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Fellowship Of Friends Discussion- Part 64 January 31, 2009

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.
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Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

For recent pages from the blog go here

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

To visit “Pathway To Presence”, the newly created web site for recruiting new members to the Fellowship; http://www.pathwaytopresence.org

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/

Comments

1. dick moron - January 31, 2009

OK “you all”.
It’s a fresh page. Try and use it in a less selfish way.
P E A C E

2. Postminimalist - January 31, 2009

What might be helpful is to ask ourselves where the negativity on the previous page — or pages — comes from. The answer, in my opinion, is that a lot of it is an outgrowth of our own baggage that we brought with us TO the Fellowship of Friends. But at the same time the vast portion of it is an outgrowth of the extremely unhealthy conditions that exist within this cult.

The Fellowship of Friends, like so many cults, fucks with your mind.

One challenge in all of this: How do you keep a positive and constructive outlook on your life, and yet still acknowledge the dysfunction that you experienced in past years? The answer, in my opinion, begins with stopping the denial, and acknowledging just how incredibly fucked up the Fellowship of Friends experience is. And was.

Short of that, we’re dreaming.

In the meantime, there’s a vast world that offers inspiration and spiritual growth to each one of us. Keeping an eye on both — the tragic absurdity of our pasts within the FOF, and the enormous possibilities of the present and the future — is the key.

3. Panorea - January 31, 2009

To agree with you Postminimalist and add a bit:

One of the issues for many of us who joined, stayed and keep on staying in the Cult is self- medication.

How ofter did you remember yourself today? Did you work with your suffering? Did you not express negativity? Did you pay your teaching payments before you paid your rent? How many sequences you managed to finish and how did you do with your four wordless breaths dear?

Lots of cheap “psychological” thinking to alleviate the pain and traumas.

4. dragon - January 31, 2009

As long as no distance to the stylistic level of the FOF cult comes into being there will be no real reappraisal of the past.

The outwards distance generating and excluding FOF language causes a certain “long-term relationship” that connects FOF-members and Ex-members with each other. (I honour the information and explanations of Ex-members on this Blog).

This special vocabulary, “cult creations” plays a significant role in the personal world of experiences. Every member/Ex-member is gone through the suggestive system of the FOF. It influenced its members/Ex-members radically.

It is and was in many cases a personal world that doesn’t allow its members/Ex-members any rest or possibility to distance oneself from the “FOF-generated-oneself”.

So may the FOF triumph over the Ex-members because so many single persons prefer to persist in a personal “fool’s hell”?

Don’t you notice the malice of certain FOF indoctrination “instructors” if the Blog seems to break apart?

The Blog is a place for victims, let it also be a bridge to those who are obsessed with the FOF mess!

Whalerider, I wish you a very pleasant and healthy New Year!

5. elena - January 31, 2009

299. tatyana – January 31, 2009
I don’t think WhileRider attacked you.

Your grasp of English might be one of the reasons why you didn’t perceive it as such but your benevolence and disregard of the whole context has more to do with it. The context is where the detail develops.

Tatyana: He was trying to understand you, to reach for you. He did not do it well, obviously, but I am sure he did not want to hurt you.
_____ I disagree with you Tatyana, he did it “very well”. He’s quite an expert. If he’d stayed in the Fellowship he would have taken Elizabeth’s or Girard’s role without difficulty! He dresses the whole post with an apparently benign attitude of condescendence but goes straight for the jugular: instead of addressing my posts and my getting pissed off at him for treating Nigel like a mentally retarded who must take drugs for the rest of his life without looking for other options or my answers to Ton, We were there and Giorgio, he pretends to be the kind psychologist analyzing why I’m so disturbed! Instead of acknowledging why I’m disturbed he deduces that since my sick little mother who committed suicide fucked me up, it is very normal for me to be pissed off with the world. Of course he lives out “my sick little mother who fucked me up” so that he can get away with his righteous act in your innocent eyes.

Tell me, what is the difference between his cute little pattern and the Fellowship’s? And a lot of what people are trying to imply here about the baggage? Wasn’t the Fellowship’s greatest arm: Since you are all sick little people from life you must leave your luggage at the entrance and allow divine Bobby to implant a conscious little chip in your deranged little being? Isn’t that what Whalerider is saying? Since you’re a sick little traumatized woman fucked up by your mother’s suicide it is perfectly normal that you would be so pissed off with the world? Washing away with one swift stroke the acknowledgement of reason. He denies me the public argument and frames me in the personal arena attacking my anger so that he doesn’t have to deal with my arguments. Behind the apparent kindness he is using my mother to belittle them and me. Then he washes his hands with a generalization about all of us being imperfect beings! “What is it about your own imperfections that you are not willing to accept? Accepting your imperfections will lead you to enlightenment!

We are all imperfect beings, even Dr Phil. Only Allah is perfect, so just relax, and let’s focus on draining Burton’s victim pool.”
He tries to manipulate me like Robert with the idea that if I accept the insults he just laid out and my imperfections, they’ll lead me to enlightenment! WAUCKKKKK, WAUCKKKK, PUKE, FUCK! Excuse me a minute, I’m throwing up again!. Robert didn’t just fuck him up physically, his mind adopted the same technique.
In his second post he tries the game again, in his third he doesn’t deny what I’m saying and in his fourth he swallows his balls and says he’s not angry with me! On what ground are you defending him when he knows better than to insist?

The interesting thing about this psychology is that it doesn’t mind invading Irak because Osama is in Afghanistan and convince it self that it is an absolutely righteous move! The psychology of criminals doesn’t mind what they attack as long as they win. They’ll make up a story justifying the means with the end. The same psychology allows for people to watch with voyeurist pleasure as long as their underlying interests are being satisfied! Fortunately Mr. Obama seems to understand something about dignity, maybe Whalerider could use him as a new model and discard Robert’s beloved technique which he emulates without effort.

Tatyana: I did not reply to your message, I am sorry. I did not think I should. Often I don’t get replies to my postings too. I think for more intimate conversations it is better to use emails. Write to me, I will gladly reply. You now my email.

_______I challenge you Tatyana to show me three instances here in which people get addressed personally and they don’t answer. You did not reply to my direct address to you three or four times. When you go to a gathering and someone comes up to talk to you, do you turn around and talk with somebody else in their face? What makes you or anybody else think that the Public Square doesn’t deserve the same respect? Since when do you give your selves permission to be less than your selves in a given environment? I have addressed you quite a few times here, I don’t need to write to you personally to communicate with you in this forum. Learning to harmonize the public and the personal in the Public Arena is the challenge of anyone wishing to participate here. It might help us reunite the hasnamuss that we developed in the Fellowship and heal us a step further.

I do not expose my personal life, that many here call “luggage” (as if they still had theirs deposited at the entrance of the Fellowship hoping they never have to look at it again, including the endless years spent in a cult) so that unscrupulous characters use it like Whalerider did. I present my personal life because I am not ashamed of doing so, it is a legitimate arena to explore, not to insult. When I expose the aberrations both inside and outside the Fellowship, if any measure of shame can help us reach a point of metanioa or change, then I am happy to acknowledge the shame. Our acts of denial in the Fellowship or here are shameful. Our misuse of each other’s suffering is shameful. Our indifference and neglect of others is shameful. Our poverty to establish a dialogue is shameful. So fine, we are in a pretty shameful condition, we can acknowledge that we love it just like that and continue insulting each other up and down this river or we can at least try to aim for a little respect.

If we can approach our personal lives with the beauty and delicacy that they deserve, we might have a chance to come to a more balanced social interaction. If I had said to Whalerider when he told us about how he’d been raped by Robert, that it was understandable that he is such an asshole after systematically putting himself up for rape, I would not have done anything different to how he is using my mother to confine me into that same miserable frame. Read my posts to him if you have to, I actually fell in love with him it evoked such respect and compassion for him to be using my mother’s tragedy against me. He might not get himself to apologize but if he doesn’t and that is the pattern that you are going to work with here, you will have little differences with the Fellowship: pretty little club with like minded people feeding each other’s crimes.

You think “crime” is too strong a word for something that is everyday life to you? Being sensitive enough about people’s integrity allows one to understand how criminal it is every time we rape others verbally or physically.

In the Public Square, it is possible and necessary to explore the reach of each other’s background because like in a Shakespearean Play, every act reveals the actors intent. Our relationships in public are no different to our marriages or personal relationships. Our inability to objectively respect the argument and distort it into subjective attacks is what is trying to protect the subjectivity of our values.

I am no saint and I have said so from the beginning but I do apologize when I feel I’ve wronged someone badly and protest equally when I have been badly abused. I protest when others are abused. I offer myself for exploration and healing, I put up with a great deal of abuse but I protest when it goes beyond the standard of decency with which I am willing to be here. I treat the rest of us with the same stick.

6. elena - January 31, 2009

P.S. Thank you for listening

7. tatyana - January 31, 2009

Elena, I wrote to you about 3 messages via e-mail over the past 2 years, you never replied to me. I thought it is perfectly normal to not reply to a personal posting or messages. I don’t get a feeing that I am being ignored or ostracized.

My English is not too good to have long detailed letters. I can’t understand 25% from your postings. Besides, I am at work 10 hours a day where I am not allowed to use the Internet for personal needs. I follow the discussion when I can and often I am a few days behind with the answer.

But just to let you know how the last a few days of the blog looks like from my perspective.

Nigel asked Whaleridaer a specific question. Whilerider gave him a beautiful detailed answer. It touched me. Then you added your contribution to Nigel inspiring him to explore the alternative ways of healing. Whalerider pointed out 2 things which I thought were accurate and polite – do not encourage a bipolar to stop the medicine, and do not challenge his manhood (below the belt).

The Another name made a contribution about her experience and medical knowledge in the area of depression. That she addressed it to Nigel and Whalerider was absolutely normal – the initial conversation was between them. You got offended and hurt her. She disappeared. Whalerider pointed out your defensive attack and was looking for a possible reason. People do that. Everybody in the world of psychological self-study sooner or later look in their early childhood and find that a lot of life-long problems are hidden there. He was not careful the way he said it, but he did not attack you.
He just pointed out that perhaps your defensiveness can be explained by insecurity based on a trauma in the early childhood.
Since then you attack him, kick him in the sensitive spots and insult him. That is the same “defensiveness” in action. Try to find what is behind it. Why do you feel attacked when you are not attacked?

You know I am a little afraid if anything I said with my level of English will be understood as an attack and you will turn against me. In order to establish a dialog we need first to establish the trust.

Have a nice day!

8. tatyana - January 31, 2009

“Why do you feel attacked when you are not attacked?”

Sorry this is stupid. One can’t know that. Just Why do you fee attacked. What scares you? What challengnes you and takes away the sence of security? In these specific situations?

Once you find out that maybe later you will see that it was all your projection and not a reality.

9. fofblogmoderator - January 31, 2009

I would like to suggest that when there is what appears to be a “private” conversation going on, the participants communicate directly through their personal email.

10. tatyana - January 31, 2009

One more thought about the blog being a public square. I am not sure if it is a public square, a party or an open meeting on the subject of the Fellowship of Friends. At the party I see people I am talking to, here I only see words on the screen. I don’t know how many people are reading – I am alone in the room. I am not sure I will feel comfortable at the party where everything is videotaped and broadcasted worldwide. I think one has to be careful here about how personal one wants to be. Because when I leave my room with the screen and go out, I meet a lot of people who are reading this.

11. elena - January 31, 2009

Tatyana, you are neither listening to me nor wanting to hear me.

“Why do you feel attacked when you are not attacked?”
Sorry this is stupid. One can’t know that. Just Why do you fee attacked. What scares you? What challengnes you and takes away the sence of security? In these specific situations?

If you really cared to hear an answer to that you would take into consideration the posts I’ve written for two years. We were not born yesterday. We have been at this for a long time. The measure of consideration or non consideration about a person’s condition is obvious.

I am no saint as I said and I’ve been talking with the defensiveness proper of a woman who was ostracized for years in the Fellowship and feels the pattern continues to happen here. I’ve attacked many things wildly and surely hurt many people’s feeling deeply. All that I can understand and accept the consequences within certain limits and propose other notions for some kind of understanding. Whether you take them into consideration or not is up to you as it is also up to me to put up with them or not.

In relation to the e-mails you might have written to me, there are a few people who are not willing to acknowledge me in public but make up for it in private writing me e-mails. Since I am no longer willing to play that game I don’t tend to answer them. I lived enough double lives in the Fellowship to allow for it to continue to happen.

12. elena - January 31, 2009

Steve, I thank you for that motion but I don’t think we are perfectly developed conscious beings to pretend that as of now we will be objective about our lives to totally wipe out our subjectivities. We can all definitely make a better effort but I doubt it is about not being personal.

The most moving posts here have been the most personal ones including that of Whalerider’s that made so much history for all of us.

We are in a learning process. Please allow for that learning.

Thank you for all your work and effort to hold us together. Please forgive my many improprieties when I’ve had more than I can deal with.

13. Postminimalist - January 31, 2009

9. fofblogmoderator: “I would like to suggest that when there is what appears to be a “private” conversation going on, the participants communicate directly through their personal email.”

I agree. I’m sorry to the posters on the previous page (Giorgio? and another) who I criticized regarding this ongoing string. In retrospect, it’s pretty obvious to me that you offered good advice. Still, I’m a bit torn… The FOF pretends to be this instrument of positivity and good, but in reality it exudes an extremely negative vibration. It’s unhealthy physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually — which is a lot of unhealthy’s.

The FOF is a coarse, heavy energy. It’s not a “fine”, light energy.

So sometimes I think it’s good that people purge themselves of this negative “vibe” that radiates from Burton and the FOF. In other words, LET IT OUT.

From talking to “my” therapist about a year ago (who I was extremely impressed with), he felt that a blog on the topic of Burton and the FOF was extremely helpful for all of us, partly for that reason.

On the other hand, balance is a good thing.

I’m guessing that most people who open these pages generally ignore the really long posts like I do, unless they see something particularly compelling. At the same time, the resulting effect is that it tends to water things down here, and tends to discourage readers.

Anyway, DM, thanks for starting this page on a good note. We’re all on the same “team” here. Our opposition is ignorance, stupidity, and hateful ideas that some of us pretend are handed down from the angels — or once did pretend.

Mr. Burton: The angels, if they exist, probably don’t appreciate having their views misrepresented and twisted for the sake of power, wealth, and personal gratification. Ya think?

14. dragon - January 31, 2009

10. tatyana

Your post:

I like your posts and your openness

The FOF reminds me with its structures of the Scientology Org. A more elitist and secret Org but an effectively fishing one.

And even if DC or other shills “vanish” for a time, the Org doesn’t give up its aim and the true nature of the FOF flashes through the posts of special persons here on the Blog.

They don’t give up!

The petition and its small number of signatures, the separation of Ex-members here on the Blog is a true delicacy for them, be sure.

You are open and most of the other Ex-members are open but this openness is also a valuable information pool for the FOF. Please, don’t give us any information about your current living conditions or your permanent address here on the Blog. They are collecting everything!

I think every Ex-member is working or struggling for surviving and it is no picnic. In addition to that the whole FOF mess is also “present”.

To learn to trust again is also a great job!

We can’t see each other and it is often difficult to react in an appropriately way here on this web medium for communication.

It is so easy to maim or to disfigure the words.

The end of the daily posts is one aim of the FOF because the Blog is a thorn!

It is obvious that many Ex-members have very different opinions concerning the future of the FOF and its daily “work”.

This is very disappointing for the “fighters” and the sparkling energy of the fighters is perhaps somewhat strange for the others. This “gradient” should not be the reason for a feeling of “loneliness in a room”.

Please post us your experiences and stay with us ( and also all the others Whalerider, ton, Elena, lauralupa, Mick, ………) it is remarkable that you are posting us although you must be tired after your long working days!

If the Blog is a real warning sign or a guardian, we will have to get it together again and again.

15. nigel harris price - January 31, 2009

“Shafts of light”, like I said. May we all try to work through these times, rather than indulge. Thanks, you guys…..Nigel.

16. whalerider - January 31, 2009

Thanks for your encouragement, Dragon. And Nigel, look at you!

Everyone has issues. It doesn’t mean you’re “sick” or “fucked up”. Remember, it’s the people who don’t think they are crazy who actually are….like guess who?

Elena, on the surface you appear calm and mild mannered, but under the surface your posts indicate you are a raging volcano of feelings and passion that hijack your intellect. I have always admired your passion however I am not going to argue with you when you are angry and making personal insulting attacks against me.

And I will not be silenced or intimidated by your hostility.

IMO, you are right, the Fellowship tends to bring out masochistic behavior in people leftover from childhood. (Those with healthy self-esteem, leave.) As young children, no matter how abusive or neglectful our caregivers, we’ll blame ourselves for our problems rather than our caregivers as a matter of survival. Add in the FOF exercise of the non-expression of negative emotions and you have a recipe for the age regression trance of dependency.

It is incredibly freeing and enlightening to accept your shortcomings and still love yourself. If you do not do that, you will continue projectile vomiting back all your unresolved past at the world and eventually find yourself in a very lonely and isolated place.

The deal is, we all have an unconscious mind, the entire contents of which we cannot possibly become conscious for many good reasons. The FOF cult indoctrination is to attempt to become present in the unconscious mind which is an impossible task…and job security for Burton.

When others point out the unconscious behavior that we have not accepted about ourselves, we become defensive. That’s normal. It just means there are unresolved issued from the past, that all.

I too have unconscious behavior, which I learn to accept as I am able, and I certainly do not consider myself any better than you are anyone else. And I am not here to exploit anyone.

If someone really, really pisses you off, chances are it’s not about them, but who they unconsciously remind you of from your past.

17. tatyana - January 31, 2009

11
“If you really cared to hear an answer”
“We were not born yesterday.”
“I’ve been talking with the defensiveness proper of a woman who was ostracized for years in the Fellowship”
“it is also up to me to put up with them or not.”
“there are a few people who are not willing to acknowledge me in public ”
“I am no longer willing to play that game I don’t tend to answer them”

This is too aggressive for me. It scares me. You scare me, Elena. I feel as if you are screaming at me. I don’t like that. I did not do anything to you to deserve this screaming.

I don’t want to ostracize you, but I don’t want to be screamed at and therefore I better go away.

Take care.

18. GIORGIO - February 1, 2009

Mr. Fofblogmoderator, thank you for this site.

I runned into this site a few days ago, while i was looking in internet for some information of some old good friend from the fof i needed to find, i have not had any contact with any former or current student since i left.
I left the fof several years ago, after being part of the cult for another amount of years, i mostly lived in Renaissance, (it was the marriage between heaven and hell), the teacher was nuts, gay and most of all had explanations to buffer this simple truth.
I left my best friends and and also a piece of my shell when i left, after i leaving, i experienced emotional suffering for maybe a couple of years, i missed my friends and transformed whatever i had to transform. When i left already knew it was a sick cult.
I became a member of the fof because gurdjieff books and what it was behind of him, years later and since then, i embraced the silent sufi path.
I realize now, after reading these posts, how harmful can be to be part of a false school, i remember reading that gurdjieff said:
The only way to recognize a real or false school was being part of it, i guess it happened to us; we had to learn the long and hard way being part of a false school.
It was said also that the way begins when someone is really disappointed, are we disappointed enough to start a new beginning?
It says, that a man can tell the truth by accident, that it was crazy RB did and maybe still does “he speaks” lots of nonsense, but sometimes like blind cupid, shoots to whoever is on the way something that can be used to the inner and personal work, i believe that everything has a reason and we deserve what we get, we are responsible.
The sooner we separate from being a “former student”, the sooner we heal, and go back to our original way. We belong to the forth way not to a school.
Now, i joined this blog by being at the discussion part 63, and i have not idea and have not red, how it was before, but this actual comments are mostly negative, it is like a cat fight, people attacking each other and a whole bunch of long and very complicated and elaborated comments (wait for Elena’s answer to this) don’t you have work to do?
Well, excuse my arrogance, i been thinking today, that i this site is maybe not for me, it is interesting but not for me, but somehow i got involved, now i like go back to my ordinary life.
I will check anyway in a few months to see if the cat fight finished.
Elena, during this days you have taken a lot of space, your behavior is really negative, people is trying to understand you and help you, but you are very selfish and nasty, you need serious and professional help, you are not well, and may consider dropping this site, because participating on it, may feed your illness.

19. normal human being - February 1, 2009

Tanyusha, do not be scared… Be nice to Elena, let her scream.. Come back, we wil miss you…

20. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 1, 2009

Giorgio: If you go back and read some of the past blog pages you may find some very helpful. The blog has a life of its own and it seems to have some very wonderful, useful posts and sometimes quite the opposite.

21. ton - February 1, 2009

18 grigorio… WRITE ON!
the greater fellowhip website is a wonderful resource for connecting with old ‘friends’ if that is what you are about.

the intention here is NOT to open old wounds: a fresh page offers an opportunity to move on and i respect that…. nevertheless i feel i need to address issues and comments from the previous page: specifically, some of the comments by elena directed at ‘me’:

elena, i have no interest in comparing ouspensky/gurdjieff with dr. steiner here it’s beside the point — (for the ‘stoners’ reading this, translated from the german, ‘steiner’ in english is ‘stoner’). more germane to this blog is how individual human beings tend to gravitate toward cult formation around particular ‘charismatic’ individuals. elena, i’m sure you could continue to ‘say’ a lot on the topic based on your direct experience… elena, maybe you want to get personal with me, maybe not? you have my email address… use it if and when you are able to recognize me as an individual and want to address me as such (rather than lumping me in your mind with “these people”). otherwise, i would ask you to keep my moniker away from your fingertips.

0, and thanks to all who stick-around here and especially you dragon for your continuing outside perspective on the fof madness.

22. nigel harris price - February 1, 2009

18 giorgio

Be patient with the blog and, as you so rightly say, filter out what is ‘negative to the point that it would be unhelpful’. You will find some very supportive HUMAN BEINGS, who are, I believe, following their Fourth Way. It took me many years to ‘satibilize’ after leaving the FOF. May you receive what you want here and know that there are friends for Your Journey…..Nigel.

23. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 1, 2009

18. GIORGIO:

‘I runned into this site a few days ago, while i was looking in internet for some information of some old good friend from the fof i needed to find, i have not had any contact with any former or current student since i left.’

If you are looking to connect with prior FoF members, see the paragraph at the top of this page that covers the Greater Fellowship. There are over 900 on that site. Most are former fellowship, family and friends of former members, and others interested in the fourth way. There is also a ‘Friendsquest’ area on the main page where you can ask about people you knew. You can also check the ‘Members’ area to see if you know anyone. There is no cost or obligation; just your time and effort to subscribe. Welcome here and there and anywhere.

24. Panorea - February 1, 2009

Hi Giorgio,

join the Greater Fellowship for finding your old friends. There are some interesting groups about emotional healing, people post regularly and you can see their faces, you know who they are.

The blog has a different function. I only know three or four people who write here. The reason I personally write from time to time is because the blog helped me when I was struggling with my decision to leave. The main person who helped was the guy called DC. His way of writing and thinking was so twisted and so clearly damaged that opened my eyes.

There are many pages and posts on this forum that are masterpieces on compassion, understanding and revealing of the maddening nature of the Fellowship of Friends and the damaged leader Robert Burton. Do not dismiss it because you happened to join on page 63. Go back to the other pages and go forward to what is to come. Page 63 is part of life too.

25. Panorea - February 1, 2009

Tatyana,

I used to run away when I would feel hurt. I learned to stay and take it in. It is much more interesting to see what is actually going on inside me. I prefer to look at myself feeling hurt and afraid because then I acknowledge who I am at uncomfortable moments. It is like bringing parts together, parts that I learned to separate for whatever reason.

You do not write for one person here. I do not know why you write but you affect more individuals. I read your posts and they help me add to the whole picture.

26. elena - February 1, 2009

Tatyana, do that, I was whispering. If I talk you’ll disintegrate!

_____________

And To all,

You haven’t done anything here, had you done something, this might not have happened.

Tragedies happen because people are not willing to do anything to avoid them.

You want to blame someone for what happens here? Do me the honor.

I take full responsibility for myself.

You will continue to see people committing suicide in cults if you do nothing about it.

Giorgio, I’ll leave you my place if you want to stay. Thanks for the photographs!
Ton, don’t worry, what we can’t do in public, we won’t manage any better in private.

27. elena - February 1, 2009

Tatyana,

When I talked you didn’t hear
When I screamed
You talked
When I whispered
You run away.

It is normal in cult victims,
don’t blame your self.

Giorgio,

Thank you for recognizing the bitchiness,
the reaction was the same without it,
now you have an excuse!

Good luck!

28. elena - February 1, 2009

I mean of course: Tatayna, Giorgio and All.

29. elena - February 1, 2009

Giorgio,

let me rephrase that so that you don’t take it personally:

Thank you for recognizing the bitchiness,
the reaction was the same without it,
now there’s an excuse!

30. Postminimalist - February 1, 2009

Panorea at 3: “One of the issues for many of us who joined, stayed and keep on staying in the Cult is self-medication. How ofter did you remember yourself today? Did you work with your suffering? Did you not express negativity? Did you pay your teaching payments before you paid your rent? How many sequences you managed to finish and how did you do with your four wordless breaths dear? Lots of cheap “psychological” thinking to alleviate the pain and traumas.”

***************

Good term: self-medication. This is what people were talking about on the previous pages: finding different words to describe the “work words.” So instead, of “buffer,” call it self-medication. It gives you a different understanding of the word apart from the FOF’s way of thinking about it. It helps you see that — yes — is a buffer.

Imagine for a moment if you could be one of the following two people:

• The plug is pulled on the FOF. It’s gone kaput, vanished. And because you have placed all of your “self” in the FOF, the plug is pulled on you as well. You too are gone, kaput, vanished. There’s nothing left because your lifeline (the self-medication that you describe above)… is gone.

–or–

• The plug is pulled on the FOF. It’s gone kaput, vanished. But because you have something within you that is completely separate from the FOF, self-contained, strong, and able, and because you didn’t depend on the self-medication of the FOF… you thrive.

Which of the above two people would you choose to be?

****************

There is something to replace the self-medication: Reflection, meditation, and self-examination are examples.

Reading a book, listening to a lecture and critiquing it with friends over a glass of wine or some coffee or tea, walking in nature, asking someone a series of thoughtful questions to learn more about them, listening well during a conversation, being open to new ideas and new ways of thinking, going to a museum and clearing your thoughts, listening to any type of music, seeking out friends, and continuing to seek them out. Attracting good people into your life, and they attracting you. Finding inspiration in the beauty of nature or in the shapes and sizes of buildings and bridges. Never giving up, never allowing yourself to get discouraged for too long because there is too much to do and too much to be encouraged about. Studying a new language, Spanish, Italian, French, German, or Russian, even though you’re 65 years old. Taking up painting, learning to crochet or knit, writing down your thoughts in a journal, studying computer language, joining a motorcycle club and meeting new friends, getting yourself a puppy and learning how to train him, meeting girls or guys on the beach or in the park because you have a new puppy, treating your children to an impromptu trip to the movie theater when they thought they were going to raking the leaves in the yard, doing some volunteer work for no reason other than it makes you feel good to do volunteer work and to meet people and help people. Getting a good feeling about not feeling guilty or second-guessing yourself for doing volunteer work. Calling a friend who hasn’t called you in months or years. Thinking it probably won’t amount to anything, but calling them anyway. Studying yoga. Studying meditation. Listening to a book on tape while you make a long drive. Sitting quietly with your spouse or your boyfriend or girlfriend or your partner, and just listening to the birds on the back bushes, both of you with a mug of coffee and the newspaper. Finding the tears well up in your eyes when you see a good movie, and ditching that thought that says this is a chick flick or it’s too sentimental. And just running with it and being thankful for it. Doing some breathing exercises. Relaxing and taking a deep breath in the middle of a stressful work day. Trying to be natural — not a good student, but a good person. Being open to other, new ideas about what it means to be a good person. Learning a new art or craft. Taking a class at a community college. Noticing how much people are awake and alive and vibrant when you look down a crowded street.

31. brucelevy - February 1, 2009

32. dragon - February 1, 2009

Elena,

You will never go! Please, stay with us! It is over, the FOF mess is over!
Nobody want’s to hurt you (apart from the FOF hardliners but you know their “style”)

Effortlessly for You:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=mXdFtFzAd3w

She lives in a picture on my wall,
Her face a little blurred…
And I can still remember, her gaze,
I hear it call…

She lights up my days, and darkens my nights, so effortlessly…
She lights up my days, and darkens my nights, so effortlessly…

I’m forever drawing circles
In the corner of the page,
At the back of the book
Where my life story ends,
And the music begins…

Outside, as the rain begins to fall,
I try to read her name…
And I can still remember, her voice,
I hear it singing out…

She lights up my days, and darkens my nights, so effortlessly…
She lights up my days, and darkens my nights, so effortlessly…

I’m forever drawing circles
In the corner of the page,
At the back of the book
Where my life story ends,
And the music begins…

I’m forever drawing circles
In the corner of the page,
At the back of the book
Where my life story ends,
And the music begins…

Copyright Paul Keskeys. 2006

33. sharon - February 1, 2009

postminimalist 30 – from “There is something to replace the self-medication: Reflection, meditation, and self-examination are examples.” to the end of your post –
a very good description of the possibities in life post-FOF.
Thank you.

34. elena - February 1, 2009

Giorgio,

Took your advice and went to the shrink who gave me a handful of anti-depressants for life and told me to blwog my head off.

Sorry, but I promise I won’t insult you again no matter what you say!
and Tatyana also, you are safe, he said I’d be thoroughly tamed!

35. elena - February 1, 2009

He also said that for those who need the club, the greater Fellowship is greater and for those who like the club it would be good to take advantage. If my public life is like my marriages it shouldn’t last more than three years.

I thank you Giorgio for your consideration and wise decision!

36. elena - February 1, 2009

Most importantly, he said that everyone would be safe if I don’t write a month before my period!

37. nigel harris price - February 1, 2009

33 elena

Glad you found treatment ‘to take the edge off’. I was really worried about you. A ‘shrink’ is sometimes a good solution but, in the end, we all have to get in there and live our lives. Remember, you talked about love? If you can, take time to read Corinthians 1: Chapter 13…
…especially “love is patient”…..Nigel.

38. elena - February 1, 2009

Oops, sorry, he meant the day before.

39. elena - February 1, 2009

I will Nigel love! I promise!

40. elena - February 1, 2009

Actually if you’ve got it on the internet and care to lay it out you’d make it easier for me.

41. elena - February 1, 2009

I mean only if you have it with you Nigel, otherwise, I’ll try to find it myself

If it is beautiful for you, there’s no reason for it to not be shared here

42. nigel harris price - February 1, 2009

Dear Elena

This is so powerful, it always makes me cry each time I read it…..Nigel

1 Corinthians 13 : 1 – 13

A reading from the first letter of Paul to the Corinthians.
1 If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude.
5 It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth.
7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part;
10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end.
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

43. elena - February 2, 2009

Nigel, that is absolutely beautiful, thank you.

I dedicate it to Tatyana and Giorgio, We are there and all and sincerely apologize for the tremendous rudeness with which I treated you!

44. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 2, 2009

To use a ‘Price’-less word:
‘Funnily,’ ‘Took your advice and went to the shrink who. . .’
describes the opposite of what we are trying to do with ourselves. That is, we are not trying to ‘shrink’ our awarenesses or brains, but rather, expand our awarenesses or brains.

45. elena - February 2, 2009

Wouldn’t you like to Know,

Thank you for still being here.

I hope you realize I’m making fun of myself and making this all up. It would go totally against me to take anything for this horror that is difficult to bear with. But I mean my apologies. I will not hurt you again Tatyana unless you totally take advantage of that and abuse me. Please feel free to be here. I will not defraud abnormally normal human being in his suggestion that you give me another chance. This is my last apology so that I do not tire you further.

Nigel, I’m curious about this: When this crisis started you were going into a manic phase. Was the tension so high that you didn’t? That it kept you out of it? That’s my impression but let me know.
I also want to thank you again for your post 36 and 41. You are beautifully human Nigel and fast! I incline myself before you in awe. Allow me also to apologize to you, I also dismissed your kindness in my horror.

46. nigel harris price - February 2, 2009

44 elena

What it is, Elena, is that I have learned to be a ‘problem solver’ for myself, with my illness (you are correct, I went low-high then level, as I am now) and resourceful in my teaching, which ‘rubs off’ in the way I approach the blog. I hate to see people suffer unneccessarily and wish the best for them…..Nigel.

47. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 2, 2009

Price – less, Nigel. And here is KJV:

1 Corinthians Chapter 13
King James Version:

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

48. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 2, 2009

31. brucelevy

Thanks for that link; lots of fun.

49. nigel harris price - February 2, 2009

46 Wouldnt You Like To Know

Charity comes from the Latin ‘caritas’, one of the ancient forms of love, and means, obviously, caring, or human love. The other forms are ‘eros’, or physical love, (from which is derived the word erotic) and ‘agape’, which is the highest form of love, and can be best translated as ’empathy’ (a god-like quality and could be thought of as ‘your pain in my heart’)…..Nigel.

“God be in my heart, and in my understanding” (Book of Common Prayer)

50. elena - February 2, 2009

It’s four in the morning but I can’t sleep so I thought I’d peep in. That’s wonderful Nigel, I’m glad the tension at least helped someone. Let me ask you, is that rare? That a phase would be deviated? In other words does it happen often that it can be deviated once it has started?

I was thinking about my reactions and considered that although I really do feel much stronger now than two years ago when I left the Fellowship, it is a strength that can react to abuse firmly but cannot yet transform it as I’ve been able to do in other moments of my life and that you have in fact channelled quite a few times here before. I’ve tended to look at your “channelling” that energy as the effect of being somewhat sedated but your expressions of love in the recent posts are way above that. Thank you again.

Wouldn’t you like to know,

That version is so different to the one Nigel presented. It is also beautiful but less direct about love. Do you have any possible interpretation for that?

Yes Bruce, I also appreciated your song.

Wouldn’t you like to know,
I see; someone replaced love for charity or vice versa. Charity, generosity, consideration… the ability to consider the context. I enjoy the love version a great deal because it is so ample but the charity version involves the mind or what we could have termed the intellectual part of the emotional center if we ever used it properly. It feels like that because although for there to be charity there has to be love, it involves a focused aspect of it.

Nice, thank you for repeating the version.

I had a powerful dream last night as many in these recent nights. I was shooting at people in war armour but only their face would get shot, which I couldn’t see and as soon as each one received the shot a black tube longer than a dog’s nozzle would appear in their face like in those films of extraterrestrials. It felt similar to shooting at bloggers who I did not know who they were, people without a name, without a face.

I was about to shoot at a boy but he was my son’s friend who knew he couldn’t stop me from shooting but tried to change his armour for the boys so that I would shoot him instead. That made me feel and see my self who until then was not involved.

I’ll try to go back to sleep now. Have a blue, sunny day!

51. nigel harris price - February 2, 2009

49 elena

I’ve got to do some thinking about the sedation and channelling, since there is not really an easy answer. I will get back to you tonight (our time – mid-day your time). Lots of caritas…..Nigel.

52. Postminimalist - February 2, 2009

Giorgio: Thanks for joining the discussion and sharing your thoughts. The following particularly jumped out at me:

“It was said also that the way begins when someone is really disappointed, are we disappointed enough to start a new beginning?
It says, that a man can tell the truth by accident, that it was crazy RB did and maybe still does “he speaks” lots of nonsense, but sometimes like blind cupid, shoots to whoever is on the way something that can be used to the inner and personal work, i believe that everything has a reason and we deserve what we get, we are responsible.”

************

About the idea of “being present” that we were taught in the FOF… That may be one of those truths that we were taught by accident. However, the FOF version of “being present” is usually something passive, and rarely active. I think part of that is that an active presence would ultimately pull you away from the FOF.

An active presence makes change possible. It makes it possible to think anew and act anew, and to be open to new ideas and new directions. In other words, you can “be present” while you are running as fast as you can toward a new life. And in some ways this is a much more genuine and sincere presence that the presence we usually think of from our time in the FOF.

For me to leave the FOF, and to stop seeing myself as and “ex-student” (which, by the way, is almost just as big of a step), I needed to shift gradually to an understanding that “being present” wasn’t synonymous with sitting passively while trying to see and hear more clearly (for example, in fof lingo, the looking and listening exercise), and so forth. But you can “be present” while realizing an extraordinary need to change something, and change now.

And not just that often nebulous “internal” change, but real, concrete, healthy, and definite “external” change.

Did I use the word “external” enough in this post? There: Let me use it again. External change. It’s a good thing.

53. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 2, 2009

’48. nigel harris price
46 Wouldnt You Like To Know

Charity comes from the Latin ‘caritas’, one of the ancient forms of love, and means, obviously, caring, or human love.

The other forms are ‘eros’, or physical love, (from which is derived the word erotic) and ‘agape’, which is the highest form of love, and can be best translated as ‘empathy’ (a god-like quality and could be thought of as ‘your pain in my heart’)…..Nigel.

“God be in my heart, and in my understanding” (Book of Common Prayer)’

Again, nige, you are price – less in your opening the door to etymological study of this charity/love comparison. It is worth exploring. One must consider beyond the Latin to Greek sources as well. Greek being a significant origin of western language and thought.

This christian word study document, a .pdf of some 20 pages and ~500Kb (downloadable), examines the word ‘Charis’ in excruciating detail:
http://www.prairieviewchristian.org/downloads/written/word_studies/greek/charis.pdf
Here is an excerpt:
(Greek characters may not be preserved properly)

‘Charis:

A. Charis (xavri$) has the following cognates:
1. Chara (xarav) (noun), “joy, rejoicing, merriness, filled with joy”
2. Sunchairo (sugxaivrw) (verb), “to rejoice with”
3. Chairo (xavirw) (noun), “to rejoice, be glad”
4. Charizomai (xarivzomai) (verb), “to be gracious to someone, to forgive”
5. Charitoo (xaritovw) (verb), “to give grace, to bestow favor”
6. Acharistos (a)xavristo$) (adjective), “ungrateful, without thanks”
7. Charisma (xavrisma) (noun), “a gracious gift, grace, favor”
8. Eucharisteo (eu)xaristevw) (verb), “to be thankful, to give thanks”
9. Eucharistia (eu)xaristiva) (noun), “thankfulness, thanksgiving, gratitude”
10. Eucharistos (eu)caristevw) (adjective), “grateful, thankful”

B. Classical:
1. Archbishop Trench writes of charis, “It refers to the heart or essence of the Greek mind…charis also referred to the presence of grace or beauty, which were the most joy-inspiring of all qualities for the Greek” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 181).
2. Charis is first of all that property that produces joy in its hearers or beholders.
3. It also referred to the presence of grace or beauty, which were the most joy-inspiring of all qualities for the Greek.
4. Over a period of time, charis ceased to refer to grace and beauty as qualities and came to refer to gracious or beautiful things, acts, thoughts, speech, or persons.
5. It came to refer to grace that embodied and expressed itself in gracious actions toward objects, not to favor in the sense of beauty.
6. The usage of the word evolved over a period of time in Greek.
7. It initially referred to grace and beauty as qualities and then to gracious persons or actions, beautiful thoughts or speeches.
8. It referred to grace that expressed itself in gracious actions toward people or things such as favors.
9. Charis is from the Greek root char, which indicates things that produce well being, pleasure, benefit and happiness.
10. This word group appears quite often in Paul’s letter to the Philippians.
11. The noun chairo appears 9 times.
12. The noun chara appears 5 times.
13. The verb sunchairo appears twice.
14. The verb charizomai appears twice.
15. The verb charitoo, the adjective acharistos, the noun charisma, and the adjective eucharistos do not appear at all in Philippians.
16. The verb eucharisteo appears once in Philippians.
17. The noun eucharistia appears once in Philippians. The noun charis appears 3 times.
19. Initially, there was not a great distinction placed between chara and charis in classical Greek.
20. They both had the same basic meaning since they are based upon the same root.
21. Chara is the joy and happiness experienced as a result of charis, which is that which brings well being among men.
22. Chara is the individual experience or expression of this well being and is what delights and is often unexpected and undeserved.
23. In Greek mythology, charis was personified as with the beautiful wife of Hephaestus and the Graces who are the creators and bestowers of charm.
24. Charis in the objective sense meant “outward grace or favor, beauty of persons.”
25. In the subjective sense, the word meant “grace or favor felt, whether on the part of the doer or the receiver.”
26. For the doer, charis meant, “grace, kindness for or towards someone,” and for the receiver, it meant “a sense of favor received, thankfulness, gratitude.”
27. The word was also used for a favor done or returned and it was also used of women who gave sexual favors to men.
28. Charis referred to “gratification and delight” in or from a thing.
29. Charis not only designated both the attitude of the gods but also that of men such as a ruler’s favor.
30. In classical literature, charis is the favor of the gods in Aeschylus’ works Agamemnon.
31. Trench states “charis implied a favor that was freely done without claim or expectation of return.” (Synonyms of the New Testament).
32. The Greeks used the word in reference to a favor done by one Greek to another out of sheer generosity and with no expectation of payment in return or no expectation of reward.
33. Charis referred to giving with no strings attached.
34. Weust writes, “the Greek word (charis) referred to an action that was beyond the ordinary course of what might be expected, and was therefore commendable” (Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, volume 2, page 29).
35. Aristotle uses charis in this same manner, he writes, “Let charis be that quality by which he who has it is said to render favor (charin) to one who is in need, not in return for anything, nor that anything be given to him who renders it, but that something be given to that one in need.” (Rhetorica 2.7).
36. Therefore, the basic fundamental definition of charis in classical Greek includes the ideas of “grace, an undeserved favor, kindness, goodness, beauty, gratitude, thankfulness, delight, and pleasure.”
37. In the Hellenistic period, charis was a term for demonstrations of a ruler’s favor.
38. The word was mainly used in the plural for “gifts.”
39. In Hellenism, to show charis to people came to suggest favoritism.
40. It was also used for the showing of grace in court.
41. Euripides used it for the power of love (Hipp. 527).
42. Charis also referred to supernatural power, which flowed from the gods above.
43. It referred to a spell or demonic force that affects human life with supernatural influences.
44. Liddel and Scott (Greek-English Lexicon, New Edition, pages 1978-1979): a) in objective sense, outward grace or favor, beauty, prop. of person or their portraits. b) in subjective sense, grace or favor felt, whether on the part of the doer or the receiver; grace, kindness. c) goodwill; sense of favor received, thankfulness, gratitude. d) in concrete sense, a favor done or returned, boon; return a favor; grant made in legal form. e) gratification, delight. f) homage due to them, their worship, majesty; thank-offering. g) Special usages: favor, for his pleasure, for his sake; for the sake of, on behalf of, on account of; being a favor; from partiality; gratefully; pleasing; of pure good will. h) metaphorically of the cypress, myrtle.
. . .

D. New Testament (NT):
1. Charis is found approximately 155 times in the NT.
2. It is found mostly in the Pauline corpus where it occurs approximately 100 times.
3. The word does not occur in Mark, Matthew, 1st and 3rd John.
4. It is used only in the salutations.
5. The word charis does not always refer specifically to the doctrine of grace for it can mean “thanks, thank-offering, to enjoy with thanks.”
6. It occupies a special place in the salutations in the Greek NT and final greetings.
7. Charis in the Greek NT was elevated from referring to an earthly benefit to referring to a heavenly one, from signifying the favor, grace and goodness of man to man, to signifying the favor, grace and goodness of God to man.
8. In NT usage charis denotes the grace of the worthy to the unworthy, of the holy to the sinful.
9. It had never had this meaning before, even in the Hebrew word that approximate the meaning of charis in the NT chesedh, which is not translated by charis (except in Esther 2:9) but usually be eleos.
10. The essence of charis in the Greek NT is that it is unearned and unmerited.
11. The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon (pages 665-666): a) prop. that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness. b) good-will, loving kindness, favor. c) attends and assists one. d) used of the kindness of a master towards his inferiors or servants, and so especially of God towards men. e) used of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting His holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of Christian virtues. f) the grace of God promoting the progress and blessings of the Christian religion; sustaining and aiding the efforts of the men who labor for the cause of Christ; assisting and strengthening his followers and ministers to bear their troubles. g) what is due to grace; the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace; a token or proof of grace; a gift of grace; benefaction, bounty; the aid or succor of divine grace; of the various
blessings of Christ experienced by souls; capacity and ability due to the grace of God; the aggregate of the extremely diverse powers and gifts granted to Christians; used of the power to undertake and administer the apostolic office; of the gifts and knowledge bestowed upon Christians. h) thanks (for benefits, services, favors); recompense, reward.’

And, on, and on.

Summary: Sounds like a whole lot of lovin’ goin’ on.

Our English words:
Charisma
Eucharist
contain this root: Charis.

Elsewhere:
Mythology:

THE GRACES, (Lat. Gratiae), in Greek mythology, the personification of
grace and charm, both in nature and in moral action. The transition from a single goddess, Charis, to a number or group of Charites, is marked in Homer. In the Iliad one Charis is the wife of Hephaestus, another the promised wife of Sleep, while the plural Charites often occurs. The Charites are usually described as three in number – Aglaia (brightness), Euphrosyne (joyfulness), Thalia (bloom) – daughters of Zeus and Hera (or Eurynome, daughter of Oceanus), or of Helios and Aegle; in Sparta, however, only two were known, Cleta (noise) and Phaenna (light), as at Athens Auxo (increase) and Hegemone (queen). They are the friends of the Muses, with whom they live on Mount Olympus, and the
companions of Aphrodite, of Peitho, the goddess of persuasion, and of Hermes, the god of eloquence, to each of whom charm is an indispensable adjunct. The need of their assistance to the artist is indicated by the union of Hephaestus and Charis.

According to Homer’s Iliad, Hephaestus (A.K.A: Hephastus (Vulcan); fashioned the lightening bolts that Zeus let loose.) had a wife called Aglaea, who was one of the Charites (Graces).

The Charites, or Graces, are the
personifications of charm and beauty
in nature and in human life. They love all things beautiful and bestow talent upon mortals. Together with the Muses they serve as sources of inspiration in poetry and the arts. Originally, they were goddesses of fertility and nature, closely associated with the underworld and the Eleusinian mysteries.

54. elena - February 2, 2009

You explain my violence so basely
Avidly
Frantically
Tyrannically
That I wonder if it is my violence you explain
Or yours

You frame my soul
And neglect my spirit

You press on me with your foot
And fail to see my hand caressing you
Pressing on me
Until I shoot.

I bark
But you keep hitting me with the stick
Until you feel the bite.

You think you’re a fisherman of men
But you’re a hunter of slaves.

Shall we turn the page?
And look at the beauty without forgetting the beast?
Dialogue without forgetting the spirit?
Debate considering the state?

The subject at hand is the beast
Don’t try to ignore it
All beasts are tamed with love
The ones inside as much as those outside

Not looking is not seeing
You can’t defeat a bull that you’re not willing to look at.
The majesty within the bull
Cannot stand without your acknowledgement.

You cannot tame the bull
You indulge him until it dies.
He thinks he’s got you
But dies in the illusion.

55. elena - February 2, 2009

Wouldn’t you like to know

Your exclusion reveals your caritas. Thank you for your text.

56. elena - February 2, 2009

Continuing with my work on The Rape of the Mind, the following text from Chapter 4.

Text 14
The Need to Collapse

The vocabulary of psychopathology contains many sophisticated terms for the wish to succumb to mental pressure, such as “wish to regress,” “dependency need,” “mental masochism,” “unconscious death wish,” and many others. For our purposes, however, it is enough to state that every individual has two opposing needs which operate simultaneously: the need to be independent to be oneself; and the need NOT to be oneself, NOT to be anybody at all, NOT to resist mental pressure.

The need to be inconspicuous, to disappear, and to be swallowed up by society is a common one. In its simplest form we can see it all around us as a tendency to conform. Under ordinary circumstances the need for anonymity is balanced by the need for individuality, and the mentally healthy person is one who can walk the fine line between them. But in the frightening, lonely situaitons in which the victims of menticidal terror find themselves — situations which have a nightmare quality, which are crammed with dangers so tremendous they cannot be grasped or understood because there is nobody to explain or reassure — the wish to collapse, to let go, to be not there, becomes almost irresistable.

This experience was reported by many concentration-camp victims. They had come into camp with one unanswered question buring in their minds: “Why has all this happened to me?” Their need for a sense of direction, for a feeling of purpose and meaning was unsatisfied, and hence they could not maintain their personalities. They let themselves go in what psychopathology calls a depersonalization syndrome, a general feeing of having lost complete control of themselves and their own existence. What Pavlovian conditioning can do in applying artficial confusion, can be done too by one shocking experience. “For what?” they asked themselves. “What is the meaning of all this suffering?” And gradually they sank dully into that paralyzed state of semi-oblivion we call depression: the self-destructive needs take over.

The Nazis were clever and unscrupulous in taking advantage of this need to collapse. The humiliation of concentration-camp life, the repeated suggestion that the Allies wre as good as beaten — they conspired to convince the inmates that there would be no end to this pointless suffering, no victorious conclusion to the war, no future to their lives. The desire to break down, to give in, becomes almost insurmountable when a man feels that this horrible marginal existence is something permanent, that he cannot look toward a more personal goal, that he has to adjust to this dulling, degrading life forever.

At the moment faith and hope disappear, man breaks down. There are tragic stories of concentration-camp victims who fixed all their expectations on the idea that liberation would come on Christmas, 1944, and aimed their entire existence toward that date. When it passed and they were still incarcerated, many of them simply collapsed and died.

This tendency to collapse also serves as a protective device against danger. The victim seems to think, “If my torturer doesn’t notice me, he will leave me alone.” And yet this very feeling of anonymity, this sense of losing one’s personality, of being useless, unnoticed and unwanted, also results in depression and apathy. Man’s need to be an individual can never be completely killed.

_____The conflict that is being talked about here is also related to the part and the whole, the individual and the community, self consciousness or consciousness of one’s self. The same vibration that impulses a man to live a social life, struggles within him to become conscious of it, that is, to move from the particularity of himself to the integration of his being with the whole.
Life is the stage in which this struggle takes place both individually and socially. Social conflict reveals the state of the masses’ consciousness; individual conflict, reveals the state of the individual’s consciousness. Conflict is a necessary step for evolution.

57. nigel harris price - February 2, 2009

54 elena

My body-type – Solar/Martial/Jovial. The Solar manifests itself in an immature, positive but self-contained manner about the world (and the blog is quite worldly), expecting the best from people and having problems with others’ negativity. The Martial has the feature of fear but can retaliate quite adroitly when challenged. The Jovial part is the one that can use all that literature it has learned and has in ‘the little library’. It can, like the Solar, artistically make for a positive environment. My centre of gravity is the moving part of the King of Hearts (that is where the artistry comes from) and I can visualise methods for healing, having discriminated the problem. I hope this helps, even a little, and I would be glad to talk further…..Nigel.

58. elena - February 2, 2009

Thank you Nigel love,

I’ve talked plenty already today. We can continue with our friends… for ever! Time is on our side!

59. Postminimalist - February 2, 2009

“A song ain’t nothing but a conversation fixed up to where you can talk it over and over without getting tired of it.”
–Woody Guthrie

60. We Were There - February 2, 2009

I am still a big fan of the Fourth Way

As I currently see it, my big(gest) mistake was to mistake the Fellowship of Friends for a Fourth Way school, especially after Robert Burton began to veer away from fundamental Fourth Way tenets in the late 1970’s. It took me fifteen more years to leave.

For me the principle goal and value of this blog is to help current members see that there is life (and hope) after the Fellowship and that there are many people out here who ‘know we do not know,’ and are making the effort to not express negativity and to struggle with imagination – people who deeply understand their (our!) predicament and will help if we can.

Thanks to the blog moderator (and to the Sheik!) for this opportunity to communicate.

61. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 2, 2009

59:”For me the principle goal and value of this blog is to help current members see that there is life (and hope) after the Fellowship and that there are many people out here who ‘know we do not know,’ and are making the effort to not express negativity and to struggle with imagination – people who deeply understand their (our!) predicament and will help if we can.”

Whoa! This one’s loaded. One of the most damaging aspects of spending 20-30 plus years not expressing negativity is that there was no instruction on a personal level of what to do with that energy. Therefore most people suppressed it.

I agree that the non-expression of negativity is nicer to be around but when asking a group of people to not express negativity or anger without any instruction on how to use the energy it can produce illness, either psychically or physically.

And I personally did not have the level of understanding when I joined (in my 20’s) to transform that fine energy either. I like myself better when I can ‘control’ my negativity but even now the ‘practice’ of spending over 20 years suppressing it has been quite damaging to my spirit.

I think it is important for people leaving the Fellowship to understand they had wrong instruction from Mr. REB.

62. Kid Shelleen - February 2, 2009

The non-expression of negative emotions as espoused in the Fof and the 4th way is a very large pile of horse manure.

“When God gives you AIDS, and it is God who gives you AIDS, make Lemon-AIDS.” — Sarah Silverman.

63. elena - February 2, 2009

For me the problem is that we don’t stop expressing negativity in the Fellowship, we stop affirming ourselves with the necessary strength which turns against us while creating dependency on Robert and the barbie form of “everything is perfect under the sun”.

64. Postminimalist - February 2, 2009

Kid: “The non-expression of negative emotions as espoused in the Fof and the 4th way is a very large pile of horse manure.”

The non-expression of negative emotions is one of the many ways that Burton controls dissent.

There’s more to it than that, but that’s one of my bigger concerns with it. It keeps the cult running smoothly. Simple formula: No dissent = No change.

Regarding We We There’s comments, I’m no longer a fan of the Fourth Way. I also don’t dismiss it entirely. But I’ve become a Fourth Way agnostic after realizing that many of the Fourth Way ideas became excellent tools for a cult leader to control his followers. While this doesn’t automatically discount all Fourth Way ideas, I did become more of a skeptic as the years passed. In my view, the best aspects of it are found elsewhere.

Anyway, I agree with: “For me the principle goal and value of this blog is to help current members see that there is life (and hope) after the Fellowship and that there are many people out here who ‘know we do not know’ …”

I also agree with Wakeup regarding the non-expression of negative emotions and the negative mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health effects of it in the FOF. Sometimes a shift in attitude away from negative thoughts is a good thing. Sometimes a shift in attitude toward negative thoughts is a good thing.

Also, in Ouspensky’s “Notes on the Decision to Work,” there’s a very interesting use of the word “obey.” It’s a “red flag.” We should talk more about red flags.

65. Postminimalist - February 2, 2009

I agree Elena. That’s a good question too. Whatever anyone thinks of the idea in theory, do we — as a group — really do it in practice? Just a question that’s rarely asked because it would be expressing skepticism — another thing that isn’t allowed there.

66. dragon - February 2, 2009

61.

FOF:

What’s this in AID(S) of?

I lke Sarah S. (Wasn’t she F—– Matt Damon?)

If our houses were horse manure-heated we could exploit the large pile!

67. elena - February 2, 2009

68. whalerider - February 2, 2009

tatyana:
Hopefully you will return and not be another causality of elena’s rage. Eventually she will learn that “affirming ourselves with the necessary strength” doesn’t necessarily include insulting and demeaning others who disagree with you. Burton silences his followers with his shameful acts. Never let another person’s rage silence you, either. It’s important that we stand up for each other, in in the face of contempt.

Thank you for your support. Your contributions are valuable here.

69. Kid Shelleen - February 2, 2009

Dragon:

Actually, I got my synapses crossed. The Silverman quote is more in keeping with my opinion on the transformation of suffering. Another fof/4th concept I’m skeptical about. There was orignally more to that post, but I deleted most of it and didn’t have my editor proof read the thing before pushing “say it.”

70. elena - February 2, 2009

Nigel, Wouldn’t you like to know, Whalerider, Ton, Tatyana, We were there, Giorgio and All,

In gratitude for your love this morning Nigel, may I offer this although today I’ve already written my share.

Thank you for your presentation of this Corinthians and its expansion, it is the first time I make a vivid connection with the bible. This is to me, the most important and beautiful text we’ve dealt with on the blog. It can help us understand a great many things.

Part 1.
A depressed I, that is, an individual who has lost contact with himself in an environment of brain control and dictatorship, quickly loses charm. Charm in the best sense of the word is the expression of grace. What the Fellowship most lacks is grace. Joy and charm in regular life are expressions of grace that has not been corrupted. It is what we tended to understand as essence: The spiritual in the world without the consciousness of it. Human beings are like fish in a Spiritual Ocean. Conscious human beings are no different to regular human beings; they simply know their humanity as well as their spirituality without becoming confused by either and on the contrary interpenetrating both with infinite harmony.

The danger of cults and other authoritarian mind control environments is that they literally suck life and love from the people involved. The state of depression, fear, false stereotyped identity, repeated rituals without spontaneity, conditioned behaviour, restriction, monotony, forced stability, forced order, all suck life and love away from the members.

What we have most lost in our age is the understanding that life and love flow from the interactions with each other and our selves. The connection between an individual and him or herself and that individual and the world is a lemniscate in motion. A man or a woman who has worked on him or herself does not HAVE anything different to one who has not, the difference between them lies in that he or she opens the flow between his self or herself and the world for his or her self is the spirit of the world which lives inside of him as well as outside of him or her. Each man or woman carries within him or herself the Spirit of the world. The Spirit of the World has no name, or rather, if you could put the name of every human being that has ever been alive or will live together, that would be the name of the Spirit and the World in which we live is its language. The way we interact with each other and the world around us reveals the state of grace or disgrace in which we live.

Grace and disgrace are the experiences of that reality. Joy flows from grace and misery from disgrace. Grace revitalizes itself by the confirmation of its reality in the lives of men. Every interaction between people is retribution or a depletion of love or grace for the sake of itself and the life of human beings. For the sake of itself or for the spiritual flow. Grace is the “blood” of the spiritual world.

There is no life without grace and it is no coincidence that severe illnesses and a tendency to commit suicide develop in cults and other such environments.

In One’s presence, Grace flows and the individual is invaded by charm and gratitude. Gratitude is the daughter of Grace. It is a gift from the God-Men to the Men-God.
All men deserve such a gift: it is our birthright. When presented with it, no man knows himself worthy of it and humility is born within himself, humility and pride. The humility of knowing that he is not worthy of it and the pride of having been graced with it, nevertheless: The Pride of knowing himself or herself as a human being.

71. elena - February 2, 2009

I’m sorry, I had not seen your post Whalerider before sending in the last one. Forgive me for including you if it offends you or Tatyana

72. elena - February 2, 2009

Whalerider,

I do not take back anything I’ve said to you, nor do I ask you to forgive me but I live happy in the fact that I have already forgiven you, please forgive your self.

73. elena - February 3, 2009

Whalerider,

What I will ask of you is to give me a little more time to heal. Not much. You have been out of the Fellowship for twenty three years, I have only been out for less than two. I was so badly hurt that as you’ve noticed there’s hardly any charm left.

74. Postminimalist - February 3, 2009
75. Postminimalist - February 3, 2009

Real news item from last year. See link above. A key quote in the article: “Everything that he preaches has to do with people buying something.”

===========================

Texas Sect Leader: Doomsday Begins Next Thursday, June 12
Thousands Follow Self-Proclaimed Prophet Yisrayl ‘Buffalo Bill’ Hawkins of Abilene

June 6, 2008

Nuclear war will begin next Thursday, June 12, or sooner, according to the latest prediction of self-proclaimed prophet Yisrayl “Buffalo Bill” Hawkins, the founder of a religious sect in Abilene, Texas.
Founder of a religious sect in Texas predicts the world will end June 12.

“It could be turned loose before then,” Hawkins told 20/20 for a report to be broadcast tonight. “You’re going to see this very soon, really soon,” he said.

Hundreds of truck trailers have been loaded with food and water on the group’s 44-acre compound, in preparation for the coming war.

Unfortunately for Hawkins, it is not the first time he predicted the outbreak of nuclear war.

Most recently, Hawkins set Sept. 12, 2006 as the beginning of the end.

His followers produced an on-line video with a countdown to doomsday.

In Kenya, hundreds of his followers actually hid in basement bomb shelters and donned gas masks on the date.

They went home in humiliation when there was no war.

Hawkins says he does not care if people consider him a laughing stock.

“You know, the savior himself, told me not to worry about that. He said, ‘They’re going to hate you above all people on the face of the earth,’ ” Hawkins explained.

Former members say there is a method to Hawkins’ madness, that the doomsday predictions help him make money and keep disillusioned members from leaving, for fear they will be killed when the end comes.

“He’s been saying just give me two more years, we’re right at the end,” said former member Miriam Martin who left in 2004.

“Why would you give up now? That’s how he controls people, is through fear,” Martin said.

Other former members say they are required to buy doomsday food and supplies from a company that Hawkins owns personally, Life Nutrition Products.

“Everything that he preaches has to do with people buying something,” said former House of Yahweh elder David Als of New York City.

Like many of the his followers, Als actually legally changed his last name to Hawkins because he became convinced that only those named Hawkins would be saved.

“I’m a Black man from New York city. We’re supposed to be slick and wise to the street and he had me hook, line and sinker,” Als told 20/20.

“No one else has the right to the tree of life, except those that keep the laws of Yahweh,” Hawkins has said in his sermons, which are broadcast around the world.

Hawkins says as a prophet he knows that nuclear outbreak will come ’round the great river Euphrates.

In addition to dealing with the beginning of the end, Hawkins is also dealing with some serious legal problems.

The Callahan County district attorney has filed felony bigamy charges against Hawkins, alleging he has multiple wives.

He has pleaded not guilty to the charges and says he is being targeted because authorities do not like his brand of religion.

76. Associated Press - February 3, 2009

72/73. Postminimalist:

Thanks for that one. They come a dime a dozen.

‘Hamlet: I am but mad north-north-west: [but] when the wind is southerly I know a hawk[ins] from a handsaw.’
Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
Act II. Scene II. Line 272.
William Shakespeare

Ergo: There something rotten in. . .

77. preying mantra - February 3, 2009

post 59

“For me the principle goal and value of this blog is to help current members see that there is life (and hope) after the Fellowship and that there are many people out here who ‘know we do not know,’ and are making the effort to not express negativity and to struggle with imagination – people who deeply understand their (our!) predicament and will help if we can. ”

So, let me get this right –
What is written on the blog is supposed to inspire us still in the school to leave by showing us that you guys are getting somewhere?

There are many out there who ‘do not know’ and it is like the blind leading the blind reading the petty stuff you fill your lives with.
Just stick to repeating the same stuff about how terrible the school is and don’t set yourselves us as examples of moving on.
And, why don’t some of you use your sex energy in the way biological life intended, it might make a lot of your psuedo-psyco-babble unnecessary.

78. fofblogmoderator - February 3, 2009

32, 67 and 77 are newly moderated

79. Wildz - February 3, 2009

77

We are showing that we are getting away from the likes of Robert Burton.

80. elena - February 3, 2009

Dragon 32, I did try, but it wasn’t worth it!

As the ligtht that kisses the morning
born in a night without stars
I come to your always without batting my wings
to offer you to fly with them

No more do I offer you
because the impossible
died in silence
when I know how to look at you
and there is nothing to compare you with
even if the nothingness makes itself available.

Argentinian Folk Song for you with love!

*********************

Dear 77 Mantra

Thank you for your post.
Welcome
It’s always good to see students around here
We’ve been flirting with you for long
and it is always good to see you get here.

Send my love to Girard and everyone else,
what I have insulted is not you but what you’re not
I love you all!

As the pain withdraws,
it is very easy to love you!
Who could hate such pitiful victims?

“The Times, they are a changing…”
we will come together again,
we’ve never separated.

81. normal human being - February 3, 2009

For Preying Mantra .

Hello everybody!

I am happy I am out, this is it. I am just happy that I am OUT OF IT. As simple, as it is.
Thank you WhaleRider.Today I reread Your post and I was able for the first time to feel it with all my heart…Something happened.. I hope that one day You, Preying Mantra will be able to understand it too. Good luck with your Jorney, it is not easy, but it is possible…

So, I post it again without your WhaleRider permission, but hopefully you will forgive me..

WhaleRider Says:

May 5, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Reading this blog has been a very visceral and emotional experience for me, which I am grateful to transform into presence, for I live the work every day of my existence. When reading it I perspire heavily. In the past week since I was informed of it and dived in, I have had many instances of energy shooting down my sides, and I am moved to tears several times a day when I reflect upon what I experienced in the FOF. Yet the sheer energy contained in this blog, both raw and refined is quite impressive as I am sure the venerable sheik and knight will agree, and I cannot stop reading it. I find myself hoping of recognize my story, only to realize that it is not there because I have not told it.

I want to be clear that I do not wish to be part of any lawsuit against RB or the FOF. I am not motivated by any hope of financial gain, nor am I willing to join a crusade to end the FOF. It will undoubtedly collapse under its own excesses, or not, I could care less. Each person, in or out, must choose for themselves, which I believe is one of the reasons this blog is so valuable. I have built a comfortable, happy life and successful business post-FOF for myself and my family which I wish to protect. I ask anyone whom may recognize my identity to please respect my privacy and keep my name anonymous. Although current FOF members may wish to argue that in divulging my story I have violated the personal privacy of RB, that his public life is distinctly separate from his private life. My response is this: when a teacher brings his student into his private life and uses “work” language in his seduction, that distinction is gone. For each of us, no matter how long we have contact with the FOF; it is and will be a deeply moving and personal experience, not because of the man, but of the possibilites of growth within each of us.

To Golb:

Now that your tail is out of your mouth, you glibly strike at this blog-my air, at the children, and at me? You have no idea who I am and what I have been through, Golb, whatever the heck that name is supposed to mean. I am WhaleRider. I have ridden the BIG FISH into the deepest, darkest, coldest depths until my lungs have screamed for air, my soul choking in my throat, and I have survived. I let myself be swallowed whole, have kept myself intact, had my semen drained nightly by a sex maniac who gave the most wondrous, intentional, conscious blowjobs, had my essence gouged open as I lay resting on the Goethe Academy floor as a human shield for the precious artwork, the lights left on the LeBrun all night to keep my exhausted body in first-state deprivation, my king of clubs bound and gagged, unable to protect me from this terrible angel who would rouse me and lead me secretly, stealthily into the dark of his gilded bed-chamber to service his need for the good of us all, in this school of “shut up and be present”, this silk-lined labyrinth of luxury complete with the matching salt and pepper shakers, where I puke out his semen in the imported porcelain toilet along with the fine wine and pepper steak from the teaching dinner earlier that night and wipe my face on the Egyptian cotton towel just before I’d retire until dawn cracks open another day and he slumbers peacefully until lunch dreaming of sugar plums because they remind him of testicles…while the rest of us toiled in the searing hot sun the next day still weary from our lunatic efforts the day and night before…not once was I told that I was loved in this school of love, but he loved when I returned the favor-only to have to excrete myself one year later, quietly leaving in a gentleman-like fashion, not making a splash, barely a ripple, so as not to disturb anyone else who might be sleeping…to remain alive, and carry out my prophesized soul death sentence as a life-person-oh yeah, that’s right, there was no gun to my head…but thankfully his predictions don’t come true either, do they?

And Howard, Girard, Golden Fleecer, the brave-new-man and miscellaneous moon angels…with your eloquent tongues and trite, text-book explanations for our suffering…I have seen 50 like you dis-“membered” by the insatiable Minotaur at the center of this perpetual labyrinth you call haven, home, Isis… do you have the balls to hear the truth?…the graphic truth?… the painful truth? The truth I paid for with my own hydrogen 12? Do know why he calls himself a goddess? You think an angel told him. Did you know the prostrate gland is the male G-spot? He would orgasm from anal sex without any penal stimulus, and think he had awakened his female side, just as a woman does during anal sex without ever touching the clitoris… He taught me that, he’s such an elevated and exalted teacher! Look it up on the internet, or better yet, try it for yourself sometime…

And can you even FATHOM the nauseating, soul imploding disgust I felt the night he did “rimming” on me, without my consent, and then brought his fecal coated lips to mine and kissed me? Try separating from that. The Darvons he used to hand out were not enough to quench the pain, for this pain is exquisite and it leaves no visible marks! Think of me the next time he kisses your forehead…once those lips had been planted firmly on my asshole and probably countless others from all corners of the planet. And that’s the ultimate of all ironies; he kisses your third eye with those lips, coating the seat of your very soul with fecal matter from the seat of his inner circle. Please, by all means, stay in the Fellowship as long as you like! Stand by him! Support him! Bring him fresh new, exotic meat, he’s HUNGRY! Or if you like, have a look down the escape hatch he had installed in his closet just in case C-influence happened to be on vacation and he read the tea leaves wrong. Then you will know the darkness that resides under that silk suit. You might want to have your own plan B just in case the Earl has run out of man number five party hats that you have been so patiently waiting for him to bestow upon you…

WhaleRider

82. Yesri Baba - February 3, 2009

74 Postminimalist

I have tears running down my cheeks like rain.

I ain’t laughed so hard since the pigs et my sister.

Don’t know which would be worse- Nuclear war or Abilene, Tx.

Buffalo Bill changed the law to Three is better than two and Two is better than one in the wives department.

Buffalo Bob changed it to Suck it if you’ve got it in the dick department.
But then, that is in a secret super-duper esoteric real 4th Way School.
It’s differnt.

83. Ellen - February 3, 2009

77 Preying Mantra

“There are many out there who ‘do not know’ and it is like the blind leading the blind reading the petty stuff you fill your lives with.
Just stick to repeating the same stuff about how terrible the school is and don’t set yourselves us as examples of moving on.”

There are a lot of silent readers and posters here who have moved on in various profound ways. Don’t take a few active voices to represent the moon food you imagine us to be. What you don’t understand is that Robert Burton is also a very blind man leading the blind, too. So then sorry, bud, the playing field is more than equalized. Because you are the real sleeper, ZZZZZing away in your Fellowship complacency, imagining yourself to be on a higher level. Inform yourself, man! Find out what the real characteristics of enlightenment are. Then take a read of normal human being’s repost of WhaleRider’s story, post #81.

84. Yesri Baba - February 3, 2009

“And, why don’t some of you use your sex energy in the way biological life intended, it might make a lot of your psuedo-psyco-babble unnecessary.”

Yeah, why don’t you all get your cock sucked by an angel the way nature intended? It will make you so smart you will waste your whole life in a cult.

85. Yesri Baba - February 3, 2009

32 dragon

Ah yes, great song.

86. Ellen - February 3, 2009

77 Preying Mantra,

Now, you are positively 4th street.

Tomorrow, next year, or in a decade you will be like a rolling stone.

Good luck.

87. Postminimalist - February 3, 2009

Re: “psuedo-psyco-babble”

“wordless breaths”
“intoning the sequence”
and so on.

88. elena - February 3, 2009

Text 15 The Rape of the Mind Chapter 4. Joost A.M. Merlow
The Need for Companionship

Not enough attention has been given to the psychlogy of loneliness, especially to the implications of enforced isolation of prisoners. When the sensory stimuli of everyday life are removed, man’s entire personality may change. Social intercourse, our continual contact with our colleagues, our work, the newspapers, voices, traffic, our loved ones and even those we don’t like — all are daily nourishment for our senses and minds. We select what we find interesting, reject what we do not want to absorb. Every day, every citizen lives in many small worlds of exchange of gratifications, little hatreds, pleasant experiences, irritations, delights. And he needs these stimuli to keep him on the alert. Hour by hour, reality, in cooperation with our memory, integrates the millions of facts in our lives by repeating them over and over.

As soon as man is alone, closed off from the world and from the news of what is going on, his mental activity is replaced by quite different processes. Long forgotten anxieties come to the surface, long-repressed memories knock on his mind from inside. His fantasy life begins to develop and assume gigantic proportions. He cannot evaluate or check his fantasies against the events of his ordinary days, and very soon they may take possession of them.

_______All the parallels I am doing in relation to this text apply 90% to life in Renaissance and Fellowship members who ended up living in Renaissance for long periods of time. I am talking about the “excellent student” who was willing to give up his life to embrace Robert’s teaching. Members who never went to Renaissance and never committed fully to its life were, fortunately for them, too disperse to undergo the process that the former took. Since the former are the leaders or the inner circle of the Fellowship, they are responsible for it. They are the ones who need to keep it going for they live on it, not only economically but psychologically.

The text presented today needs a great deal of insight to understand. The situation in concentration camps might seem too extreme to compare with the Dismayland of the Fellowship fantasy but the isolation from the world was the same, the conditioned lifestyle, the monotonous repetition extended over long periods of time had the same effect on its most committed members as in prison camps. If you read the whole chapter you will get a better analogy but I’m trying to reduce space and pinpoint the most obvious.

Here is this story:
Another example of breakdown is seen in the story of one young resistance fighter who, after the Nazis had threatened to torture his father, who was impriosned with him, finally broke into childish tears and promised to tell them everything they wanted to know. After that he was taken back to his cell in order to be softened up after the following day. This was the routine of his interrogator. The inquisitors understood only too well the effectiveness of patient pursuit at repeated moments while intruding into a man’s guilt feelings. Although both prisoners were liberated that night as a consequence of the Allied sweep through Belgium and the southwest part of Holland, the boy remained in his depression for a long time, tortured by his knowledge that he had nearly betrayed his best friends in the underground in order to save his father — in spite of knowing, at the same time, that the promises of the enemy would not have protected his father.

The Law of Survival Versus the Law of Loyalty

The prisoners of war in Korea who gradually gave in to the systematic mental pressure of the enemy and collaborated in the production of materials that could be used for Communist propaganda — albeit tentatively and for only as long as they were in the orbit of the enemy — followed a peculiar psychological law of passive inner defense and inner deceit that when one cannot fight and defeat the enemy, one must join him. Later, a few of them were so taken in by totalitarian propaganda that they elected to remain in China and the totalitarian orbit. Some did it to escape punishment for having betrayed their comrades.

Man cannot become a turncoat without justifying his actions to himself. When Holland surrendered to the German army in 1940, I saw this general mechanism of mental surrender operating in several people who had been staunch anti-Nazis. “Maybe there is something good in Nazism,” they told themselves as they saw the tremendous show of German strength. Those who were the victims of their own initial mental surrender and need to justify things, who could not stop and say to themselves “Hold on here; think this out,” became the traitors and collaborators. They were completely taken in by the enemy’s show of strength. The same process of self-justification and justifying the enemy started in the P.O.W. camps. Experiences from the concentration camps give us some indication of how far this passive submission to the enemy can go. Because of the deep-seated human need for affection, many prisoners lived only for one thing: a friendly word from their guards. Each time it came, it fortified the delusion of grace and acceptance. Once these prisoners, mostly those who had been in the camps a long time, were accepted by the guards, they easily became the trusted tools of the Nazis. They started to behave like their cruel jailers and became torturers of their fellow campers. These collaborating prisoners, called “Kapos,” were even more cruel and vengeful than the official overseers. Because of misunderstood inner needs, the brainwasher and sadistic camp leader are direly in need of collaborators. They serve not only for the propaganda machine but also to exonerate their jailers from guilt.

When a man has to choose either hunger, death marches, and torture or a temporary yielding to the illusions of the enemy, his self-preservation mechanisms act in many ways like reflexes. They help him to find a thousand justifications and exculpations for giving in to the psychological pressure.

Questions:

When you joined the Fellowship did you feel disappointed with your family and friends? Disappointed in that you were not particularly valued and you also did not value their values much?

In the process of separating from “life” do you think you, or us, Fellowship members, in gradually having to accept the theory of “biological families” and separating from our families and “the world” emotionally, had to justify this “treason” to ourselves embracing more strongly the “noble aims” of “awakening” in the Fellowship?

I personally realize now that I never perceived my “abandonement” of my family as if I had “guilt” in relation to it but the conflict between my love for them and the fact that I was indeed abandoning them never stopped nagging at me. I would justify it with thoughts such as: they don’t want to work on themselves and I do. I have committed to this path and they are not and of course on top of that the powerfully accepted doctrine that “life people are sleep” “we are luckier than them” “Even Jesus left his family” all helped to reinforce the conviction.

When we look at these things what is important is not only our family or the world as real physical people out there but what they represent within one’s self. In betraying them the problem is not only one’s separation from them but one’s schizoid process within one’s own self to accept the escision. To be able to disregard the main constituents of one’s life one has to undergo a severe process of self-mutilation. Essence or what one was originally moulded, has to be “muzzled”.

In concentration camps and the like, prisoners are isolated and severed from their families, friends and the world at large by FORCE while in Cults, members undergo this process voluntarily gradually immersed in the life of the cult.

What the System offers is that a student undergo a process of not identifying with himself (his life: family, friends, humanity) but what the Fellowship practices is external physical separation taking from the members the possibility of actually practicing the System and reducing them to fully dependent subjects of the Cult.

When one studies these things deeply, what is astoundingly beautiful and because of it, extremely dangerous for the victim, is that the only thing that survives after the structure of an individual is broken, is the need of the prisoners or the cult members to love and be loved. In prison camps as much as in Cults what we end up seeing, is that the victim will yield because he/she needs human contact. The Stockholm Syndrome is the most significant aspect of this whole phenomenon: the pathological emotional dependency on the abuser, the Guru and the Cult.

In cults, the voluntary betrayal of family, friends and humanity induces the member into guilt and the need to justify the betrayal by embracing the Cult with equally forceful commitment. In theory the member has given everything up for the ideals of the cult but in practice the ability to make human contact with others has become impossible allowing for the development of innumerable forms of inhuman behaviour. Contact with others, human solidarity in the simplest form, becomes impossible within the boundaries of the cult, which projects itself in the private lives of each member. The member cannot betray his family, friends and humanity without betraying himself so he/she chastises herself and justifies his/her guilt by working with blind commitment for the ideal that justifies the betrayal. He or she must always remain convinced of the validity of his betrayal, which he does not perceive in those terms but interprets as “sacrifice”. He has “sacrificed” himself (family, friends, humanity) for the divine Guru, the Gods, Awakening and every other member must do the same, exactly the same, to be accepted in the “INCOMMUNICATION” for there is no flow of community or communication amongst these members: only repetition of the doctrine.
The “hasnamuss” or the fixed good student role develops rampantly at the cost of an already much damaged essence.

This is the state of the human being of today. The prospective cult members are growing around the world. The inner and outer fascism of these people is extremely dangerous for everybody. If we are unable to heal and help heal people before they join cults in our societies, it will be much more difficult to try to heal them once they’ve undergone such a process. Men like Girard, Linda, the Dambecks, the Taylors and a hundred others in the Fellowship have crystallized in a non-contact with themselves. They have overridden their own integrity so thoroughly that they will override and hurt no matter who, to protect Robert and the Fellowship. The Systematic rape of young men and the severe exploitation of young and old people, is the expression of their blind commitment to the life they betrayed and they cannot stop themselves from doing so because they do it under the name of “love”. In their own eyes, they are “heroes”, “martyrs”, not “victims”.

89. Postminimalist - February 3, 2009

Dictionary.com
Word of the Day for Tuesday, February 3, 2009

defalcate \di-FAL-keyt\, verb:

to steal or misuse money or property entrusted to one’s care

90. dragon - February 3, 2009

Tank you for your posts:

ton, kid shelleen, whalerider, elena (“sweet bird in the jungle” link and a “sabichi” folk song!)

Let us post and inform each other with a good sense of humour!

91. dragon - February 3, 2009

tank=thank

sabichi=sabishi

the sweet little hit…..!

92. Postminimalist - February 3, 2009

By the way, some of the so-called “psuedo-psyco-babble” is good for people for helping them to move on and to heal from the cult. So it’s no wonder we were programmed with an aversion for it in the FOF.

But much of it is helpful:

Seek balance. Oppose injustice if that is your calling, but find ways to fight it that are within your control. The recipe for unhappiness is trying to change things that are outside of your control. So focus on what you say and whether it has potential merit in helping others, and focus less on whether or not anyone will listen. Be aware of injustice, but focus on trying to be just yourself. Expose lies if you believe it’s needed, but focus on trying not to tell your own lies. Point out the insanity in others, but in the meantime be aware of your own insanity while trying to live a sane life. Be aware of past mistakes, but focus on the present and future.

All of the above is really common sense, and could easily be labeled as “psuedo-psyco-babble” if that’s the attitude we want to take. But then, how often do we really follow such wisdom when our heads are in the clouds talking about “esoteric schools.”

A healthy outlook on life and a trust in one’s own conscience = a type of awakening.

And by the way, about “psuedo-psyco-babble”:

“wordless breaths”
“intoning the sequence”
and so on.

93. elena - February 3, 2009

Dear 77 Mantra,

We will come together again because we love each other.
These 64 pages of internet with an average of 21thousand posts are a desperate call out to each one of you inside telling you that we love you.
We have lived together for too long for every cell in my body not to recognize and long for you.
Each one of you lives within me. I see all of you, I feel your skin who I could never touch in those fake embraces in which we had to leave our selves out. Your skin, your pain, your sad comfort are an indivisible part of my self. Your tremendous efforts to not be your selves but the role. We lived in the Fellowship like my husband and I in bed, who could never look at me to love me. I am sorry I did not look at you with the full strength of my vision but I did, I could feel you and my indefinite horror was the expression of what I saw. You never saw my happiness because there was no happiness in the Fellowship. Never forget me so that you know what I was reflecting. Never forget my disapproval of our misery.

The frustration of not having accomplished what we joined the Fellowship for: love, consciousness, culture, civilization, camaraderie, life, continues to cry out loud to you inviting you to be with us and if not with us, with your self and who ever else you chose but not the mad loneliness of the Fellowship.

Please forgive us and forgive your self. You do not need to betray the Fellowship to recover your self, your family, your friends or mankind. Embrace the Fellowship as you would embrace the worm within you: embrace it and neutralize it: a conscious being is non other than a man that embraces his own worm in such a way that it cannot come out. Free Mankind needs to embrace cults and neutralize them. Evil is a pebble in a man’s shoe that must eventually be allowed to enter his skin so that it does not bother any body else. To know the pebble inside of one’s self is the only way of checking it constantly.

Please don’t stop writing even your little insults. We want to hear you. We long to be with you or at least I do.

94. elena - February 3, 2009

But if you come back here to preach like Daily Cardiac, I will scream at you until we are all deaf.

95. elena - February 3, 2009

My lovely Dragon,

humor is an aspect of health and I am still far from it. Don’t ask pears from an apple tree!

96. Postminimalist - February 3, 2009

Ok, I’ll repeat the pseudo psychologically buzzwords for all to enjoy, or roll their eyes with, whatever they choose:

Seek balance. Oppose injustice if that is your calling, but find ways to fight it that are within your control. The recipe for unhappiness is trying to change things that are outside of your control. So focus on what you say and whether it has potential merit in helping others, and focus less on whether or not anyone will listen. Be aware of injustice, but focus on trying to be just yourself. Expose lies if you believe it’s needed, but focus on trying not to tell your own lies. Point out the insanity in others, but in the meantime be aware of your own insanity while trying to live a sane life. Be aware of past mistakes, but focus on the present and future.

And take a deep breath. Indignation is good. Letting go of the indignation is good too. Send what you think you need out to the universe, and the universe will send it back to you. Really, it does. And you’re doing that already. Good things are happening.

97. Panorea - February 3, 2009

Preying Mantra,

leaving the cult Fellowship of Friends does not mean you join the blog or any other group. It means you stop being “in imagination” about your life, stop paying monies to a corrupted organization and getting on your feet. In “life” they call it “growing up.”

98. nigel harris price - February 3, 2009

96 panorea

In the cult called FOF, I was like a little boy, who could not make money enough or get into a stable relationship. Now I am taken for what I am – a mature adult (with a thriving business, I might add!) and have many nice lady friends (though no special one – yet!). But I still manage to laugh at myself, sometimes…..Nigel.

99. elena - February 3, 2009

Dragon, but you’re right, where is FOFion? You are officially required!

When my humor comes out it is still black! I need it green like yours!

100. nigel harris price - February 3, 2009

Dear All

I thought you might like this one from Ruskin ‘Frondes Agrestes’…..

“The temper by which right taste is formed is characteristically patient. It dwells upon what is submitted to it. It does not trample upon it,- lest it be pearls, even though it look like husks. It is good ground, penetrable, retentive; it does not send up thorns of unkind thoughts, to choke the weak seed; it is hungry and thirst too, and drinks all the dew that falls on it. It is an honest and good heart, that shows no too ready springing before the sun be up, but fails not afterwards; it is distrustful of itself, so as to be ready to believe and to try all things; and yet so trustful of itself, that it will neither quit what it has tried, nor take anything without trying. And the pleasure it has in things that it finds true and good, is so great, that it cannot possibly be led aside by any tricks of fashion, or diseases of vanity; it cannot be cramped in its conclusions by partialities and hypocrisies; its visions and delights are too penetrating,-too living,- for any whitewashed object or shallow fountain long to endure or supply. It clasps all that it loves so hard that it crushes it if it be hollow.” …..Nigel.

101. The FOFion - February 3, 2009

Life People Arrested for Funneling Funds to FOF

SOMEWHERE OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE, Calif. (ARK) — A special Cult Busting Unit of the FBI has uncovered a ring of Life People secretly funneling Monopoly cash into the Fellowship of Friends.

CBU spokesperson Grub Grantham says the crime ring may have been operating out of two trailer homes on Regent Way, one of the major thoroughfares near the FOF compound.

“We’ve never seen anything like it,” Grantham said. “We discovered a mountain of 1s, 5s, and 20s. They kept the denominations small so as not to raise any suspicion.”

There’s no indication how life people got involved with the scheme, Grantham said, as the FOF generally accepts money only from “current students” and generally turns away any donations from people who lack valuation.

Sources believe the FOF uses the money for a bizaree form of the game called “strip Monopoly.”

But Grantham denied the rumors: “That’s ridiculous,” he said. “Nothing like that would ever happen in the FOF.”

102. whalerider - February 3, 2009

preying mantra:
Speaking for myself, I’d say that divorce has been surprisingly the best way to give my sex life a jump start. I’ve had more sex in the last six months than the last five years of my marriage, just to give you a reality check in my case.

Maybe you are missing the example of “moving on” that we “guys” are displaying here.

We ex-followers have now joined the ranks of “concerned citizens” of the human community and some of us are justifiably pissed….morally outraged, in fact.

The example of “moving on” that your cult leader has for you is of disappearing quietly into the night…out of sight, out of mind, so he can continue operating his rape factory under the community’s radar.

Sorry to disappoint you.

elena:
I’ll make the effort to look past the mixed signals you are giving me about forgiveness, and say that I am categorically on your side.

I have forgiven myself, which is what empowers me to speak so candidly about my experiences in the Fellowship of Friends AKA Pathway to Presence. I feel a lot less shame than I did three years ago. I have taken full responsibility for my share of what happened to me in the FOF, it’s high time for Burton and his enablers to take responsibility for theirs.

BTW, “The Rape of the Mind” was published in 1956, which is why WWII is used as examples and was back when the barbaric practice of electro-convulsive shock therapy was routinely performed on people suffering from mental illness (talk about rape of the mind!) Although much of what Merlow says about human nature still holds true, I’ll point out that many of the medications that Nigel takes weren’t even developed by then. Back in 1956, Nigel would more than likely have been institutionalized for life and, if his psychosis persisted he may also have been given a lobotomy. I’d say he is a lucky man to still have his freedom.

I stand by what I say: you are a great soul struggling for freedom, too. That is not meant to just feed your ego.

You have all the time you need to heal, AND I will say you are much further along in the healing process than I was two years after I left.

If you are having too great a difficulty taking criticism, let’s work on taking a compliment.

103. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 3, 2009

#100: Thanks for the hearty laugh this morning. Namaste

104. fofblogmoderator - February 3, 2009

86 is newly moderated

105. elena - February 3, 2009

Thanks Whalerider, that feels healthier.

Your last sentence though you can put it back up in your face. If you think I haven’t taken enough criticism here you’ve been reading a different blog. It’s not criticism what I am not willing to take, it’s abuse and you were extremely abusive.

If you want to take that or not it’s good enough for me. I’m almost ready for the next round if you want to take advantage of that almost.

106. Walter J. Tanner - February 3, 2009

Yo all,

Anybody hear This American Life this weekend? Remember Warren Jeffs, the splinter-Mormon head who ran his podunk town like the Taliban and got thrown in jail? They did a real interesting story about the guy who was appointed by the State of Utah to go in and manage the assets of his religious group…these poor people basically lived in a police state, but listening to the “former and current members” was just a little eerie…(and for those who dream something like this could happen to Burton, it demonstrates the level of criminality necessary for something like this state take-over…)

Sorry I don’t know where in the one-hour program the piece on Jeffs is…I just heard it on the radio Sunday…

http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=373

walter.tanner@gmail.com

107. elena - February 3, 2009

But if you’re ready to move on to something else, take this because it’s worth repeating.

108. nigel harris price - February 3, 2009

102 whalerider

I was talking with my consultant today and the new subject of ‘Behavioural Activation’ came up. It seems that moving centred ‘I’s can be listened to, to overcome the instinctive inertia that depression brings. The theory is that, by going ahead with an active regime to overcome the ‘I’s that wish to stay in bed etc., it is possible to activate the positive ‘chemicals’ by going against inertia. And, by the way, I was not born until 1956…..Nigel.

109. elena - February 3, 2009

Whalerider,
In fact, I think I’m ready so why delay it?

In relation to Nigel, I think we’ve said plenty so has he. He is mature enough to make his own decisions with what we present. It is obvious that we are both doing what we think can help.

Whalerider:
I stand by what I say: you are a great soul struggling for freedom, too. That is not meant to just feed your ego.

I would appreciate it if instead of calling me a great soul struggling for freedom you would address the things you value that make you think I’ve written something worth your listening to. Vanity lives in that arena of mutual compliments without actually looking at what is worth the compliment.

Whalerider: You have all the time you need to heal, AND I will say you are much further along in the healing process than I was two years after I left.

I have had no time to heal, I’ve been like a wounded animal fighting back and you have had no generosity in relation to that. I accept it now and am no longer dependent on your or anybody else’s generosity to keep fighting back and I am healing in the meantime because that is the nature of being where I belong. It reconstructs a lot of what was damaged.

Whalerider: If you are having too great a difficulty taking criticism, let’s work on taking a compliment.

I suggest we work on playing with the ball (addressing the subject) without putting the ball in each other’s pants because I am as violent as I have been abused and would appreciate your help in not getting there. Sweet words don’t interest me when they are not sincere and you tend to keep a little dagger for the end or the beginning or the middle.

Let me reinstate my respect for you as a fellow traveller in a very difficult road. We are no saints here, let’s try to keep an eye on the devil within each one of us so that we don’t totally burn. If a time comes for flowers, let’s start by planting them.

110. James B. - February 3, 2009

I understand 77 Preying Mantra; I was a true believer, too.

I poured my heart into the Fellowship of Friends. I happily worked at Renaissance every weekend, opened and directed centers and later was ‘on salary’ for 15+ years. I had almost daily interaction with Robert Burton. I knew him as a gifted, charismatic, mysterious man. I gave him the benefit of every doubt.

Because of my visible role around RB, young men sometimes came to me with questions about what was right action in response to his unwanted advances; I glibly advised ‘just don’t do it if you don’t want to.’

Ultimately I was forced to see that in private Robert preyed on the vulnerable and that HE COULD NOT STOP, even as it threatened the Fellowship. I was also forced to see that although I had no direct part in his ‘private’ life, by continuing to represent him I was assuring those vulnerable ones that his behavior was okay.

But you know and I know that a sexual predator isn’t ‘okay.’

PM asked if ‘What is written on the blog is supposed to inspire us still in the school to leave…?’

I am not writing to inspire anyone but to say to Brigid, to Hanns, to Perry and to all those who are sick at heart at what our dream has become – I’ll help you any way I can.

111. elena - February 3, 2009

P.S. To those who have at times been generous, you included at the beginning, I thank you. Love does bring completely different things out of each other as did Nigel’s posts yesterday.

112. elena - February 3, 2009

Found this somewhere in the Internet yesterday.

New Beginnings

On January 26th, 2009 there is a New Moon in Aquarius at 6 degrees. The solar eclipse adds dimension and heightens the new moon energy. It may feel as if things are happening at the speed of light. Since it is a new moon, this signifies potentials for new beginnings in the area of life where it is happening (check to see where 6 degrees Aquarius lands in the natal chart). The solar light symbolically energizes the themes of the sign of Aquarius. Few of these themes are; liberation, detachment, futuristic, progressive, inventive, friendship, liked minded groups/organizations, humanitarism, and innovation. Solar eclipse phase tends to last up to twelve months from the original point, and this New Moon/Solar Eclipse re-energizes similar degree where Mercury in Aquarius went retrograde. So some themes may sound or look familiar for some of you.

113. fofblogmoderator - February 3, 2009

110 is newly moderated

114. nigel harris price - February 3, 2009

109 elena

Thank you for that post. Again, you are being brave. I now realize you poured a great deal into the FOF and, for the most part, got shit in return. There are many, I think, who feel the same way, although not having such a ‘high profile’ role and I hope we can extend a healing hand to you in continuance of the part you play here on the blog…..Nigel.

115. elena - February 4, 2009

My dear Nigel,

I had no high profile role, don’t worry about that. I was another nothing like everybody else and they used our marriage to bring Girard down another level. He’s probably gone back up with the divorce while he manages to stabilize the ship. They just tolerate him while he induces the new “next to be conscious beings” into the perfect role. Do you know they actually work at that? He meets with them to teach them the little secrets of self renunciation? Of course, they call it self remembering through the sequence.

A whole new generation of young people is being put in place for the same play that we went through. A whole new generation of young people is being put in place for the same play we went through. A whole new generation of young people is being put in place for the same play we went through.

A whole new generation is already in place for the same play we went through.
A whole new generation is already in place for the same play we went through.

PLEASE HELP STOP IT.

116. Polo - February 4, 2009

FOF seems like flypaper for whack jobs.

117. Opus 111 - February 4, 2009

#110 James B.

Thank you for the reminder that yes, indeed, we all had a dream when we joined FOF. Although the dream may have been different for each of us, the Fellowship seemed to be the perfect set-up to try and realize it for most of us. And set-up, we were!

One at a time, we can rescue those willing to leave this ship to nowhere, stuck in the doldrums.

118. nigel harris price - February 4, 2009

115 elena

You are right! The Self cannot be taught about. Real ‘I’ or ‘The Master’ in a human being is Essence grown up. (this is a direct quote from Gurdjieff) What these idiots are being taught by the ‘major idiot’ is that all the FOF acts to hold together a group entity lead to the Higher Self (as opposed to the Lower Self – and we have had enough talking about this on the blog) and the ability to ‘lord it’ over the poor minions who do not have adequate power, dominance or vanity features to fill those roles. I feel that just as dangerous as these are the ‘money mongers’, who are given special priveleges at meeting and dinners because of the special support they give. Let’s face it – the FOF is going down the pan and putting a ‘brave face’ on it…..Nigel.

119. nigel harris price - February 4, 2009

110 James B.

When I joined the FOF, I too was after the dream of Higher States, but did not realize there was so much politicking involved in this so-called ‘school’. You probably remember my failings to live up to the FOF standards and I could not think why the situation was the way it was. Because of the ‘remote’ nature of my role from the heart of the school, I did not experience nor hear too much about REB’s dealings with vulnerable young male students. I am so glad you have joined this site and that you can offer ‘a healing and moving hand’ for all those who need it…..Nigel.

120. WonderingWhosWatching - February 4, 2009

At least the name ‘preying mantra’ has some truth in it about the Fellowship of Friends, A.K.A. Pathway to Presence: Their mantra is one of continuously trying to prey upon the members, and prospective members, in each and every moment – how to be in advantageous position in every physical, mental, emotional and spiritual way you can imagine. There is no realm of people’s affairs that FoF will not try to take advantage of. Decades of up close and person experience by this writer testifies to it. Will it ever change? Certainly not possible from the inside. (This is besides the issue of the rape factory that is frequently the subject here.)

‘118. nigel harris price – February 4, 2009

110 James B.

When I joined the FOF, I too was after the dream of Higher States, but did not realize there was so much politicking involved in this so-called ’school’. You probably remember my failings to live up to the FOF standards and I could not think why the situation was the way it was. Because of the ‘remote’ nature of my role from the heart of the school, I did not experience nor hear too much about REB’s dealings with vulnerable young male students. I am so glad you have joined this site and that you can offer ‘a healing and moving hand’ for all those who need it…..Nigel.’

Regrettably, P_t_r B_sh_p (then the president of FoF) said, when he was struggling with his terminal illness, lung cancer, and death was near, something like: He was sorry he wasted so much time on the ‘politicking,’ in the school; time that he could have spent on, more profitably, remembering himself.

Truth be told, I am sorry to say, FoF is more about ‘preying mantra’ than ‘praying mantra.’ Member number 2, the first student to the teacher, had said as much some 35 years ago and it has not changed much since then. Nearly the whole body politic follows the leader. Not even the death of the teacher may stop it for it has become institutionalized.

121. Panorea - February 4, 2009

Jame B. Thank you so much for this!

110. James B. – February 3, 2009

I understand 77 Preying Mantra; I was a true believer, too.

I poured my heart into the Fellowship of Friends. I happily worked at Renaissance every weekend, opened and directed centers and later was ‘on salary’ for 15+ years. I had almost daily interaction with Robert Burton. I knew him as a gifted, charismatic, mysterious man. I gave him the benefit of every doubt.

Because of my visible role around RB, young men sometimes came to me with questions about what was right action in response to his unwanted advances; I glibly advised ‘just don’t do it if you don’t want to.’

Ultimately I was forced to see that in private Robert preyed on the vulnerable and that HE COULD NOT STOP, even as it threatened the Fellowship. I was also forced to see that although I had no direct part in his ‘private’ life, by continuing to represent him I was assuring those vulnerable ones that his behavior was okay.

But you know and I know that a sexual predator isn’t ‘okay.’

PM asked if ‘What is written on the blog is supposed to inspire us still in the school to leave…?’

I am not writing to inspire anyone but to say to Brigid, to Hanns, to Perry and to all those who are sick at heart at what our dream has become – I’ll help you any way I can.

122. fofblogmoderator - February 4, 2009

116 is newly moderated

123. Craig Dockter - February 4, 2009

Is the new employee, (woman-perhaps Russian),
at the O.H. Grocery Store a Fellowship member?

If so…is that a first one of the members has worked
at the store?

What will the neighbors say? There goes the
neighborhood!!

124. Yesri Baba - February 4, 2009

116 Polo

HAHAHAHAHA!!

Sho nuff.

125. Ill Never Tell - February 4, 2009

123. Craig Dockter

‘is that a first one of the members has worked at the store?’

Answer: No, not the first. There have been, or is, other FoF working there. Neighborhood has already beautified itself into a sexual predator play ground and hot spot vector for STD’s. Had to force out the drug cartel that preceded this latest regime. Don’t meth with either.

126. lauralupa - February 4, 2009

Small Moments, Many Times (Hi folks!)

“I co-led a retreat recently with Rabbi David Cooper, who is both a beloved old friend and colleague, as well as a mentor at times. I have been hearing and digesting David’s ideas about “life, the universe and everything” for over 20 years, paying very close attention to his gradual unfolding on the spiritual path. Certainly he is one of the few people I know who has gone to even greater extremes than I have in his search for freedom, truth and understanding of this human dilemma.
I have spent over 30 years exploring and diving into nearly every approach to “waking up” that came down the pike, often going to what some would consider great lengths in my quest. But while I was busy traipsing around the globe collecting exotic spiritual experiences, David was mostly being a disciplined meditator, digging one deep well, as it is said, in contrast to my numerous shallow holes. He would often spend between three and six months of each year on silent retreat, sitting on a cushion, and maintaining an unbelievably austere schedule of arising at two or three in the morning and essentially meditating all day until ten at night, then sleeping for perhaps four hours and beginning again. He would maintain this schedule for up to 100 days at a time.
Beyond his commitment to silent sitting practice, David, like me, was also at times drawn to some extreme experiments on his journey: he did what the Tibetan Buddhists call a “dark retreat,” which, like it sounds, involves being in an absolutely dark room for extended periods of time; in his case, 23 days. Apparently, all notions of night and day disappear, the boundary between sleeping, waking and dreaming begins to blur, and one discovers the infinite capacity of the mind to create vast worlds that appear as real. David also did a “homeless retreat” on the streets of New York City, in which the participants were instructed to show up with just the clothes on their backs, no money, food or water, and they were set loose to survive in the city for five days, relying on their wits, grace, and the kindness of strangers.
So if anyone can speak about and exemplify the value of genuine, committed spiritual practice and meditation, it is Reb David. He has more than earned his teacher status, and being 14 years my senior, he has also been at it longer than I have, for about 50 years. At our recent retreat together, however, I heard him say something I’d never heard from him before, and it both startled me and shook me up. After delivering an evening talk one night, he concluded by stating, “And this is the best I can offer this lifetime. These are the highest teachings I’ve come to after 50 years of practice, and I no longer expect to discover anything radically new or different.”
I noticed my heart sank and I felt deflated. Despite the fact that all the Zen-ish people are always saying “This is it, there’s nothing to get, it’s all here now,” I never really thought they meant it! Did they really mean this is as good as it gets? Surely they must be referring to some other version of this that will come along some time later, once I really understand that “this is it, here and now.” But right now? Certainly this this can’t be it! How many of us are hoping to truly be here now someday in the future? When teachers proclaim, “This is it,” it always feels as if their version of “this” is somehow magically filled with luminosity, eternity and wonder, whereas our puny, everyday “this,” though equally pervaded by the Glory of God, generally appears to us as nothing special, certainly not awe-inspiring, and even boring sometimes.
I asked David to define his version of “This is it,” and he wrote back: “THIS (the entire unfolding universe, and everything that is happening in every moment) IS (the divine, extraordinary revelation of) IT (that which the world has sought to understand and attain for thousands of years)!!! And if THIS is truly and deeply grokked on the most essential level, there is nothing more to seek but to look into the mirror and recognize that whatever THIS BEING is seeing is nothing less than the God-ing process before ITS very eyes. (Wow!)”
We all have brief moments of experiencing our lives like that, of breaking through our fog and seeing our present reality (no matter what it is) in all of its hidden splendor. Such inspiring awakenings can occur when witnessing the birth of a child, coming upon an extraordinary vista in nature, experiencing a high after meditating for 20 days, or really anything at all that triggers a spontaneous glimpse of the Vast Silence that we inhabit. Yet we keep bouncing back into the daily humdrum view of life, like a rubber band that is stretched and snaps back to its original form; we always seem to come back to “just this,” and it’s often a huge disappointment.
That’s why I was dejected when I heard David say that what he has already offered as a teacher is as good as it gets. Because I know that he also gets bounced back. In fact, he has advised us to reframe our expectations about attaining some permanent state of enlightenment that never goes away, and to think more along the lines of “Small moments, many times.” But most of us persist in hoping for some big, final moment of epiphany from which we never return, saving us at last from this world of suffering and our relentless human minds that seem to be running, and often ruining, our lives.
I’ve been watching and waiting for David to get enlightened for two decades now, but here he was, announcing an endpoint of some sort, and yet he was still just my old familiar, all-too-human friend-certainly wise, kind, open and loving, but, according to some unexamined criteria of my own, not enlightened. It took the wind out of my sails. What are we seekers doing here, anyway? If David didn’t get it-the great and final It–after a gazillion hours on the meditation cushion, what hope is there for us more casual spiritual dilettantes?
I examined my criteria, and what I discovered was that there are, in fact, certain teachers out there who do “measure up” to my strict enlightenment standards, and that I seem to base it on a certain sense of authority that they convey in their tone of voice, in the clarity of their teachings, and in their absolute confidence in what they are saying and doing. Of course, I have a hunch that Jim Jones and Hitler probably also spoke with confidence and an air of authority (although lacking the “clarity of the teachings” bit.) But David always sounds to me more like a pundit than a guru, demonstrating an extraordinary intellectual grasp of the dharma, presenting it through the lens of his raw and honest human experience, displaying a great degree of wisdom, generosity and kindness, but still, ultimately, so damn ordinary! He remains a regular guy, with regular foibles, striving and schlepping along with the rest of us, in my mind settling for “small moments, many times” instead of spirituality’s Grand Prize, a permanent vacation from one’s self!
Ironically, of course, again and again, nearly all of the teachers who do carry the charisma that attracts me, and who speak with great power, force and authority, are usually the very people who eventually fall from their thrones in the ignominy of sexual or financial scandals and the abuse of power. I’m still a sucker for someone who acts like they “know.” Seekers are a dime a dozen; I want to be around someone who has found, and there is no shortage of such folks eager to take on that mantle, and then more often than not, charge megabucks to be in their presence.
Where does it leave us if it turns out that all of our spiritual emperors have no clothes? If it’s really just us here, scrambling to figure it all out and make it work? For every True Believer who will tell you that their Master is the “One” (and usually the Only One), I promise that you can also find dozens or thousands of disaffected devotees who will be only too happy to share their horror stories. And yet, just as we cling to the possibility of a Great and Final Awakening, we likewise still long for that Great One who Really Knows! We want to sit before a pure expression of the Divine in human form, a direct channel of the truth and a beneficent expression of absolute enlightenment and spiritual liberation. In other words, we want to meet the Buddha on the road, but we don’t want to kill him, we want to bow at his feet and have him deliver us our freedom wholesale, direct from the manufacturer with a lifetime guarantee.
It’s easy enough to find dead saints to believe in. I’m still under the impression that Ramana Maharshi, Neem Karoli Baba and Ramakrishna, not to mention Buddha and Jesus, were the real thing. It’s just so frustrating that living teachers always turn out to be flawed and merely human. We’re drawn to their charisma, and then are subtly or overtly asked to assign to them perfection and an infallibility that would leave even the Pope salivating. It is always an all-or-nothing proposition with such teachers; you can’t partially believe someone is a Divine Incarnation. You can’t filter out what you like or don’t like when someone is “speaking the Truth.” Devotees in scenes like that are never permitted to have a different point of view, for neither the teacher nor the group mind will permit it.
When such a Master is eventually caught with His pants down, the group usually divides in two: one half limps away, wounded, whimpering, disaffected and angry. The other half is somehow able to twist the truth into a version that allows them to stay and carry on, with their teacher’s often bizarrely inappropriate behavior justified as “crazy wisdom,” intended for everyone’s growth. It is, I’m afraid, absolute delusion, sustained because some of us simply cannot tolerate the loss of our favorite object of reverence and devotion, the one who allowed us to feel we had found our way, that it was the right way, (and usually the only way) and that our spiritual progress was ensured, on schedule, and under the direct supervision of a top representative of God Itself! Not merely a “representative,” though, because such groups tell us that we are presumably sitting in the actual, Living Presence of the One and Only God, the Source of the Universe, appearing in our midst in human form!
Of course it is also true that we are in the same actual, Living Presence of God every second of every day, whether we are sitting before a blade of grass or sitting on the toilet. So when one particular manifestation of the Living God becomes somehow ultra-special, we either have a genuine prophet among us or a psychopath, and usually some weird combination of both that never turns out well.
That said, the non-dual tradition of Advaita, a branch of Vedantic Hinduism, does in fact, insist that “Tat Tvam Asi”: Thou art That. And physicists draw much the same conclusion from another angle: life is all energy, just molecules dancing a rhumba, and it is one energy that is manifesting as separate objects that appear to be real.
So if it is true that We are That, doesn’t it follow that there must be somebody, somewhere, who really knows that truth through direct experience and is more or less able to remain in constant contact with that Realization? Yes, perhaps. And like I said, such people, like Ramana Maharshi, usually tend to be dead.
But while we’re waiting for such Messiahs to show up, in the meantime we need to be thankful for the David Coopers of the world, those who generously give over whatever insight and knowledge they have accumulated on the spiritual path, while remaining transparently human, stubbornly real and ordinary, and collecting no devotees or large sums of money in the process. Nor demanding we prostrate ourselves at their feet or think of them as God, unless we include ourselves and everyone else in that formulation. (In David’s teachings, it wouldn’t even be that we are all God, but rather, that we are each God-ing, i.e., we are a process, not a thing.)
We can and will certainly continue to have mentors, coaches, teachers, and peer-counselors, but perhaps it would be more useful to think of all of them, ultimately, as-imagine this-friends! It might just be time for us to let go of our hunger for Divine heroes and once again uncover the heroic in ourselves and others, and accept that this this really is it, and recognize also that this, the ever-present home of the All-in-All, paradoxically does appear to get better over time as we more and more let go of our me-centered outlook and rest more often in our primordial identity, impartial witnesses to the whole catastrophe.”

Eliezer Sobel
http://www.realitysandwich.com/samll_moments_many_times

127. Ellen - February 4, 2009

110, James B.

“But you know and I know that a sexual predator isn’t ‘okay.’”

Thanks for that lovely post. It brought tears to my eyes. I know who you are and the role you played. And, yes, I trusted you in that time. Glad to know you are still following this long dialogue.

It’s always reassuring to know that there are people out here who deeply understand the dream and all the nuances of it in there. We care and are not the silly formatory picture of negative former students that is presented as unrefutable proof.

Many dear friends still remain persuing non-identification within a vehicle that will not lead them to love, inner peace or transcendence, though they may yet experience momentary glimpses of it. At each juncture, the merry-go-round pauses and then whisks them off to new spiritual titillations.

I’m helping my friends in every way I know how. Anyone reading this who remembers me, is welome to contact me offline. (just Google my full name, and you can find my website with contact details)

128. Ellen - February 4, 2009

#126, Hi LL,
Nice to hear from you and nice post too!

129. dragon - February 4, 2009

110. James B. – February 3, 2009

Even if you don’t intend to inspire anyone:

I think a stirring appeal!

Thank you!

130. Kid Shelleen - February 4, 2009

Laura,

Great post. Thanks.

131. elena - February 4, 2009

Thank you James B., Laura and all for your posts.

Thanks Nigel also for 118.

I remained thinking about the subject of high profile and the mass of members in the Fellowship and wanted to explore those facts.

What is valuable about the public square is that there is no given status. We are truly equal. What is strange about it, is that in regular society the public square has become the incarnation of what is not desireable: people, the dirt of the world, the dark shadow of the city exposing itself without shame.

The Public Square is, nevertheless, where people are demanded to be civilized and people don’t want to be demanded anything. You cannot just go and hurt anyone because you feel like it because you can be sued (so people hide in anonymity) or meet one more aggressive than you that will kill you: both possibilities preside and contain the conflict between the law and freedom of the law.

In institutions of all kinds people are separated into positions of more or less privilege depending on their willingness to accept the hierarchy and its demands.

In the Fellowship many of us never had a “high profile role”, some because they didn’t want what they called the power game, some because they didn’t qualify in the power game and some because they were dangerous to the Fellowship. Some of us, like my self, took fifteen years to understand that it was a power game and not the honour of representing the Conscious School that we loved and supported. The inner circle and Robert know instinctively who is dangerous to them. What matters about the observation is that in our world today, the official proclamation of a position of authority in no matter what institution, gives power to a role within that hierarchy, an “identity” that people carry around, fully “justified” and “identified” with. Once the role has been accepted, like in the Fellowship, their life is conditioned by what the role represents. In the Fellowship, those of us who were never granted the grace of a “position” were also, never allowed to speak and when we did speak, we represented the non-official expression of the Fellowship: the dissonance.

In regular society, eighty percent of the masses of the world are in that same position. Laura’s post about David Cooper touches on the problem of authority and how we envision it. The author, Eliezer, is endlessly looking for a permanently enlightened authority that he can trust, just like regular people are looking for a stable job that can permanently redeem them from the horror of not knowing what they are going to live on. The problem with the way the good of the world are distributed in our time is not a problem of capitalism or communism but a problem of consciousness or looked at inversely, the problem of capitalism and communism is a problem of unconsciousness. The accepted status quo in the world today, in which the majority of people do not have enough social status to have a position that can guarantee them a job and therefore, a dignified life, also tends to keep them in a condition of psychological humiliation. People are hungry but they are not empowered to demand food because they are psychologically too humiliated to ask for anything. If they steal or kill for food, their disgrace and humiliation is ratified and they become in their own eyes and those of others: criminals.
Criminals like that are being killed every day in Colombia by the Black Eagles or other such paramilitary organisations. They call it “cleaning”. It is accepted by the population with an increasingly unquestioned mechanism in which the people they are killing are OF COURSE dangerous. The disappearance of people is accepted by the population just like members of the Fellowship were accepted to disappear without anyone ever officially given an explanation or anyone being empowered enough to ask for one. A world like that gets creepier each day. The I of mankind or of an individual is represented in the official status it is granted by the community, hence the necessity of lawfulness. People do not know how to be lawful outside of the institution, which is why the Public Square terrifies them but it is in the Public Square where the individual must empower himself to demand honourable treatment from his fellow men, not because he is in a given position in an institution but because he or she is a human being and does not need of an official position to be recognized as one.

I will continue to work on this later, I need to go now. The exploration is just that, a look at things that I am trying to express, not a finished view of a long digested meal.

Thank you for listening, I wish you all well.

132. Roosje - February 4, 2009

110. James B.

Dear James,

Thank you for focusing on the real purpose of this blog;
to tell the truth as we have seen and experienced it.

It is heart breaking when a dream gets shattered, when
the possibility of a beautiful brotherhood-fellowship gets corrupted, soiled and ultimately ruined by its leader.

Please keep posting James, we need to hear your voice.

133. tatyana - February 4, 2009

123. Craig Dockter

“Is the new employee, (woman-perhaps Russian),
at the O.H. Grocery Store a Fellowship member?”

No, she is an ex-member.

134. elena - February 4, 2009

Thank you for your post Tatayna, it makes me very happy that you’ve accepted my apologies.

Giorgio, I hope you do too.

135. fofblogmoderator - February 4, 2009

132 is newly moderated

136. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 4, 2009

#120: ‘Not even the death of the teacher may stop it for it has become institutionalized.’

So true! This has happened to many ‘spiritual’ groups after their leader or teacher has died or left due to scandal. The folks just keep doin’ what they’ve always done and remain in the same relationship with their leader or teacher even after they have gone.
One can leave the school physically but can psychically remain.

When I understood that I quit trying to get people out before their time. However, the sexual abuse is another layer of it and should be stopped.

137. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 4, 2009

I had missed Lauralupa’s. Just read it. Kinda goes along with what I said in #136. Please don’t miss #126. Namaste.

138. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - February 4, 2009

I live in Maui and one after the other they come claiming their connection to divine energy, source, you name it. WE ALL HAVE THAT ABILITY. When the search ends, the ‘enlightenment’ begins.

139. Panorea - February 4, 2009

140. whalerider - February 4, 2009

Nigel:
“I was talking with my consultant today and the new subject of ‘Behavioural Activation’ came up. It seems that moving centred ‘I’s can be listened to, to overcome the instinctive inertia that depression brings. The theory is that, by going ahead with an active regime to overcome the ‘I’s that wish to stay in bed etc., it is possible to activate the positive ‘chemicals’ by going against inertia.”

I would agree that keeping active in your behavioral routines will serve to eventually put you in a more elevated mood than lying in bed in a depressed mood. It certainly works for me.

If I may make a suggestion, breaking down your thoughts into I’s may have been useful to establish your inner witness, AND it may no longer serve you to splinter your self into compartments once the inner witness has been formed. “I”s are the remnants of FOFspeak and the cult indoctrination that fosters a culture of self-doubt.

Wasn’t the fourth way designed to work on all centers simultaneously? That’s the value of having an inner witness. That way you don’t have to monitor individual thoughts as in cult thought control.

I would argue that it is more than just a lowly “moving centered I” that wants you to get up and get going in the morning. Could it also be the part of you that wants to live and thrive?

I’ve found it more useful and self-enhancing to observe myself no longer in terms of individual thoughts or I’s from various centers, but in terms of managing my daily moods by witnessing the trances “I find myself” in.

If I am going to go into my daily trances anyway, I rather do it consciously with the flexability to go in and out of trances at will, in order to have more of my inner resources at my disposal, which in turn creates a healthier mood.

It’s the trances that overtake or “happen” to us that keep us from hearing our own inner guide and cause us to emotionally spin our wheels in negative moods.

You might think of what keeps you in bed as the “depression trance”. The sooner you activate a productive trance like the ones that occur in your daily routines, the faster you will witness your mood being elevated.

Also, a healthy breakfast and a brisk morning walk would also serve to raise your metabolism (overcome instinctive intertia) better than lying in bed hungry.

BTW, I also wanted to ask you this: Does the dynamic of elena’s and my interaction mirror in any way what the interaction was like at home between your mother and father when you were growing up? Or did they ever talk about you while you were in the room as though you were’t there?

141. elena - February 4, 2009

In the following posts on the Fellowship of Friends Cult, I wish to explore the fact that External Consideration and Second Line of Work never developed into positive emotions or a dignified life, and on the contrary the extreme and abusive life in the Fellowship Cult gave ground for the development of Systematic Sexual, Physical, Emotional and Intellectual rape by Robert Burton and its members.

Grace
Two

In the present study of the self that I would like to explore, I take it as a premise that positive emotions such as grace and pride are its inherent qualities.

Grace is an objective force both in the spiritual and physical world, it is it’s “spiritual blood”. It lives equally in all men but it lives consciously in some. It is as much an aspect of essence as it is of the spirit. It is a quality of life itself. As a quality of the individual it allows all people to live in awe in the experience of life, of dawn, of sunset. As a quality of life itself, it allows individuals to share joyfully without agendas. It does not have an agenda, it is the “gift”. The gift or the birthright of mankind.

As a quality of the self, or the I, in a depressed individual there is little grace not because there isn’t enough of it in the Universe but because their depressed I is starving of it. Misery in the individual as much as in the world, is the expression of an unbalanced economy of grace!

Grace lives in essence as much as in the Spirit. It lives in essence even if those experiencing and sharing it are not conscious of it. It lives in every expression of love between human beings. Mothers, children, families, friends and societies. It lives freely, “joyfully” in all men and particularly vividly in farmers and those communities who have not impoverished their existence with abusive exploitation of each other and their resources. It lives in the masses of labourers in which there is still human solidarity. It lives painfully in the decadent loneliness of the high classes of the world who have psychologically separated themselves from the community of mankind. The psychological experience of the “my self” as a “private property” separate from the rest of humanity is starving their soul.

Charis – Charity- Caritas

Originally in Latin the word caritas meant preciousness, dearness, high price. From this, in Christian theology, caritas became the standard Latin translation for the Greek word agapē, meaning an unlimited loving-kindness to all others, such as the love of God. (From wikipedia).

“An unlimited loving kindness to all others.”

Charity, as an unlimited loving kindness of all others is also the ability “To Consider” others.

To Consider
5. To show consideration for: failed to consider the feelings of others. 6. To esteem; regard. 7. To look at thoughtfully.
–noun
1.the act of considering; careful thought; meditation; deliberation: I will give your project full consideration.
2.
something that is or is to be kept in mind in making a decision, evaluating facts, etc.:
3.
thoughtful or sympathetic regard or respect; thoughtfulness for others: They showed no consideration for his feelings.
4.
a thought or reflection; an opinion based upon reflection.
6.
importance or consequence.
7.
estimation; esteem: He is held in great consideration by the community.
8.
Law.
a.
something that suffices to make an informal promise legally binding, usually some value given in exchange for the promise.
b.
the hearing of a case by a tribunal.

******

2. Charis is first of all that property that produces joy in its hearers or beholders.
3. It also referred to the presence of grace or beauty, which were the most joy-inspiring of all qualities for the Greek.

Please note: A property that produces joy in its hearers or beholders. Grace and beauty, the most joy inspiring qualities for the Greek. “Joy inspiring qualities.”

It is worth noticing that originally, charis is a “property” that produces joy in the hearers or beholders. It is a property within the individual or outside of him.

4. Over a period of time, charis ceased to refer to grace and beauty as qualities and came to refer to gracious or beautiful things, acts, thoughts, speech, or persons.

5. It came to refer to grace that embodied and expressed itself in gracious actions toward objects, not to favor in the sense of beauty.
6. The usage of the word evolved over a period of time in Greek.
7. It initially referred to grace and beauty as qualities and then to gracious persons or actions, beautiful thoughts or speeches.
8. It referred to grace that expressed itself in gracious actions toward people or things such as favors.
9. Charis is from the Greek root char, which indicates things that produce well being, pleasure, benefit and happiness.

Over a period of how much time was charity, grace and beauty externalized? And since then, how has it become so externalized that it can even be owned by a few.

If we look at the average understanding of such things as grace, charity or dignity today, what do we get? People in the upper classes of the world, not only economically but in any position of power, protect themselves with a veil of grace, charity and dignity apparently given to them by the amount of taxes they pay, or the club they belong to or the status in their job. They treat the rest of the world with contempt and indifference as if the rest of the world did not have what was necessary to deserve the grace of eating, the charity of sharing or the dignity of being.

National
Social
Educational
And racial differences establish the system of values of those who deserve and don’t deserve to live a dignified life. In a human world, two hundred years from now, no one will ask you for your passport, your job credentials or your education to allow you to participate if you are willing to fight for that world today.

In the Fellowship of Friends and other cults, which are the most severe expressions of the spiritual and physical corruption of mankind today, the dignity to have the right to speak and to decide, the charity to be an equal participant and the grace to be worthy of kindness and generosity and experience joy and gratitude is the private property of “the Chosen Ones”: The Guru and the inner circle in Cults, the Owners of the World in regular society and anyone who has granted him or her self a title of “chosen one above others” because of his national and social or educational and racial status.

It is not just that money has given a few the right to own three quarters of the goods of the world, it is that we are all convinced that it has also granted them the sum total of dignity, grace and charity. Like in the Fellowship of Friends Cult in which Robert Burton not only receives ninety percent of the income of two thousand members but is the soulful owner of dignity, charity and grace while the rest of the members are convinced that they are “beggars” by his inner circle and treated as such, unless they too belong to the personal inner circle of the privileged chosen ones. Their “beautiful friendships”, they call it, their “clubs” in regular society.

Grace, charity and dignity are objective realities that no man should ever deprive another of. They live within the individual with the same strength with which they live in the interaction between individuals. In every interaction between human beings, what is being juggled with divine precision is the grace, charity and dignity of the interaction.

There is no grace, charity or dignity in rape, extortion or fraud. There is no need to check with morality to experience the immorality of the facts and the argument of Fellowship members that they can continue to extortion, rape and fraudulently continue their activities is nothing but criminal.

In strict terms of the System’s Vocabulary, the Fellowship of Friend’s Cult lives on the fine hydrogens of the member’s essences who deceived by their natural trust on other human beings, willingly submit to it. It corrupts their interactions to the point of developing hopelessly defenceless hasnamusses or schizoid two personality individuals willing to support the rape of other members. Cults live on raping from their members what they are promising they will achieve.

The Fellowship of Friends Cult is a criminal organization against human dignity, a dangerous and anti-social ground for all of its participants and the people connected to them. It is so pervasive, that even after leaving the cult and knowing the effects of its corruption, numerable ex-members are so neutralized by its effects that they cannot act lawfully against its crimes.

Today, it is a crime to naturally trust other human beings because if you are raped and abused by anyone, the law does not protect you. It looks at you as responsible for your stupidity. Look for a lawyer and you’ll find that the whole institution of lawyers is as corrupt as ninety percent of the rest. These are OUR laws, our lawyers and our politicians and gurus. These are the laws we are supporting and accepting. We are by law, accepting that we can lawfully be raped sexually, physically, intellectually and emotionally by no matter who. It is time we change the law or take a good look at the law and realize that it is not that our natural rights are not in the Constitution, it is that the corrupted people in power today have deformed and adapted the laws to suit their personal interests. Charity, grace and dignity cannot survive in a world like that, nor can you or anyone else.

142. elena - February 4, 2009

correction:
The psychological experience of the “my self” as a “private property” separate from the rest of humanity is starving their soul.
for
The psychological experience of the “my self” as a “private property” separate from the rest of humanity is starving our soul.

143. elena - February 4, 2009

Roosje,

Welcome to the Public Square!

144. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 4, 2009

FoF Blog:
On: May 1, 2008 by Pavel:

Moving to a New Location
[That was after 33 pages of former hosting site and about 2 years.]

As promised, the Fellowship of Friends Discussion will be moving to a new venue, which can be found HERE.

This blog will stay here as it is to allow people to backtrack if they so wish. There are more than 15,000 comments by now so happy hunting.

– – – – – –

Since page 34 and less than 1 year, there have now been about 10,000 more posts.

Total: ~26,000 posts in less than 3 years on 64 pages.

Greater Fellowship website now has over 900 subscribers. Many discussions going on there, as well.

– – – – – –

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive God to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

Max Ehrmann, 1927
(1872-1945)

145. Yesri Baba - February 5, 2009

128 lauralupa

I was wondering where you went and here you are with that beauty.
I got Sobel’s ’99th Monkey’ back around ‘birthday’ time. It is a fun book- lot’s of laughs-like the blog.

146. brucelevy - February 5, 2009

Worth a listen.

147. ton - February 5, 2009

elena circa 141
“Like in the Fellowship of Friends Cult in which Robert Burton not only receives ninety percent of the income of two thousand members but is the soulful owner of dignity, charity and grace….”

although the horse’s ass you refer to here is certainly the beneficiary of ‘charity,’ he is certainly and truly no ‘owner of dignity or grace’ — the later is simply a result of a hall of smoke and mirrors perpetuated by the hypnotized state of those who buy into ‘the system.’

whalerider 140, thanks for pointing out the vestigial effects of ‘FOFspeak’ and cult indoctrination. in some cases, throwing out the baby with the bath-water is the way forward.

148. elena - February 5, 2009

Ton,

Are you clarifying the idea that within the Fellowship Robert is the only one who is recognized the status of divine being worthy of dignity, charity and grace while the rest of the members have to literally kiss his ass not only in bed but in every event?

149. ton - February 5, 2009

elena,
just to clarify: the horse’s ass you refer to here is certainly the beneficiary of ‘charity,’
BUTT…
he is certainly and truly no ‘owner of dignity or grace’ — the later is simply a result of a hall of smoke and mirrors perpetuated by the hypnotized state of those who buy into ‘the system.’

150. elena - February 5, 2009

Thanks for Storm Bruce, my humor gets better each day and no, this is not enough but I like how you put it, just give me a little time and I’ll recover the initial song in your heart! Two or three hundred years!
In the meantime could you please remain my best enemy?

Here’s one for you!

Darn Ton, is that all you heard?
I mean, Ton, somebody’s love if not mine, did you hear the rest?
Thanks so much for hearing something and still bothering to read my rants!

151. elena - February 5, 2009

Oh Ton, Now I hear you, the System is your problem?

Beyond the System is me and you when you are willing to meet me!

Don’t look at the stick I use for walking, it’s only a stick!
Don’t miss the flowers in the flower vase
but feel free to not look and miss what your mind desires!
I’m ready to greet you anyway!

152. ton - February 5, 2009

elena, forgive me if i select a few salient points to address…. of which you offer up so many, too many…. please do not misunderstand, that’s not all i ‘hear’ when i read your posts.

for what it’s worth… from MODELS OF THE MIND by Adam Crabtree:

“One thing, however,, which modern psychology has not year learned, but which the kahunas know… is the fact that all efforts to remove a complex will be far more successful if those efforts include a combination of logical appeal to the patient’s conscious self, mild suggestion, and the use of a physical stimulus to accompany the administering of suggestion. (Secret Science Behind Miracles, p. 194) How does one work with the complex? Remember you are dealing with fixed beliefs in the Low Self. If, for instance, the Middle and Low Self agree that the person has sinned, the Low Self insists there must be punishment for the sin. This then may become the source of an illness. When the Low Self believes that the person has sinned, it is ashamed and will refuse to pray to the High Self and can lose its guidance (which is normally given in sleep). Some means of giving up the need to punish must be found. These means must touch the Low Self. Often rituals of various kinds are most effective. One can use suggestion to implant a strong thought form in the Low Self of the person. Effectiveness depends on the acceptance by the Low Self. Often physical means, such as rituals or symbolic acts, are useful. The object is to get the Low Self to accept a suggestion contrary to its complex of beliefs. This is best done by using an overpowering charge of vital force to accompany the offering of the suggestion.”

this excerpt may be variously interpreted and used…. in the case of the sort of mind control exerted by the FOF, the rituals and ‘vital force’ that accompanies the ‘offering of suggestion’ involves among other things, the acts of sexual aggression employed by the canker itself. on the flip-side of this equation, the foregoing excerpt may also be interpreted and used as a means of dissolving the binding effects of FOF mind control, but only if the interpreter is able to take personal responsibility for their life and actions… i know, this is a huge step for those still held in the clutches of the cult, you know, those who still need to be told by an ‘authority figure’ what to think and do and how to live their lives.

153. elena - February 5, 2009

You’ve lost me Ton
but the song is good
Ton, Ton, was what my dog was called!
The happiest and ugliest poodle I ever saw!

If I get the idea, “The object is to get the Low Self to accept a suggestion contrary to its complex of beliefs” that’s one way of doing it although I’ve not a clue what this guy means by lower and high self.

For me, there’s not “getting” anything from anyone but one day healing enough to inspire others who I love beyond my rants, to taste a little of the beauty I’ve had the “grace” to taste! Not only so that we can laugh again but so that they can continue to laugh and love on their own for the glory of life!

154. ton - February 5, 2009

just to clarify the previous posts (i should say first that this may be variously interpreted and/or misinterpreted…. elena, i’m glad you are at least trying to ‘hear’ me here) and i hope this helps: ‘the system’ is no longer my ‘problem’ as you suggest — i would suggest to forget ‘the system’ and create your own ‘rituals’ and ‘vital force’:

good night all, time to dream….

155. elena - February 5, 2009

Thanks Ton, Just a little more time, I’m only just crawling out of the Fellowship and stopping to beg bloggers to feed me! Could I still use that trolley for a little while?

Is it six or eight hours later where you are? You up at dawn? I suppose you’re gone already but I’d be curious to know your bedtime then!

156. ton - February 5, 2009

o, i thought i was going to bed… but ok elena, i’ll entertain this a bit longer… another kiss before dying…. thanks for more of your condesension… of course you will say that i ‘misunderstand’ yet again but…. thanks for thinking of me in the same patronizing way as your ‘uglyliest’ albiet ‘happy’ dog…. that’s ok i know you expect me to excuse this because you are still new to the ‘healing’ process…. and of course i know you spent too many years in the “inner circle” sucking-off that asshole gerarld…

157. elena - February 5, 2009

Goodness, I thought you’d gone, I was washing dishes and it’s late here too. Did I upset you again?

My ugliest little dog was one of the most wonderful things I’ve ever had! When I went into the pet shop there were many and he was happy, he was so happy I knew I had to buy him although he was ugly! No harm meant, just felt like singing a little.

Thanks for that healing negative, I’ll develop it right away and try not to use it again.

As for Girard, you sound so upset, I must have hurt you, well, I seem to be good at that even when I don’t mean to and this time I really didn’t. Let’s leave Girard out, he confirmed the divorce yesterday and what’s most amazing about it is that my right hand still looks for the ring! Must be the Stockholm Syndrome still, like begging bloggers to love me no matter what!

But I’m healing hon! I’m healing all too well thanks to all!

158. elena - February 5, 2009

Ton, you sound so upset out of nothing I think you’re in love with me!!! Now don’t get mad about that! But you sound like my husbands!

159. The FOFion - February 5, 2009

FOF Breaks World Record with Word Exercise

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — Guinness World Records officially announced Wednesday a new world record set by the Fellowship of Friends (FOF).

FOF, a doomsday religious cult situated in a secluded location in the Sierra Nevada foothills, has broken the world mark for the most words included in one word exercise. Analysts were shocked to discover that the new list includes 75 words that FOF followers must try not to use — an unprecedented number.

“We’ve seen a fairly large number of words on this type of list,” said a GWR spokesperson, “but we’ve never seen anything of this magnitude. This is by far the largest, most comprehensive set of words we’ve ever seen in a word exercise.”

Guinness World Records include numerous categories and sub-categories — including the Human Body, Amazing Feats, the Natural World, Science and Technology, Arts and Media, Sports and Games, and Cults for Intellectuals.

“You know, this is obviously a great honor, but the exercises are already creating some communication problems within the group,” said an FOF spokesperson on Wednesday. “It’s one thing to keep track of three or four words at a time, but it’s a different story when you’re trying to remember 75 words. Conversations come to a halt.”

The spokesperson also noted a number of arguments that result from the exercises.

“People disagree or forget which words are included,” she said. “Just this morning, I heard two people going back and forth with each other like school kids saying, ‘Is not!’ — ‘Is too!” — ‘Is not!’ –‘Is too!’ It’s really gotten out of hand.”

Meanwhile, the question that most analysts are asking is “why?”

“Well, the idea behind word exercises is that they lead us to divine presence,” said a spokesperson from the Office of the Teacher (OOTT). “Plus, we don’t want our conversations to drift into unsavory and unpleasant topics. We must be refined and remain deferential to our beloved Teacher in order to intone the sequence, and of course to be in a state of divine presence. Divine presence is important. Did I use the term ‘divine presence’ yet? I can’t say ‘divine presence’ enough.”

Some of the words on the list include fellatio, predator, greed, cult,and pathological. (The complete list of words is shown at the end of this article.)

“You know, it’s pretty obvious why these words are on the list,” said a customer at the Oregon House Store. “I mean, come on. It would be embarrassing to the FOF if they used these words in everyday conversations. From what I hear, if anyone hears these words, they deliver a stern facial expression and then abruptly ignore the perpetrator. It’s a fun little game.”

But for the FOF, the cult business is obviously not a game.

FOF Person-in-Charge Robert Earl Burton predicted more than three decades ago that nuclear war would destroy civilization in November 2006. Burton also asked hundreds of followers to move to Oregon House in the late 1990s so that they wouldn’t perish in a major earthquake, and so that they could populate the rural area to become an “ark” for a new civilization.

Because of his failures in predicting the future, Burton rarely talks about the so-called prophecies any longer, but he seems to hold out hope that the world financial crisis will exonerate him entirely. If the economy gets bad enough, he hints that he may unearth some of his old predictions of geologic and military catastrophes.

“There’s a still chance that an angel will travel back in time and administer these shocks,” one FOF follower said Wednesday. “When that happens, Burton’s dates will still be accurate.”

================

The following is the complete list of words included in the new FOF word exercises. These words are discouraged in conversation with other followers:

cult
fellatio
predator
manipulative
deceptive
greed
denial
secrecy
lies
exploitation
abuse
defalcate
steal
misuse
violate
hypocritical
misdirection
obfuscation
crime
destruction
harmful
selfish
irresponsible
pathological
sociopath
imbalanced
sick
extreme
insane
discouragement
despair
depression
sleep
blindness
unconscionable
malicious
troubling
absurd/absurdity
pretentious
dissent
accountability
truth
transparency
discussion
airing
argue
disagree
dispute
candor
listen
openness
skepticism
questioning
conscience
re-evaluate
re-examine
think
empathy
compassion
inspired
creative
productive
healthy
honesty
thoughtfulness
integrity
freedom
escape
self-respect
self-guidance
self-directed
self-confidence
reconnect
rediscovery
courage

160. elena - February 5, 2009

I’m afraid you’ve made me very happy, I thought I couldn’t get a good look from anyone any more!

161. ton - February 5, 2009

elena dear, no upset here, believe me…. and don’t be afraid of being made very happy…. you are not fooling anyone (including yourself) when you say you thought you ‘couldn’t get a look from anyone any more’ — afterall, u know as well as, or better than any of us here, that the blog can be used as a way to draw attention to yourself…. good night love, enjoy your dishes.

162. fofblogmoderator - February 5, 2009

159 is newly moderated

163. Yesri Baba - February 5, 2009

“It’s one thing to keep track of three or four words at a time, but it’s a different story when you’re trying to remember 75 words. Conversations come to a halt.”

Guess they will just have to go to more meetings.

164. Ill Never Tell - February 5, 2009

Oh! I really get very negative about word exercises. So, well, don’t you think we could stop this insanity?

165. Ellen - February 5, 2009

#159, FoFion

“There’s still a chance that an angel will travel back in time and administer these shocks,” one FOF follower said Wednesday. “When that happens, Burton’s dates will still be accurate.”

Yo – good example of the double and triple think! Thanks for the hearty belly laugh!

166. dragon - February 5, 2009

BLACK HUMOUR today:

Who’s doing the dishes?

Joe wanted to buy a motorbike. He doesn’t have much luck until, one day, he comes across a Harley with a ‘for sale’ sign on it.

The bike seems even better than a new one, although it is 10 years old.

It is shiny and in absolute mint condition.

He immediately buys it, and asks the seller how he kept it in such great condition for 10 years.

‘Well, it’s quite simple, really,’ says the seller, ‘whenever the bike is outside and it’s gonna rain, rub Vaseline on the chrome. It protects it from the rain.’

And he hands Joe a jar of Vaseline.

That night, his girlfriend, Sandra, invites him over to meet her parents. Naturally, they take the bike there.

But just before they enter the house, Sandra stops him and says, ‘I have to tell you something about my family before we go in.’

‘When we eat dinner, we don’t talk. In fact, the first person who says anything during dinner has to do the dishes.’

‘No problem,’ he says. And in they go.

Joe is shocked. Right smack in the middle of the living room is a huge stack of dirty dishes.

In the kitchen is another huge stack of dishes. Piled up on the stairs, in the corridor, everywhere he looks, dirty dishes.

They sit down to dinner and, sure enough, no one says a word.

As dinner progresses, Joe decides to take advantage of the situation.

So he leans over and kisses Sandra.

No one says a word.

So he reaches over and fondles her breasts.

Still, nobody says a word.

So he stands up, grabs her, rips her clothes off, throws her on the table, and screws her right there, in front of her parents.His girlfriend is a little flustered, her dad is obviously livid, and her mom horrified when he sits back down, but no one says a word. He looks at her mom.

‘She’s got a great body,’ he thinks. So he grabs the mom, bends her over the dinner table, and has his way with her every which way right there on the dinner table.

Now his girlfriend is furious and her dad is boiling, but still, total silence.

All of a sudden there is a loud clap of thunder, and it starts to rain.

Joe remembers his bike, so he pulls the jar of Vaseline from his pocket.

Suddenly the father shouted….’I’ll do the f****** dishes!!!

167. elena - February 5, 2009

Ton: …afterall, u know as well as, or better than any of us here, that the blog can be used as a way to draw attention to yourself…

Of course! that’s what I mean when I say that I’ve been feeding off the blog’s tit like an orphan come out of Irak! I needed to know how I was alive and surprisingly enough the more the insults, the more I could get a grip on myself. The humor now is very healthy, even the black one! If Bruce keeps making fun of me I might throw off this whole consciousness uniform! Of course, it was the love from Zoe and Dragon who’ve never been in, that made me realize I wasn’t as crazy! Had I remained in the hands of Fellowship ex-members… we are a strange lot and opening up this can full of “that” has not been easy. This week was difficult, I’ve had a pain in my stomach for two days. Last night I couldn’t sleep it’s getting so bad, but God, I’m beginning to get happy. Like a suit that’s beginning to fit after years of not wearing it.

If my husband and the Fellowship only knew that it is possible to regain that feeling of “normality”… of getting angry when one has to and laugh when there’s a reason to without holding one’s self like a pig on a diet!

So glad you’re not upset again, why did you sound so? but I know you won’t answer that, we are beginning to know each other here and it’s wonderful!

Dragon, I found this yesterday. I can’t understand much but it looks well done. Thought you might enjoy a glimpse at the madness here.

Have a great day!

168. elena - February 5, 2009

FOFion.
Bravo!

169. elena - February 5, 2009

Postminimalist,
I need you concertmaster! Thanks for your many posts!

Laura, If you don’t get back here right away, I’ll fire you from that other job you got! You think life is easy without you?
And Art, Veramente, the other side of the river, I know it’s not that but that’s how I remember you! And all who’ve come and gone!

170. Ellen - February 5, 2009

#110, James B.
“I was also forced to see that although I had no direct part in his ‘private’ life, by continuing to represent him I was assuring those vulnerable ones that his behavior was okay.”

Girard, it’s not OK.
Rowena, it’s not OK.
Robert, it’s not OK.
Candice, it’s not OK.
Daniel, it’s not OK.
Mary, it’s not OK.
Christian, it’s not OK.
Linda, it’s not OK.
Karen, it’s not OK.
Lydia, it’s not OK.
Ken, it’s not OK.
Shelia, it’s not OK.
Michael, it’s not OK.

“But you know and I know that a sexual predator isn’t ‘okay.’”

Carol, it’s not OK.
Charles, it’s not OK.
Guinevere, it’s not OK.
Guernot, it’s not OK.
Robert, it’s not OK.
Rosalind, it’s not OK.
Timothy, it’s not OK.
Ruth, it’s not OK.
Asaf, it’s not OK.
Edward, it’s not OK.
Lidia, it’s not OK.
Benjamin, it’s not OK.
Wayne, it’s not OK.
Corrine, it’s not OK.
Dennis, it’s not OK.
Alfie, it’s not OK.
Racheli, it’s not OK.
Richard, it’s not OK.
Judith, it’s not OK.

#126, lauralupa
“The other half is somehow able to twist the truth into a version that allows them to stay and carry on, with their teacher’s often bizarrely inappropriate behavior justified as “crazy wisdom,” intended for everyone’s growth. It is, I’m afraid, absolute delusion, sustained because some of us simply cannot tolerate the loss of our favorite object of reverence and devotion, the one who allowed us to feel we had found our way, that it was the right way, (and usually the only way) and that our spiritual progress was ensured, on schedule, and under the direct supervision of a top representative of God itself!”

Imke, it’s not OK.
Leonard, it’s not OK.
Genevieve, it’s not OK.
Gunter, it’s not OK.
Edit, it’s not OK.
Alisanne, it’s not OK.
Ursula, it’s not OK.
Mauro, it’s not OK.
Angelina, it’s not OK.
Francoise, it’s not OK.
Dominique, it’s not OK.
Hubert, it’s not OK.
Maureen, it’s not OK.
Sarah, it’s not OK.
Donald, it is not OK.
Elaine, it is not OK.

ABE, IT IS NOT OK.

171. The FOFion - February 5, 2009

Columbia University Researchers Debate Which is More Insane: the FOF or the Blog

NEW YORK (ARK) — A panel of research scientists spoke before a packed house at Columbia University Thursday to discuss one of the pressing issues of our time: Which is more insane — the Fellowship of Friends doomsday religious cult, or The Blog?

“On the one hand, we have several hundred followers who are in blatant denial about their cult leader,” said Professor Harold B. Faraway, who opened the discussion as one of the four main speakers. “They were told that a depression should have struck 25 years ago, that an earthquake should have swallowed most of California more than 10 years ago, and that nuclear war should have occurred more than two years ago. They know their leader has manipulated perhaps hundreds of his followers into having sex with him with promises of salvation, and with fear of banishment if they do not comply. They know that he lives like a king while numerous followers struggle to make ends meet. They know that their cult leader stifles any open discussion about these things, and expels any members who oppose him.”

“On the other hand,” Faraway continued, “we have many former followers who gain some satisfaction from trying to expose the goings-on within the Fellowship of Friends, and who believe they are doing some good by articulating their views in an open forum over the internet.

“Hmm. Which do you think is more insane?”

172. Panorea - February 5, 2009

Wow Ellen!

Friends, still in there,

YOU know it is not OK! ✖

173. The FOFion - February 5, 2009

It’s Official: Students Asked Not to Photograph Each Other for ‘Being in the School’

OREGON HOUSE, Calif. (ARK) — For almost four decades, Fellowship of Friends Teacher Robert Burton has encouraged his followers to “photograph” one another. The tool has long been a mainstay of the FOF, and it’s often touted as one of the main reasons for remaining: Followers believe they won’t receive essential photographs outside the school.

However, Burton recently enacted a rule that has long been tacitly followed, but never formally acknowledged as a rule: Don’t photograph each other for being members of the FOF.

“Robert has asked that students not photograph each other for being in the school,” an FOF spokesperson said at a morning press conference. “While students should gladly photograph others for chief feature, body type, center of gravity, being negative, lacking valuation, and so forth, we don’t want them photographing each other for being in the school, or being in blatant denial, and we don’t want people getting photographed for compartmentalized thinking. We can’t have that. Sure, we want people to see themselves — but not see themselves TOO much.”

According to FOF theories, giving and receiving photographs helps followers to do “the work.” Without feedback and guidance from others in an esoteric school, no true work can be done, according to the theory, which is one of reasons followers remain despite all of the “red flags” that dot the landscape at Apollo, the group’s hideaway in the Sierra Foothills.

A follower was recently kicked out of the FOF after delivering a photograph.

“I was rather surprised,” he said in an exclusive interview with The FOFion. “I told a guy he was a complete asshole and that he’s a worthless piece of shit who doesn’t deserve to live, and he meekly bowed and said with all sincerity, ‘Thank you for the photograph.’ However, I then told him that it would help him to grow and start a new, healthy, and productive life if he simply left the Fellowship of Friends. Someone overheard me, and I was gone.”

174. dragon - February 5, 2009

167. Elena,

Nice!

Medellin is subject to change and the film shows it is a model for the integration of paramilitary people.

It is a start!

# 170.

M—a K—-z, it is not OK! Try to undo the shackles!

175. WhaleRider - February 5, 2009

From Wolinsky (1991)

“…the Deep Trance Phenomenon of confusion is the pivotal bridging mechanism in the creation of hypnotic identities. To briefly reiterate: Confusion is the transitional state in which a person shifts out of his real self and into the creation of defensive or compensatory identities. (i.e.“student”)

Roles and self images are also part of the fabric of hypnotic identities and are created in the transition space of confusion.

To be in a trance identity means we have fused or become one with that experience. Whether that identity is “I am a loser” ( or “I am asleep” or “I am a student of the Fourth Way”), or “I am a competent editor”, in both cases one’s experience of self is being narrowed down. There is a self (not just a ‘state’) behind the trance identity that is much larger. If I can pick up and put down the trance identity I call “Stephen” then I am free of it. But if I pick it up and can’t put it down, then I think that is all I am, and I shrink my focus of attention by limiting myself to that narrow conception.”

ABANDON THE SYSTEM!!!!!!

176. elena - February 5, 2009

Ellen, thank you.

Grace, charity and dignity are not in any System but in your self. Never lose them out of your sight!

177. Ellen - February 5, 2009

#170, Dragon,
M___a K___z ist ausgetreten vor mehr als einem Jahr.

178. dragon - February 5, 2009

# 177 Ellen,

eine sehr erfreuliche Nachricht!

Das erklärt vieles!

Danke!

179. dragon - February 5, 2009

178.

falls es die betreffende Person ist, wirklich vor einem Jahr?!

(verschiedenes würde nicht völlig damit in Einklang zu bringen sein aber gut, – raus ist raus!)

180. Ellen - February 5, 2009

Dragon,
Nun, etwa so, sie mieteten ein kleines Haus von mir, damit ich weiß, aber nicht das genaue Datum, raus ist raus…

181. dragon - February 5, 2009

Ellen:

For you: Thanks a thousand flowers/Merci/Danke! and:

Inner Joy, Butto Bansuri:

182. Yesri Baba - February 5, 2009

Ellen and Dragon-

183. elena - February 6, 2009

Whalerider, why would you abandon what you’ve inherited, paid for and finally own? Such as your self?

The following text is chilling no matter how you look at it and it’s closely related to life in the Fellowship of Friends.

Text 16

THE RAPE OF THE MIND: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide, and Brainwashing, by Joost A. M. Meerloo, M.D.
Continuation of Section: The Law of Survival Versus the Law of Loyalty

The ritual of self-accusation and breast-beating and unconditional surrender to the rules of the elders is part of age-old religious rites. It was based on a more or less unconscious belief in a supreme and omnipotent power. This power may be the monolithic party state or a mysterious deity. It follows the old inner device of “Credo quia absurdum” (“I believe because it is absurd”), of faithful submission to a super-world stronger than the reality which confronts our senses.

Why the totalitarian and orthodox dogmatic ideology sticks to such a rigid attitude, with prohibition of investigation of basic premises, is a complicated psychological question. Somewhere the reason is related to the fear of change, the fear of the risk of change of habits, the fear of freedom, which may be psychologically related to the fear of the finality of death.

The denial of human freedom and equality lifts the authoritarian man beyond his mortal fellows. His temporary power and omnipotence give him the illusion of eternity. In his totalitarianism he denies death and ephemeral existence and borrows power from the future. He has to invent and formulate a final Truth and protective dogma to justify his battle against mortality and temporariness. From then on, the new fundamental certainty must be hammered into the minds of adepts and slaves.

What happens inside the human psyche under severe circumstances of mental and physical attack is clarified for us in the studies of the general mental defenses available to man; earlier, I myself tried in several publications to analyze the various ways people defend themselves against fear and pressure.

In the last phases of brainwashing and menticide, the self-humiliating submission of the victims serves as an inner defensive device annihilating the prosecuting inquisitor in a magic way. The more they accuse themselves, the less logical reason there is for HIS existence. Giving in and being even more cruel toward oneself makes the inquisitor and judge, as it were, impotent and shows the futility of the accusing regime.

We may say that brainwashing and menticide provoke the same inner defensive mechanism that we observe in melancholic patients. Through their mental selfbeatings, they try to get rid of fear and to avoid a more deeply seated guilt. They punish themselves in advance in order to overcome the idea of final punishment for some hidden, unknown, and worse crime. The victim of menticide conquers his tormentor by becoming even more cruel toward himself than the inquisitor. In this passive way, he annihilates his enemy.

Now we can look at it in more detail.

Why the totalitarian and orthodox dogmatic ideology sticks to such a rigid attitude, with prohibition of investigation of basic premises, is a complicated psychological question. Somewhere the reason is related to the fear of change, the fear of the risk of change of habits, the fear of freedom, which may be psychologically related to the fear of the finality of death.

______In the search for wholesomeness or unity man must be able to let go of both his self and the world. This is very frightening. It involves letting go of the mind and every rope with which the mind connects to the world. It involves walking on the tight-rope on which you yourself are the rope. It implies trust in your ability to be. Trust, is the most powerful positive emotion in the process of becoming one’s self.
In a Cult in which the guru does not allow the members to develop trust in them selves and instead gradually becomes the repository of that energy, he literally and for all practical purposes replaces the “self” of the member. In giving the guru full authority to overtake his will, the member is rendered helpless.
The practice of trusting a guru in a particular ritual or in personal and direct contact with him in the way of the monk or the yogi may be a necessary aspect of that practice but in the Fourth Way, the adept is meant to develop his own self and not a pathological dependence to the guru. Gurus such as Robert Burton take advantage of the member’s ignorant knowledge in relation to how the Fourth Way is supposed to work, relying on the texts and traditional common knowledge on the need to surrender to the Teacher. Of course, if the members themselves were faithful to the System’s idea that the Fourth Way must continue to happen in life, they would not succumb so easily to such corrupted practices of the System.
Gurdjieff and Ouspensky might not have been the greatest teachers but nowhere do we find that they actually developed a cult. They worked with individual members on a one on one relationship more than in a generalized set of ideas for a mass of “undifferentiated members” with whom they never spoke.
In replacing his own self by idolatry for the guru, it is interesting to observe that in the Fellowship of Friends, rather than working with the freedom of life and its law of accident, which the adept must overcome by changes in his own level of being, the members gradually developed a psychopathic ritual of repeating the same conditioned activity over and over again. As they lose the ability to be present to their own lives, they become increasingly dependent on the Guru’s direction and precise control on what they work on. The “beautifying of Apollo”, the work on “The Ark” replaced the freedom of working with their own destiny and its obstacles. The compulsive physical construction of the Cult’s property (winery, academy, town hall, vineyard and lodge) became the compulsive useless and circular effort in which Robert could change everything round and round no matter how many times without ever developing anything because the more time and effort they invested in it, the more lifeless it became. LIFELESS: an activity repeated mechanically: dinners, winery, concerts, meetings: all demanding the strenuous work of members under strict control of Robert for the whole and only sake of divinizing and enthroning the queen in a man’s body, as the one and only conscious being on planet earth.
For the members who join as regular human beings, in an exalted state of “having found a real School”, the devotion with which they offer themselves, their essence, is quickly channelled into a long corridor of self denial which is perceived by the member as a necessary effort for his evolution. The renunciation to life is taken up literally in the cult without addressing the practice of non-identification present in the System, which has nothing to do with externally separating from regular life. Instead of developing an increasingly deep trust in his ability to act in life, the member gradually surrenders to the much more comfortable position of not having to decide anything and relying on the Guru’s direction in every aspect of his or her life. Comfortable for his willingness to sacrifice but extremely uncomfortable for his self affirmation. The activities within the cult, which gradually become more and more demanding of time and energy, finally replace the whole of what he knew as “his life”.
The Rape of the Mind: The denial of human freedom and equality lifts the authoritarian man beyond his mortal fellows. His temporary power and omnipotence give him the illusion of eternity. In his totalitarianism he denies death and ephemeral existence and borrows power from the future. He has to invent and formulate a final Truth and protective dogma to justify his battle against mortality and temporariness. From then on, the new fundamental certainty must be hammered into the minds of adepts and slaves.

_______The power of this phenomenon is crucial to the understanding of why the Cult works.
Human Freedom
Equality
Omnipotence
Power
Eternity
Truth
No death
Fundamental Certainty

All these are characteristic of Unity and the wholesomeness that every individual is seeking to achieve consciously or unconsciously.
In “dressing” him self with these qualities, the guru incarnates what the adepts are yearning for. In giving up “trust in their own self”, they surrender the possibility of developing themselves for the development of the guru’s vision. They become his voluntary slaves: “The victim of menticide conquers his tormentor by becoming even more cruel toward himself than the inquisitor.” The actual suicide is only the external expression of a slow process of self-destruction that has been taking place for many years in the life of the Cult.

184. whalerider - February 6, 2009

elena:
“Whalerider, why would you abandon what you’ve inherited, paid for and finally own? Such as your self?”

What do you mean “abandon”?

185. elena - February 6, 2009

175. WhaleRider – February 5, 2009
From Wolinsky (1991)
….. then I think that is all I am, and I shrink my focus of attention by limiting myself to that narrow conception.”

ABANDON THE SYSTEM!!!!!!

What do you?

186. elena - February 6, 2009

The actual suicide is only the external expression of a slow process of self-destruction that has been taking place for many years in the life of the Cult.

correction: The actual suicide is only the external expression of a slow process of self-destruction that has been taking place for many years in the lifelessness of the Cult.

187. up with which I will not put - February 6, 2009

This may or may not go over well, but I feel as though it needs to be said, so here goes:

Writing for a weblog is a bit like a periodical. Readership, sustained interest, and participation in the blog will fall if it’s hard to find interesting or informative writing.

I realize this is subjective, so I’m not pretending to speak for everyone, but here’s what I find most interesting when I’m reading anything on this site:

– First-hand accounts that describe an experience with the FoF.
– Posts that clearly state an opinion.
– short, humorous quips
– honest, straightforward opinions that come from the heart.
– a wide range of views from several different posters.
– occasional quotations or poetry
– youtube links just for fun
– links to related topics that help us draw comparisons
– posts that try to avoid fof-speak
– Posts that are not so long where it forces you to scroll down three or four times.
– Arguments that are respectful of the opinions of others, but that are also direct and forceful.
– Pro-fof commentary, because it adds fuel to the discussion.

So, I know this site will just be what it’s going to be, but I do think some people share the above views with me — whether they state them or not. If the goal is just to vent, then I think none of the above really matters, and people can just vent without a care about whether anyone is reading this. And there is definitely something to be said for that.

However, if we really want a large number of people to keep reading and participating here… the above is something to think about. This is not a directed criticism at anyone. Everyone is just writing because they feel the need, and because they feel it will help, and we’re all just doing the best we can. I love you all – Have fun!

188. dragon - February 6, 2009

182. Yesri

elle l’a !

back to life!

for you:

189. elena - February 6, 2009

http://www.universalastrology.com.au/pluto_capricorn.html

Just found this one. It looks serious enough!

And this one.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/astrologicalmusings/2008/10/pluto-in-capricorn-and-bank-ba.html

Pluto in Capricorn and bank bailouts across the globe

Sunday October 19, 2008
Categories: Financial markets
It’s interesting to see the way the fears of Pluto in Sagittarius is giving way to Pluto in Capricorn. In Sagittarius we fear (Pluto) the end of expansion, the end of available credit, the end of freedom, all Sagittarian concepts. As a result, governments (Capricorn/Saturn) around the world are starting to pour money and capital (Capricorn) into their banks (more Capricorn in the form of social structures and governments, which will likely result in the whole system exploding (Pluto) and needing total and complete overhaul. News reports indicate that European nations have now committed $2 trillion US to propping up banks and the stock market.

All of the world leaders instrumental in this process are saying that not to take action is more dangerous than taking erroneous action. This is a very Sagittarian concept – for the element of fire, action is key and practicality comes second. The noted economists are all saying this infusion of capital will not turn the credit markets around because it doesn’t address the root cause of the problems, but government leaders are desperately trying to cling to the old beliefs in infinite expansion of the Pluto in Sagittarius era.

The mindset of Pluto in Capricorn is very different than Pluto in Sagittarius. When Sagittarius is at work, expansion feeds more expansion. The focus now should instead be on a practical application of sound economic theory to build a solid foundation (Capricorn) to the global economic system, rather than try to increase investor optimism (Sagittarius) to keep the stock market in an overinflated state.

The German government has committed 500 billion Euros to guarantee interbank lending and recapitalize banks:

“We have placed the first foundation stone of a new financial order,” said chancellor Angela Merkel, underlining that nothing would ever be the same again in banking.

Nothing will be the same in banking, as astrologers have known as we watched the advent of Pluto in Capricorn. Unfortunately, though, dumping this quantity of cash into a failing financial system will not prove to be the foundation stone of anything, except perhaps the wealth of the banking industry and the powers behind it.

_______It makes sense because they are putting money into supporting the same system which has to change for a more humanitarian one. Obama is probably getting stuck in this riddle although he seems to know that the direction is different. Playing along with the System so that the System doesn’t kill him but… too high a price. The resources will get wasted in the traditional System until it explodes.

Like Fellowship members feeding Robert with endless amounts of money that he simply throws down the drain of his vanity.

190. WhaleRider - February 6, 2009

elena:
OK I’d like to make the effort to understand each other to the best of our abilities. I also appreciate the continuing dialog as long as we can keep it civil. Anybody who thinks we should do this in private, please hit the scroll button, there’s endless room for all of us here.

I quoted Ouspensky, “Abandon the system” after a passage essentially about identification or holding onto a “hypnotic identity” that separates us from our real selves.

The passage suggests to me that assuming the identity of “student” (and in the FOF cult that is a label that followers assume for a lifetime) carries with it a narrowed conception of one’s self. In other words, the teacher or guru is externalized as the authority figure. Now I firmly believe that most if not all true “spiritual traditions” allow for the “student” to surpass the “teacher”, otherwise IMO the particular spiritual practice that doesn’t is a false teaching leading to more diminished consciousness instead of more inner light.

You heard:
“why would you abandon what you’ve inherited, paid for and finally own? Such as your self?”

I don’t consider the abandonment of the “system” as an abandonment of my self, if that’s what you mean. What I own and paid for is to merge with my inner witness instead of a hypnotic identity and have access to my own inner guru, not a constellation of groupthink terms and ideas that censor my consciousness and keep my mind mired in a self-doubt and self-loathing struggle against my “lower self” or “devil within”. By abandoning the language of FOFspeak, I also let go of the unhealthy indoctrination and hidden limitations on my psyche of which I am not conscious.

An example of that is your statement about vanity.

“Vanity lives in that arena of mutual compliments without actually looking at what is worth the compliment.”

No offense, IMO, that statement smacks of FOFspeak, the language of spiritual bondage. I really don’t understand what you mean here…are you worth complimenting? Is that what you are asking? To me you are. You’ve got balls. I admire that. Maybe you need to hear that in more graphic terms. And to trade compliments with a friend is healthy! Compliments from me anyway seem to make you suspicious as to my motives, and I totally understand where you are coming from knowing your past. You often compare me to Burton, whom you have known a lot longer than you have known me. (Although you said you didn’t hang out much with him.) We both know that I am so not him that you make your comparisions only to insult me or degrade me because that’s what you felt in the FOF and that’s what you feel I am doing to you by offering you feedback you don’t want to hear or in style that upsets you.

The FOF cult’s view of vanity is yet another example of the indoctrination that keeps followers subservient and self-deprecating. The FOF cult promotes masochism. That is what is required to be around such a narcissist like Burton. It is not a stretch of reason to expect that a person with masochistic tendencies is likely to view a person with healthy self-esteem as vain and a threat.and if that behavior defines the group, then people speaking or acting in their own self-interest will be “photographed” as vain to reinforce the masochists.

I’d say that most of the followers with healthy self-esteem who would naturally avoid masochism get fed up and leave, which means eventually the majority of followers who stay are good at being masochistic. That was my impression of people like St*v*n Damb*** .

Here’s a simple exercise for you, Elena, that may illustrate my point.

Would you mind posting a list of the qualities you like about yourself? Could you do that?

191. Mick Danger - February 6, 2009

What is wrong with the Fellowship of Friends?
Robert Burton is so kind, so wise & unselfish.
Why don’t the current members stay and pay even more?
Don’t they value the school?
The salaried personnel could certainly take less and give more.
They don’t, they won’t, they can’t because it’s just a con and a pyramid scheme.

192. elena - February 6, 2009

188. Allow me to clarify that after 19 years in the Fellowship subject I am an ignorant in world affairs and my suppositions are nothing but that. Just seems worth beginning to explore a wider dimension than the little world of the Fellowship.

193. fofblogmoderator - February 6, 2009

187 & 189 are newly moderated

194. nigel harris price - February 6, 2009

(a few posts back) whalerider

You asked me about my relationship to my parents. It took me time to answer, since there are many memories (my mother having died almost 8 years ago and my father still alive at 83 years old) and I feel there are many ways for all of us to approach our relationship to our natural parents and how it was ‘superimposed’ on to FOF members and, ultimately, REB. My dad and mom raised me in the post-austerity-binge era of the late ’50s and were what educationalists call ‘firm but fair’, that is, we received discipline comingled with a great deal of love. Until I was 16 years old, I did not argue with either of them, but thought that what they were doing for me was for my own good. I hated boarding school but enjoyed the education. It was not until I went to art college in 1975 that I began to find a semblance of myself which has stuck with me all these years. I am now a teacher in jewellery ans silverwork and have found relative stability from my bi-polar. Much of the rest you know…..Nigel

“What matter if I live it all once more?
Endure that toil of growing up;
The ignominy of boyhood; the distress
Of boyhood changing into man;
The unfinished man and his pain
Brought face to face with his own clumsiness;”

from (A Dialogue of Self and Soul)

W B Yeats

195. elena - February 6, 2009

Dear Whalerider,

I am not interested in doing your exercises love or writing out my qualities. If you cannot see them for your self there is no point in trying to force them down your throat. I am here, naked still as I’ve been all along. There is nothing I’ve kept from you. In my long period of vulnerability I’ve needed a great deal of reassurance from bloggers and fellowship members because I was emotionally much dependent on them still as the only community I’d adhered to for so many years but that is not the case now, gratefully for all of us. Your recent attack broke that umbilical chord and we are now all much more free of each other. This is a very healthy step.

I am also not the subject here. Vanity thrives in personal feedback and leaves the problems unaddressed. It is not I who need reinforcing it is the subjects we share what can feed us. Life is like sex: if you get bogged down by the body forgetting the spirit inside you end up raping no matter who, like Robert Burton does. Life is like sex: if you disappear in the body of the other, you consume the relationship bringing misery to the people involved. To Dance is not about the dancers but about the music we are sharing.
What we are sharing here is not the Fellowship of Friends and its corruption, it’s life. LIFE. Here we are at last, still Fellowship members (and gratefully others too), who’ve been denied the possibility to communicate for three decades with the opportunity to share and understand what happened to us but much more important than that, to live! To be. To use every resource at our disposition to do the things that were denied us in the Fellowship: life in its own terms!

For a long time I’ve been looking at the dark side of the Fellowship and us with a great deal of anger and my anger is over. It climaxed in our recent encounter and was freed by Nigel’s presentation of Corinthians 13 and that amazing dream, which opened the road for the expression of the love I also have for the Fellowship and us. I’ve had this love all along but it was dependent on the blog’s support and the lack of that support, deepened the anger against the Fellowship and us for quite a while. I suddenly realized how difficult it is for people to look at the dark side of no matter what phenomenon when they are not ready to do so and my insistence on doing so only created fear, neglect, ostracism and rejection. I was being swallowed up by those energies too.

It is as if we’d moved from the dark side of the moon to the light side. It is not that the dark side is not there, it is just that I am no longer trapped by it.

In relation to us two, allow me to affirm that same position. I thank you for having freed me from expectations that I did not deserve. Disappointment is necessary to look at what is, rather than what one would like it to be.

Have a sweet day Whalerider. Swim along and show us your great tail. Sing for us like Whales do to the Universe from one to the other side of the Earth. Life is beautiful! We just need to keep affirming that aspect of it without neglecting to take care of what hurts us. We just need to continue to trust that there are solutions and finding them.

196. elena - February 6, 2009

Correction: To Dance is not about the dancers but about the music they share and the movement. Within the music and the movement the dancers get sculpted but without them, they get torn apart. In our self centeredness we neglect to perceive the music. Fellowship members, who were for decades trained on perceiving only themselves, are particularly hurt by those practices.

197. elena - February 6, 2009

correction: who were for decades trained to perceive only ourselves……

198. elena - February 6, 2009

Put up with,

Thanks for your post.

I do accept many of your conditions of what you like as criticism and I beg you forgive me for not embracing them as you’d like. This is a public forum. I will not stop using the System’s language because I am convinced that it will help many understand what happened to us and I intend to defeat the Fellowship in its own ground. Some of us have been using that language for so long it fits us well.

I understand that you cannot appreciate the language or the length or the subject I deal with and still I am where I can be, in the Public Square. If many leave this forum because of that, let them go and invite your self with them, the Greater Fellowship is open for such restrictions. I value enough what I write to stand up for my right to write it! You might not appreciate it now but I hope you will some time in the future, when we have all gone!

If all leave and Steve wants to shut it down, then let it die. That too is a statement.

199. whalerider - February 6, 2009

elena:
All I asked was for you to list what you liked about yourself, not for a list of what likeable qualities I may or may not see in you. I asked you for some positive self-reflection, and it may be that the cult indoctrination or your past still inhibits you from doing so.

Your experience in the FOF is the subject here, same as mine, same as everyone else’s. Forget about whether others see you naked or not. Can you relfect positively upon yourself? That’s all I asked you to demonstrate.

And nobody’s shoving anything down anyone’s throat. I believe you are referring to our former cult leader. The thought makes me cringe.

“Vanity thrives in personal feedback and leaves the problems unaddressed.”

Actually, growth thrives in personal feedback, too. You cannot see the back of your own head without a mirror.

>>>>><<<<<

So, are we clear on the abandonment of system issue then? Did I answer your question?

BTW, I am not the whale, I am the whalerider.

200. brucelevy - February 6, 2009

195. elena

“I am also not the subject here.”

Actually, for the last couple pages, you have clearly made yourself the subject here.

201. elena - February 6, 2009

I don’t know Whalerider, did you answer it? And I’m sorry I don’t meet your definition of self reflexion. I’m sorry I too disappoint you.

Bruce, that’s been true for almost sixty pages. Strange that the other issues hardly get addressed but as far as I can tell, I try to put out other subjects each day that are never addressed.

187. up with which I will not put

Of course, you always have the option to get together and ban me but then, this would stop being the Public Square.

202. tatyana - February 6, 2009

It is not a Public Square. It is Elena’s square now.

203. elena - February 6, 2009

Tatyana,

Thank you for your post.

I don’t stop anyone from writing. What makes you think that!

204. elena - February 6, 2009

Tatyana,

I guess you did not accept my apologies.

I can apologize but I can’t force you to accept it.

205. elena - February 6, 2009

And then, it’s a bit weird isn’t it? I wrote a post yesterday that had little to do with me, Whalerider writes to me, am I expected not to answer him? or others who do?

This does not mean that I am not acknowledging that I’ve been writing compulsively for a long time. I have. That was my state. But now that that has changed a little at least in the past few days, you are charging me for it.

As they say, it’s bad if it’s good and it’s bad if it’s bad but this is the Public Square and we can all be here.

206. We Were There - February 6, 2009

A few days ago I posted the opinion that the principle goal and value of the blog is to help current members.

Almost immediately current Fellowship member (‘Preying Mantra’ – gotta wonder about that name!) surfaced to lash out

‘… it is like the blind leading the blind reading the petty stuff you fill your lives with. Just stick to repeating the same stuff about how terrible the school is and don’t set yourselves us as examples of moving on. And, why don’t some of you use your sex energy in the way biological life intended, it might make a lot of your psuedo-psyco-babble unnecessary.’

Mr. Mantra clearly was not pleased that attention had been (briefly) shifted back to the plight of those who may be considering leaving the Fellowship but have not done so yet –

Elena and Whalerider, sharing your FOF experiences here has had a profound impact. Arguing with each other has a different impact, far less profound…

207. elena - February 6, 2009

Yes We Were There, I completely agree. Have you noticed we are not arguing today?

208. tatyana - February 6, 2009

Hello, Elena. I was not watchiing the blog until today. I haven’t read any of your messages. I am doing it right now and it will take me a long time.
So, be patient. I will skip the “text #14” though if you don’t mind…

209. tatyana - February 6, 2009

The video about the man with no limbs is very powerful. Thank you.

210. elena - February 6, 2009

Tatyana,

You don’t have to read anything I write but if you want to read what is worth my effort read the texts, especially the last one and leave everything else. It is the best thing I’ve written here. I am extremely proud of having understood that and hope it helps you to understand the Fellowship and cults too.

I realize this is for many not a place for such length or deepness but don’t get angry with me because of that, it might eventually be of use for other cult members.

211. elena - February 6, 2009

Tatyana,

That was a gift from someone else that I thought worth repeating.

212. tatyana - February 6, 2009

All right I will read it. Did you write it yourself?

213. elena - February 6, 2009

If you haven’t read any of the texts, it is a selection from the book the Rape of the Mind by Merlow. He is amazing. Look at it for yourself. I usually select something he wrote on mind control environments such as prisoner camps but then I try to apply it to Cults and how it works. At first, two years ago, I thought our gold alchemy little brothel couldn’t compare realistically to such places but take a look and you’ll see how horrifying close it is with the only difference that the phenomenon happens somewhat voluntarily in cults, at least initially while it is forced upon the prisoners in concentration camps.

214. tatyana - February 7, 2009

Since I was a little girl I could not handle the subject of concentration camps. I fainted in class where they showed us pictures. And even now reading this makes me nauseous.

“But in the frightening, lonely situaitons in which the victims of menticidal terror find themselves — situations which have a nightmare quality, which are crammed with dangers so tremendous they cannot be grasped or understood because there is nobody to explain or reassure — the wish to collapse, to let go, to be not there, becomes almost irresistable. This experience was reported by many concentration-camp victims…”

Do you really see a similarity between “situations which have a nightmare quality, which are crammed with dangers so tremendous they cannot be grasped or understood” and FOF?

I think it is an exaggeration to say the least.

215. elena - February 7, 2009

Thank you Tatyana, did you read the whole post?

But of course, you don’t have to.

216. ton - February 7, 2009

circa 187, up with… etc,
ya i agree with your list. as for venting, i think it can be a good thing, and even mildly amusing to onlookers (‘morbid fascination’ is another issue). imo, non-injurious venting is healthy, although only to a point…. where that point is may be up to the readers here to indicate, or not…. thanks for an indication.

217. elena - February 7, 2009

Tatyana,

Have you ever wondered why over three thousand people in just five or six cults, have committed suicide?

Think of people like or dear gardener. What wouldn’t she do for Robert? or when the end comes?

There a few like that but a lot of them who already show complete oblivion in meetings.

218. elena - February 7, 2009

Think of people like our dear…

219. More history needed? - February 7, 2009

Somebody send me this story from an ex student, here to share.

What about signing the petition?

http://www.petitiononline.com/djindjin/petition.html

Maybe this story can be added to the petition?

“And it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not be false to any man.”

Due to a stomach virus of RB my first trip with him was cancelled at the last minute while I was waiting outside his house to leave. He called me at this room and said “You must have very powerful angels protecting you. We will do the trip another time.” I could not understand at the time, but looking back I did and it surprised me that he was perfectly conscious of his evil-doing, the part of a devil or something.

Most of the ‘old students’ I have talked to sort of closed their eyes, or buffered it in some way like ‘They are adults and responsible of their acts’, or ‘I also find it difficult to understand but I cannot judge and my verifications in the school are very strong so I put all this on hold’. It is still the same attitude that is partly responsible for lack of signatures of the petition. I think very few realised the ‘evilness’ in his actions like he did, and if they did they would not doubt signing the petition.

“And it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not be false to any man.”

http://www.petitiononline.com/djindjin/petition.html

220. tatyana - February 7, 2009

I watched the video about James Jones where 900 people committed suicide. They were forced or killed if did not cooperate.

I don’t think it is going to happen within FOF. They promote non-violence.
People who sacrifice their careers, bodies and families do it because of adoration of Robert. There are plenty of issues but I don’t think the violence is an issue here.

221. elena - February 7, 2009

You didn’t read the whole post or any of them but thank you any way for trying! You paint beautifully!

222. elena - February 7, 2009

I suppose you don’t think rape is violent or the treatment of women or old people, or getting your daughter raped by one of Robert’s deranged boys who thinks he’ll get away with it anyway because he is in the “inner circle”

I realize it takes a long time to connect what really happened to us.

I’m very glad you are here.

223. tatyana - February 7, 2009

I did read the whole post. Thank you for a compliment.

224. elena - February 7, 2009

Thank you for reading. So if you did read it, may I ask, what do you find that doesn’t apply to the Fellowship? Since I am obviously so convinced it would help me a great deal to reconsider if it’s way off the mark.

225. tatyana - February 7, 2009

This: “situations which have a nightmare quality, which are crammed with dangers so tremendous they cannot be grasped or understood”

In FOF nobodies kills anybody. Nobody beats anybody. There is no violence in FOF.

226. elena - February 7, 2009

Thank you for your opinion Tatyana. I completely agree with you. In fact there is no need for anyone to hit or force anyone else to do anything because people are willing to do things to themselves and each other.

People are willing to bring boys from Russia so that they serve Robert sexually. I understand you’ve confirmed that. Women are willing to be treated like four class citizens. Men are willing to be treated like second hand citizens, become perfectly feminine and allow for Robert to use them sexually for the whole of a lifetime.

What I’ve been trying to understand is why members allow for all those things although they are not being physically forced and it seems to make sense with the rest of the ideas presented in that post that if you read you could tell me why it doesn’t make sense to you.

Let me know if you wish us to stop for today.

227. ton - February 7, 2009

tatyana,
granted, the ‘gulag’ or Dachau the FOF is not, there’s no comparison.

but a type of ‘spiritual rape’ IS perpetrated and fostered by the fof…

228. fofblogmoderator - February 7, 2009

219 is newly moderated

229. ton - February 7, 2009

for further evidence that “the system” is a trap…. even for so-called
‘ex-members’ — click on this:

http://thefellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/message/view/home/5725962

230. ton - February 7, 2009

231. tatyana - February 7, 2009

“People are willing to bring boys from Russia so that they serve Robert sexually.”

I am not sure this is accurate. Who are the people you are talking about?
Boys from Russia come to Apollo not to serve Robert sexually, they come to discover magic, mystery, the Gods and their own Soul. Whatever comes as a payment nobody knows.Boys are willing to do th payment for some odd reason. It is a little trickier than you put it. There is something big and sick, but it has a different nature than what we know of Nazis. May be the whole point is to find what it is.

232. Panorea - February 7, 2009

A few days ago a very nice man who has been a member of the Fellowship for longer than 30 years said that he often has his doubts about the Fellowship but he stays for “himself”. He was at Oregon House only once and has not seen Robert Burton for years. He stays not because of the “Teacher” but because of the “energy” he experiences during meetings, the refinement during dinners and the polite company.

There are many fine people like him in the Fellowship. Not only have they no idea of the distorted nature of their leader, they simply do not want to know what has been going on all these years.

They do not make the connection between them paying their monthly donations and the abuse game going on in the headquarters in California.

I know they do not read the blog.

They will not join the Greater Fellowship. The are euphoric in their dreams. They do not want to see that they are selling their soul and confuse their inner compass.

They won’t even try to take a break after all these years. They are too old for changes. They just to go to a meeting and one or two events. They just pay and they have a chair waiting for them. They do not need to bother about meeting their real soul mates and enjoy life’s fruits. They are persuaded that life and presence can only be found in a restricted environment. Friendship is only possible under conditions.

They are not enough in their own experiences of emptiness and joy. They need something more “special” to make them complete.

In the meantime, life just goes on.

233. elena - February 7, 2009

231 Tatyana

I wonder if you’ve read the accounts here about how there are members who have the job to actually find boys for Robert in centers who they then help to get visas, money, etc. so that they go to Isis to serve Robert. Or those who are asked to take pictures of them selves and the size of their penises so that Robert can see them. (I know it sounds wilder than I thought it was)

I also wonder if when you read the account of what the experience with Robert is like by those men who have had to submit to it, rings to it being “voluntary” and not a trap in which, once they’ve accepted many of the favors, they just cannot step back and say no. Many innocently thought Robert was just going to talk with them when he actually assaulted them.

“Whatever comes as a payment nobody knows.Boys are willing to do the payment for some odd reason. It is a little trickier than you put it. There is something big and sick, but it has a different nature than what we know of Nazis. May be the whole point is to find what it is.”

It is those odd reasons Tatyana, what I’ve been working on. You’ve read only one of the Texts without deeply considering the presentation. It is normal. No one wishes to accept that the gold alchemy little brothel in which we lived and believed for so long, is as criminal as it is but you can’t explain it by saying simply that people are stupid and let others take advantage of them willingly.

If you read many of the authors that have written about cults, you will find that the similarity to other mind control environments is widely accepted. What I don’t know if it has already been explored, is a theory on why and how people actually commit suicide so abundantly in cults. Did you not get depressed in the Fellowship? I would appreciate it if you could at least give me the benefit of the doubt and consider what I am saying before opposing it. I don’t just write here to occupy space although that is how you seem to perceive it. You haven’t yet, dear Tatyana, taken one major argument that I’ve presented and considered it deeply, you’ve been mostly simply rejecting the main idea which is that in brain control environments people turn against them selves under pressure of the cult. I did not invent this, it is already much studied. I realize you also joined the blog not too long ago but getting here has not been easy, we’ve been working on it for a long time and a lot of the understandings come from that work. If you are willing to chew with a little patience, your considerations about the Fellowship might vary.

Thank you for the rich dialogue.

234. Yesri Baba - February 7, 2009
235. elena - February 7, 2009

The FOFblogmoderator, Steve, has written to me offering me the position of moderator. He has been doing it for six months and says he is ready to step out. Is there anyone else here who would like to take that job? I am not particularly proficient in computer work but if there is no one else willing I will learn how to do it. I am also not interested in the position as a power position but if I have to take it, no one will be banned unless they are repeatedly abusive after being warned three times and five other voluntary people must agree to the banning if it ever happens.
Whalerider, Ton, Lauralupe, More history Needed and Old Fish in the Sea, would you be willing to be one of those five people? Or Bruce, Yesri Baba, Tatyana and anybody else?

Thank you Steve for the work you’ve been doing all this time, I could not have asked for anyone more solid.

236. nigel harris price - February 7, 2009

235 elena

I think you would make a great moderator as you allow for a great deal of emotional and intellectual scope on the blog. If you need a one-of-five volunteer, I put myself up for it, since I contribute almost daily…..Nigel.

237. Ellen - February 7, 2009

234, Yesri Baba,

Great link, thanks for that.
Here is the table of contents page.
http://www.strippingthegurus.com/index.html#stgtoc

I suggest that all take a look of this online book, Stripping the Gurus.
Although it reads a bit like a gossip column, the point is rather clear.
These are human beings who may have experienced the realization of enlightenment in various ways and with various levels of impurity/purity. It does make you wonder what all the fuss is about, doesn’t it?

*************

For copyright purposes, what follows are translated excerpts from ‘InZicht’ (Insight) Magazine (Vol. 7, Number 3, September 2005) What is enlightenment? by Douwe Tiemersma.

What is enlightenment?
Is there something to say about enlightenment? Only in a negative sense. Enlightenment is the experience as well as the reality of the falling away of all separations. With what is called enlightenment, separations disappear and with them the conflicts and the endless running in circles. Above all it has to do with the disappearance of the division between ‘myself’ and everything that is experienced as not my own: the other, the others, the world, and the cosmos. This dual structure is fundamentally accepted in human existence – notice the grammar of such sentences as ‘I see that’ – but this duality now dissolves. With this melting-together everything which was at first considered as myself becomes a part of the larger whole, while everything in that whole takes on an aspect of self-being. Then self-being and other-being are not different any more. There is no separation any more in form, quality, and location for the self-being.

Is it a sudden event? Are there different stages of enlightenment?
The ‘I’-self has many aspects or levels. The realization of the highest self, doesn’t necessarily need to indicate that the self-being is non-dual in all aspects. The opening is certainly definitive, but doesn’t always directly take place on all levels. Just think of the various chakra-energies of many people who appear or appeared to be illuminated, which are or were not always pure. Just think of the subtle, rarefied levels, on which still limiting tendencies or trends (vâsana’s) may operate and their effects may yet be expressed on the coarser levels in feelings and actions. Realization then has different possibilities. There are differences in ‘people’ who are defined as enlightened. These differences exist not only in character, which continues more or less as long as life does, but in the degree to which the various levels or aspects have been purified, that is, the extent to which non-duality has become a reality in all areas, in all aspects. If that is so completely and definitively, it can be said to be a true enlightenment.

Is alleged enlightenment distinguishable from genuine?
Not for someone who himself has no knowledge of enlightenment. The only thing you can do is to question yourself as earnestly and as deeply as possible. Then you’re already well on the way in the direction of enlightenment. Then you will be able to clearly see in a maximum way how open the other really is. There is one criterion that can be used to disqualify so-called ‘enlightenment’: the presence of selfishness. Selfishness and enlightenment by definition exclude each other. If a teacher shows themselves to have selfish tendencies, in whatever sense, you must take your leave. Maybe there is something to learn from him or her, but not something that has to do with enlightenment.

238. Mick Danger - February 7, 2009

RE: 187/up with
34.6% – When the scrolling gets tough…..

239. elena - February 7, 2009

Nigel hon, you’re priceless, thank you but it would force me to be a hundred times more delicate, I would be happy if someone else wishes to go for it even though I am delighted being a hundred times more delicate!
Once one has recovered a sense of one’s self it is not difficult to not hurt others.

Have a great day, thanks Ellen and Mick for your posts.

I would also ask Steve if he would like to take a week before taking a final decision or letting me or anybody else do it for just a month or two while he rests. It does seem healthy to move around that load.

240. fofblogmoderator - February 7, 2009

For the time being, I will remain at my post as page turner. Sorry for any mixed messages.

241. tatyana - February 7, 2009

I will start answering the question if I was depressed in FOF. I was. But not because I knew of Robert sex life or preparing of his sex slaves delivery. This was never something I was thinking about daily. I was in Moscow center when we were asked to bring pictures so the teacher can know every one’s face. The same exact request we had at my job last week – the human resources manager wanted to have pictures of all employees on file. It makes one’s feel that the a person in charge actually makes an effort to have an individual approach to his people. Imagine if Obama would ask every citizen to send him a picture, so he knows who are his people! But if the boss wants to have pictures on file to choose which one he wants to harass sexually or have for breakfast – we won’t know about that. Nobody announced at the meeting that in addition to the pictures we must bring a written down information about the penis size… or better yet a picture of it.
People who had job to help with visas did it not because they were evil, but because they believed that it was in the best interest of the student – to be in the heart of the school and esoteric teaching.

OK, back to why I was depressed. I had a lot of fear. I had a fear of the future because of the predictions. I had fear of “life” because of the “suggestions” at the meetings and unfamiliar culture. I also had a lot of fear of the Gods which either were going to punish me for disobedience in a harsh way, or give me “presents” in the form of suffering. The Gods were horrifying, not like Jesus Christ/Santa Claus who can make you wishes come thru if you talk to him in a right way. So, with this “set up”, I did not have any direction to go, except trying to be present – and that seemed to be the ultimate answer anyway. Except in order to be a good student you need money regardless of how present you are. That was a bummer. But it was my subjective situation. If I did not have small children, wasn’t a foreigner, had money etc. I maybe would not be depressed. Or at least not so depressed. There are a lot of people who have a lot of money and enjoy their life style amongst rose gardens, lakes, fountains, concerts, trips etc. I don’t think they are depressed.

“…but you can’t explain it by saying simply that people are stupid and let others take advantage of them willingly.”

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. But I don’t think that people are stupid. I think if there is anyone to blame it is RB, not the people. And RB is still a mystery to me in terms of what is behind all these evil actions – greed, hassnamuss nature, addiction or mental/chemical disorder?

242. elena - February 7, 2009

Thanks Tatyana, that’s a great post. You’re honest and clear. You’re transparent. It is always a pleasure to see that transparency here.

I am not too well to write long today and there is nothing I would argue about from what you’ve written. Just that I would appreciate your mentioning my name when you do write to me. If you want Elena and all so that we are even clearer that no matter who we’re writing for it is to all. Just that when you leave out my name and you’re actually writing to me, it seems less polite and since I do happen to have this ostracism symptom it reassures me that you are not trying to avoid me. It’s wonderful to be able to disagree with all respect. Then we can solve the problem even continuing to disagree, if there happens to be a solution.

Steve, you made my day with those news. Thank you for holding out.

243. tatyana - February 7, 2009

OK, Elena.

244. Bares Reposting - February 7, 2009

A Hundred Thousand Angels – May 3, 2008

C us here:

Never without you.

Love,
A Hundred Thousand Angels

245. WhaleRider - February 7, 2009

From Wolinsky (1991)

“The one element all the different trance identities have in common is the you behind them. There is always a “larger self” behind any kind of creation, be it physical, emotional, psychological, or spiritual. It is very easy to lose track of this awareness when caught up in an identity (i.e. “student”). Typically, we believe that what we are experiencing defines who we are, when in fact we remain senior to and greater than whatever experience we are having. Initially, the experience of identity formation is a creative process whereby you create the trance and identity you decide will handle the upcoming situation. Again, unfortunately the identities then become an automatic process as they are called upon repeatedly. The task for the therapist is to de-hypnotize the client out of the identity so that the self can be experienced as the creative source.”

246. tatyana - February 8, 2009
247. peter - February 8, 2009

My time in the Fellowship of Friend was also quite nice and civil. But that was not the point. I joint because I want to know the truth.

And everybody there was/is in deep illusions including that nasty piece of work called ‘The Teacher’.

Thank you God for letting me leave before it was to late.

After leaving I found that the best way to heal from Fellowship of Friend indoctrination was to make a slow and careful study of Dr. Stephen R. Covey’s book ‘the seven habits of highly effective people’.

Great enlightening books I found in ‘the hidden teaching beyond Yoga’ from Paul Brunton an ‘I am That’ from Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj.

Looking back I see the Fellowship of Friends at its best as an kindergarden for nice people with little real understanding who need a father figure and at its worst as something that misuses that what is best in people.

I also still have these dreams at night about the fof, and I experience again all the small minded attitudes and all the difficult things these people invent for themselves to feel special and in that way locked out for themselves all possibility too experience the oneness of all creation.

***
O Fool, try to carry thyself upon thy own shoulders! O beggar, to come beg at thy own door!
Leave all thy burdens on his hands who can bear all, and never look behind in regret.
Thy desire at once puts out the light from the lamp it touches with its breath. It is unholy – take not thy gifts through its unclean hands. Accept only what is offered by sacred love.
Gitanjali by Rabindranath Tagore

248. elena - February 8, 2009

Dear Tatyana,

There is no argument between our selves. If we can hold each other’s self in perspective we can still deal with each other’s wounds without hurting our selves. Allow me to address some areas of the post you submitted yesterday.

In relation to the boys and pictures in the Fellowship, you are right: those taking and asking for the pictures did not tell us that they would be previously selected by somebody else and only young pretty boys would be presented to Robert so that he could take a pick, plan a trip, and put them in his sack. There are members doing this for Robert. Then there are those who already have the role of introducing them to homosexual practices by going to the wine cellar dinners and making it feel acceptable and desirable. All these are aspects of the apparently subtle manipulation of the boys so that they are immediately immersed in a setting in which giving them selves up for the Conscious Being, so considered by two thousand members, is not only perfectly acceptable, it is perfectly desirable. There are already five or six other boys doing it, who are they to say no to it? It is what not only the Fellowship as a Conscious School wants from them, it is what they should want from and for themselves. It is a perfect set up that a young man or woman, wishing to be accepted by the community he or she just joined and swallowed totally the idea that the Fellowship and Robert are THE SOLUTION to the world and his or her self, would trip over psychologically without a chance of realizing how deeply they are falling until they are crawling without hope.

As you said before, the boys did not go to Isis to dress in little pink dresses for a narcissistic sociopath; they went to “evolve”: to work in and for a School of Consciousness. We all did.

Girard and all the enablers who help Robert set this pantomime up, are not in themselves evil, as you say, evil is in them selves, which is very different. No one is consciously evil which is why consciousness is beyond evil. Yet the fact that we are not conscious of evil within us, does not mean that we are not being evil, that is, that we are not doing things that are harming others.

When we look at something like this, it is very helpful to understand that no one is in them selves evil and rather to try to discover how evil manipulated us all. Nothing makes it easier to indulge in evil than seeing others indulging in it. Nothing was more powerful in the Fellowship than the fact that so many people went along with Robert “whole hog, including the postage” and Girard at the head of it. How could we not be fooled by a man who, as we were told, had given up a career as a genius mathematician, a programmer when computers were still the size of a room; a man who’d given up his life, his family, him self to serve Robert and the Fellowship? The man we could see with our own eyes, without pretensions on money or fame and an absolute commitment to the cause? When we look at each other, it is wonderful to look well because things such as these are real. Girard has those qualities and many more. Like the rest of us, it is not that there weren’t multiple qualities, it is what they were being used for where the problem lies. Precisely because he and every one else had these qualities, we were deceived into thinking that what they were standing for was a legitimate cause. We were “inspired” by them. It’s in the “realm of inspiration” where we can find the causes of our voluntary submission to the Fellowship: In the realm of love. If we can recognize and acknowledge the love, we have no problem in handling the consequences of that love. We can, after handling what was not lovable, forgive our selves.

In an individual case, a man might forgive him self for the crimes he has committed and yet that does not mean that he shouldn’t go to therapy and submit his or herself to being treated by people who can help him. In a social context, a community that is systematically harming its members and those connected to them needs to be stopped, precisely because the people don’t know they are harming others. What ever they are doing has so turned them against reality, that they no longer perceive evil acts as damaging to others. They have constructed such an imaginary reality, that evil acts are not only not evil, but divine. Isn’t precisely that what Robert tells the boys? You are going to be with an Angel? A goddess in a man’s body? And who but Girard him self and the rest of the enablers stand like solidified rock on the premise that Robert Burton is the one and only conscious being who they serve with absolute commitment?

When we compare the Fellowship with fascist practices, the comparison is not related to the actual events in either one but the principles on which they both develop. The study of such phenomenon is subtle but not any less worthy of attention because of it.

This is already long, I’ll address other aspects of your post later. Thank you for sharing and listening.

249. dragon - February 8, 2009

Even if the comparability of the FOF institution and historic events (the genocide (and the slaughter) against jews, Roma people, homosexuals, civilians in Russia, Poland, the Netherlands, France etc.) is a more than delicate matter, I’ll try to point it out.

The Holocaust/ the Shoa was one of the greatest terrifying events in the twentieth century.
It was so terrifying because of its perfect killing mechanism. The industrialization of killing (jews, Roma people, homosexuals, mentally ill persons /“euthanasia” etc.) was a fact beyond the imagination of the human mind. The “ability” to organize such a perfect killing mechanism is for me one of the most frightening aspects in German history.

In the end there was no escape for the victims and for the German people who faced the cruel truth.

Perhaps only one aspect of comparability is given with the FOF:

It is an institution that will lead (in some cases) to a personal “camp” in the heads of its students. The guardians of this camp are not Nazis. The students itself are their own guardians and that is the acquittal for REB.

He tells the truth concerning his evil doing (To the boy : You must have strong angels…/REB had diarrhoea).

REB is doing evil in front of his members/students and it seems to be an “agreement”?

No death, no blood, no cruelty in front of his students. It is a black kingdom of evil thoughts with a rigid hierarchy (in the FOF “money based”, is money spiritual?) that is a common ground with Nazism.

But the cruelty is not appearing on the wall, it exists in the thoughts of some FOF members and they are killing their souls.

Even if they (some people) leave the FOF they will go on to obey REB’s every word in a very special way. This is his base.

The continuum of the possibility to use and to perfect the art of spiritual seduction in front of his community!

To cut the connection with the “charismatic”, to accept the temptation in our hearts/souls and to take responsibility for ourselves, is the only way out of this “camp”.

250. elena - February 8, 2009

To Steve and all,

I think Steve that it is important for the participants here to know the complete story of why I was asked by the fofblogmoderator to moderate this site.

Two days ago, I was asked to leave the blog for a week as a personal favour to Steve who felt it was unbalanced and I responded asking him why and stating that I took that as if he were banning me and that if he banned me for even a week I would not come back. He did not give me any explanations but wrote to me asking me if I would take over the moderation because he’d already been doing it for six months. I submitted that here.

I will never again allow anyone or any institution to take away my freedom to speak for even a minute and continue to participate in that forum after that. This site is not important because of the site but because of what is being said here. If I am banned I will open a personal page under my own name and continue to expose the Fellowship of Friends Cult in the light of The Rape of the Mind to which it is directly connected.

I take this action by Steve as a reasonable mistake in a position of responsibility after the crisis with Whalerider. It is never the less not enough of an excuse for my banning given the fact that it was quickly solved. I do not deny that I was abusive to Giorgio and Tatyana who were sincerely kind to me in a moment in which I could not even take kindness and I have asked for their forgiveness. If what you wish here is a forum without conflict, please do ban me because I am not trying to avoid conflict, I am trying to avoid abuse.

I continue to believe that the fofblogmoderator, Steve, has done an impeccable job keeping a low profile and participating as an anonymous figure if that is how he choses to be here. I have no problem with that although I would equally welcome him to participate under his own name.

I am sincerely grateful that he has decided not to step out of the moderation and he can count on my support for almost anything except the banning of people unless they are repeatedly abusive. Until we understand that we cannot ask people to renounce to their rights and freedoms under no matter what excuse, we will not have reached a civilized culture. Talking has consequences and we must be able to bear them without “disappearing” each other. We must be able to move beyond our likes and dislikes into an objective realm of participation in which the rights of every individual are protected.

I continue to thank you all for your presence here. It is with love that I offer you my time and effort and with love that I take yours. To you Steve, I am particularly indebted for your willingness to do the hard work.

251. nigel harris price - February 8, 2009

250 elena

I think what Steve meant by ‘unbalanced’ was that too many posts were turning into a ‘stairhead brawl’ between posters and seemed to be contentions between individuals rather than contributions to the blogsite. Here, again, Elena, I have to be Martial and ask you quite candidly – “How many of your interactions on this page 64 were motivated and sustained by your lunatic feature?” I am ready for any kind of answer…..Nigel.

252. Vena - February 8, 2009

I think Steve had a point. I suspect many people have stopped posting as well as reading because the blog is dominated by Elena. It has become her forum. I hope she will not be offended by this observation. I also want to say that I know she needs healing and to speak her mind and she has contributed much of value but for someone coming to this site for the first time it looks like one person’s protracted, angry diatribe.

253. Ellen - February 8, 2009

252, Vena
Thanks. Ditto. Monopolizing the public square turns the square into something less public: basically, a filibuster area to be avoided. Forcing silence, though is worse.

254. Roosje - February 8, 2009

246. tatyana – February 8, 2009
http://video.google.ca/googleplayer.swf?docid=723916954426

Tatyana, thank you! This is a very profound message
The power of ONE…. explained in a nut shell.

255. elena - February 8, 2009

I’ve said what I have to say. If you think you need to ban me please go ahead and do so.

Vena, the blog has been dominated by me for almost two years. For the first time I was openly abusive, that is, abusive without reason, a few days ago. If you people wish to go ahead and ban me because of that you can do so but the real reason that you are banning me is not that but the fact that I am exposing us and the Fellowship in such a deep way that it is difficult for you to bear that amount of exposure just as the majority here are not willing to stand out in front of the Fellowship gate and scream to the world that people are being systematically raped inside. My exposure is no longer directed only at the Fellowship but at cults in general. I am not interested in hurting anyone personally, I do not look for people to attack them but I defend myself when I am attacked. Show me where that is not the case beside the recent incident with Giorgio and Tatyana. I am very clearly working on the final demise of an institution that did not only hurt us all severely but continues to function as if it were not doing anything harmful because those of us who know that it is, are not willing to confront it with enough strength.

Your banning me here will not be any different to the Fellowship asking people to leave because it does not like what they have to say.

In reference to someone coming here for the first time, they are welcome and Giorgio’s case, for which I could not apologize more is only one. I have not insulted any other newcomer. My diatribe is not nearly as angry today as it was two years ago in which I literally threw up against the Fellowship for almost a year. You might not grant me that and ban me still but you will be acknowledging only what is convenient to you so that you can justify your action, just like the Fellowship. That is you and all others here.

I am not as offended by your observation Vena as when you wrote here that since I was already much considered a lunatic by the Fellowship or something on that note about a year and a half ago, my writing here was not helpful. Since you have had that attitude towards me, it does not surprise me that you appear only to give angles like this one and never to support openly where you think I have made contributions of “much value”, as you call them.

Nigel love, that is very offensive, I will post for you the only important post that I have written in two years and I will ask you to show me where the lunatic is in it so that if you see nothing but lunatic, you can try to look a little deeper. Never allow yourself to be labeled with such a word nor label anyone else with it love. That is the abuse you’ve suffered and you are now practicing. Take it off yourself so that you don’t continue ruining your life accepting it as a fact.

The following text is chilling no matter how you look at it and it’s closely related to life in the Fellowship of Friends.

Text 16

THE RAPE OF THE MIND: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide, and Brainwashing, by Joost A. M. Meerloo, M.D.
Continuation of Section: The Law of Survival Versus the Law of Loyalty

The ritual of self-accusation and breast-beating and unconditional surrender to the rules of the elders is part of age-old religious rites. It was based on a more or less unconscious belief in a supreme and omnipotent power. This power may be the monolithic party state or a mysterious deity. It follows the old inner device of “Credo quia absurdum” (“I believe because it is absurd”), of faithful submission to a super-world stronger than the reality which confronts our senses.

Why the totalitarian and orthodox dogmatic ideology sticks to such a rigid attitude, with prohibition of investigation of basic premises, is a complicated psychological question. Somewhere the reason is related to the fear of change, the fear of the risk of change of habits, the fear of freedom, which may be psychologically related to the fear of the finality of death.

The denial of human freedom and equality lifts the authoritarian man beyond his mortal fellows. His temporary power and omnipotence give him the illusion of eternity. In his totalitarianism he denies death and ephemeral existence and borrows power from the future. He has to invent and formulate a final Truth and protective dogma to justify his battle against mortality and temporariness. From then on, the new fundamental certainty must be hammered into the minds of adepts and slaves.

What happens inside the human psyche under severe circumstances of mental and physical attack is clarified for us in the studies of the general mental defenses available to man; earlier, I myself tried in several publications to analyze the various ways people defend themselves against fear and pressure.

In the last phases of brainwashing and menticide, the self-humiliating submission of the victims serves as an inner defensive device annihilating the prosecuting inquisitor in a magic way. The more they accuse themselves, the less logical reason there is for HIS existence. Giving in and being even more cruel toward oneself makes the inquisitor and judge, as it were, impotent and shows the futility of the accusing regime.

We may say that brainwashing and menticide provoke the same inner defensive mechanism that we observe in melancholic patients. Through their mental selfbeatings, they try to get rid of fear and to avoid a more deeply seated guilt. They punish themselves in advance in order to overcome the idea of final punishment for some hidden, unknown, and worse crime. The victim of menticide conquers his tormentor by becoming even more cruel toward himself than the inquisitor. In this passive way, he annihilates his enemy.

Now we can look at it in more detail.

Why the totalitarian and orthodox dogmatic ideology sticks to such a rigid attitude, with prohibition of investigation of basic premises, is a complicated psychological question. Somewhere the reason is related to the fear of change, the fear of the risk of change of habits, the fear of freedom, which may be psychologically related to the fear of the finality of death.

______In the search for wholesomeness or unity man must be able to let go of both his self and the world. This is very frightening. It involves letting go of the mind and every rope with which the mind connects to the world. It involves walking on the tight-rope on which you yourself are the rope. It implies trust in your ability to be. Trust, is the most powerful positive emotion in the process of becoming one’s self.
In a Cult in which the guru does not allow the members to develop trust in them selves and instead gradually becomes the repository of that energy, he literally and for all practical purposes replaces the “self” of the member. In giving the guru full authority to overtake his will, the member is rendered helpless.
The practice of trusting a guru in a particular ritual or in personal and direct contact with him in the way of the monk or the yogi may be a necessary aspect of that practice but in the Fourth Way, the adept is meant to develop his own self and not a pathological dependence to the guru. Gurus such as Robert Burton take advantage of the member’s ignorant knowledge in relation to how the Fourth Way is supposed to work, relying on the texts and traditional common knowledge on the need to surrender to the Teacher. Of course, if the members themselves were faithful to the System’s idea that the Fourth Way must continue to happen in life, they would not succumb so easily to such corrupted practices of the System.
Gurdjieff and Ouspensky might not have been the greatest teachers but nowhere do we find that they actually developed a cult. They worked with individual members on a one on one relationship more than in a generalized set of ideas for a mass of “undifferentiated members” with whom they never spoke.
In replacing his own self by idolatry for the guru, it is interesting to observe that in the Fellowship of Friends, rather than working with the freedom of life and its law of accident, which the adept must overcome by changes in his own level of being, the members gradually developed a psychopathic ritual of repeating the same conditioned activity over and over again. As they lose the ability to be present to their own lives, they become increasingly dependent on the Guru’s direction and precise control on what they work on. The “beautifying of Apollo”, the work on “The Ark” replaced the freedom of working with their own destiny and its obstacles. The compulsive physical construction of the Cult’s property (winery, academy, town hall, vineyard and lodge) became the compulsive useless and circular effort in which Robert could change everything round and round no matter how many times without ever developing anything because the more time and effort they invested in it, the more lifeless it became. LIFELESS: an activity repeated mechanically: dinners, winery, concerts, meetings: all demanding the strenuous work of members under strict control of Robert for the whole and only sake of divinizing and enthroning the queen in a man’s body, as the one and only conscious being on planet earth.
For the members who join as regular human beings, in an exalted state of “having found a real School”, the devotion with which they offer themselves, their essence, is quickly channelled into a long corridor of self denial which is perceived by the member as a necessary effort for his evolution. The renunciation to life is taken up literally in the cult without addressing the practice of non-identification present in the System, which has nothing to do with externally separating from regular life. Instead of developing an increasingly deep trust in his ability to act in life, the member gradually surrenders to the much more comfortable position of not having to decide anything and relying on the Guru’s direction in every aspect of his or her life. Comfortable for his willingness to sacrifice but extremely uncomfortable for his self affirmation. The activities within the cult, which gradually become more and more demanding of time and energy, finally replace the whole of what he knew as “his life”.
The Rape of the Mind: The denial of human freedom and equality lifts the authoritarian man beyond his mortal fellows. His temporary power and omnipotence give him the illusion of eternity. In his totalitarianism he denies death and ephemeral existence and borrows power from the future. He has to invent and formulate a final Truth and protective dogma to justify his battle against mortality and temporariness. From then on, the new fundamental certainty must be hammered into the minds of adepts and slaves.
_______The power of this phenomenon is crucial to the understanding of why the Cult works.
Human Freedom
Equality
Omnipotence
Power
Eternity
Truth
No death
Fundamental Certainty
All these are characteristic of Unity and the wholesomeness that every individual is seeking to achieve consciously or unconsciously.
In “dressing” him self with these qualities, the guru incarnates what the adepts are yearning for. In giving up “trust in their own self”, they surrender the possibility of developing themselves for the development of the guru’s vision. They become his voluntary slaves: “The victim of menticide conquers his tormentor by becoming even more cruel toward himself than the inquisitor.” The actual suicide is only the external expression of a slow process of self-destruction that has been taking place for many years in the lifelessness of the Cult.

256. Mick Danger - February 8, 2009

Scrolling Through the Blog or They can’t All be Gems
The Analogy of the Parrot
Imagine a parrot which was free from birth. It could fly and perch on any tree and eat any fruit it liked. It would eat in one place and fly off to the river in another village for a drink of water. Being born free, it had no idea of what freedom and liberty were. And so it would continuously cry out, “What is freedom? Make me free.” A philosopher, on hearing its cry, said, “Brother, you are free.” But the parrot could not enjoy the experience of its freedom. So the philosopher then said, “All right, I will show you what is freedom. First come into my hand and surrender to me.” The parrot was wise, and obeying the philosopher, went and perched on his hand. The philosopher then took the parrot and shut it up in a cage. Now the parrot was unable to fly anywhere. At length, the philosopher set the parrot free, whereupon it realized what freedom is; and it cried out, “Oh! I had been free from the beginning.”

257. nigel harris price - February 8, 2009

elena

To quote ‘In Search of the Miraculous’ – Lunatic feature is characterised by extreme thinking. Do you not think that, when Steve asked you to take a week’s leave, and you responded that you would rather leave completely and start your own site, that was not Lunatic?…..Nigel.

P.S. I will be quite candid again – if you start your own site, I will not visit it, but stay with the FOF Discussion site here (N).

258. elena - February 8, 2009

Nigel, you have the right to do what you like. What is important about being able to say what I have to say, is not whether I say it here or somewhere else but that it is said.

In terms of lunatic, who is acting more lunatically? Those of us who are screaming out loud that hundreds of people are being raped in the Fellowship of Friends and thousands in cults or those of us who are trying to present the Fellowship and other cults as institutions without consequences?

Nigel love, never undermine your capacity to sense what is not right and scream out loud so that others can help you.

259. ton - February 8, 2009

circa 250 elena,

“Whalerider, Ton, Lauralupe, More history Needed and Old Fish in the Sea, would you be willing to be one of those five people? Or Bruce, Yesri Baba, Tatyana and anybody else?”

I know I can’t do what our flogmoderator does here…
thanks again Stephen.

260. dragon - February 8, 2009

256. thanks for the “Zen” like fable.

I can’t feel domination on the Blog because it is my own free decision to read all posts or only a part.

It can also be a step to liberation to accept the diversity of opinion and to look at the waves of the Blog and to let it go.

If there is no respond to a certain post it can be nevertheless instructive.

It is unimportant that we are not always producing gems of timeless beauty.

The most important fact is that it IS POSSIBLE to write and to exchange views (it is the recovery zone after the FOF)

Thank you Steve for your work!

261. brucelevy - February 8, 2009

Elena

“If you people wish to go ahead and ban me because of that you can do so but the real reason that you are banning me is not that but the fact that I am exposing us and the Fellowship in such a deep way that it is difficult for you to bear that amount of exposure just as the majority here are not willing to stand out in front of the Fellowship gate and scream to the world that people are being systematically raped inside.”

No one’s asking to ban you. You’ve brought that up over and over. No one’s ever asked for that as far as I can remember. They have asked you to take a chill pill periodically.

But you are a rant machine. I don’t recall anyone disagreeing with you as to the fundamentals of why people are here- exposing the FOF. But you go on and on, take up an incredible amount of space, consistently misinterpret what people say, especially to you.

Your rants have reduced to blog to virtual irrelevancy and farce. The fact that you can’t see past your nose to see this is pretty frighting. I don’t support the FOF in any way, but I can certainly see why they needed to protect their structure from an ongoing barrage of your stream of consciousness.

And I have no inclination to apologize or soften what I’m saying, like too many others here who have tried to talk to you. I just don’t give a fuck, this is absurd. Your “stuff” has inundated this venue and tuned it into it’s opposite.

262. "I see" said the blind man - February 8, 2009

Elena
You are not particularly interesting. You are not particularly clever. However, you are particularly boring and annoying. Because of some run-ins you have had previously, people treat you with kid gloves so you don’t go all crazy-pscho-bitch on them.
You are making yourself sicker not better. I almost don’t read posts on the blog now because of your excess.

263. Wouldnt You Like To Know - February 8, 2009

2009 Phases of the Moon

FULL MOON:
JAN 10 7:27 pm
FEB 9 6:49 am
MAR 10 7:38 pm
APR 9 7:56 am
MAY 8 9:01 pm
JUN 7 11:12 am
JUL 7 2:21 am
AUG 5 5:55 pm
SEP 4 9:03 am
OCT 3 11:10 pm
NOV 2 11:14 am
DEC 1 11:30 pm
DEC 31 11:13 am

NEW MOON:
JAN 25 11:55 pm
FEB 24 5:35 pm
MAR 26 9:06 am
APR 24 8:23 pm
MAY 24 5:11 am
JUN 22 12:35 pm
JUL 21 7:35 pm
AUG 20 3:02 am
SEP 18 11:44 am
OCT 17 10:33 pm
NOV 16 11:14 am
DEC 16 4:02 am

Prepared by John Mosley
Griffith Observatory

Data from US Naval Observatory
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.html
corrected for Los Angeles’ local time zone and daylight time when in effect.

264. Opus111 - February 8, 2009

Elena

I will add to your fire a little bit.

I think banning you would be a little too easy. It would have the unfortunate side effect to reinforce that feeling of being a special victim, unlike and more abused than any and everyone else.

You wish to be free to speak up, to repeat things, to cut and paste entire books, to request that each of your posts be acknowledged with criticism or praise, to be addressed personally in a public forum, otherwise it will be yet another sign of lack of respect for you. You wish the same for everyone. Well, there would not be enough time in a day to read the result of similar compulsive behavior, even if it were the small group of regular contributors to this site. Imagine the results with hundreds or thousands of people.

I do not see clearly the difference between being asked to listen and shut up, or else leave (FOF), and being called a coward, accomplice in modern day genocide or worse, If I do not acknowledge a particular posting on this blog, or worse scroll past it (your demands).

Is this your understanding of being set free? Why not include being able to walk away from a given situation or not answer a vociferous request for speech, for example?

265. Josiane - February 8, 2009

Elena,

Everything in moderation. I am adding my voice here to those who are not posting any more because this blog has become “yours”. I may incur your “wrath” by saying that and that’s fine.

To All:
Below is a (IMO) very useful piece of information posted by Dalia Cahill on the Greater Fellowship regarding the astronomical events in February. To summarize, be kind to yourself, your loved ones and everyone else. Knowing that it’s planetary makes it less personal. Love yo you all.

Here it is:
“The constellation of Capricorn is undoubtedly the highlight of the February sky. Here five powerful planets gather, combining their diverse characteristics and creating an intense lunar eclipse on the 9th. The actors are an exalted Mars, debilitated Jupiter, Mercury, Rahu and the Sun. They will all remain in close proximity, going in and out of planetary war with each other, for most of the month, with the exception of the Sun, which will move to Aquarius on the 12th. An increase in the complexity and intensity of current affairs and in all areas of personal and public lives should be expected, with the most critical time occurring from the 9th to the 15th.

Interestingly enough, our newly elected president’s ascendant is Capricorn with Jupiter and a strong Saturn in Capricorn, which indicates there will be a focus on him and high expectations of him throughout this year.

The lunar eclipse during the full moon on Monday the 9th will occur at 26’59” Cancer at 03.38 GMT as all the five planets mentioned above will be aspecting the moon. Expect extra tension, especially those of you with Cancer and Capricorn ascendants and those who have their moon or major plants there. So try to take it easy and avoid traveling.

On the brighter side is an exalted Venus in Pisces, which will remain there for four months due to a long, quite rare, retrograde cycle. Her lengthy stay in this favorable position will surely brighten up this apparent economic gloom and help us to better appreciate the simple pleasures of friendship.

Venus will remain brightly visible in the sky until March 7th and will then position herself as the morning star for the rest of the year. Take advantage of this short period to go out and enjoy her magnificence, especially from the 24th through the 28th when Venus is near the crescent moon.

Mars is also exalted in Capricorn for the next 45 days, which will energize all efforts to bring changes in governmental policy, the business world and the housing market, Mars being the chief indicator of real estate. Mars and Jupiter will be in proximity and reasonably easy to view about an hour and a half before sunrise.

Watch out too for the new moon on the 24th as it occurs in Aquarius while the mighty retrograde Saturn will be in full aspect. Be extra careful on the preceding days, from the 22nd through the 24th, as the moon crosses over Capricorn.

With the month of February indicating so much volatility and pressure, we can take some remedial measures by cultivating balanced routines and adding a few more good habits that will serve us well in the changes coming this year. Take time out to meditate, read and absorb more spiritual truths, and practice regular affirmations, mantras and prayers. Be extra kind and considerate toward your loved ones and everyone who crosses your path since we’re all fighting a hard battle. Donate to charity and feed the poor. Saturn in Leo offers a great opportunity for self-transformation and altering our ways, if we don’t resist.

“Only by love, love is awakened.”

“As I radiate love and good will to others, I will open the channel for God’s love to come to me. Divine love is the magnet that draws to me all good.” Paramamhnsa Yogananda

Happy Valentine’s Day to you all!

266. elena - February 8, 2009

Ton, not to worry, I’m not running for the post any more, nor did I expect you or the others to support me because you support me but because I would have respected your decision had there been a need for one. I explicitly didn’t ask Dragon so that it would not be connected to the few that have expressed support.

Bruce, Opus 111,

Bruce, you’re right and I don’t expect you to apologize. Our differences have long been obvious and I will also not apologize for ranting of for having been emotionally dependent on this blog until the crisis with Whalerider. The irony of this blog is that all we do is talk about how people are hurt in cults but when someone acts out the damages then we are extremely surprised, tell them they are not charming enough for us to listen to them, tell them they are lunatics. I feel strong enough now for you and all of you to lay out your rants against me if that is what you want or ban me if that makes you more comfortable. No one has outwardly said ban Elena but the very few significant things I’ve been saying have been ignored consistently while at the same time I receive personal attacks from you as much as others. You send out videos like Storm, mocking me but you don’t actually dialogue about anything substantial that I am presenting. You are furious with my “ongoing barrage of your stream of consciousness” but nowhere do you take even one point to say, this doesn’t make sense because of this or that, you simply ignore me. You have a right to do that, you have a right to mock me, you have a right to do whatever you like but I also have the right to protest. Protesting is what I’ve been doing since Another Name did what is being done here for months.

Opus 111

That is one way to look at it Opus, the other one is that I’ve already been banned, that you do not pull your selves together to say, we are banning this person, you simply ostracize what ever the person says. The majority here does that. Confronting you about it is important because it allows you to look at it and me to acknowledge it. I am very glad I did, it’s freed me a little from the emotional dependence that I continued to have on the Fellowship as the community from which I was referencing my self by.

The pattern here has been that the majority of you treat me as if I were some kind of lunatic that on the one hand you applaud for having the courage to say things and on the other, you ignore me and neglect to address the things that I am saying while someone consistently attacks me personally while the rest of you watch in silence. You are a group of people that see others being insulted and do nothing about it. You were a group of people who watched people getting raped for decades and said nothing about it. Many of you left the Fellowship knowing what it was doing and never bothered to tell us. Knowing all that, it should not surprise me that you watch in silence while people attack me or anyone else personally and never address the what I am actually saying. Situations like the one in which I express to Ton my admiration for his work and connection are turned upside down and backwards and misinterpreted completely, is something that has been happening here for a long time.

I don’t deny that I’ve been a pain in the ass, that I have perceived ALL that with the same pathetic little needy person desperately asking the same community of the Fellowship to acknowledge the value of what I am presenting until just a couple of days ago in which Whalerider’s attack was so low that it broke me off. I should be for ever grateful to him.

You can interpret my actions the way you did and like Whalerider pretend to give it some psychological shortage on my part and continue trying to diminish me with those interpretations or you can acknowledge that the imbalance here did not appear yesterday but that we’ve been struggling with it for over a year. You and I have much struggled for example but we’ve finally come to a place of certain respect and are beginning to dialogue. For me that is wonderful, it’s what we are here to recover. But if we’re just going to ignore each other, what does it matter if you ban me for protesting it?

267. elena - February 8, 2009

Rosiane,

You are extremely courageous, it is a good time to express your self about what you actually think when you are justified by the same mass behavior of the Fellowship. Not a word in years until you’ve got enough of a group to back you up. That is courage dear, Yogananda does not need to radiate love because you have it all in you.

You might not see when the sun shines through but the sun shines through even when you don’t see it!

268. waskathleenw - February 8, 2009

Elena,

Not everyone has time or inclination to read everything written here and to respond, by name, to the writer. Life is just that way.

I rarely post anymore. I scan briefly then read the short, concise posts unless I see something from someone new with a new story or message to share.

Do you have time for two blogs? If you do, perhaps it would actually be a positive thing for you to continue participating in this one and also start your own where people could interact with you the way you want to be interacted with, and you could say all the things you need to say as often as you’d like. It would be your blog, so there should be no complaints.

The two-blog option might make it easier for you to participate here (see, NOT banning) in the more balanced way that others have suggested.

This blog has been a phenomenal tool for helping people get out of the FoF and to help heal the past. I would hate to see that get lost as people begin to write it off as an angry rant dominated by one voice.

If you’re newly reading this blog, please go back a few dozen pages. It will be worth your while.

269. waskathleenw - February 8, 2009

What I meant by this:

“If you’re newly reading this blog, please go back a few dozen pages. It will be worth your while.”

is that the effort of going back a few pages would be a worthwhile effort, not that there has been nothing of worth posted recently.

270. dick moron - February 8, 2009

Ever have one of those days…..

271. peter - February 8, 2009

Elena is a woman on a mission.

And that good.

Let everybody please do here wat he oe she thinks
that is the right thing to do.

If more people would have her commitment the fof
would be history.

272. brucelevy - February 8, 2009

Elena

“You send out videos like Storm, mocking me”

This is a great example of your misinterpretation and your penchant to have everything be about YOU.
At no time, from first watching the Storm clip, through posting it here did I have any thought about YOU.

You are a professional victim and exhibitionist

273. brucelevy - February 8, 2009

“266. elena – February 8, 2009

Rosiane,

You are extremely courageous, it is a good time to express your self about what you actually think when you are justified by the same mass behavior of the Fellowship. Not a word in years until you’ve got enough of a group to back you up. That is courage dear, Yogananda does not need to radiate love because you have it all in you.”

And that’s just fucking sick.

274. lauralupa - February 8, 2009

275. lauralupa - February 8, 2009

As she walks in the room
Scented and tall
Hesitating once more
And as I take on myself
And the bitterness I felt
I realise that love flows

Wild, white horses
They will take me away
And the tenderness I feel
Will send the dark underneath
Will I follow?

Through the glory of life
I will scatter on the floor
Disappointed and sore
And in my thoughts I have bled
For the riddles I’ve been fed
Another lie moves over

Wild, white horses
They will take me away
And the tenderness I feel
Will send the dark underneath
Will I follow?

Wild, white horses
They will take me away
And the tenderness I feel
Will send the dark underneath
Will I follow?

Portishead – The Rip

276. fofblogmoderator - February 8, 2009

262 is newly moderated

277. elena - February 8, 2009

wasKathleenw,

For someone who I think has not addressed me once in two years, I must admit, it is a pleasure to meet you. I am not interested in going to another blog unless you ban me here just as I’m not interested in being moderator and banning everyone else so that I can be the only one who talks.

I have had as much respect and appreciation for your posts here and a lot more interest than you’ve had for mine, I don’t think I’ve ever attacked anything you said. So if you’re not going to have me banned, we can continue tolerating each other with equal distance. If you don’t post any more, is it because I’ve stopped you or because you don’t have enough trust on what you would like to say? Tell me how have I stopped you? Do you notice that a lot of my talking is defending myself from people who attack me? That when I am not being attacked I write my own little posts and don’t attack anyone for the pleasure of it? Or that the personal attacks have increased as my understanding of the horrors of the Fellowship deepens? It is all connected no matter how independent you wish to put it.

Peter,

Thank you for those words. I know for many it would be good enough if I take that mission and blow it somewhere else but they’ll have to ban me to do that. Otherwise, we all have a right to be here.

In the meantime, I do promise I will never again ask those people to acknowledge what I am saying or grant me any emotional support. I’ve grown up a little over the past two years. I am not the needy little girl that joined the Fellowship or the blog anymore.

278. ton - February 8, 2009

circa 264 josiane,
thanks for contributing your voice again:

“N-terestingly enough, our newly elected president’s ascendant is Capricorn with Jupiter and a strong Saturn in Capricorn, which indicates there will be a focus on him and high expectations of him throughout this year.”
no need for a astology or an individual horoscope to ‘predict’ the foregoing.

“LXXII
And that inverted Bowl they call the Sky,
Whereunder crawling coop’d we live and die,
Lift not your hands to It for help–for It
As impotently moves as you or I.”

http://classics.mit.edu/Khayyam/rubaiyat.html

279. elena - February 8, 2009

I see said the blind man,

It’s good there are different opinions here. You could sign up for getting me banned and you sure might win!

280. The FOFion - February 9, 2009

Wow. Wow, what an honor. The Galleria Correspondent’s Dinner. To actually sit here at the same table with my hero, Teacher Robert Earl Burton. To be this close to the man. I feel like I’m dreaming. Somebody pinch me…

Tonight, it is my privilege to celebrate this teacher. Because we’re not so different, he and I. We both get it, guys like us. We’re not some brainiacs on the nerd patrol. We’re not members of the Factinista. We go straight from the gut, right sir? That’s where the truth lies — right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now I know some of you are going to say I did look it up, and that’s not true. That’s because you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that’s how our nervous system works.

Every night on my show, the Colbert report, I speak straight from the gut, ok? I give people the truth unfiltered by rational argument. I call it the No Fact Zone.

I am committed to the Fellowship of Friends, I believe that everyone has a right to their own cult, whether it’s Church of Scientology, Ananda, or whatever. I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Robert Burton as your personal Teacher.

Most of all, I believe in this Teacher. Now, I know that only about 10% of the people who join the Fellowship of Friends will stay. But guys like us, we don’t pay attention to statistics! We know that statistics are just a collection of numbers that reflect what people are thinking in reality! And reality has a well-known ex-student bias. So Mr. Teacher, pay no attention to the people who say the glass is half-empty — because 10% means it’s 90% empty. There’s still some liquid in that glass, is my point. But I wouldn’t drink it. The last 10 percent is usually backwash. Look folks, my point is, that I don’t believe this is the low-point in this Teacher-ship. It’s just the lull before a comeback!

So don’t pay attention to the approval ratings that say that 90% disapprove of the job this man is doing. Doesn’t that also logically mean that 90% approve of the job he’s NOT doing? Think about it.

I just like the guy. He’s a good guy. The greatest thing about this man is that he’s steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change. This man’s beliefs never will. As excited as I am to be here with the Teacher, I am appalled to be surrounded by The Blog participants, who are destroying the FOF. With the exception of Daily Cardiac and Howard Carter, that is, because they’re good at giving you both sides of every story — Robert’s side and Girard’s side. But the rest of you. What are you thinking? Writing about secret liaisons with young men in the Galleria, and so forth. Those things are kept secret for a very important reason — they’re super depressing! And if that’s your goal, well, misery accomplished!

Over the first 36 years, you people were so good! We didn’t want to know, and you had the courtesy not to tell us. Those were good times — as far as we knew. You know, I’ve got a theory about how to stop these ex-students: Don’t let them leave!

281. dream catcher - February 9, 2009

252.
I suspect many people have stopped posting as well as reading because the blog is dominated by Elena. It has become her forum.

I so agree. This blog has helped me and some of my friends
but many has stopped reading or posting, it has become an ordeal to plough through Elena’s endless ranting and ravings, so why bother.
I still bother because there are some precious posts to be found, ones that could help a fence sitter to jump off to to the other side of the FOF. Posts like Ellen and James B. Startlingly honest and to the point truths are told here. Eye openers!

Elena got banned years ago from the discussion group, that was in its time a great way of interacting worldwide with fellow students, I believe the ban was for 6 months, Here we have a repeat situation, a great medium once again becomes a mediocre petty place that is
just not worth visiting.

Truths could be told here. Eye openers. Veil lifters, Fence pushers, gap bridges The Sarah’s and Timothy’s that are still hypnotized
could snap out of their trances with the help of this blog.

Give it a rest Elena, find a different outlet for all that energy.

282. elena - February 9, 2009

Dream catcher:
Elena got banned years ago from the discussion group, that was in its time a great way of interacting worldwide with fellow students, I believe the ban was for 6 months, Here we have a repeat situation, a great medium once again becomes a mediocre petty place that is
just not worth visiting.

Indeed, I got banned for attacking the fellowship at the time. So glad I did, so glad I still have the courage! And would be so unsurprised if you too ban me, after all you were the Fellowship and can’t even stand outside of the gates and protest because your class, education or nationality doesn’t allow you to. You fight a cause hidden behind a name because you can’t even put up enough face to hold your name up with pride.

You can’t get together to act against the Fellowship seriously but you can act like one to attack me who am the only one here expanding the reasons why the Fellowship should be closed in the study of the Rape of the Mind which not one of you has been willing to acknowledge for over a month that I’ve been working on it. You settle for little insults against a Daily Cardiac and if he’s not available then you’ve got to find someone because you don’t really want to look at the problem you just want to shout at people as they pass by.

What are you so offended by? My attacks on your separating people into not as good as you because of your nationality? Class, race, education? Is that what’s bringing out all this rage that you have against me disguised in the fact that I write more than you do?

You might be fooling your selves but you’re not fooling all of us here.

283. ton - February 9, 2009

josiane, re: the previous post —
here it is mid february 09…. and this prognostication is from november 5, o8… maybe ‘the onion’ consults astrologers?
or not:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations

thanks again fofian…

284. ton - February 9, 2009

elena,
“Is that what’s bringing out all this rage that you have against ME disguised in the fact that I write more than you do?”

ME, ME, ME….

i’ll admit that i don’t know what the answer is but imo the issue here is not a question of quantity…. and the larger issue of the FOF is certainly not all about ‘ME’ or for that matter ‘YOU’

285. elena - February 9, 2009

I agree Ton, it’s not about US, but the facts and those are the facts: I am the only one expanding or at least trying to expand the study of cults, I could be wrong about my comparisons to other mind control environments but I could be right. If you’re just going to ignore them and attack me because I write too much what is the point of making the effort?

286. Opus111 - February 9, 2009

Elena

If you’re just going to ignore them and attack me because I write too much what is the point of making the effort?

You could make the effort for yourself; that way, you will be rewarding yourself and, hopefully, you will be satisfied with yourself.

287. Vena - February 9, 2009

I’m sure the Fellowship is loving this.

288. elena - February 9, 2009

Opus 111

I’m satisfied with myself Opus, it is not my work what I am protesting but your indifference to it. Your neglecting to acknowledge it while allowing many to attack me personally. If you’re going to ban me you might as well get it over with but I will have made my protest.

Vena,
Of course they are loving it. They marked me as a lunatic and people like you carried it over here. When they talk to students they tell them that it is alright to go to the greater Fellowship or meetings with ex-members, who are not interested in closing the Fellowship, they must just avoid people like me who are dangerous to the Fellowship. “Lunatic” they label me so that they predispose the member and by the time they read me, they turn whatever I say upside down and backwards.

You are a talented group of people but just as you justify why you are not willing to stand outside the gates and make it public and loud enough what is happening in the Fellowship, you justify not seriously considering what I am writing because I am a lunatic. It mattered to me, you almost managed to defeat me like the Fellowship but after seeing the things you allow people to go through here without protesting, your opinions are as marked by your personal interests as the Fellowship’s. Fifty or more posts on significant questions that have nothing to do with me personally and not one of you speaks but if it’s to ban me or insult me, you are all one voice. Not mass behavior? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet!

289. Vena - February 9, 2009

Dear Elena,
I just want to tell you that I am fond of you and always have been even though we never knew each other well. You are a person of courage and strong conviction and I admire the stance you have taken.
I am only trying to share my concern that things have gotten out of hand. My primary interest in the blog was in it’s ability to reveal to those still in some of the contradictions and corruption. I am concerned that this can not happen with the focus being so much on your personal issues and anger. Many people have tried to share the same observation with you. Does it not make you wonder if there is not some truth in these comments? I don’t believe anyone here wants to hurt you. I think you may need more help than you are getting here and that spending so much time on this blog may be making things worse for you. I wish you peace and healing.

290. ton - February 9, 2009

elena 285,
just to clarify: it’s not about “ME” (that means you)… but it is about us, all of us and not JUST you.

you wrote:

“I am the only one expanding or at least trying to expand the study of cults…”

elena, are you reading any of the other posts here?! when you make a statement like this i have to wonder.

no one here has suggested ‘banning’ you… but you yourself continue to repeat the suggestion… what’s that about?

291. elena - February 9, 2009

Thank you Vena. Are you willing to acknowledge any of the other points I made? Or you are 100% right because so many of you feel that way?

Fond of me? You’ve seen me go through hell here and kept silent then when things get rough you offer your voice of concern on the side of silencing me. Fond of me?

I thank you for your concern Vena but the blog is revealing a lot of the contradictions and corruption not only inside but outside. We question each other and move on but do not silence each other. If you’re going to silence people or me, you have another Fellowship, another club and I’ll be happy to be out. You pretend to be concerned about my well being but are consistently indifferent about what I’m talking about. That is my protest. I hold to it. I don’t expect either one of you will be any more interested in my posts in the future but at least we are clear about what is going on here. Hundreds told me what you are telling me now two years ago, if I had listened to you, not half of those that have left would have made it. This friction is as necessary as everything else.

292. Opus111 - February 9, 2009

Elena

I don’t expect either one of you will be any more interested in my posts in the future but at least we are clear about what is going on here. Hundreds told me what you are telling me now two years ago, if I had listened to you, not half of those that have left would have made it.

Are you suggesting that half of the 600 or so people who left in the past 2 years left because of YOU, what YOU wrote or what YOU did? Wow! Let’s stay humble, sister.

293. elena - February 9, 2009

Ton, I already said it: if you’re going to ignore the work I am doing here on The Rape of the Mind and instead allow personal attacks without addressing the issues, you might as well ban me for you have already banned me by ignoring me.

I have attacked that because I am hoping that we can at least reach a point in which we can disagree and continue to respect each other. When I was emotionally vulnerable I was unable to answer without anger but I am less vulnerable now and can make my points more clearly. It’s been a long process. If we are just going to say to each other “you’re so boring” without having ever questioned what was being said, where is the dialogue? Or if we are going to insult each other because this is a blog where anyone can hide behind a mask, what is the difference between this poverty and what we had in the Fellowship? There were no masks there, we just weren’t allowed to exist.

“I am the only one expanding or at least trying to expand the study of cults…”

That is definitely easy to confuse, what I meant is that I am the only one here opening new venues to understand what happens in cults by exploring their inverted connection to mind control environments. I may be wrong but if no one addresses those possibilities one way or the other, then I might as well not make the effort here. Working in vain like we all did in the Fellowship, that is, working without a dialogue and being completely ignored, is no longer possible. That is precisely what I am attacking about the Fellowship.

With all this I don’t mean to say that you are not all right in stating that I’ve been a pain in the ass constantly calling attention to my self. Oh yes, I realize I have been doing that as I’ve said, desperately needing a reassurance that I never found in the Fellowship. All those “values” that we shared needed to be confronted. We don’t have values to share? Fine, let’s be clear about it and I will not ask for it again but besides asking for emotional support, I’ve been presenting venues of exploration about cults that have nothing to do with me personally, that I’ve not read anywhere and that I present here in the hope that those who have much read tell us if they’ve found similar approaches. There is not that either? Fine, we can be clear about that too. You neglect to address what I present, you attack me personally and then you express those same things as if they were yours. That is not what bothers me: make them yours if they fit you but don’t attack me personally and pretend that all I am doing here is calling attention to my self because I am not, whether you acknowledge it or not.

It is true that we are also here to inspire each other and when we stop inspiring each other we might as well call it a day. Time for me to get some rest.

294. Wildz - February 9, 2009

Vena
“Does it not make you wonder if there is not some truth in these comments? I don’t believe anyone here wants to hurt you.”
Elena
“Thank you Vena. Are you willing to acknowledge any of the other points I made? Or you are 100% right because so many of you feel that way?”

I don’t see corruption, or silencing of people on this blog. I was out of the Fellowship of Friends and protesting against it in my own manner for over a decade now. There are many others like me.

295. elena - February 9, 2009

No, I’m not suggesting that they left because of me Opus. I have been not only the worst pain in the ass in this blog but the worst pain in the ass to the Fellowship. I have not allowed the pressure against the Fellowship wane one day. We have all here in this blog worked hard at trying to make this happen but if you happen to read the last sixty pages, you might actually realize that I’ve kept that friction going, not because of the delightful and kind help that you have offered but in spite of the tremendous opposition I have also found here.

When I was going to picket I got so many insults here that God knows why I ever stayed. I guess I had no where else to go. But then after I picketed, I was praised. It’s strange how things move isn’t it?

296. elena - February 9, 2009

Wonderful Wildz, maybe we can get on with it and concentrate on what matters if you’re not going to ban me.

297. Wildz - February 9, 2009

It is not my place to ban you on this blog.

298. Opus111 - February 9, 2009

We may as well try to get to the bottom of this…

Elena

I knew the picketing issue would come up. You got a lot of (deserved) praise and publicity for it. That being said, how do you know it had any, and I mean any, effect on people leaving afterward
? It probably annoyed FOF and they ask a lawyer to try and stop it, but past that, it did not result in FOF being closed down or, as far as I can tell scores of people inside coming to their senses. Not surprisingly, some insiders (reportedly) snickered at Elena being Elena.

What it shows to me is what brings any member out (I was one until no so long ago) is not at all clear, and certainly not monolithic. The spell has to be broken.

Countless people here, and many others who have left and tried to rehabilitate themselves but never posted here, have gone through the same process “you and we” go through now, through the same writings about cults and mind-controlling organizations. Just because something you read strikes you as very revealing to you does not mean it has to become gospel to everyone else.

If you became more selective in your contributions, personal and borrowed, I for one would be more willing to invest the time in the reading.

299. elena - February 9, 2009

We may as well get to the bottom of this.. sure, why don’t we.

Opus 111: Just because something you read strikes you as very revealing to you does not mean it has to become gospel to everyone else.

No, it doesn’t mean that Opus 111, but it often does become the gospel even if I don’t get the credit because of course, it is just “Elena being Elena”. Such a comfortable outfit! You wear it better each day, like those ties in the Fellowship.

It is fine with me if you are not willing to invest the time, it is as good an excuse as any other. It was the same excuse in the Fellowship for Robert or Girard to not listen to anyone else. I just keep forgetting that we are all perfectly trained Fellowshippers.

300. tatyana - February 9, 2009

298. Opus111
“What it shows to me is what brings any member out (I was one until no so long ago) is not at all clear, and certainly not monolithic. The spell has to be broken.”

What broke your spell and brought you out? It took me 1.5 years to make a desicion to leave. It was a very agonizing experience. I am curious to know what “stop signs” everyone of us had to overthrow in order to escape and what helped us to do that?

301. fofblogmoderator - February 9, 2009

Elena-

You remind me of Greg Goodwin. Before he was banned I wrote to him in private and instead of keeping it private, he blasted my correspondence all over youtube. If I wanted to communicate to you through the blog, I would have done so. Now that you have put things out in the open, then so be it.

In one of your replies to me you stated:

“I am in fact the one that is moderating this blog, I have been for two years. If you stop me you’ll lose me. You might not give me any credit for this but it’s me who’s been putting the blood in for people to write and argue and think.”

When I read that I thought maybe you should become the “official” moderator. Although I also realized that if that were to happen the blog would probably change direction. I value the blog’s existence more than your participation in it.

All I did was ask you to take 1 week off. What is the big deal?? You could have written back and suggested a compromise of two days, or whatever. You kept insisting that I gave you no reason, yet I clearly spelled it out when I told you that the blog feels unbalanced because of your overabundance of contributions. Isn’t that a reason? I’m not sure why you equate a suggested “leave of absence” with being “banned”. It seems like you have overreacted to my request.

A plant can’t live without water, but if you give it too much water it dies. When I see your name all over the blog every day, it reminds me of an over-watered plant.

Neither you or anyone else is going to be able to shut down the Fellowship Of Friends. It is a legal organization and whatever Burton does in his “private” life, he does it legally. If you want to change the laws of the state of California, you’re on the wrong site.

The members that now remain will stay on long after Burton dies. It is a country club with a country club lifestyle for many of the members. They have invested their entire adult lives in making that place look like a Beverly Hills retreat. The core participants will all die as Fellowship members with their teaching payments current and probably somewhere in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars invested over their lifetime.

Pavel started this blog because he went to a prospective student meeting and was completely turned off. His intent to start this blog, if I recall correctly, was to steer people away from joining. That sounds like the right mission for this cyber vehicle.

In your emails to me you indicated that keeping you away from the blog for any amount of time would equate to banning you. I would gladly offer you the idea of sitting out page #65 and seeing how it might work for you to come back on page #66. I feel it’s in the best interest of the blog for you to take a leave of absense. If I’m wrong, it won’t be the first or the last time in my life that I am. In the event that you don’t want to return, then I wish you luck in launching your new web site. I’m sure anyone interested in following it will be able to find it through Google.

302. fofblogmoderator - February 9, 2009

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