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Fellowship Of Friends Discussion, Part 58 December 7, 2008

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.
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Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/

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Comments

1. elena - December 7, 2008

Dragon,

There is no battlefield when people hide at the time of battle!

2. Jomo Piñata - December 7, 2008

Leave the school and then come back. Go the end of the line. Awk!

3. Jomo Piñata - December 7, 2008

Me and Asaf. Drinking coconut juice. Awk!

4. Jomo Piñata - December 7, 2008

Did you know a parrot can be trained to peck numbers on a cash register? Awk!

5. up with which I will not put - December 7, 2008

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/11/25/sbm.perpetrators/index.html

Regarding predatory behavior and attitudes and lack of empathy in the fof mentioned by Aline on the previous page:

“People will do almost anything in a group and will do anything not to be rejected,” said psychologist Philip Zimbardo, a professor emeritus at Stanford and famous for his 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment, which divided student volunteers into “prisoners” and “guards” and showed how easily people could be induced to commit sadistic acts.

“They give up a sense of personal accountability and diffuse responsibility to the leader.”

6. Jomo Piñata - December 7, 2008

I’m thinking of starting a school based on Ouija bingo. I poop on a Ouija board and people get to pay to make sense out of it. Payment is a principle, you know. Awk

7. Jomo Piñata - December 7, 2008

Liver, kidney, whatever. Awk!

8. Jomo Piñata - December 7, 2008

Computers are the wave of the future. Glad I saw THAT coming. Awk!

9. dragon - December 7, 2008

New options for the Fellowship boys, leave the school,

“SHILL OUT” with e.g. VW, the time has come:

PS elena you are right, where have all the warriors gone?

Our SWEETIES lost in the winter wonderland of St. Moritz?

10. up with which I will not put - December 7, 2008

Madam X: worth reposting:

“This is from Pamela Kulbarsh, RN, BSW has been a crisis clinician with San Diego’s Psychiatric Emergency Response Team (PERT) for five years, and has ridden with Carlsbad, Oceanside and Escondido Departments, as well as with deputies from the San Diego Sheriff’s Vista and Encinitas stations. She is also a PERT Team Leader. Pam has been a guest speaker related to psychiatric emergencies and has published articles in nursing magazines. She has taught Regional Officer Training classes in San Diego. Pam has been a psychiatric nurse for 22 years.

“She speaks about psychopaths in the following:

“Common psychopathological traits include the following:
glib and superficial charm;
grandiose sense of self-worth;
need for stimulation;
pathological lying;
cunning and manipulativeness;
lack of remorse or guilt; shallow affect;
callousness and lack of empathy;
parasitic lifestyle; poor behavioral controls;
promiscuous sexual behavior;
early behavior problems;
lack of realistic, long-term goals;
impulsivity; irresponsibility;
failure to accept responsibility for own actions;
many short-term marital relationships;
juvenile delinquency;
revocation of conditional release;
and criminal versatility.

“Psychopaths are the worse kinds of narcissists. They not only disregard society and social cues, they carry this disdain for rules to the extreme, calculating and scheming ruthlessly. They are notoriously callous career criminals. They enjoy what they do. The bottom line is that psychopaths are deliberately, energetically, joyfully evil.”

11. elena - December 7, 2008

Daily Cardiac,

My english is not good enough to understand the expression but if I take a guess:

Your ignorance surprises me, it’s the latins who have carried Christianity since Quetzalcoatl.

You could go tell that to your Teacher who’s Christian Cultinized the System worse than any other Christian Cult.

And don’t forget the Renaissance dear, even the Renaissance and Leonardo will survive your ignorance and your sick teacher’s corruption.

You still haven’t answered the question:

What is dignity for you? Integrity? Joy? Love? Harmony?

When you answer those questions for yourself, you will not be able to remain in the Fellowship of Friends Cult.

12. You-me-us-they - December 7, 2008

13. Panorea - December 7, 2008

302. lauralupa – December 7, 2008

Ursula in the Little Mermaid is another possiblity.

But Altena from the series Noir seems to be closer:

…Altena is the high priestess of the Soldats – an ancient, secret society whose power clandestinely reigns over the globe. As a high priestess who traditionally holds control over Noir, the most highly skilled assassins of the Soldats, she holds immense authority and transcends even the governing body known as the Soldats Council. She makes brief appearances through the beginning of the series and first introduced in episode six. Altena is always seen wearing a robe and is never shown to have left a place known only as “the Manor”. She is the one who raised and trained Chloe as Noir, who acts as her personal bodyguard.

Little is known about Altena, but her ultimate goal involves “Le Grand Retour”, an event which will revolutionize the Soldats and change its present form. As such, there are those in the Soldats who oppose her. Altena goes by her own philosophy of “If love can kill people, hatred can save them.”…

14. dragon - December 7, 2008

Hi Jomo,

nice new icon!

Parrot-fashion for your brother!

15. Jomo Piñata - December 7, 2008

You know me: Stimulus-response machine! Awk!

16. Miguel - December 7, 2008

Thanks Steve for your work here.

Brothers in Arms – Dire Straits.

5.05

17. fofblogmoderator - December 7, 2008

5, 9, 12 & 16 are newly moderated

18. elena - December 8, 2008

Panorea,

I suppose Jack is not looking around here much so let me take your question on the petition. It is of course all there to look at but as I understand it is simply asking the agencies to investigate the Fellowship.

Since it is obvious that the many students who have left are not going to move seriously to stop the Fellowship, an investigation like that is the next hope. If nothing is done, as we all know, the Fellowship will continue to find prospective students and putting more people through the same grinder.

The motivation to let go of the blog and the whole matter is huge. It’s when I remember this fact that it is so easy to keep working against it.

19. elena - December 8, 2008

It’s seventh of December which is when Christmas really starts around here. Everyone in the neighborhood is lighting candles and putting them outside the house so that the homes are protected. People stand outside and greet each other. Medellin is particularly consistent with this light tradition. When we were children they would drive us around the city looking at the color lights that are placed on tree trunks now but they were placed inside the trees at the time making it look very beautiful but not so good for the trees.

The streets look somewhat like discotheques because almost every house is decorated with lights. It is very pretty. I hope you are enjoying your selves just as much!

It was good to see An Niel-en’s name on the petition. Serious people know what a name is good for. Hope you use yours.

20. Opus 111 - December 8, 2008

Elena:

Integrity?, Love?, Joy?, Harmony?

My guess is that DC’s answer will come pre-packaged as sometning as the following:

“All of, and each of those qualities mean presence for me. Presence comes from the practice of the sequence, and with it, salvation from the lower self and this world. With the sequence you will escape death. The sequence is the greatest discovery and the special tool handed down by the Gods to the greatest and only conscious school on earth, known to you as the Fellowship of Friends. It is lead by a fully enlightened conscious Teacher, Robert Earl Burton.

You unfortunately lost the school and with it, your understanding and all you possibilities to escape mechanical life. The moon is waiting for you and your unfortunate blog companions.”

Which part of all this do you not understand? I do not see any of these pronouncements as being open for debate.

21. whalerider - December 8, 2008

Nigel:
“Also, I see no point in having to live this life if there were not others to live further along.”

Your words struck a chord in me. This is why I appreciate the gift of my two children. I’d like to leave the world a safer place for them, free of at least one sexual predator of whom I have personal knowledge and experience. I consider it my moral duty to speak out in any manner I deem appropriate in an effort to drain his victim pool.

Daily Bread:
“The Spiritual Warrior has no outside enemies.”

True.

The part of me inside that has kept me a silent victim for 23 years has been my enemy: fear.

I do not consider a person suffering from a disabling mental disorder a foe, just a poor soul in need of intervention.

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

About 2 weeks ago I was walking to work and whom do you think I should cross paths with that fine morning? None other than Robert E. Burton and his current harem of short little men!

It was a brief and telling encounter.

As I walked toward the street corner, our eyes met for a moment. I believe he recognized me; I certainly recognized him, although I did not let on that I had. He sported a closely trimmed beard that was mostly grey and towered above those around him.

Once our eyes met, he abruptly turned to his right to cross the street, seemingly to avoid me, but the light had changed, and he had to wait at the corner. The sudden change in direction seemed to befuddle his minions. One glared at me as I walked right by them less than five feet away. The light was in my favor.

I caught the look on his face, and instantly I was reminded of what it felt like to travel with and be near him. He had a look of disdain on his face with a slack jaw that struck me as the exact same feeling of puerile dissatisfaction he exuded way back when I traveled with him. It was like how a shark swims with its mouth slightly ajar, always avoiding conflict and looking for easy prey.

I could tell that his demeanor fed the same feeling of anxiety in those around him as it had in me, of wanting to please him, to constantly dote upon him like a spoiled child who would not be appeased by anything you offered him. It was hardly the feeling one would expect from a fully enlightened, transcendent, radiant, glowing, conscious being, man number 7.3, the brightest light in 2000 years. There was no warmth there or light there. He felt like the cold moon pulling at the attention of those around him.

Afterward, I felt sick to my stomach.

So DC…the hungry moon awaits you and your unfortunate FOF companions.

Robert E. Burton is waiting for you to be his next meal or meal ticket.

The night is fine, the Walrus said, do you admire the view?

22. peter - December 8, 2008

The 100 Laws to Gain Power over Others

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q8.html

23. peter - December 8, 2008

The 100 Laws to Gain Power over Others

Part 1

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html#cq_guru_right

24. Panorea - December 8, 2008

What a chilling story Whalerider…I do not know what others will do with it. It seem you had your chance to face your monster and you will only grow from having done this. The other day I was talking with a friend who is on the way out and we were both reminded of that thorn in our hearts; when we would see Robert with the boys. All of them locked in a world of no possibilities; unable to make contact. About a year and a half ago I saw Robert for the last time at a dinner in Europe. My heart sunk again when he just entered the location and talked again to a few of us (yes, we were sooooo lucky). For the first time it became so clear to me that he had no shame. All those students around him had paid a lot to be there, had traveled overnight, had slept on a mattress on the floor to just be with him and he would just start talking about his new jewelry, the ring he had seen, that nice shirt for X, the tie he sent to Y. He really reminded me an autistic child. He then sat on the table and started talking for about an hour, checking his watch from time to time. I called a friend afterwards and told her that Robert has something perverse, could not be otherwise.

25. Daily Cardiac - December 8, 2008

6 – Jomo:

“I’m thinking of starting a school based on Ouija bingo. I poop on a Ouija board and people get to pay to make sense out of it. Payment is a principle, you know. Awk”

Why don’t you give it try and see how many people you attract and for how long.

26. Daily Cardiac - December 8, 2008

WhaleRider – 21:

This encounter did not by any chance take place in front of the Oregon House grocery did it?

27. Draco - December 8, 2008

DC, 24.
“This encounter did not by any chance take place in front of the Oregon House grocery did it?”

There we are again: “I don’t believe it.” It’s a perfectly ordinary story. Whalerider doesn’t make any extraordinary claims in it. WR will reply and tell you that it really happened and our next response will be “so what?”.

28. WonderingWhosWatching - December 8, 2008

21. whalerider

Thanks for the telling of your recent episode of close encounters of a fourth kind with REB. I am sure it was anything but kind. (Yes, it was more likely ‘butt kind.’)

That reminds me of the last time I saw the medieval lord. We had known each other well; up close and personal for many years. But on this occasion our meeting was post an acute abusive play devised by the master abuser himself and visited upon me as a vindictive treatment for one who did not obey his every whim. Like 2 gunslingers at high noon, we looked at each other across the landscape of the Galleria gardens. He saw me, and I saw him, looking at
each other as never could happen in decades. I felt just how much of an emotional cripple he is/was; experiencing and mirroring his psychopathic character right back at him so he could see himself thoroughly. Kind of like this scene in
Shakespeare’s Hamlet:

Come, come, and sit you down; you shall not budge;
You go not till I set you up a glass
Where you may see the inmost part of you.
Act 3, Scene 4
The Queen’s closet.

That’s the one where Hamlet’s mother thinks Hamlet is going to try to kill her; after hearing those lines. But it is the furtherest thing from his mind. And, Lord Polonius is hiding behind the arras to spy on them with the Queen’s full knowledge.

Yes, my distinct awareness at that moment was: 1) How pathetic, 2) Only a scared little being was there (revealing his true chief feature: fear (I’d be scared, too, if I had that much karma weighing upon me.)), and 3) Heart Chakra closed.

There went a person who was/is emotionally a cripple all the while believing themselves the most elevated emotional being on the planet.

29. Draco - December 8, 2008

At the last dinner I had with Robert I was seated three places away from him. Throughout the dinner he held the hand of the young Russian seated on his right and at one point moved the guy’s hand onto Robert’s inner thigh and rubbed it up and down. Later that dinner Robert showed an image of an Indian sculpture with a face covering the groin area. Robert commented that this was an example of the lower self consuming the sex center. I was staring in disbelief…

30. Draco - December 8, 2008

DC 55/122
ABORTION
DC: “You have spoken of abortions in the past, supposedly prompted by Robert. It’s easy to make claims but how are the claims substantiated? I’ve never heard anyone’s name mentioned in that regard?”
= I DON’T BELIEVE IT

DC: “And if names are mentioned what does it prove? Abortion is legal. It is legal by society’s law. Morally/spiritually we don’t know for sure when the soul comes into the fetus. But I would think an all knowing and compassionate deity would monitor and consider well the needs of unborn infants, and not leave the fate of a soul in the hands of men.”
= SO WHAT?

Do people give first-hand accounts of these things? I wasn’t there. I don’t believe it. Were foetuses aborted? So what? There’ll be other babies. If the potential parents leave the Fellowship, so what? There will be other fertile couples joining.

——–

When I got pregnant I was leaving at Renaissance and my husband was on salary. We did not have the money to go to a doctor and were worried about future hospital bills.

My husband called Robert, but not until years later did he tell me what the teacher had said in response to a request for financial help for the birth, namely, that we had missed an opportunity to oppose our catholic upbring by not having an abortion.

A student on salary with family later suggested we go to County Health Services. Fortunately I had excellent care.

BTW our child is an absolute delight, a gift beyond measure.

16/282/vera.mente
—————
I knew of a visit from Fran, an older women, who was sent to escort a happily married women to a hospital for a late term abortion of healthy twins. Why was this married student in a happy relationship guided to go to the hospital to abort two healthy fetuses? Robert loved the beautiful, handsome husband and it was during the mid/late 70s when the School could not afford to have students be distracted by the emotional or expensive aspects of children.

This potential mother and father were in in pain but followed Robert’s directives – it was not a pretty situation. Years later Robert got his guy back and the wife was left to earn money outside of Renaissance while her husband was on salary.

16/284/A Former female student from long ago
————————–
I loved James G. my first boyfriend in the fof, mid-70’s. We lived in a teepee up the hill with a red couch and carpets. James was a poet, a sweet gentle man who went head to head with Robert. I remember my confusion when I realized I was competing with my teacher for the affection of my boyfriend. Confusion, sadness, anger, uncomprehending shock. James left the group and I regret that I cannot access more clearly what happened. There is so much shame mixed in with the excitement of having found a “school of evolution”. I’m sure I did not talk about the shameful parts and just moved on with the “evolution” parts.

Being a female “second class citizen”, I settled for “second-best” closeness to rb, by getting involved with Thomas E. There was a big triangular struggle going on there, too, but again, the shame shrouding the situation did not allow us to talk openly about it and I remember just being very confused. Thomas and I fought often about it and eventually moved farther and farther apart. I remember calling him from the pay phone in the Lodge while he was traveling with rb to tell him I was pregnant and him telling me to just take care of it. I knew it wasn’t wanted, by him, by me, by Robert, so was shortly thereafter driven to Yuba City by Fran for an abortion. I know I’m leaving out the next chapter, but one step at a time.

I had permission to play the piano in the Goethe Academy during lunch when no one was there. It was one of the happiest hours of my days. When Robert would come smilingly back after lunch in the company of those from his entourage, his face would fall upon seeing me, and although it is not exactly the reptilian conversion Cyclops referred to in his powerful post above, that look of revulsion, disappointment, annoyance was one that I and many other women were on the receiving end on many occasions.

One other memory from my days of a woman in the company of men around the Blake Cottage/Goethe Academy was sadly watching while RB walked around and around the outside perimeter of the lawn trying to convince one of his wonderful young men that he and his lovely girlfriend/or wife, can’t remember the timing, must not have a child, and that in fact they must have an abortion. I had an opportunity to see this sad childless couple years later (when I was “out” and they still “in” thus we didn’t converse) and my heart has always gone out to them.

My tears are for you, Whalerider, Cyclops, THAT GIRL, Joseph G., Richard M, Elena, and many others who lost faith in themselves, were deceived, coerced, had abortions, gave their children away, shared their husbands with another, for all the suffering you experienced. They are for me, for the teenager I once was, for the world I’m leaving to my children. May tears of joy fall once again on us all.

16/447/If Memory Serves
—————————–
Rules about children caused a lot of emotional trouble. Burton’s suggestion was to wait 5 years after marriage to have children, and sometimes that’s a nice idea that doesn’t work. Burton told the hierarcy of the group to tell these people to have abortions if the “timing” was wrong! They did, and women had abortions!
Linda who worked closely with the teacher told us in Amsterdam in 1980 that she was “only following orders” when she told women members to have abortions! (She was a member since the early 1970s, and still is as far as we know.)

Burton wanted children to be a certain age at Armageddon, for which he claimed, “I will bridge the gap for humanity at Armageddon.”
http://www.geocities.com/stella_wirk/new1a.html
————————-
“When m & i lived at Kevin K’s house we were your “next-door” neighbors. i know that m developed a friendship with you and your wife during that phase but didn’t know that she had confided in you about the terror of her situation… it makes sense that she would turn to you and “your m” with the problem she faced.

“my m” fought valiantly against the power that was forcing her to act against her will. she fought it the only way she could, mostly with tears and verbal protestations. but there was little sympathy for her plight since it was the will of “the teacher” that she abort the pregnancy. Sharon s, linda, and other Robert Burton puppets were brought in to arrange the operation in L.A. and to try to convince m that the abortion was the right thing to do…

the explanation from the horse’s ass had something to do with the timing of the pregnancy, that the child would not be born on “the ark.” what outrageous bullshit!!! “the teacher” rationalized the whole thing based on the dire “prophecies” which at the time i believed… now i see that the predictions were nothing more than fear-mongering and another means of mind-control.

i’m not a “right-to-lifer” by any means, i believe it’s a woman’s right to choose what to do in the case of pregnancy. but given the situation and circumstances, m had no choice! she was coerced from the beginning, and i blame myself for this…. we should have just fled the scene then and there, but i was deeply brain-washed.

I’ve written previously that my “suspicion” at the time concerning the motivation behind the whole thing was jealous revenge… i left the academy and married m (you took the pictures of our wedding there at renaissance). i mentioned in a previous post that i went to miles with my concerns and suspicions — the next “conscious being” and already almost man # 5… what absolute rubbish!! i found no support from him, he backed “the teacher.” as a “task” from the teacher, i thought it was essential to convince m that it was the right thing to do…. i was just another “little eichman.”
this is stuff that’s been buried for a long time and it’s heart-rending to re-live… it makes me feel physically ill.

I was there at the hospital holding her hand after the abortion, trying to console her… (what a colossal fool i am), she could not be consoled, any words i might have uttered went unheard. the intent of the abortion worked as planned — by siding with “the teacher” i destroyed my wife’s trust in me and too, the marriage. I’ve written before, that my complicity in this criminal act is personally THE most damning event of my Fellowship of Friends experience. it’s a sin i’ve lived with for many years and i’ll go to my grave with it… there’s hell to pay. i loathe myself for my part in it and i have to wonder how a human being responsible for this situation many times over can possibly live with “itself” ?!? it’s completely monstrous!

in other posts, i’ve briefly sketched my difficulties when i left the fof… i lived a dissolute and self-destructive life, i slept on the pavement at night and aimlessly wandered the streets by day, like “wind along the waste.” later i realized that this was the manifestation of a strong death-wish, the humiliation of that kick-in-the balls courtesy of “the teacher” completely destroyed my will to live and i can say now, “but for the grace of god” and the loving support of a few earth-angels, i should be already, a long time in the grave.

thank you for listening to my story
Blog 3, April 28
———————–

31. Panorea - December 8, 2008

What is so bewildering to me is the fact that so many descent people are ready to lie, commit fraud, and cover up in the name of Presence, Consciousness, in the name of their “Teacher.” They sell their souls in exchange of what? – The crumbs of an emotionally crippled being. And why? Because he keeps on telling them he is the only Savior in this lifetime, this planet, this universe.

Probably Whalerider met Bob and his “entourage” (quite a civilized way to say harem…) during one of those trips where he is devouring all the monies you and I have paid for having him telling us how special we are.

Oregon House, Europe? He wouldn’t have dared to walk with the boys around OH store. People who are not in the FOF and have encountered Robert (see art dealers…) have a very low opinion of his Highness. The times I have used his name for items he had viewed (our monies again…) I was always confronted with questions about his “bodyguards” and how odd his behavior had been (yes, I know it is because he is permanently in the fourth state…).

32. Ellen - December 8, 2008

Panorea,
You asked about the petition?
I can only suggest that you read it – a few times. Read the letters that accompany it. Let it sink in, reverberate and digest. Take some time, if you need it. You can ask yourself if the descriptions correspond to your own experience, and they may not.

You can ask yourself if you think the petition is the best way to address the problem of the continuing harm this ignorant man will continue to inflict on naieve seekers, and you may not think it is.

You can read the discussion that was started on the GFoF about “to sign or not to sign”, and see if the opinions of other people reverberate within you or not.

Ultimately, I consider signing a matter of personal choice and not to be mandated by a flip-side mentality nor by fear. I think every post here on this blog helps to bring light to the situation. I think personal contact with every friend who is still a member but who is also open to letting more light shine into his/her heart and mind also helps. I think educating yourself helps. There are many possibilities on many levels. My personal preference would be to carpet bomb Oregon House with copies of “I Am That”, but still, I could not force anyone to read it, much less understand it.

Nevertheless, finally, I did sign, for some very personal reasons that took me much of my adult life to pierce.

“Go deeper, nothing more is necessary…”

33. nigel harris price - December 8, 2008

Continuing with ‘form upom form’ really does not help the true aspirant, but just delays the inevitable leaving of a cult…..Nigel.

34. another name - December 8, 2008

Thanks Whalerider and others sharing your story regarding “meetings” with Bobby the Baboon.

I wonder when I read

“This is why I appreciate the gift of my two children. I’d like to leave the world a safer place for them, free of at least one sexual predator of whom I have personal knowledge and experience. I consider it my moral duty to speak out in any manner I deem appropriate in an effort to drain his victim pool.”

Why does this FEEL so right, when I read the above. It penetrates so more more then intellectual pieces for example form Eckhardt Tolle about the collective ego? I have a deep wish to make the world a SAFER place. And I sleep better when I know that this issue is adddressed and acknowledge to the world. It FEELS so much better when me and other people are WELL informed and are able to make a better decision then when we joined the fellowship of friends.

It does me well that there are people who are concerned for children safety..It meets my need for safety, honesty and to walk the talk.

How many still have a deep pain regarding center directors and traveling teachers who came through the centers and vented the info of our “conious ” teacher….when weI were young and young in the fellowship of friends?

BIG LIES. BIG LIES. This hurt to be misdirected for so many year, on the premises of a bunch of lies with the goal to satisfy a con man!

Please Frank and Daily Cardiac. (Is your last name starting with an F?)
Tell me : Does not it not hurt??

On another subjectL
Where can you meet stoplights and Robert walking with his harem?
Daily F, not in front of the OH store….Silly Mr F….there are no stoplight in front of the OH store….

Let me guess: A city like LA, New York, San Fransisco, Washington close to shops, antique dealers and art dealers?
Make your pick Daily F . Robert is not able to travel to Paris or Italy or Russia because of some dealing which are above Feminine Dominance? He has not gone to Europe for a while….O maybe in Egypt……He maybe was in Egypt, no to dangerous to walk in Egypt…
Mexico? I doubt it. No a large American city with laaarge shops.

If he walks around in OH …please OHers let the blog know….
We can all go too and try to look in his eyes and verify, hear me, Daily F and Frank, verify the empathy and love, he radiates

35. another name - December 8, 2008

O Mr Daily F and Frank…do you live in Germany…?

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?djindjin

Check this out. The last one who signed is a daughter of a cult member. Not an ex member, a DAUGHTER of a cult member. She request investigation……Do you thinks she has a need for more information and protection…or….?

36. elena - December 8, 2008

Opus 111: “…..You unfortunately lost the school and with it, your understanding and all you possibilities to escape mechanical life. The moon is waiting for you and your unfortunate blog companions.”

Which part of all this do you not understand? I do not see any of these pronouncements as being open for debate.”

Hi Opus,

I imagine this last part is actually directed to Daily Cardiac and you’re doing something I often do which is jump from whoever I’m writing to, towards the whole blog or somebody else who I haven’t told.

Yes, Daily Cardiac and most in the Fellowship would answer the way you presented, thank you for pointing it out before he finally gets to it so that we can avoid answering another useless post.

The tragedy we are in is that no one can give what they don’t have and Daily Cardiac and Company cannot move out of the shit they are in because they haven’t tasted anything better. It is not that their minds don’t give, it’s that it is not in their “being.”

I believe it’s in the subconscious of the blog otherwise people would not insist on the points and yet if you take a good look, the blog tends to remain in the level of rejecting stupidity with the same stupidity without being able to move forward into greater horizons. If I remember correctly, it’s that law in which you can’t counteract two with four, you have to be at eight to make a change. So in the blog, the tendency is to get stuck in rationalizations with Daily Cardiac or Frank rather than pull the issues up into a legitimate stand of being.

Another way to put it is rejecting negativity with negativity without really being able to evoke the inner space for “grace” to step in. Grace or any of those positive emotions that come from it: dignity, integrity, joy, harmony, love.

I think we are at that crossroad in which you cannot move if you’re opposing a force with the same force. A greater force needs to be presented to make a difference. It is clear that in everything the Fellowship representatives have offered they do not have the “being” to offer that, they just try to wash arguments away with deviations. No matter how conscious they pretend their school is, they have nothing but justifications for their misgivings. They are not “inspired”, they remain at the level of the instinctive centre, giving “an eye for an eye.” What is telling about the fact that they are not willing to answer the question, is that they are not connected with dignity, integrity, joy, harmony or love which are the true qualities of a human being. They discard these as insignificant just like others on the blog, discard them as “fundamentalism”. What we neglect to address is as revealing as what we do address.

It is not justifying rape with the rape of the world that people can move away from raping each other, it’s when people realize the dignity of the being within themselves and others that they are no longer willing to move a hand against each other.

Thank you Opus 111 for giving me the opportunity to expand on this idea. I am, like others, trying to understand as we go along.

37. Mick Danger - December 8, 2008

Love them sequins,
can’t get enough of ’em;
there really should be more of em.
Apologies to Odgen Nash

38. Mick Danger - December 8, 2008

P.S. “TP” is american slang for toilet paper.
Put that in your pipe & smoke it.
(Like Cheech & Chong in the movie.)

39. Jomo Piñata - December 8, 2008

6 – Jomo:

“I’m thinking of starting a school based on Ouija bingo. I poop on a Ouija board and people get to pay to make sense out of it. Payment is a principle, you know. Awk”

23 – Lacuna Piñata:

Why don’t you give it try and see how many people you attract and for how long.

Liver, kidney, whatever. The new form is Ouija bingo. Are the new cuff links ready? Awk!!</b?

40. Ellen - December 8, 2008

#32, Elena:
“It is not justifying rape with the rape of the world that people can move away from raping each other, it’s when people realize the dignity of the being within themselves and others that they are no longer willing to move a hand against each other.”
Well said. Thank you.

41. Jomo Piñata - December 8, 2008

Why don’t you give it try and see how many people you attract and for how long.

Lacuna is referring to the principle of “social proof.” Read about social proof here:

http://www.media-studies.ca/articles/influence_ch4.htm

42. elena - December 8, 2008

Thanks Whalerider and Draco for your posts.

Those descriptions of Robert are no different to what Robert does at each meeting at the Galleria so Daily Cardiac, we don’t need to be at the Oregon House Store to verify the treatment. Only that at the galleria, while he puts on the act of “Old Little Lady to my DARLINGS”, it is the conditions of the meeting that take dignity away from the participants by imposing on them the practice of only listening to the wolf in sheep’s clothing. It is Robert’s pretense that he is the only person divine enough to SPEAK and to be listened to what is so denigrating about any of his events.

With this practice he consumes the subtle energies of the participants reinforcing their sense of worthlessness with every event. They are worthy only of listening and obeying.

He is a vampire. It is not blood what he sucks on but people’s being. How much more evil do you want him?

Anyone with similar behavior in no matter what position of authority is doing exactly the same thing. Authority is the belief that one has more being than others on any subject. Imposed authority is abuse of power. Respect for those who do actually have more being in some subjects than others is a form of gratitude. The dialogue amongst people sharing being and knowledge is “life.” The lack of that dialogue is what makes the Fellowship a retrograde environment conducive to idolatry, fascism and decadence where every form of abuse that we have witnessed in the Fellowship is easy to develop.

43. lauralupa - December 8, 2008

Song of the siren

Come to me, let me transform you
let me nourish your wildest dreams
let me paint you golden and pink
You’ll feel different, fortunate, special
and secure in the shade of my domain
Let me tell you all you need to know:
I will teach you how to hide yourself,
how to estinguish all unpleasant doubt,
how to block all worries and concerns
You’ll inhabit my private separate world:
here everything has hidden secret meanings
I know the way out of the labyrinth,
I hold the keys, and I am the only one
I will taste your body and nibble on your soul
you never have to think, I’m the one in control:
my protégé, my project, my part-time lover
let me be your master, your dominatrix
I will make you come and I will let you go
while I reassure you of my undying love
I give the rules – I do not play by the rules
You’ll see my craving for the world of pleasure
and I will teach you I am beyond the flesh
You’ll be confused, you’ll be bewildered
and I’ll remind you how good it is for you
I will erase your family, your painful history
and I make you a gift you of a brand new one
with no visible wounds, no difficult intimacy
I will tie you with golden chains to my throne
and tell you stories about how nice it is to fly
I’ll keep you occupied and feed you constantly,
your vanity and fear will hold you to me dear
You’ll hear my vague, strange and wondrous tales
and like a child you will desire to believe them
I’ll deny what’s obvious and you will do it to
my lies are sugary, they taste better than truth
I’ll turn you into a mutant, a creature in transit
not of this world and not ready for the next
and who else but me can guide you to the gate?

let me tell you how much I love you
listen to how special and great I am
together we make the perfect couple
the heartless master and his soulless friend

44. nigel harris price - December 8, 2008

“Joy is the creative seed, the starting point, the initial spark, the holding of which makes any work and consequent suffering worthwhile and will lead so the Self, through the Soul”…..Nigel (December 2008)

45. fofblogmoderator - December 8, 2008

22, 23, 30, 35 & 41 are newly moderated

46. lauralupa - December 8, 2008

Thanks draco #30 for doing this.

Thanks also to all the other contributors, and especially Elena for her continuous presence and committment.

Since we are getting close to that festive time of year, it would be lovely for all those who have benefited from this discussion to exchange gifts – sharing music, poems, suggestions, ideas, whatever brings pleasure, help and inspiration to your cult-free life…

here’s one from me – this has been a good year for female singer-songwriters, and I’d like you to meet some of these unique and talented women.
Laura Marling is only 18 and seems wise beyond her years.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=djChY6Ol9ig&feature=channelE

47. whalerider - December 8, 2008

The Truth is right before our very eyes.

I read this in today’s newspaper:

“Bush reflected on the war in a wide-ranging television interview last week, saying the biggest regret of his presidency regarding the extent of Hussein’s threat to the United States was the “intelligence failure.””

“Intelligence failure”…interesting choice of words.

What was Burton’s excuse?

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

Thanks to all who shared their first-hand impressions of Burton. Those impressions are invaluable and call louder than an overly scripted loon.

The account of Burton rubbing the hand of the unfortunate Russian follower on Burton’s inner thigh during a “teaching event” made me want to puke. That is so sleazy!

Enough is enough. Burton is ill and needs to be contained.

If regret eats the soul as Daily Cardiac claims, then spare yourself the regret of remaining slient and not standing up while Burton continues to harm people through the very organization that you and I help build and support.

It is a law that everything eventually turns into is opposite and it is up to us “in the know” to be in our power or be eaten alive by that which once sustained us.

The next stage of your evolution requires that you listen to your conscience or you will lose it, even if it means to confront Burton’s authority and “divine” status. He is a false prophet and his track record proves it.

Let your conscience be your guide! Do whatever you can to take this debate into the public sphere.

I am deeply grateful to Elena for having the courage to publicly protest and then have to appear in court. And thank you Ames for supporting her.

Let’s begin tightening Burton’s leash in Europe. I assume the FOF still has a footprint in France, do they not?

Would someone please translate the petition into French and forward it to the proper authorities in France? There are anti-cult laws there. Fighting that in French court will drain some of the FOF financial resources, weaken the Ivory Tower, and bring the immoral activites of Burton and the FOF, Inc. more into the daylight.

48. nigel harris price - December 8, 2008

46 whalerider

I would greatly appreciate, and certainly support with my own experiences, your descriptions of how you think REB is ‘ill’. Is that in the sense that he needs help (or is it asking too much of the situation that he can be brought into compos mentis) or is it, as you mentioned, that he needs constraining (I think you used the word ‘contained’). I would, specifically, appreciate your views on how his sexual ‘functions’ are controlled by his disorder. I may be able to shed some light here……Nigel.

49. another name - December 8, 2008

Dear Nigel and others

Study up, on the following article and let me know if you know of a CURE. I hope, wish and pray.

PAMELA KULBARSH, RN
Crisis Intervention Contributor
Officer.com

There is no actual diagnosis of psychopathy in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV), but there is one for an antisocial personality disorder (ASP). All psychopaths are antisocial personalities, but not all antisocial personalities are psychopaths. Experts estimate that 3% of men and 1% of women have ASP, while only 1% of the population is truly psychopathic. Antisocial personalities can be summed up by their lack of regard for the moral and/or legal standards of society, as well as an inability to follow rules or have meaningful relationships with others. Psychopaths up the ante significantly.

Law enforcement officers interact with psychopaths routinely. Think you can spot one? Think again. They are inevitably more intelligent than your average bad guy. Frequently nothing noteworthy stands out about them, until they are stopped for a crime or a field interview. Even then, psychopaths are hard to identify. The less intelligent are already incarcerated or on parole/probation. The most intelligent have not been caught, and in reality may never be apprehended (for example, the Zodiac Killer). In general, psychopaths aren’t the product of broken homes or the casualties of a materialistic society. There is no one to blame for their behaviors except themselves. Their motivation is power, gratification, personal gain, and survival. Their mindset is manipulation, deception, and evil. Their level of malice is high to very high, even off the charts when they are held accountable. This is what makes the psychopath so dangerous for law enforcement officers.

Common psychopathological traits include the following: glib and superficial charm; grandiose sense of self-worth; need for stimulation; pathological lying; cunning and manipulativeness; lack of remorse or guilt; shallow affect; callousness and lack of empathy; parasitic lifestyle; poor behavioral controls; promiscuous sexual behavior; early behavior problems; lack of realistic, long-term goals; impulsivity; irresponsibility; failure to accept responsibility for own actions; many short-term marital relationships; juvenile delinquency; revocation of conditional release; and criminal versatility. Psychopaths are the worse kinds of narcissists. They not only disregard society and social cues, they carry this disdain for rules to the extreme, calculating and scheming ruthlessly. They are notoriously callous career criminals. They enjoy what they do. The bottom line is that psychopaths are deliberately, energetically, joyfully evil.

Psychopathy involves poor emotional intelligence and the genuine lack of conscience. The psychopath rarely remains attached to anyone or anything. Their lifestyle is consistently predatory; they feel little or no regret or remorse for their behaviors. Psychopaths do need relationships; however, they view people as barriers to their fundamental needs. Relationships are easily and frequently eliminated. Others are viewed in terms of how they can be used to increase the psychopath’s self-esteem or simply for stimulation. Most fundamentally, psychopaths value others in terms of their material value. They are stalkers, rapists, perpetrators of domestic violence, deviant sexual crimes, and they are the serial killers. There are a high number of corporate psychopaths. Psychopaths are unable (or unwilling) to control their impulses or to delay gratification. They use rage to control and manipulate others into submission. Many of them are sadistic; taking true pleasure in inflicting physical, emotional and financial harm to their victims. Not all psychopaths are law-breakers. However, all psychopaths do engage in antisocial acts such as lying, manipulation, aggression, and cruelty.

There are several unique subtypes of psychopaths. Primary psychopaths can frequently control antisocial impulses to suit their own purposes. However, they are simply incapable of experiencing genuine emotions. They simply do not respond to punishment or apprehension. The second subtype is the charismatic psychopath. These individuals are charming, attractive, and irresistible pathological liars. This type of psychopath is the fast-talker, the manipulator and the persuader. Basically, they can talk people out of almost everything, including their own lives (religious cult leaders frequently fall in this category). The next, and most dangerous subtype, is the distempered psychopath. They are most likely to be aggressive and violent, frequently flying into rages. Distempered psychopaths are predominantly males with strong sexual drives and obsessions (often deviant), cravings for excitement, and addictions. An example of this subtype is the Boston Strangler.

The facts and statistics related to psychopathy are disturbing at best. Psychopaths are seven times more likely than other criminals to commit stranger murders, and twice as likely to commit other stranger crimes. Their one year general crime recidivism rate is three times more likely than other criminals; it is four times more likely for violent crimes. It is estimated that between 15-25% of all prisoners are psychopaths (remember, only 1% of the population have psychopathological characteristics). Psychopathy characteristics are seen in childhood. The age of onset for children with high psychopathy is 12.1 years for violent crimes, and 9.3 for nonviolent crimes. The good news is that about half of all psychopaths reduce criminal activity by the age of 35-40.

Law Enforcement’s Interaction with the Psychopath

FBI studies indicate that over 80% of officers killed in the line of duty were killed by individuals with personality disorders. While 56% percent of these killers had an antisocial personality disorder; 44% had psychopathology characteristics. 23% were killed by individuals with a dependent personality disorder.

Remember, you cannot spot a psychopath. When you encounter one, they will at first seem overly cooperative and friendly towards you. Meanwhile, they are sizing you up, noting every detail; your physical, intellectual and moral capabilities, while trying to lull you into a false sense of security. They may invade your personal space just to see how you react.

Psychopaths are evasive when you make contact. They will attempt to control the conversation. Once they have a sense on what kind of person you are, they will attempt to manipulate you; they are highly skilled in this regard. When confronted they will deny any involvement in illegal activities, pointing the finger towards someone else. If that doesn’t work, Plan B is to rationalize the crime and offer their own interpretations of the laws that you believe were violated. Although they are well versed in the laws of society, they truly don’t believe these laws apply to them. They have absolutely no remorse for the crimes they have committed against others, and will only express regret as a way to manipulate an officer in hopes that the justice system will go easier on them. Fundamentally, psychopaths represent the greatest danger to officer safety. If an arrest is imminent, and the psychopath believes he can get away with violence, he will resort to it. This can be an instantaneous reaction, often catching the law enforcement officer off guard.

Psychopaths are indifferent to the truth, they are pathologic liars. At best, as an officer, you will get half truths in an attempt to confuse and manipulate you into casting doubt on their involvement. They will evade your questions, claim forgetfulness, and provide you with vague and inconsistent answers about their past. Even when cornered, the psychopath will offer excuses and apologies, and then simply return to his pathologic lying.

Treatment

There is no cure for psychopathology, no medications. Therapy is inevitably counterproductive. Psychopaths forced into counseling frequently get worse as they learn how to use psychology to manipulate the world and the people around them even more. Traditional therapy may in fact cause the psychopath to offend more often, with more malice, and sooner than the psychopath who does not receive treatment. For the most heinous psychopaths, society’s treatment of choice is either a life sentence or the death penalty, as was the case for some of the most prolific cases: John Wayne Gacy, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Edmund Kemper, Richard Ramirez, Dr. Harold Shipman, and Aileen Wuornos.

50. elena - December 8, 2008

Draco, 30

THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH FOR YOUR CAREFUL ATTENTION TO THIS SUBJECT. That is work. There is already enough material on the blog on no matter what issue to understand what we are dealing with if anyone of us is as willing as Draco to piece it together and let it be seen once again by all.

Thank you again.

51. fofblogmoderator - December 8, 2008

46 is newly moderated

52. up with which I will not put - December 8, 2008

25. Daily Cardiac – December 8, 2008

“Why don’t you give it try and see how many people you attract and for how long.”

Well, if your point is that Robber The Burnt One is somehow a step above the fray because he attracts many followers for a long time, the truth is that he’s really not even average when it comes to sheer numbers. Few people are impressed the FOF enough to fall for it. There are numerous other cults with thousands of members and with much larger retention rates — and therefore much more clever about marketing their product and attracting gullible followers. If it’s about “how many people you attract”, as you imply, then Burton is pretty pathetic.

Besides, aren’t the low numbers and low retention rate simply proof that the FOF is too challenging for Life People? I thought it wasn’t about “how many people you attract and for how long.” I thought it wasn’t about popularity. But now it is? Bummer, because the vast majority of people see the FOF for what it is right away… insane.

53. up with which I will not put - December 8, 2008

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/etc/script.html

From “The Persuaders”:

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: Ad strategist Douglas Atkin, an expert on the relationship between consumers and brands, says he had a eureka moment one night during a focus group.

DOUGLAS ATKIN: I was in a research facility watching eight people rhapsodize about a sneaker. And I thought, “Where is this coming from? This is, at the end of the day, a piece of footwear.” But the terms they were using were evangelical. So I thought, if these people are expressing cult-like devotion, then why not study cults? Why not study the original? Find out why people join cults and apply that knowledge to brands.

[FALUN GONG MEMBER: I’m loyal to this practice because it’s done so much for me.]

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: If Atkin could find what pushed a person from mere fan to devoted disciple, perhaps he could market that knowledge… So he compared dozens of groups he considered cults with so called “cult brands,” from Hare Krishna to Harley Davidson– –from Falun Gong to Mac.

DOUGLAS ATKIN: And the conclusion was this, is that people, whether they’re joining a cult or joining a brand, do so for exactly the same reasons. They need to belong, and they want to make meaning. We need to figure out what the world is all about, and we need the company of others. It’s simply that.

54. whalerider - December 8, 2008

Nigel:
I am not in a position to answer your question at present….but…would you care to make the conscious effort with me to start a cult in which we can lure and manipulate young, pretty lesbians into having heterosexual intercourse with us all night? Wouldn’t that be divine?

We’ll just claim that we are female goddesses in male bodies!

We’ll promise them that we can get them into heaven only if they do what we tell them and not listen to anyone else.

We’ll get a book of quotes, memorize them and then use other people’s sayings to make us seem important.

And despite any psychological damage having straight sex with us does to them, we’ll convince them it is for their own good by making them endlessly repeat a hypnotic auto-suggestion that makes them docile, internally preoccupied and subservient to our wishes.

We’ll also make a rule that nobody can express any negativity or criticism back at us or at each other. In fact, we’ll make a ‘no gossip’ rule among all the members, too, so we can train them not to say anything bad about us at all. It works wonders!

We’ll buy some property out in the boonies where nobody can stick their noses into our business. We’ll put a fence around the place and have a front gate with a 24 hour guard and cameras to watch everyone coming and going. That should make us look official enough for the locals.

We’ll keep everyone busy working long hours by telling them the end of the world and other bad stuff is coming very soon. Hey, it says so in the Bible anyway.

We’ll host dinners where we get everyone drunk. We’ll show them our third eye which they can’t really see and tell them that angels are flying around the room. We won’t allow any one else to talk during dinner, or finish all their food even if they are starving, or ask for second servings, or even show their teeth when they smile, and if they do, they get the boot out the door.

If any of our bitches get pregnant we’ll just make them get abortions. They can ditch their test tube babies, too, if they have any; we’ll tell them it’s “mechanical” to have children. There is never a good time to have kids, and they cost too much. Why should we have to cut back on our expenses? Kids ask too many questions, anyway.

If our concubines start shacking up with anyone else, we’ll kick their women out or arrange to make them have group sex with others without telling their partners. That will teach them to toe the line.

BTW, I really enjoy getting pissed on, don’t you? Maybe we can get ourselves some Viagra and have a contest over how many women we can fuck in one night? Now that would create some memory and some higher states, wouldn’t it? My birthday is coming up, you know.

Anyone else who joins we’ll make them pay lots of money to be around us, so they will spend most of their time working their asses off to pay the high fees. That will give us free reign to travel the world flashing money and spending the funds we collect looking for more exotic lesbians in other countries who are in dire straits and who might want join our cult and move to America. I know, we can dangle a green card in front of our dicks! Cool!

I like to travel, don’t you? Traveling a lot will allow us not to spend too much time with the drones who support us so they don’t catch on what we are up to.

Just to keep the drones happy, we’ll let them have as much sex with anyone they like and encourage them to drink alcohol or take anti-depressants if they need to. Who gives a fuck what they do as long as they pay the cult fees and not ask any embarassing questions.

We’ll just smile a lot and quote others, and if anyone tries to question us, we’ll just them that it’s our ‘crazy wisdom’ at work and if they don’t like it they are free to leave and be doomed to rot in hell or the on moon with everyone else that isn’t part of our cult. Hey, it will be their loss, not ours.

And here’s the best part, we’ll call it: the Church Using Nefarious Titillation…or simply, CUNT.

Are you with me?

Lauralupa, nice poem! We like it! Hey, I have a “job” for you..wink, wink, he, he, he…wanna join our cult, er, I mean, church?

55. elena - December 8, 2008

Thanks Another Name for this text. Please allow me to make some parallels where Robert or Girard are faithful pictures of this phenomenon.

PAMELA KULBARSH, RN
Crisis Intervention Contributor
Officer.com

…summed up by their lack of regard for the moral and/or legal standards of society, as well as an inability to follow rules or have meaningful relationships with others. Psychopaths up the ante significantly.

Robert’s inability to have meaningful relationships is obvious to all by now. In the four years I was with Girard, he’d meet with only one other person every two weeks for lunch. When this member left the Fellowship he stopped communicating with him. I was not a meaningful enough relationship to Girard for him to protect me in any situation whether it was within the social environment of the Fellowship or the personal environment of my well being including my health. If you can understand that and at the same time understand that I know he loved me with the half of him that tried to love, that is, that he did his best, you can better understand a hasnamuss. If you can understand that I was only an object, a decoration that could be discarded like any other of his wives, relatives or friends, you can see the psychopath.

Both Robert nor Girard have lost the connection with “moral or legal standards of society” but much worse than that, they’ve lost the connection with humanity with all our successes and failures. Their “world apart” is as dangerous to themselves as to the people around them.

“They are inevitably more intelligent than your average bad guy. Frequently nothing noteworthy stands out about them, until they are stopped for a crime or a field interview. Even then, psychopaths are hard to identify. The most intelligent have not been caught, and in reality may never be apprehended (for example, the Zodiac Killer). In general, psychopaths aren’t the product of broken homes or the casualties of a materialistic society. There is no one to blame for their behaviours except themselves.”

I personally don’t agree with this last statements. A serious study of both Robert and Girard would reveal that they have only taken ideas from what they experienced in their lives. The most difficult aspect of both is that they sincerely believe they are doing it for the well being of others, at least in the half of the personality that needs to believe that for the other half to get away with doing what it does. These people have divided into two almost perfect personalities who do not know each other.

The weakness in this writer “There is no one to blame for their behaviours except themselves.” Is that she’s looking for blame and blame will never solve anything. It’s taking responsibility for these people what can help “them” and society.

“Their motivation is power, gratification, personal gain, and survival. Their mindset is manipulation, deception, and evil. Their level of malice is high to very high, even off the charts when they are held accountable. This is what makes the psychopath so dangerous for law enforcement officers.”

I also don’t agree with that statement. Evil is not a real force in the Universe. There is no legitimate source of evil and no one is evil “per se”. Evil is a process, not a reality.
The motivation behind these people is belonging, being a part of the whole, like everybody else’s. They simply lost track of themselves at some point and the society within which they were functioning encouraged them to continue down that path. If anyone had checked Robert or Girard in good time, neither one of them would have developed such a severe condition of abuse of power. All dictators, industrials, politicians and even classroom teachers have the same potential and often make equally abusive use of it. It is the people around them that allow them to get that far. The false structures of authority based on money and power that live within the general population of the world today is what promotes the development of such individuals in big and small areas of society. (Mr. Bush and his crimes are a lot more dangerous than Robert Burton’s rapes but the fact that Mr. Bush invades and kills hundreds of innocent people is not perceived as the crime it is by the general population in power in the world. The rest of us watch like idiots thinking we cannot do anything about it because we are too afraid to even sign a petition to investigate a cult. The general population of the world has been as disempowered as members of the Fellowship were disempowered both by religion and economic power.) So sorry for the deviation.

56. lauralupa - December 8, 2008

whalerider, thanks for the great post

…and thanks for the offer, but I’ll have to pass. Since I am not a lesbian, I would certainlybe treated as second class citizen in your cult. Been there, done that. At present I am only interested in fringe groups led by young and handsome oversexed heterosexual male teachers with a fetish for petite Mediterranean middle aged ladies. if you are aware of any such congregation, just let me know…

57. elena - December 8, 2008

“Common psychopathological traits include the following: glib and superficial charm; grandiose sense of self-worth; need for stimulation; pathological lying; cunning and manipulativeness; lack of remorse or guilt; shallow affect; callousness and lack of empathy; parasitic lifestyle; poor behavioral controls; promiscuous sexual behaviour; early behavior problems; lack of realistic, long-term goals; impulsivity; irresponsibility; failure to accept responsibility for own actions; many short-term marital relationships; juvenile delinquency; revocation of conditional release; and criminal versatility. Psychopaths are the worse kinds of narcissists. They not only disregard society and social cues, they carry this disdain for rules to the extreme, calculating and scheming ruthlessly. They are notoriously callous career criminals. They enjoy what they do.”

We can see all of these characteristics in both Robert and Girard. It’s worth noting that they “enjoy what they do” but their joy is in the belief that they are doing something of value, like any other person. The half that has “sacrificed himself for the well being of others” does not know the half that is performing criminal acts on others. This is part of the difference with other kinds of criminals. Girard’s and Robert’s lives are very different and although there are similarities in the psychopathic behaviour they both practice, they are also very different. To begin with, Girard doesn’t have the charm but he’s got the logic that Robert doesn’t have and needs for it to be credible to the members. Without the Girard’s of the Fellowship, Robert would not have gone anywhere.

“The bottom line is that psychopaths are deliberately, energetically, joyfully evil.

Psychopathy involves poor emotional intelligence and the genuine lack of conscience. The psychopath rarely remains attached to anyone or anything. Their lifestyle is consistently predatory; they feel little or no regret or remorse for their behaviors. Psychopaths do need relationships; however, they view people as barriers to their fundamental needs. Relationships are easily and frequently eliminated. Others are viewed in terms of how they can be used to increase the psychopath’s self-esteem or simply for stimulation. Most fundamentally, psychopaths value others in terms of their material value. They are stalkers, rapists, perpetrators of domestic violence, deviant sexual crimes, and they are the serial killers. There are a high number of corporate psychopaths. Psychopaths are unable (or unwilling) to control their impulses or to delay gratification. They use rage to control and manipulate others into submission. Many of them are sadistic; taking true pleasure in inflicting physical, emotional and financial harm to their victims. Not all psychopaths are law-breakers. However, all psychopaths do engage in antisocial acts such as lying, manipulation, aggression, and cruelty.

There are several unique subtypes of psychopaths. Primary psychopaths can frequently control antisocial impulses to suit their own purposes. However, they are simply incapable of experiencing genuine emotions. They simply do not respond to punishment or apprehension. The second subtype is the charismatic psychopath. These individuals are charming, attractive, and irresistible pathological liars. This type of psychopath is the fast-talker, the manipulator and the persuader. Basically, they can talk people out of almost everything, including their own lives (religious cult leaders frequently fall in this category). The next, and most dangerous subtype, is the distempered psychopath. They are most likely to be aggressive and violent, frequently flying into rages. Distempered psychopaths are predominantly males with strong sexual drives and obsessions (often deviant), cravings for excitement, and addictions.”

Well, both Robert and Girard have plenty of all of these. It truly is fascinating to see all of these things expressed so clearly about them and contrast them with all that gold alchemy makeup that we thought made them different. In the alchemy of the Fellowship, Robert externalized his charm. In the structure of the Fellowship, Girard externalized his controlled logic.

“Psychopathy characteristics are seen in childhood. The age of onset for children with high psychopathy is 12.1 years for violent crimes, and 9.3 for nonviolent crimes. The good news is that about half of all psychopaths reduce criminal activity by the age of 35-40.”

I certainly don’t believe Girard committed any such crimes as a child but he did share with me the fact that he was extremely violent at school and with his brother. He was always in a fight. Then we have his habit to become so terribly upset about the littlest things that he’ll start violently hitting himself on the head as if he could not feel the pain. This was already happening long before the stroke. He could get just as violent with me but he tried very successfully not to after six months and that is why we continued in the relationship.

“Law Enforcement’s Interaction with the Psychopath

FBI studies indicate that over 80% of officers killed in the line of duty were killed by individuals with personality disorders. While 56% percent of these killers had an antisocial personality disorder; 44% had psychopathology characteristics. 23% were killed by individuals with a dependent personality disorder.

Remember, you cannot spot a psychopath. When you encounter one, they will at first seem overly cooperative and friendly towards you. Meanwhile, they are sizing you up, noting every detail; your physical, intellectual and moral capabilities, while trying to lull you into a false sense of security. They may invade your personal space just to see how you react.”

You cannot see any of these characteristics in Girard but I think they are more clear in Robert. Girard is essentially a very “fearful” social character without charm. He cannot extend himself out and has relied on the “Girard role” to line up the members so that he can then expand his resourceful logic. He relies on the position of power to use his power while Robert relies on his charm to affirm his position and when that doesn’t work, “off with your heads.”

“Psychopaths are evasive when you make contact. They will attempt to control the conversation. Once they have a sense on what kind of person you are, they will attempt to manipulate you; they are highly skilled in this regard.”

Nothing could describe more accurately either one of them.

“When confronted they will deny any involvement in illegal activities, pointing the finger towards someone else. If that doesn’t work, Plan B is to rationalize the crime and offer their own interpretations of the laws that you believe were violated. Although they are well versed in the laws of society, they truly don’t believe these laws apply to them. They have absolutely no remorse for the crimes they have committed against others, and will only express regret as a way to manipulate an officer in hopes that the justice system will go easier on them. Fundamentally, psychopaths represent the greatest danger to officer safety. If an arrest is imminent, and the psychopath believes he can get away with violence, he will resort to it. This can be an instantaneous reaction, often catching the law enforcement officer off guard.

Psychopaths are indifferent to the truth, they are pathologic liars. At best, as an officer, you will get half truths in an attempt to confuse and manipulate you into casting doubt on their involvement. They will evade your questions, claim forgetfulness, and provide you with vague and inconsistent answers about their past. Even when cornered, the psychopath will offer excuses and apologies, and then simply return to his pathologic lying.

Treatment

There is no cure for psychopathology, no medications. Therapy is inevitably counterproductive. Psychopaths forced into counseling frequently get worse as they learn how to use psychology to manipulate the world and the people around them even more. Traditional therapy may in fact cause the psychopath to offend more often, with more malice, and sooner than the psychopath who does not receive treatment. For the most heinous psychopaths, society’s treatment of choice is either a life sentence or the death penalty, as was the case for some of the most prolific cases: John Wayne Gacy, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Edmund Kemper, Richard Ramirez, Dr. Harold Shipman, and Aileen Wuornos.”

I do not agree with this last statement or rather, I agree that with the present knowledge and conditions of our society we do not know how to help people in these conditions but to me they have simply crystallized in a form that worked and it worked because those around them bought it. Put them in isolation for some time, then have them work with others, then in isolation for more time, then work with others. Work in their sexuality so that they accept it. Neither Robert nor Girard accept their homosexuality or heterosexuality. They are both equally repressed. Help Robert with mature homosexuals who can accept their sexuality and Girard with mature heterosexuals who can accept the beauty of sex as an expression of love. Shame is behind a lot of the behaviour of these extremely talented individuals. They cannot let themselves “BE” because they have condemned themselves as shameful, so they took on another personality.

58. elena - December 8, 2008

Thanks Ellen, Laura and Whalerider for your acknowledgement. It feels good to experience your appreciation.

Thanks all for your posts, what a good day! Sorry mine are so long but if you take the repetition out, it’ll be a little shorter!

59. dragon - December 8, 2008

30. Draco – December 8, 2008

Thank you Draco for your informations.

Elena, thank you for presence and for your fiery patience, your posts are NEVER “so” long. They are right!

Lauralupa, thank you for the joy, the poems, the links…..

Thank you to ALL, it is a BLOG filled with memories, emotions, hope, informations and caritas.

60. harryhindsight - December 8, 2008

Whalerider,

I am a lesbian in a man’s body.
Will you take me as I am?

61. up with which I will not put - December 9, 2008

57. Elena.

psychopathology. I doubt this word is ever used in the FOF. Imagine if it were, though.

Leader: “We will now begin the meeting… The topic of today’s meeting is psychopathology and pathological lying in religious organizations and how to separate from this mechanical manifestation. This topic — psychopathology — is of course a very uncomfortable topic in the School. Other topics are also uncomfortable topics, such as GREED, SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION, NAIVETE on the part of students in regard to our Teacher, poor HOUSEHOLDER in relation to our careers and financial well-being, TRAMP as it relates to the use of School funds, and BUFFERS in relation to obvious truths about the sexual shenanigans of our Teacher. But today, our focus is psychopathology, and particularly pathological lying… Are there any angles? …”

62. elena - December 9, 2008

Up with..!

Yes, but they’ve heard of the possibility of developing a Hasnamouss with the wrong use of the System. They cannot deny the potential of that. If we keep exploring and exposing them, most of them will get out.

I spoke with Girard recently and he’s not well. He became as aggressive as in his worst times in seconds. The pressure is obviously taking its toll. He had not wanted to acknowledge there was anything wrong since I left. Hopefully they’ll look for help before they crash.

63. fofblogmoderator - December 9, 2008

61 is newly moderated

64. whalerider - December 9, 2008

harryhindsight:
Since your vision is always 20/20 you will undoubtedly be of use to me in my groupie group called the Church Using Nefarious Titillation (hereto referred as C.U.N.T.) to re-write my prophecy blunders as divine humbling events or as I see fit to support my cause.

Please duct tape your mouth shut while you are in my divine presence.

I must first inform you that you are in fact not good enough as you are, you have a lot of hard work ahead of you, but since you have a high paying job and a savings account, I will allow you to join if you promise to adore me and help bring all your lesbian friends into our fold. I haven’t had any pussy in several hours and have a craving for a tuna fish sandwich.

I must also inform you that only women will awaken in my church and since you are only a lesbian in a man’s body, you are presently only in your third or fourth lifetime this go round. But keep trying! There is always next lifetime, dearest.

Oh and if you leave my church you will lose all possibilities of ever evolving again, just so you know.

Of course, you will get honorable mention for your lifetime of donations, achievements and super efforts, but don’t expect me to name anything after you, unless you build a new house on the adjacent land that is for sale where I can host some dinner parties at your expense which I will charge followers for…that you may name that after yourself, if you wish.

BTW, this month I’d like to travel to the Island of Lesbos in Greece to oversee our online purchase of an overpriced replica of Venus De Milo for my backyard, in a conscious effort to attract more lesbian concubines and to remind me of their lovely body parts. Mama Mia! It creates such divine presence for me every time I see a brand new pair of tits!

So would you be so kind as to hit the paypal button and make your first leeching payment? Any credit card is accepted and 30% of your monthly income will suffice, unless you’d prefer to be burned on the sun with the rest of humanity?

The moon is a divine female symbol and must be worshiped, therefore the main compound of C.U.N.T. (where for slave wages you will construct a house for me and my harem that needs to be finished yesterday) will be called…Diana Luna.

If you will excuse me, I have a plane to catch. Gump’s is having a sale.

65. Jomo Piñata - December 9, 2008

Leeching payments. Making my beak move. Liver, kidney, whatever. Choke in 1998! Awk!

66. Jomo Piñata - December 9, 2008

Ouija bingo. 5, 15, 16 23 47. The bonus number is 8! Sexually transmitted disease. Cuff links! Awk!

67. Jomo Piñata - December 9, 2008

Barely above the level of animals. Awk! Ming furniture makes me homesick. This underwear has not been properly ironed. Girard will now be called Snoopy. Awk!

68. whalerider - December 9, 2008

Ok, Ok, Jomo, even though you, too are probably only a lesbian in a male’s body floundering in your third lifetime, you can be follower of C.U.N.T., if you want to get in on the action. I am not too picky when it comes to drones, as long as there are enough young lesbian females on deck to keep me preoccupied. A little lipstick on that beak of yours and you’ll clean up just fine.

Every cult needs a good parrot. Hell, I’ll even make you second in command.

Tell everyone a golden eagle with wings spread hovered over the dinner table last night and whispered in my third ear that in order to get into heaven, anytime you see the numbers 5, 15, 16, 23, and 47 you are to close your eyes, tap your toes together three times, feel eternally grateful, and repeat quietly in your mind the following 30 times:

There’s no place like Om just bring in the money
There’s no place like Om just bring in the money
There’s no place like Om just bring in the money
There’s no place like Om just bring in the money, etc.

…except while driving a car, in which case no matter what you are to speed up and proudly pass the car ahead of you, for you are way better than them, you are a C.U.N.T. member.

BTW, did I mention the sky is falling! Four pubic hairs were stuck in my teeth when I woke up this morning, it must be a sign. So we (I mean you) need to get out there and recruit some more tail to wag the dog! It’s already almost noon and I am getting twitchy in my neck, which means I need a place to bury my bone. Any hoe will do in a pinch, just hire someone. (I know, it ain’t easy bein’ a pimp. Just tap your toes and transform it.)

Oh, and we need to start the selection process for the nude female model of that new mural I want to have painted weeknights on my bedroom ceiling…let them know I am going be an intimate part of the work process, too, so make sure you inform the artist she has to wear a skirt and can’t wear any underwear while she paints either. That should create some divine memory for all involved!

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to do someone in private pastoral counseling. I already feel drained!

69. Daily Cardiac - December 9, 2008

Draco: Last page:

“And what makes it Ad Hominem apart from you asserting that it is?”

For starters about 25,000 posts on this blog with not one ex member agreeing in principle with what any FoF supporter has said.

It’s highly unlikely all posts by ex members have been truthful while all posts by current members have been essentially false. I’m no statistician but it seems like that would defy all laws of average/probability.

If I am understanding you correctly you are saying that I have no right or authority to suggest you are succumbing to the Ad Hominem argument, but you have every right to say I am wrong for suggesting it. Is that how it goes?

Draco – “All I know of you is what you write in your posts and that you are a Fellowship member.”

That is all you need to know in order to disagree with me.

Draco – “I deconstruct your arguments because your arguments depend on the structure that you give them.”

This is true for everyone and to point this out about me only is itself a prime example of a viewpoint laced with Ad Hominem.

DC – “If anyone is being spurious it’s you. You refuse to acknowledge that your views are at best just as subjective as mine.”

Draco – “This is just a red herring. You use the notion of subjectivity as a bludgeon to flatten other people’s point of view.”

I use it to point out that your words are not true because you say they are and mine are not false because you say they are. The inability to admit that you, as an individual, do not possess or determine what is true in an objective sense is a dimention of vanity, or in life gargon, is narcissistic.

Draco – “Your posts indicate that you do not see us all as equally subjective (an approach that is difficult for anyone to maintain), but that your FOF membership gives you an outlook that is absolutely superior to that of ex-members–just like Robert tells you.”

I am expressing my understanding about RB and the FoF as honestly and forthrightly as you present your understandings. If anything I say threatens your viewpoint or beliefs you should investigate further. If you are at peace with your inner beliefs nothing I or anyone else says should affect you very much.

Regarding post 30:

Abortion is legal in most developed countries in the world. If you are trying to reflect Robert’s suggesting to students to have an abortion as a character flaw you might have a hard time justifying the fact that millions of abortions are carried out daily.

I haven’t asked Robert his views on abortion; but personally I don’t believe a soul inhabits a fetus when it is in the developmental stage where abortion is an option. That’s just my personal belief.

I’m happy for you that you have a healthy child that is a treasure to you. It’s obvious it was your fate to have your child. I’m also sure Robert had his own valid reasons to tell your husband what he told him.

Regarding your comments that my mantra is “I don’t believe it” or “So what”, all I can say is you’ve been misreading my posts. What I’ve said is even if everything said about him is true (which is highly unlikely), it would not disqualify him from being an enlightened being.

Enlightened beings don’t conform to ordinary morality. Ordinary people conform to ordinary morality. I’ve also said that while people have been consumed with trying to get RB to conform to their own standards they have missed much bigger truths that have come from him. But Truth comes with a payment; it is not given for nothing.

70. Across the River - December 9, 2008

It’s good to see the blog continue through all the changes even as voices come and go. Greetings to those here on page 59.

***********
Jomo Pinata
Priceless!…..Never say die.

***********
Nigel, I hope you’re recovering well.

***********
And you, too, Whalerider. I wonder how many faces from Robert’s past would have to surface to turn that slack jaw into anything resembling an expression of human compassion or remorse. He sees license plates, not people. You nail the gestalt of his cause in recent posts.

***********
30
Draco

Thank you very much for recovering and posting those stories.

***********
And DC, quit trifling. Get serious. Can’t you see you’re becoming more feeble by the day in that fairyland?

***********
Panorea

If you feel that Robert has entitled himself to a rape factory among other excesses through our complicity in protecting the “special, hidden nature of a real school” and wish to join others to bring that fallacy into the light of day, the petition is one way. It will be sent to whatever agencies and news sources might be interested in scrutinizing the facts.

***********
Elena, thank you for your perseverance.

***********
Lauralupa, here’s a little gift for you and all:

***********
Good to hear the voices of another name, up with which i will not put, dragon, Mick Danger, WonderingWhosWatching, Ellen, Opus 111, harryhindsight, Miguel, peter…..

***********
And always a thank you to you, fofblogmoderator steve.

**********

71. lauralupa - December 9, 2008

DC, you are priceless

“Regarding your comments that my mantra is “I don’t believe it” or “So what”, all I can say is you’ve been misreading my posts. What I’ve said is even if everything said about him is true (which is highly unlikely) = I don’t believe it, it would not disqualify him from being an enlightened being = So what.”

“Enlightened beings don’t conform to ordinary morality. Ordinary people conform to ordinary morality. I’ve also said that while people have been consumed with trying to get RB to conform to their own standards they have missed much bigger truths that have come from him”

I’m no statistician either but it seems to me that your gullibility defies all laws of average/probability.

72. Daily Cardiac - December 9, 2008

WhaleRider:

Regarding your recent encounter with Robert; I thought you lived on the east coast; am I wrong? I don’t think Robert has been there for some time. Is it possible you saw a duplicate machine?

73. Yesri Baba - December 9, 2008

ADVERTISEMENT

‘YESRI’S SCHOOL FOR PETITE MEDITERRANEAN MIDDLE AGED LADIES’
has just been founded.
Hoping to fill many openings.

About Yesri-

Yesri is a young, handsome, oversexed heterosexual male.

Hey, he’s the teacher, would he lie?

74. Daily Cardiac - December 9, 2008

Lauralupa – 70:

“DC, you are priceless”

I believe it.

I’m no statistician either but it seems to me that your gullibility defies all laws of average/probability.”

So what.

75. nigel harris price - December 9, 2008

54 whalerider

You’re having a laugh! I would never have made center director material in the FOF, so what would make the position so different in our own cult. You may have heard Elena mention orgasm a few times and it is possible to experience this without physical contact (when one is in the right psychological state). The trouble is being ‘hooked up on the sexual act’ (there’s the identification). Remember, the Sun is a self-contained, sexual being…..Nigel.
(P.S. Something about Tantric Sex).

76. nigel harris price - December 9, 2008

69 Daily Cardiac

Truth at a PRICE – that’s me – was, is and will be…..Nigel.

77. Crouching Tiger - December 9, 2008

DC – “Enlightened beings don’t conform to ordinary morality. Ordinary people conform to ordinary morality. I’ve also said that while people have been consumed with trying to get RB to conform to their own standards they have missed much bigger truths that have come from him.”

Where on earth (or heaven) do you think ‘ordinary morality’ originated? Moses receiving the ten commandments on the mountain, and there are other equivalents in other traditions. However twisted and faint a resemblance it may have become in our age, ordinary morality was once based on divine law. All enlightened beings have a duty to uphold divine law, though of course they have to know the inner ‘why?’ – why it’s necessary to do that – before they can uphold it. If they don’t have any knowledge of the ‘Why?’ they naturally they will use their power for other ends – any end ‘I’ see fit….

A separate thought on your beloved Sequence. It may interest you to know that there’s a very simple, similar exercise in the Gurdjieff teaching (one exercise among many). You simply count to ten (and then back from ten to one) while engaged in another (physical) activity. This will begin to sort the I’s and make bits of imagination (when the thoughts distract from the activity) obvious. The Sequence is probably a rather gratuitous ornamentation of that exercise. At least, in my experience the six+four division does not improve the result of the the ten straightforward counting steps, provided you put a bit of feeling into it. Try it yourself and see!

The fact that one little exercise has been deified and made the central plank of the fellowship does seem to indicate a certain poverty of spiritual background.

78. harryhindsight - December 9, 2008

# 69 Daily Cardigan,

Go on admit it, had a big old stiffy when you wrote that one didn’t you!

79. harryhindsight - December 9, 2008

Daily Cardigan,

I’m not following you. Why did you think Whalerider would mistake Robert for a duplicating machine?

80. harryhindsight - December 9, 2008

Daily Cardigan,

“I’ve also said that while people have been consumed with trying to get RB to conform to their own standards they have missed much bigger truths that have come from him.”

Like being a Goddess in a man’s body who will share an apartment with Leonardo on the sun after dying perhaps?

Or
did
I
miss
an
even
bigger
bunch
of
truths?

81. dragon - December 9, 2008

DC, you wanna pay?

INTERNATIONAL STANDARD VERSION “(© 2008)
I tell you with certainty, you will not get out of there until you pay back the last dollar!”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I can guarantee this truth: You will never get out until you pay every penny of your fine.

King James Bible
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

American King James Version
Truly I say to you, You shall by no means come out there, till you have paid the uttermost farthing.

American Standard Version
Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.

Bible in Basic English
Truly I say to you, You will not come out from there till you have made payment of the very last farthing.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

Darby Bible Translation
Verily I say to thee, Thou shalt in no wise come out thence till thou hast paid the last farthing.

English Revised Version
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.

Webster’s Bible Translation
Verily, I say to thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Weymouth New Testament
I solemnly tell you that you will certainly not be released till you have paid the very last farthing.

World English Bible
Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there, until you have paid the last penny.

Young’s Literal Translation
verily I say to thee, thou mayest not come forth thence till that thou mayest pay the last farthing.

Geneva Study Bible
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

(q) You will be dealt with in this manner, to the utmost extremity.

People’s New Testament

5:26 Thou shalt by no means come out from thence. After the debtor was cast into prison he was held until the debt was paid, and if it were not, he remained in prison until he died.

Farthing. A small, insignificant copper coin.

The warning against lawsuits is clear, but there is a higher idea still. The Lord would warn us to make everything right before it is too late. Before the judgment there is a chance; after it there is nothing but payment.

ABORTION DC:

You lived like a soulless ZOMBIE until the FOF started with the SOUL-SHOP OPENING for you?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/

PS Are those questions purely rhetorical, the sixty-nine thousand dollar questions, unsolved issues, out of the question……..

Your philosophy on life (-people)? The DEAD PARROT (FOF/R.E.BOB) internalization:

82. Draco - December 9, 2008

DC 58/69
“If I am understanding you correctly you are saying that I have no right or authority to suggest you are succumbing to the Ad Hominem argument, but you have every right to say I am wrong for suggesting it. Is that how it goes?”

You have the right to suggest it but that doesn’t mean that your suggestion is relevent. This forum is about the Fellowship of Friends. It’s not an academic forum, it’s about real people and the effect that the Fellowship has had on them. So, okay, I will acknowledge that my posts are ad hominem, in that they are directed against the Fellowship of Friends, not against specific attempts at formal arguments to justify the FOF. Yours are ad hominem too–you frequently refer to ex-students, who in your posts are explicitly defined as people who do not understand the Fellowship or were unwilling to make the payment to evolve. So we cannot discuss things on this forum without referring to experience and the general beliefs in the FOF. You constantly use Fellowship concepts like Conscious School, conscious being, Presence, so natutrally we read your posts in the context of Fellowship dogma.

To go back to the original topic: Robert has said many times that if you are in the FOF when you die, angels will take your soul and prepare it for another lifetime. But if you leave the Fellowship, your soul will go to the moon, you will go to the end of the queue for evolution, you have succumbed to the lower self, etc etc. Remaining in the FOF is dependent on being up to date with teaching payments or being on salary (a few exceptions have been made for devoted longterm members, but not man). Here’s an example:-
“Sharole Manering
Philadelphia Centre [sic: notice English spelling in vogue/sw]

Dear Sharole,

As you requested, herein are the angles the Teacher offered to you.

“Tell Sharole hello for me. And tell her to remember that she is working with Influence C and that she needs to be a good businesswoman with them. Tell her that she has held on this long and that there is no reason that she cannot hold on eternally; that is, until she becomes an angel. Remind her that this is C influence speaking directly with her through me. Remind her that this is their way of warning her and that she has to become current with her donations now or she will have to leave the Fellowship. Tell her that the only other place to go is hell.”

Those are his words, Sharole. Good luck to you.

Sincerely,

s/James B.* ”
http://www.geocities.com/stella_wirk/sharole.htm
An image of the letter is reproduced on the site.

Now, you say that “Salvation depends on how much a person has followed the true path of presence.” This sounds much more reasonable than the scary point of view expressed in Robert’s angles above, but do you acknowledge any contemporary teachings to be following the true path except for the Fellowship?

“The inability to admit that you, as an individual, do not possess or determine what is true in an objective sense is a dimention of vanity, or in life gargon, is narcissistic.”

Once again, I find this meaningless as a criticism because you yourself give every indication that you do believe that you can determine what is objectively true. Fellowship terms like “B Influence”, “Life”, “conscious beings” are authoritarian concepts that claim objectivity.

“Enlightened beings don’t conform to ordinary morality. Ordinary people conform to ordinary morality. I’ve also said that while people have been consumed with trying to get RB to conform to their own standards they have missed much bigger truths that have come from him. But Truth comes with a payment; it is not given for nothing.”
Don’t tell me: you heard this in the Oregon House Store.

83. Draco - December 9, 2008

Regarding abortion: as it happens, I’m pro-choice, but the choice belongs to the woman and termination can obviously have very difficult emotional and physical consequences. If you treat Robert’s motives as unknowable or uniquely concerned with the spiritual development of FOF members, you grant him an absolute authority. We have all done that to some extent, and then seen how he has abused that authority. The reason given for the coerced abortions was that children should only be born later on so that they would grow up as part of the ark.

There was another message which gave the initials of a couple who had been persuaded to abort their baby. The archives are difficult to search (or even to find) and the message may have been deleted. I agree with some of the replies to that message that the names shouldn’t have been given: it’s not appropriate for a third party to reveal those names.

This isn’t primarily about principles, it’s about the effect that the Fellowship has on its members.

As for posts by current members being attacked as false: many current members have posted their concerns about the Fellowship on the blog. Many have then gone on to leave the Fellowship.

84. Draco - December 9, 2008

DC 58/69
“Draco – “I deconstruct your arguments because your arguments depend on the structure that you give them.”

DC: This is true for everyone and to point this out about me only is itself a prime example of a viewpoint laced with Ad Hominem.”

It’s specific to your posts. My point is that you often misrepresent your true opinions by using tricksy logic and selecting the more acceptable parts of your beliefs. You don’t always do this. You were straightfoward in your replies to Dick Moron in 57/280 and what you wrote was standard Fellowship dogma.

85. Mick Danger - December 9, 2008

Wait, Wait, Wait. Let’s go back a few posts.
What’s this about an erased phallus?
And female ordained rabbits?

86. Jomo Piñata - December 9, 2008

Life jargon! Ouija bingo! Liver, kidney, whatever! Awk. Cuff links! Insufficient valuation! Awk!

87. lauralupa - December 9, 2008

YB 72
Thanks Baba,
how timely! I am really grateful you stepped in to fill my niche market. I think you will do very well.
In fact, judging from my personal experiences, women over 35 seem to be the strongest demographic segment within most of the spiritual and self-exploration groups out there. it’s really sad to see some of theses ladies (among them a few old friends, although luckily most have gotten out by now) still follow a misogynist, sick, heartless, deeply anti-female sexist teacher such as Burton. Maybe a Witch, possibly a Succubus, surely a Queen, but definitely NOT a Goddess in a man’s body!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jajOFQMS7rw

88. whalerider - December 9, 2008

nigel:
What makes you think you aren’t center director material? Of course you are! You have a mental disorder! I’ll make you London Center Director. (forgive me)

Daily Cardiac:
“Regarding your recent encounter with Robert; I thought you lived on the east coast; am I wrong?”

Could you handle being wrong in your thinking?

>>>>>>><<<<<<<

I do wish to thank the C.U.N.T. member who gave me the green card jock strap for my birthday! It has proven the most successful recruiting technique of all time, especially in countries like Russia and South America. One doesn’t need to speak English to get the message.

89. Ellen - December 9, 2008

WR and Jomo,
Thanks for the comic relief.
WR, I’m ready, where do I sign up?
Jomo, 44! AWK!

90. fofblogmoderator - December 9, 2008

70, 81, 82 & 87 are newly moderated

91. whalerider - December 9, 2008

Zounds! I have just been informed by registered mail at my home in New Zealand that my Church’s acronym, C.U.N.T. has already been taken by some group of aging hippies and imported boy toys in Northern California claiming to be esoteric Christians called the Cult of Unabashed Narcissistic Thought!

Luckily, they don’t like women.

92. dragon - December 9, 2008

Gullibility,

I confess: I believe that ape man is DC, the owner of the search function for the enlighted being ROBOB.

44 APES!

PS Recently Leonardo da Vinci called me up.

He denied with verve to be in any contact with ROBOB, nor did he ever.

But he will support a contact of ROBOB with Osama BIN BADEN.
Osama is the man Nr. undercover, the up-and-coming for ROBOB.
Osama is the new spiritual input. He will teach ROBOB suffering in luxury and an ardent belief near the Pakistani border in the new silky ankle socks boot camp for FOF’ies.

(baden:= GERMAN for to bathe)

Ellen!!! You are an enlightened being! Congratulations!
Roses under your feet!

93. nigel harris price - December 9, 2008

88 whalerider

To be honest, I don’t want to be anyone’s ‘Lord and Master’. I am not even sure now why I signed up for the GF site. ‘Curiosity killed the cat’ maybe? I am pleased enough that I have my craft-students to whom I can hand down skills – 16 at the moment and more in the New Year.

Regarding this sex and women thing, there is a beautiful passage in Desiderata – something about surrendering wisely to the council of the years. I, for one, would not want the craziness of teenage and twenties years again. And, were I REB, I certainly would not want his sexlife.

…..Nigel.

94. dragon - December 9, 2008

Nigel I completely agree with you.
(But I am sure why I signed the petition).

Curiosity killed one live of the cat but the cat has seven lives(minimum), don’t forget.

And now for our special guest DC the “HAMMER VERSION” of
WILD THING (because he don’t do that fizzic version yet in his mind.

95. dragon - December 9, 2008

DC, please note:

you are the blind man in the video!

And the wild thing is Bob, the goddess in a man’s body.

And his harem is hypnotized by ………
oh, oh….our lower, lower selfs.

It is a long way to enlightenment….

96. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - December 9, 2008

I think the worst part for me being in the FOF for 20 years is that I now find it very difficult to trust in my belief of higher beings and am extremely skeptical of anyone saying they have this connection.

One might look at this as less naive however I think for me personally I am far less open to the conscious influence possibility than I used to be and consequently my idealism has taken a beating.

I also think that self observation or spending so much time doing this activity is actually harmful. I left the FOF not feeling like I had advanced spiritually but that it harmed the spiritual side of me because now I constantly question my intuitive side.

Thus I believe it has actually taken me longer to open up to higher possibilities because I was in the FOF for so long. I believe this is a spiritual crime that takes a long time to heal from. I’m 15 years out and still healing.

97. aline - December 9, 2008

#95 wakeuplittlesuzywakeup

Hello Suzy,
You should look at the last reply posted by P…L AC…F in the GF under the rubric “why not to sign the petition?”, it is exactly about what you are speaking in your last post.

98. dragon - December 9, 2008

121 Total Signatures

I know it is horrifyingly hard to act with your own fingers and to put the enter bottom.

It is something like a very difficult birth, it may be the end of a terrible affliction.

It takes a lot of courage to do that after all those years.

I am hopeful with patience……

In the end will be the realization that it was a long, dark time.

Everybody experienced it in his own way but with the blog you have the opportunity to put the fragments together and to recognize the whole.

DC’s input is an informative sign , he is all too revealing of his own envy of the Blog’s success.

99. Solar Hero - December 9, 2008

“One simple question – Do you believe in an afterlife?” – Daily C

Recycling an old trope:

Once one tastes non-dual consciousness, the question of death and the afterlife become meaningless.

Daily C’s question reveals his level of being: still dependent upon another (his guru) for his own states. DC, I’d be happy to discuss this with you off-blog or on.

walter.tanner@gmail.com

I love you whalerider, but really:

“The account of Burton rubbing the hand of the unfortunate Russian follower on Burton’s inner thigh during a “teaching event” made me want to puke. That is so sleazy!
Enough is enough. Burton is ill and needs to be contained.”

I don’t call that “ill”…hell if I have that much libido when I’m 70 I’ll be thanking influence C! I just have a feeling that I’ll be just as horny without the need of an enabling theology, quisling sycophants, anti-depressants, opiates, and viagra!

I’m not sure you are all getting it: a lot of the Fellowship membership appreciates Robert’s predator-like way of being, that is what they want from “evolution,” “enlightenment,” or whatever you call it — to be more powerful beings. Its the “lower” failing to apprehend the “higher.”

I like whalerider’s suggestion to involve the French authorities, they are much more, uhm, authoritarian regarding religion than we Anglos. Something to do with some revolution they had….

Myself, I am looking at ways to bring down the big fish, Roman Catholicism. I watch your petitions and efforts closely, therefore.

And finally, whalerider, the rant on seducing lesbians truly impacted my essence, being a lesbian-in-a-man’s-body (fuck you harryhindsight, for using the term first)!

Lauralupa: I could make an exception, since I meet your qualifications (re: #56)!

Elena: “Hopefully they’ll look for help before they crash.” — No, hopefully they’ll just crash.

OK, whalerider, upon reading more I’ll join your cult, but I get to be in the inner circle, with permanent privileges, namaste?

Yesri Baba, I’ll join your cult, but only with extreme qualifications. Call me.

100. up with which I will not put - December 10, 2008

74. Daily Cardiac “So what.”
86. Jomo Piñata: “Awk!”

You are both just parroting the FOF propaganda.

101. Jomo Piñata - December 10, 2008

You’re nothing but a pack of cards! Awk! Ten thousand on the ark in the year 2006. Doors will shut. Awk! Liver, kidney, whatever. Cuff links!

102. Jomo Piñata - December 10, 2008

Awk! Mid-most point of femininity. Mechanical goodness. I photograph you. Awk. It is enough, my soul. Wheeo,oo! Dixon Hill Road named after Jeanne Dixon. Bomb shelters. Whee,oo! Seventeenth century clothing. Calumny! Awk!

103. Jomo Piñata - December 10, 2008

Making my beak work, Fra Angelico. Awk! Angels in the room right now. Whee,oo! Is this genuine maple syrup? Stone in my shoe. Pip, pip, pip, pip. I am to be embalmed like Lenin. Wheet, wheet!

104. Jomo Piñata - December 10, 2008

Higher centres are located in the testicles. This is why women serve a secondary role in our school. They earned the chance in another life. We do not permit them in the Galleria. Pip, pip, pip, pip, pip. Wheet! Ouija bingo. 9, 7, 15 27 12, bonus number 32. Ping pong! Awk!

105. Jomo Piñata - December 10, 2008

Ding, dong. Uh-oh. Wheet! Life people. Pay them in cash, pay them in cash, pay them in cash. Pip, pip, pip, pip, pip. Wheet!

106. fofblogmoderator - December 10, 2008

94 & 99 are newly moderated

107. veramente - December 10, 2008

69 DC

Regarding post 30:
Abortion is legal in most developed countries in the world. If you are trying to reflect Robert’s suggesting to students to have an abortion as a character flaw you might have a hard time justifying the fact that millions of abortions are carried out daily.

GENERALIZING….
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I’m happy for you that you have a healthy child that is a treasure to you. It’s obvious it was your fate to have your child. I’m also sure Robert had his own valid reasons to tell your husband what he told him.
—————————-

DC, for the records the post you read on # 30 was mine. Draco kindly posted it again from an old page of the blog.
Robert did not have any reasons in particular to say to my husband that we had missed an opportunity to oppose our catholic upbringing by not having an abortion. RB was just being an asshole. Sorry for the language, but he deserves it.
I am sorry other people went through some more serious trauma with this issue of abortions, do you feel anything for them?

108. peter - December 10, 2008

DC

But Truth comes with a payment; it is not given for nothing.

But Lies also come with a payment; they are also not given for nothing.

You buy them in ‘fellowship’ of ‘friends’

109. Crouching Tiger - December 10, 2008

Wakeuplittlesuzywakeup.

“I think the worst part for me being in the FOF for 20 years is that I now find it very difficult to trust in my belief of higher beings and am extremely skeptical of anyone saying they have this connection.

One might look at this as less naive however I think for me personally I am far less open to the conscious influence possibility than I used to be and consequently my idealism has taken a beating.

I also think that self observation or spending so much time doing this activity is actually harmful. I left the FOF not feeling like I had advanced spiritually but that it harmed the spiritual side of me because now I constantly question my intuitive side.

Thus I believe it has actually taken me longer to open up to higher possibilities because I was in the FOF for so long. I believe this is a spiritual crime that takes a long time to heal from. I’m 15 years out and still healing.”

This is the most eloquent and simplest post I have read here in a long time, and it attests a very common experience… One of my best friends – who left last year – is having very much the struggle you describe. I don’t think it’s possible to phrase the struggle better than you do here.

My friend is very afraid of experiencing anything connected with higher powers, struggle with the ‘self’ and even knowledge of their inner life now because it all has the RB thumbprint on it. [They] experience a sense of disconnection and numbness in their emotional lives, which I very much hope will be temporary. Another friend of mine who left went full-on into a career, and toasted “To the the death of esotericism!”

For myself, I too have frequently stumbled upon parts where RB is still clearly ‘in residence’, and there’s a fear-factor of going anywhere near them. They may be work methods, or even simple emotions that have some fellowship charge left in them.

The process of the school is one in which RB wants to become completely associated with all the positive developments in your inner life and your relationship to higher forces, so that eventually you cannot disentangle one from the other. Then he will silently be considered responsible, internally-speaking, for all the uplifting experiences, and all the progress you feel you make. He is the ‘conscious teacher’ and you are in a ‘conscious school’.

So people often find themselves in a very real ‘hell’ when they leave, because everywhere they look in their inner lives, someone else appears to be in control… This is not the case in actuality, but the habit has been so thoroughly learned. This is probably one reason why Non-dualism can be particularly useful when you exit, it removes you from the ‘struggling seeker’ persona quite quickly.

Ultimately, you have to go back in there and sort out the wreckage. Have faith in your own possibilities again. Nearly all the work you do, you do yourself. Some of it can be assisted, some not. But nearly everything you experienced in the fellowship had some value, you just need to shake it loose from the Burton grip. That’s the biggest victory, reclaiming what belongs to you, and you alone – that delicate but profound sense of your own inner life in its constant dance with the outer world…

I have no doubt that DC is here to reinforce the ‘grip’, the feeling that somehow you have irrevocably lost something which is the exclusive preserve of the fellowship and RB (presence).. That he is your only true mediator to higher forces etc etc.. DC needs to be disregarded, not least for his own good – otherwise how will he ever come to the end of his current thinking?

I have been fortunate to find a more authentic version of the Gurdjieff teaching, which at the very least shows up the obvious holes in Robert Burton’s methods and aims, and why ‘spiritual advance’ is accompanied by ‘spiritual harm’, always and everywhere. Even his notion of self-observation is flawed!

One day you may be able to pick up the tools of the system again with a real desire. Even if you don’t, you can re-establish your relationship to your own inner life again on your own terms. It is your possibility and your life, it does not belong to anyone else, least of all Robert Burton.

110. Daily Cardiac - December 10, 2008

A fictional account:

DC – ” It’s my belief that Robert Burton is an enlightened being and the FoF a conscious school of awakening. This I have determined through my own observations and verifications.

Draco / LauraLupa – ” I don’t believe it”

Robert Burton, as leader of a conscious school, has been directly responsible for rescuing me from a dead end life and a dead end psychology. Many others feel the same way I do.

Laura / Draco – “So What.”

Please don’t think I’m mocking you. I am making the point that any trait or tendency you single me out for can as easily fit any number of ex members on the blog.

When individuals try to pass off their own views and beliefs as some kind of all encompassing truth it does not serve their position well. It’s an extremely transparent contradiction to any open minded soul.

We are exchanging viewpoints, beliefs, opinions, conjecture, theories. Any of which may or may not be true, in whole or in part. Whoever is not satisfied with the limitations of this blog; that it is not an instrument of proof, only reveals their own self diluted or deceptive ways.

I, as much as any ex member, wishes the blog could be an instrument of proof. I, as much as any ex member, wishes that whatever I say would be accepted as an all encompassing truth.

To think that ex members can only speak the truth on this blog and current members can only lie is an unsupportable fallacy to any reasoning (and open) mind. And yet if one reads the portion of the 25,000 posts submitted by ex members (about 95% of the total) this is exactly what they would have readers believe.

A faulty premise such as this is only supportable on this blog due to the extreme imbalance of supporters to critics, and to the resulting complicity of those critics to propagate their like minded agendas.

I am not complaining about the nature or composition of the blog. It was begun by an individual who had rejected the FoF and who termed it a “cult for intellectuals.” It is the only place ex members can communicate with each other and retain their anonymity, or the only place they can say just about anything they want to say.

I fully understand that I am a “fly in the ointment” here. If people give any credence to my views it will only serve to deflate their own as my views are diametrically in contrast with theirs.

And yet seekers of truth have no aversion to opponents and their right to express opposite views. They welcome all viewpoints and they are ready to alter, or even give up theirs, if another viewpoint exposes the fallacy of theirs.

Seekers of truth remain open minded. And when they find truth they stop seeking and dwell there.

111. Crouching Tiger - December 10, 2008

DC –

“I fully understand that I am a “fly in the ointment” here. If people give any credence to my views it will only serve to deflate their own as my views are diametrically in contrast with theirs.

And yet seekers of truth have no aversion to opponents and their right to express opposite views. They welcome all viewpoints and they are ready to alter, or even give up theirs, if another viewpoint exposes the fallacy of theirs.

Seekers of truth remain open minded. And when they find truth they stop seeking and dwell there.”

There would be no place for a non-believer in the fellowship. You wouldn’t last long if you didn’t go along with the Sequence or the belief that RB is a man #7, for instance. But we do accommodate you here. If you’d found it so unbearable you would have stopped posting a long time ago!

But the purpose of the Blog is not to validate Robert Burton’s school or even to negotiate with it (through you) if the poster does not feel so inclined. Yes there are many opinions here, but more importantly there is a lot of naked experience, without a lot of commentary, which it is in your interest to render mute, because it does not chime with your belief-system. You tend to say, ‘That’s just another theory’ and try to minimize the impact of these accounts.

Nobody here objects to your presence to the extent of wanting you banned, so you’re free to say what you like. And while there may be a few more extreme viewpoints, many here are in the process of discovering the school’s true position in the scheme of things. I’ve already told you my viewpoint: the school is incomplete and RB is an incomplete teacher, and that’s why simple, sincere posts like Suzy’s are important. They describe the effects of ‘being-in’, then leaving without bias.

The fellowship of friends can be a fruitful vehicle for someone’s aspirations, but it also a very dangerous vehicle which can’t separate its own ‘harm’ from its own ‘good’. It just has those limitations, that’s all.

112. lauralupa - December 10, 2008

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death’s other Kingdom
Remember us—if at all—not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.

II

Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death’s dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind’s singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.

Let me be no nearer
In death’s dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat’s coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer—

Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom

III

This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man’s hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death’s other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.

IV

The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms

In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river

Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death’s twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.

V

Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o’clock in the morning.

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

T.S. Eliot

113. Draco - December 10, 2008

DC 110.

Your “I don’t believe it”/”so what?” examples are of a different nature. You respond to stories of suffering and damage caused by the Fellowship by denying that they ever happened or looking at the legality of the issue rather than its effect on the person. Your counter examples are invented and they are about disregarding the benefits of FOF membership, not about displaying a callous attitude to human sufering.

Regarding the rest of your message: well, yes, why not live and let live? I would probably be more open to people who say that they benefited from their experiences in Osho’s group (and I’m no fan of Osho) than to people who say the same of the FOF–simply because I’ve had the full range of FOF experiences myself and come to the conclusion that the investment doesn’t match the results.

For me the blog, government investigations of the FOF, etc. are necessary as a means to oppose Robert’s hold over his followers, a hold that is accomplished through fear, blinkered vision, coercion and all the other techniques. The blog is an opposing voice which is necessary because criticism is

“Robert Burton, as leader of a conscious school, has been directly responsible for rescuing me from a dead end life and a dead end psychology. Many others feel the same way I do.”

I personally feel no gratitude to Burton because he has demanded so much gratitude and love oer the years (via the medium of extra donations, “gifts”, letters telling him how great the school is, constant self-praise at events) that he has exhausted it. All I could hope to give him now is a means of truly seeing the effect that he has had on others.

Christmas is coming and I feel like a softer approach.

114. nigel harris price - December 10, 2008

109 Crouching Tiger

Yes – I found the same, coming out! For me, there was a several-years-long wondering why I was still alive, and had the right to be alive. Now, in the almost-becoming which may take me the rest of this life, comes a need to stick to my craft form and its teaching, letting me and my students grow…..Nigel (out 19 1/2 years)

115. ton - December 10, 2008

DC around 110:
“Seekers of truth remain open minded. And when they find truth they stop seeking and dwell there.”

in a ‘nutshell’ this is precisely the problem, DC contradicts himself from one sentence to the next. dc is not open minded, he thinks he has found “THE TRUTH” and so there ends the search for truth. anyone really interested in truth must have an open mind… the search for truth doesn’t end, that is if you are really interested in truth. the search for truth doesn’t end because truth is not static, it’s not monolithic, truth is a ‘fluid’ situation, like a river. those who are brainwashed by the fof cult are not interested in truth because they believe they have already found it, and so the search for truth withers on the vine….

if nothing else the shill is glib… throwing around words like ‘truth’ and terms like ‘seekers of truth’ as if he really has a clue as to the meaning…. the fof sheeple and this shill is not a ‘seeker of truth.’ he may wrap himself in that flag and present the trappings of a ‘truth seeker’ but in fact the shill is a ‘true believer.’

(The True Believer: by Eric Hoffer discusses the psychological causes of fanaticism. Keene considered ‘true believer syndrome’ to be a cognitive disorder, and regarded it as being a key factor in the success of many mediums).

the shill is not interested in truth, the interests of the shill are confined to the limited scope of the belief ‘system’ that controls him. the shill’s interest and agenda lies in finding ways and means (e.g. rationalization and denial) for supporting and defending said belief ‘system.’

briefly examining the meaning of the word truth — from wiki: it “extends from honesty, good faith, and sincerity in general, to agreement with fact or reality in particular.”

it might be argued that the fof shill, the apologist, the defender, etc, acts on behalf of his cult in ‘good faith and sincerity’ — and inasmuch as he is a ‘true believer,’ that may be the case, he has no choice but to act and behave in this manner… the alternative is excommunication and eternal damnation. he really believes, he has swallowed the bullshit hook-line-and-sinker, he is brainwashed to believe in his cult and in ‘the cause’ he has taken up, and so he acts in ‘good faith’ and with ‘sincerity.’ his belief in this regard may have some elements of ‘truth’ but it is partial truth at best, half-truths are what the shill clings to so dearly. (but half-truths when used to manipulate and decieve may be worse than bald-faced lies).

continue examining the meaning of the word ‘truth’–

“The term has no single definition about which a majority of professional philosophers and scholars agree, and various theories of truth continue to be debated.”

those unfortunates who are brainwashed by the fof cult are not interested in truth because they believe, they are absolutely convinced they have already found it. the fof cult believes they are THE SELECT FEW who are in contact with the absolute truth…. this is a huge piece of the delusion of cult-think, and fundamentalism in general.

“There are differing claims on such questions as to what constitutes truth; how to define and identify truth; the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play; and whether truth is subjective, relative, objective, or absolute. This article introduces the various perspectives and claims, both today and throughout history.”

and so the article goes on… DC, a suggestion if you are still reading this, the internet is a wonderful resourse for expanding your mind, try doing a little research beyond the confines of your psychoemotional gulag…. ‘There are more things in heaven and earth, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.’

try: wiki ‘truth’

▪ 1 Nomenclature and etymology
▪ 2 The major theories of truth
▪ 2.1 Substantive theories
▪ 2.1.1 Correspondence theory
▪ 2.1.2 Coherence theory
▪ 2.1.3 Constructivist theory
▪ 2.1.4 Consensus theory
▪ 2.1.5 Pragmatic theory
▪ 2.2 Minimalist (deflationary) theories
▪ 2.2.1 Performative theory of truth
▪ 2.2.2 Redundancy and related theories
▪ 3 Formal theories
▪ 3.1 Truth in logic
▪ 3.2 Truth in mathematics
▪ 3.3 Semantic theory of truth
▪ 3.4 Kripke’s theory of truth
▪ 4 Notable philosophers’ views
▪ 4.1 Ancient philosophers
▪ 4.2 Medieval philosophers
▪ 4.2.1 Avicenna
▪ 4.2.2 Aquinas
▪ 4.3 Modern philosophers
▪ 4.3.1 Kant
▪ 4.3.2 Hegel
▪ 4.3.3 Schopenhauer
▪ 4.3.4 Kierkegaard
▪ 4.3.5 Nietzsche
▪ 4.3.6 Heidegger
▪ 4.3.7 Whitehead
▪ 4.3.8 Nishida
▪ 4.3.9 Fromm
▪ 4.3.10 Foucault
▪ 4.3.11 Baudrillard
▪ 4.3.12 Ratzinger
▪ 4.3.13 Badiou
▪ 5 Types of truth
▪ 5.1 Mythology
▪ 5.2 Religious truth
▪ 5.3 Scientific truth
▪ 6 Notes
▪ 7 References
▪ 8 See also
▪ 8.1 Truth in logic
▪ 8.2 Theories of truth
▪ 8.3 Major theorists
▪ 9 External links

116. elena - December 10, 2008

Thanks all for your posts and for these particular insights:

Solar Hero 99: I’m not sure you are all getting it: a lot of the Fellowship membership appreciates Robert’s predator-like way of being, that is what they want from “evolution,” “enlightenment,” or whatever you call it — to be more powerful beings. Its the “lower” failing to apprehend the “higher.”

There’s definitely a lot of that and it is one of the darkest sides of the Fellowship presented on a very positive light by those who are getting deeply hooked on it. They don’t talk about it publicly but the permissiveness is in the air. The ideal for many of the men is that women allow for the same behavior that the boys are allowing with Robert.

It would help if those who fell into such trap talk about it but they probably won’t because they are ashamed. When you separate from the shame and take responsibility for your self, you won’t be afraid of talking about it. That is, when you look at your own self with enough compassion and understand others are in danger of falling into the same trap. This is in fact true of the five hundred members who are not even willing to sign the petition and take care of the Fellowship’s abuses for once and for all.

96. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup
“Thus I believe it has actually taken me longer to open up to higher possibilities because I was in the FOF for so long. I believe this is a spiritual crime that takes a long time to heal from. I’m 15 years out and still healing.”

Thanks Suzy, that’s a powerful aspect of the damages that is barely taken into account but in the long run it is probably the worst of the damages. Not necessarily influence C as such, which is just another way of seeing the Gods in the same Christian Cultic vision but in failing to move inward within one’s own possibilities. It’s a major aspect of Robert’s corrupted version of the System in which he made of Influence C the issue rather than the worlds within the individual. Self remembering should lead to the verification of higher states and in higher states to the presence of other influences while Robert made of Influence C the same Christian God looking for sins and making people feel unworthy of themselves.

Crouching Tiger 109: That’s the biggest victory, reclaiming what belongs to you, and you alone – that delicate but profound sense of your own inner life in its constant dance with the outer world…

Draco 113: For me the blog, government investigations of the FOF, etc. are necessary as a means to oppose Robert’s hold over his followers, a hold that is accomplished through fear, blinkered vision, coercion and all the other techniques.

Thanks again.

117. brucelevy - December 10, 2008

110. Daily Catatonia

“And when they find truth they stop seeking and dwell there.”

Really? This is one of the dumbest things you’ve stated here. You live in a world of straw men and flaming queens.

You’re welcome to dwell anywhere you wish. It’s called standing still. For me truth is relative to time, place and being. It’s a journey, not a destination.

118. brucelevy - December 10, 2008

115. ton

Great minds…

119. elena - December 10, 2008

Thanks Ton for your detailed look. There are not more than fifty Daily Cardiacs in the Fellowship which is already too many but others reading will spot the weaknesses in time.

120. Miguel - December 10, 2008

Elena,
Creo que dispongo del equipo y del tiempo necesario para continuar con la iniciativa de crear un blog en Español (Castellano).
Queda por ver qué opina Steve.
Gracias por ofrecerme tu ayuda.

121. Mick Danger - December 10, 2008

RE: 58/110
Recent statistical analysis of blog contents that only 5% of all posts are boring, tedious & humorless.

122. Daily Cardiac - December 10, 2008

Peter – 108:

“DC

But Truth comes with a payment; it is not given for nothing.

But Lies also come with a payment; they are also not given for nothing.

You buy them in ‘fellowship’ of ‘friends’”

Actually Peter, your comments are incorrect as I understand things.

One pays for truth; pays to know truth and pays to live truth.

Falsehoods are free, anyone can have them, live them.

Truth is finite and is subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Falsehoods are infinite and renewable at will.

123. brucelevy - December 10, 2008

121. Daily Cardiac

“Truth is finite and is subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Falsehoods are infinite and renewable at will.”

Another idiot statement. Don’t you get tired of pulling this stuff out of your ass? It’s laughable that you are the purveyor of truth… like RB being the purveyor of humanity and conscience.

124. fofblogmoderator - December 10, 2008

120 is newly moderated

As far as creating a Spanish blog, I think whoever wants this will need to be the creator and manager.

125. Opus 111 - December 10, 2008

DC – ” It’s my belief that Robert Burton is an enlightened being and the FoF a conscious school of awakening. This I have determined through my own observations and verifications.

They are theories and then they are facts. You repeat the same unverifiable, tautological statements over and over and claim them to be the God-sent truth.
Facts may lend themselves to interpretation and distortion (fisting is good for awakening, predatory sexual behavior is appropriate on higher moral grounds, a theory of astonishingly poor intellectual content is the greatest revelation the gods have bestowed upon men, an aging drug-dependent, sexually addicted man is the greatest shining light since Christ, etc…), but in the end all those facts remain: simple, verifiable and in the case of Burton and FOF, disturbing.

126. Opus 111 - December 10, 2008

I meant to write:

There are theories and then, there are facts.

127. loserbaby900 - December 10, 2008

I have heard of the many pills Burton takes. But is he truly addicted to any of them? For myself, I do not know, but I am interested in hearing the truth from anyone who kknows it.

128. loserbaby900 - December 10, 2008

Daily Cardigan

You spew many unexamined statements and theories that you state with confidence. For example, “truth is finite, and subject to the law of supply and demand.” How did you verify this? I truly want to know.

I suggest that a statement like this is intelligent sounding nonsense and cannot be verified. It is convenient for the guru that “truth must be paid for,” but that is another philosophical theory that has no evidence to support it that I can determine.

Jomo is right; you parrot soundbites that seem sort of profound and sound like they might be true. But there is no real proof for any of your statements about Truth.

Also this that you like to say: “Payment is a principle.” What does that even mean? It’s like saying “Candy is an item.” It makes no sense.

129. loserbaby900 - December 10, 2008

Daily Cardiac

Here is a story that I hope will help you. Last night, one of my roommates was sleepwalking. She walked into another person’s room. When the person asked the sleepwalker what she was doing there, she said “going to the bathroom.” The person who was awake told her that she was not in the bathroom. This upset the sleeping person, who kept repeating “I’m going to the bathroom” over and over. She was convinced she was in the bathroom. The ruckus woke several of us up, and we tried to tell her she was not in the bathroom. She got more and more upset, repeating her one sentence about going to the bathroom. Finally we woke her up, and she left the person’s room and went to the bathroom, then went back to bed.

To point out the obvious, you are certain you are in the bathroom. But there are many people standing here trying to tell you you are in a very different place. We have an even greater advantage over the above story, in that we each have thought we were in the bathroom too, with just as much conviction and certainty as you have. You repeat all the little lines about payment and truth and consciousness that we used to speak with great certainty. But our minds have broken the trance, and we know we are not in the bathroom.

I hope you come out of your hypnosis before you pee on somebody’s carpet.

130. Yesri Baba - December 10, 2008

Hey DC, Mick’s post above gave me an idea for an exercise for you.

A serious 4th way student should be willing to experiment a little with his inner world.

Hows about for a couple of weeks you turn the tide and use a little intentional, creative imagination and walk around giggling like a little girl.

Here are some suggestions but feel free to think up some of your own.

– At the next big serious meeting when RB does that little ‘head bob’ of his, visualize that it is a twitch left over from a few minutes before when he was huffing down on a ginormous chubbie.
– At the meeting pretend you are at a kindergarten birthday party and the clown hired to perform at the party is pointing at pictures and you are all playing along trying to find Waldo.
– When you see someone walking along with that distant gaze and slight smile on their face instead of imagining them looking upon the celestial choir, pretend they are just enjoying the squishy feeling from the left over K-Y.
– While gazing into someones eyes and they glance away don’t judge it to be the force of their ‘lower self’ but that they just let loose an SBD and are awaiting your revelation.

These are just some suggestions. It is much better to think up your own. Life can be fun while you are waiting for the real deal in paradise!

131. harryhindsight - December 10, 2008

Daily Cardigan,

“I fully understand that I am a “fly in the ointment” here.”

I would say more accurately you are the ointment on Robert’s fly.

The longer you and your like minded buddies continue to defend the indefensible with nonsense about higher morality, the more often that fly is going zip up and down. YOU are an active partner in the criminality that you justify away with esoteric soundbites.

132. Panorea - December 10, 2008

Daily Chicken Soup,

Man, You are so boring……………………………………………..

133. elena - December 11, 2008

DC:

“One pays for truth; pays to know truth and pays to live truth.

Falsehoods are free, anyone can have them, live them.

Truth is finite and is subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Falsehoods are infinite and renewable at will.”

You’re good Daily Cardiac, are you sure you’re not Robert himself? That is the shortest most accurate definition of the Fellowship that I’ve ever encountered. THAT is exactly what the members have been thoroughly convinced to believe deep in the folds of their much damaged essence.

Unconsciously, of course, for nothing was ever conscious in the Hollowship, that idea that everything needed to be paid for sunk in not so much in the verbal dogma of the Fellowship but in the actual practice of life in it. Shortly after I joined in the nineties, food was no longer free and then nothing was free. EVERYTHING had to be paid for until it got so amazingly sick that five or six sales people would attack you at every meal to see if you would “support” this or that third line octave!

You’re so right Daily Cardiac. Everyone in the Fellowship has for years and years made of consciousness a material object that needs to be paid for. They are convinced that if they sacrifice enough money and time they will sooner or later get to heaven. It is unfortunate that they will have to pay again for having been so greedy with their personal effort and inner work to think that it could be replaced with money or time, for in your and their laziness that is all that they are doing. Letting Robert take care of them and their lives because they are too lazy to take care of it themselves so they take out a bill of justifications from the Fellowship menu every time they need to make the effort to live with themselves.

I wonder how many in the Hollowship ever paid any money out of pure generosity and not because they were paying convinced that that would bring them Robert’s or other enabler’s favours? For what were the boys doing but that? And each of the servants at the Galleria? Or any of the people who went to live at Isis? And each visitor who came from Europe to a $350 dollars dinner? And when generosity didn’t even bring gratitude from Robert, how many told ourselves that it was a true school because money wasn’t the issue sinking us deeper in the labyrinth of worthlessness and unidirectional efforts against our own selves?

Of course, you will state that those who work for something in return have lost themselves in their own greed but you fail to recognize the spiritual dialogue amongst people in which sharing each other’s simple presence is enough to reconstruct the fine fibers of our integrity and it is free. As soon as you pay for it, the interchange of pure and simple generosity is trumpled on (hope that’s a word).
Stepped on and made an object of interchange that needs to be paid for. How very physical did you get in the Fellowship that you convinced us all to spend our time and effort in clothing and going to events in which we could not participate as full human beings.

The attitude is: “If you don’t appreciate Robert enough you show it by not paying enough and that alone will send you straight to hell dear. All your effort, all your money and all your physical strength to show up at every event like a ghost who’s inhabited somebody else’s body because no matter how much effort you put in making that body look beautiful for Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends congregation, no one will acknowledge your presence in its full dimension. They’ll just look at your clothing and judge you because you’ve got too much money or not enough money, too much tasteless taste or too much tasty taste. Nothing will ever be good enough for the vampire appetite of Mr. Burton.

How typical! Do you not get tired of having to buy everything? Having to always be useful to justify your existences convinced that money and sold time can buy you the self on which you do not dare stand?

Did you know that that time that you give away is what the devil buys from you? Much more than the money, what it needs from you is your time because in giving it, you endorse your being. In endorsing your being you are left with less of it in each transaction and after a while there is no longer enough of you to consult with. That is when it steps in and decides your every move without consulting with you who have given you’re your freedom to choose. It is in that freedom that the human being actually lives. But you are no longer humans.

My poor Daily Cardiac, did your parents count the money they paid in your schooling? Did they pass out a bill when you were old enough with the amount of money and time they had spent feeding you? Did those around you convince you that you had to work hard every day of your life so that the Sun would still shine for you? Did no one ever give you enough of themselves for you to know how priceless are the only things that matter in life and love?

I am so sorry for you and each person in the Fellowship of Friends who has lost the trace of the living, that tonight I offer you my unconditional help to free you from the Fellowship Cult for as long as I can. You are the poorest most needy people that I have ever come close to. People starving are not nearly as poor as you.

134. peter - December 11, 2008

ME

“The present moment is there all the time. It is a gift for me, I will accept that. I do not need to buy it. All I have to do is to be silent about it, I will not be vain about it and I will overcome the wish to make money or to spent money on it. Life is very simple. Be simple to myself, not special in any way. Let me just value presence for its own sake, let it warm my hart and let it bring me closer to the cosmos and finally beyond, alone in the great unknown.“

YOU

“The present moment is there all the time. It is a gift for you, accept that. You do not need to buy it. You just have to be in silence about it, don’t be vain about it and overcome the wish to make money or to spent money on it. Life is very simple. Be simple yourself, not special in any way. Just value presence for its own sake, let it warm your hart and let it bring you closer to the cosmos and finally beyond, alone in the great unknown. “

US

“The present moment is there all the time. It is a gift for us, let us accept that. We do not need to buy it. We just have to be in silence about it, and not be vain about it. Let us overcome the wish to make money or to spent money on it. Our life is very simple. We will be our own simple self, we don not what to be special in any way. We just value presence for its own sake, we let it warm our harts and let it bring us closer to the cosmos and finally beyond, alone in the great unknown.“

DC

I think that you do what you think you must do. You are to be valued for that. You defend the tribe you are a member of, the tribe you believe in.

Wishing you the best, really …
Peter

135. veramente - December 11, 2008

139 yesri
– At the next big serious meeting when RB does that little ‘head bob’ of his, visualize that it is a twitch left over from a few minutes before when he was huffing down on a ginormous chubbie
——————-
Thank you Yesri, I am still laughing!
Good tip for deflating the Guru…

136. veramente - December 11, 2008

I meant Yesri’s post 130 …

C’mon serious FOF members, show your teeth!

137. Daily Cardiac - December 11, 2008

ton – 115:

“in a ‘nutshell’ this is precisely the problem, DC contradicts himself from one sentence to the next. dc is not open minded, he thinks he has found “THE TRUTH” and so there ends the search for truth. anyone really interested in truth must have an open mind… the search for truth doesn’t end, that is if you are really interested in truth. the search for truth doesn’t end because truth is not static, it’s not monolithic, truth is a ‘fluid’ situation, like a river. those who are brainwashed by the fof cult are not interested in truth because they believe they have already found it, and so the search for truth withers on the vine….”

What do you do when you find truth? Do you pick it up, look at it for a few seconds and move on to another “truth” ?

ton – “the search for truth doesn’t end because truth is not static, it’s not monolithic, truth is a ‘fluid’ situation, like a river.”

And you are panning for truth at the river bank, putting truth nuggets in your sack and looking for other “truths” once you have one safely stowed away?

When I find a truth it becomes a part of me forever. I try to live that truth over and over. Truth for a day? I don’t think so. If a truth loses it’s luster so that you have to look for it over again it was not truth to start with. Truths are not many. I see the same ones, or variations of the same ones, over and over. In that case I would try to embrace them over and over.

ton – “DC contradicts himself from one sentence to the next.”

It’s more accurate to say that my “truth” contradicts your truth. Or your “truth” contradicts my truth. But what does that prove?

Everyone here knows we disagree. I support the FoF and RB and you don’t? So what. (Sorry Draco)

Your righteous indignation does not diminish anything I say. It’s just a ploy that allows you to “refute” my words without saying anything that actually does refute them. Without actually addressing the content with an argument that would supersede my words. I find little evidence of that happening. As I said everyone knows we disagree in principle. Just get on with a legitimate refutation.

ton – “(The True Believer: by Eric Hoffer discusses the psychological causes of fanaticism. Keene considered ‘true believer syndrome’ to be a cognitive disorder, and regarded it as being a key factor in the success of many mediums).”

Your “true believer” theories indicates nothing of substance as they fail to recognize the point at which a believer does in fact believe in what’s true and is not a mere fanatic.

For those theories to have any merit you would have to prove that truth does not exist, which would then infer that all “true believers” were fanatics.

The only thing you are accomplishing in dealing with my words is to bemoan the fact that I support the FoF. That doesn’t prove anything except that people exist who actually disagree with your views.

138. Ellen - December 11, 2008

129, Loser Baby900
130, Yesri Baba

More comedy on this page, thank you!
AWK!

139. Ellen - December 11, 2008

Daily Cardiac,
Would you say that your “truth” is the practice of Self Remembering? In the company of like-minded friends who, also like you, value it above all else? While being guided by a man who (you perceive) has stabilized there?

Sorry to put words in your mouth, just wanted to see if you could spell out your truth, so if my words don’t fit , please use your own?

140. Yesri Baba - December 11, 2008

Your “true believer” theories indicates nothing of substance as they fail to recognize the point at which a believer does in fact believe in what’s true and is not a mere fanatic.

————

That’s pretty good. It’s funny but not really funny ha ha.

141. dragon - December 11, 2008

Levels of consciousness?

How to deal with it?

Comedy? Indifference? Disapproval? Attack? inactivity?

(This is a video outside the scientific mainstream, it is not my present point of state, it is simply a different opinion)

142. ton - December 11, 2008

hey dc, let’s be clear, don’t project your bullshit onto me… i’m well aware that ‘people exist who actually disagree with’ me and very often i disagree with others… i live in the real world, i have to deal with this reality everyday of my life. i know this is a strange concept for those of you who are in lockstep with the fof cult think… and i’m not ‘bemoaning’ anything here…. of course it’s your prerogative to support what you will, but i would suggest that because you are deeply brainwashed, you really don’t have a free choice in the matter… whether you recognize that fact or not.

i also suggest that because you are brainwashed you don’t have a clear and broad understanding of what ‘truth’ is, you have your ideas about truth but they are circumscribed by the dictates (no pun intended) of your cult…. this is the blind spot that the sheeple cannot see. here’s a clue for you; truth is not ossified, an aspect of truth is that it has flexibility and fluidity…

an aspect of truth is that we each live out our own truth and in a sense we make it up as we go, we create our own truth partly based on what we believe. hey DC, did you ever consider that ‘conscious bob’ is making up all of this fof nonsense in order to feed his own depraved, insatiable appetites?

where belief comes into the picture in creating truth: each person lives at least partly by their beliefs and an aspect of truth is that it is a confluence of belief and ‘actuality.’ (for now i’ll leave out the part where belief runs into the wall of actuality). you write about ‘truth’ as if it’s an absolute condition and YOU BELIEVE that the fof is the sole source and the fount of truth… for anyone with an open mind this is a patently absurd and delusional notion. you write about ‘truth’ and ‘proofs’ in absolute terms, this is another reflection of the polarized condition of your thinking, you see the world in ‘black and white.’ WAKE UP!

another example of the way you see the world in ‘black and white:’ you write that for the theory of the true believer syndrome ‘to have any merit you would have to prove that truth does not exist…’ this is another absurd statement if you really examine it. look, here’s an apparently difficult lesson for you to learn, the world is not one way or the other…. it’s both, and then some.

and of course you don’t think of yourself as a ‘fanatic’ that’s part of the brainwash. you are ‘on the side’ of ‘truth’ or so you believe, and it only makes sense for you to stand behind what you believe… right? it is after all your prerogative… but do you have a choice? are you really free? if you understood the ‘true believer syndrome’ from the outside perspective you would see the difference.

i’m not here to ‘prove’ anything, and especially not to you, i don’t expect to change your mind. having been in the fof, much like yourself i was deeply brainwashed and ‘asleep’ to the situation and now from my outside perspective, i would hope to shed some light on the trappings of the cult and the brainwashed state you and others like you live in… if not for you (apparently not) then my hope is that my perspective might benefit others who happen to show up here in their search for truth… here’s to exposing the cult mentality — have to thank DC for helping with that.

143. Panorea - December 11, 2008

SOME DECEPTIONS TO KEEP YOU IN THE CULT. THE MORE YOU TRY TO DO WHAT ROBERT ASKS YOU TO DO, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT BECOMES TO DISASSOCIATE YOURSELF FROM THE FOF. DECEPTIONS.

Immortality
Great Miracle
Beginning and ending
Eternal Life
Payment
Ignorance before joining the cult
Ignorance after departure
Truth of ideas
Based on previous systems and schools
Transformation
Necessity of suffering
Presence has no momentum
All other people on the planet are asleep
The Teacher is a higher, enlightened being
You are asleep
You need to awaken
You need to pay in order to awaken

SOME OF THE FOF DECEPTIONS. TRY TO THINK. THINK. THINK. VERIFY. VERIFY. YOU ARE A PERFECT HUMAN BEING. THINK. FEEL. DO NOT BE A BELIEVER. FEEL.

DE DO DO DO, DE DA DA DA that’s all I want to say to you……………

144. Mick Danger - December 11, 2008

7 out of 142 = 4.93% Boring
But I would like to hear from some genuine Bobby-Lovers, if any.

145. dragon - December 11, 2008

I think, I could say everything to DC:

Bullshit-Producer, Honey-Rose, Baby-Pimp, Sleeping-Santa, Diddeldei, Sock-Sucking-Silk-Junkie, Enlightened-BOB-Back-Door-Bootlicker, Great-GO-GO-FOF-Master-Teacher, Bob’s-Sweetest- Nightingale…

He is working like a remote-controlled brain-converter. But don’t you dare, DC- Sweetie, your statements on the Blog are exposing the FOF-methods layer by layer:

So come on, give us some more…..YOU ARE WARNING PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS OF the FOF! BRAVO!

He is so brainwashed, a poignant example for outrageous conditions evoked by the FOF methods.

146. fofblogmoderator - December 11, 2008

141 is newly moderated

147. tatyana - December 11, 2008

re: payment is a principal.

I remember when I heard this ‘truth” the first time. I just moved to Apollo from Russia with 2 small children and was working at the winery. The stress was never ending and I did not have enough rest-money-space etc. At some point at work my blood sugar dropped and I fainted on the floor. When I woke up I was surprised that nobody moved from their places. Everybody continued working as if nothing had happened. I was still shaky and asked if I can take day off and go home. At home someone called me and asked if I need to see a doctor. I was still not sure what is happening, so I accepted help. The student arrived and brought me to the doctor on his car. I was grateful to his help, but I did not realize that it was not enough. When he brought me back home he asked for money and added: “payment is a principal.”

148. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - December 11, 2008

#147: Tatyana:

This is the kind of story that makes me sad. Many people upon leaving the FOF find themselves very angry that they allowed themselves to become so psychologically manipulated. And part of the process of healing is to experience personally the emotional pain we placed on others unconsciously and to forgive ourselves for that.

149. whalerider - December 11, 2008

I realized today that maybe the entire petition doesn’t need to be translated into French to take action against the FOF’s footprint in France, where there are anti-cult laws.

If someone would kindly provide me with the address of the Paris center or any FOF cult house or group home for FOF followers in France, I’ll gladly make a trip to the French Consulate in my city to notify them.

It should be interesting to find out how the French authorities define a cult.

150. Crouching Tiger - December 11, 2008

147. Tatyana

You describe a very unfortunate, but typical example of fellowship behaviour. It’s what happens when the Work exists primarily as a mind exercise, rather than being experienced through the medium of the body. Doubtless DC would rationalize that the students who refused to break off from their daily tasks were ‘practising non-identification’ by not going to your aid. Someone with a proper grasp of the Work would have sprung to your aid with the utmost urgency – the practice of non-identification would simply make that help more efficient, because the emotion would still be in balance with the other centres: the instinctive need to comfort a fellow human being, the mental plan to get you to a hospital etc..

It’s funny how easily the Work is mutated into a quite foreign tool that ignores all common sense. There were always a lot of stories about RB ignoring fatal roadside accidents as he passed them etc.. for the same reason. All it shows is a malfunctioning, imbalanced body in which the centres are not working to the same purpose.

It reminds me of a story I once heard about a photographer who was posing a woman with a tiger for pictures. The tiger started to attack and maul the woman, and what did our hero do? He went on snapping photos ‘for the record’. No doubt he too was admirably free of identification while doing so.

151. Jomo Piñata - December 11, 2008

147/Tatyana

Your story shocks me and makes me feel sad. It demonstrates the corrupting influence of the Fellowship’s exploitative culture. A social norm of basic decency required people to jump up at once and help you, and to take you to the hospital right away if you needed it. A norm of basic decency prevails in American communities generally, but decent behavior was derided in the Fellowship as “mechanical goodness” and circumstances calling for kind and decent behavior were instead treated as an “opportunity to resist feminine dominance.” Vomit, vomit, vomit.

152. No Quiet Zone - December 11, 2008

Ton, thanks for sharing your insights about the FOF. Some of my favorite comments here, over and over. Keep letting it rip.

Peter 134: That’s beautiful. It’s not surprising that your recent posts were completely ignored by the latest shill, as your words point the way to healing and spiritual growth away from the FOF. You summarize it all very concisely.

(Must ignore! Must distract people from what you wrote! Everyone ignore 134! Don’t read it!)

Suzy, I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your honesty. I think it’s no accident that honesty is distrusted in the FOF — it’s dismissed as “mechanical goodness.”

Well, of course it is… Exposing anything about the FOF must be “photographed.” Classic cult mentality. We’ve been there. We’ve seen it from the inside, sometimes in ourselves, and sometimes in our friends. Now we’re seeing from the outside, but guess what, there’s no one “photographing” us out here for mechanical goodness. No one shushing us.

(Imagine Yesri or Bruce giving a fu– if someone shushed them. Uh, no.)

153. loserbaby900 - December 11, 2008

Irony of ironies – the whole idea of awakening is a dream. The arbitrary division of the body into centers – a dream. No such thing as centers. The system is a hodge podge of imaginary ideas designed to sound reasonable to the scientific mind of the nineteenth century. Plausible sounding nonsense. verify everything – show me one person who has woken up or who is even “verifiably” better off after working on themselves for many years. the people who crow the loudest about the system seem the worse off. I think it drives you crazy – too much compulsive focus on self, makes you neurotic. Alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts, porno addicts – these are the leaders of the Fourth Way. I should pay to become like them?

DC, one of your arguments seems to be that because ex-members “once upon a time” believed fervently in the system, that our rejection of it now is somehow suspect. Your logic is bad. At one time people fervently believed that if they sailed into the ocean, they would fall off the edge of the world. Then they sailed and discovered the truth, so they didn’t keep believing in the edge just because they did once before. That would be insane. Not changing your opinion when faced with new evidence – that is the definition of mental illness.

You are peeing all over the blog but don’t be ashamed. One day soon you may find your way to the toilet.

154. harryhindsight - December 11, 2008

Daily Cardigan,

“The only thing you are accomplishing in dealing with my words is to bemoan the fact that I support the FoF. That doesn’t prove anything except that people exist who actually disagree with your views.”

I think we bemoan the fact that you have your head so tightly wedged up your ass that you can’t see the sunshine. We’re just, you know, – sunny bunnies out here, chompin’ on the four leaf clover.

155. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - December 11, 2008

#152: Suzy, I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your honesty. I think it’s no accident that honesty is distrusted in the FOF — it’s dismissed as “mechanical goodness.”

No Quiet Zone: Part of my healing has been seeing my kindness and honesty as a ‘gift’ rather than a robot-like tendency as suggested in calling it mechanical goodness.

156. Panorea - December 11, 2008

Today I was talking with a friend who left about seven years ago. She said there was no compassion at the Fellowship. I thought: There was some warmth then, you have to have a look now…

A few years ago during a meeting in Rome, a student just dropped on the marble floor. I do not think I will even forget the sound the collapsing body produced. I was in a strategic seat (read facing the students, next to the “leader”). There was silence. No one moved. The lady was taken out of the room and the meeting went on. There was no video produced of the event…

We were learning to look through our eyes, surpassing our hearts and souls.

157. Panorea - December 11, 2008

Does anyone have details on that legendary meeting in St. Petersburg? We only heard a few years ago about the fact that during a meeting in Russia, some students asked Robert direct questions about his sex life and his involvement with dozens of Russian students.

158. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - December 11, 2008

#156: One of my most painful moments was when I realized that I had spent all those years learning how to become less sensitive, less loving, and have less compassion for others.

Part of my healing process has been to learn how to forgive myself and everyone else in and out of the FOF for all the silly nonsense that went on, and continues to go on.

159. Walter J. Tanner - December 11, 2008

Crouching Tiger (or was it Ellen?)

I’d love to hear you expand on Robert’s misunderstanding of self-observation!

160. Walter J. Tanner - December 11, 2008

Loserbaby900: “Alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts, porno addicts – these are the leaders of the Fourth Way. I should pay to become like them?”

Right, don’t have to, you can just go do those things for yourself. I think a large number of “spiritual seekers,” however, are also addictive personalities, OCD, and mild schizophrenics. But that is just the somatic consequence of their life-path.

Of course there are no centers, and Gurdjieff is absolutely aware of that. He augurs a personal psycho-spiritual-somatic unity, that one can even call a God or Goddess. The ‘system’ was thoroughly understood by Ouspensky, who unfortunately did not realize it was to be abandoned until his deathbed.

Now I agree that the “crowers” may least understand self-transformation, but I’ve met lots of people who have woken up inspired by Gurdjieff and his lineage, consider myself one. It’s the tricksters path, also called Left-Hand or Tantric.

walter.tanner@gmail.com

161. elena - December 12, 2008

Tatyana,

Just a few months ago, a woman in New York sat at an emergency room begging to be attended. The video shows her falling on the floor and dying there without anyone standing up or the nurses coming out to help her.

No meeting was ever stopped when people fainted and usually someone fainted or had to leave before doing so at almost every one of them. Since I was usually high up in the back I could see them.

That same insensitivity goes on in relation to the boys. Every one knows something weird is going on, but no one ever dares to ask.

The boys
the abortions
the old people
the adults and alcoholism
the adults and depression
the children and the fact that they are basically ignored by the Fellowship even if it lets them in on Sunday.

162. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

160. Walter J. Tanner

“But that is just the somatic consequence of their life-path.”

“Of course there are no centers, and Gurdjieff is absolutely aware of that. ”

“The ‘system’ was thoroughly understood by Ouspensky, who unfortunately did not realize it was to be abandoned until his deathbed.”

“but I’ve met lots of people who have woken up inspired by Gurdjieff and his lineage, consider myself one.”

The first three statements are lies because you can’t possibly know those things, yet you state them as facts, which makes your fourth statement particularly specious.

163. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

160. Walter J. Tanner

“I think a large number of “spiritual seekers,” however, are also addictive personalities, OCD, and mild schizophrenics.”

I think an even larger group of “seekers” are the narcissists. Ya think, nod nod, wink wink?

164. Renald - December 12, 2008

The Universal Law of Mechanics:

First the Tree bad-mouths the Fruits because they left the Tree.

Soon enough we have all kinds of Dearly departed Fruits bad-mouthing the bloody Tree. Whadda ya know! Just verified that what goes around cums around. I must be a philosopher or sumthin`.

What came first, the apple or the tree? (pun intended)

Walter, wanna start a cult? They say Yuba County is a good easy spot. Ya know, no interference there! We could split the profits and spend the winters on a cruise ship on the South Seas. Yeah!
I can just see it now, “All asshore thats goin`asshore! Harrr!

165. elena - December 12, 2008

Tatyana,

I forgot to mention, the woman was there for twenty four hours before she died without help.

166. elena - December 12, 2008

Daily Cardiac: “As I said everyone knows we disagree in principle. Just get on with a legitimate refutation.”

Would you please repeat that to yourself? It’s a good one that you haven’t been able to accomplish here.

We disagree Daily Cardiac and that doesn’t mean that you stand where we stand or that you are equally legitimate in your belief as we or I am. It simply means that you are a sick pimp and I am not, that you are a liar and an abuser and I am not. That you close your eyes to the harm Robert and the Fellowship is doing and we don’t.

Since it is clear that we are not going to come to an agreement could we agree to disagree and move on into another subject dear?
Could you stop repeating yourself? We know you think and act and want to be like a machine but could you have mercy on us and try to keep the repetition for your self?
Could you cope with moving out of your precious agendas in which you are simply notifying the Fellowship members and the rest of us that you are allowed to choose to be a pimp? There is no question about that, no one here is saying you cannot choose to rape people with the justification that there are a lot of rapists out in the world. You can do all those things: they just don’t make you more human or conscious.

You are free to choose to hurt and exploit people and to support those who do it, applaud and fill them with energy. You are free to cheat men into submitting to Robert and women into giving up their babies and brainwash people to spend their income on supporting that but there is a law that will eventually make you experience all the suffering you inflicted on others directly or indirectly, whether you know it now or avoid to think about it. Dur lex is lex.¨We are already aspects of that law because whether you admit it or not the Fellowship and everyone in it has already started suffering the consequences of their actions.

The superficiality of life in the Fellowship will not keep you from experiencing real suffering; all your silk clothing and every cent you paid will leave you equally naked.

One of the best things about being out of the Fellowship is experiencing life on its own terms and not pretending for it to be different. The beauty as much as the sorrow. My godfather is dying and my step-mother, a 63 year old woman, was just diagnosed with advanced cancer. My father is going blind from the drugs that he has to take for his body to accept the implanted kidney. I cherish every second I spend with either one of them. Death is all right, it can come, it’s being together without fear of it that allows us to share life more deeply knowing the little things are the only things that matter. A cup of tea or coffee brought with love and no expectation. No need to thank or pay but allow one to sit there a little longer in the joy of each other’s company and without aim.

You’ve been brainwashed to think that you have to pay for your selves but you do not need to justify your self to be. You can’t ¨pay¨ for your self with money. It doesn’t take bribes. You’ve got to let it be!

All that activity that the Fellowship imposes, those sequences and all the rest of made up excuses to keep you busy are too loud for you to experience your self… or others.

Life is a ¨blessing¨! Allow your self to live!

167. Daily Cardiac - December 12, 2008

Opus 111 – 125:

“They are theories and then there are facts. You repeat the same unverifiable, tautological statements over and over and claim them to be the God-sent truth.”

This statement is emblematic of the ad hominem culture on the blog.

What is ad hominem? Literally it means “against the man.” It is one of the classic obstacles to what life calls critical thinking. I would just call it a classic obstacle to seeing any potential truth in a situation.

It occurs when someone is so against a person or organization, movement, etc. that as soon as one hears anything supportive about the person or organization in question some fault or contradiction is immediately raised. There is no critical examination of the statement on it’s own merit because it’s more important for the opponent to maintain their position rather than to know any possible truth therein.

On this blog, which is composed of about 98% FoF critics (my posts probably represent the other 2%) there is so much complicity that hardly anyone even bothers to quantify/mask/defend their ad hominem argument. Everyone is winking at everyone else.

It is only necessary to say something like “You say those things (or believe those things) because you are brainwashed.” And that serves as a suitable refutation to the author and his/her fellow critics.

You say I “repeat the same unverifiable, tautological statements over and over and claim them to be the God-sent truth.”

First of all I would say all truth comes from God. Secondly I would say you are calling statements I have verified “unverifiable” so I know you are wrong; I don’t have to guess.

It would be reasonable for you to say “I have not verified what DC says he has verified.” It is also somewhat reasonable to say “since I have not verified those things, I doubt that DC has verified them.”

But when a person infers something like “since I have not verified this, I conclude it is unverifiable” – this, to any reasoning mind, appears as a fallacy. And one that is steeped in narcissism.

The process of verification is itself verifiable. If the process of verification were not possible it would have to mean that there is no difference between truth or falsity. The definition of “Verify” is to “confirm the truth of.”

If verification were not possible someone could walk up to me and say aren’t you glad I just gave you the $100 I owed you? But you did not just give me anything? Sure I did. But I could check my pockets to verify there was no $100 there. I could also check my memory to verify nothing was just given to me. The person could still persist. “You must have already lost it because I know I just gave it to you.” But they could only persist at the risk of being thought either “‘off their rocker” or lying, or at best, jesting.

Now if we are equipted to verify small things like the above example, it must surely follow that we are given the ability to verify spiritual truths. We are after all made in “God’s image.” “Ye shall be as a god, knowing good from evil.” (Or truth from falsity)

Of course anyone can lie about verifying something. It’s as easy to say “I have verified RB is conscious” as it is to say “It’s impossible to verify someone else’s consciousness.” It is also easy to delude oneself that one has verified a truth.

But it is equally possible to actually verify a truth, of the normal/earthly kind, or paranormal/spiritual.

The other side of the coin of ad hominem is to believe everything, without questioning, what is said by someone who holds the same position as we do.

Just recently two different people tried to slip past readers obvious falsehoods; one about a supposed conversation about the blog between two students while in line at the Oregon House grocery, and another of a supposed encounter with Robert in some unknown location.

I have no proof of their falsity per se (that kind of proof is impossible on the blog) other than to realize they both defy either logic of human nature, or odds.The one that defies odds also contains blantant factual errors. These questionable comments are not ever challenged due to the ad hominem factor.

There have been several in the past that were equally outrageous/ bordering on the impossible, which went unchallenged by fellow ex members.

The interesting thing about the supposed recent encounter with RB is that it is from someone who claimed to have once been “raped” by RB years ago. In light of the recent statement how much can we believe of the former encounter?

168. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

167. Daily Cardiac

“What is ad hominem? Literally it means “against the man.”……..

What is straw man? Literally it means “the argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position. To “set up a straw man,” one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent’s actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent’s position. While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent’s actual argument has not been refuted.

169. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

As in…”The interesting thing about the supposed recent encounter with RB is that it is from someone who claimed to have once been “raped” by RB years ago. In light of the recent statement how much can we believe of the former encounter?”

or

“The other side of the coin of ad hominem is to believe everything, without questioning, what is said by someone who holds the same position as we do.”

or

“Now if we are equipted to verify small things like the above example, it must surely follow that we are given the ability to verify spiritual truths. We are after all made in “God’s image.” “Ye shall be as a god, knowing good from evil.” (Or truth from falsity)”

Also, as I mentioned, the person’s name is Craig Docktor. Not a member, and no reason or benefit for him to have invented the story. The stated facts occurred. I’ve known him for years and trust him impeccably. I bumped into him and he told me what happened. There was no conversation before that or after that, he just thopught I’d find it interesting. And if you’re so sure, douchebag, his number is listed in Nevada City. Give him a call. As for inferring I’m inventing this, go fuck yourself. The “truth” is there for the plucking. There are enough people who know the “truth” about RB and the FOF. There’s no need for invention.

But, my God, you really are a pompous scumbag.

170. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

Just your baseless refutation of two incidents is a clear example of how deaf dumb and blind one becomes when happily immersing oneself in the sick FOF horseshit.

I don’t expect, and never expected you to change your views one iota. But it’s good for people to see how transparently full of shit you are.

171. harryhindsight - December 12, 2008

Daily Cardigan.

Had another stiffy didn’t you?

“There have been several in the past that were equally outrageous/ bordering on the impossible, which went unchallenged by fellow ex members.”

If you are referring to some of RB’s more acrobatic sexual manoeuvres then finally we agree on something, they can definitely be described as outrageous, bordering on the impossible.
Didn’t you ever wonder why he had a man walking behind him carrying a cushion like some mediaeval dork? You probably just thought it was an expression of narcissistic grandiosity like most people right? Well let me tell you, that bottom of his gets well and truly stretched one way or another very often, so the cushion was no frivolous waste of funds.

Anyway, nice that we got to be chums for a few minutes there.

172. Yesri Baba - December 12, 2008

Back to the flat earth analogy.

As soon as the earth curves everything verified about the universe changes.
The world is constantly curving and the mind is constantly flattening.
DC you are one red hot iron.

173. dragon - December 12, 2008

Reading the idle gossip of the FOF addicted Daily Cardiac, reading his pseudo-intellectual statements, his nonsense rhymes, his attempt to make nonsense of the plan to INFORM the PEOPLE outside the FOF (they are called “LIFE PEOPLE” in the FOF, = human beings, who are “FOOD for the MOON”, who are not able to “evolve a soul”.
According to the FOF doctrine you may look upon all the human beings on this planet EARTH as “ORGANIC MATERIAL”. This is as far as I can see another contemptuous opinion of this Neo-“Religion”/CULT inspired by Gurdjieff but CAVE! not to equate with him, Gurdjieff had no opportunity to resist against the takeover)

I must say:

Your misuse of the human language, your misuse of the informative statements (going behind the sugar façade of the FOF) given by FORMER and PRESENT MEMBERS of the FOF here on this BLOG are NOT tolerable.

It is simply EVIL, I don’t need the superstructure of a religion to use this word, I don’t need any religion, it is EVIL.

And EVIL, requires an answer (and everybody is able to give this answer), the answer is:

NO

Listen to me: It makes no difference to me, that I am right or wrong. I say NO to EVIL!
Here is the border and the FOF knows it has NO OPPORTUNITY TO SPREAD OUT if everybody says NO, those methods belong to the past!

DC you don’t impress anybody on this BLOG apart from the other FOF-FANATICS.

DC, it is no suffering for you to post on this BLOG. It is simply blind hatred, blind rage hidden in senseless chattering and this are the futile efforts of a money-taking and human beings dividing and exploiting MACHINERY called the Fellowship of Friends!

PS What remains in the end especially for you, is your brother! You are misusing the meaning of DIALOGUE because fanatics are simply not willing and not able to dialogue!

And here it comes again, I say NO. NO DIALOGUE! SHOW YOUR FACTS!

And let Tatyana and her children live in peace, it is a long process to overcome the FOF METHODS. You have no power to discredit anybody who honestly informs about those disgusting methods!

The BLOG INFORMS and puts the facts together!

174. elena - December 12, 2008

SHOW YOUR FACTS!

FACTS
no more insensitive blah, blah, blah.

Why are we tolerating the endless justifications?

Why are we tolerating the Fellowship to go on?

Where does tolerance become condoning?

Wasn’t this what we did in the Fellowship?

And yet I would not ban DC but there’s got to be another solution.

Whalerider, did you get the addresses you wanted or do you still need them? I could also visit the French embassy here or at least present a letter supporting yours.

They put two people from scientology in jail already in France.

The Fellowship has never paid taxes in any other country although it get money from every center. They won’t like that in the embassies.

175. Mick Danger - December 12, 2008

dragon:
His heart just isn’t in it; and he still isn’t relaxing.
As my mother used to say to me:
“I feel for you but I just can’t reach you”.

176. Panorea - December 12, 2008

You can safely say that this blog consists of 99% Fellowship criticism and the 1% is doubt. If you read the blog and contribute to it, you have some doubts that creep up from time to time. The fact that you do not just swallow the Fellowship code of silence and try to think even in those limited terms that the Cult offers, gives one hope.

I give DC one more year (given he is a human being and not a couple of students on a salary position doing PR for the FOF…)

177. Mick Danger - December 12, 2008

“The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.” – Steve Biko

178. tatyana - December 12, 2008

I started to doubt that DC is a FOF member. It might be someone like Greg just killing time.
“We are after all made in “God’s image.” “Ye shall be as a god, knowing good from evil.”
What God? The one that is hovering in the room? Which one of 44?

171 ” Didn’t you ever wonder why he had a man walking behind him carrying a cushion like some mediaeval dork? You probably just thought it was an expression of narcissistic grandiosity like most people right? Well let me tell you, that bottom of his gets well and truly stretched one way or another very often, so the cushion was no frivolous waste of funds.”

It is odd anyway. Why wouldn’t he just place the pillow on the chair before people come in? Why he needs it to be carried after him as if he attracts attention to his butt on purpose?

179. whalerider - December 12, 2008

tatyana:
Would you (or anyone) mind posting the address to the Paris Center? I have their phone number from the FOF site.

I’ll be happy to print out the petition and take it to the French consulate in my city.

Does anyone know the names of the Paris Center Directors?

If you could post the names or send them to steve at nogurus@yahoo.com, he can forward them to me.

Thanks.

I am getting tired of banging my head against the wall with DC.

180. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

179. whalerider

“I am getting tired of banging my head against the wall with DC.”

But it feels so good when you stop.

181. Vena - December 12, 2008

As has been said before, the best thing about having D.C. posting here is that it reveals to all readers the warped thinking of the Fellowship and it’s enablers.

182. 411 - December 12, 2008

Hey Whalerider-

I sent some info to you.

183. Daily Cardiac - December 12, 2008

Bruce Levy:

It’s interesting, and predictable, that you countered my claims of ad hominem with the straw man argument. This is also a common evasive tactic of the blog’s.

You could have started off by refuting the ad hominem claim by showing how I was off base with it. But instead you chose to shift the attention away from ad hominem by saying – “Fellow ex members, you don’t have to consider anything he said because he is also under his own fallacy, which is the straw man fallacy.”

“This cancels out his whole posting.”

But this approach is also a fallacy. Even if I am under the straw man fallacy that alone does nothing to diminish any truth I put forward about ad hominem.

Regarding the Oregon House grocery incident; I usually qualify my beliefs. I did say I cannot prove whether it happened or not. My position is that saying something on the blog has nothing to do with proof as anyone can say anything (most statements appear under the cloak of anonyminity, making fabrication all the more appealing.)

Here are the reasons for my doubting the grocery incident ever happened:

I circulate fairly well within the school and I have not had a conversation about the blog with another member for 18 months. There was an initial wave of curiosity about the blog when students first heard about it, but it is a non issue with anyone who has verified Robert’s consciousness or the FoF’s status as a conscious school.

I understand it’s a difficult concept for many ex members to comprehend, but if someone has verified the larger truths the school offers the issues the blog deals with, namely Robert’s private lifestyle, claims of abuse of power, are wholly irrelevant. If a person has not verified Robert’s consciousness everything said on the blog has added relevance.

There is also a taboo of sorts about reading the blog due to some of the comments made by Girard stating he thought the blog was not a good use of students time.

I’m sure students read it, some more than others, some not at all. But it’s not a topic students would be chatting about casually, or seriously, while waiting in a public queue. I write on the blog not to convince you or any ex member to change your attitude about it, but to offer a current member’s viewpoint to anyone reading who may not have any preconceived attitudes about the FoF. They certainly get enough of the critics side.

I’m here knowing there is a significant down side to it. (exactly what Girard talks about. When I feel I have said all I can say I will disappear.)

Imagine how awkward talking about the blog would be in a public queue?

You said they were lamenting the “terrible things” being said on the blog. Student – “Did you read of the fisting incident between Robert and that young Russian student in the Galleria, what do you make of it?” It defies all logic of human nature (especially for people who work on alchemy) to talk about such things in public.

If they came to the store together they would in all likelihood have had this conversation in the car on the way there or leaving. If they met in the store they would have more than likely had it in a back isle. If they met in line it would have been hard to cut to the chase and get right to the point of discussing details of the “terrible things”‘ of the blog in a few moments of waiting in line, and in earshot of strangers.

This is all evidence of a dubiousness to the story. That said I’ll be the first to admit it is not impossible that it happened; just extremely unlikely.

If C D really told you the story and you did not make it up, I would suggest you think harder about the plausibility of it. He may have been telling you what he thought you wanted to hear.

Regarding the name calling you engage in; there is a cause behind that also. Most people, when they are not satisfied with the taste of their food will add a little relish, or hot sauce to it.

You are not satisfied with the implied meaning behind the words I contribute.

On the other hand you know deep down I have the same right to say what I feel as you do to say what you feel. Finally you know you cannot disprove anything I say, or even successfully squash it through a superior logic. So your only recourse is to call names. It’s just what children do. It comes naturally to the lower self, even in its essence.

In sports, the greatest athletes always want to meet other greats on the field of play. They “relish” the competition. They know that only by besting the best will they be considered the best. But I am a nuisance, a pest to you and others, only because you have no answer.

184. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

182. Daily Cardiac

I have no problem with you partaking of the right to say whatever you want here. It’s an open forum. But at the same time, you ARE a douchebag.

The people at the OHG didn’t know my friend. They were speaking to each other. Why would they censor their dialog if they believed the person in line next to them wouldn’t know what they were talking about? They were talking about the terrible blog. Hellooo.

There’s are occasional ad hominem attacks that occur here. I didn’t attack your post to refute how you see the attacks. I was giving a definition of your ploy, just as you gave one for our ploys.

Except for the intellectually feeble, and yourself, your straw man arguments, which make up the bulk of your horse shit, are readily visible. I wished for people to be aware of what you are doing and why it’s not worth the time to refute.

185. No Quiet Zone - December 12, 2008

If two people participate in an argument, there’s no guarantee that either or both of them are sincere. Unfortunately, if one is sincere and the other is insincere, the insincere participant has a key advantage: They don’t need to limit their arguments to facts. They’re willing to say anything, argue anything, claim anything, deny and evade the most pertinent and damaging facts, and use misdirection.

The sincere participant has the added challenge that they will NOT say anything, claim anything, deny or evade anything, or use misdirection just to advance an argument or divert people.

So, if any of you “engage” with this guy, or group of guys or gals, it might be helpful to be aware of that. I agree that the outgrowth of their participation here can be a good thing (exposing the idiocy and insanity of the FOF dogma), but trying to discuss anything of substance with them goes in circles. They will ignore anything of substance — or try to. They will deny the value of opening your eyes.

And seriously… Think about it… IS an argument really needed? It’s right there in front of us… We have a guru, taking loads of cash from naive followers, using it to lure hundreds of young men into sexual relations, removing people from the group if they discuss these facts, using fear of hell and damnation to compel people to remain in the group, predicting the end of the world, creating elaborate and dogmatic “systems” of religious thought to lure people in… and so on.

What argument is needed?

186. Jomo Piñata - December 12, 2008

There was an initial wave of curiosity about the blog when students first heard about it, but it is a non issue with anyone who has verified Robert’s consciousness or the FoF’s status as a conscious school.

In other words, as far as you’re concerned, it doesn’t matter what he does. He could infect people with loathsome diseases, dispatch them to die alone in foreign lands, or display the most atrocious immaturity, and that would not and should not bother you because of your prior “verifications.” Sounds to me like a way of rationalizing simple blindness. But then, I am a “life person.” AWK!

187. fofblogmoderator - December 12, 2008

182 is newly moderated

188. Opus 111 - December 12, 2008

DC

Finally you know you cannot disprove anything I say, or even successfully squash it through a superior logic.

You all know that what you push forward (your “theories”) have nothing to do with logic.

As for superior argument, how about what ‘No Quiet Zone’ just wrote:

And seriously… Think about it… IS an argument really needed? It’s right there in front of us… We have a guru, taking loads of cash from naive followers, using it to lure hundreds of young men into sexual relations, removing people from the group if they discuss these facts, using fear of hell and damnation to compel people to remain in the group, predicting the end of the world, creating elaborate and dogmatic “systems” of religious thought to lure people in… and so on.

I have read that for the past five years or so, REB’s habitual sexual partners are now receiving cash for, and according to their sexual performance. I knew of the “pay as you go” but not this “pay as you come” approach to finances.

189. Yesri Baba - December 12, 2008

“There is also a taboo of sorts about reading the blog due to some of the comments made by Girard stating he thought the blog was not a good use of students time.”

————-

Heck, what would it be taking time away from? Huffing cock and taking it up the ass?
You all don’t need to study anything. You have already verified the deepest mysteries of the universe and all your study is just stuffing new shit into the box you built.
Meeting time should be negligible. 4, 6, breathe, hold, breathe, 44 and the daily brain wash is finished.
I understand the long hours of labor necessary to try to fill the black hole, but surely there is a bit of time available to check out what retarded morons you are.

190. dragon - December 12, 2008

177. Mick Danger

That’s it Mick!

And he is not able to keep in touch
with mind AND heart.

And one day we may read Closing-down sale of DC’s soul.

191. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

DC

One other thing. With your superior mind I’m surprised that you haven’t realized that for a struggling student trying to reconcile what they know with what they’re told , YOU are the last person they are going to come talk to about it (other than your own small cicle of douches). It amazes me to think that you believe you are seen as any more than a fool by both non-members and members. You have nothing to offer a student who is sincerely trying to discover the truth. They’ve already heard all the bull shit that you spout from all the others that are so invested in the status quo.

192. brucelevy - December 12, 2008

Yours are “theories”. The facts are, RB is using members’ money to sate his uncontrollable sickness. He always has. Those are facts. All the rest is pseudo-spiritual obfuscation, the staple of all cults.

193. brucelevy - December 13, 2008

194. elena - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac,

You would not have lost five hundred students already in the past year and a half if it were not because a lot more than you think continue to read the blog. You would not be here if it were not because it continues to affect the Fellowship and members continue and will continue to leave.

The whole group of you working as Daily Cardiac are more pitiful each day.

195. Josiane - December 13, 2008

Daily Card,

Why on earth do you keep doing this! Surely you are not expecting to convince anybody on this blog of your arguments. What is your purpose? My heart goes to you because I think you are struggling, and the deeper one has been in the Fellowship, the harder the struggle to remove oneself from it.

In the spirit of love I wish you well.

196. fofblogmoderator - December 13, 2008

193 is newly moderated

197. James Mclemore - December 13, 2008

DC said :
“I circulate fairly well within the school and I have not had a conversation about the blog with another member for 18 months.”

I find that humorous. Of course people do not speak openly, and perhaps especially to DC, about the blog. Except for conversations between intimate friends, I can well imagine it is not a topic one brings up at the property or at functions. People who are reading the blog and questioning things in themselves and in the fof are not asking questions about it in meetings, or speaking with, as Bruce calls them, ‘the flying monkeys’. One day the DC’s just look around and find that someone else is gone.
I sometimes check the newly joined section on the main page of the GF. Of course I do not know any of these people, but I will click on their page, and often they have recently left the fof. I see many old friends of theirs already greeting them and wishing them well and encouraging them in their new life. Neat stuff!
People are leaving. I have read a number of posts in the different discussions where people have stated that the blog played a part in their leaving.
58 pages and still going quite strong, with an amazingly changing cast of characters. I don’t care what DC says, this blog is having an effect. People are leaving, and I suspect the victim pool is beginning to shrink.
Nice to read your voice again Bruce.

198. dick moron - December 13, 2008

I had to dig through the old blog pages to find this gem from Daily Cardiac, but it is worth revisiting. This guy has to be Ethan Har-is or a clone. Probably not Ethan, since the good “Doctor” is probably overworked prescribing mind-numbing drugs to needy patients in order to keep up with his vigorous FOF donation schedule.
____________________________
Wisdom From DC:

Traveler: “Can you imagine how being in a sexual relationship that is not quite voluntary and consensual, could exist simultaneously with stunted spirituality?”

This is an important point; a stunted spirituality, as my experience tells me, has little to do with difficult externals or unfavorable circumstances or pressure. In fact it’s often just the opposite; where adversity strengthens spirituality. A stunted spirituality has more to do with individual effort or lack of effort. If we make the correct spiritual efforts we will grow in spirit.

One other point of note: People can say no. The importance of this fact cannot be overstated. Like the old drug commercials “Just Say No.” Some people are angry at themselves today because they could not muster the courage to say no and they then transfer that self anger into blame of the asker.

There are many ways to say no to the kind of sex Robert asks for. Robert’s role in sex is well documented. He plays the female part with another male. The other male is required to penetrate Robert which necessitates an erect penis. Generally speaking an erect penis is achieved by being aroused sexually. Arousal usually indicates a desire or ability to engage in sex.

If I were a homosexual male being penetrated sexually by another male I would not have cause to believe the partner was being traumatized as the act of penetration would strongly suggest otherwise. I would be more inclined to believe the partner was being, at least to some degree, stimulated sexually.

I’m a heterosexual male with a normal sex drive. There have been a few instances in my life when a female who was attracted to me wanted sex and I was not equally attracted to her. In most of those cases I could not achieve an erection even though a part of me wanted to go through with it. (I should mention it happened much more that I was the one attracted and the female not so much and I never got the chance.)

I’ve also been in situations where there was some other apprehension (pressure) involved and even though I was attracted to someone and the opportunity was there I could not achieve an erection.

I would think that if a male really felt violated, repulsed or put out by the act he would not be able to achieve an erection and that would have settled that. That would have been a loud and clear NO!

This is something to seriously consider when people use the extreme language that they were “raped” by Robert or that the FoF is a “rape factory.”

Fellatio also falls under this same set of conditions.

What about orgasms? Are people manipulated or coerced into having them?

It is also of note to mention that no one has ever lost any normal privileges by saying no to Robert’s requests for sex. No one has been sent from the school, sent to a faraway center, humiliated, ostracized by other students, prevented from attending meetings or events, or have been restricted in any other way for saying no.
_____________

And the holocaust never happened either.

199. dick moron - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac wrote:

“Robert’s role in sex is well documented. He plays the female part with another male. The other male is required to penetrate Robert which necessitates an erect penis.”
_______________________________________
You should write a book, Dr. Kinsey

Robert will be so pleased to know you understand him.

200. harryhindsight - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardigan,

“You said they were lamenting the “terrible things” being said on the blog. Student – “Did you read of the fisting incident between Robert and that young Russian student in the Galleria, what do you make of it?” It defies all logic of human nature (especially for people who work on alchemy) to talk about such things in public.”

There it is in a nutshell D.C., A healthy human nature tries to prevent suffering of others.
The alchemical snobs in the FOF who place the alchemy buffer between themselves and openness are responsible for allowing a sick man to create a sick little secret in their gold alchemy theme park.

201. harryhindsight - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac,

“I circulate fairly well within the school and I have not had a conversation about the blog with another member for 18 months.”

That’s most likely because you’re viewed as one of the Gestapo fishing for doubters.

202. dick moron - December 13, 2008

DC wrote:

I’m a heterosexual male with a normal sex drive. There have been a few instances in my life when a female who was attracted to me wanted sex and I was not equally attracted to her. In most of those cases I could not achieve an erection even though a part of me wanted to go through with it.
______________

Oh, that was you in the storage room of the gift shop with Margaret….

203. harryhindsight - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardigan,

“if I were a homosexual male being penetrated sexually by another male I would not have cause to believe the partner was being traumatized as the act of penetration would strongly suggest otherwise. I would be more inclined to believe the partner was being, at least to some degree, stimulated sexually.”

You’re forgetting the Viagra shithead! That’s the drug that gives you a hard on, it’s the one Robert has Dor__n to give to the traumatized so that they don’t disappoint the Goddess. But you knew that didn’t you?

204. ton - December 13, 2008

DC around 167 — i’ll give you credit, it appears you are TRYING TO understand the concept of ‘ad hominem’ — pay attention and i’ll give you an example of ‘attacking’ the thinking, and not the man — you wrote: “The process of verification is itself verifiable. If the process of verification were not possible it would have to mean that there is no difference between truth or falsity. The definition of “Verify” is to “confirm the truth of.”

dc, this is not meant as an ad hominem attack, but you ‘speak’ with a forked tongue ‘dude.’ your statement here is an example fof cult double-speak…. it’s part of the brainwashing, it’s a process of being hypnotized by an idea by belief in and repetion of the idea… this notion of ‘verification’ is an fof cult implant, it’s one of their main memes… through the implanting of these memes this cult exerts it’s particular and peculiar form of mind-control. through their beliefs the cultists themselves create the psycoemotionalmoral bars on this prison that is the fof.
the quote from DALY CARD, is an example of the meaningles rhetorical, circular, repetitive, redundant jargon used as a brainwashing tool in the fof.

if you are reading this, please take a minute to look and reflect on the statements quoted here from ‘DALY CARD’…

in my humble opinion, anyone with a trace of common sense can see that these quotes from ‘dc’ are rubbish, absolute and utter nonesense signifying nothing. just more nonsense and bullshit posted here by DC…. HEY DC, thanks for the fertilizer. (for your edification ‘dc,’ the last part was an ‘ad hominem’ attack).

accusations against your ‘beloved teacher’ are consistently, blindly, resisted by you…. DC i’ll ask you a candid question and of course you don’t have to answer…. are you now having or have you had sexual relations with your ‘teacher’?

you wrote and i quote:

“There have been several in the past that were equally outrageous/ bordering on the impossible, which went unchallenged by fellow ex members.”

what exactly are you referring to? by all means please cite examples of which you ‘speak.’

you wrote and i quote:

“The interesting thing about the supposed recent encounter with RB is that it is from someone who claimed to have once been “raped” by RB years ago. In light of the recent statement how much can we believe of the former encounter?”

i’ll give you an example of an ‘ad hominem’ attack: HEY Daily Card… lemme guess… you must be THE JOKER…. right?…… YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT… why? because when you doubt the accounts of others who post here (in this case ‘whalerider’) then you deny truth.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU DUMBFUCK.

imho

P.S.
THANKS TO ALL POSTERS…. don’t be dumbfounded by this dumbfuck…
oops another ‘ad hominem attack’.

205. Vena - December 13, 2008

Not only viagra. I was told by one of the boys that Robert has them look at heterosexual pornography to get them aroused.

206. Daily Cardiac - December 13, 2008

Jomo Piñata – 186:

“In other words, as far as you’re concerned, it doesn’t matter what he does. He could infect people with loathsome diseases, dispatch them to die alone in foreign lands, or display the most atrocious immaturity, and that would not and should not bother you because of your prior “verifications.” Sounds to me like a way of rationalizing simple blindness.”

As far as I know Robert has not done any of the above. Enlightened beings are in the direct service of higher forces/God/Angels/ C Influence, whatever you want to call the spirit world.

Enlightened beings, like everyone else, are playing a role. The only difference is they are aware that it’s a role, and they play it better than most others would play it.

The masses idolize Christ or the Buddha, but if those worshipers were in the presence of their human forms for one minute they would jump out their own skin trying to get away.

Christ said – “I come not for peace, but with a sword.”

Ex members like to call RB a charlatan, pervert, sociopath, whatever, but deep down many understood him to be conscious, and that’s a more unsettling realization because if he is, whom do they appeal to, the god who designed his role?

207. dick moron - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac wrote:

Robert’s role in sex is well documented. He plays the female part with another male. The other male is required to penetrate Robert which necessitates an erect penis.

Robert’s role in sex is well documented. He plays the female part with another male. The other male is required to penetrate Robert which necessitates an erect penis.

Robert’s role in sex is well documented. He plays the female part with another male. The other male is required to penetrate Robert which necessitates an erect penis.

Robert’s role in sex is well documented. He plays the female part with another male. The other male is required to penetrate Robert which necessitates an erect penis.

AWWWK!!!!!!

208. dick moron - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac wrote:

As far as I know….

As far as I know….

As far as I know…

AWWWWWWKK!

209. ton - December 13, 2008

HEY DAILY CARD,
accusations against your ‘beloved teacher’ are consistently, blindly, resisted by you…. i ask again… are you now having or have you had sexual relations with your ‘teacher’??

210. No Quiet Zone - December 13, 2008

Incredible comparison between Vena’s 205 (“Robert has them look at heterosexual pornography to get them aroused”) and the gibberish in 206.

We call Robert Earl Burton a charlatan and sociopath because he is. Nothing “unsettling” about that at all. It’s us opening our eyes.

211. No Quiet Zone - December 13, 2008

“many understood him to be conscious,”
“The other male is REQUIRED to penetrate Robert”
“Enlightened beings are in the direct service of higher forces”
”Robert HAS them look at heterosexual pornography to get them aroused”

“many understood him to be conscious,”
“The other male is to penetrate Robert”
“Enlightened beings are in the direct service of higher forces”
”Robert has them look at heterosexual pornography to get them aroused”

“many understood him to be conscious,”
“The other male is required to penetrate Robert”
“Enlightened beings are in the direct service of higher forces”
”Robert has them look at heterosexual pornography to get them aroused”

Ah, isn’t the Fellowship of Friends such a refined organization of higher knowledge and conscious influence? When you’re thrown a life saver, do you complain about it?

212. whalerider - December 13, 2008

Daily Challenge:
“As far as I know Robert has not done any of the above.”

Burton has hissy fits over cuff links, gave Troy herpes, and sent Richard the hairdresser to die a lonely death of AIDS in Hawaii.

I’ll say it again, your ignorance is appalling! You spend so much time in the “divine present” that you wear blinders about the past. How blissful for you!

“Enlightened beings are in the direct service of higher forces/God/Angels/ C Influence, whatever you want to call the spirit world.”

So by your defintion that would make George W. Bush by his own assertion an enlightened being, too.

“..because if he is…”

That’s a big “if” partner. By the same token, what if Burton is a fraud? It boils down to belief, not verification.

Christ said – “I come not for peace, but with a sword.”

Funny, I said the same about posting on this blog. I’ll remember that one next time, thanks.

“Enlightened beings, like everyone else, are playing a role. The only difference is they are aware that it’s a role, and they play it better than most others would play it”… for themselves.

You are right. The trouble is, totally indoctrinated followers like you don’t realize that you are projecting the role of your inner guru onto Burton who is exploiting this weakness and having a gay ole’ time on your dime.

In the same manner that the hard core followers have totally given their responsibility over to Burton, they are so indoctrinated that the responsibility for actually waking them up now lies in the hands of the ex-followers whom have awakened. So be it.

“The masses idolize Christ or the Buddha, but if those worshipers were in the presence of their human forms for one minute they would jump out their own skin trying to get away.”

And you know this because you were there…?

I’ll tell you a true story about Mother Teresa. A famous person contacted her once asking if they could travel to India to study with her and help the poor. Mother Teresa said, “if you really want to help the poor, take the money you would’ve spent on the airline ticket and give it to the poor in your neighborhood.”

Enlightened beings actually help people in need without exploiting them. That’s how the role is played well.

Let your conscience be your guide.

Ouch, my head hurts! But hey, in time the Berlin Wall eventually came down, too.

213. Yesri Baba - December 13, 2008

“Ex members like to call RB a charlatan, pervert, sociopath, whatever, but deep down many understood him to be conscious”

No, I projected my consciousness onto him.

“and that’s a more unsettling realization because if he is, whom do they appeal to, the god who designed his role?”

Not unsettling at all because that would be me.

214. dick moron - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac :

Enlightened beings are in the direct service of higher forces/God/Angels/ C Influence, whatever you want to call the spirit world.

I was only following orders….

I was only following orders….

I was only following orders….

PEEEEEP!!!!

215. Panorea - December 13, 2008

Quoting DC:
“As far as I know Robert has not done any of the above. Enlightened beings are in the direct service of higher forces/God/Angels/ C Influence, whatever you want to call the spirit world. ”

This is very different to what you have been saying so far. We are coming closer…Do you suggest that if someone you would trust (not all those ex-students here at the blog) told you about Robert’s crimes, you would believe them and you would be ready to change your mind about him being a conscious being? Actually, looking into some of your arguments the main thing you have been screaming is that no matter what Robert does, he does it because he lives according to different moral standards that the average human being. Now, you are denying being aware of his deeds.

If you KNEW WITH CERTAINTY he is a criminal, would you keep on believing he is a conscious being? Would you want to be associated with him in any way?

If you answer is positive, I can give you some “prominent” names in the FOF who would not lie about Robert’s acts. But you need to have the courage and go and ask them.

You are lying about your involvement in the FOF, or you are inventing your character in order to “sell” your version of the FOF. Up to a month ago, the council and all students knew about the blog and they feared it. I know there are people whose job is to check the blog and see what is there. There are people from the FOF who check the GF as well. There are students who edit wikipedia. Challenge me on this if you want. I am sure I have “circulated” more than you in the FOF.

216. aline - December 13, 2008

#149 – Whalerider
“I realized today that maybe the entire petition doesn’t need to be translated into French to take action against the FOF’s footprint in France, where there are anti-cult laws.
It should be interesting to find out how the French authorities define a cult.”

Hello Whalerider,
I wanted to answer to you before but I was taking care of my husband who was having strong back problems.
actually he contacted already a very known french anti cult organization which lists the fof as a cult (french name for the fof = rassemblement des amis).
He did that a few months ago already, may be even one year ago.
Here is the link of this organization under the rubric :
http://www.prevensectes.com/gurdj12.htm#9

Are you french?

217. aline - December 13, 2008

#149 Whalerider
You will have to check in the next post modarated by the fof blog moderator to see my answer about the anti cult organization in France.
I think it is modarated because of the link contained in it.

218. dragon - December 13, 2008

DC, I am living so many years on this planet and I travelled “the seven seas” but I had still not an encounter with Christians who were IDOLIZING Christ or Buddhists who were idolizing the Buddha.

The MASSES in your post are YOU!

IDOLA (Eidola (eidôla), unconsciously you have chosen the appropriate word and you will never be able to understand the phenomena of which you are witness as long as your powers of perception are rude and imperfect in the literal sense of Democritus.

Try to vanish from the scene for a day or two, make 15 minutes per day a sort of contemplation, try to get clearer.

What may we (the BLOG) do to help you?

The BLOG doesn’t use FOF methods and this is YOUR chance!

219. aline - December 13, 2008

#149 Whalerider
There is no more teaching house and each student is living now in his own personal appartement.
They do meetings in one appartement or the other.
I think they are 19 students (5 of them never coming) so 14 is more exact.
Generally they are 6 or 8 people at meetings
It is a very small center, when I joined there we were 85 students.
If you wish more informations you can contact me through the GF.

220. Panorea - December 13, 2008

To Thine Own Self Be True

Yet here, Laertes! Aboard, aboard for shame!
The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,
And you are stay’d for.
There … my blessing with thee!
And these few precepts in thy memory
Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportion’d thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch’d, unfledg’d comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel but, being in,
Bear’t that th’ opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man’s censure, but reserve thy judgement.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express’d in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man;
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.
Neither a borrower, nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell; my blessing season this in thee!

— William Shakespeare

221. Jomo Piñata - December 13, 2008

Liver, kidney, whatever. Real maple syrup? Pip, pip, pip, pip, pip. My lips move. Your ears work. Doors will shut. AWK!

222. Jomo Piñata - December 13, 2008

Level of animals. Go to the end of the line. Ow, ow, my pillow. Full-grown azalea. AWK!

223. Daily Cardiac - December 13, 2008

ton – 204:

DC – “The process of verification is itself verifiable. If the process of verification were not possible it would have to mean that there is no difference between truth or falsity. The definition of “Verify” is to “confirm the truth of.”

ton – “dc, this is not meant as an ad hominem attack, but you ’speak’ with a forked tongue ‘dude.’ your statement here is an example fof cult double-speak…. it’s part of the brainwashing, it’s a process of being hypnotized by an idea by belief in and repetion of the idea… this notion of ‘verification’ is an fof cult implant, it’s one of their main memes… through the implanting of these memes this cult exerts it’s particular and peculiar form of mind-control. through their beliefs the cultists themselves create the psycoemotionalmoral bars on this prison that is the fof.
the quote from DALY CARD, is an example of the meaningles rhetorical, circular, repetitive, redundant jargon used as a brainwashing tool in the fof.”

Now you quoted me above and as I read your response I kept waiting for you to attempt to deconstruct or refute the statement – match your logic against mine to show why my comment is not a valid one.

If you read your reply carefully you will see that you simply threw around a lot of fancy terms like “psycoemotionalmoral,” “cult double-speak”, etc. but actually did not do one thing to discredit my statement or show why it is not true.

To simply state that someone else writes what they write because they are brainwashed means nothing; anyone can write anything they like. You’ve just strung out a lot of assumptions and because there are a handful of others here who agree with you you use that as a springboard to legitimizing those assumptions.

You must subscribe to the Descartes school of logic – “I think it is so, therefore it is so.”

ton – “this notion of ‘verification’ is an fof cult implant”

So, what you are saying here, that people cannot confirm the truth of something? That the process of verifying is not accessible to people but it’s the contrived “notion” of a cult?

Do you really believe you have shown any evidence that would in any way dispel my comments about verification? I don’t for a moment buy the idea you don’t believe in the process of verification. It is obvious it’s desperate attempt on your part to delegitimize the FoF.

224. dragon - December 13, 2008

DC,

POOR BOY!

225. fofblogmoderator - December 13, 2008

216 is newly moderated

226. No Quiet Zone - December 13, 2008
227. No Quiet Zone - December 13, 2008

From a recent CNN article:

“People will do almost anything in a group and will do anything not to be rejected,” said psychologist Philip Zimbardo, a professor emeritus at Stanford and famous for his 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment, which divided student volunteers into “prisoners” and “guards” and showed how easily people could be induced to commit sadistic acts.

“They give up a sense of personal accountability and diffuse responsibility to the leader.”

228. nigel harris price - December 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac

“Would some power the giftie gie us
To see ourselves as aithers see us.” (Robert Burns)

Look at yourself before you try to influence others…..Nigel,

229. fofblogmoderator - December 13, 2008

226 is newly moderated

230. Susan Zannos - December 13, 2008

What is the url space?

231. Daily Cardiac - December 13, 2008

No Quiet Zone – 227:

NQZ – From a recent CNN article:

“People will do almost anything in a group and will do anything not to be rejected,” said psychologist Philip Zimbardo, a professor emeritus at Stanford and famous for his 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment, which divided student volunteers into “prisoners” and “guards” and showed how easily people could be induced to commit sadistic acts.

“They give up a sense of personal accountability and diffuse responsibility to the leader.”

This is what I’ve been saying – there is no such thing as cults or cult leaders.

Cults and cult leaders are inside all of us, as this random experiment illustrates.

When we join a group we bring the cultist into it. And when we leave a group we take the cultist with us.

232. Draco - December 13, 2008

DC/231
“When we join a group we bring the cultist into it. And when we leave a group we take the cultist with us.”

No. When we enter a cult we become cultists. When we leave it we are no longer cultists. We would become cultists again if we entered another cult.

Not every group is a cult. I’ve joined a society with a particular cultural emphasis. It’s not a cult. If I decide to leave I can still be friends with the teachers and fellow students. The teachers work for free and the hourly payments are low. I can disagree with the teachers and I’ve switched teachers several times. If I don’t turn up for a few weeks in a row no one tells me that I’m moving to the outer circle. I’m not encouraged to abandon my friends or family outside of this group and there’s no encouragement to marry within the group. The president of the society doesn’t coerce members into sex or siphon off the money. He’s not seen as a different level of being, he’s just someone who has been willing to invest time in the running of the society. If i give up my interest in the subject I am not seen as being damned.

Humans form groups. Most of these are not cults. But some of them, including the Fellowship, are cults.

233. No Quiet Zone - December 14, 2008

“personal accountability.”

Study those words.

234. ton - December 14, 2008

DAILY CARD…
re: debate or ‘deconstructing’ your arguments… it’s a waste of time and energy to debate or argue with someone who believes they have ‘cornered the market’ on truth…. personally i don’t have to prove anything to you, i’m not into ‘proofs’ but ‘proof’ is a word you throw around a lot here, it’s one of your compulsive recurring themes… your need for the ‘certainty’ and ‘certitude’ of ‘proof’ strikes me as an attempt to bury the simple fact that living life, this air-breathing existence we experience, is an uncertain and ‘mysterious’ condition… for comfort you look to your daddy robot to fill in the blanks of your uncertainty…. he tells you bedtime stories about where you go when you die, and so you sleep all the more soundly. i’ve written before that i’m not here to change your mind. i have no inclination to deconstruct or examine your bullshit… there is really no need to go that far…. people with common sense will recognize the bullshit by it’s smell, they can stand at some distance and don’t have to go digging around in it to know what it is….

you don’t understand… i didn’t expect you would get the point due to the dream state you exist in…. re-read my previous post and you’ll see that i said you wouldn’t get it…. i also wrote that it would only take a modicum of common sense to see the fof pablum nonsense you write and specifically in this case about ‘verification,’ for what it is; a psuedo intellectual circular argument, it signifies nothing…. that’s as far as the ‘deconstruction’ need go….that shit about “verification” is just another empty and meaningless tautology… a suggestion for you DC: read the following quote and then go back and re-read some of that nonsense you wrote…. but i don’t expect you’ll get it.

“rhetorical tautology – a series of statements that comprise an argument, constructed in such a way that the truth of the proposition is guaranteed. Consequently the statement conveys no useful information regardless of its length or complexity. The statement “If you can’t find something (that you lost), you are not looking in the right place” is tautological. It is true, but conveys no useful information.”

like i ‘said’ i’m not here to prove anything but what i attempt to do is point out mind-control tactics used by the fof cult… and you DC, happen to be an example in action…. if you feel that responses here are ‘ad hominem,’ just keep in mind this isn’t about you (being a narcissistic fool you won’t get this either)…. yet you continue to set yourself up for attack here, you’re like a clay pigeon but i’m sure this somehow satisfies your martyr complex and so the beat goes on. the fof sheeple are implanted with notions, loaded with memes such as in the example of “verifying verification” — the cultists’ inner world is filled with ideas that in effect ‘control attention’ and behavior…. the ‘sequence’ for example. ideas like ‘verification’ are connected to suggestions issued by the cult leader… implanting suggestion is a means of mind control in the cult, the good little cultist devotes himself faithfully to ‘verifying verification’ and other such ‘exercises’ and nonsense and the more diligently the ‘student’ follows the various suggestions of the cult, the deeper the sleep, the more pervasive the brainwash becomes. tautologies, the circular arguments one reads again and again from the shill here… this is a dog chasing it’s own tail. due to the blind spots produced by brainwashing i don’t expect DC to get it… perspective is severely impacted by involvement in the cult.

i’ll paraphrase something relating to the brainwashed condition… if you don’t like the word ‘brainwashed’ how about hypnotized? “because of the brainwashing and mind control you are unprotected by conscious thought. hypnosis is relinquishing control of your mental faculties, it’s a distinctive, often trance-like mental state that is induced by an organized pattern of suggestions, usually verbal in nature, beginning with the suggestion…. although the long held popular view was that hypnosis is form of unconsciousness, the informed contemporary view is that it is actually a wakeful state of focused attention and heightened suggestibility, with diminished peripheral awareness…. (the cultists are programmed to be narrow minded that serves the purpose of mind control). hypnosis changes subjective experience, alters perception, sensation, emotion, thought, behavior…. ”

all of this bullshit from dc is avoiding answering the question regarding whether he’s allowed robot burton to ‘drink at his fount’ DC you didn’t answer the question did you…?
is robot burton sucking your pee pee?

235. elena - December 14, 2008

Glad you posters still have something to say! Congratulations. I’m so tired of the subject. Daily Cardiac is such a poor specimen of the Fellowship. A faithful, typical one but Oh such poverty.

Panorea, thanks for your input. Hopefully more people like you will get serious.

Been looking at land. The Andes are beautiful! Projects in mind!

236. James Mclemore - December 14, 2008

ton
I am sure you are right. DC will not be able to hear it, but that was a brilliant post, and hopefully there are those that are ‘listening in’, that may hear just enough of what your are saying to get a glimpse of the trap, and then, just maybe, there is that unraveling that can begin.

237. whalerider - December 14, 2008

aline:
Thanks for the very useful information about how the FOF keeps a low profile in France.

Give my regards to your husband and I hope his back feels better. Please thank him for his efforts on my behalf. The link you provided will come in very handy as a cross reference. I’ll email fofblogmoderator and request that the link be put at the top of each page of the blog for the French connection.

By any chance did he contact anyone in the French Government responsible for enforcing the anti-cult laws?

My new girlfriend owns a house with a vineyard in a small town in Burgundy and speaks French fluently. She also happens to be a lawyer. We are planning a trip there in the spring…to do some pruning of the vines. Interesting sychronocity…

238. nigel harris price - December 14, 2008

237 whalerider

On your ‘synchronicity’ thing – I have just had my appendix out – very painful, but I feel more energetic and ‘lighter all round’ for it. Nasty, big, black thing the doctor told me…..Nigel.

239. Daily Cardiac - December 14, 2008

ton – 234:

“i’m not into ‘proofs’ but ‘proof’ is a word you throw around a lot here, it’s one of your compulsive recurring themes”

One of my recurring themes is that nothing stated on the blog can be proved or disproved.

You say you aren’t into proof but you respond as though every word you write has been proven outside of yourself.
There’s a contradiction afoot.

240. ton - December 14, 2008

daly card
i respond here with my own truth and understanding.
as for ‘proving’ anything ‘outside of’ myself… that’s not my intention, what you are doing again here is projecting your fetish for ‘proof’ onto what i write.

the contradictions you see are your own.

you still didn’t answer the question

241. ton - December 14, 2008

dc
has ‘conscious bob’ bobbed your knob?

242. ton - December 14, 2008

elena, what projects are in mind?
i hope to see the Andes some day…

243. harryhindsight - December 14, 2008

Daily Cardigan.

Free your mind, your ass will follow. – George Clinton.

244. Panorea - December 14, 2008

Hey……………this one looks like a duplicate of the FOF, or are they trying to slowly give fof a new appearance and a new name. The same methods of fishing prospective students, the same vague form of informing others, even the images are there.

Search Term: “pathwaytopresence”

Staying in the fof is one way to waste ones life, creating another duplicate group after you leave the fof is the apotheosis.

245. Panorea - December 14, 2008

THIS IS AN EMERGENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I made a fast comparison of the phone numbers on the Fellowship of Friends web site and the phone numbers of that new PATH WAY TO PRESENCE web site. They are identical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is obviously a way of trying to attract new students and not being associated with the Fellowship of Friends.

What a criminal organization!!!!!!!!!!!!!

246. Panorea - December 14, 2008

I am sending a following message with the web site but I know it will take some time to be posted here.

I do not know how but I feel we need to act on this.

247. Panorea - December 14, 2008
248. Yesri Baba - December 14, 2008

Devil’s Dictionary

Verification: The process of internalizing dogma. Self brainwashing.
Most spiritual traditions don’t have the dogma of verification so their precepts are not true. The 4th way tradition, however, has as one of it’s central tenets the word verification. Therefore, every idea presented within this system of thought once internalized by a participant becomes absolute unchanging truth.

Those outside of this tradition see this as retarded. Those inside have verified it is not, they have verified verification. The verity of verified verification cannot be proven but has been verified by those within which the verification has been verified and can be verified by talking with someone who has verified the same verifications and has him or herself verified verification.

249. dragon - December 14, 2008

PEOPLE WHO ARE VISITING THIS BLOG:

BE AWARE: THOSE PHONE NUMBERS mentioned below are THE PHONE NUMBERS
OF THE FELLOWSHIP OF FRIENDS:

THIS IS NO NEW ORGANIZATION OF THE FORTH WAY!

Please read ABOUT THE machination OF THIS group. People in all countries are working to inform about the FOF that tries to destroy the lives of its members via religious brainwashing analogous (in a wider sense) to scientology methods.

This group, the FOF is changing his appearance like a chameleon. It recruits also young men from Russia, Romania, Poland and other “ex-communist” countries who are highly educated but in an economically pretty bad situation.
Those young men will have to (if Robert E. Burton derives pleasure from their body) go into his HAREM (“voluntary”) and they will be sexual exploited.

We have a strong spiritual follower of the FOF on this BLOG, Daily Cardiac, he will deny and/or impede the facts as usual.

The new
Website:___________________________________________________________

“To sign up for an introductory meeting, call the phone number listed or write to one of the e-mail addresses.

New York 1 (877) 755-0428 newyork@pathwaytopresence.org

Washington D.C. 1 (301) 704-7163 washington@pathwaytopresence.org

Atlanta 1 (770) 346-0460 washington@pathwaytopresence.org

Los Angeles 1 (800) 642-0212 losangeles@pathwaytopresence.org

San Francisco 1 (800) 642-0212 sanfrancisco@pathwaytopresence.org

Sacramento 1 (800) 642-0212 sacramento@pathwaytopresence.org

Palo Alto 1 (800) 642-0212 paloalto@pathwaytopresence.org

For those who join our work, for new students we go more into depth on:
1. Practicing presence and supporting the higher self…”

__________________________________________________________________

PLEASE BE AWARE the FOF will also probably change its appearance (WEBSITE) and course of action in other European cuntries and all over the world!

250. Panorea - December 14, 2008

Imagine this:

Every month You pay a good amount of money to be in a spiritual school, to have a spiritual teacher, to meet other beings who will support your desire to awaken. Then, you find yourself writing PROPAGANDA for the group you joined, spending hours of your life cleaning up the mess your so-called teacher has created, lying, cheating. What a wonderful world you have just entered dear.

By the way, the existence of the “pathwaytopresence” org website does not seem to be common knowledge within the fellowship of friends. There were few who just thought of the concept and implemented it.

A tip: next time you want to get involved in a fraud, try to do it in the right way: it will cost you a bit more money but if you buy a new cellular phone for each center you will be more invisible. Good luck with the wonderful choices you are making. Paradise is just one more crime ahead. Who knows what the next challenge will be?

251. aline - December 14, 2008

230. Susan Zannos
What is the url space?

Post # 216

252. Crouching Tiger - December 14, 2008

27 Yesri.

The fellowship has nothing to do with 4th Way tradition, as the new ads (above) prove. It (He) just assumes whatever pose it thinks will draw the biggest crowd.

As for verification, I’ve been in a gurdjieff teaching for eighteen months and haven’t heard the word once. You’re tilting at a windmill there.

253. nigel harris price - December 14, 2008

251 Crouching Tiger

I sense desperation on the part of the FOF creeping in…..Nigel.

254. Crouching Tiger - December 14, 2008

Nigel.

You may very well be right. Before I left, they were re-organising the website so that there was more talk of ‘presence’ and less of the more esoteric aspects – to widen their market and become less 4th Way specific. Bookmarkers were instructed to leave bookmarks in a much wider selection of books than had been the case… All religious books, all ‘B-influence’, even Shakespeare and Milton and Rilke were being bookmarked!

The description of the school as a chameleon, changing shape to suit the times, is very apt. I recall one student telling me that they felt under pressure from the ‘Alpha Course’ people and felt they had to build up their profile. It shows how they think of the fellowship, as a business that needs to be marketed aggressively and ‘sold’ to people. But when I told them that, you should have seen the offended looks!… But then the outside of the school and its structure have always been stronger than the inside, the substance.

255. elena - December 14, 2008

Panorea and all,

The news about pathway to presence is significant. Not surprising since Robert has ALWAYS had that technique of changing the names whenever bad publicity is coming his way. He’d change his own name if he could!

That information ought to be at the top of the blog pages for any non member to be aware of the connection. If we can pay ads where ever those ads appear we should make a fund to counteract that propaganda. In fact, we should make a fund to fight the Fellowship anyway.

Maybe the five hundred in the Greater Fellowship who are not interested in destroying them would be interested in helping them and would be willing to put some money to that. Money to help find a different solution to that of the Fellowship. I bet that if many of the enablers saw another way to survive out of the Fellowship they would leave immediately.

In fact the land project I have could connect to that although it had nothing to do with it when I thought about it.

Ton, thanks for asking. I’ll give you a brief description of the idea here but I’ll put a website soon and try to expose it in detail somewhere else.

It looks like the paramilitary and guerrilla groups have both been disbanded in most areas of Antioquia, the state I live in, and many other areas of Colombia. For the past two years in even the most violent areas it has been peaceful and people are rebuilding. During the violence people were selling their land for nothing. Nothing as in 250 dollars per hectare ((hek’târ, –tär) [key], abbr. ha, unit of area in the metric system, equal to 10,000 sq m, or about 2.47 acres.)

A man who bought for six thousand dollars four years ago, was offered thirty five thousand last year and could sell for around seventy thousand this year. He was not interested in selling.

Land is going up extremely quickly and there are a lot of people selling. Many old farmers who do not have money to invest and make them profitable. Many young farmers in the same situation.

Yesterday close to the town a man was selling 9 hectares for 100 thousand dollars with installation for milking cows and a small house. It was a pretty little farm at the edge of the town.

Thirty minutes away from the town of Gomez-Plata, a man is selling sixty hectares for 80 thousand dollars. It is a beautiful land with immense views of the Andes mountain ranges with even a big lake far away in the distance. I’ll post pictures eventually in another website. It has lots of water and an abandoned coffee plantation, an ugly small house and enough room for 150 cattle head if it were in its prime. The only thing I didn’t like is that they’ve cut so many trees for cattle grazing that the mountains are in bad condition. The land is still allowing for a great variety of crops though.

There are of course, even today, areas of Colombia in which that same deal could cost a million dollars. There’s a lot of money here which is what guarantees some success for everyone in the long run.

I’m interested in developing biodynamic farms. Of course, what I’m interested in is helping our world stand on its feet! So the deal is that four of us invest one hundred thousand dollars each for five years for fifteen hectares of land and at the end of those five years you get a developed farm for your disposition. If you don’t like Colombia you can sell it with the new improvements and the increase in land or keep it. The catch is that while you take advantage of the cheap labor of Colombia to have a beautiful and cheap place for vacations and maybe a huge profit in the long run, we take the profits from the crops and probably a percentage of the land at the end of the five years for the workers so that instead of getting the minimum wages here that can never let them improve their social condition, they end up with a small farm of their own. The fact that you’ve helped them makes you a much loved neighbour, not an enemy. The investor could still sell for probably twice the price if that is what he wanted or continue profiting from the investment for himself. So basically you would be buying a ¨life solution¨ for both your self and another family.

In terms of being afraid to invest as a non Colombian, Colombians tend to think people from abroad are such an interesting rarity that it gives one a little shame how humble we get. It use to happen to me too. That was part of falling in the Fellowship trap. People here know how to serve and to serve with their soul. It is not just a monetary “professional” transaction. The tradition has been that of a few powerful landlords with lots of peasants working for them. There is a lot of that still but the country is changing so rapidly it is very interesting what is happening here. The difficulty I’ve seen for Americans living here is that they don’t understand or want such humble attitude. They do not know how to be served! How to be loved! How to be bosses in the same terms. They usually don’t know how to establish a human emotional connection although there is also an extremely exploitative relationship at the same time. They don’t understand spontaneous expressions of love so they tend to get uncomfortable and reject the services until they manage to establish a relationship of distant respect.
People still serve them willingly and over time the limitations are overcome.

In this project that I would like to call ¨Transparent Dialogue¨ amongst people the aim would be to be Professionals with Love!! so that by the end of the five years, there is a real benefit for everyone involved! The Farmers I would be working with have been connected to my family for forty years. They do organic farming because they often don’t have the money for chemicals so they are not too far from adapting to biodynamic farming. Of course it’s a lot of work no matter what!

I realize the blog is ever so boring on Daily Cardiac’s heels that I’m happy to post this here but I’d be sending more private information to anyone interested if you write me at ludotekaatsucceed.net

I would be able to work with at least twenty investors in the next five years.
I would like to develop a similar project next to the coasts. Caribean and Pacific. It’s a beauty!

Hope you are all having fun and being much loved!

256. aline - December 14, 2008

#237 Whalerider
By any chance did he contact anyone in the French Government responsible for enforcing the anti-cult laws?

Hello Whalerider,
I don’t think that the FOF keeps a low profile in France, I think that the Paris center is just disintegrating little by little.
It was already dead two years ago when I left.

Concerning the french govnerment, they have a new government departement which is taking care of that.
the name is in French: La mission interministérielle de lutte contre les sectes (M.I.L.S) and the contact is:
miviludes@miviludes.pm.gouv.fr
Personnally, I think associations like “prevent sectes” are generally more active and efficient than the government, that is why we contacted them instead.
We did send them (to prevent sectes) the link to the blog and they add it to their web sites, but they refused the think to the petition for legal reasons (they are here only to inform)
I hope I answer your question.

257. Panorea - December 14, 2008

To our moderator:

The Italian blog has added the new website on their page.

Can we have this addition here too?

I am sending an email to both Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

Is this action of hiding the Fellowship of Friends behind a website related to a Fourth Way school and not mentioning anything about the relation between that fancy “pathwaytopresence” organization and the FOF not an indication of a Cult mentality?

How do current members feel about this lie right there on their faces? Any theories coming from you DC?

258. Jomo Piñata - December 14, 2008

Corporations are supposed to identify themselves whenever they act. That’s part of the deal–they say who they are, they get limited liability. If they don’t say who they are, they don’t get limited liability. Which means if someone gets hurt, the bank accounts and other assets owned by the individuals who did the hurting may have to answer.

Because the Fellowship is thought-reform environment, and may be engaging in deceptive recruitment, people who have been deceptively recruited and damaged in some way may be able to bring lawsuits. If you feel you were deceptively recruited into the Fellowship and sustained injury, including psychological injury, and have recently left, you may be able to sue. Consult a California lawyer and find out what your rights are.

259. 'I see' said the blind man - December 14, 2008

The Pathway to Presence site sates that it was created by the FOF on the home page which is defined as an esoteric school, not a church. I wonder if this might cast doubt on the FOF’s tax exempt status?
If there is someone out there with the right skill set and inclination it could be a good idea to save the site and hosting reference as the site could be taken off line.
Interesting that under the credits for the home page we have ‘Gayland’. Seems like a sign from influence C.

260. harryhindsight - December 14, 2008

There’s an Italian version too!

http://la-presenza.it/

261. harryhindsight - December 14, 2008

From the pathwaytopresence web-site

“New York Center Events

After participating in the two introductory meetings those interested may also contact us to experience:

• a museum tour where we explain the inner meaning of selected pieces of art

newyork@pathwaytopresence.org

I bet that’s hysterically funny! Anyone in New York up for comedy hour?

262. Renald - December 14, 2008

Here is an answer than I sent in to a question re. whether the universe has a plan and therefore nothing we do has any consequence. It makes perfect sense to me from my perspective at this moment and includes how I perceive my time in the Fellowship of Friends. Maybe this is not the best place to repeat it, but who knows! I do it with a pure heart and a clear conscience.

“When a seed is planted, germinates, begins to grow, it will certainly have tendencies as to its future built in. However it does not grow inside an environment which is controlled and conditions may come around which will stress it in some way or other. The “ desires “ of the plant will cause it to strive for survival, to reach for sunlight, for water, for a different ambient temperature, or whatever. This can lead to an evolution of the species. Humans are no different except for one thing, the emotions. The emotions are guiding lights which let us know whether what we are doing is consistent with our desires or “ wants “ .

Yes there is a plan or design. The plan is expansion, more. This applies to everything in the universe including thoughts, or rather especially thoughts. That is it. Whether a human decides to go along with or against that plan has little consequence for the universe, but on the scale of one human being or one cell for that matter is a different story. It is different only from a point of perspective or point of view. Usually when things start going wrong, a creature will make efforts to find a new plan for itself. If not, going in the wrong direction will cause suffering and physical death. Naturally, what else could happen?

Personally I was following such a direction, as many others have, and when I realized what was going on I decided to make a major change. Whether the first major change I made was 100% the best choice is a joke. In some ways it was great, in other ways it was terrible. But life goes on and another change takes place and another and another, all with some positive results. Looking back, it seems like a dream but one which I would not even think of repeating because where I am now feels much better.

There is no contradiction in logic in the choices which I made. However if a person gets stuck in any one direction, there is a good chance that it will become obsolete and have the result which we often fear so much that it becomes the sooner rather than the later.

Again our perspective is shallow. As my mother often says, we cannot see what is hanging from our noses. Yet, no matter, on some level All is Perfect. “

263. Daily Cardiac - December 14, 2008

I see – 258:

“The Pathway to Presence site sates that it was created by the FOF on the home page which is defined as an esoteric school, not a church. I wonder if this might cast doubt on the FOF’s tax exempt status?
If there is someone out there with the right skill set and inclination it could be a good idea to save the site and hosting reference as the site could be taken off line.
Interesting that under the credits for the home page we have ‘Gayland’. Seems like a sign from influence C.

“Church” is just one designation for a religious organization. There are also Mosques,Temples, Monasteries, Shrines, Spiritual/Esoteric Schools, etc.

I’m not a lawyer but personally I don’t think any legal status is being jeopardized.

You are probably right about “Gayland” being a C Influence shock; true happiness is presence.

264. No Quiet Zone - December 14, 2008

Renald, it sounds like you’re over-thinking it a bit, over-analyzing. Don’t complicate it. One word that stands out in your post (in the second to last paragraph) is the word “fear.”

Fear and superstition are largely what makes organizations like the FOF possible. It’s fear that creates secrecy in the FOF, fear that prompts someone to change a website URL to keep the organization hidden from scrutiny and accountability, and fear that discourages open discussion with the cult. And fear that prompts someone to stay.

265. No Quiet Zone - December 14, 2008

Fear discourages open discussion “within” the cult, I meant to write.

266. Yesri Baba - December 14, 2008

251 Crouching Tiger

My bad. Probably should have said something like the fof’s use of the 4th way tradition.
Probably best not to look for an abundance of accuracy in my rantings. I would have thought that to be obvious by now.

267. fofblogmoderator - December 14, 2008

247 & 260 are newly moderated

The link and name to the new FOF “prospective student” site (pathway to presence) will be posted here starting with the next page
(part 59).

268. No Quiet Zone - December 14, 2008

Regarding the new URL: It’s definitely a type of deceptive marketing. Fresh branding and fresh marketing campaigns are typical when people are trying to sell a product, whether it’s salvation from Hell — or toilet paper.

Like other marketing organizations, there’s quite a lot of deception and selling going on in the FOF:

The following is from a PBS documentary called “The Persuaders”:

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: Ad strategist Douglas Atkin, an expert on the relationship between consumers and brands, says he had a eureka moment one night during a focus group.

DOUGLAS ATKIN: I was in a research facility watching eight people rhapsodize about a sneaker. And I thought, “Where is this coming from? This is, at the end of the day, a piece of footwear.” But the terms they were using were evangelical. So I thought, if these people are expressing cult-like devotion, then why not study cults? Why not study the original? Find out why people join cults and apply that knowledge to brands.

[FALUN GONG MEMBER: I’m loyal to this practice because it’s done so much for me.]

DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: If Atkin could find what pushed a person from mere fan to devoted disciple, perhaps he could market that knowledge… So he compared dozens of groups he considered cults with so called “cult brands,” from Hare Krishna to Harley Davidson– –from Falun Gong to Mac.

DOUGLAS ATKIN: And the conclusion was this, is that people, whether they’re joining a cult or joining a brand, do so for exactly the same reasons. They need to belong, and they want to make meaning. We need to figure out what the world is all about, and we need the company of others. It’s simply that.

269. Draco - December 14, 2008

“Church” is just one designation for a religious organization. There are also Mosques,Temples, Monasteries, Shrines, Spiritual/Esoteric Schools, etc.”

Could you give us some examples, DC? Particularly “esoteric school”?

270. Renald - December 14, 2008

There is something useful in here, below that is, and if below then above also.

“ Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.“

Cheers!

Source(s):
Desiderata

— written by Max Ehrmann in the 1920s —

271. Renald - December 14, 2008

re.264. No Quiet Zone – December 14, 2008

“ Renald, it sounds like you’re over-thinking it a bit, over-analyzing. Don’t complicate it. “

You may very well have something there but after so many years in the Fellowship of Friends and being able to look back, what you just said seems to be exactly what I was being told in there. “ Don`t feel, don`t think, don`t be instinctive, don`t worry, just do what I tell you“,
well sorry, that didn`t work worth shit. All that happened was that I forgot how to think, I forgot how to feel, and so on. Face it, the outcome of all that crap just turns us into little Burtons, little people without conscience, without the ability to really love, and when I observe it, I don`t like it. Over-think and over-analyze? Sheesh!

Have a happy Christmas all !

272. Daily Cardiac - December 14, 2008

NQZ – 264:

Fear, like anything else, has its proper applications. If someone driving 90 mph over icy roads has no fear it may prove fatal. Fear of failure can lead to success. And fear of falsehood can lead to truth.

As FDR famously said the only thing we should fear is fear itself; that is, fear as and end in itself.

273. Panorea - December 14, 2008

Ok, it seems that the moderator started a new discussion (part 59) but did not close part 28.

Re-posting then:

1. Panorea – December 14, 2008
Boy that was quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you go at the pathwaytopresent website now you will not find the email addresses and the phone numbers one could find a few hours ago. They have all vanished except “Oslo.”

No there is no sign of corruption and deception in the Fellowship of Friends. ***This is pure life performance***

If you were too late for the show here what “dragon” posted a few hours ago:

DC _ I thought you had said nobody really reads this blog??????????

249. dragon – December 14, 2008
PEOPLE WHO ARE VISITING THIS BLOG:

BE AWARE: THOSE PHONE NUMBERS mentioned below are THE PHONE NUMBERS
OF THE FELLOWSHIP OF FRIENDS:

THIS IS NO NEW ORGANIZATION OF THE FORTH WAY!

Please read ABOUT THE machination OF THIS group. People in all countries are working to inform about the FOF that tries to destroy the lives of its members via religious brainwashing analogous (in a wider sense) to scientology methods.

This group, the FOF is changing his appearance like a chameleon. It recruits also young men from Russia, Romania, Poland and other “ex-communist” countries who are highly educated but in an economically pretty bad situation.
Those young men will have to (if Robert E. Burton derives pleasure from their body) go into his HAREM (“voluntary”) and they will be sexual exploited.

We have a strong spiritual follower of the FOF on this BLOG, Daily Cardiac, he will deny and/or impede the facts as usual.

The new
Website:___________________________________________________________

“To sign up for an introductory meeting, call the phone number listed or write to one of the e-mail addresses.

New York 1 (877) 755-0428 newyork@pathwaytopresence.org

Washington D.C. 1 (301) 704-7163 washington@pathwaytopresence.org

Atlanta 1 (770) 346-0460 washington@pathwaytopresence.org

Los Angeles 1 (800) 642-0212 losangeles@pathwaytopresence.org

San Francisco 1 (800) 642-0212 sanfrancisco@pathwaytopresence.org

Sacramento 1 (800) 642-0212 sacramento@pathwaytopresence.org

Palo Alto 1 (800) 642-0212 paloalto@pathwaytopresence.org

For those who join our work, for new students we go more into depth on:
1. Practicing presence and supporting the higher self…”

__________________________________________________________________

PLEASE BE AWARE the FOF will also probably change its appearance (WEBSITE) and course of action in other European cuntries and all over the world!

274. dick moron - December 14, 2008

270.
Sorry, I could not resist:

Deteriorata

Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.
Rotate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself,
And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
Know what to kiss, and when.
Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do.
Wherever possible, put people on hold.
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
and despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

Remember The Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.
Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you –
That lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face.
Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan.
And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
Hire people with hooks.
For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.
Take heart in the bedeepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot,
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.

You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god,
Whatever you perceive him to be – hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
The world continues to deteriorate.
Give up!

—National Lampoon, 1972

275. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - December 14, 2008

Here’s what happens when you just piss too many people off.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/12/14/vo.bush.shoe.pool.cnn

276. fofblogmoderator - December 14, 2008

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