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Fellowship Of Friends Discussion, Part 71 April 20, 2009

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.

Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

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For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

To visit “Pathway To Presence”, the newly created web site for recruiting new members to the Fellowship; http://www.pathwaytopresence.org

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban or a leave of absence from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/



1. veramente - April 20, 2009

2. ton - April 20, 2009

if you’re still reading here, and for what it’s worth, in the past i’ve ‘sampled’ a few of the marketed ‘anti’ drugs (‘anti-psychotic, anti-depressives’ etc, e.g. ‘paxil’ and etc)… they change the ‘metabolism’ and especially sleep and sex-drive patterns… but i found, not for the better, only and just changed… sometimes when things ‘seem’ desperate (at least to ‘the patient’) it’s all about change…. and so that’s what’s prescribed by the ‘practioner’… if t’were me, i’d listen more to “My Holistic Therapist student and Wikka farmer’s wife (who) could clue me in on weaning-off synthetics (and) on to naturals….” but that’s just my opinon and you should by all means take it with salt…. in homeopathy that’s natricum muriaticum…. (maybe 30c).

3. Another Name - April 20, 2009

Dear Tatayna

What I would recommend to you and your son is the book/ tapes (audio books) of Klara McLaren. She voiced my understanding the best in her 2nd tape of Being an Empath.

Here I will write some excerpts that I still remember:

Klara calls depression the ingenious indignation or a brilliant stop sign of the soul.
Depression the energy just leaves us, we are going into the wrong direction we did not listen to other emotions, and pointed out that we did not see where we were going on a path, that was not ours. Depression is a cloud and has a relation to elation. Sometimes we fly high sometimes we are very low. Depression is an emergency break, a reason to stop and listen to where your energy went and leads you back to your own soul. Depression is a sign of your own brilliants. In this time when we enter into the wrong relationships, wrong jobs, wrong situation is your stop sign to come back

Klara McLaren describes depression and suicidal feelings very well and obviously has gone through it.

Is your son depressed. Get The North start from Martha Beck. One of the best descriptions how to get to “be true to yourself””, very practical.

Klara Mclaren:
Suicidal urge; Asks for liberty from the life we are living, it does not want to end our live, it does not want the end our physical live. Something wants to live a life that is more correlating to your inner real self/soul, it want to lives. It appears who we are deepest in our hearts and what we become, shows us what we really do not want…

Suicidal urge appears, arises when our lives endangers our soul our real inner live. Seek out a friend or get help or call the suicidal hotline. There is a message. The emotions are trying to inform you about a message. An inner message.
The question is what needs to die is our falseness, our emptiness, our lies towards our selves.

What must end now and what must be killed, this draining behavior, this weakness, this question why can you not do your art….
There is a deeper urge that you want to hear. The emotion themselves are not twisted it is our ability to listen to them and we can not recognize them.

What needs to die Is our falseness, loveless ness or emptiness?

The suicidal question comes from the deepest primordial searches in our life. You have forgotten who you are. Your suicidal tendencies will stand up for your own way and will help you to follow your goals, to get your own life back.

If you listen to your darker emotions they will lead you back to your inner self and brings you back to your joy and happiness, your path. By not going hearing those dark emotions we can not hear part of us that needs to be heard.

Good luck for you and your beautiful son. He needs much love and acceptance and positive confirmation…

4. Another Name - April 20, 2009

Woooh Elena

What a wording…………

“You would only need to walk up the stairs of your knowledge and down the road of your programming and again across the rivers of your conscience to crash against your consciousness and touch the core of that statement to objective reality!”

My consciousness and conscience goes through emotions of anger, sadness, fear and deep breathing seems so connected. These seem to be my “guardian angels” when I do not protecting my boundaries.

And on objectivity…

I see a white/ blue screen in front of me. I hear tapping on a keyboard, a smell from my shirt, being laundered recently and my shampoo from my wet hair around me. My belly moves up with every breath I take.

Goodnight dear all of you.

5. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

4. And on objectivity…

I see a white/ blue screen in front of me. I hear tapping on a keyboard, a smell from my shirt, being laundered recently and my shampoo from my wet hair around me. My belly moves up with every breath I take.

Yes, objective. What is… what is in front of you, what is with out value judgement. Neither adding or subtracting… is.

6. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

And I would say that nothing else has any real value because the value of our additions and subtractions are askew from what is- distortion…unreliable… unstable (reality (what is) is the rock that Jesus spoke to us about building our “house” upon. And what is our house? The principles we rest on to live our lives through.

It’s wearying reading posts that speak only “against.” Or numbly psychoanalyzing things one doesn’t have the ability to understand- casting one’s line out into the sphere of mentalities, drawing up frail victims of language to define your ugliness. Mind, mind, mind. Going nowhere. Please- what do you believe “in”? Contradict no more against what you contradict against. What- regardless of school or philosophy or Robert Burton, or student or ex-student- do you stake your life upon? What DOES have meaning for you? Aren’t you weary of talking “against” what you are convinced has no meaning for you anymore?

If you believe there is no objective truth, live your life by that… talk to people as though nothing is real- see how far you get. If you are uncertain, let uncertainty be your God, and live neither here nor there, walking left and then right, uncertain of either path, humbly cautioning yourself of either gain.

Or if you believe all paths are righteous then FREAKIN’ LEAP! Jump into the pond of your next delight certain that all is God, all is Good, and all will inevitably deliver you- what ever deliverence is you best freedom. This, I am afraid, is the hardest path.

But consciousness- oh, man, what a humble word. That Gurdjieff offers us up to such a humble achievement- simply to be conscious in this world. That does not bode well for us. It is so simple- what is? All thinking, feeling, being, can rely on this question? No one cares about “what isn’t.” Let’s focus on that former thing- it goes somewhere, it’s meaty, has substance, is not blindly antagonistic.

But, maybe you wish that the purpose of your life is to antagonize, to point the finger so loudly that other’s may hear. To burn in the passion of that.

Strangely, I am feeling antagonistic, now… and what an ugly, dirty feeling it is. It includes within it a keen self hatred, antagonism. Remember, thrusting the finger outward, we pierce our selves, thrust away ourselves from the meniscus of reality we are pressed against.

Let me say this now to my God, whom I adore.

7. WhaleRider - April 20, 2009

I am not in a position to question your hold on “reality” based upon what you write on this blog; heck, I’d recommend you write here whatever you want if it helps get you through the nighty night nigel, my friend.

If in rereading your posts you feel you are approaching your limits, then you probably are, and you have done yourself a great service in writing and expressing yourself instead of holding back or going completely “postal”.

Nigel, I’d expect that given your circumstances, one or two all nighters brushing against the ceiling of the heavens during an up cycle would seem something within the range of “normal” behavior for such a creative bloke as you, don’t you reckon?

Who am I to talk “down” Michael Angelo from the scaffolding when you have to crawl through your own shit in the “down” cycle to get up there? I probably don’t have half the mental stamina you do while you are “up” there…so I won’t be of much help, you’d get me pretty wired and I’d have a hard time getting to sleep. A close local friend with the same or similar illness would be more appropriate for you to call; maybe the two of you could go for a midnight stroll after the pubs close.

I will do this for you, nigel, I will hold you in my heart and mind as a whole person despite your extremes, just as any good friend would.

Trust yourself. You have a beautiful mind.

8. WhaleRider - April 20, 2009

Fence Person:
“It’s wearying reading posts that speak only “against”.”

So who is acting numb?

Unless you confront evil behavior by speaking out against it, the behavior will continue to flourish. If not us, then who? Ex-cult followers of the FOF happen to be in the best postion to do that and this blog is an excellent medium to inform the unsuspecting public.

I can guarantee you that what you read about our common “dirty little secret” here is a but a narrow window of the rich lives of those who post.

“What do I believe in?”

Spiritual virtuosity for all.

Have you picked up your copy of the Guru Papers yet?

9. Crouching Tiger - April 20, 2009


You said something quite beautiful, although I think you may have said it by accident!……….. “All thinking, feeling, being, can rely on this question?” All thinking, feeling, being can rely on a question, yes. They have to.

The blog is largely about scraping away crap to find the gleaming metal underneath. There’s a lot of scraping to be done, but I don’t feel it’s grounds for you to become impatient with people or lose your faith in human nature. Forget about feeling superior to others because you don’t want to indulge your ‘negative emotions’, and ask yourself the question again….

10. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

9. That last sentence regarding the use of negative emotions in this blog was good.

11. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

9. well put.

12. nigel harris price - April 20, 2009

whalerider/crouching tiger

Thanks for your “reformation glittering o’er my fault” (Henry IV, PT I). A nourishing, and not too stabbing-dreamyfied sleep did come to me eventually in the early hours, and I feel very, very refreshed. Thanks, also, to ton and yesri baba for their help in “that which hath no foil to set it off” (same play, same passage of Shakespeare). As regards that fence-person, who wants antagonism – “I’ll so offend, to make offence a skill, redeeming time when men think least I will” (W.S. Henry IV, Pt I)…..

Today I will concentrate on the practicalities of my teaching business and the special commssion for The Honourable Tania Harcourt Coose (no bull – that name!)…..ground, ground and “bright metal on a sullen ground”…Nigel

13. Yesri Baba - April 20, 2009

“The blog is largely about scraping away crap to find the gleaming metal underneath. There’s a lot of scraping to be done,…”

Put down that scraper we’re hauling in a bulldozer for fenceboy.

14. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

13. Surely a tea spoon will do, Yesri. A little one.

15. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

12. Nigel, I wonder if you have ever in your life read a blog post the way the writer intended it.

16. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

my 15. post is regarding 12. “As regards that fence-person, who wants antagonism “

17. nigel harris price - April 20, 2009

15 One from the fence

How the hell would you know, you hyper-subjective, father-figure-seeking freak!? My poem, written by Walt Whitman…..

“He is the answerer,
What can be answered he answers, and what cannot be answered he shows how it cannot be answered.

A man is a summons and challenge,
It is vain to skulk…..Do you hear that mocking and laughter? Do you hear the ironical echoes?”

(Song of the Answerer)

18. One from the fence - April 20, 2009

17. You’ve just illucidated my point.

19. Yesri Baba - April 20, 2009

“Strangely, I am feeling antagonistic, now…”

“and what an ugly, dirty feeling it is. It includes within it a keen self hatred, antagonism.”

“And I would say that nothing else has any real value because the value of our additions and subtractions are askew from what is- distortion…unreliable… unstable”

There’s one spoonful. Damn, this is going to take a while.

20. James Mclemore - April 20, 2009

Fence Person

Whale Rider said

“I can guarantee you that what you read about our common “dirty little secret” here is a but a narrow window of the rich lives of those who post.”

Yes, it appears you are making huge assumptions about some of those who post here. Do you really think you are seeing the whole of someone’s emotional / spiritual life in the words that they choose to post on this blog? Just think about it for a moment. You are seeing a tiny bit of their lives, and hearing only one voice that they are choosing to speak from. I have said before to you that some of the questions it feels like you are trying to ask are better suited to the Greater Fellowship. You asked,

“Please- what do you believe “in”?” (and) “What- regardless of school or philosophy or Robert Burton, or student or ex-student- do you stake your life upon? What DOES have meaning for you?”

I begin to wonder if you have an agenda of some sort in asking those questions here, while sort of insinuating that the people here have never asked themselves those sorts of things.

Some of the same people who post here (although you may not know who some of them are), may post replies to your questions if you posed them on the GF, and they might be a bit different than what you get here, because you are asking those questions at the same time as you criticize people and make wild guesses about their life, and appear to be questioning the purpose (which is essentially pretty simple) of the blog.
For some reason you come here and then you say,

“Strangely, I am feeling antagonistic, now…”

“and what an ugly, dirty feeling it is. It includes within it a keen self hatred, antagonism.”

Fence Person, I have been here for almost 50 pages and very, very seldom have I thought that I sensed any of the posters feeling ‘ugly’ and ‘dirty’ about themselves with ‘keen self hatred’. I think you may be engaging in some projection. If it is not that, it might just be better for your emotional health at the present time to stay away from here if it truly does evoke those feelings. There may be better places for you to go if you wish to try and see what is underneath those feelings. You know there are lots of former students who apparently do not care for the blog, and that is o.k.too.

21. in2it - April 20, 2009

No, he said. It would make him discontented with Grover’s Corners if he went traipsing about Europe. Better leave well enough alone, he says.

– from Thornton Wilder’s “Our Town”

On a related note, reposting this gem from Crouching Tiger, #290 on page 70 (congrats, Tiger!) …

The reason I ask is that one realization has become increasingly clear since I left….

The fellowship has an inhibiting effect on anything that might become your passion in Life – a profession, a relationship, a vocation etc… The attitude of superiority to Life doesn’t encourage you to fulfil your role in the world. As Burton often repeats in various ways, “We are people who are average at everything except self-remembering!” And of course, who can judge whether you are succeeding at self-remembering? The only and final authority in the school is ………Burton himself!

A couple of weeks ago I won a national book award, about eighteen months since I left the fellowship. I wondered why I had waited so long! My feeling now is that fulfilling my role in Life, and doing it as well as I possibly can, is an expression of willingness and the right attitude in my spiritual life. I don’t feel the two can really be in opposition, but I know I would never have tried anything like that whilst in the fellowship. I wouldn’t have given it my best shot and risked failure, because I was too smugly content with “what I have that no-one else can see!”, my ‘riches of self-remembering’. I simply would not have had any reason to push in all my chips, to expend myself fully in what I do.

The more you expend yourself honestly in any endeavour, the less room for narcissism. Production and narcissism don’t mix.

22. ton - April 20, 2009

ya ct what is the name of the book? i’d like to google it.

#6 fence sitter

i’ve been on a few fences myself and know from experience that it’s not a comfortable place to be, i feel for you and wish you the best. what i take from your post; mostly you express your antagonism toward what you think of as the prevailing ‘antagonistic’ view being expressed here…. go figure. when you come down from the fence you’ll see, taking a stand or otherwise making a statement against corruption IS a protagonistic act….

23. elena - April 20, 2009

Crouching Tiger,

I didn’t have a computer and was glad not to wondering what insults would come from the last post! There was no hurry so the surprise is great when you say I could bring one of those prizes home which I don’t even know about nor have ever imagined what to send.

You ask what I’m betting on and if it isn’t yet clear to you after writing more than anyone else here I must deduct that I’m a pretty lousy writer! Or you a pretty lousy reader!! Congratulations though for winning your prize. I often much enjoy the way you present things.

As for what I’m willing to bet on there are two aspects to the question! One in relation to myself and I’m hoping to disappear in us and one in relation to us (human beings) and I’m hoping you appear more fully in me. What else is there to bet on? One day it would be good to find a decent job and not worry about the debts my family can’t pay. My family, or the one I picked up again after thirty years! They left the first fifteen and then I joined the Fellowship the remaining fifteen. It’s an interesting adventure to backtrack through the labyrinths of the heart in a house in which the half of the house in which my mother and us, her children, lived, has been wiped out! It lives on like an amputated leg in which the memories move within the inner spaces I once knew as life. It wasn’t our childhood, we lived in many houses before, it was the only serious attempt my mother made to live a “family” what got wiped out. Some men have a strange way of dealing with what they can’t face.

The Fellowship? I’m afraid the Fellowship belongs to my past and it is with great sadness that I acknowledge the fact that it is still so many people’s present. At this point all I have left is a sense of gratitude for being free of it. “There is no ill that doesn’t bring something good” is a poor translation of the saying but after two years of throwing up about it, it’s over for me. I could still rant if I look for the emotions but there are better emotions to indulge in.
And as Ghandi said, there are a million things worth dying for and not one worth killing for, so hopefully I’ll find someone worth fighting with in the near future.

Nigel, I’m with Ton in this one and so many others if I had had the chance! and not with Whalerider again although I much enjoy the Whale he likes to ride! Congratulations for the second part of the video, it’s so good to see them speaking.

Back to Nigel. Be your own hero, then we can talk!!! but thanks for boosting the ego, it much appreciates it at times. The formula I’ve used is: Don’t express it. Don’t speak about going up or down, go up and down and hold your self either way. As soon as you tell others about it the up goes down and the down drowns you. People love watching how others sink or float. Rely on yourself in personal issues and on others in social issues even if the Fellowship almost destroyed that trust and the blog is successful in succeeding it. Maybe I should be grateful with the bloggers for having understood that there is a beautiful boundary between the personal and the social that had gotten completely washed away by seventeen years of running behind a “Queen” who thought he was a God and a husband who thought he was the queen’s wife!!! You must understand I had reasons to be disrupted and wonder who was I when I got up in the morning!

FOFion, one day you must write a great comedy about our Fellowship life!

Remember when they use to tell us that instead of saying How are you we should greet with Who are you?

“Hi, how are you? Ooops, sorry, I meant, who are you?

Your husband of course dear, or is it his wife? never mind, as long as I’m present, thinking is unnecessary: “Be” “hold” your tongue dear, withold your tongue, you’re longer than the sequence, dear, I said, “hold” not “blog!”

Then at the table, he, she, us, or them sit robotically trying to be present until the waiter comes to the table and pronounces the magic word: “eat” from the sacred sequence and after the first bite runs back and takes away the plates because the queen is eager to “taste” the newly arrived angel-like “presence” from Russia, no, Italy, no, latin America, no, Oregon House or anywhere is good enough as long as it’s long enough and doesn’t speak!

I guess we could go on playing like this but I better get going. Have a great day! like my friend Heather liked to say!

24. elena - April 20, 2009

…f running behind a “Queen” who thought he was a God and a husband who thought he was the queen’s wife and they were both married to the Fellowship who they raped every day!!!

25. nigel harris price - April 20, 2009

18 One from the fence

Your point stinks! You expect God to wipe your sorry little ass with emotional balm. The God-State demands that you rise to Reality, Be Yourself and Serve Humanity. In the Bible, it states “God is not partial”. In other words, he is not ‘your God’, as you so demand, but is an entity to which to be aspired…..Nigel.

26. nigel harris price - April 20, 2009

25 is the symbolic number for Full Understanding (the Reality which the Angelic Beings have bequeathed me)…..Nigel.

27. nigel harris price - April 20, 2009

Whalerider, in whatever time-zone you pick up this post…..

I just wanted you to know that your Strength-Prayers worked. Today was a beautiful experience, despite my low-physical enrgy. Great support from my students and appreciation that I was applying Critical Analysis and Reflective Practice, as my teacher training prompted. A teacher has to test him/her self and see what effect he/she is having on the principal demand that learning must be taking place. I did not know, until recently going on the GF ‘In Memoriam’, that Eric Nightingale had passed into spirit. He, in his insistent Saturnine way, made me produce my own version of a ‘dolphin ring’ (all jewellers aspire to producing a dolphin ring). Did you know that cetaceans are an evolution ahead of us and that their place in our world indicates communication and gentle tribal protection? I thought I would pay tribute to Eric, and the poem “Remembrance”, which he sent me, by posting a poem of my own from 1995…..

Remembrance Revival

Opening “Thanksgiving” as it came to me,
Less scrap-shattered than when I had to toss it
Dusty behind ‘Enya’ and the ‘Celtic Hearts’:
Tapes and ear energy which only
Seemed to keep Leviathan rhythm
As the curved dark gave way
To sparkle-soft Joy again;
Reverberating cries of nights dream-punched
And 4 am route marches,
Because the body will not give
Up cracking mindful images.

Word-juggling was my forte
Until Michael stood to my right;
And the Belfast lady, (I heard five words
Enough to spot the love-steely face) on my left:
And there was warfare down.
Marines I knew and cadets,
Fidgeting impatience to the service-end;
And yet we all stood battle-thrown:-
“They grow not old as we who remain grow old”.

God of the human dismal sparkled redawn,
Come to us in this time of choked-
Possible remembrance and dignity;
Straining ourselves out of shambles,
Grinning out of bed-stuffed darkness.

(nhp) 1995

28. nigel harris price - April 20, 2009

Actually, I am not sure if the poem was “Remembrance” or “Thanksgiving”. Please bear with me…..Nigel.

29. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

26. Dude, are you kidding me? You think that just because you landed on a certain number… I can’t even say it.

30. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

19. Um… that’s pretty weird, yesri- seems like you’re shooting ducks in a barrel. Tell me intelligently, thoughtfully, if you will, what you could possibly have against any of those three statements… remember, thoughtfully, intelligently, okay?

31. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

22. Well, I definitely feel that my posts lose clarity, consistency and poignancy when I come from an antagonistic place. I feel this *should* bring to light a good point, that no one is able to see anything in full truth unless onesidedness, aggression, antagonism, etc. are transcended for the, well, the perspective of sunlight.

But some one before (crotching tiger?) said something about the expression of negativity here, and I got from it that it can have therapeutic value simply to vent, and it can also have the effect of distancing oneself emotionally from something that felt malificent to one, to one’s life, to one’s sanity, whether the ‘logic’ or degree of objectivity is all there or not. Has the effect of placing that malificent thing “over there, away” while latching one’s arms about others who are anchoring together in the same way. So I approached this wrong- I was looking for truth and only truth. I’m not *so* hurt any longer by my experiences there, although sometimes I fly into an internal rage about the FOF whence doing my laundry (always when I’m doing my laundry, for some reason, I have no idea why).

I will say that certain offerings here have truly helped me to de-identify with malificent identifications that were created by and of the FOF alone in me. Freedom is always good. Lately, it just feels good to be free of those identifications, and a voice in me says, “Ah, man, it’s been so long!” Sometimes, I perceive in my emotional center, after reading a poignant post, identifications flying from me like hundreds of reptilian scales being shed. But being angsty doesn’t work for me, I guess- pointing my finger- I always end up sounding like a fool. Perhaps I was seeing myself in others- projecting. I was looking for truth here, not therapy. But people use this blog for all kinds of reasons. And I began to take offense. Especially after speaking my truth only to have people clamp down on me senselessly like, yep, a crocodile.

32. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

30. Er, ducks in a barrel- probably a wrong metaphor- blindly stabbing at ducks crammed tightly into a blog post.

33. elena - April 21, 2009

Your voice is soft and clear,
Thank you for sharing One from the Fence!

34. elena - April 21, 2009

I meant for 31.

And both you and Nigel might consider posting all your posts in just one rather than spilling your selves in little bits. Form matters as much as content!

Surely I’ve spilled my self more than anyone else here but if we don’t learn from each other’s mistake we might as well move the hell out!

And as someone said to me not long ago, quality counts! Then we can rejoice in each other’s company!

35. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

Also, to clarify-I said, “I’m not *so* hurt any longer by my experiences there, although sometimes I fly into an internal rage about the FOF whence doing my laundry (always when I’m doing my laundry, for some reason, I have no idea why).”

I haven’t felt rage at the Fellowship in general, rather at individual people I felt entangled by. This is what comes out when, um, when I’m doing my laundry. People.

I’ve been so greatly bettered by my experience there, difficult and humiliating and a source of suffering that it was. I’m grateful for having lived through it. This is regardless of the quality of Robert’s teaching, so unhinge thy jaws, thou crocs.

36. James Mclemore - April 21, 2009

One From the Fence

Let me tell you first that this is not aimed at you personally (like those snapping crocodiles); but it was something in what you wrote (31) that did make me think of these lines by Bob Dylan. Remember however, that it is something, or rather more like a some ‘one’ that we all have inside, you know, in our own little ‘lonely crowd’.

“Standing next to me in this lonely crowd,
Is a man who swears he’s not to blame.
All day long I hear him shout so loud,
Crying out that he was framed.”
Bob Dylan (from I Shall Be Realeased)

Look for the child underneath that “Ah, man, it’s been so long!” and follow him for a while.

37. WhaleRider - April 21, 2009


“Two addictions (in the loose way the word is currently being used) are worth examining here because they illustrate the connection between love and control.

The first is sometimes referred as “love addiction”, meaning being addicted to “loving” someone is not good for you. “Religious addiction” is another recent addiction to the ever-expanding roster of addictions. This alludes to being addicted to certain kinds of emotional experiences that are part of religious contexts.

We deal with these two together because they share a similar dynamic. Actually, if one wanted to classify either under the rubric of addiction, it would be simpler and more correct to call them both an addiction to surrender.

The pleasures of surrender are more in line with the passions of abandonment-getting out of oneself through powerful boundary openings (like having your guru suddenly suck your dick). Here people can get hooked into wanting the repetition of feelings they call love or religious ecstasy. (by repeating the 30 canine commands?) These feelings most always occur in special contexts.

A usual context for generating religious ecstasy involves being part of a like-minded group whose main focus is surrendering to whatever higher power is mutually believed in.

The context of so-called love addiction also involves surrendering to a perceived higher power, but here the higher power resides in the “loved one”. This depends on an imbalance of power, with passion being aroused through the other being dominant.

The process of breaking someone’s will can induce surrender, and with it feelings of passion. Although the dominant person can feed off the other’s passion (literally, in Burton’s case) to satisfy a need for power and worship, there can be no real respect for someone so surrendered.

When surrender is one-sided, passion and power need to be repeatedly and mechanically induced (with viagra, perhaps?) Giving abuse which the other takes is a mechanical form of power can reignite the wanted feelings.

Love addiction occurs in a context of power; the passion it generates, no matter how it feels is really quite mechanical. “Love Addicts” need someone to surrender to, and taking abuse can reinforce the image of being in love. This is often coupled with wanting to save the abuser.

Here one is really addicted to a quality of passion that comes through surrendering; submitting to someone dominant is an easy, highly conditioned route to this. People repeat this scenario either with the same person or find themselves attracted to others who create the same context.

Of course, the dominant person gets addicted to power, which here is having someone so “in love” with you that you are worshipped no matter what. Tellingly, such imbalanced, addictive, modular relationships look like, and from the inside can feel like, unconditional love. This reveals a lot about the nature of the ideal itself, whereby one is supposed to love as if in a vacuum, regardless of how treated.

An aware life involves, among other things, balancing control and surrender, without getting mechanically driven by the pleasure of one to the exclusion of the other. Surrender does open boundaries and is a key to passion. But unless the results are healthy, which from our perspective means enhancing one’s sense of self-worth and self-trust, trying to keep one’s boundaries open in order to keep the passion going is self-destructive (and masochistic).

How does a divided person (stuck in higher self vs. lower self) move toward wholeness? If authoritarianism is at the root of the division, then being told what to do cannot be the answer to rebuilding self-trust.

The key to building self-trust in a changing world is the ability to utilize one’s own experience, including mistakes, to change. This can be done even if one does not initially trust oneself.

Self-trust is gained only by experiencing positive change through utilizing one’s feedback, which begins to break the loop where mistrust breeds mistrust. Being in the throes of an internal war (higher self vs. lower self) is one huge piece of feedback, not only that one’s life isn’t working, but also that one has a divided psyche whose parts thrive on the conflicts and drama engendered.

Moreover, being fragmented makes it nigh impossible to tell the difference between what one really wants and “shoulds”, which are often mistaken for true desires. Conflict, resistance, procrastination, and guilt can be indications of a divided self that acts differently than it thinks it ought.

Addiction has its own self-perpetuating momentum. Part of what makes addiction a closed system is the framework in which it is viewed by the person and society at large. Changing the basic framework can not only open the system, but begins to change a person’s capacity to read and integrate feedback.

Fortunately, once restructuring is set in motion, if it brings a more appropriate way of dealing with life, it too has a momentum of its own. Seeing the nature of the division in oneself, including how both sides need each other to exist, begins to defuse the power of each.

The inner battle depends on the dynamics between the two selves remaining unconscious, and so the more conscious one is of this split and it ramifications, the easier it is not to be mechanically driven by it.

Once one begins to see the way the closed system works, the parts being to lose their mysterious hold. The problem is that much of personality is built upon this division so that when both sides lose power, it can feel empty, and perhaps a bit like dying. Yet, it is only through a capacity to die to aspects of oneself that are not viable that any transformation ensues.

Substance abuse is also an area where the problems lie not in the substances, but in having people who are not whole.”

~The Guru Papers

38. Yesri Baba - April 21, 2009

30 One from the fence.

” Um… that’s pretty weird, yesri- seems like you’re shooting ducks in a barrel. Tell me intelligently, thoughtfully, if you will, what you could possibly have against any of those three statements… remember, thoughtfully, intelligently, okay?”

“. And on objectivity…

I see a white/ blue screen in front of me. I hear tapping on a keyboard, a smell from my shirt, being laundered recently and my shampoo from my wet hair around me. My belly moves up with every breath I take.

Yes, objective. What is… what is in front of you, what is with out value judgement. Neither adding or subtracting… is.

6. One from the fence – April 20, 2009
And I would say that nothing else has any real value because the value of our additions and subtractions are askew from what is- distortion…unreliable… unstable (reality (what is) is the rock that Jesus spoke to us about building our “house” upon. And what is our house? The principles we rest on to live our lives through.

It’s wearying reading posts that speak only “against.” Or numbly psychoanalyzing things one doesn’t have the ability to understand- casting one’s line out into the sphere of mentalities, drawing up frail victims of language to define your ugliness. Mind, mind, mind. Going nowhere. Please- what do you believe “in”? Contradict no more against what you contradict against. What- regardless of school or philosophy or Robert Burton, or student or ex-student- do you stake your life upon? What DOES have meaning for you? Aren’t you weary of talking “against” what you are convinced has no meaning for you anymore?

If you believe there is no objective truth, live your life by that… talk to people as though nothing is real- see how far you get. If you are uncertain, let uncertainty be your God, and live neither here nor there, walking left and then right, uncertain of either path, humbly cautioning yourself of either gain.

Or if you believe all paths are righteous then FREAKIN’ LEAP! Jump into the pond of your next delight certain that all is God, all is Good, and all will inevitably deliver you- what ever deliverence is you best freedom. This, I am afraid, is the hardest path.

But consciousness- oh, man, what a humble word. That Gurdjieff offers us up to such a humble achievement- simply to be conscious in this world. That does not bode well for us. It is so simple- what is? All thinking, feeling, being, can rely on this question? No one cares about “what isn’t.” Let’s focus on that former thing- it goes somewhere, it’s meaty, has substance, is not blindly antagonistic.

But, maybe you wish that the purpose of your life is to antagonize, to point the finger so loudly that other’s may hear. To burn in the passion of that.

Strangely, I am feeling antagonistic, now… and what an ugly, dirty feeling it is. It includes within it a keen self hatred, antagonism. Remember, thrusting the finger outward, we pierce our selves, thrust away ourselves from the meniscus of reality we are pressed against.

Let me say this now to my God, whom I adore.”


“Strangely, I am feeling antagonistic, now…”

“and what an ugly, dirty feeling it is. It includes within it a keen self hatred, antagonism.”

“And I would say that nothing else has any real value because the value of our additions and subtractions are askew from what is- distortion…unreliable… unstable”

There’s one spoonful. Damn, this is going to take a while.


Uh… I have nothing against any of those statements.

I posted them merely to point out that at the beginning and end of your post you contradicted yourself, doing precisely what you began suggesting was useless. In between was a lecture on what we (me and my mice) had the ability to understand and what we aught to live by.

39. Yesri Baba - April 21, 2009

37 Whalerider

Thanks for that. Seems apropo for some strange reason.

40. Crouching Tiger - April 21, 2009



Book about the dramas of Welsh rugby, which we were both involved in. Blurb/reviews give you the general picture anyhow.


“One day it would be good to find a decent job and not worry about the debts my family can’t pay. My family, or the one I picked up again after thirty years! They left the first fifteen and then I joined the Fellowship the remaining fifteen.”

That sounds good to me. One of the hardships of leaving the fellowship, especially if you’ve been in a long time, is simply accepting the need to start from scratch again. It’s not easy when you’re in mid or late life. For myself, I’m just glad I never completely deserted my family during the fellowship years. So the link was still there and could be rebuilt. Likewise, I’m grateful that I can still write, and allow that passion to grow freely in the post-fellowship years.


“…it that it can have therapeutic value simply to vent, and it can also have the effect of distancing oneself emotionally from something that felt malificent to one, to one’s life, to one’s sanity, whether the ‘logic’ or degree of objectivity is all there or not. Has the effect of placing that malificent thing “over there, away” while latching one’s arms about others who are anchoring together in the same way. So I approached this wrong- I was looking for truth and only truth.”

I don’t think this is right. It may be right temporarily, but in the long run you’re trying to reclaim as much of your experience as possible. It often emerges as ‘venting’ because in the fellowship, only one beatified view of Burton is permitted. So there’s bound to be a counter-reaction to that when you find a medium to express ALL your feelings about him. The sound you make may be just a scream. Especially for those who had intimate contact with him.

Far from placing the ‘maleficent thing’ away from you, that scream is a way of embracing all the contradictions you experience with RB… If you like, it’s objective, because it’s responding to an actual situation within an actual man.

You said earlier that you entered the blog because you wanted to embrace those contradictions, so first you have to meet the situation on its own level. Emotionally. To leave Burton, you have to embrace him first.

So, how far from him are you now?

41. Panoritsa - April 21, 2009

One from the Fence.

Thanks for keeping the discussion going here…

If you left the Fellowship around 2000, you missed the part that drove many members of my generation out of the Cult. Burton started making a very lucrative business from teaching how to “Be present” and adding his own touch to whatever he calls “awakening.” I am very grateful for his contribution. It really opened my eyes.

I got involved in organizing many of his events and the closer I would come the more it would reek of corruption.

But there was a very good combination of brainwashing and my inability to trust my own perception that kept me going and kept me telling myself that everything was fine in the Fellowship. It was just my lower self getting it all wrong.

The fellow students were also trained to divert their thoughts, feelings, doubts, sensations and made serious efforts to focus on the counting of fingers and stars in various “images.” So, we were all hiding behind our four fingers.

I led a large number of well-prepared and well-presented prospective student meetings. Many people joined. I write here from time to time in order to confront my own contribution to the insane institution Fellowship of Friends. I often look at that young woman next to a pervert man at the photographs I have from that odd time. She is so eager to belong to something, willing to work hard, tell her she is doing a good job and she will work even harder. I look at the shame I felt during the years I was in the Fellowship. I take the feeling in and I can understand myself a bit more.

For me being part of such a corrupted organization reflects the way I viewed myself then. And I am now in the process of embracing it all and having some compassion and love for who I was. And I am finding peace.

But the Fellowship is a corrupted place to be. It affects you in many subtle ways.

This forum is a way to express one’s criticism about the Cult.

I’ve told you in private and through this forum that if you are really interested to figure out how to deal with your issues, you need to address the problems on a more personal level. You are playing here. You are acting and you enjoy wasting timing with questioning. You need to call friends (and I can see you have some on the GF) and talk, you need to meet them and have their perfume blend with the warm spring air…You are not communicating. You are hiding. And you know that…

But on the other hand you keep some good discussion going, so we do not really want to lose you…

42. Yesri Baba - April 21, 2009


and I might add, for what it’s worth…

The feeling/sensation of antagonism or whatever emotion or thoughts about those emotions regardless of their origins or value judgement added to them are arising in (your) awareness just as the clicks of the computer keys, print on a screen or surrounding room and are just as ‘objective’. If you step outside and look up to the moon or the most distant object (star/galaxy) it is still arising in You, which to my way of thinking, make them subjective.

43. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

38. yes, we become what we resist.

44. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

40. Yes, brilliant. And a person must treat all in that same way and the result will make itself clear. I believe that is the litmus test. If embraced, a thing dissappears, it never was real. If embraced, a thing blooms, it is an aspect of eternity.

45. One from the fence - April 21, 2009

41. I’ve told you in private and through this forum that if you are really interested to figure out how to deal with your issues, you need to address the problems on a more personal level. You are playing here. You are acting and you enjoy wasting timing with questioning. You need to call friends (and I can see you have some on the GF) and talk, you need to meet them and have their perfume blend with the warm spring air…You are not communicating. You are hiding. And you know that…

Yep. That’s pretty right on, Panoritsa. But who in their right mind would talk to me? Let alone meet me for coffee on a spring day? I’d be a danger or an annoyance, to them, as I was back then. If they revealed their heart, I’d stab them in it. Or I’d rant maniacally loud in my own mind so much they couldn’t hear themselves think. I’d draw out the worst of my fears and speak that word. I feel pretty raw still, I can say, now. Perhaps not for the reasons largely expressed on this blog. But I’m feeling better. And it’s about time I did, I guess, reach out to a couple folks. ” But who, but who?” I toy, as my mind covers it’s eye around certain very specific friends.

46. lauralupa - April 21, 2009

one from the fence
“… sometimes I fly into an internal rage about the FOF whence doing my laundry (always when I’m doing my laundry, for some reason, I have no idea why).

I will say that certain offerings here have truly helped me to de-identify with malificent identifications that were created by and of the FOF alone in me. Freedom is always good. Lately, it just feels good to be free of those identifications, and a voice in me says, “Ah, man, it’s been so long!” Sometimes, I perceive in my emotional center, after reading a poignant post, identifications flying from me like hundreds of reptilian scales being shed. But being angsty doesn’t work for me, I guess- pointing my finger- I always end up sounding like a fool. Perhaps I was seeing myself in others- projecting. I was looking for truth here, not therapy. But people use this blog for all kinds of reasons. And I began to take offense. Especially after speaking my truth only to have people clamp down on me senselessly like, yep, a crocodile.”

It seems to me that you are looking for some form of spiritual cleansing. You started writing here hoping to clarify your contradictory feelings about the FoF, your experience that there was something special there regardless of the corruption, and from some of the answers you got the impression that your perceptions were being disregarded, discarded as worthless. They were certainly challenged.

I think, and hope, that you will come to see in time that this blog is a genuine attempt to provide a space for both healing and truth. The two can only go hand in hand, IMO. And some of the truths presented here may be hard to integrate, but they can really help in the process of shedding those reptilian scales of identification and deceit (thanks for the nice metaphor). This may just be the beginning of a process in which much mental residue, not real but projected, will be finally washed away from your psyche. I can tell you that this is how it worked for me. I did my laundry in these croc-infested waters, and on the way became a healthier, happier woman.
Best of luck to you!

BTW, I just came back from another purge with holy grandmother ayahuasca. One great way to go if you are in need of some super deep cleaning…

47. veramente - April 21, 2009

Lauralupa 46
Love the Patti Smith song. Super gem, like you.

48. elena - April 21, 2009

One from the Fence: “But I’m feeling better. And it’s about time I did, I guess, reach out to a couple folks. ” But who, but who?” I toy, as my mind covers it’s eye around certain very specific friends.”

Here is not a bad start and you’ve already jumped over the main obstacle of participating without being put off by criticism. It’s much easier to go out in life without the fear of falling when the first winds come.

But who? Who? Stick around yourself without leaving your premises and people will come and visit you because they find a place to stand on without being stepped on.

49. Panoritsa - April 21, 2009

Fence Man / 45

My dear. You hit the nail on the head here. This exact attitude about yourself is what keeps you spinning. Well done! You expressed it.

Will this change if you start paying every month to be part of a club, so THEY will not have a choice but sit next to you at a meeting and listen to your moaning? You pay your teaching payments, you have friends. That’s what many keep on doing.

This type of prostitution does not help. It makes one feel even worse.

You need to learn to love your divine madness, play with it and your real friends will appear. They will probably not be hundreds, but who needs hundreds? This so much about trust and vulnerability; all unknown terms to Cults.

Love your talents and the tiny moments of your life and you do not need to run to achieve the impossible. You’ve got everything you need. Give yourself some credit man!

We are in this life to live it, not to prepare for it.

50. Panoritsa - April 21, 2009

Some of my so-called “friends” dropped me like a hot potato when they heard I left.

I wish them well but no thanks, not this kind of shadow people again…

51. WhaleRider - April 21, 2009

Fellowship Member Held for Observation

Yuba County (AP)- In a bizarre incident this weekend a Yuba County man and member of the exclusive Fellowship of Friends Pathway to Presence Church, Inc. drove himself to a local hospital emergency room bleeding profusely from both hands. A doctor removed the fine Egyptian cotton hand towels wrapping his hands revealing that the man was missing both his thumbs. When the doctor asked what happened, the man, a 26 year old Russian student visiting on a religious visa named, Vassalslave Kazandaev, stated that he had severed them himself allegedly for religious purposes. “Because c-influence told me to”, he said. Apparently he had seen “signs” in classical art that indicated that “four fingers are a message from c-influence”, although he couldn’t explain what c-influence was. “You wouldn’t understand,” he claimed. “four fingers make a better impression. Go to any museum, you can see it in classical paintings. It’s a sign that our church is the best. Our teacher has taught us that four fingers remind us to take the four conscious breaths and we look for these signs everywhere. This will make it easier to remember myself no matter where I am. It is fine,” he went on to say, “in my church we are taught to separate from our lower self. The thumbs represent my lower self, and we are not allowed to show our thumbs at the dinner table.” The “teacher”, to whom the man referred, is the media shy Robert E. Burton, the spiritual authority figure and founder of the church, who claims to be a “man number 7.8”. Over the years Burton has been the subject of at least two lawsuits claiming fraud and sex with a minor. Doctors referred the man to the psychiatric ward to be held for observation and the Russian Embassy was contacted.

52. elena - April 21, 2009


I can’t believe this is serious. Where did you find this? It sounds serious but where did it come from?

There is as much madness as we’ve been trying to prevent but most still delight in thinking its imagination what we’ve been pointing at.
Hopefully this will help a few more wake up about the fact that the Fellowship needs to be stopped. Stopped, not just talked about.

53. ton - April 21, 2009

my speculation as to the ‘practical reasons’ for cutting off his thumbs; it’s easier to get his hand up the asshole of…. well, you know who.

thanks for the link ct… and congratulations again…. what do they say: ‘it takes leather balls to play rugby’…. also to play ‘blog’ sometimes, speaking of… thanks fence for continuing to mix-it-up here…. airing out the collective ‘dirty laundry’ of the fof is indeed a dirty business… thanks laura for a reverential link to the revered patti smith

54. ton - April 21, 2009

52 elena: “It sounds serious but where did it come from?”

lest the quip in my previous post appear ‘insensitive,’ i assumed it came from a fertile imagination…

55. elena - April 21, 2009

Ton, You mean this is supposed to be a make up story? For fun? What a cheap taste if it is. You mean people like to joke about this things?

56. ton - April 21, 2009

elena, the first clue that it was intended as a joke:
“…A doctor removed the fine Egyptian cotton hand towels wrapping his hands…” but i guess when it’s explained it loses it’s punch… and of course as the saying in my country goes: ‘there’s no accounting for taste’ — ‘cheap taste’ or otherwise…. afterall, when you loggon here you can’t expect ‘high-tea’ — come on now, you know that…

57. elena - April 21, 2009

Sorry Ton but that’s SICK to me.

58. ton - April 21, 2009

sorry? sorry, more ‘sick humor’ — blasphemous!

“let he (or she) who is without sin…. everybody must get stoned’

59. WhaleRider - April 21, 2009

Your inital response to my post is a great example of how people will believe just about anything you tell them, even defying common sense, if it comes in the right packaging from the “authorities”.

That’s what is SICK.

So give me a break. You fell for it. Vassalslave…? C’mon, he’s not a real person! Can you laugh at yourself? We are all fools at one time or another, myself included. Don’t start the holier than thou bullshit. We are all only human not saints.

For me, black humor happens to be a great way to “do some super deep cleaning of my psyche”. Monty Python is a master at it. (Thanks ton.) It’s a healthy tool for seeing ourselves and becoming whole, helping to integrate even the parts of ourselves we think are “sick”.

I thought you might have enjoyed the piece from the Guru Papers I posted on addiction and cults that you had been asking about on the last page. That was for you.

60. ton - April 21, 2009

thanks whalerider for the page on addiction… i’ve added it to my files and thanks again for the continuing and timely installments from the ‘guru papers.’

have y’all seen this yet:


might relate to the subjective/objective ‘question’ that’s sometimes bandied about here — in this portrayal, theater is an instrument for turning the subjective (experience) into objective (art)…. very clever writing, great acting, interesting biographical plot, depressing (if ‘realistic’) overtones but good for a few chuckles as well… a statement about the human condition…. courtesy of ‘netflix’ and all from the comfort of the living room sofa…

61. Jomo Piñata - April 21, 2009

Elena, there’s a long history in the English language of “black humor” delivered with a “straight face.” Have you heard of this?


In this famous essay, Jonathan Swift suggests that the Irish poor might ease their economic troubles by selling their children as food for the wealthy. Swift suggests various recipes for preparing the children, and calculates the financial benefits of his “modest proposal.”

62. ton - April 21, 2009

jomo, i say ‘eat the rich’ afterall there’s more of ‘us’ poor to feed:

from the blog link in a previous post: “‘Synedoche, New York,’ appears to be one of those films; after watching it for the very first time, leaves you with a sense of sceptical mysticism. Being caught in two minds and still hanging left on the fence…”

p.s. thought it might relate to the current ‘foil’ here ?

63. ton - April 21, 2009

i forgot to say (write):
thanks for the Swift… he’s great!

here’s a contemporary… i think:


64. ton - April 21, 2009

“Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following” (or preceding) “pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour; a long habit of not thinking a thing WRONG, gives it a superficial appearance of being RIGHT, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom…. As a long and violent abuse of power, is generally the Means of calling the right of it in question (and in Matters too which might never have been thought of, had not the Sufferers been aggravated into the inquiry)…. Many circumstances hath, and will arise, which are not local, but universal, and through which the principles of all Lovers of Mankind are affected, and in the Event of which, their Affections are interested… ” etc

common sense

65. ton - April 22, 2009

not to worry, about to chekhov…

re: words here, there and elsewhere — wood v tin:

“…now yer talking… all the naughty words sound woody….
what about tit….?”

66. Yesri Baba - April 22, 2009

ton you’re tits.

the boob.

67. ton - April 22, 2009

from one boob to another….

good night

68. WhaleRider - April 22, 2009

OK, here’s my favorite:

(Warning: do not listen to this if you speak German.)

69. elena - April 22, 2009

Whalerider, Jomo,

I’m a fool but it’s still sick to me. You might be smarter, but I’m glad I don’t find that funny. Nor do I think I’m sick for believing it at first glance. I do find funny that I fell for it but not it. The whole thing is as revolting as Robert. Why emulate him here?

So good to be out.

70. WhaleRider - April 22, 2009

Thanks for checking back in with us.

It wasn’t supposed to be funny in the sense of laughing at someone falling out of their wheelchair for goodness sake. That was not my point in writing it…to make fun of people who are psychotic; it’s to address the poor souls who believe in the psychotic rhino shit that Burton serves up every day.

Some of Burton’s ‘teachings” are just plain absurd, but the sick part is they are not laughing because nobody is allowed to laugh, or even smile showing their teeth and if they do, they get booted back to Siberia! So who is emulating who here?

IMO, the reason Burton has the “no wit” exercise is that humor has a way of defeating our defenses and showing us the stark truth in a way that we cannot “buffer” if you’ll permit me to use the cult language.

“Sick” political humor has been a weapon of the people for as long as there have been sick authority figures in power.

The underlying point I was making is: let’s drain the victim pool before something crazy like that happens. It is plausible that someone could get so whacked out from Burton’s “teachings”, that’s what is disturbing about it. This is the problem with people stuck in closed, fundamentalist, authoritarian belief systems; they take everything literally, once they lose touch their common sense. And they have a history of frickin’ burning people at the stake who disagree with them

It is good to be out.

My humble apologies out there to anyone who might not have any thumbs.

71. Yesri Baba - April 22, 2009



In a short appeal to the public investigators are asking for help in locating missing didgets needed as evidence in a case that is causing a Yuba County community to lose it’s grip.

Vassalslave Kazandaev, a member of the doomsday cult Fellowship of Friends, intentionally severed both of his thumbs in a bizarre ritual designed to serve as a reminder of… well… no one really knows.

The thumbs have mysteriously disappeared. In a strange twist reminiscent of the Rockingham Road house in th O.J. case a few droplets of blood have been found leading up the drive to the Galleria, the main meeting hall of the leader of the FOF Robert Burton.

Considering Burton’s history, at a recent damage control meeting addressing the Vassalslave situation, there were many members with grave suspicions Burton was sitting up front with his thumbs up his ass.

72. Kid Shelleen - April 22, 2009

It always sucks when you have to explain the jokes.

I guess we still have our standards to maintain. Wouldn’t want any negative impressions lowering our state!

“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss” — Pete Townshend

73. Panoritsa - April 22, 2009

mid 90’s: I clearly remember after the Buzby affair that Burton said he knew some of his students would give their lives for him.

I do not have the patience to look through any material I still have from the insane quotations, books and daily cards, but if someone had the right wording, it would be helpful…

Burton’s conviction is what is really Sick here.

74. veramente - April 22, 2009

70 WR
My humble apologies out there to anyone who might not have any thumbs.
by association, did you see the English Patient movie?

75. elena - April 22, 2009


Thanks for bothering to explain. My frickin’ weakness with humor is as bad as this blog’s weakness with non humor. Maybe we’ll balance each other out one day but it looks like it’s gonna take longer than we’d like even if we give each other a chance.

76. Jomo Piñata - April 22, 2009

“A Modest Proposal” is supposed to be revolting. The whole idea of its humor comes from the fact that something abhorrent and revolting is being treated as though it were acceptable. A society that can treat something abhorrent and revolting as “normal” needs to have a mirror held up to it, and Swift’s satire is that mirror. Indeed, that’s the purpose of satire.

77. WhaleRider - April 22, 2009

Cult Takes One Step Forward, One Step Back

Yuba City (AP)- Bending to the modern times, the leadership of the exclusive Fellowship of Friends Pathway to Presence, Inc. cult of esoteric Christianity has sanctioned the use of text messaging by its followers to perform their daily task of repeating the list of 30 spiritual commands known as the “sequence”.

Apparently followers are required to repeat to themselves a sequence of 30 commands, such as “sit, beg, lie down, rollover”, a total of 44 times each day in a lunatic effort to create a state known as “Divine Burton Consciousness”, aided by the not so occasional boost from their spiritual authority figure, Robert E. Burton, a former dog trainer, performing his own unique form of worship on the young male member’s members. “It is my form of suffering,” the elderly leader has stated in the past. “You get used to it”, reported one male follower as he left the Galleria after receiving his leader’s “divine guidance”. “But, I am so grateful to be able to text the sequence!” he exclaimed. “Now I have time to remember myself.”

Meanwhile, in order for the followers to be held in a permanent state of spiritual bondage and submission, Fellowship Command and Control, or “c-influence” as they lovingly call it, has also issued a mandatory suggestion that followers abstain from using either of their two thumbs while sending text sequences to each other.

The edict states that they are to hold their phones or PDA devices in one hand with the thumb tucked in and the “four divine digits” clearly visible to others while using only the other “four divine digits” to type the commands, “for consistency”. Apparently, for the past several years followers have not been allowed to use their thumbs while typing on a keyboard nor display their thumbs at the dinner table.

In a related story, one poor member, Vassalslave Kazandaev, was recently hospitalized for psychiatric observation for having severed both his own thumbs off in an apparent gruesome attempt to display his faith and devotion to the cult leader. Some ex-members have taken to the blogosphere to express their outrage of the act, condemning the Fellowship’s practices, and also wonder if there is a connection with Vassalsalve’s stunt and the recent relaxing of Fellowship dogma on texting the canine-like commands.

William Defoe, who starred in the movie, “The English Patient”, was not available for comment, through his publicist sent the following message and link:

“Be careful the one who is not moving.”

78. elena - April 22, 2009


We continue to live fake lives outside as much as inside and being sexually crude and showing blood with such humour does not have the effect of mirroring what some here are hoping but of exaggerating a situation that does not need it. It buffers it instead of processing it.

Celebrating each other at every other step no matter the mildness of the jump seems to be the characteristic behaviour of the gender. It’s fine to realize that we neither laugh nor cry for the same things and are equally free to stand aside.

79. brucelevy - April 22, 2009

78. elena

Another presumptuous use of “we”.

80. brucelevy - April 22, 2009

It would be much more palatable if you spoke as if you were’nt speaking “from the front of the room”. I, and I would guess others, don’t need to be lectured to.

81. Jomo Piñata - April 22, 2009

The Lone Ranger and Tonto
Were riding down the Navajo Trail
When a band of Indians found ’em
Proceeded to surround ’em and
The Lone Ranger turned kinda pale.

“Tonto, our lives are in danger
We got to get away if we can!”
Tonto just looked at Lone Ranger
“What you mean, we, white man?”

The Lone Ranger (1974)
Lyrics by Oscar Brown Jr.

82. Mick Danger - April 22, 2009

Yeah Elena, name one other person that you are including besides yourself.
Fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke.
Is it still ok to use “them” to differentiate from “us”?

83. brucelevy - April 22, 2009

“We” don’t know.

84. Mick Danger - April 22, 2009

I knew that. Tell me something I don’t know.

85. elena - April 22, 2009

The gender must’ve woken up! Must be good we don’t all belong to the same gender!

86. elena - April 22, 2009

The capacity to react to stupidity is inversely proportionate to the incapacity to respond to soundness.
Keep clapping or wooeing if that’s what you think makes you alive!

87. brucelevy - April 22, 2009

Right. Whatever.

88. elena - April 22, 2009


89. Yesri Baba - April 22, 2009

86 Elena

“The capacity to react to stupidity is inversely proportionate to the incapacity to respond to soundness.”

I’m no language wiz but after my brain cooled down…
Since there are two ‘in’s’ in that statement doesn’t it read:

The capacity to react to stupidity is proportionate to the capacity to respond to soundness?

Maybe not, there’s still smoke coming out of my ears.

90. nigel harris price - April 22, 2009

My brain has been hurting since post # 72…..Nigel.

91. Josiane - April 23, 2009

Today is Earth Day. Happy sharing this planet with all living creatures! For the earth, it’s always Earth Day, yet the focus on this particular day that celebrates the planet we live on and that sustains life reminds me that giving and receiving also occurs at the level of the vegetal world, which gives us so much, while asking so little in return (“love welcome”–and that will be returned as well). I am going to hug my rosemary bush right now.

92. elena - April 23, 2009

Not quite Yesri but if you like it better, use it!

93. Bares Reposting - April 23, 2009

50. Panoritsa:

‘I wish them well but no thanks, not this kind of shadow people again…’

The Shadow
Hans Christian Andersen

Anchor Books Doubleday
Hans Christian Andersen:
The Complete Fairy Tales
and Stories
Translated from Danish
by Erik Christian Haugaard

On the shores of the Mediterranean the sun really knows how to shine. It is so powerful that it tans the people a mahogany brown; and the young scholar who came from the north, where all the people are as white as bakers’ apprentices, soon learned to regard his old friend with suspicion. In the south one stays inside during most of the day with the doors and shutters closed. The houses look as if everyone was asleep or no one was at home. The young foreigner felt as if he were in prison, and his shadow rolled itself up until it was smaller than it had ever been before. But as soon as the sun set and a candle lighted the room, out came the shadow again. It was truly a pleasure to watch it grow; up the wall it would stretch itself until its head almost reached the ceiling.

“The stars seem so much brighter here,” thought the scholar, and he walked out onto his balcony where he stretched himself just as his shadow had done. And on all the balconies throughout the city people came out to enjoy the cool evening. Had the town appeared dead and deserted at noon, certainly now it was alive! People were flocking into the streets. The tailors and the shoemakers moved their workbenches outside; the women came with their straight-backed chairs to sit and gossip. Donkeys heavily laden with wares tripped along like little maids. Children were everywhere. They laughed, played, and sometimes cried as children will do, for children can run so fast that they are not certain whether it is a tragedy or a comedy they are enacting. And the lights! Thousands of lamps burned like so many falling stars. A funeral procession, led by little choir boys in black and white, passed with mournful but not sad-looking people following the black-draped horse and wagon. The church bells were ringing. “This is life!” thought the young foreigner, and he tried to take it all in.

Only the house directly across from his own was as quiet now as it had been at midday. The street was very narrow and the opposite balcony was only a few yards away. Often he stood and stared at it, but no one ever came out. Yet there were flowers there and they seemed to be flourishing, which meant that they were cared for or else the sun would long since have withered them. “Yes,” he concluded, “they must be watered by someone.” Besides, the shutters were opened, and while he never saw any light, he sometimes heard music. The scholar thought this music “exquisite,” but that may be only because all young northerners think everything “exquisite” the first time they are in the south.

He asked his landlord if he knew who lived across the street, but the old man replied that he did not and, in fact, had never seen anyone enter or leave. As for the music, he could hardly express how terrible he thought it. “It’s as if someone were practicing,” he said. “The same piece, over and over and over again! And it’s never played all the way through! It’s unbearable!”

One night the young foreigner, who slept with his balcony door open, awakened with a start. A breeze had lifted his drapes so that he caught a glimpse of the opposite balcony. The flowers were ablaze with the most beautiful colors and in their midst stood a lovely maiden. For an instant the scholar closed his eyes to make sure that he had had them open. In a single leap he was standing in front of the drapes. Cautiously, he parted them; but the girl had vanished, the light had disappeared, and the flowers looked as they always did. The door, however, had been left open, and from far inside he could hear music; its gentle strains seemed to cast a spell over him, for never before had he taken such delight in his own thoughts. How does one get into that apartment? he wondered; and he perused the street below. There was no private entrance whatever, only a group of small shops; surely one could not enter a home through a store.

The next evening the scholar was sitting as usual on his balcony. From his room the lamp burned brightly, and since his shadow was very shy of light, it had stretched itself until it reached the opposite balcony. When the young man moved, his shadow moved.

“I believe my shadow is the only living thing over there,” he muttered. “See how it has sat down among the flowers. The balcony door is ajar. Now if my shadow were clever, it would go inside and take a look around; then it would come back and tell me what it had seen. Yes, you ought to earn your keep,” he said jokingly. “Now go inside. Did you hear me? Go!” And he nodded to his shadow and his shadow nodded back at him. “Yes, go! But remember to come back again.” There the scholar’s conversation with his shadow ended. The young man rose, and the shadow on the opposite balcony rose; the young man turned around and the shadow also turned around; but then there happened something that no one saw. The shadow went through the half-open door of the other balcony, while the scholar went into his own room and closed the drapes behind him.

The next morning on his way to the cafe where he had his breakfast and read the newspapers, the scholar discovered that he had no shadow. “So it really went away last night!” he marveled. More than anything else, the young man was embarrassed; people were certain to notice, and might demand that he explain or, worse than that, might make up explanations of their own. He returned at once to his room and there he remained for the rest of the day. That evening he walked out onto his balcony for a bit of fresh air. The light streamed from behind him as it had on the evening before. He sat down, stood up, stretched himself; still there was no shadow, and though it was doubtful that anyone could see him, he hurried inside again almost immediately.

But in the warm countries everything grows much faster than it does in the north, and less than a week had passed before a shadow began to sprout from the scholar’s feet. “The old one must have left its roots behind, what a pleasant surprise!” he thought happily. Within a month he walked the streets unconcerned; his shadow, though a little small, was quite respectable. During the long trip, for the scholar was going home, it continued to grow until even a very big man, which the scholar was not, would not have complained about its size.

Settled once more in his own country, the scholar wrote books about all that is true and beautiful and good. The days became years. The scholar was now a philosopher; and the years became many.

One evening when he was sitting alone in his room there was a very gentle knock at the door.

“Come in,” he called. But no one came, so the philosopher opened the door himself. Before him stood the thinnest man that he had ever seen but, judging from his clothes, a person of some importance. “Whom do I have the honor of addressing?” the philosopher asked.

“I thought as much,” replied the stranger. “You don’t recognize me, now that I have a body of my own and clothes to boot. You never would have believed that you would meet your old shadow again. Things have gone well for me since we parted. If need be, I can buy my freedom!” The shadow jiggled its purse, which was filled with gold pieces, and touched the heavy gold chains that it wore around its neck. On all of its fingers were diamond rings, and every one was genuine.

“I must be dreaming!” exclaimed the philosopher. “What is happening?”

“Well, it isn’t something that happens every day,” said the shadow, “but then, you’re not an ordinary person. Nobody knows that better than I do, didn’t I walk in your first footsteps? . . . As soon as you found that I could stand alone in the world, you let me go. The results are obvious. Without bragging, I can say few could have done better. . . . Of late, a longing has come over me to talk with you before you die – you must die, you know. Besides, I wanted to see this country again, only a rogue does not love his native land. . . . I know that you have a new shadow. If I owe you or it anything, you will be so kind as to tell me.”

“Is it really you?” cried the philosopher. “It’s so incredible! I wouldn’t have believed that one’s shadow could come back to one as a human being!”

“Tell me how much I owe you,” insisted the shadow. “I hate to be in debt.”

“How can you talk like that?” replied the philosopher. “What debt could there be to pay? Be as free as you wish! I am only happy to see you again. And I rejoice in your good luck. Sit down, old friend,” he invited most cordially. “Tell me how all this came about, and what you saw that night in the house across the street.”

“Yes, I will tell you about it,” agreed the shadow, and sat down. “But first you must promise me that you will never tell anyone that I once was your shadow. I’ve been thinking of becoming engaged; after all, I am quite rich enough to support a large family.”

“Don’t give it another moment’s thought,” the philosopher said. “I will never tell anyone who you really are. Here is my hand on it. A man is no better than his word.”

And a word is a shadow,” remarked the shadow, because it could not speak otherwise.

It was really amazing, how human the shadow appeared. It was dressed completely in black, but everything was of the finest quality from its patent leather boots to its hat of the softest felt. The gold chains and the rings have already been described, but one’s eye fell upon them so often that one cannot help mentioning them again. Yes, the shadow was well dressed, and clothes make the man.

“Now I shall begin,” announced the shadow, and it stamped its boots as hard as it could on the philosopher’s new shadow, which was curled up like a poodle at the feet of the man. Perhaps it did this because it hoped to attach the philosopher’s shadow to itself, or maybe just because it was arrogant; but the new shadow did not appear ruffled. It lay perfectly still and listened, for it too wanted to know how one could be free and become one’s own master.

“Do you know who lived in the house across the street?” asked the shadow. “That’s the best of all, it was Poetry! I was there for three weeks, and that is just as edifying as having lived three thousand years and read everything that’s ever been composed or written. This I say, and what I say is true! I have seen all and I know all!”

“Poetry!” cried the philosopher. “Yes . . . yes. She is often a hermit in the big cities. I saw her myself once, but only for a short moment and my eyes were drowsy from sleep. She was standing on the balcony and it was as if the northern lights were shining around her. . . . Go on, go on! There you were on the balcony; then you walked through the doorway and . . . and . . .”

“I was in the entrance hall. That’s what you sat looking at all the time, the vestibule. There was no lamp in there, and that’s why from the outside the apartment appeared dark. But there was a door. It opened onto another room, which opened onto another, which opened onto another. There was a long row of rooms and anterooms before one reached the innermost where Poetry lived. And these were ablaze with more than enough light to kill a shadow, so I never saw the maiden up close. I was cautious and patient, and that is the same as being virtuous.”

“Come, come,” commanded the philosopher curtly. “Tell me what you saw.”

“Everything! And I’ll tell you about it, but first . . . It has nothing whatever to do with pride, but out of respect to my accomplishments, not to speak of my social position, I wish you wouldn’t address me so familiarly.”

“Forgive me!” exclaimed the philosopher. “It is an old habit, and they are the hardest to get rid of. But you are quite right, and I’ll try to remember. . . . Please do continue, for I am immensely interested.”

“Everything! I have seen all, and I know all!”

“I beg you to tell me about the innermost room where Poetry dwelled. Was it like the beech forest in spring? Was it like the interior of a great cathedral? Or was it like the heavens when one stands on a mountaintop?”

“Everything was there!” replied the shadow. “Of course, I never went all the way in. The twilight of the vestibule suited me better, and from there I had an excellent view. I saw everything and I know all. I was at the court of Poetry, in the entrance hall.”

“But what did you see?” urged the philosopher. “Did Thor and Odin walk those halls? Did Achilles and Hector fight their battles again? Or did innocent children play there and tell of their dreams?”

“I am telling you that I was there. And you understand, I saw everything that there was to see. You could not have stayed there and remained a human being, but it made a human being of me! I quickly came to understand my innermost nature, that part of me which from birth can claim kinship to Poetry. When I lived with you, I didn’t even think about such things. You’ll remember that I was always larger at sunrise and at sunset, and that I was more noticeable in the moonlight than you were. Still, I had no understanding of my nature; that did not come until I was in the vestibule, and then I became a human being.

“I was fully mature when I came out; by then you had already left the south. Being human made me ashamed to go around as I was; I needed boots, clothes, and all the other trimmings that make a man what he is. So there was nothing else for me to do but hide. . . . I wouldn’t say this to anyone but you, and you mustn’t mention it in any of your books. . . . I hid under the skirts of the woman who sold gingerbread men in the market. Luckily, she never found out how much her petticoats concealed. I came out only in the evening; then I would walk around in the moonlight, stretching myself up the walls to get the kinks out of my back. Up and down the streets I went, peeping through the windows of the attics as well as the drawing rooms. And I saw what no one ever sees, what no one ever should see! It’s really a horrible world, and I wouldn’t be human if it weren’t so desirable. I saw things that ought to be unthinkable; and these were not only done by husbands and wives, but by parents and the sweet, innocent children! I saw,” said the shadow, “I saw everything that man must not know, but what he most ardently wishes to know – his neighbor’s evil! If I had written a newspaper, everyone would have read it; but instead I wrote directly to the persons themselves, and I wreaked havoc in every city that I came to. People feared me so much and were so fond of me! The universities gave me honorary degrees, the tailors gave me clothes, and the women said that I was handsome. In a word, each donated what he could, and so I became the man that I am. . . . But it is getting late, and I must say goodbye. Here is my card. I live on the sunnier side of the street and am always home when it rains.”

“How strange!” remarked the philosopher after the shadow had left.

. . . . . .

The years and the days passed, and the shadow came again.

“How are things going?” it asked.

“Oh,” replied the philosopher, “I have been writing about all that is true and beautiful and good, but no one cares to hear about anything like that, and I am terribly disappointed because those are the things that are dear to me.”

“Well, they aren’t to me,” said the shadow. “I’ve been concentrating on gaining weight, and that there’s some point in. You don’t understand the world, that’s what’s the matter with you. You ought to travel. I am going on a trip this summer, would you like to join me? If you would like to travel as my shadow it would be a pleasure to have you along. I’ll pay for your trip!”

“You go too far!” retorted the philosopher.

“It all depends how you look at it. The trip will do you good and, traveling as my shadow, you’ll have all your expenses paid by me.”

“Monstrous!” shouted the philosopher.

“But that’s the way of the world, and it isn’t going to change,” said the shadow, and left.

Matters did not improve for the philosopher; on the contrary, sorrow and misery had attached themselves to his coattails. For the most part, whenever he spoke of the true and the beautiful and the good, it was like setting roses before a cow. Finally he became seriously ill.

“You look like a shadow of your former self,” people would say, and when he heard these words a shiver went down his spine.

“You ought to go to a health resort,” suggested the shadow when it came to visit him again. “There’s no other alternative. I will take you along for old time’s sake. I’ll pay the expenses, and you’ll talk and try to amuse me along the journey. I’m going to a spa, myself, because my beard won’t grow. That’s a disease too, you know, because beards are a necessity. If you’re sensible, you’ll accept. We’ll travel as friends.”

And so they traveled, the shadow as master and the master as shadow, for whether they were being driven in a coach, riding horseback, or simply walking, they were always side by side and the shadow kept itself a little in the fore or in the rear, according to the direction of the sun. It knew how to create the impression that it was the superior. The philosopher, however, was not aware of any of this. He had a kind heart, which did not even have a guest room reserved for envy. The journey was not yet over when the philosopher suggested to the shadow, “Now that we’re traveling companions – and when you consider the fact that we’ve grown up together, shouldn’t we call each other by first names? It makes for a much pleasanter atmosphere.”

“There’s something in what you say,” began the shadow, who now was the real master. “You have spoken frankly, and what you have said was well meant; therefore, I ought to be honest with you. As a philosopher, you know how strange nature can be. Some people cannot bear to have a rough piece of material next to their bodies, and others can’t hear a nail scratching on glass without it upsetting their nervous systems. Well, I would have the same feeling if you were to call me by my first name. I would have the feeling that I was being pressed to the ground, as if my relationship to you had never changed. You understand it’s merely a feeling, it has nothing whatever to do with pride. But I could call you by your first name and satisfy half of your request.”

From then on, the shadow always spoke and referred to the philosopher by his first name.

He goes too far,” thought the man. “He’s hardly civil to me.” But when one is poor, one does more thinking than speaking.

At last they arrived at the famous resort where people came from all over the world to be cured. Among the guests was a beautiful princess who suffered from seeing too clearly, which is a very painful disease.

She noticed at once that one of the new arrivals was very different from everyone else. He had come to make his beard grow, she was told. “But that’s not the real reason,” she muttered to herself.

And to satisfy her curiosity, she went right up and spoke to the stranger, for the daughter of a king need not stand on ceremony with anyone. “Your trouble is that you cannot cast a shadow,” the princess announced.

“Your Royal Highness is getting well!” exclaimed the shadow. “I know that you suffered from seeing too clearly, but you must be getting over it. You show signs of perfect health. . . . I grant you that it is a very unusual one, but I do have a shadow. Other people have just ordinary shadows, but I despise the ordinary. You know how one dresses one’s servants so that their livery is finer than one’s own clothes; well, I let my shadow pretend that he is human. As you can see, I have even bought him a shadow. It was very expensive, but I am fond of doing the original.”

“What!” thought the princess. “Have I really been cured? This is the finest spa there is. How fortunate I am to be born in the time when these marvelous waters were discovered. . . . But just because I am well is no reason to leave. I’m enjoying myself here. That stranger interests me, I hope his beard won’t grow too quickly.”

That night there was a grand ball that everyone attended, and the shadow danced with the princess. The princess was light on her toes, but the shadow was even lighter; such a graceful partner she had never had before. They discovered that he had once visited her country while she was abroad. There, too, the shadow had peeped through all of the windows, those that faced the street and those that did not. He had seen both this and that; and he knew how to tell about some of what he had seen and how to hint at the rest, which was even more impressive. The princess was astounded. She had never spoken to anyone who was so worldly wise, and out of respect for what he knew, she danced with him again.

The next time they danced together the princess fell in love. The shadow noticed the sudden change with relief. “She’s finally been cured of seeing too clearly,” he thought.

The princess would have confessed her feelings immediately if she hadn’t been so prudent. She thought of her realm and of the people she ruled. “He knows well the ways of the world, that’s a good sign,” she commented silently. “He dances well, that is also a virtue. But is he really educated, for that is very important? I’d better test him.” Then she began to ask the shadow questions so difficult that she herself did not know the answers.

An expression of confusion came over the shadow’s face.

“You cannot answer!” exclaimed the princess.

“I learned the answers to questions like that in childhood,” said the shadow. I believe that even my shadow, who is sitting over there by the door, could respond correctly.”

“Your shadow! That really would be remarkable!”

“I can’t say for certain,” continued the shadow. “I just wouldn’t be surprised if he could. After all, he’s never done anything but follow me around and listen to what I say. Yes,” he cried in a sudden burst of enthusiasm, “I believe he will be able to answer you! . . . But, Your Royal Highness, if you will allow me to make a suggestion. My shadow is so proud of being thought to be human, if Your Royal Highness wishes to create the right atmosphere, so that the shadow will be able to do his best, please treat him as if he were a man.”

“I’d prefer it that way,” said the kings daughter, and she joined the philosopher, who was alongside the door. She questioned him about the sun and the moon and the stars, and about the human race, both inside and out; and he answered every query both cleverly and politely.

“What must the man be worth, if his shadow is so wise!” thought the princess. “It would be a blessing for my people if I chose him for my husband. I shall do it!”

The shadow was very amenable. It agreed, without hesitation, that their plans must not be revealed until the princess had returned home.

“I will not even tell my shadow,” he said, while he thought how admirably the world had been created.

Not long after they came to the land which the princess ruled whenever she was there.

“My good friend,” the shadow began to the philosopher. “Now that I am as happy and as powerful as anyone can hope to be, I’d like to share my good fortune with you. You may live with me always, here in the castle; you may drive with me in the royal coach; and you will be paid one hundred thousand gold pieces a year. In return, all I ask is that you let everyone call you a shadow; that you never admit to anyone that you have ever been a human being; and that once a year, when I sit on the balcony so that the people can pay me homage, you lie at my feet as a shadow should. . . . I might as well tell you that I am marrying the princess, and the wedding is tonight.”

“No, this cannot happen!” cried the philosopher. “I don’t want to do it, and I won’t! You are a fraud! I will tell everything! You’ve fooled both the people and the princess; but now I will tell them that I am a human being and that you are only my shadow, who’s been masquerading as a man!”

“No one will believe you,” warned the shadow. “Now be reasonable or I’ll call the guard.”

“I intend to ask for an audience with the princess,” replied the philosopher.

“But I will speak with her first,” said the shadow, “and you will be imprisoned.”

The shadow’s threat very quickly became a reality, for the royal sentry knew whom the princess had chosen to be her husband.

“You are shivering,” remarked the princess as soon as he entered her chambers. “You must not get sick this evening, not for the wedding!”

“I’ve just had the most horrible experience that one can have,” replied the shadow. “Imagine! . . . Oh, how fragile a shadow’s brain must be! . . . Imagine, my shadow has gone mad. He believes he is a man. And that I . . . that I, am his shadow!”

“How dreadful!” she exclaimed. “He isn’t running around loose, I hope.”

“No, no, he’s not,” he said softly. “I am so afraid he will never get well.”

“Poor shadow,” continued the princess. “He must be suffering terribly. It would really be kinder to free him from that particle of life he has. Yes, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that it’s necessary for him to be done away with. . . . Quietly, of course.”

“It seems so cruel,” said the shadow, “when I think of how loyal a servant it was,” and a sound resembling a sigh escaped from the shadow’s lips.

“How noble you are!” exclaimed the princess.

That night the whole city was brilliantly lighted. The cannons were shot off. Boom! Boom! Boom! The soldiers presented arms. Oh, what a wedding it was! The shadow and the princess came out onto the balcony, and the people screamed, “Hurrah!”

The philosopher heard nothing of all of this, for they had already taken his life.

* * * * * *

When most I wink,
then do mine eyes best see,
For all the day
they view things unrespected;
But when I sleep,
in dreams they look on Thee,
And darkly bright
are bright in dark directed.
Then Thou, whose shadow
shadows doth make bright,
How would Thy shadow’s
form form happy show
To the clear day
with thy much clearer light,
When to unseeing eyes
Thy shade shines so!
How would, I say,
mine eyes be blesséd made
By looking on Thee
in the living day,
When in dead night
Thy fair imperfect shade
Through heavy sleep
on sightless eyes doth stay!
All days are nights to see
till I see Thee,
And nights bright days
when dreams
do show Thee me.

William Shakespeare
Sonnet 43

94. Ill Never Tell - April 23, 2009

Vassalslave Kazandaev is wrong name.
Should be Vassalslave Kazandaagz.
Not Russky. Maybe from Transylvania or Lower Slobovia. Someone have bats in belfry.

Tonto said:
“What you mean, we, Kemosaby?”

95. Mick Danger - April 23, 2009

Hans & William can really tell a story, can’t they?
It’s like poetry.

BTW: En espanol “Tonto” means “Stupid”.
& Sabe comes from the verb “saber” – to know.
I’m not sure what “Kemo” means.

96. Jomo Piñata - April 23, 2009

94/Ill Never Tell

The punch line is much softer in your version. I was quoting the lyrics of the song.

97. ton - April 23, 2009

“kemo,” from the english “chemo” is a shortened word for “chemical” — it’s a little known fact that ‘kemo sabe’ is a nick-name the ‘ranger’ acquired during therapeutic treatment for cancer of the genitals.

98. Mick Danger - April 23, 2009

Holy Shit! There’s esoteric crap everywhere in this place.
The “Lone Ranger” wore a mask, rode a white horse, & had silver guns with silver bullets.
Tonto (El Stupido) was his faithful indian guide (El Guru).

99. Kid Shelleen - April 23, 2009

Here’s a great piece of wisdom from the Canadian TV sit-com “Corner Gas”:

She: Would you like to come to my free Pilates class?

He: Don’t know. What’s Pilates?

She: It’s a method of unifying your mind and body. You would like to unify your mind and body wouldn’t you?

He: No. I don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket.

100. in2it - April 23, 2009

a book review that I found on the internet…

“The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless Versus the Rest of Us”
by Martha Stout

Who is the devil you know?

Is it your lying, cheating ex-husband?
Your sadistic high school gym teacher?
Your boss who loves to humiliate people in meetings?
The colleague who stole your idea and passed it off as her own?

In the pages of The Sociopath Next Door, you will realize that your ex was not just misunderstood. He’s a sociopath. And your boss, teacher, and colleague? They may be sociopaths too.

We are accustomed to think of sociopaths as violent criminals, but in The Sociopath Next Door, Harvard psychologist Martha Stout reveals that a shocking 4 percent of ordinary people—one in twenty-five—has an often undetected mental disorder, the chief symptom of which is that that person possesses no conscience. He or she has no ability whatsoever to feel shame, guilt, or remorse. One in twenty-five everyday Americans, therefore, is secretly a sociopath. They could be your colleague, your neighbor, even family. And they can do literally anything at all and feel absolutely no guilt.

How do we recognize the remorseless? One of their chief characteristics is a kind of glow or charisma that makes sociopaths more charming or interesting than the other people around them. They’re more spontaneous, more intense, more complex, or even sexier than everyone else, making them tricky to identify and leaving us easily seduced. Fundamentally, sociopaths are different because they cannot love. Sociopaths learn early on to show sham emotion, but underneath they are indifferent to others’ suffering. They live to dominate and thrill to win.

The fact is, we all almost certainly know at least one or more sociopaths already. Part of the urgency in reading The Sociopath Next Door is the moment when we suddenly recognize that someone we know—someone we worked for, or were involved with, or voted for—is a sociopath. But what do we do with that knowledge? To arm us against the sociopath, Dr. Stout teaches us to question authority, suspect flattery, and beware the pity play. Above all, she writes, when a sociopath is beckoning, do not join the game.

It is the ruthless versus the rest of us, and The Sociopath Next Door will show you how to recognize and defeat the devil you know.

101. WhaleRider - April 23, 2009

“We continue to live fake lives…”

…sounds strangely reminiscent of a conversation with Burton many years ago about my divorced parents first coming together because it was “mechanical”.

Both statements strike me as an attempt to undermine my self-trust by instilling doubt about my personal experience. I was a fool to believe Burton, and I’d be a fool to think I lead a fake life.

My life is very real to me, as real as your life is to you. And believing an authority figure without question…that is mechanical.

102. veramente - April 23, 2009

93. Bares Reposting
The Shadow
Hans Christian Andersen
long and beautiful to read. Thank you!

103. ton - April 23, 2009

97, the lone ranger cont: he always had Tonto, his faithful sidekick nearby and so i wondered why he was called ‘the lone ranger’ (?) a little research revealed this: unfortunately the chemo-therapy was not entirely successful… the doctors had no choice but to surgically remove the masked-man’s penis (read: ‘saber’) and one of his testicles… as a result the nick-name ‘lone ranger’ was ‘grafted’ onto the nick-name ‘kemo sabe.’ the legend goes that the masked hero was still able to perform intercourse post surgery with the help of a prosthesis made of… you guessed it, silver… the ‘ranger’ liked to joke about his artificial appendage, referring to it as ‘my third silver gun… only it shoots blanks.’ fans will recall the familiar refrain ‘Hi-yo Silver’ which ostensibly meant ‘gittee-up’ to his horse named ‘Silver’ — but this famous phrase was thought of behind the scenes as a double-entendre the ‘ranger’ used during bedroom escapades.

104. James Mclemore - April 23, 2009

Where did you get that story? I think you have been given poor information. I was told a story long ago that I feel quite sure is the truth of what happened to the Lone Ranger’s appendage.
The LR and Tonto had just finished bathing in the river. The LR sat on a rock to let himself dry and did not see the rattlesnake until it was too late. It bit him right on the penis. He screamed in pain and told Tonto to ride to town to get anti-venom from the doctor. Tonto rode quickly to town and burst into the doctor’s office. He told the Dr. what had happened and the Doctor told him he was very sorry but that he was completely out of the serum. Tonto asked him what to do. The Dr. said that the only thing that could be done would be for Tonto to go back and suck the venom out with his mouth, otherwise the Lone Ranger would certainly die. Tonto rode back to the campsite. The Lone Ranger looked up at him and asked,
“What did the doctor say?”
Tonto looked down at his friend,
“He said you’re going to die.”

105. Ill Never Tell - April 23, 2009

99. Kid Shelleen:

‘She: It’s a method of unifying your mind and body. You would like to unify your mind and body wouldn’t you?

He: No. I don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket.’

A Buddhist monk was on a pilgrimage to New York City with the idea they would find enlightenment there. But the unlikely meat eating monk decided to have a hot dog from one of those street vendors. The street vendor asked the monk, ‘Would you like me to make you one with everything?’ ‘Eureka!’ said the monk, ‘Oneness is every where.’

106. ton - April 23, 2009

105 …evertell,

a long time ago ‘conscious bob’ also read this parable — it’s the source of his obsession and the mistaken idea that sucking down ‘weeners’ leads to ‘enlightenment.’

107. brucelevy - April 23, 2009

105. Ill Never Tell

…and then the monk said “where’s my change”? And the vendor said “all change must come from within”.

108. Yesri Baba - April 23, 2009

The Dr. said that the only thing that could be done would be for Tonto to go back and suck the venom out with his mouth, otherwise the Lone Ranger would certainly die. Tonto rode back to the campsite. The Lone Ranger looked up at him and asked,
“What did the doctor say?”
Tonto looked down at his friend,
“He said you’re going to die.”

Lone Ranger:”HI-yoooo Silver, to the Galleria! and pronto Tonto.”

109. Yesri Baba - April 23, 2009

…and then the monk said “where’s my change”?
and Burton said,”can I suck your weener?”

110. ton - April 23, 2009

109 yesri
‘conscious bob’ confuses the intake of “weeners” for “change” — in this case it’s a simple mistake to make for a moron like him… the part that throws him off is the bit about “all change must ‘come’ from within”

111. ton - April 23, 2009

re: my use of the ‘pejorative’ term ‘moron’; not to discount the ‘ad hominem attack,’ but this may be a bit more ‘scientific’ for those so inclined:


112. elena - April 23, 2009


If life weren’t so fake you wouldn’t be afraid of saying the name of the people you address! Or use that. Fortunately that’s just one side of you because every once in a while you come up with things worth looking at. I won’t mention them today because I’m taking an intensive course on the lone ranger’s humor! The first lesson is: if he’s riding a whale applaud even when he falls! The second one is: if you can’t laugh at the the blood and the penises that excite us as if we didn’t have one, you’re not worth this club’s badge. Third lesson: This is the public square were shit is worth more than a dime. Fourth lesson: Everything is corruptible and we’re masters at it. Fifth: Everyone laughs one way or another!

Life gets more interesting each day!

113. elena - April 23, 2009

Oh, forgot the sixth lesson, there’s another public square just a few blocks down, if you go visit it we all win! and the miracle seven: The end justifies the means!

114. ton - April 23, 2009

james 104,
sorry i’m not at liberty to disclose my sources…. but i like your version of events better so i’ll adopt that along with yesri’s detail as to how with the help of Tonto and Silver ‘the lone ranger’ survived a snakebite by finding the ‘cocksucking savior’ at the galleria. and for all those mavens of ‘good taste’ out there i apologize for a ‘sophomoric’ sense of humor… but i still think ‘dick jokes’ are funny.

115. elena - April 23, 2009

Why not Ton, if we can’t internalize it we might as well put out there! I mean sex, “we” or “you” if you prefer!

116. elena - April 23, 2009

After all, aren’t we Bobbies boobies? There’s another way of externalizing it for you:! A whole community dedicated to the penis factory, suppose we didn’t quite manage to leave!

117. James Mclemore - April 23, 2009

Elena, you said,

“Everything is corruptible and we’re masters at it.”

Even beyond the use of that ‘we’ again, are you sure of what you are saying? I am not even sure what that statement might mean, but it sounds like it is something being said from a place of frustration. That frustration could be said to be a corruption, but just a temporary sort, and easily fixed.

Now as far as miracle number 7, I always thought that phrase came from the story of the young boy who planted a magic bean, which grew into a monstrous tree, which had people-eating giants in it, and huge drama, and they finally had to cut the tree down to put an end to the whole thing, and even then there was catastrophe. But in the final tally, it did seem true to them that ‘the end justified the bean’.

Elena – take the day off – go for a walk in your beautiful countryside – there is nothing bad happening here – the blog is still the same blog – nothing has been corrupted – the beauty you have seen at different times in the posters here is still fully intact. The people like Whale Rider and ‘ton, and many others who have tirelessly posted so many, many useful and healing things are still right here doing what they have always done.

118. ton - April 24, 2009

i would in no way equate ‘making light of’ or otherwise ‘shedding light’ on “conscious bob’s rape factory,” with what is posted here on the blog…. those of ‘us’ who post here, who’ve left the fof, are afterall trying to expose the corruption and to help others leave or to not ‘join’ in the first place….

119. ton - April 24, 2009

sorry, i mis-wrote in that last post: meant to say that to equate what goes on here at the blog with “conscious bob’s rape factory” is a definite mis-perception.

120. elena - April 24, 2009

Really? Or maybe the perception is shallow enough that it doesn’t quite touch the anal- ogy?

Why get serious now guys, aren’t we into satire?

121. ton - April 24, 2009

elena, good pun, thanks for the anal humor.

I’m not aware of too many things
I know what I know if you know what I mean
Philosophy, is the talk on a cereal box
Religion, is a smile on a dog….
Choke me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep
What I am is what I am are you what you are or what
What I am is what I am are you what you are or what
Oh I’m not aware of too many things
I know what I know if you know what I mean
Philosophy, is a walk on the slippery rocks
Religion, is a light in the fog
I’m not aware of too many things
I know what I know if you know what I mean
Do do ya
Choke me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep
Chuck me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep
What I am is what I am are you what you are or what….
Choke me in the shallow water before I get too deep
Don’t let me get too deep….
What I am is what I am are you what you are or what
Or what you are oh
Or what you are oh oh oh
Say what I am

122. Yesri Baba - April 24, 2009

114 ton

Yes, the Lone Ranger survived but ‘conscious bob’ has third degree burns in his mouth!

123. nigel harris price - April 24, 2009

The Second Coming
By W B Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

124. Panoritsa - April 24, 2009

And I thought the blog was turning a bit funny…

This from a new post on the GF! Burton turns 70 on May 12 (which in itself is a lie…)

“…Robert wishes to (in his words) ‘paint the landscape of Apollo with camels, llamas, water buffalo and elephants(?)’… Already gracing our fields as one enters Apollo are llamas and water buffalo.

Pictured here are the two camels he wants to add to the scenery; they are both 14 month old females:
Jasmin & Valentine…”

Hoera! Welcome Jasmin and Valentine!

What’s going on with those people in the Fellowship? How many humiliations are they going to endure?

125. Panoritsa - April 24, 2009

93 Bares Reposting.

Thank you for the story. Beautiful.

126. Mick Danger - April 24, 2009

124 Panoritsa
Nine out of ten men who have tried camels prefer women.
(It’s a joke).

127. Mick Danger - April 24, 2009

There’s always that One out of Ten.

128. elena - April 24, 2009

Yes please, go on with the show, it’s getting late for me, gotta get home!

129. Another Name - April 24, 2009

I ll never tell

A Buddhist monk was on a pilgrimage to New York City with the idea they would find enlightenment there. But the unlikely meat eating monk decided to have a hot dog from one of those street vendors. The street vendor asked the monk, ‘Would you like me to make you one with everything?’ ‘Eureka!’ said the monk, ‘Oneness is every where.’

…and then the monk said “where’s my change”? And the vendor said “all change must come from within”.

I am still doubled over…….bring them on.

130. Panoritsa - April 24, 2009

Elena, yes the boys go on with their jokes, but the announcement is not a joke…Burton goes on with his aim to create a paradise on Earth at Oregon House; lamas, buffalo, now camels and then some elephants. People pay for it… I guess it must be part of their dream too. But then again, poor animals…

131. Panoritsa - April 24, 2009

Can anyone out there please remind us what Burton did during the celebration of his 60th birthday?

132. Mick Danger - April 24, 2009

Let me explain something about humor……
Oh never mind, just like a lot of things it can’t be explained.
Thank God “we” can still laugh.

133. elena - April 24, 2009

You haven’t done anything else here Mick, it’s a good thing someone expresses what everybody else wants! There’s the taxi!

134. elena - April 24, 2009

Wrong! It was Silver gone wild after dropping the rider!

135. Yesri Baba - April 24, 2009

Elephants!!? I’d sure hate to be the one who had to clean up the ‘teachings’.

136. Yesri Baba - April 24, 2009

131 Panoritsa

Sucked weeners.

137. elena - April 24, 2009

Just like the richest mafia dealer here, Pablo E. Narcissistic Sociopaths are much alike!


138. Panoritsa - April 24, 2009

Thanks for the article Elena!

Here is how Apollo-Isis-Renaissance-The Farm… will look in a couple of years (from Elena’s article above!)

…Apart from the hippos, the park has two zebras, an ocelot, a margay, an ostrich and several buffalo. The animals come from a regional environmental agency and were seized from law-breaking owners. Butterfly and reptile houses are in the planning, as well as an aquarium. The puma and the spectacled bear are expected to arrive today….

139. Panoritsa - April 24, 2009


How many?

But I am told that it was about the orgy at his 64th birthday… 64 fellow students he had that day…Fellow students you and I talked to and had no idea…

A school of esoteric knowledge and being, on the shoulders of giants, a place where one learns how to “control” the “passions.”

As the master himself would say: “To be so wrong, to be so mistaken.” Brrrrrr….I am getting the chills

140. WhaleRider - April 24, 2009

Due to the extreme graphic nature of the following satire, it is not advised reading for children, adults with the emotional development of children, or anyone applying for sainthood. It is recommended that you read this on an empty stomach and do not try this at home.

Cult Leader Hospitalized, Another Man Held for Observation

Yuba County (AP)- In another bizarre incident, late last night police and later a doctor were summoned to the Galleria, home of Robert E. Burton, age 70, the spiritual authority for the Fellowship of Friends Pathway to Presence, Inc. Church of Esoteric Christianity.

Police were shocked to discover Burton unconscious and nude, lying prostrate on the main floor of the building with a follower’s forearm lodged in Burton’s rectum all the way up to the elbow.

The man, 27 year old Dimitri Slavekov, was yelling, “I’ve got it, I’ve got it” and refused to remove his arm. Police were unable to use their taser guns in fear of shocking the elderly Burton, possibly giving him a heart attack, and pepper spray would not deter the man.

A call was put out for a psychiatrist, and shortly after arriving and speaking with Mr. Slavekov, the doctor administered antipsychotic medication to him, and he immediately fell into a stupor. Slavekov’s arm was removed and his hand came out empty. The still unconscious Burton was taken to a local hospital and x-rays confirmed there was nothing inside.

“It reminded me of how to catch a monkey”, said the psychiatrist, referring to the technique of placing a grapefruit in a jar and tying the jar to a tree. “The monkey grabs the grapefruit and won’t let go until the hunter tickles it under the armpit. But unfortunately, tickling didn’t work in this case. Fellowship members are conditioned over time by the group’s teachings not to laugh.”

Later, after police questioning, Slavekov revealed that he was simply “Diving for pearls” as he put it, a practice quite common in the Fellowship. “I thought I felt something,” said Salvekov. “He said I was getting closer…what an asshole! He’s deep!” he exclaimed referring to Burton, looking dreamy-eyed. Slavekov also stated that apparently one man, Asswipe Bravoman, claimed to have found a pearl of wisdom among all the fecal matter coming out of Burton, and has been named the heir apparent to the Fellowship serfdom, although the pearl has never actually been seen and many ex-members doubt that any pearls exist whatsoever.

Slavekov is being held for psychiatric evaluation along with another Fellowship member, Vassalslave Kazandaev, who was recently admited for a long term stay. Kazandaev was reportedly responding fairly well to the antipsychotic medication that his doctors have prescribed for him, although nurses have found him wandering the halls of the hospital coming to “grips” with his past, saying to himself, “I cut off my family, I cut off my friends, I even cut off my thumbs!” and then breaking down in tears. Doctors are hopeful that learning to express remorse for his actions will lead to his recovery from his psychosis.

In a related story, the Fellowship has filed with the Yuba county Department of Animal Control to be allowed to have two camels on their property along with several other exotic animals, including water buffalos, llamas and elephants, animals all known for producing copious amounts of manure each day. Apparently the group places great value and significant meaning in animal waste.

141. Panoritsa - April 24, 2009

Just in case you need a Camel at your backyard!

Camels for sale! Jasmine was born on February 8 (is this the Jasmine we are talking about???). Her price is $6,500….San Diego County…


142. Jomo Piñata - April 24, 2009

Apparently the group places great value and significant meaning in animal waste.

Hydrogen 4096 or 8192, depending upon how one parses it. A “by-product” of consciousness, it has a venerable antecedent in the ancient religion of the Etruscans:


143. elena - April 24, 2009

Whalerider: “Due to the extreme graphic nature of the following satire, it is not advised reading for children, adults with the emotional development of children, or anyone applying for sainthood.”

That makes it unreadable to anyone who was ever in the Fellowship even if after leaving they opted to follow the lone ranger deep into the camel’s ass!

144. WhaleRider - April 24, 2009

With all his hoards of cash in overseas accounts and a little KY Jelly, maybe Burton is going to show his followers how to fit a camel through the eye of a needle.

145. elena - April 24, 2009

If we’re gonna crucify someone let’s make sure they’re applying for sainthood because the narcissistic sociopaths can go on roaming untouched because we believe in freedom of religion!

The Seven Immortals with Lone Ranger at their head!

There’s my bus now, gotta get to the pilgrimage!

146. elena - April 24, 2009

Sorry Whalerider, hadn’t seen you fidgeting with planes but I doubt Burton is ever going to fly, even a small one! Everything they bought is still rotting in the graveyards around Apollo. They might try putting some wheels on those boats and they’ll believe they are floating down the Nile for the Rhino poo! You could at least show them how to ride a few whales! No, maybe they do that already too well!

147. nigel harris price - April 24, 2009

Is this International Weirdness Day?????…..Nigel.

148. elena - April 24, 2009

No Nigel, we’re just going on a pilgrimage! if you want, you and From the Fence can hop on Tonto and come with me! Ofcourse, there’s more room on the Whale but make up your minds quickly ‘cos I can’t hold the horses now!

149. WhaleRider - April 24, 2009

“Seeing the nature of the division in oneself (good vs. bad, higher vs. lower, sick vs. sane, me vs. elena) including how both sides need each other to exist, begins to defuse the power of each.”

~The Guru Papers

You are only on a pilgrimage into yourself. Good luck on your journey.

150. nigel harris price - April 24, 2009

“Ebony and ivory
Livin’ in perfect harmony;
Side by side my piano keyboard:
Why can’t we?”…..
…..”there is good and bad in everyone…..”

(Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney)

Wasn’ it strange how we were told/taught to not use negative halves of centres in the Fellowship (by the excercise of non-expression of negative emotions)? How we actually need them for discrimination’s sake!…..Nigel.

151. nigel harris price - April 24, 2009

148 elena

Oh, my God! You’re not doing a nigey-like hypo-flipper, are you?…..Nigel.

152. elena - April 24, 2009

O’course Whalerider, you wouldn’t want me to do a pilgrimage into yours would you? Thought you’d ridden enough Whales! Isn’t that your expertise?

Not a nigey flipper Nigel, it only gets dark down the asses but they’ve rubbed them on us enough to start getting the scent of it. They must’ve enjoyed them after all, else why would they enjoy the story so often? Haven’t you noticed it’s the only thing that tickles the tongues around here lately?

There’s Tonto now Nigel and the pilgrimage is on its way so I really should get going! You take good care of the show, try some comedy and talk badly about those applying to sanctity and they’ll let you fit without problems, we’ve been through this before!

153. elena - April 24, 2009

I wonder why Zakaria is copying my we!


154. nigel harris price - April 24, 2009

“Oh, I wish I was a punk-rocker
With flowers in my hair;
In ’77 and ’69
Revolution was in the air;
I was born too late
Into a world that doesn’t care;
Oh, I wish I was a punk-rocker
With flowers in my hair”

(Sandy Thom)

155. elena - April 24, 2009

“Seeing the nature of the division in oneself (good vs. bad, higher vs. lower, sick vs. sane, me vs. elena) including how both sides need each other to exist, begins to defuse the power of each.”

I hadn’t seen this Whalerider and Oh no, no, you’ve got it all wrong, there’s no me vs elena, you think I’m running against you? For Christ’s sake, give me some credit!

156. WhaleRider - April 24, 2009

“There’s Tonto now, Nigel, and the pilgrimage is on its way so I really should get going!”

As my grandmother used to say, “don’t let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you.”

BTW, “Tonto” was the The Lone Ranger’s Indian sidekick. Tonto’s horse was named, “Scout”.

So the Lone Ranger and Tonto walked into a bar and sat down to drink a beer. After a few minutes, a big tall cowboy walked in and said, “Who owns the big white horse outside?”

The Lone Ranger stood up, hitched his gun belt, and said, “I do – Why?”

The cowboy looked at the Lone Ranger and said, “I just thought you’d like to know that your horse is about dead outside!”

The Lone Ranger and Tonto rushed outside and sure enough Silver was ready to die from heat exhaustion. The Lone Ranger got the horse water and soon Silver was starting to feel a little better.

The Lone Ranger turned to Tonto and said, “Tonto, I want you to run around Silver and see if you can create enough of a breeze to make him start to feel better.”

Tonto said, “Sure, Kemosabe” and took off running circles around Silver.

Not able to do anything else but wait, the Lone Ranger returned to the bar to finish his drink.

A few minutes later, another cowboy struts into the bar and asks, “Who owns that big white horse outside?”

The Lone Ranger stands again, and claims, “I do – what’s wrong with him this time?”

The cowboy looks him in the eye and says, “Nothin’, but looks like ya left your Injun running.”

157. elena - April 25, 2009

Cute Whalerider, looks like you never really learnt how to turn it off!
No wonder you boys have an attitude when this is the stuff you’re made of!

Woman and as stupid as Tonto! Great subject for more satire, wasn’t humor what you were asking for? You could continue treating us with more of your delightful ass stories, the claps are guaranteed or maybe now this pseudo racism comes better to your public’s taste?

I was of course about to leave, maybe you’d like to give me a chance now?

158. elena - April 25, 2009

Oh Whalerider, forgot to thank you for informing me each time deeper about the essence of the public here. It makes it so much easier to understand things!

159. nigel harris price - April 25, 2009

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Lone Ranger, not knowing Tonto was disguised as a door, shot the knob off!…..Nigel.

160. elena - April 25, 2009

No Nigel, don’t think the Lone Ranger can shoot the knob off, he doesn’t know how to aim unless it’s a rocket and eight are involved! There was no reason to be here in the first place. Tonto always belonged elsewhere! He would’ve known it if he weren’t so Tonto! He loves playing with his hat though and is happily riding his way back home! It’s been a thoroughly instructive visit to the North! When he gets home he’ll inform the natives that they just love playing with dicks up there! All sizes and without thumbs!

You take good care of your self!

161. nigel harris price - April 25, 2009

Oh, well. check-mate on your part!…..Nigel.

162. Ill Never Tell - April 25, 2009

‘And the vendor said “all change must come from within”.’

Why is it that, when people want to comment on a subject at discussion, it is said: ‘Can I put my two cents worth in?’ But, when someone is asked to tell their thoughts on a subject, it is said: ‘A penny for your thoughts?’

Something is off on that financial balance sheet. Your thoughts are worth less (Or, is that worthless?) when someone wants them on demand than when you are offering to supply them. Perhaps you think they are worth more than they should be? Maybe it has something to do with that expression: ‘Learn how to turn on a dime and give two cents change.’ Bruce, would you like to quip?

– – – – – –

‘136. Yesri Baba:
131 Panoritsa:
Sucked weeners.’

For every sucked weener there will be ‘one with everything.’ ‘Eureka!’ ‘Oneness is every where.’ Weeners will be signed, by the Teacher, with personal deadickation, at the tattoo parlor.

– – – – – –

140. WhaleRider:
‘Robert E. Burton, age 70. . .’ Correction: age 69 (his favorite number – bet you thought it was ’44’), until some day in May.

Dimitri Slavekov is wrong name.
Should be Dimitri Slavalot.
Not Russky. Maybe from Transylvania or Lower Slobovia. Someone have bats in belfry at House of Dracula.

And that’s Vassalslave Kazandaagz, to you, WhaleBone!

‘“I cut off my family, I cut off my friends, I even cut off my thumbs!” and then breaking down in tears.’

Did not cut off the ‘personal deadickation.’

144. WhaleRider:

‘going to show his followers how to fit a camel through the eye of a needle.’

Don’t you mean: ‘going to show his followers how to needle a camel through the eye of a fit.’ That should push the envelope for more donations as the membership is needled to a fit. Care to needle that one, Bruce?

Hey, WhaleRider, why won’t the Fellowship ever have a whale in Oregon House? Because Burton could not stand to have more than one big fish in a little pond. (Just joking. I know a whale when I see one and a whale is not a fish. It’s a mammal.)

Six months ago the Fellowship was supposed to be getting a giraffe or two. What happened?

Getting anything done around there is like mating elephants. It’s done on a very high level. There’s a lot of stomping and screaming involved.
And it takes two years to get any results. (Besides, watch out for what’s in that trunk. Don’t let it get truncated.)

163. Mikey - April 25, 2009

Without the slightest tinge of humor or spite, I hope that one day you will (re)gain some sensibility. In the meantime, elena, on and on and on you spin like a broken record.

164. 411 - April 25, 2009

Since this page seems to be more about a humor thread than an information thread, I thought I’d Google “Fellowship Of Friends” to see what came up. This blog came up on the list as #4 and the link takes you to the first page of the blog from 2006. In fact here is one of the entries. It was #14. Just a reminder of the flavor of the blog from 2006.

“X Says:

November 30, 2006 at 8:14 am
I am a member of FOF for over 15 years, and my sincere advise to all seekers : RUN!!! Because if you join, you’ll subject yourself to the influence which will INEVITABLY twist your understanding and ability to think and make decisions, infuse you with fear of life outside the Fellowship, and develop protective mechanisms (or what we call buffers) to justify your new beliefs. Just like the member who posted above, you’ll learn about the lies, corruption and abuse, but you’ll prefer to “not notice”. Yes, that’s what happens. Because if you say something – you’re out!
Regardless if you were there for 30 years faithfully paying your 10% – you’ll get a boot, and no one will talk to you, all your “friends” wil turn away. Because they are told so, and they are afraid. Cold, cruel policy with no conscience or compassion. Well, I guess, slaves don’t get compassion – and members are slaves!
Essentially, the school is like a drug – a psycological one – you’ll get dependent and will not be able to quit. You’ll hallucinate too, and will see things twisted and colored the way your teacher wants them to be. Please trust me, I speak from personal (withdrawal) experience.
As for awakening, we are told in the school that it will take life-times, and endless efforts (read the member above) and as of today NOT A SINGLE PERSON in our school achieved awakening or even got close. Even all those 30-year members – none except for one devoted party-liner whom teacher announced as an enlightened being, I guess to make things look good for others.
Long-term memers become so affected by this “teaching” that they cannot adapt to regular life anymore. To many the teacher became a father figure. (Often a sex-father-figure).
By the way, it’s not 4th way school. It’s just on the cover. 4th way is long gone. It’s “Robert’s teaching”, and what it really means is total obedience, trained behaviour, manners and dress code, huge monthly payments, and crazy ideas. They are not even ideas, they are some codes and his “keys” to the Bible and ancient texts, short prayers and symbols – not rational, not meaningful, not even funny. No questions allowed, no verifications, no doubts. Very religious. Does it look like 4th way to you?
People in the group often act like police – watch, listen and then – report. It is so corrupted, there is so much money squeezed out of students – just to create a very, very high lifestyle for the Teacher. Oh, he is actually Beloved Teacher.
This School will not bring you to awakening. It will enslave you.
But to be fare – in first 2 -3 years you’ll get to know some very cool people, learn some basic Ouspensky terminology and will actually be able to observe more of yourself and others. You’ll even have some fun! Probably travel to different places and meet people from other countries. You’ll experience fine dining (very expensive though), high class events in rose gardens with fountains (again -it ain’t free), learn some manners and get some class. You’ll look good in toxedo! Women are not allowed to wear pants or jeans, so buy some nice dresses, ladies.

But fun will end, the longer you stay the deeper you sink. And just like the animal who was caged his whole life, you’ll lose sence of freedom and will start defending your cage.

Why i don’t list my name? For the fear of prosecution of course. Why I don’t leave the group? I think the time hasn’t come yet, and there are people in the group in need of support and help. I have dear friends who are stuck and I fell it’s my duty to try helping them. If I get kicked out they may not be able to communicate with me.
If you really feel “spiritual” – check out some Advaita teachers, like Sailor Bob Adamson, Tony Parsons or Adyashanti – much cooler! Don’t pay Robert, he’s already making 5 mil a year from his students (not kidding).”

165. peter - April 25, 2009

166. Jomo Piñata - April 25, 2009

Elephants at Apollo? Surely the person who has decided they should be imported to serve as his narcissistic supply hasn’t thought of them as members of an ECOSYSTEM or of a HERD or of a FAMILY, any more than any other member of the Fellowship.

So Fellowship members, lone wolves, and elephants are all in the same boat.

See “Lone Wolves and Rogue Elephants: Emotional Cutoff Among Animals” by Anthony J. Wilgus, at p. 67 of this book:


167. Jomo Piñata - April 25, 2009

Above should read, “So Fellowship members, lone wolves, and ROGUE elephants are all in the same boat.”

168. harryhindsight - April 25, 2009

Just heard that Robert has shot one of the dromedaries!

First time he’s smoked a Camel in 40 years.

169. ton - April 25, 2009

168…. the only thing he smokes is cock.

170. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

169 ton

“That which is crooked cannot be made straight” (The Bible)

171. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

I had thought about why it had taken me so long (20 years!) from the time of having left the Fellowship to this time now of beauty-in-the-activity-of-my-trade. I now know that a mighty tree must have strong roots and the ‘grounding’ of a human soul must be in that of the people…..

By W B Yeats

‘What have I earned for all that work,’ I said,
‘For all that I have done at my own charge?
The daily spite of this unmannerly town,
Where who has served the most is most defamed,
The reputation of his lifetime lost
Between the night and morning. I might have lived,
And you know well how great the longing has been,
Where every day my footfall should have lit
In the green shadow of Ferrara wall;
Or climbed among the images of the past –
The unperturbed and courtly images –
Evening and morning, the steep street of Urbino
To where the Duchess and her people talked
The stately midnight until they stood
In their great window looking at the dawn;
I might have had no friend that could not mix
Courtesy and passion into one like those
That saw the wicks grow yellow in the dawn;
I might have used the one substantial right
My trade allows; chosen my company,
And chosen what scenery pleased me best,’
Thereon my phoenix answered in reproof,
‘The drunkards, pilferers of public funds,
All the dishonest crowd I had driven away,
When my luck changed and they dared meet my face,
Crawled from obscurity, and set upon me
Those I had served and some that I had fed;
Yet never have I, now nor any time,
Complained of the people.’

All I could reply
Was: ‘You, that have not lived in thought but deed,
Can have the purity of a natural force,
But I, whose virtues are the definitions
Of the analytic mind, can neither close
The eye of the mind nor keep my tongue from speech.’
And yet, because my heart leaped at her words,
I was abashed, and now they come to mind
After nine years, I sink my head abashed.

172. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

There was some consternation among the populace of my city of Exeter, when the sculpture was erected in Heavitree, on the corner of Paul Street, by the old gun shop. But, it is in the nature of humans to ‘stir up trouble’ without looking at the ‘inner nature’ of things…..

Poetry on Heavitree Sculpture 2009

“The world should lose her qualities if the celestial spheres should forget their wanted motions; if nature should intermit her colours and leave altogether the observations of her own laws: if the moon should wander from her beaten way; the times and seasons blend themselves by disordered and confused mixture: what shall become of man who sees not plainly that obedience unto the laws of nature is the stay of the whole world.”

173. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

168 harryhindsight

Thought you might like this about REB…..

“If there arise among you a prophet, or dreamer of dreams, and give thee a sign or wonder,
And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Thou shall not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God proveth you, to prove whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death, because HE HATH SPOKEN TO TURN YOU AWAY…..”

174. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

173 It is from Deuteronomy…..Nigel.

175. Bares Reposting - April 26, 2009

166. Jomo Piñata:

‘Elephants at Apollo? Surely the person who has decided they should be imported to serve as his narcissistic supply hasn’t thought of them as members of an ECOSYSTEM or of a HERD or of a FAMILY, any more than any other member of the Fellowship.’

No doubt, you know the expression: ‘Shot heard ’round the world’ from the American Revolutionary War poem: “Concord Hymn” (1836), by Ralph Waldo Emerson; reproduced below. Emerson wrote this for dedication of the Obelisk, a battle monument in Concord, Massachusetts that commemorated the men that gave their lives. The first stanza of the poem is inscribed at the base of The Minute Man statue, by Daniel Chester French, that stands at the Old North Bridge, Concord, Massachusetts. [Of course, there were other ‘shots heard ’round the world.’ Like the start of one, or both, of the world wars or atomic weapons usage.]

Concord Hymn

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April’s breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard round the world.

The foe long since in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And Time the ruined bridge has swept
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.

On this green bank, by this soft stream,
We set to-day a votive stone;
That memory may their deed redeem,
When, like our sires, our sons are gone.

Spirit, that made those heroes dare,
To die, and leave their children free,
Bid Time and Nature gently spare
The shaft we raise to them and Thee.

Well, the elephants are coming to Apollo as a herd. The reason is that the elephants are being trained to go into outer space on the next Apollo Space Mission. (Seems that there is a need to open a remote Fellowship of Friends (FoF) Center somewhere out there since nobody on Earth wants to join. Secret advanced information has it that likely destination is Jupiter. (Zeus (or, is that Zoos?) to those in FoF.)) No less than eight will go. They must be physically fit, be current and advanced with their donations, have adequate excess financial resources (They must pay their way and, just in case they don’t make it back, the Fellowship of Friends will get property rights.), occupy diverse places on the enneagram, have varied centers of gravity (Centers of gravity are very important in outer space.) that associate with their dedicated responsibilities, and most importantly, they must have gold alchemy (no wayward particles of elephant dung, or other bodily secretions, could be tolerated.). Chief features are optional. Mission is highly dependent upon the elephant ability to never forget; which is the same as ‘always remember.’ Photographic memory will be highly rewarded.

Once the elephants are prepared – they are a delicacy – they will be served (oops, wrong book – I am also working on a cookbook) – they will serve as emissaries of life on Earth in celebration of Earth Day 2010 – 40 years from the first Earth Day (U.S.A.).

Much financial resources are needed for this project, so please make your donations liberally, in advance, and/or plain outright gifts will not be refused. Please address them to Robert Earl Burton, the Beloved Teacher of the Fellowship of Friends, along with a museum quality greeting card – include your favorite quotation from the Propylaia Quotation Database. Make sure your full name and center appear in appropriate places but do not mar the museum quality greeting card with such baseness. (Besides, those cards get recycled and sent out as ‘thank you’ notes to other people who have donated.) All contributions are eligible for tax deductions but, please, consult your tax adviser. (My advise: Trust in Allah; but tie your camel first.)

In order to promote this project, both in and out of the Fellowship, a marketing ad hoc committee was formed and a unique slogan was developed: This will be the ‘First Herd Shot ‘Round the World’ space program.

It is fully intended to upstage:

High diddle diddle,
The Cat and the Fiddle,
The Cow jump’d over the Moon,
The little dog laugh’d to see such Craft,
And the Dish ran away with the Spoon.

Talk about ‘food for the moon!’ This one really takes the cake.

‘Let them eat cake.’ Attributed to Marie Antoinette (and others).

176. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

175 Bares Reposting

Since Sunday is a serious, and emotional, day for me I thought I would include this piece of poetry from the Exmouth (Devon) War Memorial…..

“Easy days of peace may come and go,
And tide and time may drift us far apart;
But you who shared our savage yesterday,
Shall have the highest places in our heart”

177. Bares Reposting - April 26, 2009

Re: 175. Bares Reposting

Since the aforementioned Apollo Space Mission is a Mission: Impossible, in the event that the Impossible Missions Force (IMF) Director, or any of the IM Force, were to get caught, killed, or otherwise identified, the Secretary would disavow any knowledge of the actions. Anyone holding the above knowledge may be subject to termination in order to prevent further spread of such knowledge. This recording, the dossier, this blog, and all pertinent materials will self-destruct in four seconds. May the fours be with you. Good luck.

178. ton - April 26, 2009

177 ‘apollo mission’ —

reflection…. i am thankful to be so fortunate, for the many blessings this life has brought and i’m thankful that i was able to ascend from the fof mire and morass (no pun intended)… i start somewhere, sometimes it begins with a simple prayer, an intention as a place from which to engage the will to find a means to an end… where will it lead?

hear my prayer; end the sickness, depravity and abuse at ‘apollo’

179. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

178 ton

Dear Ton
Thank you for the ‘link’ – firewater, which reminds me of when I go for a beer at the Fisherman’s Cott, the pub near my workshop. The River Exe surges by over the weir (‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ was supposedly thought up here) and I am a firesign (Sagittarius – missed Scorpio by a day and a half!). My ‘holistic therapist’ student advises me to have a relationship with the river – let it talk to you – that’s my prayer these days -that and sitting by Bickleigh Mill and watching the rooks a’racking (the noise they make). I have plenty of time to ‘smell the roses’, as they say. Funny, when I was in the Fellowship, it was accelerated time – despair and monetary madness. Now, I find that, as Rodney Collin stated, “More fear, less time; less fear, more time”. I have found so many friends in my life – real ones – now I have left the Fellowship – both in my everyday life – social-wise and my students – and here on the blog – you, whalerider, elena, crouching tiger, ellen, lauralupa and so on. I actually have no fear of death – just the knowing that my business and its assets must continue after my demise (rocketing off into the spirit realms). Something to work for – we must all find something joyful to work at…..Nigel.

180. harryhindsight - April 26, 2009

174, Nigel.

Thought it was Deuterdromedary.

181. nigel harris price - April 26, 2009

180 harryhindsight

You really give me the hump (P.S. I never got ‘humped’ by REB!!!!!)…..Nigel.

182. harryhindsight - April 27, 2009

Since you were hump free, I’ll call you humphrey from now on.


183. James Mclemore - April 27, 2009

This also bares reposting……..

“we must all find something joyful to work at…..” Nigel.

184. Jomo Piñata - April 27, 2009

177/Bares Reposting

Obviously you were one of the Fantastic Fours:


185. James Mclemore - April 27, 2009

184. Jomo Piñata

Thank you. That is funny stuff!! You have captured his ‘voice’, which is also a little frightening, in that I swear I can hear him speaking.

186. nigel harris price - April 27, 2009

The point is – to know who is ‘doing’ what…..

“From a distance, we are instruments,
Marching in a common band;
Singing songs of hope,
Singing songs of love,
It’s the song of every man.”

‘From a Distance’ (Bette Midler)

187. elena - April 27, 2009

God I’ve missed you!

I promise I’ll actually die one of these days hopefully when I’m around ninety!

I’ve been studying a little and found this that seems pertinent to this blog and goes especially for you Nigel.

In Anthroposophical medicine which, in my humble opinion is based on the same structure that the System holds but has gone about a hundred steps further as the System would have if anyone had continued Rodney Collin’s work, the emotional centre is related to animals who move freely in space and therefore to movement which is used as a means to heal such things as depression. There’s that similarity in other interpretations but related to fairy tales in children’s stories. The book is expensive and not on the internet to give you an address and the chapter long but I’ll reproduce a few things. This is from Chapter 3 Movement: healing the Emotional Body by Jaimen McMillan and the book is called The Fourfold Path to healing by Thomas S. Cowan MD. I didn’t like the guy when I met him so have no interest in selling him but the book is proving precious.

“Steiner’s description of the fourfold human body suggests a different approach to emotional healing. As we have discussed the physical body corresponds to the mineral kingdom; the Life-force or etheric body to the watery realm of the plant kingdom; the emotional or soul body corresponds to the animal kingdom, which breathes air and moves in space; and the mental body, unique to man, is the seat of the spirit. It corresponds to the higher vibration of fire and the electric activity of integrative thinking.

An integrative approach suggests that when we set out to heal our emotions, the most appropriate starting point is the realm of motion – movement and exercise. This is because the way we move is dictated by how we feel. Our “body language” tells people whether we are happy or depressed, centered or hysterical, constricted or free. If we can alter our body language, if we can consciously change the way we move through space, we can actually change the way we feel, and even the way we think.

…..Each illness has its own gesture. If we can create new gestures, we can break the vicious cycle of illness, healing can take place.

…Emotions. E-motions

The emotional body actually moves in three interpenetrating spaces: the space within your body, the form of your body space, and the space roughly an arm’s length around your body. Even the subtlest shift in the relationship of these spaces to each other will elicit a feeling. According to this theory, the shift in these special relationships comes first and the experience of having a feeling follows. It is impossible to have a feeling without first “being moved”. It is the movement in the spaces which causes the feeling in the first place. The feeling we experience is indeed then an “emotion”, that is “from motion” or “out of motion”.

Spacial Dynamics is the study and discipline of enhancing the growing human being’s relationship to his or her body and surrounding space through appropriate movement and gestures.

…Health is a process involving balance and change… not a state but a dynamic.

…Our modern western civilization tends to delude us with the promise of “possessing” perfect health. We therefore often go to great lengths to squelch the first symptoms of any illness. We may go even further by exalting everything youthful and despising all things associates with old age. We view illness as something we fear; aging as something to delay at all costs and death as the ultimate failure. But anyone who promises that you will never get sick, will always stay young or will never die is either lying or trying to cheat you. In every cell and at every moment, life and death processes are active simultaneously. The cycle of life is in constant movement, and the soul rides the tides of life’s ebbs and flows. Sickness, gentle aging and death are not only unavoidable, but are real gifts for soul development.

(The more I read the more it contrasts with Fellowship thinking and Robert’s desperate attempt to hide processes of death from the Fellowship condemning us to a fixed gold alchemy paradise in which life is impossible)

…The word health comes from whole…

One of the greatest threats to health in our society is the emphasis on self-sufficiency. We are taught that we are strong when we need nothing and no one. But no person is an island. No organism lives in a vacuum. In fact, a healthy organism is one that has a vibrant interaction with its environment. This successful interplay is called synergy; it is no less than the dance of life. The glorification of isolated independence is a major reason for the epidemic of alienation and loneliness that prevails in our society. These souls states are simultaneously expressed in a compartmentalization of the physical body and a lack of connection with others. This sense of lack becomes locked into various body parts and expresses itself through certain gestures, ultimately leadin to a sense of separation of the four bodies – physical, life-force, Emotional and mental.

…the soul has the ability to have contradictory feelings at the same time. For many people, these contradictory or changing feelings are uncomfortable or confusing. That is because we may unnecessarily hold on to a limited identity or ideal…

It’s very long, about forty pages, so more can come later if there’s the inspiration which now is very strong because so many around me have been rather depressed and I’m eagerly looking for practical things that can help. If we are aware of the principle I’m sure anyone can put it into practice in their own way. It’s no casualty that we jump with joy or move slowly and depressed when depressed, jumping a little each day ought to be helpful if common sense works!!
The first movement it suggests is:

Sit as if by the ocean and when the wave is coming towards you breath in. 2,When it stops to return, stop with it and 3, exhale as it moves back out. 4,When it is turning back towards you stop while it does it and inhale again as it comes towards you.

Good luck!

P.S. Of course Robert has moving centered exercises in which we were supposed to look well but they are directed towards looking as though everything about the Fellowship is perfect and so are we because we are FORCED to not identify with the perceptions of absurdity in the whole experiment. Elegant movements but not exercise. WORK, physical labour but not dancing. Useful movement directed at efficiency but not for the joy of life. There’s the horror. But plenty of sex. All connected.

188. Another Name - April 27, 2009

Do you all think that humor is healing? Aunt Bet I doubled over….

Bring it on…..And we were part of the hoax for so many years…..

What were we thinking…we were not thinking……

189. WhaleRider - April 27, 2009

Thanks Jomo, for Aunt Bea. You’ve captured the essence of Burton’s toxic “stream of unconsciousness”. It’s no wonder there is a “no wit” exercise in the FOF, it’s for their own protection. Someone might die laughing…

190. Wouldnt You Like To Know - April 27, 2009

187. elena:
‘. . .healing the Emotional Body. . .’

Here is something you might find useful:

Emotional Body Enlightenment (EBE)

EBE, or Emotional Body Enlightenment is a rigorous spiritual practice for enlightenment of the human emotional body. Even though it directly confronts the shadow of the human psyche and redefines the criteria for psychoemotional maturity, EBE is not psychotherapy. As such, EBE gives us access to our unconscious emotional landscape in the form of very real and dynamic subpersonalities whose architectures and textures go far beyond other commonly known traditional or alternative subself-based therapies.

EBE also offers that the core of wounding from childhood is not caused by repressed traumas or any kinds of neglect or abuse behaviors by caregivers, but by our inability to emotionally digest the pain of not having been able to feel our caregivers feel what we were feeling while we were feeling it, as children. This kind of consistent and undefended open heartedness is impossible to embody for children unless parents have healed their own emotional body congestion prior to having children.

According to EBE, this pain of our inability to feel our caregivers feel how we felt as we grew and developed, is stored as universal subpersonalities of Hurt, Anxiety, Rage, Control, Depression, Shame, Core Unworth, Core Disconnect, and a triad of accompanying defenses which create what EBE calls the Strategic Self. In this way, EBE sees our emotional body architecture as universal in the same way we all possess the same physical body architecture.

EBE teaches that the Strategic Self masquerades as who you think you really are at this moment. As such, only when the Strategic Self surrenders its lifelong effort to avoid pain and seek happiness, and moves to a way of life which confronts pain and seeks realness, can true transmutation, and not just self-improvement, occur. This happens when a new healthier Head of Household gradually emerges as the wounded subpersonalities of Hurt, Anxiety, Rage, Control, Depression, Shame, Core Unworth, and Core Disconnect are contacted, loved, and healed into Vulnerability, Trust, Conviction, Management, Riskability, Self-acceptance, Innate Goodness, and Innate Seat of Being, respectively.

The Strategic Self is the architect of all of our addictions and medications. These are not just the common forms of alcohol, drugs, codependence, and compulsive behavior patterns most therapies target, but societally-accepted forms of living that have unconscious medicative effect in the way we relate to our intellectual capacities, marriages, intimate partnerships, careers, religious and spiritual practices, and even friends and acquaintances. Along the way, EBE thus gives us an entirely new ground for how we define and experience love, and thus how one experiences and transacts love with Self, with others, and with God. Without a true core of personal self-worth, which EBE maintains is not now possible to attain using current psychological paradigms, therapeutic practices, or spiritual attainment work, we will be forever locked out of experiencing the true range and depth of love’s countless vibrations of expression.

From a spiritual perspective, the self-love of core emotional worth manifests as a final flowering of our first three chakras, which EBE maintains traditional and modern spiritual teachers and leaders have never attained because of how traditional spiritual paradigms define the lower nature of the personal self or ego. In Theohumanity, ego is taught as real enough to inhabit fully enough to heal one’s unconscious masquerade of personal selfhood. As such, until our spiritual paradigms change to include the necessity of healing and not transcending the ego with a much more stringent criteria than has been available in either psychology or western new age spiritual paradigms, no spiritual teacher or leader will ever manifest the true apex of enlightenment or God-realization. This is prevented because the master, avatar, sage, or saint remains mired in unconscious pain, conflict, and strategy covered over by Love-based or nondual Aspects of God or Consciousness. Without EBE, an enlightened teacher will only have enlightened their own Strategic Self and not their as-yet-unmanifested authentic self, resulting in all the distortions and unenlightened behaviors always exhibited by all enlightened teachers past and present, including the Buddha, yeshua, and other well-known historical teachers.

As the first spiritual practice ever offered for the enlightenment of the human emotional body, EBE is thus not for everyone. Only those deeply frustrated by the failure of years or decades of psychological or spiritual effort to heal core issues, or those truly interested in literally changing their worlds from the inside-out, will summon the resolve to be able to bear the deconstruction of their current personality themes and life manifestations. Only in that way are we ever able to create an emotional body fit and supple enough to impart a new ground experience of life, of love, and of one’s most authentic place in the world.

Text written by DS Barron

191. Wouldnt You Like To Know - April 27, 2009

187. elena:
‘. . .healing the Emotional Body. . .’

This one, too, I hope you find useful:

Emotional Freedom Technique

192. Ellen - April 27, 2009

Hi All,
Here’s an interesting article from this weekend’s NY Times:

193. Kid Shelleen - April 27, 2009


Thanks for the great article. It was funny that it made me flash on a quote from Ken Kesey that I haven’t thought about in years:

“Always stay in your own movie.”

194. elena - April 27, 2009

Wouldn’t you like to know,

Thanks for the texts. Don’t you find that there’s a lot of truth in almost everything? That people in general are trying to help each other one way or another and whatever it is they make up to realize that, helps to the extent that there is good will involved? I’ve been helped by traditional psychoanalists but think that even AAA groups help and even nurses in what ever hospital. Kindness always helps no matter the therapy. Perhaps that’s why the Fellowship is so harmful, because even kindness became extinct or so fake and made to the agenda that it lost the effect. The saddest aspect of the Fellowship is that it proves that good will can turn so badly against people. That enough knowledge has to accompany every process of faith.

Are you actually concerned with enlightenment and how much of it some acquired? That’s interesting but I must honestly tell you that I am not interested in enlightenment as I understand that word in so many contexts. For the time being, becoming reasonably human will suffice and I’m even still far from that!

The second text makes a lot of sense and relates to the text I offered you because it seems that indeed our tensions in different parts of the body reflect stagnant processes. “Moving” differently and giving the body a different expression probably makes the stagnant pain be remembered as Reich suggested and one could work with it consciously or conscientiously. I think we agree in that whatever the means, it is worth trying to move the fixations so that we can breathe and live more freely and fully.

Thank you for sharing, have a lovely evening!

195. nigel harris price - April 27, 2009

187 elena

Movement to avoid depression and such like – I go along with that!..It was actually one of those days. Business is stepping up…..physically, financially and emotionally. I was with my five wonderful craft-ladies tonight – Emma and Jenny (both teachers of secondary art-education), Lily (Jenny’s daughter, whose 22nd birthday is tomorrow, and Sally and Linzi (both ‘punky’ Martials with a wicked streak). As Sting suggested, I ‘let my soul be my pilot’ and used humour, striving for better standards and concentrative energy in what proved to be one of the most successful classes (both for the students and myself) that I have ever taught. I feel it is a ‘privelege not to be abused’ to be a True Teacher, having studied to be one, in the standards of life-education. Damn that flagrant faggot Burton with his sick followers and ‘hangers-on’. The Number of the Beast is certainly Sick, Sick Sex…..Nigel.

196. nigel harris price - April 27, 2009

194 elena

Right on gal!

“These words are true; these days are ours” (Paul Simon)

197. nigel harris price - April 27, 2009

190 Wouldnt You Like To Know

Thanks for the D S Barron – I am in several minds, as it were, about my present ‘synthetic anti-psychotic medication’, since no matter how many ‘downers’ I take, I still keep being me at the present time – energetic, focussed, magnanimous and ‘God save us all’ almost uncontrollably happy – it’s infectious, but I still keep thinking something has to go wrong – after all, I have already had two failed businesses…..maybe I am now doing a ‘Walt Disney’, who was twice bankrupt before being successful with his beautifully-childlike interpretaions of the human psyche.

“When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are; everything your heart desires, will come to you” (frm the WD film ‘Dumbo’)…..Nigel.

198. nigel harris price - April 27, 2009

“Goodnight, and may your God go with you” (Dave Allen, famous Irish comedian)…..Nigel.

199. The FOFion - April 28, 2009

FOF Launches New Pro-Wit Exercise

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — After years of discouraging unsanctioned wit, Fellowship of Friends Top Teacher Robert Burton has ordered a change in emphasis: Beginning today, students have been asked to avoid not being funny.

“Not being funny has became way too mechanical and habitual,” Burton said in an exclusive interview with The FOFion on Monday. “So we needed to mix things up a bit. People started misinterpreting the intent of the so-called wit exercise. They actually believed I wanted them to be dry and boring [laughing out loud]. Well, I’ve come to believe this has severely hampered the level of being of the school.”

The new rule is called the Pro-Wit Exercise (PWE). With PWE, students who say anything — anything at all — that is not humorous will immediately be removed from the school. And of course they will ultimately suffer fates worse than death because of their removal.

“This is not good, not good at all,” said one student. “I must be the least humorous person in the Fellowship.”

A passing fellow student, overhearing these humorless comments, promptly called someone “close to Robert.” Within a few minutes, two large men with Russian accents wearing sunglasses escorted him outside the gatehouse.

“I was just joking!” the now ex-student shouted, but the two security personnel simply tossed him onto the pavement.

“It ees too late; you vill regret,” one of them said matter-of-factly before walking away.

In response to the new rule, many students have begun taking comedy improv lessons in hopes they can come up with humorous quips and off-the-cuff remarks more readily. Others have taken the approach to avoid talking altogether, which — as some outside analysts believe — may be what Burton had in mind in the first place.

“If his goal was to keep people quiet so that few of his followers were aware of his true agenda, then he was really taking the wrong approach all those years with the Anti-Wit Exercise,” said one ex-student, who asked to remain anonymous. “The Pro-Wit Exercise will almost certainly keep people quiet.”

No one is yet sure who determines exactly what’s funny, and what isn’t… But some believe Bruce and Yesri Baba are being hired as outside consultants.

200. elena - April 28, 2009

I enjoy the noise of the bus and the car and the bicycle’s side wheels that brings a child to my door; The blue-pink sunset under which seven year old girls play soccer in the street against the boys, cry because an envious adult invades the game and picks them up so as not to hurt them as he runs.

And the old man sitting on the sidewalk at the top of the hill watching the pink blue sky turn dark and the lights of the city shine while the dog screams because we’re going for a stroll. There’s life in this neighborhood: a pride that comes from the stars and is held high with a smile.

201. Another Name - April 28, 2009

Thanks Ellen

That is something…..to digest and wish everybody in the fof or in any cult would be able to read.


202. WhaleRider - April 28, 2009

Great article, great contemporary themes…the trap of “specialness” and entitlement, hiding unresolved pain behind the vacant façade of authoritarian-sytle spirituality…“The Emperor Enlightenment May Have No Clothes”…and the courage it takes for a person to face their pain and cry their own tears…in order to be a whole person.

I also saw the film this weekend you recommended, “Syndeoche”. Wow, what a sobering film…also the story of a person seeking to look the stark truth in the eye and not flinch.

Thanks to the both of you, my life is enriched from your efforts. I hugged my kids a little tighter tonight.

203. Wouldnt You Like To Know - April 28, 2009

‘Anti-Wit Exercise,’ I presume, was called the AWE shucks exercise that is now called the AWE sucks exercise.

And, BTW, The FOFion, one important Oregon House factotum overlooked was the recent visit there of a Laughter Yoga teacher. They must have been secreted behind the scenes so no one would notice. (Ask around Oregon House about it and you might find a few laughs.) Hope you’re not sleeping on the job. Maybe you’re laughing on the job. It’s laughable when it is a bob job – laughable to the point of tears.

204. lauralupa - April 28, 2009

ellen, thanks for the article, and also ton and Jomo, thanks for suggesting Synedoche and Running with scissors… good food, good thoughts

205. lauralupa - April 28, 2009

actually, it’s “Synecdoche”, not an easy word to spell

206. lauralupa - April 28, 2009

from “Being present” April newsletter:

“The Heart
A wandering Knight without a Beloved is like a tree without leaves and fruit, or a body without a soul.
Miguel Cervantes

As the Steward develops from one’s psychology in its role of serving Presence, he discovers a companion equal to his attributes for struggling with sleep and who plays an equally fundamental role. This part maybe called the Heart, the seat of the emotional function, frequently represented in esoteric stories as feminine, Mary of the infant Jesus, Penelope for Odysseus, Radha as the lover of Krishna. One finds this femininity within one’s self, regardless of gender, by its relationship to the Steward’s role of strength, perseverance and single-minded purpose; Rhada has many names, the ‘one who sees Krishna within and without’ and the ‘only one able to enchant’ Krishna. The Steward discovers that the Heart is the origin of his strength, its primogenitor, although not its enactment. In esoteric stories, the Heart often plays a counselor who gives the Steward his direction and empowers his faculties, shows him a magic that his own resources had not conceived; eyes that can see the future, a seven-fold strength, a shield that neutrally reflects the face of a deadly enemy, and so on, powers and initiatives that he did not know he had until his aim to awaken had formed.

While the Steward is fashioned from unwavering efforts to become present, the Heart develops from sustaining and nourishing the power of this aim, and when one becomes present, selflessly withdraws so that presence will flourish. Without the Heart, the Steward becomes fixed, pedantic, wholly absorbed in effort for effort’s sake. The Heart is harmonious in its approach to awakening, sustaining when the will of the Steward is defeated, encouraging when there is a loss of direction, and with pure ardency, loves the Steward in his work for the sake of a higher world. When these two psychological entities unite within one, the benevolent beat of the Heart becomes the breath of the Steward.

The Steward strives, works for awakening; the Heart enjoys the pleasures that presence brings, the abundant experience of being alive, the magnitude of one’s life, and the small part it plays in the great, grand scale of everything else. Yet where the Steward might descend to dull repetition of efforts, the Heart without a Steward must give herself to whatever represents that role, to what she admires, even to the point of endangering herself, as Eve discovers from the serpent in the Garden of Eden. When the Steward emerges, the Heart is fulfilled in loving his aim to awaken. Freely, without fear, the Heart gives the lover her ardour from which his strength comes to seek the Beloved.

Freeing oneself from seeing the faults in others, helps one become more present”

Nice copywriting for a great imaginary duo, and here we go with another lovely Fellowship fairytale, the heroic romance between Steward the strong Knight and Heart the selfless Princess.
So much archetypal symbolism to make your head spin, but what does his noble tale really mean?

What part of the present can you see when your head is up in the clouds?

207. peter mac - April 28, 2009

lauralupa205……… enjoyed the bill callahan listened to it thrice and some of his others on u tube

208. Jomo Piñata - April 28, 2009

“Do you hear your language?”


“That’s what tends to happen to me.”

“What do you hear — that I sound like a victim?”

“There’s no agency in there — to see that is to open to the possibility of feeling less the victim in your life.”

“I know this intellectually. I’ve had this sense of being a victim, a marked man for a long time — marked for bad things and marked for great things.”

“I wonder if that isn’t a compensatory fantasy which hides a deeper pain. It’s not that ‘I was horrifically abandoned, unconscionably neglected,’ it’s ‘I have a special destiny.’ ”

“Yes,” Nordstrom said. “As a boy I consciously constructed this idea that I’m in a situation that makes no sense whatsoever. The only meaning I can glean from it is that there may be some kind of completely different life in store for me. There will be a compensation. I am owed.”

“What comes to mind with ‘owed’?”

“I’m entitled. That feeling got me through high school. It’s why I excelled at sports and studies.”

“It also killed you.”

The thought hung in the air.

“Why do you think I say that?” the psychoanalyst said.

“Because it’s true?”

“No, because it’s led to a passive detached relation to your own life. It’s robbed you of your human birthright. It’s like you are waiting for Godot. It keeps you in a virtual life. Do you get that? Do you feel that emotion?”

“This isn’t the first time you’ve said that this is the source of my suffering.”

“The vessel you took to escape your childhood became your prison cell. If we could move through that, I think it would open things even more.”


209. Jomo Piñata - April 28, 2009

The fellowship is a vessel which many members took to escape their childhood, and it became their prison cell. In my opinion.

210. WhaleRider - April 28, 2009

Cult Files for Odd Building Permits

Yuba County (AP)- In keeping with its often bizarre and controversial behavior, the Fellowship of Friends Pathway to Presence Cult of Esoteric Christianity, Inc. has recently filed plans at the Yuba County Building Department seeking approval for the construction of several “windmills” on its foothill property. Inside sources claim that the windmills are of “classical European design” and are not to generate clean energy from the wind, nor be used to grind flour either and will serve no purpose whatsoever other than for “chasing as sport”.

Apparently two camels, several llamas, a water buffalo, and a heard of Indian elephants are in route to be kept on the property and will be ridden by followers of “the Greatest Show on Earth” dressed as knights in shining armor to chase down and slay the windmills.

One critic of the cult stated, “It seems a natural progression for the group, we think they have been chasing windmills for years. Why would you chase something like the immovable present other than to hurt yourself.”

Other critics fear the worst. “Since the pro-wit exercise”, said one local critic, “things have really gotten strange. At the general store this morning I overheard one follower telling another a dirty joke they read on the blog about Tonto refusing to give The Lone Ranger a blowjob to save his life and the two followers were laughing hysterically. It was a stupid, immature joke. I didn’t think it was all that funny. They have gone off the deep end.” Many on the blog agree.

(Many thanks to FOFion and lauralupa, whose contributions served as inspiration for this article.)

211. lauralupa - April 28, 2009

The fellowship is a vessel which many members took to escape their childhood, and it became their prison cell.

yes, escaping from one’s painful natural childhood into another, artificially extended, contrived form of childhood without ever being able of coming to terms with life’s sometimes harsh realities and maturing into adulthood… and at the same time having lost all of childhood’s inclination for imagination, playfulness and spontaneity… prisoner of an estranged, small compassless vessel instead of swimming in the vast ocean of life

I jumped in the river and what did I see?
Black-eyed angels swam with me
A moon full of stars and astral cards
All the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and futures
And we all went to heaven in a little row boat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt

212. lauralupa - April 28, 2009

embedding didn’t work for that video, anyway it’s Radiohead’s Pyramid Song, you can go on YouTube if you like and listen to it. Awesome song, I believe.
BTW, I’d like to mention that a new book called “Radiohead and Philosophy – Fitter Happier More Deductive” just came out, including chapters with titles like “Evil and Politics in Hail to the Thief”, “The Signature of Time in “Pyramid Song”, and “Kid A as a Musing on the Post-Modern Condition”…

213. Walter J. Tanner - April 28, 2009

Being naïve enough to get just about everyone pissed off at some point, I would like to ask a question of this blog’s etiquette:

I have been hesitant in responding to a certain poster, or to the issues that he (to his credit) has brought up. It is because as the Regional Coordinator for the Northeast U.S.A. of the Fellowship of Friends, I was called upon to make a judgment call on the psychological character of said poster. I have well ‘verified’ the identity of this poster.

What do you all think? What should I say or not say at this point?

Thank you, all,


N.B.: My use of the third person masculine pronoun does not signal the gender of the referent.

214. Opus 111 - April 28, 2009


You can say whatever you see fit.

My point is that if you do not know, how is anyone here going to “know” better?


215. nigel harris price - April 28, 2009

206 lauralupa

I ‘came up with’ a little interpretation of male/female chivalry of my own…..

“A short history of the sword. The sword of war points down, indicating that battle has ended in the earthing of struggle. However, the Sword of Illumination points ever upwards, indicating Aspiration. The Spirit, as masculine aspiration, is the blade of the sword, cutting through Illusion, but finding its Rest and Holding in the hilt, or feminine cradle as Soul. The pummel or handle of the sword represents the struggle and bludgeoned efforts” (I can send you a design rendering to your mailing address).

This whole FOF thing of the steward is at total odds with the 4th Way doctrine which states that the steward itself must ultimately fail so that the Self (marriage of Soul and Spirit) may emerge from a matured Essence.

I hope this may prove a source of intellectual/emotional nourishment in your personal efforts…..Nigel.

216. James Mclemore - April 28, 2009

213. Walter J. Tanner

I am a bit confused by the question. I am assuming that neither you nor this person are in the fof any longer. You are speaking of something that happened somewhere in the past. Whoever this person is, they are no longer who or what you thought they were (which was only a guess on your part anyway), and you are (I would guess) no longer who you thought you were while you were in, what could appear to be, a powerful position inside the fantasy world of the fof. Maybe I am missing something, but I just don’t get it. Why would it be important to you to possibly re-hash something that happened in the past, inside of a cult where to some extent nobody knew who they were? If there are feelings of remorse on your part that you feel the need to deal with, and since you say you know who they are, perhaps you could try and contact this person privately.

217. WhaleRider - April 28, 2009

“While the Steward is fashioned from unwavering efforts to become present, the Heart develops from sustaining and nourishing the power of this aim, and when one becomes present, selflessly withdraws so that presence will flourish.”

I gotta say, this statement creeps out my “female side”…all the gender metaphors sounding like a subliminal excuse for male domination to me…or an attempt to override the emotional gag response and thus justify anything, including Burtons’ sleaziness, in the obsessive and futile pursuit of “presence”, something that we already possess and that FOF followers continually have to convince themselves they are without…in an effort to deny and sacrifice essential parts of themselves and thus remain in a blissful, infantile state of perpetual surrender to a male authority figure.

218. brucelevy - April 28, 2009

213. Walter J. Tanner

What the hell are you talking about?

219. Jomo Piñata - April 29, 2009


Think in terms of a “Truth and Reconciliation Commission.” Fess up to what you did and what you were told to do and respond to the other poster from who you are.

My two cents.

220. Jomo Piñata - April 29, 2009

Except that I wouldn’t out him or her.

221. The FOFion - April 29, 2009

Havenot Stuns Senate with Defection to Blogian Party

WASHINGTON (ARK) – In a parallel universe, veteran FOFion Gerald Havenot of California switched parties Tuesday with a suddenness that seemed to stun the Senate, a moderate’s defection that pushed Blogians to within a vote of the 60 needed to overcome filibusters and enact the president’s top legislative priorities.

Havenot, 59 and seeking a sixth term in 2010, conceded bluntly that his chances of winning a California FOFion primary next year were bleak in a party grown increasingly weird. But he cast his decision as one of principle, rather than fueled by political ambition as spurned FOFion leaders alleged.

“I have found myself increasingly at odds with the FOFion philosophy and more in line with the philosophy of the Blogian Party,” he said at a news conference. He added, “I am not prepared to have my 39 year record in the United States Senate decided by the California FOFion primary electorate.”

Not long after Havenot met privately with FOFion senators to explain his decision, the party’s leader, Sen. Robert Burton, said the switch posed a “threat to the school — not mention, my fun and enjoyment.” The issue, he said, “really relates to … whether or not in the Fellowship of Friends our members want the majority party to have whatever it wants, without restraint, without a check or balance. We can’t have our members actually thinking freely and making informed decisions about their membership.”

As a result of last fall’s elections, Blogians control the White House and have a large majority in the House. Havenot’s switch leaves them with 59 Senate seats. Blogian Hal Frankfurter is ahead in a marathon recount in Minnesota. If he ultimately defeats FOFion Storm Noman, he would become the party’s 60th vote — the number needed to overcome a filibuster that might otherwise block legislation.

In other news, a prominent Blogian party insider wants to know “What the hell is he is talking about?” following a rather vague statement before the media.

222. The FOFion - April 29, 2009

Swine Flu Refused Entry Past Gatehouse

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Swine Flu organisms were refused entry past the Fellowship of Friends gatehouse Tuesday.

“Everything is completely healthy here,” said FOF spokesperson Robert Burton. “We can’t have our students exposed to anything unhealthy.”

223. elena - April 29, 2009

Thanks Laura for the videos and Ellen for the article. So good you’re all taking over. So glad to rest.

And FOFion for your posts. So refreshing! But hopefully you’ll leave Mr. Havenot out, it still brings a huge void in the stomach and so much imagination! But no hope.

He sounds well and remains kind. Jumping all over the world trying to strengthen the conversion of members. What an accident I must’ve been in his life, but we still tasted love so there are few regrets. If only we’d had more fun!

224. Another Name - April 29, 2009

The fellowship is a vessel which many members took to escape their childhood, and it became their prison cell. In my opinion.

Jomo when I read this, I cry………..

I just read the great failure from Nathaly Goldberg. A similar theme when she studied with Roshi and practizing Zen to basically overrule the pains of her childhood. When Roshi died she had to uncover all teh lies and secrets and somehow came to some acceptance and reconcilation.

Great “food”.

225. One from the fence - April 29, 2009

213. Walter Tanner

What James McElmore said in 216. Heh- you dumb jerk:-)

Hi, Walter!


Jason Isaac Stutz

226. elena - April 29, 2009

Jason, whoever you are is good. People don’t post their names here because when looking for a job and a search is done on the internet their name could come up here. I don’t know how true this is but in case you want to consider and have your name taken back off, this is a reminder.

There are no dumb jerks in here no matter how much you’d like to make them so, just people… friends… “contemporaries” if you prefer, like you.

227. Ellen - April 29, 2009

Hi All,

Glad the NY Times article provided some food for thought. For some reason, Zen’s seeding in America has brought it face to face with western psychotherapy. Don’t know exactly why that is, but it does seem to occur rather frequently. Cool. For example, Big Mind as a process is also an outgrowth of western Zen. It’s one (of perhaps many?) dynamic technique to integrate the non-dual with the dualistic voices of the human being using a non-authoritarian dialectical process. Double cool.

And why Zen? Perhaps because some of its lunatic form aspects provide rich ground for spiritual bypassing? The FoF surely did the same, but I would never say that that is (or was) all there is (or was) to it. To say so would be pure ignorance of human spirituality on my part and I’ve already been ignorant enough about that to last me a few lifetimes.

Thus, to say that a troubled childhood drives one to wish to escape it as an adult may be true enough but may also be a very incomplete picture of human spirituality. If the ground of our existence is pure spirit how can we ever say that the wish to return to the source only derives from a dissatisfactory childhood? There is more to it – even in that article.

But what is clear is that inspiration (higher states, kensho, dai-kensho, etc…) without integration IS imagination.

And, please pass me the camels. I like the four wordless humps.

228. elena - April 29, 2009

FOFion, rereading your post, independent of my reaction, play as you like. It’s not so bad to remember.


And what could be the connection between the source and parents?
Between the play and the inspiration for the play, so to speak?
Where do we make the connection from factual reality to spiritual reality? How?
If what happens here (in this physical realm) is determined by spiritual forces how does what happen here alter the spiritual forces?
If the psychology of an individual alters his physical processes, how does movement alter the psychology of the individual?
How does life move into legend and Myth?
Or Myth to life?
Soap opera to novel, to tragedy, to myth?

More than a troubled childhood would you consider that it is a troubled “life” what cult members are trying to run away from? Wanting to find solutions to the status quo of life actually seems a very healthy thing. That’s not the problem. It’s “CULTS” as a solution what deepens the problem not only of life but also of childhood. Rather than transform the dependencies of childhood and mature as individuals, don’t cult members replace them for the fixation on guru idolatry and instead of developing a more balanced society, cults retrograde into deformed religious monarchies?

Aren’t we talking about the “Management of Love”? But also the “human” deployment of economy?

So while a difficult childhood basically proves that one’s parents were too busy sorting themselves out in an already complex society to provide children with instinctive tranquillity and enough of an emotional embrace, in the cult, the child-like adult tries to construct an ideal society but completely surrenders personal responsibility to the guru. The “ideal society” is accomplished by extricating any form of opposition from the premises, beauty abounding in the renunciation of the individual for the Ark and the legend of automatons mechanically repeating the “sequence” of the doctrine but the surplus gain falls into extreme individual and social corruption.

It is not only the unresolved childhood what cult members are trying to resolve when they join; it is that the connection with the society that they belong to has been as severed as that with the family. Cult members are all too willing to renounce to society and to their families because that separation was already within them. There is nothing wrong with the human ideals that cult members are longing to achieve, it’s the way cult leaders manipulate religion to separate it from practical life that deviates the member into a deeper illusion. Blind trust on others without clarity about one’s own principles is what allows cult members to surrender so willingly.

Love for one’s children cannot be separate from love for children or for one’s parents from love for the older generation. There is no objective difference between my child and children or my parents and parents. Love is not in the subjectivity of a society that guarantees privileged well being to a few and then the rest can be condemned for not having transformed the turmoil of their childhood or such things as cults explained with the idiots who couldn’t grow up in a healthy environment. There’s an objective reality in the imbalance of a society in which well-being is the privilege of a few but those privileges do not guarantee more love or well being; They simply prove that money does not make people more human or happier. The imbalance of the human condition does not only act against the majority of the lower classes but against the minority of the upper classes. The breach between them is what hinders them both because in the subjectivity of life conditioned under such premises, the lack of objectivity of the construct weakens the whole. The corruption permeates everything.

In the individual realm the situation is similar: too much room for physical functions without soul corrupts into a lot of sexuality without life.

229. James Mclemore - April 29, 2009

Well it seems I am 0 for 2 lately. I posted a ‘dumb’ Lone Ranger joke and then evidently told someone they were a ‘dumb’ jerk. Given that poor record, I am wondering if I should resign from the Blogian party and begin studying those 60’s and 70’s sitcoms for esoteric knowledge and then just hope the FOFians will take me back.
Jomo Pinata – Do you know if there is anyone out there who is ‘channeling’ Aunt Bea? I need help with this.

ps – Walter Tanner – I have read a number of your posts here and things you have written on the GF. While I do not always agree with some things you have said, I have never once thought you were dumb.

230. morgan le faye - April 29, 2009

Hey Whalerider, after contributing many blog pages of the BEST analysis and insight, you are now writing nonsense about the FOF? Why? What purpose does it serve to write defamatory mocking fiction? The articles do not rate as irony or satire ; rather a type of literary farce.
I would be gratified by the total embarrassment and demise of the FOF and would hope the blog might facilitate that result, but my sense of fair play tells me there are rules to this ‘game’ and conjuring up and and publishing nonsense from your own imagination, even though ‘inspired’ by actual events, to defame the FOF is not sportsman-like. I would rather maintain a degree of integrity in our treatment of the FOF on the blog.
From my own POV, no matter how repugnant I knew myself to be, I would rather be judged by my REAL lack of merit than by a fictional caricature.
From a current members’ POV, it appears we have run out of negative fuel so must resort to lies, misrepresentation, and fiction.
I think there is a real danger some (credulous) blogger might accept your contributions as factual. ( Some earlier confusion testifies to that reality) I don’t think you give sufficient indications that your articles are make-believe.
I just don’t get what is funny about such contributions? Am I so humorless?

231. WhaleRider - April 29, 2009

morgan le faye:
“…lies, misrepresentation, and fiction….literary farce”

In other words, why stoop to Burton’s level?

You do have a point there…I don’t know, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire??? I’ll try anything!

There is a very real danger in people accepting what Burton says as factual, too, especially with Photoshopped “evidence” to back him up!

As you can rightly tell, I am certainly not a very good comedian. Yet, the jester is able to speak truth to power only because he’s wearing a funny suit and a mask. The noble Dukes who confront the King in court, even if they are in the right, usually lose their heads.

Once a FOF believer disengages their critical mind, logical arguments no matter how meritorious, seem to pointlessly fall on deaf ears…so I am not looking to make FOFers laugh…just wince at the painful truth.

All I can say is this: if you are already “out” and not on the fence, then maybe you have already digested the grain of truth in my pitiful attempt at satire. It is not for your eyes. (The diet of Burton quotes is getting pretty sparce these days…)

Nonetheless, I appreciate the feedback, thanks. Now let’s see some more of your magic, Ms. Morgan Le Faye! Will you join the dance?

232. in2it - April 30, 2009

Regarding any objections to satire, food for thought…

Groundswell Of Sarcastic Humor Begins To Undermine China’s Censors

Thursday, March 08, 2007
BEIJING — It’s a Chinese form of “truthiness” that might make Stephen Colbert proud.

China’s Southern Metropolis Weekly magazine recently reported this shocking news: The central government created universal health care for the country’s 1.3 billion people, wiped out bribery and reduced the country’s wide income gap. Migrant workers in the southern city of Guangzhou, notorious for its sweatshops, were “happy” and “respected,” the magazine reported in its print and Web editions.
Of course, it was political parody and all untrue.

Virtually unheard of several years ago, such blatant satire is part of a radical shift sweeping Chinese culture as Internet use spreads and citizens increasingly evade censorship by couching criticism in sarcastic humor. China has become so awash in a new wave of sarcastic — and often subversive — media that the trend has spawned a name: egao, literally, “evil work.”
The word [pronounced UH-GOW] describes “a subculture that is characterized by humor, revelry, subversion, grass-root spontaneity, defiance of authority, mass participation and multi-media high tech,” said a recent editorial in the government-run China Daily.

While the government tightly controls traditional media channels including television, radio and print, “the Internet has given people the chance to express themselves,” said Guo Xinghua, a sociologist at People’s University in Beijing.

“Egao is a term for how average people are seizing back the discourse,” he said.

Last year, the Chinese government issued a list of “Eight Honors and Eight Shames” as part of a campaign to promote morality within the Communist Party. The list included such instructions as “Love the country; do it no harm.”

Chinese Web users quickly posted their own lists on the Internet.

One parody included the couplet, “Love your Mercedes and BMW; do not ride a bicycle,” which some readers considered an attack on rampant official corruption.

Despite government attempts to limit access to many Web sites, the number of Chinese Internet users has quadrupled since 2001 and reached 137 million last December, according to the China Internet Network Information Center.

The phenomenon is also spreading to other media. One of the most popular recent examples of egao was Crazy Stone, a low-budget film shot in Chongqing that chronicles the exploits of bumbling thieves trying to steal a jade ornament.
“Crazy Stone is the first Chinese film that makes fun of everything,” said Miao Di, a film professor at Beijing Broadcast University.
The movie targets Chinese officials in a scene where the main character realizes the ornament has been stolen but decides against calling the police.

“The police?” he asks as he drags on a cigarette. “If we call the cops we’ll lose everything. They’ll just mess things up.”

While sarcasm is stock-in-trade for Western media, Chinese have little history of the technique because the government has tightly monitored most culture, Miao said.

After the Communist Party seized control of China in 1949, the government built propaganda bureaus across the nation and dictated what kinds of art could be produced. The top-down control reached a climax during the Cultural Revolution, a decade-long period starting in 1966 when almost all popular entertainment was banned.

Today, the Communist Party still tries to control media content. Most press reports, films and television shows have to be cleared by government censors and many Chinese journalists censor themselves to avoid upsetting their editors. Beijing employs tens of thousands of Internet police who delete or report content considered objectionable.

Chinese “have to rely on satire to express many of our opinions. There’s not freedom to directly confront social problems,” said film editor Hu Ge.

Hu, inspired by the South Park television series and the Naked Gun movies, helped make a 20-minute film parody that became a sensation on the Web and is considered by many commentators as China’s first example of egao. Within months, hundreds of similar videos “with targets ranging from George W. Bush to Superman” were circulating on the Internet, the China Daily reported.

Government attempts to stamp out the Internet movement could only make it stronger, Guo said.
“Partly the top cultural arbiters are angry because they can’t control the media any more,” Guo said. “The people are creating the culture for the first time.”

233. harryhindsight - April 30, 2009

Morgan le Faye,

Not sportsmanlike?………..!!!!!!

Lighten up for goodness sake.

234. One from the fence - April 30, 2009

226., 229. I guess the sweetness with which I called him a dumb jerk with 🙂 was not appreciated.

235. One from the fence - April 30, 2009

226. Please don’t moderate me.

236. elena - April 30, 2009

Sorry Jason, you’ll have to find another site to participate if that’s what you want or just don’t read my posts. There’s nothing free about socializing except the willingness to take criticism and moderate one’s self!

237. in2it - April 30, 2009

Personally I just wish you’d make some sense, have a coherent point, etc., but I guess it’s all part of the fun.

Spending time in the FOF: “The Brain Fitness Program” it is not.

238. in2it - April 30, 2009

Of course, was not referring to you Elena… You have truly made an enormous amount of sense here.

Ellen 227: regarding your nytimes article, I also really appreciated the link to that at 192… very relevant and thought provoking.

Regarding your comments: “For some reason, Zen’s seeding in America has brought it face to face with western psychotherapy. Don’t know exactly why that is, but it does seem to occur rather frequently.”

Maybe because it provides one pathway to overall health and healing. The topic of “health/healing” is one of THE most under-discussed topics in the FOF. It’s obvious why… because it would seriously get people to understanding two things: 1) that healing from an unhealthy experience (chronicled on all 71 pages here) is needed, and 2) it would call attention to the first major step toward that healing and good health — which would be leaving the insanity of the FOF.


You also wrote: “Thus, to say that a troubled childhood drives one to wish to escape it as an adult may be true enough but may also be a very incomplete picture of human spirituality. If the ground of our existence is pure spirit how can we ever say that the wish to return to the source only derives from a dissatisfactory childhood? There is more to it – even in that article.”

You mention two things here: a “wish to escape” and a “wish to return to the source.”

Of those two, the words “returning to the source”, even if you and I may understand the idea differently, is something that resonates with me a lot more than “wishing to escape.”

The idea of needing to escape is to me a cult idea that is not exclusive to Fourth Way groups or the FOF. We rarely if ever questioned this idea while sitting through the FOF meetings. Connecting, and connecting with the “higher angels of our nature” is something that interests me a lot more than escaping. Even the FOF, a veritable prison in its own way, is not something that I escaped from.

No, I finally left because I connected with something — something that I had systematically detached myself from for over 20 years, both something within myself and something that permeates all.

239. nigel harris price - April 30, 2009

237/238 in2it

I have discovered that some of the ‘system knowlege’ is still useful to me, although it was almost always passive within me when I was ‘in the cult’. It is especially useful in terms of running my teaching/fabricating jewellery and silverwork business – knowledge of body-types, features and centres of gravity, for instance. I often wonder whether I could have developed into what I am now, both as an individual and as a craftsman in precious metals, had I not become a member of the Fellowship. The thing is – it was part of my fate, and I was hungry for knowledge of how to evolve, although, as you mentioned, the Fellowship experience, for the most part, was ‘insanity’. I think we all have to delve a little more deeply into our past, to try to understand how we have grown and, hopefully, matured, GIVEN ALL THE EVENTS OF OUR LIVES…..Nigel.

240. One from the fence - April 30, 2009

236. No, it’s just that your 226. post is just full of inconsistencies- like, for example, the man I wrote the post TO has his full name and middle initial AND posts his email address in every post he makes but for some reason you are pointing mine out with your “we” don’t do that here. And you surely take no objection when bruce or nigel fly off the handle and start cursing to the stars about some slight or especially a possibly (gasp) non-anti-Robert statement. So, yes, please don’t moderate me.

241. nigel harris price - April 30, 2009

240 One from the fence

‘Flying off the handle’ as you put it is actually ‘directed aggression’ – I do not lose control and there is no negative emotion exprerienced by me. I feel you are, again, showing your immaturity – is it a sign of your youth or that, maybe, your growth was/is stunted by the FOF experience?…..Nigel.

242. One from the fence - April 30, 2009

241. That is the most passive aggressive bullshit I’ve heard in a long time… or since your last post to me.

243. nigel harris price - April 30, 2009

242. Put it in your chief feature and transform it!…..and, by the way, ‘passive/aggressive’ is an Americo-Psycho turn of phrase, so stop borrowing terminology of which you have no understanding…..Nigel

244. Ellen - April 30, 2009

In2it, #238

“Maybe because it provides one pathway to overall health and healing?”

Maybe, relative to the “pathway” part, but I don’t know how much experience you have actually had with hard-core Zen. It can be quite formal and quite lunatic. I have had a bit – and even in the few sanghas that I experienced – health and healing were not main items on the agenda. Neither was it crossed out from it either.

Integration on all levels again seems to be key here.

In the Fellowship, there were and still are many health professionals who are members of the (FoF) community. It takes a trained eye and some unhealthy experiences of one’s own to understand how little integration actually occurs. And of course, the closer it gets to Robert, the closer it gets to an issue of mere damage control. So, naturally, that attitude trickles down.
You also make note of the terms a “wish to escape” and “the wish to return to the source”. Yes! Also Ouspensky in PoMPE noted the positive and negative thrusts as basic equipment for the spiritual journey. I think if the impetus for such exploration is too heavily weighted on the negative side, a person will, sooner or later, have some major spiritual bypassing issues to explore. However, there are people, even long time Fellowship members who come (or came) from very healthy childhoods (I know, I married one – at least on round two…)

But to cancel out the possibility of “wishing to return to the source” due to the overwhelming evidence of the “wishing to escape” is yet another form of ignorance. (Not accusing you, in2it, here, or anyone. This is a general observation for the general crowd. )

245. One from the fence - April 30, 2009

243. I keep remembering that student of Gurdjieff’s who when given his chief feature “doesn’t have a conscience” he went to look up the word “conscience” in books and brought it back to the group triumphantly to prove Gurdjieff wrong. That’s what I think of when you write things like that… all of your book knowledge. But you’ll never get it. You’ll write back some “scathing” reply that has no relevance to anything about me.

246. nigel harris price - April 30, 2009

245 You’re right…..I have no relevance to you, nor you to me. And, for your information, my ‘book knowledge’ is actually a sound literary grounding, which I understand to the extent that it impels me to right and conscienable action. Yours, in pity…..Nigel.

247. Ellen - April 30, 2009

#228, Elena,

“And what could be the connection between the source and parents?
Between the play and the inspiration for the play, so to speak?
Where do we make the connection from factual reality to spiritual reality?
If what happens here (in this physical realm) is determined by spiritual forces how does what happen here alter the spiritual forces?
If the psychology of an individual alters his physical processes, how does movement alter the psychology of the individual?
How does life move into legend and Myth?
Or Myth to life?
Soap opera to novel, to tragedy, to myth?”

All good questions.
And your cult observations, too. Authoritarian spiritual systems may be useful (for a limited time) for people who need to grow up, spiritually. And most people do recognize the wish to grow in that way. Apparently, I needed to experience the Fellowship, because I did.

I had some renunciate morality ideas and attitudes of my own which fed into RB’s twisted interpretation of the already dualistically expressed Fourth Way system knowledge to create a bit of a spiritual monstrosity. Time to clean up and move on.

The big difference that led to my departure was recognizing that being, consciousness and bliss are already existentially present as the ground root of every single human being (animals, too) – whether they were “working on themselves” or not – whether they recognized it or not. And it is GOOD. Something very basic to simply honor and not abuse or deny.

248. elena - April 30, 2009

In2it, Ellen, Hmmm, it’s beautiful when people talk!

One From the Fence,

You’re so right and so welcome here! And so hurt and defensive and I’ve had a lot to do with that. Allow me to speak more softly too since I’ve hurt you when I’ve spoken loudly. Now to your points:

236. No, it’s just that your 226. post is just full of inconsistencies- like, for example, the man I wrote the post TO has his full name and middle initial AND posts his email address in every post he makes but for some reason you are pointing mine out with your “we” don’t do that here.

Maybe that person doesn’t ever need to look for a job and is not concerned about it. I sincerely mentioned it to you because that was the reason given to me at the beginning when I asked why people used fake names. Of course, that is only half the reason but if you google your name that name of yours that you posted might lead the person right here and it’s not such a great reference when looking for a job. You can ask the moderator to take it off if you think it might be a problem for you.

Jason: And you surely take no objection when bruce or nigel fly off the handle and start cursing to the stars about some slight or especially a possibly (gasp) non-anti-Robert statement.

Bruce and Nigel are two very different people and we’ve all had our serious confrontations. Love seems to have survived between Nigel and I but of course, he’s got a few advantages! Bruce is the best moderator here so when I fly off the roof he doesn’t have a problem telling me about it and I’m in deep gratitude for it no matter how much it stings! It gets awfully uncomfortable when the issue becomes bias and there are six or eight of them doing the moderating convinced that quantity will cover the lack of quality but even then “we” learn something about it! We learn so much that I can then tell you with perfect conviction that there are no dumb jerks here and if we can come to understand that, we might actually dialogue! This is not a Club Jason and if we can’t bring our selves to our selves in a public square, who’d want to join the club we are participating in? For how long do we have to hide in clubs to be our selves? Clubs in which the rules are set so that nobody questions each other?

So yes, please moderate me all you can, I appreciate the trimming and love pruning all those branches looking down at the floor! I’m at home here Jason! The home of free people! If I can’t be here I’ll continue to live like a pariah everywhere! You’re a gift to the Public Square!!

249. in2it - April 30, 2009

Nigel, 239, me too. I joined the fof because many of its ideas — as presented to me — resonated, and some of it still does, although I am learning to gradually disassociate those ideas from the fof, but instead realize that they connect with my own inner impulses and the general wisdom that I can find all around me, including from you. A bit of a disjointed paragraph, but that describes my attitude in a nutshell about what I feel today about “the system” and the “fourth way.” I don’t personally believe any of it was a waste, but it’s been helpful for me to look over the experience with a critical eye, and question every premise that I believed in the fof. Some ideas have stood the test of time, while others have fallen off. I suppose it’s a constant process of evaluation.

Not “valuation” — but “e-valuation.” THAT is the difference between being in a cult and being on a spiritual path, imo. Nigel, thanks for all of your posts. I’ve been just watching mostly, and a lot of it resonates with me more than you know.

Ellen, 244, all I can say is “wow.” Very thoughtful and interesting response. I’ll read it again. I really like the way your mind works.

250. Renald - April 30, 2009

……….and so I recommended the reading of The Blog to a college student who wants to write a paper on cults and all he sees is a few exers bashing each other. Oh well, I tried.

251. James Mclemore - April 30, 2009

250. Renald

There are 71 pages here. He didn’t look very hard.

252. Opus 111 - April 30, 2009


This blog is most useful to people who have experienced the FOF in some way, whether they are still in or not. Some powerful stuff has been written here.

For someone who has (presumably) never experienced FOF or any other cult for that matter, main stream sources might be much more useful. Guru papers comes to mind, amongst others.

253. nigel harris price - April 30, 2009

248 elena

When you talk about love, do you mean – Robust Love – the kind that Whitman exemplified in his poetical works – His Life? I stand apart from my words, mainly – and not so apart in my actions, when I am close to my friends, students and, of course, my family. The point is – we have to get right to the Core of our Being – and Shine!!!!! Then there is no patronising, no condescension – just Being Being and Offering. Luckily, as you see, I can manipulate words to force people to the Promontory of Experience, as Whitman (again) put it. There is no need to be liked (vanity), no need to hold back (fearfully) and one speaks from a 2/3rds lifetime of experience (naivete overcome). There – I have expressed my header, chief and footer features (not necessarily in the order in which they were transformed). I love you guys, in a way that actually cannot be contained in this blogsite. I actually have Love Enough for ‘One from the fence’ to deal with his fumblings and inconsistencies and his need to be ‘right all the time’. Just be out of False Personality and the fact that it ‘does not remember’ – that is what I can offer him, however he takes it. In other words – I think I am expecting Real Manhood and Real Womanhood in those I come across on this site…..Nigel.

254. One from the fence - May 1, 2009

253. Nigel, you lack conscience.

255. One from the fence - May 1, 2009

253. And ever thing you post directed at me illucidates that point about you- in everything- you aggrandize your features to have noble names. But you said yourself that your books teach you conscience. I’m surprised you didn’t look up the word, Nigel. Try it, though. It has a different meaning than you fluffed your self up with.

This will be the last I write to you. The guy who sent his student here (above) and found only squabbling siblings had a point. I know that you will not see yourself, now, that you do not want to see yourself. You can ask as you did why I think I know you so well, and it is because I have experienced too many people who use words so carelessly as you do, only to “win” but without a real purpose. And you don’t win. You reviling of my “inconsistencies” etc…. what? You are the kind of person I wish I could take to a court of law so that a judge and jury to break down your uses of language to reveal the emptiness underneath all of that “pinaché.”

256. Opus 111 - May 1, 2009

On the other hand, that college student of yours, Renald, has a point…

257. brucelevy - May 1, 2009

254. One from the fence

Pot meet kettle.

258. brucelevy - May 1, 2009

255. One from the fence

…and you’re a douchbag.

259. brucelevy - May 1, 2009

One from the fence

Let me explain. I don’t want you to think it’s just an ad hominem attack. Your posts in the past indicate a fairly narcissistic personality. You use your pseudo-“indecision” more for an attention getter than an in-put getter. And your recent choice of a person to unload on shows quite clearly you are also a coward and a weasel.

I hope that makes it a bit clearer.

260. Another Name - May 1, 2009

Dear friends.

Anybody saw the movie Zeitgeist? The part discussing religion and teh bible as related to astrology?

Anybody who want to commend on it….it was a mind blower and I can still not believe it. Religion is a make up twisted, concept and kept people “asleep” or a Marx states “Opium for the people”.

For example the end of the world was wrongly translated and is actually the end of the age…which is related to 2150 the end of the age of pisces and will go into aquarias. (when the water bearer will appear.

Budha, God, …..? All a story?

Bruce did you see this movie…..?

261. nigel harris price - May 1, 2009

255 One from the fence

On the subject of looking up words in a dictionary….

‘Pinache’ is actually “panache”, most translatable from the French novel ‘Cyrano de Bergerac” – “Ca qui reste, c’est mon panache” – ‘all that remains is my aura (soul)’.

And please do make it the last time you write to/about me – you’re right, your features are bigger than mine (i.e. not worked with).

Humbly, up your self-described ‘fat-arse’…..Nigel.

262. One from the fence - May 1, 2009

258. Elena! Bruce called me a douchebag!!!!!!

263. One from the fence - May 1, 2009

258. Elena! Bruce called me a douchebag!!

264. One from the fence - May 1, 2009

259. You, also, have proven unreasonable.

And your recent choice of a person to unload on shows quite clearly you are also a coward and a weasel.

What are you talking about?

265. Jomo Piñata - May 1, 2009

264/fence person

Nigel is an artisan, teacher and gentle soul who has been quite open with us about the many challenges he faces in living with bipolar illness.

266. WhaleRider - May 1, 2009

The Mystical Experience and Enlightenment”

“The concept of Oneness is an abstraction created by thought as a way of framing and attempting to describe the mystical experience.

Insofar as Oneness is placed in a higher realm or a plane than the world of separation and multiplicity, this is done by abstracting out and reifying a presumed quality or essence from life, making that more important than the individual expressions of life itself. In doing so, the plurality of existence is trivialized.

This is representative of the historic pattern followed by all accumulation cultures in which the spiritual was abstracted out from the secular and exalted above it.

The Oneness experience comes to represent all that is positive, true, and real. Separation becomes the bad guy with no inherent value, the enemy that keeps Oneness away…the meaning of life becomes transcending separation and all the negatives therein.

Once a person has had a mystical experience, it is not difficult to make being in that special state more of the time, or all of the time, the meaning and goal of life. This can be true for those who have not had the experience, but have heard of it and give it credence. Doing this is reinforced by presumed spiritual masters who not only claim to live in this exalted state, but also insinuate that this place of unity is more real and superior to ordinary reality where separation is experienced.

The actual experience of underlying unity (of all things) is different from thought creating an abstract concept of it, and then making that concept more real than individuated experience. What should not be forgotten is that it takes an individual to experience unity.

Oneness is an abstraction that presents itself as beyond dualism, and yet has within it a hidden duality. Dividing the cosmos into two categories or levels of reality is dualistic by nature.

The ideology of Oneness (as opposed to the experience of it) creates an opposition with multiplicity, calling itself “higher” and more real. And although the mystical experience can give a person a deeper connection with the cosmos, by contrast the ideology of Oneness with its camouflaged, hierarchical dualism has separated the spiritual from worldly and humanity from nature.

But if unity is valued more than diversity, the inevitable result is the attempt to get unity by negating or in some fashion lessening the value and importance of separation. When unity is considered better or more real than diversity, emulating the values abstracted out of the concept of Oneness is presented as the solution to the problems within individuated life. This result in making people’s concerns with their own individual lives the source of all problems.

The major Eastern religions make reference to as state of consciousness of a different order called enlightenment. Its foundation lies in the mystical experience of unity that has been conceptualized as Hindu Oneness or the Buddhist Void.

From this came the idea of the “enlightened one” who lives in this exalted place all the time, most of the time, or at least a significantly greater amount of time than ordinary folk-having at the very minimum some control over access to this place. Such individuals paint a seductive picture of a state they can help others get to that is not only eternal but can solve all the mundane problems of life.

Creating a special category call the “enlightened state” is itself a manifestation of an accumulation mentality; it becomes the ultimate goal to achieve through accumulating merit and partially enlightening experiences. One day or lifetime, one finally crosses the barrier and arrives. You work toward the goal of enlightenment and once you get it, you have it. The way the ideal is constructed makes it static and unchanging.

The experience of unity feels timeless, but the concept of enlightenment turns a timeless moment into an “all the time” fixed identity that continues over time. Ironically, the identity of being enlightened attempts to crystallize in time what is experienced as timeless.

Once one gives credence to such an identity either in oneself or in another, this creates a dualistic, either/or framework: one is either enlightened or not enlightened-this or that. This is another example of how constructing two separate categories and giving one greater value (it’s better to be enlightened) creates a hierarchy of value not only between the two, but also within the less valued (non-enlightened) category. Those viewed as not enlightened are considered better to the degree they emulate the images of enlightenment.

Once existence is bifurcated into two categories, a bridge is required between the two parts. In both the East and the West, religions create the two realms and then become a bridge between them. They design a “spiritual path” from the lower to the higher through defining the proper actions to get from here (this world) to there (however salvation is defined). This conception is linear and hierarchical, as are the religions that produce it. Among spiritual seekers the burning issue is how far along the path one is.

It is our assumption that the more internally divided and at war with themselves people are, the more they will look for and need, external acceptance……giving unqualified acceptance (to a guru) reinforces abusive or self-destructive behavior.

Enlightenment, seen as viewing a few individuals as special channels for, and greater manifestations of, this underlying unity brings in hierarchy. Once it is assumed that some people embody or express the true nature of reality more than others, an authoritarian hierarchy easily flows from that basic assumption.

This also lays the foundation for perpetuating the hierarchy, because the one who knows best can decide who is enlightened and thereby transfer the mantle of authority. One person deciding when another is enlightened does seem a bit strange. One would presume that if enlightened, one would know it without being told. Yet this is what occurs within many spiritual frameworks.

The ideal of enlightenment at first blush seems completely innocent of human corruption because it is defined as being totally selfless. Yet it is this sacrosanct concept of perfection that allows authoritarianism to manifest, and indeed flourish.

Two mental constructs work in tandem: enlightenment provides authorities, karma as a cosmic law provides the metaphysical justification for why some rather than others come to be enlightened authorities. These two concepts intertwine and validate each other, creating an impenetrable closed system that perpetuates itself.

Superior past lives are used to legitimize special status, while those with special status present the karma/rebirth ideology as an unchallengeable truth. Not coincidentally surrendering to and obeying the master is presented as a (usually necessary) step on the path to enlightenment.

The very nature of any structure that makes one person different and superior to others not only breeds authoritarianism, but also is authoritarian in its essence. Just as there is no way for humans to question God, there really is no way for a non-enlightened being to question the words or actions of a presumed enlightened one. This is why gurus can get away with anything-they are judged by different standards that make whatever they do perfect by definition.

One of the cheapest guru ploys is to make people feel inadequate by showing how their behaviors are tainted with self-centeredness-always an easy task.

The idea that someone is on longer susceptible to the corruptions of power ensures corruption will occur, promulgating self-delusion in all involved.

So the concept of enlightenment, precisely because it is so exalted almost inevitably lends itself to abuse and corruption.

It can be used to justify any behavior (no matter how sleazy), privileges, or excesses, creating an insidious double standard for the superior ones.

There are even warnings about the traps of enlightenment within esoteric literature, where it is said that no one who has had truly enlightening experiences ever claims to be enlightened.”

~The Guru Papers

267. nigel harris price - May 1, 2009

265 Jomo Pinata

Thank you…..but I would add to ‘gentle soul’ the quality of being robust. I think that ‘One from the fence’ thinks he can ‘faze’ me with his inanities and his inability to correctly ‘read’ posts, bending them to his narcissism. You are correct with regard to challenges – bi-polarity is not something to wish on other people, but, IF WORKED WITH, produces a compassionate outlook on life – empathy and the willing to allow others into one’s emotional life – something I could never do and actually hid during my time in the Fellowship (other than my kingsy-heartsy ‘airs and graces’). My students wonder how I can produce artefacts in precious metal of diverse and complicated ‘origins’ – and I have little to answer – 30 years of experience?…..hand-eye co-ordination and application to the task in hand?…..following a lineage of precious metal crafting as a double-Celt? I feel the craft has taken me through the ‘pain barrier’ of my severe mental illness and given me day-to-day practicalities to keep me on the ‘straight-and-narrow’ and is further enhanced by teaching these wonderful individuals who, literally, as with angels, fly with the techniques and processes I offer them. Do I feel proud of being a teacher? I would rather say that I feel blessed and priveleged. Again, Jomo Pinata, thank you for your interest and support…..Nigel.

268. nigel harris price - May 1, 2009

266 whalerider

Enlightenment?…..states? As you very well know, these come and go, willy-nilly. I often used to want my manic phases to last eternally – I would not need to sleep at night; I could fulfil everyone’s dreams and aspirations; I could champion the noblest and most meagre causes, and so on. But, in these states, with however much insight one can gain, (NOTA BENE, REB), THERE IS NO PRACTICALITY WITH WHICH TO LIVE ONE’S ORDINARY LIFE. Actually, I feel more-and-more as I think about it, that REB, if he had any ‘higher states’, which led to his enacting the inception of the FOF, or has now (“there are 44 angels disappearing up my backside even as we speak, dear” – get the idea?), then it is all down to ‘rampant schizophrenia’. Who would really want ‘sensory anomalies’ and (let us face the facts, REB) ‘hallucinations’ to command their daily activities?…..Nigel.

269. One from the fence - May 1, 2009

265. Oh, poor thing.

270. brucelevy - May 1, 2009

269. One from the fence

There, but for the Grace of God…

it’s good that you’ve come to be comfortable enough, or stupid enough here to show your true scumbagedness. Of course, right from your beginning here, it wasn’t too hard to see.

271. Jomo Piñata - May 1, 2009


> 265. Oh, poor thing.

Next time you are hospitalized during a manic episode we will remember to treat you with similar sarcasm.

272. nigel harris price - May 1, 2009

270 bruce levy/270 Jomo Pinata

It’s O.K., guys – I am man enough to treat ‘fency’s’ comments with little relevance to the sustaining caring I otherwise receive on the blog…..Nigel.

273. elena - May 1, 2009


Again you’re only here to disrupt things and act stupid which makes me think you’re an FOFer. It would at least make more sense! You seem to be having fun, the others don’t need my help and you don’t deserve it. But if you can still take it,cool off, it doesn’t get any prettier.

Been away and away I go again. It’s a beautiful sunny day up in the mountains. Good luck!

274. James Mclemore - May 1, 2009

One from the fence

I guess I am naive.
You know, a while back I even invited you as a friend on the GF in order that I could write something to you personally because I thought you were perhaps just misguided in what you appeared to be looking for.

It is a pity that it now appears that you are just a jerk.
You sound very young, maybe you will get over it.

275. whaleRider - May 1, 2009

more on “enlightenment”, less on his Fence Oneness

“The very idea of enlightenment has hidden assumptions within it that are part of our authoritarian heritage. An example of this is the presumption that a modern manifestation of enlightenment would say essentially the same things as were said thousands of years ago.

This is an odd image of finality within an otherwise evolving cosmos. People do have enlightening experiences and insights, but are they always a repetition of old insights that others had thousands of years ago? Is awareness a path others have trod that leads to a predictable end?

The concept of enlightenment needs to be a-historical, unchanging, and infallible to support authoritarian religious hierarchies. This is the East’s way of endowing someone with the last word and ultimate authority on cosmic truth.

His (Buddha’s) agenda to end suffering has had millennia to test itself and has failed. Are people just not good enough? Is there something wrong with people or is something wrong with the agenda?

His methodology for ending suffering was tied to the concept of enlightenment, which involves renouncing both self and self-centeredness. So as an essentially renunciate religion, Buddhism is also essentially authoritarian, with the Buddha being the absolute authority on what to renounce and how to go about doing it.

Some modern Buddhists would bristle at calling Buddhism renunciate. They would say that through dis-identifying or detaching from illusion that there is a self, self-centeredness effortlessly leaves. We view this as their illusion.

Ironically, Buddhists who assert there is nothing but change in the material world hold that spiritual realizations do not change. Denying change in the spiritual realm is basically a fundamentalist stance used to protect the sacred and tradition.

Significantly, a less common meaning of an enlightening experience is penetrating the veils of illusion. We see the dis-illusionment necessary for this age as going beyond the polarizations of either/or moral frameworks, which are the source of most distortions and illusions.

Any ideology that presents static ideals of perfection and attainment necessarily creates its own illusions.

This anti-evolutionary view of awareness and wisdom not only blocks further inquiry, but it limits the possibility of constructing new frameworks that can free people to be truly more aware.”

~The Guru Papers

276. WhaleRider - May 1, 2009

The One-Sidedness of Fence Oneness

“It is through constructing images that idealize unity and selflessness to the detriment of separateness that spirituality and morality have gone awry.

By a sleight of mind which easily passes unnoticed, the experience of an underlying unity (in a higher state) is turned into the ideology of Oneness (dogma), which contains both unwarranted assumptions about reality and prescriptions of how to be. The commonest ones are:

1) Such experiences are more real than ordinary reality, and so unity is superior to diversity.

2) It is possible to be in the mystical state all the time and, of course, the more the better.

3) The pathway to unity is through negating individuation. Here descriptions of unity turn into prescriptions for individuals to no longer act like individuals.

4)Following a presumed “arrived” master is the best way to get there.

The experience of being part of something larger (even the whole cosmos) is very different from declaring the whole is more real than the parts.

Just as if takes an individual to have this experience, it takes an individual mind to construct the ideology of Oneness-an ideology which quixotically ((I love that word)) denies the individuated reality of the person constructing it.

If, as we see it, diversity (the Many) is just as real as the underlying unity (the One), then attempting to solve the problems of day-to-day life by inappropriately superimposing the values abstracted out of the concept of Oneness will not work.

If unity and diversity, the One and the Many, are embedded in each other, then values of moral purity that deny separation and villainize self-centeredness spawn an underbelly of corruption.

We wish to show how elevating one side of a dialectical relationship (unity) over the other (separation) generates an unlivable renunciate morality.

If, from the point of view of the One, everything is perfect, then how can one judge this to be better than that, or in fact have any preferences at all?

So from this, an ideal of spirituality is built that involves making no judgments and having no preferences. Here the ideal is to love everyone and everything equally, because one is supposed to be free of attachments to any particular expression of this unity-i.e., to any person or object.

So problems with individuated life around such issues as power, competition, envy, jealousy, manipulation, sexuality, and self-centeredness in general are wrongly thought to be solvable by adopting the values that come from looking at existence as a seamless web of unity. ((Don’t worry dear, you’re with an angel now))

But if existence has seams (boundaries), and if individuation is an irreducible aspect of it, then trying to solve the problems within the individuated life by superimposing values derived from a different level of abstraction (unity) can only lead to confusion and paradox ((or far worse)).

An element in opening and closing boundaries involves judgments on the part of an organism as to what to let in or keep out. This serves to protect and to maintain some degree of individual integrity.

Judgments are only possible because there are individuals with differences that can be judged. If making judgments and distinctions is necessary when dealing with each other and life, the problems if judgmentalism cannot be unraveled by reactively positing an ideal of being non-judgmental.

The fact is, people make judgments about everything all the time. Comparison and judgment are part of the way thought works to sort things out-survival depends on this. The preference for Oneness is itself highly ironic, as it is the judgment that it’s better not to judge.

Such ironies abound in mystical writings, where so many if the seeming paradoxes involve a levels shift of identification from the small “I” of individuated life to the big “I” of the totality of being.

The mystical experience of unity has an eternal quality. How easy it is to project that quality onto oneself and say, “I, the individual, am eternal.” This can be used to validate any afterlife conception such as karma/rebirth. To say we are all God is well and good, but not at the cost of denying our humanity with all its seeming foibles.

The One and the Many, unity and diversity, are opposites only when so framed by either/or thinking. A dialectical framework that is more inclusive sees them as interweaving poles within the process of existence.

A view of both spirituality and morality is needed that does not prioritize one pole over the other.

Judging as superior the values abstracted out of the mystical experience of Oneness is not only reactive, but itself is just more either/or, dualistic conceptualizing-ironically the very thing the ideology of Oneness claims to have transcended.

The mystical experience does not end with unity; it begins there, and then must be integrated into the equal reality of individuated daily life.”

~The Guru Papers

277. nigel harris price - May 2, 2009

A little literary sustenance…..

W E Henley

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeoning of chance
My head is bloody, but unbow’d.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

278. Yesri Baba - May 2, 2009

“Just as it takes an individual to have this experience, it takes an individual mind to construct the ideology of Oneness-an ideology which quixotically ((I love that word)) denies the individuated reality of the person constructing it.”

The individuated reality of the person IS the Oneness.

“Bliss is the gentle kiss between time and timelessness.”

Love Yesri

Whoa!…uh oh…I just got the urge to suck a weener…whew it passed…guess I better knock that off.

279. peter mac - May 2, 2009

That everything’s inevitable.
That fate is whatever has already happened.
The brain, which is as elemental, as sane, as the rest of the processing universe is.
In this world, I am the surest thing.
Scrunched-up arms, folded legs, lovely destitute eyes.
Please insert your spare coins.
I am filling them up.
Please insert your spare vision, your vigor, your vim.
But yet, I am a vatic one.
As vatic as the Vatican.
In the temper and the tantrum, in the well-kept arboretum
I am waiting, like an animal,
For poetry.

-Katy Lederer

280. ton - May 2, 2009

renald, fenceboy, etc, you dig?

281. WhaleRider - May 2, 2009

The Power of Abstraction

“…“In the Beginning was the Word.” It is the spreading of “the Word,” or words that religion gains power. What has given humanity its evolutionary advantage is using its complex brain to think, remember, and project into the future.

Thinking is done in symbols (words), which through rules of combination (grammar) bring forth language. The capacity to think in symbols and communicate symbolically with others was the evolutionary watershed that made humans human.

Knowledge is power, but even more basic, language is power. It is through words that CULTure is created, maintained ad transmitted; so words are what create mental alignment that defines a CULTure’s perception of reality.

But more, words move people, igniting emotion with a vision of possibility. The movement of human history is always preceded by NEW ideas, which are NEW constructions within language. ((E=MC2)) Human behavior is not separable from the symbols making up the worldview that is its cultural context.

Deeply interwoven in the power of language is the ability to abstract. Considerations of the mental capacity to abstract could easily appear remote and largely irrelevant. But abstractions not only affect life, they are one of the great sources of power.

Every worldview contains its unique abstractions that define it and not incidentally are used to control people. ((i.e., Democracy and FREEDOM…the zealot Republican’s new buzz word))

Religions have created the planet’s most powerful, pervasive, and enduring systems of abstraction-systems still at the foundation of the moral systems of even secularized societies…the (abstracted) concept of karma became one of the powerful controllers of human behavior this planet has ever known.

The power of abstraction lies in this: the greater the abstraction, the larger the number ad kinds of particulars than can be subsumed and included under it.

It’s not surprising then that even religions, too, gained and increased their power by creating sacred symbols ((numbers 44, 4, 96, 12, paradise, etc.))-mental constructs of the divine-of greater and greater abstraction.

As constructions of the divine became more abstract, they were able to include more and more of the unknown ((and arbitrary coincidences)) under their reign, and also to be the foundation for a more abstract morality that could control larger numbers of people.

((in polytheism)) Humans came to be thought of as having been created for the sole purpose of serving the gods and freeing them from manual labor. A symbiotic master/servant relationship was conceived reflecting the early urban hierarchies. The gods depended on humans to fulfill their very human-like daily needs (to be fed, clothed, bathed, etc.), while the humans depended on the gods for their personal welfare, as well as the state’s. Service became a prerequisite for the god’s favors. ((Hmmm…sound familiar?))

The religious elite, in collusion with the rulers, came to have a monopoly on creating the religious symbol system-the basic worldview that dominated all other systems of society.

Oneness, the pinnacle of religious abstraction, is the aspect of Eastern thought the West is currently enamored of. Hindu Oneness and the Buddhist Void are essentially the same abstraction in that both are non-differentiated and all-persuasive.

The more abstract a concept is, the it generalizes; and at the same time it leaves out particulars, sometimes even the particulars of life itself.

By abstracting the sacred from nature, the different religions in their diverse ways made nature low on the hierarchy of importance. ((and we are paying for it with global weirding))

…All the surviving major world religions base their ultimate rewards and punishments on some kind of continuity after life. For divine retribution to work it is necessary to abstract something from life that continues after death. The luxury of shifting attention from survival on earth to after-death considerations was made possible by the power of abstraction, which gave humanity control over life ((and each other)).

The problems with abstracting unity from diversity come when unity is given more value and more reality than individuated life.

Unity and multiplicity (the One and the Many) are two sides of a dialectical process that need each other to BE at all-neither has priority.

Self-centeredness and selflessness are also embedded in each other. ((Yin and Yang)) A morality that equates virtue with selfless behavior can have greater control over human action, but it cannot eliminate the self-centered. Instead, self-centered ((or shall we say, sleazy)) behavior merely becomes organized around what is socially acceptable OR DISPLAYS ITSELF UNCONSCIOUSLY ((call it the will of c-influence or whatever)).

The state of the world ((and the FOF)) is a testament to the failure of renunciate values to deal successfully with the core issue of self-centeredness.”

~The Guru Papers

282. ton - May 2, 2009

250 renald, my previous post was a bit flippant… i agree with james, it’s all here, but if your ‘college student’ didn’t care to penetrate the surface in researching cult phenomena maybe (s)he will get something from this — mark your calendar:


283. James Mclemore - May 2, 2009

What I hear from the apologists and the shills and the occasional fence-sitters as to what keeps them in the fof often seems to have a trail that leads back to ‘states’. They say they have had experiences that are extra-ordinary, and they seem willing to either look the other way, or justify, or dismiss in some way their leader’s actual lifestyle, predatory nature, unfulfilled prophecies, and absurd ideas, because they have had these special experiences which they feel, or fear are not available elsewhere.

Burton is a very powerful person. He has some sort of charismatic quality about him that has been able to hold this thing together for this long. He has undoubtedly discovered a few tips on how to control many people by seeing and then manipulating the weaknesses inherent in human nature. This is then empowered considerably by the fact that he may have no conscience. He may well live in a variety of altered states of consciousness and even be able to produce them in other people. Many people, some ‘good’ and some not so good, have been on this planet and have apparently had these same qualities. It seems obvious that Burton is not a ‘good’ man, nor does the word ‘spiritual’ describe him in any way. Yet there are evidently many that still follow.

Why is it that just these emotional-filled experiences, and altered states have such an effect upon people? And here I would certainly admit that when there, those things seemed like some sort of ‘verification’ that I was in the right place. I wonder why people can be so easily swayed, and become temporarily blind and deaf to the pain this man leaves in his wake, and to the fact that he takes and uses their money only to support his luxuriant lifestyle, just from having experiences that are outside of their ‘normal’ repertoire of experiences.

Is it only the fear of just standing here in the middle of this incredible unexplainable existence, in this apparently enormous universe and simply admit that I know nothing about its purpose or supposed meaning, and that quite possibly no one else does either?

284. One from the fence - May 2, 2009

To whomever:

So, let me get this straight. Nigel has offered multiple offenses of the most blatant as well as condescending and passive agressive sorts, and not only that has proven to be the sort of person who does not actually read the actual words that I have written, only to twist them and turn them into some corruptive flower, a cancer, if you will upon the original meaning I intended- and you all suggest that because he has a mental disorder I should allow this kind of behavior from him and treat him with kid gloves (even though when I have objected to rough handling from posters here I have been “reprimanded” that I should toughen up if I’m going to post here). Are you not completely hypocritical? How can you not see that you are hypocritical??

285. WhaleRider - May 2, 2009

Abstraction, Either/Or Thinking and Dualism

“There is an increasing awareness of the limits of linear thinking. Linear thought goes in a straight line from cause and effect, or from accepted premises to a conclusion at least partially determined by the premises ((that higher forces is controlling the show)).

Two-valued, either/or thinking is an integral part of linear thought. Dualism, the abstraction that stands behind either/or thinking, refers to splitting the cosmos, reality/existence-whatever you what to call it-into tow distinct and mutually exclusive categories. Monotheism’s division between the creator and creation is an absolute dualism.

Other examples are the spiritual and the worldly, reality and illusion, matter and spirit, etc. In dividing reality into separate binary categories, dualism produces more either/or thinking. It is either/or thinking that places the flowing in opposition: selfishness versus care; need versus love; and on a more abstract level, egotism versus altruism; and permanence versus change.

Other classic dualistic categories are mind/body, nature/culture, good/evil, insider/outsider, subject/object, higher/lower, reason/emotion, selfless/selfish, masculine/feminine, objective/subjective, ((head/heart)) etc.

After creating these separate categories, what inevitably follows-owing to the inbuilt nature of preference-is valuing one side of the polarity over the other. This either/or structuring lends itself to a simple morality where good and bad, the selfless and the selfish, are divided in an absolute way.

Then comes the mistaken corollary: by suppressing one side of the polarity (the supposed bad, wrong, (unconscious) or less valued side), the other more desired side is automatically enhanced. This unavoidably leads to trying to get rid of or deny the side that has been villainized.

It may be the human brain, because of the way it is constructed, has an easier time thinking in either/or categories, or this tendency may be deeply, culturally rooted-or both.

Probably when humanity began to realize the power of abstraction through using symbols via writing and numbers, dualistic categories and either/or thinking increased. This is especially true when dealing with numbers.

Numbers lend themselves to either/or conceptualizing: I either have three coins or I do not have three coins.

It is important to understand how the clear-cut separations, rigid boundaries, and often artificial polarizations created by two-valued, binary thinking easily fuel and reinforce authoritarianism. Either/or conceptualizing makes it easier to organize and control people.

A dualistic morality where the concepts of good and evil, or selfless and selfish ((conscious and unconscious)) are internalized, coupled with an omniscient God ((or c-influence)) or abstract principle (karma) that “sees” every act, shifts control to internal mechanisms such as fear or guilt. When one side of a dualism is valued more than the other, or thought of as superior or higher (however defined), this sets up a hierarchy of value.

Authoritarian hierarchy was the fast track to using others. Humans themselves became a resource to use ((exploit)), accumulate, and reproduce. Any ruler who did not jump on this bandwagon was swallowed by those who did.

Power within a CULTure is directly related to who creates and controls its symbol systems. Throughout history abstractions have been consciously or unconsciously used by those who create them to support their self-interest and justify their privileges.

There are those today who challenge dualistic thinking. They see how such conceptualizing has been used to justify great inequities by asserting, “I’m this (superior) and you’re that (something less). Some ecologists rightly link the culture/nature dualism with civilization’s alienation from nature and exploitive abuse of it.

In examining the limitations of both either/or thinking and the dualistic categories that underlie it, we are not suggesting they could or should be done away with. Doing so would merely be dualism in another guise. Although either/or thinking is not wrong in itself, in some of the most important arenas of like it is inappropriate and even harmful.

Eastern spiritual traditions have correctly intuited the serious limitations of linear thought in terms of its being insufficient for ‘other’ kinds of awareness. But, given this, they have largely concluded that thought itself is the big hindrance to higher realms of consciousness. Their ensuing villainization of thought is, ironically, a revealing example of linear, either/or thinking. The mistake is to assume linear thought represents all thought.

The Eastern methodology thus involves negating thought to transcend it, without recognition of the dangers of disarming one’s critical faculties. Authoritarianism depends on such “mental disarmament”, which reinforces its ((Burtons’s)) capacity to control people emotionally through manipulating fear, desire, surrender, etc. This is a grave flaw in Eastern ((or Burton’s)) perspectives.

Since thought cannot be eliminated, devaluing it mainly leads to poor and uncritically naive thinking-and ultimately to more unconsciousness, as opposed to greater awareness.

((…James Mclemore: therein lies Burton’s ‘power’ as you say, he thrives on the unconsciousness he creates and perpetuates in his followers through emotional manipulation.))

What makes us uniquely human is our capacity to use thought not only as a tool for problem-solving, but as a structure builder that allows us to integrate our experience in creative and self-reflective ways.

The idea that we as a species have already pushed thought to its limit is itself a very limited, and in a sense arrogant, perspective-especially given that humanity’s mental capacities have been drastically limited by its authoritarian conditioning.

Our survival as a species now depends on our using what we have (including ourselves and each other) more awarely and care-fully.

The symbol systems of the renunciate moralities that hierarchically leveraged human power through turning “difference” into institutionalized dominance and subordination are no longer viable in dealing with a world of limit.

The sacrifice of the many to the few that accumulation CULTures have required is now counter-productive.”

~The Guru Papers

286. ton - May 2, 2009

283 ya James, as for people buying into the fof, i agree it has a lot to do with the human search for meaning in life, that in conjunction with a type of arrested development. we all were once little girls and little boys and relied on adult authority figures to provide everything that ensured existence…. i think there is a vestigial aspect of that psychology lingering on into adulthood, especially young ‘adulthood’ when many of ‘us’ here were drawn into the spider’s web…. the ‘guru’ syndrome seems to take advantage of filling a ‘subconscious’ need for an authority figure…. for some, the relationship of ‘chela’ to ‘guru’ provides a structure which gives meaning to life, it is based at least in part on the familiarity of earlier childhood developmental stages, it represents a sort of continuity and continuation of childhood, it’s a state in which one abdicates more or less, one’s own personal responsibility in exchange for some degree of comfort and the imagined assurance that one will be taken care of here, and hereafter… some folks just don’t know what to do with their freedom…. or remain ignorant of it altogether…. etc.

287. nigel harris price - May 2, 2009

285 One from the fence

“Oh, poor thing” – I think you said earlier…..Nigel

288. The FOFion - May 3, 2009

Miss California to Campaign Against Gay Gurus

WASHINGTON, D.C. (ARK) — The reigning Miss California has gone to Washington to help launch a campaign opposing same-sex gurus.

The 21-year-old says that sexual coercion by heterosexual gurus is “something that is very dear to my heart” and she’s in Washington to help save it.

She told NBC’s “Today” show Thursday that she’ll be working with the National Organization for Heterosexual Cults to “protect traditional sexual coercion and psychological manipulation of trusting followers by heterosexual cult leaders.”

She says many people have thanked her for standing up for traditional heterosexual cults.

Miss California was named the first runner-up to Miss North Carolina in the Miss USA pageant April 19. Her response to celebrity blogger Perez Hilton’s question about legalizing same-sex gurus may have cost her the title.

The reigning Miss California has gone to Washington to help launch a campaign opposing same-sex gurus.

289. nigel harris price - May 3, 2009


I meant to say 284, not 285…..Nigel.

290. ton - May 3, 2009

is anybody else having trouble accessing and posting youtube links here, or is it something with my computer?

291. Jomo Piñata - May 3, 2009

Your youtube links keep showing up here, ton.

292. nigel harris price - May 3, 2009

284 One from the fence

By the way, you should check your grammar!…..Nigel

293. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

On a side topic (no doubt much less significant than the irritable contentiousness of mine of late) is an idea that just occurred to me regarding “intentional suffering” as a means to aid awakening.

Someone previously offered the insight that the 10 commandments could be taken as “suggestions.” And also that Gurdjieff possibly viewed many of the principals he taught in a flexible, not rigid manner. So, with this, intentional suffering (and no doubt things of that manner) are suggestions that we could take in and hold on the back burner should we find ourselves in the third state, perhaps wavering a little bit, and need a little something to help re-center ourselves in this moment.

A lot of things like that were taken formator-ily to the point where if I moved my legs during a meeting I felt a scolding glare from fellow-students. Maybe that was just their response to me personally, though, as my inner world was somewhat of a loose cannon.

294. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

But I want to add that I have not verified for myself that it was anyone’s true intention for such ideas to be taken in a formatory and rigid “must do this to awaken” type of manner. Possibly, though, such things as the dining exercise, took a religious significance, as do certain catholic or buddhist rituals- kind of like “When we eat, we do this, and in such a way we position our consciousnesses to remember to awaken.” But never: “To not do this is bad!! bad!! bad!!” – that would be a misinterperatation.

If I verify that it was Robert’s true intention that these things be taken rigidly, than that would be and indication for me that his teaching is false.

295. ton - May 3, 2009

it’s true that life can be complicated at times but from the sounds of your last two posts you make it much more complicated than it need be… a word of advice; avoid the mental gymnastics, the rationalizing and justifying, forget about things like ‘Robert’s true intention’ — simply be.

296. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

295. I don’t think you understand. I’m thinking of returning to the FOF for the sake of my evolution. That kind of talk sounds a little like some complaints I’ve heard against Robert that he didn’t want people to actually think about anything.

297. in2it - May 3, 2009

ton, (youtube works for me, too).

yes, it’s definitely true that the FOF promotes a sort of confused mental gymnastics. Self-reflection and self-examination are healthy. But self-loathing and hyper-analysis: not healthy at all, and that’s what the FOF often becomes. Part of that is the use of the “language.”

One from the fence, did you say you’ve already left? thinking about leaving? My only advice is that part of the trap is the use of the “words” such as “formatory” and “exercise” and “verified” and “awaken.” I strongly suggest finding new words — it’s part of putting the FOF behind.

Conversely, continuing to use the FOF words is part of not letting go of the FOF.

So, try replacing “self-observation” with “self-examination.” Just one example. It works. It’s healthy. It opens your eyes.

298. in2it - May 3, 2009

ton, (youtube works for me, too).

yes, it’s definitely true that the FOF promotes a sort of confused mental gymnastics. Self-reflection and self-examination are healthy. But self-loathing and hyper-analysis: not healthy at all, and that’s what the FOF often becomes. Part of that is the use of the “language.”

One from the fence, did you say you’ve already left? thinking about leaving? My only advice is that part of the trap is the use of the “words” such as “formatory” and “exercise” and “verified” and “awaken.” I strongly suggest finding new words — it’s part of putting the FOF behind.

Conversely, continuing to use the FOF words is part of not letting go of the FOF.

So, try replacing “self-observation” with “self-examination.” Just one example. It works. It’s healthy. It opens your eyes.

p.s. Ok, just read your next post, One from the fence. Speaking of words, think about the word “complaint” that you used in your post. Is there something wrong with expressing a complaint against Burton and the FOF? That’s one of those red flags that you’re in a cult — when criticism is frowned upon. Consider the possibility that your “evolution” may depend upon not shutting down your ability to think critically — about yourself (self examination, “self-observation”, right?), and about the things and people you get involved with.

299. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

297. One from the fence, did you say you’ve already left? thinking about leaving? My only advice is that part of the trap is the use of the “words” such as “formatory” and “exercise” and “verified” and “awaken.” I strongly suggest finding new words — it’s part of putting the FOF behind.

This is the perfect example that many do not actually READ the posts nor the poster they are responding to.

300. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

And: can you think of a better word than “verify?” maybe it’s a trap for you, but I’m using it because it’s good, and because we all understand what it means.

301. in2it - May 3, 2009

I have absolutely no idea who you are, and I’ve read almost none of your posts. I’m not sure what you mean by “fence” … you seem like you’re pretty much “in” and not too open to any ideas that cast doubt on this cult. I wish you well, though. We’ve all been there.

302. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

297. I just realized I am guilty exactly of what I accused you of- did not even see your last paragraph.

303. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

300. You haven’t address my actual post, rather the post someone posted in response to my post.

304. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

300. That’s the problem with Christianity, actually- that people are dissuaded from it because someone responds errantly to it, and then someone else responds to their errant response.

305. nigel harris price - May 3, 2009


Fortunately, or unfortunately though it may be, I normally read all but the longest and contorted posts on this blog. ‘One from the fence’ – by all means return to the FOF where you will become, again, a ‘spiritual automaton’ and (thank God!) you will be advised to stay off the blog. We could use the fresh air…..Nigel.

P.S. – grammar – “the poster to which they are reponding”.

306. in2it - May 3, 2009

This is cool… it’s like an IM conversation. Anyway, gotta go… have a great Sunday, and best wishes.

307. nigel harris price - May 3, 2009

301/302/303 One from the fence

Go see a shrink rather than return to the FOF. Actually, I am not sure which is more expensive, financially or psychologically…..Nigel.

308. One from the fence - May 3, 2009

Elena! Nigel’s insulting me!!!!!! Tell him to stop!!!

309. nigel harris price - May 3, 2009

“Tell the Dauphin he hath picked a fight
With such a wrangler…..”

…..and don’t get a ‘precious jewel’ of a woman TO DO YOUR DIRTY WORK!

310. Renald - May 3, 2009

suddenly the page returns to a level of quality that had apparently been forgotten for a while. It must have just been a distraction.
Cheers! ps hope this comment appears on 71 as it is time to turn to 72.

311. Susan Zannos - May 3, 2009
312. elena - May 3, 2009

One from the Fence, thanks for your posts, that’s the last one I read from you. Have fun!

313. nigel harris price - May 3, 2009

311 elena

Moe likely he’ll be ‘funny peculiar’…..Nigel.

314. ton - May 3, 2009

296 fenceboy writes, “….That kind of talk sounds a little like some complaints I’ve heard against Robert that he didn’t want people to actually think about anything.”

you really are confused… and obviously you need help. just to clarify my last post, i wasn’t suggesting that you not think about anything as you say, rather, that there are some things that are mere distractions and a waste of time… but hey it’s your time so waste it as you will.

fenceboy writes; “I’m thinking of returning to the FOF for the sake of my evolution…”

come on now fencey, tell the truth here… you never really left the fof, did you… i know how difficult it is to leave, better folks than you have tried and failed…. so i wish you good luck with your so-called ‘evolution.’ (but then you’ll need more than luck, especially if you sell your soul to that lot).

315. brucelevy - May 3, 2009

313. ton

You know there are certain types of personalities that are drawn to the FOF for the stage (as in theatrical) it can present for people who wish to feed their various personal neurosis, neediness and narcissism. It can be a highly effective petri dish to grow all sorts of ugly personas

316. WhaleRider - May 4, 2009

one with the fence:

“…can you think of a better word than “verify?”

How about “indoctrinated”?

As in:

“But I want to add that I am not aware of having indoctrinated myself to unconsciously project that it was Burton’s selfless intention for such requirements not be taken in a dualistic and rigid “must do this to awaken” but if you don’t you will be asked to leave the cult type of manner…and at the same time, I follow the rule without question in fear of being shamed or worse, being asked to leave the group.

Possibly, though, such required actions as the dining rule, have a hidden and significant effect, as do certain catholic or buddhist thought conforming rituals- kind of like “When we eat, we do this, and in such a way we position one cult-sanctioned part of our consciousnesses to remember to self-censor the other cult-unsanctioned part of ourselves, thus keeping our psyches divided and in a perpetual state of surrender and dependence to our authority figure.

If I have been unknowingly indoctrinated to falsely believe that it was Burton’s selfless intention that these required actions be taken very seriously by some followers and not others, then that would be an indication for me that his authoritarian style of mind control is really to further his own self-interest and the people who were asked to leave for breaking the rules should be allowed to stay if they so wish to continue freely self-deprecating themselves.”

BTW, here’s another word (concept) for you:

Triangulation is most commonly used to express a situation in which one family member will not communicate directly with another family member, but will communicate with a third family member, forcing the third family member to then be part of the triangle. The concept originated in the study of dysfunctional family systems, but can describe behaviors in other systems as well, including work.

Triangulation can also be used as a label for a form of “splitting” in which one person plays a third person against the person that they are upset about. This is playing the two people against each other, but usually the person doing the splitting, will also engage in character assassination, only with both parties.”

…from Wikipedia.

To her credit, twice elena has had the common sense not to fall for your unconscious ploy.

What do you hope to gain here?

317. Ill Never Tell - May 4, 2009

296. One from the fence:

‘295. I don’t think you understand. I’m thinking of returning to the FOF for the sake of my evolution. That kind of talk sounds a little like some complaints I’ve heard against Robert that he didn’t want people to actually think about anything.’

No, One from the fence, YOU do not understand. By the very nature of YOU being ‘from the fence,’ your position dictates that you can not under stand. [Then, again, maybe he is a trapeze artist?]

I know I said this before: There goes Jason, sitting on a fence, trying to make a dollar out of ninety-nine cents.

You must be a legend in your own mind.

318. Yesri Baba - May 4, 2009

“I know I said this before: There goes Jason, sitting on a fence, trying to make a dollar out of ninety-nine cents.”

Won’t someone tell the poor boy he’s got a penny in his pocket?

319. Ill Never Tell - May 4, 2009

317. Yesri Baba:

‘Won’t someone tell the poor boy he’s got a penny in his pocket?’

No, Yesri, no penny in the pocket.
It’s a penny for his thoughts and I ain’t buying. Nobody is buying. That’s why he keeps sitting on the fence. He’ll keep trying to put his two cents worth in. I suggest he turn on a dime and give two cents change. (I said it before.)

320. nigel harris price - May 4, 2009

With all this talk of playing with money in pocket ‘One from the fence’ will probably feel cocky all day…..Nigel.

321. fofblogmoderator - May 4, 2009

The blog has to shut down for one day for maintenance. We should be up and running again by tuesday.

322. fofblogmoderator - May 5, 2009

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