Fellowship Of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion – Part 104 June 25, 2011
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Welcome to the newest page of the Fellowship of Friends/Pathway To Presence Discussion.
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The largest meeting point for former and current members of the Fellowship of Friends is the Greater Fellowship, you can sign up to the Greater Fellowship community and connect with former members of the Fellowship of Friends as well as some current members here.
To visit “Living Presence”, the newly created web site for recruiting new members to the Fellowship;
http://www.livingpresence.com/
For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/respectively.
To access the Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/djindjin/petition.html
For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.
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Fellowship of Friends - Living Presence Discussion 
For your information ~
The below information was first posted on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog on June 14, 2011, shortly after the following statement was posted:
“I heard from a reliable source that Robert has AIDS.”
******************************************************************************
Let’s hope that Robert Burton’s sexual partners and their sexual
partners have the good sense to get a free HIV test. Are you at
risk for having contracted HIV? If you have been sexually active
while being a Fellowship of Friends Student with another Student,
even if in a non-monogamous relationship*, why not get tested?
The closest FREE HIV TEST for women AND men nearest to
Oregon House is 35 miles away (via CA 20 E) in Grass Valley.
The Clinic at Women’s Health Specialists
120 Richardson St . Suite A
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(800) 714-8151
This location offers a walk-in, no appt. necessary, free HIV test
Mondays 10:30 am – 5:30 pm
and
Wednesdays 12 pm – 6 pm
Qualifications for the free test:
Income under $1,800 a month
Under age 55
Men – Have NOT had a vasectomy
Women- Have not had a hysterectomy or ‘tubes tied’
* If you are part of or have been associated with a Fellowship
of Friends centre in another city and think you may be at risk,
try Googling Free HIV test and the name of your city. Call
and ask for a referral for a free HIV test clinic.
May everyone test negative and be HIV free! Good luck!
* Not everyone shares with their partner, girlfriend, boyfriend,
wife, or husband who they’ve had sex with. Sometimes one
is not told.
*************************************************************************
This apparently is not the place to let sleeping dogs lie, and man
Cheers! do they lay.
Correction:This apparently is not the place to let sleeping dogs lie, and man This apparently is not the place to let sleeping dogs lie, and man do they lay.
Cheers!
Not my day. lol. Cheers!
Jeez, Wendy. I am not tyring to scare you, what a twisted percetpion. Besides, if your ex was infected, then you have to be concern as well. The simple guidance that J.D have given you are 100% correct.
And let me explain you something very simple here.
Yes, that is true that the center directors are choosing the best once for the dirty bob, but a dirty bob is careless when the supply of his goodies sometimes geting low, in which case, he takes what´s there. And as I said, take a camera and spend the day near the Academy on the Valentine´s Day. Then you really will get scared.
And as the Agent said, everybody gets fucked in the fof in someway, I may add that a majority are getting fucked quite literely.
oh and by the way, Wendy, do you think it is so hard to imagine a person geting HIV who rolling on orgies without a condoms on a daily basis? What makes you to resist so much that he well may be infected? Is it such unrealistic claim all things considered? Or you may not aware of what is truly going on in his harem? If not, then I suggest get educated first.
the only thing which surprising to me is to hear about boby gon an HIV only now and not 10-20 years ago.
considering the unprotected sex in such a quantities on daily basis – an HIV should be expected long ago, this is simply logical.
Ah, so soon forgotten or never read at all:
103/117. associated press – June 16, 2011
‘In the 1990′s, about the time of the Tr-y B-zzb– scandal (alleged REB sexual contact with a minor – settled out-of-court, for a possible $5 million), the HIV/AIDS issue was of significance and some medical professional(s) (doctor(s)), who would be ‘in the know’ and able to advise on safety precautions, were ignored and they, subsequently, departed their Fellowship of Friends membership.
I hope that clarifies.’
Robert E. Burton, a Northern California dwelling dandy and founder of the Living Presence / Fellowship of Friends cult. He has described himself as a Goddess in a man’s body. The name of the “nerve center” of his operations, or headquarters of his religion, or “palace” of his secluded fiefdom, or “personal harem” (however you choose to think of this unusual location) changes with his philosophical whims…among other names, it has been known as Apollo at Renaissance, and The Galleria…handsome fellow!
(Updated from #67-119)
Open Letter to Robert Earl Burton:
Rumor has it that you are in bad health, physically and mentally. While I don’t wish ill fortune on anyone, having things go wrong is an excellent chance to review your life, on where you’ve come from, and where you are now. From my direct experience of you, I would guess that any reflections you may be having are heavily larded with self–pity rather than gratitude.
Poor Man Number Eight.
You have quite a load on your back, don’t you? For example, you once told me that one of the burdens of being a ‘conscious being’ is that you make about 500 decisions a week concerning your ‘students’ and your ‘school’. Quite an obligation, but I guess it helps that you know all the answers and are such a decisive fellow. How lucky for your followers that you spend so much time minding their business for them. I suppose it’s for the best; they don’t have to think for themselves, and thinking for themselves is dangerous for you.
And what do you expect in return?
On the surface, just the usual adoration or fear, endless opportunities for sex, and of course the unlimited shopping. I say ‘endless’ and ‘unlimited’ because, you being immortal and all that, the need is going to continue, in one form or another, forever, isn’t it?
So, lets have a look underneath the surface. What drives you?
It would be nice if everyone would just acknowledge you as “the brightest light in 2,000 years” wouldn’t it? You say this so often, it must be really important to you. But I have to ask, though it is so obvious to you, why isn’t it obvious to everyone else? I know you claim that you are so elevated that we mere mortals cannot appreciate your lofty ‘consciousness’, but all the other reputed ‘conscious beings’, including most of the 44 who were supposed to be your friends and allies, left behind significant traces when they exited this plane. At this rate, you will have left behind a worthless, mostly ghost–written book and some unofficial and also worthless sexual records.
It would be nice if you could stop being so needy for sex, huh? Then you could get on with the rest of your day and your life without constantly thinking about how you’re going to get more dick. It is a bit sad that the never-ending quest is permanent, since you are already ‘crystallized’, together with all your baggage. Some baggage! And it is sadder that the next orgasm isn’t going to provide the relief you seek, let alone the next thousand or ten thousand. And sadder still that your need is going to continue when you drop your body, and your nerve endings are no longer available to stimulate.
It would be nice if you could live your life without the support of drugs, wouldn’t it? It must be awful knowing that none of your partners actually desire you, that they only have erections because you make them take Viagra or because they stimulate themselves to simulate desire. And imagine being truly calm inside, instead of the fake calm of tranquilizers. Imagine having self-control, to not have to reach out for this pill or that to mask your emptiness, imagine not having pills control you.
It would be nice if you could bear to be alone and live with yourself and your thoughts, wouldn’t it? You’ve never slept alone in forty years, and you surround yourself with human company every waking hour, yet you’ve never reached another human, nor has a human reached you. And yet, you are going to die alone. And at the moment of death (not before, because you are a coward), you will have to face the truth. You are dying loveless and unloved after living a worthless life. Less than worthless, because you have left behind many people who have suffered as a result of your stay on earth, who have suffered because of your mental illnesses and colossal weaknesses. Less than worthless, because you have left behind a body of deluded followers, who must suffer needlessly as they in turn have to rediscover the truth about themselves and their situation. Less than worthless because you never earned your keep, you fed off others your entire life, and you never repaid the debt you owed for the gift of your life. Less than worthless because you led the life of a parasite life and never contributed anything to the common weal. Less than less than worthless, because you not only never tried to repair the immense damage you caused, but you never even acknowledged it or felt pity or remorse.
It would be nice if you could face death with equanimity, wouldn’t it? Then you wouldn’t have to build monuments to your ego. You wouldn’t have to keep on and on with the story that you are the founder of the next civilization, that your memory will be revered, your prophecies were useful and accurate, that you had access to secret wisdom, and that humanity will be grateful for your contributions. Wouldn’t that be a relief?
You know, if you could drop that “brightest light in 2,000 years” (a.k.a. I’m the most important person in the world, and if only everyone would recognize that, then I’d be happy) gig, then you could see yourself as you actually are:
Empty, lonely and frightened. A complete slave to your weaknesses, needs and lusts.
The truth is, when all is said and done, very few agree with your opinion of yourself after they have had a close look at you. And since there is no way to quench your fears or your desires, you’ll never, ever be happy.
Actually, you’re no different from the rest of us poor shmucks, deep down you want love, approval and appreciation, but your gigantic ego will never countenance being so ordinary and human.
If you ever come to realize this before your death, it will be some meltdown, won’t it?
12. Ames Gilbert – June 26, 2011:
‘At this rate, you will have left behind a worthless, mostly ghost–written book and some unofficial and also worthless sexual records.’
Better check the Guinness Book of World Records on the ‘some unofficial and also worthless sexual records’ thing.
Otherwise, a very well written and appropriate posting, thanks.
Page103/#142. Agent 45 – June 22, 2011
RE: 107 Reposting Repost
Just to clear Richard Focazio’s name, to the best of my knowledge he got it the old fashioned way – prostituting in S.F. in the very early 1980’s. He was quite gay and therefore unfit for the “Boy Cottage” shenanigans. On occassion, he was a very good hairdresser too. (R.I.P.)
Sorry, Agent 45, Wouldn’t You Like To Know here.
Re: Richard
I stand by what I posted earlier and
107. Bares Reposting – June 16, 2011
reposted:
”Wouldn’t you like to know’ personally knew or knows
3 persons that stated their personal experience was
having directly contracted HIV from RB or from participating
in Fellowship of Friends style sex activity.
1. Richard F.; now dead. . .
(There could be others.)
Now, they could have been mistaken.
Or, it needs to be proven.
Cause of death could have
been officially something else.’
This was not stated to sully reputations, so there is nothing to be ‘cleared;’ IMHO. It was facts so that people could exercise appropriate precations. HIV/AIDS is transmitted in many different manners.
As to R.F., I knew him well, continuously, from 1977 until his death. He was a very versatile person: an excellent chef (he ran a restaurant on FoF property for many years), superb waiter/host/server/maître d’, professional hairdresser for men and women, an impeccable dresser, a rather principled person of good character and always did what his teacher (REB) asked of him (as best as I could tell). He was married to someone of the opposite gender for some time – not one of those marriages of convenience. But that does not mean he did not participate in, what is now known in HIV/AIDS parlance, risky behaviour, both in and out of FoF. (From epidemiological perspective this is important to know.) He was not excluded from the Robert Burden of being a ‘boy toy’ – just not one of those heterosexual male conquests to convert to oral sex with Robert Burden – there was plenty of other dilly-dallying going on. In brief, he was profoundly the essence of his type, venus-mercury, a bit bi-polar and moody at times. I learned a good deal from him and his attitude of gratitude and willingness to do the Work.
It´s a powerful letter Ames, would you consider to actually mail it to him?
I have to say honestly to every one who have been contributing to this blog for the past 4 years, that it will be my great sadness if burton will die just like that without facing a trial. I truly, deeply and sincerly wish him to suffer for a long time behind the bars before he actually dies. This criminal must end his misurable life in jail, not in the luxory surrouned by yang dicks.
Reb has been in jail most of his life, if not all of it.
They are self-made bars.
They are imaginary bars.
They are magical bars.
He is an addict, always was an addict, and probably will always be an addict until the day he dies.
The main difference between Reb and I is that I know the above is true and he does not.
Fantasy can be a fabulous tool or it can be a death-trap for the body when there is nobody home.
Eat the chalk circle or eat shit, to eternity and beyond if it exists.
Cheers!
Yes, Renald, metaphoricly its true. But all of it is nothing in comparisson to real jail.
If burtn will die as it is without a trial, his false legacy will be continued by his monkesy, but if he dies in jail – there will be the end of it.
And to all fellowship insiders who are reading this blog now:
Choose your side, because when FBI and IRS will start digging thru your shit, everything will stink worse than you can imagine. If you have any valid information about the fraud and other crimes comiteted by burton and his monkeys, you better lay it out now because if you wont, you will be looked as parten in crime. Dont kid yourself that burton is above the law and gods are behids him. the only reason why burton still is not in jail, is because we, the ex members were not comunicating as we are now. it is a different story now and we all know that burton is a melicious coward who is shaken now hoping we will go away.
I believe that the authorities are coming for him as we speak and his trial is near.
Just as I said, choose your side, you wether on the side on the truth and justice or you on the side of fraud, corruption and evil.
The Beast of Burden
Head hung hypnotizingly to one side,
Incessant drooling from his mug,
On and on it comes, on and on it goes.
“ What did you say dear?
What do I fear dear?
Sorry I can`t hear dear.
Oh that; going to the moon dear.
Fear it will be soon dear.“
Better he`d been left a lifeless lump of clay
Blames his mother to this very day.
A donkey is a donkey, an ass an ass.
Always slow, never fast.
The beast of burden imagines life as a human.
Rather than the present one as a sad old clod.
“ Come to me, come to me.
Please sweet boy come to me.
More, more, yes there on the floor.
And you dear, please lock the door.
Look at my lips between his hips.
Never mind my eyes feeding you`all lies.
You are nothing but fools, nothing but tools.
I am Apollo, you must just follow.
Pass me the mouthwash, dear.
I am done.“
“ Dream on, dream on!“ said God to the clod.
“ I`ll give you a whippin` you`ll always remember.
There is no time for idle fancy.
Keep you eyes on the road and stop when I tell you.“
Rumors have it that despite God`s absolute reluctance
The dream of the beast came to be true.
Rumors have it that despite the beast`s persistence,
He`s gonna have one fuck of a day to rue.
Cheers!
Ill Never Tell (#104-14 or thereabouts),
I think that the folks at Guinness Book of World Records try to stick to only the ‘worthwhile’ records. They make little mention of the unworthwhile ones; I tried searching for, “Most dick sucked in 24 hours by a Man Number 8”, but they were strangely reticent. Ditto for “Fartherest reached by small–fisted Russian male into alimentary canal of ‘conscious’ teacher”, and others.
Let me be the last to deny Burton credit, I’m sure he has busted many local records in his faux–French–gilded–really, really–over–the–top–masterpiece–of–bad–taste residence. And I’m sure some of these also hold for Oregon House, or Yuba County, or even large swathes of rural Northern California. Presumably Leonardo or some of the other ’44 conscious beings’ take the time from their busy schedules planning the destruction of mankind to offer assistance and encouragement.
But Guinness did inform me that the male scaly cricket (Ornebius aperta, from Australia) can copulate more than 50 times in three to four hours, all with the same female. If Burton learns of this, he may expire in a hissy fit of jealousy.
Surelyujest (# 103-144),
when you say, “This comment will be confusing to those not following a certain arcane argument, but here it is anyway”, perchance you are referring to the bloviating Greg Goodwin, master of self–delusion? If so, you are spot on, in my opinion. I once looked over his blog and sent him a general review, also copied to this blog (#90-118).
Wendy( Part 103, # 101. June 15, 2011), Your comment re: silentpurr 85’s post was insightful,
“Whenever the whiff of a rumor sets off a series of blog lectures, speculation, and sermonizing, it undermines the credibility of this venue. We all know that AIDS and other STDs are an ongoing risk at Apollo, and it’s good to warn people – but not in a rumor-driven avalanche. That just convinces the potential audience – that is, the current FOFers – that the blog hyperbolizes and promotes lies.”
Speaking of “credibility”: I have sometimes thought that the anonymity of some of the blog handles (names of people posting on the blog) contributes to an atmosphere of unaccountability. However, the upside of anonymous handles is that it gives a certain freedom of opinion-expressing. As for silentpurr’s # 85, it is probably important in some circumstances to defend one’s sources, when in the initial phase
when in the initial phase of volatile news.
Shirley: You mention lack of accountability, lack of credibility, hyperbole, sermonizing, and lies.
You’re referring to your concerns about Burton and the FOF, right?
Well look — FOFers have spent years learning how to believe lies, ignore the lack of accountability, listen to hyperbole, nod in agreement at the sermons, and share information that lacks all credibility and proof. If they are turning over a new leaf, that’s enormous progress.
The word “rumour”, incidentally, is code for the following in this case…
“This topic makes me very uncomfortable.”
I am very much of the opinion that the Open Letter from Ames will not reach Burton. If he hears hints of it, he will ignore them, and the minor psychopaths – H—n, T—–o, G—–n, H—–s etc will be given the task of a cover-up. I believe, on this blogsite, that we are appealing to the better nature and conscience of those who are having doubts about the worth of their membership, and want support in their efforts to disentangle themselves from the FOF. Ames himself has said he sought specialist psychiatric help (as I did – actually, had to for my bipolar). I feel the road out is long and arduous, since our ‘beliefs’ have been shaken on leaving – but the benefits certainly outweigh these difficulties…..Nigel.
21 Shirley
22 Bryan
“This topic makes me very uncomfortable.”
I agree with Bryan here. It does look like this topic makes people quite uncomfortable.
Given all the facts, the possibility of dirty boby gets an HIV is as high as it possibly can and as I said before, the only thing which is suprising me is that it didn´t happened 20 years ago. So these kind of reactions by wendy and shirly are somewhat suspisious to me.
Are you girls working for the fof? Are you making your teaching payment on a damage control octave?
X-ray: “Are you girls working for the fof?”
No, I doubt it. But maybe you are.
Think about it. Your approach is flawless. Fellowship of Friends
members must cringe when they see your name on the page. They must close their browsers immediately and never come back.
But you know what, the cult doesn’t need to hire anyone. Many followers and former followers will do the job for free. It’s hard to acknowledge that one is being deceived. So the debunkers step forward willingly. The last thing anyone wants to admit is that they’re not being smart. And in the final analysis, joining a cult is not the smartest thing we’ve done in our lives. It’s hard to admit your lack of intelligence when your ego is wrapped up in a masters degree, or a successful business, or studying ancient Greece, Rome, and Egypt, making and selling olive oil, etc.
20. Ames Gilbert
20. Ames Gilbert
Oops, hit the wrong button.
Wow, we’ve been around that block many times. My memory must be going. Thanks for the reminder, I think I’ll step off that particular merry go round.
Yes, Im totally a fof insider, that´s why I paid to an attorney mr. Green to review the fellowship Petition which you may not even signed.
But maybe you right, maybe I should get the fuck out of here leaving you to deal with this crap yourself.
But Im not here for you, nor for anyone else. Im here only because I want to see burton in jail because this is where criminals like him belong. And those who see my name and close their browsers, are only hurting themselves.
btw, besides your comments here, what else have you done?
have you contacted authorities requesting an investigation?
XRay (#104-14 or thereabouts),
I’ve mailed the letter to Burton, c/o Box 100, O.H. I altered one paragraph, the one beginning; “It would be nice if you could bear to be alone . . .” to read, “It would be nice if you could bear to be alone and live with yourself and your thoughts, wouldn’t it? You’ve never slept alone in forty years, and you surround yourself with human company every waking hour, yet you’ve never reached another human, nor has a human reached you. But, you are going to die alone. And at the moment of death (not before, because in my opinion you are a coward), you will have to face the truth. You will be dying never knowing the difference between being adored for your position and being loved for yourself. You will be dying having never loved another human unconditionally, and so you will have lived a worthless life. Less than worthless, because you have left behind many people who have suffered as a result of your stay on earth, who have suffered because of your mental illnesses and colossal weaknesses. Less than worthless, because you have left behind a body of deluded followers, who must suffer needlessly as they in turn have to rediscover the truth about themselves and their situation. Less than worthless because you never earned your keep, you fed off others your entire life, and you never repaid the debt you owed for the gift of your life. Less than worthless because you led the life of a parasite and never contributed anything to the common weal. Less than less than worthless, because you not only never tried to repair the immense damage you caused, but you never even acknowledged it or felt pity or remorse.“
I also added words to the effect that I doubted the letter would reach him because of the system of filters in place, but if it did and he wanted to reply, he was welcome.
BTW, I think these filters are inevitable in any hierarchial system of authority. I was once waiting for Burton in an anteroom in the ‘Academy’ after being summoned to account for some behavior that attracted the attention of a minion over–anxious for approval. A wireless phone rang nearby. The attendant answered the phone, then it was passed through another four people in surrounding rooms before it was handed to Burton. At each layer, the message was repeated, a decision was made that it was worth passing on (e.g., a trained yet subjective filter was applied), and eventually the caller was deemed worthy of repeating the message for a last time to Burton himself, which happened just as he stood at the doorway. He listened, then gave a few brief orders, added some homily, handed the phone back, and turned to me. After telling me that “we don’t sit in the Egyptian chairs, dear”—and then sitting in one himself, he told me that he made 500 decisions a week for ‘his’ students, and that this was a sign of his consciousness. (I wrote more about this filtering process in #13-792 and #8-401, if you are interested.)
So, IMO, the chances are slim to zero that Burton will get the letter, and orders of magnitude slimmer that it will affect him enough to make changes. But presumably at least one follower will read the letter before consigning it to the round file? It’s worth a little trouble and 44 cents if the gist sticks in his or her mind, I’d say.
Ames…..
I say – keep chipping away at the ‘monument-al’ heirarchy; and I say to others – keep trying all you can to dismantle ‘the tangled web they (the FOFfers) weave, when first they practice to deceive’…..Nigel.
I am not sure if there are any present blog-posters who have enough money, but IGI (see below) would cause a real ‘brown underpants situation’ in the FOF…..
“INVESTIGATIVE GROUP INTERNATIONAL, INC.
Recognized Expertise – Specialized Services – Diverse Experience
IGI is a preeminent private investigation and corporate intelligence firm that has honed its world-class fact finding skills in a wide variety of complex legal, financial and governance situations spanning twenty-five years. IGI’s record of rising to challenging assignments while adhering to the highest ethical standards has built an unsurpassed reputation for professional excellence in the corporate, legal and financial communities.”
And, maybe, the FOF could hire this Defense Lawyer, if Goldman proves too ‘weedy’ for the job…..
Barry C. Scheck
Professor of Law and Director, Innocence Project
B.S., 1971, Yale University;
J.D., M.C.P., 1974, University of California at Berkeley
Teaching at Cardozo since: 1978
Specialties: Criminal law, forensic DNA
Recent Courses: Innocence Project – Forensic DNA Testing and Post-Conviction Relief, Trial Advocacy — Intensive Program (ITAP)
Professor Scheck is known for his landmark litigation setting standards for forensic applications of DNA technology. Since 1988, his and Peter Neufeld’s work in this area have shaped the course of case law across the country and led to an influential study by the National Academy of Sciences on forensic DNA testing, as well as important state and federal legislation. He and Neufeld coauthored with Jim Dwyer ‘Actual Innocence: Five Days to Execution and Other Dispatches from the Wrongly Convicted’. Professor Scheck is a commissioner on New York’s Forensic Science Review Board, a body that regulates all of the state’s crime and forensic DNA laboratories. He is first vice president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and serves on the board of the National Institute of Justice’s Commission on the Future of DNA Evidence. In addition to the work he has done through Cardozo’s Innocence Project, which has represented dozens of men who were exonerated through post-conviction DNA testing, Scheck has represented such notable clients as Hedda Nussbaum, O. J. Simpson, Louise Woodward, and Abner Louima. Prior to joining the Cardozo faculty, he was a staff attorney at the Legal Aid Society of New York.”
Ooh! I feel a televised lawcourt trial coming on…..Nigel.
X: I meant it partly as a compliment, though the other part was obviously too much sarcasm. Keep up the good work, and keep kicking some ass. I like it.
Ames: I would have thought it was completely a lost cause “reaching” that bastard, literally or figuratively. But I’m happy you’re trying.
Ames, I wish we there would more people like you speaking out.
I know how the crooked circles work. Remember those birthday card to dear teacher? Well, Im sure you know, but I will say it to those who doesn´t. All your birthday cards with checks attached per teacher request, were read by dorian! Can you imagine that? The guy who was trading vouchers for sex is reading your hearty cards where you express your love to your teacher who doesnt not give a shit about you or your love. His interes in checks only. But anyway, dorian was reading all those cards and tranfering a card to burton only if an amount was higher than a certain amount, which I don´t know what was that. But I know for fact that this is was going on. So Im pretty sure your letter wont reach burton for the obvious reason, BUT, and this important, this cock succer will know about this letter and will get frighten even more. The point here is to let him know that he is scary only for those stupid zombies who still are paying him money, but not to us. He need to know that we see him, we know him, we do not afraid of him and WE DOING ALL WE CAN TO PUT THIS bastard in jail! And your letter is telling him exaclty that without been even read.
I dont know if I make myself clear but it doesnt matter. What´s matter that there are people like you Ames who are tirelessly speeking out. I personaly respect you without knowing you, same goes for Bruce and others here.
Here is a recent newsletter about gurus. I do not agree with everything this John Cali says but I think this newsletter is worth pondering.
ISSN: 1539-431X
June 28, 2011
Conversation With Spirit and John Cali
Have you ever known anyone who unthinkingly and slavishly follows a particular teacher?
John Cali
It doesn’t even have to be a single individual. It could be an organization, a religion, a political party, etc. A common characteristic here is the follower’s belief that everyone who believes differently is wrong. I know, because I grew up in a church that taught exactly that.
Sometimes the guru, whether it be one individual or an organization, pressures followers into this wrong-headed thinking. A good modern-day example of that is James Arthur Ray, the guru who’s been charged with manslaughter in the deaths of three people in one of his sweat lodges.
Ray allegedly once said this:
“…no one can talk to God, for any reason, except a priest. And I AM GOD. If you talk to god for any reason, you immediately die.”
How’s that for wrong-headed thinking? Worse yet, his followers believed him. This is so contrary to everything Spirit and I have been saying for years, as have many other teachers.
Our society often perceives the followers of such gurus as Ray as “victims.” But are they really victims?
Since I’m without my main computer this week (see the news item in this week’s email), I’m repeating some of Spirit’s wisdom from a while back. They were talking specifically about the sweat lodge deaths.
Spirit
Whenever human dramas like this unfold the tendency is to find someone to blame. Certainly by the dictates of your legal system, James Arthur Ray may be found guilty.
But is there any real blame here?
We think not.
After all, those folks at the sweat lodge were there voluntarily. Some have characterized them as followers of Ray’s. Nonetheless they chose to be there. He did not force them.
From the soul perspective, from our perspective, there is no blame or guilt. There is only responsibility — the responsibility of each of you for yourself.
We suspect at least some of those sweat lodge participants had serious reservations about being there. Perhaps including those three who died. You all know, at some level of your awareness, when and how you are about to die.
While a charismatic leader such as Ray attracts many followers, those followers sometimes give their power away and follow the leader blindly. That is an abdication of responsibility for one’s self.
Being inspired by someone like Ray is fine. Following such a person blindly, while disregarding your own inner guidance, is not fine.
As tragic as this event is from your human perspective, there are no villains or victims. Everyone involved was a co-creator of this event. We are not being callous and hard-hearted here. We have the greatest compassion for those adversely affected.
However, the “bottom line,” if you will, is you all create your own experiences, every bit of those experiences.
The one and only true guide in creating what you want — and in avoiding what you do not want — is your own inner guidance. If you insist on becoming “addicted” to a “guru,” let that guru be yourself, your own inner guidance.
Listen to it. Trust it. It will never lead you astray.
Read more: http://www.greatwesternpublishing.org/weeklymessages.html#ixzz1QWxS7pf5
Ames,
your story about the phone call getting thru four people before getting to burton, have made me think since I´ve read it. it´s actually showing the incredibly inflated burtons ego and a sick power structure within the fof.
I think it was easier to get to Napoleon, than to burtn.
500 decisions a week?
well, this is why they are so stupid. good thing he doesn´t wipe their asses, but let me stop right here…
Maybe unbridled hatred will work wonders, but then I would have to think about the object of my revulsion more than I really want to.
And your revulsion will grow as you learn more facts, and as you learn more fact and understand the effect of them on others, you will not be able to help yourself but to put more efforts to send the queen to jail.
Renald (36), quoting from Cali:
“After all, those folks at the sweat lodge were there voluntarily. Some have characterized them as followers of Ray’s. Nonetheless they chose to be there. He did not force them…From the soul perspective, from our perspective, there is no blame or guilt. There is only responsibility — the responsibility of each of you for yourself.”
Cali might want to keep in mind that cult leaders rely on their followers to adopt the above described attitude.
If anyone states a concern about the cult leader or about the cult, they are generally admonished to “look inside themselves” and to “stop playing the victim” and to focus on their inner worlds, while paying less attention to the external realities that could victimize them. If they see something wrong, it must be that they’re “creating their own experience.” No one is really hurting them. They are only hurting themselves. If they would just change their attitude, it would change their experience within the cult to something positive.
But when a person perceives and acknowledges the destructive and criminal behavior within a cult, this is a healthy first step toward NOT playing the victim, and toward taking responsibility for themselves.
Ironically, cult leaders want them to believe just the opposite. They want to discourage the expression of complaints or dissent. Followers often remain psychologically trapped in cults because they are afraid to criticize anything outside of themselves. Cult leaders are very good at directing people inward, and redirecting them from anything external. They discourage activity — encourage passivity. But the impulse to question authority and articulate complaints is the only way out of the mental trap (and often this occurs only after leaving the cult).
When Cali writes that “We are not being callous and hard-hearted here,” they actually are. This tendency to downplay the suffering of others and the external causes of that suffering–suggesting is was something they brought on themselves without acknowledging the actions of the perpetrators–just sounds like the typical erosion of conscience that all of us could see occurring within the FOF. It sounds more like a mechanism to avoid facing uncomfortable truths about the world, and remain blissfully ignorant about another person’s suffering and the causes of it.
— If we are sincerely concerned about another person gaining the maturity to take responsibility tor themselves, and if we sincerely want to help them to avoid “playing the victim,” then turning a blind eye to the external realities — such as a sociopathic cult leader — is not going to serve them. You can turn inward and look for solutions inside, but if you don’t acknowledge the effects of the outside world, you will never be able to “look inward” quite enough.
Cults thrive on the passivity of their followers.
So, our 4th way practitioner extraordinaire and master logician descends to his normal mode of expression: the ad hominem. In the past, whenever anyone got too close to the truth, and pricked at the dense covering of belief that stands between the practitioner and himself (not to mention the world itself), he lashes out with abusive insults:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Abusive
re. 41 Bryan: “ When Cali writes that “We are not being callous and hard-hearted here,” they actually are. This tendency to downplay the suffering of others and the external causes of that suffering–suggesting is was something they brought on themselves without acknowledging the actions of the perpetrators–just sounds like the typical erosion of conscience that all of us could see occurring within the FOF.“
Erosion of conscience-NO. Erosion of common sense-Yes. Erosion of self-determination-Yes. Erosion of freedom-Yes. Playing poker with my life is bad enough but it is my doing. The fact that the chip leader is cheating though is never acceptable.
There is only so much that any sane person can just allow itself to contribute to. Then there comes a need for a change. That need may come from new information or it may also just come from seeing the next logical step for another. It does not matter. All that matters is that the person realize that a change is necessary for a rewarding life. One could technically adopt the same habits as the sociopath but I think that would be rare since it is very difficult for two people to co-exist under those conditions. One has to go. Maybe that is why a number of ex-students have left and started their own groups.
Cheers!
22. Bryan – That’s not what I meant, but some of the ensuing posts sent the discourse off on such a wild tangent that it didn’t seem worthwhile, at the time, to correct the misunderstanding. I was simply reflecting on the observation that when a rumor (versus a hard fact) sets off a lot of activity on the blog, that it might lessen the credibility of some of what’s posted on the blog. It was a general observation, not a specific one re: the subject at hand.
42. surelyujest re: Ad hominem/Abusive – Thank you. Always good to be reminded of logical fallacies in a venue where conflating frequently occurs.
Although silentpurr cannot say anything about the identity of her source perhaps there will be some other salient details given soon. I think that it would be better to be safe than sorry… If I were a Fellowship of Friends heterosexual man, I would not accept any sexual advances from The Teacher, Robert E. Burton. I do not regret posting the free HIV test information. I think that it’s important to know it. Question authority, people; this is your life.
Protecting the source of one’s information is something that journalists frequently deal with. If someone gives you information in confidence, you try to respect that confidence. If the information affects only the giver of the information, such as their having personal difficulties, then there should be no need to divulge that information to anyone else. (If you do, then you’re relying on your listener’s discretion.) However, if the information affects other people, then you need to weigh how you would distribute the information, and at the same time, protect your source.
As for HIV-testing: it’s no longer a stigma, at least in certain parts of the USA. Your primary care doctor (or Gyn, if you’re a woman) can test you for HIV as part of your routine check-up when you have your bloodwork done for everything else, or you can ask for it as a special test, outside of a routine check-up. I assume most of us know the basic information about HIV and AIDS, because it’s been 30+ years since it came out.
IMO, I do not think Robert has HIV/aids. Many students have been tested over the years due to other infections they had. Some people in the medical field still “visit” Robert.
If the fof in OH had more HIV/ Aids it would be know through the infectious disease reporting.
Using lots of drugs does not improve your immune system, he is probably now” paying” for his drug abuse as his health is declining.
A friend stopped by after an Oregon House visit, and told us the following; RB has left the country (US), IRS and Immigration are after him, he is currently in Italy. Also heard he is quite sick.
Anyone knows more about this?
If Robert E. Burton is indeed in Italy, perhaps the federal authorities finally caught up with the money laundering, tax, and immigration shenanigans; I would not be surprised…according to information posted on this blog, a lot of the Fellowship of Friends financial and legal practices were more than questionable. I think that in some tax fraud cases vehicles and land are confiscated and sold to pay past due taxes. The United States and Italy have an extradition treaty, by the way.
“Your primary care doctor (or Gyn, if you’re a woman) can test you for HIV as part of your routine check-up when you have your bloodwork done for everything else, or you can ask for it as a special test, outside of a routine check-up.” [Shirley, No. 44]
I wonder if the Fellowship of Friends has an on site primary care doctor for the Student residents in Oregon House? That would be a nice perk for those dedicated followers. If not and they don’t have health insurance or the funds to pay out of pocket for a test, there are free clinics. See my No.1 post above.
Keep in mind that Burton having HIV/AIDS would not automatically cause a huge, obvious outbreak of the disease. And if he has had HIV for years, symptoms would not necessarily be obvious to anyone.
What’s clear from some of the posts here is that many people won’t even consider the possibility that he has HIV or AIDS until they see dozens of followers with lesions and other obvious symptoms, or until they see Burton pass away, and with an obituary that describes the cause of death.
Think about it: Even if Burton keeled over tomorrow and that’s the last we heard from him, there’s no guarantee that any of us will ever receive evidence that he died of AIDS.
From what I can tell, the point of silentpurr’s post was to present a friendly warning to current members of the cult, and to anyone who is “dating” someone or married to someone within it: Think about what you’re doing.
The righteous indignation and the calls for proof “in this venue” and all of the rest are just further signs of cult indoctrination. Since I’m not silentpurr, I can’t make such a definite statement that he has AIDS or HIV. What I do know is that from everything I’ve heard and everything I’ve observed about Burton, it would be wise for people take silentpurr’s comments seriously.
Get a grip bloggers. All you have on REB’s illness, departure from US to Italy, and the authorities being after him are nothing but speculations. This blog deserves better than mere gossip on top of gossip.
REB travels abroad all the time.
Let’s please stay focused on the task at hand which is, as Whalerider used to say, “to empty the victims pool.” Some here want nothing short of seeing REB in jail. Fine. The moderate among us have in mind the well-being of those students in FoF who need to find their way out. (Incidentally, this exodus from FoF seems to come in waves and there may not be another one for some time.)
BTW, the Immigration Services investigated FoF in 2007 (or thereabout) and at least one hundred students living at Apollo illegally were sent back to their country of origin. In other words, the investigation has already happened so don’t waste your time on that.
What then can we do, you may ask. Well, it depends on your approach, I would say. For me, the decision to leave was not short of a miracle; the grace of god, the universe, special spirits, the awakening of conscience…your choice. How can we compete with that when we try to convince our friends and spouses still in FoF to see the truth that we saw. Ultimately, they will have to see it for themselves. And when/if they do, it would be our job be there to support them.
What Burton said to entice male students to have sex with him…..
“C-influence want us to be close – I am not writing the play of Robert Burton.”
“Do not throw away this chance to be close to your conscious teacher.”
“It is beneficial to your evolution to have a relationship with me.”
“Share these moments with me and you will advance.”
“We are all getting closer, aren’t we.” (spoken during group sex)
Sounds like one big Fourth of July Garage Sale.
The garage goes too.
Cheers!
Thanks Josiane .
What to do…if all fails there is Hono’ponopono.
I love you
You are part of my world
Please forgive me
Thank you.
Great video
He is funny too and love the no- nonsense approach. Great vacuum cleaner or small one all 9 are worth your time.
50. Re: Italy – I was also thinking that it might just be a coincidence, if RB happens to be traveling abroad and there might be an agency looking into something or other, so why get excited about 2 possibly unconnected dots.
49. Taking silentpurr’s comments seriously – In this day and age, it is common sense and prudent to get tested for HIV whenever one has changed partners, or has deep suspicions that one’s partner is or was sleeping around with someone else. In non-FF situations, the question is usually about trust, and whether the trust has broken down between you and your partner.
In the FF, RB’s activities (which I have not experienced firsthand) are supposedly so far-reaching and quantitative that it boggles the mind to think that any one in that kind of contact with RB would be reluctant to be tested for HIV. Even so, despite my saying earlier that there isn’t that much stigma anymore in certain parts of America, it remains true that one doesn’t just casually ask one’s doctor to test one for HIV. However, it is not like it was 20 years ago, where you went to your local Dept of Health, and you were an anonymous number (to preserve your identity). My recollection is that the stigma included your inability to get proper health care coverage, or you might be fired from your job, and so on. It is probably a better situation now for those who find they are HIV-positive, but it might remain a large burden to find adequate ongoing medical care, etc. It’s also not like the old-fashioned STD’s that are painful and inconvenient, but can be treated and probably cured. By the way, just a detail, but a nurse once told me that if one was transmitted HIV, that it might not show up as positive for up to 6 months.
To be surprised from possibility that IRS, FBI or INS are aftr burton is just like to be surprised that burton has an HIV.
Who does not know about tax fraud in fellowship?
Who does not know about immigration fraud in fellowship? Take Asaf´s case for example.
Who does not know about reckless perversive sex life of burton?
The authorities are monitoring this blog for certainty.
Now, I am not saying that he has an HIV, and I am not saying that he ran away either, but I am saying that all these possibility are 100% logical and should be happening sooner or later.
And yes Josine, I WANT TO SEE BURTON IN JAIL BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE CRIMINALS LIE HIM BELONGES.
Your moderate approach is only promoting crimes. It letting criminals like burton to get away with all he´ve done to people. He must be brought to trial and he WILL be brought to trial and fortunatly there are a lot of ANGRY ex fofers to bring that about.
Just found this on the internet:
http://robertburtonpervertrapist44.blogspot.com/
“The ‘Fellowship of Friends’ is a cult run to serve the concepts perpetuated by its teacher, Robert Burton, posited in the guise of ‘The Fourth Way’, the occult mystical system expounded by George Gurdjieff, Peter Ouspensky and Rodney Collin, amongst others. It has long since failed to offer the possibilities for which many gave years of service to: the idea of becoming a deeper, more sensitive, more alive human being, awakening in the fullness of self-evident truth, through conscience, consciousness and efforts to be present with consideration to others. However, since its earliest days, the overriding concept is that ‘reality’ dictated by the ‘Beloved Teacher’ (Burton), of whom no question may be asked but carefully screened ones. Amongst the ranks of students, his behavior must be regarded as exempt from criticism; as to criticize is to succumb to ‘ones lower self’. The Fellowship of Friends has warped around the ego of its ‘teacher’ and his chief interpreter/apologist, Girard Haven – a man of similarly, sadly warped discipleship.
“A malignancy runs deep through the ‘Fellowship of Friends’ towards everything that is not regarded as belonging to the aims of ‘the Fellowship of Friends’ and ‘awakening in the Fellowship of Friends’, including an individuals psychology, mannerisms, ways of dress, preferred music and other tastes, and in short, anything that may constitute in its group-think that which belongs to the rapidly enlarging sense of a ‘lower self’, defined by the Teacher Robert Burton and his legion of willing assistants…”
“…Whilst large sums of money circulate around the Fellowship, in reality it is a spiritually bankrupt and arid regime of selfishness and immorality, a desert in which those lost within imagine a vineyard, distaining the water of truth for promises of revelation in times to come that never do and never can. It’s a mass of subjective and exploitative lies, and what makes all of this so funny, and so tragic, is that it’s participants regard themselves as partaking of an ‘objective’ truth on a path of emancipation from delusion…”
Spreading rumors, believing in rumors, reacting with outrage to rumors, adding rumors to the rumors, masturbating on rumors, fantasizing while masturbating on the rumors, giving advice about rumors, reacting to the advice given about rumors, ignore the rumors and continue doing what they ‘re doing… everybody’s right! Everyone is doing his/her/their own thing.
Are we sure that “the task at hand is to empty the victims pool”? What is really “the well-being of those students in FoF who need to find their way out”? Why do they have to find their way out since all they really want is to keep their way in? You know it, I know it, they don’t: everybody believes he/she/they are right!
“Let’s please stay focused on the task at hand which is, as Whalerider used to say, “to empty the victims pool.”
There are readers I have in mind as I write here…they are gullible, naive, “young” Students who I’ve never met, and also old friends, “old” Students, who I am amazed to think remain by Robert E. Burton’s side, such as Ge*$$rey R*wl@nd, and R@nd@ll R*ckw**d.
The Fellowship is sinking as we post here, folks! Save yourselves while you can. Don’t indulge in magical thinking practices and wait for “a sign” or some such malarkey…read the writing on the wall. It’s clear that “Something’s rotten in Denmark.”
J.D
´´Why do they have to find their way out since all they really want is to keep their way in?´´
And thats the point. That´s why for I droped the idea to ´´help´´ other students to leave. They dont want to leave, they want to stay. So let them stay, it´s their choice. We not after them. We after the root of all evil in the cutl, robert burton.
http://robertburtonpervertrapist44.blogspot.com/
“…Robert’s homosexuality might be one reason why the state of California has desisted from any action against him, as the category of male rape is still a relatively new one and California is noted for its tolerance of different lifestyles. Or it may be that The Fellowship of Friends, and it headquarters, Apollo, where Robert Burton resides most of the time, is one of the biggest tax contributors to the area around it, Yuba County, which is fairly poor for the state as a whole, and thus the county and State turns a blind eye to this criminality.
“During a period of over two decades of abuse, there is no knowing how many young men he has raped and discarded as of no further use to him. His abuse is often undertaken with a kind of mechanical sterility as though he were conducting an operation. He has arranged marriages for these men in order to legitimize his continued abuse of them, and they have in turn acted callously, sometimes violently towards their arranged partners. To them Robert is providing them with an opportunity to ‘work with feminine dominance’. He has said to victims that he is ‘a goddess in a male body’ in order to further confound his victims, who at any rate regard him as the living exemplar of the truth they have already, by then, paid dearly for. His favorite activity is that of ‘milking’, which he believes yields him a ‘divine food’ that he can transform into higher consciousness, the better to lead his flock. Or else, he is just a confused pervert with narcissistic-personality disorder, possibly brought about by the alleged abuses of his childhood…”
58. Golden Veil “ There are readers I have in mind as I write here…they are gullible, naive, “young” Students who I’ve never met, and also old friends, “old” Students, who I am amazed to think remain by Robert E. Burton’s side, such as Ge*$$rey R*wl@nd, and R@nd@ll R*ckw**d.“
The sticky glue is habit. Habit builds upon habit, neurologically.
Addiction is powerful. Diet in every sense of the word is stuck in place and the only way to change it is by providing something which promises to be better.
Like newly hatched baby birds, students clamour with open beaks for more of Burton`s nonsense. In a way I can`t fault Burton for continuing to dump more and more into them. He does it by habit or addiction and they receive it for the same reason. It makes them happy. Probably many came from an existence which they can no longer stand or handle. To them `life` has nothing to offer them. At least this is one of their habits of thought.
We say that they are being sucked in by a charlatan. Well maybe so but they would only be getting sucked in by another were it not him.
Yes they might have a rude awakening someday but they then will possibly only look for another with the same habits and find one in a hurry. There are more than enough out there (here).
I developed habits when I was in Oregon House that I actually miss feeding. They exist as memories, neurological connections, sleeping giants which visit me from time to time in my dreams. The difference is that I know what they are, how they act, and what their purpose is.
Habits are hypnotic. As a matter of fact that is the key of hypnosis, repetition.
I even remember myself saying to myself “ What would Robert say about that?“ I always knew. Why? Because whatever it was had been repeated so many times that I knew the whole damned script by heart. I mean after ten, twenty, or thirty years only a complete idiot would have any doubts.
No it does not surprise me that I was there so long and it does not surprise me that I got away. I allowed the insects to eat away at the foundations. That takes time but it is also effective. Eventually it all happened as if on its own and quite suddenly but on closer examination it was and is clearly a work of art, bit by bit. All is well.
Cheers!!
Rumours, or not rumours…..
It would not surprise me at all if quite soon the excreta hits the air-conditioning provider. It would not surprise me at all if the IRS and INS are descending upon the FOF. It would not surprise me at all if Burton has tried to escape criminal proceeding against him by fleeing to Italy. And (worst of all for accomplices to the fact) it would not surprise me at all if ‘loyal students’ are protecting Burton get involved. They will be accesories to the crimes that REB has perpetrated…..
I say to all FOFfers – bail out or put up with a lot of criminal proceedings – it is not a la-di-da cultural ark – it is a cess-pit…..Nigel
Here is the link.
I heard from a reliable source that Robert Burton didn’t go to Italy. He went to Chicago and Florida for about ten days and now he is back at Apollo and he is doing quite well
Regarding the above video…
“the main objective of hoʻoponopono is getting to “the state of Zero, where we would have zero limits. No memories. No identity.”[35] To reach this state, called ‘Self-I-Dentity’, one has to repeat constantly the mantra, “I’m sorry. Please forgive me. I love you. Thank you.”[36] It is based on the principle of 100% responsibility,[37] taking responsibility for everyone’s actions, not only for one’s own. If one would take complete responsibility for one’s life, then everything one sees, hears, tastes, touches, or in any way experiences would be one’s responsibility because it is in one’s life.[38] The problem would not be with our external reality, it would be with ourselves. To change our reality, we would have to change ourselves. Total Responsibility, according to Hew Len, advocates that everything exists as a projection from inside the human being.[39] As such, it is similar to the philosophy of solipsism, but differs in that it doesn’t deny the reality of the consciousness of others. Instead it views all consciousness as part of the whole, so any error that a person clears in their own consciousness is cleared for everyone. This idea of an individual having the ability to benefit the whole indirectly can be seen in the theory of the Hundredth monkey effect.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoʻoponopono
It has long been a virtue among FoF devotees to be infected with the love of their leader, but only those who have mastered the “reach-around technique” will be favored. Good luck and may C-Influence guide and protect you.
“The problem would not be with our external reality, it would be with ourselves.”
This is a key topic. Keep in mind that adopting the above attitude is exactly how cult leaders take control of their followers. It fosters passivity and compliance. It’s perfect.
Here’s the thing… It’s not “one” or “the other.”
When a person pays attention only to the “external realities” and places responsibility for their situation on everything outside of themselves, YES, that’s an imbalance in one direction. They end “playing the victim” and they fail to take responsibility for their lives.
But when — on the other hand — a person is so entirely wrapped up in themselves that they fail to see “external realities”, then that’s an imbalance in the other direction. They open themselves up to abuse and manipulation, and they are prime targets for cult leaders (and other weird people).
Why this constant need to make it one or the other? Why not pay attention to both your external realities AND your internal realities? Because when you think about it sincerely, you really can’t do one without the other.
Re. 63-64- Another Name-Golden Veil:
It seems to me that this “ Hoʻoponopono“ practice or attempted practice is far from being even within the realm of possibilities for the majority of people. Seriously, I think it would just be a waste of time and energy. On top of that one would automatically get tons of distortion caused by the desire to resist change to our list of addictions. This also would result in manipulation of the gullible as stated by Bryan. Hummm! On second thought I might just give it a try, I could use some disposible income.
Cheers!
#64 is new
Renald, how much will you charge?
One website describes Ho’oponopono as the process of repeating the following phrases: ” I Love You, Please forgive me, I am sorry, Thank you”, as well as “accepting 100% of responsibility for everything experienced” as others have already mentioned.
I’m not looking for a Way or a religion or a “teacher” (sorry, was just kidding Renald), but Ho’oponopono does resonate with me.
This idea of accepting 100% responsibility — Maybe it’s as simple as this: When a person takes full responsibility, they focus more on what they send out to the world, rather than what they want to receive from it.
—
Where things go wrong with this sort of idea is when a person can’t take action to avoid or remove themselves from a negative, destructive environment — i.e., when someone believes that “taking 100% responsibility” means thinking critically only about themselves while de-emphasizing the need for external changes in their lives. It’s imbalanced. Cult leaders encourage that imbalance, because it fosters passivity and compliance. They can more easily walk all over people.
I still like a lot of the so-called New Age ideas that I’ve been introduced to over the years, but my cult experience tells me that it’s a very good idea to keep my feet on the ground as I ponder them. While it’s a wonderful, beautiful idea to forgive all and fill your heart with love, a person can still exist in that state while being wary and vigilant about the (sometimes) very strange people we meet. These things are not mutually exclusive. The state of love and the state of vigilance sometimes feel very similar and in harmony with each other.
Haha! # 64 Silentburp!
Really… happy, healthy, and at Apollo!
Back to organized orgiastic orgasms, as usual…
Students, get your medications ready to drop!
64..
Well, lets see how well will he be doing when the FBI, IRS and INS will bust his ass.
And as Nige said ´´bail out or get locked in´´.
What the stupid new age bullshit!
I forgive nothing, I have no compassion, love or kindness to evil criminals who have defrauded others, abused the trust and power they were given by raping phisicly and psychologicly the others.
With this kind of ideas you will only find yourself deeper in shit. Good luck with that. I´m out.
70 . Bryan and 72. X-Ray
Being “out” of the Fellowship of Friends and in a state of love or hate…it’s your choice or personal style and maybe it doesn’t have to be exclusive.
X-Ray, I find your expressions of how you despise Robert E. Burton comparatively refreshing to much of the apathy that prevails “in” and “out” of the Fellowship of Friends.”
Bryan, I think that emotional road maps like the Ho’oponopono one that you are following, can be a key to emotional healing and a happy life, “after” the Fellowship of Friends. A necessity for survival, even, for some.
I will not forget what I know to be wrong… and I believe, too, in the power of love. I don’t think “The Teacher” Robert Burton does either.
[IMG]http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/KikiDuvet/MoralCompass.jpg[/IMG]
<a href="http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/
Here’s how it looks from either side…..
The ‘inners’ believe (because Burton has told them) that C-influence (the angels or gods or the 44) will take care of them should they continue to do what he tells them, follow him and put-up with his disgusting habits…..
The ‘outers’ can clearly see that natural laws (and this includes laws of state and country) bear on all our actions. However, a psychopath like Burton cannot see that these laws will catch him (hopefully like X-ray and I wish before his bodily demise so that the shock will echo through the ‘halls of the FOF)…..Nigel.
In actual fact, I think the whole ‘play’ of the Fellowship of Friends has been a ‘set-up’ by Higher Forces to expose Burton as the Anti-Christ.
And the time is not too near when we will see…..
Keep your eyes glued to the screen, folks…..Nigel.
x-ray, try throwing away the usual connotations of the word. Part of what I was conveying is that forgiveness is not a state of passivity, meekness, and tolerance for criminal behavior. If that’s what it does mean, then I’m completely with you on that — count me out, too. Tyrants and cult leaders want people to see forgiveness in that way.
Forgiveness to me is more a state of mind and heart. It’s not weak or feminine (or masculine) or naive. It’s a strong emotion, period. It’s controlled passion, balanced intensity, and tough love.
If I had the ability to lock Burton up and throw away the key, I would do it today. I feel that as long as he is free, he continues to be a danger to the health and well-being of the people he comes in contact with. and locking him up would alleviate a lot of suffering that he’s causing.
(And by the way, this idea that certain followers would be helpless orphans without the cult — or that somehow they are better off in the cult because they can no longer take care of themselves — is complete nonsense.)
But I wish I knew exactly what needed to be done to bring Burton to justice. Part of me believes that (like Nigel suggested earlier) that he’s living in his own personal prison, and I also believe that things will get increasingly unpleasant for him. One of the reasons that society puts people away is that they become dangerous. We rarely talk about Burton in this way (no doubt, someone will call it “hyperbole”). But we should use the word “dangerous” more often. I don’t think we’re quite getting at the truth about him until we do. When someone can convince thousands of people to do things that are harmful to themselves, what better word is there?
Nigel: “In actual fact, I think the whole ‘play’ of the Fellowship of Friends has been a ‘set-up’ by Higher Forces to expose Burton as the Anti-Christ.”
Nigel, you’re kidding right?
79. Bryan
Think about it!!!!! A long-shot I know…..Nigel.
I agree with you Bryan, burton is dangerous and extremly harmful to the people´s well being. And this is why he must face trial now.
I understand your point on fogrivness too, and I forgive my dear onces when they screwing up sometimes. But for burton, I just don´t have any.
Just keep speaking up and contact the authorities..
No. 77 Nigel
“In actual fact, I think the whole ‘play’ of the Fellowship of Friends has been a ‘set-up’ by Higher Forces to expose Burton as the Anti-Christ.”
Nigel, I think you’re giving the old Fellowship of Friends Con Artist/”teacher” a little too much power of influence here…
He is not a man number anything; it is, in fact, all b.s.!
By the way, on posts No. 74 and 75 I was trying to insert an illustration of an artist’s rendition of a “moral compass,” something that Robert E. Burton obviously lacks; it didn’t come out.
Here’s an interesting link:
http://www.moralcompass.com/self-assessments.php
Aw Bryan, and I had my heart (king of hearts) set on this great pair of cufflinks. You life people just don`t understand. They are important. They would raise my alchemy a couple notches. Damn!
I may as well just fly off to the moon without them. Cheez Louise!
Cheers!
“May thy sweet blossoms never cease
to bloom in love and trust in peace.”
[IMG]http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i411/KikiDuvet/vintage-american-flag-lady-liberty1.jpg[/IMG]
And if these words you do not heed
Your pocketbook just kinda might recede
When some man comes along and claims a godly need
He will clean you out right through your tweed
That’s right, you asked for it, remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over . . .
He’s got twenty million dollars
In his Heavenly Bank Account . . .
All from those chumps who was
Born again
Oh yeah, oh yeah
He’s got seven limousines
And a private plane . . .
All for the use of his
Special Friends
Oh yeah, oh yeah
He’s got thousand-dollar suits
And a Wembley Tie . . .
Girls love to stroke it
While he’s on the phone
Oh yeah, oh yeah
At the House of Representatives
He’s a groovy guy . . .
When he Gives Thanks
He is not alone . . .
He is dealin’
He is really dealin’
IRS can’t determine
Where The Hook is
It is easy with the Bible
To pretend that
You’re in Show Biz
(And a-one, and a-two, and a . . . )
They won’t get him
They will never get him
For the naughty stuff
That he did
It is best in cases like this
To pretend that
You are stupid
(DOH . . . )
He’s got Presidential Help
All along the way
He says the grace
While the lawyers chew
Oh yeah
They sure do
And the Governors agree to say:
“He’s a lovely man!”
He makes it easier for
Them to screw
All of you . . .
Yes, that’s true!
’Cause he helps put The Fear of God
In the Common Man
Snatchin’ up money
Everywhere he can
Oh yeah
Oh yeah
He’s got twenty million dollars
In his Heavenly Bank Account
You ain’t got nothin’, people
You ain’t got nothin’, people
You ain’t got nothin’, people
Thank the man . . . oh yeah
As we end another broadcast day
Let me say
That you ain’t got nothin’
And he’s got it all
And your miserable self
Is against the wall
The only thing you have not tried
It’s the sport of chumps
That’s SUICIDE
I remember when this blog has represented an inspiring vehicle through which honest communication of facts has given people/members worldwide the possibility to know the truth about all things related to the Fellowship of Friends and Robert E. Burton.
Reasons why credibility, respectability and likability of this blog have ridiculously plummeted:
– Gratuitous fabrication of false rumors.
– Groundless, childish scare tactics.
– Clear absence of an active smart moderator.
– Extreme cultist Anti-FoF behavior.
– Plain and simple stupidity.
– Nigel.
– (your name here)
– (my picture here)
– General lack of sense of humor.
–
–
silentburp @86. Would you like me to close down the blog so it doesn’t have to disappoint you anymore? Why do you think you know how active in the blog I am or how smart I am? Are you kidding? Is this your idea of humor?
A couple of posts above: “I remember when this blog has represented an inspiring vehicle through which honest communication of facts has given people/members worldwide the possibility to know the truth about all things related to the Fellowship of Friends and Robert E. Burton.”
Hmm, Did someone delete all of the previous pages? Still there, last I checked. In fact, if someone were concerned that the posts lack any substance on this page (for example, your post above), they could easily scroll up the page to look at some really interesting comments. You aren’t one of those people who lie by omitting important details, would you?
***
“Reasons why credibility, respectability and likability of this blog have ridiculously plummeted:
– Gratuitous fabrication of false rumors.
– Groundless, childish scare tactics.”
Yes, you are so right. Everyone should be careful about damaging Burton’s reputation, or saying anything that reflects poorly on the Fellowship. Big priority. Major concern.
And yes, as far as scare tactics, I’ll try one: People who don’t comply with my thinking will experience a “second death” on the moon. Is that what you’re referring to?
86. fofblogmoderator
Nicely said. He/she is an asshole…..Nigel
86 silentburp
I have been a contributor to this blog for several years now and do not see how your recent appearance has added any worthwhile factor…..Nigel.
Robert Burton is not abroad. He is at Apollo leading meetings and he looks well.
re. 86. Silentburp
Once the demise of the old fart becomes imminent there will be much less reason to focus on his sick and criminal behavior not that it was ever my main intent. It might be generally thought that this will be sooner than later and that expectation might very well have come about due to his very own prediction. I mean he is bound to be right about something just one time in 35 or so years, is he not?
Cheers!!
85 is new
OK, ShieksBlog, let’s get this straight: I’ll read you, but I don’t have to like you.
Yes, there will be ups and downs on the blog. It’s just not possible to remain at the height of achievement posts such as this edifying yet charming video have reached…
“90. Josiane – July 5, 2011
Robert Burton is not abroad. He is at Apollo leading meetings and he looks well.”
And? Are you suggesting there’s nothing to be concerned about?
It reminds me a lot of the types of reactions one gets in the cult when any concerns are articulated about Burton. It’s gossip. It’s a rumor. It’s negative. It doesn’t matter. He’s our teacher. Photograph them. Attack the messenger passively aggressively. Deny. Change the subject. Forget all about it. Sip your wine. Smile knowingly. Stare into space. Return to the trance.
95. Bryan
“And? Are you suggesting there’s nothing to be concerned about?”
Not at all. But when someone says that RB is in Italy and that the authorities are after him, that’s just wishful thinking, incorrect information or plain lying, none of which benefit this blog an iota.
Nigel:
The moment you call him an asshole for disagreeing with you is the moment when you have projected your own unconsciousness upon him.
A wise man finds dissent worthwhile.
Exercising and protecting the right of free speech, for instance, helps keep a society healthy, thriving, and more self-aware.
You have just as much right to be here as anyone else, so why judge silent burp so readily? He just got here for goodness sake!
Expressing dissent can be used as a healthy form of reality testing.
It is precisely those silent burps, those small stirrings of conscience to which we must listen in order to know the whole truth.
Why hold back on the likes of the silent burps of the world and of becoming more conscious of our unconscious shit?
You’ve got to let that shit out to stay healthy, you know…to stay sane you’ve got to call it the way you see it to someone personal…bullshit is bullshit, there are no two ways around it.
In fact, despite the bad rap that GH got for doing it within earshot of others, holding back even your farts can cause the painful symptoms of IBS.
Fofblogmoderator:
You’re doing a marvelous job, keep up the good work!
Anytime you want to set up a PayPal link to accept donations, I’m fine with that.
I could care less about Burton’s whereabouts or state of health.
Let’s be here for each other.
Josiane and a few others,
By railing against “the blog” as a supposedly out-of-control rumor-mill and issuing your blanket disapproval and outrage for any commentary about Burton that does not meet your criteria for what is fair and accurate, you’re contributing to the same hysteria that you claim to object to. If you want a page that provides something useful and enlightening to the reader, why not simply address the poster with your dissenting opinion — and not attack “the blog”?
My question to anyone who is righteously indignant about unsubstantiated or unproven commentary about Burton is this:
Why are you? What’s bothering you?
Is it really a concern for keeping things factual and truthful? Or is it something else? In the end you have the equal power of anyone here to refute and set the record straight.
I’ll take Whalerider’s comments a step further: I could care less about Burton’s whereabouts, or his state of health, OR whether anyone is hurting his feelings.
When I look at the above page, I see dozens of posts that are interesting, measured, informative, and thought-provocative. The rest I either leave alone, or dismiss, or possibly respond to directly.
Each reader can use their common sense as a filter, and they can just make a note of commentary without accepting it outright. They can also use their common sense to gradually absorb truths that may not be entirely pleasant and flattering.
98. Bryan
I can hear your pain and anger in your post but please don’t take it on me. You and I, as all bloggers here, have our own way of expressing our experience in FoF and talking about it. That’s what a blog is for, isn’t it? This blog can be rather extreme at times and bloggers such as myself with a more moderate voice aren’t well received. So be it. It is a voice nonetheless.
I wish I could agree with Whalerider (whose voice I have always respected) that we should be here for each other. Yet I don’t see it happening. What I am seeing mostly are people who are stuck in a situation where they are unable to come to terms with their lives post FoF. I am one of these people. And I don’t want to be one of them for the rest of my life. I want out and I don’t think that putting RB behind bars or closing down the property or any other measure will bring me peace of mind.
Sure, go ahead and pursue any legal actions you can find against RB and FoF. I said it in another email but it’s worth repeating, FoF has already been investigated by the INS and hundreds of illegal students were sent back to their homeland.
Oh well, sounds like I have just signed myself out of this blog for good.
Namaste!
I personally don’t hear any pain or any anger in Bryan’s post but I think what he says does represent my view as well. There are plenty of intelligent posts on this site and if someone starts some unsubstantiated rumors, oh well. It happens all the time everywhere. The FOF is full of misinformation and rumors.
This site has served a useful purpose for many people and has helped shed light on the behind-the-scenes reality of the FOF. What was possibly started as a “school” that would allow people to “work on themselves” quickly turned into a questionable business endeavor that allowed the founder (Burton) to have his “special needs” satisfied by his followers. The minute I heard that you must give up your will to the will of the teacher I started to wonder if this was what I really wanted. His followers will tell you that unless you give up your will, you will not be able to achieve the results that would allow you to verify the rewards that can be obtained by doing so….. I’ll pass.
Josiane,
I am not planning to pursue legal actions against Burton, and I never wrote that I was planning to. (You seem to be grouping me together with another one or two posters here.)
What I did say (in response to a comment by another poster) is that Burton going to jail would be a positive development to help free many people who feel psychologically trapped in the Fellowship. I also said it’s a fallacy that many people currently depend upon the FOF for their well-being, and that it would be harmful to them if the FOF folded. This isn’t anger or pain or being vengeful. This is my desire to see something end that is causing suffering — that’s all. I also said that I have no idea how anyone would make it happen.
In my opinion, the most important experience lacking in the FOF is the ability for people to speak openly and with a strong voice, and to share ideas that are not yet given approval by the man in authority. There’s a lack of healthy dialog that can help people make wise decisions about their present and future. Although many people eventually learn many unpleasant truths about Burton and the FOF without such an open community forum, the lack of such a forum prevents many others from thoughtfully assessing what they’re involved in.
Your voice is welcome here, or at least I certainly welcome it. I like your even tone, and I actually agree with you and appreciate your comments much more than you realize. But I sense a lot of sadness in you? Maybe you feel the same sadness that I do — that something we thought was beautiful and inspirational turned out to be something quite different.
The primary intent of authorities in the FOF is to silence dissenting voices. It may sometimes feel hurtful that people are expressing opinions that seem harsh or unforgiving. But maybe it’s not quite so angry or quite so harsh as some people think.
And maybe we’re a lot closer in our views and feelings than it seems. But how would we know until we express them?
Namaste.
My perception is that, because people have left the FF at different times (3-4 years ago; in the 1990s; in the 1980s; etc.), that we’re in different phases of our relationship to the FF’s mind control elements and RB’s behavior. For example, someone that left the FF a long time ago may have already distanced themselves from some of the more repulsive aspects of RB and the controlling aspects of the FF. It doesn’t mean such a person doesn’t care about the issues. Some people are not inclined towards public engagement. Others want more action and visible results. I don’t see any reason why fellow bloggers should be coerced or pressured to conform to one view or another.
Josiane’s report on RB’s state of health might be firsthand, or it might be secondhand. I don’t think she’s obliged, on a blog, to divulge more than that. I’ve heard information about RB’s health, too, but none of it is any different than the various possibilities mentioned on this page. The subject of his health is intricately connected with the sordid stuff he evidently did, and does.
Has anyone actually seen the old man recently?
Did he have a cock in his mouth?
It’s amazing that he can teach at the same time.
Not a pretty picture, but it turns his crank.
86 silentpoop
Salary paid damage control team.
Pathetic.
103 Agent
well, there is a time in a day where he does not have a cock in his mouth (when he eats for example) but there isn´t a time when he doesn´t have it in his head.
99
And what about a fraudulent marriges, Josine?
Are you aware of Asaf´s case?
btw, it is a federal crime up to 5 years in federal prison and/or $250.000 in fine.
and if there is any one here who is ´´unable to come to terms with their lives post fof´´ it´s only you, the rest are doing pretty good.
oh and btw, silentvomit 86
this blog have help to free about 700 people from the fellowship jail in the first year of its presence and to me it´s quite effective, so regardless what you think about it, it works quite well and your presence here only proves me right.
I have said it before and I will say it again.
This blog is fine and has always been.
Sure my little old feelings were hurt at times in the past but that was my problem. I attracted the pain. I had to come to terms with myself and make some changes. I am much better off now for it.
I am grateful for every single letter typed on here since day one.
The moderators have been and are perfect. I have never had a single negative thought about any of them.
It is easy to fall into the victim trap. It always feels bad though and the choice to get out of there is only common sense and actually not that difficult. (no pun intended). It`s that journey of a thousand miles story which starts with one small step. The thing is that describing the journey that way is a lie. It is not a thousand miles because a thousand miles does not take place in the present where we all are.
If I felt bad yesterday or an hour ago and I suddenly cause myself to feel good now, that is what matters. I can celebrate it and thus magnify it. I think anyone who reads this blog, whatever the point of view is, can come to a point of feeling better. I obviously consider how I feel as being very important. Some might not agree.
I consider my enjoyment of life to be all there is. Shit happens but hopefully less and less to me. Very selfish, I know, but I can`t control what goes on elsewhere, well not completely anyway. I have not tried the onoponono exercise and I cannot even consider trying it if I feel lousy, so one thing at the time. I rambled. Pffffttt!
Cheers!!
86. silentburp
Not to take it personally… but why my picture on your ridiculous reasons-list, you asshole?
87. fofblogmoderator
… So touchy! When I said: “Clear absence of an active smart moderator.” I was clearly not talking about you. You are doing fine.
96. Bryan
“It reminds me a lot of the types of reactions one gets in the cult… It’s gossip. It’s a rumor. It’s negative. It doesn’t matter. He’s our teacher…”
The psychological cultist anti-FoF behavior expressed here is not much different.
98. Bryan
“My question to anyone who is righteously indignant about unsubstantiated or unproven commentary about Burton is this: Why are you? What’s bothering you?”
“Is it really a concern for keeping things factual and truthful? Or is it something else?”
Shit is shit. The motive… why is there doesn’t magically turn it into chocolate.
96. Josiane
Thank you!
(disclaimer: the commentaries of the above blogger are not in any way associated with the views expressed in the post #86)
97. Whalerider
I agree 100%, especially the “You’ve got to let that shit out to stay healthy” part.
99. Josiane
I agree. The show that some people put up here makes me wonder about how much they have really distanced themselves from the FoF.
100. 2011
“There are plenty of intelligent posts on this site and if someone starts some unsubstantiated rumors, oh well. It happens all the time everywhere. The FOF is full of misinformation and rumors.”
Good explanation! Well done…!
101. Bryan
I agree, it is hard to admit that the FoF was a complete waste of time, but as the poet said: “You have to let that shit out…” without coating it with gold foil prior to serving it and eating it.
Regarding: “In my opinion, the most important experience lacking in the FOF is the ability for people to speak openly and with a strong voice, and to share ideas that are not yet given approval by the man in authority. There’s a lack of healthy dialog that can help people make wise decisions about their present and future. Although many people eventually learn many unpleasant truths about Burton and the FOF without such an open community forum, the lack of such a forum prevents many others from thoughtfully assessing what they’re involved in.”
It’s a cult!!
Remember?
You cannot have it both ways: being in a cult AND having the luxury of speaking your mind…. Sorry.
104. X-ray
“Salary paid damage control team.
Pathetic.”
Yes! That is pathetic! Although, from a bias point of view it would also be seen as someone’s show of love and care for his/her cause (as many people’s behavior here).
In my case it is also wrong, but nevertheless you are entitled to your feel-good speculations.
106. X-ray
That’s right. At the beginning of the month it has been celebrated yet another successful marriage between American Citizenship and the latest steel-head Russian.
108. X-ray
True! … in the first year. Regardless of what I think, It worked for me too! That was then…?
Wow! There is a lot of work to be done here… how about that Paypal account…?
111. Mantra
The blog is doing fine… the posts are being inspiring… the moderators have been and are perfect… amen!
Ora pro Nobis
well, you don´t seem to be gratful for this blog for saving your money and sperm by helping you out.
you know, those who become a smartasses after being helped are usually shitheads to begin with.
I’d like to clarify my post 44 above re: HIV testing. One of my doctors told me that NYS passed a law in 2010 to do with such testing. For the NYS state patient, it makes it easier and less stigmatized to get tested; it’s as routine as any other blood work you’d need.
I don’t know if CA has a burdensome system re: HIV testing. Since many of the people who were in sexual contact with RB are probably in CA, then some of those privacy/follow-up obstacles would have to be factored in by anyone who feels they need to be tested.
Located in Grass Valley, California:
Free, walk-in ANONYMOUS HIV testing at the clinic on Tuesdays from 1-4pm
http://www.yellowpages.com/grass-valley-ca/mip/nevada-county-citizens-for-choice-21980306
More sources for anonymous HIV tests. This page shows California locations but they have affiliates in 47 states.
http://www.personalabs.com/anonymous-hiv-testing-california.aspx
113, 114 Thank you. The important word “anonymous” reminded me that the NY doctor said something to the effect that, prior to the 2010 NYS change, one of your doctors could test you for HIV without your knowledge and it could negatively impact you because that knowledge could potentially be shared (with other doctors; your insurance provider; etc.). In NY, you now have to sign a consent form before they test you. This way, you know you are about to be tested, and you can think about how to inform people around you if you test positive.
The other significance of the word “anonymous” for people in CA is that it should encourage anyone in CA who needs to be tested to go and get tested. If he/she tests positive, then the person can act accordingly. As mentioned earlier, unlike STDs that were/are uncomfortable or painful to the patient, where most of them are containable or curable, HIV still has no cure. The newer drugs can control the virus for a much longer time, which unfortunately has encouraged risky behavior again with certain people.
Since being tested for communicable diseases is a somewhat unselfish act, I wouldn’t expect that FoF members would want to know the truth of their unfortunate situation.
If you are in California or Florida you can get a free anonymous test and find out the result in 20 minutes at these locations:
http://www.outofthecloset.org/hivtesting.html
Google is a great way to locate a free anonymous test clinic near you, wherever you are. Just Google Free Anonymous HIV test.
No matter where you are in the world, having an HIV test would be an especially good idea for all Fellowship of Friends Students that are sexually active!
Space-Time-Money Vortex Discovered in Northern California
NASA/WASHINGTON- Einstein was right again. There is a space-time-money vortex around Earth, apparently centered in cult ridden Oregon House, California, and its shape precisely matches the predictions of Einstein’s Theory of Depravity and supports his most famous formula, T = $, (time = money).
Researchers confirmed these points at a press conference today at NASA headquarters where they announced the long-awaited results of the Anal Depravity Probe B (ADP-B), launched in way back in 1971.
“The space-time-money field around Oregon House appears to be distorted just as general relativity and common sense predicts,” says Stanford University physicist Francis Everitt, principal investigator of the Anal Depravity Probe B mission. “These findings support a fundamental law of the universe that whenever you add too much money to anything, it becomes distorted and depraved.”
Time, space, and money, according to Einstein’s theories of depravity, are woven together, forming a four-dimensional fabric called “space-time-money”, or “time-money-space”, or if you will, “money-time-space”. According to scientists, you can’t have one without the other; they are intimately related and interconnected.
The results of the Anal Probe suggest that the great mass of ignorance in Oregon House dimples this fabric, much like a really fat person sitting in the middle of a trampoline, indulging in all their lusts, getting fatter and fatter.
Depravity (says Einstein), like gravity, is simply the flow of narcissistic tools, objects, and money following the curvaceous lines into the dimple caused by the ignorant, all-consuming mass.
If intelligence or Earth were stagnant and stationary, that would be the end of the story.
But intelligence, like Earth, is not stationary; it is always in motion, expanding and changing throughout time and space. There have been movements away from Oregon House recently detected.
“It’s all in the spin,” Everitt, says. “Just as our planet spins, the spin twists the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl, almost like water in a bathtub drain.”
Researchers concluded that spinning reality the way cults do can distort reality, too, creating the illusion in those gripped by the pull that they are the center of the universe; which acts like a vortex that is almost impossible to escape from, draining followers of their energy and allowing vast amounts of money to accumulate in the huge dimple of ignorance.
After NASA’s announcement, as predicted, nothing much came out of Oregon House, just a faint cry for, “More, please”.
116. Agent 45
Even though I did not get near Burton’s “inner group” and his harem, in my naivete I thought that he would be acting in the interests of his students and THEIR aims. Funny thing, though, this blogsite is the biggest and best expose of not only my, but everybody else’s naivete.
I actually expect that not only will Burton and his “inner group” lay open the truth about the situations that would have adverse effects on students’ well-being but will continue to spread the lies that make present FOFfers feel that nothing is wrong and they are all on the way to Heaven.
I repeat – NOTHING IS WRONG!!!!!
Can you guys believe that?????…..Nigel.
Sorry – not only…..not lay open…..Nigel
“The gesture Namaste represents the belief that there is a Divine spark within each of us that is located in the heart chakra. The gesture is an acknowledgment of the soul in one by the soul in another. “Nama” means bow, “as” means I, and “te” means you. Therefore, Namaste literally means “bow me you” or “I bow to you.”
To perform Namaste, we place the hands together at the heart charka, close the eyes, and bow the head. It can also be done by placing the hands together in front of the third eye, bowing the head, and then bringing the hands down to the heart. This is an especially deep form of respect. Although in the West the word “Namaste” is usually spoken in conjunction with the gesture, in India, it is understood that the gesture itself signifies Namaste, and therefore, it is unnecessary to say the word while bowing.
We bring the hands together at the heart chakra to increase the flow of Divine love. Bowing the head and closing the eyes helps the mind surrender to the Divine in the heart. One can do Namaste to oneself as a meditation technique to go deeper inside the heart chakra; when done with someone else, it is also a beautiful, albeit quick, meditation.
For a teacher and student, Namaste allows two individuals to come together energetically to a place of connection and timelessness, free from the bonds of ego-connection. If it is done with deep feeling in the heart and with the mind surrendered, a deep union of spirits can blossom.
Ideally, Namaste should be done both at the beginning and at the end of class. Usually, it is done at the end of class because the mind is less active and the energy in the room is more peaceful. The teacher initiates Namaste as a symbol of gratitude and respect toward her students and her own teachers and in return invites the students to connect with their lineage, thereby allowing the truth to flow—the truth that we are all one when we live from the heart. ”
(I always wondered what this meant – thank you Google…..Nigel)
118. WhaleRider – July 8, 2011:
‘Einstein’s Theory of Depravity and supports his most famous formula, T = $, (time = money).’
Sorry, but this theory has been updated. Equation should be: T = a$$, (time = ass + money). Sometimes expressed as T = a$² or T = a$ squared.
Also, ‘[t]he space-time-money field’ is now refered to as: space-time-dollars (STD) field. Expressed as: There is a warped STD field in Oregon House.
Otherwise, you got the Anal Depravity Probe B (ADP-B) theory correct.
I also understand that NASA undertook the Anal Depravity Probe B (ADP-B) in preparation for a human Mars (♂) Probe.
Here is a picture of the crew and probe:
Oddly enough while in the Fellowship of Friends/aka/Pathway to Presence I learned to distance myself from others. At the beginning I did meet a lot of strangers from all over the world and shared a common teaching, a common language and so on. However before long I learned that these people who I invested emotional time and energy with just kept on mysteriously disappearing. This taught me to keep more to myself on an emotional level. Looking back now I am sorry that I reacted that way. Yet the system was obviously flawed.
Here is an excerpt from a recent Andre Agassi interview, only one question regarding education:
“ TPG: What’s the general approach you and your wife take toward supporting your kids in what they’re passionate about?
Agassi: First and foremost, we try to teach our kids empathy. It’s important that they see life through other people’s lens. And they learn more from what they see than what you tell them certainly. Secondly, we try to understand and recognize their passions and support them wholeheartedly in what their passion is. My only stipulation is that they can’t change their minds at the cost of letting down anybody else. So if my son’s going to play baseball and be on a team, he will be at every practice and be at every game and play what he needs to or sit on the bench, if he needs to, and will see it through, because that’s important to me. It teaches him that life is a bit broader than just his own particular whims.“
In an environment which is geared to lead to abuse of all sorts and then abandonment as the icing on the cake, empathy and responsability is not a subject ever mentioned. If anything my antisocial tendencies were reinforced by being labeled `a lunar` and all hopes of balance and development into a better person went out the window. This damage has taken a long time to undo. I hope I still have time and the possibility to effect corrections to the possibilities of our 7 year old daughter Sara Joy. I have noticed that group-think is often spat upon by members of this discussion group. This is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Individuality is a gift but it is not the complete picture. It is not `either or`. Both have their relative places in a healthy balanced person.
Cheers!!
Hi Renald,
I like your take and quote from your latest post. I have difficulty with individuality/empathy when ‘suffering’ from my bipolar swings. At the present stage in my play, I have to thank my students for the work they do for themselves and which they make me do for them (Burton is so fucked up he could not do anything for anyone else other than make them suffer) and my little West Highland Terrier, Ferdy, who gives me a sentient being to take care of on a constant basis. As you probably know, I count Walt Whitman as one of my two guardian angels (see if you can guess the other one!?)…..
from Walt Whitman’s “Leaves of Grass”
ONE’S-SELF I sing—a simple, separate Person;
Yet utter the word Democratic, the word En-masse.
Of Physiology from top to toe I sing;
Not physiognomy alone, nor brain alone, is worthy for the muse—
I say the Form complete is worthier far;
The Female equally with the male I sing.
Of Life immense in passion, pulse, and power,
Cheerful—for freest action form’d, under the laws divine,
The Modern Man I sing.
Here is a big hint (O.K., so it’s obvious)…..
Sonnet 29 “When in disgrace with fortune and men’s eyes”
When in disgrace with fortune and men’s eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf Heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself, and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featur’d like him, like him with friends possess’d,
Desiring this man’s art, and that man’s scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least:
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee,–and then my state
(Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth) sings hymns at heaven’s gate;
For thy sweet love remember’d such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings’.
Nigel- Adopt any or all of the angels who bring you joy. If he has 44 then surely you deserve 88 just to start, although he may actually need more if ten persent of what we hear is true. Cheers!
126. Renald
I think that Burton, with his insistence that “angels are flying around our heads as we are dining” is his completely messing up the idea of C-influence – it is an ‘influence’ that is hinted at by our play unfolding moment by moment (the physical denoting the spiritual ‘behind the screen’ as it were). I think he is lying through as many orifices as he has when he states that he can actually see beings in robes with wings…..Nigel.
Fragments of a Lost Teaching
Ramblings from a Porcelain Room Dinner, Spring 1979
Student: Is it true that the theory of ladders is more useful for you than us?
Teacher: It is useful for both if we can both verify it.
One can hear the stars in this music. (Tchaikovsky’s “Swan Lake”)
This was a wonderful weekend. (The Bose Arts Trio’s first visit to Reticence), yet I am glad it is over. The Bose Arts Trio is quite interesting. They perform a great deal. They are beginning to be at home here now.
London is our most successful foreign center. Munich is in a mi-fa interval which H_lga is overcoming. Soon Stel_a and Har_ld will go to Amsterdam and D_le and Pa_ela to Copenhagen.
I marvel that we consistently enjoy food. Yet as enjoyable as it is, it is nothing compared to the self. Few people on earth can rise above food. As simple as it seems, it is quite rare.
It is interesting that we can surprise people like Z_ra Nelso_a and the Bose Arts Trio, who have traveled all over the world.
I am never concerned that we might be laughed at, for I know the nature of our ark. It is said that Noah was laughed at when he built his ark. I have no ill feelings toward people who cannot understand us; I pity them.
I think the Hollowship is destined to have a good relationship with life. The people of Thebes said they could never defeat Athens as long as it had its beauty to defend it. The beauty here will serve us well, as life appreciates it.
There are many things I do not bother to explain, for there is not time to explain everything. I also know I do not have to explain to students of the inner circle, for they have their own working relationship to Influence C, and attempt to remember themselves. There would be no school if one had to explain everything, if there were no inner circle.
C Influence produces bogus and charlatan B Influence teachings in order to produce an environment in which a C Influence school can flourish. B Influence serves to produce magnetic centers fit for a C Influence school. This is the esoteric meaning of Christ’s words, “many are called, but few are chosen.”
The knowledge of the Old and New Testaments is essentially the same. In the story of Samson and Delilah, Samson being blinded means that he was identified with Delilah, and thus blind. The removal of Samson’s eyes means the extinguishing of his “I’s”, rather than merely the physical organs of sight.
One of the pleasant aspects of our school is that we can draw from Mr. Gurdjieff, Mr. Ouspensky, and Mr. Collin.
There are many obscure personages we have drawn from for the engraving octave; nevertheless they each had one profound thought which will enrich our lives.
One excellent “I” to use, if one could remember it before, rather than after the friction, is “this negative state is not permanent.” The Queen of Hearts becomes identified and one forgets that a negative state will pass. It is odd that such work “I’s” often elude us in the heat of the struggle and reappear when the friction is past.
It is impossible for the Queen of Hearts to have relativity because the hydrogens are not there.
Time and effort yield results.
One thing I have tried in my life is not to change something that has proved successful – especially friends. Our machines will seek to change something successful merely out of boredom.
When I am speaking with a student who loses the “I” he wishes to express, I open my mouth as if I am about to speak and that usually is enough to evoke his lost “I”. This is because all of our machines have a desire to be the active force and occupy space.
As I said, all our machines desire to be the active force. I notice that my own machine, when listening to another, will produce an ache in my shoulder in order that I can twitch my neck. At other times the machine may produce an itch or burp to buffer being the passive force. Initially, I found it difficult to believe that the machine buffers in this manner, yet I have since verified it. The instinctive center feigns a clumsy ignorance in order to mask its deceit. It is alright, for the King of Hearts far surpasses it. We are obviously governed by the King of Hearts, for otherwise students would not be out in the world struggling to support the school as they do.
In 1998 we will have to live by nature’s candle.
I was raised by a woman who worked and raised four children; I am quite accustomed to the idea of women working.
Ric_ard K_m is a positive third force C Influence is applying to our school. He is on Kar_ W_rner’s ladder and is philanthropic like him. He is eager to assist in building the school. Kar_ is quite frugal and quite generous, and one cannot be generous without being frugal.
St_lla does not tire of the system. I am not tired of it either, yet I could not go on with Monday meetings. This may be because we reached the end of a nine year gestation period for the school. Rodney Collin speaks of such a gestation period for a school.
One cannot speak of the future with certainty, for one’s level of being changes and a new being is there. I do not think that I will teach in meetings again, yet one cannot be sure, as I said. Yet this (Porcelain Room) keeps us from becoming formatory, and I have never dreaded coming here.
Life becomes a lot more interesting when one ceases to talk about oneself.
The Bose Arts Trio enjoyed performing here, despite the fact that they perform in the great cities of the world. They appreciated the beauty of the stage and the level of the audience. Mr. Pres_ler is coming back to give us a solo performance, and the Trio is coming next March, although they said they have more offers than they can accept. They have chosen to come here above life engagements.
If any man wishes the truth, it must be from here.
We are one people, we are the new chosen people, and of course that means suffering, which means immortal states.
Mr. Pres_ler said that Felix Mendelssohn was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, as he was born into a wealthy family. I was thinking that people who enter the way are born with golden spoons in their mouths.
It is amazing how many people one must pass to enter the way. I introduced two of my former teachers to my conscious teacher, and although they did not join his school, I felt I had repaid my debt to them.
Truth is not of any age; that is, one can find it when one is 20, 40, or 60.
There are many people who wish the truth in our age compared to other ages. Seeking the truth is a buffer for many people, for finding it means the beginning of real work.
I do not think that anyone who enters the way has a real problem; however the verification of that is reserved for higher school than this, never to be seen on earth.
One positive aspect about the completion of my role, that is, the dissolution of this body, is that I feel I will be able to communicate to students information I could not give them here, particularly about their next roles. Mr. Ouspensky was able to communicate with his students after his passing; this information is in Rodney Collin’s Theory of Eternal Life.
I was only three days off in the prediction of my crystallization, which over a period of ten years is quite good, and I consider that prediction accurate. If a depression occurs in 1984, if California falls in 1998, if Armageddon occurs in 2006, then I was correct regarding the other information I have been speaking about.
Actually, most of what I speak about is facts.
I think that the depression will be a source of suffering which we will transform. As Mars will be close to the Earth, I think it will be a violent depression. However, California will be the best state to be in, due to the mild climate and long growing season. Probably one out of every three students will be unemployed and will come here to build the school. Higher forces has indicated that the depression will last 3-1/2 years, and it will probably be ended by a war somewhere which will reactivate the economy.
It is interesting that the moon is quite large and we are quite small, yet there is something in us which far surpasses it. It seems to have no way of civilizing itself. The Absolute seems to have produced a forest of galaxies in which there may be pockets of life; we know there is one here.
The higher conversation we have had this evening has not been poetic fantasy but reality. The truth is too real to be believable. Byron said that “the truth is stranger than fiction”, which is more true than he knew.
When I traveled to the Middle East, I had no respect for persons like Alexander the Great who conquered those people who desperately need help. To slay those people was an act devoid of compassion.
It is difficult to have a real experience like this apart from Reticence; to remember that one is in a universe when one is in life struggling to support a school.
Life, with due respect , is quite childish; the law of accident in motion. Life does also produce some remarkable achievements.
One reason I like cameos is that they remind me of self-remembering, as one has to carve one’s self out of the stone of one’s life. When people’s roles are ended they will perhaps will their cameos to a Hollowship museum, and the cameos will serve as a remembrance of them.
***
After reading the preceding, it’s quite easy to recognize and appreciate similar “qualities” in the following:
How well I recall the all-knowing smugness expressed here:
And “life” is simply bewildered by it all:
111. x-ray
So, you decided to take the high road, using sophisticated rhetoric…
Why do you get so upset?
I never said I was not grateful for the blog, or that the blog has not been helpful.
This is what I’m talking about: thank you!
127. nigel
“… messing up the idea of c-influence”?
What?
Shirley & Golden veil
Thank you for your info.
Despite the rumors, since members are scraping the bottom of the sex pool of the FoF, it is nevertheless good sense to get tested.
128. Tim Campion
Ahhhhhhhhh… The good old times!
Booked a cheap flight to the next comet anyone?
128 Tim
Jeez, it was a torture to force myself thru that.. what garbage.
129 shithead
Sophisticated rhetoric? Well, to me it´s just a simple expression, but I think it depends on the level of being..remember the teaching?
o my god! who is this bold shmuck? is this the one who have MURDERED HUNDREDS OF INOCENT PEOPLE INCLUDING CHILDREN?
Now tell me anyone, how the ideology of this mad criinal is different from burton´s? TELL ME HOW?
Well, let me tell you then.. it is NOT! same old shit but look where this is leading.. to sucides to murder.. DO YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND?
and people like you Josine, are SUPPORTING this criminals with your new age bullshit mentality.
128 Tim Campion
128 Tim Campion
I am reminded what a good rap Burton had back then (if indeed he said these things, and it wasn’t heavily edited). The best con men are astute observers of human psychology. He played the “master” role pretty well. Not so hot on predictions though. If you were indoctrinated in the 4th way, his rap seemed particularly compelling, but after deprogramming, I am very aware how he sounded as nutty then as he does now with his new system.
How many of you have verified C influence? This particular twist on an old idea is definitely a Burtonism, but the underlying psychology is as old as humanity. Believing that your “unique” experience is a sign of your advanced evolution is nothing more than proof of massive subjectivity and gullibility.
Here’s a fact that we all know, with or without Jung’s having named it “synchronicity”: coincidences happen. Now, whether they happen because a divine intelligence runs through existence and pulls together random threads of information and activity to weave them into a meaningful fabric; or if our minds, continuously alert to seek out patterns that indicate fortuitous circumstances, and thus fabricate meaning where there is none – that one has yet to be definitively decided. But evidence for the latter is mounting.
Leonardo noticed way back when that if you stare at a pattern of woodgrain, pretty soon you’re seeing faces that aren’t really there. It’s the nature of our brains, and facial recognition is extremely important to survival. And from an evolutionary standpoint, it is better to see patterns that aren’t there (sound in the bush means a lion, so you jump even though it’s a bird), rather than not see them at all (don’t jump and it is a lion). As Robert Wright says in “The Evolution of God”:
“There is no reason to think that this incentive to claim special witness to high drama was any less powerful among hunter-gatherers circa 30,000 BCE than among midwestern Americans circa 1900 CE. Imagine that you are one of those hunter-gatherers and you walk past a place where someone died mysteriously, and you hear leaves rustle eerily. That’s a story that will get people’s attention, and you can heighten the attention by stressing how exquisitely timed the rustling was. And, by the way, didn’t you catch sight of a shadowy—almost ethereal—creature out of the corner of your eye?
“The anthropologist Stewart Guthrie has suggested that hunter-gatherers would be encouraged to make just such false sightings by standard human mental equipment—something called a “hyperactive agent-detection device.” Because the costs of failing to detect a predator lurking in the woods are much higher than the costs of detecting one that isn’t there, natural selection, he plausibly argues, may have biased our brains toward “false positives”: you hear a rustling, your mind flashes the vivid hypothesis of some generic animal that’s doing the rustling, and you turn toward it expectantly. Did you actually see something? Kind of.”
He makes the point that our brains, in the same way that they seek patterns in the natural world, look for, and find, patterns that would explain the supernatural world. Here’s how it worked in the cult.
Burton told us that The Gods were directly instructing cult members. They did this by arranging meaningful coincidences.
Now, admittedly, I wasn’t a total gullible loon, at least not when I joined. I took a mildly skeptical attitude toward the whole idea. But then – guess what? I started seeing 44s everywhere. When I looked at the clock, it would be 2:44. Glance at a license plate in front of me – a 44. They were freaking everywhere, without my even specifically looking for them.
Now, let it be said, Burton is simply not that clever. But on some intuitive level, he understood this idea of pattern-seeking behavior.
The mechanism behind the 44s has a neurochemical explanation. It’s all about the dopamine. In Jonah Lehrer’s book, “How We Decide,” he writes:
“…our brain cells are finely tuned to want more information about stuff which they already know. In essence, these cells work by constantly striving to reduce their “prediction-error signal,” which is the gap between what these cells expect to happen and what actually occurs. If a monkey has been trained to get a squirt of juice everytime a bell is rung, then these dopaminergic cells quickly learn that the bell predicts the sweet reward. As a result, they want more information about that specific rewarding stimulus. What, for instance, predicts the bell? Maybe the scientist flicks a switch before ringing the bell? Or maybe he scratches his nose? Or maybe he simply enters the room? What numerous experiments have found is that our dopamine neurons aren’t interested in responding to the reward itself – instead, they want to find the first reliable bit of information that predicts the reward.”
So…what? The what is that we receive pleasure from seeing the patterns in the world around us. That’s the deal with the 44s, and any other so-called personal messages from beyond.
It wasn’t the gods placing all those 44s in my environment – it was my brain’s “hyperactive agent-detection device,” functioning largely subconsciously, which made me see patterns that weren’t really there. I desperately wanted to believe, and I saw what I was looking for. Makes you wonder what other meaning we are inventing out of thin air.
Key points from 128
´I was only three days off in the prediction of my crystallization, which over a period of ten years is quite good, and I consider that prediction accurate´
Only three days off? And how one can verify that? Well, no one can verify that and this is why you claim this prediction to be accurate. Another thing is an earthquake or something visible of that kind but an imaginary cristalization? oh sure go ahead on that.
´If a depression occurs in 1984, if California falls in 1998, if Armageddon occurs in 2006, then I was correct regarding the other information I have been speaking about´
Well, if none of that had happened, does that mean the you were incorrect regarding the information you were speaking about? or the gods had humiliated you once again?
´Actually, most of what I speak about is facts´
Actually, NONE OF WHAT YOU SPEAK ABOUT IS FACTS, IN FACT, ALL OF IT IS UTTER NONESENCE AND A SPASM OF SICK DELUDED MIND.
131. X-ray
Marshall Applewhite, leader of the Heaven’s Gate cult, took 38 other souls (all adults) with him that day in 1997.
134. surelyujest
The words were actually spoken one evening over dinner. On such occasions, scribes took verbatim notes – at least, of HIS words. (Some liberties have clearly been taken with proper names to protect the innocent, and introduce “plausible deniability”.)
This dinner took place not in the “Porcelain Room”, but out on the “Mose-art Deck” under a starry sky.
Immediately after dinner, as I was wont to do, I wrote down my own perceptions in a journal. It is sad to see how absolutely enthralled I was.
Reading this fantastic material now, I ask myself “over the intervening 32 years, has Burton miraculously become MORE sane?”
I can’t answer this with certainty, but we do see in many other examples (including that of Applewhite) the trajectory of self-appointed “leaders” crystallized in their own fantasies.
135. surelyujest
Yes. “Pick a number. Any number!” The trick will still work. That’s one of the few things I have verified.
136. surelyujest
I would agree with your logic.
Did you ever notice that you can’t really verify a negative?
e.g. I have verified that C-influence does not exist.
re. 137 Tim Campion`s “ 136. surelyujest
I would agree with your logic.“
I too would have agreed with this logic up until my discovery of the Law of Attraction teachings in the spring of 1998. As I did with the 4th Way material from 1983 til 1998 I went whole hog into it. I had previously decided that this would be my plan, going whole hog I mean. So the embarrassment felt afterwards is a normal reaction unless it becomes habitual and becomes more or less permanent. So my point of view is that of the law of attraction now for 13 years and there is no sign of progressing to anything else. It provides me with answers to my questions which appear logical to me. For others it appears to not answer their questions but then I have no way of knowing whether or not they have really looked into it in a serious way or have simply gone with preconceived ideas.
Anyhow your appearance here, Tim, at this time and the memories which it provokes are a source of joy for me. Considering how little we interacted all those many years ago goes to show that I always considered you to be a man of class and a joyous person. The two are obviously related. Cheers!
139. Renald
Your comments make me smile, but I doubt we met. I was gone from the FOF by 1987. Perhaps my reputation has benefited from your confusing me with another?
Lots of stuff flying about on the subject of verifying C-influence and, whoever posted it, talking about dopamine. Let me tell you something – too much dopamine = mania or mystical states – too little dopamine = Parkinson’s Disease. It is the ‘Self’ the ‘Master’ or ‘Real I’ that awakens to the Meaning of Life, that is, receiving the Teachings of the Present. The point is Burton is Unreal, in False Personality, if you will, and thinks that Essence (which Gurdjieff said was the Root of Work on Oneself) is to do with building a Bad Taste Ark of what is now Apollo…..Nigel.
A certain interpretive difference
Awaits the twice-born.
Whitman’s heaven and hell
Give way to the first’s glory.
Litter picking/placing and decoding
Delights self and humanity.
From former form absorbed, transposed
And Earth’s imperfection more than satisfies.
Nothing goes away;
Neither poverty, hardship nor necessity.
All hangs ,deliberately placed
By angels beyond the screen.
The sun’s crime overcome,
He returns from sweeping the universe
To its limit in crashing waves,
That tell of the new Eternity.
(nhp) 1993
132. X-Ray
“and people like you Josine, are SUPPORTING this criminals with your new age bullshit mentality.”
Take it easy, X-Ray. You don’t want to die of a heart attack from too much rage against anyone who disagrees with you. You have a long way to go to put Burton in jail, so please pace yourself.
Namaste
(which also sometimes translates as “I acknowledge the spirit in you”)
oh, no worries Josine, I will go as long as it takes to make that happen…
Yes, Tim, I figured that out watching the third one.
I confused this bold fucker with Jim Jones from People´s Templs who have led to suicide 900 members of his cult.
Both are pretty cripy creatures.. well, not more creapy then burton, really..
And Josine..
Your lack of urgency is equal to your lack of understanding.
128. Tim, it’s amazing we listened to that kind of stuff with rapt attention. (What a bunch of hog wash about RKK. He had $$. Of course, he was also lovable, but would RB have liked him so much if he didn’t have the position that he did?)
Re. 140 – Tim Campion. Oh well Tim no harm done except except regarding the state of my memory.
As you might remember we did not use surnames much and obviously it was another Tim.
I would say that you attracted that comment for some reason or other beyond my ability to fathom. I am willing to bet that there might be a lot of truth in my mistake and you deserved to be complimented. Correct me if I am wrong. Cheers!!
Is it true that Robert Burton’s prediction of some major disaster that would upset the world once led some Students to believe that they wouldn’t need to pay the debts they were incurring? He never actually said, “Don’t worry, there won’t be any institutions left to pay back.” did he?
Well, at least he never directed Students to kill themselves…
145. Shirley
Yes, it did seem that certain wealthy individuals had an E-Z Pass to the Inner Circle.
146. Renald
I’m keeping that compliment, thank you very much! Cheers.
147. Golden Veil
On occasion Robert joked about “going out with credit cards full.” I don’t recall which imagined catastrophe that was in reference to: the Depression, the Fall of California, Armageddon, or sloughing off his mortal coil.
“In particular, if he [Robert Earl Burton] knows what he is doing and we don’t, we have no basis for judging or doubting him. Instead, we simply have to trust him, as a child trusts his parents, or dog trusts its master. If he asks us to do things which seem to have no connection to awakening–or even to be ‘wrong’–we have no choice but to do them anyway.” Girard Haven, Creating a Soul, page 576
An interesting early history of The Fellowship of Friends here:
http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/History
“In particular, if he [Robert Earl Burton] knows what he is doing and we don’t, we have no basis for judging or doubting him. Instead, we simply have to trust him, as a child trusts his parents, or dog trusts its master. If he asks us to do things which seem to have no connection to awakening–or even to be ‘wrong’–we have no choice but to do them anyway.” Girard Haven, Creating a Soul, page 576
Thank you, Herr Goebbels.
“In particular, if he…” I’d say that’s a big “if,” and one that many of us should have stopped to think about first.
Woof woof!
149. Golden Veil
The “his story” you cite is a rich source. (In reality, the narrative has always been, first and foremost, about him.) The “In their own words” page ( http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/in-their-own-words?responseToken=085425b5235a334cfebc15ee8a5ac3e7f ) reveals the delusional shroud we lived under.
150. surelyujest
Exactly! (There are 576 pages of this stuff???)
147 Golden Veil
It is much worse than that. Those stupid zombies thought they now can buy anything they want since there will be noone to pay it back to. Cars, forniture, you name it..
Well, we know what have happened next..
“People flatter themselves in thinking they are inspired from above.”
Robert E. Burton, referring to a picture of a man in Poldi Pezzoli Museum, receiving divine inspiration.
151 Tim
Jeez.. it is imposible to read thru this shit anymore..
And the bolt of lightning and a smoke happens only when two big dicks entering your ass at the same time.
“People flatter themselves in thinking they are inspired
from above.”
Robert E. Burton, at the Poldi Pezzoli Museum in Milan,
referring to a painting of a man receiving divine inspiration.
http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/in-their-own-words?responseToken=085425b5235a334cfebc15ee8a5ac3e7f
by the way, when you look at his eyes on that smoke vanished picture, KNOW that what you see is not an any signs of conciesnous but an opiod look, moslt likely Dorvon but could be others. the guy is druged out of his mind and sells it as a conscies being.. fuck the spelling..
155. Golden Veil
Oops. The left brain knoweth not what the right brain sayeth.
130. 131. 132. 136. 143. 144. 152. 154. 156…
X-ray!!! Careful. You’re going to EXPLODE!
‘Student: As a man number six, do you find that you are teaching less?
Teacher [Robert Earl Burton (REB)]: No. I am far from having reached my prime. In addition to working for our School in the present, much of my work is to prepare for civilizations to come. . .
What they [civilizations to come] will then understand is what men are like when they have lost their minds and are expunged by higher forces. [Speaking about the predicted 2006 end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it that did not happen.]’
From: Robert Burton’s 1980’s thoughts on Armageddon
When falls on a man the displeasure of the gods,
first from his mind they banish understanding,
so that he may not know wherein he errs.
The oration Against Leocrates, delivered 330 BC
Lycurgus of Athens, 396–323 BC
Those Lycurgus words are quite apropos to REB and cult mentality.
[Funny how he did not predict 11Sept2001 nor the Wikileaks data dump that is changing the world.]
Or, as Shakespeare said, ‘Madness in great ones must not unwatched go.’
Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1
‘The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.[
Gloria Steinem
From Post 128, Fragments of a lost mind
“I was only three days off in the prediction of my crystallization, which over a period of ten years is quite good, and I consider that prediction accurate. If a depression occurs in 1984, if California falls in 1998, if Armageddon occurs in 2006, then I was correct regarding the other information I have been speaking about.”
Since neither the depression, nor fall of California or Armageddon occured, then it would seem reasonable to assume that you were incorrect regarding the other information you have been speaking about.
Bob?
Another quote from that same fof.wikispace…..
Feb 02, 2003
“One reason there are not more schools is that there are not more teachers who care about their students—and there is nothing I care for more than my students.”
All Burton cares abour is himself…..Nigel.
158. associated press
It seems The Sheik was our Julian Assange.
And yet another one…
“The Academy Of European Arts & Culture was founded in 1991 by Mervyn Brady and has schools in the United Kingdom, the United States and in Mexico. Although it has roots in the recognized system of philosophy known as The Fourth Way, it has evolved over the years into a school of Mysticism and Love.”
Sound familiar?
Anyone who has been in the Fellowship of Friends and has left deserves some respect. Save your disdain for the gay old geezer himself and his long time supporters/look-the-other-wayers/excuse making flying monkeys.
162. Golden Veil
Wankers emulate wankers.
re. 159 Leonhardon. (and greetings by the way)
“Since neither the depression, nor fall of California or Armageddon occured, then it would seem reasonable to assume that you were incorrect regarding the other information you have been speaking about.
Bob?“
Like there was some doubt? One way to measure that is to go back in time and see if you maxed out your credit cards or half maxed them or not charged anything at all. Did you sell your possessions and move to Oregon House as instructed by your beloved teacher just before the due dates? Did you stock up on survival gear and survival supplies?
On the same bent I could ask myself “ Did I attend my son`s funeral in Canada while I was in Apollo? My father`s?“
Did I continue contact with family and friends during the ten or so years I was at Apollo?
There, that brings my cockiness level down a notch or two.
I may not have fallen for all of the bullshit but I certainly went along with a bucket or two of it.
I realize that there are thousands for whom none of the above applies. Thank your lucky stars or whatever you believe in that you were not put to the test. Also it is good to be grateful that you may not have to try to undo a big chunk of your past misguided delusional behavior. The same applies if you happen to not have ever joined a cult such as the Fellatioship of Fiends, and like someone above said, fuck the spelling.
Cheers!
157 Tim
Well, I am exploding because I UNDERSTAND the depth of criminality of fellowship of friends and his leader burton.
In Burton’s description of his so called crystallization, he says he stood facing Mount Apollo, with his back to California. How can you have your back to California in the middle of California? What a dunce.
I was a Student of the Fellatioship of Friends, and I once visited Renaissance. Dorian took me in to Apollo to meet Robert E. Burton. Dorian pointed to a group of futons on the floor and said, “That’s where “the boys” sleep. At that time, the most notable thing to me about Robert E. Burton was the huge amount of white that showed under his irises. He looked strange. Maybe he was under a lot of stress, even with his young male harem. It was the summer of 1985. I liked the 15th C. Italian cassone panel painting. I think it was by Jacopo del Sellaio. It was sold, I think, to pay the lawsuit settlement for his underage body, soul and mind f–k of Tr-y Buzb–..
162. Golden Veil
Way back, Bruce and others discussed Mervyn Brady’s “teaching”. (One states Brady was an FOF student for 12 years):
X-ray-of-sunshine.
(130. 131. 132. 136. 143. 144. 152. 154. 156. 166 and counting)
I know who you are… you are one of the reasons on post #86.
Love your show!
We can see your veins from here.
136. Agent 45
“Anyone who has been in the Fellowship of Friends and has left deserves some respect.”
Why? Understanding, pity maybe , even ridicule, but why respect?
Well, you lucky I am not a sicko who is thinking of your ass.
167
Good point. I thought about it as well.
Pathetic idiotic stupid and ridiculous.
It´s like to say that I am standing on the planet Earth with my back to Milky Way.
170. silentburp – your, “Why? Understanding, pity maybe, even ridicule, but why respect?” re: 136’s comment. I think 136’s comment was meant to say, That any one who had been in the FF, and who has subsequently left, deserves some respect.
Meaning, it was so hard for some, or most of us, to *finally* leave the FF, that we ex-FFrs deserve some respect. (As for those who are still in the FF, do we extend to them our understanding, pity maybe, even ridicule? That is a good question.) Unless I’ve misunderstood you (170).
In that vein, 165. Renald saying,
“On the same bent I could ask myself “ Did I attend my son`s funeral in Canada while I was in Apollo? My father`s?
Did I continue contact with family and friends during the ten or so years I was at Apollo?”
Who amongst us didn’t turn our backs, to some degree, to people in our lives who didn’t deserve to be spurned or ignored in times of need or love? All of that insulation for so many years from family, friends, co-workers: some of us experienced it more intensely than others. It is ironic that the more compliant one was with RB’s and the FF’s desire for its members to cut oneself off from “life,” that the more one fell under the iron grip of it all. And probably, the harder it might have been to leave. You physically leave, you stop the payments, but then there is the long process of cleansing your mind and emotions.
re. 170 Silenburp. Something tells me that I may be just wasting my time commenting on this but here goes anyways.
““Anyone who has been in the Fellowship of Friends and has left deserves some respect.”
Why? Understanding, pity maybe , even ridicule, but why respect?“
Technically your comment (question) is correct. However by placing the word some in front of the word respect it acts as a modifier, a diminutive of sorts. So where respect would mean held in esteem or high esteem, the way it is used here clearly is different (maybe not so clearly to all). Maybe it is an Americanism. Anyhow I myself did get the gist of it when I first read it and it did not strike my lunar funnybone.
Making big changes in one`s life is a challenge, usually, maybe not so much when something like winning the lottery is involved, but normally speaking. I admire those who are courageous enough to go for it, so maybe the better word could have been “ deserves some admiration“. Yet I am not sure. What do you think of this?
Cheers!
oh and btw shithead 170, this is not a show, this is very very serious, it is about peoples lives, but obviosly you are unable to grasp that in which case I would strongly suggest you go fuck yourself.
166. X-ray
I apologize if my comment was disrespectful. Sometimes in a forum such as this, where anonymity is encouraged, it’s difficult to find just the right tone.
167. surelyujest – July 13, 2011
‘In Burton’s description of his so called crystallization, he says he stood facing Mount Apollo, with his back to California. How can you have your back to California in the middle of California? What a dunce.’
What was meant in that statement was likely: When you are standing in the more populated side of FoF property in Oregon House, i.e.: where the various buildings and paved roads are, and you are facing Mount Apollo (also known by several other names, such as, to begin with: Dixon Hill; then later Mount Carmel, Mount Renaissance, etc. – which is the highest elevation on the FoF property ~2300 feet? above sea level), you would be facing northeasterly, mostly, and, therefore, the part of California that would fall into the Pacific Ocean in 1998 (get real on that one) would be behind you, to the southwest – towards Marysville/Yuba City. Get the picture? Prediction was that Oregon House was going to be ocean front property; as I can remember.
In geological time scale and perspective, there is proof that ocean once existed as far inland as near Auburn, California, is now, and elsewhere, but not as though the ocean water was at that elevation. No, the Sierra Nevadas have been rising for possibly eons (some estimate: began to rise about 80 million years ago); certainly for as long as man has been around on the planet (that we know about) in a linear time sense. The Pacific plate is passing under the North America plate and causing uplift, as well as volcanism. The central valley, by core samples taken from sedimentary water body areas, was at bottom of salt water several times in long geological time scale scheme. But, California, in a large way, falling into Pacific Ocean any time soon; I don’t think so. Certainly not the way Robert Earl Burton was taking about it.
Does part of California fall into Pacific Ocean? You bet it does. In modern times, too. There is a constant erosion and deposition going on. Sea cliffs in San Diego County are falling away – much to the chagrin of the homeowners on those promontories. Landslides frequently fall and close California Pacific Coast Highway which runs as close to the water as you can get in many areas. In Tijuana, Mexico, Playas de Tijuana, as I remember, several streets and blocks of houses have eroded away, usually destroyed by severe storms.
But, ocean front property in Oregon House, where the sea would be at the elevation of just below Collins Lake in Yuba County. This applies: ‘What a dunce.’ Too much sea influence going on there.
173. Shirley & 174. Renald
I understand your point of view… and still: Why?
Being in the FoF is not like being at Auschwitz. We didn’t escape becoming war heroes.
We willingly joined an idiotic cult; we’ve chosen to leave families, friends, wealth and health behind, believing in absurdities and, in ‘some’ cases, being sucked by a sick old man… and then we get out and we pat ourselves in the back?
Getting out is more like going back to normality, back to square one or returning to ordinary life… Bravo!
176. Tim Campion
Wow! Was that disrespectful?
Yeah! You ain’t got the touch; X-ray-charles has found the right tone.
Fofblogmoderator.
Out of curiosity, what is this elusive ‘moderation’ based upon?
Tim,
It is my appologies for not making it clear.
I have nothing against you, in fact I like what you have to say.
My anger was towards the shithead silenfart, not at you.
178 silenfart
this moderation based on something you will never understand..
sorry moderator for answering for you..
just don´t have the patience for this asshole..
180. X-ray
That’s the type of disrespect I have admiration for.
178. silentburp – thanks for clarifying that I misunderstood that you misunderstood. I agree with your post, where you distinguished between having been forcibly captured and put into a concentration camp versus willingly joining a group like the FF. However, I wouldn’t make light of what it meant/ means to leave the FF. The FF was/is all-encompassing in one’s life – it wasn’t like a yoga class where the teacher admonished you if you stopped taking his/her classes. It permeated almost every corner of your life, internally and externally. Leaving that, especially on your own without the benefit of (1) a mass exodus (such as in 2007-08, from what I hear) and (2) helpful blogs and related social networking sites, can be very difficult. It’s less difficult for some people than others – maybe the FF, RB and the mind control grip was simply less pervasive in certain individual’s lives.
I’m not sure “some respect” would have to equate to a congratulatory pat on the back. Why “some respect”? Why not? In many cases, to physically and financially leave the FF was an accomplishment. I’ve known people who wanted to leave the FF, and it took them over 2 years to finally stop their teaching payment. I don’t think that’s something to put on the level of, as I said, deciding you like your yoga teacher/class and not returning.
In addition, it takes many ex-members months, if not years, to undo some of the mind control elements, as well as residual emotions (anger at RB and FF hierarchy; regret and remorse at having turned one’s back on family and friends; realizing you’re flat broke and past your prime in terms of the workforce; and so on. BTW, I’m not suggesting that some of those “residual emotions” should disappear. All of that FF pressure to not express negative emotions seems to have translated into a lot of suppression and repression.)
#178- Mr Burp-
Read the top of the page (the “rules”). What i do is I just read the entries and if somebody gets seems to be working outside the bounds of the our established blog etiquette I give them (usually in private) a suggestion to stay in bounds. I have never acted as a moderator like you would see in a debate. That ain’t my thing.
182. Shirley
As you suggest, the teacher and his proxies could bring significant force to bear on confused students who might be considering a departure from the “school”.
During the thirteen years I was a member, prospective students were offered a fairly benign picture of what it meant to be a participant in the FOF (not too different from attending that yoga class.)
“Membership is on a month-to-month basis. If you feel you are no longer receiving value for your money, you can leave at any time.”
However, once in, the narrative gradually shifted. We were pressured to value the school (“our real family”), and work against “feminine dominance” (“life friends and family” who sought to draw us away.)
Inevitably, fees (“donations”) escalated, with frequent demands for additional “special donations”.
Students were threatened with penalties, including severe re-entry fees, should they leave and later choose to return.
And of course, we were perpetually reminded those who “lose the school” face the specter of eternal damnation.
I don’t know how long these manipulations persisted, but in my day, they were common practices.
183. fofblogmoderator
“Mr Burp” – now THAT’S respectful! (Unless of course, it’s Ms. Burb, in which case an apology may be in order.)
Maybe some of us have been fooled by diversionary tactics.
The exposition of our personal experiences may be too difficult for some others to hear (read). Maybe this comes too close to the bone as they say.
Cheers!
From…..”Freedom of Mind” website…..
There is a fair amount of information on the web about this group, so I won’t go into exhaustive detail. It was founded by Robert Burton in 1970 in No. California. Early on, the group purchased a large amount of property outside Chico, Ca. It was founded as a “4th Way School” along the lines of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky’s organizations. The leader’s lifestyle can be read about in a lawsuit that has been published on the web, along with several newspaper articles detailing his activities. The group maintains a central facility on the California property, with a well-regarded winery and art museum. The leader is charismatic, controlling, largely inaccessible and prone to making dire prophecies that never come to pass. Imitation of the leader permeates the organization, held in place by fear-based peer pressure and religious zealotry. Criticism of the leader and the organization is strictly forbidden. Burton claims his spiritual development is second only to Christ’s — !! that he is “enlightened,” “conscious,” “an angel in a man’s body,” and so on.
Here is a load of ‘la-la-la’ from Girard Haven on the “Living Presence” website…..
The struggle to be present is fundamentally the same at all times and in all places, and we must grateful for, and make use of, the various opportunities for work which are provided by different circumstances. The particular opportunity which is provided by using a computer is to practice divided attention, and one of the most effective ways to do this is to introduce voluntary suffering.
This involves making yourself a little uncomfortable, for instance, sitting a little too close to the computer or a little farther away from it, or in a slightly uncomfortable position, or dressing a little too warmly, or having your belt a little too tight. The idea is to create just enough of an irritant to be give oneself something to be aware of in addition to the computer, but not so much as to cause harm or even to interfere with one’s work.
One can also use impressions, such as actually listening to music (music one does not like can introduce a little voluntary suffering as well) or making the environment more beautiful. And a pop-up program can be used to periodically interrupt identification and bring one back to the present. In short, there is no easy answer. As Rodney Collin wrote, “Work is work, and from a larger point of view it is merely a question of who will try to do what is required. The delicacy of the excuse is not taken into account.”
187. Nigel
Wow, Nigel. That reads like an excerpt from “The Automaton’s Guide to the Awakening Process” (AGAP).
Google-ing ‘Walt Whitman foo foo’ I came across this “A Pilgrim Dissident” website and this quote…..
As I sat in Pete’s having lunch today, I thought of some lines from Walt Whitman:
Washes and razors for foofoos …. for me freckles and a bristling beard
….The scent of these arm-pits is aroma finer than prayer.
I like sitting at the counter at Pete’s as long as no one sits down next to me. I hate the feeling of someone at my elbow. Today, not only did someone sit down on the stool next to me, but he smelled like he’d been sleeping with the bums down under the Metro underpass at Rhode Island Avenue. The stink was breath-stopping.
At first scent, I glanced at him, and he looked normal enough. He was dressed in a UPS uniform, but his smell was beefy body odor, unadulterated with any hint of soap.
Walt Whitman, I love you, but I am a foofoo.
For lunch, I had the grilled chicken breast with Tahini ginger sauce, soba noodles, and honey-roasted walnut salad. It was quite delicious, and as I ate, I finished reading the copy of Leaves of Grass I’ve been reading.
About three weeks ago, while browsing in the Trover book store on Pennsylvania Ave. S.E., behind the Capitol, I picked up a 150th Anniversary Edition of the first edition of Leaves of Grass. Harold Bloom wrote a lengthy introduction to the volume, which I skipped.
Originally, I intended to read the Bloom piece. Bloom is no Frederick Jameson, and his criticism is intelligible by laypersons such as myself, but what I discovered about myself as I read a few pages was that I really have no tolerance whatsoever for non-biographical literary criticism, these days.
I’d rather have a good fuck than read one page about Gnostic adumbrations in Whitman’s poetry, as discerned by Harold Bloom. And I also state, for the record, that the word “trope” is just as annoyingly pretentious when written by Harold Bloom as when written by Jacques Derrida.
So fuck Harold Bloom, and fuck literary criticism. You want my personal literary-critical theory? Here’s my theory: poetry that makes me happy is good poetry.
Walt Whitman makes me happier than any other poet I’ve ever read. He has made me happy for many, many years, now.
Ah, so I am of the Romantic Reader Response school of literary criticism, you say. The reader’s feelings about the poetry are all that matters. Sure. Whatever.
Walt Whitman makes me happy. I may not sound happy, right now. But when I read his poetry, I feel like he is communicating directly to me, over the span of the century that lies between us. In some cases, he does address himself directly to me.
In one of my favorite passages, he writes:
Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged,
Missing me one place, search another,
I stop somewhere waiting for you.
I don’t know why, but each time I read that last line my heart thumps a little harder. I think to myself, as he believed, no one ever really dies. Every atom of us remains. Walt Whitman is alive and speaking to me this day, as I sit at a lunch counter snuffing the human stench of the stranger beside me.
Walt says it’s wonderful. That smell of stale sweat is wonderful. All is wonderful. Think a moment on how once we were not, but are now. Think about the day you were born and how you passed from infancy to childhood to adulthood. Isn’t that wonderful to think of? Whitman writes,
And that I can think such thoughts as these is just as wonderful,
And that I can remind you, and you think them and know them to be true is just as wonderful…
Come I should like to hear you tell me what there is in yourself that is not just as wonderful…
Walt Whitman makes me extremely happy. He is a feel good poet. I admit, I am not a likely Whitman devotee. I am not a kindly advocate for the human race. I have not sounded a barbaric yawp since I was an infant, and even in my infancy my mother tells me I was an extraordinarily quiet child.
Yet for all my personal quirks and failings, Walt Whitman loves me nonetheless, and I find that love every bit as humbling as the love my wife and child have for me, or the love Jesus Christ has for me. Look at me: I sit here almost crying, as I type this. I am an emotional person, and perhaps this is why I feel Whitman’s poetry so greatly.
When I dwell on my mortality, as I often do, Whitman both sympathizes and warns me that death is coming, nevertheless. In one place, he writes a few lines that really could have been written to me personally:
To think how eager we are in building our houses,
To think others shall be just as eager .. and we quite indifferent.
I see one building the house that will serve him a few years …. or seventy or eighty years at most…
Slow-moving and black lines creep over the whole earth….they never cease….they are the burial lines ….
He that was President is buried, and he that is now President shall surely be buried.
In another place following these lines, Whitman offers comfort:
I swear I see now that every thing has an eternal soul!
The trees have, rooted in the ground….the weeds of the sea have….the animals.
I swear I think there is nothing but immortality!
Whitman provides us comfort in our connection with others; yet not just connection with other people but all things; he comforts us with the sameness of human experience. Perhaps some readers find his long chronicles of people doing things, or having things done to them, to be tedious (“The lunatic is at last carried to the asylum a confirmed case, / He will never sleep any more as he did in the cot in his mother’s bedroom”), yet the point of these pages and pages of overly simplistic passages (“The machinist rolls up his sleeves….”) is to connect the human experience and show that, despite our sense of ourselves living out our own private drama, the people around us, too, are going through much the same kinds of things.
Not only that, but to use a favorite word of Whitman’s, decillions of years ago humans were experiencing the same things. And these people are with us today, as well, as is Walt Whitman. There is a terrible, beautiful unity between the living and dead.
The living sleep for their time …. the dead sleep for their time,
The old husband sleeps by his wife and the young husband sleeps by his wife.
This connection between life and death and heterosexual union is no coincident of poetic structure. Modern critics have probably made too much of Whitman’s homoerotic passages. The heterosexual Whitman speaks loudest, and the straight Whitman was probably more shocking in his day than the gay Whitman who writes passages such as “The men sleep lovingly side by side in [their bed].” In one respect I agree with Harold Bloom: Whitman is “pan-erotic,” a category beyond straight and gay or even bi-sexual, since it includes an eroto-fixation on the natural world.
Yet I admit to a fascination with Whitman’s “straight” eroticism. A passage meant to shock his contemporaries is “On women fit for conception I start bigger and nimbler babes, / This day I am jetting the stuff of far more arrogant Republics.” It is surprising the number of times Whitman mentions or alludes to semen in his poetry.
Whitman does a lot of jetting of “stuff”, in his poetry, as if in counteraction to his meditations on death and immortality. Bloom goes so far as to compare Whitman to the Egyptian god Osiris, who masturbated the world into existence. So Whitman masturbated American literature as we know it into existence. Even in his prose introduction to his book of poems, Whitman spoke of how “the sinewy races of bards” are begotten by “the fatherstuff” of sailors, travellers, chemists, astronomers, etc., apparently without a female partner. This is a really startling reversal of the Immaculate Conception, with men as virgin fathers.
“Copulation is no more rank to me than death is,” Whitman says, thus making the oddest, but perhaps most profound statement by a poet of any era. I thought about that line a long time, after reading it. I’ve read Whitman in many different years of my life. I read him sitting in a snowy wood while my Dad thought I was deer hunting. I’ve read him in my teenage bedroom, in a house now owned by others, having lived there not even close to the seventy years Whitman suggests as a lifespan. I’ve read him on the train. I’ve read him in a car. I’ve read him sitting at a lunch counter in a noisy diner.
Always, I find new passages that previously I passed over with not a thought. That passage really stuck out, this time: “Copulation is no more rank to me than death is.” What does he mean?
I don’t know. Maybe it’s the key to everything, or nothing. I’ve tried to rationalize it, but somehow to rationalize only succeeds in minimizing its value. I feel that I know what the line means in some unconscious way, but if I try to explain it, it’s meaning evaporates. It sits there on the counter, between me and the stinking guy beside me, defying rational meaning.
Oh, I am sure someone has explained it, maybe even Harold Bloom explains it in the preface I did not finish reading; just as I am sure that a botany textbook breaks down the beauty of a flower into its component parts and explains it all very scientifically. I shrug at such explanations. Scientific explanations mean less to me than a fart.
I am content just to let it be. I don’t need to know what it means. Whitman’s poetry “convulses me like the climax of my love-grip.” That is all I ask from a poet.
Google-ing “G I Gurdjieff – Lying”…..
Organic Portals – Soulless humans
By Bernhard Guenther
“A considerable percentage of the people we meet on the street are people who are empty inside, that is, they are actually already dead. It is fortunate for us that we do not see and do not know it. If we knew what a number of people are actually dead and what a number of these dead people govern our lives, we should go mad with horror.”
– G.I. Gurdjieff
These are interesting times. On one hand there are changes happening on a global scale that can’t really be ignored much longer. On the other hand the majority of the population seem to live their lives as if everything is just as it always is and always will be, locked in a tunnel vision of personal and material interest.
As long as we keep lying to ourselves based on conditioning, wishful thinking, suppression or denial and believe the lies “out there”, mistaking them for truth, nothing will change. This goes also beyond having a “positive” attitude, where hope can be merely a trap and lie to the self. Believing in lies that are “positive” in appearance (regardless how well-meaning the intent or good-hearted the person) is actually being negative and blocks one’s awareness and spiritual evolution. Being positive can mean acknowledging something negative because it is the truth, seeing it for what it is. If you believe a lie, even if it seems positive and makes you “feel good”, you give away your free will and that has spiritual implications. In these times of transition it becomes imperative to do seek truth and strive towards objectivity so we don’t take the “wrong” turn into entropy.
184 Tim
It´s the basis for the fellowship brainwashing and it´s going on today just like 20 years ago.
184 Tim – Your sentence, “However, once in, the narrative gradually shifted. We were pressured to value the school…” hit the nail on the head as to why it wasn’t easy, at all, to come and go.
In a way, you were just as pressured to stay as you were made to feel that there was nothing to leave for. For ex., if you leave your yoga teacher, chances are, you’ll find another good one nearby. But not the FF: it was “the School”. Reminds me of meeting with someone who was still in the FF, a few years ago. When she referred to the FF as “the School,” she said “school” with that special, sacred, enshrined tone of voice that made me remember how I used to view the FF: nothing else compared. Everything else was “just a group.”
The exorbitant fines: Yes, when I was ready to stop writing out my teaching payment checks, I was reminded by well-intentioned members (who were, themselves, trying to leave the FF) that if I rejoined, I’d have to pay a large fine. “Oh, and don’t forget there’s a stigma attached to that. Members will never view you with the same respect.”
It’s a study in extreme peer pressure in a closed society that is governed by an untouchable priest at the apex.
183 fof moderator – I was under that impression, too, that you’re behind the scenes reviewing incoming posts before they get released onto the blog, with the occasional comment. Maybe some people assumed the role was that of an active guide, like the moderators of forums-discussions on the other site.
Yes Shirley- Part of what I do is reviewing posts that have been thrown into the moderation bin because of being a new
unregistered email address or for various other reasons.
Another purpose I serve is to start fresh blog pages like the one you’re about to click to. I took over responsibility for keeping the blog open in August 2008 starting on page 44.
We’re now on page 105.
Enjoy!
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