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Fellowship Of Friends Discussion – Part 66 February 21, 2009

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.

Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

For recent pages from the blog go here

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

To visit “Pathway To Presence”, the newly created web site for recruiting new members to the Fellowship; http://www.pathwaytopresence.org

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, taking up too much space, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban or a leave of absence from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/


1. elena - February 21, 2009

It’s been a long time. Congratulations for a beautiful page and an excellent video Whalerider.
I deserve everything you all gave me and didn’t give me. I thank you each for your gift. I regret my multiple mistakes. It is good to know that I am in good hands.

2. ton - February 21, 2009

the previous page proves (apologies for the alliteration) that like a fine wine the blog improves with age….

i’m impressed, the video is great! i think of it as an “antivirus” much as is the greater fellowship and the blog here…

thanks 2good2btrue your story reaffirms that the mostly online community called the GREATER FELLOWSHIP is a more REAL and TRUE fellowship of friends… while the organization that surrounds the necrotic canker at the center of the fof is at best farcical and mostly criminal.

whalerider, i sent hyperlinks to the video to appropriate friends / family and marsall kilduff, the reporter at the sf chronicle who covered the PEOPLES TEMPLE ‘as seen on t.v. — ‘ check it out:


“The documentary makes the point that there are many terrible cults out there that are not even on the radar….”

here’s to putting the FOF on the radar…

whalerider, i plan to make a trip west this summer (july), if you’re around then, i hope we can meet and (maybe) work on part two…

3. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 21, 2009

65/299. Spoonful Blues:

‘William Blake:
“The road to excess leads to the palace of wisdom.”’

William Blake
The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Proverbs of Hell.

In seed time learn,
in harvest teach,
in winter enjoy.
Drive your cart and your plow
over the bones of the dead.
The road of excess leads
to the palace of wisdom.

Prudence is a rich ugly
old maid courted by Incapacity.
He who desires but
acts not, breeds pestilence.
The cut worm forgives the plow.
Dip him in the river
who loves water.
A fool sees not the same tree
that a wise man sees.
He whose face gives no light,
shall never become a star.

Eternity is in love with
the productions of time.
The busy bee has
no time for sorrow.
The hours of folly are
measur’d by the clock,
but of wisdom:
no clock can measure.
All wholsom food is caught
without a net or a trap.
Bring out number weight
& measure in a year of dearth.
No bird soars too high,
if he soars with his own wings.

A dead body revenges not injuries.
The most sublime act is
to set another before you.
If the fool would persist in his folly
he would become wise.
Folly is the cloke of knavery.
Shame is Prides cloke.

Prisons are built with
stones of Law,
Brothels with
bricks of Religion.

The pride of the peacock
is the glory of God.
The lust of the goat
is the bounty of God.
The wrath of the lion
is the wisdom of God.
The nakedness of woman
is the work of God.
Excess of sorrow laughs.
Excess of joy weeps.
The roaring of lions,
the howling of wolves,
the raging of the stormy sea,
and the destructive sword,
are portions of eternity
too great for the eye of man.
The fox condemns
the trap, not himself.

Joys impregnate.
Sorrows bring forth.
Let man wear
the fell of the lion.
woman the fleece
of the sheep.
The bird a nest,
the spider a web,
man friendship.
The selfish smiling fool,
& the sullen frowning fool
shall be both thought wise,
that they may be a rod.
What is now proved
was once only imagin’d.

The rat, the mouse, the fox,
the rabbet; watch the roots;
the lion, the tyger, the horse,
the elephant, watch the fruits.
The cistern contains:
the fountain overflows.
One thought fills immensity.
Always be ready
to speak your mind,
and a base man
will avoid you.
Every thing possible
to be believ’d
is an image of truth.
The eagle never
lost so much time,
as when he submitted
to learn of the crow.

The fox provides
for himself.
but God provides
for the lion.
Think in the morning.
Act in the noon.
Eat in the evening.
Sleep in the night.
He who has suffer’d
you to impose on him
knows you.
As the plow follows words,
so God rewards prayers.
The tygers of wrath are
wiser than the horses of instruction.
Expect poison from
the standing water.
You never know
what is enough
unless you know
what is more than enough.

Listen to the fools reproach!
it is a kingly title!
The eyes of fire,
the nostrils of air,
the mouth of water,
the beard of earth.
The weak in courage
is strong in cunning.
The apple tree never
asks the beech
how he shall grow;
nor the lion, the horse,
how he shall take his prey.
The thankful reciever
bears a plentiful harvest.
If others bad not been foolish,
we should be so.
The soul of sweet delight
can never be defil’d.
When thou seest an Eagle,
thou seest a portion of Genius.
lift up thy head!
As the catterpiller chooses
the fairest leaves to lay her eggs,
so the priest lays
his curse on the fairest joys.

To create a little flower
is the labour of ages.
Damn braces:
Bless relaxes.
The best wine
is the oldest,
the best water
the newest.
Prayers plow not!
Praises reap not!
Joys laugh not!
Sorrows weep not!

The head Sublime,
the heart Pathos,
the genitals Beauty,
the hands & feet Proportion.
As the air to a bird
or the sea to a fish,
so is contempt
to the contemptible.
The crow wish’d every
thing was black,
the owl,
that every thing was white.
Exuberance is Beauty.
If the lion was advised by the fox.
he would be cunning.
Improvement makes strait roads,
but the crooked roads
without Improvement,
are roads of Genius.
Sooner murder
an infant in its cradle
than nurse unacted desires.
Where man is not,
nature is barren.
Truth can never be told
so as to be understood,
and not be believ’d.
Enough! or Too much.

The ancient Poets
animated all sensible objects
with Gods or Geniuses,
calling them by the names
and adorning them
with the properties of woods,
rivers, mountains, lakes,
cities, nations, and
whatever their enlarged
& numerous senses could percieve.
And particularly they studied
the genius of each city & country,
placing it under its mental deity;
Till a system was formed,
which some took advantage of
& enslav’d the vulgar by
attempting to realize or
abstract the mental deities from
their objects: thus began Priesthood;
Choosing forms of worship
from poetic tales.
And at length they
pronounc’d that the Gods
had order’d such things.
Thus men forgot that
All deities reside
in the human breast.

[Bold emphasis mine.]


65/300. tatyana:

‘I really wish him to run away from all this hell…’

4. nigel harris price - February 21, 2009

late page 65 and onwards

It seems we are getting to the ‘nitty-gritty’ in the blogsite these days – doing what we need to do and less time spent on personal problems – I’m all for that…..Nigel.

5. Yesri Baba - February 21, 2009

“Because who is chosen to urinate on RB? Me. Who is asked to sh…t on RB? Me. I am not going to read this f…g blog! I don’t know how people write and do not afraid that they will be run over buy a bus”

I’d be a bit more afraid to find myself pissing and shitting on my ‘teacher’.

6. Yesri Baba - February 21, 2009

I don’t know why but sometimes simple little things like that statement just stick in my mind and bug me.

Is this person suggesting that people relating an actual occurance (assuming it is) could come to an unfortunate demise by the hand of some hidden force, perhaps the same force that has chosen to have him shit and piss on someone?

Wouldn’t simple common sense and a little self reflection suggest a slight tweeking of- I don’t know- how you think about stuff?

7. Anna - February 21, 2009

Hello Yesri

Actually I don’t find the contradictions in the boys statements surprising. Common sense and a little self reflection were precisely what we were taught to avoid.

Before being drawn into Robert Burtons machinations, Tatiana’s young friend had probably been appalled at what adult life turned out to be like. He was desperate to escape it. When he found out about this phenomenon called ‘awakening’ or ‘enlightenment’ or ‘consciousness’ there was a sparkle of hope at last. If he could awaken he could escape honourably, without becoming lost in life’s corruptions.

Then he discovered the Fellowship of Friends, and he was warned that there was a price to pay for this consciousness. He trusted the Fellowship because he had for as long as he could remember been desperate to trust someone, but everyone and every thing had failed him. But this system and these students seemed so plausible, so sincere; it was easy to pin his dreams on to them. He was told that ‘awakening’ was very difficult and that the more he paid and suffered the more likely he was to achieve it.

He was told from the start that Robert Burton was conscious. He hoped desperately that this was true. He had longed for someone who he could respect and trust enough to lead him in to the light. Burton suggested to him that he was special and that he had rare potential.

Burton pampered him as he began to believe that he deserved. The boy was told that it was his ‘play’ his fate, to be part of the elite. He also learned that if he didn’t want or value the patronage of the earth’s greatest ever conscious being, he could go and work long hours in the vineyard or return penniless to Siberia. These understandings caused twinges of fear which luckily dissolved at the glorious sunny potager lunches, and other events.

Finally Robert Burton asked the boy to do something that for him was unimaginably disgusting and that would accelerate his chances proportionately; he persuaded him to do what ‘Inner circle Facts’ described on this blog (see end page 65)

During these hellish orgies he would sometimes experience what I have now learned is called psychosis. His consciousness would leave his body, or a strange peace would overwhelm him and transport him away from the agony that his body was experiencing. He would tell himself that these experiences were ‘higher states’.

In the wake of these nightmarish orgies, he felt again the twinges of fear and doubt. Sometimes he would even be carried away with paranoia: what if he were expelled? What about the guns people carried around here? How could he go anywhere without money and qualifications or even a visa?

But above all he WANTED to believe, he was desperate to believe that Robert and his promises were genuine. It was a belief that he was already paying for dearly… he couldn’t afford to be wrong.

When his friend Tatiana asked him about the truth of Inner Cirle’s expose, he admitted that the post was about him that, that he had been
“… chosen to urinate on RB” that he had been “asked to sh…t on RB” he said “I don’t know how people write and do not afraid that they will be run over buy a bus!”

But in the light of his great hope, and of more sunny potager lunches, and the support of his plausible fellow students, often his instinctive fears and repulsions would dwindle.

I guess instinctive fears and repulsions are what balanced folk call ‘common sense’

8. Anna - February 21, 2009

Inner circle facts Says:
March 1st, 2007 at 8:25 am
Are you ready for some brutal facts?
Who would like to know how its really happening in his bad room? OK folks,fasten your sit belts,the Kansas going Bye Bye…
Did you know that usual orgies are formed from 4 to 6 student?.Usually two of them are SIMULTANEOUSLY entering Burton’s anus.Third person is laying on his back while Mr.Burton is providing him an oral sex while two from both sides are subject to the masturbation by MR.Burton with his two hands.
Some time there is one more student who’s role is to hold Burton’s testicles in his mouth during the whole time.Prior to all, by Burton’s request Viagra pills are shared and swallowed between all members of the orgy which are constantly provided by Mr.G.
Some time you can hear Burton’s words during the sexual activities “How incredible! We are getting closer,aren’t we?”
Some of them are asked to suck his nipples and his toes.All sperm gets swallowed by Mr.Burton at the end of the act.But that is not all yet.
There are two students who had the most terrifying and most humiliating role to play (in my opinion).They have to enter with their hands by their elbows into the Burton’s anus.(Looking for Consciousness perhaps)..both students are Russians.One of them had left the school and the other has been “shipped” back to Russia for disobedience.
And now get this:
Beside those depraved scenes there is another one which going to shake you all:
There is another act that Burton is preforming with a specific student of his own “inner circle”.This act of Humiliation is performed in his bath room while Burton is laying down and 3 students are urinating right on him!
And on the next morning,like nothing happened Mr.Burton is leading the meeting on Love?
How cynical indeed!

9. abraham franklin - February 21, 2009


Well done for the film, which would do better for having more voices, those some of those mentioned i dare say would not be willing or able to participate.

10. peter mac - February 21, 2009

this way of disassociating in the form of casually attending meetings following his shitting and pissing reception is clearly psychotic behaviour ……………………..

11. fofblogmoderator - February 21, 2009

#1 is newly moderated- welcome back Elena

12. nigel harris price - February 21, 2009

1 elena

Symbolic re-entrance! A pub friend, Leanne (change the letters around and add an ‘n’), bought a special necklace from me this evening, as a gift for her mother. It is silver with amethyst beads and a centre-stone and depicts the Egyptian ‘Eye of Horus’ (Elizabeth Taylor’s make-up in the film ‘Cleopatra’). May I wish you balance and renewed energy, Elena…..Nigel.

13. in2it - February 21, 2009

Worth reposting the following, to understate it a bit…

221. WhaleRider – February 19, 2009
As promised….


Your feedback is appreciated.

Feel free to share it with “friends”.

14. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 21, 2009

#10: And we all did it to one degree or another and maybe still do. Part of the horror of seeing oneself and others I think.

15. in2it - February 21, 2009


Regarding, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” …

In one part of the film, it’s mentioned that Troy developed an ulcer. Troy told me the same. I recall thinking at the time that it was more than a little odd for someone his age. I had no idea at the time that he was “involved” with Burton, although I’m sure there were signs that I simply didn’t want to acknowledge. It’s rather amazing how easily one dismisses that sense that “something is odd about that,” and not ask more questions.

The question is, why didn’t/don’t we ask questions?

People have mentioned on the blog those aspects of group think and group behavior that permeates any group — and particularly cults. But there’s another aspect to it that I haven’t noticed being mentioned directly, and that’s the existence of a hierarchy in the FOF.

It’s not a surprise, but there’s a tendency to attach more credibility to those who are “high up” in that hierarchy.

However, I recall many meetings (when people still gave “angles”) where a new voice would stand up in the back of the room and begin to speak — someone from New York or Atlanta or some other far-away center — and you’d naturally see many people turn around to see who was talking. That turn of the head by 15 people was a sign of one of the machinations that kept alive the habit of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”

And that’s the tendency only to listen to someone if they fall into the following categories:
— often have formal dinners with “Robert”
— often lead meetings
— have been in the FOF for a long time
— have been a center director
— are generally considered having a “higher level of being” by “Robert”

One of the best ways to get an ulcer is to have a great, terrible secret combined with having no one who will listen to you. What kept and keeps the FOF afloat is that people don’t pay attention enough to those supposedly low in the hierarchy — like Troy.

I hope by now we’re seeing just how much nonsense that is. And I hope we don’t carry some of the same vibe onto the blog.

16. tatyana - February 21, 2009

7 Anna

You are right about psychoses. Fear, paranoia, psychoses, neuroses etc – are common states in FOF. Plus the state of trance.
But what is important to consider talking abut FOF is that Robert Burton has an amazing talent to scare people and manipulate them thru this fear, the horror. I don’t know how he does it, but he does it. Once you out of his spell it looks absurd, but when you are in, there is not way you can take it easy.

Plus synchronisities… Just yesterday I had a dinner with friends in town and we were talking about RB when the waiter came to our table in sweater with the word “BURTON” on it. It also had 2 wings (faded and wahsed out kind of wings) around the word. Spooked me and especially the current students. “You see? That’s it!!!”

Robert completely changed the perception of a God as a nice Santa Claus fellow in to this horrible, powerful force that only bring enormous shocks and suffering in one’s life. When he himself is in close relationship with them.

This is why my friend was afraid for us on the blog ‘playing with the wiskers of a bad big tiger’ so to speak – C Influence. He once also mentioned to me – we don’t know if this C Influence is actually not Evil or Devil himself, because what it makes me to do is so nasty and ugly like in prison or in hell!

He had to be on duty a few times a week…

17. lauralupa - February 21, 2009

life is full of synchronicities. For example, yesterday I was thinking of an old friend I hadn’t seen or heard from for years, and today he sent me a message on facebook. But Burton has trained the poor members of fof to interpret synchronicities in a scary, bizarre and especially superstitious way. Also, instead of just letting these things happen, people are encouraged to actively look for all sorts of signs and omens, and then things get really weird. In the early nineties, one of the inner circle boys’ esoteric activities was to examine their cafe and restaurant bills looking for 19.98s and 20.06s, possibly now they have shifted to $20.12…

18. veramente - February 22, 2009

Tatyana 14
C influence is Cruel influence and RB interpreted it for his own interests.
Another tool to keep us under His Influence.

19. lauralupa - February 22, 2009

Everyone is trying to get to the bar.
The name of the bar, the bar is called heaven.
The band in heaven plays my favorite song.
They play it once again, they play it all night long.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

There is a party, everyone is there.
Everyone will leave at exactly the same time.
Its hard to imagine that nothing at all
Could be so exciting, and so much fun.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

When this kiss is over it will start again.
It will not be any different, it will be exactly
The same.
Its hard to imagine that nothing at all
Could be so exciting, could be so much fun.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

20. Just the Facts Ma'am - February 22, 2009

65/273 & 274. Just the Facts Ma’am

Just a matter of some balanced reporting here on the blog: There are a large number of sex partners in the ‘inner circle’ of the Fellowship of Friends that are perfectly content with their circumstances and participate willingly, consenting, with full knowledge of their actions, and with glee. That is what they want from their life and accept it as normal.

21. nigel harris price - February 22, 2009

18 Just the Facts Ma’am

Chacun a son gout, n’est-ce pas?…..Nigel.

22. Anna - February 22, 2009

I have known several men have admitted to me that they were sexual partners of Robert Burton. They all loathed it. They would try to lessen their repulsion by imagining that they were with a woman or by ‘dissociating’ (naturally I only learned this word after leaving.)

Dissociating is a common way of dealing with abuse. I have done it myself.

If a person has their personal boundaries trespassed repeatedly they may not realise what is happening, that they are in fact being harmed.

Some diseases also enter our bodies in this way, by stealth and in disguise. It takes a while for the immune system to kick in and for the damage to be felt by the whole body.

All the people that I have met did it not out of personal preference but because they had been programmed to believe that by enduring the friction they would ‘awaken’.

Having left the cult it some former participants have a period of denial or rest, afterwhich the full horror of what they had submitted themselves to may make itself felt and healing begin to occur.

23. nigel harris price - February 22, 2009


I always thought, while I was in the FOF, that, if it were a ‘school of love’, then students who became married (no matter how many times!) were trying to attain the highest forms of love possible by their relationships. I even thought that REB was ‘falling in love’ with his male partners. Having been out of the Fellowship for many years, and looking back on what I came across, and also hearing of the obscene and lude acts of REB and knowing, on reflection, that some students entered into relationships for ‘political’ reasons (i.e. to be closer to the hub of the school) or to obtain residency in the USA etc., that very few attempts were being made at attaining what may be called ‘purity of motive’. There was one statistic that was always ‘bandied about’ in the Fellowship – the rate of divorce in the FOF is higher than in life. One sarcastic ‘older student’ used to refer to the Fellowship as ‘the slow-moving orgy’. Certainly true for REB – how true for others?…..Nigel.

24. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 22, 2009

15. lauralupa:

‘one of the inner circle boys’ esoteric activities was to examine their cafe and restaurant bills looking for 19.98s and 20.06s, possibly now they have shifted to $20.12…’

If God, the universe, Influence C, or whatever you want to call it, wanted to communicate something to a person about ‘synchronicities,’ or anything else (mysterious Fellowship style), it would not be necessary to hunt for them, they would appear and/or be revealed naturally; and usually unmistakably. More likely, the more one looks for these things, the more one will find them, just for the looking, and the patterning of one’s mental processes. Also, time, as we know it, is man’s contrivance, any dates or time, or numbers, like you mention above, are meaningless to the mind and wisdom behind the veil of the universe.

25. Anna - February 22, 2009

Hi Nigel,

Some thoughts… From what I have learned/seen cult leaders try to undermine any bonds followers have with people other than themselves. They do this by interfering with their sexuality.

Typically they require their followers either to be promiscuous, so that they don’t form any firm bonds. Or they enforce celibacy which has the same effect.

For a long Robert Burton required either celibacy from his followers or ‘marriage’. Our marriages were shaky matters which we often rushed into naively and under great pressure from the authorities. They were entered into in the usual ‘magical’ atmosphere of lawlessness/ being beyond the law which Burton promoted.

The ‘teaching’ froze most followers in the shallow and narcissistic level of psychological development that is common to teenagers… we were dreamy, we simply weren’t ready for the level of honest introspection, commonsense and genuine giving that I imagine a successful marriage requires.

Burton further rocked at the foundations of our relationships by courting our male partners with impunity. When living at Apollo I rarely had family meals with my ‘husbands’.

Burton’s goal was to turn the school into a large feeding bowl from which he could draw sex and or money.

Initially he had felt threatened by our relationships with each other and controlled them with exercises, but once he had groomed spouses sufficiently to accept his intrusions he dropped the no sex before marriage task.

He has repeatedly asked followers not to come to him with questions about relationship problems. Our relationships irritated him unless they were blatent food sources.

Finally, following his example and fearing accusations of feminine Dominance’ followers edged anxiously towards a kind of promiscuity…

26. peter mac - February 22, 2009

human nature encourages gregariousness ………….primal urges ….safety in numbers …………ostracising is a key card pathalogical leaders use …………….

27. nigel harris price - February 22, 2009

23 Anna

Thank you for being so honest (and, in being so honest, having the strength to be so). Looking back on my post, I realize I might have been more than a little disrespectful to those who had made honest efforts in their relationships. My parents were married (quite solidly) for 45 years before my mother died in 2001 and I never ventured much into working towards a true relationship/marriage in the FOF (maybe the odd dinner date!) and was probably not much of a ‘catch’, being an impoverished Solar by nature. I particularly appreciated your reference to REB turning the FOF into a ‘sexual feeding bowl’. Thank God REB never got a chance to make advances on me. I was not a ‘pretty boy’ then and am less so now…

28. fofblogmoderator - February 22, 2009

13 & 15 are newly moderated

29. battlesword - February 22, 2009

That there is no love
Where the ego (still) lies
That the threaded bonds of ego-ness
Don’t allow for love to grow roots or flowers

A layer above
A land beyond
A dimension deeper within
Where the city proclaims the boundaries
For boundaries
Love holds.

On the sidewalk
The bus and the subway
And the park of course

Under the shade of the tree
In every window that looks out
That looks in
And in the market, source of sources
As in the air we breathe and
The water we drink.

Love holds what no one can hold
But is held by.
The only real master for whom
Submission is grace.

30. elena - February 22, 2009

15. in2it – February 21, 2009
“The question is, why didn’t/don’t we ask questions?

People have mentioned on the blog those aspects of group think and group behavior that permeates any group — and particularly cults. But there’s another aspect to it that I haven’t noticed being mentioned directly, and that’s the existence of a hierarchy in the FOF.”

From the Rape of the Mind by Meerloo: “It is not only the suggestive power of these (public) media that gives them their hypnotizing effect. Our technical means of communication make of the people one huge participating mass. Even when I am alone with my radio, I am technically united with the huge mass of other listeners. I see them in my mind, I unconsciouly identify with them, and while I am listening I am one with them. Yet I have no direct emotional contact with them. It is partly for this reason that radio and television tend to take away active affectionate relationships between men and to destroy the capacity for personal thought, evaluation, and reflection. They catch the mind directly, giving people no time for calm, dialectical conversation with their own minds, with their friends, or with their books. The voices from the ether don’t permit the freedom-arousing mutuality of free conversation and discussion, and thus provoke greater passive acceptance — as in hypnosis.”

____Robert and the inner circle or hierarchy in the Fellowship replaced radio, television and all other authority and they became THE ONLY ACCEPTED DOCTRINE that we could listen to. Questioning them was like questioning the dictator; consciously or unconsciously I knew it meant a rupture and would have had to choose between being in the Fellowship or leaving it. So much of me continued to justify that I was in a Conscious School that nothing wanted to make that rupture a reality. Letting go of the dream was what took so long. That’s the beauty of the dream: it was more alive than all the obstacles it encountered until the inhumanity of the deal broke the contract. The fellowship falls apart but the ideal survives it.

31. nigel harris price - February 22, 2009

29 elena

A little aside…………..

“The imitation of Christ” – imitating the higher virtues of a noble, conscious being.

“The imitation of Burton” – imitating all the rotten-to-the-core ‘tricks’ that lead to being accepted by the ‘inner circle’of the FOF.

I’d love to hear some dialogue on this one…..Nigel.

32. brucelevy - February 22, 2009

20. Just the Facts Ma’am

“There are a large number of sex partners in the ‘inner circle’ of the Fellowship of Friends that are perfectly content with their circumstances and participate willingly, consenting, with full knowledge of their actions, and with glee. That is what they want from their life and accept it as normal.”

That’s often how it appears in “real time” but the actual “digestion” of the experience over time often yields a far different reaction and result. The above is an example, too often, of the bull shit that helps perpetuate the status quo, and justification. It’s very shallow and self serving reasoning.

33. fofblogmoderator - February 22, 2009

#29 is newly moderated

34. nigel harris price - February 22, 2009

32 brucelevy

Yes – about this ‘digestion bit’ over time, I think this happens to many who either stay in the FOF after ‘experiences’ like this or those who leave the FOF and have to ‘untangle’ what is, shall we say, virtuous and real in themselves from all the emotionally constricting crap that the FOF lays upon them. It actually took me 3 and 1/2 years after having left to have a glimpse of my essential possibilities beyond the guilt of being separated from the FOF cult. Part of it was in becoming angry at the way we were supposed to react to or act with ‘life people’. I sent very terse mailings to REB, GH and AG, as well as telephoning around the Renaissance ‘camp’. All I got back was a letter from AG (letterheaded, legal-wise) basically saying that I should seek professional medical help. “Stuff him!”. I was doing my ‘therapy’ when I contacted that lot. I just want recently-left ex-members to know that the joy with which they approached the idea of awakening in the FOF (and had it turned to misery) can be retrieved and exceeded with time and sincere seeking. And don’t believe that old crap from REB that C-Influence only stays within the bounds of the FOF…..Nigel.

35. ton - February 22, 2009

“unbind your mind….
there is no time….”

an intersting website:


36. Panorea - February 22, 2009

From Wikipedia on Depersonalization Disorder. Sounds Familiar?

Depersonalization disorder (DPD) is a dissociative disorder in which the sufferer is affected by persistent or recurrent feelings of depersonalization and/or derealization. The symptoms include a sense of automation, going through the motions of life but not experiencing it, feeling as though one is in a movie, feeling as though one is in a dream, feeling a disconnection from one’s body; out-of-body experience, a detachment from one’s body, environment and difficulty relating oneself to reality.

Occasional moments of depersonalization are normal;[1] persistent or recurrent feelings are not. A diagnosis of a disorder is made when the dissociation is persistent and interferes with the social and occupational functions necessary to everyday living. Most cases of depersonalization disorder are triggered by abuse, trauma, and drug use, although a variety of genetic and environmental factors are implicated. Depersonalization disorder can be conceptualized as a defense mechanism as the core symptoms of the disorder are thought to protect the victim from negative stimuli. Depersonalization disorder is often comorbid with anxiety disorders, panic disorders, clinical depression and/or bipolar disorder.

Although depersonalization disorder is an alteration in the subjective experience of reality, it is by no means related to psychosis as sufferers maintain the ability to distinguish between their own internal experiences and the objective reality of the outside world. Sufferers are able to distinguish between reality and fantasy, during episodic and continuous depersonalization, and do not represent a risk to society since their grasp on reality remains stable at all times.[2]


The core symptom of depersonalization disorder is the subjective experience of unreality, and as such there are no clinical signs. Common descriptions are: watching oneself from a distance; out-of-body experiences; a sense of just going through the motions; feeling as though one is in a dream or movie; not feeling in control of one’s speech or physical movements; and feeling detached from one’s own thoughts or emotions.[3] Individuals with the disorder commonly describe a feeling as though time is ‘passing’ them by and they are not in the notion of the present. These experiences may cause a person to feel uneasy or anxious since they strike at the core of a person’s identity and consciousness.

Some of the more common factors that exacerbate dissociative symptoms are negative effects, stress, subjective threatening social interaction, and unfamiliar environments. Factors that tend to diminish symptoms are comforting interpersonal interactions, intense physical or emotional stimulation, and relaxation.[4] Factors identified as relieving symptom severity such as diet, exercise, alcohol and fatigue, are listed by others as worsening symptoms.[5]

Fears of going crazy, brain damage, and losing control are common complaints. Individuals report occupational impairments as they feel they are working below their ability, and interpersonal troubles since they have an emotional disconnection from those they care about. Neuropsychological testing has shown deficits in attention, short-term memory and spatial-temporal reasoning.[6] Depersonalization disorder is associated with cognitive disruptions in early perceptual and attentional processes.[7]

37. Vena - February 23, 2009

From “A Friend” on page 65:
“What’s the story with Tatyana N?
The rumor goes that she was forced by her husband C. Noble this morning to a mental clinic in Marysville, as a consequence of her attendance to a teaching event yesterday at the Galleria.
She tried to call 911 for help but was unsuccessful.
Any ideas?”
There were no responses to this inquiry. Does anyone know what happened?

38. Panorea - February 23, 2009

I do hope someone who has been close to Tatyana will support her. I often thought I was getting crazy during events. I called twice the emergency after attending meetings with Robert and I received help. They mainly told me I was not having a heart attack and all the symptoms I had were stress, anxiety and panic related. And I was very lucky to have a good GP who paid attention.

The Fellowship of Friends is a very dangerous situation to be in. They do not know what they are talking about when they refer to methods for awakening. They are amateurs of the first kind and for people who are somehow sensitive to stress and pressure (not to mention mental disorders…), that place is a hell of a nightmare.

If you are still “in” make sure you pay attention to what your body and heart tells you. They do not lie.

39. dragon - February 23, 2009

38. Panorea

“They are amateurs of the first kind and for people who are somehow sensitive to stress and pressure (not to mention mental disorders…), that place is a hell of a nightmare.”

Everybody is sensitive to stress and pressure.

If the FOF would be a “Health Institution” or willing to support its students it would have given introduction meetings for his students to overcome anxiety, panic, stress…

But if you are able to overcome anxiety you will start questioning and that’s the END for the FOF!

The FOF a kind of trap for those who are addicted to money, luxury….and the fear to loose all that suggar candy.

Questioning is a major form of human thought and interpersonal communication. But some people are more equal than others and they don’t accept your questioning. Time to start wondering!

I am sure all people in the FOF know “Animal Farm”.

The FOF is another ANIMAL FARM (with a pseudo religious touch).

40. Someone - February 23, 2009

38. Panorea

Though I left and I have my criticism, Apollo/Isis/Renaissance has been a wonderful place for me. I lost many good friends and I do miss them. I have never, ever felt being abused or mistreated.
I liked the fine energy in events and I think RB is a genuine teacher.

The main reason why I left was because I was not able to cope with the new teaching direction, especially with the renouncement of the psychological part of the teaching. I think it has created a big whole in the ability to obtain self-knowledge and has strengthened weaker parts in people, bringing more tramp and more lack of controlling mechanical behavior than before.

You say: “The Fellowship of Friends is a very dangerous situation to be in.” I do not think so. Apollo is one of the finest places in the world with wonderful people, only it became a non-inspiring place for me.

I know there is a group of ex-students in this forum who are forcibly trying to dictate an extreme battle against the FOF, no matter what.

The FOF has ‘rightly gained’ some of the criticism it receives, yet in reality there are hundreds of posts here against the FOF that are deliberately misleading and are full of lies and extreme exaggerations.

I am not writing here to defend the FOF, I am writing here to bring a more balanced opinion.

I guess those who are about to bring up RB buttocks again will start popping-up now.

41. brucelevy - February 23, 2009

40. Someone

“yet in reality there are hundreds of posts here against the FOF that are deliberately misleading and are full of lies and extreme exaggerations.”

And once again, you certainly have the right to feel this way, and to state whatever you believe. But the above statement, for me, shows the possibility of several things: Either you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, or your perception and apprehension of what goes on there shows a profound lack of depth and understanding, or you’re a liar- possibly to others , but surely to yourself.

The “facts” do not lie. The law suits did not lie. The mental anguish, several suicides, history of abuse…do not lie. These are not exaggerations. Your excuses for leaving, along with your defense of the FOF based on loss of friends rings false.

“Though I left and I have my criticism, Apollo/Isis/Renaissance has been a wonderful place for me. I lost many good friends and I do miss them. I have never, ever felt being abused or mistreated.
I liked the fine energy in events and I think RB is a genuine teacher.”

Are you a pretty, naive boy, with no real sense of self willing to get fucked and then piss on “your teacher”? Or are you a wealthy, intelligent middle aged person with standing and position in the “life” community ( a money machine as RB would see you)? If you aren’t either of these two, you meant and mean absolutely nothing to the FOF beyong cannon fodder. Your “friends” were not your friends. Were you actually asked to leave for financial reasons and seeking to re-ingratiate yourself to the cult for re-entry?

None of what you have stated above, and in previous posts rings true. If you really believe and feel what you’ve stated then I think you’re no worse off than you were before you joined. Which I guess is a plus, but not too intelligent or self cognizant.

42. Panorea - February 23, 2009


I have to say that I totally disagree with you. My experiences were quite different. The place is fine in its appearance but there is something seriously rotten in the “state of Denmark”.

I guess some people will get a bit upset with you…But that’s part of the game again. You see, many fine people were seriously abused by whom you call a “genuine teacher.”

At the same time, I am glad you express your opinion here.

43. X-ray - February 23, 2009

“40. Someone
“yet in reality there are hundreds of posts here against the FOF that are deliberately misleading and are full of lies and extreme exaggerations.”

A good example of an asshole.

44. Jomo Piñata - February 23, 2009


What, specifically, do you find to be “deliberately misleading, full of lies and extreme exaggerations”? You must have something in mind. Please tell us what. Then we will be able to evaluate what you are saying.

45. Jomo Piñata - February 23, 2009

Also, if you are specific, *you* will be able to evaluate what you are saying.

Sometimes people hear things that seem so incredible that they don’t really take them in, they just put a label on them, like “lies” or “extreme exaggerations.” In that instance they just have a vague “sense” that something is a lie, or an exaggeration. Focusing on the information can help you tell whether your processing of information was short-circuited in this way.

On the basis of what you wrote, I can’t tell whether you have heard credible information that seemed too extreme to be believed, which you rejected without actually taking it in, or whether you have particularized personal knowledge that some specific allegation made in this forum is actually false.

46. Yesri Baba - February 23, 2009

“I guess those who are about to bring up RB buttocks again will start popping-up now.”

At least that much is true.

47. 411 - February 23, 2009

Hey Someone-

Did you ever work in the kitchen at Robert’s house? It was the most ridiculous space for what Burton was trying to accommodate. The minute he upped the attendance numbers for the dinners from 15 to 50 he should have increased the size of the kitchen. Why am I harping on such an insignificant thing as the size of the kitchen? Here’s why; most people still in the FOF would say “oh, what an excellent environment to separate from negative “I’s”. Robert has probably left the kitchen so small so he can help with the evolution of the kitchen staff.” Yet has Burton down-sized anything in his personal life? Hell no! Has he ever deprived himself of anything?? Again the answer is no. This crazy bastard used to eat up such a storm that his “holy consciousness” was about 300 pounds. Everybody remembers when Robert was fat. It was only because some poor over-weight person dropped dead in front of him while on some excursion (or so the story goes) that he “woke up” to the fact that he was fat and he proceeded to lose substantial weight.

Conscious being? I don’t think so.

That’s just one small example of the inconsistencies and the perverted psychology that is employed by the members and their leader.

Anybody can plant roses and palm trees and oranges. That “finer” energy you were receiving was probably your imagination in overdrive.

48. in2it - February 23, 2009

Someone, one of the key sentences in your post is: “I have never, ever felt being abused or mistreated.”

Honestly, neither was I…. mostly deceived, misled, and manipulated by someone with malevolent intentions, and — for many years — I was not smart enough and thoughtful enough to acknowledge this and take action… i.e., listen to what people were telling me about Burton, and then leave the cult and stop supporting him.

However, the fact that I personally wasn’t abused or mistreated didn’t (and doesn’t) keep me from being concerned about the thousands of people who have been abused and mistreated — as well as being concerned that I supported that abuse and mistreatment for a long time — some of it knowingly and some of it without knowing.

Also, there’s something else about this… With time, I’m finding that I actually was — on some level, as they say — abused and mistreated much more than I’m willing to acknowledge. Yes, it’s good to get past the attitude that “I’m a victim.” But blatant denial on my part only delayed that process.

Someone, I took a look at some of your posts on the previous page. If you want people to “move on” the best road to that is to acquire some information about the FOF. If you’re truly a former member with some criticisms of the FOF, as you say, then that’s good. But just keep listening. It does sometimes take a while for this to sink in.

49. Panorea - February 23, 2009

411…This crazy bastard used to eat up such a storm that his “holy consciousness” was about 300 pounds. Everybody remembers when Robert was fat. It was only because some poor over-weight person dropped dead in front of him while on some excursion (or so the story goes) that he “woke up” to the fact that he was fat and he proceeded to lose substantial weight…

I remember when I joined the Cult, “students” were asked to hand in all the photographs they had with Robert. He did not want the future generations of his home-made ark to face their man number 7,8 in such a state.

Along the same lines in a complete “associative thinking” mood: Did you know that all your thank you notes and cards to the “Teacher” are kept in a file at the Galleria? He also wants to show to the humans after us (the ones who will survive his predictions…) how loved a teacher he was…YOUR voluntary donation has been used already…Sorry…

Are we talking about Conscious beings here?

50. in2it - February 23, 2009

Burton went through a phase many years ago where followers had the dubious honor of paying large sums of $$$ to have their pictures taken with him. Maybe he’s still doing that, but haven’t heard.

Apart from the money it pulled in, my guess is that he saves or saved those photos as some sort of evidence in the event of being sued. Combining that with all of the “heartfelt” thank-you notes and Happy New Year greetings with Greek quotations that he’s saved — it gives someone the sense that everything looks fine in the FOF. — i.e., “Look how chummy we were. I would never do anything to hurt that person.”

Still, I doubt it will do any good for him in court. Many divorced couples also have wonderful wedding and anniversary photos, and of course that doesn’t prove the lack of physical abuse and so on.

51. Jomo Piñata - February 23, 2009

Maybe he just needs the photos and notes to remind him what a truly wonderful person he is. I mean, everyone says so, right? So it must be true!

52. elena - February 23, 2009

Wonderful place
where no one says no
but yes,
more boys,
more auctions
more prospective conscious beings
for the glory of presence.

Dear God Mr. Burton, divine man number eight,
who sits at the throne of every encounter and dictates what thoughts,
what words and what movements each one of us is allowed to live.
No sex, no games my darlings.
No ludic, no magic but intentionality at all times.

Wonderful place:
all aim
all effort
No hope.
Your will will devour your lust, your joy, your tenderness and all song

Too young,
too old,
too rich
too poor
try more.

I here offer my soul
my body
my mind
and spirit
so that you can stop me from talking
from moving,
from thinking
and being.
All my sins.

All is yours my great guru Mr. Burton,
all for your use and abuse
because I am worth nothing better
than what you can make of me.

I sacrifice everything I have been
because nothing I was before the Fellowship
is of any value.

My family is only biological
I throw away my children, my parents my brother and sister,
none are of any value to the Arc,
all life people are sleeping machines
and I am a worthless human who should not have opinions
think or speak.

Everything I make is yours
Everything I do is for your glory
everything I want I sacrifice on your name
for the glory of presence.

Wonderful place
where we will gladly die
long before we are dead.

A man must die before he can live
and we are all dying willingly at your feet.

53. Spoonful Blues - February 23, 2009

Someone – 40

What is your point? You say absolutely nothing as each sentence is contradicted by the next. You believe the Fellowship of Friends to be the best place in the world, yet you felt you had to leave as you found it had become uninspiring. You think Robert Burton is a genuine teacher, but you felt unhappy with the new teaching direction.
Perhaps this is what you call a balanced opinion. But Yyou are making me very dizzy!

54. tatyana - February 24, 2009

I would like to post a letter from my friend in relation to dangers in Fellowship of friends and sex abuse.

“One of my best friends in London was the Centre Director. He was sweet, an old pal of Burton’s. He had many characteristics that could prove useful in the work – loyalty, consistency etc.. – but I later learned that he had been thrown out of the U.S for being a registered child sex offender, and failing to admit that when he moved to a new township… It became obvious that little had changed in London, and that he had no way of ‘negotiating’ with the problem or addressing it, although he had numerous clever lies about it. Just like RB. Burton actually told him that a time was coming when his desires would be legalised.

I feel he is a good ‘test-case’ for the fellowship, in the sense that he’s example of how a lot can seem very right, while something crucial and half-buried is very wrong. This isn’t morality, it’s just what screams at you as a human being…

It took me a while to see just how single-minded he was. He pursued a Ukrainian lady in London, about half his age, with a daughter of about 10 or 11 years old. At one point he revealed to me that he was pursuing the mother in order to get closer to the daughter. I wrote it off as a joke at the time, but I don’t think it was. I recall rooming with him on one trip to Egypt, and I showed him a picture of my daughter. He made some crude sexual reference and there was a weird atmosphere after he said it. I understood that he didn’t know how to stop himself, or even if it was desirable to do so. After all, if you have a supposedly higher man telling you that one day your desires will be legal, and indulging in much the same kind of strangeness himself, you’ll stick with him, right?

I am certain you are correct to say that they simply don’t understand that they are doing any wrong. Whatever ‘work’ it is they’re doing, it is the sort that doesn’t see these uses of sex energy as aberrant. There is definitely something missing. This is where having children actually helps. In my experience, once you’ve had a child and brought him/her up over a period of time, it puts relationships, and particularly sex, into a very different context.

But ‘men’ (or rather mutations) like … and Burton will go on repeating the same old tired routines until the end of their lives. I guess you could say that their ‘lower selves’ are in full control. Very dangerous, and I wouldn’t have anything to do with anyone touched by the same spirit, because I know it would encourage the same in me….”

55. Wikifof - February 24, 2009


Can you allow embedding on the live video site so the video can be added to the fof wiki site? You may also want to join the wiki site as an editor.


56. andrew - February 24, 2009

can any one tell me why anyone would join this cult. It just seems like a bunch of weak minded people that want to be abused.

57. The FOFion - February 24, 2009

FOF’s Newly Issued Membership Cards Stolen; Hackers Penetrate Security Systems

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Calling it one of the worst security disasters in Fellowhip of Friends history, Security Chief Antonio Buttheadia announced Monday that several newly issued membership cards were stolen from the Galleria earlier this month.

“Not good,” Buttheadia said in a written statement.

The cards enabled several Life People to march into the Galleria without detection during one of Robert Burton’s staged events (often referred to as “meetings” in the FOF).

“They just walked in, and we really had no way of knowing who were members and who weren’t,” Buttheadia said. “Some of them stood up and asked Burton if it’s true that he’s had sex with thousands of his followers. That one brought some gasps from the audience.”

An impromptu showing of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was also displayed on the ceiling. No one is quite sure how the intruders were able to pull off such a stunt.

“It must be a new technology,” Buttheadia said while trying to cover his ass. “Apparently it was being projected from someone’s iPhone. By the time we figured out who was doing it, the entire 13-minute film was completed. Very clever.”

But that’s not the half of it. Hackers also diverted almost all of the FOF’s money into an unknown overseas account. So, with no funds left to pay the bills, collection agencies have retrieved several items in Burton’s possession — including countless pairs of $85 socks.

“The collectors took his cars, his clothes, cleaned out his bank accounts, changed the locks on Galleria, transplanted several palm trees back to Southern California where they belong, drained the swimming pool and hot tub, and loaded up their vans with boxes and boxes of wine and olive oil.”

Buttheadia says he has assured Burton the crisis is “under control.”

Despite the severity of the situation, Buttheadia said it may not be the worst security disaster in the history of the FOF: “The worst? That may have been when a tornado took the roof and two of the walls off Burton’s bedroom just before a meeting. That was bad timing.”

58. fofblogmoderator - February 24, 2009

#56 is newly moderated

59. Jomo Piñata - February 24, 2009


They don’t know it’s a cult when they join. Essential information is concealed, leading to a misleading impression. And there are many layers of deception and concealment committed by people who are themselves deceived and have had things concealed from them.

Bottom line is, if they knew the truth, they would never have joined.

60. WhaleRider - February 24, 2009

The FOFion:
Keep up the good work. You are awesome!

I am making some updates in order to post on youtube in smaller segments for the dial-up crowd and would rather link the next version to the wiki site. I’d love to join as a wiki editor. Send and email to nongurus@yahoo.com with the info and they will forward to me. You have created a fantastic resource of which I will avail myself for the project. Thanks a million.

See you in July, if not sooner.

Welcome back.

Thanks to all for your input about the video. There’s more on the way and much more of the story to be told. The sheik has agreed to a phone interview, too.

Small strokes fell great oaks.
~Benjamin Franklin

61. fofblogmoderator - February 24, 2009

It seems Pavel (The Sheik) created a page last May that has basically been dormant ever since. There was one post by Jomo in December and then somehow our new poster “Andrew” posted there. I am unable to manage that page. I cannot start a new page when it gets full. I have copied the latest posts from there to here and I have shut that page down.

Has anyone who has a mind that they can still use, tell me what happened to your kids while you were in this cult?

Yes, Andrew, I can. I joined the Fellowship in 1978 before I had children. I married in 1979; I had my first child in 1982. I did not live in Oregon House and I was able to make life “normal” for my children until 1991 when my husband insisted that we move to the heart of the school, Oregon House. I enrolled my children, then 5 and 8 years old into the Fellowship supported school, Lewis Carroll School. It was a nightmare for my 8 year old son. Other boys were bullying him. When I addressed this with his teacher she blew it off. One of the boys doing the bullying was the son of one of Robert’s “favorites”. When my son came home at 9 years old telling me he wanted to kill himself I put him in public school. I was called a traitor to C Influence by Robert Burton. I stayed in the Fellowship for another 2 years until I learned first hand the story of Troy B. I also was witness to the neglect of children by their parents in Oregon House. I will leave those stories for another time.

62. in2it - February 24, 2009

andrew, 56. Extremely fair question. And “weak minded” is a fair assessment. (I don’t know about the “want to be abused” part.)

But, Jomo Pinata, your answer explains part of the mechanism that keeps people trapped in the cult. But I would take a close look at your answer: “They don’t know it’s a cult when they join.”


To many people, it’s rather obvious from the beginning. The question is why it wasn’t so obvious to us. I think that’s partly what andrew is asking. This notion that we didn’t know it’s a cult when we joined — it’s the same thinking that disallowed us from seeing it was a cult many years later, and many more years later, and many more years later.

Water under the bridge for those of us who have left. But andrew’s question brings up another point — that there are no real logical answers to why we joined, and why we stayed. It’s a form of insanity — both on the part of Burton, and on our part.

63. X-ray - February 24, 2009


There is enough material here to file for a class action lawsuit.

64. Someone - February 24, 2009

48. in2it

Yours “keep me from being concerned about the thousands of people who have been abused and mistreated ”

Thousands of people abused? give me a break.

65. Panorea - February 24, 2009


I find it difficult to follow your logic. You might need to add a little bit more to your short posts. What is it that you do not understand?

Do you want to get into a discussion about the numbers here? Shall I suggest that even if there was only ONE person who was abused by the “conscious being” of the Fellowship of Friends, that in itself would have been enough?

What is the point you are trying to make (my apologies if I missed it in one of your previous posts)?

66. Panorea - February 24, 2009

56. andrew – February 24, 2009

can any one tell me why anyone would join this cult. It just seems like a bunch of weak minded people that want to be abused.

You are absolutely right here Andrew. I do not know where you are coming from, but I have to say that I was a weak-minded person (and I am still probably), with not so high self-esteem and I was in search of a better way to understand life and myself. I did not want to get abused (and abuse is a very broad term…so in a way I did not get abused in the Fellowship), and I did not know I was joining a Cult. I was told that this was a group of people who were working on becoming more aware of themselves with the help of various exercises and under the guidance of someone who had achieved a higher level of consciousness. The more time I spent in the Fellowship the more lies I discovered. But yes, you are right, I would not call myself a strong individual when I joined (just a 21 year old who thought she was doing the right thing…)

67. in2it - February 24, 2009

someone, 64: “Thousands of people abused? give me a break.”

Apparently “give me a break” means you disagree, and that something I wrote shows lack of intelligence in your opinion.

But in the meantime, following Burton and believing what he tells you shows your intelligence?

I use the word abuse when a so-called spiritual leader manipulates thousands of men into having sex with him. What do you call it?

68. in2it - February 24, 2009

Panorea: I do see your answer, and Jomo Pinata’s, as valid — that people didn’t know, and don’t know, they’re joining a cult. That’s part of the deception. The true nature of the FOF is misrepresented — countless details are hidden from people, and so on.

Still, why is it that some people can see through the lies, and others can’t? (e.g., the many who shake their heads in amazement and leave their first prospective student meeting never to return, or never make the phone call in the first place). As you wrote, I don’t know Andrew or exactly where he’s coming from in his post above, but his question does touch on some things about the attitudes of former cult members, and the attitudes that keep people in cults — and how those attitudes are perhaps related to the same attitudes that allowed us to join.

There’s a tendency to keep justifying, keep justifying, keep justifying, keep justifying…

It’s true in this cult. It’s true with other cults. “I had such wonderful experiences. We believed we were doing something very special. We didn’t know. I have no regrets.”

If we can’t rid ourselves of these attitudes after leaving, I sense there’s a lot less hope for some of our friends still self-imprisoned.

69. Jomo Piñata - February 24, 2009

Most people don’t realize that other people, using specific and identifiable techniques, can interfere with their ability to think critically.

If I can persuade you that thoughts of a critical nature will interfere with your quest for higher states, and that if thoughts of a critical nature arise, it’s a signal to intensify your effort to “separate from the I’s,” then you will enter a dissociative state instead of thinking critically about the sparse contradictory information you have.

With critical thinking paralyzed, it’s only a matter of time before you start to believe all kinds of weird bat-shit-crazy ideas. Like the idea that angels are communicating with you using numbers on restaurant receipts.

70. elena - February 24, 2009

22 Anna, thank you.

64. Someone – February 24, 2009
Thousands of people abused? give me a break.
Your position is fair if you know where it is coming from. Many, thousands of people did not feel abused by the Fellowship. It was in many ways not very different to what they had experienced in regular society. When you look at it from that point of you, it makes sense. Some of us here look at it from the point of view of what it said it was: The Only Conscious School on Planet Earth with the Only Conscious Teacher. Did you never believe that? Why did you stay in a place in which you knew the Teacher was lying? How many other lies did you take for granted?

Your position is also fair in the fact that many, hundreds of members had what they thought was enough common sense to work with the System and not get involved in the “politics” of the Fellowship. They stayed away in centers or in Oregon House but didn’t go to meetings or find out what was going on there. They had their own life, jobs and family to take care of and used the Fellowship as an inspiration to a better aim. These members were the ideal Fellowship member who paid and did not ask or tell but minded their own business and took care of their own work as best as they could.

The difficulty comes when you take a look at the members that got involved with the Fellowship in a deep way not only because they wanted to find a job to live in the United States but because as Robert had instructed, the closer you were to the heart of the “School”, the more you’d have to work and some of us sincerely wanted to work and believed in the Arc and a conscious community of people working on themselves for a better world. Those who gave everything up to live in Oregon House and those who kept less committed in outside centers are very different: less committed to the Fellowship but more committed perhaps to their own work. The latter were less harmed for sure but the position they took is not about the Fellowship of Friends but about them selves. From one angle they were stronger, from another, weaker. I am not concerned about those who were stronger to protect themselves from the Fellowship because they were weaker to get involved deeply in it, it’s the weaker ones that committed with everything they had that I’ve been talking about and most of those are still members. They work as a group to deceive new members without even needing to plan it. They sincerely believe they are doing the right thing.

Your position is also fair if you only take into account abuse as those extreme situations in which people were manipulated to have sex with Robert against their will but what many of us here take for abuse are:
Robert Burton’s intervention in:
The capacity of every individual to decide what is better for his community.
To understand where the abuses are you need to have a clear definition between what is the school and what the community of the Fellowship of Friends, because Robert and the inner circle have stood on the premise that Robert can demand anything from the members because he is the Teacher of a conscious school but the reality of the situation is that he is also the dictator of a community that has had to submit to each and all his whims and support not the community but the cult. You must understand where to draw the line between the School or Cult and the community that is being abused to sustain it. Within the Cult, all of Robert’s and other inner circle members are protected in their abuse but as members of a human community of people who are living under very questionable conditions, every act by Robert is a blatant abuse of the economic and cultural development of the community involved. As we all know, the only thing we ever did was raise money for Robert and for our right to silently walk around in his gardens, go to a few concerts and sincerely try to value the beautiful effort that hundreds of members were doing to make things work.
It is very easy to be deceived by the facts that apparently money is invested in concerts and ballets and for some members who had never had a taste of culture, many of the activities that go on in the Fellowship have stimulated them to look out of themselves into the pseudo- culture of the Fellowship but culture is not the imposed lollipops that Robert designs to deceive the members with, culture is born in the struggle of free individuals to design their own lives not in the imposed behavior of a cult leader. Related to this you would also have to distinguish between a teacher giving tools for awakening and a teacher imposing a submissive behavior to an indiscriminate number of people with whom he has no real contact, which is what really happens in the Fellowship cult.

I thank you for being so brave as to stand by what you believe and being willing to discuss it. Don’t get mad at people, keep pointing at what you would like us to look at. You’ll widen all our perspectives.

71. elena - February 24, 2009

Correction: It is very easy to be deceived by the facts that apparently money is invested in concerts and ballets and for some members who had never had a taste of culture,

This is not accurate. Everyone in the Fellowship had been connected with a lot more culture out of the Fellowship than they were ever inside. Culture is not only Art, Art is possible in a culture of free people and that is what is not possible in the Fellowship which is why Robert must impose it and use Art to deceive members into thinking that it truly is a conscious school. It is interesting that we come to understand a lot of things after seeing them so badly misused.

72. brucelevy - February 24, 2009

someone, 64:

“Thousands of people abused? give me a break.”

Actually, I sorta kinda agree. I think looking at the differing intensity of RB’s perversions over the years from beginning to end (and only speaking of the sexual abuse) I think it’s more likely to be “hundreds” rather than thousands.

But that’s like the field trip some adults took to the astrophysicist. The astrophysicist told the crowd “According to my calculations, a comet will hit and destroy the Earth in 30,000 years.” A hysterical woman in the back cried out “What, what did you say?” He said again “Thirty thousand years.” The woman said “Oh my God, phewww…..I thought you said three thousand years.”

73. dragon - February 24, 2009

Plausibility test:

Where are just ten or three (of hundreds?) Ex FOF members (gender male), who are willing to post here:

Yes, having sex with REB was a pleasure to me!

It was no duty, I did it absolutely voluntarily and it filled me with joy!

For years to come it helped me to develop independence, personal responsibility and joie de vivre.

All my friends (inside and outside the FOF) were delighted and inspired by that joy.

REB is an unusually gifted teacher, he teaches far beyond all belief and he is a relief to all people who have the chance to establish contact with him.

74. andrea - February 24, 2009

Dragon, hopefully you’re kidding….
If you’re not, you just joined the selected (thousand people) group of people that enjoyed having sex with their teacher. The disciples of Jim Jones and David Koresh were quite happy to share their bodies with them. Matter of fact more things are in common with those two. Both had an apocalyptic prophesy up their sleeves, they were paranoid of outsiders, and were obviously connected with higher forces.
Keep up the good work! One day you can tell your grandchildren that you were happily sodomized by your teacher!

75. veramente - February 24, 2009

Someone 40

hello Someone, you sound like you are having second thoughts about the FOF. Maybe in your mind you want to keep both seats for your own reasons.
It’s hard to leave friends behind and even your whole life.
But try at least to not lie at yourself by sugar coating your experience in the FOF.
Was it you who was posting the Call of the Loon a few pages back? Are you changing your mind now by declaring RB is a fine teacher? Do you really condone everything he does and did in the past?

Maybe I am all wrong and am reading you all wrong, in which case I apologize in advance if that is so.

76. tatyana - February 24, 2009

Andrea you did not understand Dragon. He was not in FOF to begin with.

there are people like that. I know a few who say sincerely that being close to Robert was the most beautiful, powerful, wonderful and important part of their life and it made more conscious and better people of them. They also say that they would gladly encourage their own children to be with Robert. They would not write it here because they don’t read the blog.

77. andrea - February 24, 2009

Tatyana, maybe you didn’t understand me.
Doesn’t matter if he was in the fof or not. He’s a sick man, so are the people you’re talking about. It’s called denial. Very, very sad.

78. WhaleRider - February 24, 2009


Hard to swallow? That’s the gag reflex. There’s hope for you.

79. Opus 111 - February 24, 2009


I too do not think you understood where Dragon was coming from.

My read is as follows

If the tales of REB sexually abusing hundreds if not thousands of men is indeed an exaggeration if not an outright lie, then let ten or even three come forth and say:

“Yes, having sex with Burton was a pleasure for me.

It was no duty, I did it absolutely voluntarily and it filled me with joy!

For years to come it helped me to develop independence, personal responsibility and joie de vivre…

….. etc, etc….”

Then, may be we can give serious consideration to the objection brought up by Someone.

Those who claim so, in the way Tatyana related above, can only do so to survive mentally and often materialistically (physically?) their ongoing fate, having probably buried deep the pain and self-loathing.

80. andrea - February 24, 2009

Got it now! Thanks.
There are actually many that say such things and they believe it too.
That’s why is so sad. Of course they are not going to say it here.
Why would they?

81. dragon - February 24, 2009

74. andrea

What else could it be?

Kidding! Black humour kidding!

We are having carnival here!

I am captain black beard! Sure?

And please andrea, if you are judging somebody you possibly will have to face a surprise.

I am quoting now brucelevy with his wonderful creation “douche bag”.

If I read tatyana’s post; “They also say that they would gladly encourage their own children to be with Robert.”, I am spontaneously using the douche bag to puke up.

But andrea, be sure I know what religious cults and sects are producing:

Distress, despair and exhaustion nothing else and there is not one jota to find something positive concerning REB/the FOF cult and his sinister wheeling and dealing!

Bad enough, but I think it is the truth.

82. dragon - February 24, 2009

79. Opus 111

You got it!

And I would really like to turn the tables.

Why should the abused victims outside the FOF always give evidence.

OK the FOF doesn’t work as a missionary but I could not read something here what invalidated the stories of the victims and the witnesses.

And the FOF was not able to stop the Blog, his daily accusation!

83. elena - February 24, 2009

63. X-ray – February 24, 2009

There is enough material here to file for a class action lawsuit.

Thank you for that information. If you’re willing to expand on it here it would be welcome. If anyone is willing to take names of those willing to support that action morally and/or economically and at least explore what it would take, please count me in. My e-mail is ludotekaatsucceed.net, if any private correspondence is necessary to move that forward.

76. tatyana – February 24, 2009

79. Opus 111 – February 24, 2009

Those who claim so, in the way Tatyana related above, can only do so to survive mentally and often materialistically (physically?) their ongoing fate, having probably buried deep the pain and self-loathing.

Tatyana’s statement is true, this is why the Fellowship has become an institutionalized mechanism meant to supply Robert with boys. Shortly before I left even mothers would express an attitude of willingness to offer their children to Robert as an honor for the boy-man to be chosen. It was expressed theoretically by women who didn’t even have children. If you are convinced that Robert is the only conscious being on earth and an Angel, why would you think it an aberration for your son or any other man to be exposed to Robert’s sexual practices? Once the cancer has turned the group’s psychology around, anything established by Robert is accepted as a necessary evil or a necessary good.

Another way members justify it is by saying that Robert’s homosexuality is the way C-influence tests the members.

Thank you Wilz, this is worth reposting because there were MILLIONS, not just thousands of abuses like this one on the community of the Fellowship justified by the demands of the Cult:

Yes, Andrew, I can. I joined the Fellowship in 1978 before I had children. I married in 1979; I had my first child in 1982. I did not live in Oregon House and I was able to make life “normal” for my children until 1991 when my husband insisted that we move to the heart of the school, Oregon House. I enrolled my children, then 5 and 8 years old into the Fellowship supported school, Lewis Carroll School. It was a nightmare for my 8 year old son. Other boys were bullying him. When I addressed this with his teacher she blew it off. One of the boys doing the bullying was the son of one of Robert’s “favorites”. When my son came home at 9 years old telling me he wanted to kill himself I put him in public school. I was called a traitor to C Influence by Robert Burton. I stayed in the Fellowship for another 2 years until I learned first hand the story of Troy B. I also was witness to the neglect of children by their parents in Oregon House. I will leave those stories for another time.

84. Panorea - February 24, 2009

There are still people in the Fellowship who see Robert’s sexual abuses as a possible way to reach higher centers and accelerate one’s evolution.

85. Anna - February 24, 2009

Dear Someone,

For me your statement that “there are hundreds of posts here against the FOF that are deliberately misleading and are full of lies and extreme exaggerations.” was painful and shocking to me.

Since you didn’t specify who’s statements you refer to I can assume you meant mine as well.

When I first posted on this blog I did so with a lot of trepidation. I was afraid that I would be threatened if I reported some of the things that had happened to me and my friends. I decided that it would be better to use my real name because that would bring more credibility to what I was saying. More current members might believe what was being said if they could put a face to it. But it was really scary… I did it with reluctance, my heart raced and my hands shook.

Recently I forced myself to start writing again, out of a sense of duty. It is not easy. But it feels important that current members who are open enough to read the blog should be given the chance to read the truth.

The things that I have stated are the simple truth. If something is horrible it does not mean that it is a lie, or an exaggeration.

Your accusing me of lying is exactly what every witness dreads. They dread that what they have finally revealed will will not be believed, that what they or their loved ones have endured will be denied. That people will try to discredit them.

I believe I speak for many writers here.

Your sweeping statement hurt. It wouldn’t have been so bad if you were still a member. I know how blindly I used to defend my dream. But you are not, at least that’s what you say.


86. sharon - February 24, 2009

Anna, without defending Someone, I think it is hard for someone who spent much of their adult life in FoF to admit that it could have been so ugly. Maybe even impossible for some without severe emotional distress.

87. sharon - February 24, 2009

— and Anna, thank you for saying that Someone’s statement hurt. That was a very honest post.

88. brucelevy - February 24, 2009

Someone’s statements clearly and thoroughly come from a place of either total ignorance, total denial or total dishonesty. I see no other plausible possibilities for making her claims.

89. andrea - February 24, 2009

jajajaja, Dragon I was wrong, sorry.
What’s up with the name tough? Are you a Bruce Lee fan?

90. Panorea - February 24, 2009


there have been many who spent most of their entire life in the FOF and their only way to continue is to actually admit it was that ugly.

That’s what many are trying to do here.

91. Panorea - February 24, 2009

meant “adult life”…

…time to go to bed

92. Yesri Baba - February 24, 2009


“It depends on what your definition of is is”

Bill Clinton

It depends on what your definition of abuse is.

I’ve heard tell of physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, mental abuse.
What about a category called ‘spiritual’ abuse, defined so:
Action taken which increase bondage, ignorance and delusion.
‘Spiritual’ abuser: One who promotes bondage, ignorance and delusion and bends them to ones own benefit.
Since every Practice of the Fellowship of Friends leads in exactly the opposite direction of liberation and wisdom anyone who ever put pen to check was abused by Robert Burton. The question then becomes, in how many categories was one abused.

This isn’t totally bad. I can think of a couple of positives. One is that any good education consists, in part learning what is error and false. The second is even better. It is a barometer of the distance and freedom from abuse. The more you are outraged and angered at the waste of time and money and trust the closer you are to understanding the truth and liberation. If you feel you weren’t abused you are still being abused.

“Give me a break”

There you go, use it well.

93. nigel harris price - February 24, 2009

“Where there are arguments, there are idiots” – G I Gurdjieff…..Nigel.

94. Someone - February 24, 2009

I know many of you personally. Most of you are moderate and honest, yet I know for a fact that some of you are deliberately lying.

For example, all the accusations claiming that there were suicides related in any way to FOF actions are deliberate and malicious lies.

That does not mean the FOF and RB are not to be criticized.

I have been there for many many years, and there were periods in which I was very active, and on & off I had and “important” role and I was in some ways close to RB (not sexually).

RB is an amazing teacher. He taught me so much and I am grateful for that.

I wasn’t able to go on after the sharp turn the teaching took, because the school has turned to be a religion and ceased to be a 4th way school.

Still what I gained in the school is real and of great value for me. I do not know if I could have gained so mush elsewhere, maybe I could and maybe not.

I do not inner consider those here who are blunt and intolerant to more moderate point of views related to the FOF. That’s mere power and it does not intimidate me.

95. Jomo Piñata - February 24, 2009


For example, all the accusations claiming that there were suicides related in any way to FOF actions are deliberate and malicious lies.

1. Lore Fisher-Smith
2. Brian Sisler
3. Kevin Kelly


96. brucelevy - February 24, 2009

Kimo Beech”

97. brucelevy - February 24, 2009

94. Someone

Great teacher? Deliberate and malicious lies?
Many years in the school. Close to the teacher. Taught me so much.

As you no doubt know we can’t see ourselves too well, so take it from me madam, you are seriously deluded, you’re head is in the sand (as well as one other place) and you are the quintessential sheep. Aside from not being a mindless pretty boy, which you obviously are not, you are exactly the kind of follower the FOF revels in, until you are of no further use. I’m so glad it changed your life.

98. brucelevy - February 24, 2009

94. Someone

The “schools” is supposed to help one recognize “lies” one tells others and themselves. And also not to speak of things they know nothing about (suicides, sexual exploitation, spiritual exploitation), yet here you are spouting pure horse shit with impunity. They also didn’t teach you shame and honest self evaluation. You’re no different than you were many pages ago under a different name, you sing the same song over and over. Is it for “us” or “you”.

99. dragon - February 24, 2009

89. andrea

Bruce Lee, a great actor!

Here be dragons:


A nice Film by Brian Dunning.

More often than somebody has had hot dinners I am a critical “here be dragons” dragon!

You don’t have to believe him (Brian D.) everything!

You can also watch the video in German language!

Are you in the USA or in Europe?

Have a very nice day/evening wherever you are!

100. nigel harris price - February 24, 2009

Failed suicide, 11 June 1989 (K—n B——-k “C-Influence saved your life”) due to being indoctrinated into believing that “losing the school (in my case, financially) would lose one immortality”…..Nigel.

101. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009
102. sharon - February 25, 2009

Panorea 90 – I agree.

103. andrew - February 25, 2009

So I need all of your help my ex is planning on going to apollo with my 12 year old daughter. I am afraid how do I stop them

104. sharon - February 25, 2009

Someone – I think it is pretty narrow-minded of you to call “deliberate and malicious lies”, statements that you don’t agree with. Remember, we, in FoF, were trained not to ask questions and to accept without demur whatever official line we were given.

Did you personally investigate KK’s suicide? BS’s suicide? Are you in a position to know what their experiences with RB were (in BS’s case) or how depressed they might have become due to following their ‘teacher’s will’, and how that might have influenced them? Do you have privileged information about any of this? A couple of years ago a non-member friend called Fellowship members “the most uncurious people he had ever seen” – it hit home.

If you do not know more than others, it is pretty weird for you to call others’ statements “deliberate and malicious lies”. I think you’d need to back that up with some pretty concrete information. Otherwise it just seems like classic defensiveness, buffering, denial, or maybe just a refusal to think critically.

105. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009

“Do not try to save anybody here who tries to commit suicide. They shouldn’t be here. And they will strangle you just as some drowning people drown someone who tries to save them.”

Robert Burton, Via Del Sol Journal, October 26, 1971, at pp. 2-3.

106. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009
107. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009
108. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009


Consult a lawyer.

109. Opus 111 - February 25, 2009


RB is an amazing teacher. He taught me so much and I am grateful for that…

…I do not inner consider those here who are blunt and intolerant to more moderate point of views related to the FOF.

I think your attempt to provide a more moderate view of FOF stems from your difficulty reconciling (as in cognitive dissonance perhaps) the positive experiences you had in the FOF and while being close to REB, with what you are being told on this blog. Something in you cannot acknowledge the monster behind the charismatic man wearing expensive clothes that you knew and loved. We all developed those defenses. Mine was that since I found much more difficult to control my state and emotions than my sexual practices, I could only conclude that my teacher, who could control his state and emotions at will (or so I thought), must be leading his sexual life in a deliberate and loving way, for the greater evolutionary good of his lucky, consenting partners. Convoluted, perhaps?

In fact, your close friends, as you refer to those still in the FOF, at this moment can only regret that by leaving C-Influence and its highest contemporary manifestation (the school), you also lost your understanding and the greatest opportunity for accelerated evolution that humanity has seen. That is one of their defenses.

Two things that appear contradictory can be equally true: you had high experiences, you learn a lot while you were in the FOF. The leader of the FOF, a cult by most if not all accepted definitions, is a dangerously unbalanced man, who has sexually exploited scores of men, in the process breaking relationships, isolating children, and rendered many others financially insolvent by his relentless pursuit of material frivolities (see previous 65 pages for a more complete account of Burton’s planetary achievements).

110. No Kid - February 25, 2009


This is mainly to Andrew. Others take what you will.

I follow this blog from time to time. I was involved in the Fellowship as a child, for ten years, between 1970-1980, and was put out on the street as a teen for not flying quite right. I am referencing post #61, which the moderator kindly re-posted:

Has anyone who has a mind that they can still use, tell me what happened to your kids while you were in this cult?

Yes, Andrew, I can. I joined the Fellowship in 1978 before I had children. I married in 1979; I had my first child in 1982. (snip) also was witness to the neglect of children by their parents in Oregon House.

No Kid responds:
I do not intend to provoke anyone. I do not post here much. I notice that when, very once in a while, there are posts here from people who were actually *children* when we were involved (through our parents, such as they were) that these posts are most often ignored. I wonder why. Anyway, because of that, we tend not to post. I suspect that these kinds of posts make people uncomfortable because if they are parents, or if they had ANY interaction with any children while they were involved, that it points a finger back at them. I think that it is a lot easier to to concerned about the effects that non-consensual sex acts might have on adults (young, non-citizens…I do get the power dynamic) over whom one has no authority than over what the effects of unknown acts involving one’s OWN children might be. It is easier to live with those answers, because someone ELSE is to blame.

Andrew, in post # 103, you wrote: “So I need all of your help my ex is planning on going to apollo with my 12 year old daughter. I am afraid how do I stop them.”

Andrew, you are a grown man. She is a twelve-year old child. If you do not protect your child now, you will have to live with that. Do not think for a minute that she is safe because she is a girl, or “just a baby” or anything. There is a lot of talk on here about RB’s abuses. I am not minimizing that. But anyone who thinks that is the ONLY abuse that goes on in th FoF is way beyond naive. I am not. I would never have survived if I had been. I was only a part of this organization during its “glorious” golden day – before it “got bad” according to many on this list. Nonsense. It was rotten at its root. There were no glory days. In 1971, children went hungry. People who “liked children” were a lot more likely to bring food. Got it? The little ones went for the food and the bigger ones went without. I have no idea what is going on there now, but if you allow someone to take your daughter, that is on YOU. Not the group. Not Robert. Be a man. Protect your child. Please.

I am…
No Kid

111. X-ray - February 25, 2009

‘For example, all the accusations claiming that there were suicides related in any way to FOF actions are deliberate and malicious lies.’

Yes, there were suicides in FOF.
One person was on salary, running the wood shop on the property. His name was Bryan.
The other one wanted to talk to Burton, but was restricted to enter the property. He left a letter addressed to Burton at the gate house, then drove to Yuba City, checked into motel and committed suicide.
His name was also Bryan, ex-husband of Rebeca W., If I’m not mistaken.

112. More history needed? - February 25, 2009


If you have the courage interview Mental health facilities in Yuba city and Nevada city regarding fof “students”.

I know, you probaly do not want to know.

113. fofblogmoderator - February 25, 2009

#110 is newly moderated

114. Roosje - February 25, 2009

The picture becomes clear.
You have NAIVETÉ. Solar! Husband-Boyfriend
totally committed to the FOF.
Rose colored glasses are firmly planted.

Wake up girl!
You are like that Italian priest who recently said that the Holocaust never occurred.

RB’s sexual perversions poisons the souls and minds
of those who are weak, and gives them permission to act
and behave in a similar way.

115. tatyana - February 25, 2009

No Kid, can you tell more of your story? How is it from the point of view of the child? Why do you think lately so many children of FOF members joined?

116. X-ray - February 25, 2009

Critical Mass on July 28, 2007 at 1:40 pm

I didn’t know that Brian Sisler was schizophrenic until he left the Fellowship, but he did have a pathetic quality to him. He was a heavy drinker, an attempt at self-medication I suppose, and he sometimes got into trouble because of his drinking. He said that he didn’t feel able attend any Robert events or FOF concerts without drinking first. After one accident too many, Brian was told to take valium before attending any of Robert’s events, helpfully prescribed by Dr EH. I didn’t have the feeling that Brian was exclusively gay, he seemed to develop crushes on women, so maybe he was bisexual.

The version I heard about Brian’s attempt to contact Robert was that he was turned away by the gatehouse attendant. Robert subsequently sent a message to the gatehouse that any current or former member who asked to speak to Robert should be put through to someone close to Robert, Dorien or Asaf. I wonder if this would really work. The Fellowship # is 692-2244. Don’t all phone up at once.

Ph_lip L_cas can be lunatic about security. He likes guns a lot and regularly goes hunting deer illegally on the property along with M_hai. Others do it to, becase Robert wants to thin down the deer population because of his roses. He also gave Ph_lip permission to shoot any dogs that get onto the property. I’m told that PL took a course in a particular kind of shooting in case Robert is ever involved in a hostage situation. He is paranoid about ex-students getting onto the property, and so gatehouse keepers would be unlikely to be sympathetic to anyone who asks to see Robert.

117. sharon - February 25, 2009

x-ray – you do know that PL left the FoF a year or so ago?

118. X-ray - February 25, 2009

Dr. E___n H____s. MD. has to be reported to the Medical Board district office for investigation of the possible Prescription Drug Abuse such as Viagra, Darvon and Valium.

Click to access investigations_english-web.pdf


119. Wildz - February 25, 2009

First off, members of the Fellowship of Friends do not go to Oregon House to hang out with their children. They are farmed out to where ever is convenient so they can participate in the adult activities.
When I moved to Oregon House with my husband and children in 1991 I was a stay at home mom and made my “third line” work volunteer work at the Fellowship school, Lewis Carroll School. One day in the summer of 1992 I received a call from the person running the day care. She needed help! She was overrun with children of people visiting (mostly from foreign countries). I arrived to chaos. The teacher handed me a little 3 year old Italian girl who spoke no English and was crying hysterically. The teacher told me that every time the child arrived at the day care she would be hysterical and cry non-stop. I took this little soul into my arms, my lap. I grabbed a book and started reading to her. I pointed to the pictures and said the English name and looked at her. She stopped crying. She told me the Italian name. A break through! It was so sweet. Later that day her mother took her to the beach at Lake Nancy. When no one was watching she fell in the water and almost drowned. The next day when she was dropped off at the day care she was not crying and hysterical, she seemed to be happy. A young man told me that he believed it was because she had had a near death experience at the lake. I know it was because she was shown a little love by a volunteer.

120. elena - February 25, 2009


I was trying to make a real effort to find the beauty of the Fellowship but this is all I got. Please help me remember what it is that you found so good.

People were beautiful. Everyone worked so hard to make it work.

The flower arrangements by Mildred were truly beautiful. The opera singers gave us so much and the actors and actresses. Without them we would have suffered twice as much! The gardens I much enjoyed and the bonsai trees. The lodge when food was free and plentiful and there was still an atmosphere of relaxation. Girard’s willingness to work with everything and everyone, as long as no one stepped over the boundary. People’s willingness to support everything, serve, work, make money, bring friends, harvest the grapes. People’s willingness to make superhuman efforts was beautiful but tragically abused.

Robert’s daily cards that came out every day like the Sun! His consistency to keep it running, like a Swiss clock. Everyday the same thing for thirty five years only that each day the only thing that mattered more was how much more money could people squeeze out of their pockets for another ridiculous statue painted in gold with another little man and his fairy like youth and one more event in which only Robert talked each time more aggressive about how the ritual had to work not realizing his own limitations and throwing no matter who out because they were too old or too young or too human.

The difficulty I find in the quest for beauty in the Fellowship is that nothing was genuinely coming from the people. It was all made up to look good at the cost of the person making the effort. The dinners, the concerts, everything looked perfect but no one looked happy. Everyone looked submitted, controlled, forced and no one ever got a celebration for their effort. Any recognition, if it happened to come, had to be only from Robert. As if the cult had to make people miserable with themselves, stealing the joy of working or creating so that it could justify the continued submission in their own eyes.

Some people commit suicide because they feel that they are of no value to anyone and they have long lost their own sense of self-worth. In the account of both suicides,Brian and Brian, they were looking for Robert to give them back the sense of themselves that they didn’t have and finding the doors closed it left them no alternative. This is one possible scenario that might sound very familiar to anyone who’s lived a similar experience. These men had probably fallen deeply in that kind of dependent love for Robert that can’t live without the lover because only he or she gives them self-value. Like children looking for parents they never found. A very common experience in our times. There have been many other suicide attempts in the Fellowship that are not on record here but what is worth observing is not only the extreme lives that quickly get there but the fact that Fellowship members function as if they were all in that kind of dependent love relationship with Robert. No one is valued unless Robert puts attention on people. The idolatry phenomenon is exactly that: It feeds itself in the vicious circle in which the guru never satisfies the need for acceptance of the members so they keep working harder and harder obsessively trying to satisfy him. Like any rotten relationship with an abuser of no matter what type.

By what we know about other cults ending in massive suicide, it is very easy to connect the process that would eventually lead to that. We know that a huge number of members live on prozac or other anti-depressants. Another interesting aspect is that when people become so clearly alienated from themselves, suicide just happens without anyone thinking about it. It is not something you plan and carry out. It is the consequence of something you’ve built up to for a long time without even knowing that you are on a self-destructive road.

At this point I think it is important that we clarify that what is being said here does not necessarily mean that every member of the Fellowship is about to commit suicide tomorrow. The final suicide of people in cults is just a consequence of years and years of building up to it. This building up to it is what is worth looking at now. Wether the Fellowship would ever get there or not is not something we are trying to predict today but all the symptoms are there and it is 99% of unnecessary suffering or what else would you call “working hopelessly for a narcissistic sociopath” in a cult in which the only life that matters is Robert Burton’s?

121. Another Name - February 25, 2009

Dear X ray

Please try to get a copy of the manuscript of Marlene Dasman’s book. This manuscript is dedicated to Brian Sisler and what he had to go through in the Blake cottage. Please before you assume Brain was schizophrenic and used alcohol, please do some more research. This sensitive soul who studied art before coming to Apollo had a very different side then you are describing…. Before you label him as pathetic and assumes about his sexlife…..

And what PL concerns…you do not seem to be informed well. He has changed a loooooooooooot.

X ray wrote:

I didn’t know that Brian Sisler was schizophrenic until he left the Fellowship, but he did have a pathetic quality to him. He was a heavy drinker, an attempt at self-medication I suppose, and he sometimes got into trouble because of his drinking. He said that he didn’t feel able attend any Robert events or FOF concerts without drinking first. After one accident too many, Brian was told to take valium before attending any of Robert’s events, helpfully prescribed by Dr EH. I didn’t have the feeling that Brian was exclusively gay, he seemed to develop crushes on women, so maybe he was bisexual.

122. fofblogmoderator - February 25, 2009

118 is newly moderated

123. Ill Never Tell - February 25, 2009

j_s_ph m_nt_gl__n_; looked like an accident. several suicides and attempted suicides of close family members of Fellowship of Friends members (oh! I guess that could just be written off as collateral damage.) Those, knowingly, living adverse life styles that brought them to premature deaths. examples: Sexually Transmitted Diseases, (rotten) heart conditions, cancers. but everyone aught to know, that it is not the dead that brings down the army in the battle of life. it is the walking wounded, the greatest burden, that endure the suffering that comes from the simultaneous torture chamber and love boat number 9. Many members are basket cases but still alive. What would you expect from continuously having to do what you do not wish to do?

the main difference between a mass suicide of jonestown or branch davidian and the fellowship of friends is a matter of the degree (read: scale) and measurement of the amount per unit of time (read: relativity).

124. Ill Never Tell - February 25, 2009

75. veramente:

‘It’s hard to leave friends behind and even your whole life.’

– – – – – –

A man and his dog were walking along a road. The man was enjoying the scenery, when it suddenly occurred to him that he was dead.

He remembered dying, and that the dog walking beside him had been dead for years. He wondered where the road was leading them.

After a while, they came to a high, white stone wall along one side of the road. It looked like fine marble. At the top of a long hill, it was broken by a tall arch that glowed in the sunlight. When he was standing before it he saw a magnificent gate in the arch that looked like mother-of-pearl, and the street that led to the gate looked like pure gold. He and the dog walked toward the gate, and as he got closer, he saw a man at a desk to one side. When he was close enough, he called out, ‘Excuse me, where are we?’ ‘This is Heaven, sir,’ the man answered. ‘Wow! Would you happen to have some water?’ the man asked. Of course, sir. Come right in, and I’ll have some ice water brought right up.’ The man gestured, and the gate began to open. ‘Can my friend,’ gesturing toward his dog, ‘come in, too?’ the traveler asked. ‘I’m sorry, sir, but we don’t accept pets.’

The man thought a moment and then turned back toward the road and continued the way he had been going with his dog.

After another long walk, and at the top of another long hill, he came to a dirt road leading through a farm gate that looked as if it had never been closed. There was no fence. As he approached the gate, he saw a man inside, leaning against a tree and reading a book. ‘Excuse me!’ he called to the man. ‘Do you have any water?’ ‘Yeah, sure, there’s a pump over there, come on in.’ ‘How about my friend here?’ the traveler gestured to the dog. ‘There should be a bowl by the pump.’ They went through the gate, and sure enough, there was an old-fashioned hand pump with a bowl beside it.

The traveler filled the water bowl and took a long drink himself, then he gave some to the dog. When they were full, he and the dog walked back toward the man who was standing by the tree. ‘What do you call this place?’ the traveler asked. ‘This is Heaven,’ he answered. ‘Well, that’s confusing,’ the traveler said. ‘The man down the road said that was Heaven, too.’ ‘Oh, you mean the place with the gold street and pearly gates? Nope. That’s Hell.’ ‘Doesn’t it make you mad for them to use your name like that?’ ‘No, we’re just happy that they screen out the folks who would leave their best friends behind.’

125. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009

94 someone

“That’s mere power and it does not intimidate me.”

pfffft. Are you daft?

You are calling Burton an “amazing teacher”. He is someone who weilds unfettered, absolute and selfish power that intimidates you to this day. You are still being abused by it.

126. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009

Pathetic: causing or arousing pity or sorrow.

127. Someone - February 25, 2009

120. elena,

In a way it has always been the issue that one sets-up ones own rules and think the surrounding is supposed to accept it.

That’s exactly what happened to me. RB moved to a new kind of teaching and I wasn’t coping with it. Many things changes as result.
Octaves became clumsy, food preparation at the Apollod’oro lost standards. The direct reason for that was that psychological observations on mechanistically have been waved. I was working there long hours and I saw behaviors that a year before would have never taken place. I saw a cook filling-up a cooking pot with hot water from the tap instead of boiling fresh water.

That is to my opinion part of renouncing the psychological work and of the idea of photographing. People were not using photographs as a working tool anymore. I tried hard to ask people to maintain good-house-holder and failed.

At first I was quite decisive and expected that RB SHOULD NOT renounce 4th way methods and especially not the psychology. After a while I came to realize that I cannot really expect RB to act according to my expectations and I realized that if I do not accept that, I have to leave and I left.

Reading some of your posts, I can see a great deal of expectation part in you related to how the FOF should be or should have been. Ideas like lack of community life etc’ are great and I warmly support them, only RB has in mind some new kind of a monastery.

So, the FOF has not met my expectations on some areas and has not met yours in other areas. That’s a fact that, to my opinion needs to be accepted.

This forum is a great place for self expression, yet I see almost no tolerance in relation to those who left and do not share all the massive attacks on RB and the FOF.

I am truly happy that I spent all these years in the FOF. It is a painful process to adjust to a new way of life, yet I would be happy if this forum could sustain more colors than black & white or I would say more colors than black.

128. Someone - February 25, 2009

Please excuse my misspells I do not have a speller on this PC.

129. Panorea - February 25, 2009

Hi Someone,

it is not that your colours are not “sustained” in this forum. I am glad you write. It is that so many souls have had different experiences than the ones you describe. Not any single person who writes here was able to express their opinion and thoughts in the Fellowship. If you call them a liar, you may as well accept the fact they will react to your accusations.

You seem to have mainly difficulties with the efficiency of the teaching. Others have noticed more issues and have suffered a lot. It might be painful to listen to their voices but if you really want to connect with what they are saying you need to listen a bit more carefully.

If you know most of us personally as you say, why don’t you give the ones you call liars a call to see how they are doing?

130. X-ray - February 25, 2009

121. Another Name – February 25, 2009

Have you not seen the name ‘Critical Mass on July 28, 2007 at 1:40 pm’ on the top of the pasted text?


131. Panorea - February 25, 2009

What I have never been able to understand is how professional psychiatrists and psychologists can belong to an organization as the Fellowship of Friends and “treat” (and consequently often medicate) members of that same organization. I asked an acquaintance who is a professional psychiatrist here in Europe and told me that the combination would have been unacceptable on this continent. A therapist needs to be impartial and assist their patient. If you are part of the Fellowship and suffer from what is going on there, how on earth are you going to confess to someone who protects Robert’s agenda?

132. Someone - February 25, 2009

129. Panorea

I called lies to some particular posts and not to everyone’s and I clarified that.

For example those posts connecting suicides to FOF actions are completely lies!!! Those who write such posts repeatedly, are deliberately doing so in order to hinder the FOF .

The number of those who committed suicide in the FOF is less than any other urban or country-side community. The same does for family members.

Blaming the FOF for those suicides is malicious. More than that, there are some people here that posted messages putting suicides blame on the FOF for death cases that have never been even suspected to be suicidal. I personally checked one of those death cases with the deceased parents and they said that it was caused by drugs overdose and that the FOF had nothing to do with it. That person who died received much support and love from the parents, but unfortunately it did not help. I know that for a fact and I knew it before the death occurred.

Here in this forum someone posted a message stating that that particular death was a suicide case caused by FOF conduct.

That is what I call a lie.

133. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009

It is a testament to the strength of the human spirit that there weren’t many more suicides from the crushing psychological abuse of the psychopath.

That is what i call the truth.

134. nigel harris price - February 25, 2009

What makes REB charismatic (and able to hold a ‘living lie’ like the FOF together)? Personally, I found he evoked my fear feature up until just before I came out of the Fellowship. Is it his dominance feature pretending to give the members something with the idea of living a cultured existence? I guess what I am saying is “How the hell do these cult leaders get away with hypnotising their blinded followers?”…..Nigel.

135. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009

That’s exactly what happened to me. RB moved to a new kind of teaching and I wasn’t coping with it. Many things changes as result.
Octaves became clumsy, food preparation at the Apollod’oro lost standards. The direct reason for that was that psychological observations on mechanistically have been waved. I was working there long hours and I saw behaviors that a year before would have never taken place. I saw a cook filling-up a cooking pot with hot water from the tap instead of boiling fresh water.


What the fuck??!!!

Am I in BIZZARRO universe? Is there some duplicate planet doing a fairyphasic shift with this one. One is an image of a huge Hindu deity with severed arms, heads and entrails dripping from it’s demonic jaws. In the other June Cleaver just has to leave with her panties in a twist because Pedro didn’t do the water right.

136. nigel harris price - February 25, 2009

135 Yesri Baba

I am sure your specialist can prescribe something for these ‘visions’…..Nigel

137. elena - February 25, 2009

No Kid, Thank you for your voice here again.


Thank you for writing. I wish others here like Yesri, whose voice has been invaluable so often, would realize that members like you who just left (in the last two, three years) need no kind of excess and all the relativity no matter how much we err. People who just came out of ten or twenty years in the Fellowship are in a very different condition to others. It takes a long time to drop off the cloak and the blog would help a great deal if it criticises without ridiculing or hurting people. Words like fuck have a lot of power and they do hurt. They’ll silence the poster and we won’t have heard what matters.

Someone, I gather by your answers that what you thought was beautiful and great about Robert and the Fellowship was the high gold alchemy standards under which we lived for so many years and that when that standard corrupted you no longer felt you could stay in the Fellowship.

Would it be accurate to say that you loved the sense of order and security that the Fellowship offered for so many years and that it is difficult to cope with a world in which your expectations are not met? That precisely having everything so “organized”
in the Fellowship was a true relief? How long did you stay? What else was so rewarding to you?

I completely believe that hundreds of Fellowship members would agree with what you are saying and that needs to be looked at as much as the black side. Maybe you’ll be able to see the gray when you are able to express the white.

I imagine you enjoyed what you did and did it with love for the Fellowship? That you had friends and felt rewarded by your efforts? That Robert supported you many times in small ways? Could you share more of that? It would be a pleasure to hear it after all the darkness we’ve exposed. One does not erase the other, they live side by side in an almost perfect match.

138. Someone - February 25, 2009

137. elena

These are not the externals that I was drawn to and gold alchemy is not so appealing to me. I was truly connected to the work on myself and I still do. I had many good friends that I had to say goodbye to and I think did it with honest understanding that I cannot stay just because of them.

Second line almost stopped. I means second line in the 4th way sense when fellow students served as mirrors (not necessarily verbally ). Suddenly a convent started. I probably cannot live in a convent. I tried for a while and it did not work.

Yesri Baba I feel sorry for you. You remind me of some real bullies I used to hang around with when I was 18. I suggest you start growing-up and come to see that the fact that you use that kind of language does not give any more validity to what you say here, maybe the opposite is true.

139. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009


For example those posts connecting suicides to FOF actions are completely lies!!!
Blaming the FOF for those suicides is malicious.

Let’s examine the evidence.

Burton publicly announces,

“Do not try to save anybody here who tries to commit suicide. They shouldn’t be here. And they will strangle you just as some drowning people drown someone who tries to save them.” (October 26, 1971).

In other words, if someone is suicidal in the Fellowship, don’t try to help them, if you do try they will drag you down and strangle you.

I can hardly think of a policy which would promote individual suicides more than this one. If they are in the school and they are suicidal, don’t help them.

Then, in 1972, “a special meeting was called and it was announced that a woman who had left the school had committed suicide. This was seen as an example of what happens when students do not value the knowledge they have been exposed to. The school had become a lifetime endeavor! (Only for those who were strong enough to succeed.)” Account of Barbara Bruno Lancaster from the book, Cults and Consequences, at http://tinyurl.com/Lore-Fisher-Smith.

So, to recap:

1. Burton states, if they’re suicidal, don’t help them, they will drag you down and strangle you.

2. A woman (Lore Fisher-Smith) leaves the Fellowship and commits suicide.

3. Burton calls a meeting and states that this is what happens when people don’t value esoteric knowledge, i.e., when they leave the school. Don’t leave the school, it might happen to you. But if you’re suicidal, no one should help you, because you will drag them down and strangle them. If you’re suicidal, you’re on your own.

4. Kevin Kelly, a quadriplegic, has a basically stable life. Burton insists that his prophesies are going to happen and that California is going to fall into the ocean. People are required to quit their jobs and move to Oregon House. Kevin uproots his basically stable but difficult quadriplegic life. The prophesied fall of California does not happen. Kevin kills himself by drowning himself in the river. I am told he was not permitted to have a funeral.

These are two clear examples of the interconnection between Burton’s statements, fellowship policy and suicides. So, Someone, I am interested to know why you believe the suicides are not connected to Burton or the Fellowship.

Others may have more detailed information than I have about Brian Sisler and Kimo Beech. Tell the stories in detail, please.

140. dragon - February 25, 2009

One aspect of the American way of life is that everything that is apparently well established is called into question. E.g. French or German students have a very respectful attitude towards their teachers and (faith)fully transcribe the words of their “masters”. On the contrary, American students do not hesitate to “fire” questions at their professors and they do not satisfy themselves with ready-made answers.

Is this one reason for REB’s idolatry of the “English style of behaviour”? The “master” attitude of “his” “beloved” students!

Under certain kinds of stress or duress, individuals can be made to comply with the demands of those in power. They can also be induced to adopt beliefs and behaviours far different from those that were characteristic of them before the stress was applied. Terms like brainwashing, thought reform, coercive persuasion, and mind control have been employed to describe these processes and to account for consequential changes in personality and behaviour.

As we know are similar methods used by leaders of cults to recruit, retain, and exploit members.

An older but short and succinct article:


103. andrew

At 12 years of age, children are in a very special situation. They show adolescent behaviour and need stability and security.

I AM MORE THAN SCEPTICAL ABOUT the methods of the FOF to guarantee a healthy growth for the children of its members.

I would immediately consult a lawyer and a psychiatrist who are experienced with cult victims and their children.

I would try to receive the sole custody of the child.

At some point in the future, the child will probably ask me: “What have you done?”

And then only a few words: I tried to give you shelter for your development because I became aware of the great responsibility and the joy you brought in our lives (the life of your mother/who was in a very bad situation in that FOF cult and my life).

141. brucelevy - February 25, 2009


You wish moderation on the blog. Your “moderation” means words that will make “you” feel comfortable. You state as “lies” facts that others know as certain truth. Your inability to see your own perceptual limitations would almost be humorous if it wasn’t so sad.

You are free to say what you wish here. As am I. Madam, you’re an idiot. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, and you have no inner governor to throws you hints that you’re way over your head.

142. elena - February 25, 2009


I too was very happy working with the non expression of negative emotions for a long time and other aspects of the work. I am sure it helped my children as much as my self.

Why do you think it was impossible for you or us to express your wish to have more second line or keep up the high standards? Did you just accept it was Robert Burton’s school and even though you supported it for so many years you could not voice out your opinion because our opinions didn’t matter? Do you think Robert’s supremacy is really coming from a conscious being?

Thank you Jomo for such clear information on these suicides. I had never heard about Lore Fisher Smith. It could have happened to any one of us because we all lived what she describes.

Aileen C’s name could be added to that list as a daughter of a student even if it is said that it was an accident. She had had such “accidents” before and I witnessed at least one of them while she lived with me. She went to Oregon House looking for help and did not find it. My few months with her in the middle of my leaving were, to my great regret, not good enough. I should have brought her here with me as I thought at some point but it was too much for me at the time.

H.Now’s. name, another Fellowship child should also be on that list, she’s tried to commit serious enough suicides at least three or four times. The effects of the Fellowship and their relatedness couldn’t be more clear with both parents as both members and ex-member.
Not on that list fortunately but on the list of the millions of damages that the Fellowship is not supposed to be related to. When they are told enough, many will realize that they can’t be separated.

143. elena - February 25, 2009

Speaking of colors, I think it was Goethe who said that colors are the suffering of light!

144. Opus 111 - February 25, 2009


I personally checked one of those death cases with the deceased parents and they said that it was caused by drugs overdose and that the FOF had nothing to do with it.


I guess Kevin K did not commit suicide, he just jumped and drowned in the river. Brian S. tied a knot around his neck a little tight.

How can you know the state of mind of a person who overdoses on drugs? (I realize it goes for both sides of the interpretation of the facts) Can you be sure that the parents (still in FOF I presume) are not overcompensating a little to cope with the consequences of FOF-induced neglect of their child?

145. nigel harris price - February 25, 2009

139 Jomo Pinata

Burton declares “All those who leave the school are food for the moon”. Price is failing in maintaining his teaching payments and the last day of his membership makes an unsuccessful suicide attempt. After 3 and 1/2 years struggling with consequent clinical depression he is sectioned under the mental health act and diagnosed with bi-polar affective disdorder – a serious, but treatable mental illness.

The fact is that, for the most part, the FOF and certainly Burton do not care about people with similar conditions. The standard to maintain in the FOF is one of a ‘kick-ass-in-life-money-making’ student who adheres to all the standards and rules set by the ‘teacher’. It is difficult enough to live with any sense of normality in the FOF without these imposed conditions.


146. Vena - February 25, 2009

As someone who knew Brian Sisler since 1977 I can tell you that he was a very different person before he became a coerced lover of Robert Burton. I had known him at Renaissance and then saw him in Europe on one of the trips with Robert. He was deeply disturbed and told me that Robert told him that if he didn’t start “acting right” he would be sent home. By “acting right” it was clearly implied and understood that this referred to his expected role as a sexual partner. Brian was never the same after that. I don’t remember how long after this that Brian was thrown out of Robert’s circle but he became more and more distressed. He used to walk the roads of Oregon House day and night in despair. Robert would pass him in the grand Mercedes with the currently favored new boys. The rest of Brian’s story has been told here on the blog. The point that I am making is that there can be no denial that his personal relationship with Robert contributed to his psychological decline and eventual death. And just for the record, I don’t think Brian was homosexual. He was attracted to women before his experience with Robert. It has been too easy for the Fellowship to dismiss cases like this by labeling the person as unstable, etc. and not acknowledging that Robert’s actions contributed to and perhaps in some cases caused the instability.

147. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009
148. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009

Previous link was to a post by Ames Gilbert about Brian Sisler. The posts aren’t numbered. Scroll approx. 3/4 down the page.

149. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009
150. Crouching Tiger - February 25, 2009


“At first I was quite decisive and expected that RB SHOULD NOT renounce 4th way methods and especially not the psychology. After a while I came to realize that I cannot really expect RB to act according to my expectations and I realized that if I do not accept that, I have to leave and I left.”

Burton never had ‘4th Way methods’ (whatever they might be) to renounce in the first place. He certainly appropriated the terminology used by Ouspensky, but that is quite different. But one of the crucial elements in Gurdjieff’s teaching – perhaps THE most crucial element – was missing right from the start…

The factor that stabilizes and eventually give meaning to all the ‘states’ experienced in the fellowship was, and is missing. The body.

It isn’t such a surprise that Burton managed to interest himself in other teaching ‘methods’ so quickly, when you consider that his initial teaching was never properly grounded in the first place. The character is maverick, it appropriates shallow support from wherever it wants…. Sufism, Buddhism, the Philokalia etc… It’s not a sign of higher understanding, it’s a sign of something that was never securely rooted.

151. tatyana - February 25, 2009

Someone, you are funny. I feel a young mentality coming from your posts. “I saw a cook filling-up a cooking pot with hot water from the tap instead of boiling fresh water. That is to my opinion part of renouncing the psychological work and of the idea of photographing.”
Why don’t you start your own cult where people will have to pay fine if they fill a cooking pot with a tap water?
I don’t think you know anything about love, commitments, giving up your children, suicides, rape, abuse. You are too young and too self-centered.

152. Vena - February 25, 2009

Yesri Baba:

Who was Charles Forline and why did you post that link?

153. Walter J. Tanner - February 25, 2009

To Someone:

Bravo on your recognition of what happens to an intentional community when certain psychological principles are abandoned. Yikes, if standards are slipping in Fellowship octaves, then I wonder about the standards in Robert’s bedroom! I have heard stories!

You have given a fine first-line reason for leaving the Fellowship, similar to others’ accounts of the outright degeneration (I’m using it in Collin-Smith’s sense) of the teaching. Mantras. Really? Mantras?

Nothing against mantras, fine for good old religion #2. “Some new kind of monastery,” indeed!

This blog has lots of pages and I want to assure you, as someone who’s read them from the beginning, that plenty of people have written posts honoring their Fellowship past, even extending gratitude, extolling virtues obtained through Fellowship work.

But just about every one of them also confesses that their participation fed and protected real suffering. When I was a “good student” I saw that there was all this real suffering going on, but I just thought the “second conscious shock” was just too hard for people to do, so I thought I’d just keep going-on about it. But they seemed attached to their suffering and couldn’t let it go, and of course Robert speaks highly of suffering, so I guess the fourth-way stuff had to eventually go.

It looks like you started a conversation.


154. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009

Charles Forline threw himself under a train years after leaving the Fellowship. Stella and Harold had introduced him to me as a former member of the Fellowship.

155. Jomo Piñata - February 25, 2009

Stella and Harold rented for years from Charles Forline. He walked around Berkeley in his bare feet and I believe it was important to him to be barefoot as an individual right. He was renting out rooms in a home which, it came to light, he did not own. The Berkeley ordinance required him to have registered the house with the City and he overlooked this little detail, which made the rentals illegal. He may have been concerned when he was found out that he was going to have to pay back all the rents he had collected, I’m not sure. But I have the sense that his being found out precipitated the suicide.

156. Bares Reposting - February 25, 2009

Concerning the suicides and other cult ur(in)al adversities/abnormalities that surround the Fellowship of Friends ( A.K.A Pathway to Presence):

123. Ill Never Tell said:

‘the main difference between a mass suicide of jonestown or branch davidian and the fellowship of friends is a matter of the degree (read: scale) and measurement of the amount per unit of time (read: relativity).’


‘several suicides and attempted suicides of close family members of Fellowship of Friends members (oh! I guess that could just be written off as collateral damage.) Those, knowingly, living adverse life styles that brought them to premature deaths. examples: Sexually Transmitted Diseases, (rotten) heart conditions, cancers. but everyone aught to know, that it is not the dead that brings down the army in the battle of life. it is the walking wounded, the greatest burden, that endure the suffering that comes from the simultaneous torture chamber and love boat number 9. Many members are basket cases but still alive. . .’

Add to that the rampant drug and alcohol abuse.

Someone, and others who are just reading and not posting – but likewise are still on that cruise on the river in North Africa that flows in the opposite direction of most rivers on the planet called DENIAL (the Nile) – WAKE UP you sorry bastards.

Sure there were some positive aspects of life in the Fellowship (true of almost anything), but as a whole, it is a VERY, VERY sick situation (and getting worse all the time) and attracts its own version of criminality – corruption. I am speaking from over 30 years of close and intimate experience of most aspects of the environment without going into the sordid details (already described here in the past 65 pages) as if it were some kind of Sisyphian Labour. The main reason it, the Fellowship of Friends, still exists is that so many people have bet their entire lives on it and cannot bring themselves to the above realization. Maybe the death of the leader will change things, but I doubt it. History proves otherwise. Things will likely get worse. Listen to the sound of the descending octave playing out its tune: Clear and present danger.

157. elena - February 25, 2009

Yes, Robert does leave out the body but only ours. Not his or the demand for money and beauty around him and his properties. Not the young boys. Not his swimming pool and cars.

Our bodies, that is, our physical presence is accepted only in absolute silence and abnegation.

Some members think that he can do all that because he is a divine being and the rest of us are beggars, third class citizens, women, men who are not willing to have sex with him, too old, too young, too human or “the lower self”!

Looking back, nothing weakened the inner structure of my being as much as not doing any exercise for years. Health, thought and emotions all suffered from the feeling of being stagnant. The lack of movement meant more work in other areas, mostly intellectual which tended to crystalize incorrectly as well. Movement allows the different centers to work together in harmony. Through movement we express our state, our considerateness and acknowledgement of others. It is also an expression of second line of work and that of course is what Robert most avoids because it weakens the process of dependency and idolatry on him. Healthy movement strengthens one’s sense of one’s self and evokes joy… like dancing.

Someone, if I hadn’t been an idiot and had lot of idioticness still in me, I would have not come into contact with the Fellowship. Welcome to the club! When I left two years ago, I wanted all the ex-members to rejoin with me! I desperately tried to hold on to all the beauty but it crumbled into pieces in a very short length of time. You are welcome here.

158. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009

152 Vena

Up the page there was a list of people who were in or had been in the ‘fellowship’ and had committed suicide. It seemed that there was a querry if anyone knew of any others. Charles came to my mind as I had read that article linked on the GF ‘In Memoriam’ forum.

I remembered Charles from way back when. I believe he was in the business of selling recycled demolition lumber and stuff like that. I think the ‘farm’ got some materials for the new shop from him when the ‘barn’ was torn down. I could be wrong about those facts.

He was an eccentric, kind of odd fellow always anxious to help out.

159. X-ray - February 25, 2009

So who is responsible for devastation and destruction of people’s lives in Fellowship of Friends?

160. elena - February 25, 2009

Robert Burton and all of us in what ever degree we participated. But just as Robert got all the benefits, he can also take most of the responsibility and each his own. There are quite a few others who are not willing to let go of the rope and keep trying to hang new, fresh prospective members. They too are responsible.

161. Yesri Baba - February 25, 2009


Spiritual enlightenment sits next to an empty milk carton
on an orange lunch tray in a gradeschool cafeteria.
It’s lying in the grass in a ditch beside a rusting hubcap.
It’s in the button holding closed the left cuff of a somewhat
important man’s shirt.

Enlightenment can be found next to the elevator on the
fourth level of the airport parking garage.

You can ask your dog for it, but he may not give it to you.

Look for it next to the pen in the pocket
of the checkout girl’s red vest,
but only on Wednesdays.

Enlightenment is in the trunk, behind the jack.
You can hear it in the squeak of a hinge at the local library.
It’s in the breeze blowing unheard through an unseen tree.
It’s in the space after the exhale and before the inhale.

You can find enlightenment in church,
in that scratch on the back of the pew in front of you.

– you can find it in the desert,
just before the wind picks up again.-

Enlightenment is nothing.
Delusion is the greatest wonder.

Enlightenment was in your coffee cup
before you poured in the coffee.
Now it’s in your coffee cup.
Two point two billion years
before your coffee cup was created,
Enlightenment was in your coffee cup.
An hour and fifteen minutes
after time destroys the universe,
Enlightenment will be in your coffee cup.

You’ve always known where it is
because it is exactly where you left it.
How can you not return to a place you never left?
You are dreaming that you are unenlightened.
You are dreaming that you are awake.

The question is: Why?
The answer is: Why not?

Jed McKenna

162. nigel harris price - February 25, 2009

161 Yesri Baba

Ouspensky actually stated “You can study systems and system ideas for years and not come to anything real”. I truly believe that REB is a wrongly crystalised being and has set up the role of G—-d H—n to continue the lineage of dominance as a pseudo-style of ‘partial awakening’. Let me state that there is no way that a true and healthy spiritual enlightenment can come from the FOF in its present form. Basically, there is too much crap and subterfuge from the leader…..Nigel.

163. elena - February 26, 2009


Are you working for the Fellowship? You don’t really answer questions and your positions are too Fellowshipy to not wonder. I think Bruce smelled you out already and Yesri and since I’m quite dumb I thought you were real but no, you don’t make sense, it’s a script.

Your job is to say those things: the Fellowship is fine and I don’t agree with the changes in Robert’s doctrine so I left which is how Robert explained why so many people were leaving, because they couldn’t keep up with his teaching.

What a pathetic role you’ve chosen for your self but thank you for being here, you’ve brought some wonderful things out of many of the posters.

Have fun with your next role. Tell Robert T. and other actors to train you a little better. If you hadn’t been so condescending with me I might have believed you. Funny the little things that give us away! It surprised me so positively that it just didn’t fit! Thank you for that though, it’s a good step.

164. The FOFion - February 26, 2009

Blog is ‘Depressing’ Says FOF Shrink

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Fellowship of Friends Psychiatrist Ivan Snobordski spoke before the 39th Annual Conference of American Psychiatrists in Support of Guru Abuse Techniques and Thought Control (ACAPSGATTC).

“I’m concerned that people are getting depressed by reading the blog,” Snobordski said. “People are actually starting to pause and think before they buy raffle tickets — a sure sign of depression.”

Snobordski recommends that FOF members immediately smash their computers over a rock, and throw their BlackBerry devices and iPhones into Lake Nancy.

“Not only will it be more challenging to read the blog,” Snobordski said, “but it’s quite therapeutic. After that, repeat a Sequence several times. And, by the way, remember the six recently revised steps of the sequence — Just Don’t Ask Just Don’t Tell.”

Snobordski said there is absolutely nothing wrong with the FOF, adding that none of his patients are members of the cult.

“Well, you know, everyone is happy in the FOF,” Snobordski said. “or at least everyone is doing a great job of pretending they’re happy. But since the blog began three years ago — I’ve been getting a lot of phone calls, which does concern me. So, smash those computers now.”

165. brucelevy - February 26, 2009

163. elena

“Are you working for the Fellowship?”

I don’t think so. I think Somebody is just trying to re-ingratiate themselves with those C.S. in the FOF. It feels like it may be the only “family” that Someone has experienced. Quite a few people are attracted to the FOF simply because it’s a “non-negative” protective environment (while actually it’s the exact opposite).

166. somebody - February 26, 2009

Please! somebody and someone are two differnet people!

167. brucelevy - February 26, 2009

So sorry.

168. X-ray - February 26, 2009

‘160. elena – February 25, 2009
Robert Burton and all of us in what ever degree we participated.’

Those who were involved directly with the boys, Viagra and Darvon, are equally responsible for his addictions and his crimes. Those who weren’t, should not be blamed for nothing.

169. WhaleRider - February 26, 2009

Accusing “someone” or anyone here for that matter of “working for the Fellowship” (like the Communist Party) is not constructive criticism, insulting, will make them defensive, and possibly drive them away from the blog.

Remember that in some respects our harsh negativity on the blog against Burton and the Fellowship of Friends AKA Pathway to Presence also serves the Fellowship and Burton’s aims of keeping his followers isolated from any criticism whatsoever.

I am not suggesting we dance around the abuse the Fellowship is promoting, but verbally abusing, blaming, or denouncing other ex-members is not going to win us any converts. Hell, we all worked for the Fellowship at one time. It’s the difference between owning our negative feelings versus projecting our negative feelings onto others.

What I am suggesting that we speak from our own feelings and experiences.

Be in your power. Speak your own truth. Who cares whether a poster is in or out?

170. elena - February 26, 2009

It could be but I doubt it. It just doesn’t sound credible to me. If she’s real she can come up with better points than she’s made, I’m not insulting her by doubting. The story is equally pathetic even if she weren’t making it up. But if she doesn’t come back here to prove that she’s genuine, I can assure you that she’s still a member and probably isn’t even a she. Conversation is good so whatever she or he is, they are welcome. I’ve already welcomed her three times.

There’s a great difference between being blamed and taking responsibility. “Shit happens” as they say and it is not about blame. People commit suicide and there are absurd enough people that blame them but “no one knows the thirst with which another drinks”. Helping people not hurt others or them selves anymore is not about blaming them.

Your question seems very simple. Who is responsible? Robert Burton is the Teacher of the Fellowship of Friends. The Fellowship of Friends is Robert Burton’s School (Cult). He is the only one who has been directing it for thirty-five years. He is responsible for everything that happens inside including the damages on people’s lives directly or indirectly connected to the Fellowship.

The rest of us have already suffered so many consequences for our involvement in the Fellowship that who could ask us to pay more? But who could stop us from doing what we know needs to be done? And those in the inner circle still trying to hold the Fellowship together, inducing more people into its fangs so that they can continue to live in their fantasy, why would they not be held as responsible as they are?

Everyone who was involved with the Fellowship is responsible for stopping it from harming more people, whether they are willing to acknowledge their responsibility or not. People might think that if they travel to Timbaktu and never hear about the Fellowship again, they are free from its influence but I don’t believe that. Everyone that gets harmed by it without my doing anything about it is my responsibility because I know it is a dangerous place. As if I knew that there is a hole on the road and allowed cars to fall into it without trying to warn them or fill the hole. There are different degrees of responsibility and each must weigh his. Most of us where idiotic and ignorant enough to deny what was before our eyes for too many years. We are responsible for that too and have much suffered the consequences already. We know the Fellowship of Friends Cult will continue to do harm for as long as it stands and trying to stop it is acknowledging one’s connection and responsibility to it. Running away and pretending it happened to others is just another great big buffer in one’s life.

I do not wish to be hanging around this matter in twenty-two years like many of you who left then. You are still hanging around it because you know you are linked to it. It needs to be resolved so that we can all rest. It is no different to knowing a narcissistic psycopath has a gun; no one rests until they’ve taken the gun away from him and put him in an asylum. Hopefully that will happen before more tragedies occur.

171. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 26, 2009

169: I agree with Whalerider. It was nice that for awhile we were having conversations and less accusations. Life has enough drama. Why add more?

172. in2it - February 26, 2009

166. somebody: “Please! somebody and someone are two different people!”

I hadn’t thought of that. I bet the two of you are working together!

Just kidding… although if both of you were working together, I like the metaphor and symbolism behind that.

173. Opus 111 - February 26, 2009

And I thought Somebody was someone out there… Oh well!

Elena: But if she doesn’t come back here to prove that she’s genuine, I can assure you that she’s still a member and probably isn’t even a she You should probably say: I can only speculate that she might still be a member… “I can assure you” reminds me of the “I promise you” (we shall all go to paradise, angels are in the room right now, C-Influence tells me…)

174. Yesri Baba - February 26, 2009

Please! Nobody and no one are all different people!

175. X-ray - February 26, 2009

‘170. elena – February 26, 2009
He is the only one who has been directing it for thirty-five years. He is responsible for everything that happens inside including the damages on people’s lives directly or indirectly connected to the Fellowship.’

That’s the point, Elena, and let’s keep it at that.

176. Mick Danger - February 26, 2009

I wasn’t going to say anything butt…

“Love can be blind, selfish, greedy, ignorant, but love with understanding can be none of these things.”

Nobody understands.

177. brucelevy - February 26, 2009

178. Yesri Baba - February 26, 2009

179. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 27, 2009

177: Thanks! Made me belly laugh!!!

180. The FOFion - February 27, 2009

Burton Fires Buttheadia After Security Gaffes

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Fellowship Chief Executive Guru Robert Earl Burton fired FOF Security Chief Antonio “Butthead” Buttheadia after almost all of the FOF’s assets were sent to an unknown offshore account by hackers earlier this week.

“He’s been released by Influence C,” Burton said.

Buttheadia, despite his release, is steadfastly loyal to Burton.

“Some of these exaggerations by former members are outrageous,” Buttheadia said. “Come on; it’s not thousands of guys. Let’s not be ridiculous. It’s in the several hundreds.”

181. Panorea - February 27, 2009

Anecdote from friend who left the cult a year and a half ago:

Mr. D: I still have little piles of daily cards (he was about 18 years “in”, so lots of cards to play with…)

Q: What do you do with all of them? I threw away mine.

Mr. D (who is really the “recycling type”!) I use them for shopping lists. They are the perfect format and the quality of the paper is pretty good. Only sometimes I turned them and my eyes fall on the message. I am in shock in front of the counter. How on earth did I believe all that nonsense?

182. battlesword - February 27, 2009

Take the fruit, the leaves and the wood
There is no defence,
It can all be used

You take the fruit,
It is for taking,
You burn the wood,
It is for burning,
You kill and build
It is for killing and building.

The hero defends him self
Until he gives him self up
Then there’s more fruit and wood.
Nothing to defend,
Nothing to attack,
Like the tree.

183. Kid Shelleen - February 27, 2009

The Prairie Dog, unlike the Fellowship of Friends, never disappoints.

Also, good to see fictitious enlightened person Jed McKenna’s poetry here. I read his book, “Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damndest Thing.” It was a hoot, as Bill Hicks used to say, and actually gave me some things to think about. Can’t ask for more than that from a book, can you?

Oh, and Leonard Cohen is touring the U.S. this Spring. Catch him if you can.

184. Kid Shelleen - February 27, 2009

Hey, I just realized that the first sentence of my last post is actually haiku. Who knew?

185. Yesri Baba - February 27, 2009

183 Kid Shelleen

He’s the Carlos Casteneda of the corn fields. Definitely a hoot.

186. times are a changin - February 27, 2009

Beware –
R1, R2 visa holders & Foreign students waiting to come to Apollo on the Religious visa program & Young men who would like to come in the heart of the school (RB’s mouth) as a career move.
With membership falling there are only a certain number of ‘Minister Positions available. The ‘Minister Position’ involves standing in front of the supplicant ‘Goddess in an Old Man’s Body’ and having your semen sucked out of your testes by way of your penis.

Non-Minister Category of Special Immigrant Religious Workers to Expire On March 06, 2009

On February 04, 2009, USCIS issued a reminder that the provisions for non-minister special immigrant religious workers will expire on March 06, 2009. Individuals applying under the non-minister category of the program, including family members, must either adjust status to permanent resident or be admitted with an immigrant visa before March 6, 2009. The expiring category covers special immigrant religious workers in professional or non-professional capacities within a religious vocation or occupation, but does not include those workers entering the United States solely to carry on the vocation of a minister of a religious denomination. Without a Congressional extension of the expiration date, USCIS will, beginning on March 6, 2009, reject any Form I-360, and will discontinue any further processing of pending Form I-360, Form I-485, and Form I-824 affected by the expiration date until further notice.

187. lauralupa - February 27, 2009

yesri and kid, thanks for introducing me to Jed McKenna.
lotsa love

188. fofblogmoderator - February 27, 2009

186 is newly moderated

189. nigel harris price - February 27, 2009

186 times are a changin

Sounds like the trouble I had with my H-1 visa back in the 80’s, where an incompetent lawyer and unscrupulous employers messed me up! Needless to say, it was not about ‘skills in short supply in the USA’ but about money, or the shortage of which you were being paid! Then the FOF took most of the remainder of what you were left with!…..Nigel.

190. brucelevy - February 27, 2009

FOF email sent to members:

Our Teacher has requested that serious “students” make an extra donation this month to help bring one of Europe’s finest and most refined entertainers to our beautiful property for this year’s Journey Through Horse Shit.

thank you dearests,

Princess sparkle toes

here is a clip of the school’s new treasure who will perform in front of our “David”.

191. brucelevy - February 27, 2009

One of the special powersyou can expect from correct and prolonged performance of The Sequence.

192. Yesri Baba - February 27, 2009

190 Bruce

Shit man! You almost made do a Mama Cass with my ham sandwhich.

193. Yesri Baba - February 27, 2009


And as a bonus for your super efforts there will be a Sunday matinee-

194. Yesri Baba - February 27, 2009

195. battlesword - February 27, 2009

Life begins
Like a white blossoming flower
Each day

A pink kiss
on your lips
for each dawn
for each fall.

196. ton - February 28, 2009

yesri 194 or thereabouts….

thanks for the reminding ‘us’ that ‘life is a mighty joke’ as ‘wee’ run through the graveyard:

…running through the graveyard
we laughed my friends and I
we swore we’d be together
until the day we died
until the day we died….

… the fields are soft and green
it’s memories that I’m stelaing
but you’re innocent when you dream
when you dream you’re innocent when you dream

197. elena - February 28, 2009

What seems so difficult to compute is that in a place like the Fellowship people are induced to hurt them selves and others convinced that they are doing something to awaken.

When one accepts that one was willing to hurt one’s daughter or parents or allow for any young man to be sexually abused, under the influence of the Fellowship, it is not difficult to understand why it is a dangerous place. Why and how, ultimately, people hurt each other. Is that what is so difficult to accept? Is that what people would like to avoid and find a scapegoat to release them from their responsibility? Even Robert can be a scapegoat because although he is the main responsible, it was each one of us who assumed the task of carrying out his wishes. That is what makes the Fellowship so dangerous. On his own, Robert could not have managed so much damage. The problem is not one of blame but of responsibility.

When someone is willing to harm a person he or she loves, justified by no matter what authority, the social order has turned so badly against itself that someone needs to stop it. Whether we are those people or not is what remains to be seen. For me, if we were the ones willing to set it up, it is our responsibility to close it down but maybe outside help is needed and it will resolve itself in a different way.

198. nigel harris price - February 28, 2009

197 elena

Sociopathy – ‘illness of society’. Have we not described REB as a sociopath? And maybe this is how we can describe the FOF as a cult rather than a group dedicated to awakening. Gurdjieff stated “First, you have to become normal, then you can hope to become super-normal.” The trouble with the FOF is that it paraded itself as a ‘rich persons’ country club’ (Steve), whereas, as we all know now, even if we did not know then, there is all manner of subterfuge – people putting pressure on other people unnesseccarily – and then REB at the centre of it all (we have heard more than enough of his goings-on!). Elena, I think you have opened up a topic which would be the central focus of anything that would bring REB, GH and all the other enablers to trial. Just remember, they will go to any lengths not to have their false personalities exposed, and this is what a trial would do…..Nigel.

199. nigel harris price - February 28, 2009

With the FOF, awakening goes ‘out the window’…..Nigel.

200. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 28, 2009

#197: Good post. Thanks, Elena.

201. andrew - February 28, 2009

Are there any people out there that want to band together to put an end to this cult.

Can any one tell me were they meet in Toronto

202. nigel harris price - February 28, 2009

201 andrew

The trouble is – how to. Many have mentioned that there are ways in which the FOF is not breaking the law and yet there are things in the way
it operates that should not be allowed on a humanitarian level. If we ‘band together’ it should be to consult with a lawyer, such as Mr Ford Greene of Hub Law Offices in San Anselmo, California, to see what can actually be ‘levelled against’ the FOF and its chief perpetrators of injustice…..Nigel.

203. elena - February 28, 2009

Nigel, I don’t know if anyone will ever go to trial. It is clear no one here wishes to hurt anybody. More than judging and putting people on trial (and if that is necessary to stop the Fellowship, hopefully it will come), it is about realizing that there is a something going on that is too much like a crime to not deal with it. People have hurt themselves badly and they will continue to hurt themselves if it is not stopped but stopping it is not about doing more harm than has already been done. From the beginning we spoke about the blog not being an act of revenge and it is wonderful to keep it that way.

Andrew, we can put our names up here or where ever and when there is enough people to act, then the difficult part will start! Here we’ve just been trying to understand what the Fellowship of Friends is about. Hopefully there are people here who are prepared to give that fight how ever it can be given. All many of us have is some moral and economic support. Here we are learning! It’s been a great lesson.

Thank you Suzy, it fills me with joy to get through at last in what ever degree! Thank you again for all the pruning!

204. nigel harris price - February 28, 2009

203 elena

I think it is your wish not to harm any still in the FOF any more than they have been harmed already. I think it is a matter of disentanglement that we on the blog are after. Too many in the FOF have had a ‘field day’ at the cost of the ‘innocents’ (I am sure you, more than any other person, know who they are). I’m sorry, Elena, but justice is justice. Why the petition, for God’s sake?! Do you have any other suggestions? To paraphrase the Bible: “They shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall set them free”…..Nigel.

205. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 28, 2009

#204: Too many in the FOF have had a ‘field day’ at the cost of the ‘innocents’ (I am sure you, more than any other person, know who they are). I’m sorry, Elena, but justice is justice.

Nigel: You are assuming these people know what they are doing and intentionally instill harm. Getting even just keeps the cycle going. If you want to quote the Bible, ‘Forgive them for they know not what they do.’

206. nigel harris price - February 28, 2009


Seems like a contradiction in terms – striving for consciousness and not knowing what you do?!…..Nigel.

207. Yesri Baba - February 28, 2009

206 nigel

“Seems like a contradiction in terms – striving for consciousness…”

Sho does.

208. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 28, 2009

The way I understand this myself is that there are different ‘levels of consciousness’ and ‘levels of understanding’ and I don’t see any contradictions at all.

209. elena - February 28, 2009

The only one who’s had a field day in the Fellowship is Robert, if you can call the misery of his life style a field day. Everybody else that I’ve seen is just thoroughly brainwashed and having no fun but convinced they are doing their duty even though they don’t even know to whom. It is a strange thing. It’s an imaginary duty to themselves and Influence C and of course Robert in whom we, that is, those who believed in him, put so much trust. It is as if his being able to rely on us (when I was part of that) gave me some sort of credibility in my own eyes and something to live for. But of course, that is just another aspect of idolatry. Blindness, dependence, immaturity, fear, lack of trust in one’s self is much closer to reality.

210. andrew - March 1, 2009

See what I do not understand, is why the ex members here will not attempt to put an end to this cult. Robert is one man yes a man and not a very good one at that he prays on the weak.
Why are you afraid of him, what power does he hold over you.
Like any other old man he is weak if you choose to be strong
Andrew Clough I am not afriad of using my name

211. brucelevy - March 1, 2009


There is a recent published photo of Princess Sparkle Toes on the Greater Fellowship. It was posted by a woman who says she’s from England, was never a member and has never been to the property.

It’s fucking Bizarre.

212. brucelevy - March 1, 2009

210. andrew

Actually Andrew, we’ve discussed this fairly frequently and in depth. We have a petition in progress that will ultimately be sent to governmental agencies. While, from the outside, the FOF exists as a valid church entity (we all know it’s not) we’ve had to approach affecting it from several different angles. The petition, this blog, the Greater Fellowship site, Elena and Ames picketed the property with signs that made it fairly clear what is going on inside. Newspapers have been following our efforts. There is a video in process that the early stage is now available.

We’re not standing idly by and letting this shit continue. We’re putting as much information out there for members as we are able. Those that have questions know we exist and that the information is right here. One can’t force them to leave “a church” , they have to do it on their own. There are those that would never leave, they feed at the trough of power, greed, narcissism and total lack of conscience (psychopaths).

There are good people there, and real shits. Until we can entice the authorities to take a closer look, this is what we can do as a group. As individuals, many are also doing stuff on one to one basis. I understand your frustration, but we’ve been frustrated for far longer than you, trust me.

213. Jomo Piñata - March 1, 2009

Andrew, three questions:

See what I do not understand, is why the ex members here will not attempt to put an end to this cult.

1. What makes you think you would know about it, if such an attempt were going on?

2. What makes you think such an attempt is not going on?

3. Finally, what would you suggest “to put an end to this cult”?

214. elena - March 1, 2009

Are we really doing all we can? Will the petition have any effect with such few signatures? X-ray said recently that there is enough for a class action suit, is there anyone behind that seriously?

How many are we when you say that we are not standing idly Bruce?
How many are willing to do more than talk? I know it is difficult to do more than talk but are there really ten willing to do more than talk? Twenty? Would twenty be enough for a class action suit? Is there a lawyer that would take this case?

Does anyone know roughly how many members are left? How many keep joining in other countries and the States? How many still in centers with money? In the Greater Fellowship, the eight hundred plus are mostly members who left in the past four years or do we have a big number of members who left a long time ago?

You have no idea how difficult it is for me to think about this kind of act seriously knowing it would affect Girard’s life so deeply if the Fellowship actually closed down. I know I’ve worked for such thing for the past two years but the thought of affecting his life so deeply is not easy to swallow. Many tragedies could come from this and it is difficult to push it through. Are we willing to face that? Am I?

I suppose for many of you it is not only a husband but people with whom you’ve shared decades of your life. It is extremely difficult to look at the suffering that many of those people would experience.
When I think about the suffering those people are already experiencing even though members like Girard think there is no other possible better life than what he has, it is easier to go ahead with this. When I think about anyone who will not join the Fellowship for even one day, it is very easy to go ahead with this. All the men that will not be touched by Robert, the women that won’t disappear in a world of half men, half non women without children or children they want to touch with their old dirty hands, or children they have to disappear from their vicinity because they are too disturbed by their presence, then it is extremely easy to go ahead with this.

I do not know how much the men who’ve been used by Robert have suffered, but if they have suffered half what I’ve made my daughter suffer then I am more than willing to go ahead with what ever is necessary to stop the Fellowship from hurting more people.

The real problem is that the most harmed people by the Fellowship are still inside. They cannot leave it and think as we do because it would drive them crazy to think that they’ve suffered so much unnecessarily, that they’ve made it all up and ruined their lives as much as many others. We are in an extremely difficult situation. People matter, people matter tremendously. How can one chose who not to harm? The answer is obvious but there is nothing easy about it. How could we ever manage this with the least possible harm?

215. veramente - March 1, 2009

124 I’ll Never Tell

“….The traveler filled the water bowl and took a long drink himself, then he gave some to the dog. When they were full, he and the dog walked back toward the man who was standing by the tree. ‘What do you call this place?’ the traveler asked. ‘This is Heaven,’ he answered. ‘Well, that’s confusing,’ the traveler said. ‘The man down the road said that was Heaven, too.’ ‘Oh, you mean the place with the gold street and pearly gates? Nope. That’s Hell.’ ‘Doesn’t it make you mad for them to use your name like that?’ ‘No, we’re just happy that they screen out the folks who would leave their best friends behind.’”
awesome! thank you.

216. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

214 elena

They are hurt if you do, hurt if you don’t. The point is – does the FOF have a right to exist, when we have exposed what it does to people?…..Nigel.

217. Ill Never Tell - March 1, 2009

210. andrew:

‘Robert is one man yes a man and not a very good one at that he prays on the weak.’

Freudian slip there, my friend, perhaps you meant: ‘he preys on the weak.’ You, too, have succumbed to religious terminology and influence.

Surely, the likely outcome of legal action against the person of Robert Earl Burton, at this stage in time or later, could be a judgment that includes these words: ‘by reason of mental disease or defect.’ Senile dementia, anyone? Feigning insanity would be as easy as the ‘piece of cake’ that the insanity of the last 40 years has been. [Marie Antoinette said, in the decadence of French aristocracy that helped precipitate the French revolution, ‘Let them eat cake.’ Like the kool-aid at Jonestown, there could be a sudden change of circumstances. And, as many as possible will eat the cake of insanity; or say, ‘Just following orders.’]

Possible sentence: house arrest in the Galleria.

218. Bares Reposting - March 1, 2009

Greater Fellowship Discussion:
The FOF [Fellowship of Friends] distortions of the 4th way:

Reply by N. & A. G_lb_rt on September 6, 2008 at 11:40pm

The one-line answer: Burton using the idea of 4 centers does not make his teaching a true teaching by any means.

Where, O where to begin? You are going to need months of full-time study to catalog all the distortions, misunderstandings and deviations! Here are some random examples to get you started…

• Of course, the whole damned thing (wrongly called a ‘teaching’) is a travesty, because the organization was founded on, and is to this day riddled through and through with lies, fairy tales, inventions, distortions, and monuments to Burton’s ego.

• The first big lie was that Burton was qualified to be a teacher at all. His claims are just that, claims, without proof. Here is an example, on just one level. Of the group of six students kicked out with me in 1994, one took it upon herself to find and talk to Alex Horn’s first wife (still in Northern California), and report back to us. His wife remembered Burton quite clearly. She was quite unequivocal about his sexual appetites and the fact that he failed the task set for him by Alex Horn. The task had two parts. The first part was to stop pestering fellow male students for sex. The second was to stop all homosexual activity outside the group, period. He failed at both, and was thrown out. The idea that he ‘surpassed his teacher’ and was later praised by his teacher is laughable. Whether you accept that Alex Horn was a true 4th Way teacher or not (I do not), Burton failed his task completely, and flunked. And, not only is there no lineage through Horn, but Horn has no lineage either. The 4th Way demands a legitimate conscious lineage in order to transmit the necessary information.

• He dazzled Bonita (his first follower), then had sex with her, then lied about that. He continued the lie by claiming celibacy (except of course when forcing himself on his heterosexual sex partners) until he could no longer deny it (about 1984-5). He doubled the lie by claiming that homosexuality prevented evolution, and by making homosexual non-practice an absolute task, not only for those first dozen years, but for several years after he was exposed as homosexual to the laity. He tripled the lie, setting new records for hypocrisy, when one man he raped had the courage to stand up at a meeting and denounce Burton. Burton interrupted, calling the young man not only a liar, but delusional, and claimed again that he was celibate. The young man received no support, or even questions from the audience, and left the FoF directly from that meeting. (I was not there, but Stella W., who was present, told me about it in 1998. She also emphasized that she absolutely believed Burton, just as all the other followers present at the time apparently did). My point is, the organization was riddled with corruption from the beginning. Even the initially beautiful things were underlain with this corrupt foundation, and hence inevitably became corrupted.

• In 1994, Burton was asked, “What is the purpose of conscience?”, and replied with these words, “Conscience is just a collection of “I”s; anyone accumulating too much material there should leave the school.” Since it is the purpose of a 4th Way school to wake up conscience, which develops in parallel with consciousness, Burton thereby shows himself to be the low charlatan he is, and that he has neither consciousness or conscience. This is probably one of the most important deviations from the 4th Way, one which cannot be overemphasized.

• The claim that ‘C-Influence’ is some power external to one. The Church of Burton linked this distortion to the ’44 angels’ and so on, that they are his helpers (or, depending on occasion, vice-versa). On the contrary, the 4th Way says that C-Influence is the transmission of higher knowledge through a teacher. The implication is that this would be orally or by example. The idea of 44 angels or any other external co-teachers is inimical to the 4th Way.

• The claim that he is a personal intermediary between his followers and ‘C-Influence’. That he is necessary to his followers’ evolution, and the only person on the planet who can be so. This has nothing to do with the 4th Way. The only part of this claim which might be valid is if he was is a transmitter of higher knowledge—and of course only if he were a true teacher. The 4th Way emphasizes that one’s evolution is personal, that no one can do the work for another.

• The claim that it takes many lifetimes to awaken, and that one must somehow follow him through those many lifetimes. This is another set of lies, based on a gross distortion of some theories put forward by Ouspensky in a couple of his books. For a start, these were only personal thought experiments, secondly, they cannot possibly be verified—only one’s present life can be verified. Coupled to this lie in Burton’s fantasy is another; that giving up one’s will to Burton is pretty much permanent, at least for several lifetimes. The 4th Way emphasizes that giving up one’s will to a teacher is strictly temporary; just long enough for the student to see the difference between morality and conscience, and to build up trust in conscience as the true guide. The central point of the 4th Way is to truly individuate and take real responsibility for oneself. This means it is critical to separate from the teacher and graduate from his or her school. Burton teaches the opposite; he teaches his followers to fear or adore him. This means that instead of the teacher pointing the way, the teacher has become the destination—in exact opposition to the 4th Way.

• Connected intimately with the above is the claim that the ends justifies the means. This basic misunderstanding also highlights and proves Burton’s lack of knowledge, being, and conscience, and any of his followers who believe the same. An awakening conscience understands that the ends never justify the means, that the means shape the ends. And a careful study of the law of three and the law of seven, keys to understanding the 4th Way, also shows this clearly, at whatever level one chooses to concentrate on.

• The claim that no follower can awaken in a female body. This is also closely linked to another of Burton’s personal inventions, Feminine Dominance. The 4th Way may sometimes refer, in different words, to the ‘cultural soup’ we all swim in, but even that was distorted by Burton to become a personal weapon against women generally (reducing them, simply because of their gender, to second-class citizens simply because of the fact that they are usually the first contact an infant has with culture), and against men in the particular (“Having sex with me is the best way to overcome Feminine Dominance, dear”).

• The claim that having sex with him is an important aid to evolution. Not only is there nothing like this in the 4th Way, after much research I have found no verifiable record of sex with a teacher ever actually having any advantage, while there are literally thousands of testimonies about the detrimental effects of sexual abuse of power by leaders within recognized religions as well as innumerable cults. Connected with this, the 4th Way categorically claims that anyone who is sexually abnormal cannot progress further. Whether you believe that homosexuality itself is an impediment or not, Burton plainly suffers from satyriasis, uses force, and is a sexual pervert incapable of normal, loving relationships. We know this because he has never had any. He may speak words about love, but he cannot act from love.

• The ‘impressions octave’. While an important aspect of the 4th Way, this has been distorted and misunderstood in an almost lunatic fashion by Burton. First, the ‘impressions’ he gathers are usually the result of greed. That is, owning them is the most important factor; his collections are always impelled by his greed (by one definition, this is pornography). This is especially true of his collection of young men, of course. But the excesses, the hundreds of suits, pairs of shoes, cars and so on have little or nothing to do with the 4th Way ideas of impressions or their usage. Another way of seeing the lack of consciousness connected with his collections is that he does not allow enough resources to maintain them. Ranging from whole groves of orange trees lost to frost, to hundreds of acres of vines abandoned, huge monetary losses as valuable antiques are ruined, the list is very long.

• Verifications are central to the 4th Way. Burton has substituted faith for verification at almost every turn, above all faith in him, his predictions, his actions, and in his high being. Almost nothing he says or claims is verifiable. Here is an example. The 4th Way says that before a person can became a man number five, he must replace himself with a man number four, and so on. The gap between the supposed man number 7.8 and the supposed man number 5, Girard Haven, exposes the giant fallacy for what it is, just another fantasy. In reality, Burton is at a very low level, and having established a thrall over his followers, has made them infantile dependents.

Tatyana, you can see where this is going. EVERYTHING about Burton is suspect, because he is an abject slave to his desires, and has woven a fantasy world to help support his desires. So EVERYTHING about the Fellowship is suspect, because the followers, in their neediness, have agreed to enter and support his fantasy, and so are also slaves to his desires. This is not to say that the efforts of the followers may not sometimes bear fruit; if they take responsibility for their efforts, and refuse to dedicate the fruit of their efforts to him, some independence may arise; however, the mechanisms of the Fellowship soon align to remove such irritants. It is very difficult to achieve correct results when the basic fact is—Burton prefers to keep his followers dependent and asleep.

*** End of quotation ***

219. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

214 elena referring to 218 Bares Reposting

You see, Elena, this why the FOF must, at least, be ‘officially investigated’ The core, REB, is rotten and always has been, since the inception of the FOF…..Nigel.

220. Panorea - March 1, 2009

I am not interested in closing down the Fellowship. I personally think if you force things they do not come to you (very general I know, but I leave it like this at the moment).

Have signed the petition and if I see how difficult it is to become a “normal human being” and come to your senses after being in a Cult, I think signing the petition for many is a slow process. But there are many names and they are growing.

Two of my friends left the last two weeks.

And they have been many who have started to take their common sense seriously and have started breathing again. They will also leave one day.

Informing people of what one has experienced and knows is a key issue. It helps one utter what has been going on in their lives and helps other to see how much they have been hurting themselves.

For me the Fellowship has offered a very subtle psychological abuse. For others the abuse was direct and for all senses. My heart goes out to those people who have suffered a very silent and painful abuse.

Had I known this madness was called “awakening” when I joined, I would have never joined. So, I feel I need to speak out for the ones who play with the idea of joining this particular Cult. And I hope my voice will be heard by the ones who are still “in” and struggle with whatever bits and pieces of conscience they have left.

But, by admitting the damage, I help myself to be real.

221. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

218 Bares Reposting

That quote about ‘loving relationships’ – I wonder how many FOF members have/had normal loving relationships with their parents. In my own experience, my parents were always expressing fear about my connection with the FOF (not the least about it financially ‘ripping me off’) and were there for me when the ‘exit’ came (even though I was at the somewhat mature age of 32). When I saw relationships forming in the FOF, although I could not put it in words, it would seem obvious to me that features were involved, or else attempting to placate the ‘immigration trap’. Whenever I would make ‘romantic advances’ there was almost always a case of ‘A loves B and B loves C’ (by becoming interested in a FOF woman, I could almost guarantee that she would become attached to another student). I wish everyone well, who has found a stable and, shall we say, normal relationship, both in or out of the FOF…..Nigel.

222. Panorea - March 1, 2009

218. Bares Reposting – March 1, 2009

Thanks for Re-posting.


223. Craig Dockter - March 1, 2009

Burton can and must be exposed. A small group of us exposed
Donald Walters (kriyananda) of Ananda in Nevada City.

Of course we had the very best lawyers:
Michael Flynn & Ford Greene.

Check it out:

224. Someone - March 1, 2009

In almost 40 years and thousands of students passing through the FOF, there were three suicide cases. Two of members and one of former member.

Kevin Kelly was speaking of suicide years before he killed himself. I knew him personally since1984. He once told RB that he wanted to end his life and Robert very actively told him that it is would be the worst crime one can do and that such act will end his evolving possibilities.

Kevin told me all that personally.

Once Kevin asked a question “How can one use one’s teacher as an example?” and Robert said “My dear I use you as an example every day.”

Unlike what is written here, Kevin’s situation was not stable at all and his physical condition was driving him crazy.

The most sharp and out loud statement RB has ever made was against suicide.

The FOF is not for me anymore so I left and I will not be back. Yet, ascribing those three suicides to the FOF is an evil act by a bunch of some liars here.

225. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

215 veramente

Christ said – “Behold, the Kingdom of Heaven is within.”

I seem to remember Arthur posting that ‘heaven’ actually has its root in the (Greek?) word for ‘state’. Why were we so willing to be ‘sold’ a gold-alchemy earthly environment on the outside with politicking and corruption on its inside? I fully understand that many are suffering their ‘separation pangs’ on recently having left the FOF but, believe me, there is a whole world of human beauty and dignity to be experienced after some time.

226. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

223 someone

I think you might like to know what can precipitate a suicide attempt.
I was not a stable person in the FOF, having several phases of my bi-
polar disorder, and only being stable now thanks to prescribed medication. However, when one is told that ‘leaving the School will
lead to eternal damnation’ and then running out of money ‘to chuck
at the Fellowship coffers’, the ‘downside’ of bi-polar can make one
cast judgement on oneself to such an extent that one actually does
try to take one’s own life. I am grateful, however, that my life was
saved by a student who is now an ex-member. Should you believe
that the FOF is only for ‘strong people’, I would suggest you dwell on
St Paul’s words – “When I am weak, then I am strong”…..Nigel.

227. X-ray - March 1, 2009

‘201. andrew – February 28, 2009
Are there any people out there that want to band together to put an end to this cult.’

The wars of 21st Century are informational. Just keep talking.

‘223. Someone – March 1, 2009
Yet, ascribing those three suicides to the FOF is an evil act by a bunch of some liars here.’

Obviously you stupid.

228. Someone - March 1, 2009

226. X-ray – March 1
You are one of the biggest liars here.

229. Someone - March 1, 2009

225. nigel harris price,

OK, but why ascribe one’s own weakness to the FOF.

I have been there for years and no one has ever put any pressure on me. I always felt that if I did not not want to do something I could simply say NO and I said NO many times.

Apollo is a great place to live with wonderful people and if the FOF wouldn’t have become a strange religion, I would probably be there today.

There are more ex-students who left with less hard feelings like I did and there is room for them here as well.

230. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

226 X-ray

I am sure how many of us here on the blogsite would be surprised how many current FOF members read the posts and how affected they are (whether they stay in or come out). I am one of those ‘out’ who has found both conscience and consciousness (in the way it was meant by by O and G)…..Nigel.

231. Wouldnt You Like To Know - March 1, 2009

226. X-ray:

‘The wars of 21st Century are informational. Just keep talking.’

True, and also, the wars of 21st Century are economic/financial.

232. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

228 someone

Actually, bi-polar is not a weakness. It is a disorder of experiencing very high and very low states. And, have you forgotten, – the money issue (and it IS a pressure) is NOT one of JUST SAYING NO! You run out of money and you are OUT!…..Nigel.

233. Wouldnt You Like To Know - March 1, 2009

Madness in great ones must not unwatch’d go.

William Shakespeare

234. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

232 Wouldnt You Like To Know

That’s one that takes more than a brief thinking about!…..Nigel.

235. elena - March 1, 2009

Someone and everyone in the Fellowship like Someone who suffers from amnesia and alzheimer’s,

Why would you have any hard feelings if you were allowed to boss people around in a kitchen and give them photographs about their petty standards because they took hot water from the tap? As the enabler that you paint yourself why would you be willing to acknowledge more than three suicides? Wouldn’t one suicide on Robert’s hands be enough to justify stopping him? How many do you need to justify it? With what kind of voyeurism and morbidity do you need to look at more than one person’s suffering to understand that the Fellowship of Friends Cult needs to be stopped?

And you are already denying Aileen C. who hit her car against every post she could find every time she got into a car and the many others who have attempted suicide in the Fellowship of which I who am an ignorant about these stories, already know of five including the flower lady today, Nigel and Heather N, who put a bullet up her head in case you wish to minimize that as a suicide.

Of course, while bossing people around in the kitchen, you never had time to find out about anything else in the Fellowship and although there are already 62 pages exposing the horrors of the Fellowship here you are not willing to acknowledge more than two suicides. You truly are a gem of the Fellowship of Friends: the perfect member who will rejoin sooner than you know because all those inside are just like you: people willing to deny the truth no matter how many more people get hurt.

And just so that you don’t become contagious let us remember what you want to forget:

1. All the children that have been harmed by the Fellowship because in their parents eyes they were nothing but biological accidents.
2. All the men who had to become feminine passive submitted creatures on call for when ever Robert desires them.
3. All the women who had to annihilate their feminity and become money making machines for Robert.
4. All the young people who think life is a Cinderella story in which they can waltz themselves from one Gucci uniform to another even if they or their husband or their friends are getting raped by Robert.
5. All the old people that after thirty years in the Fellowship are told to go to an old people’s home and be taken care by the six billion dead people on the planet who suddenly become the bearers of the Fellowship’s wastes.
6. All the money people have lost to eighty-dollar socks and trips to Europe for the boys so that they are more willing to participate in the next orgy.
7. All the money lost in Robert’s excesses.

To understand the harms that the Fellowship imposes on people you need enough subtlety and common sense to realize that a community in which one child is not allowed to participate in her full presence in her parents community harms everyone in the community. The Fellowship of Friends in Oregon House is not just a Cult but a community of people with severe limitations. No one, ever, can justify the damages to any of the individuals of a cult or any other institution for that matter, on the basis of its doctrine. If a doctrine or a policy hurts any of the members of no matter what community, then the doctrine and the policy are not human enough to sustain. It is the misuse of religion and politics what allows people to justify hurting others.

The Fellowship cult is a crippled society in which Robert is the only actor. It is the impositions on their social and personal life what harms each member as an individual and as a social being and this is managed by submission to Robert’s doctrine, which, practically looked at, is the imposition of his lifestyle on each one of the members. We are not talking about a teaching into higher realms, we are talking about a miscarriage into lower realms.

The environment of the Fellowship weakens member’s sense of themselves and what is good for them. The separation between the human and the divine allows for multiple inhuman standards justified by the pursuit of the divine. It is not only the body what the Fellowship neglects in its theory, but the physical and everything human with it. Members convince themselves of the noble aims that they are struggling for while they deny practical reality. They see in Robert the divine being, not the manipulator who asks them to divorce, to leave their children, to not study while they are young enough to travel with him; To submit sexually to a goddess, to give him every dime they make; To never contradict him or speak their word; To not acknowledge those who are suffering and about to commit suicide.

Just that one sentence in which he asks members to neglect those who are suffering should be enough to close the Fellowship down but here we intend to continue playing with words because information is the way we are going to stop people from joining?
Well, Robert is so successful that members as much as ex-members are willing to buffer the harm the Fellowship is doing. The sick people inside matter so much, that stopping the Fellowship is the only way to help them because they are too damaged to help them selves. “A man who gets used to eating mud goes mad if you try to stop him” but ex-members are still so brainwashed that although they know these people are on a slow process of self destruction at the service of a narcissistic sociopath, they are afraid of assuming responsibility for it. Robert is the winner with that attitude. Continue to serve him if you wish in or out but don’t count me in to help the Fellowship continue to hurt people. It must be stopped and doing it with as little harm as possible is a strong must.

The only thing that stopping the Fellowship would interfere with is Robert and the inner circle’s agenda. Then they could carry on with their lives. Only the individual fantasy and the cult would be stopped. That hurts the agenda but helps the members. We would not have to abandon them after the Fellowship closed, we could still help them enormously if they allowed. We are not going anywhere, what stops us from being here now as much as then?

236. Jomo Piñata - March 1, 2009


Kevin’s situation was not stable at all

Of course it was not stable with all those artificial demands for money and to uproot his life and reestablish it in Oregon House.

In almost 40 years and thousands of students passing through the FOF, there were three suicide cases. Two of members and one of former member.

Let see. I know of four. Lore Fisher-Smith, Brian Sisler, Kevin Kelly, and (according to Bruce) Kimo Beech. But that’s just me, I’ve been out for a quarter of a century. Doubtless there are more. Every time you talk about them, you tell us your conclusion that linking the suicides to the Fellowship is an act of malicious liars. However, I don’t understand your reasoning. Best as I can tell, when you talked about Kevin Kelly, you looked at what Burton said, but ignored what he did:

1. He created an artificial crisis consisting of an impending cataclysm, and demanded that people uproot their lives in anticipation of that artificial crisis.
2. He created insane monetary demands for no reason other than to reproduce the Beverly Hills Country Club in a poor, rural, remote county of the Gold Country.
3. He created a culture of emotional cutoff in which former members were ostracized.
4. He created a culture of narcissistic selfishness in which blindness to others’ emotional needs was the norm.
5. He stigmatized asking for help if one had suicidal thoughts.

I could go on but I think you must get the point. My question for you is, why do you look at what Burton says, but not at what Burton does?

237. Jomo Piñata - March 1, 2009

Actually five. Charles Forline.

238. Panorea - March 1, 2009


stop nagging about your space here. You have your space here as everyone else. And yes, this is not a neutral ground. So, if people leave a Cult and keep on saying that the headquarters were a fine place to be and the “teacher”, who has been showing his evil sides to so many people, is a fine man, you will get reactions. What are you trying to do? Are you trying to present the Fellowship as a paradise that only bothered you when it started taking the form of a “religion”?

Fine, this is your illusion or reality. Call it whatever you like. I think you are squeezing your little head deeper in the sand.

I do not know anything about the suicide issues that have come up. I did not know the individuals. The only memory I have is the announcement of K’s death at the center whose part I was at that time. It was not an official announcement and only after the meeting some “older” students mentioned that his funeral was not going to be at Apollo. More than this, I do not know.

It only puzzles me when I read your account about Robert’s reaction to someone telling them they want to end their lives. K. must have been desperate and if someone really cared about him, they would have directed them to a professional who is trained to work with agonized individuals. That’s what I had to do in the occasions I had of people who confessed their suicide thoughts (this is related to my professional life).

What an example of a conscious compassion is that of Robert Burton’s telling an individual who is about to take their own life that if they do it, they will be punished by losing any possibility of evolution. Great psychological thinking here and a great thought to share with someone who sounds as if they have lost everything anyway.

239. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

234 to 237

Whuee! Thank God I do not have to represent myself alone against this idiot ‘someone’!…..Nigel.

240. sharon - March 1, 2009

Someone – how is it that you can write as well as a native American speaker in one post and in another as poorly as any non-English speaker I’ve seen? I understand the merits and use of spell-checking, yet your grammar somehow miraculously improves also, and grammar-check is usually not very accurate. What gives?

241. More history needed? - March 1, 2009

Please Someone of if have courage go and talk with mental health in Grass valley and Yuba city.

You will be surprised how “professionals” perceive the fellowship of friends.

242. ton - March 1, 2009

Someone 223:

“Kevin Kelly was speaking of suicide years before he killed himself. I knew him personally since1984. He once told RB that he wanted to end his life and Robert very actively told him that it is would be the worst crime one can do and that such act will end his evolving possibilities…. The most sharp and out loud statement RB has ever made was against suicide.”

around 1981-82 i lived with kevin and did some work for him in exchange for rent at that place he owned just off the property.

speaking of lies, telling kevin ‘very actively’ that CHOOSING to take HIS OWN life ‘would be the worst crime one can do and that such an act will end his evolving possibilities…’ this line of bullshit is yet another example of mind-control and manipulation of the sheep…. it’s the same psychological trick that’s employed in that bullshit about leaving ‘the school’ and ‘going to the moon.’

obviously it was ALWAYS kevin’s OWN CHOICE to end his life, the manipulation, the deceit, and the mindfuck employed in this case ignorines kevin’s unique circumstances and situation. kevin ‘believed’ in the ‘advice’ and ‘advisor’ and so was controled by the same. (suicide as ‘taboo’ has archetypal levels of social conditioning connected to the idea / act… this pablum / hogwash about ‘the worst crime…. ending evolving possibilities…’ is a variation on a meme, embeded in myriads of social constructs against suicide, this bullshit line by RB reinforces and is reinforced by the taboo nature of the act).

imo, and you can call me a cynic, there is another way of looking at why RB was interested in seeing kevin ‘bravely live on’ (onward christian soldier)… the ‘bottom line’ of kevin’s death implies that he stops making teaching payments and ‘donations.’ my editorial comment on the situation — rather than wisely counseling kevin on the choice to end his own suffering, in order to continue with the fleecing this hasnamus, this spider RB prolonged kevin’s pain-filled existence, god rest his soul.

243. brucelevy - March 1, 2009

“an evil act by a bunch of some liars here.”

liar liar pants on fire

you really are a moron.

244. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

241 ton

Somewhat ‘askance’ to that post, you may know that I was involved in making some ‘holy hardware’ that His Holiness Pope John Paul II used in San Francisco in 1987. During the manufacture of these pieces, I was directed by the Chief Liturgical Designer, who remained an acquaintance after that. He, along with any from the FOF, were subsequently prevented from visiting me in the Psychiatric Wing of the Marin General Hospital after my suicide attempt (only family and business friends were). However, he wrote to me at my parent’s house when I came back to the UK and said “Often great things can await someone after a failed suicide”. That was fairly brave for someone from the Roman Catholic church to say and for very many years I was not able to understand his words. Maybe he knew, in his own way, about how higher forces work? From my experience, I believe that developing patience can be the ‘payment’ that one makes for a role that brings dignity to one’s life and the beauty with which one is connected…..Nigel.

245. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

242 brucelevy

Bruce gets ‘punchy’ with the English language again!…..Nigel.

246. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

243 (continued)

I also remember GH writing to me at my parent’s house when I came back to the UK. He said that I was on a ‘medical leave of absence’ from the FOF and that I could come back and continue when I brought my donation/teaching payment to my first meeting after the leave. He also said that he and I would be changed men when next we met. Having heard tell of his psycho/spiritual decline and knowing that I have grown and matured as a human being, I wonder what that meeting will be like.

247. dick moron - March 1, 2009

Here is another example of Burton’s selfish depravity.
In 1978 or 1980 myself and my wife at the time traveled through Europe with Burton, his entourage and other invited FOF members.
Included in the group was Kevin Kelly. At the time Kevin employed an assistant who was crucial to his daily functions, as Kevin was paralyzed from the neck or shoulders down. This was not an easy job.
So here is what kind, caring Bob decided would be best for Kevin. Instead of Kevin’s professional assistant coming on the trip to Europe, Kevin would pay for a cute, young blond, new student, with no training in health care, to travel with him. Not only did Burton save having to pay the costs of his object of desire, he also placed the young man in an uncomfortable and somewhat humiliating position during the trip. One can imagine the mind-games and manipulation Burton used in bargaining with this man for favors. As I recall, some other student was usually helping Kevin when Burton wanted to ply his charm on this guy.
After this trip, the young man moved into the Blake Cottage (Burton’s frat house) for a very short time before he disappeared one night, never to be seen again.
Just recalling this memory sickens me.

248. Jomo Piñata - March 1, 2009


The most sharp and out loud statement RB has ever made was against suicide.”

“Do not try to save anybody here who tries to commit suicide. They shouldn’t be here. And they will strangle you just as some drowning people drown someone who tries to save them.”

Robert Burton, Via Del Sol Journal, October 26, 1971, at pp. 2-3.

249. Jomo Piñata - March 1, 2009

I guess that statement wasn’t about suicide. It was about suicidal people. They drag you down so don’t try to help them.

250. dick moron - March 1, 2009

Burton used to mention a very early student, who left the FOF and later hanged themselves from a tree at a Greek Theatre in Marin County. Burton crowed this story as another lesson for those thinking of leaving. He loved the obvious analogy of the Greek tragedy etc.
He cared nothing for the person who ended their life so early.

251. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

249 dick moron

Actually, Burton cares for no-one but himself – his favourites are just appendages to his evil features of greed, dominance and lust…..Nigel.

252. eaglette - March 1, 2009

Has anyone contacted authorities re: vulnerable adults–elder abuse–child abuse?
Has anyone concrete evidence of drugging? Prescription abuse?
Alzheimer’s has been mentioned several times in this forum, any knowledge of methods employed to make students more easily parted with their money?
What were the coffee enemas about?
Any knowledge of ongoing federal investigations of the money trail?

I, like Andrew, am interested in an accounting, I urge anyone who witnessed current and past abuses to contact the appropriate authorities.

253. nigel harris price - March 1, 2009

246 dick moron

I was thinking that more of these tales of REB’s ‘mis-conduct’ would encourage those who read the blog, whether they are firmly ‘implanted’
in the FOF, are thinking of leaving or who have left and want to contribute to people’s ‘critical thinking faculty’, to bring their stories into the light,
so that the ‘situation is laid bare’, so to speak…..Nigel.

254. Bares Reposting - March 1, 2009

230. Wouldnt You Like To Know:

226. X-ray:

‘The wars of 21st Century are informational. Just keep talking.’

True, and also, the wars of 21st Century are economic/financial.

& & & & & &

Poverty is the worst form of violence.
Mahatma Gandhi

Fellowship Of Friends is designed to impoverish body and soul of its participants in order to aggrandize one person, in particular, or a few. This is the worst sort of violence.

$ $ $ $ $ $

It is economic warfare, people. Your weapon is the sword – words. Keep up the good front and protect your rears from invasion.

255. ton - March 1, 2009

saw jane campion’s film HOLY SMOKE again last night… harvey keitel plays deprogrammer opposite kate winslet’s role as young brainwashed cultist… some interesting twists and turns to the plot in which she ends up ‘on top’ — the great kate winslet in her birthday suit… joe bob says check it out.

256. James Mclemore - March 1, 2009

Test – new email address

257. fofblogmoderator - March 2, 2009

223 & 252 are newly moderated

258. battlesword - March 2, 2009

To be a child
and experience the unexplained joy,
the ecstasy of being surprised
before the mind labels life
and lets you live.

This brief moment
in which all is well
even if you breathe with difficulty,
Is life.

Your children have grown up and
are out there visiting each other
without you,
Free at last.

This brief moment in which
you know for certain that life is a gift
and you allow your self to appreciate it
with the same delight that you’d “taste” a work of art,
Is life.

There aren’t enough mistakes to make it dark,
and as you forgive your self each day for the many you continue to make in this amazing roundabout in which you’ve forgotten to be,
you discover anew that even with every shade of darkness
the sunset is no less beautiful
or the night, any less welcome.

This brief moment in which there is nothing to fear about the endless night
that you carry inside,
that will carry you outside
is life.

To live to die
To die to live
To be.

259. X-ray - March 2, 2009

Do you know Daily Cardifuck?
You two could make a couple.

260. lauralupa - March 2, 2009

250 dick moron
And let’s not forget the disgraceful attitude that Burton instills in his followers about any misfortune that happens to ex-followers.
I personally heard some “students” commenting with a certain satisfaction and a lot of self-righteousness about a very serious illness contracted by my ex-center director after she left the “school”. Of course, Robert had previously made some disparaging remarks about how she had basically gotten what she deserved from “C influence” for leaving. I remember this (it was one of those famous “memory creating moments”) because I felt their attitude to be incredibly cold, judgemental and uncaring towards a lovely and kind person who had spent a good portion of her life supporting the fof (not to mention the anti-spirituality of such lack of compassion). And this is not the only case where I noticed the total disregard (and even malicious pleasure) for the suffering and misfortunes of ex-members. Such “a great place to live with wonderful people” indeed, as long as you remain one of the sheep!

261. nigel harris price - March 2, 2009

258 battlesword

“To be a child…..”

This made me think a little about what I/we try to do in our Academy of Precious Metal Arts – to ‘nurture the child within’. Most of my students encounter a joy/relief from the rigours of work and adult life when they come to the classes. But is ‘the child’ a simple, bumbling, untalented being? Not a whit of it! There is shown sophistication and aesthetic appreciation and the ability to overcome personal obstacles. I feel priveleged, not proud, to be given the position of tutor…..Nigel.

262. Yesri Baba - March 2, 2009

260 Lauralupa

“I personally heard some “students” commenting with a certain satisfaction and a lot of self-righteousness about a very serious illness contracted by my ex-center director after she left the “school”. Of course, Robert had previously made some disparaging remarks about how she had basically gotten what she deserved from “C influence” for leaving.”

Wait, that doesn’t make sense. I thought ‘c-influence’ (gawd, I just want to puke using that term) gave people ‘friction’ to help them ‘awaken’. Doesn’t it prove ‘they’ are still ‘working’ with her or anyone else who has misfortune befall them after leaving the fof? Does misfortune in the fof have some particular quality to it? Shouldn’t everything be all peaches and cream for people who leave so they won’t come back?

Maybe it is all a bunch of bullshit and Burton is a malicious liar and those students are deluded fucking fools.

Whadaya think?

263. Jomo Piñata - March 2, 2009


When Raymond Kennedy drowned in 1980, a statement in the Renaissance Vine (a publication then distributed to the centers) implied that his death was punishment by higher forces for having disobeyed the “no swimming” exercise.

If you have a copy of the Renaissance Vine containing this statement, let me know. jomopinata@gmail.com.

264. nigel harris price - March 2, 2009

262 Yesri Baba

I agree…..a load of bullshit from Burton to keep his precious, money-providing flock…..Nigel.

265. sharon - March 2, 2009

263 … hmmm – I was always told that Kennedy’s drowning death was the reason behind the no-swimming exercise… it was a “sign from influence C”, and we would therefore not swim any more. That’s weird enough.

I could be wrong about the above, but.. let’s please try not to damage our credibility by the old telephone game – you know, mis-stating what we heard or mis-remembering just enough that it comes out garbled in the end.

266. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - March 2, 2009

Regarding above exercises and rules: RB was able to control people and yet make them feel special at the same time, as if members had the corner market on higher forces and they were working directly with FOF students only. He has mastered the art of deception quite skillfully I believe.

267. Yesri Baba - March 2, 2009

Leprechauns put the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

NO NO NO! There is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow because there are Leprechauns.

268. Jomo Piñata - March 2, 2009


I remember the sequence of events crisply. There was a no-swimming exercise extant when I joined. Shortly after I joined (weeks or months), the Vine reported Raymond Kennedy had drowned, stating something in the nature of, “This demonstrates that C influence wishes exercises to be taken seriously,” or “C influence may deal harshly with those who do not observe exercises.” Neither of these were exactly what was stated; the exact words I do not remember. The import of the words, however, I remember clearly.

269. The FOFion - March 2, 2009

Students Leave to Escape Friction from Influence C

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Another large group of students left the school Monday to escape the friction bestowed upon them by Influence C, the 44 angels who preside over the Fellowship of Friends.

Joe Good Student held a secret meeting at his home on Regent Way, and led the charge for over 100 members to be released.

“I’ve had it,” said Joe Good Student, after having a glass of water spilled on his back by a waitress last week. “That was the last straw. I was having a very important lunch meeting, and she dumps water on me. Now that I’ve left, I can avoid such horrible misfortunes.”

On Joe’s first day out of the Fellowship, he said absolutely nothing happened to him.

“Suddenly,” Joe said, “it was easy to find parking downtown, people were easy to get along with, and I made three big sales at work. It’s amazing not having friction any longer.”

The group of ex-students met at Joe’s home to celebrate their escape from the Fellowship. One of the escapees — Josephine Good Student — had a fender bender en route, however.

“Obviously she never left,” Joe said.

But Josephine offered a different perspective.

“You know, it may be that some former members actually do experience less friction,” Josephine said. “But maybe it’s because they have adopted a different attitude about the world — and because they are open to new possibilities. Friction and suffering are obviously a part of life whether we believe we are being guided by a host of angels or not.”

During her seemingly unfortunate fender bender, Josephine met a “wonderful, thoughtful, and attractive man”.

“We’re engaged to be marry,” she said, “and we’re planning a honeymoon on the Amalfi Coast.”

“Argh,” Joe said. “Well, she has a point.”

270. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - March 2, 2009

Even the mighty cockroach has an intention.

271. Mick Danger - March 2, 2009

I heard that Raymond Kennedy was murdered for his jewelery while on vacation in the Phillipines and dumped in the ocean.
Patricia S.’s suicide attempt was lightly regarded from “on high” and she was condemned for bungling it.
Take my advice, you’d be better off dead.
I suspect that fear is what keeps people in, not any sort of wonderfulness or chance of “creating a soul”.

272. veramente - March 2, 2009

more on bad omens:
when Ri…d Foc..io passed away from AIDS, the Milan center director J. Gr..e made a comment at a meeting connecting C Influence to his death,
sort of a schock/punisment maybe? I did not hear this directly but I was told by trusted sources.
Fatalism, Fear, the f’s of the Fellowship of Friends.

273. No Kid - March 2, 2009

The version of the D.K. story I heard: While on a sex vacation in Bali, he disappeared. The following morning, his body washed up, stripped of the copious gold jewelry he always wore. An autopsy revealed that the cause of death was not drowning. Rather, a bamboo tube had been inserted into his throat and his lungs filled with sand. A traditional method, apparently, it is supposed to be very painful. Beach boys were considered the likely culprits. I do not know if this is true or not. Maybe, or maybe just a scare story for a little queer kid. Anyway, it is all very “Suddenly Last Summer.” N.K.

274. brucelevy - March 2, 2009

265. sharon

The no swimming thing was already in effect when Raymond died. RB didn’t want anyone to take time away from “building the school”. Some salaried people would run off for an hour or so to jump in the water nearby to let of steam from working days on end to finish “octaves”. And with the $180.00- $200.00 he was paying us per month, he felt he owned all our time (as well as our bodies).

Like when he initiated the smoking exercise. All sorts of horse shit reasons were given, but the truth was someone had half-assedly calculated how much money people were spending in cigs per year and he saw that money should be coming to the school (him).

275. brucelevy - March 2, 2009

273. No Kid

I was at the “Ranch” before, when it happened, and after. This is the first time I ever heard that story.

276. brucelevy - March 2, 2009

265. sharon

Also, at the time of “the event” with Raymond there were several sociopathic pretty boys on the ascent for RB’s attention. It wouldn’t at all be beyond the pale to assume various wierd stories were fabricated for any number of reasons by these people.

277. Jomo Piñata - March 2, 2009

No Kid, I am so interested in your stories. I never heard that one either. Please keep telling us what you know.

278. dick moron - March 2, 2009

271. & 273.

Please refer to 265. Sharon
I was told a different, less sensational story, but I will not add to this thread, as I have no idea if I was told the full truth. Let’s simply assume that the death was a sad event for his loved ones.

279. Mick Danger - March 2, 2009

I think the No Kid version is correct.
And F U Bruce for getting paid more than the rest of us.
($50/mo. per idiot)

280. brucelevy - March 2, 2009

279. Mick Danger

I guess my ass was cuter than yours.

281. X-ray - March 2, 2009

Whatever Burton said, he said with only purpose to turn every thing to his advantage.
Burton is a cheap charlatan which regulated solely by profit.

282. sharon - March 2, 2009

Jomo and Bruce – thanks, I stand corrected.

283. nigel harris price - March 2, 2009

Anyone want to know what happened to me today? Well, some of you may know I am an adult education freelance teacher – in other words I am involved in ‘lifelong learning’, not only for my students, but in terms of learning in my own ‘long life’ (the soul). This morning, I went to the offices of the local city newspaper to talk about doing some advertising and was visually met by a large, etched, glass panel with the paper’s motto –

“Action into words and words into action”.

Wouldn’t that be great as our motto on the blogsite?!

(Incidentally, I had lunch with my dad and stepmum and the spoon allocated to the table was numbered – 42 (i.e. William Shakespeare and Walt Whitman – my two guardian angels – were working directly with me for that part of the day)………….don’t worry, I’m going to Dr Midgley tomorrow for some prn Haloperidol, since I feel a ‘whopping high’ coming on. Plug me in or turn me off……I’m only human…..Nigel.

284. ton - March 3, 2009

nigel, i too am a believer in and proponent of ‘lifelong learning’ — in fact way back pre-fellowship, i earned my bachelor’s degree from ‘the college of lifelong learning’ at a university in detroit…. good luck with your ‘whopping high’ and the doctors / chemicals conscripted to deal with the situation….

parlez vous espaniol?

285. nigel harris price - March 3, 2009

This evening, Linzi, my richest student (her company has such a turnover that she has to charge and pay VAT), gave me a memory pen she was given herself. It was a ‘freebie’ from the Institute for Small Business and Entrepreneurship. O.K. Burtonites – some ‘prat’ has to steal Bobbie’s thunder and get ‘acronymed’ into ISBE…..No shit, I’ll send you the damn thing, if you like…..Nigel.

286. nigel harris price - March 3, 2009

284 ton

Si, jo hablo poquito espanol. No sono a Youtubeo! Muchas gracias!!!!!

Nigel (latin for little black one)

287. peter - March 3, 2009

It is so good to leave the Fellowship of Friend now. To become a real simple human and to find your own way in this Universe. Let me tell you what helps me.

1) Be a slave to no one. Don’t trust people who say you need them to connect with God. You and everybody else IS God. Only God exists – everything else is an beautiful and dramatic illusion.

2) Transform your own suffering and the suffering of the world. Only God exists – and it is only God who does everything to himself.

3) Read one or two an philosophical books every month. Go deep and understand what you are reading.

4) Start your own company for at least 1 day a week. Work slow. Aim for 20% growth a year. Read one or two business books every month. Study what your doing. Implement and test what you learn. Put the interest of your clients before your own. Be a servant in your thoughts an your actions. Think how you can make the dreams of your clients come true.

5) Become financial free. Always spend less then you make. Save 10 to 20% of your net income a month. Restrict vanity, don’t spend money motivated by this force. Life simple and sober. Go to bed early – wake up before 4 or 5 o’clock.

6) Eat more fish an soya than meat. Eat lots of whole grain, fruit and vegetables. Don’t smoke more than one pipe, cigarette or cigar a week. Drink with moderation.

7) Observe your breathing with closed eyes for at least 5 minutes a day. Make every day a stiff 45 minute walk.

8) Spend a lot of quality time with your spouse. Take good care of them. Be absolutely loyal in your thoughts and actions towards your spouse. Love them and be happy.

9) Spend a lot of time in nature, just walking and looking. Take a trip of 3 days every month. And two longer holidays a year.

10) Accept being misunderstood, don’t let it bother you. Realize you are not your body. That the body lives in your soul – the soul not in the body. Understand that love feels that you are everything and wisdom thinks that you are nothing. Don’t be afraid of dead – remember you only return to the same situation you where in before you where born a few decennia ago. 

Now just stop paying them and release them and all their ‘make believe love’ from your life.

Going, going, gone.

Become free again: healthy, wealthy and wise.

288. Wouldnt You Like To Know - March 3, 2009

Regarding the subject of R. K. that has been discussed on this page.

First let me say: May God rest the soul of that fellow sojourner/pilgrim. We are all strangers in a strange land. And, may all those involved, and/or near and dear to that person, be at peace.

* * * * * *

No Kid said:

‘The version of the D.K. story I heard: While on a sex vacation in Bali, he. . .’

There was no D.K. in this story. There is another person who is often referred to as D.K. in the Fellowship of Friends. They had nothing to do with this incident of R. K.

The simple, unsensational, story is: During a time in FoF when there were exercises of:1) No sex outside the realm of the marriage vow. And, 2) No swimming. The above person supposedly went to a paradise location on planet earth (No Kid has right location) for an extramarital affair. (Other person to remain unnamed but not an FoF member at the time.) While swimming in the ocean at that location, they were pulled into the briny deep by an unusually strong undertow and drowned. Two serious exercises were violated. Other spins on the story, stated above, may or may not have validity. The point is not the specifics of the incident but, rather, how FoF spun it to its benefit.

This is how it was presented: Violation of these two exercises caused the death by sea (C) influence. As I remember it: Poseidon (Neptune. God of the Sea.) had, at the time, significant prominence in FoF (and still does). The statue of Poseidon was recently acquired; the one where Poseidon subdues lowly sea creatures with his trident. The incident was used to reinforce the seriousness of the Work that all were in in FoF.

As usual, and in hindsight, REB was diabolical and fear mongering. It was a tragedy.

* * * * * *

‘Tis all a Chequer-board of Nights and Days
Where Destiny with Men for Pieces plays:
Hither and thither moves, and mates, and slays,
And one by one back in the Closet lays.

Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

289. dragon - March 3, 2009

nigel harris price

best wishes and I think we should upgrade Leonardo da V.’s work of art (isn’t L. da V. one of the 44?)


290. No Kid - March 3, 2009

DK was just a typo, not a conflation of two different people. NK

291. in2it - March 3, 2009

287. peter

Thanks for your beautiful, optimistic, and life-giving thoughts this morning. I copied and pasted, and then printed it. A great way to start the day.

It’s interesting how your Number 8 (the symbol for infinity) is a smile.


292. elena - March 3, 2009

Now that we’ve exposed so much darkness from the Fellowship it would be worth exposing what looked lighter so that some could understand why it is so easy for many to still be there.

Who did Robert help, how and why?

I remember Carol D., a woman who I have much respect and appreciation for and who I’ve never perceived as an enabler or opportunist, telling me how generous Robert was. Trusting her as much as I did and still do, I adopted that definition of Robert as my own and remained in the Fellowship for another ten years.

I did see how Robert took Tam.. into his hands when she got so ill with the rheumatic.. I don’t remember the name and she and her husband were sent to a holiday in a warm expensive place. She had of course made a film on her infinite love for Robert and the beauties of the Fellowship.

Surely at the beginning his kindnesses must have been less interested? Was he particularly kind only to rich people? Talented people that he could make use of? Ballet dancers that might be willing to be seduced?

In relation to the ballet dancers which of course are beautiful but from beautiful to becoming the reason to be of a School of Consciousness as the true and only expression of culture, aren’t we way off in Robert Burton’s personal agenda? Those still inside really buy that the efforts made in this direction are really about true culture and cannot see long before it reaches that, Robert’s personal interests in the beauty of the boys? This MANDATORY events that Fellowship members are meant to support at no matter what cost and that are played out so that members from all over the world that come to Journey Forth by Day, pay for them, are they really what you, members, now take for true culture?

These lollipops with which Robert adorns primarily his life and distorts yours in a pompous manner so that you think that it is worth the money and effort, can you really not see beyond the superficiality of it? The conviction that because it costs of a lot of money and effort it is worth it? It certainly reveals our middle class mentality that cannot differentiate between true art, true culture and cheap pomposity. But of course, if we can’t see the difference between a decent man and a narcissistic sociopath, who could expect us to differentiate between a nouveau rich and a good house holder.

No one in the Fellowship can see what a bad house holder Robert Burton is; he spends the loads of easy money from members quickly and carelessly because he doesn’t have the being to spend it wisely for himself or the people around him. That is what you are supporting and your karma, like ours, extends out into his with the same poverty.

293. dragon - March 3, 2009

Hi elena,

It pales beside his other social activities but
did we ever calculate how much carbon dioxide emission was caused by REB’s excessive travelling?

It gives me really cause for concern.

Just in case we should inform ATTAC.

294. elena - March 3, 2009


It seems to pale besides his other activities but this pseudo culture of the Fellowship is what holds a lot of people inside convinced that they are in Conscious la-la-Land and these culturally cheap events prove it’s legitimacy.

How do decent intelligent people in the Fellowship, university teachers, professionals, etc, justify so much superficiality, as culture? The issue is fundamental because it is the surrounding culture what sets the standard in the private lives of people. If all the members of the Fellowship work to feed Robert Burton’s voyeurist pleasure in looking at young male boys dancing ballet as the main Fellowship event every year, who in the Fellowship would dare question the fact that he systematically subdues them sexually? If the whole community has already been subdued to accept this as Culture, who could dare to oppose his personal practices? Journey Forth by Day is a shrine to Robert Burton’s homosexuality. It is directly connected to life in the Fellowship of Friends.

It is the poverty of that pseudo-culture of the Fellowship together with the extent to which the individuals have been conditioned and limited what allows for the members to justify the whole thing in their imaginary picture as a legitimate effort. People need culture and Robert supplies them with that.

If any of this poverty could justify the human abuses it would be so easy to stop being concerned but the thought that it is for such ridiculous poverty what members are willing to harm people for that I have tremendous difficulty in letting go.

Fellowship life weakens the capacity of each member to protect himself and his interests and replaces those for the Fellowship’s and Robert’s interests. “Interest” is a good word because no one in the Fellowship would use that word. Members are not supposed to have interests and Robert’s interests are not interests but inspirations from Influence C.

If members could see that the pseudo culture that Robert presents is not culture but his personal agenda and that every single one of his exercises is meant to control them so that they don’t connect to their own well being, it would help them. The Fellowship functions on the premise that members are guilty of not being conscious and therefore must control and condition their selves in every area and allow for Robert, the Conscious being, to direct them. If they just allowed for this in personal exercises we would have a cult or School on a personal level but the fact that they allow him to determine their lives socially puts a whole community at work for him against them selves.

295. Opus 111 - March 3, 2009

Cattle are supposed to have the biggest carbon footprint amongst common mammals.

When it comes to calculating REB’s carbon noxious emissions of all kinds, all I can say is:

Holy Cow!

296. Panorea - March 3, 2009

Just a message from The Bhagavad Gita. I came across it in a book I presently read. Promise, I won’t make a habit of sending quotations here…But this one is to the point.

“It is better to live your own destiny imperfectly than to live an imitation of somebody else’s life with perfection”

–Bhagavad Gita

297. Jomo Piñata - March 3, 2009

“When you give up the ability to decide for yourself, you give up what makes you “you.” ”

298. Yesri Baba - March 3, 2009

“It is better to live your own destiny imperfectly…”

Hey! I’m doing great!

299. Anna - March 3, 2009

Here are some thoughts about why being in the Fellowship felt so nice.


I joined at twenty one and was still very uneasy socially. In the Fellowship we were told that the ability to be socially fluent and the capacity for small talk were properties of the ‘Jack of Hearts’, and that manifesting from there was relatively undesirable.

This was all very convenient. Instead of fidgeting nervously, or being witty in a way which not many people seemed to get, and instead of rushing off when there wasn’t much to say, I could just stand still, say nothing at all, and wait for or invite someone to begin ‘teaching’ me.

I could pre-plan what to say and leave long pauses, and the other party would wait patiently- understanding that I was using ‘Kings of Centres’ to formulate.

There was clearly loads that I didn’t know. Ouspensky’s system which was still in vogue in 1984, was really complicated and mysterious and promising. Everything spoken about was new and interesting and meaningful and deep… it seemed to lead somewhere.

I could talk with men and have long walks with them, without anyone getting the wrong idea; there was no menacing flirting because that would be ‘infra sex’, our interests were ‘enlightenment’ our ambitions spiritual and lofty.

Students seemed more beautiful than other people: they were ‘wide eyed’ because they were dividing attention. They looked shiny and clean because ‘impressions’ were very important. They were picturesque, angelic even.

People hugged me lightly yet meaningfully. They weren’t allowed to be ‘negative’. I was welcomed, encouraged.

It was all bliss.


Now I realise the limitations of that paradise… even for newer students. First of all we kept each other superficial by our insistence on showing only our ‘angelic’ faces. Our darker, dirtier sides were part of the ‘persona non grata’; we did not delve constructively into these less digestible bits, or attempt to integrate them, but briskly wrote them off as the King of Clubs, or the Queen of Hearts, Infra-Sex, Chief Feature and so on.

Many students came to the Fellowship bleeding: they had wounds but these were categorised as the soil for ‘magnetic centre’ and we were instructed to leave them behind, to focus on higher non-human things; a kind of disembodied phenomena we called ‘soul’. In a way we were being asked to close our eyes to our human-ness. I see this now as active promotion of sleep.

But those parts of ourselves that we rejected, did not just go away. In fact unattended to they festered and grew. In private many students succumbed in secret to obsessive compulsive behaviours, were vicious, pathologically fearful, addictive, violent or depressive.


I loved the ‘angelic’ face of the Fellowship. It seemed worth paying for. In 1990 when I worked in the office and saw for myself that most of our teaching payments were spent by Robert Burton on his personal life I did not mind because I felt I was getting so much and because I believed him to be conscious and to be acting from a higher rationale.

Right until the very end I loved that face.


But now I realize just how harmful that admiration was. Even if Burton had been honest and he hadn’t been cheating us all, even if there hadn’t been the sexual exploitation, we would still have lost. Because any teaching which divides a man into ‘good and bad’ and trashes the latter, must ultimately harm him.

So if we had not invested so much in Burton’s angelic seeming group; if instead we had struggled to come to terms with our personal trauma’s, to awaken to all parts of ourselves, to acknowledge how our parents had shaped us, and then to stop blaming them, had struggled to take responsibility for our own weird behaviours, had become adults… we might slowly and painstakingly have developed our own more real communities of friends, our own families, our own professions, our own tastes.

It wouldn’t have been as easy, or as instantly ‘sweet’ as that ‘angelic’ kick we got from membership of the Fellowship, but it might have been more lasting, more true.

300. tatyana - March 3, 2009

Thank you Elena and Anna.
Nice posts.

301. nigel harris price - March 3, 2009

Some songs today on the radio…..

“We’re all making plans for Nigel,
We only want what’s best for him:
And if Nigel says he’s happy,
He’s happy in his world” (by XTC)

“To dream the impossible dream”

(sung by Michael Ball, who sung ‘Love Changes Everything’ in 1989)

It’s all right people……just a manageable high, no agression.

Ton…..thank you for seeing me through…..I have all the help anyone could need…..Nigel.

302. elena - March 4, 2009

Thank you Anna, that was, as we use to say, truly emotional. We are doing that now in a different way but it is never too late!

Thank you very much.

303. fofblogmoderator - March 4, 2009

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