
RB is currently in Egypt overseeing the building-construction of his new villa there. The food at the Galleria-Academy is lousy, and there are an enormous amount of presentations to raise money, but with few takers. The blog will be a source of comfort for those still in who will finally see the direness of their situation, and take those brave steps necessary to move on with their lives.

289. Panoritsa - June 28, 2009

Rock that boat, 288

Thank you for bringing up this issue. For me, this forum was an eye opener. There are so many pages that describe what was really going on in the Fellowship of Friends. I hope when individuals who are still within the closed doors will look for some connection with common sense and reality will come here. I know that for myself sending a request to the Greater Fellowship was very difficult, because I was too afraid to show that I really had my doubts about the Cult.

I do hope this open forum, where you do not need to log in in order to read what is written, will assist some poor souls who are still trapped in the prison of the Fellowship of Friends. It is just a first step to take hold of their own lives.

290. sallymcnally - June 28, 2009

For all repressed people this is a very sweet little video done recently that advocates solidarity.

291. Bares Reposting - June 28, 2009

290. sallymcnally:
Stand By Me:

Playing For Change:
Song Around the World
“Stand By Me”

Nearly 12 million views and counting – for just that one posting.
Then there are many other video venues besides YouTube.
Then there’s the website:

When you get to YouTube, do a seach on:
‘Playing For Change’
– Playing For Change:
Peace Through Music Trailer
– Playing For Change:
Song Around the World
“Don’t Worry”
– PBS Bill Moyers interview:
One Love – Interview + an Unforgettable Rendition of “One Love”
– Playing For Change:
Song Around the World “One Love”

292. veramente - June 28, 2009

288 Rock the Boat

…Salaries have dropped an other $100 per
month, from 3 hundred something to 2 hundred something…


RB is currently in Egypt overseeing the building-construction of his new villa there. The food at the Galleria-Academy is lousy, ….

293. nigel harris price - June 28, 2009

292 veramente

Get Burton quickly, before he leaves the United States, which will make things difficult in extradicting him to stand trial, AS WE ALL KNOW HE MUST. Nigel

294. in2it - June 28, 2009

292. veramente.

I sense you’re calling attention to how large expenditures (e.g., spending money on a villa in Egypt) is causing more of a burden for the average joe in the FOF. True. It could be that the amount of money being spent is even more than usual, but expenditures have ALWAYS been a problem in the FOF. What ‘rock that boat’ seems to be saying is that it’s not just the expenditures anymore — it’s also the decreased amount of money coming in. People keep coming on the blog to say the membership numbers are at about 1,600 and so forth (without citing any source for their information)… The more I see that, the more I’m skeptical. I think it’s more likely the numbers are much lower than that, or that more and more people are given special treatment to pay almost nothing. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Burton is dipping into his reserves (somewhere) because “teaching payments” have decreased by a huge amount, and fund raising has also decreased dramatically.

For the entire life of the FOF, the money kept coming in in large amounts… perhaps not so anymore.

295. Jomo Piñata - June 28, 2009

“Tell old Pharaoh: Let My people go.”

296. X-ray - June 29, 2009

We’re clicks away from putting Burton behind bars.
Please send petition here:



Franchise Tax Board


Department of Justice
Office of the Attorney General, State of California
Office of Victims’ Services

U.S. Department of Labor

Child Abuse
Childhelp’s National Child Abuse Hotline
800-4-A-CHILD (800-422-4453)

Office of the Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160 ( new number )

ICSA – International Cultic Studies Association
P.O. Box 2265
Bonita Springs, FL 34133
Phone: 239.514.3081
Fax: 305.393.8193
e-mail: mail@icsamail.



KCRA 3 Television


297. Panoritsa - June 29, 2009

Are some fellowship members involved in researching and understand in order to put into practice the mummification process? ☥☥☥☥☥☥

I wouldn’t be surprised…

I am pretty sure Burton and a few of his “clever” guys have enough money.

The villa in Luxor is said to be a project of E. Mi… Others are paying again for a man who hardly took any responsibility in his life. But “suffered” so much…

No illusions. There are current members who will support Burton till the end.

298. dragon - June 29, 2009

… a funeral procession ; a priest officiating, followed by mourners and by a servant carrying sepulchral tablet, in front of which Anubis supports the mummy of pharaoh R.E.B. the mourning boys and the royal court kneeling before it.

Facing the mummy stand two priests holding instruments connected with the ceremony of “opening of the mouth”; behind them is a priest burning incense and pouring out a libation before a table of offerings.

Below this : a cow and a calf for sacrifice , men bringing a haunch of beef as offering, a funeral coffer, a flower stand and a table with instruments connected with the ceremony of opening the mouth…

299. ton - June 29, 2009

“Dear friend,

In an attempt to prevent me from talking to others about my
experiences with him, Robert has forbidden me to come to Renaissance (or Apollo). I write this letter for those who are interested.

When I came to Renaissance in the spring of 1986 I had been in the
school for one year. In the center I had been told numerous stories
by the center directors as to how a great, almost saintly person the
Teacher was. Having come to the Fellowship needy of emotional and spiritual support I was willing to believe these reports at face

After a few weeks of living at Renaissance, following a heavy
drinking ‘symposium’, Robert took me inside of one of the Academy rooms and wanted to have sex with me.

When I told him that I did not want this because I had no homosexual feelings, nor did I want to see myself assume those practices, Robert dismissed my arguments by saying that I should externally consider him as my teacher.

Partly out of fear for this ‘all powerful’ being, partly not to want
to feel guilty or judged, but largely because of the energy with
which Robert approached me, I was left with the feeling I had no

While Robert went about his business of trying to stimulate an orgasm from me which he was going to receive orally I pointed out to him that I was covering my face with my hands out of shame. Robert retorted that this was a good opportunity for work for me.

This was the beginning of my functioning as a sexual servant which lasted for several years.

In order to bear my plight I kept on telling myself that it was my
play to transform this kind of suffering and that learning selfless
servitude might eventually benefit my soul. I also tried to stimulate
in me the belief that since Robert was conscious, being in his
presence had to basically be a good thing.

Robert tried to assure me that what was going on between us was the wish of C-Influence, and that the worst thing I could do was to
resist their plans. He also explained his attraction to men not as
homosexuality but as the result of his being an angel and a cosmos above men, just like men’s attraction to women stemmed, he would add, from men being in a cosmos above women.

It was when I eventually met a woman (soon to become my wife) who cared enough to point out to me that it was up to me to take
responsibility for my life, that I found the third force needed to
let Robert know that I did not want to continue serving him in this

He got very upset over this and from one day to the other what he had called ‘love’ turned into hostility, resentment, and a total ignoring of us as his students. It was here that it became really clear to me that I had never been a ‘friend’ or a ‘student’ but had been used for one sole purpose: Robert’s sexual gratification. There had been no love, let alone conscious love.

In the five years that followed we have never been allowed to have
dinner with our ‘Teacher’, nor were we given consideration when we asked for help during great medical expenses while working on salary at Renaissance.

During this period Robert did, however, call me numerous times on the phone asking me if I would again ‘come in his mouth’ (his words), for which he would, among other things, offer to pay my voice lessons, knowing that these were important to me and that I had a hard time finding funding for them. Needless to say, at this point I never as much responded to his requests or ‘offers’.

Much effort has been directed towards covering up information such as which is disclosed in this letter. There has also been a collective buffering among Fellowship members as regards Robert’s practices.

How can people who pride themselves in having evolved levels of being tolerate this? I am convinced that many of the prevailing attitudes in the Fellowship are based on religious faith, such as those regarding unverifiable issues like Robert’s consciousness; the
Fellowship being an arc [sic] for a new civilization; the division of
humanity into ‘students’ and ‘life people’, and the alleged spiritual
superiority of Fellowship members over non-members.

I hope that you will have the courage to challenge your attitudes and see them for what they are. For the sake of your evolution.

Your friend,

(*name withheld by request)”

excerpt from:


300. ton - June 29, 2009
301. veramente - June 29, 2009

294 in 2it

The more I see that, the more I’m skeptical. I think it’s more likely the numbers are much lower than that, or that more and more people are given special treatment to pay almost nothing. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Burton is dipping into his reserves (somewhere) because “teaching payments” have decreased by a huge amount, and fund raising has also decreased dramatically.
yes, I heard that too, current members with poor finances are allowed to continue their fof membership at almost no cost. This seems a bit desperate. But for now the show must go on.
I hate to think that RB could escape in Egypt without paying his dues to the INS, IRS, and criminal justice. He is not alone of course, he has got lots of helpers who could be facing charges for breaking the law and covering up for him and themselves in many ways.

302. arthur - June 29, 2009

About 1976 a Fellowship of Friends ‘teaching house’ was located in north Houston, Texas.

I having no car hitched a ride to a “prospective student” meeting with someone who had no interest in what was to follow. He had no “magnetic center” as they used to say.

On the way we smoked one powerful marijuana cigarette. Needless to say our “perceptions” were clarified. Afterwards, he related how “weird” it was and said, “no thanks” to further involvement.
Whereas I being steeped in “Fourth Way” literature found it “enlightening” only because “they” seemed to be efficiently organized.

Six months later I joined.

Being convinced of the “truthfulness” of what was being taught I also became a zealot promoting this homosexual cult. Convinced must be related to the snake oil condition of “hook, line and sinker”.

I told a friend of mine how true this cult was and how he could also benefit from all its knowledge and understanding. He having a “budding’ magnetic center.

A year later he took a girlfriend to a “prospective student” meeting and related to me how he and his girlfriend were not “convinced” of what they were subjected to and laughed it off.

This friend of mine has a interesting history. He is a Middle Easterner and at one time a member of a foreign organization. Unlike me he no longer is a debauchee but spends his time with family and prays five times a day.

Next time he comes to the USA I’m going to ask him what he thinks about a practicing Homosexual that has ruined lives living like the Sultan of the Desert.

303. elena - June 29, 2009

Another Name,

We have a saying that goes something like, it’s easier to see the splinter in another’s eye than the beam in one’s own. You and I seem to be playing that game! and most people everywhere do so otherwise it wouldn’t be as popular a saying as it is. It’s the same with the Fellowship: they think the beam is in “life people” and can’t see the Sequoia across their eyes! and sometimes the blog is like that too.

About the word “affection” I’m beginning to “Spangle” and will probably start making a lot of mistakes like that. I meant being “affected” which is probably another Spanglicism and we use it to mean when people put too much emphasis on what they are saying. I’ve probably been a master at it so it won’t be difficult for you to look at the beam in my eye. What I see in your presentation is that the emphasis on the non-violence is a put on act that pretends to be better than others: vanity. There’s nothing wrong about the theory, like the Fellowship, it’s the practice that is far from the bull’s eye. The Fellowship is so corrupt though that even the theory is corrupt, that is, Mr. Haven’s made up bible adapted to “Robert the God”. If you look at my power act it pretends to impose itself on others. Fortunately others just shake it off and insult me. My gratitude again. It’s interesting that in that “overdosed” behavior, (I can’t think of the word in English), the feature and the agenda reveal themselves.

On the men’s conversation you had mentioned that Abe’s subject wasn’t as interesting to you and I pointed out that the men on the blog tend to talk about such subjects and seldom get “personal”. In the patriarchal society in which we live that very detached and apparently “objective” attitude prevails but it is one of the things that I presently find seriously questionable. It is like a pattern that repeats itself in different levels. While there is a tendency in women to never quite reach the social, there is a tendency in men to never quite reach the intimate, the private, which is an aspect of the tremendous imbalance we seem to be in and at the same time of the wonderful balance that we seem to keep, not allowing each other the extremes.

In Robert Burton and Girard Haven’s extreme, it is interesting that they built up a society totally designed to provide young men to Robert. You have a gay man with a lot of charisma and dominance and a heterosexual male with a military background supporting him and between the two and the many that played their part, build up a completely private society perfectly conditioned to provide for Robert Burton’s sexuality. For what else is the Fellowship? The System? The Art? The People? The winery? Everything was simply conditioned to play its part within the brothel.

I continue to find it fascinating that men tend to be unwilling to provide such support to their own wives or themselves but were ever so ready to provide it to another man, a gay man. It is important that it is a gay man because of the feminine side that comes with it. As if their emotionality had surface but upside down and backwards like most things are in our times.

The extremes of both gay males or females are also very interesting because we shed light on areas that regular men and women do not. How exactly the society drives us into those extremes or how we drive the society into such cults is also worth looking into but what is clear is that an individual is nothing but an introverted tapestry of the world s/he lives in and a society is nothing but an extroverted tapestry of the individuals that compose it, hence the importance of understanding the world one lives in. If one can encompass the surrounding, the individual makes perfect sense and the possibility of “black-goating” him or her out and lynching them runs out. A dimension of consciousness, conscience and compassion ensues.

I also continue to find it amazing how easily we women submitted to the third and fourth-class treatment of the Fellowship. It is a lot less surprising that men succumbed to the temptation of being treated like women in the cult. For they were dressed up like Barbies and made to play the part of passive men ready to get laid but at the same time the “macho superior being” was handled out. Women never stood a chance. It would be very interesting to hear other women talk about what in us allowed for the blatant humiliation for so many years? And what in men allowed for the seduced rape. Perhaps the fact that everyone was humiliated one way or another made us equals? Is it not interesting that by annihilating the sense of one’s self in all the members, we completely supported his majesty? He annihilated us as individiual but granted small positions of power that seduced those who considered themselves the inner circle. What did it mean to be in Robert Burton’s private sexual inner circle and what in Robert Burton’s cult inner circle? What was that separation about? Why did it work in our already schizophrenic psychology?

Mr. Obama is handling a very interesting image of integrity in all fronts which is very rare in the patriarchal tradition. Not only in terms of family and society but in terms of the fact that such things matter. The familiarity with which he is inviting the population to act in their own sphere is also significant.

Thank you all for your posts.

304. elena - June 29, 2009


Thank you for reposting that letter. Had we already read it or are they all so alike? I hadn’t seen it when I posted the previous but one seems to confirm the other. Thanks.

305. fofblogmoderator - June 29, 2009

296 is new and 299 (IMO) is recommended reading

306. arthur - June 29, 2009


My apologies for making this public. I would send you a private E-mail if I could. “My Page” has been exorcised from GF so I cant respond there. The only e-mail I managed to save is from a woman in Columbia, South America. Thanks anyways and much success to you.

307. fofblogmoderator - June 29, 2009
308. Cathie - June 29, 2009

for elena, whoever you are

a tightrope walker
in a traveling circus
no net
the audience, breathless,
gasps as she nearly falls…

recovers her balance,
pirouettes and
dazzles them with her brilliance
time and again

309. X-ray - June 30, 2009

299. ton – June 29, 2009

‘In an attempt to prevent me from talking to others about my
experiences with him, Robert has forbidden me to come to Renaissance’

‘Robert took me inside of one of the Academy rooms and wanted to have sex with me.’

‘Robert dismissed my arguments by saying that I should externally consider him as my teacher.’

‘While Robert went about his business of trying to stimulate an orgasm from me which he was going to receive orally I pointed out to him that I was covering my face with my hands out of shame. Robert retorted that this was a good opportunity for work for me.’

‘While Robert went about his business of trying to stimulate an orgasm from me which he was going to receive orally I pointed out to him that I was covering my face with my hands out of shame.’

‘This was the beginning of my functioning as a sexual servant which lasted for several years.’

‘In the five years that followed we have never been allowed to have
dinner with our ‘Teacher’, nor were we given consideration when we asked for help during great medical expenses while working on salary at Renaissance.’

‘During this period Robert did, however, call me numerous times on the phone asking me if I would again ‘come in his mouth’ (his words), for which he would, among other things, offer to pay my voice lessons, knowing that these were important to me and that I had a hard time finding funding for them.’

‘Much effort has been directed towards covering up information such as which is disclosed in this letter. There has also been a collective buffering among Fellowship members as regards Robert’s practices.’

‘Robert tried to assure me that what was going on between us was the wish of C-Influence, and that the worst thing I could do was to
resist their plans.’

‘He also explained his attraction to men not as
homosexuality but as the result of his being an angel and a cosmos above men, just like men’s attraction to women stemmed, he would add, from men being in a cosmos above women.’

‘He got very upset over this and from one day to the other what he had called ‘love’ turned into hostility, resentment, and a total ignoring of us as his students. It was here that it became really clear to me that I had never been a ‘friend’ or a ’student’ but had been used for one sole purpose: Robert’s sexual gratification. There had been no love, let alone conscious love.’


310. elena - July 1, 2009

Just got this. Seems worth sharing.

There are no two sides to the debate over indefinitely detaining individuals without charge or trial.

Indefinite detention means allowing the government to imprison people for an unspecified period of time without charging them with a crime and without holding a trial.

That would fundamentally alter the character of our democracy. It would also gut the very meaning of the Fifth Amendment which guarantees due process. In short, it would be a human rights disaster.

The ACLU has been gearing up for a big legislative battle to stop any and all proposals to create a new system of indefinite detention. But now, news reports reveal a more immediate threat.

According to an article in the Washington Post last week, a strategy is taking shape in the White House that would authorize indefinite detention — not through legislation, but with a presidentially signed executive order. And just hours ago, the president’s press secretary said they would now go through Congress. One thing is clear: the Obama administration is seeking the power to indefinitely detain individuals without charge or trial.

What is also clear is that whether through executive order or legislation, indefinite detention is un-American.

311. rock that boat - July 6, 2009

There does not seem to be much discussion going on lately,
but the blog has succeeded in doing this one amazing thing…
turning over a rock, exposing all the brainwashing and disgusting, horrendous, vile, creepy crawly behavior of RB and his associates. The associates names arenow world-wide-web exposed, thanks to the release of the “FOF Boar Warning” Springfield letter. So far so good FRIENDS!

312. Robert Earl Burton - November 9, 2010

I sory / I loves you.

313. Robert Earl Burton - November 9, 2010

I sorry I Loves you

Sorry comments are closed for this entry

%d bloggers like this: