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Fellowship Of Friends Discussion, Part 52 October 4, 2008

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Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.

To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

At the Moderator’s discretion, excessive abuse, personal attacks, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

To visit the site created by Unoanimo:http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/res-ipsa-loquitur/

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Comments

1. Jomo Piñata - October 4, 2008

If that bank vault anecdote appeared in daily card form, I’d love a copy of it.

2. nigel harris price - October 4, 2008

Hey Elena

Just saw your photo-image in the Appeal-Democrat article. It hit me right in my centre of gravity! I had often wondered what you looked like, even though you gave some descriptions previously. So what touched the ‘moving part of the king of hearts’ (strength being visual imagery)? The face of a poetess, depicting the female heartiness of a mature soul, thrusting forth the masculine aspects of the aspiring spirit. (No, I haven’t fallen in love – I just admire loveliness)…..Nigel.

3. arthur - October 4, 2008

nigel (2),

Yes, she is that!

4. nigel harris price - October 4, 2008

Hey Arthur

Shall I change my photo-image on GF? Never mind – if you think I am a reddish-rotund body-type and Elena thinks I may make the village idiot, why should an almost 52-year-old Solar Essence take himself too seriously? (too old etc.)…………………………………Nigel.

5. unoanimo - October 4, 2008

deleted at the author’s request

6. elena - October 4, 2008

Thanks for the flowers Nigel, I´ll smile a little more next time!

Goodness, where have you all gone? I thought you´d take advantage of not having me take all the space and was hoping to read so many more stories. Hopefully they´ll continue to come.

Arthur, so glad you´re in the paper with me, that was very unexpected but thank you Ryan for continuing to work like a true journalist. This is our time, our life and we are here checking what needs to be checked so that our children don´t have to deal with worse.

Home is home and the pictures and furniture are easily seducing me back into the pleasure of familiarity. It is so good to be with my sister after so many years. She rents a farm with beautiful views of the Andes mountains from every window and it is a great pleasure to be here. I hope you all come and visit some day.

Arthur, I imagine your health is a great issue to be in the States but with an income of five hundred dollars you could live like a worker, with eight hundred, like a prince and with a thousand… almost like a king if you´re as “organic” a king and a prince as I like to be. If you´d like to consider something like that and move close to where ever I find a similar place, my email is ludoteka@succeed.net

The news from Colombia are not easy to digest. For the past thirty years since the paramilitary or the armed forces of the political right wing have been functioning with the support of the President, whose father was killed by the guerrilla, thousands of farmers have been killed and buried in common graves. The testimonies of people involved are only beginning to surface but the atrocities are simply atrocious. Fifty or sixty men are round up in towns and tortured while their families watch them being killed. A father who saw his son being tortured and killed has never spoken again. The Colombian para-military have been trained by people from outside. The forms of torture are so atrocious I cannot get myself to express them.

The government now wants to stop the paramilitary or so it says. Many are coming out from the mountains but there are three million people who had to sell and leave their land or die which is one of the tactics the paramilitary used to get cheap land for themselves. Some buy for nothing while others kill.

Somebody, thanks for the news from the Empire of Envy where Robert can´t let anyone else be, because he feels threatened and displaced by other´s being.

Glad you´re still here Bruce, thanks for the Appeal Democrat connection, I had no idea it was coming out.

I also didn´t know my name was the only one on the petition. How strange!

It is also very strange to find out that only people with bipolar disorder suffer so intensely. Since I did not think I was not normal, I thought everyone suffered as much. So many things are starting to make sense now. My poor husbands! I never knew they were with me! My first husband use to call me little match!… ´cos I exploded so easily and attempted to die the day after he left.

This theory that bipolars are not connected to parents is questionable. My mother certainly was, to think that a pill could have helped her makes me sick.

If Steiner were alive he might suggest that the souls that take up bipolar lives are taking up the suffering of other beings like he suggested about other illnesses. Good, so if we decided to take up this suffering for some reason, we might as well carry it carefully.

So long, be well.

7. elena - October 4, 2008

P.D. “This is our time, our life and we are here checking what needs to be checked so that our children don´t have to deal with worse.”

Sorry if I spoke for us all. Please don´t include yourself if you don´t wish to. Its just that this is my time, my life and I am here checking what needs to be checked so that my children don´t have to deal with worse doesn´t sound accurate either.

8. elena - October 4, 2008

Had only read up to two, thanks Arthur! All these flowers, wow, I´m flashing, get back to work guys!! They are not easy to take but thank you so very much!

9. nigel harris price - October 5, 2008

51/??? Ellen

If you want to leave me your PO Box address, I will put you on “The Years Between” mailing list when the booklet comes out (anyone else who is interested in it can do, too)…..Nigel.

10. nigel harris price - October 5, 2008

9 Ellen/sorry

Forgot to add – my email address for private correspondence is aprhys@nigelprice.net. Hope to hear from you – a good third force for completing the booklet…..Nigel.

11. jack - October 5, 2008

Hi Folks.
I have been told by some people that they get all kinds of strange symbols and punctuation when they look at the petition.
The site owners say that it is possible to make small changes in spelling etc I have only to inform them of the specific changes.
The problem is when I go into the site it looks fine on my Mac.
And I don’t have access to another computer at the moment.
The problem may lie in the different formats that Macintosh and normal Pc’s use.
Any suggestions from any nerds?
regards Jack.

12. whalerider - October 5, 2008

jack:
…We are past members of the Fellowship of Friends, an organization operating as a ÒchurchÓ in the rural Sierra Nevada foothill…

Here’s are the symbols I see with my browser and PC. Are you using single quotation marks on words like student, church, and donations? That may be the problem. If so, perhaps you could replace the quotation marks with the word “so-called” or use double quotation marks instead.

How much would it cost per month to remove the banner ads?

13. arthur - October 5, 2008

Unoanimo (5),

When you publish your book you will give us a “hint”? I just returned from the MAPS site. October the 11th they are having a ‘party’ in San Francisco. Guest lecturers, wine, entertainers, etc. If anybody on GF is going would you write about your experience? Keep hope alive!

nigel (10),

And, when you publish your booklet, let us know?

Elena,

I once considered moving to a Mexican village anywhere on the Gulf of Mexico or the Gulf of Campeche. I think one of my grandmothers and her lineage (and mine) came from there, but I’m not sure. With this COPD I have, it’s questionable whether that will ever happen in physical form.

Jack (11),

Thanks for calling out the nerds. I also need help. How do you make someone a “friend” on the Greater Fellowship”?

14. arthur - October 5, 2008

Sorry, how do you Ask someone to be a friend? Not make.

15. elena - October 5, 2008

I said I was flashing and I of course meant blashing but laughed many times when I remembered the mistake.

So we have few writers, do we have any readers still? Do you want to say goodbye and make it a day? At least it´s less work for you Steve.

I personally hope you don´t freeze the blog yet. My question to the Sheik would be, can it remain open even if there are very few writers and readers? Any news from the Fellowship is news I´d like to hear about and any communication with the rest of you would also be welcome but if it´s time to move on, that is fine too.

Jack, I think I´ve said it many times before but again, thank you for your work with the petition. Can anyone sign it or does it have to be Fellowship students? Do they have to live in America or can they be relatives from afar?

I can also put some money to take the ads from scientology off.

May our lives continue to be filled with inspirations.

16. jack - October 5, 2008

Hi Whalerider and Elena.
I will find out how much ad removal costs and post it here.
Btw. its *blushing* Elena, don’t worry I do the same in Danish.
later
Jx

17. jack - October 5, 2008

Hi Whalerider and Elena.
I will find out how much ad removal costs and post it here.
Btw. its *blushing* Elena, don’t worry I do the same in Danish.
later.
Anyone can sign anywhere in the world.
Its now on seven websites.
Jx

18. jack - October 5, 2008

Hi Arthur.
If you go into your page and look up to the right you should see a little icon with two heads.
Click on it and take it from there.
Alternatively if you look over to the left under the box with your friends in it, it says add friends or something, click on that etc.
all the best
jx

19. unoanimo - October 5, 2008

Hello Arthur ~

I finished the book on August 17th (this year) and mailed it to the prospected publisher… I have 4 proof copies and will send you one… Are you still at 4207? Let me know. BTW, is it possible for you to relocate to a more accommodating house (if) you had the extra income per month and how much? Perhaps a few of us could work out a monthly fund via a Paypal Account in your name, etc. (?) Yesterday was this area’s first big rainfall and there was a double rainbow over Dobbins, CA…

20. elena - October 5, 2008

Jack, now I´m doubly blushing! I think I´ll take a spelling and specially grammar course this year! I think I can find a few signatures down here!

******************

This invisible strings calling out to you and you and you,
can we ever really separate?
At least I can say now that we touched and not the horror of last year´s reality in which leaving the Fellowship left the awful void of there having been nothing but illusion.

The Fellowship is so over for me that there is no anger, no longing, no memories, as if it belonged to another lifetime.

I´m more connected to you today than to anybody else. That, I´ve not yet digested enough. Have you? I doubt it. Will you? Do you want to? Or was it deadly? To what part of us? Can´t you feel the love in this closeness? And it is not about being in love. It´s love,”a secas”. Cut and dry?

So good to not hear Daily Cardiac´s repetitions, thank you DC for not writing. Let the blog die if to stay alive it needs you. So much decadent thinking is not healthy or fun. Not that I do not respect your inner self, it is just so hidden that it doesn´t inspire. But what inspires these days?

The violence in Colombia makes the Fellowship look like a Christmas tree in comparison but I´d rather be here than there. The officer denied me the nationality because Girard and I weren´t living together.

I´m not quite ready to give the public square up. Does anyone have a pop corn stand where I could get some sweet corn? Or an ice cream car with music like the ones that still go around the neighbourhoods here? A crepe? A pizza or an arepa?

Is there a movie theater or a great cathedral where I could enjoy the stained glass light coming in? Is there a dance here next friday evening or a tour to Machu Pichu? I´ve never traveled in South America, we always wanted to meet Europeans and Americans! I am glad that has been possible.

With the Fellowship Cult dead, or at least any connection with it, have we lost the excuse to talk? Was there nothing better for us than to get together to grind it to the ground and now that we have managed to do that at least within my self, is there nothing else we can share? I´m just asking and don´t really know the answer but something still clings to each poster´s soul behind a post.

Virtual reality is a strange place to be in. Not a bad place at all. Sometimes one never gets to really hear other people´s soul when we talk the talk but there sure isn´t anything wrong with reality and it would be lovely to get together for dinner!

Thank you for listening.
Best wishes to you and to all.

21. arthur - October 6, 2008

Unoanimo (19),

Yes, I’m still at 4207. It’s exactly 20 years that I’ve been here.

When I first moved in the roof had being leaking and mold was developing. I thought the carpets were also wet (my imagination).

Because I could feel my breathing labored I decided to repair the roof. It took awhile to buy the supplies, 4×8 sheets of plywood, felt and shingles. When those were bought I knew I was in serious trouble with breathing. I carried 24 bundles of shingles up to the roof and I was gasping all the way.

I rested (big interval) then proceeded to tear out the sheetrock, plumbing, and basically everything that was here.
Then the COPD took over and other big (intervals) came on.

So, now I am doing the “needs to be done” right now stuff. I have three neighbors that help when they can. I am trying to build a welded-wire fence for the dogs. They have been arrested twice. That project is almost done.

The next project is jacking up the house to repair the rotten lumber. I have a twenty-ton jack at my feet and I hope it works.

Then I can start on the plumbing, I have none. I had a toilet but it was broken to pieces while being installed. I have a bed-side potty. Whose contents are dumped accordingly.

Then I can start on the rotten flooring in the bathroom and some in the kitchen and bedroom.

It really isnt all that bad. My bedroom is newly sheetrocked and air conditioned. The paint job is funny though. Some little girls came while I was in the hospital and decided to Help Me.
It’s hard to describe. Blue ceiling without cut-ins, a hugh yellow something without shape over my desk that is suppose to be the sun and a lime green door.

My main helper is a 80 year man who is in poor health. We put the roof on. During one of our intervals he was in the hospital for four months with colon cancer. He tried to board his windows in preparation for Hurricane Ike but other neighbors pitched in and did it for him. When Ike went north he took the boards (4×8 plywood) down himself. Then he and I struggled and I mean struggled bringing them to my house. We “tacked” them on the bare studs and mostly against my bedroom. Winter weatherizing.

My other helper an Ex-Marine with PTSD fell out of a tree last year and can’t help but periodically. He will help with jacking up the house.

Another helper an ex-Army soldier also 100% disabled with PTSD helped with the fencing. The fencing was started while I was in the hospital by a meth head.

Another helper also disabled is a strong and good worker but has “dementia”. He can’t be left alone for a minute. I think he has some kind of amnesia.

My last helper is a 15 year old daughter of a neighbor. She sweeps and mops my bedroom, and also sweeps the living room.

I have a will for this house but it isnt probated. I’ve been told that I will probably owe 20 years worth of back-taxes. It’s over-valued at $39,000. As it is I can’t even give it away.

I have COPD/congestive heart failure. I’m still wobbly from the last episode. It’s a struggle sometimes just standing from sitting too long.

I have no immediate heirs. I’ve told my friends that should I die unexpectedly to bury me 12 feet under in my back yard, have the county cremate me (since they will take over the property- about 80’x 150′ and a shack) and have my ashes scattered in the Bay, in my backyard or where I was born which is now a highway slope.

It’s a strange life I have. I think Lauraupa was right, I’m the Sadhu of the neighborhood. Today a “stripper” came over looking for five dollars for a package of cigarettes. We know her but were hesitant about giving in to her. So, she raised her t-shirt and exposed silicon, but nice.

I never know who will show up. Today it was some unknown looking for someone, yesterday it was a black guy whose mother lived in the neighborhood where I was born.

A few years ago I wanted to drink Aloe-Vera mixed with Turmeric. I did for awhile. But, before I did I was confused about which aloe-vera plant to use. I had several different kinds. I spotted an mexican/indian elderly man across the street at the store and thought he should know which one. So, I walked over and asked. He walked around my yard and pointed to one. Then he said, “there’s money here”. I said, “where”? He said, “on this ground, I can tell”. It’s not money it’s a “feeling”. This place “feels” that’s why the disabled like coming here.

I receive $595.00 a month in social security. With that I have to tango with the Joneses. But, it’s ok. I rode my bicycle with cart huffing and puffing to the grocery-store store, said hello to the heroin addict, who use to be my barber. Came home and was immediately jumped on by four tail wagging dogs. The “leader” of the pack has arrived.

Please send me a proof copy of your work, that’s really all I really need. Thank you very much!

22. unoanimo - October 6, 2008

Hello Arthur ~

At first I thought the blog was finished for good; though with your last letter we should be able to keep it going for at least another 6 months… Wow! Your renovation work sounds too personally familiar to be true for me, yet, there it is, in all its glory… The 20 ton jack ought to do it; just make sure there’s plenty of oil in it prior to the lift and that it doesn’t leak when under pressure (around the main cylinder and the body wall)… Also, you can use a car jack as a secondary ‘crutch’ and a cinder block with its holes facing downwards just in case the primary does something squirrel(ly)…

You wrote ~

“It’s hard to describe. Blue ceiling without cut-ins, a hugh yellow something without shape over my desk that is suppose to be the sun and a lime green door.”

That sounds like good mojo to me, particularly the lime green door… It seems that you own the place, so, now I understand a bit better the situation and the issue/logic of relocating, etc. I will send the book to you on Monday…

It’s an amazing portrait you paint Arthur: your story is an inspiration for me these days; really. Thank you so very much for sharing this with me (and then some).

L.t.y.a.

23. lauralupa - October 6, 2008

Dearest all,
just came back from another meeting with grandmother ayahuasca.
The whole ordeal was too much for words. I might try later to convey some of it. My heart is filled with gratitude and amazement at the beauty and power I have been graced to witness and experience. You should have seen me throwing up and laughing like a madwoman all at the same time.

unoanimo, a note to you:
the dates were October 3rd and 4th. The two pictures I drew for the integration part of the process were titled, respectively:
“Holy green mother of compassion” and “Over the rainbow”.
You were there with me as I was there with you.

Elena, arthur, yesri, bruce, another name, ellen, james, veramente, whalerider, jack, aline, spoonful, jomo, ames, alan, dragon and all of you friends too numerous to mention, you are in my heart. May the everlasting beauty of this unfathomable universe resplend in all your souls.
May we all continue to trustfully open ourselves to the mystery and celebrate our lives with courage.
Everything is illuminated.

PS James, I always enjoy your posts

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u8EkhVUGSaA&feature=related

24. Bares Reposting - October 6, 2008

Here’s to you Jack:

Outside Of A Small Circle Of Friends
By Phil Ochs

Outside of a Small Circle of Friends 3:48

Look outside the window, there’s a woman being grabbed
They’ve dragged her to the bushes and now she’s being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I’d hate to blow the game
And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.

Riding down the highway, yes, my back is getting stiff
Thirteen cars are piled up, they’re hanging on a cliff.
Maybe we should pull them back with our towing chain
But we gotta move and we might get sued and it looks like it’s gonna rain
And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.

Sweating in the ghetto with the colored and the poor
The rats have joined the babies who are sleeping on the floor
Now wouldn’t it be a riot if they really blew their tops?
But they got too much already and besides we got the cops
And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends.

Oh there’s a dirty paper using sex to make a sale
The Supreme Court was so upset, they sent him off to jail.
Maybe we should help the fiend and take away his fine.
But we’re busy reading Playboy and the Sunday New York Times
And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Smoking marihuana is more fun than drinking beer,
But a friend of ours was captured and they gave him thirty years
Maybe we should raise our voices, ask somebody why
But demonstrations are a drag, besides we’re much too high
And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Oh look outside the window, there’s a woman being grabbed
They’ve dragged her to the bushes and now she’s being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I’d hate to blow the game
And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

[ Additional verse, 1974]

Down in Santiago where they took away our mines
We cut off all their money so they robbed the storehouse blind
Now maybe we should ask some questions, maybe shed a tear
But I bet you a copper penny, it cannot happen here
And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Notes:

The first verse is a commentary on the murder of Kitty Genovese. She was murdered March 14th, 1964 in NYC. Dave Marulli supplies the following about this incident:

On March 13, 1964, a 28 year old New York City woman gained world-wide recognition for her role in an event which even today is remembered by people everywhere, creating a legacy still held up as an example of American values, or lack thereof. There can be no doubt, however, that Kitty Genovese would have given all her worldly possessions to have avoided the global “fame” acquired on that Friday the 13th that gave to her the ultimate horror associated with this symbol of bad luck.

Even though 47,000 New York City residents have been murdered since, hers remains the most tragic because 38 “citizens” awakened by her cries for help watched as she was assaulted not once, but three times over a half hour period. Not only did they fail to come to her aid, they also failed to call the police for help. Vincent Mosely, her assailant, stabbed her several times, then left, only to return a few minutes later to cut her up a little more.

During his brief absence, these “decent” New Yorkers turned off their lights and went back to sleep, only to be awakened again by this second assault, a scene repeated a third time, after which she no longer needed the assistance she failed to get the first, second or even the third, and final time.

During Mosely’s trial, witnesses made several statements, but one stands above the rest as a symbol of this tragic event and is the reason for its world-wide infamy: “We didn’t want to get involved.” No surprise to Mosely, for as he said: “I knew they wouldn’t do anything – they never do.”

Hundreds, if not thousands, of studies were done about this event and book after book after book announced the downfall of American values because of it.

One study concluded that on average, if more than 4 people witness an event, nobody will do anything. Each person will say to themselves “I don’t have to get involved since there are other people here who can help.”

25. Bares Reposting - October 6, 2008

52/~24 was in response to the below posting to the forum:
Why not sign the petition? on the Greater Fellowship website:

‘Perhaps if we simplify the question by an analogy, which comes of course from my personal standpoint of how things are.
But, what would you do if you were going down the street and you saw a big strong man kicking a little skinny girl or for that matter a big strong woman kicking a little skinny man.
Would you look the other way and pretend you didn’t see anything.
Call the police.
Philosophize endlessly.
Justify yourself internally about doing nothing by telling yourself that it was probably the skinny ones karma and that it would all come out in the cosmic wash.
Run over and stop them.
Shout to other people to stop them.
Or Something entirely different.
j x’

26. veramente - October 6, 2008

Lauralupa, welcome back! and thank you for your visions and your love.

Arthur, what an amazing story of your life in Texas. You are a brave man and I wish you sweetness of days and health.

Elena, how many times we felt the blog was dying? Yes, we need news or new stories. The idea that there is still an FOF and a demented Burton does not let me rest. It is not obsession of course, I have my life after all.

27. arthur - October 6, 2008

veramente (26),

nigel said several times he would be willing to testify in court against you know who.

When that day comes and the judge throws Robert Earl Burton in the state prison and disburses the Fellowship of Friends Gold you and I will be standing side by side.

You can tell the judge how much gold you need for the pretension you had to serve under. I will tell the judge that Bibical Law has to be followed since Robert Earl Burton is a pastor of a state exempt church.

I will tell the judge that despite the protestations of those who served 20-30 years under the blistering hot sun and worthless pretentions, that I a johnny come lately needs to be paid the same amount of Gold. It’s in the Bible Loud and Clear.

The Vineyard master paid the last the same as the first. So, we will get some Gold.

Charms back to you.

28. James Mclemore - October 6, 2008

lauralupa:

Wow!! I feel energized and bit renewed this morning. Made me remember the times back in the sixties when a person could experience a ‘contact high’ from just being around someone who was doing a bit of space travel. Your energy just shined, and I do mean shined, right through and inbetween the words you wrote.

Thank you for the blessing, and for the inspiration to ‘open’ and to ‘celebrate’.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwTdqPkluY&feature=related

29. You-me-us-they - October 6, 2008

Blog dead?!!!!!!!!!
Marvellous offering these last posts!

Discovered this day that my birds are sitting on eggs!!!
We are on for “family business”!

Good sign… Sure!

30. James Mclemore - October 6, 2008

Arthur
Thank you for your story.
I have been living in South Carolina for the last 14 months trying to help an old friend that already had some severe health issues, and then a major heart surgery that left her paralyzed from the waist down. I now find myself in debt, and struggling with becoming negative about the situation I find myself in, while at the same time trying to see my own ‘heart weaknesses’ and my own version of ‘paralysis’. Your story helps to give me a bit of what we used to call relativity.
Thank you again for that story.
I have little to offer right now but my good wishes, but if you run out and need a little extra for meds or food or other dire necessities, don’t hesitate to contact me at the GF or at j.mc@earthlink.net
It won’t be much, but I will figure out a way to move a few $’s your way.
The best to you.

31. arthur - October 6, 2008

James Mclemore (30),

You and Unoanimo know how to over-awe me. That’s for sure and I’m speechless. Thanks for your kindness.

Talking about money. I had a tall tree near my house and made arrangements with a tree cutter (he use to bring me mounds of chips) to have it cut down. Then he stop coming.

Well, that was months ago. When hurricane Ike came into the Gulf of Mexico the projected path seem to be right at me. I thought that if that rotten tall tree falls on my house—It’s all over and no need to worry about anything. If it falls another way good-by electric and phone wires. So, I made arrangements to have it cut down with the stipulation to pay it out in small payments.

That’s the way it goes. A little here a little there and delays. I wanted to order some “special” plants this month or have a female dog spayed. Neither will happen this month.

If you want you can ask to be my friend on GF, that way it will be on both our “pages”. That would be a whole lot of help.

Thanks again James. Stay strong.

32. unoanimo - October 6, 2008

Arthur ~

These days I’m in the mood to cut down an old, dead tree; let’s do it! Whalerider knows where my underwater spelunking entrance is; so, saddle up and visit me in cyberspace and let’s get this thing cut down before the rains and high winds are upon you.

A Disclaimer Note: this ‘desire’ is in no way associated with the ‘Tree Symbol’ logo belonging to the F.O.F.

P.S. Check your GF site.

33. dragon - October 6, 2008

23. lauralupa

sounds unimaginable and if you had an incredibly beautiful experience.

Let us participate in this joy and the positive influence on your creativity.

21. arthur

thank you for your lively description. I found you on Google Earth but I was not able to touch your magic plants (also magic mushrooms?).
Please let us know asap –> unoanimo’s :-))) attempt with your PayPal
These animals: The male rabbit of my daughter, it is cruel but sterilization is of help to this matter.

Elena: still online?
please keep on smiling, only for you: Bach with bicycle :-)))))

Dear All:

This evening I found on Greater Fellowship two VIDEOS:

Please insert in: SEARCH (=on the right above):

–> exodus david hawkins

The two videos:
some kind of special 4. way movement I guess…

34. Skeptical Optimist - October 6, 2008

Howdy bloggers,

I haven’t been keeping up with the blog lately, but trust things are going along as usual.

This weekend I took the family to see Bill Maher’s new documentary that just opened here, “Religilous”. I highly recommend it. Besides being hysterically funny, it’s also quite informative and absolutely deadly to the part of us that just won’t stop believing in fairy tales. Do yourself a favor–go see it.

Best…

JoelF

35. nigel harris price - October 6, 2008

(don’t worry, these three items do connect)

To Elena

“Fight as one already dead” (Old Samurai Saying)
I have found that, since I am completely free of wondering how our activities will turn out, I am able to give myself fully to the blog (almost everyday now), knowing that we can put REB IN THE SLAMMER FOR GOOD at the end of it all.

To Arthur, Ellen and Unoanimo

I do not have a date for completion of “The Years Between”, but will hurry it up, just in case the ‘blog’ does fold prematurely. Otherwise, I am on the GF site (under the same name).

About Money

Unfortunately, or otherwise, I have become an ambitious Solar with my businees and have not been making a huge profit (although that was never my intention) so that money to help Arthur or to pay my passage and keep to the imminent law-suit trial may be tight my end. To be truthful, I hardly know, week to week, where the money is coming from, but I do know it is a worthwhile venture and that I will survive.

NIGEL.

36. arthur - October 7, 2008

dragon (33),

Thanks for the offer but I’m doing ok. In Fourth Way language,
“I’m living out my fate”. Born under these conditions, lived under these conditions and will depart under these conditions.

I think Gurdjieff, Ouspensky or Collin said that if your life is too comfortable create discomfort where you need it most.

Unoanimo (32),

I didnt see any watery caves at my GF site. I hope you are not talking about womb water.

37. elena - October 7, 2008

Dragon, just saw firedance, couldn´t open it before. And Bach´s bycicle, two sides of the same coin. So beautiful! Gracias!

En esta noche oscura y fria
no tengo ganas de cantar.

It´s like a hurricane that turns on its own where no one stands.
And then you stand in the center patiently waiting for it to pass
knowing it hasn´t killed anyone, no matter how much you´d like to die.

The people around you can´t watch you cry
they think they´ve got to do something about it
even if it is
to make you cry.

What a stupid world in which people can´t even cry.
Can´t even die.
You´ve got to stay alive
and smile.
Who should I ask for permission to die?

But I´m too old to die like that,
I´ll stand and die like this:
totally still and still alive.

Have you tasted the stillness at the center of the hurricane?
Life whirling all around you while you watch already dead and never more alive?

Have you given the world up?
Allowed it to fall like water down your hands?
and drunk it without thirst?

Have you watched it turn like the derviche´s skirt flying high
while you keep your eyes on a spot?

To think that all this longing is only one longing to die.

That love and sex and beauty are just flirtations with death, aspects of it, its colours.

38. Opus 111 - October 7, 2008

Dragon

While we can all rejoice about more friends seeing the light (realizing the darkness), I am frightened at the vulnerability that is shown in these videos. Anyone who “calibrates consciousness/conscious beings” and signs books while talking to spiritual seekers in front of an audience, should send off tons of red flags.

It is a sad commentary on FOF and REB that so many of his closest followers seem so lost. This is not meant to be judgmental, but I could only hope these new escapees would stay as far away from self acknowledged gurus as they possibly can, for a long long long time.

39. rock that boat - October 7, 2008

Talking about trees…. talking about ripping of anything
and everybody

In the 80’s the FOF tree logo was stolen from the City of Oakland, CA

http://www.oaklandnet.com/Parks/

40. unoanimo - October 7, 2008

Hello Opus 111 ~

You said ~

“It is a sad commentary on FOF and REB that so many of his closest followers seem so lost.”

————

Is it really possible to be “sad” for anyone now outside of the F.O.F. experiment, i.e., that ‘kind’ of experimentation? IMO, even if I am ‘lost’ (Not that I was ever really found in the pupils of others eyes, in that setting, while looking to be found ‘looking to be found’ at those doing the same thing); at least I know now I am really lost, holy lost, like Rumi wondering who dropped him off down here in this cosmic-Tavern and when are they coming back to pick him up?

I believe ‘red flags’ are good for two things; warning the way and lighting the way… Now, it’s just up to us to decide, with the view we have from here, which is on fire and which is just painted with bright reflective paint.

Maybe I am way off in left field here, though, I’d almost bet that even if someone were to find another Guru or group, they’d certainly not be the same person twice, even if the same mistake was being made thrice. (?)

L.t.y.a.

41. unoanimo - October 7, 2008
42. Yesri Baba - October 7, 2008

27 Arthur

“The Vineyard master paid the last the same as the first. So, we will get some Gold.”

Funny, this parable has been popping up in my pea brain over the last couple of weeks and here it is on the blog. Not so much in terms of a rebate, though.

43. lauralupa - October 7, 2008

Opus, I watched those videos and had the exact same reaction. The soon to be ex-members looked like poor little lost children. Sad but not surprising, after enduring all these years of attentively listening to the ramblings of an ill intentioned madman. I also reiterate my personal opinion and gut feeling that hawkins feels like total crap, spiritually speaking. Did not like him one bit.
But I trust that confusion will dispel in time, children will grow up as children do when allowed and encouraged, fake gurus will be recognized and abandoned, and all will eventually be able to stand on their own two feet and walk the open road.
Time will heal and time will teach and in time we will be able to remember all we once knew and forgot. Remember who we are and what we truly want.
And yes, we will all get some gold. The last the same as the first, of course!

44. aline - October 7, 2008

#43 Laura,
I looked at this video too.
First this guy doesn’t seemed at all what he pretends to be
Second what strikes me is the need to still ask questions to others instead of asking them to oneself.
The answer you receive then is just your own projection, nothing from the outside.
That is a stratagem RB understood and used with everyone.

45. Draco - October 7, 2008

From recent Fellowship promotional newsletters: Pretty hilarious and badly written stuff:-

The Fourth Way (I)
Schools of the fourth way have existed and exist, just as schools of the three traditional ways existed and exist. But they are much more difficult to detect, because—unlike the others—they cannot be recognised by any one practice, one method, one task, or one name.
Rodney Collin

A fourth way school offers the miraculous, a place where the ‘two worlds touch’, the physical and the metaphysical. In the physical realm, a fourth way school is one step away from the terrestrial, the preparation for being in an invisible realm, a temporary physical space while its metaphysical connection exists. This means that a fourth way school has certain characteristics. Rodney Collin wrote that a fourth way school ‘will exhibit the same processes and permit the same possibilities’ as the traditional ways of the fakir, the monk and the yogi, ‘but very much faster.’

While the traditional ways of the fakir, the monk and the yogi are well known, even culturally acknowledged, the fourth way is hidden and avoids representation. There are traces, for example, the Gnostic Christians, but this is a trace and not the activity of a living school. The archaeological sites of some gothic cathedrals are what remain of a school and their construction involved the creating of conscious souls. Perhaps the first worshippers of these cathedrals were also participants of the gothic school, and through the beauty of its structure, the esoteric stories of its windows, the ethereal yet powerful singing of its choir, they knew that the cathedral evoked higher centres. Since then, the initiatory power of the cathedral has faded even as its structure and ritual remains. This indicates that a fourth way school exists for the duration of its esoteric task.

Awakening in a fourth way school is ‘very much faster’ because it demands more; one works for one’s self, for others and for the school, a three-fold involvement that becomes a way of life, an interweaving of opportunities and challenges for the development of being. In building a fourth way school, one is building one’s Self.

The Fourth Way II

The gift of Heaven is free. The gift of knowing how to attain it is priceless.

From the Temple of Karnak

While the traditional ways of the fakir, the monk and the yogi recommend seclusion from ordinary life, the Fourth Way embraces it. This is the secret of the Fourth Way; the distractions of life are the material for awakening. For the fakir, this material is pain, for the monk doubt and for the yogi confusion, while the Fourth Way includes these and other aspects of psychology for awakening. When the Fourth Way accepts that the conditions for awakening are ‘the man himself,’ this means who and what he or she is, at any given moment. This also means that whatever the reason for joining a school—for one person, it is ‘tired of being a machine’, for another, the desire for conscious love—consciousness is produced on its own terms, for its own sake, regardless of the person’s mechanics.

A Fourth Way school works by providing opportunities for students to ‘observe’ themselves. By observing sensations, thoughts, emotions, opinions and beliefs, weaknesses, desires and tendencies, a Fourth Way student has all the material needed for awakening. A student awakens in the midst of ordinary circumstances, circumstances that may have no association or intent towards awakening. And as a student does not have the identity of the traditional ways, a fakir, monk or yogi, they awaken as they are, in what they do. To accelerate this potential for awakening, a Fourth Way school engages a student in many roles, ranging from menial to managerial, exciting to tedious, roles for which they are suited or completely unsuited. The roles themselves are not important, since it is consciousness that is being produced, an awareness that is separate from the role.

From this, a student learns to become an actor in the play of life, performing in its many scenes, dialogues and monologues, exits and entrances. Whether a life is ‘difficult’ or ‘lucky’, ‘cursed’ or ‘charmed’, this view changes in relation to awakening. ‘Fortunate’ or ‘unfortunate’ are events in the great drama of awakening, the heroic exploit to conquer sleep. Knowing that a part is played for the sake of awakening, there are no regrets when the part is finished and fades away. The actor puts down the mask, the writer finishes the script, the puppeteer puts away the doll. Life is a play, and one is a conscious actor, awakening in the role that one is playing.

46. Draco - October 7, 2008

Some of those quotes are quite dishonest in the light of actual practice in the FOF:

The work needs nothing external. Only the internal is needed. Externally, one should play a role in everything.
Gurdjieff

Schools of the Fourth Way demand understanding before anything else.
Gurdjieff
In the Fourth Way there is no difficulty in the first step, all work is inner, there is no external giving up of things.
Ouspensky

The Fourth Way removes symbols of identity and gives one identity itself.
Robert Burton

(Read, the FOF removes some of your identity gives one a Fellowship identity)

Schools of the fourth way have existed and exist, just as schools of the three traditional ways existed and exist. But they are much more difficult to detect, because—unlike the others—they cannot be recognised by any one practice, one method, one task, or one name.
Rodney Collin

(Hey, I thought all schools used the divine immortal Sequence)

47. Kid Shelleen - October 7, 2008

After watching the videos of Hawkins, I asked myself this question: Why am I so moved by watching a crazy old coot teach a so-called man #4 the Lord’s Prayer?

Feel free to discuss this amongst yourselves.

48. Ellen - October 7, 2008

Hey All,

I took a look at the D H videos on GFoF just now. Had already heard of David Hawkins from another friend maybe six months ago. Had checked out his website briefly then, but did not understand the attraction. A truth calibrator??? Found it kinda strange that so many of my friends felt the need to ask some external man about their internal truth.

Then I saw the videos today and understood. The fundamental lesson that RB teaches is to not trust your self. Literally, the “I’s” are not real, particularly any “I’s” that stumble upon contradictions, cognitive dissonance, conscience, etc… It’s one of the magic spells of the black magician.

And visiting a truth calibrator as some external force that can help a person get back on track may seem downright silly (and sad) to some people who have been out of the spell for awhile but it’s just indicative of the central problem.

I bet my friends will laugh (and cry) to see themselves – sooner or later.

49. dragon - October 7, 2008

38. Opus 111

The human tragedy of these two videos (David R. Hawkins + young people exposed on the GF site) shows on the one hand young people searching for stability (after the experience of endless expanse of their inner selfs in the FOF without a protection- technique of any kind) and on the other hand an old man (obvious hard of hearing) telling his truth (maybe with the best of intentions).

The way this old man behaves strangely towards these young people (no dialogue based on a partnership and his “video-charisma”) is an alarm bell in my eyes (as far as I can review watching these virtual world products/videos).

Today I had business lunch with a friend of mine.
His statement as follows: We can tell whatever, we can try to share our experiences and I will never stop it but every young generation will start and fathom out the smell of the borders. I think it is important to give them just these few words:

We are here waiting for you at any time without any kind of reproach.

Dear All,

ICSA (international cultic studies association) offers on this site an interview with Philip G. Zimbardo from May 1997: “What messages are behind today’s cults?”

http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studycult/study_zimbar.htm

Today more than 10 years later: I think we live under comparable conditions!

I would like to present this website esp the first video [take care: the video is hard stuff (in some places), if you feel unwell, please ignore it].

http://www.lucifereffect.com/aboutphil_media.htm

50. Jomo Piñata - October 7, 2008

Words like “dear,” she said, have a life of their own. “It’s harder to change,” Dr. Levy said, “because people spend so much of their lives observing it without having a stake in it, not realizing it’s belittling to call someone that.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/us/07aging.html?pagewanted=2&hp

51. Vena - October 7, 2008

Just watched the David Hawkins videos on GF. I felt sad to see that our friends are still not free of the need to have some other self proclaimed authority figure confirm their understanding. And David Hawkins seemed even less believable than RB. Can someone who knows more about him explain his attraction?

I felt repulsed to see his arrogance and the power he held over the questioners and their need to be like children in relation to him. They probably know more than he does. They just haven’t realized it yet.

52. You-me-us-they - October 7, 2008

I, too discovered the video’s with “horror”!
Nothing horrible “per sé” only,
so much of what I (but not all) do not want.

The main feeling was the “giving up” on yourself and consequent desperate need for guidance from “out there”, with all the consequences we know.

Could and probably does (here definitely) stimulate a healthy negative state, a: “want to ring the neck” of those feeding on “that”.

And a positive one, a call: heal “that”!

“ask and it is given”… What do you want?

53. Another Name - October 7, 2008

Dear All

About the video’s on the GF,

Where we not all there, once?
In some way?
And were are we now?
I find it very courages to have those video’s shown?
I say thanks for sharing your vulnerability and your confusion.
Your hurt and your loss.

For them and us:

Often in times of loss we reach for what we have considered to be our strength, we may stumble on our wholeness and our real power.

Rachel Naomi Remen

54. Another Name - October 7, 2008

Dear All

So quiet on the blog…I wonder?
Because of the petition or the change of season’s? What I happening?
Do we feel uncomfortable on some way?

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html

So far 64 signatures ,….I guess it makes us uncomfortable?

Why? Is it so scary to commit to express ourselves?
Is it easier to just blame Robert and others and the fellowship?

I wonder and ponder
Knowing not much and still a lot
Happy to be here
Sending you all my love
Wonder about blame

55. Tatyana - October 7, 2008

On Hawkins videos. If they were so uncertain about the decision to leave or not to leave FOF they could just flip a coin instead of going that far for an answer – that would be at least cheaper. I am also shocked to see how people choose whom to trust. Maybe after years of practice in believing all kind of crap about C influence, their compass is way off. After receiving the most arrogant and formatory answer on the question “how to pray and to whom?” what motivated other students go ahead and ask more questions?

56. whalerider - October 7, 2008

All roads lead to the bathroom mirror.

I went to an Al-Anon meeting the other day with the woman I have been seeing lately. This free program is for the adult children of alcoholics. One doesn’t have to be an alcoholic oneself to attend.

During the meeting someone described it as the “graduate program” of AA.

I found the group dynamic fascinating and inspiring.

The format is to essentially speak one’s own truth in a non-threatening and supportive group of people in order to empower oneself. That’s it. One can take what one wants, leave the rest, and come and go as one pleases. Donations are actually completely voluntary donations, not membership dues.

Nobody is there to exclusively lead the group or impose their viewpoint. It’s not a lecture format. There is no elitist hierarchy of man number anything; you don’t have to demonize parts of yourself, and everyone is treated on the same level. The meeting is facilitated by a rotating ‘secretary’.

There is a time limit for sharing, and so no one person can dominate the floor for any great length of time. There is no cross-talking or criticism of what a person shares. One can express appreciation and empathy for others and have a chance to feel the same coming from others, too. Laughing is allowed, and it feels good to be there! Even if one does not wish to use the 12 step ‘system’, one is still welcome to attend.

So essentially, the program is a functioning anarchy with a spiritual twist.

Joseph Campbell speaks about the person who is in truly their power is like a lone wolf wandering among the disempowered sheep of those living life giving their power away.

IMO, spiritual virtuosity requires that the lone wolf at times pretends to be a sheep. The Al-Anon meeting felt to me like a civilized place where the wolves go to be wolves, without pretense or the need for mood altering substances.

All you have to do is show up, speak your own truth and your reward will be in this lifetime.

57. Opus 111 - October 7, 2008

Maybe Jomo Pinata and others can comment on the observation that Hawkins and Burton both use the “technique” of having someone filter (repeat or “translate”) the question asked. I know Burton claimed he could not hear very well, but it did not seem to be much of a problem when he was amongst his own limited circle. This artifice is very disempowering to the questioners and puts them right where the guru wants them: on their knees.

Trusting the FOF to help grow the soul/self of participants is like trusting a prison to grow the self-confidence and self-reliance of the inmates.

58. waskathleenw - October 7, 2008

54. Tatyana,

Maybe after years of practice in believing all kind of crap about C influence, their compass is way off.
———

I believe this may be the case for some. I went to a psychic during the first weeks after leaving in 1984 because, despite some rather dramatic signs of being on the right track, I still didn’t completely trust myself. My compass was working, but it was off.

59. Jomo Piñata - October 7, 2008

he “technique” of having someone filter (repeat or “translate”) the question asked. . . . This artifice is very disempowering to the questioners. . . .

I am just thinking out loud here because I have never seen or thought about this before….

My first thought is, in such a scenario, the guru isn’t dealing with an individual, only a disembodied question. There is no apparent obligation to acknowledge anybody’s humanity. Wouldn’t you think that would be a first principle of a spiritual relationship, acknowledging the other’s humanity?

Then, the disembodied question, a linguistic object, first gets squared with the ideology by the translator, who may modify it slightly to make it fit, and then the individual gets subordinated to the linguistic object. It is the object that gets dealt with, not the person. I would think that a question should never have primacy over the person who asked it. Otherwise, it’s not a human exchange, it’s just a power game.

Haven’t seen the Hawkins videos, by the way, or otherwise encountered this “translation” phenomenon.

60. Vena - October 7, 2008

On the technique of using someone to “translate” used by Burton and Hawkins – I agree with you Opus. Huib and Carlos both speak English very well so to have that woman repeat what they were saying as though it were unintelligible only seemed to make them uncertain and ill at ease. I’m sorry someone didn’t speak to him with enough confidence to revel his little game.

61. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - October 7, 2008

Just watched all the Hawkins videos. What came through to me was the innocence and naivete of the Fellowship participants. I found it refreshing. It brought me back to a kinder time in the Fellowship when we all were enjoying ourselves and happy to have found something in common with one another.

I am not impressed with DH but I was impressed by the students. Leaving is hard but necessary in order to continue the process of growing. The protective environment of the Fellowship begins to become its opposite in our growth processes.

Perhaps just the no nonsense style of DH was what they all needed, IMHO.

62. Kid Shelleen - October 7, 2008

Well, here we are projecting onto David Hawkins what we wish to see, the same as we once-upon-a-time projected what we wished to see onto Bobby, except now it’s the reverse –Manipulator! Fraud!

To me, Hawkins seems like a frail, hard-of-hearing, opinionated old man who projects an aura of absolute certainty regarding his spirtual bonafides. What made it hard to watch was not Hawkins making a living selling/signing his books and answering questions (which for some here may be enough to call for his crucifixion), but rather the fact that the fofers couldn’t clearly articulate their questions, if they even understood what their questions really were.

All that time spent working on oneself and one still can’t stand up to Daddy.

63. Jomo Piñata - October 7, 2008

Kid/61
Well, here we are projecting onto David Hawkins what we wish to see, the same as we once-upon-a-time projected what we wished to see onto Bobby, except now it’s the reverse –Manipulator! Fraud!

Dude, you rock! This is a real issue for those who’ve been had and who have intentionally rubbed their faces in the reality that they were had. Some of us (Yo!) have to have been had by serial sociopaths before we get the message and hang up the phone. Then our fraud/manipulation antennae are out and maybe our fraud detector gets set at too sensitive a setting and keeps going off even with ordinary people.

64. fofblogmoderator - October 7, 2008

#49 is newly moderated

65. lauralupa - October 7, 2008

dragon #49
thanks for the link, and especially for this:

We are here waiting for you at any time without any kind of reproach.

It bares repeating!

66. somebody - October 8, 2008

From the Call of the Loon:

“The sequence is the synthesis of the system.”
I said that the sequence is worth more than all the works of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Collin, Horn and myself. It is the summation of wisdom. Ouspensky said, “If man was made to remember himself, there must have been some simple method, but I could never find it.” It is Be, Hold, Look, Back, Look, BE. If you lose this state, the sequence is the perfect way to retrieve it.

67. arthur - October 8, 2008

Somebody (66),

Some bobby (666), Might not end up in the State Prison but in a lunatic asylum and me in the same padded cell. The “tricks and Tips” of computer use will do it for me.

68. unoanimo - October 8, 2008

You-me-us-they ~

I just accessed high speed internet and watched the 3 videos on the GF site; I’m not sure what all the hoot is about… I must say that the moment that touched me the most was when Carlos ‘received’ the prayers’ answer, i.e., the whole anonymous-audience directing something ‘right’ his way… Something that ‘Grandmother’ taught me was how much mind had played the part of the heart in my life and how answers from the F.O.F. true-personality-bakery (And my wearing the puffy hat & mittens) simply were beautifully baked bubbles of yeast, not to be touched ‘Or Else!’ Well, they got touched and shattered…

I can only wish upon all the F.O.F. members who attended that meeting a soft landing from being nudged out of the nest, not by the mother, rather, by the unrelenting onslaught of a season’s changing from a warm summer night to a wintry contemplation of a mirror that does not speak when you’re around.

So far as David Hawkins goes; well, there’s another kind-of-‘David’ standing here in Oregon House, at ‘Apollo/Isis’, and to me, all mirroring and projections aside, he’s no statue, nor an affirmation; he’s a reminder that in between the labor of conscious autonomy and the closest thing to it for the child growing up (the patriarch), there’s the ‘Mother’ (inner) in between, delegating/translating our proposed birth-transaction alongside this biological life of the human-being-pot we’re growing in…

It’s all very dream-like to me and maybe a little confusing (which is good BTW) ~ The round table, the flowers on the floor, the red table cloth, the patriarchal signing of books in the middle of a matriarchal heart crisis (?That might be a personal interpretation?), the patriarch (the old man in the mountain), the matriarch (the one Rumi says we should run from if ‘she’ comes to try and sooth our god-bruises), the multitude of pillows on the chair, the miss matched chairs, the child looking to the father for guidance and precision so to someday ‘cut the second umbilical cord with love and not lust for Space travel’ and establish the union inside itself that the external one (family) points to, though cannot show resolve or consistency in being successful in love to convince a ‘Yes’ from the child’s compromised yearning, so to speak…

Sound familiar?

Yes, he was nonchalant and way casual, so what? IMO, the questioners themselves set the stage and not the other way around: my gut feeling is that the F.O.F. students who went to see (The Real ‘David’, i.e., a living, breathing human being and not a next-lifetime-affirmation or purchased statue’s raincheck for immortality) did and didn’t get what they wanted in a roundabout way…

Instead, they got what they wished (IMO) by the action itself and not the content… It was a symbolic return of the Prodigal Son (& Daughter) to ‘the answerless father’: I have to let the content go this time, all of it; for me, everything was in the action of leaving the nest… And that space experienced between the nest edge and the ground (wherever that is), whew, well, you already know there’s no talking about that! Is there really anything I want from the mirror, other than to hold its liquid silver awhile in my cupped hands and watch it move me to move it? What a crew we are!

I did find it curious that all my friends were all on one side of the auditorium (together and not spread out) and those representing the other 16 were the same who do so and did so in the days of being able to raise our hands and be called upon by Robert; someday, perhaps, we will learn so much from those we subconsciously choose to represent our hearts aspirations and we’ll be surprised that those who we choose are indeed looking for someone to choose too.

L.t.y.a.

69. Another Name - October 8, 2008

Unoanimo

Woooooooooooh

What a way of describing your experience with the video…it almost makes me cry….

Forgive each other, the crew and myself.

The ongoing question these days is why did I get into it and why do I know so clearly see the lies and the betray and not sooner?

Why does it still hurt, am I lingering on too much?

Why did I just put my head above the clouds and see live so differently?

Why can I not accept the past?

I think I am going to sit still for a while, breath and be…live the question?

Thanks Unoanimo

70. Yesri Baba - October 8, 2008

Escaped cult member to self- ” Whew, I’m out. Now if I could just get this Gregorian Chant to stop playing…”

71. Crouching Tiger - October 8, 2008

Related to the David Hawkins videos…

I watched them on the GF site this morning. One of the most remarkable aspects of the two encounters is simply how long it takes the FOF people to formulate a question and ask it directly. DH has to ask repeatedly for the actual question to be stated. ‘It’ only seems to emerge after much confusion and many minutes of waiting!

One of Robert Burton’s idiosyncratic contributions to his idea of the 4th Way is the idea of Feminine Dominance. I guess he made this contribution because he experienced/s it as a formidable obstacle himself. When I watched the videos, there was a strong impression of Fellowship men and women asking to be freed of a certain kind of influence… a sense of ‘asking permission’, much as you would do from your mother during your childhood… Too uncertain for the question to be phrased directly, but nonetheless tangibly there and unwilling to go away without an answer.

The videos were quite a striking image of how the school embodies the very problem that it sees ‘outside’. When Hawkins answers in terms of responsibility and accountability in the Huib interview, I feel he hits the nail firmly on the head…

Resisting feminine dominance (should it exist) is hardly a matter of bullying one’s way to the front of a queue and saying ‘stuff you’ to everyone else who has been patiently waiting in line – or taking possession of what is not properly yours, other people’s minds and bodies – but the simple, subtle action of being responsible for one’s own life. And maybe, no longer being afraid to announce the real question in a strong, clear voice.

72. Ill Never Tell - October 8, 2008

70. Yesri Baba – October 8, 2008

‘Escaped cult member to self- ‘ Whew, I’m out. Now if I could just get this Gregorian Chant to stop playing…”

– – – – – –

Good one, yessiree bob! Stop that Gregorian Chant from playing in my inner sanctum.

* * * * * *

Just got done watching those DH videos that were posted to the GF site. Those being the ones that show Fellowship of Friends members defiantly going to seek spiritual guidance against excommunication orders proffered by you-know-who and his band of flying monkeys. [Just throw some water on the witch and she will melt into a puddle of green slime; wicked witch of the west that she be. ‘Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.’]

Honestly, they all appeared to be happy that they were now ex-FoF members. Put aside the fact that years of suppressed articulation of their inner most spiritual longings
interfered with their giving adequate expression to, and of, their predicaments. The soul coming out of the dungeon of solitary confinement, when asked, ‘How do you like the open air and sunlight?,’ fumbles for words, and finds few or none, and just smiles and breathes the four imperishable sacred breaths – and skips right by the sequence altogether.

The sadness and/or hilarity, and/or whatever else you wish to attribute to those video clips, is/are directly proportional to who those people are/were in their roles in the bosom of the flying monkey brigade. Carlos C., Carlos L., E. T., H. S. were once particularly favoured individuals near and dear to RB and/or GH. (Which does not mean they escaped from bearing unspeakable burdens yet to be revealed. Some day their stories will be told.)

God bless them, everyone – even the ones that were not identified.

And, Lucifer, the fallen angel (and, you know who that is), may go on eating his tail forever in his self-proclaimed paradise; which most others refer to as fiery hell.

73. Ellen - October 8, 2008

Dragon, #49

Thanks for the Lucifer effect video talk. Man, those TED talks are great! Bruce posted one a few pages back about the a priori modes of the moral mind. Interesting stuff. Anyone else see that? The herd/pack instinct was particularly potent and relevant.

After sifting through 52 pages of blog testimony here, I have come to think that Robert is/was essentially interested in power. He discovered that the charismatic repetition of the mantra “remember your self” in various forms and venues to the collective Fourth Way herd was the magic charm that opened up a treasure trove. Greed, money, sex flowed from there but power is/was the central wedge.

It may also be why some active people with powerful energies of their own, felt themselves gentled or domesticated by him? Their mind subdued more through subtle coercion, fear and control than understanding? (Yuk!) A crushing mirror of how even self remembering can produce its own opposite.

And yes, like a billboard:
“We are here waiting for you at any time without any kind of reproach.”
**************
#63, Jomo

“Then our fraud/manipulation antennae are out and maybe our fraud detector gets set at too sensitive a setting and keeps going off even with ordinary people.”
I agree and it’s nice to hear you say that.

74. Ellen - October 8, 2008

#71, Crouching Tiger,
Nice description, my heart went out to my friends there, understanding their inarticulate question, that they just had to ask to someone else…

“We are (still) here waiting for you at any time without any kind of reproach.”

75. jack - October 8, 2008

Dragon
Thank you for posting the Zimbardo lecture! It goes right to the heart of the fof matter and other world matters.
jx

76. Ellen - October 8, 2008

Lauralupa,
Your travels sound most excellent.
I want to respond to you privately soon.
XO,
Ellen

77. spoonful - October 8, 2008

Is there a link to the Hawkin’s videos? Other than via the GF? I’m feeling rather excluded – given the fervour in which they are being discussed on the blog.

Then again, perhaps I wouldn’t lose any sleep if I missed them.

78. wingsspread - October 8, 2008

spoonful, I think that video, etc. links via GF are only usable by members of GF (makes sense for privacy). Anyway, I think (hope?) that the participants in the videos consented to the posting of the videos there, but this blog is an awfully public place to be seen.

Why not join GF?

79. whalerider - October 8, 2008

Ellen:
“It may also be why some active people with powerful energies of their own, felt themselves gentled or domesticated by him? Their mind subdued more through subtle coercion, fear and control than understanding? ”

My feelings exactly. Essentially, that’s why I left 23 years ago. Although it would have been easier, I refused to give up my power any longer in order to empower Robert Burton and his corrupt organization at my own expense.

>>>>>><<<<<<

It warms my heart to read about so many people seeing through persons the likes of David Hawkins so quickly. Right on, you guys!

All roads lead to the bathroom mirror.

I went to another Al-Anon meeting last night. This time I shared what I have been going through (not someone else’s far fetched philosophy), what I am doing to manage it for myself, and expressed appreciation for the chance to share my personal truth. There was no elitism, no authority figure imposing their viewpoint, no mudslinging, just people being honest with themselves, learning to love themselves and set boundaries with others in their lives.

Today I feel pretty darn centered and healthy. This is how I am empowering myself these days with the addition of using group dynamics to intensify my results, along with eating well, getting rest, exercising, an active sex life, and right livelihood, without the need for mood altering substances. IMO, it doesn’t get any better than that.

Sure, I could spout out the same old bullshit about group work being for people who need it and know they need it…we’ve all heard that before.

But I’m going to cut to the chase:

This new person I have been seeing has been in the Al-Anon program for 26 years, not unlike many of you whom have been in the FOF for long if not longer periods of time.

Something she said to me two days ago as I was talking about my failed marriage that really made a deep impression:

“I need you to be in your power.”

That’s the essence of what healthy group work can do for an individual. She has learned through her hard work over many years to retain her power and needed me to be in touch with mine in order for us to be together. It felt great because of the fact that you can never get enough of what you really don’t want. I don’t want her power, I want to be in more of my own.

Not, “you are a sleeping machine with a demonic lower self”, or “stick with me, I hold the exclusive keys that lead you through the gates of paradise”, or any of that nonsense, but “I need you to be in your power”. What a wonderful request to make of another person you care about!

I say the same to all of you, with all my heart:

I need you to be in your power.

80. You-me-us-they - October 8, 2008

Beautiful Whale!

Going further, strait forward:

YOU,
You,
YOU NEED YOU TO BE IN YOUR POWER.

81. lauralupa - October 8, 2008

When I am older than these small goddamned hills

And there’s no reason for my mind to be still

Oh, how I’ll feel like a beautiful child

Such a beautiful child again

When I have finally found my room filled with toys

Be banging on my crib excited by noise

Oh, how I’ll feel like a beautiful child

Such a beautiful child again

And when there’s nothing to gain

Or bring me pain or pin the blame

On you or myself

And when they finally fall

These wailing walls and burdened crosses

God’s twilights and all

How I’ll feel like a beautiful child

Such a beautiful child again

82. You-me-us-they - October 8, 2008

Hello Unoanimo,
(One spirit that is)

You wrote, marvellously digging “in”:
“… my gut feeling is that the F.O.F. students who went to see (The Real ‘David’, i.e., a living, breathing human being and not a next-lifetime-affirmation or purchased statue’s raincheck for immortality) did and didn’t get what they wanted in a roundabout way…

Instead, they got what they wished (IMO) by the action itself and not the content… ”

First it is worth insisting on the David metaphore. Bravo!

I would go further (seems to be how I “do it” this days!) by saying that they wished the content too!
This connect with Tiger’s take, also worth repeating. He call it permission, I call it empowering themselves.
I explain:
They seem, by choosing the best disappointment, not only to empower themselves “to go” (away from the FOF), but to secure themselves by exhausting some “hope” the “old” could hold.

I would enjoy reading your “further” take on this.

We are in this together aren’t we? Perhaps, “les” Carlos, Elysa and Hub are doing this washing up in public so it can be(come) public square material. I many ways, I benefit and I am not the only one, from what I read here. I do hope they will allow broader “publicity” by showing up here soon.

Much Love to you Unoanimo,and All.

83. Another Name - October 8, 2008

Yes!

I need you to be in your power.
I need me to be in my power

You need to be in your power?
As you wish.

Thanks all of you.

Sunshine
Hammock
Friends and a cat on my lap.

84. You-me-us-they - October 8, 2008

Anther Name, hello,

As you wish?
Perhaps, actually, yes!!!!!, “as you wish” (ask and it is given)
as long as you make sure you feel the difference.

For me, the I need You to…(whatever)
is obvious dis-empowering premisse.

Lovingly strait forward!

85. You-me-us-they - October 8, 2008

Sorry for mis-spelling your name, Another.

Last note on my previous post:
I learnt some few things since I “butterfly” in other gardens than the ones of the Galleria and that makes me very picky when it come to honey!

86. rock that boat - October 8, 2008

After watching the Hawkins clips with Huib and others I felt so sad
for them, I have been there, my heart goes out to them

Here is Pablo Casals birdsong for all of you

87. Tatyana - October 8, 2008

If you could watch tonight’s meeting with Robert you will be even more sad. There are still lots of friends there…

88. Another Name - October 8, 2008

Dear Tatyana,

Help them and show them DH and H and E+C. Might help and remember we all saw the light once.

Patience and time and light and awareness…..and your won loss and grief…..

I sit with you, and feel. know…..

89. somebody - October 9, 2008

The Call of the Loon:

“In art, the steward is often depicted as smaller than the nine of hearts. In the same way, the nine of hearts may be represented as being smaller than the four wordless breaths.”

This idea is illustrated in Michelangelo’s Pieta, in which Mary is twice the size of Christ. Mary, the nine of hearts, holds the sequential Jesus on her lap. *A painting by Rembrandt depicts The Holy Family at Night. In the center are a young woman and an old woman. The shadow of the old woman, representing long BE, is projected on a square, representing the four wordless breaths – the third eye – with the sequential child below. There are six steps leading up to a landing, representing seventh heaven. Rembrandt puts the lower self hiding beneath the stairs, because he wants us to understand that the giant shadow represents the four wordless breaths, and is not to be confused with the lower self. The woman on the right represents long BE combusting, while the woman on the left represents long BE purified of imagination. It is a continuous narrative. The Koran says: “A just leader is like the shadow of Allah on the earth.” The sequence is but a shadow of the third eye on the nine of hearts.”

90. nigel harris price - October 9, 2008

89 somebody

Look – let’s get this straight – REB is not a 9 of Hearts C of G. He is the biggest club in the bag!…………………………………………. Nigel.

91. nigel harris price - October 9, 2008

73 Ellen

It is even worse than power – it is a huge anti-humanity voraciously eating human essences. In other words, REB is the Anti-Christ. N.

92. arthur - October 9, 2008

Unoanimo (218) Page 51.

Today I received an e-mail in response to mine from that link you provided.

He is longer here and neither is the small group that gathered together.

I also received your book gift in good shape.

Charms to You.

93. arthur - October 9, 2008

Sorry, no spell check nor grammer correction. “He is NO longer here”.

94. Yesri Baba - October 9, 2008

95. jack - October 9, 2008

When I was a little boy my parents warned me that as I went out into life I would sometimes meet a bad man.
They just didn’t describe him properly!
But then how could they know?
jx

96. You-me-us-they - October 9, 2008

From Burtonboys!!!!!!!

97. Ellen - October 9, 2008

#21, Arthur,

Thanks for describing your situation so well.

Some of your external descriptions reminded me of various characters from “Trailer Park Boys”. Not sure if you are familiar with that TV series? It’s Canadian, kinda like “The Office”, comic relief about otherwise sorry stuff. You might find it produces a giggle or two? There are a number of episodes posted on YouTube, so search and surf for yourself.

If you like it, the whole series can be downloaded via Torrent with an ADSL/cable connection. Maybe host a neighborhood party watching an episode, everyone brings popcorn and beverage of choice? 🙂

98. ton - October 9, 2008

whalerider circa 79,

“All roads lead to the bathroom mirror.”

when we were little boys and little girls… did we miss anything? something? insight via self-reflection has many facets and depths…. thanks for the reminder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_Phase

99. James Mclemore - October 9, 2008

98. ton & whalerider circa 79,

“All roads lead to the bathroom mirror.”

Thank you whalerider, and thank you ton for that link. Not possible to describe here, but it was a little like a puzzle piece that helped me to see something a bit more about Narcissus, and about mirrors.

100. dragon - October 9, 2008

63. Jomo Piñata – October 7, 2008

Saluton and:
Thank you Jomo!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LIIqZPz5n68

101. dragon - October 9, 2008

65. lauralupa – October 7, 2008

Thank you Lauralupa, I hope you will enjoy it:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v9q1S8qsw-g

The ragpiekers dream
Mark Knopfler

We had no way of staying afloat,
We had to leave on a ferryboat.
Economic refugees,
On the run to Germany.
We had the back of Maggie’s hand,
Times were tough in Geordieland.
We got wor tools and working gear
And humped it all from Newcastle to here.

Why aye man.
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man,
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man.
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man,
Why aye, why aye man.

We’re nomad tribes, travelling boys,
In the dust and dirt and the racket and the noise.
Drills and hammers, diggers and picks,
Mixing concrete, laying bricks.
There’s English, Irish, Scots, the lot.
United Nations what we got.
Brickies, chippies, every trade.
German building, British made.

Why aye man.
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man,
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man.
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man,
Why aye, why aye man.

Nay more work on Maggie’s farm.
Haddaway down the autobahn.
Mine’s a Portakabin bed,
Or a bunk in a Nissen hut instead.

There’s plenty Deutschmarks here to earn.
And German tarts are wunderschön.
German beer is chemical free.
Germany’s alright with me.
Sometimes I miss my river Tyne,
But you’re my pretty fräulein.
Tonight we’ll drink the old town dry,
Keep wor spirit levels high.

Why aye man.
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man,
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man.
Why aye, why aye man.
Why aye man,
Why aye, why aye man.

Sometimes I miss my river Tyne,
But you’re my pretty fräulein.
Tonight we’ll drink the old town dry,
Keep wor spirit levels high.

Sometimes I miss my river Tyne,
But you’re my pretty fräulein.
Tonight we’ll drink the old town dry,
Keep wor spirit levels high.

102. dragon - October 9, 2008

73. Ellen – October 8, 2008

Thank you Ellen:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LjW2tXtBQX0

the first song from the european north

103. dragon - October 9, 2008

75. Jx October 8, 2008

Thank you silent worker:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PYs5zyM9zk8

104. arthur - October 9, 2008

Ellen (97),

I would have to buy a modern and up to date computer and sign up for ‘high speed’ cable.

I live across the street from a mom and pop convenience store that draws “all kinds” of characters. They sell pizza and rent U-hauls.

I heard more than once that watching the “goings on” across the street is better than watching television. In fact, I dont own a television.

I skim over the local paper to see what’s happening around the globe. Sometimes, I use the computer.

Yesterday, I had this un-nerving thought. The next President will be the 44th. The Aztec calendar has some kind of trauma in 2012 and I made a D in economics 101.

I dont much about anything, but I figure in numerology 44 must be positive or a good number. The Aztec calendar could also mean a positive world event and I keep my check-book balanced always.

Time to grow plants.

105. Pavel - October 9, 2008

Hey everyone.

It has been a while since I left the show, but it feels very pleasant to pop back for a little while to see how things are going. How are you all?

I have been doing pretty well, I left my job last week, going on a mini-vacation to get myself sorted out from the stress and madness that is living and working in London. I have been paying attention to current events for the first time in about 4 years, with an equal mix of wonder and dread, having a vague feeling that the world as we know it is balancing between normality and destruction, not knowing and not wanting to tell which direction it will fall in (to me it seems that the decision has not yet been made).

The media portrayal of these turbulent times saddens me immensely, as always creating and constructing more fear and dread, as they always have done.

One thing is for certain, this little crisis is going to shift the public focus to a different version of materialism – materialism with less material. The winners will probably stay the same – we need to work harder now, right? Rather than treating the situation as a new dilemma with an unclear solution yet to be found, we will keep the old attitude and pretend that working harder for equal returns will be a feasible solution. Let’s not lose those jobs and make as much money as we can to buy our security! Who will save us if not the great God of money, who will save us if the Robert Burtons of this world have failed us already.

On the other hand, with things in the material world becoming shadier and harder to deal with, more people will probably feel the urge to avoid the real issues and inner conflicts though escaping to the bliss that is spirituality. Who cares about food, energy and shelter, if I am saving my soul here! There is a lesson to be learnt from feudalism and the system of control, censorship and worship that it spawned.

Still, it would be interesting to have a look at religion/cult memberships in the past 3 months, I would not be surprised if the Christian mafia in particular wasn’t getting stronger and stronger in the USA, slowly becoming the dominant force (sorry, it already has) and molder of consensus reality for the average American.

106. arthur - October 9, 2008

Pavel (105)

Hi, glad to see you again, stranger!

Maybe the pressure will direct the mind of humanity toward normalacy, real heart and mind joined as one? Remember the Condor and Eagle Ideal?

Don’t be a stranger, come back into the “hood” once in a while.

Charms to you.

107. elena - October 9, 2008

Some people neither cut nor lend the axe.
Some ruin the axe so that no one can cut.
That is the name of envy.
It’s destroyed more lives than bombs.

********

Carloses and Eliza, begging for a little recognition from that man, like everyone did with Robert and got treated as if they were backwards from both. We all did but who could say we weren’t backwards when we behaved and those inside continue to behave as if they were retarded? So sorry for both of the Carloses and Eliza and everyone who played their infinite love for Robert and Girard including myself.

For how long can one grieve?

The doctor friend said that meeting the false guru is one of Hercules twelve steps towards awakening. We must all go through it. Said that St. John’s wort is good for depression but of course Nigel, don’t stop taking what you need to take, the Saint John’s is mild even for me.

What an amazing lesson wasn’t it? Thousands of people acting against each other convinced that they were each and on their own going to make it, trying to prove to Robert that we each had something of value that he never acknowledged and redirected us back to the whole, manipulating us backwards and forwards, inside out and outside in making sure no one ever made anything but a fool of himself, herself. Who else will embrace us if not us who neglected ourselves?

Those who do not fit this description can step out of it. I don’t know any.

Thanks Dragon for your many beautiful links. Like Laura’s and other’s, they do help. And the difficult one’s too. Fortunately behind this reality is another reality that can embrace this one.

Good to hear your voice Pavel-Sheik.

Robert is a master at disempowering his followers; we seem to have learnt how to do that well. Maybe some of us could at least study how it is done so that some of us can avoid doing it in the future. I would certainly like to not practice it. I am sorry to those who I’ve disempowered after I’ve felt attacked by them.

I’m not begging. I thought I’d leave, the feeling is there’s little love and where there’s no love nothing can grow. Even the Fellowship grows only because there’s so much blind love.

I wish you well
Elena

108. veramente - October 10, 2008

Pavel, nice to have you back!
You are right the news of the world and especially in the US and Europe are kind of worrisome. I am too between almost excitement and dread of what may be happening, a change for sure.
But please God, save the middle class!

109. lauralupa - October 10, 2008

por Elena querida

daughter of wind, daughter of fire
of soul’s unquenchable desire
rest assured, true love will find you
blossom inside
and bloom all around you

110. Ellen - October 10, 2008

#104, Arthur,
Nice, as always, to hear from you. Sorry, I had wondered about the equipment stuff, but thought to mention it, anyway. You don’t need it, you have your inner smile cookin’.
Good luck in your horticultural experiments!

#107, Elena,
Good to hear from you. You do some of your most balanced writing when you are back in your homeland. I remember some fantastic poetry you wrote (about a year ago?). I remember then being surprised, knowing English was not your mother tongue. Being there must do nice things for you? Rock on!

111. unoanimo - October 10, 2008

You-me-us-they ~

I have not forgotten your invitation; I went back and watched those videos again… I’ll keep it almost-haiku for now ~

One ‘something’ that sets on my heart at 1:55 AM in the morning is the phrase ‘Awakened Feminine-half’… IMO, not to sound bias; though, in all of my findings and meetings, those who have connected the ‘upper’ with the ‘lower’, have seemed to possess a feminine endlessness for empathetic-understanding within their nature (Not that Shams of Tabriz was not a “Spiritual Annihilator”, simply, that he was compassionate with absolute and irrefutable reason, IMO; similar to Yage… So goes the strength of ‘balance’; something I feel is not so steady in the sands of the vineyard or up on ‘Stage’: still, even in the midst of an earthquake, flowers will continue to open and water reflect. It’s ok; Rumi says that we made these bodies we’re in… ‘Imagine’ that workshop!

L.t.y.a.

112. Bares Reposting - October 10, 2008

Goodwin’s Comments (about FOF blog posts)
A revised tale:

It happened in an unknown country at an unknown date that a sly devil was walking past a cafe and met a rich devil. The rich devil was very fat and happy, neither hungry or thirsty, so the sly devil sat down with him in the cafe, ordered some coffee and asked him how he became so prosperous. The rich devil said that there was plenty of business. In the old days he used to buy souls and burn them to charcoal, because when people died they had very good souls that he could take to hell, and all the devils were pleased. But now all the fires in hell were raging brighter than ever, because when people died their souls were covered with cream.

Then the sly devil suggested that perhaps they could do some business together. ‘Teach me how to make even more souls, he said, and I will give you a sign to show which people have souls made by me’, and he ordered more coffee. The rich devil explained that he should teach people to believe that everyone is one, “I AM THAT,” to run around proselytizing about it, and then, after some time, they would grow souls.

The sly devil set to work, organized groups and taught people to believe what he told them to believe. Some of them started to work seriously and tried to put into practice what he taught them. Then they died, and when they came to the gates of heaven, there was St Peter with his keys on one side and the devil on the other. When St Peter was ready to open the gates, the devil would say, ‘May I just ask one question – did you exert yourself in the service of giving Robert Burton sexual gratification?’ ‘Yes, certainly’, the man would answer and thereupon the devil would say, ‘Excuse me, this soul is mine’. This went on for a long time, until they managed somehow to communicate to the earth what was happening at the gates of heaven. Hearing this, the boys he was teaching came to the sly devil and said, ‘Why do you teach us to humiliate ourselves if, when we say we have humiliated ourselves, the devil takes us?’

The sly devil asked, ‘Did I teach you to say you humiliate yourselves? I taught you not to talk about THAT.’ They said, ‘But this was St Peter and the devil!’ and the sly devil said, ‘But have you seen St Peter and the devil in my bed? So do not talk about THAT’. Some people did not talk and still did not manage to get into heaven. The one test in this lifetime for Jomo Piñata and his ilk was to say no to Burton when he wanted them to gyrate enough to cause him to ejaculate on them.

You can change your name, Jomo, and you can read endless self-help books, you can visit your therapist twice a week, but you ruined your soul doing what the rest of us refused to do – enable Robert Burton in his quest to put as much A influence in his grasping mouth as possible. Without witless sociopaths agreeing to be creamed by him Burton would be out of business. Burton is simply a sly devil doing what devils do, it is not his fault, the fault lies in the laps of those enablers that rolled around in bed with him.
Posted Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008

113. arthur - October 10, 2008

Bares Reposting (112),

For a long time I lived in fear that the Fourth Way reading material would turn against me because I was such a poor student.

Then I read a couple of sentences from the books of Collins (it isnt necessary to be close to a group to receive celestial help), and Nicoll (the teacher is living life).

I think the Fourth Way reading material has turned against Robert Earl Burton and who ever wrote the tale of the Sly and Rich Devil.

Oh, Pavel since you “fathered” the Blog, which gave birth to Greater Fellowship and a couple of more sites—-sign the petition. If you havent already.

114. brucelevy - October 10, 2008

112. Bares Reposting

Greg’s back.

115. Jomo Piñata - October 10, 2008

Not sure why he takes it out on me. I was never among the “initiates,” so to speak, although he seems to think I was.

116. Tatyana - October 10, 2008

Those who think that go back to their country (especially to Russia) is an awful option.
Those who think that working in life is impossible and scary.
Those who think that they are supporting something miraculous and beautiful by serving selflessly.
Those who are trying to figure out the teaching because it is not completely senseless.
Those who invested a lot of money in a property or a business.
Those who like the gardens and the concerts and a nice community.
Those who love to travel around the world and have many friends interested in evolution.
Those who think that their role to be scheduled to give Robert sexual favors is given by the Gods to help their higher centers to emerge.

Are those valid reasons to remain in FOF? Or have all those people sold their conscience for an illusion?

Itcan be very convenient to avoid thoughts unrelated to the sequence…

117. whalerider - October 10, 2008

Here’s the wiki address were greg’s fine comments about us can be found: (Do they need to be notified?)

http://thefellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/message/view/home/5725962

I was particularly disgusted by his crude comment about Arthur’s 15 year old housekeeper.

He even posted a private voicemail message from steve the blog moderator, just to make steve’s day.

BTW greg, re: obedience and my creditability to speak on the subject. Your argument about me is false. Wouldn’t a former black slave from the south have more creditability to speak against slavery than a white person from the north? DC is like a slave promoting slavery.

Re: My wish for others to be in their power and your formatory association with the feature of power.

If you remember, power feature is about exerting power over others, like you seek to have on the internet with your various postings….the power to make people feel negative feelings about themselves that you have difficulty containing about yourself. That is typical unhealthy borderline personality behavior. I have seen it before. Why else would you project the idea of us all being deranged and deluded? We are the bathroom mirror for you.

I was speaking about self-empowerment, something healthy we can do for ourselves by setting boundaries and limits. That’s why you were banned from here.

118. brucelevy - October 10, 2008

117. whalerider

I disagree, there’s nothing “borderline” about greg.

119. elena - October 10, 2008

Every time I hear from you I grieve.
Perhaps because you manage to re-establish the same status quo you established long before I ever came along, stating that the world is square and no one can move beyond your lines. The amazing advantage for the people in power in a cult must be that you can make the world square or triangular and get away with it. Does it soothe you to send me good householder messages taking care of the little things so that you can continue to think that everything is in perfect order while the boys continue to get raped night after night and people from every part of the world send money to support your monologues in that one way world in which you couldn’t even make love because you were making love with your imaginary pictures? I suppose this is really not that uncommon. We all make love with the imaginary picture of the person with us but sometimes reality penetrates and we actually experience another being’ s presence in our life, making it whole. I guess I cry because every time I come into contact with you, you remind me of how incomplete we really are and the fact that you actually promote and struggle for the permanence of such incompleteness brings me into a state of deep grief.

So I am just a failure that could not adapt to your made up world? Every one of us who have left are just failures who could not make it? Does that make you feel more heroic? The chosen few who managed to stick it all the way through in that world in which you have to silence everyone else so that no one contradicts you? Is that what power is for? What a ball you and the others in the inner circle must be having getting rid of everyone who threatens your actions and pretending you don’t care how much money you lose in the process. Deep down you enjoy the fact that the only one who is seriously loosing money is Robert because he never gave you much of it anyway. The deep resentment on which the Fellowship functions while the bunch of enablers struggle to prove that they can sacrifice more than the other, more of themselves and anybody else in a race without end with an evil that does not exist. For those who know you, it would be inevitable to not grant you the fact that it is not the money what you care about. You gave it up long ago, although you did try to get me to sign my house over to you even the day before we separated so that you would help me with the papers but I did not and did not get the papers either. I don’t regret it. You overestimated the importance of the papers, selling an imaginary status with your nation like you sell an imaginary “state” in your cult. In the Fellowship you gave up the money so that you could justify for your self that your reasons were pure. You thought that if you didn’t use one penny for your well being or those close to you, we could not charge you with greed. But I charge you with infinite greed. You’d be willing to let a thousand people die if you could continue using your power in your made up world. You’ve allowed everyone in the Fellowship to annihilate themselves so that you and Robert and your immediate enablers continue to preach the division of the lower and the higher on earth and practice it succinctly.

I imagine the only real favour I did you was to try to destroy the Fellowship so that they would find you a place of power again and you could travel more often when what they were trying to accomplish before, was to completely neutralize you because you’d fallen below the accepted behaviour. It was obvious that you didn’t give a dam about Robert, you would not work with him even in his presence and he’d have you sequentially photographed after every dinner but as long as you could keep your own little throne and travel with the money of students from centers you no longer give a dam. Nor does Robert. You both know your boundaries and need each other like nail and dirt. Is it not amazing that two men like you could get away with it so perfectly? You must feel so important saving what you can so that Robert can continue to rape young men at his will while you can expand and remind your followers that the lower self is not the higher self and that in the Fellowship neither you nor Robert nor anyone who respects himself is trying to change the lower self but trying to remain present while the lower self does what it needs, wants and can get away with. “IT IS THE LAW and as long as the law says that we can be a Cult we can be a Cult, and that men over eighteen should know better than to give their ass up to the guru and that people can donate as much as they want because no one is forcing them, then we can rip people off indefinitely convinced that they are supporting a Jesus on earth while you play the Virgin Mary holding the child in his arms.

I noticed you changed the tone of your telephone recordings after I exposed on the blog how much you all sounded like the virgin Mary talking to the sheep. What a ball we are all having with our half lives in and out of the blog now that we can’t have our half lives in and outside the mainstream of the Fellowship. Like everything else, the separating line is just imaginary even if our lives remain broken.

************

Tatyana, you´re so right, that is what being brainwashed means. Everyone makes up excuses so that they can continue to live in their imaginary world. We all do in our own way. If we can´t get some pure imagination right, this world is going to suck us all up.

Laura, Ellen, et al, here we go. My back is all bruised from fighting with one of the dogs who tried to eat somebody´s chickens on my way to this internet store. My heart is all bruised from fighting with my husband who tried to eat all the chicken and made chicken of the cocks too. My brain is all bruised from fighting with you so that I stop hitting the dogs, the husbands and the chicken too. Just be there for a little longer would you?

120. elena - October 10, 2008

Just got this which seems more worth sharing. The bigger picture will hopefully replace this small Cult-ure

Dear friends,

Over the next 48 hours, the world’s leading finance ministers are meeting to thrash out our response to the financial crisis. Instead of bailing out reckless financiers again, we need a buy-in that gives us public ownership and strict new regulations to fix this broken system for good! —

Put your name here!

Watching the markets freefall, we know this crisis will utterly change our daily lives — we’re not just spectators any more, and we’re seeing something new –- people and governments directly intervening in the chaos that until now was controlled by reckless and greedy financiers.

Today and all weekend, extraordinary choices will be made by the world’s most powerful finance ministers, meeting to decide our response to the financial crisis. Together, we must make sure that governments don’t just use our money to bail out the banks, but claim a share of public ownership in these institutions for our future, and oversight powers to fundamentally fix the wider system.

We’ll deliver our call for a global buy-in package in 36 hours to G7 finance ministers and again to a bigger Global Crisis Summit planned for November — please sign the petition at the link below, and forward this email to everyone you know. The decisions made this week will shape our lives for years to come:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

Three weeks ago our petition to regulate global finance was waved by Denmark’s former prime minister as the European Parliament voted.[1] Two weeks ago our US members bombarded Congress with phone calls for a buy-in not a bailout — investing in the banks so they stop choking off capital, while giving the public a share for their money and the power to fix the system — and yesterday, as Britain launched a bold buy-in of its own, word is the United States might finally change course.[2]

Only concerted action by the global community can build a better system, and we can’t leave it to the financiers — so today, we’re launching an emergency campaign calling on leaders for a global public rescue to save all our economies. This is what’s needed — a ‘buy-in’ to financial institutions not a reckless ‘bailout’, massive public investment stimulus to stave off global depression, temporary guarantee of loans/deposits, and strict new regulations to fix this broken system once and for all.[3] It’s a sensible and public-spirited package supported by progressives and expert economists alike — add your name here:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

Leading economists now agree that citizens and our governments are the only force powerful enough to solve this crisis — only the public can mobilise the investment and oversight needed to fix the financiers’ failings, get the economy moving and revive things on a sounder basis. The Great Depression of the 1930s teaches us that we cannot address this crisis with each acting alone — only by acting together can countries head off disaster.

How we respond to this crisis will shape our lives for years to come. We’re still a long way from tackling the fundamental problems of the global economy, but the tide is moving in our direction. So let’s take control of our future in the interests of people not financiers, and raise a worldwide voice across borders for a global public rescue. 3.4 million of us in every nation of the world will get this email — that’s a start. Click below to sign, forward this email to all your friends and family, and let’s raise a voice our leaders can’t ignore:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

With hope and determination,

Paul, Ricken, Graziela, Pascal, Veronique, Iain, Brett, Milena and the whole Avaaz team

PS Congratulations to all those who supported our phone and email campaign on Europe’s climate and energy package this week — it was a stunning victory, we won 95% of what we wanted and our sources say we made a big difference. More soon!

Sources:

1. Winning the vote on financial oversight and regulation in the European Parliament with Denmark’s Poul Rasmussen:
http://www.pes.org/content/view/1401/1700098

Rasmussen’s Parliament speech:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20080922+ITEMS+DOC+XML+V0//EN#creitem19

2. New York Times and NYU economist Paul Krugman on the UK plan and US shift:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/doing-the-right-thing/

3. 18 leading economists from across the political spectrum and around the world — “Rescuing our jobs and savings: what G7/G8 leaders can do”:
http://voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2340

Dr Nouriel Roubini, “Policy Recommendations to Avoid the Meltdown”: http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/253933/revisiting_my_february_paper_the_risk_of_a_systemic_financial_meltdown_the_12_steps_to_financial_disasterand_some_new_policy_recommendations_to_avoid_the_meltdown

121. elena - October 10, 2008

Just got this which seems even more worth sharing. The big picture will hopefully replace this small cult-ure.

Dear friends,

Over the next 48 hours, the world’s leading finance ministers are meeting to thrash out our response to the financial crisis. Instead of bailing out reckless financiers again, we need a buy-in that gives us public ownership and strict new regulations to fix this broken system for good! —

Put your name here!

Watching the markets freefall, we know this crisis will utterly change our daily lives — we’re not just spectators any more, and we’re seeing something new –- people and governments directly intervening in the chaos that until now was controlled by reckless and greedy financiers.

Today and all weekend, extraordinary choices will be made by the world’s most powerful finance ministers, meeting to decide our response to the financial crisis. Together, we must make sure that governments don’t just use our money to bail out the banks, but claim a share of public ownership in these institutions for our future, and oversight powers to fundamentally fix the wider system.

We’ll deliver our call for a global buy-in package in 36 hours to G7 finance ministers and again to a bigger Global Crisis Summit planned for November — please sign the petition at the link below, and forward this email to everyone you know. The decisions made this week will shape our lives for years to come:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

Three weeks ago our petition to regulate global finance was waved by Denmark’s former prime minister as the European Parliament voted.[1] Two weeks ago our US members bombarded Congress with phone calls for a buy-in not a bailout — investing in the banks so they stop choking off capital, while giving the public a share for their money and the power to fix the system — and yesterday, as Britain launched a bold buy-in of its own, word is the United States might finally change course.[2]

Only concerted action by the global community can build a better system, and we can’t leave it to the financiers — so today, we’re launching an emergency campaign calling on leaders for a global public rescue to save all our economies. This is what’s needed — a ‘buy-in’ to financial institutions not a reckless ‘bailout’, massive public investment stimulus to stave off global depression, temporary guarantee of loans/deposits, and strict new regulations to fix this broken system once and for all.[3] It’s a sensible and public-spirited package supported by progressives and expert economists alike — add your name here:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

Leading economists now agree that citizens and our governments are the only force powerful enough to solve this crisis — only the public can mobilise the investment and oversight needed to fix the financiers’ failings, get the economy moving and revive things on a sounder basis. The Great Depression of the 1930s teaches us that we cannot address this crisis with each acting alone — only by acting together can countries head off disaster.

How we respond to this crisis will shape our lives for years to come. We’re still a long way from tackling the fundamental problems of the global economy, but the tide is moving in our direction. So let’s take control of our future in the interests of people not financiers, and raise a worldwide voice across borders for a global public rescue. 3.4 million of us in every nation of the world will get this email — that’s a start. Click below to sign, forward this email to all your friends and family, and let’s raise a voice our leaders can’t ignore:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

With hope and determination,

Paul, Ricken, Graziela, Pascal, Veronique, Iain, Brett, Milena and the whole Avaaz team

PS Congratulations to all those who supported our phone and email campaign on Europe’s climate and energy package this week — it was a stunning victory, we won 95% of what we wanted and our sources say we made a big difference. More soon!

Sources:

1. Winning the vote on financial oversight and regulation in the European Parliament with Denmark’s Poul Rasmussen:
http://www.pes.org/content/view/1401/1700098

Rasmussen’s Parliament speech:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20080922+ITEMS+DOC+XML+V0//EN#creitem19

2. New York Times and NYU economist Paul Krugman on the UK plan and US shift:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/doing-the-right-thing/

3. 18 leading economists from across the political spectrum and around the world — “Rescuing our jobs and savings: what G7/G8 leaders can do”:
http://voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2340

Dr Nouriel Roubini, “Policy Recommendations to Avoid the Meltdown”: http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/253933/revisiting_my_february_paper_the_risk_of_a_systemic_financial_meltdown_the_12_steps_to_financial_disasterand_some_new_policy_recommendations_to_avoid_the_meltdown

———-

ABOUT AVAAZ
Avaaz.org is an independent, not-for-profit global campaigning organization that works to ensure that the views and values of the world’s people inform global decision-making. (Avaaz means “voice” in many languages.) Avaaz receives no money from governments or corporations, and is staffed by a global team based in Ottawa, London, Rio de Janeiro, New York, Paris, Sydney and Geneva.

Click here to learn more about our largest campaigns.

Don’t forget to check out our Facebook and Myspace and Bebo pages!

You are getting this message because you signed “Stand with Tibet – Support the Dalai Lama” on 2008-03-23 using the email address c.g.krings@t-online.de.
To ensure that Avaaz messages reach your inbox, please add avaaz@avaaz.org to your address book. To change your email address, language settings, or other personal information, https://secure.avaaz.org/act/index.php?r=profile&user=3978b566d7c01a27a929d5bdce4288ac&lang=en, or simply go here to unsubscribe.

To contact Avaaz, please do not reply to this email. Instead, write to info@avaaz.org. You can also send postal mail to our New York office: 857 Broadway, 3rd floor, New York, NY 10003 U.S.A.

If you have technical problems, please go to http://www.avaaz.org.

122. rock that boat - October 10, 2008

116. Tatyana

Spot on Tatyana!
Thank you.

123. lauralupa - October 10, 2008
124. arthur - October 10, 2008

Whalerider (117),

I got to the part where it was said that the police should be called on my fifteen year old housekeeper.

Her father I heard gets out of prison in January—35 years for cooking meth. The police know all about her. Picked up three times by the CPS (child protective services).

One time in 1995 I was pedaling past her house (fourth house down) when I heard a tiny voice say, “Hey, you, come back here”. It was her and twin sister wearing diapers and sitting on their porch.

When she is here with me, she asks if there is anything else she can do and thanks me for paying her. Then she leaves. I have her cell phone number, I can go down to her house and watch television. I pay her to wash my dogs. She has been with me when I was slobbering drunk, slobbering sad, angry at her so on and so forth.

A few minutes before school let which was 30 minutes ago, the “stripper” came over and borrowed $1.25 for a drink. I asked her how much she made “stripping” and she ran down a list of things. She makes more money staying out late. $150.00 an hour. I wanted to ask why she is always coming over here broke, but didnt. The police I’m absolutely sure know about her.

When school did let out my 15 year housekeeper’s mother and eight year old sister walked passed and the 8 year old veered off into my yard and was greeted by four tail wagging dogs.

The girl is in second grade and sometimes does her homework here. She likes the attention of me “helping” her although she is capable of doing it herself. I did it once for her because it was so much fun, and second grade is about the limit of my abilities. She just lets me watch now. I’m sure the police know about her too. Her father was released from prison last December.

These are “biker” children. It is much more dangerous being around them than having the cops come by called in by a lunatic.

Off the subject. A “biker” enforcer came to my house over some problem in the neighborhood. He said, “if you value your life, dont help him”. Months later he comes again knocks on the door and says, “do you have some WD40”. I did and he brought it back.

Yes, call the cops about my fifteen year old house-cleaner.

125. arthur - October 10, 2008

Sorry for the confusion these girls are half-sisters. Two different fathers.

126. arthur - October 10, 2008

Sorry again, a lunatic made so by misreading what should have made him sane.

127. elena - October 10, 2008

Thanks for the relativity Arthur. I´ll stop howling immediately! Your backyard sounds as alive as the blog, wouldn´t change it for anything! No wonder you´re one of the healthiest communicator of the Public Square. I´ve so much to learn from you, from you all.

Great link Laura, thanks. I´ll look into it more deeply.

Got this today which seems worth sharing with those interested:

Part one:

Dear friends,

Over the next 48 hours, the world’s leading finance ministers are meeting to thrash out our response to the financial crisis. Instead of bailing out reckless financiers again, we need a buy-in that gives us public ownership and strict new regulations to fix this broken system for good! —

Put your name here!

Watching the markets freefall, we know this crisis will utterly change our daily lives — we’re not just spectators any more, and we’re seeing something new –- people and governments directly intervening in the chaos that until now was controlled by reckless and greedy financiers.

Today and all weekend, extraordinary choices will be made by the world’s most powerful finance ministers, meeting to decide our response to the financial crisis. Together, we must make sure that governments don’t just use our money to bail out the banks, but claim a share of public ownership in these institutions for our future, and oversight powers to fundamentally fix the wider system.

We’ll deliver our call for a global buy-in package in 36 hours to G7 finance ministers and again to a bigger Global Crisis Summit planned for November — please sign the petition at the link below, and forward this email to everyone you know. The decisions made this week will shape our lives for years to come:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

Three weeks ago our petition to regulate global finance was waved by Denmark’s former prime minister as the European Parliament voted.[1] Two weeks ago our US members bombarded Congress with phone calls for a buy-in not a bailout — investing in the banks so they stop choking off capital, while giving the public a share for their money and the power to fix the system — and yesterday, as Britain launched a bold buy-in of its own, word is the United States might finally change course.[2]

Only concerted action by the global community can build a better system, and we can’t leave it to the financiers — so today, we’re launching an emergency campaign calling on leaders for a global public rescue to save all our economies. This is what’s needed — a ‘buy-in’ to financial institutions not a reckless ‘bailout’, massive public investment stimulus to stave off global depression, temporary guarantee of loans/deposits, and strict new regulations to fix this broken system once and for all.[3] It’s a sensible and public-spirited package supported by progressives and expert economists alike — add your name here:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

Leading economists now agree that citizens and our governments are the only force powerful enough to solve this crisis — only the public can mobilise the investment and oversight needed to fix the financiers’ failings, get the economy moving and revive things on a sounder basis. The Great Depression of the 1930s teaches us that we cannot address this crisis with each acting alone — only by acting together can countries head off disaster.

How we respond to this crisis will shape our lives for years to come. We’re still a long way from tackling the fundamental problems of the global economy, but the tide is moving in our direction. So let’s take control of our future in the interests of people not financiers, and raise a worldwide voice across borders for a global public rescue. 3.4 million of us in every nation of the world will get this email — that’s a start. Click below to sign, forward this email to all your friends and family, and let’s raise a voice our leaders can’t ignore:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/global_public_rescue

With hope and determination,

Paul, Ricken, Graziela, Pascal, Veronique, Iain, Brett, Milena and the whole Avaaz team

PS Congratulations to all those who supported our phone and email campaign on Europe’s climate and energy package this week — it was a stunning victory, we won 95% of what we wanted and our sources say we made a big difference. More soon!

128. elena - October 10, 2008

Part two:

Sources:

1. Winning the vote on financial oversight and regulation in the European Parliament with Denmark’s Poul Rasmussen:
http://www.pes.org/content/view/1401/1700098

Rasmussen’s Parliament speech:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20080922+ITEMS+DOC+XML+V0//EN#creitem19

2. New York Times and NYU economist Paul Krugman on the UK plan and US shift:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/doing-the-right-thing/

3. 18 leading economists from across the political spectrum and around the world — “Rescuing our jobs and savings: what G7/G8 leaders can do”:
http://voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2340

Dr Nouriel Roubini, “Policy Recommendations to Avoid the Meltdown”: http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/253933/revisiting_my_february_paper_the_risk_of_a_systemic_financial_meltdown_the_12_steps_to_financial_disasterand_some_new_policy_recommendations_to_avoid_the_meltdown

———-

ABOUT AVAAZ
Avaaz.org is an independent, not-for-profit global campaigning organization that works to ensure that the views and values of the world’s people inform global decision-making. (Avaaz means “voice” in many languages.) Avaaz receives no money from governments or corporations, and is staffed by a global team based in Ottawa, London, Rio de Janeiro, New York, Paris, Sydney and Geneva.

Click here to learn more about our largest campaigns.

Don’t forget to check out our Facebook and Myspace and Bebo pages!

You are getting this message because you signed “Stand with Tibet – Support the Dalai Lama” on 2008-03-23 using the email address c.g.krings@t-online.de.
To ensure that Avaaz messages reach your inbox, please add avaaz@avaaz.org to your address book. To change your email address, language settings, or other personal information, https://secure.avaaz.org/act/index.php?r=profile&user=3978b566d7c01a27a929d5bdce4288ac&lang=en, or simply go here to unsubscribe.

To contact Avaaz, please do not reply to this email. Instead, write to info@avaaz.org. You can also send postal mail to our New York office: 857 Broadway, 3rd floor, New York, NY 10003 U.S.A.

If you have technical problems, please go to http://www.avaaz.org.

129. veramente - October 11, 2008

hey bloggers! it feels like some of us exausted the fof topic a bit and we cannot become angry over and over again (speking for myself here), or analyze this cult phenomena much further. But being an insider of this blog still going after almost 2 years, I am reminded of what an IMPACT this reading place is for people who are contemplating joining the FOF.
Not to mention the people who are still members but feel like they have had doubts for a long time and they just need a little push out of the fof trap.
The fof cult is dying! Vive le blog!

130. Yesri Baba - October 11, 2008

124 arthur

” a lunatic made so by misreading what should have made him sane.”

That’s exactly right. You are ten times the man he will ever be.

131. Yesri Baba - October 11, 2008

Really bares reposting-

71. a former student – September 10, 2008
I can’t believe this. . Greg is not only reappears like the evil witch in “Sleeping Beauty” but gets the whole discussion to deal with his favorite subject-which is what an wonderful enlightened and very bright being Greg is and what a victim of injustice done by those imbeciles too f*cking stupid to see what a great mind and such a wonderful enlightened and in no way immature level of being he has. Greg has a magic touch not only do all discussions he participates in revolve around him he also transforms them descending octaves corrupting or destroying anything useful in a dialogue..
I have experienced his dementia reoccurring over and over. If there is any proof of a Law of recurrence Greg is the proof. He never grows, never changes and He has opinion’s on “All and Everything” which are superior even to Gurdjieff’s and Ouspensky’s. One time I asked him to meet me personally and he began whining and crying like the professional victim he portrays on the internet. He whined so badly that some delicate and not at all hysterical ladies believed I was threatening him. I really let it go as being to serious an attack of stupid to respond to. To suggest that if he is brave enough to be such a total asshole and personally insulting online he do so in person is not a threat except to his false on line ego. It is a statement of what an immature, not too bright coward he is. I am a trained mental health and drug and alcohol counselor. I have dealt with many disturbed individuals and not attacked them. It is different speaking to someone in person. I have looked at addict’s, Alcoholics and the mental ill in the eye and had to teach them the idea that they “Change or die”. He is a particular type of internet coward more common amongst teenage boys than those over 20 . His life seems to revolve around his persona as the biggest asshole in any Gurdjieff-Ouspensky discussion. He has developed his “shtick” as well as any old borsht belt comic. He is the Don Rickles of the online 4th way. He insults people online because he cannot deal with real people. It is a insubstantial substitution for an emotional life. He is surrounded by negativity because that is the emotional and intellectual atmosphere he functions in. He transforms the online environment to something suitable for his false personality. I certainly would not go to jail for assaulting him. As I said the real threat is dealing with a real person away from the layers of protection afforded by the anonymity of the computer.
As for his personal attacks on me. There is nothing in my life I need to hide or be ashamed of. Greg’s repeated assaults on different individuals on every 4th way oriented site only show the fact that Greg has been unable to actually apply the 4th way system of personal effort, consciousness, and understanding to transform himself’. Any study of his writing shows He is only capable of formatory associate thinking in relation to ideas that require an equal emotional development to experience. He imagines and presents himself a uniquely intelligent individual. He imagines that the reason others “attack” him is because they are too stupid to see that he is right about almost everything. He is actually rather limited intellectually, has limited attention span, poor grasp of concepts as opposed to words and lacks a coherent integrated understanding of the different ideas of the system.

Rather than a particularly gifted and unique individual there is one who is seriously flawed and one who is apparently totally invisible to themselves. He sees nothing of his effect on others, has no feedback for his own actions. He is the best example of a sleeping machine and how the ideas of the system cannot function in mechanical parts of functions on the blog. He lacks shame.

Yes I was and am An Addict, Alcoholic and Mentally ill. I also returned to College and received certificates in Community Social Services, and drug and alcohol counseling, I worked for several years in a Mental Health facility and also did academic studies in various areas. such as logic, debate, critical thinking, Writing for the Humanities, statistics and other areas. So I can and have offered to “debate” Greg. If Greg actually wanted a real logical argument by inclination and training I am equipped. Of course he doesn’t want to communicate even in the structured dialogue of an argument or debate.
He says he doesn’t like or care about these people. “These people” are his emotional life. He is the only one haunting the 4th way groups being such an Asshole. He has been doing it for years. He is like the ghost in the machine.
In terms of the 4th way both in theory and practice I have real practical experience dealing with the process of transformation both in myself and others. Greg’s claims to be a student of the 4th way make me feel tremendously ashamed at the experience of Some newcomer to the ideas who actually reads the results of his unsuccessful studies of the 4th way. His writing is imitative drivel. The ability to use good grammar, a spell check and to imitate Ouspensky’s or Gurdjieff’s style only indicates a fool at work.
As usual The Gr*gster has found that point of injustice so that once again he can attack the poor moderator and make the whole group about him. Once again he can be the perpetual victim. Over and over he is the “rebel without a clue”. Attacking those who try and serve others by moderating a group. In his limited consciousness he cannot imagine anyone being motivated by anything above his own petty grandiosity. Over and over he draws those unfamiliar with his patterns into the same circular meaningless arguments. It is always about Greg. It is unfortunate that any description of his behavior sounds so repulsive and warped that it is difficult to belief. and not think it is an unjustified personal attack on an innocent party. There seems to be an inexhaustible supply of those eager to stand up for his right to be obnoxious like many others tried to “give the poor little misunderstood victim” a break and was attacked several times by the vindictive little guy.
Thus far no one has found any other way of dealing with the Gr*gster than banning him. I don’t care much either way, I don’t check in to the blog often, don’t keep up with the current material and I post infrequently.
It is not so much that there is anything unique about Greg’s mechanical features but they are at such odds, in such direct contrast to his arrogant, grandiose ideas of himself as a more “conscious man”. It is hard to grasp how someone who goes on and on about the 4th way at such length cannot grasp that it is about transforming oneself. The 4th way is not necessary for those who are damaged. There are other forms of therapy and support groups to get over “being a victim”. None of us start off as conscious, none of us start off well, we all need to develop and transform, to give up some things and develop other attributes. There are successful programs of therapy that produce dramatic changes in the area of giving up being a victim.
Perhaps it is time for Greg to consider applying the 4th way ideas and for those who have been victimized by his tramp feature wasting others time, space and energy to not continuing to be codependents or enables in his imaginary world.
I have made an effort to edit this and spell check because when dealing with someone who is very formatory you can be speaking of eternal life and they will fuss over the grammer.
.

132. ton - October 11, 2008

Jomo around 115

“Not sure why he takes it out on me….”

A “grope” or two as to why…. he is obviously a hate-filled individual, he can barely contain his rage, he really does need a way to release the hate which threatens to completely consume him, that’s why he hangs onto this forum so desperately, it’s an outlet for his rage, it’s cathartic, even therapeutic. He looks for targets here and when he feels threatened, for whatever reason, or if he perceives a “weakness” he attacks. If he thinks he “knows” who you are (beyond the blog), he feels he has an “upper-hand” and with that, a sense of “magical” (if tenuous) control over another human being…. this is his imaginary sense of power. Bruce, I agree, he is beyond borderline, this is a deeply disturbed individual who needs the sort of therapy he scoffs at. I sense he didn’t get enough of the right kind of love and positive feedback from his father. That “poem” he left over on the wiki page reflects his homicidal rage and homosexual fantasies. Greg, if you’re reading here…. are you familiar with Lacan? He has some interesting ideas about the human psyche, the essential emptiness of the individual, how the subject fills the emptiness and what with… how the “mirror” works… it might do you some good to have a look. I’d wish you well but well wishes are not enough, you really need professional help.

133. arthur - October 11, 2008

Yesri Baba (127),

Thanks for your support!!

I like veramente have been here since the beginning of the blog.

I realize that some people are wizards with words and can make mince meat out of me in an argument. So, I avoid tickling their vanity.

I’m here on this blog to learn things and I do. People have contributed all kinds of things I never heard about. I was going to list a few things but my mind went blank. As in what are you talking about? Robert Earl Burton?

Anyway, in my neighborhood they no nothing about Robert Earl Burton and the fellowship of Friends. If I told them I know what they would say, “we thought you were crazy now we know”.

Otherwise, I had a O’Douds (?).05 % alcoholic beer today. First beer of any kind in five months.

I’m here to learn not become a matador for a raving lunatic gone mad.

Thanks again for your support!!

134. unoanimo - October 11, 2008

There was a time when the drama surrounding the shenanigans of Robert and the inner circle sat in the background of my life and entertained something very quiet, very subtle, almost like hearing another radio station tuning ‘in’ and playing within the louder wavelength (my own drama) station; it was a sort of magnetic crutch that my redeemer-thirst was attracted to and talked about allot… Having been an FOF ‘student’ on the fence-line of the second circle of three belonging to those who live in Oregon House (in control), can and was ‘family-life’, though, like so much that searching finds, it was only shadow dancing, shadow mass and shadow boxing with myself… I almost started to read the link to Greg’s blogsite and stopped and scrolled back; another ‘Advertising of Hell’ that I do not need to sip my coffee with (if you know what I mean). I also often think about the impact to G.H.’s sons via the information given out here on the blog… I wonder where I draw my own limits in introducing a new person to my life’s ‘pain-museum’ and I also yearn that Greg’s and G.H.’s personal suffering can be respected with the dignity of a nurse in a battlefield hospital, is so far as to not add to myself their burden in exchange for denying attention to my own, denying my own shadow more form so that I can sense it and be with it without mind attachments polluting the dance by connecting others webs to its ancient corners… I ask myself ‘Do I read the bad news because I cannot create enough ‘real’ good news for my own life-autonomy.’ And is the reason that I am where I am (when sipping to the Newspaper from Hell) because that’s where I have always been and not known of it’s most fundamental roots and reasons? Certainly, (IMO), I have learned enough about the pictorial depiction of hurricanes, that, when I see one on the radar, I do not run to Google to try and figure out what it is again: so, with Greg, I know, I knew a year ago and I still know: IMO, there’s nothing to say against him and everything to say for a better ‘World Report’… Every dart sent his way breeds a thorn on the thrower.

135. tina - October 11, 2008

Anyone know why the David Hawkins videos have been removed from GF, I also checked youtube: again nothing.
The only remaing one is Huib with DW on GF.
If anyone knows anything… or perhaps has a copy; could maybe consider putting it on youtube or at least put it somewhere slightly public. go on.
t

136. Ellen - October 11, 2008

Arthur, 122#
Thanks for that, too.
”a lunatic made so by misreading what should have made him sane.” – and lived to tell the tale. That makes you a hero.

Whalerider,
I like hearing about your AlAnon experiences. It’s a very fine “organization”, whose raison d’etre and entrance pass is simply the personal suffering caused by alcohol abuse. Great community of individuals who make no requirements upon you. A far cry from…

137. Draco - October 11, 2008

Another newsletter. Who’s writing this stuff?
October 2008
Gurdjieff

Remember yourself always and everywhere.

Gurdjieff

Gurdjieff taught self-remembering as a fierce warrior fights in battle. He warred against sleep, and the system that he taught presented human beings as sleeping machines and the radical approach that was needed to awaken. He was a pioneer of self-remembering in the West, while he kept the origin of his teaching mysterious. Yet although his system included a cosmology of universal laws, he rated them below the practical effort of self-remembering. Even during his fascinating, idiosyncratic discussions with his students on ‘man the machine’ and the earth as a ‘pain factory’, Gurdjieff would always remind his students that the Work was for awakening. In one meeting with his students, he pointed out that they had all missed something in their efforts at self-observation. When they could not discover what he meant, he told them, ‘You did not remember yourselves.’

Self-remembering is the central idea of the Fourth Way. In Gurdjieff’s cosmology, the birthright of a human being is to be awake but the psychological condition of sleep prevents it. Because of this condition, humanity is uninterested in awakening, and if a human-being discovers they are ‘asleep’, they will find an excuse to forget or deny it. So Gurdjieff taught self-remembering as an experiment to demonstrate its value and as a way of life. He taught his students the difference between being ‘asleep’ and being ‘awake’. He taught self-remembering as a continual, practical effort, bringing one’s attention to one’s Self at the same time as the activity that one is engaged in.

Gurdjieff created the conditions for the modern Fourth Way and his teachings made it possible for a Fourth Way school to exist in the modern era. By using his practical methods, one lays the foundation for personal work. From this comes the desire for awakening and the valuation for efforts. One looks for a group of like-minded people with the aim to awaken and discovers that a Fourth Way school is rare and there are challenges to awakening. Then comes the inspiration to continue, perhaps from talking with someone else who has the same aim. As the personal struggle continues, one understands that the idea of self-remembering is simple but the effort is difficult. One can balance this understanding with another, as so movingly phrased by Rumi, who says, ‘let the beauty we love be what we do’: the state of being present is beautiful, worth every effort. And worth more.

138. dragon - October 11, 2008

Greg is not attacking anyone on the blog, isn’t he? Really?

His “extra-blog-activities” are increasing dramatically ever since he saw: Great, they are talking about me again on the blog!

On this occasion he is in the bath of attention. The more the blog is grumbling about him the more he will be able to create new “dialogues”.

Maybe Greg is in his fifth year at university to try on psychiatry.
The blog is his “home work”: We should enable his student movement.

By the way I am also missing Winnie the fish. After his last statement:

~ “he has a wonderful life full of travelling etc. and the ~ two friendships in the FoF are his reason to stay” ( the friendships ARE really and truly a reason to bear these conditions if there exist no other friendships or nobody offers him a supportive friendship).

The 4. Way is not the intellectual property of Greg, Burton, etc…..

Thank you ALL for your posts!!!

139. spoonful - October 11, 2008

I recently stumbled upon Amnesty International’s (the human rights watch group) definition for psychological abuse which includes the following behaviour patterns.

– Isolation of victim
– Induced debility-producing exhaustion
– Monopolisation of perceptions, including obsessiveness and possessiveness
– Threats, such as death to self, victim, family or friends
– Degradation, including humiliation, denial of victim’s power, and verbal name-calling
– Drug or alcohol administration
– Altered states of consciousness produced by a hypnotic state
– Occasional indulgences that keep hope alive that the abuse will cease

Reflecting on my time in the Fellowship of Friends, I reckon I could put a tick next to most of these at some time or other.

140. veramente - October 11, 2008

132 tina

Anyone know why the David Hawkins videos have been removed from GF, I also checked youtube: again nothing.
The only remaing one is Huib with DW on GF.
If anyone knows anything… or perhaps has a copy; could maybe consider putting it on youtube or at least put it somewhere slightly public. go on.
—————————-
A few days ago I was able to watch the videos on GF and they were painful to watch both with Huib and Carlos.

141. arthur - October 11, 2008

To whom it may concern: Now isn’t that business like.

My ME Millinnium telephone connected computer freezes at the private message icon on GF.

I glanced around on other people’s “pages” on GF especially under their Photographs looking to see what they have, for example, “send message, a blue cross, stuff like that.

Under my photo-icon there is not much. “Share” and that’s about it. Now, that I am world wide and notorious maybe that’s the way it should be. So, I’m sharing this message with the world.

Do not under any circumstances join Robert Earl Burton’s Church of Divine Presence (aka The Fellowship of Friends)

142. nigel harris price - October 11, 2008

134 draco

All depends on which self you remember! I think I should state that Whitman penned: “I sing the body electric”. How far is that from the ‘body communal’ or the ‘body accepted by REB’?…..Nigel

143. You-me-us-they - October 11, 2008

Hello Unoanimo,

You wrote:

I wonder where I draw my own limits in introducing a new person to my life’s ‘pain-museum’ and I also yearn that Greg’s and G.H.’s personal suffering can be respected with the dignity of a nurse in a battlefield hospital,

This is the only way you could of “assitance” when the bell rings” and help is needed.

Inspired.

144. You-me-us-they - October 11, 2008

Hello Arthur,

Just that: Hello!
Your posts do have a “special” quality,
something “exotic and familiar”.
I can’t really say more…

145. fofblogmoderator - October 11, 2008

127 & 128 are newly moderated

146. nigel harris price - October 11, 2008

I thought this passage from a little book I was recommended when taking a Pre-School Leader’s Course. I felt that we were descending into ‘bickering’ again on the blog and something resolutionary was needed.

Dibs – In Search of Self

(The moving story of an emotionally lost child who found his own way back)

by Virginia M. Axline

“Dibs had had his dark moments and had lived for a while in the shadows of life. But he had had the opportunity to move out of those dark moments and discover for himself that he could cope with the shadows and sunshine in his life.

Perhaps there is more understanding and beauty in life when the glaring sunlight is softened by the pattern of shadows. Perhaps there is more depth in a relationship that has weathered some storms. Experience that never disappoints or saddens or stirs up feelings is a bland experience with little challenge or variation in colour. Perhaps when we experience confidence and faith and hope that we see materialise before our eyes this builds up within us a feeling of inner strength, courage, and security.

We are all personalities that grow and develop as a result of all our experiences, relationships, thoughts, and emotions. We are the sum total of all the parts that go into the making of a life.”

147. elena - October 11, 2008

Thanks Unoanimo for the photograph. It´s a valid one. Without pretending to make it a justification for there are none, I still question to what extent must one protect those who do not have the slightest inclination to protect anyone else but themselves? I struggle with that question every time I´m going to write about Girard or to Girard and as you can see, it runs me over.

Nevertheless, I didn´t feel good after posting that post so there it is.

To be honest, it is not Girard´s sons what bother me. They are adult enough by now and have plenty to process. The truth will help them rather than harm them. I think anyone connected is much better off if we understand that we are dealing with a man and many other people who have divided into two personalities and are hurting people without the slightest concern. One of the main difficulties for me and others is that we do love the simple human being that tried his best to do the right thing but avoiding to look straight in the face at the other personality who simply overrun people indiscriminately to make it work at no matter who´s cost, does not help me or anyone else involved and least of all Girard or the rest of enablers. If they can ever realize how far they´ve gone and forgive themselves, we´ll all stand a better chance than if they don´t. As I think about these things, it feels good to have posted that post. The incongruencies of the personalities are so obvious when one looks with the magnifying glass at the small details that anything that helps, helps. And when I write them it is because I still need help with them so this dialogue actually is what I need.

I do not expect you to agree. I thank you for the subtle tone of the photograph. In that volume, dialogue is possible.

148. unoanimo - October 11, 2008

Hello Elena ~

Yes. These days and nights, I too am walking on ‘pins and needles’ in regards to two worlds ‘acting’ as one.

You wrote ~ “Nevertheless, I didn´t feel good after posting that post so there it is.”

And ~ “As I think about these things, it feels good to have posted that post.”
—————–

Maybe the “Without pretending to make it a justification for there are none…” actually occurred between seeing the ‘aha’ and then thinking in another direction… (?) Yes, just because we know which road to take doesn’t mean we can just up from our knitting; I knit for sure…

You wrote ~ “I think anyone connected is much better off if we understand that we are dealing with a man and many other people who have divided into two personalities and are hurting people without the slightest concern.”
————–

In my life these days, it could also apply to many of us as ~ ‘I think anyone connected to themselves is much better off if I understand that I am dealing with a life and many other internal relationships who have divided into two personalities and are hurting me without the slightest understanding.’ (That’s my paragraph re-write upon me and isn’t meant to be a ‘photograph’ for anyone.)

Truly Elena, I feel that one of the best things I can do for my friends these days, who are still ‘in’ the FOF and out, is to hand my camera to them and let them take pictures with it as they please… The FOF is a ‘stage’, (IMO), like the third month is to the nine of a fetus; it denied much and also allowed us to give and receive the strongest friendships in our lives to date: we are connected through this experience as ‘brothers and sisters’ that’s simply undeniable and growing/changing by the minute…

If you truly do not wish something to remain on the blog, you can always ask to have it removed; believe me, everything we’ve written on this forum is search-able and quickly find-able by anyone typing in the ‘right’ lines or keywords…

I agree with you and there are no rules when dialog is ‘needed’; the need itself is chaotic enough to determine that… I should know.

To me, there’s really nothing to rescue from the net, except the love that wove it in the first place… Our souls have jumped inside a most mysterious inheritance called ‘The human-being’ and to be ‘human’ is indeed, very relative… More and more I am finding that my expectations of others are ‘effects’ (like puss or phlegm) from my subconscious, spirit-condition, i.e., from a place where there are disagreements between parties that my attention has not been invited to attend: so, these nights I try and show up at these ‘parties’ without crashing them… Maybe it’s not about being seen at the party and more about acknowledging that for many a moon, the Welcome mat has been stationed at the back door and not the front, that so much of ourselves is ‘out there’, banging on the front door of a house that has two fronts…

L.t.y.e.

149. lauralupa - October 12, 2008

unoanimo I love the things you are saying

nigel, let’s keep singing the body electric!

not many words these days,

just absorbing

150. Another Name - October 12, 2008

Hello All,

Weird that the video of C-rl-s and -l-iz- is gone. The video with David hawkins….I saw it everal times and every time it gave me more a picture about were I once was and got a better understanding.

I wonder why it disappeared…..it was such a clear video of the need for authortiy, the insecurity, the dependability on others……of my time in the fellowship……

Strange….?

151. unoanimo - October 12, 2008

Another Name ~

It’s most likely because it was recorded and uploaded onto the GF without their knowledge/permission; then there’s the privacy and unwanted exposure aspect, i.e., if it were to get on YouTube or pirated and spread all over cyberspace… Starting out anew, some cannot ‘afford’ to have their new bosses or possible mentors find them with eggshell fragments via the FOF in their pockets… That’s my guess.

152. Crouching Tiger - October 12, 2008

Elena 147.

You’re raising a number of interesting points which touch on other discussions on the David Hawkins videos and Feminine Dominance recently…

Do you remember when we attended a play a couple of years back featuring your daughter? You were with GH and a number of other students were present. The play – ‘Twelfth Night’ – was performed in the open air with a stately English home as a magnificent backdrop.

I recall you and GH arriving quite late, when most of the audience had set up their picnics on the ground (there was no seating) in preparation for the start of the performance. GH had to sit on a chair because of his disability, and I remember him setting the chair up right in the middle of a group of picnickers who were already established there on the lawn, for the best possible view…

There was quite a bit of fuss and scuffle as people rightly complained that their previously fine view of proceedings had now been blocked by GH’s rather large form!

GH simple sat there oblivious to it all and wouldn’t move, while everyone frenzied around him. I think this was intended as some kind of lesson on FD for us all, although (like students pushing to the front of queues) it just came across as plain obstinacy and a stupid refusal to acknowledge the needs of others.

When you talk about the personality that wanted simply to ‘overrun people indiscriminately’ this small example is as good as any. I also remember GH, when I questioned him once about RB’s sexual mores, speaking in admiring tones of RB’s ability to take what he wanted without worrying about any other issues that action created, for him it seemed to be the sign of an evolved man.

The reverse side to this personality may be the lost-yet-yearning ex-students (or soon to be) in those DH videos, I don’t know. Intensely vulnerable, trying to grasp the question with a firm hand. It is as if the sensation of Strength or Will went into one narrow-but-definite aspect of the personality, leaving the rest, which turned out to be the greater part, helpless….

Presumably, what we all wish for – or enjoy the most when it acts through us – is the time when Strength and Will flow effortlessly into every corner of our bodies, conversing with other necessary characteristics like Justice, a sense of balance and that endless wellspring of consideration that can’t distinguish ‘others’ from our own simple self. Happy to give to both.

I guess it really is quite strange, this process… how the best of intentions can lead to hell!

153. nigel harris price - October 12, 2008

151 Crouching Tiger

Did anyone believe with GH’s inability to show any kind of positive emotion (other than glee that REB was doing what he was doing) that he would become a conscious being………………………………….Nigel.

154. Crouching Tiger - October 12, 2008

Nigel 153

Well, as Elena said, GH certainly did/does have a much simpler, more enjoyable side to his being. The three of us had attended another staging of the play a week or two earlier (also outdoors) and, as it happened, that performance was accompanied by a fast-rising lightning storm…!

Most of the sensible people ran for their cars as the deluge descended, but being hardy student types who ‘enjoyed friction’ we huddled together gamely as the storm almost broke our umbrellas clean off in its violent fits and starts…

I guess it was part of the ‘heroic’ student posture – because we were the only ones still outside at one point(!) but at least this version was laced with some robust humour, much of which came from GH. We realised the silliness of our own action as the storm’s outbursts repeatedly scrubbed us clean… of the more artificial elements of that ‘good student act’.

I recall at one point, as the actors struggled on stage during what appeared to be another lull in the storm, the wind and rain kicked up again quite viciously. Rain was being driven horizontally across stage as ‘Juliet’ (for it was Romeo and Juliet) opened her mouth to speak some lines to her nanny. I can clearly see the picture of the wind driving her words back into her mouth even as she was speaking them – the sound never emerged, let alone reaching us three sitting by the edge of the stage!

But that was quite a fond memory of GH – when something bigger was happening than his preoccupation with his own earnest self-image… He could be good company then.

155. fofblogmoderator - October 12, 2008

149 is newly moderated

156. ton - October 12, 2008

157. nigel harris price - October 13, 2008

Some talk has been going around on the blog, from time to time, about the fact that REB may have a mental illness. I think someone mentioned something like ‘narcissistic disorder’ and gave examples of how that disorder manifests itself. I can see how, being a cult leader, there would be no need to have therapy of any kind and, in fact, the disorder would be exaggerated. The only therapy I feel would be beneficial to my bipolar would be Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT). The only reason I do not go in for it, is that I do not like ‘I’m-a-weirdo’ groups who just want to stay groups – I am, after all, mainly a human being who just happens to suffer from a mental disorder and needs help from time to time – be it social worker or my favourite psychiatrist at the Crisis Resolution Service. I would really welcome examples of what aspects of REB’s behaviour people think indicate a mental illness, since I have never been close to him for long periods of time (Ames, where are you?)…………………. Nigel.

158. simeon - October 13, 2008

When the mind is no longer seeking,
no longer breeding conflict
through its wants and cravings,
when it is silent with understanding,
only then can the immeasurable come into being.

J. Krishnamurti

159. nigel harris price - October 13, 2008

Hi Simeon (158)

I have not seen your name on the blog before. If the above is an example of what you are able to offer, I would say “Keep posting!”…..Nigel.

160. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 13, 2008

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Jiddu Krishnamurti

There is only one fundamental revolution. This revolution is not of idea; it is not based on any pattern of action. The revolution comes into being when the need for using another ceases. This transformation is not an abstraction, a thing to be wished for, but an actuality which can be experienced as we begin to understand the way of our relationship. This fundamental revolution may be called love; it is the only creative factor in bringing about transformation in ourselves and so in society.
Jiddu Krishnamurti

You must understand it, go into it, examine it, give your heart and your mind, with everything that you have, to find out a way of living differently. That depends on you, and not on someone else, because in this there is no teacher, no pupil; there is no leader; there is no guru; there is no Master, no Saviour. You yourself are the teacher and the pupil; you are the Master; you are the guru; you are the leader; you are everything.
Jiddu Krishnamurti

When you know the source of your problems and the causes of your problems, and when you know that their solution is within your own understanding, then you see that you need not follow anybody; then you have no guru, no authority, no book, no tradition, because you are a light unto yourself. These are not words. I am saying all this because it is so. But you cannot accept it because I say so, for then you become merely a follower, which is an evil thing to be, whether politically or religiously. Whereas, if you begin to understand yourself, to go into yourself profoundly, ­ which requires a great deal of attention, a great deal of devotion ­ then only will you be able to solve the many problems which confront each one of us.
Jiddu Krishnamurti

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Jiddu Krishnamurti

161. nigel harris price - October 13, 2008

160 Wouldnt You Like To Know (and I hope others are ‘tuning in’ to this and Simeon’s post)

Why did we have to wait so long to get these brilliant, and may I say, potentially life enhancing/changing quotes, and why have people not thought of posting Krishnamurti quotes before? I am going to the library to get some books out about this mystic on Wednesday (my next day off)…..Nigel.

162. elena - October 14, 2008

Unoanimo, Crouching Tiger, thank you for sharing. It is very easy to remember the good things about anyone after they die and since we are slowly dying to each other, that is, Girard and I, the good things remain. It’s when we talk and come back to life that the painful experiences and the frustrated love cries out and makes accounts of the many failures.

As time passes and I immerse myself in this old new life that I had left when I was fifteen years old, it continues to be clear to me that my relationship with Girard is no different than most people’s relationship to the Fellowship. On the outside everything works quite well, the superficial well being of a man and an instittution that apparently takes care of things and allows them to move fairly smoothly, makes it very difficult to point out and remember that behind the gold alchemy is the systematic deviation of a people who have committed themselves to a life of self deprivation with everything that comes with that in both the individuals and the group. The problem is that the self deprivation or what most followers understand as “sacrifices” that are being made for the sake of awakening is a dellusion and in reality members have filled themselves with “decorations” and overstatements to disguise the void that false sacrifices leads to. This is one of the most pitiful aspects of the condition of the Fellowship. There is nothing pretty about it, it is no joke and it fills me with shame to observe it. After so many years of living under those paradigms it feels like a sticky glue that I am desperate to disconnect myself from and the need to look at it and see it more clearly each time is just a step towards recovering something that it has not totally corrupted within my self.

It’s been so many years believing in the integrity of the Fellowship, Robert and Girard that it still fills me with shame to treat them like the vulgar criminals I also believe they are. The dissonance within myself is huge and the dance between the love and the deception threatens to tear me apart. One half of me wishes to stand for the integrity, the other wishes to run from the corruption. At some point it is clear that I cannot solve the contradictions of the Fellowship and the struggle is about recovering what I can of my own integrity.

The physical reality that I am moving into is so far away from you and the Fellowship it is difficult to connect. I am in the half house that is left of The House that my mother built and died in and my father simply pulled down the whole side in which we lived, that is my parent’s and our rooms and left the social areas as if dying were not enough to disappear.

We drove for fourteen hours from Bogota yesterday in one of the most spectacular drives I have had the pleasure to witness, from 2.600mts above the Andes down to the Magdalena River Valley and up again to Medellin. The greens of Colombia are so rich that there are blue, yellow and red greens, violet, pink and velvet greens. The varied forms of the vegetation is so exuberant that it makes one wonder how the eyes can encompass such different textures and forms in just one glance. The mountains run joyfully like bossoms of a woman whose majesty one simply guesses and does not attempt to device completely: The Andes runs all across Latin America but when it gets to Colombia it divides itself into three ranges with the Cauca and Magdalena Rivers running between them in a land in which white Indian Cebu grace peacefully while papayas, mangoes and guavas grow in the hands of the locals.

The second time I left this city I was around fifteen and since then it has trippled its size and income and now an overground (or underground in daylight) runs across the city. Medellin looks quite “chic” from a modern overground in which people with big brown eyes, combed wet hair and tight pants look as if they just came out of the shower in this holiday afternoon. I am one of them and as always before and everywhere we have nothing in common even though they are my brothers and sisters. I am nevertheless at home in this town and it feels good.

The blog seems to be dying and that is alright. Hopefully you’ll leave it functioning for years to come even if we only write once a month. The real problem with a nomad life is that everything dies too soon and the possibility of keeping something alive at my age is rather seductive.

Crouching Tiger: Presumably, what we all wish for – or enjoy the most when it acts through us – is the time when Strength and Will flow effortlessly into every corner of our bodies, conversing with other necessary characteristics like Justice, a sense of balance and that endless wellspring of consideration that can’t distinguish ‘others’ from our own simple self. Happy to give to both.

I guess it really is quite strange, this process… how the best of intentions can lead to hell!”

You nailed it down so well there. “…..how the best of intentions can lead to hell” It is that and only that what terrifies me about not checking on each other. We’ve paid too high a price when we trusted the Fellowship so much.

Unoanimo, the house has a back and a front like all other cosmoses, but as long as we don’t fill the lawn with cactus, we might still reach each other’s door. The love between us, all of us here, is gently longing for union without anyone having to give up him or herself. The flower that we are does not stop the roots to embrace each other beneath the ground. Our oneness is not corrupted by our individuality. The actualization of our connectedness is the purpose of both life and love. The yearning and the longing can stop when we “realize” the consciousness of that connectedness. Life is the poetry that actualizes such reality. It is happening all the time whether we will it or not but to consciously make it happen makes a huge difference.

163. whalerider - October 14, 2008

As the Sufis might say,

More wine!
Yes, push back
From the dinner table
Leave the mind behind
In the dust and decay
Of its endless calculations

Unhinge the door into the night
Make your tongue stumble
Out upon the cobblestones
Of fancy words and phrases
Then, step quietly…

Past the curtained windows
Of the sleeping villagers
Turn that last corner
And let your heart sprout wings!
Worship God only as your heart soars
Above the darkened rooftops
And spires of the cold stone churches

To see the light,
One must become the light.

164. nigel harris price - October 14, 2008

It has truly been a night of beautiful phrases…..Nigel.

165. unoanimo - October 14, 2008

Hello Nigel ~

Krishnamurti had a really tough time with the Theosophical Society’s adoption and their Christ-prophesy superimposed upon him; eventually he rounded them all up one beautiful day and publicly resigned, etc.

“Krishnamurti’s Notebook” is a great one to start with…

Maybe the Theosophists had something to do with his opinion concerning the ‘follower’ as being ‘evil’… Though, curiously enough, all through his long life he was followed and did plenty to attract those playful, peaceful and good footsteps from others. His resignation speech ought to be something to take a look at too.

166. aline - October 14, 2008

#162 Elena
“It’s been so many years believing in the integrity of the Fellowship, Robert and Girard that it still fills me with shame to treat them like the vulgar criminals I also believe they are. The dissonance within myself is huge and the dance between the love and the deception threatens to tear me apart. One half of me wishes to stand for the integrity, the other wishes to run from the corruption.”

Thanks for that.
I feel the same. Sometimes I am just surprised to consider now RB as an impostor after having considering him as a teacher and a friend for so many years.
That is also one of the reason, some ex students gave me to explain their position about not signing the petition.
They participate, so they can not throw the stone.
It makes me feel even worse.
At the same time when you begin to see, nothing can stop you, fortunately .

167. Draco - October 14, 2008

“There is an Eastern tale that speaks about a very rich magician (ROBERT) who had a great many sheep (HIS STUDENTS). But at the
same time this magician was very mean. (BECAUSE HE WANTED TO SPEND ALL THE TEACHING PAYMENTS ON HIMSELF) He did not want to hire shepherds (GIVE RESPONSIBILITY TO HIS STUDENTS) , nor did he want to erect a fence
about the pasture where the sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell
into ravines and so on, and above all, they ran away, (‘LEFT THE SCHOOL’) for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and
their skins, and this they did not like.

“At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them, first of all, that they
were immortal (IF THEY STAYED IN THE FELLOWSHIP) and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned (SKINNED=FLEECED OF MONEY); that on the contrary, it
would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master
who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place,
he suggested that if anything at all were going to happen to them, it was not going to happen just then, at any
rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further, the magician suggested to his
sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to some that they
were eagles, to some that they were men, to others that they were magicians.

“After this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again, but quietly
awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.

I’VE SENT MY INTERPRETATION TO ASAF AND I HOPE THAT ROBERT WILL USE IT IN THE NEXT MEETING.

168. arthur - October 14, 2008

I think it was Gurdjieff who said that 80% of all illnesses are psychological in orgin. Plutonic pressure, in other words.

Recently, I had the opportunity to sit with my illness and visit.
The thoughts that I had that are significant to this post are that my English surname is “water” connected. That I tried to relate this information to two people on GF.

Recently, I received from a person a description of that Plutonic pressure relating to my illness.

“You show, perhaps, the white sails of your boat above water; you really would like there to be peace, but you yourself are for the moment still in the hold of the ship, “UNDER WATER”, in the midst of emotions—deep underwater energies flood you. Possibly you don’t show anyone how deep it really is stuck. You don’t really see clearly, and you feel overwhelmed with sadness….definitely, if you keep living there, UNDER WATER.

Why don’t you allow yourself to be “born”? (womb water?) Why not sail ON the waters of life in unity with your upper sails, showing yourself, manifesting yourself in healthy pride regarding your “I”……”.

“I” am no longer a pirate in a sandbox digging for the open sea. My sails are set for Neptune.

A pirate for life

169. You-me-us-they - October 14, 2008

Hello Draco,
You wrote:

“After this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again, but quietly
awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.

Asaf will not use it ’cause there is an inaccuracy which makes the “absurdity” even bigger

They did ran away…

Could it be you (we) were not looking?
Never mind… Take it NOW:
Do we count more “innies” than outies”?

Is The Greater Fellowship gathering, at this point,
already equal to the one occuring this days, in the Fellowship of Friends
( being gracious to the search engine here!)?

170. jack - October 14, 2008

HI folks.
Hi Whalerider
is that your own?
very nice! whoever wrote it.
In relation to advertisements on the petition site…. found out they can be removed for ten bucks.
I will try to get it done this weekend.
To all those who signed so far….. thank you!
I must admit that in future ( call me small minded ) but those I consider to be my peers will be those who signed and that those who made specious excuses will be on my B list.
To me not signing is synonymous with condoning the events which have taken place and are taking place there.
Special thanks to you Elena and you can probably guess why.
The accompanying video is only for those who give a damn about what is actually going on behind the scenes.

http://walkndude.wordpress.com/2008/10/07/walkndude-%C2%BB-dueling-puppets-%C2%BB-planet-netopia/

Happy moon!
jx Bismilla al rahman al rachman.

171. Yesri Baba - October 14, 2008

“I feel the same. Sometimes I am just surprised to consider now RB as an impostor after having considering him as a teacher and a friend for so many years.
That is also one of the reason, some ex students gave me to explain their position about not signing the petition.”

Ohhhh, I thought it was because they are a bunch of castrated sheep-my bad.

172. lauralupa - October 14, 2008

The spring flowers, the autumn moon
Summer breeze, winter snow
If useless things do not clutter your mind
You have the best days of your life.

Mumon Ekai, 1228

173. arthur - October 14, 2008

Jack (170),

Elena found it strange that only her testamonial letter was signed.

Is it possible for the other authors to go back and sign?

174. jack - October 14, 2008

Hi Arthur
It gets back to the blank cheque thing.
Minor changes which dont affect the meaning can be made such as spelling errors.
But I will research it and get back to you.
Unfortunately it wont be before the weekend.
Then I have to wait for their response too.
I wish I could come to your place one day.
Ah well ” Insch Allah”
Btw my Arabic spelling probably blows.
Must crash now, so the best to you.
j x.

175. elena - October 14, 2008

Aline,

It is not difficult to understand that position amongst ex-members because they would have to accept the fact that they supported the Fellowship for so long knowing deep down what it was about and forgive themselves. Many people are not ready to forgive themselves and therefor are also not ready to assume fully the responsibility in which they were involved, we were involved. I certainly don´t think it is about blame, we are to a certain extent innocent of having been ever so stupid!! The question of blame or guilt or stupidity are alright for me to deal with. The sooner I acknowledge that there was all of that the sooner I can embrace myself cleanly. Not being able to reach a place of compassion for one´s own folly as much as one´s own greed seems equivalent in the psychological realm to falling and subsequently limping rather than trying to walk again.

It is interesting to observe that for Girard and other enablers it is impossible to understand what happened to many of us because they were in a position in which they do not see how much of themselves they had to give up to belong to the establishment. Their understanding is totally different. The psychology of the victims and the victimizers is eons apart. The fact that they remained active and were able to ACT to a certain extent, has compromised their being in a much greater way than those of us who mostly remained ignored in the outer circle. They cannot conceive that they harmed anyone because they justify themselves telling themselves that if you were being harmed no one was stopping you from leaving. It is interesting to me that I would not leave because I continued to believe in Robert´s authority against all aspects of elementary common sense.

The most difficult aspect has been trying to understand how the Stocholm Syndrome really works and I am far from really doing so but I know it is a huge issue. The pressure that I or we submitted to, convinced that it was justified while at the same time it mined our integrity so badly and the subsequent intense emotional dependence on those figures of authority, Girard, Robert, The Fellowship, Influence C, our own concept of the higher, and then nothing, nothing, nothing. This complete loss.

Screaming, throwing up and picketing might all help to rid us from the pain but the process of healing is one of reconstructing our connection with the world and our selves. I believe it is very much in “doing” and that is the next step for myself: finding enough peace “to do”. I have been “done” almost all my life! As My Fail Lady would put it: “Done in” but I don´t mean only that. I believe we are all victims of our time until we begin “to do”.

Arthur, more names simply give more credibility to the petition. When it is only one person it is easy to wonder whether it is a hero or a lunatic and the fact that we might know it is both does not help the petition itself. I certainly don´t consider myself a hero in the big sense of the word. The only hero I know is Marina´s brother who was stabbed fourteen times and the man trying to kill him gave up and said to the captain:”I cannot kill this man”. The captain took out a gun and shot him. Marina is the woman who worked for my grandmother over a period of thirty years and the person who just found a little house for me to stay in before I arrived. She lives down the road. Her grandson was killed five years ago by the guerrillas. They, she and her family do not cry. They have a great deal of humour and wonder, like Laura and others, why I´m so uptight! Hopefully I’ll learn to laugh when I learn to do.

This is a strange and fascinating world. So much unnecessary suffering everywhere. But so beautiful and interesting at the same time.

Jack, once I settle it should be possible to find a few more signatures. People are horrified when they hear the stories and definitely agree to the need of having the Fellowship investigated. Unfortunately I do not know many people.

I wish you all well.

176. unoanimo - October 15, 2008

Arthur ~

Neptune? So quick of a bee-line? Ok; still, I plan to stop off at all of Jupiter’s moons prior to your destination and then take a peek at that 450+ year old storm, DBA as ‘The eye of Jupiter’… I figure that ~ If there’s anywhere I can test these ‘lifetime’ guaranteed sails, it’s in that particular breeze… Arrrgh! And please pass the non-talking parrot.

177. Another Name - October 15, 2008

Thanks Whalerider, Aline, Arthur and all who I do not mention here….

The blog is becoming so beautiful, not too many words.

A light to my heart, when i find a moment to check in.

The other day I was pondering why I can not let go of the grieve and loss….

There was no answer…..just a deep breath down below in my belly and silence arose….

Thank you all.

178. Another Name - October 15, 2008

Hey Artur

In 51/207 You state: this blog has helped me to heal from the fellowship of friends…can you be more specific? How you did this what helped you the most?

I would like to close this fof door…go live somewhere else…..
No door opens neither a window
and I take myself with me….

179. Ellen - October 15, 2008

Another Name,

I’ve thought about you for awhile. Your posts often use the same words “healing”, “grief” and “loss”, but most of the time, you are not specific about what those words refer to – in your own experience – in your own life.

Do you grieve for your own lost innocence? Your naievite? The loss of your so-called friends? (And how many did you really lose? Did you gain any?) Your (passive) culpability? Your loss of power? (Is it gone?) Your life’s ambition? (And what was the dream that fuelled your commitment to the Fellowship?) Can you find it? Do you know what it was? In your own words? What is your loss? Can you put it on the table?

And did you lose self remembering? What do and did those words mean to you? Is the term now just a hollow shell covering an (FoF) cesspit of corruption? Just asking.

I’m not challening your feelings, but it may help you to articulate your loss here more definitively – not so much in terms of naming names – but of connecting feelings, thoughts and assumptions to actions – your own actions.

Wanna try? I’m listenin’…

180. aline - October 15, 2008

#175 Elena
“I believe it is very much in “doing” and that is the next step for myself: finding enough peace “to do”…….I believe we are all victims of our time until we begin “to do”.”

Elena,
I think you really hit the point.
this idea of “the play” formulated by the school is one of the worst and it has paralyzed people’s lives .
It has tetanized people to take the right options for their personal lives that one normally should have the common sense to take;
Just the fact to have an interest in something else than what the school offered, saved me several time, it was my last bastion against losing common sense.
To act, to do, to be in possession of one’s life is real freedom.

181. arthur - October 15, 2008

Unoanimo (176),

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about water. Pirates, parrots, gold, sand and sea.

I hope this isn’t offensive to the sensatives, but I remember reading in one of Rodney Collin’s books that the “quivering virgina” signals the incoming soul/spirit that its “home” is ready for another trip across the bounding seas of life with its swells, doldrums and hurricanes.

If it’s true that we sailors live more than one life then Neptune must be the god of the watery womb.

Charms to you

182. arthur - October 15, 2008

Sorry, that should be “quivering vagina” and not virgina.

A Viking forever.

183. Yesri Baba - October 15, 2008

Holy crap Diaper Boy! Talk about lying!
I haven’t been subjected to that much one dimensional drivvel since the last time Sarah Palin’s lips were moving. What- was your dad’s jizz made out of lemon juice and hate? I want to slash my wrists just thinking about you.

184. arthur - October 15, 2008

Yesri Baba (183),

Maybe that one dimensional lying Diaper Boy is a Pinocchio knocking on the pineal eye door?

Do you know him?

185. More history needed? - October 15, 2008

Gossip or truth?

Who will tell.

Heard that the third teacher (of this year) at the new charter school left. She was not informed regarding the fellowship and got a better job……?

Still people are leaving …..just somebody who was in the fellowship of friends for 35 years …..another 34 years, one from Tijuana…etc.

People are still leaving, maybe the blog has an effect?

186. You-me-us-they - October 15, 2008

Bingo Arthur!!!!!!!!!!

Collodi (the author) did not created the name of the Hero (and the Hero) without “intention”…

Pin-occhio
= Occhio pineale
= Pineal eye

187. dragon - October 15, 2008

At present the blog sounds forcefully, a place of creative and peaceful coexistence. Thank you All.

Enlightened
One day the Master announced that a young monk had reached an advanced state of enlightment. The news caused some stir. Some of the monks went to see the young monk. “We heard you are enlightened. Is that true?” they asked.

“It is,” he replied.

“And how do you feel?”

“As miserable as ever,” said the monk.

To sign the petition is the same process in my eyes!

188. arthur - October 15, 2008

You-me-us they (186),

“we were born before the wind
also younger than the sun
ere the bonnie boat was won as we sailed into the mystic
Hark, now hear the sailors cry
Smell the sea and feel the sky
Let your soul and spirit fly into the mystic

And when that fog horn blows I will be coming home
And when that fog horn blows I want to hear it
I don’t have to fear it
I want to rock your gypsy soul
Just like way back in the days of old
Then magificently we will float into the mystic
And when that fog horn blows you know I will be coming home
And when that fog horn whistle blows I got to hear it
I dont have to fear it
I want to rock your gypsy soul
Just like way back in the days of old
And together we will float into the mystic
Come on girl”.

Van Morrison

From the Seahags to me to you.

189. Yesri Baba - October 16, 2008

Hey Arthur

I don’t know about no pineal thingy, but if it gets him to stop writing crap I’m all for it.

190. Another Name - October 16, 2008

Dear Artur

Great song,

Dear Draco….woooh…still as miserable…

Dear Ellen

Thanks I am living the question…started to write, went to sit for a while in silence..

Listen to some music…..Better…

Maybe I am a people junkie?

Laughing?

Thanks though and will get back to you.

Yes the blog is…….awesome at this point….love it

Quiet waters, Artur not much wind…. just gently rocking in the boat and enjoying…

191. elena - October 16, 2008

A long hard day with my back still with a pulled muscle from wrestling with the dog, the car breaks down, the taxi driver hits not the road but when I get home there’s this little booth with internet and I´m happy to visit the Public Square rather than go straight home.

Nice effort to make things more definite Ellen, it does help to pinpoint the absurdity and look at it for what it is.

A big hug Aline, just for talking, it really does fill me with joy to know you hear and to hear you. Yes, doing is the issue but it is so difficult! Even in higher states it would be difficult to say I’ve “done”. Not that I’d like to establish a separation between them, that is the normal doing things even if somewhat great and beautiful and “doing”. One day, a long time ago, I realized that we cannot do mostly because we’d be tremendously dangerous if we could actually do. From that angle, descending octaves just happen precisely because there is no will in them but to do is the summit of creation. When a person can do, the whole world changes with just a movement of his or her hand. It is that beautiful. I’ve “done” once or twice during the first two years in the Fellowship but once or twice is worth a lifetime. We would be luckier if we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. At the same time, self remembering as conceived by the Fellowship is the bad water that turned into self consciousness rather than “conscious self.” I’m sure anyone who worked sincerely has experienced this things or something similar. Why deny ourselves from assuming responsibility also for so much beauty? In a way, spiritual exploration is a flirtation with other realms and the more one experiences other realms the clearer this realm becomes, the clearer that this realm is the spiritual realm worth living in par excellence.

I suppose all normal doing builds up the I anyway and it empowers and gives freeedom as you mention. That is very interesting because it seems to me that the problem with “normal” doing is that it goes into vanity-social club while “doing” would go into culture. There’s the great difference. How beautiful! And it allows us to look at the phenomenon in two different realms of being. Can you see it?

The other interesting possibility is separating one’s self from the doing and allowing one’s self to be done by what does. Objectifying the world so that it objectifiees the subject. In normal doing the subject is first force, in “doing” the subject becomes the objectivation of the object. This happens anyway, consciously or unconsciously: life is the weaver of human beings but for us it seems worth exploring and knowing so that life can help us heal more promptly from having lost so much sense of our selves by being so extremely disempowered in the Fellowship. That is exactly the word, it “disempowers” people so badly everyone becomes submissive. Not doing disempowers the person and once disempowered his, her I is replaced by the authority figure and the process of idolatry takes full force. This is wonderful! I don’t think we’d gotten this far before. The connection between doing and being is crucial. Great! Thank you Aline, thank you all.

How have you experienced these things?

Thanks More History for the information. More people leaving is always good news. The blog itself might not help too much but just the fact that there is a consistent stand against the Fellowship allows those suffering inside to slowly feel more comfortable to try to find a different solution. And who is not suffering inside? Every disempowered I is begging for freedom. FREEDOM, FREEDOM.

I wish you all well. Thank you for your company.

192. elena - October 16, 2008

…the clearer that this realm is the spiritual realm worth living in par excellence…. that is why I’m somewhat distrustful of higher states not reached through will, because they tend to bring fascination rather than enlightenment even though they deliciously fascinate. The I’s presence is what lights the transitions then there is no doubt and it is not that the world is all mighty but that the individual is one with the world. Never lose sight of your I my dearest L. I will try too. It is beautiful to feel this much love for you, for us all. It empowers.

193. walkndude - October 16, 2008

Hi everyone. Hi Elena.
Thanks for hits on the video. Most times I think no one cares.
Bye Elena.

Jim

WalKnDude
*nofear*

194. Ellen - October 16, 2008

Arthur – for you –

My Dad used to recite this poem to me as he put me to bed (both he and his father served in the US Navy). I’ve loved it ever since:

Sea Fever

I must go down to the seas again,
to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship
and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel’s kick and the wind’s song
and the white sail’s shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea’s face
and a grey dawn breaking.

I must go down to the seas again,
for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call
that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day
with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume,
and the sea-gulls crying.

I must go down to the seas again
to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull’s way and the whale’s way
where the wind’s like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn
from a laughing fellow rover,
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream
when the long trick’s over.

— John Masefield

195. aline - October 16, 2008

#191 Elena
“That is very interesting because it seems to me that the problem with “normal” doing is that it goes into vanity-social club while “doing” would go into culture. There’s the great difference.”

May be there are no differences between what you call “normal doing” and “doing”; may be the difference is how people use what they do, and for what purpose?
I don’t make this distinction for myself in between “normal doing” and “doing”.

when I was 14 years old, I wanted to be an architect: at that time my idea about it was very far from what I discovered later to be this job;
But the fact is that I always stuck to this choice : it gave me discipline and it was one companion following me consistantly all my life.
I practice this work not as a artist but as a craftsman who tries to approch things by the most practical side and who tries to do his best with what is asked and what has to be solved.

It has modeled my mind not only in this area but for all the rest of my life, trying to resolve things by the side where you can handle them.
This, for instance was a big help in the fof, to not follow unreachable aims, but to try to stick with reality and common sense. At the same time, the fof didn’t allow any intelligent expression in this area (Architecture)and I was always feeling that was completly wrong, because any discipline you pratice can be such a teacher!

It has also modeled my eyes, my way of looking, my way of approching things, evaluating and recognizing what is beautiful with a sense of honesty and not through the standard of others.
You are right, people can become part of the jet set, and actually many architects are in that; that is why I considered my self as a craftsman, I feel uncomfortable with many of them.

I don’t know if this answers a little bit to your question, but yes for me that is an example of the crucial relation between doing and being,
This has been stolen to many.

196. You-me-us-they - October 16, 2008

Hello Arthur (188)

I hear “something”…

Thank you.

Hello Aline,
You hear too, yes?
It is simply thrilling to “feel” you, this days…

197. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 16, 2008

For you Ellen:

I must go down to the C again,
to the lonely C in the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship
and a star to steer her by.

– – – – – –

A star’s mighty good company.
Thornton Wilder
Our Town

Who also wrote in that same graveyard scene:

Yes, now you know.
Now you know!
That’s what it was to be alive. To move about in a cloud of ignorance; to go up and down trampling on the feelings of those. . . of those about you. To spend and waste time as though you had a million years. To be always at the mercy of one self-centered passion, or another. Now you know that’s the happy existence you wanted to go back to.
Ignorance and blindness.

198. jack - October 16, 2008

This song by the Manic Street Preachers has at least one great line in it…….
“and if you tolerate this then your children will be next”.

and the kids in the video demonstrate how one has to be to remain in the fellowship.

jx

199. jack - October 16, 2008

It seems that the “hippies” have a new mantra …. dont be polarized man!
Here is an example of a reply to asking someone to sign.
“Hello Jack,
sorry man .. I was never that in that you where and now I am not that out. If I look at the world the fellowship is not such a bad place that we have to exterminate it. We can’t expect results from dividing the world in “good and bad ” , those “who signed and those who didn’t”.
Sorry man …not my thing

All the best ,________
and my reply.
“Hi ______
Yes its probably to do with personally experiencing how Burton works and the consequences of not going along with it eg having to leave ones friends and go out into a life where most of your friends had become alienated towards you, with a back broken in three places and your heart and dreams in more.
And then to find out through the blog that this happened to many more and is still happening.
Sometimes one has to be polarized from a good place within in order to stop evil from occurring
Should i just walk past if you are lying in the street getting kicked repeatedly in the head?
good luck
There is a song by the Manic Street Preachers which has the line ” and if you tolerate this then your children will be next”.
jack.

200. unoanimo - October 16, 2008

For You (All)… The ‘Rest’ of the Story
__________

It took me awhile to shake off the abandoned nests; a new tree dances like this.

Something subtle, the breath that lies inside the flute after its song has been heard…

That sort of knowing, that sort of resting and ease.

Then, there are the children who spin through me, swinging, wishing, pulling a few green acorns off so to have a piece of themselves to launch towards a goal…

And, when that remedy of desire falls over, it is done and the smile arrives; that ease again…

Not a sigh of relief, nor the dance of a mummification séance; no memorials, all is in the alignment before the aim, before the harvest, before the lost acorn’s sprouting someplace I-could-never-have-tossed-it-so-well…

Then she arrives: the same she, though now it’s 75 years later: I have two pair of initials, way up, on a branch most these days do not dare climb to: I have also grown, though not to hide lovers and certainly not altogether by choice… The Earth does things to me I cannot explain…

Though ‘She’, she has millions of initials and everyone can reach her and do not; this is a great mystery to me, possibly greater than that forest I came from and whose verticalness contributed to her cities and its inner winter warmth…

She’s trying to throw a rope over my broadest branch, the very same one where those initials I mentioned lay keloid; there’s already a rope around it there… I cannot figure this out (?)

Then it arrives, her weight and that sensation, I nearly forgot, yes, the last laughter in her throat as she launches herself into the air like an acorn and swings from me, swings and swings and swings.

The plank, excavated and having dangled from the end of its rope… Then, with another rope like itself, every end ties another beginning onto itself and with a little strength and East-West tugging, the contract is nearly done, the rest is left up to the knot to stay as knots do, bound to securing freedom for its two beginnings.

And the previous whereabouts of the swing’s second rope, who’d been holding it so balanced for nearly half a century for everyone else? Who ever said she could aim and throw better at twenty five than right now?

201. dragon - October 16, 2008

In the autumn the geese chatter their cheerful songs.
I like it very much and the geese as well.

But November 11 it is Martini and some people enjoy to eat the goose, it is called “Martinsgans”.

I like the vividness of the geese. My family loved the “Martinsgans”.
How to manage the conflict of interests?

Ten years ago I went to a farmer and borrowed a goose.

At home I let “her” in the back garden and the family arrived and they were thrilled by the animal.

Never again the “Martinsgans”-event occured. Nobody was able to slaughter “her”.
“She” died many years later by reason of age.

Imagine the goose is perhaps your friend, your child…….

HELLO VISITORon this blog it is only a little step to ask for an investigation, please SIGN THE PETITION (see the link “petition” above)

Just read the petition get some information and I am sure you will sign it even if you are not concerned.

It is simply a matter of: “I don’t know what exactely happened but it is really necessary to ask what happened in detail and why did it happen!”

It is the question of looking on the abuse of the description (= religion?”) of the packing FoF.

And it is (if yes, if FoF it is CULT) money (=tax-exempt donations) withdrawn from our societies!

Ceterum censeo….please, sign the petition!

202. fofblogmoderator - October 16, 2008

193 is newly moderated

203. elena - October 16, 2008

How very nice this is getting to be! What a pleasure to listen.

Thanks Aline, I agree with you completely. How lucky for you that you got into an art and architecture of all of them. It was different for me because I guess I wanted to know about death from the beginning and life or doing things wasn’t the aim. I wanted to understand so I began reading when I was about fourteen and stopped only in the last six months. Now my head is full of things and I’ve very little in my hands which is what I wish to start using.

It’s also beautiful how you describe what doing or interacting with the world gives you and I long to develop a lot of that in myself, what I’m trying to convey is very closely related to what you are saying. Yes, you did hear, wonderful. My question then would be, when all that world comes to you, when all the architecture, the knowledge and the beauty that you receive from experiencing that world, reaches you, have you experiened oneness with it and not just it? I think this is possible.

One of the reasons I still hold to the fourth way is that it is about life. I remember at some point realizing that the whole world of architecture and engineering belonged to the moving center and tasted the majesty of the moving center. It is not that there is no soul in the moving, instinctive, intellectual centers as the Fellowship taught and practiced severing so much from our being. My experiences were very short but intense and to incorporate the external world into ones being is the true magic. Culture as we know it has sprung from our selves so it is not really strange for us to reincorporate it into our being which is what seems to be what is really needed to recover the human dimension and not just the individual dimension.

It seems to me that what the process of self remembering-externally considering does is allow the individual to put together the whole of the human experience consciously. In certain states, the world outside is simply the reflection of the inner world that we have all projected. The “orphaned” individual of our times, that is me and most people I know, is such an orphan precisely because s/he is disconnected to the whole. Disconnectedness is the real illness and the horror of the Fellowship is that it systematically increased the disconnection.

“Doing” in that sense would then mean “reconnecting” but reconnecting to the human.

If we look at regular life, people connect through objects, money, but the human connection is so weak that a woman can die in an emergency room without anyone moving a finger. She did not have the money or the connections but it happens all the time in different ratios.

When I was a child and visited Europe I saw all the things but I couldn’t connect to the humans that had created them. Reconnecting to the humans that made it all possible is what can bring infinite happiness, infinite pride, infinite joy.

We might have to spend centuries just trying to feed each other again because the people that are starving are just the reflection of the starving humanity, of the starving human values.

On a brighter note, the most beautiful thing I learnt in the States, not in the Fellowship, is to practically treat all people as equals. I loved the servants here who were my mothers but I was unable to treat them as equals because I was systematically taught to separate from them when I was a child. By five I had learnt and a whole world closed to me. It is now open again. I thank you America!

I guess I deviated a lot from doing but it is all connected. My back is still in a lot of pain so I’ll quit for now. Thank you all for your posts.

Have a great day!

204. lauralupa - October 16, 2008

“If I look at the world the fellowship is not such a bad place that we have to exterminate it.”

I beg to differ…
I wanna stop the man eating machine!

205. dragon - October 17, 2008

The PETITION is one means to an end.

But do we [FoF-members having slight or severe misgiving, Ex-FoF-members, visitors on the blog] use every means at our disposal?

The blog is the place to take a point of view, to exchange ideas, feelings of friendship, humour…

Shouldn’t we start a BRAINSTORMING SESSION on the blog:

“WHAT ELSE can we do to stop or to reduce or to reorganize the current institution of the FoF?”

What is your highly esteemed opinion about this topic Elena?

PS: A link for you, I think you miss North America and your friends,
but you are here on the blog and they are with you.

206. dragon - October 17, 2008

Hi Elena,

please take this link, it more alive!

Best wishes
Dragon

207. aline - October 17, 2008

#203 Elena
“… when all that world comes to you, when all the architecture, the knowledge and the beauty that you receive from experiencing that world, reaches you, have you experiened oneness with it and not just it?”

Hello Elena,
There are enough obstacles to overcome in a project to gain a real sense of humility.
When a project ends, there is a sense of accomplishment, which is perhaps the only real miracle.
Miracles are explainable! This is not what we learned, no?

Extract understandings from what one practices, or at the opposite apply what one understands in his lectures to reality, I think that the two can lead, to find a human dimension to one’s life by very different roads.
Both are tricky.

208. dragon - October 17, 2008

Hopeless cases? If you don’t give up there will be….possibilities!

An example The Cybersite “DarkMarket”:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/10/darkmarket-post.html

209. elena - October 17, 2008

Dragon: “WHAT ELSE can we do to stop or to reduce or to reorganize the current institution of the FoF?”

Hi Dragon,
I don’t think there is anything else I can do to try to stop the Fellowship. If you or anyone else can think of something I’d be happy to help. It is obvious that the majority here and in the greater Fellowship don’t wish it to stop or not enough to take more serious measures. While I do not agree with them, I have nothing personal against them. I’ve given my fight and lost since it is still open but at least I’ve fought. Some people are only beginning to understand the areas in which it really harmed them so the timing is different for each one of us.

For those inside they at least know clearly enough now that some of us don’t agree with it and that it is alright to disagree which is a lot more than I had when I was inside.

Thanks for the links, I could not watch them on this computer but I will when I can.

Aline,

I much enjoy hearing you. The roads are as different as each one of us and that too is the magic. Words are not easy but I thank you for writing and for being patient with my clumsiness. Things might sound weird the first time we hear them but they become familiar after some repetitions.

It is a beautiful sunny day in this “city of eternal spring”.
Have a great day!

210. Opus 111 - October 17, 2008

Dragon 204

Although I am not Miss America or her friend, I watched the beginning of the link you provided in 204. Thanks. The nature pictures are beautiful. Unfortunate it is that they chose to give us Pachelbel canon as the background music, in a G. Winston syrupy arrangement to boot!

You may not know that, but Pachelbel’s canon was one of REB’s early obsessions. And you probably know well that when REB becomes obsessed with something, it is bad news for everyone else around. So Pachelbel’s canon has become symbolic of somewhat painful memories for many of us. No harm intended.

211. nigel harris price - October 17, 2008

208 elena

It is just that we have not worked enough at it and that there has not been the case in court with REB that the FOF has not reached its terminus. When REB has been shown to be what he REALLY is (in the world’s eyes) that the FOF will really be destroyed…..Nigel.

212. fofblogmoderator - October 17, 2008

204 is newly moderated

213. dragon - October 17, 2008

210. Opus 111

The landscapes and this kind of music appear together like a creation of a theatrical effect.

The nature pictures are beatutiful indeed.
J.S. Bach is by pure chance my favourite composer.

Pachelbel’s canon may create the impression of an undertow into a kind of helix or a spiral underground passage.
It depends on the person who is listening.

If this masterpiece of Bach results in obsession with R.E. Burton it is in my eyes a symbol for his misdirected mind.

The music of Bach opens a world rich in miraculous beauty, inner calm, recovery but it is also contemplation, flash of inspiration.

I really hope that one day J.S. Bach (and his Pachelbel canon) is no longer a cause and effect of painful memories for many of the FoF-members/Ex-members.

214. Opus 111 - October 17, 2008

Dragon #213

Not that it should matter very much, but Pachelbel’s canon was not written by JS Bach but by… Pachelbel (Johann as well).

I love music in general and JS Bach in particular, so I am with you there. I may have overstated my painful associations to this piece of music, but I have the same reactions with cameos, Meissen, Ming furniture, pastel-colored ties/socks, painted ceilings and many other things. Here is an entertaining video (shown here before) on the canon.

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM”

215. dragon - October 17, 2008

209. elena

“I’ve given my fight and lost since it is still open but at least I’ve fought.”

Elena, you and Arthur are both courageous persons. You gave the very best of your possibilities
The goal wasn’t to achieve “concrete, specific results” by getting “clear commitments”. You are only two people but you gave a SIGN for many FoF-members/Ex-FoF-members.

You ARE demonstrating: “Robert E. Burton I would like to adress you directly! You cannot evade forever!”

Thank you for your COURAGEOUS HONESTY!

216. elena - October 17, 2008

Dragon, thanks for reassuring us. Truth is I did want results. I wanted it closed. I didn’t realize how much support it really has. Even so, there are probably a hundred people who have helped members get out this last year and most of them by personal contact even more than the blog. A hundred? Two hundred? One person leaves and many follow.

The people here have probably helped me walk out more than they can imagine just by keeping me busy. I’m deeply grateful with all.

Strange turns this blog takes. Now we are virtual realities who never met but still hold a place in ourselves. Never met? Or met so deeply we don’t even have to meet personally?

I wish you all well.

!

217. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 18, 2008

elena wrote:

‘I’ve given my fight and lost since it is still open but at least I’ve fought.’

‘Open’ is a relative term. As far as systems are concerned, like software systems, for instance, (or systems of social order – even School Systems), ‘open’ may mean that almost everyone can contribute in a collaborative manner; consensus often being the model of operation and people respected for the value they can offer, in their unique ways, and all are enriched. So, in this sense, Fellowship of Friends (FoF), which historically has functioned as a dictatorship, is far from being ‘open.’ As time goes by, FoF demonstrates, more and more, that it is not open, much to its own peril.

(But I guess you could say that it still is open, and: ‘Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.’ Alexander Pope (English Poet, 1688-1744). Who also said: ‘To err is human, to forgive divine.’ and: ‘Know then thyself, presume not God to scan; The proper study of mankind is man.’)

Elena, you have not lost. You have fought nobly. That is a gain. You have shown them for what they are; openly. The invisible hand of fate works behind the scenes, yet shall your, and others’, prayers be answered.

‘I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.’
Ecclesiastes 9:11.

My interpretation:
I returned to myself (as in self-remembering), and saw under the sun (as under the light of higher consciousness, that shineth in the third eye), that the hand of god works in mysterious and invisible ways.

Ecclesiastes chapter 9 is labeled: ‘Despite wisdom, death is certain.’ And, in the end, all will get their just deserts. That chapter ends:

‘The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools. Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.’ Ecclesiastes 9:17, 18.

God bless you.

218. Another Name - October 18, 2008

Strange 85 people on the petition…..Can not believe it….

Are there so much invested interests?…like people who wheel and deal with the fellowship, who have financiel issues with students?

There are more then 800 people on the greater fellowship?

Maybe it is not wise to have the following attitude but:

I am rather alone then not honest to my own conscience?

Curious what this will bring up in you.

219. jack - October 18, 2008

Here is “scale and relativity”.
There are bigger fish….. bigger crimes.
Its from the man who tried Charles Manson.

http://www.clipmarks.com/clipmark/FA97AA61-691D-4338-8FD4-F872240B1F41/

Btw Wouldn*t you like to know.
Them’s some of my favourite quotes.
jx

220. dragon - October 18, 2008

210. + 214. Hello Opus 111,

in my eyes the intellectual stimulation through Rober E. Burton, the teacher, is really a cruel abuse in many different levels.

The worst case in my eyes is the internalized “switch off “ of a questioning mind:

What is the basis of this knowledge?

Why should I study without asking all questions that brush against my brain tissue or arise from it?

It is freezing in my heart when I realize this fraud. It is an abuse of human rights.
I am sure you noticed Philip G. Zimbardo’s link concerning cults ( http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studycult/study_zimbar.htm ).

Be sure nobody will be save from a seducer and this is the reason for the person calling in the desert again and again:

Ceterum censeo…. Please sign the petition!

Canon and Gigue in D for three violins and basso continuo:
Please click on: Urtext edition and afterwards sound:

http://icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer/Pachelbel.php

http://www.hoasm.org/VIB/Pachelbel.html

221. dragon - October 18, 2008

And: Thank you very much for your link Opus 111, charms to you!

what do you think about the great US-American composer Samuel Barber and esp:

222. dragon - October 18, 2008

And: Thank you very much for your link Opus 111, charms to you!

what do you think about the great US-American composer Samuel Barber and esp:

Cameos, Meissen, Ming furniture, pastel-colored ties/socks, painted ceilings a matter of taste, I don’t need anything in this, please excuse, “sequence”. Perhaps an inspiration for artists and a great handicraft (Meissen+Ming).
It sounds like a very special fixation. S. Freud will send his regards from heaven.
Please excuse I was cynical about this passion of the teacher.

223. dragon - October 18, 2008

219. jx

“scale and relativity”

We got this information in the news on TV a few days ago.

Thank you for the link!

There are bigger fishs, bigger crimes, sure:

But we shouldn’t understimate the power of the Web and the willpower to get all the information not only the manipulated snacks.

Evil is everyday on his way but every single person has the power to create a personal environment that shows everyone: there is a limit!

This question should be resolved or what do you imply with this…
It is a matter of every individual and every individual from age 9 – 99 is able to do it.

I am only a petite woman but I know fighting every day. It is tiring (on the one hand) because it is the opposite of my initial character but it also generates a calmness and the wish to live a coherent life.

224. jack - October 18, 2008

They say Ron Paul has delivered more than 4,OOO babies!
That says something in itself.
jx

225. ton - October 18, 2008

“The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status
is called into question?” — Ron Paul (from a recent e-letter)

Though not necessarily intended as a political endorsement, maybe as a post in this setting and context this applies more generally to how people are lead and controled by their own perceptions of those in positions of power. All may rise through the raising of awareness.

226. elena - October 18, 2008

Wouldn’t you like to know, Coming from you your words are precious to me and the quotations sound so much better out than in! Thanks deeply.

I realize now that one of the problems is that I’d like to be like My Fair Lady backwards! No wonder Robert loved that film (I do too but it is a disaster!) It pictures exactly everything I’m running away from.
This neighbourhood I’ve come to live in is so much more fun and uncomplicated. The lady next door brought me some beans the day after I arrived and made a cone of a newspaper page, told me to lie down and put it on my ear after lighting it up with a match. It burnt slowly and every now and then the flame would light up stronger as if something were coming out. She said it was the pain! The magic was good because the pain which was getting worse everyday is now getting better slowly!

Beautiful music Dragon, I should have internet soon and will watch all the good videos.

Jack, thanks also for posting that. It is so good to know these things can happen somewhere. If he were in Colombia he would have been shot before entering that hall. Thousands similar have been shot here.

I’ll study Colombia for the next five years, then start working.

It’s beautiful to be here, you must all come and visit. I promise I’ll spoil you! This is a beautiful country.

Have fun!

227. elena - October 18, 2008

P.D. Ton, all that is good information, I’m glad you’re still around. Gotta go, the dog is waiting for me outside!

228. dragon - October 18, 2008

226. Elena

Hi Elena we had dinner with Shiitake mushrooms and Basmati rice. The taste was also some kind of “magic”.

Do you know that’s an old Hopi ceremony (cleaning and calling for the spirits) to use Hopi ear-candles.
Perhaps it had spread out to Colombia.

I like to recommend the ear-candles for children having earache.
The inflammation causes over-pressure and the ear candle works like a pressure-relief valve it is called “Kamineffekt” in physics.

Children enjoy also the sound of the candle burning down…
An effective healing ceremony even if the child doesn’t tolarate other medicine like antibiotic.

Have fun with your dog!

PS by the way “fun” what about Shakira?

229. spoonful - October 18, 2008

I’ve kind of reached the conclusion that for many, the Fellowship of Friends is primarily what is says on the can. A social club where you pay money and make friends and enjoy fellowship. The ‘work’ being a communal tool to enable a group of quirky strangers to get along together.

With time, in various ways, many of us do ‘wake up’. But not the waking up the Teacher would have us believe. Then he would prefer we didn’t wake up at all – whether it’s the kind of waking up endorsed by him, or another one. Otherwise the funds would dry up! He needs you students to keep his coffers supplied. Hence the promise which is kept alive.

Of course, there are those who can no longer afford to pay, so they become superfluous and have to leave. Others do not fit the Fellowship profile. Trouble makers e.g. women who compete with the teacher for his precious male booty. So excuses are found for them to leave.

Then there are those who do wake up – and I talk now of the waking up that can see the illusion behind all the “Friendship”. As students are content to drink wine, discuss the ‘work’ and make friends, some get chosen by the Teacher for special tasks. They are allowed a glimpse of what is going on in the so called ‘inner circle’. “Close to the Fire”, I believe is a favoured term. Here students undergo tasks which have little to do with consciousness, but more to do with conscience. For that is the type of struggle it becomes and if conscience prevails, one leaves the Fellowship.

An optimist might say, “Hey, maybe that is the plan. To have a chance of waking up, you must first leave. The teacher is a hurdle in the way, who is doing everything to keep you from doing that. To keep you asleep”.

Then there’s the realist. ” Get real! Robert Burton is just your regular cult leader who likes fine food, expensive cars, luxurious accessories and sucking off boys. He’s created an environment to enable him to enjoy just that.”

Either way, most leave over time.

_________________

Question: I would be interested if anyone has any statistics regarding the number of students who have passed through the Fellowship over its duration. I would hazard a guess it’s many thousands. That way one could work out the likelihood one has of leaving – as a percentage – after an average number of years.

I’ve always found statistics to be useful in throwing a sobering light on events. For example, we’re never told that we’re statistically more likely to be murdered by a relative than a complete stranger. It doesn’t make good headlines! If we did know, perhaps we might keep a closer eye on our “friends”.

230. dragon - October 18, 2008

229. spoonful

A remakable conclusion.

It works in reality you can study it e.g. in a national Rabbit Breed Club and often in a party…

If you denote displeasure you will be off. If you are not “useful” you will be off. You even don’t want to take a glance at the garden path? You will be off!

For Robert E. Burton financial survival is the name of the game.
FOF = Financial Overflow Fable, an economic perpetuum mobile!

Most leave the FOF one day, correct but Robert E. Burton has the enormous shelter of the “shame” of his victims.

Please don’t be ashamed! Don’t be embarrassed about it.

At the age of 7 I puked on the school playground. Everybody was staring at me. I was dying of embarrassment.
What’s all the nonsense about? I am still alive!

231. More history needed? - October 18, 2008

Dear spoonful and other …regarding statistics?

The numbers I heard a few years ago:

Between 10- 20% stay in the fellowship and the rest leaves. That would make 11.000.-22.000 people?

Your statement about being murdered by a relative or friend is much more likely then being murder by a stranger. The same accounts for sexual and physical abuse. The numbers for abuse are around 95 % committed by relatives or friends or acquaintances….

Yes, keep a closer eye on our “friends”.

Do your own research

Ask 20 of your female friends if they ever have been abused by somebody and if they knew the person…..you will be surprised and shocked. Probably around 40-50%

Males? It is harder to get this information, probably round 20% or more. Especially, regarding sexual abuse. Often under peer pressure in the first 15 years of their life. ( older peers).

Watch your sons and daughters?
Watch your grand sons and grand daughters?

232. fofblogmoderator - October 18, 2008

#220 is newly moderated

233. spoonful - October 19, 2008

231. More history needed? – October 18, 2008

I am taking your advice and going in search of 20 female friends. Wish me luck and please don’t tell my wife. I’ll say it’s for research!

234. nigel harris price - October 19, 2008

Was down with my folks and my little brother on the south coast of Devon this weekend. We attended Haydn’s ‘The Creation’ at the local church – robust English baroque music. Also, my dad and step-mum had bought some duty free ‘cologne’ back from their Mediterranean trip – the gift?- Cavin Klein’s ‘BE’. Nice one…..Nigel

235. Another Name - October 19, 2008

Spoonful 231

Please…..what are you doing?
What is your need to joke about asking women how they are easy target in their early childhood, teenage hood, to be abused?

What is your need to joke?

I really do not understand, what is this about yoru wife? Have you ever asked your wife about here experiences with abuse in her childhood/ teenage age? Have you? Do you remember peer pressure as a young boy? Or have you put it aside or are you one of the boys who say to be: “Sex is not a big deal with Robert, if my son is ready to join the fellowship he can go into Robert’s bedroom”?

What are you trying to tell me and the others here?

Would you be willing to give me some more information on where you came from?

236. spoonful - October 19, 2008

235. Another Name – October 19, 2008

You are making a lot of assumptions! I simply found it humorous when “More History Needed” recommended me to ask 20 of my female friends. I only have two and the other is my mother!

A bit sad, I know. But everything on this Blog applies to me too. Please, try to lighten up a bit, or you’ll become old before your time.

*****

230. dragon – October 18, 2008

Yes, it would be a crumb of comfort if we were able to regard Robert Burton as a “pawn” within the arc of our eventual awakening. Though in truth he is closer to a queen.

237. nigel harris price - October 19, 2008

Am I correct in assuming Elena has gone to stay in her native Colombia? Is she coming back to Oregon House? Is she going to ‘fight’ in the lawsuit? So many questions!…..Nigel.

238. dragon - October 19, 2008

233. spoonful

If the fellowship was a social club for you and you had never experiences with any kind of abuse (physical, psycological, financial) it is OK.
You had a great time and one day you decided to leave.
I think there thousands of projects on earth worth for your sponsoring or you decided to do something else with minimum 10% of your income.

As a visitor on the blog and a person without FOF experience I could take your last two posts as a joke. You are probably teasing the regarding statistics, aren’t you ?

I think there are more stories and sobering experiences of the Ex- FOF- members and their families, it was no pink-coloured candy floss club.

It was an awful club and all the ESCAPEES are RELEASED like cave-dwelling animals that come into the light.

The air is fresh, the ordinary people are often more supporting than the other FOF-“friends”.

I can really feel, see, hear and smell a human being standing in front of me.
I had encounters with numerous and different people during my lifetime but there was never such an unusual, strange and at least
sad encounter than this one with a FOF-member.

Sad because this member is playing a certain role, Soul and body are not in harmony with each other.
Sad because this member suffers from his supression of “its” (please excuse) feelings.
Sad because this member realizes the seperation from the “ordinary” people and “it” is somewhat older and lonely like a harassed being fulfilling a “holy” task.
Some kind of a lonely warrior trying to recruit volunteers for the angels with his bookmark-weapons.
Always living in time limited bulkheads. There will be never the experience of entirety in a community of real friends….. and so on…

But the crux of the matter is all the released are also happy to live their ordinary lives again and they have the strong wish to forget all the ……..
A normal reaction…..

239. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - October 19, 2008

(FOSF) The Fellowship of Superficial Friendships

move on to experience

(EWF) The Entire World of Friendships

always your choice what experience you wish to have. MEOW

240. nigel harris price - October 19, 2008

239 wakeuplittlesuzywakeup

I have tried making contact with others (and old ‘friends’) through both the ‘blog’ and GF site. One thing I have found – not all ex-FOFfers have been willing to move on to a sense of ‘Wholeness of Self’ that is outside the realm of the contacts that were made in the FOF. Sometimes, there is the ‘thank God we have all escaped the FOF together’ ritualism, resulting in a ‘club outside a club’. At other times, the ‘just-having-been-released’ are starting on this ‘Selfhood Journey’. The necessary ‘Journey to Hell and Back’ (Dante?) is often not negotiated, leading to the superficiality being extended outside the FOF. I would like to hear thoughts from others!…..Nigel.

241. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - October 19, 2008

Nigel 240:

I have continued many of my friendships with a number of people I met in the Fellowship. I have to say, however, that since being released from the invisible walls, those friendships have grown exponentially. The fear-based hierarchal agenda, more rules, and limited lifestyle within the FOF does not allow friendships to truly grow out of that limited belief system.

Leaving the Fellowship doesn’t necessarily mean you will attract deeper friendships but expansion of ones ideas and beliefs allows greater possibilities of exploring deeper and more profound connections with people.

242. spoonful - October 19, 2008

238. dragon – October 19, 2008

“If the fellowship was a social club for you and you had never experiences with any kind of abuse (physical, psycological, financial) it is OK.”

Errr… not quite. I did have four or so years of hard clubbing which had its moments – undoubtedly facilitated by the ready access to copious amounts of wine.
Then one evening I was invited by the teacher for dinner. Once more the wine flowed and the rest is history. (That’s a euphemism in case you were in any doubt.)

Incidentally, some of the most serious people I know are comedians! It’s how they get through life – or don’t!

243. elena - October 19, 2008

Nigel,

You’re correct in assuming all that! There is no lawsuit love, none that I know of. Neither you nor I have the money or the damages! We were already crazy before we joined!!! So no lawyer would take us!! I’d much rather people think me a lunatic than follow me blindly!

Forget the lawsuits, we would need to change the American Constitution first! I’ve done what I can love, let those who can, do the rest.

Does it matter that much Nigel? We can still make up a thousand better excuses to communicate! Sometimes you write beautifully, think beautifully. It’s great!

Arthur where are you? I miss you! The Saint John’s Wort must be doing wonders or perhaps it’s this neighbourhood where a man came by to fix the pressure cooker in the morning and the next door lady’s brother in law came to fix the T.V. I’ve never been anywhere more efficient! Nothing worked after years of movements and storages except my grandmother’s thirty five year old refrigerator and my godfather’s twenty five year old car!

And this afternoon Sun is lighter than love
it hits the mountains which rise a hundred meters above
with a softness and a sharpness that delineates every tree into being.

I must be forgetting my english already because I don’t perceive Spoonful that much off. Of course, if I think of it then yes, you’re way off because you make so much light of the fact that it is just a social club where people even have fun that it sounds legitimate but the truth is that that is how most people perceive it Dragon and they think it’s O.k. The other day you mentioned the damages to the mind that come from extended practices of cult behaviour. It would be wonderful if you could expand more on that. I’m at least clear about the damages, but unfortunately in some societies it is becoming normal to be abnormal. In mine for example, a nine year old was telling me yesterday about how the man five houses down from ours was killed a few weeks ago because he worked in the Community Action. “Nine shots and one in his forhead” she showed me ” he probably had many enemies” she concluded and continued roller skating down the road!

A friend asked me why I’m here and what this means for the coming year. People, being with people who can say good morning and get concerned because my dog just run down the road with ten others after a female in heat and stayed out all night but came back this morning and bring and take beans and cookies and work hard every day without loosing the sense of being human enough to care. The loneliness of rich neighbourhoods where my family lives is abhorrent, I never wish to be there again. It reminds me of the horror of the Fellowship that only pretends to be human for the Sunday brunch. The rest of the week everyone can humanly starve! Life can be so much more loving.

This morning they gave mass fifty feet outside my door. Since the people don’t go to Church the priest comes to the neighbourhoods and sets up the mass anywhere outside with about fifty attendants. They ended up singing happy birthday to the priest.
I thought I wasn’t missing anything from the Fellowship but nobody cares if I don’t attend and in the meantime I much respect the inner sense of the sacred that they hold. There’s still essence in it even if it is manipulated so that we keep bearing the social conditions without protesting. But anyone in this neighbourhood is a thousand times healthier than I am, I’ve just come to recover a practice of being human and the theory that we’re all going to go crazy if we don’t start mixing makes even more sense seing it in practice.

Dragon, how would you do the magic with a candle? I thought the cone from the newspaper made it happen and one actually feels it pulling something out but where would you put the candle and how would it suck?

Spoonful, without contradicting anyone else, it’s good to hear you and it does not matter to me that you’re not outraged. A few of us can be outraged for all of us! Or maybe some of us have just overcome that phase!

Laura, I’m starving without your reality sandwiches and music, I take every word back!!! If you can give them back now!!! But if you’ve gone flying have a great trip!

And Ellen, I never really had a chance to talk with you and I would like that! Now that you’ve written a little I can hear some of where you’re exploring and would love to share in the exploration if you still have the energy to bring some of it up.

Much love to the few still lingering in this river of possibilities!

Am I correct in assuming Elena has gone to stay in her native Colombia? Is she coming back to Oregon House? Is she going to ‘fight’ in the lawsuit? So many questions!…..Nigel.

244. spoonful - October 20, 2008

243. elena – October 19, 2008

“Spoonful, without contradicting anyone else, it’s good to hear you and it does not matter to me that you’re not outraged. A few of us can be outraged for all of us! Or maybe some of us have just overcome that phase!”

To illustrate my point. Take the Greater Fellowship (Social Network). This is what I would call a social club. How many members does it have? A few hundred ex FOF members?

Now we also have the Fellowship petition. How many signatures does it have? 85 on last count.

Now we must ask why is there such a gap.

1) Are most GF members unaware of the petition?
2) Are most GF members ignorant about Robert Burton’s misdemeanours?
3) Are most GF members giving him the benefit of the doubt?
4) Are most GF members indifferent?
5) Are most GF members happy to brush it under the carpet?
6) Are most GF members only willing to take the attitude “it didn’t happen to me?”
7) Are most GF member too afraid to commit? To have their name posted for all to see?
8) Are most GF members not willing to face the truth and let the conscience decide?

Only 85 ex-members willing to voice their concerns. This outrages me! For this reason the GF has all the hallmarks of a social club mentality – content to talk and and not to commit.

If you were Robert Burton which would you prefer? The pleasant and safe exchanges found on the GF? Or the the hard and uncomfortable truths of the Blog?

Anyway, I think one can be outraged and still maintain a sense of humour about certain aspects (not everything). I know I have to for my own sanity.

245. spoonful - October 20, 2008

I just discovered smiley face. One for each petition signature:

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

246. Across the River - October 20, 2008

spoonful and all,

I wonder if a petition addressed directly to Robert, the FOF council and officials, and all current members would find the same resistance. In fact, with the tipping point more and more evident I’ve been thinking…..

My guess why it’s going so slowly is that primarily there’s fear behind inviting intervention from the big guns upon the heads of those still “in” and belief that they’ll work it out in their own time. There’s also a very long tradition of passivity in terms of owning the problem.

247. Crouching Tiger - October 20, 2008

Nigel 240.

Yes I think that you’re right to make these (uneasy) statements. I left last year from a Centre around the same time as many others, and the first instinct was very much to maintain a ‘club-outside-the-club’. When I went to gatherings of ex-fofers and some current ones, there were a lot of the same ‘rules’ still in evidence… little practices and customs from the fellowship. It’s a magnetic attraction, and I was frequently surprised just how much of myself went back to acting in that ‘old’ way at these gatherings. Difficult to shake.

My feeling is that, at some point, it is necessary to make a ‘clean break’, even from people you know and like, in order to discover your own turf again. Maybe you will come back to them later – if they are true friends -, maybe not… but the risk has to be taken to find what you are and what you mean outside the school limits.

I feel that you’re description of the journey is right – you need to go down in order to go up again – but it is a painful process. At least it has been painful for me over the last year or so….

Where in Wales do you live?

248. nigel harris price - October 20, 2008

247 Crouching Tiger

Great to find someone has trodden the same Path to Selfhood. I did have invitations from the London GF to go to their monthly meetings but have actually not had much time (I teach two jewellery sessions on a Saturday and the meetings are on a Saturday evening). I am also afraid of that ‘glad to see you back after all this time’ theme that might occur. The thing I think most ex-FOFfers will find over time, if they still tread the Path of Wisdom (self-understanding especially) is that a New Being will emerge. And that thing about rules – I don’t apply any to myself – I smoke again now and have not worn a suit for at least a year. I try to apply common sense and conscience to my actions – something that was missing when I was in the FOF and my moods swinging wildly.

By the way, I live in Devon, in the ‘foot’ of England, although I come from a Welsh family. Keep communicating – I feel something solid emerging…..Nigel.

249. nigel harris price - October 20, 2008

246 Across the River

Now that Elena is no longer a pioneering spirit in the motion to see the FOF brought to ‘legal consequences’, I feel we must all put pressure on, wherever and whenever we can, to see the petition brought to its fulfilment. I have no fear, personally, about writing to Ford Greene, to give evidence (and Ryan McCarthy has asked for my version of ‘the story’, even requesting my telephone number in case he needs to contact me). You would be surprised how efforts ‘with perseverance and a sincere heart’ will win over time. You may remember my saying that it had taken 14 years from coming back to the UK to climb back to stability with self-confidence and the ability to re-connect with my precious metal work. Work and best wishes to you all…..Nigel.

250. dragon - October 20, 2008

242. Spoonful

“Incidentally, some of the most serious people I know are comedians!”

First I must say I have the impression that many FOF-members have difficulties to laugh (the sort of humour seems to be unimportant).

I imagine that your way of humour could be in touch with my favourite author to overcome every kind of please excuse “shit”.

It is Samuel Beckett and his quotes are sometimes the best
“Irish Zen”.
Better than Irish Wiskey or even more better his quotes AND Irish Wiskey:

Estragon: (aphoristic for once). We are all born mad. Some remain so.

Pozzo: I woke up one fine day as blind as Fortune. (Pause.) Sometimes I wonder if I’m not still ASLEEP.

Pozzo: The blind have no notion of time. The things of time are hidden from them too.

244. spoonful

“Only 85 ex-members willing to voice their concerns. This outrages me! For this reason the GF has all the hallmarks of a social club mentality – content to talk and and not to commit.”
______________________________

We should try to mobilize everything what is thinkable.
(But not on the blog, private per e-mail etc. –> the persons that are free and able to enable, we should try to connect with each other)

244. spoonful

“If you were Robert Burton which would you prefer? The pleasant and safe exchanges found on the GF? Or the the hard and uncomfortable truths of the Blog?”

____________________________________

If I were Robert E. Burton i would give me the opportunity to work in a great garden only listening to the voices of the birds and the other animals, i would give me the opportunity to sow potatos or rice and i would learn to appreciate this daily work.

The end of useless luxury and the end of getting money for
lessons that are taken and knocked together from Buddha, Jesus, Shakespeare, Rumi?…..Isis?….a sophisticated “Sufism”….conceived from Isis-Akasha…born in a paradise-like landscape in california.

No punishment, only an investigation and if yes: No religion! CULT!
The end of tax-exemption! The possibility to work!
The possibility to watch wether there are club-members willing to give their money to this rest-institution.

If the investigation identifies sexual abuse of children and young persons: Closure of the Fellowship of Friends and back payment of the tax abatement as far as possible.

Compensation (if at all possible) for the victims. There are victims and they are still suffering and money is no real “compensation” for this abuse.

There are 85 signatures but 11 000. – 22 000. people that passed through the institution.

But it isn’t the number: Only one sexual abuse is….WHAT?

251. dragon - October 20, 2008

Whiskey, oh God!

252. veramente - October 20, 2008

244 Spoonful
To illustrate my point. Take the Greater Fellowship (Social Network). This is what I would call a social club. How many members does it have? A few hundred ex FOF members?

Now we also have the Fellowship petition. How many signatures does it have? 85 on last count.

Now we must ask why is there such a gap.

1) Are most GF members unaware of the petition?
2) Are most GF members ignorant about Robert Burton’s misdemeanours?
3) Are most GF members giving him the benefit of the doubt?
4) Are most GF members indifferent?
5) Are most GF members happy to brush it under the carpet?
6) Are most GF members only willing to take the attitude “it didn’t happen to me?”
7) Are most GF member too afraid to commit? To have their name posted for all to see?
Are most GF members not willing to face the truth and let the conscience decide?

Only 85 ex-members willing to voice their concerns. This outrages me! For this reason the GF has all the hallmarks of a social club mentality – content to talk and and not to commit.
———————————————
I share the same feelings about the GF. Yet it provided me the opportunity to reconnect with some people I am happy to talk to.
But I am disgusted and am feeling angry at the seemingly general complacent attitude.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, perhaps most of the GF people are unaware of the opportunity to do a small-big thing by signing.

But GOD, I cannot wait to see this cult done with. In the meantime I hope Burton is not planning to escape in great luxury and with comforts where he can keep fucking innocents and consenting morons.
I call the latter morons because if they have not figured out the truth of their spiritual teacher with all the information about RB available these days, well…it’s absurd.

Nigel, do you have Ryan McCarthy’s email?

253. lauralupa - October 20, 2008

veramente, spoonful,

I share your surprise and disappointment. After over one year of exposing all sorts of FOF abuses on the blog, only 85 of us are willing to sign a petition against it?

I really don’t like to know that Robert Burton is free to go about his dirty business as usual, waiting for the next opportunity to prey on innocent seekers…

Dear Elena, right now i am very busy at work and suffering from blogger burn out, but I never stop listening to music.
Knowing that you miss them, I’ll keep the songs coming…

254. lauralupa - October 20, 2008

… here’s one from Sigur Ros, an Icelandic group that’s very dear to my heart

beauty is in the eye of the beholder

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sWiJWLiSKro

255. dragon - October 20, 2008

254. lauralupa

you are busy at work and nevertheless you have given to us this remarkable and beautiful video, thanks……….

And thanks again for Reality Sandwich:

A found object:
“A Bodhisattva is averse to causes; an ordinary person to results.” — Chinese Buddhist saying

Ciao Cara!

256. dragon - October 20, 2008

252. veramente

love your quote written with passion:

“But I am disgusted and am feeling angry at the seemingly general complacent attitude.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, perhaps most of the GF people are unaware of the opportunity to do a small-big thing by signing.”

___________________________________________________________________

Signing the petition is also often a sign for persons living in absolutely inner freedom.

For some people it is frigthening to recognize their own positive possibilities, their power to PREVENT!

257. aline - October 20, 2008

The one who ignores the petition as if he has the choice, kills a second time those who suffered from the abuses of the school.
May be this is the point, people believe they have the choice.
When one asks oneself “to be or not to be”, is it really a choice?

258. brucelevy - October 20, 2008

257. aline

Unfortunately (for the world), most people who flow through the FOF, and in fact the world in general, have been, are and will forever be “followers”. Signing the petition implies a certain degree of both introspection, conscience, individuality, descrimination, empathy and balls. To expect are larger number of signers is just naive. But if the aim is to have them investigated, perhaps after a few more weeks, it’s time to send it on it’s way. The signatures are, of course significant and desirable, but the letters and implications carry more weight (I hope). When I was “in” most of the people were pussies anyway. People who I wouldn’t expect to really give a shit about what was happening or to whom it was happening. It’s unfortunate, but true. It’s what RB counts on…the obedience and fear of the sheep.

259. elena - October 20, 2008

Spoonful, ladies!

A yes could be given as an answer to almost all the questions you pose.

1) Are most GF members unaware of the petition?
Many haven’t wanted to hear about it, they think it is a violent solution.

2) Are most GF members ignorant about Robert Burton’s misdemeanours?

Many still think the only problem is the sexuality and think most other people can get away if they really want. Many do not conceive that they are still under strong influence in their thinking as much as their behaviour.

3) Are most GF members giving him the benefit of the doubt? Yes, too much benefit.

4) Are most GF members indifferent?
Many are hoping nobody knows about it, they want to hide, they don’t want their names to go public. This is the biggest issue.

5) Are most GF members happy to brush it under the carpet?
Many are just afraid of having been involved and continuing to be involved.

6) Are most GF members only willing to take the attitude “it didn’t happen to me?”
Indeed.

7) Are most GF member too afraid to commit? To have their name posted for all to see?
Are most GF members not willing to face the truth and let the conscience decide?

You’ve said it!

But there are also many that want to do things their own way and are not doing any harm or trying to avoid responsibility. Ours is not a black and white situation. Many years, many lives and not enough support, real support from anywhere. I’m hopeful that those that can still help are helping and those that want help are finding it.

Laura, Dragon, Veramente, it seems outrageous but very few people have followed the deep issues presented on the blog deeply enough. Seventy, eighty five at the most? Many left it from the very beginning. Blogs are too popular for the upper, upper.

The Club, the positions, the established hierarchies of who can say what and when all matter.

Somehow this does not surprise me or outrages me anymore. It is a reflection of what happened on the blog as well. Hundreds of people peeping in without ever offering anything but judgement.
They would have destroyed much more if they had been able to but a lot of what matters managed to get through. They can’t kill it now.

Thanks for the music Laura, I wish you a soon recovery! You’re much appreciated around here!

260. elena - October 20, 2008

Jack, there might be other things worth adding to the petition letter, minor ones from one angle but significant for the law.

Is that still possible? Or have we run out of the lawyer and it’s too late?

As I said, they are minor things so it’s O.K. if it’s late.

261. dragon - October 20, 2008

260. Elena

let us do a new “underdog-stuff” on the blog. IF WE ARE THE FEW signing ordinary “OUTLAWS” here on the blog, why not?

The blog ought to be able to advance the baby (investigation) and perhaps other possibilities (more letters, implications above-mentioned brucelevy: I am glad to read you again, I missed your “hearty stew”-style-language.

Really poor people are often so much better than the established hierarchies. They know fear, dirty work, poverty, hunger, pinching and they see things clearly because they endure the mess every day.

The whole world/planet is changing nowadays.

Dear middle and upper class: There is NO PLACE to evade the sad, ugly, poor, dirty reality on this planet.
But you will have the chance to face the problems right now.
We are not expecting the big big salvation just tiny things every day step by step like signing this petition.

Please excuse me I am speaking just as Lucy van Pelt!

262. jack - October 20, 2008

Hi Elena
It cant be altered in any way that affects the meaning or content.
Which is to ensure that those who have signed have agreed to what they were signing up front.
However a few others have mentioned being in possession of “useful” information if it should be required.
Perhaps we might find a use for it somewhere down the line.
In which case the lawyer can be engaged as and when…. I get the feeling he takes a personal interest in the case.
I am waiting for some form changes to be made ie a bigger gap between the petition proper and the accompanying letters and bigger headings on both.
Plus the strange symbols and punctuation which I’ve been told of but cant see personally as when I go in it looks fine.
At some point I will go in on another computer with windows instead of my Mac and see if it looks any different.
Also plan to remove the advertising when time becomes available to get to my bank.
I agree that giving it a few weeks and then getting a consensus seems like a good idea, there are some friends and family members I plan to ask to sign as it affected them indirectly and directly in some cases.
One of the biggest regrets I have is having been affected by the attitudes which prevailed in the fellowship and having allowed them to govern my relationships with others.
There is a huge unseen amount of suffering caused in this way.
I can only speak for my own situation, which worked out like… its ok to misuse others as long as its for the sake of consciousness.
Please excuse me for not being able to express this better, it hasn’t ripened properly yet.
If you feel like dropping me a line on my e-mail address to let me know more please do.
regards to you and everyone else.
jx

263. nigel harris price - October 20, 2008

252 veramente

Ryan McCarthy’s email is rmmcarthy@appealdemocrat.com. Also, you may like me to reiterate that Mr Ford Greene can be contacted at HUB LAW OFFICES, 711 Sir Francis Drake Boulevard, San Anselmo, CA 94960. There is the old German WWII tactic – ‘Blitzkreig und Stuka’. I WILL, will you?…..Nigel.

264. wildz - October 21, 2008

I just had a thought about why ex-members are not signing. It is because the “public” will know that they were once a part of this group. I have signed, and I also make most of my income from the internet. I want the world to know that I was taken by this group; emotionally, economically, psychically.

265. unoanimo - October 21, 2008

Hello Jack ~

Will the names (signatures) of those who submitted their stories be added to the petition viewing? I thought that was the plan? There are 76 signatures (if you do not count the ‘voids’)… An ‘odd’ number to be at… How many do we need before you send it on its way? An advertisement in the local newspapers for signatures?

There’s a video on the GF where a guy was giving ‘Free Hugs’: the police came in and cited him, he rounded up 10,000 signatures supporting his cause and was then allowed by the city to continue his ‘profession’. Wow, free hugs! It’s an amazing video and this blog is amazing too; part 52!

It occurred to me today that the troll is pissed off because no one is interested in him and only want to cross the bridge, which it actually his roof… Another possible children’s story Laura…

A scene flashed across the other night: a group settlement for the ownership of the property in Oregon House, the re-establishing of the 365 acres as a hospice and retreat for the needy souls of this world… Grants from the state of California to make it into a job producing industry for the surrounding communities and the needy souls of this world…

Our fingerprints are all over that place, glowing at night, glowing… Lifting up as fireflies and flying where?

266. veramente - October 21, 2008

263
Thank you Nigel!

———————————————————
On a different subject:
do you want to know what’s the new buffer for some of the former members?
LOVE, an all encompassing love where you end up feeling nothing but you get to hold the great illusion of Love.
Life is perfect even though I am drowing in shit, but in my head I feel great.
The power of Love.

267. James Mclemore - October 21, 2008

265. unoanimo

“the re-establishing of the 365 acres as a hospice and retreat for the needy souls of this world…”

That is a really nice picture. And it is a beautiful idea that those, for us at the time, well intentioned ‘glowing fingerprints’ would finally be resolved into something beneficial for others.

268. nigel harris price - October 21, 2008

263

Sorry – rmccarthy@appealdemocrat.com – two ‘c’s, not two ‘m’s…..Nigel. And wasn’t the FOF supposed to be a School of L-u-u-r-r-v?

269. elena - October 21, 2008

Jack: “One of the biggest regrets I have is having been affected by the attitudes which prevailed in the fellowship and having allowed them to govern my relationships with others.
There is a huge unseen amount of suffering caused in this way.
I can only speak for my own situation, which worked out like… its ok to misuse others as long as its for the sake of consciousness.”

That’s an amazing statement, a recovery of consciousness, thank you for acknowledging it Jack. Once consciousness lights up such dark areas it is much easier to deal with them or to live with one’s self more compassionately.

“its ok to misuse others as long as its for the sake of consciousness”
That is the Fellowship’s motto. It should appear wherever “The Fellowship of Friends” appears. When I next go picketing, that’ll be a good poster. It is what it teaches and practices. It would at least be honest if it said: “It’s ok to misuse others as long as it’s for the sake of unconsciousness” then people would be less deceived about what they are really getting into: hell in angels clothing.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p8C8AVWLhwI

A friend just sent me this video and it looked like a gift for you Laura so here it is! Please enjoy! They are magical healing pills like the ones you often give!

It’s three in the morning! I had some tea last night and my body thinks it’s three in the afternoon!

Dragon, Seems like such a delicate question this one about poor-rich people. what makes me uncomfortable is the presumption that we are better if we have a little more money and few people with money don’t have that presumption. So much of the Fellowship was founded on those premises. The more money you had the closer to consciousness you got but that was possible because it was already in the background of most of our programmings.

Then I find great comfort in the fact that people without surplus money offer what they have without pretense. With the others it is often like “Look what I’ve got, it’s so beautiful, please don’t touch” and then they or we when we are in that phase, replace ourselves with our belongings and disappear! There are of course exceptions everywhere: rich people with noble values, poor people with criminal standards but the rule is quite the opposite. And then there is the magic that when one is one’s self beautiful in no matter who’s company, everyone turns kind so the detachment from the many separations would make a difference.

Veramente, one of strangest excuses I’ve heard to not sign the petition is that we were there for so long it doesn’t make sense to condemn it now. It’s a similar reasoning to: Since it poisoned us so badly it might as well poison every one else. The “love” excuse does seem like a buffer in perfect line with Fellowship brainwashing! Most of the people raising that banner probably left because it was getting too much for their pocket and never considered anything else but the “joyous club”. We do go through embarrasing phases!

So good to see you all in this river of possibilities!

270. spoonful - October 21, 2008

“And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things. (3 Nephi 11:37)”

What is sexual grooming?

The deliberate actions taken by an adult to form a trusting relationship with a child, with the intent of later having sexual contact is known as child grooming. The act of grooming a child sexually may include activities that are legal in and of themselves, but later lead to sexual contact. Typically, this is done to gain the child’s trust as well as the trust of those responsible for the child’s wellbeing. Furthermore, research has shown children are less likely to report a crime if it involves someone that he or she knows, trusts, and cares about. Additionally, a trusting relationship with the family means the child’s parents will be less likely to believe any potential accusations.
(from Wikipedia)

Child = neophyte / young boy
Family = Fellowship of Friends
Child’s parents = members of the Fellowship of Friends

******

It is now overwhelmingly evident that sexual grooming has been and continues to be a major activity in Robert Burton’s role as self proclaimed “spiritual” leader. To achieve his ends, he is unashamedly prepared to draw on higher and often ambiguous truths into which he claims to have a unique insight. This is done primarily with the aim to form that initial trusting relationship with his prize, by placing himself in a position of authority / power.

As the definition above explains, if such behaviour takes place within the ‘trust’ of a family – a group, it seems all the less likely that such a repugnant activity could be happening right under the other member’s noses.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Fellowship members are condoning this behaviour in their ‘teacher’. The next question is how would you react if it was your child – boy or girl – who was being groomed by an elderly relative for a sexual act?

I can only assume few members / ex-members have seriously given it much thought – at least judging by the numbers of signatures of the petition.

271. jack - October 21, 2008

Hi Uno
Not sure wether you mean their names added to their letters or their signatures added to the signature list. If its the latter then we can ask those who sent letters to also sign if they haven’t already.
If its the former then it is a little more problematic.
But once I have crossed the technicians palms with silver then it will become apparent one way or another.

In relation to the idea of the acreage being turned into a transformative place for all comers its a wonderful idea and I’m sure it resonates with many or even materializes a feeling held by many of us.
When we were building the rose garden the feelings at the time were that we were creating something to bestow upon all those who would come in the years after.
Does it still exist?
jx

272. jack - October 21, 2008

Oh yes I forgot.
It is possible to send out a petition when it has gathered a couple of hundred signatures while pointing out to the recipients that it has just been started and is still being added to.
It will depend upon the consensus ie those who can be bothered to express an opinion one way or another which way we decide to go.
But in order to make it an easier job, when we are closer to the time I will post the list of destinations ( which I think it was x-ray who gave us) again and ask for volunteers to send copies to some of them.
Plus we have the option of buying hard copies and sending them out also.
jx

273. aline - October 21, 2008

#258 Bruce
Nice to have you back.
You’re probably right.

274. jack - October 21, 2008
275. somebody - October 21, 2008

Apollo, October 15, 2008
THE CAL OF THE LOON

Good evening, dears. I guess you all know that the stock market is crashing internationally. We are definitely closer to something than we were at last Friday’s meeting. We will see how far Influence C take it, but it has enormous possible complications. The school is making preparations. I guess that we have been preparing for this event for forty years. When our statue of David arrived, our two century plants (cacti) flowered, something which occurs once every thirty-five years. The Mexicans say, “The shoot their heart out to God.” The two emphatic shafts are like short Be and long BE. When we installed the statue of David, I wondered if we were about to face a Goliath. What is occurring now may be the beginning of that. Wayne Mott was in the supermarket two days ago and noted that everyone was going about his daily business, as if nothing was happening. A few years ago, in the Swissair flight near Boston, the pilot reported that all the passengers were quite calm; two minutes later they were all dead. People are calm now, but it may begin to disintegrate very quickly. We will take each day as it comes, and each day the school and the homes will make preparations. Sarah McGovern is coordinating some of the farming, and Samantha will be calling students to suggest that they buy extra stores of food. We just purchased quite a few seedlings for winter vegetables, and a community seed bank will be available. If they disappear, we will order more. Two months ago I was having dinner with Candice Goldman, and she said very firmly, “Whatever comes we’ll be ready for it.” Things have changed a lot since last Friday. The market fell 1,874 points this week. In 1929 when the market crashed, it took two years for it to bottom out. Then it lost ninety percent of its value.

276. unoanimo - October 21, 2008

Hello Jack ~

“Does it still exist?”

If you mean the rose garden, yes; not sure about the ‘intent’ part of others now out of the FOF: I would guess that the immediate pressure of making ends meet are on most people’s hearts and the ‘idea’ of a legal, Oregon House territorial reacquisition of 365 acres, a ‘certain something’ that slips in and out of the shadows cast by good and not so good poetry…

Now wouldn’t that be something of a sight; for ex-members to converge one day and make that property finally what the dream yearned to wake up to be? We would definitely have to hire an Estate salesman first, those gold leafed statues would have to go and then there’s that ‘big David’ in the park, that one, I’ll personally ‘situate’…

Maybe it could be a joint ownership between the state of California and former students? It would be a beautiful location for a charter school too or an artist retreat… Who Knows; though I will certainly make it a point to visit when I am 90, just for the sake of good poetry.

277. dragon - October 21, 2008

274. Robert E.Burton

” We just purchased quite a few seedlings for winter vegetables, and a community seed bank will be available. If they disappear, we will order more.”

___________________________________________________________________

Finally you are reasonable! Great!

From “The Gardener”

By Rabindranath Tagore

“Keep me fully glad with nothing.”

How to make a super herb salad:
“Sometimes, particularly for festive occasions, we enjoy making rather extravagant herb salads modelled after those of the Renaissance. We use mild greens to allow the herbs to be fully savoured.
Handfuls of lettuce and smaller handfuls of Italian parsley, dill or fennel leaves, basil, chervil and sorrel, with some sprigs of tarragon, marjoram, chives, cress, or lovage compose a glorious salad.
We dress the whole lightly with flavourful olive oil and lemon juice or wine vinegar, then sprinkle it with nasturtiums, violas, and borage blossoms, or perhaps lavender, sage, or rosemary flowers. We have found that such a fanciful salad gives us and our guests a sensual appreciation of fresh green things.

And don’t forget the good old coffee substitute in your garden:

Chicory, Cichorum intybus

Culinary:
Toss some young leaves into salads or cook as a vegetable. The roots undergo a treatment (roasting) to produce coffee substitutes and coffee additives.

Medicinal:
Chicory helps relieve constipation and is helpful to those suffering from bilious attacks and liver- and gal problems. It also, due to high insulin concentrations, acts as a sedative and tonic.
Note: Not suitable for those anaemic.

Cosmetic:
Used from the inside to help improve liver functions, it will help with a clear complexion.

278. nigel harris price - October 21, 2008

Thanks to Jack, we’re again on the right track…..Nigel.

279. spoonful - October 21, 2008

On the subject of total denial.

The Hayward Fault is one of a network of cracks in the Earth’s surface running through the San Francisco Bay Area. The records show that the past five large earthquakes on this fault have occurred on average about 140 years apart, and the last was – you’ve guessed it – 140 years ago. Today is the anniversary.

Perhaps the teacher had made a prediction.

280. Josiane - October 22, 2008

274. somebody
“Two months ago I was having dinner with Candice Goldman, and she said very firmly, “Whatever comes we’ll be ready for it.”
_______
In 1998, for the preparation of the fall of california, I was a neighborhood coordinator (students’ houses had been divided into neighborhoods–not a bad idea in itself for emergency purposes). We worked very hard to prepare for a major catastrophy. On one occasion I got to talk to RB and told him almost exactly what Candice told him: “We will be ready.” His reply: “No one is ever ready for anything like that.”

It may seem profound on his part to reply that way, and yet, at the same time, every time I had an opportunity to talk to RB, the end result was that I was left with the feeling that I had somehow failed; that I was unworthy of his attention.

I recall a very intense time when P*t*r B…., dear to my heart, was diagnosed with terminal illness. I participated in a $1,000 per person dinner with RB (with P*t*r present) to raise funds for the press P*t*r had his heart set on before he died. The memories I have of that dinner are many but two will suffice: I asked RB whether the soul remembers its past lives. He replied that his soul didn’t; after that I was ignored for the rest of the dinner. Later, he made a comment (don’t remember what it was) and less than ten minutes later, a student at the table (now an ex-FOFer) repeated Robert’s comment almost word for word. Robert was extatic and complimented him on his achievements.

That night I started questioning.

Namaste

281. Daily Cardiac - October 22, 2008

Josiane – 279:

“I recall a very intense time when P*t*r B…., dear to my heart, was diagnosed with terminal illness. I participated in a $1,000 per person dinner with RB (with P*t*r present) to raise funds for the press P*t*r had his heart set on before he died. The memories I have of that dinner are many but two will suffice: I asked RB whether the soul remembers its past lives. He replied that his soul didn’t; after that I was ignored for the rest of the dinner. Later, he made a comment (don’t remember what it was) and less than ten minutes later, a student at the table (now an ex-FOFer) repeated Robert’s comment almost word for word. Robert was ecstatic and complimented him on his achievements.

That night I started questioning.”

Josiane, did it ever occur to you that that was exactly what Robert’s motives were in saying to you the things he said and acting to you the way he did – to have you start questioning. However, not questioning him but questioning your own identifications.

He certainly knew you would notice his cool reception to your question and also notice his more joyous response to the student mimicking him. But these are exactly the kind of things that are minuscule in comparison to the issue of escaping. In my opinion he was lavishing you with attention that night.

I once asked him a similar question to yours and he calmly said “You know it sounds like a noble question but it’s exactly what’s keeping you from being present to this moment”

282. Yesri Baba - October 22, 2008

A Pall for the Poon

Good evening, dears. I guess you all know that the stock market is crashing internationally. We are definitely closer to something than we were at last Friday’s meeting. You might ask: “What are we closer to?” Well, me blowing smoke up your stupid asses once again, of course. It really is becoming quite boring. I am numb from the astounding gullibility of you idiots, why just last night Assif chubbed a bagette up my bum and I barely felt it. Just think 2012 is fast upon us. With your craniums stuffed with oatmeal only able to generate superstition and obedience this fearmongering isn’t challenging any more. I have more fun poking an ant hill or wacking a bee hive.

Even though I am suggesting certain events may happen which assures us that they won’t we are still taking steps. There has been a large concrete bunker constructed beneath the Galleria. It will be filled with cases of K-Y jelly and Viagra. This is in preparation (Oh that reminds me- dear, could you add a few cases of Preparation H) for hydrogen warfare. Also underway is the construction of an up-scale underground mall so I can keep shopping through these difficult times ahead. The mall will contain many lovely stores stocked with pastel suits, silk scarves and hats, lots of hats. There will also be a pleasant thrift store toward the back of the mall for the women and pleebs. Due to space constraints the food court will have to combine. ‘Hotdog on a Stick’ will be inside ‘CinnaBun’ (heh,heh that was my idea- I love those cute hats on those girls at HDOAS, makes them look like big penises)

As you know my role is nearing an end. With that in mind I have had a special tomb designed. It will have an opening which will allow my divine buttocks to protrude out and upward towards the heavens so the ‘boys’ can come around for a cold one when the mood hits them and so old Candie Goldfarb can keep kissing it when I’m gone. Isn’t it wonderful? Know that when I’ve passed my Asstral body will be cruising the galaxy. I hear those Alpha Centaurians are hung like… well… centaurs.

Well dears, keep thinking of all the terrible things that are going to happen and keep preparaing for them as you have for the last forty
years and be sure to keep that chatter going in your head so you don’t notice the kingly life I am living off of your life. Toodles, the Rod of Hermes is getting a little anxious, if you know what I mean.

283. lauralupa - October 22, 2008

“In my opinion he was lavishing you with attention that night.”

DC, were you there? Otherwise, how would you know?
Your comment may sound helpful to you, to me it seems callous and oh so arrogant.
I am quite sure Josiane knows what she is talking about.
Robert ignores people constantly, all the ones who are not related to one of his personal agendas.

Daily, did it ever occur to you that your mind is projecting noble and wise intentions on everything Robert does?
You are the perfect slave.

He once gave me this answer to my question: “the state is the answer”. Seemed rather deep at the time.
Just another magician’s trick.
Here’s another one: “keep making efforts and everything will be fine”
oh yeah. so wise.
same routine answers for everyone, like fortune cookies.

“I know it sounds like a noble effort but trying to be present is exactly what’s keeping you from being able to think”

284. Across the River - October 22, 2008

262
Hi jack,

The experience of living within a house of mirrors that reflected a sense of intellectual superiority kind of wrecked most of us when it came to connecting emotionally with anyone else, including family and even our own children. I wouldn’t know how to express in words the awakening from that condition to understanding now.

***********

266
veramente

In that all encompassing Love there sure are a lot of conditions, first among them is to insist that one’s state is considered above all else. The quest for perfect knowledge continues, barely skipping a beat. The work is now focused differently but primarily serves the same function of promoting a higher state and what doesn’t resonate is rejected. In essence I think we all get that. Thank God for this place of free expression where there are others who have also learned that Love holds many things at once and is sometimes fierce.

I also wanted to reply to the idea of Robert taking off….I would expect that to definitely be in the works. Lately I’ve talked with two different ? 😉 current members who blissfully “separate” and remain untouched exactly as in other peaks of dissention throughout the years. The static mind-set equals “no problem”. They don’t look like zombies and seem genuinely emotional, intelligent, spiritually attuned. Their fidelity is a triumph over all the noise out here. They have what they want.

For sure when Robert glides elegantly out of the U.S. they will follow, commute, or just send money in gratitude to their retired teacher. (That might be something to share with Ryan McCarthy.)

These worlds just cannot meet!

“Life is perfect even though I am drowning in shit, but in my head I feel great”.

***********

265
unoanimo

An evening reviewing the In Memorium page on the GF site was the catalyst that allowed me to reclaim the emotional memories without conflict. These are the innocents who rest in peace there and it seems like they hold the beauty intact for all of us.

***********

279
Dear Josiane,

I hope answers are pouring in these days. Here’s a good one: Why is everyone in the Fellowship always looking for disaster “out there” instead of running around like their hair’s on fire because their teacher is a vampire fraud IN THE HOUSE? Answer: diversion by design.

285. Across the River - October 22, 2008

280
DC

“You know it sounds like a brainwashed post and it’s exactly what’s keeping you from being present to this moment”.

286. Draco - October 22, 2008

Lauralupa, I’ve never thought of this before: Robert’s love of fortune cookies is well known–surely they were his inspiration for the daily card format and his habit of boiling his teaching down into “angles” which he can memorise and repeat!

Daily Cardiac: nice to have you back.
Why would Josiane have asked that question about the soul? Well, robert has taught for a long time that the soul goes through nine lifetimes. Josiane considered the implications of this and asked him a question about it and he cut her off. It happens all the time. Robert comes out with some wacky, ill-thought-out variations on the theme of life after death and when his students actually try to bring some understanding to bear on the subject, he tells them to go away and be present instead. So FOF students become dependent on Robert. Robert reveals truths from on high. If students show that they agree with what Robert says without adding anything, then he is all smiles. If they disagree or ask an awkward question, he cuts them off.

Well, this is what used to happen, anyway. Robert got tired of the risk that his ego wouldn’t be stroked quite enough at dinners and meetings, and now there isn’t any possibility of asking Robert any questions at all. No one dares to ask Robert anything remotely difficult because of the high chance that they might be banned from events or the property or put on a “leave of absence”.

How is the Celestial City of Paradise doing in Robert’s teaching these days? And Limbo, which resembles the Chateau de la Fit wine cellars? In Paradise, Robert once told us, there is a library which has alll the lost works of Sophocles. Is it still there? Is it filled now with the lost grunts of the cavemen doing their sequences? I can never forget the Sunday morning meeting that he gave on the Celestial City of Paradise. He ended by reciting, in a voice beginning to choke with emotion, the lyrics to Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
It’s been a lovely meeting, dears.

This is a very interesting question: when Rovbert does or says something, is he teaching from a higher level of being or is

287. Draco - October 22, 2008

Oops, I left in a sentence at the end that I meant to delete.

Moderator: What happened to Unoanimo’s page with a Latin title that listed accounts of Fellowship experiences extracted from the blog? I can’t find it, and it’s a really good page to link to for people who are interested in knowing more about the Fellowship.

288. Kid Shelleen - October 22, 2008

“Wayne Mott was in the supermarket two days ago and noted that everyone was going about his daily business, as if nothing was happening.”

I simply cannot believe that this is true! But if it is true, what a perceptive fellow that Wayne Mott is.

“A few years ago, in the Swissair flight near Boston, the pilot reported that all the passengers were quite calm; two minutes later they were all dead.”

This is from that Stephen King novel “BobbyKnockers,” right?

289. Wouldnt You Like To Know - October 22, 2008
290. veramente - October 22, 2008

281 Yesri Baba
A Call for the Poon
—————-
thank you Yesri for the re-write : )

Burton is demented, but he uses well his ability to create drama and induce instinctive fear plus tickle the vanity of the chosen ones. We are not better than anyone but we are luckier, right?
Non the FOF soldiers will be taking their task seriously; buy those bags of rice and stock up on wiskey and medicines, do not forget those handy army blankets, they keep you warm in the cold nights without heating available.
Of course will have cattles for Robert Burton ferocious appetite and also to strenghten his boys life force since they are giving so much away to the Sperm and Soul Vampire.

Olive oil will continue to flow as long as the sun keeps shining on earth, vegetables will be plentiful but we must keep guards at night because of “dears” and thieves.
Do not forget to buy for each students 100 personal toothbrushes because I cannot stand bad breath except my own.
All the MD’s will be called to stock on medical supplies for emergencies and all….
The end of the world is coming!!! we are so happy!

291. unoanimo - October 22, 2008

Hello Daily Cardiac ~

I wish you well with the transition period that’s upon Oregon House; it’s happening, for sure and though I can only speak from my personal experience, I can almost guarantee you that the projections invested in everything affirmative outside yourself are (possibly) making a U-turn and returning home to roust… I gave allot to the FOF in the 16 years I was in, all of them spent in Oregon House; every day visits me (and night)…

What I feel in your posts, IMO, is ‘me’, though a ‘me’ that’s a memory; I remember ‘me’ well, it was about 10 years ago when I would hear anything critical about Robert, immediately there was something inside me that would go into ‘defense mode’ (automatically) and this ‘Army of One’ was a paramount, subconscious requirement for a Man#4 and to stay that way, BTW)…

Later I would learn that I was not defending Robert or the School, but rather my subconscious dependence on a crutch, a very serious crutch: picture this ~

A man with one adult leg and the other being that of an infants’… That’s pretty much the picture of walking as a person in need of a certain ‘kind’ of stability, i.e., a surrogate family (The implications are endless).

The odd thing is, that there’s no guarantee that the wooden crutch will outlast the time that baby leg needs to meet Ground Zero; and then comes the limp, which is not negative, just very remind-full.

I wish you well with preparation for this U-turns’ final destination; I believe it is upon all of us, one way or another (And that’s pretty easy to say, though reminds me that I am not an island and that such bodies of land are only called ‘alone’ because there’s water surrounding them, which can be company too…)

The defending of Robert went deep, cosmically deep and later I would find that ‘defense’ of left-brain-affirmative-icons also equated with a vast subconscious jungle of control, fear, a need to be important to others (even negatively important) and an extremely well hidden sub-world of anxiety and panic: somewhere along the way I had acquired the fine art of grooming myself for The Best, while covering up the worse of the war wounds (This is something, IMO, that simply happened during my teenage years so to keep the body limited to one story buildings). Sometimes it’s best to only call yourself ‘Superman’ while (inside) the phone booth.

So, yes, Robert actually did do and mean everything you said he did, and ‘She’ didn’t get it; though, IMO, like any dream, the ‘she’ is you and Robert is ‘you’ too… All of us project and projected upon Robert a need for Need, not its resolution… IMO, a real school knows how to resolve The Need (and it’s not necessarily, IMO, exclusively about being present; it’s also about the quality, depth and frequency of love, its effect upon the whole of humanity at large and the circumstances that ‘happen’ from that emanation… A flower is only beautiful because it’s looking at you…

How does a person ‘feel’ in the FOF, i.e., without the smelling sauce of religious-hope, superstition, fear, dependence, affirmations and projection/faith that another will deliver them someplace better than themselves right now?

The students’ question to Robert is simply the soul trying to complete the contract of Love; to me, this is plain and simple and cannot be given Rain checks indefinitely, yet, in a Cult it can and does ‘seem to happen’, until the bank itself collapses and that pretty much speaks for the beautifully printed paper money, without any personal drama attached…

This ‘bank’ can take many forms, for me, it was my consceince; when I collapsed under its howling, I could only obey the call (and yes, it took me a year to obey).

Where did my protectionism of Robert come from? I would say to any friend (or good enemy) to look towards your parents; and if not them, then their relationship with there’s… IMO, I am not an acorn on my family tree, instead, initials carved there by some fate; I am inside a book, titled by my name and circumstance, as it has unfolded and continues to do so… Robert never held that book, nor did I his; no one, IMO, can ‘really’, though there’s something peculiar inside us that expects the footnotes to be provided by another than our own consceince and heartaches…

Now I must merge with what I’ve subconsciously neglected for the past 15 years, my own father and mother, and yes, my inner father-mother as well…

IMO, the Utopian and moot points that I used to make concerning Robert’s motives (which subconsciously neglected (was ignorant to) the alarms ringing in others more mature consciences that were being demolished by that (Space) in between the Teacher & Student, were exactly what a growing soul does, first stubborn, then born…

The affirmative nectar that flowed in the FOF was awesome, though, like any aphrodisiac, it eventually consumes its host’s ability to eat more of what defines it as a plus-sign…

The FOF hosted all of us and we it; IMO, eventually both get consumed and only the Space remains; I sincerely hope you can be that space, as you are.

L.t.y.a.

292. veramente - October 22, 2008

289 my post

Non the FOF soldiers…
correction: Now the FOF soldiers….

It would be also lovely if I really meant and believed none of the FOF soldiers will take their task seriously….

293. dragon - October 22, 2008

286. Draco + 288. Wouldnt You Like To Know – October 22, 2008

It can’t be repeated too often that this link should make the facts clearer.

Thank you for posting it!
You should post it again and again!

280. Daily Cardiac – October 22, 2008

I am convinced that the term “hell” is a place human beings are able to realize here on this planet.

I am convinced you are realizing your full potential and you will receive your personal “state” if you will go on with the expectation of the creation of a soul.

Well your mental state is really critical! Try to come round from the anaesthetic.

Yours sincerely
food for the moon Dragon

PS some dragon prophecies:

1.) this planet still exists in 2222

2.) california will survive the earthquakes (california is a seismic focus centre)

3.) Shit happens and market crashs occur. It will be hard but humanity will be able to learn a thing or two from it.

4.) In the near future you will go back to your brother and your family and Robert E. Burton will be less than a footnote in history.

294. elena - October 22, 2008

Draco, Josiane,

It is also Robert’s well known technique to undermine whoever is working for him so that they remain vulnerable and never acquire enough confidence. He is a master at it. Thousands of students lovingly labor for him but when they ask for that reassurance that they’ve been working for he drops them confronting them with their own common sense assuring that they see his superiority. It works perfect. He has placed them where they are, used their inspiration to work for him as representing the ideal and then leaves them stray without self confidence, destroying the ideal while he remains, which reinforces the emotional dependence. It happened to all of us in different degrees whether we worked personally close to him or with the Fellowship.

Daily Cardiac reflects the stereotype of someone who Robert’s been extremely successful in “doing in”. Like Girard, no matter how Robert
hurts them they think it is for their benefit and turn it around because they have already accepted that they are inferior to Robert.
The hierarchic structure of idolatry is perfected in such people. Why would it surprise anyone that they are then willing to line young men up for rape or thousands of people for shearing the wool? Is that the word? Shearing?

Across the River,
“Thank God for this place of free expression where there are others who have also learned that Love holds many things at once and is sometimes fierce.”

Beautiful! Thank you.

Thanks all for your posts.

295. whalerider - October 22, 2008

“Wayne Mott was in the supermarket two days ago and noted that everyone was going about his daily business, as if nothing was happening.”

So who was identified?

(October surprise before the election, grasshopper!)

This is what makes the FOF a high intensity, high control cult: fear.

When humans are afraid the can be manipulated to act (and vote) against their own best interests. That’s how Bush got elected, twice. That’s how Robert Burton maintains his flock of followers, same as most any other church. They preach love and teach fear.

Each one of us is going to die eventually, and guess what? It won’t be the end of the world for everyone else.

296. lauralupa - October 22, 2008

and here goes the Daily Song:

All I want is the best for our lives my dear,
And you know my wishes are sincere.
What’s to say of all the days I cannot bear?

A Sunday smile, we wore it for a while
And a cemetery mile we paused and sang
A Sunday smile, we wore it for a while
And a cemetary mile we paused and sang
About a Sunday smile, and we felt clean

We burnt to the ground, left a view to admire
Buildings in sight, church of white
We burnt to the ground, left a grave to admire
The hills reach for the sky, reach the church of white

A Sunday smile, we wore it for a while
And a cemetery mile we paused and sang
A Sunday smile, we wore it for a while
And a cemetery mile we paused and sang
About a Sunday smile, and we felt clean

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SYMHfiYDvzQ&feature=related

297. Another Name - October 22, 2008

Dear friends

We are rocking….the blog is rocking.. I can keep up with the entrees and it is so fun to read and some how, I feel more clear….it is positive, love the last 2 pages….

I thank you all and I really thank Ellen for her questioning my grief. Receiving heartfelt questions and allow time is a wonderful gift. I did some soul searching. I came across a book that describes the spiral of change and that we have to go through it and if we are more aware of the process it makes it more bearable. This is helpful, recognizable and implementable. ( Cute word, implementable do not know if it is an English word, I love it.)

Thanks for addressing Robert “narcistic/sick” aspect of putting us down and making us feel as if we can do “always more” and “never get it “right”, Josiane and Elena and others. It might even have been a repition of Dr Spock’s influence of our parents to not support the positive aspect as children will get vain…..and apply punish and reward principles? Robert got his tendency in this area and people/ students might take this for wisdom as our friend daily Cardiac does. Still blogging?, thought very quiet.( Makes me curious DC….anything you want to share why you are so quiet these days?)

To see the aspect of being put down by Robert and the consequences of this influence for so many years is an aspect of grieving and shedding light on this aspect, will bring awareness and will help us/me to go through it. Courage all of you and for myself.

And as Gloria Gaynor sings:

I will survive

298. fofblogmoderator - October 22, 2008

274 is newly moderated

From 287: Moderator: What happened to Unoanimo’s page with a Latin title that listed accounts of Fellowship experiences extracted from the blog?

It is now back up as a link right below the petition link

299. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - October 22, 2008
300. jack - October 22, 2008

From Alice in Wonderland.

“Child of the pure unclouded brow
And dreaming eyes of wonder!
Though time be fleet, and I and thou
Are half a life asunder,
Thy loving smile will surely hail
The love-gift of a fairy-tale.

I have not seen thy sunny face,
Nor heard thy silver laughter;
No thought of me shall find a place
In thy young life’s hereafter –
Enough that now thou wilt not fail
To listen to my fairy-tale.

A tale begun in other days,
When summer suns were glowing –
A simple chime, that served to time
The rhythm of our rowing –
Whose echoes live in memory yet,
Though envious years would say ‘forget’.

Come, hearken then, ere voice of dread,
With bitter tidings laden,
Shall summon to unwelcome bed
A melancholy maiden!
We are but older children, dear,
Who fret to find our bedtime near.

Without, the frost, the blinding snow,
The storm-wind’s moody madness –
Within, the firelight’s ruddy glow,
And childhood’s nest of gladness.
The magic words shall hold thee fast:
Thou shalt not heed the raving blast.

And though the shadow of a sigh
May tremble through the story,
For ‘happy summer days’ gone by,
And vanish’d summer glory –
It shall not touch with breath of bale
The pleasance of our fairy-tale.”
jx
——————————————————

301. dragon - October 22, 2008

Why we need to fall asleep:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=0jmYPKSvDQs

thanks to all!

302. elena - October 22, 2008

Another Name,

Continued to think about it and came to the conclusion that you can make a slave of anyone you can strip off his/her ideals and that’s how the Fellowship works: It first lives on the ideals people bring convinced that their ideals are the same as the Fellowship’s, then it gradually replaces those ideals into the mass commitment to Robert and the building of the Fellowship itself. As it strips the member from his/her own ideals, he/she continues to labor blindly hoping to understand and align his/her own ideal to the Cult’s. Those who manage, become favourite enablers without anything left of their own, those who cannot, leave sooner or later. That is why burning the baby with the bath water is such a mistake. Take the ideals away from a human being and you’ve nothing but a bag of bones better in the box.

Glad you’re feeling better Another Name!

This burning was so necessary! It also makes me very happy that we’ve moved on! A hug to you all!!

303. fofblogmoderator - October 23, 2008

Sorry comments are closed for this entry

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