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Fellowship of Friends Discussion, part 44 August 9, 2008

Posted by fofblogmoderator in Uncategorized.
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Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

Excessive abuse, personal attacks, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban from the discussion.

Participants require 1 moderated comment before they can start communicating in real-time. (ie. if you are new to the discussion, your comment will appear about 1 day after it has been posted, any subsequent comments will appear instantaneously).

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1. elena - August 10, 2008

By the lake
Filled with light
All of you
Us
And Giovanni
As “Friends”

The lawn,
bigger than the “club’s”
welcoming to play
and stand on my head
trying to get it straight!

Your thin figure and red-brown shirt
“I knew him when he came as a young man”
“Yes, so did I”
And a glimpse of time
run by: a life.

“It’s been thirty years for me,
a lifetime really and it is difficult to know what the next step is”
“Well, we didn’t learn to be here for nothing and as long as we can trust that, there’s nothing to be afraid of.”
And I marveled at your beauty
wondering why you’d ever be afraid of being too free.

To talk for the first time
From soul to soul
Without having to say “that”.
“Do” “That” “Pretend” “that”
and stand without leaves
as human beings.

A blond smile of innocent love confesses:
“I’m still in the Fellowship”
“That’s O.K., we’ll leave the fighting for the blog!”
and the smile grows wider, the eyes intense,
the sweetness,
unafraid.

“Three little girls from School are we”
standing on their hands and me.
Can we play Shark? And run?
And catch? Like mad?

A long kiss that he knows better than well,
Allows me to feel that I’m more worthy than hell!
No sex, no need,
“Just” friends.

Couldn’t do the somersault,
It’s been too many years and the back, oouuuch!
Who knows, but the nerves know
They’ll still do the somersault again.

“Oh! I knew Dorothy, I worked at the store for eighteen years so I got to know a lot of them. She was a sweet lady, always walking, sometimes I’d give her a ride.”

“There’s a serious group trying to open up the Fellowship to life people and ex-members, so that they can all come to events”
“Hmm, they better do something quickly before they get mauled by the courts.”….
Probably trying to reduce their sentences.
Many might fall in the trap of going to their events and giving them credibility
But I’ll walk back on the property
When the Fellowship is no longer there and
my shoes don’t stink
Of dry semen on roses or
Dead roses on life people.

We’re ready to leave,
Would you like to come?
Oh no, I’m having a lot of fun!
And we embrace like a mother and child,
My big friend and I.

You arrive.
And saying good-bye
The softness of your skin and hand
Goes far,
Not bad!

2. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

I feel a little silly coming back to the computer after a brief nap and reading Ellen’s evocative poetry, when the following was what was ‘going around in my head’:-

If my warrior-nobility part-of-me is using the ‘Sword of Enlightenment’ during these days, you can probably bet that, if DC reports back to REB, he will open a ‘gathering’ with – “The penis mightier than the sword!” (no spelling mistake – pun intended).

Actually it was REB who quoted afar back “God and Sex are sacred, because they are made up of short, three-lettered, words” What does anybody think of his ‘sacredness’, now the truth is out?…..Nigel.

3. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

1 Elena

Sorry Elena. I didn’t look hard enough at the name. My apologies (please accept them)…..Nigel.

4. lauralupa - August 10, 2008

somebody 212
“*Here we see the Mona Lisa with four fingers draped over the edge of the chair, outside of time, and four dowels beneath the arm of the chair. Rembrandt used the same shadowy technique. She also shows four fingers on the other hand, with the thumb out. Behind the Mona Lisa is an aqueduct with four aches, representing the four wordless breaths. The sequence is the water of life flowing through the four arches. *Boticelli used this same motif in his painting of the Adoration of the Magi, having heard about Leonardo’s painting from Raphael. Here Boticelli is the steward, with his red hair combusting. His hands are hidden, like Moses not touching God with his hands. Behind him is a bridge with four arches, representing the four wordless breaths. He looks shrewd because the steward has gotten the victory – he has finished the sequence and is supporting the four wordless breaths.”
I know this is just a minor technicality among the general madness, but I would like to point out that Botticelli’s Adoration of the Magi was painted in 1475, while the Mona Lisa is dated around 1503-1506, around thirthy years later. RB evidently doesn’t give a shit about facts, since his followers apparently will swallow any nonsense without budging.
And which good Tsarist would dare to rectify the sacred words of the Great Cosmic Schmuck?

“Know what I pray for? The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can’t, and the incapacity to tell the difference.”
“Calvin and Hobbes,” Bill Watterson

5. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

1 Elena
Actually, I’d far rather pay you a true compliment. The last line from ‘Braveheart’, the movie about William Wallace, goes:-

“They fought like warrior-poets, and won their freedom”.

Elena, I feel sure that you have moved on to a new level…..Nigel.

6. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

4 lauralupa

C’mon laura. 45 started with a solid ‘do’. Between you and me, we have taken it from the ‘sublime to the ridiculous’. Oh well! Maybe that is what blogging is all about – a Universal Melee?…..Nigel.

7. fofblogmoderator - August 10, 2008

A quick apology.

You will find In the welcoming paragraph at the top of the page that the links to the various sites are inactive. I will correct this as soon as I can, but it might not be until the next discussion page. I’m still learning how to operate the management tools for the blog.

Thank you for your patience.

Steve

8. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

7 fofblogmoderator

Don’t worry! If we never start anything new, we never make mistakes and, consequently, never learn and continue on. We are all with you (honest)…..Nigel.

9. fofblogmoderator - August 10, 2008

#290 from the previous discussion page (page 43) is
NEWLY MODERATED

10. Ames Gilbert - August 10, 2008

Daily Cardiac (#294 or thereabouts),
You’ve just answered the question about how seriously Burton took his own predictions, despite your attempt to excuse Burton by claiming he qualified them (he never did so in my presence, and he must have talked about the various predictions at least fifty times in my hearing over many years). The answer was that he took them very seriously, because he told people to move to Apollo, buy food for the 1984 depression, and so on. As for your example, I’d say that there were 100 people who bet that California would fall. They took out loans predicated on the assumption that they would not have to repay them. Hence the many stunning McMansions in the most dubious taste. Many people took out lines of credit, as did Burton and the Fellowship of Friends, presuming that these debts would not have to be repaid. Some people even bet on a stock market crash. And, what is your explanation for the fleet of brand-new quarter-million dollar RVs, tractors and so on parked at the south end of the property a couple of weeks before the Big One was predicted? And that was just what I could see with my own eyes, since I lived right there and passed them every day. I also noticed that they disappeared soon after the abject failure of the prophecy. Anyone else smell greed and fraud here?

I had some things to say about Burton’s prophecies before, especially as to their purpose—to engender fear or infatuation in the followers. I won’t bore everyone by repeating them here, but in case you missed them, one was to was to Hava Nagillah (# 11-2) and another was to Golb (# 11-114).

11. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

10 Ames Gilbert
My God! I never thought they would go that far (the things you described). I think if the foffers were to act like other humans with an ‘aim’, they would know for sure that death was a certainty, and that everyday should be played out in sincerity and Essential Commitment. As Whitman penned:- “…that the mighty play goes on, and that you may contribute a little”…..Nigel.

12. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

10 Ames Gilbert
I took the trouble of going back to your suggested posts and am mind-boggled by some of the things (I am sure you experienced more closely than myself and others) about REB’s predictions. Also, have you noticed the absence, recently, of DC posts. Maybe things are being reported back to REB and ‘petty policies’ (Henry V) are now being produced to stop on-the-fencers from reading the blog and leaving the FOF in droves. “All quiet on the western (Californian) front (facade/personality)”. This is a special edition of the blog (45) and I can see the Forces of Truth mustering the troops against the Hordes of Sleeping Moronic Followers of Fakes…..Nigel.

13. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

Serendipity rules again! Between my last post and this came a passage from Henry V, which I am watching on DVD:-

“We would not seek a battle as we are, though, as we are, we say we will not shun it!” (King Harry)

14. veronicapoe - August 10, 2008

And then he fucks it up even more with the sequence. I guess his narcissism compels him to try to leave something unique. What a putz.

Of course, searching the history of art and then “keying” it to a set of ideas has been done before, with more profound and more intelligible results, in my opinion:

http://aras.org

15. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

14 veronicapoe
I went through the ‘I and my bosom must debate awhile’ phase of the DVD mentioned above, with Martial fear that my ‘insistency’ might have had a negative effect on (all) bloggers………but have just reached ‘and how it pleaseth God, dispose the day’. Thank you for your link, which certainly makes even the Bible, which Fundamentalist Christians and, especially JW’s, hold sacred, look questionable in its predictions of things that seem to be of the future (actually, the whole thing, from predictions to events, could all occur within a ‘bubble’ of doubt). I love going into art-history again (I spent 4 years at Art College – 1 year on a general Foundation Art Course, and then on to a BA Hons Degree Course) and never was there anything approaching this ‘sequence drivel’ spouted by REB. Actually, I think the fight is, to be short, between Truth and Artifice. May it soon come to a head and I would dearly like to meet all ‘truthful’ bloggers in person in the not-too-distant future…..Nigel.

16. Reality Check - August 10, 2008

..
What is Burton? It is “what” rather than “who” because as will be explained the beast is no longer human (nor is he superhuman) and he has been subhuman for decades. Likely the only creature with a lower self than a false prophet is a murderer and of course a successful false prophet is a murderer of human psychology. Think of the level of false personality required to come in contact with the myths of Moses and Christ, men that legend has it spoke directly to a higher power and received knowledge of the future, and then say to yourself, to your lower self, “That’s me too! I’m as important as they were.” Sounds absurd and yet history records thousands of these minor overconfident Napoleons collecting the broken souls of the habitually dissatisfied and wrecking havoc on the followers and those in the vicinity of their delusional compounds. “But Burton is just like Gurdjieff!” Ever hear stories of hundreds of ex-followers of Gurdjieff complaining of the fraud perpetrated against them? Ever hear stories of women complaining of their sexual relationship with Gurdjieff? Regardless the flaws in G’s behavior his humanity outweighed his questionable actions to the point that there was little grumbling over his egotistical indulgences. There are not many extolling the humanity of Bob Burton. Burton sells esoteric lies to naïve magnetic centers, those usually of questionable psychological stability (I think we all have to agree that we ex-FOF followers were not exactly as perceptive as the average effective citizen), in order to secure for himself an excessive quantity of materialism at the level that his own sociopathic instructor enjoyed. Yes, in Burton’s mind everything is a contest to see who can satisfy and glorify himself the most and in this respect he has openly declared that he surpassed his teacher. Which actually isn’t true, Horn and his wife Gans owned/own far more than Burton does from the proceeds of their “conscious teaching.” Burton is simply one more in a near endless line of conscienceless predators functioning from the lowest level of self, functioning from the degenerate level of the false prophet, and in Burton’s case he made every possible effort to make sure that the mark of the false prophet is clearly branded on him. Still, at least a score of hundreds of substandard human specimens are blind to the obvious signs and continue to project onto Burton their elaborate illusions of what comprises a “holy man.” A delusional fool that imagines himself a prophet even when history openly rebukes his claim, one without the conscience to realize his mistake and give up his false position, is no longer a human being capable of sincerity with himself and as each minute of the continuous lie is prolonged in his and his desperate followers minds then the further from the possibility of consciousness they drift. In the end they mistake insanity for higher consciousness, like every other spiritual criminal in history.

17. veramente - August 10, 2008

Dearest Pavel/Sheik,

Thank you for hosting us here for over quite a long time, your account of the first prospective student meeting back on the very first page of this blog has been one of the best writings over what it really is the Fellowship of Friends.(a well dressed and vain illusion for the most part)
This blog has been a great place to come to terms with the fof experience and like someone else said here: I cannot thank you enough.

I wish you all the best in whatever you are going to put your energy into and dedicate this youtube to you: something bold and beautiful with movement and energy one can never find in a place like the Fellowship of Friends.

Copy and paste this link:

drop in by sometimes !!! : )

18. nigel harris price - August 10, 2008

43/22 wakeuplittlesuzywakeup
I was going back-blog and saw your mention of Adyashanti. Here is one question/answer clip from one of his sites:-

Stephan: What would have been a success – awakening?

Adyashanti: Well, failure was the success – awakening happened through failure. In that sense, I have a great respect for the lineage. What was transmitted was bigger than all the carriers, it was even bigger than the lineage, much bigger than Zen, much bigger than Buddhism.

Stephan: And what was that?

Adyashanti: I’d say a certain spark an ALIVENESS (my capitals, n)

Thank you WULSWU, for your lead…..Nigel.

19. rock that boat - August 10, 2008

THANK YOU Somebody 204 or 202?
I can hardly believe this manipulative,
domineering, paranoia power trip oft the Lower Self list!!!

Just like the dictators of the past, Hitler, Mussolini,Stalin etc
what is happening here is RB is:
Suppressing Individual Creativity As a Threat to his Total Control

Lower self according to RB
(from the meeting on “Characteristics of the Lower Self”
– attempts to break the four wordless breaths.
– disguised as a nine of hearts, kind and friendly person,
– I’s unrelated to sequence,
– in love with itself,
– the master-spy, difficult to detect,
– rules the imaginary picture we have of ourselves;
– kills the sequence,
– shows teeth,
– unhappy person within us,
– centered in the base of the spine;
– cold and in-compassionate;
– judges others and oneself;
– finds faults in order to keep us from detecting that the problem is internal;
– keeping an account to displace presence;
– opposes sequence;
– prefers to fill centers rather than the third eye;
– changes shapes – 10,000 shapes;
– devours the sequence;
– is the second state;
– uses the word “I”;
– prompts imagination;
– belongs to the intestinal world
etc, etc.

20. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 10, 2008

Nigel #17: Adyashanti: I’d say a certain spark an ALIVENESS (my capitals, n).

And Adyashanti is able to transmit this aliveness simply by acknowledging someone. That’s how he teaches and that’s what makes him a good healer. Acknowledging someone is a form of love.

21. Daily Cardiac - August 10, 2008

To Ames, RVW, Paul, Richard:

To clarify things a little you are correct; Robert has taken all the predictions very seriously. That does not mean he knows the outcome or claimed to. I’m surprised no one among you has not thought this out with more reason. No man can foretell the future.There has never been such a person walking the earth.

Some men have been given accurate information about future events; some through their consciousness, others in other ways; dream states, trances, etc. Some through plain common sense.

But all men are at the mercy of Higher Forces with regard to the accuracy of their predictions. All Robert ever claimed to my knowledge is that he was passing on the information they gave him accurately. It’s obvious that he believed these events could happen as they were indicated to him. On the other hand I’m sure he was aware of the possibility they may not happen.

None of us know the plans of Higher Forces, nor the reasons they do things the way they do them.

Getting back to the point that no one can know the future, just think about it. If there was such a person inhabiting the earth, many would be aware of it. If he or she was good they would have eliminated much of the suffering in the world. If they were evil they would own the world. What would you have done or would be doing now if you knew the future?

Robert has always qualified the predictions by specifically saying he was giving us information that Influence C wanted us to work with. He played the part of a reporter more than a prophet.

But “failed” predictions are another wonderful tool to justify one’s leaving, if one is going in that direction. And in that case I can see how they served a purpose in the school.

22. veronicapoe - August 10, 2008

20/Cardiac

Robert has always qualified the predictions by specifically saying he was giving us information that Influence C wanted us to work with. He played the part of a reporter more than a prophet.

When Robert taught at the Springhill Elementary School in Lafayette, he and Peggy Garvin did a “lip sync” which the audience thought was hysterically funny. It was so successful that it became the foundation of his life and work, er, schtick. Remember, if the record skips, it’s not the performer, it’s the record.

“C influence is responsible for everything of significance. [Ergo, I am responsible for nothing. It’s them, not me.] They are making my lips move. They are making your ears work.” There’s no room for personal responsibility in there.

23. Bares Reposting - August 10, 2008

Daily Cardiac,

You may, or may not, be FatBoy who has posted here before. (Go back and ready the FatBoy posts and see for yourself.) However, whether or not, you sound very much the same. This is probably due to the CULTural influence and how it attracts a certain type of people and fosters a certain type of mindset (read: intellectual, emotional, or whatever, mind, fixation). Whatever the case may be, here is a reposting just for you:

25/442 Bares Reposting
on November 18, 2007 at 9:42 am

This one’s for you FatBoy:

Fatboy Slim – The Joker 03:13:

24. Bares Reposting - August 10, 2008

Daily Cardiac,

Here’s another one:

24/462 Bares Reposting

This one’s for you FatBoy:

Run Fatboy Run (Trailer)(2007) 2:23:

25. Bares Reposting - August 10, 2008

And, lastly:

25/441Bares Reposting
on November 18, 2007 at 9:20 am

This one’s for you FatBoy:

26. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 10, 2008

Daily Cardiac:

‘But “failed” predictions are another wonderful tool to justify one’s leaving, if one is going in that direction. And in that case I can see how they served a purpose in the school.’

I wonder if you really know how arrogant you sound. Most people leave the FOF after many years of struggling with their choice to leave. A decision not made lightly and certainly for most not made over a few failed predictions. ‘A wonderful tool to justfiy ones leaving’. MEOW how cold that sounds. Where did your heart go cardiac?

27. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 10, 2008

a little more: A yet another verification of Will Coyote’s ashtray theory.

28. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 10, 2008

Sorry typed too fast, should be ‘And yet another verification of Will Coyote’s ashtray theory.’

29. Pavel - August 10, 2008

Veramente: It sent shivers down my spine.

30. Pavel - August 10, 2008

Well, this will be the final farewell as a moderator of the blog.

My best wishes and gratitude to Steve for taking over and all my love to all of you. Thank you and keep the boat rocking.

31. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

Pavel/Sheik: Your patience and time working with us is admirable and much appreciated. Thanks for all your efforts at hanging in there as long as you have. Much love to you.

32. fofblogmoderator - August 11, 2008

#16 is newly moderated

33. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

Daily Cardiac 20

The convoluted logic of this post is appalling. Your justifications about the failed prophesies are some of the most brainwashed examples of religious no-thought I have ever come across in my life.
So you really are convinced that there are Higher Forces at work communicating with Robert Burton and repeatedly feeding him wrong information about the future so that… ? Now, what would their aim be?
Ah yes of course, “None of us know the plans of Higher Forces, nor the reasons they do things the way they do them”. So there’s really no point in trying to discuss this rationally.
How can you verify your assumption that Higher Forces communicate with Robert Burton? What gives you this certainty besides Robert’s own assertions? Can you see that this is a form of religious belief? Did you join the Fellowship because you were looking for a religion or were you at the time still interested in the quest for truth? Can you for a moment try to think out of the box and explore the possibility that the voices Robert hears in his head are his own demented thoughts and not some totally unpredictable and mysterious godly beings?
Who are these higher forces anyway, and what do they want from you? Presence? Why? What is their higher purpose?
Why do you trust the voice of one person over the voices of hundreds of others? Is it because this particular person carries the label of “conscious being” attached to him by none other than himself? You are a true idolatror, and you should know where idolatry leads, or maybe you don’t…
Here is some good Old Time Religion for you:

“How the faithful city has become a harlot…,
[In Isaiah, harlotry refers to idolatry, the worship of false gods]
“…She who was full of justice!
Righteousness once lodged in her,
But now murderers.
Your silver has become dross, Your drink diluted with water.
Your rulers are rebels, And companions of thieves;
Everyone loves a bribe, And chases after rewards.
They do not defend the orphan,
Nor does the widow’s plea come before them.”
–Isaiah 1:21–23

Their land has also been filled with idols;
They worship the work of their hands,
That which their fingers have made.
–Isaiah 2:8

The LORD enters into judgment with the elders
and princes of His people,
“It is you who have devoured the vineyard;
The plunder of the poor is in your houses.”
–Isaiah 3:14–15

“Little children, guard yourselves from idols”
-1 John 5:21

dear child, you have been so mislead

34. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

They have mouths, but cannot speak,
eyes, but cannot see,
ears, but cannot hear,
noses, but cannot smell,
hands, but cannot touch,
feet, but cannot walk.
They cannot even clear their throats.
Those who make them will end up like them,
as will everyone who trusts in them (Psalm 115:5-8).

Those who trust in idols will turn back and be utterly humiliated,
those who say to metal images, ‘You are our gods’” (Isaiah 42:17).

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity… They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil… Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Rom 1:28-32 (NIV)

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, God’s wrath is coming. Col 3:5-6 (NIV)

oh yeah, and don’t forget to participate in all those lovely events, better enjoy them now, their time might be counted
just be present and everything will be just fine!

35. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

Been working for the church
While your life falls apart
Singing hallelujah with the fear in your heart
Every spark of friendship and love
Will die without a home
Hear the soldier groan, “We’ll go at it alone”

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=He1Yq_D7Jv0

36. Daily Cardiac - August 11, 2008

WULSWU:

“I wonder if you really know how arrogant you sound. Most people leave the FOF after many years of struggling with their choice to leave. A decision not made lightly and certainly for most not made over a few failed predictions.”

I can see how this statement seems cold and arrogant and I will try harder not to sound that way; it’s not part of my aim for being here.

On the other hand if cold and arrogant remarks bother you you’ve missed a lot of opportunties to inform any number of bloggers.

Do you think there is a double standard going on?

Regarding “a few failed predictions” not factoring into people leaving; I beg to differ. There’s been a spike in leaving after all the major predictions – 1984, 1998/99. In 2007/2008 there was a big spike coincidentally after the biggest prediction of all failed to happen in 2006.

37. elena - August 11, 2008

Pavel, I hope you don’t disappear totally although it is easy to disappear at this point but if you’ve been enjoying it so much lately why would you? Wouldn’t it be easier to participate now not having to be the moderator?

Either way, good luck and have fun. Your presence is always welcome, you did a great job supporting us all, one way or another. Please don’t hesitate to contact me if I can ever return a favor.

Great thanks,
Elena

Daily Cardiac,

How absurd…
you rubbing on us the fact that we were stupid enough to believe the predictions and play along with the game? So naive you could not have taken greater advantage if you’d wanted to but it does not make you or Robert or the Fellowship any better. You’re still just the phalluship of crooks,creeps and freaks. All the naivete you’ve stolen from other people shows in the way your skin drops from your bones without any firmness and the bitterness that doesn’t remember if the last time you laughed with great joy was in another lifetime.

You poor freak, trying to lay a trip on the people who went along with the Fellowship as being too stupid to matter. It is not that it is not true, we were all too stupid but your pointing it out shows the same attitude with which you enabled it. Take advantage of the idiots since they’ll go along with anything that’s said? Then you could continue unrolling the meagre role you had gotten inside? Of course, you don’t mention you were the greatest idiot of all, convinced that you got the role because you were less stupid and Robert actually thought you were above the rest but deep down he knew you were weaker than most and would bend over and get fucked by him and the Followsheep in a much deeper way than the rest of us. Fucked not just down your pocket and pants but your brain and heart and the cheap balls with which you’re now rubbing it on people that they were just too stupid to believe. Get your stinking hands out of here or rather stay so that you can continue putting your foot in it like Mr. Mearns and the whole bunch of idiots that sent me to court and everyone can see the arguments you use to defend yourselves for what they are. You’re such a coward you don’t answer these posts but pick on the easier ones that still try to reason with your intestines as if worms could reason.

How many idiots are you still counting inside dear? One of these days they’ll surprise you so hard. About half of your population no longer is with you but on top of you. Watch out dear, don’t get sick. What is it like to live in a nest of traitors? Only no one yet knows who treasoned who and you all look at each other wondering who’s who.

Even your so called best people talk like this: Well, I’m only there so that I can steal as much as I can from it since it’s not going to pay us back for what we’ve invested. And everyday you loose more than you can afford. Decadence is a sad show but you’ve forgotten other theaters exist. As long as you keep modelling your pretty dresses and shiny cars you can rest assure that nothing is happening, it is all just dandy dear, just dandy, but don’t trip over your own shoes.

38. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

Dear DC #36: Because I went through the process of leaving myself I am far more tolerant of people who have left the FOF even when they may act like boobs. But I don’t see a lot of arrogance and coldness in former members. I do however see a lot of anger. There’s a big difference. Anger is full of emotion whereas being arrogant and cold lacks emotion. I see anger as part of the healing process and arrogance and coldness as blocks to that healing process or a large resistance.

39. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

To all recent lady bloggers

“Hell hath (etc.)……………….(but not maybe ‘a woman’s scorn’ – but ‘women BORN’ – to the ways of justice, parity and peace, the true way of ALL RELIGIONS!)…..Nigel

40. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

Daily Cardiac
I really think, sometimes, that you are GH himself or are being heavily influenced by him in your inanities which you post here. You rely only on REB as your ‘source’ (oh! I forgot – he got de whole ‘o’ de angels on he’s side), whereas others who level-headedly post here go to sources which have respect for the human condition ‘as they find it’. I suggest you look up some of the works of Ni. and Ad. on Google, as I have done………oh! but I forgot – Robert says”*****”….pleasant nightmares, IDIOT…..Nigel.

41. elena - August 11, 2008

P.S. Bruce, it’s difficult to verify that you’re the only smart enough guy around here to call these fuckers for what they are before they even send in their second post. What would we do without you? I’m concerned because I might have to introduce you to my next love so that you tell me if it’s worth getting into it before I fall on my knees. How much would I have to pay you to become my personal counsellor? Or at least the blog’s?

How do you do it? How does it work? We each seem to pick up an area and know how to develop it, but do you have any idea of how you actually do it? I’m interested in an intensive course!

42. paulshabram - August 11, 2008

30. Pavel

Sheik,
I don’t think I can express my admiration or thanks any better than those that have already done so. I haven’t known you long, but I am grateful for what little contact I have had. I appreciate your decision, I appreciate the effort, and I appreciate your wisdom.
-Godspeed-

43. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

21. Daily Cardiac

I’m not going to refute your stuff point for point. Let me just say this…you’re an idiot.

44. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

#21 Daily Cardiac: Did you ever see the movie Pleasantville?

45. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

21. Daily Cardiac

I have enough trouble counciling myself, but thanks.

46. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

41. elena

That was for you Elena, not the schmuck from 21.

47. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

Shiek, thank you so much.

48. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

#21 Daily Cardiac: If you didn’t see the movie, I went ahead and copied this from a website about it:

‘The fruit we deal with is not evil, but the knowledge of good and evil. As Pleasantville suggests, an innocent can have no real knowledge of good. The knowledge of good and evil is necessary to be able to choose the good. Otherwise, we are automatons, scripted characters living perfect, scripted lives. There’s a powerful metaphor for awakening here. We need to become conscious, aware of the fact that we are alive, aware of our awesome ability to choose, aware that God lives in us, and that we live, breathe, and have our being in him. Only then can we truly live as Jesus told us to, as cunning as serpents and as harmless as doves (Mt. 10:16).’

49. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

45/46 brucelevy
You sly bugger. You had me scrolling up to check #21 to see what you were on about, then I realised I had got the ‘swerve ball’ the first time!

47 wakeuplittlesuzywakeup
I am beginning to become more and more appreciative of your presence here on the blogsite. Many thanks for the nourishment.

50. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

Sorry – 48 WULSWU (genuine mistake – honestly bruce)

51. Opus 111 - August 11, 2008

#36 Daily Cardiac

“Regarding “a few failed predictions” not factoring into people leaving; I beg to differ. There’s been a spike in leaving after all the major predictions – 1984, 1998/99. In 2007/2008 there was a big spike coincidentally after the biggest prediction of all failed to happen in 2006.”

I think you failed to account for a few confounders in your conclusions. 1984 was also the year of the Saunders trial and Miles leaving, two events which, in my humble opinion, had much more of an impact on people decision to leave than did that little “failed prediction”.

You did not mention 1994 (Troy trial). I do not know the stats but I would venture to say that as many people (and more old timers) left in 1994-95 that did in 98-99. Again no mention of that little spike. Yes the failed prediction of 98 had a big impact on people’s psychology, revealing that REB had no clue when it came to predictions, despite his repeated and failed attempts at reloading on the California fall prophecy (3-4 at least in the ensuing 5 years). 2006 was a non-event as far as I am concerned. No preparation whatsoever. No big emphasis on it from our shaken, “C-influence-humiliated” prophet.

The exodus of 2007-2008 has little, if anything to do with that latest of notable failed predictions. You know what it has to do with: light, more light, much light shined on REB, his abhorrent practices, his total lack of a conscience, non-existent love for his students and compassion for his fellow humans. Scales are slowly falling off eyes of members and 1 by 1, they leave and learn to breathe anew.

52. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

51 Opus 111
Amen to that…..Nigel.

53. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

49 Nigel: Thanks. Made me purr.

54. whalerider - August 11, 2008

cardiac arrest:

“I will try harder not to sound that way”

There is no ‘try’, grasshopper, there is only doing or not doing.

You might think of the blog as your daily defibrillator.

55. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

Daily Cardiac
Might I suggest that, as you and fellow members have made payment, you all do more than just the ‘window shopping in all four centres’, which seems to be this blind acceptance, which ex-members are talking to you about and then see whether you are receiving REAL HEAVENLY FOOD and not just REB’s ‘throwouts’..Nigel.

56. Old Fish in the Sea - August 11, 2008

I would agree with Opus 111. Most people left in 1984, not because of the failed prediction but because of the Saunder’s trial and Miles leaving. I personally never considered leaving when the prediction did not happen, but I did consider it when Miles left.

Many left again in 1994 after the Busby trial and the resulting dismisal of a number of strong students. I could guess that we left when we felt that the risks of staying under the leadership (and strange judgment) of Robert was as great or greater than the risks involved with taking responsibility for our own lives (and evolution).

Few of us were eager to start a new life with new friends, and we were conditioned to be afraid for our soul, so we considered long and hard before leaping out of the nest.

The predictions were one indication of poor judgment but the sex scandals were more obviously harmful and in direct conflict with Robert’s original stated aims to build a beautiful Fellowship.

My perception was that Robert devolved. He was always a bit paranoid (probably related to his sexual habits) but he became more and more so, and as a result he separated himself in an extreme way from criticism and put himself in an unrealistic bubble.

Even Peter Bishop as FOF President confided to me that he was afraid of telling Robert the truth.

I believe that the restrictions on Apollo Arts performing outside of the property was related to Robert’s fear of publicity. In short, he was afraid of the attention that our performances might bring to the FOF and eventually to his weaknesses. And so he pulled us inward, encouraging us to hover around him and his gardens, while discouraging us from testing our own wings.

I also believe that the change in form for the meetings was a result of his fear of being questioned, so we had to read pre-defined (and safe) quotes, so as to avoid dealing with some difficult issues.

Had Robert dealt with his fears and with criticism directly, I believe I could have trusted him despite his weaknesses and I am sure I could have lived with 10 more failed predictions, but for me, the fact that he continued to build walls between himself and life, and more importantly between him and his students, implied identification and fear to me and I felt that these walls were not healthy for him, older students, or for the FOF as a whole.

I mentioned earlier that perhaps we leave when we feel that the risks of staying under the leadership of Robert was as great or greater than the risks involved with taking responsibility for our own lives (and evolution). Eventually, if we wish to evolve beyond a certain point, we will need to take responsibility for our own evolution. It may not be advisable to put this off for too long.

Whether or not we can fully take responsibility for ourselves within the confines of the FOF is an open question.

Robert’s strange ways and decisions make us question whether or not our own judgement, as flawed as we know it to be, might be just about as good. His strong pull on our resources (time and money), make it difficult to fully explore life and our relationship to it. We are restricted to exploring in the same mode that he explores which may not be in keeping with our own essence. Additionally, I believe that subconsciously, we are ashamed for Robert, and our devotion to a man with such habbits, and this makes us draw in as he did, into a self protective bubble. Thankfully, this is balanced by some of the positive aspects associated with presence.

57. Tina - August 11, 2008

More expulsions.
eight so far.
reason: David Hawkins.
tremers….

58. Daily Cardiac - August 11, 2008

Opus 111 – 51:

“I think you failed to account for a few confounders in your conclusions. 1984 was also the year of the Saunders trial and Miles leaving, two events which, in my humble opinion, had much more of an impact on people decision to leave than did that little “failed prediction”.”

Do you really think there would have been a .Saunder’s suit or Miles episode if events had unfolded as the prediction said? I don’t. Miles may have left, but how many would have followed him if a full fledged stock market crash had occurred on Jan.31th?

59. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

56 Daily Cardiac
The reason behind why there was a Saunders trial, was that Saunders himself was being threatened with legal action from a (gay-boy?) who had left and felt that Saunders was responsible for ‘accomplicing’ REB’s proclivities. The reason Miles left was that (he said) he wanted to do so before being sent to direct the Paris Center. So, you might say, REB escalated the events of 1984. If this throws you into a state of fomatory confusion, it will be great to see you climbing out of it…..Nigel.

P.S. 56 was my birth-year. n.

60. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

56. Daily Cardiac

What the fuck does that have to do with the price of oranges.

61. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

56. Daily Cardiac

I’m beginning to think you’re way more fucked up then you originally appeared.

62. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

O.K. DC – you asked for it!

On the subject of predictions – my role was ‘etched out’ for me in Isiah 42 “He will not cease until he has brought justice in the earth…”. and Walt Whitman gave me the ‘stance’ of ‘The Answerer’ “A man is a summons and challenge; it is vain to skulk, do you hear the ironical mocking and echoes?”

I hope that this time, the message will not be poo-pooed and that you will report back to REB, so that “…the French (you FOF lot), advised by good intelligence of this intent, shake in their fear…and with pale policies…” (Henry V)

To make a claim like this, you have to be ‘free of features’…..Nigel.

63. My4bits - August 11, 2008

Opus 111, post 51, et al:

Thanks for your post, Opus!

Today, in the process of working through my personal story of “the chain of 30 links,” the topic was “The Ark.” So, I thought I should say a few words about some of my experiences in this regard.

The Ark was a central concept for me during my years in the Fellowship. We were told that Influence C wanted something for us, and something from us: For us — our astral body; From us — an Ark. And so, building the Ark became, for me at least, the way to ensure my spiritual success. I went “whole hog and the postage, too.” It was “3rd line.”

From 1996 through 2006, I worked to develop security for Apollo. This involved meeting on a regular basis with others who were responsible for security for the 1998 prediction. Together, we developed “what-if” scenarios to address the possible chaos and disruption that would ensue following the fall of California, and how we could/would respond to protect our esoteric community.

You may have heard about the organization of Neighborhood Groups at Apollo, in preparation for 1998. This organization was detailed and extensive, and went through several iterations over the years.

The N.G. plan included intelligent protocols for communication and safety, in the event of a catastrophe. Neighborhoods and individuals were advised to purchase radios and walkie-talkies. If and when the predicted occurred, the community response would be tightly coordinated from a communications center located at the Winery, which would have a chain-of-command link to RB himself.

There were also detailed plans, more hidden, to provide an armed response, if necessary, in the event of chaos. RB had said, “One day, we will be required to defend Apollo.” Who knows what he truly meant in saying this, but the gears were set in motion to do so, in a very physical way, when the time came.

Leading up to the 1998 date, many students purchased firearms, in response to the general message of impending chaos and danger from “outside.” Reactively, this trend was sharply discouraged, as the FoF was suddenly becoming “visible” in local gun shops.

There was, however, never an order to stockpile weapons, as one might imagine of a defensive and paranoid cult. The accumulation of “firepower” was tightly managed, controlled, and limited. The scale was to be that of individual gun owners, and good citizens, observing all relevant Federal and State laws.

Under the management of Peter B. and others, contingency plans were developed to provide an effective, armed response in case of emergency. The approach was, and is, legal — any property owner is rightly entitled to protect his own property, with lethal force if necessary, for self-defense.

There were no automatic weapons, no hand grenades, bazookas, etc., Waco-style. This extreme was never given a first or second thought. The potential foe was the extreme chaos that would predictably result from Armadeddon-like catastrophes, such as the fall of California and eventually, 2006 — not from the Federal government or crazed, gun-toting locals. We simply needed to have the means to protect ourselves, as a community, and as an Ark, in case of a large-scale disruption in which law enforcement agencies would no longer be an effective deterrent.

RB supervised these preparations, made suggestions, but always worked through intermediaries. He cannot be implicated directly in having made any preparations of this kind. Nevertheless, the story is interesting in that it shows the intensive level of involvement in the potential likelihood of RB’s predictions: We were allowed, and encouraged, to believe in an “enemy,” against which we must be able to protect ourselves, if need be. From a distance, RB said only that we would need sufficient firepower in order not to be overwhelmed.

These facts certainly should create some “cognitive dissonance” in those who think that RB didn’t really take his own predictions seriously. For us, or at least for me, it became a potential “life or death” situation. At stake, the Ark and my soul, myself and my friends.

I don’t think that more detailed information would be helpful for bloggers who are open to learning the lessons to be garnered from this story. It would tend to distract. No laws were broken. No one was shot. It was all a charade, but one which some people, such as myself took all-too-seriously. But therein lies the danger, and the lesson.

Finally, I came to realize that there was no community, in a real sense. There was no Ark. There was nothing really to protect, and certainly not with lethal force! All of the weapons I accumulated during these years have since been sold back into the aether. All of the training I and others acquired in this decade-long cause was for naught. All of the time and resources that were expended for these preparations, gone. A harsh, dark lesson, indeed.

What is the situation now? Who knows? My take is that “security” on this scale is now a non-issue for Apollo. It remains only an everyday consideration for RB himself — perfectly legal, and perfectly justifiable.

But then there’s 2012…

64. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

61 My4bits

Thanks for the neutral feel of that post. I think ALL will find it useful…..Nigel.

65. veronicapoe - August 11, 2008

For the record,

there was no Sanders “trial”

Miles left in 85, not 84

No one is legally privileged to protect property with lethal force. People are privileged to protect themSELVES and OTHER PEOPLE from bodily harm. If you use lethal force to protect your PROPERTY, but don’t actually have a reasonable fear that you are going to suffer bodily harm IMMINENTLY, you’re up shit creek.

66. veronicapoe - August 11, 2008

the first two facts above were directed at daily cardiac.

the third above responded to my4bits’s post. Rereading the post, it appears clearer than I first read it. So my little dissertation on privilege and the use of force was probably not necessary.

67. Across the River - August 11, 2008

30 Pavel
Wishing you all the best. It’s been a good ride, and nobody could have done this better. Thank you!

And thank you Steve for taking it on 🙂

59 brucelevy
Amen. It’s getting old.

68. Ellen - August 11, 2008

#14, Veronicapoe

Thanks for the ARAS link and its study of the collective unconscious.
I think the whole area of the collective ego and unconscious contains many (but not all) keys to understanding the phenemon of the Fellowship.

Many images on the ARAS homepage were used in our meetings. The images, themselves were/are quite powerful. As also were the quotations from various enlightened individuals. I myself found a great deal of sustenance in simply looking at the images (or listening to the quotes) and allowing them to reverberate within. Which I still think is fine, the problem is when you begin to connect specific defining concepts to a symbol, you also begin to limit both yourself and the symbol to those concepts. Which then kills the life in both you and that symbol.

In the Fellowship, the main concept/agenda is defining and describing the Lower Self – as the enemy to consciousness. Therefore the 10,000 idiots are to be denied rather than accepted and transformed. You can see this in Daily Cardiac’s attitude. He is interacting here as a PR effort to minimize the bad press, but his basic underlying attitude is that all the voices here, each in their own way and time have sold out to the Lower Self. And he truly and deeply believes that, because he has own higher states as his own personal verification. Who can argue with that?

I understand the thinking though, and know it to be ignorance of the full and complete picture. In the Fellowship, we busied ourselves muchly over the boat of consciousness. Were the sails set? Was the watchman upon his hour? Was the rudder held steadily? Was the wind too fierce? Was the destination near or far?

All the time oblivious of the huge sea of awareness upon which we floated. A sea that is always there, deep, silent and dark. Absorbing all, unflustered by any. Able even to steer the boat if only the helmsman would cool down his jets a bit to learn of its secrets.

69. Draco - August 11, 2008

21. Daily Cardiac. “No man can foretell the future.There has never been such a person walking the earth.”

I think I’m getting the hang of your logic. How about this:
No man can foretell the future. Therefore anyone who prophecies an event in the future (as opposed to the rational analysis of trends) is a lunatic. Robert prophesied events in the future. Therefore Robert is a lunatic.

70. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

Ellen 66
thanks for another beautifully expressed nautical metaphor.
My grandfather was a sailor and I truly love them!

… “Have you come, then, to rescue me?”
He laughed and said, “from what, ‘Colleen’?”
You dried and dressed most willingly.
you corseted, and caught the dread disease
by which one comes to know such peace.”

Well, it’s true that I came to know such things as
the laws which govern property
and herbs to feed the babes that wean,
and the welting weight for every season;
but still
I don’t know any goddamned “Colleen.”

Then dive down there with the lights to lead
that seem to shine from everything –
down to the bottom of the deep blue sea;
down where your heart beats so slow,
and you never in your life have felt so free.
Will you come down there with me?
Down were our bodies start to seem like
artifacts of some strange dream,
which afterwards you can’t decipher,
and so, soon, have forgotten
Everything.

from Joanna Newsom, Colleen
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=enmj-fK9niY

71. Draco - August 11, 2008

56. Daily Cardiac.
“Do you really think there would have been a .Saunder’s suit or Miles episode if events had unfolded as the prediction said? I don’t. Miles may have left, but how many would have followed him if a full fledged stock market crash had occurred on Jan.31th?”

I think that you’ve isolated a sound principle here. Members leave the Fellowship when fundamental tenets of the Fellowship are proved to be incorrect.

So, people leave when predictions don’t occur. People leave when they discover that Robert wasn’t celibate as he had claimed. People leave when they discover that Robert’s sexual encounters are not the loving consensual that he claimed. People leave when they realize that the sequence is neither ancient nor particularly useful. People leave when they realize that Robert teaches us to denigrate the body and its needs and pleasures, but spends most of his time unsuccessfully trying to satisfy his instinctive desires. People leave when they realize that the Fellowship can only provide relative awakening. People leave when they see that so much in the Fellowship is the opposite of what it claims to be.

etc. etc.

72. WonderingWhosWatching - August 11, 2008

21, etc. Daily Cardiac
Re: Predictions:

You, my friend, do not know much more than a small small fraction of what has gone on behind the scenes with the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton at the time of several predictions. Besides many of the accounts, here on the blog (most recently: 61. My4bits) and elsewhere, of people’s lives undergoing major major changes to accommodate to the exercises and directives imposed on the membership at the prediction times, there have been personal and specific actions that indicate that Robert Burton definitely believed that these events would happen and that great lengths were taken in anticipation that he would benefit big time from them.

For instance, under the direction of REB, significant and valuable materials would be assembled by the tractor trailer full, ‘on approval’ or ‘on account,’ so that payment would not be necessary were the disasters to happen. These were not materials, that some others have discussed, for humanitarian relief nor for protection of the FoF membership. They were specifically to aggrandize his personal wealth/greed. Of course, after the prescribed time passed and nothing happened, the materials had to be sent back. I am sure you have heard how after 2006 holocaust FoF was going to collect the world’s most valuable art treasures – well just think how something actually was attempted in a smaller scale fashion as practice sessions. Bizarre, like telling people to get homes built and assume debt that could not be afforded, nor paid for, with the hope that the financial world would collapse and you’d have your home and property for free. Wake up you idiots!

So, your ignorance or lack of awareness about this more hidden side of FoF/REB, indicates that you; 1) are a relatively newer member, 2) did not live in Oregon House at time of the predictions, 3) are one very sleepy puppy, 4) are deeply brainwashed, 5) believe the FoF myths, and/or, 6) are lying to yourself and us. How’s that for a sequence? Now go have your four sacred breaths of fresh air and see reality.

The person who could foretell the future was not appreciated in their own time. So that must be the reason REB is not appreciated.

Do not believe anyone who asks, ‘Do as I say, not as I do.’ For, if your teacher cannot BE THE WORDS, then what sort of example is being made? And, besides, even if being the words was required of all, then REB would just change the words to whatever he wanted.

The lesson you are being taught is that, no matter what, the form is irrelevant to the consciousness path you are on. So, REB will morph it into even the most absurd and expect the membership to accept it.

73. Draco - August 11, 2008

43/275 Daqily Cardiac.
“Thank you for expounding of the N. quote and offering the link and the longer (in context) version.

It’s a little ironic because if this longer quote would be read as the opening thought to one of Robert’s meetings it would fit in perfectly with
what’s being presented in today’s FoF.”

It would indeed. It would be read in the following way:-

“You must deal (USE THE SEQUENCE) with the ‘I’-sense (LOWER SELF) if you (STEWARD) want (NINE OF HEARTS) to be free (FOUR WORDLESS BREATHS) of it (BY USING THE SEQUENCE). Watch (WORK ‘I’ LOOK) it in operation (USING THE SEQUENCE) and at peace (WORK ‘I’ PEACE) , how it starts (SHORT BE) and when it ceases (LOWER SELF INTERRUPTING THE SEQUENCE) , what it wants (LOWER SELF) and how it gets it (LOWER SELF) , till you see (WORK ‘I’ LOOK) clearly and understand fully (LONG BE). After all, (FOUR WORDLESS BREATHS) all the Yogas (THE SEQUENCE) , whatever their source (THE SEQUENCE) and character (THE SEQUENCE), have only one aim ( USING THE SEQUENCE TO ATTAIN THE FOUR WORDLESS BREATHS) : to save you (LONG BE) from the calamity (LOWER SELF INTERRUPTING THE SEQUENCE) of separate existence (LOWER SELF) , of being (LONG BE) a meaningless dot (SHORT BE) in a vast (LONE BE) and beautiful (THE SEQUENCE) picture. (HE MEANS THE PICTURES THAT WE USE AT THESE MEETINGS.)

Is it not remarkable that there are four sentences in that last reading, indicating the four wordless breaths? Further, each sentence consists of six words. This is the most profound angle that we have so far found in the Indian tradition. Is it not amazing that a country like India, which I don’t visit because it’s not rich enough, can produce something like this? We have many wonderful Indian students, but no Indian student has ever *ahem* ‘traveled’ with me. What could great Influence C mean by this. Dorien, phone the Bombay center and ask them to send photographs of the most handsome students under thirty years, with measurements. Ask the Petrarch Press to print us another passport.

However, Nisargadatta was not a conscious being. He died of lung cancer which is C Influence’s way of saying that he succumbed to the lower self. Students should not read his works because they might succumb to the B Influence virus. It means a loss of Fellowship income.

Robert, you have some semen on your chin.

74. Draco - August 11, 2008

Some of that didn’t come through because of my use of angular brackets. Here it is again.

43/275 Daily Cardiac.
“Thank you for expounding of the N. quote and offering the link and the longer (in context) version.

It’s a little ironic because if this longer quote would be read as the opening thought to one of Robert’s meetings it would fit in perfectly with
what’s being presented in today’s FoF.”

It would indeed. It would be read in the following way:-

“You must deal (USE THE SEQUENCE) with the ‘I’-sense (LOWER SELF) if you (STEWARD) want (NINE OF HEARTS) to be free (FOUR WORDLESS BREATHS) of it (BY USING THE SEQUENCE). Watch (WORK ‘I’ LOOK) it in operation (USING THE SEQUENCE) and at peace (WORK ‘I’ PEACE) , how it starts (SHORT BE) and when it ceases (LOWER SELF INTERRUPTING THE SEQUENCE) , what it wants (LOWER SELF) and how it gets it (LOWER SELF) , till you see (WORK ‘I’ LOOK) clearly and understand fully (LONG BE). After all, (FOUR WORDLESS BREATHS) all the Yogas (THE SEQUENCE) , whatever their source (THE SEQUENCE) and character (THE SEQUENCE), have only one aim ( USING THE SEQUENCE TO ATTAIN THE FOUR WORDLESS BREATHS) : to save you (LONG BE) from the calamity (LOWER SELF INTERRUPTING THE SEQUENCE) of separate existence (LOWER SELF) , of being (LONG BE) a meaningless dot (SHORT BE) in a vast (LONE BE) and beautiful (THE SEQUENCE) picture. (HE MEANS THE PICTURES THAT WE USE AT THESE MEETINGS.)

Is it not remarkable that there are four sentences in that last reading, indicating the four wordless breaths? Further, each sentence consists of six words. This is the most profound angle that we have so far found in the Indian tradition. Is it not amazing that a country like India, which I don’t visit because it’s not rich enough, can produce something like this? We have many wonderful Indian students, but no Indian student has ever *ahem* ‘traveled’ with me. What could great Influence C mean by this. [whispers] Dorien, phone the Bombay center and ask them to send photographs of the most handsome students under thirty years, with measurements. Ask the Petrarch Press to print us another passport.
[turns back to the audience]
However, Nisargadatta was not a conscious being. He died of lung cancer which is C Influence’s way of saying that he succumbed to the lower self. Students should not read his works because they might succumb to the B Influence virus. [shrugs] It means a loss of Fellowship income.

[Alisanne:] Robert, you have some semen on your chin. [wipes it off with napkin. Robert’s medications start to kick in, his jaw goes slack and he ends the meeting.]

75. Draco - August 11, 2008

70 WonderingWhosWatching

After the 1998 failure I remember lots of stuff being sent back. Genuine Impressionist paintings, Persian rugs, boxes full of expensive watches and other jewelry, collections of top-quality ancient Greek coins and gems. Someone stole Robert’s favorite ring during one of the prediction periods and he was very upset.

76. Ellen - August 11, 2008

#72, Draco

You are a magician!

77. Draco - August 11, 2008

[Two Russian students, known only as student A and student B, discuss the meeting in Russian.]
[A] Yo, dude, can you believe that shit! I thought I was gonna piss myself laughin’ at that last angle.
[B] I was doin’ no laughing’, my man. I was experiencin’ Long Be.
[A] You mean you actually do that sequence shit?
[B] The sequence? Fuck, no. I found a way to get through these meetings. Natasha always stands next to me with her hand in my pocket. Short Be becomes Long B pretty quick.e pretty quick.
[A] By the way, I know a good pawn shop in San Francisco. It’s better than sellin’ the stuff. I mean, if Robert wants to see one of his ‘gifts’ again, or if someone notices that more antiques have disappeared from the Galleria, we can pay back the pawn money and show him the goods.

[B] Have we worked out who’s gettin’ the Guercino when Robert dies?
[A] That’ll be Big D. M is out of favor so he’s just getting Genia’s portraits, the poor sap.
[B] Shit, Robert’s coming, we’d better stop speaking Russian. How come he doesn’t want us to speak in our own language anyway?
[A] He found out that we were calling him an Ass number 8.
[Robert appears and nods] Hello dears.
[B] I love you Robert.
[A] I love you Robert.
[Robert cups their genitals in each of his hands and then puts a $500 bill into the breast pocket of each of their Armani jackets.
[Robert] Our breakfast lovemaking was exquisite, was it not, my dears.

78. Ellen - August 11, 2008

#68, Lauralupa,

Nice poem. I read it to m’self with an Irish accent, too, lassie.

79. veronicapoe - August 11, 2008

Ellen,

I myself found a great deal of sustenance in simply looking at the images (or listening to the quotes) and allowing them to reverberate within. . . . the problem is when you begin to connect specific defining concepts to a symbol, you also begin to limit both yourself and the symbol to those concepts. Which then kills the life in both you and that symbol.

I hear you and agree that building a conceptual box around a symbol limits the power and resonance of the symbol. I do think we can connect symbols and concepts in a way that doesn’t squash the range of the symbols’ potential meaning. Ideas can illuminate symbols without “defining” them, I think. But the whole modus operandi of squashing symbols into the grotesque confinement of having to signify the macarena, er, the sequence, doesn’t surprise me. It is simply a logical extension of narcissistic grandiosity: “All art and all symbols in recorded and unrecorded history simply express my special discovery.”

80. whalerider - August 11, 2008

Cardiac arrest:

“Do you think there is a double standard going on?”

81. nosridammus - August 11, 2008

56

I predict if you print out all your posts to the blog that, one day, when you wake up from your titanic retardation you will have as many bigazz belly laughs as I do reading them now.

82. Mick Danger - August 11, 2008

17 Veramente
Vain Illusion = Villain. That’s how I read it anyway.

83. Renald - August 11, 2008

ASGAS`S SEVEN HOLY BREATHS

Bagman, dear, come nearer.
Let me lick the jelly, dear,
From your hairy belly
So it don`t get so smelly.

Tic tack, tic tack,
The time is coming Jack,
It`s coming, can you feel it?
Never you mind, I will heal it.

Yes, yes, you five are fives.
Moscow needs your wives.
No time to fine dine
Dear.. the desert wine!

Today Niagara Falls
Tomorrow viagara balls.
Green or blue it`s the same to me
`Cuz I can`t hear and I can`t see.

You`re all doing very well
You`ll never never go to hell.
Unlike the six billions moroons
Who`re destined for the moons.

I hate pussy and I hate cat
Charlies are where it`s at.
Milly knows, they`re so cute
Or is that they`re all mute?

Damned those receptions
With their deceptions.
All I want is a lil lovin`
And now it`s… nigh on seven.

Surprise, surprise, surprise
The gods sent down an exercise.
No more mom and no more grammar
Contractions are fine in the slammer.

84. fofblogmoderator - August 11, 2008

56, 57 and 81 are newly moderated

85. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

veronicapoe 77
“All art and all symbols in recorded and unrecorded history simply express my special discovery.”

But of course, all ways are the Queen’s Ways!
Poor Alice, she better wake up…
there’s Malice in Wonderland

86. sharon - August 11, 2008

Tina – I do not remember D. H_wkins – can you explain further, please?

87. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

D. H_wkins is the author of a book called ‘Power vs. Force’ and popular among many for his studies of kinesiology. If you Google him you’ll see who he is.

88. sharon - August 11, 2008

Oh – I guess this is more B-Influence virus baloney.

89. Ellen - August 11, 2008

#56, Old Fish
Nice to hear from you again. Nice post, too.

90. sharon - August 11, 2008

Googled it – found http://www.spiritualteachers.org/david_hawkins.htm

sounds about as objective as some other kinesiologists I’ve encountered (other than M. M_lders, I’ve had very poor experience with them – I must be at the moron level, too!)

91. God Laughing - August 11, 2008

57. Tina – August 11, 2008

More expulsions.
eight so far.
reason: David Hawkins.
tremers….

Please explain Tina
What do you mean…. Kicked out?
…..MORE

92. Rear View Mirror - August 11, 2008

Old Fish 56. Summarizes it really well.

Tina 57. People being kicked out for studying ideas from an outside source. Not surprising.

But it’s still odd. The FOF calls itself a “school,” and yet it’s afraid of ideas.

93. Opus 111 - August 11, 2008

Sharon #85:

Hawkins’ writings and conferences have been amongst the alternate “sources of inspiration” that members seek to relieve their thirst for useful knowledge, given the extreme intellectual poverty of RB’s own teachings.

There was apparently a recent conference by Hawkins a few current members went to. This is obviously a big no no in RB inflated mind. Someone blew his/her little whistle to RB’s ears, et voila! A few more members asked to take “a permanent leave of absence”. Keep them going! I heard of three, the above Tina’s post mentions eight.

One is good, one at a time, all the time.

94. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

83. Renald

You are a poet. Though you may not know it, your feet show it…..
longfellows.

thanks

95. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

Jeezus!
Thanks sharon, I looked up mr. Hawkins and found some rather discomforting information. Guess it takes a while to grow back into simplicity and common sense after years of magic numbers and relentless mumbo-jumbo.
Or maybe I am just another calibrated moron.

“Recently, a book called Power vs Force has appeared on the New Age book shelves, and its author, ex-psychiatrist Dr. David Hawkins, has begun a whole program to calibrate “truth” on a scale of 1 to 1000. So for example, he and his team of muscle testers claims that Jesus calibrates at 1000, Mahayana Buddhism at 960, the Koran at 720, love at 500, reason at 400, fear at 100 and shame at 20. 85% of the world’s population, according to Hawkins, calibrates at under 200 — the threshold of integrity.

If you strip down Hawkins’ work to its bare essentials, you have a man that is basically dowsing for God. He is taking the whisperings of the subconscious as absolute measure of all things, even something as abstract as “truth”. But surely, to understand whether this is justified, we need to understand what the subconscious is and what truth is. Without examining these terms, we end up making meaningless assertions, such as Hawkins’ “a cat’s purr calibrates at 500″.

And that is the irony of Hawkins’ Power vs Force: if you subscribe to his calibrated world then you give away your power to define your own reality and to determine your own meanings in life — a prerequisite on our journey to wholeness and integration. You end up polarizing experience into high and low calibrations, forgetting that both the light and the dark are needed for true integration and individuation. Nobody else can do this for us; nobody else can supply us with the symbols and meaning that we need, whether it is with their intuition, a pendulum or a muscle test. We have to have the courage to walk our own path.

Fundamentalists like Hawkins and Dez actually scupper our spiritual growth and our journey to wholeness because we allow them to take away our opportunity to learn that we create our own realities and that we assign all meaning to that reality. Instead, the gold of subjectivity is swapped for the base-metal of pseudo-objectivity, and in the process we unwittingly become accomplices in perpetrating fundamentalist delusions.”

from
http://www.energygrid.com/spirit/2005/02ap-dowsinggod.html

96. Rear View Mirror - August 11, 2008

94. lauralupa… Thanks for the review of Hawkins. It sounds like you don’t recommend him, lol. I’ve never been motivated to pull one of his books out of the library — partly because I’m having a growing aversion to stepping “out of the frying pan and into the fire” — from one set of weird and convoluted ideas (the FOF) to another.

Still… Getting “expelled” for studying his ideas? What’s the worry?

Read it. Evaluate it. Critique it. Analyze it. Discard it, or dismiss it. This is the approach you’d take in a “school.”

Forbidding it – that is a cult.

97. Wouldnt You Like To Know - August 11, 2008

Re: David Hawkins and expulsions thread:

95. Rear View Mirror – August 11, 2008, and others:

Still… Getting “expelled” for studying his ideas? What’s the worry?

Read it. Evaluate it. Critique it. Analyze it. Discard it, or dismiss it. This is the approach you’d take in a “school.”

Forbidding it – that is a cult.

– – – – – –

Didn’t Gurdjieff have some of his students/followers read Ouspensky’s writings and have discussions about him prior to Ouspensky meeting Gurdjieff? Where would the Fourth Way be now had not this inquiry, receptivity and study been exercised? Probably Ouspensky’s earlier writings, the before Gurdjieff ones, might have remained even more obscure than they are now. And, most likely, the later works, The Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution, In Search of the Miraculous (Fragments of an Unknown Teaching), and, The Fourth Way, would not have been written/printed. The whole Ouspensky branch of the Fourth Way might not have happened. Rodney Collin might have remained an insignificant travel writer and his Fourth Way literature, similarly, not come to fruition. People in the Burton Church do not realize just how stifled they are. The creative juices are, literally, sucked out of them.

98. More history needed? - August 11, 2008

20 students visited D Hawkins in the last week.
8 received a message on their cell phones:” they are expelled”.
One of them is Mihai……

99. More history needed? - August 11, 2008

correction 20 students and ex students.

100. nosridammus - August 11, 2008

Nosridammas was born just past halfway through the 20th century near the center of the country known as America.
The accuracy of the prophecy in his mysterious writings are stunning the modern world.
Scholars disagree on what form to ascribe to his writings yet all who have studied him agree in total on at least two points-

1) His prophetic visions arose within him like a scent in the early mornings or late evenings while couched on a commode taking a hefty dump.
2)Despite their poetically ambiguous expression all his prophesies, without exception, came to pass- unless they didn’t. If they didn’t it was only because they were misinterpreted by the pinheads who were the subjects of the prophesies anyway. So they were able to go back and reinterpret in line with what happened until they were seen to be accurate, so….that’s nice.

Here is a sampling-

“Thousands will roll squeelypiggy, some will drown in the Bigmuddy.”

“”In the kingdom of Tinybrain a dark cloud looms. There is no justice in the Cuarts of Guzzlejizz.”

“In the times of many words Skrotumlikker reigns over Putziss.”

” Rivers run red with their blood, sweat and tears chasing the Wildgoose.”

As you can see from this small sampling it is startling how much truth has come through this man’s visions.

101. nosridammus - August 11, 2008

That Hawkins stuff sounds super retarded. He should be IN the FOF.

102. paulshabram - August 11, 2008

100 Yesri-Nosri
A modern day Oracle. Laboring over the fumes of his own vessel.

103. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

Sounds to me that soon the ‘ex’ OH group will become larger than the ‘in’ OH group. Quite interesting to me from an energetic point of view.

104. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

Wow! lotsa stuff today!

However, I found myself today sinking into ‘soft synchronicity – serendipity’. August has had 11 days out of 11 with rain here in Devon. Eurhythmics “Here comes the rain again, falling on my head like a memory, falling on my head like a new emotion…is it really with you.” Also Annie Lennox sang “A company of angels, playing with my heart.” When I reached the Somerfield Supermarket, there played “Let your love fly, like a bird on the wing, and let your love grow with all living things…”. At my local pub, my ex-paratrooper friend put the first song on the juke box – Pink Floyd’s “Coming back to Life”. Walt Whitman stated in his poetry “Maybe you have been on it (the road) all your life”.

The first album I purchased, after leaving FOF was ‘Hue and Cry’ “Remote”. One track goes “Violently, you came to me, told me I could be a different man………….and now I tremble into your hand”.

And finally XTC (you translate it) wrote “Making plans for Nigel”

And my mood is not in the mood for an argument. C’mon DC, say something formatory, or report to REB…..Nigel.

105. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

WULSWU 102
Yes, critical mass is being reached…
and then the walls may come tumbling down.
How quickly or slowly, that is yet to see.
I wouldn’t mind if it happened Berlin-style, a big party with everyone embracing in the streets.

“To live effectively is to live with adequate information.”
Norbert Weiner

here, a little more RAW for those in the mood…

http://www.rawilson.com/walls.html

106. nigel harris price - August 11, 2008

Thank God for the women in our lives (he said, in true Celtic-Essence). Yes, it is, as far as I know, the only culture in which both men and women can be equal Chieftain, Bard or Smith. “Believe me, I do not lie” (St Paul)…..Nigel.

107. Daily Cardiac - August 11, 2008

Drago 71:

“I think that you’ve isolated a sound principle here. Members leave the Fellowship when fundamental tenets of the Fellowship are proved to be incorrect.”

I would disagree that the predictions are a fundamental tenet of FoF.
the Non Expression of Negative Emotions and the like are fundamental tenets to my way of thinking.

108. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

106. Daily Cardiac

Your “way of thinking” is as stagnant today as it was with your first posts as FatBoy.

109. Daily Cardiac - August 11, 2008

Bruce 71::

“I’m beginning to think you’re way more fucked up then you originally appeared.”

This is typical of your responses; the vast majority of your posts never touch on any issues, or offer alternative thoughts, dissections, analysis, etc. They simply engage in name calling. It’s a good tactic as many here probably don’t even notice what you’re up to.

Since I don’t want to leave you completely out in the cold I’ll play along – My daddy can beat up your daddy!

110. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

DC: I think most of us would agree that when we are at peace, or enjoying the non-expression of negativity in our surroundings, we are enjoying our lives more. No need to make it a ‘fundamental tenet’ towards deciding to stay or leave the FOF. That’s just life on planet earth.

However, I believe that this exercise created more denial and emotional dysfunction in its members, myself included, and was the least understood than most of the other exercises.

Members never got any help towards understanding how to transform emotions so for the most part you got to just ‘stew in your own juices’ or have another ‘tall’ one and thus creating even more emotional dysfunction.

There has never been any real ‘instruction’ period. It’s un——-believable as Bruce puts it.

I stand by my Pleasantville analogy and Will Coyote’s ashtray theory.

.

111. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

108. Daily Cardiac

I have to admit, more than most, you deserve being where you are. If there’s a God, you’ll be the last (half) man standing on the property before the state takes it.

112. Daily Cardiac - August 11, 2008

RVM 95:

“Read it. Evaluate it. Critique it. Analyze it. Discard it, or dismiss it. This is the approach you’d take in a “school.”

Forbidding it – that is a cult.”

All schools have their own curricula; if you enrolled in Harvard’s law school you would not be allowed to pick your own official text books.

113. Old Fish in the Sea - August 11, 2008

Cardiac 106:

I would agree with you that the predictions along with a great deal of other nonsense including the sexual escapades, frivolous spending, and attempts to bypass building codes are not, fundamental tenets of the Fellowship approach.

They are however, a reflection of the being of Robert and the FOF. They reflect his tendency to exagerate and jump to conclusions which is prevalent in his teaching.

The sequence, at least when I left, was a fundamental tenet. From my observations, Robert had a reasonably good idea. The Be and the Hold bring attention inward and solidify the feeling of existing. When that is solid the next steps (e.g. Hear and Look) solidify a connection to the outside world. Long be allows for a wordless state of divided attention – essentially a meditative state. The problem, at least from my limited perspective, is that Robert is obsessed with overly aggrandizing even the fundamental tenets. He came up with a meditative method no more effective than other such methods of introducing a state, but pretty soon is was the secret meaning of life and the way to immortality and something that should be practiced all of the time. Something that if not done guaranteed a biological existence.

My feeling now is that the sequence, like many other activities, can have a postive effect but it should be done primarily in solitary situations and not all the time.

It reminds me of a time when I was counting bites of food. I noted that a typical dinner for me was about 15-20 bites. I then attended one of his dinners. Early on he said that 100 attempts to remember ourselves per day was a good start but insufficient. Later in the same dinner he stated that if we were just present after every bite that this would be enough. It was clear to me that he never actually tried what he was talking about or he would have noticed that a meal is not as many bites as we might think. He had an ‘I’ and over aggrandized it without a solid verification of its effectiveness.

The point I am trying to make is that Robert’s judgment in other areas is a reflection of his judgment related to awakening. Remember the 6 pieces of Rhinocerous poop representing the sequence? Where is the sense of scale and reasonableness?

Continue to trust him if you like, but please consider the possibility that trust in Robert may be a less than ideal use of your best energy. At the very least, add your own sense of perspective to whatever he says. He has inefficiently directed so many well meaning efforts for so many years. Whether you decide to stay or leave, your work is your own. Trust yourself. If you ever do leave, you will appreciate the time you spent doing what your own heart feels is best for you.

114. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

111. Daily Cardiac

Once again you show you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. And the fact that “that” doesn’t stop you from spewing pure horse shit is a great promo for your cult.

“Daily Cardiac & FOF”, Be The Least You Can Be.

Prerequisite…only your narcissism and stupidity.

115. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 11, 2008

#111 DC: Come on! You would not be kicked out of Harvard for watching or reading whatever you wanted to. Your reasoning is not well thought out. I’m not even sure what your point is.

116. Ames Gilbert - August 11, 2008

Lauralupa (#44-94 or thereabouts, and others),
Re. David R. Hawkins, author of “Power vs Force”, “The ‘I’ of the Eye’, and several others (including one called “Orthomolecular Psychiatry” with Linus Pauling).

I got the first two of these books about seven years ago, together with associated videos. I had a friend who was into kinesthesiology, and it seemed possible that Hawkins was on to something—maybe. I put some effort into it, and it is evident that I am deeply unworthy to calibrate anything, let alone the truth. My experiments proved fruitless, and I was unable to make any headway using his methods, despite being given some guidance by the kinesthesiologist. I started to explore Dr. Hawkins himself (no, I haven’t met him), and my conclusion was that his ego seems to have bloated out of control, and that he sees himself as a very superior being, and perfectly convinced of his objectivity and rightness.

His scale of energies is superficially interesting, but I couldn’t say it is any more useful to assign a numerical range to them than the Fourth Way assigning a numerical range to “worlds”, i.e., a useful concept, helpful to arranging things intellectually, but in the end not that useful to actually living and loving one’s life. I’m sure that if I were capable of actualizing the claims to be able to ‘dowse the Truth’ of a situation, my life would be changed, but there it is, I can’t.

117. Ill Never Tell - August 11, 2008

99. nosridammus – August 11, 2008:

‘2) Despite their poetically ambiguous expression all his prophesies, without exception, came to pass- unless they didn’t.’

Came to pass, or not, just like a gall stone. Make that 6 gall stones. And, then, remove 4 wisdom teeth.

118. Tina - August 11, 2008

I don’t want to list the names of those expelled, only to wish them well and to let them know that there is a lot of support available from all those who went before them.

I am sure that it must be a huge shock. Leaving the FOF from choice is a very different experience than being kicked out.

Are we responsible for each other? I hope so, whatever the circumstances.
As someone pointed out long ago on this blog, we ARE the center directors, friends, octave leaders, travelling teachers, etc.
IT IS US!!
We are all in this together; in, out or sitting precariously on the fence.

love to all.
t

119. Ames Gilbert - August 11, 2008

Daily Cardiac (#44-21 or thereabouts),
I don’t know who you are and am unlikely to find out. Can you explain to me why this should be the case? I have exercised my freedom to use my real name (and I’ve published my telephone number and e-mail address here on the blog previously). Would you care to explain to us why you do not? I have heard that Girard H. has ‘recommended’ that members of the Fellowship of Friends do not read the blog; is that true? If so, do you feel that not following this recommendation puts you to any disadvantage, particularly spiritually? Are you afraid of consequences from within or without the Fellowship? If you foresee consequences, what would they be? And, what are the advantages to you, personally, for ‘defending’ yourself and the Fellowship? Why do you think that there aren’t more of you willing to take on this task, and openly? Does this connect with Burton’s ideas about ‘B-Influence viruses’?
I’m not trying to ‘dare’ you, I’d just appreciate knowing your thinking on this subject, because it does affect how I dialog with you. I see you as having less freedom than I have, and I’d like to understand why.

On, on, on! I want to point out a very basic blind alley I think you are going down as far as your reasoning goes, in my opinion. You should bear in mind that I joined in 1978, when the Fellowship was openly advertising itself as a Fourth Way based ‘school’, one of whose root premises was, ‘verify, verify, verify’. Although, as has been described previously in detail, there were various shades of verification encouraged right from the beginning, and some actively discouraged, and I adopted those shades for my own as I oriented my self to the groupthink, the idea of verification for oneself was, at least theoretically, predominant.

I look at your post, and am amazed at how unseriously you take the idea of personal verification. Let’s start with the sentence, “That does not mean he knows the outcome or claimed to. I’m surprised no one among you has not thought this out with more reason.”
So I’m going to take you up on your challenge, and use some the powers of reason I’ve been given.

What is implied by your sentence and others associated with it in your previous posts?
C-Influence (whatever that is, but apparently you see it as some external agency or force separate from you or Burton) communicates with Burton (unverifiable; from your point of view, it might be exactly that, or a delusion of Burton’s; neither Ames nor Daily Cardiac cannot truthfully tell which). The message contains two parts; first the actual information, and secondly the directive to pass on that message to the followers (both parts unverifiable). Now, we know the message, if there was one, was incorrect (we have the discrepancy between claims and results to prove that). So, the message may have been correct, but C-Influence changed the course of events, or correct but Burton changed it for his own reasons, or the message may have been deliberately false (we can’t know which of any of these is true). Whatever, Burton provides an explanation; C-Influence did it to humiliate him, personally, Burton (not verifiable).

Daily Cardiac, your explanation, in a nutshell, seems to be—“to test the members faith”. I can’t construe any other meaning from your last sentences (and many others in your previous posts), “But “failed” predictions are another wonderful tool to justify one’s leaving, if one is going in that direction. And in that case I can see how they served a purpose in the school.”

Daily Cardiac, do you see where this is leading? The so-called Creationists claim that the fossil record as studied by paleontologists was created with the rest of the planet a few thousand years ago and is a device for testing the faith of people in the Creator. The whole thing about carbon dating, magnetic reversals, and so on is part of this test. Basically, scientific method and deductive reasoning are a snare of the devil. Please tell me in what way whatsoever your excuses that C-Influence gave Burton incorrect information about the future diverges from these Creationist claims! Because what you are really telling us is that C-Influence is in the business of testing Burton’s and the rest of the members’ faith. And that those who fail the ‘test’ are lost. A far cry from the personal verification that is the bedrock of the Fourth Way.

So far, I’ve gone over just a couple of your sentences; I don’t have the energy for more, but I could work with almost every one at the same length…

Daily Cardiac, it seems fine, by my lights (and why should you care what I think, anyway?) to join a religion, it is fine to be a member of the Church of Robert Burton, it is fine to guide your life by his Revealed Teachings, it is fine to be guided by faith. What I suggest to you is that you acknowledge this, if it is indeed the case, and drop all pretense to the ideas of personal verification. Or, if not, explain to yourself (and I’d be interested, for sure) why what seems to be a random mixture of verification and non-verification can possibly be wholesome, healthy—or useful.

One last question: You say, “no man can predict the future”. Do you believe that what you call “C-Influence” can predict the future, and if so, what is your reason/evidence for such a belief?

120. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

Dear Tina, I feel it may be more apt to say “sitting on a precarious fence”. In fact, if enough people sit on it, it may actually collapse from the weight.
Much love to you

DC
sorry to say, you are boring me to pieces
You make me feel like I am wasting my time
Youl got flannel up ‘n down you
A little trap-door back aroun’ you
An’ some cozy little footies on your mind

121. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

“I started to explore Dr. Hawkins himself (no, I haven’t met him), and my conclusion was that his ego seems to have bloated out of control, and that he sees himself as a very superior being, and perfectly convinced of his objectivity and rightness.”

My God, how unusual for a “teacher” to catch Guru Syndrome. I’m telling you Ames, if someone puts themselves out there as a teacher you can be reasonably sure there’s something seriously fucked up in Denmark. The phone booths eventually think they are “The Way”. And that alone should be a pretty serious indication of assholedness.

122. God Laughing - August 11, 2008

117. Tina Are we responsible for each other? I hope so, whatever the circumstances. As someone pointed out long ago on this blog, we ARE the center directors, friends, octave leaders, travelling teachers, etc.
IT IS US!!
We are all in this together; in, out or sitting precariously on the fence.

Thank you Tina, friendship is the highest form of love

TO THE LUCKY 8

Eight is a lucky number in China.
The number 8 encourages financial security.
The historic Christian Church has traditionally associated the Number 8
with the entrance into the Covenant of God.
The transcendence associated with the Number Eight – recognized by both Jews and Christians – ultimately manifests in the everlasting New Beginning
Number 8 is the most powerful of all numbers.

123. Reality Check - August 11, 2008

At a meeting in 1972 Burton said the following:

Burton: This group will produce three angels, and they will be burned on the cross and will survive.

Q. The others are the chaff?

Burton: They move to another role, if we take Jesus’ words, “Every hair is counted.” Remember, those three I spoke of will be literally and worse burned on the cross.

Can those at that meeting or those that heard of this prediction in 1972 explain why they remained in the Fellowship after hearing this? Why didn’t the words “burned on the cross and will survive” make it exactly clear what level of insanity they were involved with?

124. paulshabram - August 11, 2008

108 Daily C.

You should go back and read more of Bruce’s posts. When he is not present with “horseshit” his posts are pretty profound. The sensitivity is also greatly appreciated here because a lot of us simply get drawn in to easily. I, for one, really look forward to you making a well reasoned, intelligent argument that is actually fact based. So far, not so good. I think Ames and others are disappointed about this as well. I have to remind myself that if I expect little, I won’t be disappointed.

A while back you stated that you were just going to ignore posts like Bruce’s. By mentioning them, of course, you failed before you started.? It does seem to suit you to respond the vitriol rather than some really interesting questions that have been asked. An opportunity is being lost here. Why not do as you say, ignore the vitriol and discuss the real issues.

What every religion needs is a creation mythology. Here is a good question for you to ask our old pal: Burtonism seems to be approaching something with interpreting cave drawings and all. What came before the 44? Was there a time when there were no “Angels”? Where did school come from. C Influence ought to know right?

125. lauralupa - August 11, 2008

Ames, much respect for your consistent, intelligent and patient efforts to restore the faculty of reason of these poor lost souls.
You are a true hero of mine.

O Universal Mother!
We are thy little children, bless us and
Dismantle the mountain of ego from our attitude.
Terminate the spiral of greed from our thoughts.
Crush the matrix of envy from our unlimited desires.
Quench the fire of anger in our complex behaviors.
Transform lust into true love for attaining happiness.
Annihilate the structure of delusion from our life.

O Universal Mother!
Create fresh ideas for innovation in our minds.
Glorify true feeling of love in our hearts.
Develop a purposeful vision in our Spirit.
Amplify every signal of happiness in our life.

O Universal Mother!
Evolve compassion and kindness in our attitude.
Extend true love and lovely wishes in our hearts.
Expand our thinking pattern toward all directions.
Globalize the spirit of humanity in our world.

O Universal Mother!
We are thy little children.
Spread thou eternal bless everywhere for everyone and
Fuse all our thoughts for construction of creative ideas.
Harmonize our every thought, words and actions.
Integrate our minds, hearts and spirits.
and unify our souls with infinite soul.
For attaining final journey of all human being – NIRVANA.

Jai Mata Di ÖÖ. Jai Ma Durga

126. Rear View Mirror - August 11, 2008

I wrote: “Read it. Evaluate it. Critique it. Analyze it. Discard it, or dismiss it. This is the approach you’d take in a “school.” Forbidding it – that is a cult.”

DC replied: “All schools have their own curricula; if you enrolled in Harvard’s law school you would not be allowed to pick your own official text books.”

Comparing the FOF to Harvard Law… Argh. This person is relentless.

(But it’s interesting. Makes me wonder if I can transfer some FOF credits to Harvard.)

A better analogy might be a class in metaphysical or religious studies. Imagine a student getting booted out of Harvard because they wrote a paper on Hawkins. Imagine being threatened with expulsion because they tried making arrangements to have Hawkins speak before class.

Now that might be a good comparison to what happens in the FOF. But comparing Harvard to the FOF? I have to imagine all of you with Ivy League degrees are a bit amused and/or annoyed by such an idiotic analogy.

127. Ames Gilbert - August 11, 2008

Tina (#44-117 or thereabouts),
As one who got the boot myself, I can really empathize with them. It was a big shock even though I knew I was ‘asking for it’ (stimulating phagic reactions from the ‘jealous god’, Burton) by my questions and actions, innocuous though they were. Are you able to invite them to join the GF? If so, tell them they are welcome to contact me through my page, if it would help to talk things over. I was helped by others who went before, and deeply appreciate it. BTW, I live in Grass Valley.

128. brucelevy - August 11, 2008

“A while back you stated that you were just going to ignore posts like Bruce’s. By mentioning them, of course, you failed before you started.?”

And that’s one reason I can say that it’s FatBoy. He’s was called on that numerous times. Come on, tell us your real name, coward? RB is sure to reward you for your thoughtful devotion.

129. veronicapoe - August 12, 2008

Of course we must not forget the prophecies that came true. Like the following, published in the Renaissance Journal c. 1984:

“Novel and appalling experiences await us.”

130. Daily Cardiac - August 12, 2008

WULSWU 114:

“#111 DC: Come on! You would not be kicked out of Harvard for watching or reading whatever you wanted to. Your reasoning is not well thought out. I’m not even sure what your point is.”

Well, I think the point is fairly straight forward. If every student in the FoF is allowed to introduce what’s being highlighted or taught it would be pretty chaotic.That goes for Harvard too. As far as Harvard not “kicking out” anyone for that they wouldn’t have to; if someone did not put the official curricula before their own preferences they would probably wash out.

131. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

129. Daily Cardiac

You’re unbelievable. You just pluck this shit from the air. Your immaturity is astounding. Are you the child that refuses to grow up?

132. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

129. Daily Cardiac

They’re not doing you any favors in the FOF, or else they’d be smacking you in the head occasionally.

133. elena - August 12, 2008

This argument from Daily Cardiac about the analogies between the Fellowship “School” and a University was very common in Girard so it must have become one of the habitual tapes these days. When I’d ask him about the fact that no one else but he and Robert could speak he’d say, “Well, if you were in a lecture in a Universtity you would not be allowed to speak, only the teachers speak” But we’ve gone over the flaws of this subject too many times to insist on them.

Thank you My4bits for your excellent post telling the facts. I mentioned your post to Mr. McCarthy and he would much appreciate it if you would care to contact him and anyone else who wishes to say something. He does not have to quote anyone’s name who doesn’t want to be quoted, he is simply confronting what others here have told him. His e-mail is: rmccarthy@appealdemocrat.com

Thank you all for your posts, it is good to hear your voices.

134. elena - August 12, 2008

Ryan McCarthy’s phone number is 530 749 4707

135. whalerider - August 12, 2008

Cardiac arrest:

“That goes for Harvard too.”

I think you have pushed the university analogy too far, Girard. Unversity professors get booted out for fucking their sudents. You’d be better off using the church analogy and Robert as the spiritual authority. But that would be a lie, too.

The FOF is a cult, Robert is a cult leader and you are a follower.

Deal with it.

136. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 12, 2008

#129 DC: I left the FOF. I have no interest in rejoining. You continually justify what’s going on within the group. I’m not sure why you’re on this blog but I’m not really interesting in playing a tit for tat game with you. The name you chose suggests you’re dissatisfied with being in the FOF but your words do not.

137. Reality Check - August 12, 2008

Please excuse a momentary overflow of voodoo psychic activity into the dazzling starlight settling along the sunset boulevard:

When it is forgotten that what we are usually experiencing, what we typically mistake for life, is the activity of lower centers, the functioning of organic machines designed to react and interact with only a certain level of perceptions, then there is no alternative but deafening sleep. All the romantic and poetic spiritualism in the cosmos will not awaken a man that does not know or has forgotten that nearly all the inner activity is the product of nerves, cells, chemicals and electrical impulses. The Fourth Way system begins where awakening begins, it begins where an observer intentionally witnesses the mechanism of the lower centers reacting and operating. The attention when turned in on itself creates a psychological separation between the will of the observer and the identification of the lower centers. This point of separation is ‘our’ religion. Try to preach that kind of testimonial to the receptivity of men one, two and three and it becomes clear that this idea goes against the grain of the general personality. Obviously our science, our Way, is only going to be accessible to a few. Most are going to interpret this view of existence as cold and somber, but of course a moment of the third state where a man recognizes his constant sleep and the possibility of waking up into a state of consciousness involves profound but subtle emotion and more of an increase in psychological stimulation than is possible through any sort of faith, meditation, prayer or philosophy. The realization of sleep and the reality of awakening are experienced as a kind of quiet electricity that momentarily ignites the Self. A moment of self-consciousness when the possibilities of the astral body become a reality is the only glimmer of real life men can ever experience. All the other motivations that sweep through life and propel populations into various actions and movements are literally nothing more than listless and insensible reactive activity. What is difficult to understand without glimpses of consciousness is that identification, fervent, immoderate emotion, is psychological sleep. Typically men never feel so real than when they are experiencing and expressing intensely energetic negative emotions. Try to explain to them at that moment that they are “asleep” and they will react violently. Transforming the reactions of the lower centers into impartial observation and self-consciousness is will, control, self-remembering. A man that transforms the emotion and impulses produced from the activity of the lower centers into a moment of inner control and self-consciousness has discovered the ultimate secret of life.

I will try to keep this kind of expressive outburst to a minimum, these two impressions imposed themselves onto my notice and I felt the urge to share.

138. Vena - August 12, 2008

“Well, I think the point is fairly straight forward. If every student in the FoF is allowed to introduce what’s being highlighted or taught it would be pretty chaotic.That goes for Harvard too. As far as Harvard not “kicking out” anyone for that they wouldn’t have to; if someone did not put the official curricula before their own preferences they would probably wash out.”

Daily Cardiac – This is a very unintelligent comment.

139. My4bits - August 12, 2008

Elena, post 132.

My post #63 was a cautionary tale. I’ve said my piece and do not intend to discuss the subject any further.

140. Old Fish in the Sea - August 12, 2008

One of the main differences between Harvard (or any major university) and the Fellowship is that appropriate personal inventiveness is rewarded in Universities. I can think of a few notable exceptions but in general Robert discouraged innovation. I remember one talented student, well educated in composition who composed and performed his own work which was applauded by many of our best musicians. It was certainly a courageous first step by a talented individual. Robert asked him not to compose again. There are other similar examples.

At least one Ivy league school requires a thesis from every student with orignal research. You have to choose your own topic, find your own books and devise your own experiments. After writing your thesis you must verbally support your conclusions before a number of experts. It is required that it be something that no one had ever done before and you cannot graduate until you have completed this thesis.

It is possible to balance teaching a curriculum with innovation. I believe our best Universities try to do this. I think the Fellowship would have been very intestesting if we had been encouraged to do some of our own research, report on it, and receive honest feedback.

Robert felt that inventiveness fed false personality. I believe it may be appropriate for a while to follow instruction without any personal inventiveness, but I am not convinced that it should be that way for very long.

Do you think personal innovation feeds false personality or does it feed submissiveness? Can you think of any great man that was not innovative? Do you want to stifle innovation in yourself for your whole life? Does it make sense that innovation should be stifled until you become conscious?

Reading angle cards is an extreme example of stifling individual contribution.

141. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

136. Reality Check

Isn’t that projectile vomiting?

142. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

136. Reality Check

That should get you a pat on the head from the Queen.

143. whalerider - August 12, 2008

Reality Test:

“The Fourth Way system..”

Need I remind you that Ouspensky presented these ideas as “fragments of an unknown teaching”? As far as I remember, there was no mention of the fourth way as a system. It is a way, one of many. (For Robert, it’s my way or the highway.)

Would you be willing to consider that the non-expression of negative emotions is something a person would do only as a temporary exercise to establish self-awareness? I mean, who wants to be a conscious control freak? The part you don’t get is once self-awareness is established and cruising speed is reached, you can unbuckle your safety belt and are free to move about the cabin. That’s what a virtuoso mystic does, untethered by dogma.

If you were a positive type, you could take on an exercise to not express positive emotions, too, and create the same effect. But aside from being in New York City, you wouldn’t be so invisible any where else, and you wouldn’t have any glassy-eyed followers joining your cult.

Both Ouspensky and Gurdjieff never mentioned the non-expression of critical thought as the FOF does in its indoctrination. That’s what makes the FOF a cult.

And don’t ‘try’ to keep your outbursts to a minimum. Just do it, if that is your aim, otherwise you are just paying lip service. It’s healthy to follow your urges, though, within reason of course.

By the way, the secret to life is: there is no secret.

144. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

To a few pertinent recent posters

Solar types (certainly for me within the FOF, when I was a ‘member’) have ‘inklings’ about the reality of a situation but, because of the fact that they cannot ‘kick life-work, corporate or cult ass’, usually the expression of those inklings are dismissed by the other, more overbearing, types within an organisation. Others have given angles to the effect and one blogger has even mentioned their own ‘inkling’, but I feel DC is either GH himself and has brought on board Old Fish in the Sea or that OFITS is GH and primed DC, before coming on board himself, as would fit with the dissertative, churned out drivel in post # 139. Again, other bloggers have requested them to unveil their real names and most of those bloggers (Ames, Elena and myself, certainly) use their own names while blogging and have given some other contact details, such as telephone number, mailing addresses and email addresses, to ensure free-flow of communication. As for me, I have no fear of retaliation – William Shakespeare and Walt Whitman are working personally with me (WS has been since my 13th year of age on this planet) and I am ‘known’ by the police – i.e. a few Mental Health Section 136’s (police holding sections in a place of safety) get you a ‘duty of care’ record with them. To conclude, there is a reason for all we have experienced in our lives and are experiencing NOW and will do in the future. DC and OFITS – YOU DO NOT DIE THE DOUBLE DEATH BECAUSE YOU HAVE EXITED THE FOF!

145. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

Sorry Old Fish in the Sea – I confused you with Reality Check. Got up a bit ‘dopey’ this morning…..Nigel.

146. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

136 Reality Check

Do you honestly think that ‘being present’ to a fruity Merlot whilst gazing out over the Galleria is REALITY?…..Nigel.

147. Old Fish in the Sea - August 12, 2008

Nigel,

I don’t have any good reason for using a false name but I have always been a little shy. Perhaps this explains why I feel a little more comfortable this way even though I know most people know who I am. Having a false name reminds me of pulling up the covers at night – it does not really protect me but it makes me feel a little more cozy.

Many of the bloggers here know who I am and how to reach me. I don’t think we ever met, so my name might not help you much. One person that I am not is GH (though we share the same last initial) and I think if you read my posts you will sense that I am no longer in the FOF.

Best wishes to you,
William

148. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

146 Old Fish in the Sea

I hate my stupidity in getting people mixed up. Thank you for your post and I feel a bond has been made. Yours gratefully…..Nigel.

149. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

A little passage to deter dualism on the blog:-

From ‘Dibs – In Search of Self’, by Virginia M. Axline.

“Dibs had had his dark moments and had lived for a while in the shadows of life. But he had had the opportunity to move out of those dark moments and discover for himself that he could cope with the shadows and sunshine in his life.

Perhaps there is more understanding and beauty in life when the glaring sunlight is softened by the patterns of shadows. Perhaps there is more depth in a relationship that has weathered some storms. Experience that never dissapoints or saddens or stirs up feelings is a bland experience with little challenge or variation in colour. Perhaps when we experience confidence and faith and hope that we see materialize before our eyes this builds up within us a feeling of inner strength, courage and security.

We are all personalities that grow and develop as a result of all our experiences, relationships, thoughts and emotions. We are the sum total of all the parts that go into the making of a life.”

150. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

Old Fish in the Sea

And I meant post #136 was drivel, not your post #139…..Nigel.

151. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

124 lauralupa

The poetical extract was beautiful! I postulated to myself some while back that the ‘Universe is female because she carries us’…..Nigel.

152. paulshabram - August 12, 2008

Reality Check 136

A reality check for you: Let’s examine your outburst for cogent useful thought.

“When it is forgotten that what we are usually experiencing, what we typically mistake for life, is the activity of lower centers, the functioning of organic machines designed to react and interact with only a certain level of perceptions, then there is no alternative but deafening sleep.”

-It sounds good, t has a good cadence to the ear, but it’s a non-sequitur. It is true, IMO, that it is an organic machine, but it was not designed, it evolved; it is still evolving. Have you tested the multiple underlying assumptions in this statement? Or do you just take somebody’s word for it? It does not follow that the because it’s a machine, in all it’s amazing evolved beauty, that it is limited in any way. The only “no alternative” is death, and we are lucky if we can delay it long enough to really live our last moment and die well.-

“All the romantic and poetic spiritualism in the cosmos will not awaken a man that does not know or has forgotten that nearly all the inner activity is the product of nerves, cells, chemicals and electrical impulses.”

-Is man really asleep? In general, no. But there are those that have chosen to follow the vein of fool’s gold into a spiritual and even physical coma. What did the “conscious” cave dweller of 30,000 years ago know of chemicals and electrical impulses? What do you know about them? If you follow the trail laid down by todays science you are taken to true mystery and beauty. You are taken to the first instant of time beyond which exceeds our capacity to comprehend. This is not the work of sleep.-

“The Fourth Way system begins where awakening begins, it begins where an observer intentionally witnesses the mechanism of the lower centers reacting and operating. The attention when turned in on itself creates a psychological separation between the will of the observer and the identification of the lower centers.”

-The fourth Way does no such thing. The Fourth Way is a system, a model, a way of explaining some practices that can be very useful. The weak character leads himself into temptation, to be arrogant, feel superior, and discard those values that make humans different from the the rest of life. It is simply self hypnosis and self indulgence. “Higher Centers” are not activated by Self Remembering, or “Being Present”. Such activities can lead to the development of an “observer” and even an “Observer” of the Observer. An objective state is just that, objective until one succumbs to the sense of accomplishment and superiority. The Observer has no will; it cannot have will and still be an observer. What is described as “Higher Centers” by Ouspesnky, Collin, Horn, Robert, and many others is consistent. Higher Centers ARE the chemical reactions you claim to be the lower centers bought on by tricking your body into inappropriate reactios.-

“This point of separation is ‘our’ religion. Try to preach that kind of testimonial to the receptivity of men one, two and three and it becomes clear that this idea goes against the grain of the general personality.”
– Another non-sequitur. Then no one would join you.

The separation you speak of is not to awaken you. it is to separate you from your freedom of will and choice. From your livelihood and from you human dignity. It is for taking from you that which is most precious, for Greed’s sake and for Power’s sake, but not for the sake of your soul.-

“Obviously our science, our Way, is only going to be accessible to a few.”
-Why is this so? It does not follow. making it “accessible to a few” feed the sense of being selected, of being superior.-

“Most are going to interpret this view of existence as cold and somber, but of course a moment of the third state where a man recognizes his constant sleep and the possibility of waking up into a state of consciousness involves profound but subtle emotion and more of an increase in psychological stimulation than is possible through any sort of faith, meditation, prayer or philosophy.”

-You do not know that “most are going to interpret this view as cols and somber…” You take this on faith and faith alone. You do not and cannot verify any of the above other than by shear belief. Your argument argues with itself, and therefore rules itself out as anything useful for awakening.-

“The realization of sleep and the reality of awakening are experienced as a kind of quiet electricity that momentarily ignites the Self. A moment of self-consciousness when the possibilities of the astral body become a reality is the only glimmer of real life men can ever experience.”

-I was in the hospital once receiving a morphine drip and I felt the same way as if it was a reality. I felt as if I could reach into the minds of people fifty miles away. I could see their futures, their motivations, their desires, their weaknesses, their strengths. But it was just a drug much like the one you are giving yourself. Are you addicted? Are you addicted to feeling safe and superior? Are you imagining you can be a “Higher Being” without an atom of the humility and responsibility that “self-consciousness” entails?-

“All the other motivations that sweep through life and propel populations into various actions and movements are literally nothing more than listless and insensible reactive activity. What is difficult to understand without glimpses of consciousness is that identification, fervent, immoderate emotion, is psychological sleep.”

-The drug you imbibe in is driving you toward what you fear the most; you fear being seen as ordinary. You own motivations are beyond your own vision, yet you presume to make the statement above. What you find difficult to understand is that you are describing yourself.-

“Typically men never feel so real than when they are experiencing and expressing intensely energetic negative emotions. Try to explain to them at that moment that they are “asleep” and they will react violently.”

-I have studied humans and myself for most of my life. I never felt so inhuman and so unreal as when I was enraged. After decades of observation I can tell you I do not know how anyone will react to a normal greeting, let alone explaining to someone they are asleep. Why would you do this except to bury your insecurities in viewing yourself above the rest.-

“Transforming the reactions of the lower centers into impartial observation and self-consciousness is will, control, self-remembering. A man that transforms the emotion and impulses produced from the activity of the lower centers into a moment of inner control and self-consciousness has discovered the ultimate secret of life.”
-“How have you created a division of yourself?” You have equated the exercise of self-remembering, the development of impartial observation, and control with Will. If you had practiced these things at all you would know that they are different, even orthogonal. Impartial observation is not will, Self Remembering is not impartial, nor is it self-consciousness.

Control of negative emotions does not mean elimination of negative emotions. It means that through observation we learn which negative emotions belong in the moment and which do not. Which positive emotions belong and which do not. We do not stop breathing just because the air is not perfumed. You do not control something by stifling it an burying it where you can’t see it. You control it when you can make good use of it.

If humility is a negative emotion, then you surely have eliminated it.-

Please keep posting and bring Reality with you next time.

153. Reality Check - August 12, 2008

Grasshopper lied: “Need I remind you that Ouspensky presented these ideas as “fragments of an unknown teaching”? As far as I remember, there was no mention of the fourth way as a system.”

The Fourth Way By P. D. Ouspensky

Chapter one

Page 1

What the system is about–Study of psychology

CHAPTER II

Why this system cannot be popular–Prison

Difference between this system and others

CHAPTER IV

Different divisions used in the system-Essence and personality

CHAPTER VI

Understanding as the chief requirement in this system-relativity of understanding

Development of conscience as aim of the system-Seeing contradictions

CHAPTER VII

False personality distorts the ideas of the system- Chef feature or features

CHAPTER XII

Necessity to distinguish more important from less important ideas of the system-Limitations of being

CHAPTER XIII

Impossibility of studying the system from an utilitarian point of view

CHAPTER XV

The system and how it is taught-Different scales

Relation of the system to Christianity-To die and to be born

CHAPTER XVI

The idea of recurrence and the system-Parallel time

154. Ellen - August 12, 2008

117, Tina
“Are we responsible for each other? I hope so, whatever the circumstances. As someone pointed out long ago on this blog, we ARE the center directors, friends, octave leaders, travelling teachers, etc. IT IS US!! We are all in this together; in, out or sitting precariously on the fence. ”

I hear you. My husband and I were listening to the Stones the other day. Various recording of “Sympathy for the Devil”, to listen for Mick Taylor’s guitar contributions in the 60’s.

I was struck time and time again by the line “I shouted out, ‘Who killed the Kennedys’, when after all, it was you and me.” And I thought to myself, “Who f__ked all of Robert’s boys, when after all, it was you and me”. Yeah, we are responsible for one another, whether we wish to acknowledge it or not. And to me, at this point in my “evolution”, that is what being more awake really means. No need to get fancy-pantsy about centers, consciousness and electricity.

And I’m not referring to mea culpa types of emotions either, because even that is another kind of buffer. Just pure acceptance, down to the tippy-toes and up to every hair’s fiber of “spiritual aspiration”. ‘Cause since we are debating here with Reality Check about the nature of human sleep, I’d weigh in saying it is the wish to not see things for what they truly are. Imagination, pure and simple. Not the music that plays in your head that you can’t turn off, or the turning of the wheel every three seconds. It’s much, much deeper than that. It’s who you think you are, but aren’t. It’s who you think Robert is, but isn’t. It’s what you think the Fellowship is, but isn’t.

And it all begins and ends at home. “And all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well, when the toungues of flame are in-folded into the crowned knot of fire and the fire and the rose are one.” (T.S.Eliot)

155. Reality Check - August 12, 2008

136. Reality Check – August 12, 2008

Someone sent me a link to this paragraph and when I began to routinely read it and argue a bit with the more insistent statements I suddenly had to laugh because I realized I had written it myself a few years ago.

156. Ellen - August 12, 2008

Reality Check,

Well, if you are laughing at your own contradictions, welcome to the club.

I found this for you from Rodney Collin, ToCI:
“But at bottom, it is human sleep and sleep only – the wish not to see things as they are – which makes men ignore the clear warnings of corruption before its work begins.”

157. fofblogmoderator - August 12, 2008

#85 is newly moderated

158. Associated Press - August 12, 2008

Daily Cardiac =
Daily Heartache =
Daily Heartbreak

Come on folks give
Daily Cardiac some heart.

159. Wouldnt You Like To Know - August 12, 2008

140. Old Fish in the Sea – August 12, 2008:

‘One of the main differences between Harvard (or any major university) and the Fellowship is that appropriate personal inventiveness is rewarded in Universities. I can think of a few notable exceptions but in general Robert discouraged innovation. I remember one talented student, well educated in composition who composed and performed his own work which was applauded by many of our best musicians. It was certainly a courageous first step by a talented individual. Robert asked him not to compose again. There are other similar examples. . .

Do you want to stifle innovation in yourself for your whole life? Does it make sense that innovation should be stifled until you become conscious?

Reading angle cards is an extreme example of stifling individual contribution.’

97. Wouldnt You Like To Know – August 11, 2008:

‘People in the Burton Church do not realize just how stifled they are. The creative juices are, literally, sucked out of them.’

Fellatio participation is innovative and creative, no? (Said tongue in cheek (or, could be something else in cheek).)

160. will coyote - August 12, 2008

I am starting to read the blog from the beginning., (129) Philip Says
February 19, 2007 at 12:10 am (But i see with Paulsabrham 159 and Reality chek we are still there…)That he tried to work hard, but “After a few years of this, the day came when I took a look at my progress toward awakening and once again felt disappointed. States? yes. Understandings? yes. Awakening? still far away “ SO THE SISTEM DOESNT’ WORKS. But some post before one people say that Ouspensky said that the sistem can promise you to show what you really are. I think that Fof doesn’t teach real 4° way. Because do you have to make the right effort. I am right sure that Buddha’s 8 fold way or middle way and G’urdjieffs teaching is the same-
The right effort is put attention on the “lower self” to see how and maybe why it does so an so. Do you have to love the machine (Gold). The exercise to self-remembering is an exercise and remembering that do you have not real I (but many “I”). (G. in America says that people that just take one of his things , like the English with selfremembering are ready for mental home: Life is real only …)To see this many times and about continuosly can became ’ The terror of the situation:” that is the avakening of obiective coscience (is not self-pity that does not aknowlodge what is now, but want
self power). It is a real emotion, also with pain, but that became real WILL . The will to exprime the real Self , (or vacuum ,this is just words) . The pain to loose Presence (God) became energy to search (God) and osserve myself.

161. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

152 paulshabram

Some stimulating areas that I can, hopefully, respond to………………..

For me ‘sleep’, as expressed by the system, means, as Shakespeare put it -‘Covering his glassy Essence with Apeish Acts’ (this is paraphrased, but I think it is in ‘All’s well that ends well’). When we see Modern Society’s greed and only working (the most of them) for acquiring wealth, possessions, status and postions of power, then this would really ‘Muddy the Crystal Clarity of Being Oneself’ i.e. not being asleep. Is the Fellowship any different in this regard? This is open to debate (folks – ‘Please welcome in Reality Check and his brown-tongeing friend, Daily Cardiac’). I could actually see FOF members falling into the trap of what they called The Work actually becoming The Afford. This is a far cry form Christ’s “Unless ye become as little children, ye shall in no way enter the Kingdom of Heaven” and in another place “Behold, the Kingdom of Heaven is within you!”. I never found REB to be welcomingly innocent (I actually found his ‘fissog’ to be of a foreboding and unsympathetic nature) and, now the ‘cards are on the table for all to see’, it is clear that he is a Twisted Tyrant and in no way worthy of Heavenly Virtues.

Paul – you mentioned the ‘morphine trip’ – my Dopamine Floods may lead to delusions of grandeur, but there is also a Connected Delight in the Universe which accompanies this. When this occurs, we can share knowledge with all our fellow humans (and not just adults – children react beautifully positively to quietly told personal truths). You have probably realized that these floods are occuring at this time – a few days ago up until now – but there is no need for alarm -the controlling factors are in place and there are no huge physical logostic impossibilities with which I have to contend. Thank you, Paul.

“You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here: and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should” ‘Desiderata’ – Ehrmann.

162. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

153 Reality Check

The Fourth Way by P D Ouspensky

Chapter VII – False Personality distorts the ideas of the System

“Et tu, Brute?” (Julius Caesar, by William Shakespeare)

“Read and inwardly digest”…..Kathleen Duncan Wallace (my mother’s maiden name)…..Nigel

163. lauralupa - August 12, 2008

this is a non sequitur, but I know that there are John Lennon fans hanging around the blog…
just for your enjoyment!

164. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

152 paulshabram

Just out of interest, I went right to the very start of the ‘Esoteric Sheik’ and found, not only a description of his ‘prospective student meeting’, but also some very salient blogs, way before I had discovered the site. A quote struck me as pertinent to our dialogue:- “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Christ)…..N.

165. Innernaut - August 12, 2008

137 “Reality Check”

” Typically men never feel so real than when they are experiencing and expressing intensely energetic negative emotions. Try to explain to them at that moment that they are “asleep” and they will react violently.

Try explaining to a hard-core believer in the 4th Way that they are simply practicing another form of religion based on faith and desire, and they will react even more violently. Or have you seen the “astral body” you so confidently write about?

Steve, I believe Greg has already hacked the blog. Pavel said it’s a full-time job keeping him out.

He also wrote:

“I will try to keep this kind of expressive outburst to a minimum, these two impressions imposed themselves onto my notice and I felt the urge to share.”

Here we see Greg’s trademark run-on sentence. Long ago, he wrote something almost identical to this, which accompanied some of his 4th way wisdom. Of course, his “expression of negativity” soon got so out of hand — so far beyond anything expressed by the sleeping masses he was preaching to — that he was banned.

I could be wrong. But I’m not.

166. whalerider - August 12, 2008

Reality test:
Need I remind you that I stated, “as far as I remember”? You took the bait, missed my point, called me a liar, and revealed yourself, you fourth way taliban zealot.

So who is the grasshopper?

167. whalerider - August 12, 2008

brucelevy:
Regarding having the balls to use your own name on the blog…I wanted to address your point to Cardiac, because I resemble that remark, so to speak.

Have you ever read the book “Blink” by Maxwell Caldwell? I highly recommend it. In it there is the following account of a true story which I will paraphrase.

There was a certain orchestra in Europe, I believe, that needed a new French Horn player or something like that. But the conductor’s son was a pretty good horn player and going to audition. He was considered an easy shoe in. Well, the judges wanted to be fair, so they made everyone audition behind a screen. Lo and behold, the son didn’t get picked, and the person who got picked happened to be a woman. Everyone was astounded! This was unheard of. Never before had a woman broken that gender boundary; all the French Horn players up to that point had always been men. They figured it was a fluke or there must have been some mistake. So they repeated the audition and she won again. At the end, she got hired on the basis of her ability, not her appearance.

Sometimes a little masquerade is a useful ruse because we are only human and think in frames.

Now I realize that the blog is not an audition for anything, and those who do use their real names here, especially ex-members like you and Ames and Sharon and Joseph and Elena and Ellen and Vena and Tina and Nigel and Paul and even Walter, are indeed being conscientious and to be commended for your bravery to stand up for the truth and for what you believe in. I admire you for all that. And at the same time, if a current member did use their real name here, they run the risk of being booted out of the FOF before they are ready to leave on their own volition. That strengthens the FOF fear tactics. For myself, I am glad that I walked out on my own two feet rather than being dumped on my ass.

So I support anyone who posts here under any name they choose. Their true colors will shine through. Right, Innernaut?

168. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

164. Innernaut

My thoughts exactly.

169. veronicapoe - August 12, 2008

166/whalerider

Er… Malcolm Gladwell wrote Blink

170. Reality Check - August 12, 2008
171. fofblogmoderator - August 12, 2008

It does appear that Greg is back (Reality Check- see post #169). I’m thinking of keeping him off the site. If everyone (the daily contributors) feels this is the right move, then I’ll ban him. My recollection is that Greg builds up momentum and becomes more and more uncivil and I’d rather stop it sooner than later. Any thoughts?

172. Opus 111 - August 12, 2008

#170

Hard to know for sure whether this is Greg or not, although I would agree that it is very likely.

On a blog, who people are (especially here, most are anonymous) is rather irrelevant. It is what they say that matters most. As long as “Reality Check” keeps his her “drivel” to an apology of the 4th Way, I could care less. If and when it comes to the vicious, personal and disturbing attacks of the past, then you know what to do. You can put his/her name to the “needs to be moderated at all times” list, if you wish.

I guess I am always a bit concerned about silencing what the majority would rather not hear. That is the place whence we come, after all.

173. Reality Check - August 12, 2008

By way of mounting a defense I can only remind the other contributors of the really good music I bring to their attention…?

174. Vena - August 12, 2008

Re the recent expulsions:

Pretty soon there will only be the hard core religious zealots left and that is when a cult becomes dangerous.

175. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

171. Opus 111

Obviously Greg. Jesus.

176. paulshabram - August 12, 2008

173. Vena

The danger is in the new leadership. The sex for voucher episode shows a clear criminal tendency. When the resources of the cult changes to serve these guys it coulkd get nasty. At some point they may even throw out the Queen to slake their own thirst.

177. veronicapoe - August 12, 2008

draco, your vignette (tr. from the Russian) is very vivid and even though invented might as well be spot on!

178. paulshabram - August 12, 2008

161 Nigel

“You have probably realized that these floods are occuring at this time – a few days ago up until now – but there is no need for alarm -the controlling factors are in place and there are no huge physical logostic impossibilities with which I have to contend. ”

Yeah, I did. I noticed several days ago you were on the blog nearly 24 hrs a day. If it were not for the grief it causes you these manic rifs would be pretty interesting to listen to. Have a good ride and be careful.

179. Mick Danger - August 12, 2008

(170) Blogmeister (171) Opus 111
I agree with sooner rather than later, he’s been warned, banned, warned, banned ad nauseum.
It’s got nothing to do with silencing, it just has no redeeming virtue and no entertainment value.
You can ignore bat-shit crazy but it still stinks.

180. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 12, 2008

Looks like Reality Check is using the Appeal-Democrat blog as his new home.

181. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

179. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup

Anything for an audience, and followers.

182. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 12, 2008

He (Reality Check) seems to like tearing up Ellen’s blogging presently. Just follow the thread of 169 if interested.

183. Reality Check - August 12, 2008

178. Mick Danger – August 12, 2008
(170) Blogmeister (171) Opus 111

I agree with sooner rather than later, he’s been warned, banned, warned, banned ad nauseum.
It’s got nothing to do with silencing, it just has no redeeming virtue and no entertainment value.
You can ignore bat-shit crazy but it still stinks.

****

I would remind the other contributors that Mick here is the only blog member that has ever suggested murder and yet no ban and hardly even a complaint.

What is that others here do not like about my harsh replies to those that say something unkind to me is that I stab them exactly in the most sensitive truth about themselves. It is the element of truth in my criticism that so offends the enlightened escapees from the intimate tutoring of Mr. Burton. For example let’s say that I call someone a cunt, well I doubt I was the first one to make such an observation about some effeminate passive-aggressive male or over-aggressive female. Though the word is jarring it does exactly relay a certain psychological propensity that some people exhibit otherwise it would not have been invented by the genius of those inarticulate observers of human kind.

184. brucelevy - August 12, 2008

Really, just get rid of this fucker, again.

185. Reality Check - August 12, 2008

183. brucelevy – August 12, 2008

Really, just get rid of this fucker, again.

****

See what I mean?

186. paulshabram - August 12, 2008

Steve,
That’s a clear admission (182). the sooner the better. Please do not delete these Reality Check posts so we can have a reference back to the writing style.

187. Vena - August 12, 2008

Steve,
I hope we do not have to go through another episode of the deranged ravings of Greg. It will only escalate into vicious tirades.

188. Reality Check - August 12, 2008

186. Vena – August 12, 2008

Steve,
I hope we do not have to go through another episode of the deranged ravings of Greg. It will only escalate into vicious tirades.

****

There are lots of people on this blog saying all kinds of flat out crazy stuff, they are easy to ignore because what they say carries no weight.

You can’t ignore me because when I say something it carries meaning. You can’t ignore me because I say things that have some truth in them and since you can’t ignore what I say like you do with the other crazy rambling and insulting bloggers you work to censor me, to shut me up. How exactly are you any different than the Fellowship of Friends? Vena of the blog has the Fellowship mentality but by happenchance speaks on the other side of the argument, but exactly as pinched minded as the FOF about those that don’t share her sense of reality.

189. Daily Cardiac - August 12, 2008

Ames 118:

“I don’t know who you are and am unlikely to find out. Can you explain to me why this should be the case? I have exercised my freedom to use my real name (and I’ve published my telephone number and e-mail address here on the blog previously). Would you care to explain to us why you do not?

You may have noticed the amount of anger, even hatred, expressed towards Robert Burton/FoF on this site. A lot of that gets transferred to people like me when I post. It would be an undue risk on my part to give out my identity to many anonymous ex-students and who knows who else reading this blog. I would be a sitting duck for any kind of mischief that would seem amusing to the extreme faction on the blog.
When you post from the heart you are seen as a hero on the blog. When I post from the heart I am seen as a zombie at best, sociopath more than likely. If you were in that situation I rather doubt you would act any different about it than I do. (Actually I don’t believe ex-students think we are as sorry as the names they call us. The main purpose of the name calling and personal attacks is to inflict emotion pain. Whether the names or the attacks are true or not is not the point for the person calling names. The point is to do whatever is necessary to inflict emotional pain.)

But I think the anonymous issue is a good question for you to ask to all of the anonymous ex-members. What would their reasons be to remain anonymous?

“I have heard that Girard H. has ‘recommended’ that members of the Fellowship of Friends do not read the blog; is that true? If so, do you feel that not following this recommendation puts you to any disadvantage, particularly spiritually? Are you afraid of consequences from within or without the Fellowship? If you foresee consequences, what would they be? And, what are the advantages to you, personally, for ‘defending’ yourself and the Fellowship? Why do you think that there aren’t more of you willing to take on this task, and openly? Does this connect with Burton’s ideas about ‘B-Influence viruses’?”

Girard, in an e-mail letter to other students mentioned that he did not intend to read the blog as he considered it not the best use of his time. I don’t know if he actually recommended to others not to read it. I think he posed the question to others to think about their aim for wanting to read it. His e-mail was posted on the blog in the early pages, by the way.

Being “afraid” of the consequences for posting on the blog in not quite the correct way to put it. I don’t think I would be fined or asked to leave. If Robert found out he might ask me to use my time differently, or he might not give any feedback.

As far as “defending” the FoF or myself; I don’t see that I’m defending my position anymore than ex-members are defending theirs. I’m simply my telling my story, just as you are.

“Do you feel that not following this recommendation puts you to any disadvantage, particularly spiritually? Are you afraid of consequences from within or without the Fellowship? If you foresee consequences, what would they be? And, what are the advantages to you, personally, for ‘defending’ yourself and the Fellowship?

I think Girard made some valid points in his letter. Even though I am here I would not recommend it to others. For some people I don’t think it would be useful to expose themselves to the amount of coarse and harsh criticism here. I have my aims and my time will be limited. I wanted to let anyone reading the blog know there is another side to the story of the FoF from the standpoint of someone who considers it a legitimate school of awakening. I think I’ll know when I’ve done what I can and then I won’t feel the need to continue posting. My time is valuable to me. Being here is a compromise at best.

We have heard all the stories on the blog pages ago. No one is going to read page 43 and find out anything they have not heard on page 5 or 15.

The blog is more important to ex-members; current members have many ways to communicate with each other.

Spiritually I think we are given many chances. I don’t think me writing on the blog is a ”fatal” error. I have a thick skin. For someone else it might leave a deeper scar to know people are so negative about an organization you know to be very beneficial to many.

“Daily Cardiac, it seems fine, by my lights (and why should you care what I think, anyway?) to join a religion, it is fine to be a member of the Church of Robert Burton, it is fine to guide your life by his Revealed Teachings, it is fine to be guided by faith. What I suggest to you is that you acknowledge this, if it is indeed the case, and drop all pretense to the ideas of personal verification.”

For me verification is not a theory, it is a reality. I did plan to address this very issue in another post. But there are no magic words to make anyone believe it’s possible. There are steps to take to arrive at the doorstep of true verification. It is a process. One can follow the steps and see where they lead. They may lead to a breakthrough; if not one is no worse off than where one started.

190. Rear View Mirror - August 12, 2008

One question — which has been asked before — is why anyone would waste their time here arguing with former followers. What’s the point of that if we’ve all “lost Influence C” and are lost souls? I don’t quite get it. Do they believe they can convince us to return?

Well, obviously not. I’m just asking that rhetorically. The reason for them posting is that there’s a lot of concern that current followers might be listening, and that they’ll see how closely their thinking actually meshes with many of us here. We’re not really saying anything new, or anything provocative. Many of them see that we’re simply saying what they already have on their mind. It’s something they know, but it’s something that hasn’t yet coalesced into the action of leaving the FOF, partly because it’s nearly impossible to discuss these topics over a glass of wine at “the Galleria.”

(without getting kicked out, that is)

If people are listening, that would not be a good thing for the FOF. The last thing they want is an army of critical thinkers toasting to “open discussion” on the deck looking at the sunset.

If Cardiac, HC, Vinnie, etc., are posting here — it’s a good sign. They know that open discussion is effective. They know someone is listening. And a cozy way of “life” is being threatened. The amount of their posting here may be directly proportional to the level of concern — which apparently is quite a bit lately.

191. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

169 Reality Check

Your blog on the FOF site about mental illness is one-sided bigotry. I suffer from bi-polar affective disorder (not a terminal disease, I may add). I have posted before that someone I knew once said, “Nigel is OK most of the time, but now and again, the cheese slips off his cracker”. Would you judge someone for having a leg missing? Well, YOU probably would! Same as REB wanted only pedigree dogs as FOF members’ pets. I even heard that a ‘student’ felt awkward and upset (I would say that is a mild description) by the fact that she had given birth to a Downe’s Syndrome baby and wondered whether she should keep it. If REB is the ‘nearest conscious being to Christ’, why is it that members like you, who follow his precepts, do not go along with his admonition, “Judge not, that ye be not judged”? Trouble is that most foffers are judgemental to the very core of their False Personality Being. I have an admonition to you, personally. If you want to try ‘photographing’ all and sundry outside of the FOF, who post on this blog, do it with External Consideration for their possibilities. But the thing is, will you try? You may like to know why I am in kicking-your-ass mood. Try this one for size! It is Reality using the literary medium. I have no fear of meeting you face-to-face…..Nigel.

192. Rear View Mirror - August 12, 2008

Nigel: It’s odd how feelings of compassion tend to pull one away from the FOF, and its ideas and attitudes.

193. whalerider - August 12, 2008

Caridac arrest:

“The point is to do whatever is necessary to inflict emotional pain.”

Actually, it’s to restart your heart (and your conscience.)

Let’s not forget all the ex-members over the years who were asked to leave. Do you think that was emotionally easy for them? Do you think living in fear of being booted out or deported back to Siberia is fun?

“For someone else it might leave a deeper scar to know people are so negative about an organization you know to be very beneficial to many.”

Let’s put this into proper scale and perspective. The FOF may have benefited the few (1500 current followers) at the expense of the many 8,000 (+20 new) ex-members.

“Knowing” something doesn’t scar a person, like knowing or reading about the genocide in Darfur. How does that scar a person? Robert’s actions do scar people. Deeply.

“There are steps to take to arrive at the doorstep of true verification. It is a process. One can follow the steps and see where they lead. They may lead to a breakthrough; if not one is no worse off than where one started.”

No worse off? I beg to differ. After so many years and so much money and effort down the tube “following the steps” to arrive at the same place where one started? Dude, what meds are you on?

You may have started as a mystic, but like I said, you are a now follower. So IMO, you are indeed worse off than when you started.

194. nigel harris price - August 12, 2008

188 Daily Cardiac

You know, the JWs think that, in the Ending of the World, God will send down ‘meteorites’, that will miss the JWs and hit everyone else who is not a baptized, adhering Witness. If the Gods protect the idiots in the FOF, why all the subterfuge with hiding-behind-names and, especially your, rampant defensiveness? I can say what I like from the very core of My Being, because I do not give a ‘rodent’s posterior’ about what people think of me (partly becasue of my advancement in years and partly because I have Truly Evolved – go on, ask me some searching, personal questions!). Your move…Nigel.

195. dream catcher - August 12, 2008

Any more news about our eight friends?

196. My4bits - August 13, 2008

RVM, post 189.

Quite so. I once attended a meeting where members, concerned about the negative effect of the blog, discussed ways to disrupt it.

Even though I’ve interacted with Daily Cardiac, I also suspect that DC is one of these shills. Sometimes, I even think that DC is a former friend who volunteered at the aforementioned meeting to take on those bad, bad bloggers in cyberspace.

IMO, it is completely absurd to respond to the posts of shill. As a GH might say, “It is not the best use of our time.” Anyone who is here to listen, learn, and express themselves is going to be motivated by some real doubts about the Fellowship of Friends.

197. Reality Check - August 13, 2008

Repeated in case I’m off the island by morning:

What is Burton? It is “what” rather than “who” because as will be explained the beast is no longer human (nor is he superhuman) and he has been subhuman for decades. Likely the only creature with a lower self than a false prophet is a murderer and of course a successful false prophet is a murderer of human psychology. Think of the level of false personality required to come in contact with the myths of Moses and Christ, men that legend has it spoke directly to a higher power and received knowledge of the future, and then say to yourself, to your lower self, “That’s me too! I’m as important as they were.” Sounds absurd and yet history records thousands of these minor overconfident Napoleons collecting the broken souls of the habitually dissatisfied and wrecking havoc on the followers and those in the vicinity of their delusional compounds. “But Burton is just like Gurdjieff!” Ever hear stories of hundreds of ex-followers of Gurdjieff complaining of the fraud perpetrated against them? Ever hear stories of women complaining of their sexual relationship with Gurdjieff? Regardless the flaws in G’s behavior his humanity outweighed his questionable actions to the point that there was little grumbling over his egotistical indulgences. There are not many extolling the humanity of Bob Burton. Burton sells esoteric lies to naïve magnetic centers, those usually of questionable psychological stability (I think we all have to agree that we ex-FOF followers were not exactly as perceptive as the average effective citizen), in order to secure for himself an excessive quantity of materialism at the level that his own sociopathic instructor enjoyed. Yes, in Burton’s mind everything is a contest to see who can satisfy and glorify himself the most and in this respect he has openly declared that he surpassed his teacher. Which actually isn’t true, Horn and his wife Gans owned/own far more than Burton does from the proceeds of their “conscious teaching.” Burton is simply one more in a near endless line of conscienceless predators functioning from the lowest level of self, functioning from the degenerate level of the false prophet, and in Burton’s case he made every possible effort to make sure that the mark of the false prophet is clearly branded on him. Still, at least a score of hundreds of substandard human specimens are blind to the obvious signs and continue to project onto Burton their elaborate illusions of what comprises a “holy man.” A delusional fool that imagines himself a prophet even when history openly rebukes his claim, one without the conscience to realize his mistake and give up his false position, is no longer a human being capable of sincerity with himself and as each minute of the continuous lie is prolonged in his and his desperate followers minds then the further from the possibility of consciousness they drift. In the end they mistake insanity for higher consciousness, like every other spiritual criminal in history.

At a meeting in 1972 Burton said the following:

Burton: This group will produce three angels, and they will be burned on the cross and will survive.

Q. The others are the chaff?

Burton: They move to another role, if we take Jesus’ words, “Every hair is counted.” Remember, those three I spoke of will be literally and worse burned on the cross.

Can those at that meeting or those that heard of this prediction in 1972 explain why they remained in the Fellowship after hearing this? Why didn’t the words “burned on the cross and will survive” make it exactly clear what level of insanity they were involved with?

198. Elena - August 13, 2008

187 D.C. When I post from the heart I am seen as a zombie at best, sociopath more than likely.

You do not post from the heart, you don’t have one, you sold your soul to Robert for a wee bit of power which is even lower than those who sell their soul for money. You have an agenda here and you’re repeating the same indoctrination you’ve been handing out for years.

D.C.The point is to do whatever is necessary to inflict emotional pain.

You mean, life in the Fellowship? People giving up their their families, their husbands, their children to concentrate solely on making money for the Fellowship and listening to Robert and you or the other inner circle sickos for the next three lifetimes, because who gives a dam whether you’re Girard or not since neither of you has any individuality and he cut you all with the same scissors? Next thing you’ll tell us is that Jesus’ disciples gave up their families right?
A little from here and there and no matter where that will fit Robert’s gold plated practices with any form of justification? After thirty five years you should be able to come up with some decent defenses shouldn’t you? Like not getting angry on the blog but fucking and bitching at the car, or the wife, or the computers because you can’t deal with the fact that it doesn’t obey your orders? Where do you have to hide to do these things now that you walk around pretending you’re a wooves in sheep’s clothing with the ridiculous little tone of voices you put in your answering machines as if you were already angels?

D.C:As far as “defending” the FoF or myself; I don’t see that I’m defending my position anymore than ex-members are defending theirs. I’m simply my telling my story, just as you are.
This is not your story this is your dogma. You don’t have a story dear, you gave it up somewhere you don’t remember or common, tell us your story, I dare you, and now you walk like a lump of flesh dressed in silk pretending you are the second or third conscious being on the planet, trying to hold it all together so that they don’t say Robert Burton wasted his time saying so. You poor pathetic idiots thinking like the rest of us that Robert had to give you a title to be able to exist. You think this is meant to produce emotional pain on you? Are you kidding? That would show us how alive you still are but you’re excellent at showing you are not. You move on from indoctrination one to two and two to three convinced you’re in a dinner with everyone’s mouths tied up to the show that the only one worth listening to hear is you. You did not come here to talk with us, you came here to expose your agenda and leave and you still dare to say you have a heart?

D.C. I wanted to let anyone reading the blog know there is another side to the story of the FoF from the standpoint of someone who considers it a legitimate school of awakening.

So tell us, how do you find this cult a legitimate school of awakening? Please explain the following:

In Robert’s practices?
In the money making business with the pimps interrupting every dinner or lunch six times asking for more money for the show?
In the modelling show?
In the throwing food out?
In the separation from the six billion dead?
In the members you ask to leave because they threaten your position?
In the innumerable divorces that you can get away with because women are worth shit?
Or
In the blind followers that lick your ass day and night and send money from centers as a present? Little gifts to your divinity?
Or the blind followers who have been listening to you convinced you are really trying to help them
Have you ever thought of how this people really believe in you and all you do is cover up Robert’s shit so that it looks reasonable, covering reality with the statement that he is too high up in consciousness for anyone to understand him?

Are you going to avoid these questions like the rest of the angles I’ve offered you because your taperecorder can’t stretch that far?

D.C. The blog is more important to ex-members; current members have many ways to communicate with each other.

Oh don’t give us this bullshit, you would not be wasting your time here if it were not because you’re loosing too many adepts to your personal show. You’ve come to pretend you’re already above expressing negative emotions and so you’re above the rest of the people here but you are obviously avoiding the deep questions and only pretend to dialogue with the rest. But that is not surprising, you are people who do not know what a conversation is you’ve been practicing the monologue for so many years.

D.C.For me verification is not a theory, it is a reality. I did plan to address this very issue in another post. But there are no magic words to make anyone believe it’s possible.

So let’s guess who you are: Girard? Are you so desperate that you’ve had to get down here with the mob of the blog to protect your little cult? Then it must be true that we are winning if you or any like you is having to do this and the more you write the more you loose so please do continue, maybe your thick skin will crack and you’ll get a breath of fresh air after all these years.

Let me ask you just one more question. After you’ve dealt with all the indoctrinating material that you’ve used to justify your position, will you deal seriously with the dark side of the Fellowship? Or are you already too dark to distinguish your self from it?

And one more: You’re not telling your story, you’re justifying yourself, since when do you need to do so? Are you beginning to doubt? Or are these questions too human for you to consider them?

199. Elena - August 13, 2008

And you know what Girard or any of you writing as Daily Cardiac,
the formatory apparatus cannot expand enough nor does it have any emotions in its expression. Sharpen up your balls and stop talking like sissys, this is not your telephone machine. If you’re gonna defend that little cult get some energy into that tone so that you at least sound somewhat convincing or make believe that you actually care. It is embarrasing to meet the likes of you in the post office and the oregon House store moving like you’ve spent thirty five years deforming yourselves in that cult.

200. Rear View Mirror - August 13, 2008

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:The_Cult_Phenomenon_in_the_United_States_(1979)
———-

The following is an excerpt from “The Effects of Religious Cults on the Health and Welfare of Their Converts”, which can can be found by searching on the word “cult” on en.wikisource.org. The following quote is from John G. Clark, JR., M.D., of Harvard Medical School.

“All of the groups that we are talking about have living leaders who are demonstrably wealthy. The beliefs of all these cults are absolutist and non-tolerant of other systems of beliefs. Their systems of governance are totalitarian. A requirement of membership is to obey absolutely without questioning. Their interest in the individual’s development within the cult towards some kind of satisfactory individual adult personality is by their doctrines, very low or nonexistent. It is clear that almost all of them emphasize money making in one form or another, although a few seem to be very much involved in demeaning or self denigrating activities and rituals. Most of them that I have studied possess a good deal of property and money which is under the discretionary control of the individual leaders.

“Most of the cults of concern consider themselves purely religious; some others appear to be more political. One of the most important of the common properties of such cults is the presence of a leader who, in one way or another, claims special powers or may even allow himself to be thought of as the Messiah. Such leaders do have special personal qualities, including a unique worldview and special willingness to effect drastic changes in the thinking and behavior of followers.”

And the following is from Peter Ouspensky’s “Notes on the Decision to Work”:

“In order to understand better the necessity for accepting tasks given to you without hesitation, the necessity for ‘deliberate suffering’ and ‘conscious effort,’ think about ideas which brought you to the work, think about the first realization of your mechanicalness and the first realization that you know nothing. In the beginning you realized this and came for help, but now you doubt whether you must really do as you are told. And you try to find ways to evade it, to stand on your own judgment and on your own understanding. You understood clearly once that your judgment and your understanding are false and weak, but now you try to keep them again. You don’t want to give them up. Well, you can keep them, but you must understand that with them you will keep all that is false and weak in yourself. There are no half measures. You must decide: do you want to work or not?”

201. Rear View Mirror - August 13, 2008

“Can those at that meeting or those that heard of this prediction in 1972 explain why they remained in the Fellowship after hearing this? Why didn’t the words “burned on the cross and will survive” make it exactly clear what level of insanity they were involved with?”

RC, I read your post a second time. I definitely agree that it was — and is — insane. I sometimes feel my “work” today is largely the process of getting back my sanity. Healing. I sincerely hope that my words on this blog over several months have helped at least one person to begin that process. I know some of your words, and many others, have helped me. What a screwy, angry, nasty mess this man lured us into. And trapped us within.

But we could always leave. We — and I still feel very strongly the “we” in this sentence — WE can leave right now.

Why we didn’t see the insanity of the words you point out? Such a good question. I hope people are beginning to see that insanity more readily in the FOF.

I know many people are pissed at you here, and maybe vice versa. But maybe we have something in common despite our differences? Damn, I hate what the FOF did to all of us, and is doing to all of us, and how it destroyed some of the closes, dearest frienships I ever had. Even those of you who feel so “happy” and “content” — illusion, ephemera, delusion, and unbelievable pain on the horizon.

202. Rear View Mirror - August 13, 2008

The difference, though. You have us here. Will you join us?

That’s my only question. The same pattern continues. Your choice, and your call… time to break it? Time to do the impossible?

Screw all the logic. Screw the next post that ignores this. Screw the cuteness, the egos, the sense that our “way” is the right one. Start with sanity. Maybe it’s time.

203. Elena - August 13, 2008

Steve, thanks for asking about Greg but do as you please.
I personally don’t mind him as long as he doesn’t mistreat anyone but who am I to say that after calling those sissys for what they are and telling them to sharpen their balls?
I also think it would do him so much good if they let him talk and he’ll insult us again but so what? It is not so bad to get insulted! After a while one gets more used to it and takes one’s self less seriously and some of us like him and I are often in need of such a thing. If you let him insult enough he’ll start saying something. It’s just the defensiveness before the attack but if it goes through he’ll take the defensiveness off.

The problem though Greg is that you, like most of us, just repeat yourself over and over. And you, like me, think you’re saying something so important but it isn’t and then we get furious when somebody tells us. Not much consciousness there but I don’t expect much of that anymore.

And Bruce doesn’t like you and I’m afraid I can’t live without Bruce because I’m still naïve enough to think people are honest and he knows better. So why don’t you try some other tactic? Maybe we’ll all learn.

204. Elena - August 13, 2008

Oh Greg , and I would ban you as soon as you said cunt because it is such an ugly word and you have such an ugly way of insulting people.

205. veramente - August 13, 2008

DC
“The main purpose of the name calling and personal attacks is to inflict emotion pain. Whether the names or the attacks are true or not is not the point for the person calling names. The point is to do whatever is necessary to inflict emotional pain”
———————–
This resembles paranoia.

DC
“As far as “defending” the FoF or myself; I don’t see that I’m defending my position anymore than ex-members are defending theirs. I’m simply my telling my story, just as you are.”
————————–
I have not read your story yet, just words. What ‘s your story?

DC
“For me verification is not a theory, it is a reality. I did plan to address this very issue in another post. But there are no magic words to make anyone believe it’s possible. There are steps to take to arrive at the doorstep of true verification. It is a process. One can follow the steps and see where they lead. They may lead to a breakthrough; if not one is no worse off than where one started.”
———————–
this could be your fairy tale…

206. whalerider - August 13, 2008

Judging from the past, the only prediction that is likely to come true about the two next “conscious” beings, Dorian and Asaf, is that they both will eventually develop remorse of conscience and leave the cult just like the rest of the so-called conscious beings the FOF has “produced” over the years (excluding Girard, of course, who was demoted and thus stayed on…which speaks volumes.)

And like I said many pages back, I also predict there will be an earthquake in California. Oh, wait a minute…that just happened a few weeks ago! Ding dang it, so I guess it wasn’t c-influence that inspired me to make that prediction since it actually came true. OK, just to prove that anyone can play this c-influence game, I now predict that there will be no more earthquakes in California ever again! So if you Californians out there feel the earth shake under your feet, it’s just your lower self tricking you.

207. Ames Gilbert - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac (#44-188 or thereabouts),
I’ll let other posters answer your question about anonymity for themselves. Points that ran through my mind before I made my decision to post under my name included the knowledge that Abe Goldman has a lot of power to affect my life, using SLAPP suits and so on. Another point to ponder is that many employers routinely google the names of their employees both present and potential, and can find out a lot of information that way, some of it harmful to their prospects. And so on. And I can hardly blame people who have been molested by Burton not wanting that information spread around; I’d most likely do the same if that had happened to me. Anyway, I decided to use my real name for what I see as excellent personal reasons, including just seeing what would happen. (Which was the spirit of why I pushed gently against the form of the FoF in the months leading up to my expulsion. It was a deliberate, controlled experiment, the results of which neatly showed the true being of Burton, the hierarchy, the people who shunned me, and thus that I had not been in, and had never been in, a true school. What is my life for if not to explore and experiment for myself?)

I encourage you to post your essay on verification. Be prepared for some mauling if you are planning to fob us off with material on the level of your post #44-21, but if you really can lead us step by step through a few (please, real!) examples, it should prove very interesting—and emotional. Thanks!

Elena (#44-1), I forgot to say that I really enjoyed your poem. It reached my heart. Thank you!

208. Daily Cardiac - August 13, 2008

To Paul 124:

Paul: “You should go back and read more of Bruce’s posts. When he is not present with “horseshit” his posts are pretty profound. The sensitivity is also greatly appreciated here because a lot of us simply get drawn in to easily. I, for one, really look forward to you making a well reasoned, intelligent argument that is actually fact based. So far, not so good. I think Ames and others are disappointed about this as well. I have to remind myself that if I expect little, I won’t be disappointed.”

Sorry you and Ames are not satisfied with the content of my posts; although I do see that the Ad Hominem factor is alive and well on the blog; it is a very polarized and partisan arena. Are you sure that’s not part of the disappointment you feel? Do you think you are neutral enough to see any merit in anything said of a positive nature about RB/FoF?

Actually I’ve seen that hardly anyone picked up on what I considered the main point in several of my first posts (maybe starting on page 41?). I wrote a long first post and a few lengthy replies to Traveler and Ellen. Traveler wrote an excellent reply that inspired some words I am still organizing.

In those posts I mentioned that I saw a contradiction in the sense that ex-students talk about the sex with members, money issues, stifling atmosphere, as causes for becoming disenchanted, but what I see is an unmistakable disdain for the principles the FoF was founded on.
I see that disdain as the “mother of all causes” for leaving. If someone does not embrace the work principles given one can’t expect to achieve any lasting results on this particular path. And then one can hardly blame the organization for whatever failures one encounters.

Paul: “A while back you stated that you were just going to ignore posts like Bruce’s. By mentioning them, of course, you failed before you started. It does seem to suit you to respond to the vitriol rather than some really interesting questions that have been asked. An opportunity is being lost here. Why not do as you say, ignore the vitriol and discuss the real issues.”

I’m not sure I said I would ignore anyone’s posts. I do remember saying that I didn’t plan to go round and round with anyone, and anyone looking for the last word with me can have it.

But the essence of your suggestion is sound; I should pass on the obvious ones who don’t want to engage in respectful dialog but who lie in wait for current members just to cherry pick through their words, find a peripheral point that is refutable to them, distort it, and then go off on a riff about how deranged the author is. I will be more selective in the future.

Paul: “What every religion needs is a creation mythology. Here is a good question for you to ask our old pal: Burtonism seems to be approaching something with interpreting cave drawings and all. What came before the 44?”

The Absolute would be before all else; I cannot say I have verified that but it makes sense to me. Pondering the unknowable does not help me to be present, so I don’t dwell on things like that.

Paul: “Was there a time when there were no “Angels”?”

I think angels must have appeared when world 3 came into being, a very long time ago no doubt.Than means there were some Angels who did not have to inhabit an earthly body; I guess you could call them prototypes. I do believe that some men have ascended to the rank of angels.

Paul: “Where did school come from. C Influence ought to know right?”

I would reason that School on earth came from higher school, maybe those same prototype angles. School on earth, I would think, must have been in the original plan and the ultimate aim of Higher School.
Perhaps humanity was created in part to produce other angels.

You said you were interested in hearing about the Sequence some time ago; maybe you will find this useful.

The Sequence is a series of six one syllable work I’s designed to expand our moments of Self Remembering. In the past when someone realized they were not remembering themselves they could try to be present. If one succeeded it was rarely for more than a few seconds. With the sequence someone, if they complete a successful one, can ward off imagination and prolong presence for at least 30 seconds. So it extends the state quite a lot.

If someone is driving in a car for example, and notices that he or she is in the state of imagination they can begin a sequence, maybe with the work I Look. This is a close example to the looking exercise from years ago. One would – Inhale – incant silently the work I Be on the exhale. Inhale – incant the work I Hold on the exhale. Inhale – incant the work I Look on the exhale.(and actually look at what is before you) Inhale – incant the work I Back on the exhale – Inhale – incant the work I Look (once more) on the exhale.(one should already be looking at this point) Inhale – incant the work I BE on the exhale.

Then inhale and exhale for 4 “wordless” breaths. If one can hold presence until the completion of a sequence plus the four wordless breaths one has added about 30 seconds of presence to one’s astral body. If one can complete 10 sequences in a day that’s 300 seconds, and so on.

209. whalerider - August 13, 2008

Cardiac arrest:

“I for one, really look forward to you making a well reasoned, intelligent argument that is actually fact based.”

Hmm… Me too.

WTF do you know about the astral body?

210. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

207 Daily Cardiac
Now I am sure you are Girard…..Nigel.

211. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

205. whalerider

“Judging from the past, the only prediction that is likely to come true about the two next “conscious” beings, Dorian and Asaf, is that they both will eventually develop remorse of conscience and leave the cult just like the rest of the so-called conscious beings the FOF has “produced” over the years…”

I don’t think so. If one uses Miles as a touchstone it appears Dorian and Asaf played a distinctly different role. I don’t see remorse as one of the options. These are people who devoted themselves to supporting the super structure, while enriching themselves. I can see them starting their own cult. I don’t think conscience enters into their equation.

212. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

209. nigel harris price

I don’t agree. I don’t think Girard would spout the mindless, senseless shit that DC does. He has his own specific type of mindless, senseless shit, but I think DC’s just a putz that thinks he’s up to the job. Probably what we called solar, and doesn’t have a fucking clue.

213. Elena - August 13, 2008

Why would you be Nigel? I’m not, they all sound the same! Haven’t you understood that copying one another is an aspect of their consciousness?

214. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

DC

“respectful dialog”

You got to be kidding. Bite me you little shit.

215. Across the River - August 13, 2008

118 Tina

154 Ellen

I wonder what this understanding looks like in your interactions with those who choose to stay in the Fellowship. In my experience it is precisely because those who stay do not take their OWN responsibility that I find an insurmountable divide between us. I’ve discovered that it feels like a lie to pretend nothing has changed in me through the act of leaving. Within the Fellowship frame, Robert’s activities are either acceptable or unacceptable. For me this is “seeing things as they are”.

My deepest understanding is that I participated in feeding the most profound weaknesses in Robert and contributed to the making of this organization. For that I have done what I can to help others see it for what it is, without the same overcareful intellectualizing that kept us preoccupied for years — as you say Ellen, no need for fancy pantsy.

Aside from trying to make amends, how do you find that our responsibility continues toward those who continue contributing to the Fellowship?

216. Ellen - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac,

I went back and reread your first posting (page 41), since you just referenced it. I felt as I did originally, that it was written by an intelligent person with a great sense of logic, but one who was still functioning from within a set of assumptions. I also reread Traveler’s well articulated response to you. If you are still formulating a response to her, I look forward to reading it.

I do understand your feelings and thoughts about posting here. When I began, I often felt as though the other posters were like little piranas, eagerly waiting to devour every word I spoke, but that the ears I hoped to reach were the other, silent ones, so it gave me courage to continue. When I read your posts, I feel your sincerity speaking, and even if I now feel it to be misguided, I hear it nevertheless. And regarding your identity, I feel rather sure that I know who you are, but I see no reason to divluge that hunch. It would not be of service to you or anyone else, really. (Nigel, DC is not GH. Bruce, DC is not Fat Boy, either.) Of course, you know who I am, and I know that we have had affection for one another – at least in the past.

But to continue our dialog, if you are at all interested to do so, I was struck by this sentence: “My belief is that the desire to leave the FoF first of all begins internally, in the form of a general disillusionment with what one thought awakening meant or entailed, and then an external reason to leave is attached to that disillusionment.” In general, I agree with at least the first part of your sentence. I’d like however to take a deeper look at that first part, ” in the form of a general disillusionment with what one thought awakening meant or entailed”. Do you mean to infer that someone leaves the Fellowship because they become disillusioned with what they thought awakening meant or entailed – as presented by Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends? Or do you mean to say that someone leaves the Fellowship because they become disillusioned with what they thought awakening meant or entailed – period? In other words, do you think that because the Fellowship works for you and other members – by producing higher states and prolongation of higher states – that you therefore know exactly what awakening is? I just wanted to clarify that issue, because I think it is a really important one.

Then the following statement “and then an external reason to leave is attached to that disillusionment”. Can you admit that the scenario could ever be slightly different? What if a person experienced not a general but instead a rather specific disillusionment with what they thought awakening entailed – as it was presented by the Fellowship of Friends? If such were to be the case, then no external reason to leave ever needs to be attached to that disillusionment, right? But instead rather the courage to plunge into the unknown “seemingly” ahead. I would think you could at least agree to the logic of the argument, yes? And who knows, then we might even be able to intelligently dicsuss here what we think “awakening” means. What do you think?

217. fofblogmoderator - August 13, 2008

#163 is newly moderated

218. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

To DC, via Ellen’s last post

To myself, I have always thought that ‘awakening’ meant awakening of one’s possibilities. Ouspensky actually stated, “Self awareness at one level is fine, but after a time it has to become attached to one’s aim, what one TRULY WANTS”. And Rodney Collin said, “No general or IMITATED aim will work”. My search for the miraculous and my essence endeavours went hand-in-hand, before, through and after my FOF experiences. I am sure that ‘finery, dinery and winery’ at Apollo produces ‘states’ for all concerned but, if one is coccooned in that enclave, how does one test one’s will in Life? Remember, a few posts of mine back, I quoted that song”….let your love flow, to all living things….”, and can you relate that to Buddha’s admonition, “Show compassion to ALL sentient beings”? With that in mind, you could show true External Consideration to other bloggers (yes, even ‘punchy’ Bruce!) and not continue the attack/defence formalism…..Nigel.

219. Ellen - August 13, 2008

214, Across the River

I read your post as I was pasting in #215 to Daily Cardiac. And in a certain way, at least to my mind, my post answers your question. I am deeply interested in dissolving as much spiritual ignorance as I can. That doesn’t mean that I am claiming to be awakened, by no means, but I know enough about this one particular Fellowship pitfall to understand the illusory nature of “states”. I know that for myself, the higher states that I experienced with the Fellowship, fine as they were, kept me from being able to see the forest for the trees.

As to the forest: I regard it as fundamentally true that imagination about being a “person” is a dream from which one can awaken. Thus, cutting through illusions is the only way home. If my freinds, in their ignorance and sleep, entertain illusions about Robert and the Fellowship, well then it is something from which they can one day awaken.

With regard to being around them, if and when, I am careful to not be politically incorrect – because it does not help them and merely increases the polarity. It is a question of triads. But if some of my friends have questions, then we can talk. I do feel that the strongest statement anyone can make is simply to leave. Every one who departs pricks at the conscience of those who remain.

And yes, it is strange to be together with friends where formerly there were no boundaries (within the bubble) and by the mere fact of stepping out, suddenly there are some that were not there even a few months ago. Generally, our love for one another crosses the divide, and I know it is only a question of time, even if it is 10 or 20 years. Golly, it took me so long to understand, how could I ever judge someone else?

220. will coyote - August 13, 2008

199. Rear View Mirror
I think there is a difference in what Ouspensky says: Do you have to do your discipline’s exercise remembering why do you are doing it.
If do you are making sitting meditation the thought that freedom is run away IS NOT a rescue thought. (and also stay till I become illluminated is no a rescue thought!) So one that accept to give to an other is will, for a while , he have always havemto remenber why , and learn to tell apart when obey and when obey not. So he begin to learn what is real will. If master says some that i don’t like I have to make a search in all me and decide what is right. It is no easy and it is more easy obey and don’think, but tat is not Work.

221. Reality Check - August 13, 2008

Why are men so afraid of the words of others? The opposing opinion terrifies and so disturbs only because we sleep in comfortable lies.

222. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

221 Reality Check

Can you please explain your post so that it can ‘nourish the being’ of other bloggers? And do you apply the words WE SLEEP to yourself and your aim to awaken???…..Nigel.

223. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

216 Ellen

This may be third force for understanding. As I mentioned, IF ONE IS REAL, or if one has real possibilities, then one cannot become disillusioned with awakening, because the process or ‘path’ will lead to Oneself. If it is the disillusionment with ‘Burton’s way of awakening’, then maybe people should question whether he is, or is not, one of those who has ‘reached that Sacred Room (GIG) and found it empty’. I do not have to answer that for myself and have no wish to engage in terse arguments about it, but ‘jes lay id on de lan, bros’ for anyone to absorb and ‘work with’…..Nigel.

224. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

To wakeuplittlesuzywakeup

This question has been ‘running about in my brain’ for some time now, since you and others mentioned topics related to forms of yoga and meditation and, in particular, your encounter with Stephen Porges’ methods. For me, and especially with my bi-polar, the constant need to seperate from my thought patterns is a paramount personal responsibility and a sort of ‘meditation on the run’. I actually postulated that, when I first encountered ICT, the VDU was modeled on the human ‘eye of the mind’ (the Observer standing back from ‘clouds of thought’). But I do go along with Shakespeare that it is possible to “Work, work your thoughts” and I believe it has to do with reaching a certain maturity of experience and not trusting all one encounters as it appears ‘on the surface’. As to physical methods of yoga, I need nothing more than the ‘hand-eye co-ordination’ of my craft metal work. I am too old and ‘crunchy-boned’ for bending and positioning. Hope these thoughts help…………………….Nigel.

225. Draco - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac.

It seems to be axiomatic for you that no one can ever have a valid reason to leave the Fellowship. So the people who have left have, according to you, been dishonest about their reasons, are embittered failures, have fallen victim to the lower self. Then you criticize ex-students for not acknowledging that that the Fellowship . How can you expect ex-students to acknowledge that it’s possible to follow a genuine spiritual path in the Fellowship if you are unwilling to acknowledge that they can follows genuine spiritual paths outside of the Fellowship? Or that they had genuine and valid reasons for leaving the Fellowship?

The blog is indeed concerned with ridiculing the Fellowship, revealing the corruption, putting the Fellowship into a cult context, criticizing the justifications that current students use to stay in the FOF, comparing Robert to other corrupt modern spiritual teachers. That’s the kind of entity that the blog is—it’s often contentious, argumentative, sarcastic, scatological. If you join the Greater Fellowship, you will discover a very cooperative and pleasant online environment used by the same ex-students. It’s a matter of horses for courses. The blog is a vehicle for exposing the corruption of the Fellowship.

Some of your pseudological defences of the Fellowship are familiar to me because I rehearsed similar arguments during my time in the FOF. I’ll just pick up on a few of the points raised in your first post. Your comments are in ityalics.

It’s very interesting that there is no mention of sex in the direct teachings of the founders of three of the world’s most enduring religions. To my knowledge neither Christ, Buddha nor Muhammad said one word instructing their followers, or posterity, on the role sex plays in spiritual evolution. What can we draw from this omission? If indeed these are three of history’s most enlightened beings we can rule out forgetfulness or lack of focus. I would also rule out inner considering or being under the grips of feminine dominance, and conclude that what they included in their teachings were the most relevant issues to awakening; things like love, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance of one’s play, not judging one’s fellow men.

Jesus seems to have adopted the strict standards of the Jewish morality of his time. Of course, you can reject their literal meaning by “keying” them, but then you make it impossible to ever discover any straightforward teaching by these figures. The following teachings of Jesus are the result of a quick Google search.
Matthew 5:31-32:
“It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” (KJV)
Matthew 19:9:
“And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” (KJV)

Matthew 5:27-28 condemns feelings of lust experienced by a man towards a woman. In the King James version, Jesus says:
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

“For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:12 KJV).

****

You draw a comparison between Robert’s sex life and Muhammad’s, particularly with regard to Muhammad having sex with a nine-year-old girl. I presume that you subtext is “Muhammad was a conscious being and founder of a civilization; Robert is a conscious being and will found a civilization; Muhammad had sex with a nine year old girl; therefore Robert having sex with heterosexual male students is acceptable.” You are begging the question somewhat with your comparison between Robert and Muhammad. It would be more instructive to compare Robert with contemporaries like Osho, or Bubba Free John, or Kriyananda/Donald Walters of the Ananda Fellowship near Nevada City just up the road who has had to pay out several hundred thousands of dollars for his sexual transgressions. Or James Randazzo, an ex-FOF member who was sent to prison for having sex with children. Presumably, your relative morality would approve of Randazzo. What is the difference between Robert and Randazzo? There’s certainly an undercurrent of underage sex in the Fellowship. Robert and the underage Troy Buzbee; the pedophile student who was advised by Robert that there would be no sexual restrictions after 2006; the student who was imprisoned for sex with a minor and who was arrested again after he failed to declare himself to the county when he moved to Oregon House —all these come to mind.
The comparison between Robert and Muhammad doesn’t make any difference to me. I’m not committed to seeing Muhammad as a “conscious being” and I have considerably less admiration for him than I have for the Sufi poets. I’m quite willing to decide that Muhammad was a flawed man who was merely a conduit for revelations or subjective visions, or that he had some consciousness but went wrong, or that he was a monster, or whatever view my examination of the evidence leads me to.
My concerns about Robert’s sexuality are:-
1. He’s obviously a sex addict. I’m very suspicious of the inner life or the spiritual status of a man who spends so much of his time and energy recruiting new partners, maintaining a harem of dozens and dozens of partners, a man who will only have sex with people over whom he has an unfair advantage (i.e., his students) who has to have sex several times a day at regular times even though he cannot maintain an erection without the use of Viagra and the like.
2. He has no concern about the effect or potential psychological effect that his actions have on his heterosexual male sexual partners.
3. He uses coercion to obtain sexual partners.
4. He spends a considerable amount of time demeaning the body and its role in our lives and yet he indulges in the most physically extreme sexual practices.
5. I tried to put myself in his shoes and ask myself if I could truly be present to having sex with sexual partners who were obviously unwilling, upset, disgusted or traumatized by the experience. I could not. Present or not, I simply couldn’t do it.
6. If I continued to follow his teaching would I find myself with similar problems to Robert, if on a smaller scale.

226. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

Hi Elena

From your recent posts, I hear ‘your pain in my heart’ (the true meaning of the word EMPATHY) and would like to answer in my own way. I have no progeny (never been married and have been in very few worthwhile relationships, but have wonderful what I call ‘meat and potatoes/nuts and bolts’ friends) but would certainly be distressed, were I to be told to give up my children for REB’s ‘human mincemeat factory’. Why, oh, why! did REB hold back awhile for ‘children of the ark’ until about 1980, then, as you described, revert to his former ‘we will have no children, since that exercise will support our evolution’ declaration. It is quite probable, although it is only my theory, not having experienced it at first-hand, that the ‘children of the ark’ grew up and left their parents to go ‘out into the world’ and ‘experience life in all its fullness’ (Christ’s words). Luckily, my parents always kept connection with me during my FOF days, visiting me in California and supporting me and, eventually rescuing me after my hyper-psychotically propelled exit from the cult. Now, however, my mum has passed on (although I know her presence sometimes visits me) and my difficulties are with my dad over my money issues and the fact that I have not followed my two (younger) brothers pursuit of Mammon, but love my craft-form in a quietly passionate Essential way AND THE TEACHING OF IT. I hope we (you, I and other sincere bloggers, who are here to solve and not to perpetuate and increase problems) can open up an area of healing here…..Nigel.

227. Draco - August 13, 2008

One more little comment: DC, you are constantly comparing like and unlike and your comparisons are put in a merely pseudological way. I have no sense that you really examine the weight of anything. Your arguments are just valueless Fellowship relativism. Robert has sex with his students? Muhammad had sex with a nine year old and many Indian girls marry at 13, so that’s okay. FOF members are thrown out for going on a kinesiology course? Harvard School of Law would throw out students who didn’t study, so that’s okay.

228. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

Draco

Your last two posts – BRILLIANT, INTELLIGENT and STIMULATING….
Nigel. (May the [full-moon] Force be with You!).

229. Mick Danger - August 13, 2008

On the other hand, if you give them enough rope
They’re bound to hang themselves.
Judas did the same and who’s side was he on?
I’m against killing, but sacrifices have to be made.

230. Elena - August 13, 2008

Oh Bruce, you must have met a different Girard because the one I met sounds very much like Daily Cardiac and the style is his but as I said before, they were all faithful copies of him. Steven D, that other guy who even married his wife, sorry I don’t remember your name, and no one says anything different to what he already had reasoned at some point if they ever get the chance to speak.

231. veronicapoe - August 13, 2008

“courses for horses” — is that like “diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks”?

232. More history needed? - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac was not here in 1998. Fat boy was…..

Daily cardiac do you have a son? And a grandson…?
Did you have heart surgery in the past?
Are you one of these intellectuals who have an identity in being so smart?
Are you?

Do you read this? Brace yourself.
I dare you to go ask Robert Burton what his view is on having sex with children, young children, under the age of 16. Do you dare? Do you have the guts?

O and Daily Card do not forget to report back here…..
And if you are shocked, please do not buffer this and see reality for what it is.
You might need some counseling; you too like many others might need counseling desperately.

I dare anybody who is in the fellowship of friends to aks Robert, anybody and please report here.

It is helpful for any form of healing to get the truth in the open.

233. Draco - August 13, 2008

veronicapoe, yeah, different strokes. It should have been horses for courses, as in racehorses. As for my vignette, the bits drawn from life are the flirting at meetings (usually just footsy, a bit of rubbing, that sort of thing), the mysterious disappearance of small expensive items at the Galleria, the joke among the boys over who will get the Guercino, the jokes about long be and the sequence, the early morning sex slot, the self-serving statements of love for Robert and, of course, the joke, popular among the entourage, that Robert is an Ass Number Eight.

234. nosridammus - August 13, 2008

Anybody have any rollover seconds on their astral body they would like to sell? I am feeling a little solid this morning.

235. Elena - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac:

You’re still avoiding post 198.

Work principles? Corruption is the only principle in the Fellowship today.

So tell us what are the Fellowship’s principles from your point of view?

The sequence is an exercise meant to convince you that you are worthless because you cannot do it all the time and doing it all the time is the madness of people who cannot evoke common sense from their centers when something happens.

The sequence is brainwashing at its best not in its content but in its practice. Watch out for it. You don’t want to repeat sequences like lunatics.

The sequence is mind activity and Robert needs members to keep busy so that they don’t think about the situation they are in.

The sequence is something members can talk about so that they don’t talk about themselves and their lives because neither one of them is of any value.

Your sweet tone is that of a priests but you are the most fucked up person who has written here.

Thanks Ames.

236. Elena - August 13, 2008

The sequence is something members can talk about so that they don’t talk about themselves and their lives because neither one of them is of any value inside the Fellowship but this is not true, your life is of enormous value, don’t let them take it away from you.

237. Another Name - August 13, 2008

Dear all.

There is a wonderful group of people living in OH and they have a mailing list. How to subscribe? Ask one of the people who left in the last 1 1/2 years or go to the Greater fellowship.

238. whalerider - August 13, 2008

brucelevy:
You are probably right, I knew Miles. Despite his flaws, he had integrity. I have never met either Asaf or Dorian. The FOF is sitting on a big pile of money and eventually the two will be given substantial power over the lives of others. Time will tell.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is certainly true in bobby’s case.

I remember once seeing a video clip of an experiment with an otherwise docile, peaceful, cooperative group of chimpanzees. The scientists gathered together a big pile of grapefruits in their habitat, a staple food for them. Suddenly and without precedent the male chimps started fighting over the spoils. Even a mother chimp with her clinging baby and a damaged arm was turned away from the abundance food by one of the dominant chimps who had become very aggressive. It was an uncanny resemblance to the game, king of the hill.

Draco:
Wonderful post.

I’d like to point out that referring to ex-members as ex-students supports the FOF’s teacher/student ‘frame’. Students of a bona fide university like Harvard eventually are allowed to graduate and seek to do so. The university professors are employed to support them in these efforts. FOF followers are not allowed that privilege despite their efforts, therefore they are not bona fide students and the FOF is not a bona fide school.

At the same time we are all perpetual students of life; therefore referring to a person as an ex-student in a sense would make them dead. That is in line with the FOF’s indoctrination. It’s like the right wing referring to the human loss of life during war as “collateral damage” or the pro-lifers referring to a specific kind of late term abortion as “partial birth abortion”. How one frame’s one’s language unconsciously affects how others feel and think about it. It’s subtle, yet over time very powerful.

The FOF is a cult, a rape factory, Robert is a predatory cult leader and he is supported by his colluding followers.

239. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

238 whalerider

I have always enjoyed your posts. You sometimes have the courtesy to offer personal helpful comments to me, which I appreciate. Not all bloggers respond to my posts (or those who write similarly to my ‘style’; because that style, mainly, is seeking to heal a situation and not necessarily to continue inane, formatory arguments). I appreciate that, too. Specifically, as to your last post, above – I am both a perpetual student of life (in all its fullness) and a tutor/facilitator in the lifelong learning process, by profession. I cannot see how the two would be necessarily mutually exclusive, except in the case of REB, who stopped learning anything worthwhile about himself and others’ true potential, when he came up with his ‘cult-whim’ (i.e. he has no WILL)…..Nigel.

240. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

233 Draco

Ass Number Eight – must be the Gate to Higher Worlds (that was a joke, too!)…..Nigel.

241. whalerider - August 13, 2008

Hi Nigel:
I do remember you from your time at Renaissance. Unfortunately I am too ashamed to reveal my identity to you after having prostituted myself in the interest of ‘higher learning’.

You are a perpetual student in the school of life otherwise you’d be dead.

You could also be a student at a university. But that would be a temporary condition. Eventually, you’d become a graduate and a contributing member of society and yes, at the same time also remain a student of life.

I object to be called an “ex-student”, a term that FOFer’s also use, as though my learning process has somehow ended or that I had died.

242. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

241 whalerider

“And no man shall be condemned for any conceivable sin or failure” (Walt Whitman). God! We have all blotted our copy book, either in our own or others’ eyes…..but remember “Perfection belongs to Allah alone”. Bless you, and be kind to yourself…..Nigel.

243. lauralupa - August 13, 2008

Thanks Draco, and thanks nosriddamus for the humour.
One day I would enjoy having a more serious conversation here on the various theories, personal verifications and unverified assumptions about the astral body, but today it’s hot and sticky and my left brain is barely functioning.

Still, I’d like to share an observation. A few days ago, while looking for quotes from the Her Majesty, I ventured onto the official FOF website. I found out that there isn’t a single RB quote in the whole site, and that the descriptions of the teachings are kept as vague as possible.

“The principal work of our spiritual teacher is to initiate and prolong Divine Presence in the lives of Fellowship members. He does this in many ways: by conveying special knowledge; by offering exercises, personal tasks, and opportunities to work; and by simply being and allowing us to be. All such efforts spring from his own Divine Presence, and his desire to convey this reality to us.

How does he work in the moment? At one level, he may use an inspired reference to something close at hand as a way of bringing a person out of an inattentive state and more deeply into the present. At another level, he may use all methods and instructions as a way to sustain presence once it has been achieved.

After a period of sincere effort, a member comes to understand that awakening is neither the practice of one exercise nor the overcoming of one obstacle alone. It is a way of life. Awakening has become the way of life of our Teacher, and he invites us to join him in this life.”

It seems that even the marketing department is secretly ashamed and aware of the flaws of its product, and tries to hide them by using a very washed-out version of the teachings and mostly instisting on similarities with other more established traditions.

“The core of the Fellowship’s religious practice rests on two endeavors: to understand a system of keys that provides a method of transmission of religious knowledge on how to awaken; and to make continual efforts to be present in each moment. These continual efforts have traditionally been referred to as the Inner Prayer, the Jesus Prayer, Inner Yoga or Meditation.

Awakening has been the original focus of all great religions. Religious traditions often hide this message, however, in mysterious forms, which can only be understood through keys that are handed down from one tradition to the next.

A key is a representation of something; it is not the thing itself. This means, for example, that reciting a text or looking at an image is not by itself intended to produce Divine Presence. There is never any substitute for making personal efforts in the moment to awaken. What keys provide is a means of conveying ideas in a way that can both inspire members to make effort as well as deepen their understanding of what efforts to make and how to make them. The inner meaning of any key is always the same: to be present to one’s own life. ”

Then, after you join, you will be privileged to slowly find out all the other weird stuff, much like it happens in Scientology and similar cults.

BTW, if the inner meaning of keys is always the same, why bother to keep on keying? Seems like a waste of precious Divine Presence time.
Just keep counting those seconds, folks!

244. Vena - August 13, 2008

Draco: Excellent post. I hope that Daily Cardiac will address your points below directly and specifically and not find a way to ignore these issues. If he or any other current follower could really look at these things and think about them it should make staying and supporting the corruption very difficult.
______________________________________________________________

My concerns about Robert’s sexuality are:-
1. He’s obviously a sex addict. I’m very suspicious of the inner life or the spiritual status of a man who spends so much of his time and energy recruiting new partners, maintaining a harem of dozens and dozens of partners, a man who will only have sex with people over whom he has an unfair advantage (i.e., his students) who has to have sex several times a day at regular times even though he cannot maintain an erection without the use of Viagra and the like.
2. He has no concern about the effect or potential psychological effect that his actions have on his heterosexual male sexual partners.
3. He uses coercion to obtain sexual partners.
4. He spends a considerable amount of time demeaning the body and its role in our lives and yet he indulges in the most physically extreme sexual practices.
5. I tried to put myself in his shoes and ask myself if I could truly be present to having sex with sexual partners who were obviously unwilling, upset, disgusted or traumatized by the experience. I could not. Present or not, I simply couldn’t do it.
6. If I continued to follow his teaching would I find myself with similar problems to Robert, if on a smaller scale.

245. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

244 vena

“I hope that daily Cardiac…..”. Don’t hold your breathe, everyone!

246. Ellen - August 13, 2008

#77, #225
Scintillating portraits! Bravo!

And if Daily Cardiac is who I think he is, he does have problems similar to RB as you mentioned a person would.

247. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

246. Ellen

So your supposition about DC/FatBoy is only a supposition stated as fact?

248. Elena - August 13, 2008

We have an excellent opportunity to observe the mastery of the Fellowship with Daily Cardiac’s posts or Girard’s, because even if he’s not Girard, he honors him and so will I.
Besides it inspires me to write better than to anyone else I don’t know suffering the same symptoms.

What you are offering us Girard, is the perfection of the formatory apparatus at work which as we all know is your chief strength supposedly being centred in the jack of diamonds. It is the ability to reason no matter what cause. What matters about the way you do it is that you concentrate only on what can be reasoned and avoid everything else by diminishing it:
“I mentioned that I saw a contradiction in the sense that ex-students talk about the
sex with members,
money issues,
stifling atmosphere,
as causes for becoming disenchanted”

IT IS NOT JUST SEX WITH MEMBERS
IT IS NOT JUST MONEY ISSUES
IT IS NOT JUST AN STIFLING ATMOSPHERE
AND IT IS NOT JUST DISENCHANTMENT

WATCH WHAT YOU READ YOU IDIOTS INSIDE, THIS IS MUMMY GIRARD TALKING TO YOU AND DIMINISHING WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU IN THERE. Mummy Girard rationalizing what daddy Robert does. This is his JOB, what he was hired for when he was told that he would be the next conscious being on the planet. He has an agenda and keeping you inside is that agenda.

The tragedy is that you had to do this with your life: the Girard Haven role can only be a formatory apparatus at the service of the Fellowship Cult aimed at maintaining the status quo that will guarantee your role as the next conscious being on the planet. It is all ambition and greed at everybody else’s cost, just like Robert. You and him for ever. Is that why the others in the inner circle hate you too? Because you never gave them a chance either? Or maybe just a little? Enough so that they could still direct a few meetings and get their hands on some of the money? Like Robert did to you?
But in becoming the Formatory apparatus you sacrificed your possibility to evolve and crystallized in a form. You cannot deal with anything beyond that form, that is why you do not answer the questions on post 198 or the real issues being posed on this blog.

The tragedy is that to be able to accomplish these things a man cannot just pretend them, he has to believe them. What we can witness here is the mastery of evil at work. What we can understand here is how false personality can develop fully because it is the faithfull image of both Robert, Girard and the Fellowship of Friends at large. Let’s look at the characteristics:

The Fellowship of Friends is clearly divided into two agendas:
Awakening
High alchemy or high standards in impressions
Order
Intentionality
Superflous art disguised as Art
Collect money for the development of the Ark

Or actually

Hipnotizing people so that they can get ripped off convinced that they are awakening
Making them work like hell so that they are consistently under stress
Organizing them minutiously so that they feel safe
Plan everything so that they can’t innovate
Make them believe they are becoming conscious through the expression and appreciation of Art.
Collect money for Robert’s agenda.

Personally both Robert’s and Girard’s stereotype obeys to similar characteristics:

They have awoken:
so they don’t express negative emotions,
They have control over themselves
They don’t “react” because they are not identified
They are always “proper”
They can keep their “aim” to awaken at the cost of everything else

Just like Daily Cardiac but as his name implies, he is not nearly as calm as he wishes to appear.

In reality,
-They don’t express negative emotions only during the shows in the Fellowship. They are extremely deranged in private, just like the Fellowship.
-The control is again only in public but it is a rigidity more than a control. The same rigidity that keeps them from addressing the deeper issues that are being discussed by simply demeanoring them as insignificant. THEY HAD TO MAKE THEM INSIGNIFICANT IN THEIR LIVES SO THAT THEY COULD PURSUE THEIR AGENDA. As they made it insignificant they became permissive about them both in themselves and in the Fellowship practices. The orgies are now rampant while the sex with even one member was effectively hidden at the beginning.

-They reacted throwing people out after the meeting, banning the freedom of expression,
Eliminating opposition while keeping the façade that everything was alright so as not to disturb more members or their conscience.
-They are “proper” during the show but in private they are deeply addicted to perversion in its many expressions.
-They seem to keep the aim of awakening for the School but the Aim is to keep you believing that the motivations are sincere and that they have given their lives to you but you have given your lives to them.
-They say they love you but in practice they are the only ones who are loved, respected, given space and everyone else must make sacrifices.

Higher alchemy or standards in impressions.
Like the Fellowship both these men look good and the lesson we can learn here is that false personality can look as good as true personality but like a cancer it’ll eventually kill the soul inside. This is very important because the notion at least I had about evil is that it would make people ugly and sad and to realize that it can express itself powerfully integrated is a big discovery. A fully developed false personality is as integrated as a fully developed true personality. The only difference is that it works with totally opposite principles and values. Instead of working for the well being of the community, it works for its own personal agenda and it can be both efficient and charming.

Order
Like the Fellowship both Robert and Girard are supposed to be orderly but Robert can’t even remember the last sentence he said and has to ask Asaf or whoever to remind him and Girard spends between two and three hours organizing his diary, planning. Their being is so deranged that they cannot conceive of freedom just like freedom cannot exist in the Fellowship. Freedom as in being present to surprises is unheard of because they cannot deal with surprises, just like the Fellowship. The time they had for freedom they each have to waste on planning their day like lunatics or having boys around him organizing his day in such a way that he can amply spoil them so that they are willing to let him fuck them after.

Intentionality
The obsessive alchemy of the Fellowship which is supposed to be intentionality is an aspect of the pathology in the community as much as its leaders. It is not the calm intentionality of someone that can deal with a dificult situation evenly, it is the obsessive insistence on a rigid form that can keep everyone busy while thinking they are making effort and therefore developing and the pathological behaviour that will throw anyone out for not keeping to the form.

Superflous art disguised as Art
Both Robert and Girard have to keep making things up to feel creative like any other human being and the Fellowship has to feed itself with some kind of art to have an outlet for its members. Robert is extremely creative in his obsessive conviction that the more palms you have per square inch the more like hollywood you can pretend to be and the more fake art you buy, the better a businessman you have become and Girard has centered his creativity around how many ways can he distort reality with reasoning. They are both extremely creative processes which, no matter how misconstrued, will keep the individual running apparently normally.

Collect money for the development of the Ark
Money. Robert spends it all and Girard gives it all up. The perfect combination. Robert wastes it in palm trees and cheap art (ask Collin about it) to feed the blind and Girard has to beg for a few more dollars for his treatments. The whole establishment can then be presented as legitimate but here is the rock on which it broke apart.

Girard sold his soul for the power and gave up the money. In doing so and serving as an example for the rest of the congregation he placed them all in a position in which their work was not valuable and the money that they gave did not mean to be distributed and retributed for a more conscious life within a community. Everyone but Robert had to struggle for money and in doing so, believe that they were giving up influence A, their greed and identification with life for the development of culture and standards within the Ark. Money was channeled towards Robert’s unlimited consciousness and ability to decide what was to be done with it. He used and misused it.

Life is never more practical than in the way we relate to money. Money is the practical expression of consciousness and the upside down and backwards way in which it is handled is an expression of our level of being or consciousness as human beings.

In the Fellowship it is the main tool with which people were gradually submitted. I’ve written long enough. We all know how money is snatched out of our pockets before it even gets there.

The tragedy, for this is nothing but a tragedy, is that just as the Fellowship closed its eyes on mankind, both Robert and Girard closed their eyes on the members. Just as the Fellowship belittled the rest of the world to inflate its position, both Robert, Girard and the new Dorian and Asaf and all those who ever played a role in the Fellowship, belittled the rest of the members with their actions. To be able to do this, they had to numb their emotional centers which expresses itself in their rigidity, their attachment to the form and the hierarchic authority because not one of them, not one single one of them is enough of an author to stand up for himself or herself. Developing yourself consciously is being able to do this in no matter what situation. No one needs a hierarchy to be. When you are, the hierarchies of the world vow before you because you are the incarnation of love. No one needs to be in a hierarchy in our world any more. We are all equally human no matter what our role is. The attachments to hierarchies is natural in the animal kingdom because it assures survival. Amongst human beings it assures injustice. There is no reason for injustice in a world in which there is enough for everyone if we are willing to share. The only thing that we need is Time and there is Time for all of us. Time is the first thing that is manipulated by people in hierarchies. Time, space, money. They are aspects of consciousness and they are the illusions that we must work our selves through.

Everything is connected, we just have to understand where things fit and that is what the blog is helping us do.

So long!

249. Opus 111 - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac:
I hope those statements are not examples of what you call verifications:

“I think angels must have appeared when world 3 came into being, a very long time ago no doubt.

I do believe that some men have ascended to the rank of angels.

Perhaps humanity was created in part to produce other angels.”

___________________________________

As others have mentioned before, your statement about members leaving because they forgot the founding principles of the school, the famous “what you came here for”, is mote than a bit disingenuous in my opinion.

The major problem with that statement is that there are very few reliable principles left in the FOF, and virtually none that the leader seems willing to stick to. Most of them, he has done away with, if not collectively, at least on his own life.

Has he not stated repeatedly in the past several years that “we” could not afford to be slowed down by the teachings of Gurdjeff and Ouspensky?

How do you see adherence to the principle of verification and absolute intolerance by the leadership to its results (as in expulsion of members who explore subjects that are not officially approved, or who come to conclusions and questions that are deemed anathema) as possibly compatible?

How do you see presence as being “essence conscious of
itself” (REB formulation), the stated need to develop a healthy and lively essence, and the systematic core destruction of essence the leader engages in with the most vulnerable of his members? Is that what we should understand is conscious love? Or are you ready to discount the testimonials of Simon, WhaleRider, Thomas and countless others as the ravings of weak and disgruntled ex-members, more interested in vitriolic statements against REB and FOF than in honoring the “founding principles” of the “school”?

How do you see REB view of conscience (“a bunch of useless I’s and eventually an obstacle to evolution” – I paraphrase Ames report) to be compatible with evolution, the kind you wish for yourself and one you would be willing to pursue and defend? Do you consider conscience to be one of the founding principles of “the work”?

Notwithstanding the fact that you find the environment and practices of the FOF very useful, do you consider willingly supporting someone who you know has harmed people and continues to do so, to constitute a potentially serious obstacle to your “evolution”, if not an irreparable one, the same way the 4th way states that extreme negative emotions might be? Or do you consider people who are disciplined, diligent and competent and are able to abstract themselves from the context and to extract the roses from the stinking pile, to be the perfect candidates to become ‘angels’?

Is that what the founding principles say and why I could no longer stay?
Etc… etc…

250. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 13, 2008

#224 Nigel: Self observation is the first step in understanding that we are not our thoughts. But silencing the mind is required in order to access anything other than our physical brain and even 10 minutes a day, a couple times a day, can have a transformative effect.

Within the silence is where one finds intuitive thoughts, which I believe are more connected to our ‘source’. There are more healing opportunities given to the practitioner or the patient when accessing this quiet place because it exists beyond the physical brain or our typical plane of existence. No muddling going on there.

251. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 13, 2008

#250: One more thing: Intuitive ‘thoughts’ could be misunderstood. Intuition can be experienced without thought, and is experienced more like a feeling than a thought.

252. Opus 111 - August 13, 2008

Laura#243

“BTW, if the inner meaning of keys is always the same, why bother to keep on keying? Seems like a waste of precious Divine Presence time.
Just keep counting those seconds, folks!”

That is what I was trying to say in relation to DC call on relying on verifications: If you are only allowed to verify the dogma in place, what is the point of verification?

253. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 13, 2008

#252:

Laura#243

“BTW, if the inner meaning of keys is always the same, why bother to keep on keying? Seems like a waste of precious Divine Presence time.
Just keep counting those seconds, folks!”

‘That is what I was trying to say in relation to DC call on relying on verifications: If you are only allowed to verify the dogma in place, what is the point of verification?’

Keying is a distraction which takes one away and not closer to personal verifications.

254. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 13, 2008

I think REB gets first prize in the Art of Distraction.

255. Reality Check - August 13, 2008

There is no better revenge against the forces of injustice than generating a few minutes of non-identification, however before that is possible the wrathful avenger has to cease to exist. There is no satisfaction in vengeance because the personality that is identified with an injustice is eternally inconsolable.

256. veronicapoe - August 13, 2008

That is what I was trying to say in relation to DC call on relying on verifications: If you are only allowed to verify the dogma in place, what is the point of verification?

The whole idea of “verification” is flawed because it presupposes the truth of the material “to be verified.”

A better term, one which does not presuppose the truth of any ideology, is “reality testing.” We are free to discard concepts that fail “reality testing.” No one is free to discard “work ideas” that one has “not yet verified.”

You have “not yet verified” that idea yet? Then your indoctrination is not yet complete!

257. Vena - August 13, 2008

I think we all know that what most fellowship members call verification is simply belief. Bearing that in mind it is pointless to ask for a explanation of the process of verification from Daily Cardiac or any other current members. We are arguing with religious devotees which usually results in polarization, name calling, etc. The only value it may have is that it could start the questioning process in some who are doubting.

258. Reality Check - August 13, 2008

Always be guarded against mistaking the distraction of inspiration for any kind of substantial verification.

259. Draco - August 13, 2008

244. Vena wrote
Draco: Excellent post. I hope that Daily Cardiac will address your points below directly and specifically and not find a way to ignore these issues. If he or any other current follower could really look at these things and think about them it should make staying and supporting the corruption very difficult.
______________________________________________________________
Daily Cardiac’s replies will likely be something along these lines:-

1. He’s obviously a sex addict. I’m very suspicious of the inner life or the spiritual status of a man who spends so much of his time and energy recruiting new partners, maintaining a harem of dozens and dozens of partners, a man who will only have sex with people over whom he has an unfair advantage (i.e., his students) who has to have sex several times a day at regular times even though he cannot maintain an erection without the use of Viagra and the like.
DC: I don’t believe that Robert is a sex addict.
2. He has no concern about the effect or potential psychological effect that his actions have on his heterosexual male sexual partners.
DC: I don’t believe that this is the case.
3. He uses coercion to obtain sexual partners.
DC: I don’t believe that this is the case either.
4. He spends a considerable amount of time demeaning the body and its role in our lives and yet he indulges in the most physically extreme sexual practices.
DC: This is formatory thinking.
5. I tried to put myself in his shoes and ask myself if I could truly be present to having sex with sexual partners who were obviously unwilling, upset, disgusted or traumatized by the experience. I could not. Present or not, I simply couldn’t do it.
DC: Robert is a conscious being and it is not possible for an ex-student to understand him.
6. If I continued to follow his teaching would I find myself with similar problems to Robert, if on a smaller scale.
DC: That is not a concern that I have.

260. Draco - August 13, 2008

Whalerider: yes, point taken about using the term “ex-student.”

261. Elena - August 13, 2008

From Laura’s post

The Fellowship: “After a period of sincere effort, a member comes to understand that awakening is neither the practice of one exercise nor the overcoming of one obstacle alone. It is a way of life. Awakening has become the way of life of our Teacher, and he invites us to join him in this life.”

It is unbelievable that they’ve actually written this. “AWAKENING HAS BECOME THE WAY OF LIFE OF OUR TEACHER”

There you have it! Couldn’t have said it better ourselves. They are so brainwashed they think admitting something like this is both hilarious and pathetic.

262. Elena - August 13, 2008

Sorry about that:

They are so brainwashed they don’t see how admitting this is both hilarious and pathetic.

263. lauralupa - August 13, 2008

Opus 111, WULSWU, this quote is from Robert Earl Burton’s book “Self-Remembering”:

“You must reach a point where you stop expecting to receive messages about being present. You must grip self-remembering and stop talking about it; you must be present!”

hmmmmm… interesting, is it not?

also found some more pearls of wisdom on the book’s website. One is Robert’s definition of objectivity:

“Everything is relative and subjective except one’s self. When one is present, one is objective; that is, one has no other object but one’s self.”

On his relationship with memories (for anyone wondering why he doesn’t seem to care about old friends and past mistakes):

“In certain respects I have a terrible memory-from trying to be present and not in the past or future. Many things are forgotten, but this is a small sacrifice compared to being present. We don’t sacrifice anything of value when we try to awaken-death is the miserable lot of life, but all the moments in which we penetrated the present are indestructible. As for the rest, it is only wasted time. I try not to be enticed by reminiscence. When pleasant or unpleasant memories try to occupy the living present, one can glance at them for a few seconds, or ignore them, and then return to the present.”

On the creation of higher centers – wow, it’s all so clear now:

“Plutarch said, “The present offers itself to us only for the second and then eludes the senses.” The present eludes the senses because consciousness is not functions. Our higher centers are not of the senses, but we try to use the senses to create higher centers. Just looking at an arrangement of flowers, remaining aware of your self, produces higher centers.”

This one for the Conscious Olympics:

“One gains many treasures as one changes one’s level of being, and the greatest treasure is the ability to penetrate the present more frequently and deeply. One can have everything if one is content with the present, nothing else is as exciting. There is a great victory to be attained, and we are winning.”

A couple of wonderful examples of clear thinking and elegant prose (were there any professional editors at work on this book?):

“Most men think they don’t have time to be present; they imagine that it’s designed for special circumstances. Try to be where you are and not allow the past to permeate the present. The past is but a word, while the present is a shifting reality. You can only leave the past through the present, and through the present you work for the future. Our work is always now. We have nowhere to go but the present, for all roads lead to the living moment.

Relentlessly focus on the present as best as you can. If it is a few seconds or a moment each day, be grateful. The present need not be more, nor other, than it is. As we grow older, we have to separate from our inability, at times, to be present. One of the best ways to be present is to separate from the disappointment that comes from realizing we have not been present. Our hearts are so resilient.”

Finally, I leave you with this dessert for thought:

“What does the term self-remembering mean? It means that your dormant self is remembering to be awake.”

A good title for this book might have been:
“Self-Remembering : A Path to Forgetting Everything and Everyone Else”

264. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

263. lauralupa

Presence without context is sleep.

Wonder why he left that out? Could it be that without context he hasn’t and can’t do any wrong?

265. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 13, 2008

#263: Holy Moly, now that’s just a bunch a baloney! MEOW!

266. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - August 13, 2008

From #263 REB’s book: ‘One can glance at them for a few seconds, or ignore them, and then return to the present.’ This sentence is just chillling.

267. Elena - August 13, 2008

Greg: Always be guarded against mistaking the distraction of inspiration for any kind of substantial verification.

That sounds like some kind of dogma that I never want to be a part of. Inspiration is evoked when one’s verifications are solid enough on whatever subject it is.

268. My4bits - August 13, 2008

To Daily Cardiac, and his or her friends:

You have surrendered your will to a person who puts his self-interest first.

Discuss amongst yourselves…

269. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

267. Elena

You’re opening a can of worms.

270. lauralupa - August 13, 2008

this left a much better taste in my soul. yum yum!
Greg, I wish you lots of goo!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BE5M8743a1s&feature=rec-fresh

271. Daily Cardiac - August 13, 2008

To Ellen 216:

Ellen, thank you for the kind thoughts. You are correct, we do know each other and we have shared affection in the past; those moments are alive in me as much today as when they were first experienced. And I don’t know if you really know who I am, but you are right that I’m not GH or FB.

Regarding your question –

“But to continue our dialog, if you are at all interested to do so, I was struck by this sentence: “My belief is that the desire to leave the FoF first of all begins internally, in the form of a general disillusionment with what one thought awakening meant or entailed, and then an external reason to leave is attached to that disillusionment.” In general, I agree with at least the first part of your sentence. I’d like however to take a deeper look at that first part, ” in the form of a general disillusionment with what one thought awakening meant or entailed”. Do you mean to infer that someone leaves the Fellowship because they become disillusioned with what they thought awakening meant or entailed – as presented by Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends? Or do you mean to say that someone leaves the Fellowship because they become disillusioned with what they thought awakening meant or entailed – period?”

I don’t think the disillusionment can be separated into two camps — presented by RB or general/otherwise. For me it was mixed. When I joined the FoF my magnetic center was thoroughly disgusted and fed up with a second state existence. I thought people became “conscious” in a few months or at best a year. I didn’t count on an entity in me opposing consciousness as much or more than the noble part of me wanted it.

I got bad news when an older student informed me that at best it took a lifetime to become conscious. Then I got worse news when I was told that only 7 from our school would realize it in this lifetime.

I was totally deflated at first and I can see that I had two ways to go, take something positive out of the new information, or allow myself to continue to be defeated. Some people bridge that divide others don’t.

I bridged it by realizing that I could be conscious moment to moment and if I was remembering myself I was doing all I could do in a given moment. Buoyed by that realization I was determined to put Self Remembering first and everything else would fall into place.

I also know (because several have expressed their strong displeasure on the blog) that it’s a big deal to some people that it takes lifetimes to gain access to the third state permanently. I guess that attitude reveals our inability to be patient. As Robert used to say – Christ was once on his third lifetime.

But I think the real disillusionment comes independent of what I just described. The real disillusionment comes when one by one we realize we cannot have awakening on our own terms. When we first join the school we have an imaginary picture of what consciousness is, where we are in relation to it, what is required, everything.

Slowly, over the years, we realize how ‘off” our compass is. And this realization/disillusionment which of itself is good and healthy can be devastating to our psyche.

What I came to realize is I assumed consciousness was additive, that is you keep what you are and add consciousness to it. But actually consciousness is subtractive. Like Michaelangelo’s sculpture you remove the marble that is not necessary to reveal the figure.

When we remove what is not consciousness we make a space for it to fill.

But this is much easier to say than to accomplish. What has to go is this imaginary picture, composed of attitudes, habits, fears, programming, all of which I would call illusions of objective reality.

If I could only leave only one sentence for the blog it would be:

No one can awaken (become enlightened) on their own terms.

It is the impossibility of all impossibilities. We must give up our small will. Who do we give it up to? Higher forces directly, or a mediator.

That is why it is imperative that we verify a higher benevolent power. Call it what you will. Or we must find a guide, teacher who we trust and believe has made the journey himself. In this case we still must have verified a higher power, because this guide is working for that power, doing the bidding of the higher power, not his own bidding.

As far as the last paragraph of your post; I cannot say much about valid reasons to leave. I have no valid reason to leave the FoF as I feel I have verified it is a real school. It provides me with the best environment to work. Any other environment would be less than ideal and produce less results than I want.

I’m not suggesting anyone should stay in the FoF and gut it out against their own desire. Everyone needs to find their own way. I make no judgments about people who leave. If leaving is good for someone it’s also good for the FoF because everyone ends up where they need to be.

The first step in the journey towards consciousness is to attempt to know what is good for oneself and give up the illusion that one can know what is good for another.

272. Rear View Mirror - August 13, 2008

Those comments (263) often sound like a buzzword generator to me. Take any combination of the words and move them around, and you’ll find nothing more or less meaningful or substantive. Deliver the words with your hands folded in front of your chest, and with your eyes facing down at the table in pretense of humility. And you, too, can be a guru or a preacher.

Be in the living moment. Accept the Son of God into your life. The past is but a word.

And I also find it interesting that Burton disengages from the past. The past holds some very uncomfortable truths about him.

273. Rear View Mirror - August 13, 2008

DC: “I’m not suggesting anyone should stay in the FoF and gut it out against their own desire. Everyone needs to find their own way. I make no judgments about people who leave. If leaving is good for someone it’s also good for the FoF because everyone ends up where they need to be.”

Nice try, but that’s not the FOF doctrine. People are always discouraged from even considering a different philosophy of life, let alone “finding their own way.”

274. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

270. Daily Cardiac

How original and evolved of you to so glibly roll out the party line without any real thought or being connected to it. Other people’s words. You could easily be replaced with a tape recorder that loops the same inane shit over and over until the sheep tend to believe it. We listened to that same propaganda for years, until we realized what it was , shit. It’s not until one steps away for awhile that one comes to experience how it really stinks. While you’re in it, you convince yourself it’s roses.

The length of your explanation doesn’t mean shit, and the substance is nonexistent, but rock on, it’s your farce.

275. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

270 Daily Cardiac

And, I would add, no-one can awaken on REBs terms…..do you know anyone…..Nigel.

276. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

Not addressed to anyone in particular, but a few will hear…..

There is a song, written some years ago, that may not have reached the USA – “The patience of angels…..in a room, in a house, on a street…..”

There is a set-up to be played out ,in court with REB defending himself, if necessary, and that requires the ‘patience of angels, who work with True People. Keep going, genuine bloggers!…..Nigel.

277. nigel harris price - August 13, 2008

271 Rear View Mirror

And I could just as well hear REB saying – “Be in the Present, and your entire set of actions will be justifiable”…..Nigel.

278. Elena - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac:”But I think the real disillusionment comes independent of what I just described. The real disillusionment comes when one by one we realize we cannot have awakening on our own terms. When we first join the school we have an imaginary picture of what consciousness is, where we are in relation to it, what is required, everything.

Slowly, over the years, we realize how ‘off” our compass is. And this realization/disillusionment which of itself is good and healthy can be devastating to our psyche.”

Wonderful brainwashing dear, keep convincing them and yourself of how off your own compass is and how good Robert’s is, they’ll raise send you to another travelling teacher trip next month.

Bruce, I know, why delay it?

279. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

277. Elena

“Bruce, I know, why delay it?”

I’ll give you an analogy. The guy who stands on the subway platform all day, and every time a young woman walks by he whips out his dick. The women don’t want to see it, but that doesn’t enter into the equation because the exhibitionist has absolutely no sense boundaries and no conscience in their lives. And if a woman stops to engage the person on their territory it’s the same as her saying “And you call that a dick?” Where does it get ya?

Applies to DC too.

280. Elena - August 13, 2008

D.C. “I bridged it by realizing that I could be conscious moment to moment and if I was remembering myself I was doing all I could do in a given moment. Buoyed by that realization I was determined to put Self Remembering first and everything else would fall into place.”

Good to grant you that in that personality of yours you believed and constructed things this way but Self Remembering turned into Remembering Robert and one’s you made a king of him, everything was forced into place. FORCED by throwing people out. Forced by closing the Fellowship up and pretending that it was a conscious school with a teacher that doesn’t even talk to his students but lectures and dominates them.

No matter how innocently you fucked yourself up you are responsible for the damages and they are too many to keep buffering it, you fools.

281. Elena - August 13, 2008

Bruce,
I guess I trust your instincts more than mine on this one too but the difference between you and me is that I’ll always give people a chance, many chances and if it is only being insulted what I am up for I am willing to pay that price. Many of you have already trained me for that here. If he could hurt me physically I would not be so open but this is a blog and words give us more chances and equally change us.

There is almost a guarantee that he already has a rope around his neck if he gets too abusive, maybe he can end up participating without doing so and it would raise us all. Just like Nigel did in a very different situation.

282. brucelevy - August 13, 2008

280. Elena

I suppose it’s possible.

283. Elena - August 13, 2008

P.S. Bruce, being able to participate is healing in itself even if one doesn’t. It is the entire difference with the Fellowship Cult and that alone makes it worth trying.

284. Reality Check - August 13, 2008

Or…a guru stands on a platform with his…

Why do some avoid jumping on it while some don’t?

The answer is inherent character and lack of it.

285. Skeptical Optimist - August 13, 2008

263 lauralupa

A couple of wonderful examples of clear thinking and elegant prose (were there any professional editors at work on this book?):

rotfl, laura, yes there was a professional editor at work, but keep in mind what the “manuscript” looked like. The entire book is pretty much a fabrication, anyway. Another member initiated the project and gathered the material, sorting the stuff by subject. Many of the “paragraphs” were simply mashups of “thoughts” on the same subject. This was the most difficult “editing” job I ever undertook, partly because by that time I already found the material very objectionable.

Anyway, it’s pretty funny to look at that stuff now, I’m sure I haven’t seen it since it went to press.

JoelF

286. Rear View Mirror - August 13, 2008

276. nigel: “And I could just as well hear REB saying – “Be in the Present, and your entire set of actions will be justifiable” ”

Easily. The main thing is to make sure the letter “P” in the word “present” is capitalized, and you can do Anything You Please and not be held accountable.

Wait… You must also add the word “Divine” to it.

—————-

I predict…

One day this will be “Apollo.” All we need are 44 actors and an equally impressive theme park design:

http://www.theholylandexperience.com/

Reserve your space NOW.

287. Elena - August 13, 2008

Daily Cardiac:
“If I could only leave only one sentence for the blog it would be:

No one can awaken (become enlightened) on their own terms.”

PEOPLE WHO ABUSE OTHERS ARE NOT TEACHERS.

No one is only on his or her own terms when he or she submits his or her will to the well being of the community. First line naturally connects to second line and second to third which never happened in the Fellowship of Friends.

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THOSE DISCONNECTIONS WITHOUT BUFFERING THEM?

No one can develop in anyone else’s own terms, each one has to struggle with his own impediments through work on balancing his own centres with the aid of a system and people to help him. Mature enough individuals can help each other without a Teacher that stands above them abusing them. People who abuse are not teachers. Robert and the Fellowship unbalanced people’s centres more than they were already and with that unbalance brought them below the level they were in before they joined. It does more harm than good.

Not one of you is a balanced individual inside. Not Girard, Steven, linda, Karen or anybody else, not Kevin, or Philip or john, you are all terribly unbalanced people and that is what you made of the rest of us. Healing from your damages will take us a long time.

288. Skeptical Optimist - August 13, 2008

263, lauralupa

But look at the persistence of this rubbish. The following is from 270, Daily Cardshuffler:

The real disillusionment comes when one by one we realize we cannot have awakening on our own terms. When we first join the school we have an imaginary picture of what consciousness is, where we are in relation to it, what is required, everything.

This is a person attempting to interact with someone he knows and respects and trying to make himself understood. However, the “mental virus” is alive and well. This could have come verbatim from REB’s book, it’s just as programmatic and nonsensical, void of any meaning and particularly void of any interaction between the “thoughts” and the individual presenting them.

You gotta laugh.

JoelF

289. fofblogmoderator - August 14, 2008

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