jump to navigation

Fellowship of Friends Discussion, part 35 May 10, 2008

Posted by Pavel in Uncategorized.
trackback

Welcome to the newest addition to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.

For previous parts of the discussion please click on home and scroll down, or move to the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, or to AnimamRecro for the very beginning. For a more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.

The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up for the Greater Fellowship website and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way here.

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.

For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.

This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.

If you decide to interact as well as digest, this is where you can start.

And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.

Excessive abuse, personal attacks, as well as deliberate attempts to unmask people taking part in the discussion will result in a warning followed by a ban from the discussion.

Advertisements

Comments

1. arthur - May 10, 2008

I just read the Alexander Pope work submitted by Lauraupa and I’ll Never Tell. I’ve read it before. And, I dont remember Pope being in the heavenly 44. I really enjoyed that. Thanks!!

2. arthur - May 10, 2008

Sorry for the spelling Lauralupa. Oh, and I’ve never read it before. For me, worth saving.

3. ton - May 10, 2008

somebody 285 pg. 34 thanks for that excerpt on “repairing the soul” from Janja Lalich… it’s “spot on.”

this is from an article that examines the ‘nature vs nurture’ question in relation to morality — how much of it is innate or learned… pertains in some respects to the not-so-subtle and “instrumental” violence, the the form of “spiritual rape” perpetrated by Robert Burton (and this may be merely restating the obvious):

“Anti-social personality disorder is a catch-all label for whatever it is that causes some people to habitually violate our more serious social norms, typically those that are codified in our legal system (DSM IV, 1994). Psychopaths not only engage in anti-social behavior, but exhibit a pathological degree of callousness, lack of empathy or emotional depth, and lack of genuine remorse for their anti-social actions. In more intuitive terms, the difference between APD and psychopathy is something like the difference between a hot-headed barroom brawler and a cold-blooded killer. Psychopaths appear to be special in a number of ways (Blair, 2001). First, while the behavioral traits that are used to diagnose APD correlate with IQ and socioeconomic status, the traits that are distinctive of psychopaths do not (Hare, et al.,1991). Moreover, the behaviors associated with APD tend to decline with age, while the psychopath’s distinctive social-emotional dysfunction holds steady (Harpur and Hare, 1994)…. First, positive parenting strategies appear to influence the behavior of non-psychopaths, whereas psychopaths appear to be impervious in this regard (Wootton, et al., 1997). Second, and probably not incidentally, the violence of psychopaths is more often instrumental rather than impulsive (Blair, 2001)…. psychopathic individuals appear to have a diminished capacity for emotional empathy. An earlier study (Blair, 1995) revealed that psychopaths, unlike ordinary criminals, have an impoverished appreciation of what is known as the “moral”/ “conventional” distinction (Turiel, 1983). Most people believe that some social rules may be modified by authority figures while others may not. For example, if the teacher says that it’s okay to speak without raising one’s hand (“conventional” violation), then it’s okay to do so, but if the teacher says that it’s okay to hit people (“moral” violation), then it’s still not okay to hit people. Psychopaths seem to lack an intuitive understanding of this moral/conventional distinction, and it has been suggested that they perceive all social rules as mere rules (Blair, 1995). The clinical and empirical picture of a psychopathic individual is of someone who has some form of emotional deficit…” etc, etc…
Excerpts from: ‘Cognitive Neuroscience and the Structure of the Moral Mind’

4. veramente - May 10, 2008

# 263 Ton (page 34)

….I was relatively young, energetic and hopeful when I left at 27 years of age… I still think leaving was the single most difficult thing I have ever done but apparently I had a spark of hope and the necessary support to get through it. I think at any age and regardless of the duration of one’s “tenure” in the Fellowship of Friends, HOPE and SUPPORT are essential.
__________________________________________________
Ton, you were almost a kid when you joined the FOF, as you said in your post you were in for 6 years and left still fairly young giving you hopefully a better chance to rebuild your life.
Some of us gave everything up for this “school”, I was in for about 10 years, in the prime of my life. I left with nothing and in a state of extreme financial poverty.
There was some support at the time, and more than grieving I felt a lot of anger mixed with confusion as well, I was already used to have a hard life in Renaissance, so the next step in life was hard but had more to look forward to.

5. lauralupa - May 10, 2008

In case you missed it on tv, you can watch the documentary about Michael Travesser and his cult here.

http://www.travesser.info/site/info/doc/doc.php

6. ton - May 10, 2008

veramente 4
you mention experiencing anger as opposed to grief, I’ve gone through various phases, at first it was depression and a form of anger directed “inward” manifesting as self-destructive behavior. I blamed myself for the folly of the fellowship experience and punished myself accordingly… I still wrestle with the issue of my own culpability. many posts here are a reflection back, to the past, and I think something may be learned as a result… but in escaping from the trap I think a key is “to look forward” as you say.
In the immortal words of jesse jackson “keep hope alive!”

And this, towards freedom —
from a favorite pop-group, the shins…
“We’ve taken on a climb And it’s long enough to put the best of us on our backs Walking up a slide And there are those we know who’d have us five miles off the track.”

“Just last night I woke from some unconscionable dream
And had it nailed to my forehead again
To keep this boat afloat
There are things you can’t afford to know
So I save all my breath for the sails.

But you’ll find those lingering voices
Are just your ego’s attempt to make it all clean and nice
And make a moron out of you
Walking a bridge with weakening cables
Huddled up in fear and hate because we know our fate
And it’s a lot to put us through.

Most ideas turn to dust
As there are few in which we all can trust
Haven’t you noticed I’ve been shedding all of mind?
So let’s abandon that track
And leave our fathers fighting in a sack
Cause we are way too wise-assed for that.

You might find some fools at your doorstep
Hustling the latest changes to the book
That’s the strangest in an attempt to multiply
Marionettes on weakening cables
Huddled up with fear and hate
Because they know their fate and it’s a lot to put them through.

We’ve taken on a climb
And it’s long enough to put the best of us on our backs
Walking up a slide
And there are those we know who’d have us five miles off the track.

But you’ll find those lingering voices
Are just your ego’s attempt to make it all clean and nice
And make a moron out of you
Crossing the brindge on weakening cables
Huddled up with fear and hate because we know our fate
And it’s a lot to put us through”

7. ton - May 10, 2008

laura 5 re: travesser, I’d heard about this but hadn’t seen the film… thanks for the link… a graphic example of delusional thinking and shows how it starts with ‘guru’ — the father figure… he and his thinking are the “vector” for the disease which spreads to the susceptible… the body-language and facial expressions show how deeply infected (hypnotized) are the followers of this particular “strain” of mind-control. albeit in a different package… without perspective from my own cult experience, this film might seem totally incredible, in other words, un-fucking-believable! the messiah! what a load of preposterous horse shit… it’s pretext for controlling the gullible and a pretense for scoring virgin “nookie.” what was it that p.t. barnum said…. on the other hand, you live and learn… that’s the idea anyway.

8. ton - May 10, 2008

please forgive the indulgence… laura you have your ‘arcade fire,’
today mine is the shins… they write some good lyrics and “catchy” tunes… this is about existential angst with a positive resolution… whalerider, you’ll appreciate this one: “know your onion”

shut out, pimpled and angry.
i quietly tied all my guts into knots.
gave up on trying to make them,
i figured it’d take them too long to look up and besides…

it was undeniably clear to me i don’t know why
when every other part of life seemed locked behind shutters
i knew what worthless dregs we’ve always been.

lucked out and found my favorite records
lying in wait at the birmingham mall.
the songs that i heard,
the occasional book
were the only fun i ever took.
and i got on with making myself.
the trick is just making yourself.

but when they’re parking their cars on your chest
you’ve still got a view of the summer sky
to make it hurt twice when your restless body
caves to its whims
and suddenly struggles to take flight…

three thousand miles north east
i left all my friends at the morning bus stop shaking their heads.
“what kind of life you dream of? you’re allergic to love.”
yes i know but i must say in my own defense
it’s been undeniably dear to me, i don’t know why
when every other part of life seemed locked behind shutters
i knew the worthless dregs we are,
the selfless, loving saints we are,
the melting, sliding dice we’ve always been.

9. brucelevy - May 10, 2008

5. lauralupa

That was incredible. Thank you.

10. Yesri baba - May 10, 2008

Thanks Laura for the link.

I couldn’t find a link to the movie but found this link to starting your own cult. Really funny in a sad sort of way. Here is an excerpt:

Starting Your Own Cult, with Dr. Emeril Lazarus
It’s true, people are the most important asset of any organization. This is especially true of a cult. How can you attract and retain the people you need to maintain the lifestyle God has Decreed for you?

People skills can be broken down into two main groupings: attracting people, and then crushing their individuality to your will. You certainly don’t want to recruit odd-balls and freaks. They give a bad image to your group, and more importantly, to you. The best bet seems to be attract “normal” people and then re-educate them to your Revelations, Beliefs and Received Heirarchy.

Some clever marketing is in order here. Although it seems obvious to you that your Epiphany has placed you in a Privileged Position, and your Received Word has the Radiance of Utmost Authority to it, others have to be brought slowly to the same Realization. Remember, they didn’t receive the Revelation–you did.

As your recruiters comb the streets and alleys, the bars and pool halls, they should keep a cheery disposition. They, as the front-line Representatives of You, must be squeeky clean and project the Aura of Infinite Love your group is (or will be) known for. Make sure their clothes are clean, their teeth brushed and their hair neatly combed. A good idea is for them to have an unofficial uniform, like new T-shirts, jeans and black high-top runners. Casual looks better and is less intimidating to Potential Recruits than a stuffy suit or a smelly orange-dyed burlap sack. After several years of experimenting with my cult’s recruiting team I found that white T-shirts work better than darker colours–people are naturally attracted to the Light.

The opening line is the most important contact you can make. The Devil has instilled such a fear in everyone not to listen to the Truth that it must now be disguised. Although it is tempting to launch into an ernest Discussion of Truth with anyone who will turn their head remember you and your recruitment team are here to Recruit, not Preach. That comes later, after they have been Prepared.

Try to involve the Potential Recruit with an activity that coincides with their own interests, like a “business meeting”, or some sort of “activist planning session”. If you have access to a hall or other meeting venue you could have some sort of film or “Bible Study”. Once they’re hooked you just have to reel them in with Love, sometimes cynically described by the Unbelievers as love-bombing.

The recruit should be asked lots of questions and listened to with lots of smiles and nods. The key is to show you care, as you Truly Do. The Potential Recruit has a need, as we all do, for Love. If you provide that, allowing your Interior Light of Infinite Grace and Understanding to Illuminate their shallow lives, they will follow you willingly.

Before they leave from this all-important First Meeting get some kind of Commitment from them, although it may not be phrased as such. Ask them to do some small chore for you, like photocopying a pamphlet–preferably one of yours.

Illuminated by your Most Gracious and Ineffable One-ness with the All, and tied with a Commitment To Help, the Potential Recruit will be hooked to your cult and be easily pulled in for Cleansing.

I hope this brief introduction will help you become a Fisher of men and women.

11. WhaleRider - May 10, 2008

lauralupa: #5

The Michael Travesser piece was chilling. Thank you. I highly recommend it to everyone.

Jeff, Michael’s son, reminded me so much of Miles when I first met him long before he left the cult, second in command with the beard and slow deliberate language pattern, that I started having an anxiety attack with tears welling up in my eyes.

The part that really hit home with me was how a cult leader can manipulate his followers into submission with a prophecy about the end of the world. If the world is going to end soon, what matters? Laws don’t matter, family doesn’t matter, it is all going to hell. I would say that was a factor is suspending my moral values and submitting to Robert’s sexual advances. And it’s like the same suspension of values that happens in a prison. If you are in prison for life, what does it matter who does what to whom?

The whole “god commanding me to have sex” with his son’s wife (apparently on numerous occasions) made me want to puke. Travesser is a great example of what Robert would be like if he was straight.

12. Yesri baba - May 10, 2008

More from ‘Starting your own cult’

Dr. Lazarus is one of the True Prophets and one who has Received direct Communications from the Ethereal Host.

Over his impressive career, he has started several cults, and seen at least two through completion and Removal to other Planes of Existance.

Dr. Lazarus brings his unique pragmatic approach to help You, the beginning cult leader, make His vision a reality. Dr. Lazarus has graciously provided You with the following Transcriptions of Enlightenment that should help get You started on your Divine Quest.
Expanding Your Cult Through Franchising
Written by Dr. Emeril Lazarus
Starting Your Own Cult, with Dr. Emeril Lazarus
Growth is everything! With enough new members coming in, each one turning over their worldly possessions, you’ll soon be swimming in pools filled with cold hard cash–all for the Good of the World and the Greater Glory of His Word as You interpret It.

But your own community will hardly be large enough to absorb all the new arrivals you’ll need for this Dream or Vision to become a Reality. You’ll need to expand in other areas, other cities. How can you do this and still maintain the absolute authority you crave and that your organization demands? The answer comes, not surprisingly, from the world of fast food–franchising.

With the proper set-up you will only have to maintain control over the “owners” of each franchise you allow to be established. I put “owners” in quotation marks because they will own nothing–you will own them!

Let’s look at a sample scenario. Suppose you are the Divine Inspiration and First Citizen of the Sons Of Divine Order and Majesty (SODOM), and that your cult is ready to expand into other cities. Ideally your organization has been around for a few years and has an established church and bunker with an effective recruiting team. It’s also important that you have a successful sustainable revenue model–one that’s not dependent only on donations from new recruits.

One option open to SODOM would be to entrust one or several of your lieutenants to start up a new branch in another city. The advantage to this approach is that the people starting up the location are already familiar with the product and are firmly under your Iron Thumb of Absolute Authority. However, their will, having been absolutely crushed during their indoctrination, will no longer allow them to be flexible to deal with unexpected challenges. They will lack the charisma necessary to carry out Your Will. In a word, they will be insipid and weak leaders.

You will find yourself spread thin supervising your staff, correcting their Errors and instilling the enthusiasm necessary in whatever recruits they manage to bring in.

More importantly than this, however, is if the new location does not Take Root, if the Devil is too firmly entrenched in this Den of Iniquity, the parent organization will still have to pay the expenses of closing down shop and pulling out of the area.

Contrast this to a franchise system where potential area leaders are recruited for their business acument and personal charisma.

During special training sessions they are carefully inculcated into the Mysteries of Your Divine Revelation.

The franchisees front the capital needed to build your organization, in fact they’ll pay you a handsome fee for the privilege to do so. They will also give you an annual percentage from their haul. And you, of course, will own their souls entirely. They assume all the risks associated with developing an organization, allowing you to concentrate on what you do best–developing their inner wealth while they shed themselves of their worldly possessions.

In the unfortunate event that the new location fails it is the franchisee who is left holding the bag–you just revoke his license for not paying the appropriate fees and walk away!

The choice is clear. When you’re ready for expansion consider setting up a franchise system.

I am beginning to think this Fellowship of Friends enterprise might be a cult.

13. Associated Press - May 10, 2008

Not travesser, travesty:
A travesty, also known as a Burlesque prior to Burlesque Theatre becoming associated with striptease, is a form of musical parody in which a piece is re-arranged into a style very different from that for which it was originally known.
According to Wikipedia.

Way(ne) Bent (aka: Michael Travesser)
Strong City: Inside A Cult:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/inside/3401/Photos?#tab-Videos/05168_00
Doomsday cult leader Michael Travesser prophesied that the world would end October 31, 2007 — but what happened? Go inside Travesser’s cult to meet its leader, its followers and the dynamics that shape cult behavior.

Young girls speak about laying naked with a cult leader and self-proclaimed son of God, Michael Travesser.

Same play, different props, different people, different sexual/social dynamic, but same sad psycho/sociopathic behaviour.

14. Rear View Mirror - May 10, 2008

About the Michael Travesser documentary (thanks, lauralupa), I’m still creeped out by such comparisons to Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends. We were different, right?

Uh, no, we weren’t different. And we aren’t different. This documentary makes me squirm as much as anything I’ve seen on the blog.

I’m not sure that most people are aware of this, but when Burton’s prophesy failed — the one about California “falling into the ocean” in April 1998 — he later changed the dates on more than one occasion. His second and third predictions were a bit more tentative, but hearing that Travesser also changed his prediction to December 15, 2007 — man, what an uncanny similarity to Burton.

Another thought about the predictions. The fact that they’ve come and gone leaves the Fellowship of Friends with no real “role” on the earth. There’s no “ark,” there’s no new “civilization” being settled in Oregon House, Calif.

But…

We do have The Sequence. We now have a Great School that gathers the ancient, hidden knowledge of the Egyptians and unveils it for humanity. Now “the school” — just months after a string of failed predictions — has its new “role” for humanity: unveiling the Sequence for all.

It’s no mere coincidence that “the sequence” and the “thirty imperishible stars” arrived on the scene just as the predictions become a thing of the past.

Question is, when The Sequence “fails,” (if it already hasn’t failed), what will be next? Burton will have to come up with something else. Short of that, he realizes it may be the end of the cult.

15. X-ray - May 10, 2008

5. lauralupa – May 10, 2008
In case you missed it on tv, you can watch the documentary about Michael Travesser and his cult here.

http://www.travesser.info/site/info/doc/doc.php
———————————————————-
Thank you Laura. Shocking video. Those gurus are criminals and all of them must share a prison sell together.

16. X-ray - May 11, 2008

prison cell

17. arthur - May 11, 2008

I just finished watching the Michael Travesser piece. I wanted to see what they looked liked.

I think it was the great philosopher/prophet Frank Zappa who told his 14 year old daughter Moon Zappa, that if someone approached her carrying a Bible to turn and run run like hell.

Which just reminded me of the day a father, young son (10) and a unrelated woman came knocking on my door one Saturday morning.

For the first minute I was polite. Then he started grating on me questioning my beliefs or non-beliefs. I finally blurted out,
“wait a minute, let tell you something. If I should die right now and find myself in Heaven surrounded by a bunch of Jehovah’s Witnesses that would be hell for me”.

He responds, “can I come back?” I say, “please dont”. At least I said please.

18. nigel harris price - May 11, 2008

From Ruskin ‘Frondes Agrestes’…..

“A great Idealist never can be egotistic. The whole of his power depends upon his losing sight of his own existence, and becoming a mere witness and mirror of truth, and a scribe of visions, – always passive in sight, passive in utterance, lamenting continually that he cannot completely reflect nor clearly utter all he has seen, – not by any means a proud state for a man to be in. But the MAN WHO HAS NO INVENTION (you know who – nhp) is always setting things in order, and putting the world to rights, and mending, and beautifying, and pluming himself on his doings, as supreme in all ways”.

19. xeeena - May 11, 2008

Here’s an update on Michael Travesser:

http://www.koat.com/news/16175906/detail.html

20. Bares Reposting - May 11, 2008

X-ray, you had it right the first time:

‘Those gurus are criminals and all of them must share a prison sell together.’

They already ‘share a prison sell together.’ They all are selling people into prison of their own making.

Must have been a Freudian slip.

21. Pensate un attimo - May 11, 2008

Dear friends of the blog, as you can see, even if many of us left and started to realize the brain washing and absurdities of the cult called ‘Fellowship of Friends”, many people are still very inside and very well brainwashed…..speaking about the “miracle-sequence”, “super power to become a higher man”…Robert Burton’s spiritual materialism is very appealing to many……WHAT A LIE!

THOUGHTS FROM THE TEACHER
“Our School on the Sequence”
Apollo, May 11, 2008

“Something is missing in the system. If man is meant to remember himself there must have been some simple method. But it has been lost. I could never find it. Once in India, I heard an echo of such a method. If you find the method you may find the Source.” [Peter Ouspensky, 1935]
The sequence is an echo of Paradise. It is a mere image of the third state. *_A bronze statue in the Cleveland Museum, Ohio, depicts Shiva dancing, surrounded by thirty sparks (11th century). A very nice piece exactly like this will be coming from India in June for the Grand Pavilion. It is six feet tall.

“The more I work with the sequence, the more I realize there is an addiction to the lower self.” [ABat Adam, Tel Aviv]
It is a wonderful perception. I believe the most beautiful thoughts on the sequence will come from this morning’s meeting. Ouspensky spoke about negative emotions being habitual—an addiction to imagination, to the lower self. Kaigun Tan said, “It is just because people take themselves too seriously that they develop all sorts of addictions.” The lower self takes itself very seriously. In fact, it is the center of the universe. Once in San Francisco I had a lead-alchemy taxi driver, who expected the whole city to part for him.

“The sequence is a skillful means for overcoming mental defilement.” [Ri Thiel, Apollo]
Negative emotions are “mental defilement.” *_A rock painting from Lascaux depicting a rhinoceros hunt represents a sequence intoned in imagination. The six stools coming from the rhinoceros represent “mental defilement.” The Egyptian Texts say, “What I detest the most is excretion, and I will not eat it.” Rodney Collin said, “Imagination is a waste product of the human mind.”

“The sequence is freedom of thought, and the four wordless breaths are freedom from thought.” [Robert Earl Burton]
Very few people wish freedom from thought. The lower self likes to display an encyclopedic mind. I read that by the year 2020, there will be computers a million times more intelligent than an incredible figure like Leonardo. *_An eighteenth-century Jain bronze depicts a released spirit. The four cloud-like shapes on either side represent the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths.

“Ouspensky said that luck and fate are the greatest variables. Now we can perhaps say that luck and fate are the greatest variables, and that the sequence is the greatest constant.” [E Goethals, Apollo]
In Sonnet 53, Shakespeare said, “But you like none, none you, for constant heart.” The sequence removes the guesswork from awakening. It is a mathematical way of introducing presence. When we need to retrieve this state, the sequence is the way to do it. The sequence is the Achilles’ heel of the king of clubs, and that is why the lower self detests it. It has a weakness, and the sequence reveals it.

“The sequence flushes the lower self out of hiding. Before the sequence, we were present, but the lower self would take us out of presence without being detected.” [D Tuttle, Apollo]
The sequence detects the lower self like nothing else. We had self-remembering and divided attention for thirty-seven years, but we had no idea what a problem the lower self was. The sequence is his Achilles’ heel. The Koran says, “Satan sees you from where you do not see him.” *_A painting in the Mauritshuis, the Hague, the Netherlands, depicts Susanna and the Elders (1637). Susanna represents the nine of hearts. She is taking the four wordless breaths, but she senses the lower self lurking in the background. The lower self is the prince of darkness. He rules the second state.

“The sequence is inconspicuous voluntary suffering—the Via Dolorosa.” [A Braverman]
It is a wonderful thought. The sequence is called the way of sufferings—the way of sorrow—because we labor to connect with presence, step by step. We combined the thoughts of two students, Jeanne Chapman and Lourdes Soto, to say, “The sequence is excruciating because it shows how weak we are.” However, we are getting better. Since we have been given the sequence there is more presence and more conscious love in the school than ever. *_A painting by an unknown Flemish artist in the Legion of Honor, San Francisco, depicts Christ Carrying the Cross (1510). Incredibly, Christ has six toes, representing the sequence. He has completed the inhalation and exhalation of the sequence, and is about to be crucified and lay down his life at long BE. The trifoliate frame represents the three Be’s.

“No matter how often we may forget to use it, the sequence is a faithful friend, always there waiting to guide us to wordless presence.” [E Blake, Apollo]
Out of these ten thousand ‘I’s is a small group of ‘I’s that will serve the third eye—a “faithful friend.” *_A statue from the Egyptian Museum, Cairo, depicts a pharaoh and his wife. Here we see the pharaoh as the steward; however, he is being monitored by the nine of hearts, who holds four fingers on his neck and four fingers on his arm, guiding him through the narrow gate. It shows the quietly deliberate behavior of the nine of hearts. In Matthew 10:16, Jesus said, “Be ye therefore wise as serpents.” The nine of hearts must be as wise as the nine of clubs. The Egyptian Pyramid Texts says, “I am this friend of Ra, who stays with his rope.” The sequence is the “friend of Ra.”

“The secret of the successful sequence is to observe the steward doing the sequence and the lower self resenting it, being neither of them.” [N Nikolaeva, St. Petersburg]
*_A Persian miniature depicts a battle occurring inside a man’s head. The skull is composed of imagination. At left we see the outline of the eyes, nose, and lips. In the upper right-hand corner is Majnoun—the steward—outside of time, wearing blue trousers, with his hands on his solar plexus, supporting the four wordless breaths. The figures in the center representing the work ‘I’s are driving out the figures on the left, representing the mechanical ‘I’s. Plato said, “War is a permanent state”—in our sequence. Every ‘I’ is usually challenged. The key to a successful sequence is wordlessly appearing at each opportunity.

“If one does not want to do a sequence immediately upon observing prolonged imagination, there is no real desire to become conscious in that moment.” [D Fletcher, Sacramento]
There is no desire to be present to our lives. *_The Hanged Man Tarot card is a representation of prolonged imagination. The six branches on either side of the tree—the Amduat—are severed, which means that they did not flower. The steward’s hands are tied behind his back, serving the lower self. Confucius said, “It is these things that cause me concern: failure to cultivate virtue, failure to go more deeply into what I have learned, and inability, when I am told what is right”—the Theme of the sequence—“to move to where it is.” Of course, the main problem with being in the state of the Hanged Man is that he thinks he is in the third state. However, a firm Be, a shock from Influence C, or being with one another, tell another story—a conscious story. There are six blades of grass on one side of the Hanged Man’s head and four on the other, representing the steward in imagination. Hafiz said, “Are you sure”—Be—“are you really sure?”—long BE.

“Since to complete a sequence requires everything we have, nothing is left for thinking of the past or future.” [A Zarookian, Apollo]
*_An eleventh-century Chinese carving depicts the death of the Buddha. Here the Buddha—the steward—is completing a sequence, resting upon a square pillow. The three figures in front represent the three Be’s. The lower self does anything it can to break the sequence; therefore, we must do everything we can to complete it. Aristotle said, “We ought, so far as it lies within our power, to aspire to immortality, and we must strain every nerve to live in accordance with the highest in us.”

“Doing the sequence is as much a good habit as being in imagination is a bad habit.” [E Rice, Apollo]
Plato said, “We must form good habits”—the sequence. *_A wall relief from Saqqara, now in the museum in Leiden, the Netherlands, depicts a procession of figures. Not too long ago we went to Egypt and detected the message for the first time, and now we understand this marvelous message. The six figures represent Be, Hold, Theme, Back, Theme, and BE. The rope winds in and out of the loincloth of the fifth figure, representing work ‘I’ number five. The Kabbalah says, “The first five commandments imply the second five.”

“The sequence is a lifeboat on a sinking ship. It is magic we can carry in our pocket, which works when we use it.” [A Goldman, Apollo]
*_The Magician—Tarot card number one—represents the steward. In his bag of tricks are the thirty great work ‘I’s. The three legs of the table, and the three dice, both refer to the three Be’s. Incredibly, there are twenty-one points on the dice, representing a successful sequence unfolding. It means that the steward—card number one—will transcend himself into card twenty-one. Montaigne said, “The sick man who possesses the cure of his sleep is not to be pitied.” The sick man—the one in imagination—who has the tricks up his sleeve, is not to be pitied. He uses the sequence and removes the illness of imagination. *_An illustrated manuscript from the Gospel Book of Cologne depicts Christ asleep on a boat (11th century). It represents a sequence that has failed at Back. The fourth figure, representing work ‘I’ number four, is without a halo, and is looking in the wrong direction. “The sequence is a lifeboat on a sinking ship.” If we stay with the theme of our sequence, however, the ship will not sink.

“The sequence is altogether another scale of effort than sporadic attempts to remember oneself—more than tenfold—as the ten steps of the sequence aim for continuous presence.” [G Pannell, Apollo]
*_A wall painting from the Tomb of Seti I depicts a procession of figures with spirals. Each spiral, which has six rings, represents a completed sequence. The wall contains twelve such figures, indicating the completion of twelve consecutive sequences—a Sed Festival. This morning we have prolonged presence without a sequence. Related to making sporadic efforts, Gampopa said, “A mere glimpse of reality may be mistaken for complete realization.” Sporadically engaging presence is a “mere glimpse of reality.” If it begins to wane, then we bring a sequence to sustain it. In Sonnet 34, Shakespeare said, “Why didst thou promise me such a beauteous day,/And make me travel forth without my cloak?” This is when you have presence without a sequence and the lower self invisibly pulls you into imagination.

“Half-heartedly invoked sequences are a good basis for invoking a sequence wholeheartedly.” [Al Schwartzberg, Apollo]
“Half-heartedly” refers to a failing at middle Be—Back. “Wholeheartedly” means completing our sequence. *_A wonderful prehistoric rock painting from Cosquer cave, near Marseille, depicts a series of hands (27,000 BP). In the hands at the top the ten fingers are straight, representing a successful sequence—the Ten Commandments. We have seen images of the Ten Commandments from the prehistoric period found on the soil of Israel. They were the same people before they formalized into the Jewish people. Gregory of Sinai said, “Never cease behaving this way, falling and rising again, and you will find peace, wisely attaining victory through downfalls.” We mend our sequence and we “wisely attain victory.” For example, if Back fails, mending the sequence means to return to Back and intone it with presence.

“Resistance to the sequence can be worn down, one work ‘I’ at a time.” [J Stubbs, Buenos Aires]
I once watched a video about two serpents—the king snake and the rattlesnake—both of which we have at Apollo. The two snakes met and clashed, and the king snake very quickly killed the rattlesnake. The king snake is immune to the venom of the rattlesnake, just as, if we are firm in our intention to be present, the sequence is immune to the venom of the lower self. Plato said, “War is a permanent state”—in our sequence. *_An illustration of a wall relief from the Tomb of Ramses II at Abu Simbel depicts the Battle of Kadesh. Starting from the top, the first three chariots represent Be, Hold, and Theme. The next three chariots, representing Back, Theme, and BE, are placed more closely together. Each work ‘I’ is being challenged by a mechanical ‘I.’ The sequence is the antidote to imagination.

“To complete a successful sequence is the real ‘ladder of success.’” [J Kehl, Apollo]
*_A stained-glass window from the Cathedral of Saint-Pierre-et-Saint-Paul in Troyes depicts Jacob and the ladder. The ladder is composed of six rungs, representing the sequence. Jacob holds the second rung, representing Hold. *_A seventeenth-century wall painting from the monastery at Mount Athos depicts St. John’s Heavenly Ladder. It represents a sequence that is fraught with denying force, but which is eventually successful.

“The sequence is a lifestyle. It strengthens the nine of hearts to the extent that even in moments when you cannot use it, you have the feeling that you want to be in the present.” [Ulrch Kaiser, Apollo]
It is very nice. Plato said, “You must form good habits.” *_The Drawing of a Woman’s Head by Leonardo da Vinci in the Uffizi, Florence (15th century), is one of the greatest images of the nine of hearts in all schools. The medallion on her forehead consists of eight pearls, representing the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths, arranged around a rectangular gem, representing the narrow gate. There are six “sequential” wings on either side. *_A relief carving of a woman from the Angkor Wat temple in Angkor, Cambodia (12th century), depicts a similar motif. The headdress of the woman is adorned with several floral medallions, of which the central one has eight pearl-shaped beads arranged around a central bead. These are surrounded by approximately sixteen petals, representing the control of the passions—the Tarot division of centers. It is said that Ruzbihan Baqli had revelations of God when he was sixteen. This signifies the steward controlling the passions to attain “revelations of God.” We must not take the outer meaning seriously, for it precludes inner understanding. For example, “Moses died at one hundred twenty” actually refers to the inhalation and exhalation of the sequence. Lao-Tzu and Kabir also died at one hundred twenty. In fact, only one person in the history of the earth is known to have lived to be one hundred twenty—a gentleman in Japan. So we must look at the inner meaning of the numbers. The Indian relief carving expresses the message in the same way two hundred years before Leonardo. “It is still the same old story”—the same old wonderful story.

“The best sequences occur when there is a certain level of presence already. There are happy, almost effortless sequences with very light breathing—and Elle is out of the picture.” [El van Glabbeek, Apollo]
The sequence coming from presence is best. We are in the temple before we begin. Mohammed said, “When the call to prayer is heard it is better to already be in the temple.” If we bring a sequence from presence, we are already “in the temple.” A firm sequence is a joyful experience. *_The Erechtheum—the Ionic temple on the north side of the Acropolis, Athens (421-407 BC)—is one of the great, mature, sophisticated images of the four wordless breaths. Originally, one had to walk through the temple and pass behind it. Later, however, it was sealed up and this entrance was added. It has a large porch supported by six caryatids—draped female figures—four of which stand in front. Four steps lead up to the temple. You are outside of the temple—the nine of hearts—with the four wordless breaths.

“A firm Be gives us something to Hold.” [Robert Earl Burton]
A pottery fragment from a vase in the Istanbul Museum depicts a hand holding a nine-petalled flower, representing the control of the passions. The fingers represent long BE and the four wordless breaths. They also represent five—the first half of the sequence. The passive space between the fingers below the flower forms a ‘V,’ referring to the Roman numeral V. This, together with the five fingers, represents the Ten Commandments. We drew a reconstruction of the vase to show the original placement of this fragment. All that survived from the vessel was this tiny fragment, three inches in diameter. The message is that when each of us completes our role, all that will be left of our vessel are our moments of presence. It is a lovely message from Influence C. Of course, the reason we were given the physical body is to produce the astral body. The pottery fragment has a great double message. It shows the value of the sequence, because at the end of our roles all that is left are our moments of presence.

“The sequence is the most perfected instrument of change ever given to men.” [Wayne M Apollo]
It was perfected long before Egypt. So far we have traced it back to 100,000 BP, and there is evidence of the message even earlier than that. We recently saw an object with thirty incisions dating to 270,000 BP. The sequence is the greatest gift the Absolute gave to man. It has been delivered to us from the celestial city of Paradise, by angels who are in the room, to enable us to be present, and for our souls to migrate and join them at some point forever and ever. This is the sequential gift they have brought us to strengthen what we already have.

“Influence C are our outside help, and with the sequence we have inside help.” [Robert Earl Burton]
Our greatest help is one another. We are most present when we are together. *_A Teotihuacan host figurine indicates the strength of the nine of hearts. The Mesoamericans show better than anyone that the steward—Moses, Christ, and Mohammed—are merely shells for the nine of hearts—the white queen on the chessboard. Inside the steward’s chest is the figure of a woman in a white garment, representing the nine of hearts, with four divisions on her head, representing the four wordless breaths.

“The sequence drills a small hole in the bubble of imagination; on the other side lies eternity.” [T Fenn, Apollo]
“The sequence drills a small hole.” It is the Achilles’ heel of the nine of clubs. The hiding place of the lower self has been detected. He tries to thwart us at Back, because it calls attention to him. *_A Vanitas Still Life by Jacques de Gheyn the Elder in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, depicts a skull with four teeth missing (1603). This signifies that the lower self has failed to remove the four wordless breaths. The vase on the right represents short Be, while the vase on the left represents long BE. The four little white flowers represent the four wordless breaths.

“The most common of my distractions has been, ‘There is not enough time right now—I will try later.’ We know that the reverse is true.” [L O’Brien, Apollo]
When you are pressed for time, it is better not to use the sequence. Use the theme of the sequence—Move with presence—and then use Pax—patience—to slow the machine down. *_A painting by Hans Holbein the Younger in the Getty Museum, Los Angeles, depicts An Allegory of Passion (1532-36). The youth rides a horse without any reins—without a sequence—and is subject to any ‘I’ that comes along. It shows how the lower self is mean-spirited in all of us. The lower self never has enough time to waste. However, he dodges the present, thinking he is being productive.

“The sequence is the invisible rosary of man number four and up.” [L Bonvini, Paris]
“Man number four” refers to work ‘I’ number four; therefore, it would be better to say, “The sequence is the invisible rosary of the steward.” *_A seventeenth-century Persian miniature depicts a Woman Counting on Fingers. It shows the original set of prayer beads—the ten fingers. In fact, counting on one’s fingers can be a good way to do the sequence. The hands are very white, which means that the sequence is acting. Rather than using the old man to represent work ‘I’ number six, the artist dropped the pretext of the steward, and showed the nine of hearts—the old woman—as work ‘I’ number six. The woman has four strands of gray hair, one of which is a little shorter, signifying that the Ten Commandments have fulfilled their function and are preparing to bring short Be again.

“The sequence has brought a fresh breath of love among each other, which permeates throughout our school.” [B Yudin, Apollo]
There has never been more loving presence and more gratitude in the school. The Jewish people are currently celebrating Passover. During Passover, the bread—the sequence—has risen, and one must now eat “unleavened” bread. We do not want the sequential ‘I’s to rise and disturb the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths. Throughout the eight days of Hanukkah, forty-four candles are lit. The miracle celebrated by Hanukkah was that, although the Jews had only enough oil for one day—long BE—it lasted eight days, throughout the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths. This is Moses’ burning tree. One of the Jewish rabbis said that Passover is the Sabbath. The burning oil, the burning candle, and the burning tree are the same symbol.

“The Great Pyramid reflects the magnitude of the sequence.” [D Matei, Apollo]
I think this is the best thing ever said about the Great Pyramid. The Great Pyramid reflects Egypt’s love of the sequence.

“The sequence needs considerable practice to master, but thanks to the cumulative nature of presence, results soon appear, and that invites one to continue.” [P Pacheco, London]
Quite often, the second and third sequences are better than the first one. We tend to warm up with the first sequence, and with the second and third ones we can strike a good pace.

“With Be, imaginary picture is revealed.” [J Mager, Apollo]
Mohammed called Be the “piercing star,” because it pierces imagination. Perhaps we can publish a little book containing our revelations about the sequence, which like the Kabbalah, would be without names. *_A marble statue by Raffaelle Monti in the Wallace Collection, London, depicts A Circassian Slave in the Marketplace at Constantinople (1851). Here we see the nine of hearts sadly veiled, with her hands tied behind her back, and the four wordless breaths occurring in imagination. The nine of hearts has become enslaved to the nine of clubs. *_At left a photograph depicts the Muezzin call to prayer to use the sequence. At right, a sixteenth-century Persian miniature shows the negative lower self trying to keep Be from being heard. Be reveals our imaginary picture, and the lower self rules that imaginary picture. The prince of darkness—the lower self—rules imagination.

“When I can escort every inhalation, every exhalation, and the interval between, with presence, that is a sequence that acts and is not intoned in imagination.” [M Even, Tel Aviv]
There are some wonderful angles from the Israeli center. “When I can escort every step in the sequence with presence.” Is it not lovely? Mohammed said, “I am merely a servant of Allah.” The steward is the escort of presence. *_A wall painting from the Tomb of Ramses V and VI depicts a mummy with six gates. It is wonderful, because there are very few images that show the mummy as the nine of hearts. The six gates represent the sequence, while above them, the four figures represent the four wordless breaths. Although it almost looks like a voodoo image, it is sublime in its meaning—that imagination has been taken out between the four wordless breaths, represented by the four upside-down beheaded figures. The last upside-down figure is slightly detached from the top, because the Tenth Commandment is coming to an end and a new sequence is about to begin, represented by the mummy in white.

“The lower self would prefer to talk about, think about, read about, speak about, hear about, and write about the sequence, rather than practice it. In our favor, however, is the helping hand of Influence C.” [E Kehl, Apollo]
It is a lovely thought. *_A painting by Girolamo di Benvenuto in the Fogg Art Museum, Boston, depicts St. Catherine (ca. 1500). On the left is Christ, who is portrayed as an androgynous figure, both male and female, indicating that he is the nine of hearts. He is surrounded by four cherubim, representing the four wordless breaths. On the right, the lower self is trying to bring ten thousand options to destroy the sequence. It would rather “talk about, think about, read about, hear about, and write about” anything but have presence itself.

NATASCIA
“With the sequence, higher centers are no longer a theory.” [M Golding, Apollo]
Three months after I met Influence C in 1967, they revealed themselves. My first realization was that life after death is not a theory. Forty years later we see a similar thought. The sequence adds definition to presence. Shakespeare said, “Is it possible the world could produce such a jewel?” *_A painting by Parmigianino in the Galleria Nazionale di Capodimonte, Naples, depicts Galeazzo Sanvitale (1524). The incredible, elegant refinement of this painting is the opposite of the great simplicity of the prehistoric images. It has wonderful depth. The sitter has four fingers draped over the edge of the chair, representing the four wordless breaths. Beneath it, the six divisions on the chair represent the Amduat. Inscribed on the coin in his hand is the number ‘seventy-two,’ referring to the control of the passions. He represents the steward—the head of the Sphinx—supporting the four wordless breaths. *_In a Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror by Parmigianino in the Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna (1524), the artist depicts himself with a huge hand showing four fingers, like Leonardo’s Lady with an Ermine, suggesting the magnitude of the four wordless breaths. It is a circular painting, representing short Be and long BE connecting. Parmigianino died in his thirties.

“Hear does not mean ‘I am listening.’ It means the very fact of listening—the miracle.” [Michael Lester, Apollo]
It is very nice, is it not? The sequence takes us in search of the miraculous. Al-Ghazali said, “Make the divine presence your destination.” T.S. Eliot said, “We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time.” “To arrive where we started”—short Be, long BE—“and know the place for the first time.” It is marvelous. Referring to the three Be’s, T.S. Eliot also said, “Quick now, hear now, always.” *_A lovely statue wonderfully depicts Milarepa listening to the sequence and partaking of the four wordless breaths. It is a very unusual image, because the artist blatantly dropped a finger in order to show four fingers. Milarepa has blue hair, representing prolonged presence. It recalls the young David slaying Goliath.

“The sequence has proven to be an umbilical cord to higher centers. The vibrations of each note initiate a stimulus to the self, rousing it, stirring it to self-recognition.” [P Harvey, Apollo]
It is quite lovely, is it not? The “vibrations of each note” refers to the sequence acting. Paul wrote me a very nice note recently saying, “Thank you. You have sufficiently illuminated the path.” It is incredible that thought can actually be used to induce presence. Shakespeare said, “Can the world buy such a jewel?” He also said, “It [love] adds a precious seeing to our eyes.” *_A twelfth-century English manuscript depicts David with six bells. He is intoning the sequence, striking the second bell, which represents Hold. *_A fourteenth-century French miniature shows David with four bells, supporting the four wordless breaths.

“Try to bring as much quality to each sequence as you can, which means to bring as much presence as possible to each work ‘I,’ step by step.” [Robert Earl Burton]
*_A prehistoric rock painting from Baja California depicts a procession of deer (7500 BP). What a jewel is the message from this teacher. It is one of the images we use most in our school. The tenth deer, representing the Tenth Commandment, is very spirited, indicating the spirited ending of the sequence. It is also the smallest, because the sequence has fulfilled its function and is running out of steam, and it is time to bring short Be again. The deer are close together because they do not allow imagination to break through the sequence or the four wordless breaths. Between the first group of six deer and the second group of four deer is a space—a sequential pause. Mohammed said, “The sublime majesty of my Lord! I have finished my mission.” The laws of a higher world are about to emerge. Prokofiev expressed this beautifully in his ballet Cinderella. When Cinderella appears, the music is otherworldly.

“The sequence is the seed of the new world.” [GA. Miño, Santiago de Chile]
Is that not lovely? The sequence is the seed of the new world. Presence is the fruition of the sequence. *_Of the four figures in the corners of card-twenty one, only the bull in the bottom left-hand corner is without a halo, because he is incapable of presence. We can render him powerless, but we must be firm in our intentions to do so. Incredibly, the Dancing Figure has four toes, representing the sequence, and stands upon a base with six divisions on either side, representing the Amduat. Beneath it, the passive space forms an egg, with the Roman numeral X over it. What is in the egg? The Ten Commandments.

“The sequence is an anchor for presence, allowing one to stay in the moment and not drift off into imagination. It is also an emergency brake, from which we can move to more presence.” [B Hohmann-Koloyartsev, Seattle]
Be stops the wheel from turning to the left, and Hold starts it spinning to the right. With the sequence, the answer will always be greater than the message.

“The sequence is movement towards the invisible; the beginning of existence.”
[-R Altamirano, Apollo]
Is that not lovely? *_A wall painting from the tomb of Meresankh in Giza depicts a procession of figures. It is the best image in all schools for showing that Be and Hold begin every sequence. The teacher put the two figures together to convey this. Be and Hold are followed by Theme, Back, Theme, and then long BE. The teacher put Back in the wrong place intentionally to test the young priests. Their textbook was on the temple walls. However, we corrected it and put Back in the right place. *_A painting by Hieronymus Bosch in the Palazzo Ducale, Venice, depicts The Ascent of the Blessed (1500). The angel on the left represents the first work ‘I’—Be; the angel on the right represents the second work ‘I’—Hold. It is a “movement towards the invisible.” The other angels represent Theme, Back, and then, right at the entrance, Theme. It is a very modern concept, with the slender figure, representing long BE, at the end of the tunnel. He is right on the threshold of God. There is a saying that there is light at the end of the tunnel. The sequence is the beginning of conscious existence in an unconscious universe. It is not only the earth that has this problem. Sleep is ubiquitous in the universe; it is everywhere. We may be the only consciousness occurring in the universe right now, outside of the celestial city of Paradise. There is definitely that possibility. Sleep is a horrific problem for the Absolute.

“The sequence is practical devotion.” [DTonarelli, Florence]
This thought comes from an Italian heart; the previous thought from Rolando comes from a Mexican heart. The sequence makes our love for one another more practical. *_A Chinese scroll painting depicts Buddha meditating on three demons (17th century). The toes on one foot are concealed by his other leg, suggesting the hidden nature of the four wordless breaths. Often this is depicted by a hidden hand, rather than a foot. The fingernails and toenails are all clearly white, representing the sequence acting. We can assume that the four hidden toes also have white nails, the twenty white nails together signifying the inhalation and exhalation of the Ten Commandments.

“The four wordless breaths are consciousness without functions, presence without words, and are the very heart of this school, and of all schools.” [Robert Earl Burton]
In Hamlet, Shakespeare said, “Give me that man/Who is not passion’s slave and I will wear him/… in my heart of heart.” In my “heart of heart”—BE—and then the four wordless breaths. *_A heart mask from Gabon, Africa, in the Musée Barbier-Mueller, Geneva, is the only image we have found that divides the nose into four parts to represent the four wordless breaths. The steward has finished his role—Christ has been crucified—and now the four wordless breaths can occur. The marvelous heart shape of the mask signifies the nine of hearts supporting the four wordless breaths. *_A prehistoric rock painting from Chauvet depicts four horses (30,000 BP). They are triumphing over the lower self, dwarfing and inhibiting it, like Shiva, who treads upon the diminutive lower self. The muzzle on the fourth horse is fading, signifying that the Ten Commandments are finishing.

“Completing a sequence is astral body building.” [Jo A Mortensen, Apollo]
Sometimes I practice the sequence with the aim of strengthening the ability to practice the sequence. It is an exercise, just as a musician practices scales or an athlete does push-ups. Usually preoccupation with the physical body displaces preoccupation with the astral body. Most people in life are totally preoccupied with strengthening the physical body. They do everything they can to make it immortal, although, of course, it is not. Gurdjieff said, “Faith in the body is stupidity.” *_A Mesopotamian statue from the ancient civilization of Elam, Iran, depicts a standing lioness (2800 BC). It is a great image, showing the nine of hearts with the strength of Hercules. On the base of her spine are four holes, representing the four wordless breaths controlling the lower self.

“Influence C are our outside help, and with the sequence we have inside help.” [Robert Earl Burton]
“In my forty years of working with Influence C, I was never able to help my students more, and upon receiving the sequence I never had more to help them with.” [Robert Earl Burton]
The sequence is the voice of presence. Thank you, dears.

[Galleria Meeting, April 27, 2008]
Toast given on May 2, 2008, at breakfast in the Tudor’s home:
Hafiz said, “Do not delay the coming of Spring.” Let us toast to the renewal of our sequence.

22. veronicapoe - May 11, 2008

14/Rear View Mirror

Another thought about the predictions. The fact that they’ve come and gone leaves the Fellowship of Friends with no real “role” on the earth. There’s no “ark,” there’s no new “civilization” being settled in Oregon House, Calif.
But…
We do have The Sequence. We now have a Great School that gathers the ancient, hidden knowledge of the Egyptians and unveils it for humanity. Now “the school” — just months after a string of failed predictions — has its new “role” for humanity: unveiling the Sequence for all.

“Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view.

How and why does such a response to contradictory evidence come about? That is the question on which this book focuses.”

From Chapter I, “Unfulfilled Prophecies and Disappointed Messiahs,” in When Prophecy Fails: a social and psychological study of a modern group that predicted the destruction of the world, by Leon Festinger, Henry W. Riecken, and Stanley Schachter (New York: Harper Torchbooks, 1956).

23. Mick Danger - May 11, 2008

Awkward Moments I
Hey Princess,
What’s with the Maximus Dickus painting on your ceiling?

24. Mick Danger - May 11, 2008

Don’t forget it’s Mother’s Day in the USA.
Meher Baba said: “Everyone owes their life to a woman.”
In sweet irony it is also Frank Zappa’s Birthday –
The “Mother of Invention” who said:
“Cover that girl in chocolate syrup
and boogie till the cows come home.”

25. Rear View Mirror - May 11, 2008

Mick, c’mon… Two more in a long string of nonsensical posts, and two more weak attempts at humor. What game are you playing here? I know you’re not trying to distract people, are you?

26. Rear View Mirror - May 11, 2008

About doomsday scenarios, and giving up your common sense to follow a cult leader…

You’d think cult leaders would try to suppress the ego in their followers, so that they’d be more likely to acquiesce to their whims. But cult leaders truly want strong egos.

But one reason were hooked by a cult is that it appeals to our egos — the idea that we are the chosen ones, we are different, that we will survive when others die, that we are enlightened when others aren’t, that we see objective truth in a clear way while others languish in “imagination,” and that we are a different type of man or woman from all of the other men and women on the earth. Awakening (or enlightenment, or whatever we may want to call it) becomes a form of competition. It becomes a race; a type of game. The ego gets us thinking in “either-or” frameworks. We start thinking, “It’s either them or me, and I’m going to get there first.” And furthermore, if THEY get it (whatever “it” is), then I won’t be able to get it. Because there’s a limited supply of this “it” to go around. So hurry. Work, effort, strain, stress, suffering, sacrifice: it all becomes necessary. Because there’s no time to waste. We start seeing others as obstacles unless they serve our purposes in some way.

Veronicapoe (21) quoting from “Unfulfilled Prophecies and Disappointed Messiahs”:

“Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view.”

How and why does such a response to contradictory evidence come about? That is the question on which this book focuses.”

I’m sure one answer is that we would need to give up this idea of being separate, and different, and special, and holy, and better than all of the rest of the earth.

Is that what awakening is all about? And RB: Is that what the Sequence is about? Is that what “it” is all about? Getting the Gold Medal? Is it about… fear?

Where we become “hooked” is in this separation from the world around us.

But maybe “it” is more about finding our connection to others, our connection to the earth, and to the universe… rather than seeing others as threats to our spiritual well-being. Maybe it’s more about recognizing wisdom in others.

Even recognizing the wisdom in Mick here, although I’m still not quite sure what he’s up to. 😉

27. nigel harris price - May 11, 2008

25 – Full Understanding
33 – Awakening………..
(other significant numbers to follow)…..Nigel.

28. nigel harris price - May 11, 2008

It’s May 11
11- “There is question now…..” (Shakespeare ‘King John’)

29. nigel harris price - May 11, 2008

“When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don’t be afraid of the dark:
At the end of the storm
There’s a Golden Dawn
And the sweet silver sound of the lark”

‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ (Liverpool Soccer Club Anthem)

30. Rear View Mirror - May 11, 2008

By the way, Mick, not only is it Mother’s Day, but I’m surprised you didn’t mention that it’s Burton’s birthday today. Oh, wait, or is May 12th? Or is May 5th? Whatever. Why worry about the facts? Why worry about the truth? Two of his mottos.

31. sharon - May 11, 2008

Hi Nigel – the “Liverpool Soccer Club Anthem” is from the Broadway musical Carousel….. somehow that seems odd to me….

32. lauralupa - May 11, 2008

ton 8
Two of my daugthers really like the Shins. I have been listening to a lot of Animal Collective and Panda Bear, there is such a pleasantly “unformatory” feeling in everything they do!
but now that you mention the ever awesome Arcade Fire…
(BTW, AF frontman Will Butler majored in religious studies at McGill University in Montreal – maybe nowadays there are more truly spiritual people in indie rock and the rave scene than in the so-called esoteric traditions)

A vial of hope and a vial of pain,
In the light they both looked the same.
Poured them out on into the world,
On every boy and every girl.

It’s in the Neon Bible, the Neon Bible
Not much chance for survival,
If the Neon Bible is right.

Take the poison of your age,
Don’t lick your fingers when you turn the page,
What I know is what you know is right,
In the city it’s the only light.

It’s the Neon Bible, the Neon Bible
Not much chance for survival,
If the Neon Bible is right.

Oh God! well look at you now!
Oh! you lost it, but you don’t know how!
In the light of a golden calf,
Oh God! I had to laugh!

Take the poison of your age,
Don’t lick your fingers when you turn the page,
It was wrong but you said it was right,
In the future I will read at night.

In the Neon Bible, the Neon Bible
Not much chance for survival,
If the Neon Bible is true.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y-5XK-2Ufd4

33. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 11, 2008

21 and 31 are newly moderated.

34. sharon - May 11, 2008

#21 is the most depressing post on this blog to date.

35. brucelevy - May 11, 2008

21. Pensate un attimo

Something inside the Princess knows he is a fraud and a clown. Almost all his energy seems to be about selling the sequence to the sheep and finding validation for it in EVERYTHING (to quiet that inner voice that must be calling to him…”WTF”). If it’s so great, and so effective, one should be able to prove it’s effectiveness to oneself pretty easily.

Insanity and delusion. I’m sorry, but RB is a fucking clown at this point, but his followers…Holy Shit.

36. brucelevy - May 11, 2008

All the minutia he’s sliding down their throats is numbing, as it’s designed to be. He’s a parasite feeding off hosts of stupidity, gullibility, vanity and self puffery. Let me repeat this…HE’S A PARASITE.

37. arthur - May 12, 2008

Well, I don’t know. The sequence might work in cell block C along with, “what we’ve got here is a failure to communicate”.

38. unoanimo - May 12, 2008

Post 21

I’ve noticed that whenever my real level of existence meets with what I’d like another to think it is when, during a conversation the ego suddenly ‘feels’ that it’s loosing a foothold on the ‘King of The Mountain’ thingy, something within me starts justifying my ‘points’ with other ‘spear-points’, recent and historical ones, i.e., “he/she said.. so and so wrote, etc.”…

(Sometimes it’s best to simply start the whole conversation over again; like an old record that’s suspect and come to find that’s it actually just needing a new needle…)

A friend of mine once said, “Well, yes; that may be so… But, I and many others share my same or similar point that I’m trying to make, so…”

My response was that IMO, having more people sharing a subjective point of view does not make it, by shear numbers, objective… Via the ‘quantity or consensus-default rules’… IMO, Ruling anything on Earth can hardly be called objective…

Gathering a consensus-spirit-power to reinforce my point of view, which is oftentimes not really what I’m living anyways, because then I wouldn’t really be needing the Overcompensation-crutch to overcome the pangs of conscience and pains of innocence that’s trying to say ‘Please stop lying & exaggerating; these lungs can only hold but so much hot air…’, because I’d have enough sustenance from the loving of my own verifications and ‘right place-feeling’ with the relationship between conscience and my realized subjectivity…It’s very tricky business…

There’s no luck involved: IMO, with the F.O.F. and Robert, it’s all ‘touch and go’ and no holding… We have to grow up allot and graduate from Freudian whips to really hold someone for a long period of time without feeling awkward and to let them go with absolute certainty that there’s no ‘Rain check’ or ulterior motives implied or on the horizon when subconscious expectations are not met by Mother Nature’s ‘other children’…

IMO, ‘Touch and Go’ is a condition of fear and ignorance of the depths of the ‘We’; so, it’s a sort of ‘building block’ scenario, one that an emotional breakdown will stop at nothing to remind the builder that ‘play’ is not ‘passion’ and ‘passion’ is not a love-grocery list that’ll be rewarded by going outside oneself to relieve or find the source of the hunger…

Maybe a current F.O.F. student might say, “There’s nothing wrong with Robert having ideas.”

Yes and in the only way I can currently see it, based on the student’s supposition’s ‘other side of the coin’, there’s nothing right about it either.

Wishing upon a star (Robert to his students and His students to himself + C-Influence) is the first stage of asking for the ego’s annihilation: casting that star in bronze, polishing and embedding it in a sidewalk in Hollywood does not speed things up…

Here’s a possible scenerio for ‘teachers’ like those of the F.O.F. ~

When you’re always playing the piano to keep the dance floor alive and doing it in such a way that Common Sense and The Primordial Depths of Heart Ache are both peeing on the dance floor for fear of missing something or someone taking its date while its ‘away to powder its nose’, then, what?

The ‘what’ IMO, arrives at this very difficult realization ~

That the party was ‘great’, ‘a hell of a ride’, ‘ a WTF-learning experience’, ‘etc. etc.’

Yes, all that and more, though, the pianist never got to dance. (?)

_______________________

L.t.y.a.

39. arthur - May 12, 2008

I’m not the brightest bulb in the box, but I think I’ve got it.
I have this dark blue avatar (?) which represents divine presence.

Within divine presence (I) have four stars which represent the four wordless breaths. Around the corners (I) have four hour glass shapes which represent the nine of hearts. In between the nine of hearts (I) have not six but seven representing long be, short be and completion.

I hope you understand? Good, that settles it.

40. unoanimo - May 12, 2008

Yes, Arthur, then there’s that darn ancient of ancient symbols the swastika that ties it all in just dandy: don’t worry, the Neolithic period had it first…

I thought your avatar represented a train coming head on as ‘The White Light’ at the end of the tunnel and you as the Conductor (?)

…)

41. Howard Carver - May 12, 2008

The king of clubs comes in many disguises, but the two most insidious disguises are the deceptive forms of Robert Burton and the sequence.

42. veronicapoe - May 12, 2008

21/Pensate un attimo

Seek, wince. Cheesus Vomiting Christ!

43. veronicapoe - May 12, 2008

“A firm Be gives us something to Hold.” [Robert Earl Burton]

44. veronicapoe - May 12, 2008

All the rest is shrinkage.

45. arthur - May 12, 2008

Unoanimo,

I dont want to frighten you but yours looks like a space ship circling a worm hole, Lebewohl!!

46. Wouldnt You Like To Know - May 12, 2008

Pensate un attimo 35/21, May 11, 2008,
the Galleria Meeting, April 27, 2008,
THOUGHTS FROM THE TEACHER
‘Our School on the Sequence’
Apollo, May 11, 2008:

¡Pure drivel! ‘Pure’ has four letters, as does the word ‘four,’ which represents the four sacred wordless breaths that promotes and prolongs presence when taken prior to the need, or use, of the sequence; the sequence being represented by the six letters in the word ‘drivel.*’ ‘Pure’ and ‘four’ rhyme which represents the inhalation and exhalation of the four sacred wordless breaths. The ‘r’ in the third place in ‘pure’ represents ‘remember yourself’ being in the beginning of the ascending octave first interval and the ‘r’ in the fourth place in ‘four’ represents ‘remember yourself’ being after the ascending octave first interval, which indicates successful bridging of the interval and now you are a man number four.

* driv·el
Pronunciation: \’dri-vəl\
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): driv·eled or driv·elled;
driv·el·ing or driv·el·ling
Etymology: Middle English,
from Old English dreflian;
perhaps akin to Old Norse
draf malt dregs
Date: before 12th century.
1 : to let saliva dribble from the mouth: slaver.
2 : to talk stupidly and carelessly.
[According to: Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary]

Shakespeare’s Sonnet number four says:

Unthrifty loveliness, why dost thou spend
Upon thy self thy beauty’s legacy?
Nature’s bequest gives nothing, but doth lend,
And being frank she lends to those are free:
Then, beauteous niggard, why dost thou abuse
The bounteous largess given thee to give?
Profitless usurer, why dost thou use
So great a sum of sums, yet canst not live?
For having traffic with thy self alone,
Thou of thy self thy sweet self dost deceive:
Then how when nature calls thee to be gone,
What acceptable audit canst thou leave?
Thy unused beauty must be tombed with thee,
Which, used, lives th’ executor to be.

Since this sonnet begins with ‘unthrifty’ and ends with ‘be,’ it says it all, ‘unthrifty be’ if you spend much time reading, listening to, paying for, and/or attending meetings for, such drivel.

– – – – – – * * * *

‘The sequence is a lifeboat on a sinking ship. It is magic we can carry in our pocket, which works when we use it.” [A Goldman, Apollo]’: ‘If we stay with the theme of our sequence, however, the ship will not sink.’

So, A Goldman and Robert admit it, without the sequence, the Fellow ship of Friends is ‘a sinking ship.’ Sequence, or not, the Fellow ship is headed for deep waters, deep six. Which means, betting the ranch on the sequence. ‘Deep six,’ which indicates the sequence, means to sink a ship in one of the six great oceans of the Earth. The six great oceans of the Earth, which also indicates the sequence, are part of organic life on Earth, world 48. 48 is divisible by 6, the sequence, which gives you 8, which represents the inhalation and exhalation of the four sacred wordless breaths.

– – – – – – * * * *

arthur, 35/39, May 12, 2008: By Jove!, (I) think he’s got it!

47. Just Another Voice Out Here - May 12, 2008

21

I can imagine someone actually saying something as ultimately meaningless as ““The sequence is a lifestyle. It strengthens the nine of hearts to the extent that even in moments when you cannot use it, you have the feeling that you want to be in the present.” Or as simple minded as “Doing the sequence is as much a good habit as being in imagination is a bad habit.” But does anyone who knew Y_din actually think he said “The sequence has brought a fresh breath of love among each other, which permeates throughout our school.”? A “breath of fresh pussy,” maybe, but a “breath of love”? I doubt it.

48. veramente - May 12, 2008

“The sequence is freedom of thought, and the four wordless breaths are freedom from thought.” [Robert Earl Burton]
————————————-
What is the sound of snoring?

49. brucelevy - May 12, 2008

47. veramente

One has to admit, Robert’s definitely free of thought.

50. Ill Never Tell - May 12, 2008

As my avatar might imply, I am loosing my mind reading some of these idiotic post. Is that really what happens at a meeting? Whoever is responsible for that stuff must get their head examined. (Are there no head shrinks in FoF?) Whoever it is really needs that ‘stops thought’ of the 4 wordless breaths. Better, stop the 4 wordless breaths and go brain dead.
-_-_-_-_

‘What is the sound of snoring?’

Is that one of those trick questions, like, ‘What is the sound of one hand clapping?’

Snoring does not sound like, ‘What.’
Snoring sounds like, ‘Zzzzzz.’

51. I'll never tell - May 12, 2008

Sorry about that broken link in my last post. Those damn asterisks in the URL screwed it up. So, here I try again:

And, if this doesn’t work, my name on this post should be a link to the same thing.

52. WhaleRider - May 12, 2008

#21 “Thoughts from Followers Attributed to a Cult Leader Who Suffers from Ideas of Reference and Magical Thinking”

The word ‘sequence’ was repeated about 122 times in that piece. BEEEEcause….(cue music) when it’s Libby’s, Libby’s, Libby’s on the label, label, label, you will like it, like it, like it, on your table, table, table, when it’s Libby’s, Libby’s, Libby’s on the label, label, label.

Most fundamentalist Christian based cults use the literal translation of the Bible to legitimatize their existence, too. If one believes the Bible is the Word of God, who can reason with that? If the Bible says the world was created in seven days and is only about 8,000 years old, then that’s the truth. To question the Word of God is blasphemy and leads to ex-communication. End of debate.

So if the world was created in seven days, and the FOF attributes the number eight as the inhalation and exhalation of four wordless breaths, why pray tell, after all that creation business is the Absolute not completing the precious sequence process and coming to full rest by exhaling on the eighth day instead? Is the Absolute holding His breath, waiting for our next move? I don’t think so.

This cult uses art the same way other cults use the Bible. How can one debate with self-evident images like the number of fingers in paintings whose creators have long since died? Why not see the same messages in modern paintings whose creators are still alive and whom may have been properly schooled in perspective and anatomy?

53. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - May 12, 2008

Let’s face it, bottom line is it’s just a whole bunch of horse manure. Good grief!

54. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

Just got out of bed this morning (British Summer Time) to read all this stir-up about the sequence and other stuff. Did not Shakespeare write?: – “That which we call a rose, by any other name would SMELL”. “Something’s rotten in the STATE”. You tell me. Will check in for more blogs this evening…..Nigel.

55. Yesri baba - May 12, 2008

Thought is in the present
Eternity is in the present
Attention is in the present
Words and wordlessness are in the present

You are the present.
Stop jerking off.

56. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

This passage of poetry is meant to help in the healing process for those who are still ‘torn apart’ by their separation from the FOF.

INVICTUS by W E Henley

‘Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole’
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbow’d.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafriad.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.’

“Leave the bad things behind;
keep the good things”….Nigel.

57. lauralupa - May 12, 2008

Yeah, once in Oregon House I had a gold-alchemy cult leader, who expected the whole California to sink for him.

“The sequence is a skillful means for overcoming mental defilement.”
Wouldn’t it be great if it could be also effective to overcome physical defilement by your “teacher”?

“What I detest the most is excretion, and I will not eat it.”
I am with you here. I will not eat this shit. (pardon me, stools)

“The sequence detects the lower self like nothing else. We had self-remembering and divided attention for thirty-seven years, but we had no idea what a problem the lower self was.”
Robert, you had no idea? Weren’t you already “a Conscious Being” for the past thirty-seven years? But you are so lucky, it took you only a few months in Horn’s school, all without a sequence, to awaken… the Gods must really love You.

“The sequence is excruciating because it shows how weak we are.”
Nothing better to maintain control over people than to keep them busy at work on a self-defeating task.

…after a while I got tired of reading all the nonsense, but couldn’t help noticing Robert’s mannerism of introducing many comments with phrases like “It is very nice, is it not?”, “Is that not lovely?” “It is quite lovely, is it not?” etc. He uses that a lot also in the recently posted videos, and it’s a good selling technique, because while he seems to be asking your opinion, in fact he is forcing the presupposed loveliness and niceness upon you, is he not?

M Golding and A Zarookian, dear friends, I can’t believe you’re still in, what a waste of talent… Goddamn you, Robert!
Thank you dears, indeed!

And all you really need to know is within these seven words;

You are the present.
Stop jerking off.

58. aline. c - May 12, 2008

Part of the beginning of the end for me started when I began 3 years ago to translate all these thoughts for the Paris Center.
At that time I was pointing word by word , everything I was translating, because I did not understand a world of what I have to translate .
Robert could have said one thing or the opposite without any problem, since there was nothing to verify in it but everything had to be accepted as it was expressed.
So you see ,as Sharon said, it is depressing, but that there is hope………..

59. aline. c - May 12, 2008

Sorry
So you see ,as Sharon said, it is depressing, but there is hope………..

60. Draco - May 12, 2008

“Something is missing in the system. If man is meant to remember himself there must have been some simple method. But it has been lost. I could never find it. Once in India, I heard an echo of such a method. If you find the method you may find the Source.” [Peter Ouspensky, 1935]”

Ouspensky did say this to Francis Roles, and Roles dedicated nearly two decades after Ouspensky’s death in looking for a new method. Roles found his method in Advaita Vedanta and a meditation technique, not in the sequence, which was only invented in 2005 or 2006.

“The lower self takes itself very seriously. In fact, it is the center of the universe. Once in San Francisco I had a lead-alchemy taxi driver, who expected the whole city to part for him.”

Robert expects Gods to arrange economic crashes, earthquakes, nuclear war and blowjobs for himself.

“The sequence is the greatest gift the Absolute gave to man. It has been delivered to us from the celestial city of Paradise, by angels who are in the room, to enable us to be present, and for our souls to migrate and join them at some point forever and ever.”

Does anyone remember the meetings about the Celestial City of Paradise a few years ago? Robert proudly announced that he was going to write “a paper” (his words) on the Celestial City of Paradise. He announced that the paper would end (voice choking with emotion as he recites this) “Somewhere over the rainbow
Way up high
There’s a land that I heard of
Once in a lullaby.”

You can’t make it up!

61. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

There is a passage in ‘What makes a Leader’, about how true business leaders come about, which I read in a magazine, shortly before (thankfully) being released from the FOF in June 1989. Susan Zannos was mailed a copy of the article. I am sure she would be more than pleased to send anyone else a copy.

“Show people how to succeed and they will love you for it”

I am sure this means True Love – Gratis per Caritas…..

(meant to be an answer to blog-post 55 (as in Transformation
of Suffering, to which that number symbolically refers)…..Nigel.

62. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

5-8
Actioning ‘man’ as Avatar

5-9
Actioning ‘man’ as Revolutionary (Revolution #9 – The Beatles)

63. aline. c - May 12, 2008

#21 “The sequence detects the lower self like nothing else. We had self-remembering and divided attention for thirty-seven years, but we had no idea what a problem the lower self was.”

It is interesting that Robert ,now, establishes the Sequence as the only knowledge and practice leading to awakening.

By this fact, he recognizes, despite himself ,that what he taught us before was not complete or was not sufficient to lead anyone somewhere.

It is far away of what we have heard for years and years.

It seems like a commercial praising a new washing powder which will wash your clothes whiter than the previous one : So the previous one, which was praised before does not work anymore and was just a rip off ?

The second remark, associated with #21 (pensate un attimo) is that Robert is always using the same trick to involve and gratify some people (giving quotations with the name of the students) to maintain the others in a numb state where you always have to look to somebody above you.

64. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

Aline (60)
Thank God I never came into a position of power (or even lotsa money!). Any efforts or payment I made were for the help of Influence C and for the gaining of My Self. And thank you, Aline!

65. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

May (World) 12 (today) be always within our grasp!…..Nigel.

66. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

Wouldn’t You Like to Know (45)

How about consequential, as in having to live the consequences?
Con – as in conjob; Sequence, as in that idiotic new ‘exercise’. But-
I doubt whether Robert Burton wants to Pay the Price (be it the Nigel Harris kind, or otherwise). I prefer Being, as in ‘being something worthwhile for Humanity’ Ouspensky, as you remember in ‘The 4th Way’, actually stated; “It is possible to study systems and system ideas for many years and still not come to anything REAL”. Dwell on that, ye FOFfers! Especially Girard Haven (as in Haven’t a Clue, have you?)….Nigel.

67. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

Here are a couple of things I remember REB saying:-

“Dear God, how high the price!”

“C Influence want nothing physical from you (they want a soul for you)”

So, give up making your ‘teaching payments’ and work on your ‘personal reality’ (or Soul), in or outside of the Cult…..Nigel.

The 6-4 dollar question “Will you or won’t You?”

68. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

I am leaving now for my teaching-class at my studio-workshop. I take the A (Absolute, Avatar, Angel) bus to the bus station, then the 55 (Transformation of Suffering) bus to Bickleigh, where my workshop is. Be back at about 4pm your (California) time…..Nigel.

69. sharon - May 12, 2008

Just to clarify, what depressed me (quite a bit!) was not RB’s words – I’m used to that bs, I can laugh at it. What hurts is the full-blown cult mentality of the inane comments by the followers, some of whom I used to think had brains and talent. I would have expected no more from some, but yes, Lauralupa; M. Golding, A. Zarookian, R. Thiel, M Lester, L Bonvini, P Harvey, J. Mortensen…… what is happening to you? I can only hope that, as with all those past semi-fictional Journals, these “quotes” are so “edited” as to be unrecognizable by their “authors”.

70. sharon - May 12, 2008

Nigel – so many posts at once, you are starting to read a little manic to me. You’ve told us you struggle with bi-polar, sincerely sorry if this is too blunt.

71. Rear View Mirror - May 12, 2008

Aline: “It is interesting that Robert ,now, establishes the Sequence as the only knowledge and practice leading to awakening. By this fact, he recognizes, despite himself, that what he taught us before was not complete or was not sufficient to lead anyone somewhere…It seems like a commercial praising a new washing powder which will wash your clothes whiter than the previous one : So the previous one, which was praised before does not work anymore and was just a rip off.”

Aline, thanks for pointing this out. This is so true. It’s exactly what advertisers do: “Buy the NEW! IMPROVED! Robert Earl Burton Teaching!”

And what ELSE do advertisers do? Yes, they repeat the buzzwords over and over:

Whalerider: “The word ’sequence’ was repeated about 122 times in that piece. BEEEEcause….(cue music) when it’s Libby’s, Libby’s, Libby’s on the label, label, label, you will like it, like it, like it, on your table, table, table,…”

Does it sound absurd? That’s because it IS absurd. Not only do we know almost nothing about the “ray of creation” and “awakening” and “ancient civilizations” or “arks” or “armageddon,” — and yes, we did profess to know something about these things — but our so-called “teaching” is nothing more than…

…a Marketing Strategy.

Is that a scary thought, or what?!

72. veramente - May 12, 2008

67. sharon –
N… – so many posts at once, you are starting to read a little manic to me. You’ve told us you struggle with bi-polar, sincerely sorry if this is too blunt.
—————-

With respect: skipping posts is a good solution if you do not like them.

73. sharon - May 12, 2008

veramente – I did not dislike nigel’s posts. I am sincerely concerned about him, considering his disorder. If that concern is unwarranted – wonderful!

74. sharon - May 12, 2008

big sorry, should have n…..ed the name – he is so open about it, I did not think to do so.

75. steve lang - May 12, 2008

My favorite part about Robert’s current “teaching” – which to me is nothing more than anger management meets the serenity prayer, is that he insists on how much you will see a very strong resistance to these ideas. Hmmm, I wonder why there is such a strong resistance?
Could it be that our COMMON SENSE is telling us to run away from such absurd ideas??

76. Rear View Mirror - May 12, 2008

Yes.

77. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 12, 2008

41 and 51 are newly moderated.

78. Ill Never Tell - May 12, 2008

I guess if you want to see this picture you have to copy and paste it into your browser address window. Make sure you copy the whole thing all the way out to the .jpg and make sure when you paste it into the address window that the whole address is there out to the .jpg just in case a line break some how got in there.
Then hit ‘enter.’ Good Luck:

.
.
.

79. unoanimo - May 12, 2008

Hello Arthur ~

You wrote ~

Unoanimo:I don’t want to frighten you but yours looks like a space ship circling a worm hole, Lebewohl!!

__________

I am not frightened Arthur, after all, its better to be a spaceship circling a wormhole than a whole worm circling a space ship, Wooooo! And with a freight train whose front grill is in the shape of the most ancient of esoteric symbols, decked out with four high impact resistant 4×4 Hella Off-Road Lanterns riding shotgun, I am even more resolute that indeed, we will make it!

..)

80. lauralupa - May 12, 2008

sharon 68
“Just to clarify, what depressed me (quite a bit!) was not RB’s words – I’m used to that bs, I can laugh at it. What hurts is the full-blown cult mentality of the inane comments by the followers, some of whom I used to think had brains and talent.”

You expressed exactly how I feel. Really, really sorry for them.
And more than a bit pissed off. It feels like an itchy patch of scaly skin getting sore from being rubbed by a toxic compound leached from a moldy rusty can infested with worms…
it’s just groooss.

I’ve posted this song before, but it matches this physical condition quite well. Hail to the Thief!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NoCtonftiXA

81. ton - May 12, 2008

laura 32 and to all you mothers out there, happy mother’s day… belated.

warning:
the video, called ‘concentration moon’ (get it?) though nostalgic, contains images relating to current conditions of ‘air-breathing, bipedal existence… some may find it disturbing, you can always scroll past :

82. lauralupa - May 12, 2008

ton 80
Now that you mention it, a lot of the ladies who write on this blog are mothers…
Happy Mamma’s day everyone!
(BTW, my daughters totally forgot mine, it’s those damn teenage years)

83. zannos - May 12, 2008

Testing

84. elena - May 12, 2008

Pensate un attimo 21

Thanks greatly for your contribution.It is amply revealing.

One aspect is that Robert is having students “participate” again. Of course in the extremely limited form of participation in which all they can do is read what he chooses for them to read but it is very different to four years of only Asaf and Robert being the chosen ones to put up with for the whole meeting. This gives a sense of community, valuation of individuals and other primal necessities people have.

Just being called upon to read an angle in the Fellowship of Friends has become a blessing to the highly convicted and committed students. What matters is not what they read but reading to the psychologically dependent follower. Being chosen by the God, divine being man number 8 is “the blessing” and completely reinforces the hierarchic structure of those who consider themselves “the inner circle”.

Were we to look closely at R. Thiel, M. Golding and the rest in this list, it would not be at all difficult to realize the payments and surrenderings each one of them have done to be happy to at last get to a place where they are now the inner circle holding the Fellowship of Friends Cult. These are much respected people for me, in a very sad place. Respected in that like I, when I was there, they are doing what they think is true and honest for themselves.

Another aspect is the references to world cultures. In the mentality of Fellowship of Friends standards, the sad truth is that many of these people think that what Robert is giving them is actually CULTURE, they do not want to do without it and they think they are learning about human heritage or different cultures. Sadly, like the ballet he rubbed down our noses as the starter for the evening orgy, all his references are a cheap stereotype of culture with so much Fellowship make up that none of its essence is any longer recognizable.

The sequence itself is a mantram in which followers (as Whalerider taught me, difficult as it was!) are meant to indulge their intellectual centre day and night. The exercise itself requires will. The follower then feels he is doing something, he is “working”; the School is teaching him something and making him make efforts which he does not wish to not have by leaving it. She is voluntary submitting his will not to this brainwashing but to this awakening process in their point of view. For as long as the followers don’t realize that keeping busy with carefully designed exercises so that he/she does not make a direct connection between himself, his own simple authority and the world around him through his own unconditioned, free centres, then, he cannot observe the exercise as a brainwashing tool. The key will always remain in the authority figure behind the action. The idolized cult leader or one’s own self.

I insist so often on looking at the centres because each centre has been brainwashed inside the Cult and it is they that simply replace one form of living for another while the authority of the individual is simply replaced by Robert Burton himself. The idolatry pattern, the dictatorial authority of the Cult leader, completely replaces the individual’s freedom to develop himself learning from life in the Fourth Way and results in a very modern mixture proper to American Cults apparently, in which the ancient pattern of Teacher-Student relation, degenerates into a modern pattern of Teacher,dictator, cultleader, banker, father and sexual recipient-Student, militant, follower, tax payer, servant, sexual provider, energy provider, voluntary slaves, all at the same time.

The intellectual centre is brainwashed with the sequence and all of Robert’s comments. In the style he uses, he addresses both the intellectual and emotional centre to fulfill student’s dependency.

The moving centre is brainwashed by the king of hearts act, no exercise, no sports, no spontaneity.

The emotional centre with gold alchemy impressions replacing direct emotional contact between students. Still life, or dead gold alchemy replaces the living vibrations, spontaneous vibrations people actually emit in an environment free of conditionings. This is by far the most deadly aspect of the Fellowship of Friends.

The instinctive centre is as intensely programed as the others by conditioning it to make a lot of money if you want to have any kind of role in this cult or If you cannot make a lot of money then give your life up to working inside of it unconditionally. You either have money to keep a slight freedom to do anything outside the cult (Poor you who have to work in life) or you give your life to working inside.

The psychological pattern that is obviously being used as a model is that of the student-teacher relationship of the yogi and monk in which the student gives his “life” up to the teacher and follows him where ever the teacher wishes to go. The interesting contrast is that the Teacher here does not wish to go anywhere or take anyone anywhere exept keep them going around in circles in which their pockets are emptied at each turn. More than anything else, he wishes the Fellowship of Friends to make money. This is a fact. No other activity is as relevant as this one in the Fellowship. The dinners, events, auctions, donations etc that we spent thirty five years doing in excess is the daily activity in the Fellowship and those in position of any kind are there to guarantee the money flowing out of people into Robert’s decision making pocket. Any other activity is insignificant compared to this one. Ninety percent of the time is spent making money. Were students to look at this fact, they would easily equate it with the fact that this IS INFLUENCE A at its most efficient and the students that hold inner circle credibility are either those that are bringing in a fat red check or those that are efficient in getting all the little meager checks from the students who don’t have a lot of money, through less expensive events.

Credibility in the Fellowship of Friends Cult is not about who you are, what you’ve experienced in your work and life, the capacity you have to share your being with others or the simplicity of being but the efficiency with which you can unplug yourself from your inner trust and condone it blindly to Robert’s authority quickly replacing and adapting your functions to the codified life of the Fellowship. This codification, this tremendous lack of freedom to make your own decisions, to think and feel, eat and move as a direct response to life in its own terms and not Robert Burton’s codified indoctrination, is what makes the Fellowship of Friends a Cult and students, delusional slaves of a cheap but very efficient mediocrity.

Mediocrity is the hallmark of people who cannot think for themselves. Who would rather idolize another man, than have the courage to make mistakes and correct them, to fall and stand up. In the long run, like children who never dared to walk, they become crippled souls.

These people need help. Whoever thinks that they are doing them a favor letting them choose this way of life, does not understand the dimension of horror that has gripped them to this slavery. It is as if someone were being half eaten by a dragon and we just looked in a different direction saying, Oh, he likes that, without putting a stop to the trampoline that has been set up to make them think it is heaven and not a dragon.

Thank you all for your short contributions, they do seem to inspire me to look at many aspects. Sorry to those that already know it all for indeed they are repetitions hopefully more synthetically presented.

85. Joe Average - May 12, 2008

As disturbing and depressing as the “Strong City End of the World Cult Movie” was, the quotes from current members in #21 were even more so. When I was first directed to the blog on 1 March of last year (thank you “Roberto Sanchez”, whoever you are!), hearing voices from outside the bubble was a joyful, liberating experience. Now, hearing voices from inside the bubble feels like the opposite, like touring Buchenwald.

But what stuck me was that the members’ quotes still made sense in a way, whereas everything from RB was such obviously insane gibberish. Apart from a couple of quotes from sucked-dry, brain-dead suck-ups just imitating RB (e.g. “The sequence is the most perfected instrument of change ever given to men”), these quotes reflected honest attempts at practical work, as much as that is still possible within the rotting hulk of the FOF. It also occurred to me that each of the approximately 15,000 people who have been touched by the FOF have “surpassed their teacher”. Granted, it is not hard to do.
I have known most of these people for many years. It is heart-rending to remember their sad, blank eyes shuttered tight against all unauthorized influence, to hear their voices, knowing how desperately they are pacing in circles; continually, convulsively twisting away in terror from the obvious contradictions in their lives.

R.M.Rilke’s “Panther” (trans.Robert Spielman)

His gaze, from the constantly passing bars,
Has grown so weary that it can hold no more.
To him it is as if there are a thousand bars,
And beyond those thousand bars, no world.

The gentle slink of his powerful, supple stride,
Turning in on itself in ever-smaller circles,
Is as a ritual dance of strength around a center
In which a great will stands paralyzed.

Occasionally the curtain of his pupils
Will silently rise, admitting an image.
Passing through the tense stillness of his limbs,
It plunges into his heart and is no more.

86. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

69 – Hi, Sharon

Actually, there is no problem. I was going to see Dr Shellock, Dr Midgley’s locum about the blogging maybe driving me hypo-manic, but not so. My repost is “Why are you being defensive?”. My aim is to help with the blog, and those trying to come to terms with parting from the FOF. I know that I am real and, as such, have nothing to defend. More will follow, when I achieve a good night’s first-state. Nigel.

87. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

83 Elena

Keep going, my lovely!…..Nigel.

88. sharon - May 12, 2008

85 – nigel.
I’m glad to hear it. Blog on.

89. nigel harris price - May 12, 2008

Hi Sharon, again
Could not resist scrolling back to ‘clue myself in again’. Feeling tired.
Nigel.

90. sharon - May 12, 2008

Hi nigel – I probably shouldn’t be at the computer myself, just coming down from a 2/3-day migraine, I don’t think very well at this point…

91. elena - May 13, 2008

while i run with machine guns to the swimming pool others move in their pijamas to the meeting hall.
relativity is practical around here! What fun!

Goodnight Sharon, goodnight Nigel! Hope you feel better in the morning!

92. WhaleRider - May 13, 2008

On a lighter note:

Lives are like retractable pencils
If you push them too hard they’re gonna break
And people are like paper dolls
Paper dolls and people
They’re a similar shape
Love is like a roll of tape
It’s real good for makin’ two things one
But just like the roll of tape
Love sometimes breaks off
Before you are done
Another way that love is similar to tape
That I’ve noticed
Is sometimes it’s hard to see the end
You search on the roll with your fingernail
Again and again and again and again
Brown paper, white paper
Stick together with the tape
The tape of love
The sticky stuff…

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fycGFGSeKpc

(One day, way in the future, well after all of us alive today will have long passed over, a higher school based in my namesake of New Zealand will conclude from researching these two guys that they represent the long be and short be of our higher centers.)

93. Associated Press - May 13, 2008

83. elena – May 12, 2008

Very nice, all that you say. But simply put: FoF & REB, in particular, are predators. If they could. they’d eat human flesh. Instead, there is the next best thing, human semen. Eating the lower self directly produces that in kind, the lower self in one. You are what you eat. Truly swallowing the serpent by the tail. All else that goes on is in support of this purpose by putting on the show that the externals expect to see. How prehistoric and an invention of the reptilian brain:


*

94. nigel harris price - May 13, 2008

91 Whalerider

Nice poetry, and I did have a good night’s first state. Maybe I am too busy with the glorious weather we are having in Devon (South-West England) these past few days…..Nigel.

95. Across the River - May 13, 2008

21 Pensate un attimo

Dear All,

Just wanting to add my voice to the others here, deeply moved and saddened to find this magical thinking still stunting these otherwise bright and intelligent people. It’s almost like trying to reach someone with autism. The saddist part is that their recovery idly waits, yet unknown to them, while the precious hours, days, weeks of their lives are spent in reality sowing the very seeds of regret from which they will have to recover.

96. arthur - May 13, 2008

Since post 21, I’ve been reading comments about how smart, intelligent, bright or creative the people listed are??

97. veronicapoe - May 13, 2008
98. arthur - May 13, 2008

Since Robert Earl Burton is The Arbiter of the Fellowship of Friends and Man #7.3 (is that right, 7.3?), then maybe it’s time for him to take a series of Plant Teacher sessions to verifying his number to his Followers and ease the minds of his creative and bright inner circle?

99. arthur - May 13, 2008

That should be “Verify” his number to his Followers…….

100. Yesri baba - May 13, 2008

“Because two minutes in heaven are better than one minute in heaven.” – ( Vydonia Bologme on the effectiveness of the sequence )

101. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 13, 2008

60, 95 and 97 are newly moderated.

102. elena - May 13, 2008

Across the River.95

What a beautiful way to put it. Gratitude.

103. Rear View Mirror - May 13, 2008

One question is how often FoF followers actually “use” the “sequence.”

From the beginning, there’s been a considerable amount of pretense in this cult — i.e., what’s more important than the “efforts” themselves, is the appearance to others that “one is making efforts.”

But if FOF followers actually ARE “using the sequence,” then I wonder about the effects on their psychological well-being. Like so many aspects related to self-hypnosis and autosuggestion, or any drug, not all of the effects are good ones…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autosuggestion

“Autosuggestion (or the related autogenic training) is a process by which an individual trains the subconscious mind to believe something, or systematically schematizes the person’s own mental associations, usually for a given purpose. This is accomplished through self-hypnosis methods or repetitive, constant self-affirmations, and may be seen as a form of self-induced brainwashing…

“Autosuggestion is most commonly accomplished by presenting (either through caressing or bombarding) one’s mind with repetitive thoughts (negative or positive), until those thoughts become internalized. Practitioners typically hope to transmute thoughts into beliefs, and even into actualities. Visualizing the manifestations of a belief, verbally affirming it, and thinking it using one’s “internal voice”, are typical means of influencing one’s mind via repetitive autosuggestion. Autosuggestion is normally thought of as a deliberate tool, but it can also refer to an unintentional process…

“The same type of effect that deliberate autosuggestion may achieve can also be seen in individuals not consciously trying to program themselves through autosuggestion. The dominant thoughts that occupy a person’s conscious mind, if constantly present over an extended period of time, may have the effect of training that person’s subconscious mind to organize that individual’s beliefs according to those thoughts. In this sense, the mechanisms of pathological fixations and obsessions to some extent resemble the process of autosuggestion.”

———-

By the way, does Post #21 feel like one of those “buzzword generators” or what? It’s uncanny: http://dack.com/web/bullshit.html

To truly make progress in our effort to awaken, and to use The Sequence in a way that repurposes granular models, we must embrace visionary networks, and we must incentivize end-to-end applications to enable seamless bandwidth in our task to morph best-of-breed services. The main advantage of The Sequence is that it synthesizes open-source interfaces. But many have noted that The Sequence also cultivates impactful deliverables. [And so on…]

If anyone finds a Cult Lingo Buzzword Generator, I’d like to see it. From what I can tell, it could easily create the same content that we’re reading in Post #21.(Thanks for sharing, Pensate un attimo.)

104. Rear View Mirror - May 13, 2008

testing

105. Rear View Mirror - May 13, 2008

For a moment, be aware of that internal response mechanism that says, “We are different.”

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html

106. somebody - May 14, 2008

The meeting (#21) gives me a headache too, because there is a lot of material (images, quotations, information) mixed with nonsense and brainwashing.

If we take out of the meeting 40 images,

33 quotations (students’ thoughts not included)

there will be 39 thoughts from the teacher left,

10 of which are about what represents what
(The four cloud-like shapes on either side represent the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths.).

From the 29 left thoughts only 14 are about the sequence
(The sequence is the antidote to imagination)

8 are the “approval”
(Our greatest help is one another. We are most present when we are together.)

and 7 are the most crazy (my favorite is “The great Pyramid reflects Egypt’s love of sequence”)

1 We have seen images of the Ten Commandments from the prehistoric period found on the soil of Israel. They were the same people before they formalized into the Jewish people.

2 I once watched a video about two serpents—the king snake and the rattlesnake—both of which we have at Apollo. The two snakes met and clashed, and the king snake very quickly killed the rattlesnake. The king snake is immune to the venom of the rattlesnake, just as, if we are firm in our intention to be present, the sequence is immune to the venom of the lower self.

3 We must not take the outer meaning seriously, for it precludes inner understanding. For example, “Moses died at one hundred twenty” actually refers to the inhalation and exhalation of the sequence. Lao-Tzu and Kabir also died at one hundred twenty. In fact, only one person in the history of the earth is known to have lived to be one hundred twenty—a gentleman in Japan. So we must look at the inner meaning of the numbers.

4 Of course, the reason we were given the physical body is to produce the astral body.

5 It was perfected long before Egypt. So far we have traced it back to 100,000 BP, and there is evidence of the message even earlier than that. We recently saw an object with thirty incisions dating to 270,000 BP. The sequence is the greatest gift the Absolute gave to man. It has been delivered to us from the celestial city of Paradise, by angels who are in the room, to enable us to be present, and for our souls to migrate and join them at some point forever and ever. This is the sequential gift they have brought us to strengthen what we already have.

6 The Great Pyramid reflects Egypt’s love of the sequence.

7 Mohammed called Be the “piercing star,” because it pierces imagination. Perhaps we can publish a little book containing our revelations about the sequence, which like the Kabbalah, would be without names.

107. unoanimo - May 14, 2008

Hello ‘somebody’ ~

Today I was sitting, thinking about how I could post the quotes I have from Robert (March 1 & 2, 2008) without going backwards into myself, i.e., ‘tongue in cheek sarcasm’, etc. Your post #106 brought me around to just putting these two sentences out here and see what response they get (?) I am mainly inviting new bloggers (current F.O.F. members) to comment on the quotes’ possible ‘inner meaning’ (conscience/how they feel in your gut)…

So, here goes ~

“The Moving Center, if uncontrolled, is merely an extension of the mouth.”
_________________

Do any current members of the F.O.F. ‘feel’ that the need to create the ‘Us & They’, having moved into your own body-sphere, i.e., ‘Divine Presence’ (Us or Student) and “merely an extension” (They or It) is producing a redemptive state of affairs where you can definitely and daily see a progression in your work

or is it a reinforcement couched in the subconscious belief (administered by an outside person who claims he’s in direct contact with objective Conscious Beings, though changes his mind about a person’s lifetime# when their participation level in the F.O.F. merits it) that you’re not on you last lifetime, so, you’ll not awaken no matter what you do, then such quotes as the one above (again, coupled with the belief that now is not your time to obtain a goal that’s not the experience of your second to second life anyway) seem to make sense and prolongs the actual conscious work of entering your inner spaces and allowing ‘them’ to speak for themselves, without hope, labels, competition and superstition?
_________________

“Sometimes I practice the sequence with the aim of strengthening the ability to practice the sequence. It is an exercise, like doing push ups.”
_________________

Do any current F.O.F. members see the insatiable Affirmative Circle here, i.e., an inescapable Irony?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I saw an old friend the other day: he’s visiting from the land of the tulips… He looked straight into my car window when we both slowly drove by one another: I figure he got a good study of the rear-side of my rear view mirror, though not me… It’s Ok, I can take it old friend… It seems to be a stretchy time for my heart and lots of oddities confirm this; May has seemingly always proven to be a ‘May I?’ month…

Good luck F.O.F. members with the external ‘father and his procreated celestial family’ you’re supporting with your ‘attention’…

Does anyone out there see the flip side of ‘External Consideration’ in the hands of someone who chooses who he considers, the condition of that consideration and rules of engagement, how it could be subconsciously ‘used’ to not see your internal Conscience or be/act from your present level of being-core?

Maybe this is just what ‘teachers’ do, though if so, I cannot see any room to be taught if the student cannot raise their hand and be called upon by the teacher to show to the rest of the class what the student has achieved by having the teacher for a Muse in the first place: in that light, the product you’ve achieved in the Sunday meeting form implies?

I sense that the ‘personal angles’ stopped because they were one flip of two letters away from being 1800+ ‘angels’ in the F.O.F. asking their representative ‘personal’ quest-questions concerning feelings, contradictions, hypocrisies, etc., all the things unapproachable by Robert’s teaching and pending a “certain something”. IMO, to consume a teacher (To kill the Buddha on the Street if you see him.) he has to be available for every level of hunger… Is this the case today? I am curious if there’s been a change since 2007 (?)

There’s an old shamanic saying that you have to kill your father in order to progress: I recently did this symbolic, though real spiritual act with my father (and his imagined family ‘shade-tree’ whereby his past acts and attitudes lay unperturbed and blamed upon ‘a wife’)…

Something amazing happened: during the whole process I kept no accounts up front or hiding/’waiting for him to finish talking so I could then contradict and refine his version’; I kept to looking for understanding without undermining ‘his version’…

He hung up on me, though not before I gave offered back to him the echoes of his own current (never before heard by me) confessions and unfinished Conscience-weaving I and my mother have been carrying for 40+ years, I in ignorance and she in some sort of ‘I’ll carry this unborn, painful kicking shadow-child within me to the edges of my Death because that’s what we women do.’ He accepted his confessions and me too… Wow, what a day that was!

The death of his belief that since I was his son (imagining to his best ability that I was following in his footsteps), that my footprints and tripping could somehow reinforce his and even pile on more carpets to the unseen Conscience-dust of his long ago transference of ‘All the Blame’ over to my mother’s side (and some other juicy tid-bits too)…

I could tell that in his voice he was ready for it; everything I asked and that he answered was brought out without a crowbar and screaming or ‘couch-potato talk medium-ship’, i.e., that lazy Immortal called ~ ‘We’ll get to this when you come home, whenever that is…’, pushing ahead and pigeonholing of real soul-issues that are ancestor-ially shinning and can only be lived within the moment they’re discovered or uncovered, IMO…

Now he/we know that our soul-business is connected, though not playing shade-tree for one another’s unmet conscience and the tending to those pangs ringing in the daily ears of whatever it is that he or I feel is the work to do down here on Earth…

There’s nothing so utterly confusing than two Welcome Mats facing one another having no door in between: IMO the door is necessary because it means that we can and have acknowledged one another’s ‘knocks’ to be called upon to be responsible for our lives lived from the inside out and visa versa

or at least settle into the difference between excuses & justifications (and) present-feelings & admissions of our right-now-relationship to whatever it is we’re feeling or experiencing about a given subject…

IMO, if a teacher is not available for this sort of ‘death’ every day, under any circumstance or ‘surprise visit’ or ‘phone call/email’, Sunday meeting or Walk-in, then, he or she is still ‘alive’, which is great, though it implies something spiritual…

IMO, it means that you have met with a mirror that will not break to spite your being so enamored with looking into it… This is a terrifying realization and I only wish all of you the best with it…

If you’re ‘dead’, life can then get on with its real business, that’s far more than superstitions concerning life on the moon and the Us and They conspiracy theories… Die and be happy for Life’s sake.

_______________

L.t.y.a.

108. veramente - May 14, 2008

Honestly I still do not know what this “sequence” is, except that among other things it really sounds so extremely pedantic and boring beyond belief.
zzzzz………
REB somniferous, bringing or inducing sleep, as drugs or influences.
————

I’ll Never Tell # 51, I still could not open the link you provided. Now I am curious.

109. lauralupa - May 14, 2008

Dear veramente, these two posts from page 29 will que you in…

188 Crouching Tiger

The sequence is… “BE-Hold-[theme]-Back-[theme]-BE”. The theme is the action of the moment, one of the thirty Work I’s, although some were favoured more than others.

The idea was to initiate the desire for presence with the first two steps, pin it down to an activity (like ‘read’) with the third, deflect Imagination or any distracting thoughts with the fourth, and return reinvigorated to the quest at steps 5 and 6.

In practice, it’s almost impossible to superimpose this grid on the flow of thoughts. There’s the perennial problem of trying to correct the mind by travelling at the speed of the mind, and I didn’t find my sense of awareness very responsive to that, or enriched by it.

The most useful result I found was that it enables you to be more aware of the flow of your thoughts at step 4. At least you have two forces together there.

198 steve lang
Here it is – the thirty work I’s;
Be (Be Present)
Hold (Hold the sequence with Presence)
Pray (Choose the theme of the sequence; i.e. Look, Hear)
Back (Watch the lower self)
Turn (Return to the theme of the sequence; i.e. Look, Hear)
Long Be (Prolong Presence)
Act (Engage Presence)
Peace [Pax] (Avoid the entire spectrum of negative emotions)
Leave (Avoid identification)
Kneel (Do not resent friction)
Drop (Do not judge or keep accounts)
Use (Use voluntary suffering)
Wit (Avoid wit)
Now (Think neither of the past nor of the future)
Look (Look with Presence)
Move (Move with Presence)
Taste (Taste with Presence)
Hear (Listen with Presence)
Feel (Feel with Presence)
Smell (Smell with Presence)
Talk (Speak with Presence)
Think (Think with Presence)
Read (Read with Presence)
Write (Write with Presence)
Child (Remain in essence; avoid false personality revolving around chief feature)
Serve (Do not inner consider, externally consider)
Scale (Use scale and relativity)
Aim (Keep aim and complete octaves; be aware of third forces)
Time (Remember the brevity of life)
Gods (Remember the gods)

190 Draco
The sequence was invented by Asaf and Robert. Before the emphasis on Keys, Robert and company came up with a list of 14 ways to presence that students were supposed to use. That was a damp squib. Then there were the keys,

Robert and Asaf decided that a statement in the Conference of the Birds, “Out of thousands of birds that set out on the journey, only thirty birds of the outer world contemplated the face of God in the inner world. ”
Robert has a very literal mind and he took this to mean that there must be exactly 30 specific work ‘I’s and he and Asaf produced a list of them which then were taken to be the esoteric meaning of the number 30 in any religious or spiritual tradition. Then they set to work on the number 6. Initially, the number 6 represented the first 6 of the thirty work ‘I’s. But this was soon forgotten once Asaf got his hands on some wooden cubes on which a student had inscribed the work ‘I’s. Asaf started arranging the cubes in sequences and he and Robert decided that the number 6 in all traditions referred to this sequence. The sequence was announced to the ’school’ then changed a few times. Then Asaf and Robert decided that just about any symbol in religious tradition must refer to the sequence. Any reference to a beginning’ was to the beginning of the sequence, ‘end’ the end of the sequence, ‘middle’ the middle, etc. It only takes a tiny bit of research to realize that these religious texts are NEVER referring to anything like Robert/Asaf’s sequence in the quotations that are used in the Galleria.

It is quite lovely and a wonderful thought, is it not?

110. lauralupa - May 14, 2008

I meant these three posts… geez, sorry for that, numbers are SOOOOOO important

111. arthur - May 14, 2008

Texas investigated another sect for years: By Angela K. Brown for the Associated Press.

She calls “The House of Yahweh” a darker sect.

The local District Attorney said, “If a bunch of adults want to get together and follow some con man and throw their lives away, that’s their right in this country”.

A former member said, “so many lives have been destroyed by what’s been going on over there”

A current member said, “when people leave The House of Yahweh, they go out and feed the rumors and add more lies”.

The cult leader (Yisrayl Hawkins) was arrested in February and bail was set at 10 million because of a perceived threat in a sermon, “I’m just asking that you be willing to die rather than leave this house”.

The judge reduced it to $100,000 because the gate guards at the compound are unarmed and suicide is counter to the church teachings.

Too bad Robert Earl Burton doesnt live in Texas while the searching for weird cults is hot.

112. arthur - May 14, 2008

I forgot to add what else the District Attorney said because I was thinking about the petition and the Fellowship of Friends, “their right to follow con men”.

“But to me, when you do that to children and they don’t have a chance, that’s where the biggest concern is”.

113. somebody - May 14, 2008

108 Veramente

I relate to this question. I don’t understand what the sequence is either and what is a big deal about it. Basically anyone who can control attention for a few seconds can be very successful with the sequence. What is typical for the “events” is that Robert can talk too much about nothing. I would expect to hear from the teacher something more practical about the teaching or a technique, but all he is talking about is how amazing this technique is and how lucky we are to “discover” that all esoteric schools used the same technique and left some secret messages about it. Very shallow. Here I replaced the word “sequence” with the word “technique”:

The most beautiful thoughts about a technique will come from this meeting.

The technique is the antidote to imagination.

The technique detects the lower self like nothing else. We had self-remembering and divided attention for thirty-seven years, but we had no idea what a problem the lower self was. The technique is his Achilles’ heel.

This morning we have prolonged presence without a technique.

The technique is freedom of thought. Very few people wish freedom from thought. The lower self likes to display an encyclopedic mind. I read that by the year 2020, there will be computers a million times more intelligent than an incredible figure like Leonardo.

Not too long ago we went to Egypt and detected the message for the first time, and now we understand this marvelous message. The six figures represent Be, Hold, Theme, Back, Theme, and BE.

Here the Buddha—the steward—is using a technique, resting upon a square pillow. The three figures in front represent the three Be’s. The lower self does anything it can to break the sequence; therefore, we must do everything we can to complete it.

The three legs of the table, and the three dice, both refer to the three Be’s. Incredibly, there are twenty-one points on the dice, representing using a successful technique. It means that the steward—card number one—will transcend himself into card twenty-one.

It was perfected long before Egypt. So far we have traced it back to 100,000 BP, and there is evidence of the message even earlier than that. We recently saw an object with thirty incisions dating to 270,000 BP. The technique is the greatest gift the Absolute gave to man. It has been delivered to us from the celestial city of Paradise, by angels who are in the room, to enable us to be present, and for our souls to migrate and join them at some point forever and ever.

114. elena - May 14, 2008

Nothing has changed inside the bubble. Less students but the boys are just as many, the ballet, auctions, lines, meetings, dinners continue unperturbed. Time has stopped in a frozen form that is interpreted as ‘eternity taking place’ by the addicts. Those who leave but never really existed do not alter the momentum of the frozen form that allows no space for grieving. As long as the daily card continues to freeze the possibility of creation, the illusion of well being continues to hold the status quo of not being. “I am not, therefore I am” has been artfully interwoven in the organic membrane of the passive followers and the art of not being is conceived as the long road to becoming. How could the Work turn so violently against its practitioners? Did the fact that it was written down in too academic a form lead to this systematic cancer of beings?

The boys seat in underwear waiting for their turn at night and the addicts seat in their uniform for the meeting hoping for their turn during the day. Waiting in line has become the condition to being.

“You knew we were being raped, you knew we were being used, you knew we were thoroughly deceived, indoctrinated, brainwashed, why didn’t you help us, it was over four hundred of you in the Greater Fellowship, why did you not do anything but speak between yourselves?” was said fifteen years later, after a whole new generation of young people was put through the same grinder that the older generation, many of whom left knowingly, did nothing about it. Words are not enough.

The older students hang to the fossilized life they crystallized into and the younger ones openly aim to crystallize it into a never ending circle of “The Same”. Not having to be is a great substitute to being and making it be always the same, is a great substitute to letting it be constantly created.. Sexuality gets fixed into the castrating embroidery of the frozen image and the possibility of wonder is condemned to the darkness of fixed forms. Robert sucks semen (life) out of the men, the Fellowship sucks the raison d’etre out of the participants. People perish not in the struggle to live, but fade away in the struggle to crystallize.

115. lauralupa - May 14, 2008

“I am not, therefore I am”

Wonderful tagline for the FoF, Elena. You go, girl!
And no, it’s not an esoteric message, just a very successful marketing strategy.

How long will the boys and girls in the Bubble keep nodding and snoozing while we dance in a circle around them?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i8zZZFRCePU

116. More history needed? - May 14, 2008

Did anybody ever call the dDistricts Attorney in Yuba county?

One student did. The investigator said: Why would you want to stay?

Just join another church if they do not allow you to their church.

Any other experiences calling the districts attorney’s office in Yuba county?

117. arthur - May 14, 2008

“A cult following” isnt that typical Americana? Marilyn Monroe, Jackie Kennedy, James Dean, Elvis Presley, The Rolling Stones,
Robert Earl Burton, Oprah, Tolle and Me?

118. WhaleRider - May 15, 2008

Nigel:
Thanks for your comment. BTW, it’s OK to say that you slept well. I(we) know what you mean, and I (we) won’t hold it against you if you say that you had a good night’s sleep. Aside from a good long walk, a good night’s sleep is the second best anti-depressant I know. Saying that you slept well doesn’t mean that you aren’t working on yourself, for goodness sake. Avoiding the word sleep and using “first state” instead is Felllowshipspeak and doesn’t make you more awake, it just promotes an illusion of working on one’s self. Namaste Nigel, I wish you well.

More History Needed:
The real question to put to the authorities is this: is the Fellowship a legitimate church? How you ‘frame’ an argument determines the response you will get from bureaucrats.

119. More history needed? - May 15, 2008

Thanks Whalerider (GREAT movie BTW).

Any other suggestions/ questions to ask a DA, any more suggestions to get them interested in the fellowship of friends as a cult?

120. veramente - May 15, 2008

109 Lauralupa
113 somebody
——————-
Thank you two for the posts about the sequence which really seems an obsessive compulsive method for control continually destined to fail of course and that is why one is supposed to go back to it, indefinitely.
I am getting a stomach ache reading this stuff while realizing even more fully the implications for this self inflicted mental abuse “students” impose on themselves…
The ” Divine School of Presence” is the Way of the Lunatic.

121. Yesri baba - May 15, 2008

It seems to me that one funda(mental) question is:

Are we, because of the force of the world and our habitual nature (ego) contracting away from an eternal nature. Or are we limited and trying to grow out , to create expanding consciousness (soul, astral body etc.)

It is a simplistic question and yet the implications at the core of that question are the heart of all the lies, manipulations and insanity of cults like the FOF.

If the former is true then all technologies of attention ( divided attention, sequence, meditations of concentration, etc.) only serve to exacerbate the contracted condition. It is trying to lift yourself by your own bootstraps.

I remember people saying not to be ‘identified’ with efforts and then still making some causal connection with some ‘state’ occuring down the time line because of those efforts as if something were being accumulated. It would seem that after ten, fifteen, thirty years it would be apparent that this is not so.

Perhaps efforts to see what can grow and what doesn’t and technologies of the mind that allow us to relax into the expanse of what is always already here are what is needed.

If 5 grams of a fungus or some goopy soup from the Amazon can do it surely it is possible.

122. nigel harris price - May 15, 2008

I was reminded of something GIG said to Ouspensky:- “You have to follow a Teacher’s speciality in a School”. But I am not sure that REB has any real speciality – he is merely a homosexually voracious antique dealer (‘of no invention’ as Ruskin would put it). Most of the conscious beings ‘woshipped’ by the FOF put out a tremendous legacy of art work, music or literature. And the greatest Burton can claim is:- “I do not think, I am”. Says it all, no?

123. Ill Never Tell - May 15, 2008

108. veramente – May 14, 2008:

‘I’ll Never Tell # 51, I still could not open the link you provided. Now I am curious.’

Here it is:

I searched it out on the ‘net. But I thank a person on Greater Fellowship for having used the image and reminded us of our situation: ‘We have met the enemy and he is us.’

124. lauralupa - May 15, 2008

“The sequence needs considerable practice to master, but thanks to the cumulative nature of presence, results soon appear, and that invites one to continue.” [P Pacheco, London]

“The lower self would prefer to talk about, think about, read about, speak about, hear about, and write about the sequence, rather than practice it. In our favor, however, is the helping hand of Influence C.” [E Kehl, Apollo]

“To complete a successful sequence is the real ‘ladder of success.’” [J Kehl, Apollo]

“The sequence drills a small hole in the bubble of imagination; on the other side lies eternity.” [T Fenn, Apollo]

“The sequence is the seed of the new world.” [GA. Miño, Santiago de Chile]

“The sequence is the invisible rosary of man number four and up.” [L Bonvini, Paris]

“Since to complete a sequence requires everything we have, nothing is left for thinking of the past or future.” [A Zarookian, Apollo]

“The sequence is a skillful means for overcoming mental defilement.” [Ri Thiel, Apollo]

“The sequence is a lifeboat on a sinking ship. It is magic we can carry in our pocket, which works when we use it.” [A Goldman, Apollo]

“Completing a sequence is astral body building.” [Jo A Mortensen, Apollo]

“The sequence is the most perfected instrument of change ever given to men.” [Wayne M Apollo]

“The sequence is movement towards the invisible; the beginning of existence.”
[-R Altamirano, Apollo]

etcetera etcetera

yes, let’s keep on pouring emptyness into the void

or…

after so much sequence worshipping and wishful thinking, one might feel starved for reality. How nice to sink one’s teeth into something more substantial!
A report from the field like this one might help to gain some perspective on what the transformation game is all about.
Like yesri suggests, let’s get back to fundamentals.

http://www.elcollie.com/html/Issue45.html

125. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 15, 2008

123 is newly moderated.

126. Another Name - May 15, 2008

Dear friends,

Are we sure that the quotes are from those students?. Robert has used names from students before to make others believe that they stated those quotes.

Another student. The Work has the idea of external consideration Byron Katie gives us the practical uses how to implement these daily.

There is hope.
Time is a factor.
Bob Dylan said: And the time they are a chaaaaaaanging.

127. arthur - May 15, 2008

Every once in awhile I go through an internal “disturbance in the atmosphere”. Like a shaking head’s up. Thanks Yesri baba (121) and the link to E. Colli Lauralupa (124).

128. Rear View Mirror - May 15, 2008

Another name wrote: “Are we sure that the quotes are from those students? Robert has used names from students before to make others believe that they stated those quotes.”

Good point. The “quotes” do sound like REB’s comments with the names of followers attached to them. Similar to the old “renaissance vines”.

By the way, I love that term, “mental defilement.”

defilement: to make unclean or impure: as a: to corrupt the purity or perfection of : debase b: to violate the chastity of : deflower c: to make physically unclean especially with something unpleasant or contaminating d: to violate the sanctity of : desecrate e: sully, dishonor

Wow, sounds like a touchy topic for Burton.

But just to make absolutely clear what we’re talking about here… Mental defilement means any critical thinking that casts doubt on the sequence or REB, or the Fellowship.

Physical defilement of FOF followers — that’s completely ok.

129. James McLemore - May 15, 2008

veramente and somebody and lauralupa:

Thank you. I have been out the cult for almost thirty years. Sounds like a rather large and unwieldy sort of tool this sequence thing. It makes me a bit dizzy just reading the posts which describe it. Beyond the inane little comments that RB makes about it (he just sounds ridiculous at this point), there are people of some intelligence
trying to make use of this thing, and I was having trouble figuring out what it is they are doing. Is this the ‘natural’ evolution of the already RB distortions of self-remembering and self observation? Whatever it is, it appears that it would lend itself to an identification that seems to perpetuate the same game over and over. It results in that same ‘split’, where you get this ‘lower self’, which is that same old devil thingy.
In Robert’s words, “The sequence detects the lower self like nothing else”. So it seems almost as if it magnifies this ‘split’ which then causes the two halves to become even stronger. There is then the struggle against this perceived ‘lower self’ which instead of lessening it only strengthens it or forces the energies underground.
It is like trying to make something that has no real substance into something that does, so that an imaginary character can then transcend it. I cannot help but wonder if Robert Burton believes in what he says or just uses it to keep the flock hypnotized, but I don’t guess it matters.

A phrase that has come to me a number of times these last few years when there is the clear indication that I was once again quite mistaken about what I had taken as being who I am, is that this sense of ‘I am’, is ‘just a wrong idea about something that never existed anyway’.

130. God Laughing - May 15, 2008

Somebody, thank you!

Great effort to rip that meeting apart and analyze it.

One can see how impossible it is to digest in one hour
all those images, quotes and interpretations.
So the hour is over and you go…. eh?

Then you have quiche and white wine, sniff the roses
and… RB did it again, you are sucked up into the web of
a clever, manipulating sales man, who is counting
on you to come back for more.

More of what? More stuff stolen from all over history
ancient sages, art galleries, books etc, sold to you as a wisdom,
unique to the FOF, just for you, you, special lucky you…. eh?

Asaaf, long distance, is browsing the internet
like a good sales assistant-raking in the
intellectual goods and sending them to RB, who sifts and nibbles
through it all, and then high on Uppers
spouts it all out to his flock, (sheep) at the Sunday service.
Amen.

131. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - May 15, 2008

#124 Lauralupa: I really enjoyed the link on shared transformation. It resembles my beliefs and understandings. Thanks.

132. Ellen - May 15, 2008

Draco #60:

Thanks for the tip regarding Francis Roles. Both he and a man named Leon MacLaren started Fourth Way Schools in England after Mr. Ouspensky died. Both searched for that method which Ouspensky had heard about, but did not find, and both became convinced that Advaita Vedanta contained it as the Source. Both travelled to India for exposure to current (at that time, 1960s) Masters. Interesting perspective on the Fourth Way from both of these websites:

Roles’ study society-
http://www.studysociety.com/
MacLaren’s foundation-
http://www.maclarenfoundation.net/life2.htm
(interesting info about Schools, from a Fourth Way perspective, on the Wider Context link)
http://www.maclarenfoundation.net/context1.htm

Actually, there is a mantra that does exist within the Advaita Vedanta tradition, which is said to come from a very high (RoC-wise) level. To my knowledge it is given personally from a Teacher to his student, when both agree that the time is right/ripe. It is not formatorily given or applied, like a sloshed out plate of spaghetti from some esoteric cafeteria, but rather given and used with great care, attention, and understanding.

If current students find the sequence to bring more moments of presence more consistently, good luck to them. Mind controlling mind will have its day. They may find after a few years that they are merely spinning their wheels? The level of the mantra determines the results?

133. WhaleRider - May 15, 2008

FOF Work “I” #26
Serve (Do not inner consider, externally consider)

This is a subtle shift in meaning from how I understood these two terms relate to each other. Connecting them with the term “serve” suggests this: do not consider yourself, only consider others. This supports Elena’s axiom for the FOF, I am not, therefore I am.

I understood the meaning of inner considering to be this: don’t be internally preoccupied with how others might think of you when pursuing an aim no matter what your aim is, whether your aim is to externally consider another person or not. Simply put, being internally preoccupied takes you out of the moment.

An example of choosing not to ‘inner consider” applied in a healthy way would be asking to have one’s needs met without the concern of appearing needy. Asking to have one’s needs met is not selfish, but a mature way of being one’s self and taking care of one’s self, rather than expecting others to meet those needs.

The FOF version suggests that one should suppress one’s own needs in servitude, placing other’s needs before one’s own. One could reasonably argue that Mr Burton doesn’t apply this work “I” to himself when satisfying his sexual needs with his male followers most of whom are much younger than him.

Externally considering is synonymous with kindness and compassion. Compassion is defined as “a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.” It is the opposite of greed.

134. steve lang - May 15, 2008

I would love to know what results are achieved by practicing the “sequence”. Joanne Morten–n ‘s statement that the sequence is building her astral body in unverifiable. I was in FOF when the sequence was invented and that’s why I left. I saw no results and Robert Burton is selling an idea that really has no verifiable results, except for the numbing effect.

The thing I find most curious is how suddenly Robert is able to find hundreds of pieces of art, cave drawings, etc that all supposedly represent the idea of the sequence, yet who are all these cave writing, art creating people? Were they all “conscious beings”? It’s such a sad deception this nonsense that Burton keeps forcing on people.

If the property were to shut down it’s restaurant and yank up all those palm trees I bet another 500 people would leave. People stay for the most flimsy reasons.

135. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 15, 2008

132 is newly moderated.

136. sherman oaks - May 15, 2008

I left the Burton personality cult several years back. I was not a long term member, just slightly over a year, but it was all I needed however to suss out that something really didn’t smell right. I had heard the rumors and did my own research. I think the capper for me was the bit about not listening to the instinctive center. That sounded dangerous and a sure fire way of turning lemmings into grist for the mill, if i ever heard one. I did meet some wonderful people and I often wonder if they are okay and did they escape. How does one access the GF?

137. elena - May 15, 2008

Part I.

121. Yesri baba – May 15, 2008

Thank you for digging into such question and the opportunity of explore it together.

“It seems to me that one funda(mental) question is:
Are we, because of the force of the world and our habitual nature (ego) contracting away from an eternal nature. Or are we limited and trying to grow out , to create expanding consciousness (soul, astral body etc.)”

Contracting away or expanding consciousness? My impression would be there is contraction or withering or fossilizing when we stay in the sphere of purely instinctive material life but even that is not easy. I do not believe people in general live like that as the Fellowship indoctrinated us to believe. That is, that if you are not working on yourself you live a purely mechanical life. No way. What I see is that life or the things that happen to people make them shift from more superficial to deeper understandings. The world outside shapes a great deal of the process of the individual’s inner world and the individual returns with new life back to it in a constantly creative process of dialogue and creation. Most old people mellow out, understand something beautiful about their “having lived” even if they still have an act of negativity or complaint. Unfortunately many do seem to get old without grace in our time but there is much grace in the age itself beyond the act and everyone surrenders to their great fortune.

On expanding consciousness I suppose you mean expanding the individual’s consciousness about the spiritual realm. It matters how we look at it because the way it was painted to us in the Cult, we had to look, work and make efforts to reach consciousness to free ourselves from this life’s lower self. As if consciousness were a place that needed to be reached and not a condition that could be acquired. It particularly divided our conception of the world before us as good and bad, awakened and sleep, conscious and unconscious, higher and lower self but it never actually pinpointed the realm of the individual and the realm of the objective world. This is crucial. Man today has lost contact with objective reality because he accepts to be labeled as “subjective” when s’he tries to protect himerself (him/herself) from being shunned socially if he doesn’t comply with the status quo. It is an aspect of the old Catholic Christian division of good and bad together with the developing economic condition. In Cults, the notion of good and bad is displaced from the objective world of facts to the consent or dissent of the individuals and their consent is given blindly to the guru at hand. The loss of “common sense” is much more than the loss of the sense common to all centers, the loss of the sense of what is good and beautiful for the common, the community.

This might happen because the human being today does not really perceive himself with open conviction as the carrier of both the physical and the spiritual within himself and the physical world as a manifestation of the spiritual world. We do not perceive our lives as the opportunity to actualize the spiritual within the physical, renew it, recreate it and develop our selves further while we are at it. Centuries of Christian Catholic dogma have placed us in a condition of perceiving ourselves as physical beings only. Freedom from the Christian dogma landed us into ignorance of spiritual reality, in such a way that cults and the corrupted traditional religions together with the economic practices, can center the bad or good of the world on the individual beings and not on the social conditions that promote them and psychologically manipulate us with it rather than focus on the social structures that promote and condition the individual’s performance.. This is important and I had never understood it clearly. This is just a glimpse.

The focus of responsibility that is placed on what happens in the world around us is, by the mere fact that we have stopped perceiving the spiritual realm in the world we live in, placed on individual responsibility rather than on the actual objective consequences of the acts. So much so that Robert Burton can rape young men with the help of a thousand people and what is looked at is not the fact that young inexperienced men are being set up to be raped just like young inexperienced children are in Michael’s rape factory but the fact that the individuals involved are CONSENTING for it to happen, therefore it can happen by law, no matter if one or many involved are in a seriously vulnerable position and many much hurt in the long run. With this status quo, men like Robert and millions others in different activities of our society today, can get away with raping other people because their act is not perceived as an act that damages others but as an act others are consenting to. What is not explained or perceived is that people consent because they have displaced their objective understanding of what is right and wrong. Healthy or unhealthy, good or bad, to the subjective reality of what an authority can do without being questioned because s’he is the authority. So many centuries living under the status quo in which people with money can get away with murder has brought us to the state in which “murder” is what we are willing to pay for. We have dangerously come to accept that in order to protect our selves from being killed by the people in power, we consent to all their abuses of power so that they allow us to participate even in a second, third or fourth class psychological condition as well as economic and social.

Jobs themselves are categorized as good and bad. The more human the job, the less worthy. Caretaker jobs are looked at as bad jobs for useless people because taking care of others might be human but not profitable, while the big chair of the owner of the factory who does not move a finger but can boss everybody else around is looked as worthy and envious by the fact that he is getting seventy five percent of other people’s effort. The cake is dealt out in such proportions because we’ve lost sight of the cake and are looking at the cook as its owner, as if he were the divine creator of the flour.

Consciousness to me today is the extent to which an individual can grasp the spiritual realm in h/is/er physical surroundings: The degree to which s/he perceives the physical world as the sacred manifestation of spiritual forces. If one does not perceive it as sacred then one does not perceive it consciously. The fact that there is tremendous suffering in our world does not mean it is any less sacred. The fact that there is tremendous beauty, joy and pleasure in our world, does not mean it is any less physical or spiritual.

English is very limited in its management of his, her, she, he, so from now on I’ll use the s’he to replace she/he and heirs to replace his, her and himerself, to replace him/herself.

138. elena - May 15, 2008

Part II.

Yesri Baba: “It is a simplistic question and yet the implications at the core of that question are the heart of all the lies, manipulations and insanity of cults like the FOF.

If the former is true then all technologies of attention ( divided attention, sequence, meditations of concentration, etc.) only serve to exacerbate the contracted condition. It is trying to lift yourself by your own bootstraps.

I remember people saying not to be ‘identified’ with efforts and then still making some causal connection with some ’state’ occurring down the time line because of those efforts as if something were being accumulated. It would seem that after ten, fifteen, thirty years it would be apparent that this is not so.”

The question here is the effort rather than the ACT. In the Fellowship what mattered was that people made effort not what effort they made. We went around the world without recognizing our own house. It looks like in Cults the effort is so directed to the leader that idolatry replaces the possibility of making contact with LIFE itself. The fourth way is the way of life and idolatry is the opposite of it. It is the other end of the spectrum. The darkest and deepest end. What allows people to become so indoctrinated is that they are actually making all kinds of effort, beautiful efforts for a beautiful life but instead of that returning its actual dues, it gets deviated into the source of life being not life itself or the spirit of life but the guru at hand. People’s efforts turn against themselves and the greater the idolatry the more depleted their own sense of themselves becomes. We did not get to say as blatantly as the man in the End of the World Cult “I am an evil person” but we behaved for thirty-five years as if we, Robert Burton’s followers, were not worth a dime.
It is shocking that in the End of the World cult they can take away the children from their mother and there is nothing she can do about it because the current mind frame of the society condones the practice.

If we look at the video of the End of the World Cult which I now managed to access, we can see that the director did not show us how they actually lived, worked, made money, survived, etc. He probably avoided this because he wanted to concentrate on the deception and thought that if he showed how they actually live it would give strength to the cult itself. If we had a similar video of the Fellowship and looked at how beautifully people arrange the flowers, the gardens and serve dinners, hug each other when they meet or the impeccable potage and the Sunday lunch which was the closest thing to human that we ever came to, or the music and theater, no one would ever recognize the corruption behind the gold alchemy façade. Life could not look more beautiful than in those children’s faces showing total devotion to God-Michael. People accept the brainwashing because they are paying for it with their being expanded and presented in the work they do everyday in whatever octave it is they resonate with. What belongs to them in the Cult is their own effort so they think the cult is legitimate because their effort was legitimate and what they don’t want to see is that the cult is sucking life away against their well being, by not allowing them to make contact with it through their own being but through the guru’s presence. Because it is at their cost, the process turns against them and instead of developing consciousness within us it develops idolatry, which is a form of spiritual slavery in which the I itself literally sinks deep. Depression is in fact an I that has sunk deeply. The more obvious the act of exhilarating devotion is, the deeper the depression of the I that is being submitted into idolatry.

You say:
“Perhaps efforts to see what can grow and what doesn’t and technologies of the mind that allow us to relax into the expanse of what is always already here are what is needed.”

You say it beautifully and yet living is not really an effort. Children do not need to make effort to be open to their surrounding. That was inculcated in our psychology by the attitudes of our time towards people “having to work to make a living” reducing it to a merely instinctive need and by the Fellowship of Friend’s Cult so that it could convince its followers that they needed to be there in order to develop. Life is a gift. To work is an adult’s game and it is the most beautiful act of his/her life. It reveals his individuality to the rest of the world and how he translated his life or his gift into more gifts for the rest of us. To work as to play is joyful like taking a walk for a dog or finishing a great cathedral for an architect. Greater or lesser pleasure but pleasure still, pleasure in the Act, pleasure of being. That “Working” has become the slavery of the many for the benefit of a few is something we’ve been dealing with for a few centuries but the passage is not from the king to the people as much as from the divinity without to the divinity within. Our human struggles are mere pictures of the spiritual impetus. We have lost contact with art in our times and do not grasp the art of living or the art of working as an art-science, we have reduced it to the toil of making money so it feeds our stomach and depletes our heart, but this is not life, it is us and we are recovering, no matter how sick!

“If 5 grams of a fungus or some goopy soup from the Amazon can do it surely it is possible.”

Five grams of fungus may allow one to look at the other side of the screen for a few hours but it also widens the gap between life and death or the material and the spiritual in practical possibilities. As an initiation ritual it can widen the perspective but as a consecutive practice the spirit shines away and hides deeply from the consumer who shames it for diminishing himself and instead worshipping the fungus or whatever the so called sacred means may be. Nothing but the individual himself through trust in his own self can establish a real bridge between the two worlds and affirm the presence of the divine in each one of his acts. How we understand the water that we drink makes the difference.

Thank you for sharing and allowing me to explore this very tricky question together. It helped me a great deal.

139. ton - May 15, 2008

yesri 91 pg 34 thanks for that excerpt from constant neural disquiet… good link!
121 “If 5 grams of a fungus or some goopy soup from the Amazon can do it surely it is possible.”
I think it’s a completely different thing… it brings into question the whole nature of perception and “reality.”

James 129 ” ‘I am’, is ‘just a wrong idea about something that never existed anyway’.”
The essential question here is whether or not something of the individuality survives the death experience… is there life after this? is there nothing? it seems in order to answer the question we venture into the realm of “belief.” personal verifications might provide insight one way or the other but even when one believes in a “personal verification” is it true “objectively”?

140. elena - May 15, 2008

Ton, what is objectively true for you is what you are willing to die for but many died for the Hitler’s of the world and many more for the Freedom of the World.

141. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 15, 2008

136 is newly moderated.

Is anyone here capable of sending invitations to the Greater Fellowship?

142. xeeena - May 15, 2008

You’ve got one now, sheik!

143. xeeena - May 15, 2008

Sherman Oaks– You can go to Greater Fellowship.ning.com to sign up. You just have to identify yourself and tell them why you want to join, I believe. If that doesn’t work, you can contact me at cmsabin@infostations.net and I’ll send you an invite.

144. ton - May 15, 2008

elena 141 “Ton, what is objectively true for you is what you are willing to die for… many died for the Hitler’s of the world and many more for the Freedom of the World.”

is “objectivity” warped by the differences between what is “true” for you and what is “true” for me?

sherman oaks, good to have your voice here…

145. Michaelj - May 16, 2008

Hello Sheik,
can you add the link to greater fellowship on your intro page :
….
The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship……….

The link is greaterfellowship.ning.com

Everyone can signup, but membership will have to be approved in order to keep out spam.

Thanks much ,

146. brucelevy - May 16, 2008

140. elena

“Ton, what is objectively true for you is what you are willing to die for…”

You realize that’s a subjective definition of objective truth.

147. elena - May 16, 2008

Ton, I do, and yet objectivity as the whole one and only truth is also a concept current in our time to make people believe that they are not objective enough and therefor cannot stand up to what they want to live for or by so it is good to treat it with relativity so that one does not fall in that pattern of always doubting one’s self and others and not daring to trust anything. Had we trusted our selves more fully we would not have spent so much time in the Cult. Thanks for sharing. Have fun!

148. unoanimo - May 16, 2008

Hello Elena, Ton and Bruce ~

One way or another, everyone will die for what is “objectively true” for themselves (consciously & subconsciously, IMO), whether you’re body and mind are willing participants or not: Death doesn’t seem to be the sort of ‘thing’ to knock on anyone’s door, make word-grams with different combinations of the letters making up ‘WELCOME’, leave a message on an answering machine or stand waiting for an elevator’s ‘Ding!’…

IMO, Death is an ‘innocent-spirit’ we all carry in the twin-eclipses making up the pupils of our eyes and it will treat us accordingly in relation to our version of innocence in being finally touched by its conscience-mirrored fingers and joining rite.

Can I have fun without mentioning its opposite while the ritual of enjoyment is still living its dance within me?

Do I have fun to ‘have’ fun or is it a chance for ‘something within’ me to doubt Enjoyment’s pure worth even more so now that it’s outside and vulnerable (in the somethings judgment) and a phenomenon that (that) ‘something within’ knows all too well has an ending and a beginning which it then contrasts with its deep fixation on the body’s cellular decent that’s inevitably (by the default of passing Time) a predictable ‘target’ which it throw its drama-hobby-darts at?

Whose blood am I bleeding daily, really? If it’s felt as someone else’s, then, is that because the feeling originates from my very first desire to ‘let it flow’ in a sort of redemptive meditation or is it again, that ‘something within’ that takes a very willy-nilly sequence of events, unrelated to my heart’s intents and prescribes something ‘Holy’ at it ‘inevitable end’?

It’s easy to say that you climbed Mt. Everest if you’re talking to a bunch of people who have not or that just showed up eight hours after the helicopter dropped you off on top.

Who or what in my life banks on that which is by default going to happen anyway regardless of the reaction to its outcome? Do I talk about what is interesting to me or that which simply (by default) has a vested interest in my spirit due to simple and clean laws of Mother Nature? When I react, is the reaction an ‘Act’ of my inner god or an ‘Act’ of my inner Shakespeare?
_______

L.t.y.a.

149. unoanimo - May 16, 2008

Hello Elena ~

You wrote ~

“Had we trusted our selves more fully we would not have spent so much time in the Cult.”
________________________

Yes and the inescapable irony of this is that (that’s) what the cult may have been for All-In-All… To deliver you to trusting yourself, that little girl climbing a ladder whose total existence revolves round Love that simply needs to climb lattices, trees, whirlpools and tornadoes to touch what they’re all in love with too, YOU.

150. You-me-us-they - May 16, 2008

Greg Has been banned from the Greater FOF…

151. Yesri baba - May 16, 2008

139 ton

121 “If 5 grams of a fungus or some goopy soup from the Amazon can do it surely it is possible.”
I think it’s a completely different thing… it brings into question the whole nature of perception and “reality.

——————————————————
Granted, certain drugs alter the condition of the doors of perception but not the perceiver. One eastern dude said: “We confuse the seer with the instruments of seeing.”

My experience has been that although the perception of ‘reality’ changed ( I might even say distorted but that would assume an a priori undistorted ‘reality’) there was a more fundamental realization in these experiences. There is a different ‘taste’ – a distillation of I Am and perception into I Am That and I have always been that.

Words suck.

My point is that this is true in ordinary, driving to work Monday morning ‘reality’ but we usually have other things on our mind.

“God, who’s center is everywhere, who’s boundary is nowhere”
(or something like that) St. Augustine

152. More history needed? - May 16, 2008

Did any body hear of Robert’s new purchase of a statue /replica of David from Michelangelo? $ 75.000 ?

When announced the students in the meeting room dropped their jaws?

153. James McLemore - May 16, 2008

Hi ton

“Just a wrong idea about something that never existed anyway”

I know nothing of physical death as to what happens or to whom it happens, or what might survive it. If nothing else it should be interesting when we get there. But I will put all my chips on the perception that the guy I am speaking about, when I say he is just a wrong idea about something that never existed anyway, will not be there at the moment of my own death. What I saw that brought about that phrase was a cultural thing, a thing from my parents and other outside influences and its reactions to them. It has no real substance. It is just a reference point or baseline and not a very effective one at that.

Lately I suspect that objective truth may just be the simple amazing fact of our existence. An existence brought into being with loving and humorous intention I suspect.

I think we have to make our own maps as we go. It seems that we can, and in fact have to use all the resources that we come upon or are brought to us, but in the end we have to make it our own somehow. I like the idea that unoanimo just posted that said
“is that (that’s) what the cult may have been for All-In-All… To deliver you to trusting yourself,”

I read somewhere that we are ‘faith’ itself; faith not being something that we have but what we are, and that there is no belief system strong enough to support where we need to go. I think maybe I need to take that “bellyflop or cannonball” that Cakeplease was talking about. I still, too often, find myself wading about in the shallow water, holding on to a plank by the shore; although I do sometimes venture out where my feet can’t touch and tread water.

As always, I appreciate your posts, they cause me to examine things, and I like having to think about what the hell I am saying, and the different contexts it might be taken in.

Yesri – thank you for all you have posted lately and I certainly agree that ‘words suck’

154. Wouldnt You Like To Know - May 16, 2008

How to sign up for the Greater Fellowship website and connect with mostly former members of the Fellowship of Friends, as well as: some current members, family members of former/current members, and others interested in the Fourth Way:
http://greaterfellowship.ning.com/main/authorization/signUp

Greater Fellowship is a social networking website started by former Fellowship of Friends members.

155. veramente - May 16, 2008

“The sequence is movement towards the invisible; the beginning of existence.”
[-R A., Apollo]
——————–
I am still thinking about this quote which seems a denial and a chocking of one’s own life. (this life by the way, not the next imaginary one!)
The invisible seems a good place to go to, a place where one begins to exist. I would ask to this person what kind of existence is he thinking about?

156. brucelevy - May 16, 2008

149. You-me-us-they

What a surprise.

157. somebody - May 16, 2008

Recently I had a few conversations with different people on the subject of “objective truth” It must be some planetary influence.

One thing I realized was that what I call “truth” is something much more simple than the “higher truth” which we can only know in the “higher state”. I think it was Ouspensky who mentioned that instead of studying the “truth” what actually helps is studying the “lies”.

That exactly what is missing in FOF. Current members take Robert’s lies for the higher truth.
It is interesting that Robert appreciates thoughts by the beauty and not by the quality of truth in them: “The most beautiful thoughts on the sequence will come from this meeting” Lovely, is it not? 🙂

158. brucelevy - May 16, 2008

155. somebody

““The most beautiful thoughts on the sequence will come from this meeting” Lovely, is it not? ”

yuck yucky yucky

159. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 16, 2008

145 and 154 are newly moderated.

The link is now added to main page and links.

160. Ollie - May 17, 2008

Dozens of things Robert Burton had to say during the 1980s about the nuclear holocaust he predicted for September 2006 (and the role the Fellowship of Friends would have in building a new civilization after crawling out of the fallout shelter) can be found at

http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/in-their-own-words
(scroll down to the bottom half of the page)

It makes for a sickening read, I guess so much is fair to say.

Don’t say this was then but now is now. Even with all the six and four talk of sequence and wordless breaths Robert Burton hasn’t let go of the idea that Armageddon is just around the corner and that all good students will be saved from destruction, huddled together in a fallout shelter (yes, the winery). Never mind that 2006 has come and gone. Influence C has informed Robert that it’s coming, so he must stick to it, although more privately. It has simply been postponed to 2011, in tune with the Mayan calendar. He has a curious and strange attraction for large disasters (earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, fires, terror attacks, “hydrogen warfare” etc.) and has always liked to suddenly rouse emotions at his events by talking about any such disaster.

I remember, as recently as 15 months ago, after an overcrowded teaching event, he mentioned to a small group of students that it “might have been preparation for when we all live together in a nuclear fallout shelter”.

161. ton - May 17, 2008

thank you all posters.
uno 149 “what the cult may have been for All-In-All… To deliver you to trusting yourself…”
truer words could not be written.
(I would think your “inner god” and “inner shakespeare” are one-and-the-same, no?).

yesri 151 “Granted, certain drugs alter the condition of the doors of perception but not the perceiver.”
I might argue that the perceiver is altered by the experience… but I don’t like to argue.

james 153 “objective truth may just be the simple amazing fact of our existence.”
I was in a discussion this week about the objectivity of the subjective (or “internal”) experience… it does bring into question the human inclination to conceptualize in polarities… “objective and subjective” for example… what’s up with that ?
ya “words suck” as you say, but without them we couldn’t say “words suck.”

go with the flow… love

162. arthur - May 17, 2008

….”when we all together in a nuclear fall out shelter”.

In close body contact? Not me.

163. arthur - May 17, 2008

Jesus, “when we all live together in a nuclear fallout shelter”

OK, but not close body contact with Robert Earl Burton.

Must be the medicine.

164. nigel harris price - May 17, 2008

How about something more creative (162 and 163) – Now that the nuclear ‘weapons’ are on the surface of the planet, we all gather together as nations and start lots of space stations based on nuclear power and work towards the colonisation of Mars, which would reduce the warlike influence (i.e. destructive influence) of that planet. Nutty Nigel strikes again!

165. Yesri baba - May 17, 2008

161 ton

Rather than arguing perhaps you can describe what you mean by perceiver and we can see if we are talking the same language. It seems to me if it can be altered it is still an instrument of perceiving.

166. Yesri baba - May 17, 2008

160 Ollie

Robert Burton is full of shit.

167. James McLemore - May 17, 2008

161. ton

“ya “words suck” as you say, but without them we couldn’t say “words suck.” ”

Thanks for the reminder on that one.

“objective and subjective” for example… what’s up with that ?

Not a clue. I mean really. I could guess that the objective is more of a state or a realization, but everything where I live appears to be, what I guess I will have to call, subjective. (a good example of ‘words suck, but without them we couldn’t say ‘words suck’). There are clues and mysterious people where I live but no hard proof of anything in particular. I have read that we are on a relatively tiny ball somewhere out in space and are whirling around a larger fiery ball, but I am not personally sure about that either. I do feel as if I am being drawn, slowly but surely,to something more simple. The limitations and craziness I enounter all appear to be self-imposed. If I think of God (not counting when I wish He/She would let me win the lottery), I suspect He/She knew there was the possibility of
becoming this lost but gambled anyway. He/She had to let go of control (just like we do) before they could truly create something as free as Themselves. He/She just had to hope They would be able to re-find Themselves. I begin to suspect that we are all there is of the Mystery that we will ever meet, just that spark in ourselves and that sacred spark in each other . That we are a lot more and a lot less than we think we are. There is an old, old song, I think from the thirties or forties, “Ain’t Nobody here but us Chickens.”

Not necessarily related to any of the above, but just thought someone might enjoy this.
My daugher just recently sent me a quote from some character in a book she is reading called Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett.

“God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players (ie. everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won’t tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.”

Love to you also ton.

.

168. X-ray - May 17, 2008

Students,
If every thing is C-influence, then who have said that leaving isn’t?
Do you think the Gods are scared and helpless and cannot stop this evil blog, or may be they so generous in offering you help – a bridge to walk away from madness and escape catastrophe before to late?
Should you be misled by madman who lost his mind and became main obstacle for your spiritual growth, or should you save whatever left of you by leaving?
The choice is yours but nothing is eternal and helping hand may drop at any moment.

169. Yesri baba - May 17, 2008

I was wrong.

Words don’t suck. They just nibble and tease.

170. ludoteka - May 17, 2008

Good morning Venus!

From the BBC News:

It’s a rare planetary phenomenon known as the ‘transit of Venus’, and last happened in 1882, but today the earth’s nearest neighbour will pass in front of the sun.

How common is a transit?

Very rare indeed, only six transits have ever been recorded: in 1631, 1639, 1761, 1769, 1874 and 1882.

The next will be in 2012, but the one after that won’t happen until 2117.

171. ton - May 17, 2008

yesri 165
“…describe what you mean by perceiver and we can see if we are talking the same language. It seems to me if it can be altered it is still an instrument of perceiving.”

as for the language, that’s always an issue in communication… i’m talking ‘merican english, not ‘proper’ british english… maybe that’s part of the issue… :~)

i’ll frame this with my experience so as to not veer too far into abstraction where the nibbling and sucking sound of words drown-out attempts to make sense. i took the ‘acid test’ on the night of my 21st birthday, i’ve told you about it already, you know, when i spent a good portion of the night in the supporting branches of a tree, merging with the tree and through it, with the ‘cosmos’ (for lack of a better word — maurice bucke might call the experience ‘cosmic consciousness’). when i came down, with the rising of the sun, a resolution was formed in me, i drew the same ‘conclusion’ contained in your statement in 121: “If 5 grams of a fungus or some goopy soup from the Amazon can do it surely it is possible.” i saw what was possible through ingestion of a substance and so began to search for a way to realize the possibilities without ‘artificial’ ingredients, ‘on the natch,’ ‘naturally.’

is this where clarification will come in use of the word ‘perceiver’ ? when i ‘came down’ from the ‘artificially induced’ altered state, i returned to ‘baseline’ or ‘normal’ consciousness — that may be what you refer to when you say in 151: “Granted, certain drugs alter the condition of the doors of perception but not the perceiver” (?) ya i returned to ‘baseline’ but my frame of reference had permanently changed, the altered state indicated a direction and i followed the indications based on the experience. in my search for a ‘natural’ means to an end, found the ‘fourth way’ which seemed to describe a ‘way’ to bring about ‘higher states’ without ‘drugs’ — or at least that was what i read into it… i called the number on the bookmark and the rest is, as they say ‘history.’

it’s been some 30-odd years since the acid test and the beginning of my search for a way to live in ‘god consciousness’ (i hate cliche’ — you’re right, words suck)… when you’re young, anything and everything is still possible, or so it seems… now, with the perspective of time, i think certain experiences are not possible without certain allies, as you put it “5 grams of a fungus or some goopy soup from the Amazon…” granted there is endogenous DMT, i know from dreams and hypnogogic states, when ‘ordinary’ consciousness is muted, that brief experience of the hidden realities is a possibility, but an extended and fully conscious experience of the sort i’m talking about comes only with ‘help’ in a certain form… that’s just me and maybe i’m just lazy (?) (what did he mean when he said ‘the sly man swallows his pill’?). anyway, i turn and run the other direction when someone is selling a ‘system’ that promises to ‘get me there.’ not that all ‘systems’ are bad, to each their own… but i think what ‘systems’ sell and what i’m referring to are like comparing apples with planets, two entirely different things — though not unrelated… they’re both round.

all the best

172. vera.mente - May 17, 2008

About spirituality, one day my good friend’s husband also very wealthy generous person over a glass of wine told me: you know, I think all spirituality is bullshit, man made invention. We come here on earth and then we die. That’s it, there is no more after this.
We just have to do the best we can while we are here.

This was a few years back , at that point I thought he was the most spiritual person I knew perhaps because he was in a sort of way very practical, very decent, honest and as I said above generous as well with people who have lesser means, who struggle for a variety of reasons.

The more I think about spirituality the more I feel that I am so conditioned to believe in something else that makes me feel less vulnerable and therefore more in control somehow.

This could be a fear of life, a fear of myself, sometimes realizing I am just “lucky” to be here today, while for example other people in the world are just dying maybe in an instant perhaps not even noticing it, by cyclones, earthquakes, a bomb…use your imagination.

My spiritual journey keeps changing over and over without the gurus now, and when the present comfort in believing something or having a kind of structure fades I do tend to feel a bit lost.

Mind you, I just woke up and having coffee.
I’ll just “say it!”

173. Rear View Mirror - May 17, 2008

I’m beginning to realize that I’ve exhausted everything that I have to say on the blog, with the exception of this one last thing… I have an invitation to people within the FOF (as I’ve never really been talking to anyone but you anyway) …

I invite you to consider the possibility that “life” — as you’ve called it for so many years — is actually a potentially rich, rewarding, and spiritual existence for those who want it, and that true and lasting friendship is available for those who want it, and that a connection to “something higher” is available “out here” for those who want it. And that what you’ve called “work” is very different from what you supposed, but instead may simply be a constant effort to be open to this one idea — that you are in good hands wherever you go.

There’s a lot of cynicism and anger here on the blog — partly because of the insanity described therein.

But there’s a lot of love on the blog, too. You see that, don’t you?

If there ARE heavenly beings who watch over us, do you really believe they would confine their love — even their “tough love” — to such a small section of the earth?

So the invitation is not to follow us, or to follow anyone or anything. The invitation — in part — is for you to follow what you know in your hearts. The invitation is leave the fear of the Fellowship of Friends behind.

Yep, just words, and completely powerless and useless most of the time. But the choice is yours to make — are these words a mere seeking of “validation”? Or are they from the depths of my soul?

And do others on the blog speak from the depths of their souls as well?

Simple choice, in a way. And of course, it’s your decision to make. Listen or not listen. In the meantime, I wish you all the very best.

174. Traveler - May 17, 2008

Thank you Rear View Mirror. Your contributions have been among the most meaningful to me. I find myself at a loss wanting to put words to what I would like to express. Gratitude. Stillness. Joy. For everything. This is what it’s all about, and this is the most powerful teaching all around us and through and through. Nothing is hidden. It’s pain and intensity and love: nothing need be denied. All is available. All is complete.

175. ludoteka - May 17, 2008

Rear View Mirror,

You’ve been too good a companion to let you go easily! I’ll grab your sleeve and your foot and not let you walk out! I might have said what I wish to say repeatedly and tired you out but I am far from having heard all that I would like to hear others say, now, in a month’s time or next year so when I’ve run out of things to say I’ll stop by and look at what others are still wishing to express on the Fellowship, their fellows, their ship or life’s winding way.

Exhausted? may be of throwing up Fellowship dogma and kicking it out of our being but life is so much richer than that cheap thread that as long as there is a place to meet, a public square to reconnect, I will keep visiting it because after all, I never shared in the Fellowship in seventeen years what I’ve understood about the people I lived with in one year on the blog.

There is of course the Greater Fellowship, but the blog is a more direct passage to life on its own terms and on its own terms, life is a great tamer of beings.

Dying subjects, morphing ideas, is an on going process that will continue to happen as long as there are people to share.

I’ve been holding on to this blog for dear life for a year and life is beautiful enough to be able to let it go without worry or fear. All is well and moving on but there is no need for me to let go of the things that helped so dearly. Someone else might come along soon and start screaming like I did. Then they’d need someone to scream back so that they know they are alive even if suffering and not like in the Fellowship: dead, but content.

Lately I’ve found there is great magic in being with people without an objective. Being together does not need justifications. There is no need for common aims or excuses that one is doing something together. Each one is doing what s’he needs to do and at the same time sitting around and knowing the others are there, quietly, not saying or doing anything but sharing their simplest expression. Each one knows the other lived. Lived, suffered, shared and moved on with heirs head still up as s’he walked out.

If you do leave, Rear View Mirror, you’ll remain in my spectrum of gratitude until another page meets us again.

176. ludoteka - May 17, 2008

“heirs head still up as s’he walked out”

doesn’t sound pretty but can’t think of a better one that will embrace his/her or she/he in one word and world.

His/hers: hisers? heris?

she/he: s’he? shehe? heshe? Could one just use “they” most times?

“moved on with their head still up as they walked out”
“moved on with hiser head still up as shehe walked out”
‘moved on with heris head still up as heshe walked out”

“moved on with hiser head still up as heshe walked out”
“moved on with heris head still up as shehe walked out”

I like the female one in that females contain males in their womb but the male one, hiser, heshe, sounds better to me. Any opinions? But please don’t just say “no, keep the old pattern”, which is simply awkward. It is interesting that other languages have one word for such things and we are no longer in a world that can standardize the language to using only the masculine gender always and everywhere. It sucks, not words.

177. zannos - May 17, 2008

Elena: Leave it alone! You have sufficient difficulties with English as to be ill-advised to add any more.

178. More history needed? - May 17, 2008

Day of contemplation
Evaluation
Thinking of the day I met the blog and now
More quietness in my mind as Traveler said, peace.

I thought about forgiveness and someone saying
If you forgive the other, you help heal yourself
Hits home…..

Now, now time to heal, reflect, ponder
Enjoy what is and grateful for this blog with so many aspects.
Thank you all and have a great spring/ summer

179. ludoteka - May 17, 2008

Thank you Zannos, I’ll consider it.

180. Yesri baba - May 17, 2008

171 ton

“i’ll frame this with my experience so as to not veer too far into abstraction where the nibbling and sucking sound of words drown-out attempts to make sense. i took the ‘acid test’ on the night of my 21st birthday, i’ve told you about it already, you know, when i spent a good portion of the night in the supporting branches of a tree, merging with the tree and through it, with the ‘cosmos’.”

—————————————————

Thank you for the explanation. I don’t think I disagree with anything you wrote. I would like to point out , howerver, how you wrote. You wrote that you merged with the branches of the tree and through it the ‘cosmos’. What I am trying to point to is that the branches of the trees and the ‘cosmos’, merged with you. Any experience of any kind no matter how expansive or subtle are ‘objects’ or dreams inside of that which perceives them. The mind is opened to different worlds but who we are remains the same. You were the same before the ‘acid’ (or ‘fungus’, ‘goopy soup’ or whatever) you were the same after. You were the same in the cult. You are the same now. Baseline or inter-galactic it is all happening within you.

I wrote: If 5grams of a fungus or some goopy soup from the amazon can do it surely it is possible.

You were correct in calling bs on that. It was ill conceived and it is probably not possible to have those kinds of experiences without some kind of assistance. But I believe it is possible to know ourselves as being outside of all experience. (Sorry, the nibbling turned into chomping in that last sentence.)

Well, I just crossed the line past which words should not go. Anyways baseline is just fucking peachy.

181. Yesri baba - May 17, 2008

Oh, as for the subjective-objective dilemma- It is just as true that we are inside all experience. Nibble nibble, chomp chomp, SLURRRRRRRP.

182. unoanimo - May 18, 2008

Hello Ton (and Yesri baba) ~

You write ~

“…is this where clarification will come in use of the word ‘perceiver’ ? when i ‘came down’ from the ‘artificially induced’ altered state, i returned to ‘baseline’ or ‘normal’ consciousness…”
_______

Yes: and what if, the incarnation into ‘this life, this identity, this individual and this circumstance’ (is) the ” ‘artificially induced’ altered state” ? What if your ‘altered state’ ability to merge with the tree and visa versa (is) normal on the soul/astral-level…

To me, all this talk about altered states is a bit askew and amiss, particularly when it’s being talked about by the very mind-activity that postpones the state of being ourselves without it so often: ‘altered state’ is a very relative term… I’ve never heard of an astral body needing to drink any goop or take LSD… though I have heard of immortally-developing souls in the altered state of being incarnated in a mortal body needing assistance with its mess-age.

I understand how it is that some still have a ‘tongue in cheek’ concerning change and believing that ‘who we are remains the same’…

Though this is no excuse to slow down the listener of such things; we move on, beyond the splash and the stone that made it… Let’s get into how it is that these two old lovers still cannot resist making allot of noise when brought together, still, after billions of years, by a seven year old child’s heaving of its first smooth river rock…

Ever since I was a child, I liked to believe that I arrived here to grow and thrive and not remain the same; everything ages in some dimension (IMO) and love even ripens when and where we’re least expecting it…

Even if we ‘think’ we’re the same person no matter what happens to us, this complacency will be torn asunder by the persistent presence of fear and habit nudging Conscience to just ‘Be still, this won’t hurt a bit…’ Yet, inertia and ‘the dog chasing its own tail’ does stress the spirit nonetheless;

the mind has all sorts of excuses and logical deductions why not to make efforts concerning those ‘others’ beneath its chin: there’s a whole universe within us that the mind would rather keep veiled in ignorance, abuse, connected and enslaved to its trauma-meditations (IMO):

the mind can ‘point to’ yet, cannot deduce the ideology of Deduction itself so to promote the heart’s yearning satiation for what it ‘truly is’ when it lives and beats throughout the unknown a little bit each day…

So long as the mind keep everything neat and tidy from the chin up, everything is Greaaaaaat! As Tony Tiger used to say (the more sugar you eat on those flakes, the more the stomach feels cheated and wants more)… The stomach is no fool, yet, is without a power-conscience, so, well, you know the rest… Lot’s of sugary lines and quotes, though no nutrition to survive a walk across the Christ-desert.

I’ll never realize the potentials my inhales allude to if I do not exhale into the mouth of the Beloved and too, the Three Witches stirring the pot and sharing one eye…

IMO, separating the issues concerning the soul’s possession of mind, body and spirit will not get us closer to how the create during our Earth-existence that ‘spirit molecule’… It’s naturally occurring in us, perhaps we simply need to learn a bit more about the lifestyle it alludes to when we’re with its quality (?) And then produce ourselves beyond ideological trust, from the now-standpoint that all the virtues point to, something far greater than the signposts and the town they led to…

IMO, the sly man’s pill is the ‘Earth’ we’re REALLY on, the body that our soul possesses. After all, is not the Egg and Spermatozoa a mini-scene of a ‘comet’ plummeting into a sort of ‘planet’ ? And who by golly was the ‘resultant dust’ that covered the Earth and got rid of all the dinosaurs? Was it me or you or both of us at once?

The first ‘Earth’ we step foot onto is our physical embryo (soon to be concave to convex) inside the ‘mother and womb’, then we’re born again and then possibly again, and then for sure again when this body dies…

IMO, being born ‘on Earth’ is a joke of paramount proportion; because until we can step outside these ‘body Earths’ we’ve never walked on this planet, not once… Yet, we can certainly ‘smooth over’ this subconscious fact by walking on each other, yes?

_______________

L.t.y.a.

183. Rear View Mirror - May 18, 2008

Thanks ludoteka and Traveler, and all. 🙂 will enjoy reading more of what you and others have to say.

184. Yesri Baba - May 18, 2008

181 unoanimo

If I created the impression that I thought that ton (or anyone) had not grown as a person through his experiences I apologise. That was not what I intended to communicate.

As for the growth of a ‘soul’ or ‘astral body’ and its transmigration through different lifetimes- I’m clueless.

185. arthur - May 18, 2008

Yesri baba (183),

Clueless? I’ve been reading about things I wish I could experience the way authors describe and I havent yet.

The only thing I know but not totally sure about is I heard the song “Wild Horses” on somebody’s GF page and enjoyed the memories of it.

Everybody seems to be on something or on to something, but I havent a clue.

186. ton - May 18, 2008

“what we have here is failure to communicate”
or at least impediments along the way…

yesri, “You were correct in calling bs on that…”
I was not calling bullshit on anything, it is a plausible and therefore ‘valid’ point of view you expressed and i respect that… i hope expressing my own point of view doesn’t come off as an attack in any way, shape, form. you wrote to uno: “If I created the impression that I thought that ton (or anyone) had not grown as a person through his experiences I apologise. That was not what I intended to communicate.” gee, and i thought he was directing that thought-message toward you… :~)

uno: “Yet, we can certainly ’smooth over’ this subconscious fact by walking on each other, yes?”

i sincerely hope that my posts do not cause anyone here to feel ‘walked-on.’ sincerely. if i pick-up something someone has written and turn it over in order to clarify my own perspective, it is not meant as criticism or attack… which brings up again, some of the difficulty in communicating via this medium… what is the difference between the intended message and interpretation, what is read-into it? and how much of an influencer are the unintended ‘subconscious’ messages that drift around in here? on this level i ‘intuit’ that there are a lot of unresolved familial issues that relate… this is something that came up in the past….

uno: “To me, all this talk about altered states is a bit askew and amiss, particularly when it’s being talked about by the very mind-activity that postpones the state of being ourselves without it so often…”

as you know, there is no danger of dependence on these substances as in addiction, so getting ‘stuck’ in the cycle of use and abuse is not the issue, but as you allude to, there is still the danger of a sort of ‘obedience’ to, or ‘dependence’ on the stream of ‘mind-activity’ that results from an experience of the sort we are speaking of here. i think you would agree that the immediate experience is a proverbial ‘finger pointing the way’ and although it may not be the destination, mind-activity too is ‘a way’ and ‘all this talk’ is in fact all we have in this format / medium. thanks for the reminder that what we ‘speak’ of is ‘not this, not that’ — and so on and on it goes…

rear view 171 as for ‘exhausting everything’ you have to say on the blog… i know the feeling but it hasn’t stopped me… ‘for better or worse.’

love

187. lauralupa - May 18, 2008

On objective truth and the nature of reality…

After leaving the Bubble, it was quite educational for me, when I got interested in Buddhist philosopy (I mostly studied Tibetan Mahayana), to be confronted with its very subtle and refined ideas on the nature of reality.

It was also interesting to discover that, after 2600 years of dedicated theoretical and experiential study, there is no general Buddhist consensus on the nature of truth and “ultimate” reality.
Rather, there are a number of philosophical schools, each bringing forth a slightly different theory (although they all share the basic principle of reality being based on interdependent arising and emptiness). Following is a small sample of the sort of disagreements going on between them:

“The Buddha proclaimed that ‘Mind is devoid of mind, for the nature of mind is clear light’. Within the Madhyamika school are two main views known as Rangtong (intrinsic emptiness) and Zhentong (extrinsic or other emptiness). The Rangtong view focuses on the intrinsic emptiness of self and phenomena (‘mind is devoid of mind’) while Zhentong is an expression of the non-existence of everything (extrinsic or other emptiness) except the changeless, unstained enlightened mind or Buddha-nature (‘nature of mind is clear light’). It thus takes as literal the Buddha’s Third Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.

The Zhentong philosophy challenges the Rangtong idea that the discovery of ultimate truth is the not-finding of anything by the conceptual mind, upholding that this conceptual not-finding is a product or dualistic thought and, therefore, can’t be accepted as ultimate truth since we can’t confirm or deny that it is true. However, perceived from its own side, the ultimate truth is said to exist since it does not deceive the non-dualistic mind that perceives it. Therefore, according to Zhentong, the ultimate nature of reality is empty of everything other than its absolute essential nature.”

This is a good sign that not only words do indeed “nibble and tease”, but that our duality-based mentation is ill equipped to conceptualize the transcendent nature of reality. Or, as explained by Nagarjuna, “Concepts can never be ‘absolute truth’, since on this level every duality falls away. Every knowledge of absolute truth therefore has to be non-conceptual i.e. ‘im-mediate’ (without mediator)”.

Anyway, here a link to some people who are trying to conceptually work it all out…

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/

188. lauralupa - May 18, 2008

hey , where did the little smiley come from?

189. Innernaut - May 18, 2008

184 arhur

As one of your biggest fans, I’m going to tell you straight what I think; do with it what you will. Drugs may give you a glimpse. One of the best ones is legal and available at your dentist: nitrous oxide. William James was fond of it, and like him, I have seen, on more than one occassion, the formation of the universe right down to me sitting in the dentist’s chair. I also saw Christ, with a crown of thorns being lowered onto his head. The blood that ran down his forehead was the deepest red I have ever seen, and had the texture of velvet. I have to have nitrous for cleanings because my teeth are so sensitive, and I often have these visions. But I always walk away troubled, sometimes for days. Because I can’t remember the specifics, just wild images and a basic outline. That’s the problem with drugs: they offer glimpses, but nothing you can keep. It can be argued that the glimpses themselves leave a kind of trace that changes you, and I wouldn’t disagree with that. But in terms of the permanent transformation we are talking about? Not possible.

Same goes with systems, religion, gurus, teachers, “working on yourself” — it doesn’t go anywhere lasting. Any talk of building a soul or astral body is pure speculation with zero evidence to back it up. In 4th way parlance, it’s imagination.

When I was in the FOF and I would hear about some crazy cult or other, I would go, “But we’re different.” I was referring to self-remembering, and I was convinced that that was what made us truly special. It does increase one’s awareness, and if you like that, have at it. But there is nothing else in the entire 4th way canon that is verifiable in any way, IME. The standards of proof were always a little shoddy. The leaps of faith required to see an astral body being formed by self-remembering is just that — faith.

So Arthur, in my humble opinion, the best place that the clues can lead is to a state of true cluelessness — not being stupid, which you clearly are not — but a state in which we can stand to exist in the mystery — the awareness that we don’t know what the hell is going on. If there is a higher state, this is it, in my opinion, and the FOF, the system, the 4th way, whatever, is designed to eliminate these perceptions and replace them with a bunch of phony certainty. Creating false divisions in yourself, making efforts — all these things are difficult, but easy, and comfortable, compared with living in the state of “I don’t know.” Those are three words you will never hear out of Robert Burton, or any other of our 4th way masters.

I remember when we used to talk about “creating memory” by being present. Then much later, I realized that every moment of our lives is already stored in our brains in a level of detail that is beyond comprehension. This is the subject of some scientific studies, though I can’t say which offhand. I have seen it myself, in people with Alzheimer’s, where the memories start to be projected in every detail on the current moment. Laying down that memory didn’t require any kind of effort. It just happens. The other stuff is just blah-blah bullshit.

I do agree with one thing Gurdjieff said: Never try to take away another person’s religion. I have learned that bad things happen when you do. So, if you are a 4th way devotee, please just move along. These are nothing more than the rantings of a sleeping machine, moon-food. Fine.

As was stated earlier in the blog, if you can get out of the FOF with the ability to trust your instincts, and no longer require the services of gurus and systems to provide the comforting certainty of fitting your every experience neatly into one little box or other, then you’re as clued in as it gets. IMO.

190. unoanimo - May 18, 2008

…)

It’s from that and thats it…

The dot, dot and smiley curve above the number zero (…)

191. lauralupa - May 18, 2008

these days I feel so clueless and clued in at the same time…

192. unoanimo - May 18, 2008

Hello Yesri baba and ton ~

The ‘walk over’ was a general reference thingy; sorry that it was leaning at the end like that without any context other than it being able to then be taken personally or implied-like; I can see where that could happen;

though I must admit, though it was not specifically directed to Yesri, that Yesri’s post concerning the idea ~

“Any experience of any kind no matter how expansive or subtle are ‘objects’ or dreams inside of that which perceives them.”

seemed a bit ‘scientific-boots wiping its feet upon the spirit baby’s luminous soul-robe’ in its cool didactic, without perhaps considering other possible means of ‘seeing’ and ‘being’, i.e., the soul-body being regarded within the “any kind” point, which later was changed to “clueless”…

To me, if I am clueless about a certain spectrum of experience, then I have to ask myself ~ ‘Can I say ANY?’ and really mean it? It’s great to have friends though… Please catch me Yesri if I am falling here…

I used ‘walked-on’ as a ‘filler-symbol’ that since I am not always ‘really’ walking on the Earth, I can often subconsciously substitute this possible relationship by metaphorically walking upon my friends and even books I read, both sorta coy-joyfully and in melancholic-ness… An idea…

Ton:

One thing that I am finding interesting these days is to replace my mind with that of another’s, i.e., reading a book that I could not have written, etc. It is very difficult for me to read on a steady basis… I like to write more than read; there’s material (there) for me in this ‘fact’… I can feel it; that there’s a very tricky little greasy thing called ‘vain resignation signing off for vain refueling sakes’…Reading unties its wormy selves so that I can get a better count as to what’s going on in there and whose really on the hook and whose just ‘knot’.
________________

From The (other) Battlefield ~

“Imagine you can only know one thing in the world. And that one thing is that you don’t know anything.”

Staff Sgt. Jason Welsh, From the Iraq war-zone.

________________

L.t.y.a.

193. ludoteka - May 18, 2008

The mind and these words with which we communicate are my daily bread and I do thank you all for feeding me with your being. What is said is important but not nearly as important as the act of sitting together and wondering about each other’s experience. Agreeing or disagreeing is important but not as important as sharing and being willing to follow one’s own search without hurting others for theirs. Really Elena? But you attack the Fellowship everyday! True, and yet I haven’t attacked anyone personally as much as their ideology and practices convinced they are systematically hurting themselves and others. There is a substantial difference. (It gets more personal on the blog when we rub into each other’s ego.)

Regular society runs parallel to the Fellowship: physical slavery is no longer permitted with its full implications but men are equally enslaved to imaginary possessions that they do not have the consciousness to share. They live in the loneliness of their possessions and employ their life trying to protect their greed from other people’s needs. Their greatest possession is time and they don’t have time to live. Robert and cults in general, take hold of spiritual consciousness as if it were something you needed to pay for, one way or another, and regular society takes hold of the earth and its products as goods that it can privatize; The individual becomes king and the community together with consciousness, agonizes everywhere. Living is practical.

Millions of dollars are paid to the guy that beats everyone else at no matter what game or business and thousands of people watch in idolatry what they wish to become: the hero that is loved, worshipped and paid amounts of money that would be enough for the whole of their lifetimes which many spend a lifetime wasting without a frame to hold their development.

Most people are afraid of changing anything about themselves or the world around them because “it has always been like that and who am I or you to change it?” convinced that the short lives of their parents and theirs are “always”. The perception of time changes with the perception of the human within, just as the perception of space changes with the penetration of dimensions. The practice of memory or self-remembering, connects the individual to the human within, displacing the subjective ego for the objective I; The law of accident for the law of fate.

Individuality is the flower in a tree but when the flower remembers itself it remembers the branch that holds him, the branch that holds many smaller branches and the trunk that holds the branches. When it remembers itself more deeply, it remembers its roots, the earth, the Sun and the Galaxy. When it no longer remembers but is, it is the Universe.

Relativity in the fourth way is concerned with placing phenomena within the hierarchy of being. There is only one hierarchy and it is of being. All phenomena are connected to it. The greater the being, the greater the capacity of the individual or entity to love, share and connect regardless of the form that takes, whether in the process of destruction or healing. In these terms, the capacity of an individual to connect to other human beings can be looked at with relativity compared to the capacity Water, Air, Fire or Earth have to connect to all beings. What Nature does by the grace of its being, an individual human being has to accomplish by overcoming the dilemma of its time.

At point zero the ego and real I meet and separate. All men today have different proportions of both ego and real I. No one is just ego but there are more people with the essential spirit functioning within them than hopelessly lost people to the ego. No one is hopelessly lost to the Universal Spirit or what in the System would be called, world One. Phenomena are phenomena and people’s dramas are, like their lives, inserted in a scenario that is just a small portion of the Theater, the City, the Nation and the Earth where it belongs.

The Universal dialogue from the individual to the absolute is life. Each human being carries within its self, the Universal drama. Each life is the blood of the Universe and like blood, it is always in motion. Change is the natural state while fixed forms are stagnant and decaying. The more rigid the form, the less progress is made and the subject or institution enters a process of involution. Phenomena are always changing as a response to other phenomena; it is the laws behind the phenomena that don’t change. They hold phenomena in place so that they can evolve or revolve. The being within the phenomena, establishes the direction and often we take one step back and two steps forward.

To perceive or remember one’s self is not the same as thinking about one’s biography. To think is not to be. And yet, the mind is to the self no less than the flower is to the tree. We will dispose of the mind when we die but disposing of it while we live, in the fourth way, is like taking a wheel out of the car and still pretend it to get to Rome. Many do, and have to carry and push the car all the way, forgetting the car is not what needs to get to Rome but them. It is a perfect picture of the Fellowship of Friend’s Cult phenomena.

The path of the fakir, yogi or monk may use the mind very differently to the Fourth Way. In the Fourth Way, which is the only one I’ve treaded, the mind has the capacity to understand the phenomena of our lives and the world around us as the expression of equally spiritual forces. It is not the mind or mindlessness. Between black and white is the range of colors. It is not simple: simplicity is in the being that holds and beholds the rainbow. It is not as complex a world as a rich world full of possibilities for each individual and the human being as a whole. Life is, was and will always be beautiful no matter how many dilemmas we need to solve.

194. Yesri Baba - May 18, 2008

“What we have here is a failure to communicate”

Amen to that.

From my side this whole thread was started from me trying to point in a different direction of thought than the one generally held in the fof of creating something eternal out of weak, limited lumps of clever lying stuff.

Heaven knows how many erroneous assumptions I am operating under. I ran out of stuff to say a ways back so I just make shit up.

My experience with ‘those drugs’ aligns with the essence of Laura lupa’s post 186 on Buddism.

I have to agree with you though, Uno. Writing: “Any exprience of any kind no matter how expansive or subtle are ‘objects’ or dreams inside of that which perceives them” sure takes all the soul out of it.

ton-

I sensed an aura of ‘attack’ in our back and forth almost to the point of e-mailing you privately. I actually felt kind of stupid sometimes knowing full well you knew what I was trying to say better than the way I was saying it.

Uno- I enjoy your writing. You have quite a gift-skill. For me , reading your posts is like going fishing in my brain.

Lauralupa- Thank you for the buddism post and link.

Clueless and clued in- I hear you sister.

195. unoanimo - May 18, 2008

There was once a man in search of the Dreadlock Guru: he traveled for many months across vast, worn out spaces of desert and war torn wastelands… Further on he met with great mountainous areas whose inhabitants bore him no peace day and night with their drumming, singing and smoke signals…

On and on he tread till finally he pick axed to the top of the Then World’s highest peak and found there a little sage and cedar hut wherein the Dreadlock Guru sat, his nappy headed entanglements held heavenward by some unseen force and each nap hummed and waved in the air like something between an old tourist cobra and a siren riding a Santa Ana breeze.

Luckily, through the arduous juxtapositions that his nine month journey had taken, he had learned how to disassociate himself from such mesmerizing, affirmative visualizations and remembered at once the question he had to ask the Dreadlock Guru:

He said ~ ‘Oh holy Dreadlock Guru, I have traveled long and suffered much to gain understanding with a most basic, though profound affliction amongst the people of this tea drinking world of mine… When we drink, all around the world there’s a collective burning sensation experienced in the left eye of every partaker of this herb… Please oh holy Dreadlock Guru, advise Thee We…’

And suddenly, with great cosmic accurateness and an acute disposition towards being acutely dispositional, the Dreadlock Guru uttered the three words that has most recently caused scientists on the planet Earth to subconsciously gather enough rubber nail-steam to hammer home the disclaiming of Pluto as a planet, the words were ~

“Remove the spoon”.
____________________

Namaste

196. lauralupa - May 18, 2008

“A rock painting from Lascaux depicting a rhinoceros hunt represents a sequence intoned in imagination. The six stools coming from the rhinoceros represent “mental defilement.” The Egyptian Texts say, “What I detest the most is excretion, and I will not eat it.” Rodney Collin said, “Imagination is a waste product of the human mind.”

“The sequence is freedom of thought, and the four wordless breaths are freedom from thought.” [Robert Earl Burton]
Very few people wish freedom from thought.”

One of the things I have really learned to appreciate after debubbling, is people who like to think. Does Robert Burton in his corrupt preaching ever praise the value of intelligence, curiosity and knowledge (fake esoteric branded “knowledge” excluded)? Or does he go to great lenghts to muddle the issues by purposefully equating thought and imagination, thus creating a negative aura around the whole concept of freely and independently using one’s mind?

The sleep of reason produces monsters, as Goya advised…

The following link is for those interested in physics. I love the idea of Robert and this guy drinking high tea in the Galleria’s patio. What would they speak about?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Hgaa6wlNs

197. lauralupa - May 18, 2008

YES uno, the tea, the tea!

I synchronistically raise my cup to yours, and toast
to all the brothers of the tea drinkers universal love sisterhood

Namaste

“The method must be purest meat
and no symbolic dressing,
actual visions & actual prisons
as seen then and now.

Prisons and visions presented
with rare descriptions
corresponding exactly to those
of Alcatraz and Rose.

A naked lunch is natural to us,
we eat reality sandwiches.
But allegories are so much lettuce.
Don’t hide the madness!”

Allen Ginsberg

198. ton - May 18, 2008

yesri 192 or thereabouts: “ton- I sensed an aura of ‘attack’ in our back and forth almost to the point of e-mailing you privately. I actually felt kind of stupid sometimes knowing full well you knew what I was trying to say better than the way I was saying it.”

I hope that my 185 post clears that up… there was no intent to attack, should i apologize? i don’t know what you are trying to say until you say it and even then it is only my interpretation, which may have little to do with what you were trying to say. you know you can e-mail me anytime for any reason.

laura thanks for the buddhist perspective, the spacemotion link, and the science lesson courtesy of the youtube… good stuff there! have you seen this?

http://www.arthuryoung.com/

i was fortunate enough to attend some of the ‘salons’ arthur held at his house in berkeley before his passing…. another remarkable mind! check out his ‘REFLEXIVE UNIVERSE” and also related links at jeffery mishlove and “THINKING ALLOWED.”

thank you elena for 191 — is it “i think therefore i am” or is it
“i am therefore i think” ? or is the i and thinking all illusion?

uno, you addressed part of 190 to me and i must say i’m puzzled over the invective: “a very tricky little greasy thing called ‘vain resignation…” and “wormy selves” ? (i think you are great, whoever you are ‘uno’). wait… something granny used to say floats to mind: “yer probably not as good, or as bad as you think….” (or are ya? maybe you are exactly and only what you think u r…?).
as for your reference to “The (other) Battlefield ~” this is no battlefield, it is a playground.

peace

199. lauralupa - May 18, 2008

one last thing, couldn’t help it… I’m in a huge Joanna Newsom wave!

Emily

The meadowlark and the chim-choo-ree and the sparrow
Set to the sky in a flying spree, for the sport over the pharaoh
A little while later the Pharisees dragged comb through the meadow
Do you remember what they called up to you and me, in our window?

There is a rusty light on the pines tonight
Sun pouring wine, lord, or marrow
Down into the bones of the birches
And the spires of the churches
Jutting out from the shadows
The yoke, and the axe, and the old smokestacks and the bale and the barrow
And everything sloped like it was dragged from a rope
In the mouth of the south below

We’ve seen those mountains kneeling, felten and grey
We thought our very hearts would up and melt away
From that snow in the night time
Just going
And going
And the stirring of wind chimes
In the morning
In the morning
Helps me find my way back in
From the place where I have been

And, Emily – I saw you last night by the river
I dreamed you were skipping little stones across the surface of the water
Frowning at the angle where they were lost, and slipped under forever,
In a mud-cloud, mica-spangled, like the sky’d been breathing on a mirror

Anyhow – I sat by your side, by the water
You taught me the names of the stars overhead that I wrote down in my ledger
Though all I knew of the rote universe were those pleiades loosed in december
I promised you I‘d set them to verse so I’d always remember

That the meteorite is a source of the light
And the meteor’s just what we see
And the meteoroid is a stone that’s devoid of the fire that propelled it to thee

And the meteorite’s just what causes the light
And the meteor’s how it’s perceived
And the meteoroid’s a bone thrown from the void that lies quiet in offering to thee

You came and lay a cold compress upon the mess I’m in
Threw the window wide and cried; Amen! Amen! Amen!
The whole world – stopped – to hear you hollering
You looked down and saw now what was happening

The lines are fadin’ in my kingdom
Though I have never known the way to border ’em in
So the muddy mouths of baboons and sows and the grouse and the horse and the hen
Grope at the gate of the looming lake that was once a tidy pen
And the mail is late and the great estates are not lit from within
The talk in town’s becoming downright sickening

In due time we will see the far butte lit by a flare
I’ve seen your bravery, and I will follow you there
And row through the night time
Gone healthy
Gone healthy all of a sudden
In search of the midwife
Who could help me
Who could help me
Help me find my way back in
There are worries where I’ve been

Say, say, say in the lee of the bay; don’t be bothered
Leave your troubles here where the tugboats shear the water from the water
Flanked by furrows, curling back, like a match held up to a newspaper
Emily, they’ll follow your lead by the letter
And I make this claim, and I’m not ashamed to say I know you better
What they’ve seen is just a beam of your sun that banishes winter

Let us go! Though we know it’s a hopeless endeavor
The ties that bind, they are barbed and spined and hold us close forever
Though there is nothing would help me come to grips with a sky that is gaping and yawning
There is a song I woke with on my lips as you sailed your great ship towards the morning

Come on home, the poppies are all grown knee-deep by now
Blossoms all have fallen, and the pollen ruins the plow
Peonies nod in the breeze and while they wetly bow, with
Hydrocephalitic listlessness ants mop up-a their brow

And everything with wings is restless, aimless, drunk and dour
The butterflies and birds collide at hot, ungodly hours
And my clay-colored motherlessness rangily reclines
Come on home, now! All my bones are dolorous with vines

Pa pointed out to me, for the hundredth time tonight
The way the ladle leads to a dirt-red bullet of light
Squint skyward and listen –
Loving him, we move within his borders:
Just asterisms in the stars’ set order

We could stand for a century
Starin’
With our heads cocked
In the broad daylight at this thing
Joy
Landlocked
In bodies that don’t keep
Dumbstruck with the sweetness of being
Till we don’t be
Told; take this
Eat this

Told, the meteorite is the source of the light
And the meteor’s just what we see
And the meteoroid is a stone that’s devoid of the fire that propelled it to thee

And the meteorite’s just what causes the light
And the meteor’s how it’s perceived
And the meteoroid’s a bone thrown from the void that lies quiet in offering to thee

http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safari&rls=it-it&q=joanna newsom emily&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv

200. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 18, 2008

172 and 189 are newly moderated.

201. Yesri Baba - May 18, 2008

198 ton

It may have little to do with what I say but from what you say I’d say not.
No need to apologise.

Oh, and by the way, from your previous post- ha ha very funny ;(

202. sharon - May 18, 2008

innernaut 189
Thank you for a great post. It beautifully articulates my own current philosophy (that’s why I think it’s great, of course).

And what a relief it is to stop pretending that I believe that one can “create a soul” ! Or even that I know anything about it at all.

Presence can give one a fuller life, if it’s not twisted into its opposite. That’s all. IMO, the “sequence” is the opposite of presence, as it focusses so much on “Me doing the sequence”, rather than on the world around you.

203. ton - May 18, 2008

yesri 201
huh?

204. ludoteka - May 18, 2008

Ton, I don’t know what it is for you but for me it is a lot of fun!

Time to get out and about!

Elena

205. arthur - May 18, 2008

Innernaut (189),

When I first came began reading the Fourth Way material I was overwhelmed. I became a zealot grabbing people by the lapel forcing them to listen.

Overtime I realized that intellectualizing wasn’t my cup of tea, so my hope of learning the concepts would be through osmosis.
As in, read and maybe some of it will pass through and stick.

Although I can’t see throwing the books out, I am no longer a zealot and read very little.

For the past two years and especially since finding the blog and what it meant for me, I have noticed that I say, “I don’t know” most of the time.

Sometimes, I think it was going to Intensive Care that took something away. Sometimes, I think it’s old age. Whatever it is or was, I spend most of my time just looking and taking care of the day as best I can.

206. arthur - May 18, 2008

Innernaut:

P.S. I heard you and thanks very much.

207. brucelevy - May 19, 2008

I just spent a fulfilling 3/4 of an hour going through the rave reviews of RB’s book (cough) on Amazon. There was another commenter named Poogie. Ok which one of you is Poogie.

As I was saying, both Poogie and I left comments which identified the “thrilled reader and reviewers” as present members. We also revealed…well, you know. When someone in a review dismissed Poogie as negative I advised readers to simply google “Robert Burton” lawsuits so they could read the court transcripts themselves. I’ve never seen such blatant “logrolling”. It’s even worse than the political Right.

208. Yesri Baba - May 19, 2008

Thanks ton for the Arthur Young link. Never heard of him before. Man, he had a big brain.

This is one little excerpt from one essay – Fear of the Unknown. Strangely, it was about ufo’s.

It is not possible to “know” that which is beyond ourselves. It is not that what is beyond is infinite, but since it won’t fit in the definitions and concepts on which our knowledge is based, it has the nature of infinity, that is, unbounded-ness. Fear is the most natura1 reaction to what is beyond us, but in the heart of this fear there is a kind of higher courage. I do not know how to attain this, but this is what the spiritual quest is about. The Upanishads have to say of the beginning of things:
In the beginning was the Self alone in the shape of a person. He looking round saw nothing but his Self. He feared and therefore anyone who is lonely feared. He thought, “As there is nothing but myself why should I fear?” Thence his fear passed away. For what should he have feared? Verily fear arises from a second only.

©1996 Anodos Foundation

209. nigel harris price - May 19, 2008

Dear Innernaut (189)
Things ‘when I was in the FOF’ were certain – NOT STATES, I may add. Now the world outside the Cult is uncertain, the Experience of Being is coupled with ‘Little Doings’.

“I am an ordinary angel, winning tiny victories;
As the ordinary angel strives, his wings weigh heavily.”

from ‘Hue and Cry’ “Remote” (album).

210. veramente - May 19, 2008

207 brucelevy
————
bravo bruce! I read what you and Poogie wrote on the “Self Remembering” book, at first I thought RB published a new one.
Glad he did not! We need no more of the bullshit.
—-
On another subject: as far as the blog is going with its ups and downs, the repetitions, the dumping of memories, whatever..for me coming to this blog is like participating in a very long drumming session, a prayer-wish for something insane to end. Let us keep it up!

211. ludoteka - May 19, 2008

Ton 198

“or is the i and thinking all illusion?”

Hi Ton, I must’ve been tired yesterday for I perceived your question lightly and wish to apologise.

This idea of life being an illusion is worth looking at. How has it been for you and others? I don’t remember if the idea itself is presented in the fourth way as such and think it comes from other eastern Ways but it could definitely fit into the fourth way in the ideas of one, identification; two, imaginary picture and three; imagination about the life one is living. I don’t think either one of them is refering to discarding everything we experience on Earth because it is simply an illusion or imagination. That is the problem when ideas get disconnected from the system they belong to and picked up randomly to fit into the idea that life is not worth living because it is simply an illusion so common in our times and used extensively by Cults to keep disconnecting people from their actual lives and placing them in a limbo of fear and disregard towards themselves.

In my experiences of third and fourth states which I have in fact had, no matter how terrifying it is to recognise it even now after seventeen years of not being able to talk about them because only Robert was supposed to experience such states, it would be easy to say that what I experience in the second state is an illusion in relation to what I experience in the third state. But the idea of illusion as I had traditionally understood it would not be correct. The illusion is in the identification. If we look at it in an example, it might be easier to explain. Falling in love is a great illusion, one that has determined and continues to determine seventy to ninety percent of my life. What I’ve noticed is that when I was very young I would fall in love and think nothing could be greater than that and direct all my energy towards the person in question until she or he were dead sick of me. Over time I noticed: 1. That I would love only that person and the rest of the world could go to hell and I overrun it as often as I could to make priviledges for the “loved” one. 2. That “my love” had very little to do with the other person who barely understood where the hell I was! (No wonder, I looked for a mother for about forty years and still find her to my great surprise! 3. That the identification of “love” is probably the silver thread of karma and one goes through all the experiences one needs to go through because one actually sets one’s own self up to do so. I guess this is also where the idea of subjective-objective comes along. The fact that for me those identifications were perfectly real and have had both beautiful and horrendous consequences throughout my life does not mean that love was at its highest objective expression. The System solves this beautifully by stating that there is a love, a religion, a morality and so on of a man number two, three, four, etc. No matter how much the Fellowship misused these ideas they remain of great value to me. It solves it nicely because rather than discarding the love of a man number one as not love, it brings in relativity about love itself.

It is a fact that I have lived under my identification or the illusion of my own karma. My blind love for Robert was no different. I thought that if I worked in all three lines both I and the world around me would become better but it just made me Robert’s money making puppet and brothel supporter. What an illusion!.

What is interesting is that at every step of the way the by products of our actions reap their gain and we learn the lesson. From those illusions, we come to these realities. In higher states (which I am convinced we all experience a lot more than we know how to recognise) what becomes clear is the nature of the illusion. One sees one’s limitations in their full expression and they are placed clearly in contrast with the whole. One’s tiny identified love placed in relation to the Whole, or the Universe, or Love, or Consciousness, makes the picture quite clear! At every step of the way I have come to crossroads in which I see the limitations of my identifications and at every crossroad I have also met with the picture of life without my subjective boundaries. They are what I try to expose here no matter how many limitations I continue to carry. Our limitations are as necessary as stairs are for a child learning to walk, or stones we eventually learn to jump over. Our limitations are not tragedies and we are here because we’ve already jumped over so many of them.

Life, in the fourth way, is the plane of existence where we can actualize our understandings or consciousness. What we do is what we are and the dialogue between “doing” and “being” returns its beauty or horror to our inner world. We know too much to buffer it. There is no shortcut to being without having lived which is what the Fellowship of Friend’s Cult does by inventing a way of life “a la Rober” and stealing people’s actual lives away from them. How many artists ruined their careers because they settled for Robert’s little cult-club instead of trusting themselves out in the world? We each did that in our particular illusion and suffered deeply for it not only with out careers but our families and society but accepting responsibility for it does not mean that Robert and the Fellowship will not have to pay for the horrors they structured. We all pay, that is karma and after we’ve payed, good, lets move on.

Elena

212. nigel harris price - May 19, 2008

Robert’s Credit Card (Elena, 211) is actually the King of Clubs – he is indulging the ‘machine’ or ‘lower-self’, not controlling it. Don’t worry – he is closer to pay-up time than you or he think…..Nigel.

213. 'I see' said the blind man - May 19, 2008

re: brucelevy 207

News of Alexander Horne’s death given on at a margarita dinner on 9th February, 2 days after the news appeared on the blog on 7th February.

It is interesting, is it not my dears, that 2 days earlier, on 5th February 2008 someone bearing the name Robert Burton published a book titled “ On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You’re Not”.

This book appears on the same Amazon page as our teacher’s book “Self Remembering”.
The order of books is as follows:

“On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You’re Not”.
“Anatomy of Melancholy Part 1”
“The Essential Anatomy of Melancholy”
“Self Remembering”
“The Anatomy of Melancholy”
“Gathering Storm”

Exactly 7 items down the page from “Self Remembering” you will see that there is a T-shirt available with the logo on the front – “ROBERT BURTON LOVES ME”. However, before you get out your credit cards this it reads ‘Currently Unavailable’ next to the item.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=robert+burton&x=16&y=20

It is miraculous, is it not, how influence ‘C’ communicate with those who have ears to hear?

For those who want to remind themselves of the Alex Horne meeting excerpts from Ollie(149) and Lauralupa’s (169) great response, it is on the blog 30/2

http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2008/02/17/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-30-2/

214. nigel harris price - May 19, 2008

Elena 211 – About Illusion – I wrote a poem about it; will try to paste.

A certain interpretive difference
Awaits the twice-born.
Whitman’s heaven and hell
Give way to the first’s glory.

Litter picking/placing and decoding
Delights self and humanity.
From former form absorbed,transposed
And Earth’s imperfection more than satisfies.

Nothing goes away;
Neither poverty, hardship nor necessity.
All hangs ,deliberately placed
By angels beyond the screen.

The sun’s crime overcome,
He returns from sweeping the universe
To its limit in crashing waves,
That tell of the new Eternity.

(nhp – 2001)

It pasted O.K. – now ‘Back to Bedlam’ with James Blunt.

215. nigel harris price - May 19, 2008

Dear All
I first sent this to Ames Gilbert, as my first posting on the blog. Now I feel it warrants repeating to all present bloggers:-

“To a Friend whose Work has come to Nothing” by W B Yeats

‘Now all the truth is out,
Be secret and take defeat
From any brazen throat,
For how can you compete,
Being honour bred, with one
Who, were it proved he lies,
Were neither shamed in his own
Nor in his neighbours’ eyes?
Bred to a harder thing
Than Triumph, turn away
And like a laughing string
Whereon mad fingers play
Amid a place of stone,
Be secret and exult,
Because of all things known
That is most difficult’.

Love and continuance to you all…..Nigel.

216. lauralupa - May 19, 2008

ton, thank you for the link, very interesting man and ideas.
Today I found a link on a Reality Sandwich page to this other interesting blog, with its quite pessimistic and IMO insightful interpretations of current events and political/philosophical concerns. Also, being the synchronicity junkie that I am, I enjoyed the author’s use in some of his posts of the “bubble” metaphor, and his quoting of Pogo’s “we have seen the enemy and he is us”…

“when one goes to fight monsters, one must take care not to become the monster oneself.”

http://www.darkage.ca/blog/_archives/2008/4/28/3664622.html

217. lauralupa - May 19, 2008

Also, could someone please dismiss or confirm the David repica rumor? I might be projecting here, but it seems to me an ominous sign that the “Leader” is at work upping the antes, seeking to reestablish his sense of control over the dwindling flock by imposing ever more increasingly bizarre and costly caprices upon them.

It would be very auspicable if someone with a little weight in the organization had enough sense and courage to point out to him the inevitably disastrous results of following such a course of action and steer him away from it, unfortunately I have reason to doubt that such a person exists. What do you think?

218. nigel harris price - May 19, 2008

To All – A big chunk from Ruskin: ‘Frondes Agrestes’ –

‘So far as education does indeed tend to make the senses delicate, and the perception accurate, and thus enables people to be pleased with quiet instead of gaudy colour, and with graceful instead of coarse from; and by long acquaintance with the best things, to discern quickly what is fine from what is common – so far acquired taste is an honourable faculty, and it is true praise of anything to say, it is “in good taste.” But, so far as this higher education has a tendency to narrow the sympathies and harden the heart, diminishing the interest of all beautiful things by familiarity, until what is best can hardly please, and what is brightest hardly entertain, -so far as it fosters pride, and leads men to found the pleasure they take in anything, not on the worthiness of the thing, but on the degree in which it indicates some greatness of their own (as people build marble porticoes, and inlaid marble floors, not because they like the colours of marble, or find it pleasant to the foot, as becasue such porches and floors are costly, and separated in all human eyes from plain entrances of stone and timber); – so far as it leads people to prefer gracefulness of dress, manner and aspect, to value of substance and heart, liking a well-said thing better than a true thing, and a well-trained manner better than a sincere one, and a delicately-formed face better than a good-natured one, – and in all other ways and things setting custom and semblance above everlasting truth;- so far, finally, as it induces a sense of inherent distinction between class and class, and causes everything more or less to be despised which has no social rank, so that the affection, pleasure, or grief of a clown are looked upon as of no interest compared with the affection and grief of a well-bred man;- just so far, in all these several ways, the feeling induced by what is called “a liberal education” is utterly adverse to the understanding of noble art.’

(Anyone got a ‘direct-line’ to REB for this one?…..Nigel.).

219. lauralupa - May 19, 2008

wow, thanks nigel, great quote!

220. Opus111 - May 19, 2008

Laura #216:

I have not heard any confirmation of the David replica rumor. It would not surprise me, if true. There is a homoerotic quality to the piece and spending 75k of his followers would complete the self-gratifying endeavor. Early on, RB had “artistic” advisors (S. Wa…ce for decoration and M. Gr..si for visual arts, to mention 2). Now, RB makes pretty much all the calls, and in so doing often reveals the gaudiness, if not utter vulgarity of his taste, again at the expense of the faithful.

One thing seems obvious. RB has not changed his behavior and does not seem intent to do so. In some strange way, his steadfastness alone may have contributed to keeping a large portion of the flock faithful, plus the usual supernatural reinforcements to ongoing membership. The membership has dwindled, in sheer numbers probably more than ever in its history, but enough remains to pay for the travels, show and other frivolities (including replicas like this alleged one), while the necessities are sacrificed (fewer salary positions for the necessary property maintenance for example).

221. Wikifof - May 19, 2008

Comments, complaints, suggestions – add them here:

http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/visitor-center

222. Just Another Voice Out Here - May 19, 2008

A ‘village’ of child sexual abuse
By Ellen Goodman | May 16, 2008

DURING the Vietnam War there was a phrase that came to symbolize the entire misbegotten adventure: “It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.” It was said at first with sincerity, then repeated with irony, and finally with despair.

I have heard similar thoughts in the weeks since Texas authorities invaded a ranch in Eldorado and rounded up hundreds of children from the polygamous sect of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Did they traumatize the children in order to protect them? Did they shatter their lives to rescue them?

The invasion came after a tip from a 16-year-old who called herself a victim of sexual abuse. The tip may turn out to be a hoax, but the practices of the sect are well-known.

In the world of the the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, “spiritual marriage” between older men and underage girls – what the law defines as rape – is given the stamp of religious approval. Of 53 girls believed to be between 14 and 17, more than 30 have children or are pregnant, including one who gave birth to her second child in custody. Among the boys, too, there is suspicion of widespread physical abuse.

Nevertheless the story of children taken from parents, of families wrenched apart, has produced enormous concern and worry in the past weeks. Is this a rescue operation or a state-sponsored attack on parents? Should the state enforce a set of values or tolerate “alternative lifestyles” and religions?

These questions themselves say something about our own cultural moment. Who, after all, doesn’t do a double take when hearing that these “endangered children” were never exposed to the Internet or television or processed food? The children’s requests for a bread-making machine and prayer time have led to some ironic comments about exactly which culture is protecting children.

More to the point is the concern about separating children from parents. Every agency balances the risks of leaving children in a dangerous setting and the trauma of removing them. But cases are generally weighed one at a time. What’s different about the FLDS case is that it was a wholesale roundup of all the children of a whole community.

This makes many, like Jane Spinak, a Columbia Law professor who has represented children in foster care, uneasy. “We may not like their lifestyle,” she says. “We may not condone the practice of multiple women living together with a man, but it’s not for the court to decide lifestyles.” Spinak remembers when children were removed from biracial families, let alone gay families. “Lots of people live lives we don’t think are good for their children, but we don’t take the children away.”

Nevertheless, what do we make of an entire sect that has sexual abuse at its very heart? That believes plural “marriages” between older men and underage women are not an aberration but a pathway to heaven?

Nobody can prosecute the FLDS for what they believe, says Marci Hamilton, author of “God vs. the Gavel.” “They can stay together and believe what they want into eternity. What they can’t do is illegal action.” She compares their community to a crack house. “If you go into a drug den in a burnt-out rowhouse and all the adults are drug addicts, how can you leave the children there?” Hamilton calls this sect a “conspiracy of adults to commit systematic child sex abuse.”

I understand the ambivalence toward this dramatic story. The uprooting of distraught children from pained parents strikes a primal core. And we are aware that many state foster care systems are flawed enough to amount to a second kind of abuse. But surely the call to understand this sect as just another unique corner of multicultural America is relativism run amok.

Individual hearings will begin next week. I hope that the children and mothers will tell the truth rather than follow the admonition to “keep sweet.” I hope mothers will choose their children over obedience to their patriarchs.

But in the end, what we have on that ranch in Eldorado is not a lifestyle. It’s a pedophile ring. If we cannot rescue children from that, we’ve already destroyed their village.

223. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - May 20, 2008

219: Just Another Voice Out Here: Another moral dilemna the world seems to be dealing with these days trying to figure out what’s right or wrong. Like Burma and China. Too synchronistic I think to be some sort of cosmic accident that both these painful dramas are going on concurrently. .

224. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 20, 2008

213, 220 and 221 are newly moderated.

225. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

As to blog 213, we part-Solar types are bringing out a T-shirt of our own with “Existence is just one long mid-life crisis” on it…..Nigel.

226. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

Elena
I went back to late-February blogs to look something up and found yours about ‘community’. I am sure that I did not join the FOF for this – I definitely wanted ‘states’. Although now, with dopamine floods at regular intervals, I become perturbed by ‘sensory anomalies’ – serendipity/synchronicity are alright, but when people start talking in funny accents and I misinterpret what they say, how do I operate in ‘normal life’? As for your comments about ‘loss causing one to attempt suicide’, that was true for my exit from the FOF, but now I see it as having been ‘STOP’ on a huge scale in my life. However, I feel that C-Influence carries on with the same pressures – money problems, deadlines etc. – that I also experienced in the FOF. Robert leads a ‘cushey life’ and has a ‘la-dee-dah’ attitude to interpreting what he believes is C-Influence communicating with him.

“These are the thoughts of all men in all ages and lands, they are not original with me,
If they are not yours as much as mine they are nothing or next to nothing, ……………….
……………..This is the grass that grows wherever the land is and the water is,
This is the common air that bathes the globe”.

Walt Whitman – from ‘Leaves of Grass’.

Keep posting, dear one!…..Nigel.

227. unoanimo - May 20, 2008

Deleted on request of the author. — ES

228. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

Unoanimo 227
You’re right – it’s silly and unimpelling to right thought or action…..Nigel.

229. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

I was just thinking – how it is possible for language (maybe INCLUDING how we write on the blog-site) has just as much chance of hiding the truth as it has of ellucidating it. Witness how Whitman would lead us out on to the Promontory of Experience with his poetry. I am in writing-mood this full-moon, with a break in my jewellery/silverwork teaching for the week. I will try to be helpful to all you fellow-bloggers (and especially you, Elena)…..Nigel.

230. Across the River - May 20, 2008

218 nigel harris price

Thanks for that ‘big chunk’, so well stated and amazingly spot on. I seriously doubt REB would be moved by this but maybe it will catch the attention of someone who’s trying to figure out “what’s wrong”. (Nice posts 214 and 214, too.)

222 Just Another Voice

I remain confused about how much tolerance is appropriate in leaving people free to practice the life that they believe brings them purpose. I know “free” can be the point in question and of course enslaving children cannot be tolerated, but I know when I get all self-righteous about it, a little voice cautions me. It’s unsettling. For me, this is a totally relevant and important question for our times (coming with a little cult experience under my own belt). Maybe one cost of spiritual freedom is to exercise the courage to look out for one another and not hesitate to question, investigate and act upon systems of abuse where they are found. Maybe the last resort when this has failed is the intervention of government authorities – what a tragedy.

231. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

230 Across the River
I liked your blog, too…..Nigel.

232. arthur - May 20, 2008

Robert Earl Burton to old time Fellowship of Friends student,

“I know I dreamed you a sin and a lie”.

Old Time student back to Robert Burton,

“I have my freedom but I dont have much time”.

Old time student to all former and current students,

“Faith has been broken tears must be cried
Lets do some living (before) and after we die”.

Quotes from Rolling Stones “Wild Horses”.

233. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

(232) arthur

Dear Arthur
I know you make no pretence in your blogs – I wish I could think simply myself, sometimes – “……..but I, whose definitions are the analytic mind………….” (W B Yeats). I was never considered anything other than a naieve mostly-Solar type when in the FOF, mainly because people who are not naieve have the ability to make money, attend all the FOF meetings and wise-acre about anything they choose because ‘a high level of being’ is indicated by a ‘high level of income’. Now things are different – remember all those ‘inklings’ you had about what was going on and how you often wondered what motivated sudents’ actions – despite what high-up inner-circle students told you. “Now all the truth is out” (see a previous blog of mine). All the best…..Nigel.

234. elena - May 20, 2008

Nigel love, if you love, love quietly. Preferences in a public environment are distasteful. Thank you nevertheless for your sweetness. Try to concentrate on the issues more than on me but if you wish to send me sweet messages independent of the issues, they are welcome without preferences.

At home, when we see couples kissing in the streets, we joke at them and ask them why they are showing money to the poor!

I was watching a T.V series recently and the cop said to the criminal’s girlfriend, he will not kill you as long as you submit because as long as you submit he knows you are under his power but the longer you submit, the more difficult it will be for you to free yourself from this sociopath.

Another interesting angle on our phenomena.

235. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

Hi Elena
I am not sure I understand the meaning of 234, other than that, if I made reference/preference in something I said on the blog to you, I apologise. I have found Universal Love – Agape – before having found that special woman with which to spend my life. Nature and the City call to me and I am obligated to my friends – both those I have around me now, and those I find on the blog – all trying to come to terms with their difficulties, which is, after all what Awakening is all about. I can safely say that Girard will not have awakened (by REB saying it is so, or otherwise), mainly because the FOF does not need another ‘conscious-systems-analyst’ (or maybe it does, in the exercising of control). Awakening requires a certain amount of ‘aloneness’ – feeling one is up-against-it and not ‘drifting up to Heaven, step-by-step’. You have freed yourself physically from the FOF, but more work needs to be done on the Self serving Humanity. Yours…..Nigel.

236. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

Where did Sharon come and go so quickly? I appreciate her being anxious about my bi-polar – I have gone from high to low and back to high within a week, assisted by the (now) full-moon. Was she the Sharon who trained as a nurse in the Los Angeles Center? Or the Center Director, so close to REB? We all continue in our work – FOF or otherwise…..Nigel.

237. sharon - May 20, 2008

none of the above, Nigel, neither nurse nor ever close to REB. Glad you appreciated my concerns.
My tendency is to blurt, then regret, so I go from chatty to very quiet.

238. More history needed? - May 20, 2008

Today’s daily card.

It is a mistake to look for an answer in words.

No use, paying money to go to teachings events?

239. unoanimo - May 20, 2008

Hello Nigel ~

Yes: I take it that you spied 227 before ‘Scotty’ beamed it back up: I like ‘Scotty’, he’s especially great during full moons near Easter Island boulder belly dancing rituals (when no humans are watching)…

Can you post your email here? I was just thinking of you yesterday and today… About a possible project. (?)

…:)

240. lauralupa - May 20, 2008

on trust. reposting from

http://www.consciouscreation.com/cce-LetGo.htm

Let Go and Trust – Is that IT?
By Kristen N. Fox

“Let Go and Trust” is something you hear a lot if you hang around reality creators for even a little while. Sometimes it seems like this is the best answer to all the questions we think up about how something’s going to manifest or why something seems to be taking so long to come into form. After a while it can also seem like the answer we give when we really HAVE no answer to give.

But I learned that “Let Go and Trust” is not the ultimate answer, but just one step in the journey. Usually it’s the best thing to do when we want to release “manual” control or forceful manipulation of physical reality, which is based in fear, fear of change. This step is about opening to more than who we thought we were, opening to an expanded sense of self. When we try to control something, we are limiting our ‘creating’ to that which we have already done, we are limiting ourselves to what we already KNOW. And most of the time, we are afraid that if we release control, things will go to hell in a handbasket faster than you can say “Let Go and Trust”.

In learning to trust our own creative, spontaneous energy, we have to learn to NOT KNOW and to open to the unknown, to what wants to be born, like an artist at an easel. For instance, if all you know is lack or verbal abuse, then you’ll need to open yourself to another option, another vibration, in order to create something different – but accepting the feeling of vulnerability of NOT KNOWING for a while, without closing down and going back to what’s familiar, takes a certain amount of strength and determination, and maybe even, practice. That’s what the whole “Let Go and Trust” thing is about, and why you hear it so often.

One of the things that always bothered me about the “Let Go and Trust” idea as THE ULTIMATE ANSWER was that it seemed to want to completely bypass ME! Was I just an empty vessel through which “god” was supposed to create? While that’s definitely one viable way of experiencing physical reality, it didn’t seem to be the right one for me.. I knew about all of these neat things I wanted to create and experience! I had IDEAS! And even though I knew and accepted this about myself, I still found myself being faced with situation after situation that actually FORCED me to let go and trust, situations where there was absolutely NOTHING I could DO to affect an outcome. Situations that had no precedent, and where I couldn’t fall back to past experience for answers. I started thinking that perhaps I was wrong about the whole empty vessel thing?

Instead, what I finally realized is that my resistance to the idea of letting go and trusting in these cases was me actually trying NOT to give up control! How clever of me! So, with continuous effort and conscious reminding, I stopped TRYING all the time, I stopped worrying. I trusted my impulses when they told me to do something and when they told me to go watch TV or play games. I trusted my inner guidance when it told me that there was nothing to be done and when I should take immediate action. I stopped KNOWING so much about my situations and, for the first time in a long time, allowed myself to LEARN again. To learn a better, easier way. And to learn that I didn’t have to give up my visions, just hold them differently within myself.

And what came of it all? You can call it “control” if you like, and you can say that I rediscovered “control” on a new level, from a new part of ME. Perhaps another way of looking at it is that instead of trying to force my surfboard in a certain direction, I was learning to let the wave do the work for me. For I felt the confidence that I had when I really believed I was “in control” but I no longer felt an almost compulsive need to worry and monitor every little detail as I did then.

I had been a natural with this in some areas of my life. For instance, I have always trusted my ability to create good friends – never worried about it at all, even when I moved to new places, and they always showed up. What I was starting to experience was this sense of confidence and ease in the areas where previously I had known only struggle and lack. Suddenly I was really FEELING new possibilities and inspirations and trusting THEM instead of the old, limited beliefs. “Oh, yeah!” I thought, “I remember this now!”

Truth is, we cycle through this process with every creation, but without necessarily even noticing that we are taking a moment to “open to the unknown”. An idea spawns the channeling of creative energy and the translation of this energy into physical form. Newness happens. CREATION happens. Otherwise, we are just letting fear of the unknown close us down to re-cycle old ideas until they’re threadbare.

The fact that I was aware that there was something MORE than just letting go and trusting (even as I felt I had to take the step in itself) was actually the kind of thing that clued me in to begin with. I had awareness of something beyond what was just in front of my face, something that was not yet in form. Should I not have this awareness? Was it just a flight of fancy that had no relation to what I was “really” in physical reality to do?

Bringing dreams into reality. That’s what I’m here to experience. In this way, life really is a work of art. Being aware of what I want to create, for me, is part of the deal. Not only do I get to trust that vision, that inspiration, that KNOWING, but I also get to trust the path that unfolds in front of me as I channel that energy into form. And now it’s actually rather funny to me that I once EVER thought that “Trust and Let Go” meant I should let go of my dreams and ideas and just be a permanently blank slate!

[Originally published in The Edge, April 2000.]

241. nigel harris price - May 20, 2008

Unoanimo (239)
It is aprhys(at)nigelprice.net. Hope that works!

Lauralupa (240)
There is a song on my Katherine Jenkins album (originally sung by Andrea Bocelli and Celine Dion. “The Prayer”:-

“I pray you be our eyes, and watch us where we go;
And teach us to be wise, in times when we don’t know:
Let this be our prayer, when we lose our way;
Take us to a place; guide us with your grace,
To a place where we’ll be safe”.

(Thanks for everyone’s recent posts)…..Nigel.

242. ton - May 20, 2008

elena 212, “I perceived your question lightly and wish to apologise.”
no need to apologize, i meant the question lightly… thank you for your heartfelt response. here’s to getting out-and-about.

bruce 207
i love you poogie

veramente 210
thanks for helping keep the drum beating

thanks to yesri, laura and all,
your ‘voices’ are appreciated.

243. nigel harris price - May 21, 2008

lauralupa (240)

Just another thought, from the movie “Dumbo”:-

‘Like a bolt out of the blue, FATE steps in and pulls us through’.

(Maybe Fate means no more ‘sinning’ i.e. no more missing the mark. I, too, have realized that, and what you described in 240, in my life)

Nigel.

244. nigel harris price - May 21, 2008

Hi Elena
Just went back to a blog (65) you posted on 20 February this year. I thought what you wrote was brilliant – especially about the Self and Trust being connected. I never felt that in the FOF (although I have both now!) – I used to get ‘photographed’ all the time for ‘not coming up-to-scratch’ (monetarily, good-student act, getting married etc.). I do believe that FATE, The SELF/REAL ‘I’ and one’s ESSENTIAL ABILITIES all fall into line at a certain point in a sincere aspirant’s lifetime…..Yours…..Nigel.

245. Yesri Baba - May 21, 2008

” I do believe that FATE, The SELF/REAL ‘I’ and one’s ESSENTIAL ABILITIES all fall into line at a certain point in a sincere aspirant’s lifetime…..”

I bet there is a lot to be gleened from thinking about that statement in the light of post 240 by lauralupa.

—————————————————

Back at ya ton

246. Andrea - May 21, 2008

To Lauralupa,
yes there is a giant David replica in bronze, I think is in the piazza, I haven’t seen it, but is there!
You have to realize that was such a great deal! Only $80.000!!!
$10000 cash and the rest in pieces of art……
I don’t see how is possible to resist such a good deal. Plus, I cannot think of a better piece to complement the theater and the winery!

247. nigel harris price - May 21, 2008

Yesri Baba (245)

And you, too, are spot-on. If you leave the FOF and reach that state (lauralupa[240]), then you have travelled an enormous distance for Your Self (which MUST, I believe then serve the Greater Good of Humanity). The trouble is, the Foffers are led-blind and trust an empty idol of a man(?). And he, in turn, worships idols and himself. So, Burton, if you want to get ‘down and dirty’ with who’s got what with C-influence, try the dialling code for Budleigh Salterton, Devon, UK (011-44-1395[Unity Through a Revolutionary Man Number Five]
-44-????), to where I was tranquilised and ‘stretchered’ back in 1989. Also, I have a wonderfully accommodating and skillful Mercurial goldsmith ‘outworker’ at Leymans Jewellers in 44 Fore Street, Heavitree, Exeter, Devon and a student of my Academy of Precious Metal Arts (also a Mercurial, but more on the Saturnine side) living at 44 Hamlin Lane, Whipton, Exeter, Devon. My application number for the Membership of the Institute for Learning was 44166649 (which I read as ‘the Gods are with I AM – the Beast is near San Francisco) – anyone can look up that application number on Google ‘IfL’, under my name – Nigel Price. And Joe Calzaghe won his 45th undefeated title fight about two weeks back (another Welshman, by the way – “For I am Welsh, you know, good my countryman.”) (Henry V). As the song goes (for all you sincere ones)
– “I’ll stand by you, won’t let anyone hurt you………………………….”
Yours……………………………………………………………………..Nigel

248. arthur - May 22, 2008

Well, Nigel you look rather reddish and expansive. Would you have an affinity for a red planet and a fat one?

249. elena - May 22, 2008

Nigel and all,

Thank you for paying attention to past efforts. Hopefully we are all learning from each other. I just came up to the foothills and it is so good to be here. Especially not having to go to the Fellowship. It is lovely to see the people but to be free from the constraints that happen inside is magic. Maybe the only good thing about having been in the Fellowship for so long is knowing that life can be ever so much more beautiful!

Spring doesn’t seem very inspiring to write about the dark side of the Moon.

After this year’s work there are multiple areas that I would like to explore more deeply and hopefully it’ll become possible if I can settle somewhere for a few months.

The main area perhaps is the understanding of three lines of work from the point of view of life in its own terms. I’ve become interested in connecting them with regular psychology because I think the Fellowship simply never did its job, that is, work seriously with the System and not just with Robert’s pathology. We lost the possibility to explore things deeply as a group because the aim was that you’d wake up for yourself and only for yourself.

The more I look at it, the more clearly I see connections between the three lines that are purely practical. Today I thought that children who have healthy, loving parents tend to have a healthier outlook on the world at large. The world at large as an aspect of the structure of the third line of work (for of course the third line of work in the Fellowship Cult is simply: If you’re not making money for Robert, support octaves so that the brothel looks at least like a decent club), is where the most civilized and uncivilized aspects of humanity express themselves. Public institutions are acquisitions that have been long struggled for and wars are mainly public payments conditioned by economic interests, both the instinctive and the emotional run parallel, as in individuals. The centres spread out over the sheet of social life allows for the different energies to be observed. The lack of consciousness allows for the instinctive centre to predominate in most endeavours but parallel to it, a powerful drive towards something better is also strong.

I expect nothing more than to bore most of you with these thoughts but these is probably the direction I’ll be heading towards for the rest of my life because if an individual can come to an understanding of “wholefullness” there is no reason for whole societies and eventually mankind, to come to such an understanding and incorporate it practically into the stream of life. The work of men like Rudolf Steiner has been pointing in that direction for a century and the System attempted to point in that direction with Rodney Collin’s work but unfortunately there was only one Rodney Collin as far as I know, it is lucky that I am ignorant and hopefully will find out many more. What I mean is that making the work practical, “consciousness” practical as the Fourth Way demands, was attempted by Rodney Collin in The Theory of Celestial Influences, coming as close to a scientific approach to his understandings as he was able to conceive. It is a beautiful book that I long to go back to soon enough.

In Steiner’s work, by the mere fact that he ruled out the possibility of idolizing him (who knows how practical this really is or was within the Anthroposophical followers) the different sciences he gave an anthroposophical foundation to, have been much developed by many, many different authors: water engineers working with the divinity of water as a being and trying to convey the absurdity of locking water up in dams leaving the soils of the world to dry up without the traditional natural rhythm of crops as is happening in Egypt and other places: people in medicine, in art, in music all trying to understand the connections between the spiritual and the physical, prove that the Fourth Way, has continued to develop in Life no matter how poorly Gurdjieff’s effort has done in the long run. Rodney Collin was a giant but the Fourth way needs that each individual knows himself a giant, that is, a true human being. Steiner managed to convey this as at least as a principle and freed his followers to work in their own trade. He stated from the beginning of his work that man today was too ripe for teachers in the old style and trusting and following his own self and work was what would develop the knowledge and understanding the individual undertook.

Please understand that this is not a calling publicity for anthroposophical schools, (I hate closed up schools of any kind that pretend to be fourth way schools), but a look at the Fourth Way in a larger context than that of the tiny, ridiculous, little cult- brothel-club that so many people are still devoted to belonging to, known as The Fellowship of Friends. Ignorance is daring. To be attached to a cult that promises personal development through denial of social participation in the Fourth Way tradition instead of embracing the magnanimity of life in each of its currents, is like a track runner who cuts his feet off in the belief that without them he’ll have to carry less weight.

Each one of us, who have left the Fellowship, would profit from embracing the activity that we love with the understanding that no matter what activity it is, spiritual laws manifest in each one of them. And we could also try to balance our centres with the understanding that science and art are both a legitimate foundation to our development, just as the body and the spirit need to work together to develop a soul. Beauty comes not only from the activity itself but also from the delicacy that each individual approaches it. It is the tree that transforms the elements into fruit. Each man’s trade is his own path and not one of them is more valuable or more beautiful than another. The scale of values of our time does not understand that men develop through their work and it is man himself who gives value to the work. If we were true to ourselves, we would not perform jobs that harm other people or work in factories that diminish people’s well-being. No one would work only to make money. Everyone would find that the most absurd and childish thing a human being could do. That is how they’ll look at us and our time in the future: as very immature and ignorant people, the point zero of humanity in which anyone could set up a so called spiritual shop and rip other people off who were already well trained to get ripped of by an economy that never respected them as human beings and made them become serial workers with socio-pathological skills. This is no coincidence. It is the fruit of our time.

250. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

Arthur 247
Yes, me old mate! Mars-Jovial in the picture, Mars-Jovial by nature. Don’t know how the part-Solar is coming along these days, other than I share with Martin Luther King “I have a dream”. and so to……..

Elena 248
Great and powerful thought! Was it not Rodney Collin who said “It may be a miserable (can’t remember the exact word in ‘Conscious Harmony’) thing to be a lady, but to be a woman – NEVER!” How about changing the Game Plan for the Age of Aquarius – “Seven female conscious beings will arrive to usher in the New Age”. Up yours (differently), REB…..Nigel.

251. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

What I had, last night, meant to wake up to blog this morning, was Man(kind?) Utd won on penalty shoot-outs in Moscow, Russia. I knew the final goal was going to be saved when the Chelsea #39 (REB was born on this planet in 1939) stepped up to save his team from defeat and his shot was saved by the Man U. keeper. Come on you Reds! (red and gold are England’ colours/blue, France’s colours – Henry V). Symbolism rules O.K……Nigel.

252. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

Funnily enough, the blue ‘start’ button on my computer tower is starting to play up and may ‘conk-out’ again!…………. Nigel.

253. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

Is today REB’s birthday? Two litttle ‘duckies’ go fuckey-fuckey….Nigel

254. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

And maybe the Celts, as warrior-nobility, in which both male and female can be 1) Chieftain, 2) Bard and 3) Smith, will save the planet…..Nigel.

255. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

I was soaking in a herbal bath this morning and the labels on the shampoo and conditioner read “PANTENE -Pro V” (as in, The Absolute [all] holds for Victory). Hoping Susan Zannos reads this and, Susan, I want to add a lengthy addition to the anti-FOF petition. Hold out for it!….Nigel

256. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

“Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more…..”. You guessed it – I’m watching the Kenneth Branagh version of Henry V at just past 6.30am (our time). Hope I’m making use of the full moon and transit of Venus for you guys!?…..Nigel.

P.S. “The French seeking to avert……with pale policies……………..”

257. lauralupa - May 22, 2008

I am a bit afraid of taking too much space on this blog, which has been very quiet in the past couple of days, but I’d like to make an addendum to the altered states thread. I personally have no objections to the use of entheogens, but it’s good to know that there are a number of other methods, like breathwork or shamanic practices, that one can use to enter altered states of consciousness.

While we were discussing these things, I ran into (I have to admit, often these informations just seem to “fall on my lap”) the site of the Cuyamungue Institute, New Mexico. This institution was created by the late anthropologist Felicitas Goodman, who (re)discovered a technique of entering states of ecstatic trance through the use of ritual body postures.
Here is how she “stumbled” onto her discovery while studying ancient artifacts:

“In addition to much abstract ornamentation, the archeological record of human artistic activity also contains human representations. Upon close scrutiny, most of these human effigies share a curious feature of a non-ordinary body posture such as the hands placed on the middle of the body, the fingers spread in an unexpected way or the tongue hanging out. In 1977, in connection with my ongoing research concerning altered states of consciousness, I had the research subjects assume one of these non-ordinary postures and then added a rhythmic stimulation. To my surprise, the subjects reported a variety of visionary experiences. Apparently, I had inadvertently stumbled onto a very ancient shamanic system that had hitherto gone unrecognized. During initial research, a number of regularities became evident. The visionary experience varied according to the posture…. There were postures mediating divination, shape-shifting, or even healing. It became clear that the postures were rituals, each one containing its own implicit myth.“

And more info about the trances:

“Ritual posture is the doorway to the Alternate Reality, a name given to the layers of reality perceivable from various altered states of consciousness. There are over 70 known postures that allow unique exploration of the world of the Spirits for specific purposes including healing, divination, spirit journeys, myth making, and metamorphosis. The trance state is induced by a simple ritual for preparation, introducing auditory stimulation such as drumming or rattling, and assuming a ritual posture for fifteen minutes. Anyone with a healthy nervous system can be trained to enter and leave the trance state quite easily, in the appropriate ritual setting.

“Laboratory research carried out in 1984 in conjunction with the University of Munich and the University of Vienna indicates that ecstatic trance represents a truly dramatic psychological and physiological change in the individual. Blood pressure drops while simultaneously the pulse increases. In the blood serum, adrenaline, noradrenalin, and cortisol drop and simultaneously the brain releases beta-endorphins, the body’s own opiate. Concurrently, the electric activity of the brain, as evidenced by EEGs, shifts toward theta waves of low frequency and high amplitude. Upon cessation of the rhythmic stimulation, all these values return to normal except for the beta-endorphins, which tend to linger, sometimes for days.

Seen as a whole, the visionary experiences also transmit a worldview distinct from the one represented by the Western participant. Ecstatic trance introduced by ritual body postures does not support a view of the world divided into good and evil, nor are the beings of the Alternate Reality arranged into a distinct hierarchy. The spirits we get to know, although powerful, do not assert any dominance, rather, they reflect an egalitarian system. Another striking feature emerged during our research, namely that of healing. This healing is different from the Western notion, since it covers both physical and psychological ills. This characteristic is so pervasive that not only are there specific healing postures (for example the Bear Spirit Posture), but each ecstatic trance experience is also one of healing.”

We can also take notice here that there are very different approaches to studying the artistic heritage of humanity. One can either arrogantly superimpose any convenient and arbitrary meaning on top of a work of art (like for example “the Sequence”), or one can humbly try, with eyes wide open, to understand what messages were originally intended by its makers.

It’s also a matter of getting lost in details against getting “the whole picture”. Admittedly, I might be flogging a dead horse, but the whole Fellowship approach to art IMO is so flawed and subservient to Robert’s brainwashing aims that I feel it’s a good subject for further discussion…

258. lauralupa - May 22, 2008

and here is the link:

http://www.cuyamungueinstitute.com/

259. lauralupa - May 22, 2008

BTW, I didn’t put the smiley there…

260. arthur - May 22, 2008

Lauralupa (256),

“Fall on my lap”!

Sure they do. To me there is something unexplainable and invisible going on.

But. I’m glad because they bounce off your lap and fall into mine.

Thanks for your continued contributions.

261. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

laurlupa 256
I did not get to read all your blog (yet!) but can tell you about altered states through the dopamine floods I have in ‘hypo-manic’ states. They are Natural and Real (more proof to follow) and I actually have to take enough of the anti-psychotic ‘Olanzapine’, sometimes (as with the last few days) with additional small doses of ‘Haloperidol’ (which, unfortunately causes dyskinesia – very embarrasing for someone trying to teach jewellery and fine-metalwork) along with ‘Depakote’ as a mood-stabiliser. I went to see ‘Midge’, my Lunar-Venusian-Mercurial ‘spreader-type’ GP, about how I have been dealing with these days ‘highs’. His response was what I should have guessed “Slow down and rest; don’t try to do too much”. Maybe I am a Celtic-Shaman, by proxy!? But now, the proof – outside the GP’s office were growing Californian Poppies and next to them lay a crushed and broken transparent plastic cup (I interpreted as the ‘dregs of the FOF’). Obviously, I picked it up and chucked it in the nearest waste-receptacle (symbolizing MY SELF ridding the ‘natural landscape’ of ‘useless artifice’)………………..
….”I perceive letters from God dropped in the Street” – Whitman.
(Now will read your blog in full – promise!)

262. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

lauralupa (Name-Female wolf?)
Can you explain the difference (other than the terminology) between endorphins (which cause a relaxed state) and dopamine (which, for me, causes a highly-charged, semiotic, etymological state). Can we converse back-and-forth on the blog for this?……………….. Nigel.

“I’ve been mad for years, absolutley f****ing years…..I know I’ve been mad, like the most of us have” – Pink Floyd ‘Dark Side of the Moon’

263. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

To All
After the courtroom drama (which I perceive as imminent), will REB get away with it through pleading diminshed responsibility?

A. Goldman:-“Your honour, my client, Mr Burton, is a paranoid-schizophrenic-pathological-narcissist, and begs the court’s indulgence”.

Judge:-“Mr Burton has had quite enough indulgence!”

264. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 22, 2008

246 is newly moderated.

Lauralupa: The list of techniques to use in order to enter altered states is pretty vast – from yoga, the millions of different versions of meditation (active/passive), breathwork, shamanic practices, magick, … It kind of depends on the effects you are after.

Body postures are an interesting one, I have been reading a bit of Reich and Lowen (synchronistically, at the same time when Ton was writing about him here) and became interested in body armouring and posture as a reflection of character, which I then tried to change through changing my everyday posture, sitting positions,… I did get quite a bit out of it, it was almost comical to see how my body waged war on me for trying to force it to do such unnatural things as sit still with my back staight, uncross my legs or stand with my hands out of my pockets. The levels of tension in my body were (and to a large extent still are) astronomical.

This form of practice, as well as other body work such as daily yoga or martial arts gave me a fair share of altered states, the most common being an extreme inflow of energy (especially when grounded properly) and a feeling like I could move mountains with my hands, only one of them if I really tried.

With entheogens and even party drugs I experienced days-long altered states long time after I have taken them – from days to two weeks after. These states were probably most mind-blowing because they allowed me a level of control over myself which I have never had before or after.

The funny thing about them all has been the amount of new information, or self-knowledge that they brought about and with more experiences they have now entered my normal life, they are not as drastic and powerful as when they first come about but they are a mild and welcome part of my overall experience and it is very pleasant not to have to put so much effort into entering them. I have to say that I have lost the wish to enter them in a forceful or goal-orientated way. I guess that the best metaphor I could use would be to liken the new altered states to new roads being built in my brain/mind/… which then become accessible for further use. I don’t think (not that I have enough information to make this claim) that awakening/enlightenment/whichever other abstract level of achievement we may be seeking, is accessible through this route but altered states definitely make existence more interesting, as any other change does. (It seems that most great changes are followed by a feeling of euphoria and ‘being more alive’, whether they are chemical, mental, physical, or situational).

265. Mick Danger - May 22, 2008

Try not to be formatory:
Either Princess Bobby was lying to us then,
Or he’s lying to you now, Or Both.
“It’s good for me, it’s good for you
That good old medicated goo.”

266. arthur - May 22, 2008

Using old time Fellowship of Friends language, “out of patterns” didnt that execise have multiple uses one of which is what Lauralupa and the Shiek are referring to?

267. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

Hey, hey Arthur, that’s the way – play that ba***rd, Burton at his own language and stuff him down his own Black Hole……………… Nigel.

268. nigel harris price - May 22, 2008

By the way, Sheik, Lauralupa and Arthur
I left a ‘greeting’ message on the ‘Cuma-wot-sit’ site and may here from them. Will keep you posted………………… Nigel.

269. Allan S - May 22, 2008

Elena

Your last post inspired me to this, why I do not know…

In front of me is this incredible thing called the body. Everything happens through it and yet I am personally very rarely aware that it is there. If I listen closely and sometimes even when I don’t, it makes its presence known to me. In some bizarre way this simple realisation presents a possibility I-conscious-of my body. How simple. Whilst this may only represent a certain degree of consciousness I remember many times Robert telling me that I should forget about becoming conscious this lifetime. Indeed he often said “not this lifetime Dear”. I used to think, “How dreadful! Surely this cannot be true, if so what am I doing here?” In a terribly negligent way this man convinced my mind that this would be so. When I read anything from Robert Burton I often sense this familiar taste of “wanting to believe”. I can see this passing through my mind almost as though my mind were fishing for something to latch on. Now however I do not bite and the association passes…

I now believe the reality is very different and that consciousness is very much a possibility, and yes not just through the 4th way. I personally like the 4th way, it suits me and yet there is the feeling that I am going through a terrible de-programming so that I can hear the same old 4th way ideas in a new and fresher way. I think Gurdjieff himself talked about this “de-programming” but I do not recall the context. For me there are a lot of wrong connections that need to be broken and I do not find it easy. It most certainly requires me to disregard everything I “learned” about spiritual development in the FoF and directly from Robert Burton, not that there was much from the later.

Allan.

270. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - May 22, 2008

#246 To Lauralupa,
yes there is a giant David replica in bronze, I think is in the piazza, I haven’t seen it, but is there!
You have to realize that was such a great deal! Only $80.000!!!
$10000 cash and the rest in pieces of art……
I don’t see how is possible to resist such a good deal. Plus, I cannot think of a better piece to complement the theater and the winery!

Joke or not this says plenty. Sad but true the purchasing and viewing of art takes precedence over abusive actions towards others.

271. somebody - May 22, 2008

One thing I don’t understand is how the current teaching can make sense to the intelligent and educated people in FOF. Am I missing something? Is it even possible to explain? Can Girard explain it?

1 The six stools coming from the rhinoceros represent “mental defilement”

– What is “mental defilement”? How do people experience it?

2 The four cloud-like shapes on either side represent the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths.

– Why inhalation and exhalation have to be represented?

3 Susanna represents the nine of hearts. She is taking the four wordless breaths, but she senses the lower self lurking in the background. The lower self is the prince of darkness. He rules the second state.

– I just wonder how a student can make use of such information as “lurking lower self”

4 Here we see the pharaoh as the steward; however, he is being monitored by the nine of hearts, who holds four fingers on his neck and four fingers on his arm, guiding him through the narrow gate. It shows the quietly deliberate behavior of the nine of hearts.

– Steward being monitored by nine of hearts. What does it mean practically?

7 Here the Buddha—the steward—is completing a sequence, resting upon a square pillow. The three figures in front represent the three Be’s. The lower self does anything it can to break the sequence; therefore, we must do everything we can to complete it.

– We must do everything we can to complete it? I don’t find completing the sequence such a hard thing to do. Is it so hard for some people?

8 Not too long ago we went to Egypt and detected the message for the first time, and now we understand this marvelous message. The six figures represent Be, Hold, Theme, Back, Theme, and BE.

– This is pure imagination.

9 The three legs of the table, and the three dice, both refer to the three Be’s. Incredibly, there are twenty-one points on the dice, representing a successful sequence unfolding. It means that the steward—card number one—will transcend himself into card twenty-one.

– How did we jump to a number 21? I thought it was 6. Or 10?

10 The six gates represent the sequence, while above them, the four figures represent the four wordless breaths. Although it almost looks like a voodoo image, it is sublime in its meaning—that imagination has been taken out between the four wordless breaths, represented by the four upside-down beheaded figures. The last upside-down figure is slightly detached from the top, because the Tenth Commandment is coming to an end and a new sequence is about to begin, represented by the mummy in white.

– Oh, this is absolutely clear :). No questions!

272. WhaleRider - May 22, 2008

Sheik:
How wonderful to hear of your path. You are in good company. It’s nice to feel alive, isn’t it?

Nigel:
Wow, I am impressed by your level of disclosure. Maybe it’s the water…didn’t Churchill and you have something in common? I’ve found sometimes those little daily pill boxes that you set up for the week can come in handy to maintain your equilibrium. Do we now have the honor of being counted as part of your support network? I would think that daily blogging would be healthy for you. Hypo-manic states can be fun; too, you can get a lot done. I do feel for you, Nigel, having to take meds to keep yourself safe from possible harm, I know you pay a great price with the med side effects. My apologies if I have been harsh to you in the past. I can appreciate that you are engaged in a daily struggle with being present, which is a noble cause for all of us; especially for us aging baby boomers, AKA old farts. As we age, to continue living well we really have no choice but to transform our health issues into useful shocks that teach us to appreciate living in the moment. I wish you well.

lauralupa:
You make an excellent point. Robert is getting people lost in the details of justifying his cult through imposing his warped view of synchronicity on his followers and exercising thought reform through repetition of the 30 commands. For many years exercise was banned in the FOF, limiting natural access to altered states.

wakeuplittlesuzywakeup:
Robert has only a cheap metallic replica compared to the real one. The real one rose up against and overcame his giant lower self.

273. lauralupa - May 22, 2008

Hi y’all

Andrea 246
so it’s no a joke…
this news is interesting for so many reasons, some of which I hope to further explore with you kind people. I am responding somewhat personally to this, since David is both an icon of Florence, where I live, and of the Renaissance, where I used to live.

You may already know that this awesome statue was conceived as “a symbol of the proud independence of the Florentine republic”, whose virtues he was designed to embody.
“Strength and Wrath were the two most important virtues, characteristic of the ancient patron of the city Hercules.”

Strange simbol for the land of the la-la-la and no-negativity-allowed.

Another interesting detail:

“Michelangelo breaks away from the traditional way of representing David. He does not present us with the winner, the giant’s head at his feet and the powerful sword in his hand, but portrays the youth in the phase immediately preceding the battle: perhaps he has caught him just in the moment when he has heard that his people are hesitating, and he sees Goliath jeering and mocking them.”

Goodness Robert, watch out for stones!
C influence is dishing out strange ominous messages these days.
Could this signal the start of the Revenge of the Living and Dead Artists’ Society?

274. brucelevy - May 22, 2008

Let no one be misled. Back in the 70’s and 80’s RB used to refer to the David in comparison to his “boy’s” bodies. This is just another expensive source of titillation to keep the boys hard. And all you “members”…you paid for it. Maybe he’ll have one of the Fellowship sculptors add a hard dick.

275. brucelevy - May 22, 2008

$80,000.00 viagra for the old queen.

276. You-me-us-they - May 22, 2008

On the David,

One element which will be easy to reconcile is the tension right/left, lower higher:
Following platonistic ideas (à la mode at that time) we have intentional monstruous right hand (leading towards earthy matters? Lower self?)
while the left hand poses above the shoulder (higher self?) where the head also turns, opposing any possible peace!
Yes… Vigilence… An enemy must be there!…

You may, though, enjoy the rest of the nude!

277. elena - May 22, 2008

Little Suzy 269: “You have to realize that was such a great deal! Only $80.000!!!
$10000 cash and the rest in pieces of art……
I don’t see how is possible to resist such a good deal. Plus, I cannot think of a better piece to complement the theater and the winery!

Joke or not this says plenty. Sad but true the purchasing and viewing of art takes precedence over abusive actions towards others.”

Am I understanding you correctly? Do you really think that the David is bought by Robert because it is Art? I wish I could see it that way. From another perspective it is a shrine to Robert’s practices on young men. A shrine to his rapes. Wasn’t Michealangelo also gay? His selection of Art is an aspect of the indoctrination in form that he has mastered. By imposing these “shrines,” he is subtly having the followers accept the condition of rapist and finance it. The line between homosexuality and a serial rapist of the young men who join the Fellowship cult is very difficult to define when the men are raped with their apparent consent but in having these kind of works, and these one in particular of a young beautiful male body representing one of the greatest moments in Western art is conveying his victory over the massive run of students from the Cult. It is meant to reassure himself as much as others that nothing has seriously changed and that nothing has happened and that he has enough support to pay for such extravanganzas even if a hundred more students have to be taken off salary. Of course, it is not students who matter but money and shrines that will make the short-sighted followers justify their presence in such a cult with the thought that they are supporting Art, the understanding and love of Culture! Cheap ignorants! Brainwashed and sick and when you look closely you verify the degree to which this has become true.

This is not Art. It is the Art of twisting people’s lives around to make them submissive enough to rape and be raped by a sociopath. It is called organized crime and the silk costumes don’t make it any prettier.

Laura, thanks for your great inputs. On beating a dead horse, while it gets tiring it is good to remember it is not nearly dead but quite recovered and some serious beating would give a lot of people a good deal of help. As Rumi put it, if you’ve got a snake inside you can’t get it out without a good beating.

What a beautiful image you brought with the positions and movements bringing higher states. It is so clear that in dance and yoga that would be the case and sometimes just walking or running when one allows the body to be and tell one about itself.

In relation to that I came across this in Karl Konig’s Living Physiology, this morning:

“The sense of movement is the continuous melody which is played on the harmonious background of the human body. Wherever there is movement and the sense of movement, the laws of sound and music apply. If we were able to free the sense of movement form its bodily chains, we would rise up and fly off like a beautiful bird. The sense of movement is the chained bird within our bodily frame.

The organ of the sense of movement is the so-called motor nerve system of the spinal cord and central part of the brain. Twenty pairs of nerves emerge from each side of the spine and they give us our sense of movement. They are really a large musical instrument like a lyre, and on this lyre the movements play their melodies, their harmonies and rhythms. In deaf people who are sensitive, you only need to seat them with their backs to the orchestra and they will be able to tell you exactly what the orchestra is playing, not because they hear it but because they sense it in the same way as we experience the sense of movement.”

Nigel, would you care to share your biography? You can leave out anything you don’t want others to hear. And have you ever considered slowly getting off those things you take and replacing them for a deep trust in your ability to love yourself and this world as it is? Of course, “loving it” to me doesn’t mean blind acceptance and do nothing about it, on the contrary, fight until the last day for the permanent presence of love!

Sheik, thank you for sharing.

278. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - May 22, 2008

276 Elena: ‘Am I understanding you correctly? Do you really think that the David is bought by Robert because it is Art? I wish I could see it that way.’

Elena, actually I was speaking about some current members’ priorities, not Robert’s, since I assumed this was written by a current member, although I really don’t know who Andrea is. Thanks for sharing with me your interpretation of what I said. It just goes to show that many times we are misunderstood.

!

279. wakeuplittlesuzywakeup - May 22, 2008

A little more added to my statement in #277:

Elena: Here is my statement in #269 restated in a more articulate fashion::

‘Joke or not this says plenty. Sad but true the purchasing and viewing of art by some current members takes precedence over REB’s abusive actions towards others.

280. Yesri Baba - May 22, 2008

Test to see if you are a normal sane human being or a lobotomised, brainwashed fof cult member:

A building is burning down. Inside is the Mona Lisa and an ordinary ‘life’ baby. You have only the possibility of saving one of them. Which do you save?

281. ton - May 23, 2008

yesri, i’d choose life.

elena 249
thank you for your thought-filled and thought-provoking post. I’ll just comment briefly on one of your opening statements; you wrote:

“The main area perhaps is the understanding of three lines of work from the point of view of life in its own terms. I’ve become interested in connecting them with regular psychology because I think the Fellowship simply never did its job, that is, work seriously with the System and not just with Robert’s pathology. We lost the possibility to explore things deeply as a group because the aim was that you’d wake up for yourself and only for yourself.”

thank you for pointing out that the “waking game” is not about “yourself and only yourself…” it’s significant that the fellowship promoted exactly this mindset and look at the mess it’s made of people’s lives. you begin by acknowledging the beauty of freedom from the constraints of the fellowship… i don’t think anyone here would disagree. what i would say in general is this: it is even more liberating to “think outside the box” and what i mean by “the box” is “the system.”

the word “cult” — especially to us here– carries all sorts of negative connotations. in other cultures and in another sense of the word, “cult” refers to a group of people who worship together… there is not anything inherently negative about that… but we know all too well, how egotism, coercion and mind-control can twist the situation. i’ve worked at an “anthroposophical school” since the year 2000 — google “camphill movement” or “camphill special school” if you care to — and what i can say based on my experience is, at the core of the anthroposophical movement there is a strong tendency to “idolize” steiner… “steiner says this, steiner says that…” whenever i hear this, i advocate in one way or another, for those who speak in these terms to “think outside the box.”

i work for a camphill school, but i speak here of “anthroposophists” from an outsider’s perspective. i avoid the cult-side of the organization “like the plague,” indeed, i avoid that aspect as if my life (my freedom) depended upon it. the fact that i am able to do so and still function effectively within the organization says a lot about the latitude given, and attitude taken toward “outside” influencers. speaking as an outsider working within the organization, i believe that the anthroposophical movement is at it’s core a cult phenomena and from my perspective, the hero-worship and quoting of the gospel according to steiner that goes on in certain circles, is an indication of cult mentality. i’m affiliated with anthroposophy through my profession as a teacher of “special needs students” at a camphill school… but for me it is a teaching job; i went through their waldorf-based teacher training but they also paid my way at university for a “mainstream” education and certification in special ed… that says something of the relative openness of the organization. were i more “connected” or “integrated” into certain circles of the organization, it would necessarily imply contact and collusion with cultish aspects of the organization, i choose not to be involved in that way and this is acknowledged and supported by my colleagues. i work with many close personal friends who take similar positions regarding the steiner-worship-thing; the fact that people with a more “skeptical” and even contrary view share in and are part of the community says a lot about the organization. being on the “outside” of the “inner-circles” isn’t always a comfortable place to be, i could play the game, become a social-climber within the organization, but (thanks to my fellowship experience) i choose not to. i work alongside colleagues, companions and friends who, are like-minded, in that for various reasons, they choose not to get involved in the cultish side of things there. apparently the organization accepts other points of view, evidenced by the fact that it continues to pay me (and others) for what i do and essentially who i am — which would not include the description “anthroposophist.” there are plenty of pro-anthroposophy sites but for an “anti cult” perspective see:

http://www.easeonline.org/

p.s.
one reason i was drawn to the waldrof approach to education was their approach and description of “teaching as a lively art…” in this regard, here is a link that pertains to so-called “special needs issues” — which some may find of interest (?)

http://www.studio360.org/episodes/2008/03/28

i wish i had more time to address the many fine posts i’m reading here, but instead i’ll say i wish all the best to you all.

282. unoanimo - May 23, 2008

279

I’d save the building; then I’d have a new child in my life and a ‘second original’ too.

:.)

283. ton - May 23, 2008

ok, so i’m staying up past my usual bedtime, can’t sleep…. i hope that someone does not accuse me of “skipping my meds” because i’m posting here in close proximity to my last “offering” — come-on whalerider, lighten up! thank you nigel for keeping the beat and for your positive voice.

laura, thank you for reposting “let go and trust” and especially 257… very interesting stuff there… i have the book and have worked with “ECSTATIC BODY POSTURES” by Belinda Gore. as for “altered states” and “entheogens” as you mentioned, i’ll share this tidbit from one of my favorite writers on the subject and in that genre, submitted by me with this caveat;
words cannot describe, regardless of “the way:”

“March 2, 1971
Further experiments with the psycho-audible warp phenomenon yesterday raise some interesting new questions and enhance our ongoing understanding. I chose the term ‘audible warp’ because my experience thus far, coupled with what I have been told, leads me to believe that this all has to do with vocally generating a specific kind of energy field which can rupture three dimensional space. I do not understand if the field is electromagnetic but it seems to bend space in such a way as to turn it upon itself through a higher dimension. Here is how it is done…”

(‘uno’
the prior statement might be applied to the “icaro” as a “medicine song”. to continue the thread and to find out more about “how it is done…” read terrence mckenna’s “true hallucinations” at pg. 81).

sheik 264 always good to read your posts! good to hear the bit-o-synchronicity with your reading of lowen… “in connection with” with my own practice of martial arts: i found our years apart that a reichian therapist i worked with many years ago happened to know a tai chi teacher i worked more with more recently and years later… is it really such “a small fucking world” after all? and speaking of bodywork/breathwork, have you ever “bent over backwards? on a bioenergetic stool, that is…

http://www.bioenergeticspress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=51

(grant ramey used to call bed “the magic rack.” of course he was right… also).

284. ton - May 23, 2008

i like to reread what i post and i just read my previous attempt. that was really butchered so i try again, not that it matters much:

sheik 264 always good to read your posts! good to hear the bit-o-synchronicity with your reading of lowen… “in connection with” with my own practice of martial arts: years after working with a reichian therapist in the area, a tai chi teacher i’ve practiced with more recently also used to work with that same therapist…

and etc…

like i “said”
4 what it’s worth.

peace

285. nigel harris price - May 23, 2008

Dear Ton (ton in English slang means 100, symbolizing Fate)

Maybe we cross-blogged and my Windows Internet Explorer malfunctioned because I lost a lengthy blog to Elena, about her invitation to post my biography. Nothing surprises me these last few days, since, just yesterday, a bomb went off in a cafe in the new Princesshay Shopping Center, in Exeter, where I live – “Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world” – W B Yeats ‘The Second Coming’. (Anyway, Elena, I’ll work on your request). Love to you both and all………………………………………………………………….Nigel.

286. Silver Lining - May 23, 2008

Listen to this conversation about a cult that counts dozens of current US congress members among its ranks. …Many, many parallels to the FOF experience.

http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=26441

Caroline Casey of KPFA radio’s Visionary Activist show welcomes Jeff Sharlet (contributing editor for Harpers and Rolling Stone, research scholar at NYU’s Center for Religion and the Media) who’s forthcoming book, “The Family,” is essential reading for all concerned about our democratic experiment.

Sharlet delineates the complex story of this secret theocratic society, known as “The Family” that lives at the heart of our democracy, and is connected to a huge global network of “power players” in oil, energy, government, virtually everyone who feels that the world is best governed by an elite secret theocratic kingdom, dedicated to dominance who embrace cultural imperialism – and that includes Hillary Clinton, who joined when she was First Lady.

287. unoanimo - May 23, 2008

Greetings You-Me-Us-They ~

To me, not to exactly ‘compare’ ‘David’ with ‘Perseus’, though, I would say that Benvenuto Cellini’s ‘Perseus’ rivals ‘David’ by at least a cosmos, well, ok, maybe just a galaxy… He was also one of the world’s greatest goldsmith’s, something Arthur would most likely already know, if not, then, there’s surprises awaiting…

For me,(so far) Medusa’s head resembles that of Perseus’s, so much, that whether it was intensional or a subconscious Jungian/Freud thingy, the rest of the implication (IMO) is astounding: everyone has a feminine within them who (in its rough stage) can turn others who look at it (and oneself) to stone (Aka, the ‘Mother’s Finger’ belongs to her ‘kind of’ serpent headed body):

IMO, Cellini’s statue is very similar to Jodorowsky’s idea of ‘Death’s skeleton’ as being the symbol of a new life beginning from having *’slain that body who was upon it prior’ (*my paraphrase of Laura’s reading of J’s meaning)…

Perseus is in the exact ‘inner pose’ that most shaman’s ‘have to’ take after being ‘set straight’ by certain visions (waking dreams), experiences and revelations, yet, the work and to keep the lessons is lying at his feet, even supporting him, i.e., it’s not a defeat that Perseus has achieved (IMO), he has taken it upon himself to open Pandora’s Box (Medusa) and is head-bowed in utter humiliation and acceptance that he has done this deed to ‘his Medusa’ and not ‘THE MEDUSA’:

the ‘David’ still belongs to this world, even, IMO, in a hyper way… By Michelangelo’s depiction, David has not actually slain the giant (a big message here maybe for the FOF)…

In slaying what he ‘thought’ was the giant (the physical body) and or the ‘giant problem belonging to humanity at large (or giant)’, the spirit of the giant and of David’s ‘giant deed’ has possessed him and David has most ironically become the giant himself, hence, Michelangelo’s (giant) ‘David’… Even the hand that pulled back the slingshot has become a ‘giant’ too, the head is ‘giant’, wherein ‘giant thoughts of killing giants’ resides… A book could be written…

Hello Nigel Harris ~

Wow… With all those heavy duty allopathic remedies and a seemingly ‘no fear’ spirit of administering them to your soul’s endeavor to ride out this surf, have you not ever heard of ‘Ibogaine’? It’s not the same as taking Iboga in the Gabon, though it does carry the sentient spirit whose embodied in that holy plant form within it… Have your ‘nurse’ or assistant research it… I believe it may assist in riding you of these other heavyweight bouncers who are guarding a nightclub that’s not altogether really in a bad neighborhood: maybe it’s to keep the nightclub itself from being seen… (?)

Hello Sheik ~

Yes, there’s allot of yogi positions (not sure about the millions though)… To add a bit to Laura’s post about these postures and share with you: there are postures relative only to shamanic episodes and spirit embodiments, that the Yogi systems (as far as I can tell so far) do not lean towards, some forms of martial arts do, though, these ‘forms’ are in their own context and not necessarily ‘medicinal’ outside the person performing them or the sort of channeling that occurs in some shamanic situations:

Some postures and positions can be compared by outward ‘look’ though their inward destination and origin can be as different as night and day, so far as the spirit involved… Sometimes the man becomes the tiger or imagines himself embodied by his ‘idea’ of a tiger, while other times the tiger becomes ‘I’, then all that posturing pretty much goes out the window…

If you let the baby throw out the bathwater, then, there’s no risk…

The thought just came to my mind ~ It’s like sitting alone with your friend and making a snuggly purrrring noise; that’s one effect between the ‘We’… Then there’s suddenly waking up in the middle of the night with a purring noise coming from somewhere in the room, that’s another, especially if you do not own a cat…

IMO, the postures in shamanism are for ceremonial aims and love/soul retrieval-channeling and the overall ‘work’ to be done between the shaman, the ‘being-healed’ and the spirit world (plus all this as being a mirror for the shaman ‘itself’)…

They ‘happen’ in the context of two or more people, though simultaneously ‘help’ the Shaman too… The Shaman, if his or her intent is truly in/from/and back again via the heart, ‘borrows’ or ‘it borrows him or her’ some of the ‘patient’s’ ills and works them out there and later ‘other ills/psychic constipations’ only in solitude…

The form is one thing and the context another: a Tai Chi Chuan master once told me that ‘Yes, it’s very slow and soft, it seems defenseless towards an oncoming aggressive ‘foe’; but if I speed it up, then…’
_____________________

Elena,

Your posts concerning what Robert does to ‘the boys’ are seeming very familiar to something I heard once…

I want to suggest that you also place some ‘weight’ on ‘the boys’ too: they do unto themselves as Robert does to them when he’s not around as well; so, believe it or not, in the Galleria after hour’s picnic, there’s more than one picnic basket sitting on the blanket and some that Robert doesn’t even know about…

Yes, the originator is one person and yet there are many more who by their specific ‘original’ spirit-magnets, add to Robert’s magnet, changing it, morphing and crystallizing, then shattering to regather into a mirror made of broken mirrors… Only to make (curiously enough) the inner magnet more depleted (dependent) and the other ring of attached magnets ‘seeming stronger’ though weaker based on the blurred sense of autonomy via the subconscious reality of Dependence of Proximity, which many outside the inner circle ‘have’…

It’s a very tricky game, I am glad for anyone who survives the de-magnification process and can keep moving on, even so, movement is still happening standing still, Time is the illusion here and spiritual impatience from others is not going to get them closer to seeing where they’re at and not by being ‘there’, though reconciling my own tick-magnets will help them, one way or another, far ahead of nervousness, IMO…

I used to be very ‘nervous’ (fervor-ish) for Robert’s ‘boys’, only to realize later that the nervousness towards others lives was an armoring device keeping my consciousness and conscience apart from one another, i.e., feeling RIGHT to fight for the injustice suffered by others without any idea of the ‘how’ it was specifically me being so ritualistic in this endeavor and not everyone on the planet: live, swim, breathe and eat your own shit for one night (or more) and you can gain ‘right perspective’ on ‘smelly things’…

Being sent to hell is one thing, going there voluntarily, well, it’s a whole different snowball…

By Nature you’re a quiet and powerfully discerning spirit (these aspects, IMO, are primarily set into us for our own good ‘first’, not someone’s else’s first so to ‘feel’ that they are the ‘first’ thing in your life:

then that weird thing happens where your second line has become a make-believe outfit for your costume-hidden REAL first line and third line is simply a brighter brand of red lipstick, while REAL second line is waiting below the chin (is it not odd that there’s something within all of us that can assume the position of treating others better than ourselves? Or wishing upon their stars for them, while they haven’t even voiced which one they want yet?

Something has a part of your soul in its mouth, like bubble gum and is blowing bubbles with you, IMO: everything we write is no more than ourselves standing in a sauna scribbling on a huge mirror with a finger; now, whose finger we believe it to be is another story…

As you know, I wish all of us great healing and those ‘boys’ too: I just ‘hope’ that we can align ourselves by our own autonomous crooked spine (I am working on my back too BTW) and not think ourselves ‘straightened out’ by having voluntarily set someone else’s ‘disks’ who was just reaching down to pick up a dime for someone’s thought…
__________________

L.t.y.a.

And

“I expect nothing more than to bore most of you…”

As a friend, I would ask you, ‘Are you expecting only boredom from yourself in writing on the blog’ (?) To me, this is what it may be that you’re writing (in between the lines) (?) Or not…

288. ton - May 23, 2008

nigel 284
i posted something to elena (and others) at about 280 which shows up here on my computer, but not on the “sidebar” which probably indicates that it is undergoing “mediation” or some kind of scrutiny by the webmaster… the post had two links in it and that may be the reason for the “disconnect” or interruption. not sure, but continuity in the sequence of these postings could make a difference in interpretation/ perception of the message on the part of the reader.
all the best.
c

289. unoanimo - May 23, 2008

Correction ~

“…something Arthur would most likely already know.”

______________

… something NIGEL would most likely already know…

…:)8

290. veramente - May 23, 2008

270. somebody
One thing I don’t understand is how the current teaching can make sense to the intelligent and educated people in FOF. Am I missing something? ………….

1 The six stools coming from the rhinoceros represent “mental defilement”
————
This is quite laughable if not tragic to observe how the so called intelligent and educated people in the FOF can believe this pure shit.
Poop divination.

291. unoanimo - May 23, 2008

It’s springtime people!!! Pull God’s tail and have some fun ~

~ BEYOND the stool ~

“The Tattooed Jaguar, dating from Mexico, circa 1400 BC…

The Tennessee Diviner, dating from Europe circa AD 700…

The Realm of the Dead posture, from fifth century BC Germany…”

___________________________

The Tattooed Jaguar

“Kneel with your legs spread so your knees form a ‘V’ and your right big toe crosses over the left big toe. Rest your buttocks on your heels and bend forward slightly at the waist.

Curl your hands the amount needed to hold an imaginary medium-sized candle. Place your curled left hand palm down on your left knee and your right hand on your right knee, tilted upwards slightly (so if you were actually holding a candle, it would point at 45 degrees towards your other leg). Keep your elbows relaxed and slightly bow your arms. Face forward with eyes closed.

The Tennessee Diviner

Begin by kneeling, then raise your right knee and place your right foot sole down on the floor beside your left knee. Continue to kneel on your left knee, with buttocks resting on your heel.

Place your left hand palm down on the left knee and right hand palm down on the right knee, but slightly to the left of the kneecap.

Cock your head very slightly to the right as if wanting to look over your right knee. Keep your eyes closed and protrude your tongue a little between slightly parted lips.

The Realm of the Dead

Stand with feet parallel about 6 inches apart and point your toes straight ahead. Keep your knees slightly bent.

Place your right hand over your waist with the ball of the hand covering your navel and your middle finger extending along the waistline. Your left arm is against your chest, with the palm of the hand against your chest so it rests just above your right arm and parallel to it. Keep your upper arms relaxed and close to your body. Face forward with your eyes closed.”
____________

L.t.y.a.

292. unoanimo - May 23, 2008

P.S.

Holding these postures for a (minimum) of fifteen minutes seems to be the standard (?)

293. veramente - May 23, 2008

288. unoanimo

The Tattooed Jaguar, I had to google it!
———–
“TRANCE EXPERIMENTS
In my own experiments, I asked students in my shamanic classes to try a few of these ritual postures, selected from the 39 in Belinda Gore’s book, describing only the positions themselves, not the purpose they were supposed to serve, to see what experiences these students had. The ones I chose were:

• The Tattooed Jaguar, dating from Mexico, circa 1400 BC, which is considered a shapeshifting posture that gives us a view of reality from the perspective of a Big Cat. Through it, in Gore’s words, “many individuals become sensitised to the non-human world and grow in rapport with the animals”.

• The Tennessee Diviner, dating from Europe circa AD 700, is a divinatory posture which puts people in touch with a spirit who offers advice on ritual. This spirit can be “short tempered, brief and even cryptic” but is “generous with exacting details” concerning specific healing rituals.

• The Realm of the Dead posture, from fifth century BC Germany, mediates journeys into the spirit world, where “The traveller… begins to rise into a new form and a new life”.

By Ross Heaven, therapist, workshop leader, and the author of several books on shamanism and healing, including Darkness Visible, the best-selling Plant Spirit Shamanism, and Love’s Simple Truths.

294. veramente - May 23, 2008

281. ton – May 23, 2008
ok, so i’m staying up past my usual bedtime, can’t sleep…. i hope that someone does not accuse me of “skipping my meds” …
———–
I am up late as well… just wanted to tell you I appreciate your voice here, in a few days I will be traveling away without a computer (lucky me? : ), a break from the square faced “monster”.

Keep up with the beat!

295. WhaleRider - May 23, 2008

ton:
Trust me, there is nothing light about Haldol. It’s not the recreational drug of choice for anyone I’ve ever met.

Personally, I would not suggest anyone stop taking their psych meds unless I was committed to be there with them long term for the fallout.

yesri baba:
Rather than having to chose between saving a priceless human life versus saving a priceless piece of art from a burning house, IMO the bigger test of a follower’s bind devotion is whether they sacrifice themselves upon the funeral pyre of their master or choose to save themselves.

296. lauralupa - May 23, 2008

Gratitude to turn on the computer today and to find all your comments… plus the wonderful plat du jour at Reality Sandwich.
From my lap to your laptop, I hope you lap it up, dear kitties and jaguars

http://www.realitysandwich.com/mutiny_soul

297. nigel harris price - May 23, 2008

O.K. you late-to-bedders, early-risers (such as me), and no-sleepers, count me in on your quest. Many of you will be expeiencing altered states if you continue with sleep-deprivation (it is actually of concern that hypo-manic folks do not keep running ‘on empty’ until they fall down in the street, at the wheel of their car or anywhere else dangerous!). Whalerider – you are correct about Haloperidol (Haldol) – it IS(!) powerful and not to be messed with. Personally, if I suffer sleep-deprivation and am irregular with my meds, I have a pint or two of Real Ale or Guinness – wholesome drinks – and ‘goof-off’ with my friends at the local pub. A good laugh and “It may be beer is best” (G K Chesterton ‘The Secret People’). Also, nicotine is a ‘switcher’ drug, in which I now indulge again. It softens the ‘snaps’ across the synaptic gaps. If you want information about psychosis (I mad be totally mad, but I am not evil!), ask a psychotic – the practising doctors and psychiatrists are doing just that -practising! Be in control of whatever mind-altering drugs you take. Like I said before on the blog – serendipity and synchronicity are fine but I am unnerved by sensory anomolies. But the Now is always Now – Eternal and Unchanging as our Common Creator – Male/Female or Both Together. What I actually got on the site to post was from the ‘Field of Dreams’ movie (1988, with Kevin Costner). The Terence Mann character is quoted as saying “There comes a time, when all the Cosmic Tumblers have clicked into place and the Universe opens itself up for a few seconds to show you what is possible”. That time is now, and REB and the so-called time-conquerers in the FOF have had their day. Yours, as always…..Nigel.

298. nigel harris price - May 23, 2008

Hi Lauralupa
Got on to the Reality Sandwich thing. Close to home! But did not Whitman pen “To see how much you can take……….to mount the muzzle cannon…………to be indeed a God”. Bless you and your lap……….Nigel.

299. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 23, 2008

269, 281 and 286 are newly moderated.

Ton: No, I haven’t ever visited either a Reichian, or a Bionergetic therapist, although Bionergetics is a very attractive concept to me. I take it that your question was meant as a recommendation.

300. arthur - May 23, 2008

Lauralupa (295),

I went to the sandwich shop. Reminded me of some things. One time I wanted to “relate” to the beatniks and grew a goatee. An authority figure I was under came from behind me and said, “shave that damn thing off”!

The Hippies came along and being blasted to bits by authority figures my thought about hippies was, “they’re asking for trouble”. So, instead of joining up, I hid. It was me against them quitely. Sort of like right now.

I had a decent job once. However, I was heavy into “The Theory of Celestial Influence” when my work ethic started slipping. One co-worker told another about me, “he doesnt know how to play the game”.

I ran into a female friend at a bar one night and announced, “I’m not going to work (for a living) any more”.
She responded, “what a shame”. At the time I didnt care if I starved to death as long as I wasnt “forced to play the game”.

Then I met the fellowship of Friends. It wouldnt have lasted because I wasnt Fellowship material and I would eventully succumbed to outing myself for being, “forced to play the game”.

In a sense Girard Haven and the Inner Circle did me a favor.

301. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion - May 23, 2008

Moving to the next board:

NEW DISCUSSION


Sorry comments are closed for this entry

%d bloggers like this: